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After Rick Perry's Stem Cell Treatment, Misplaced Enthusiasm?
oxide7 writes "Presidential candidate Rick Perry underwent a controversial stem-cell treatment this past month, prompting some doctors to fear the high-profile event would send the wrong signal to desperate patients. 'As a highly influential person of power, Perry's actions have the unfortunate potential to push desperate patients into the clinics of quacks,' Dr. George Q. Daley said."
A candidate who has prayer rallies as part of his campaign is into quackery? Gee, who possibly could have seen this coming.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Well, he isn't being too much of a hypocrite. Rick Perry earlier said he was against embryonic stem cell research http://www.chron.com/news/article/Perry-speaks-out-against-abortion-stem-cell-1498123.php So instead he's using his own stem cells in a poorly studied and as yet not very well understood process. He could have been a real hypocrite and done something with embryonic stem cells. But nope, he's pushed for the screwing over of science and medicine and he's going to stick with it. Of course, there's the secondary problem that even reliable, well-studied adult stem cell research is based to a large extent on information we got from studying embryonic stem cells. So even if this does work he will be benefiting from the research he despises. So I guess there is a small bit of hypocrisy but it isn't nearly as bad as it could have been.
Yes, Rick Perry is against embryonic stem cell research. Yes, this treatment did NOT use embryonic stem cells.
Please do not say that Republicans or conservatives are against stem cell research. Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research. Embryonic stem cell research is still government funded provided that it uses old stem cell lines or adult derived stem cells.
With that said, let's leave the straw-men in the field.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Don't use Stem Cells. Mr. Perry - please explain yourself.
Your Friends,
~The Tea Party
Sigh. Looks like my comment didn't make it in time to educate this ignorant AC. Here it is again:
Yes, Rick Perry is against embryonic stem cell research. Yes, this treatment did NOT use embryonic stem cells.
Please do not say that Republicans or conservatives are against stem cell research. Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research. Embryonic stem cell research is still government funded provided that it uses old stem cell lines or adult derived stem cells.
With that said, let's leave the straw-men in the field.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Yes, if you're going to be The Decider, your decisions will be under a lot of scrutiny. If you've fallen prey to false claims in the medical field, you're likely to be manipulated by political quacks too.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
That's just focusing on the very tail end of the research process.
You still need to ask whether or not any of this could have happened at all without research he doesn't approve of over religious grounds that aren't even that well founded in doctrine to begin with. (thus the problem of embedding religious doctrine in public policy)
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That's true. I made a similar post further down the page. However, republican opposition to embryonic stem cells is still absurd. It comes to the assumption or belief or whatever you want to call it that something without a brain is somehow human. It's just another tally in the table of republicans don't understand or believe science and the act on that
As we all know, life begins at ejaculation.
That's why masturbation is wrong.
If you masturbate, you've committed lust in your heart and spilled an innocent life on the ground.
Embryonic stem cells do actually work - in fact, they are known to produce full blown human beings, under the right conditions.
Generalism is a common human sin. But there is a large group of extremist conservative republicans that have zero science education that think all stem cell research is evil.
Note I say this as a Catholic that believes in Evolution and also feels annoyed every time atheists label every religious person in the planet as cavemen worshiping the flame. I know how it is to be in the wrong end of these generalizations.
Science has proven there are hundreds of life seeds in a single batch of sperm. If you masturbate you didn't spill an innocent life, you committed genocide!!! :P
Men are genocidal monsters (even if there is a pregnancy there will never* be a 1:1 sperm to baby ratio) and women are serial killers.
*standard /. disclaimers for pedants who don't understand common usage
Remember - Jesus died for our sins, if we don't sin his death will have been for nothing.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Stem cells are people.
Corporations are people.
Therefore, by transitivity, stem cells are corporations.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Mussolini
The argument here can't be boiled down to "This is or is not a person." The real argument is whether it is in your personal values to consider a fetus at whichever point to be close enough to be considered worth saving. The arguments over whether it is a woman's right to choose, whether the process is humane, etc. are all secondary to that main point. And the answer here is that every person's response is somewhat unique. The difficulty arises when this spectrum of personal values is polarized to a single yes or no question: should abortions be allowed to happen? Almost everyone's (real) answer, is "Yes, but...". Some are "Yes, but only in extreme cases." or "Yes, but only very early." or "Yes, but only with after a serious discussion with a therapist and a doctor." Even those who support abortion at points considered to be very late in the usual arguments (third trimester, for example) would probably say that aborting two weeks before the expected due date would be wrong, or at least a poor choice. So rather than saying that anyone who is against abortion is a "republican who [doesn't] understand or believe in science," understand that there is really no right answer to this question. Human gestation is not a simple process, but it is definitely connected to our personal beliefs and values about life and humanity. Disregarding that connection will only alienate you.
I can't live with this guilt anymore.... I must end my life... I'll commit suicide by watching Fox News until my brain gets flooded with clots.
My personal problem with embryonic stem cells is we can not have any kind of profit in using the UnBorn. (not create a market for UnBorn corpses)
Now my views on Abortion come from being a Caucasian Male with a Conservative background and are as follows
1 It is the responsibility of the Father to A support his children B keep his [redacted} fly shut PERIOD
2 Abortion should be the result of a doctor having to choose between the mother and the child (as in both will die RIGHT NOW) not any kind of "convenience"
3 We need to fund research into artificial "Creche" tech to allow for premies to be supported (and in cases where a C-Section has to be done to save the mother)
4 Penalties for raping an adult needs to be severe (Life No Parole or Death) and Penalties for raping minors needs to be epically severe (when LNP is used due to no Death in a state then when he gets shived in prison it should count FOR the shiver at his next parole hearing)
5 any org that is anti-abortion should also fund adoption centers (you have to do something with the kids)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Ok. How many children from orphanages in Africa have you adopted recently?
Or maybe you're selling all your disposable income to them? That would be not as good, but we can overlook it.
It comes to the assumption or belief or whatever you want to call it that something without a brain is somehow human.
I see plenty of humans walking around (or posting on the internet) with no evidence that they have a brain.
So, you see plenty of non-breathing people who cannot independently control their bodies ... in the process of controlling their bodies?
spilled an innocent life on the ground.
Same as dropping a bowl of yogurt.
Have gnu, will travel.
But yes, this treatment DID use Science, which is something that Governor Perry has long opposed.
I don't think that is an exhaustive list of the things which Conservatives are against. You might want to add,
1. Science
2. A Middle Class
3. Black Presidents
4. Immigration
5. Science
6. Climatology
7. Geology
8. Education
9. Women's Rights
10. Environmental Protections
10b. Science
11. Renewable Energy
12. Civil Rights for anyone but Corporations
13. Free and Fair Elections
14. Jobs that pay more than minimum wage
15. Marriage Equality
16. Homosexuality for anyone but themselves, and then only when part of a discreet financial transaction
The list goes on and on. Opposition is a state that conservatives have perfected. These are just some of the highlights.
It should be noted that opposition to the above are not traditional conservative positions. That seems to be a special innovation of those Americans that call themselves "Conservatives".
You are welcome on my lawn.
Religious types have a bunch of stock phrases they turn to whenever the inevitable contradiction pops up. In this case they'd use "God helps those who help themselves" or something similar.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Your personal problem is fictional. These embryos come from in-vitro fertilization, they will be discarded if not used. Do you also appose fertility treatments?
Also #4 proves you to be a terrible person. Our justice system like all humans things is not 100% flawless. This means you are advocating not only crime in prison and murder, but the eventual murder of an innocent person.
Who they vote for seems to indicate that, or at least make it appear very likely.
We've gotten quickly off-topic. Embryonic stem cells do not come from abortion. Ever. Don't confuse the two issues.
... using the same tactic as bush
Like Bush Jr, he is looking to bail after driving his charge into the ground. Now that the federal dollars that propped up the Texas budget have dried up, things are really coming apart. To "balance" the current budget the rainy day fund was used, public workers fired and education gutted. As a result, unemployment is now on the rise (now 8.4% vs national 9.1%).
He's even using the same tactic as bush and trying to get in good with the religious circles to try and get votes.
He is worse than Bush Jr on this, with his connections to dominionists. Shrub focused on appearing religious to get elected, Perry's efforts seems geared to subjugation of government to the authority of radical Christianity.
Actually, I'm surprisingly close to your mind here I would however tweak things just a wee bit... try to follow :-)
Since 80% to 90% of the zygotes created for invitro fertilization are simply disposed of, there is a wonderful source for embryonic stem cells that will never, ever become a human being under any circumstance. No moral dilemma here. Moreover, if you want to take the fear of profit out of the equation, make it voluntary (like an organ donor card) for the parents of the zygote to donate the cells to help others in need (this is exactly like saying, yes my son/daughter is brain dead, you may save lives with his or her organs.) Again, no moral dilemma. With the ability to split the first few division up into individual seed cells, you now have the ability to serve hundreds or thousands of people from a single zygote. There will never be a shortage of stem cells. No need to touch abortions, ever, period... take it off the table.
Agreed, make a baby, support the critter, its not just a good idea, its the law... enforce the heck out of it. Moreover, make such a public stink about being a Dad who won't do his duty that the shear weight of being a pariah makes him do the right thing.
I agree, abortions are an abomination. An equally or even greater abomination, is bringing a crack addicted premature fetus (of non-white) parents into the world, who will never know love, never be adopted, at best get passed around in child welfare system that is woefully inadequate to the need, and ultimately grow up into a drug addicted, angry, violent sociopath who either ends up committing suicide by cop or spending the rest of a short and violent life in our prison system. For starter I would make dead certain every child in the public school system knew and could get contraceptives and basic health care. There are high schools out where 50% of the girls get pregnant before graduating. THAT IS GROTESQUE. Teach kids to abstain, they haven't the physical, mental or emotional maturity to deal with parenthood, but knowing that they're going to have sex anyway, teach them to avoid pregnancy and STD with proper contraception. Also provide counseling, if the child has a relationship with its parents that isn't adversarial or abusive, bring the parents into the conversation, and by all means take the stigma off this conversation. Sex is a fundamental human design, stop making it the focus of shame and embarrassment, and also using it sell products or titillate teenagers into buying banal crap.
We can now save babies under a pound. The technology has gotten pretty good. The energy would be better spent preventing the causes for preemies and sick mothers. Proper education, nutrition, drug rehabilitation, prenatal care and counseling to ensure young mothers to be are creating a great future for their children whether they keep them or not.
Rape is a violent crime. One in three girls in college gets date raped. Date rape drugging is out of control. Our entire economy is based on sexualizing everything and whipping young men into a semi-permanent sexual frenzy. Case in point a televised spring beak bash in Huntington Beach, CA broke into a sexual riot when girls dancing in tiny bathing suits were suddenly attacked by drunken frat boys, stripped naked, assaulted and in some cases raped. The ensuing riot caused millions in damages, and not only traumatized the girls, but ruined the lives of a number of young men who simply got sucked into the mob and were later identified as perpetrators. If you really mean to deal with rape to its logical extreme, you're going to need to define rape, and does that include bands of young men who engage in games where they get girls drunk, slip them ruffies, coerce, bully or bludgeon girls into having sex as some sick game, all the while their Father beaming that's my boy the stud. There are some pretty ugly social dynamics that should be getting addressed in our schools, and its high time parents became part of the solution and not part of the problem.
As
Likewise, trusting someone who claims that injecting stem cells into you can help anything in any way is quite dangerous. At the current time, we know very little about how the damn things actually work. Thanks, largely, to people like Rick Perry. But what did those guys expect, that science would magically continue to progress after all the roadblocks they put in its path? So here we are, with a technique that, had we started studying it 15 years ago when we first started talking about it, may have extended the lives of old people (like many members of Congress,) but Congress shut all that down. And now they're turning to us* with their hands outstretched, expecting salvation. Sorry guys, science doesn't work that way. Even if you put your faith in it.
Of course, from what *I* understand about stem cells, injecting yourself with them all willy-nilly is as likely to lead to cancer as it is to a positive outcome. Or possibly growing an eyeball in the affected area. I bet Rick Perry will come to the taxpayer for some of that awesome government health care that the rest of us can't have, if he's suddenly afflicted with a case of back-eyeballs.
* Well, biologists. I went into computer science so I wouldn't have to deal with squishy biological things.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Indeed. According to the Retardicans, my aunt would have had to die right now (her first pregancy was aborted because my unborn cousin was severely deformed, missing half his brain and most of his skull, and likely to die and go septic in utero which would have resulted in her death along with him).
Without a "one or both" exception - e.g. to save the life of the mother - in place, the Retardicans will never get me to so much as admit they have some good-faith reason to get between a woman and her doctor regarding medical procedures.
Agreed, make a baby, support the critter, its not just a good idea, its the law... enforce the heck out of it. Moreover, make such a public stink about being a Dad who won't do his duty that the shear weight of being a pariah makes him do the right thing.
Unfortunately, then we get into cases like this.
How many men are paying child support right now because they were falsely named on a birth certificate and not given a proper chance to demand a paternity test?
Not to mention that the Tea Party is made up of FISCAL conservatives, including Republicans, Democrats and Independents. Yes, the Tea Party has some social conservatives, but that's not what the party is all about.
Please inform yourselves before jumping to conclusions.
1 It is the responsibility of the Father to A support his children B keep his [redacted} fly shut PERIOD
I think it has been repeatedly proven that a lot of potential father and mothers cannot be expected to act responsibly when it comes to procreation. To not acknowledge this fact would irresponsible in itself.
My problem with the "Conservative Mindset" is that they tend to be against all forms of birth control and instead preach abstinence as a way of preventing unwanted pregnancies. To actually believe that teenagers have full control while experiencing the peak of hormones that they have only a few years experience with is irresponsible. They want to set people up to fail with their short sighted doctrines, and then when the expected mistake happens, they place all the blame on the teenagers without taking any of the blame themselves. I'm not saying that the teenagers are blameless, but if it was possible to neutralize their hormones before they went out on a date, I'm guessing they might have a better chance.
If the Conservatives are incapable of taking responsibly for the end result of the laws they want to impose on others, then why should the victims of their laws be considered responsible for the end result? I would love to see the Conservatives(and only the Conservatives) forced to pay for all child care/education/etc. If they can handle paying for what they wanted, I would respect them a lot more.
That's a pretty good list!
Can I add a couple?
It would be rather pointless - the big benefit of embryonic cells was supposed to be that they could be made via nuclear transfer, and so would be a perfect match to the patient. The idea was rendered obsolete once someone figured out you could induce pluripotence in adult cells, which is easier than screwing around with cloning.
If the law doesn't explicitly allow for cases where the mother's life is in danger, any abortion would still result in an arrest and a trial, whereupon a jury would decide whether or not they believe the doctor is telling the truth that the procedure was still medically necessary. Self-defense or not, that's still months of your life thrown into turmoil, massive legal bills, and an enormous emotional burden on someone who is already in a pretty precarious place.
Your attitude towards things would ruin lives for absolutely no benefit to society.
and another:
Rational thought
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
That's one of the most ridiculous biased articles I've ever read on Fox.
A father is not just a paternity test, its who is in the relationship with the mother. You cannot be there one minute playing daddy, then decide it is not working out an claim there is no need of support cause 'dem brats aint mine'. If you decide to enter a relationship with children, then you are taking on the responsibility of raising those children both now and in the future. Man up for fuck sakes.
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
1 It is the responsibility of the Father to A support his children B keep his [redacted} fly shut PERIOD
And why is it not also the responsibility of the Mother to do the same?
Regardless, what you are saying is that no one should ever have sex unless prepared to have children. That is a bit extreme, especially when you later encourage adoption centers. I'm really not sure how it's more responsible to give a child up for adoption.
2 Abortion should be the result of a doctor having to choose between the mother and the child (as in both will die RIGHT NOW) not any kind of "convenience"
Your use of the word "child" already gives your opinion away. At what point does it stop being a zygote or an embryo and start being a person?
If you said "conception", you have a pretty absurdly low bar for "person".
3 We need to fund research into artificial "Creche" tech to allow for premies to be supported (and in cases where a C-Section has to be done to save the mother)
Still going to be cases where your #2 happens.
4 Penalties for raping an adult needs to be severe (Life No Parole or Death)...
So you're "pro-Life", but you support the Death penalty? Interesting.
I'm also not sure what this has to do with the issue where a girl has been forcefully violated and is now going to be forced to bear the rapists' child for nine months, go through the incredibly painful process of childbirth, then choose to either raise the rapists' spawn as her own or give it up for adoption, and I'm sorry, but that is disgusting.
5 any org that is anti-abortion should also fund adoption centers (you have to do something with the kids)
Given that being anti-abortion already tends towards a higher birth rate, what you're suggesting would lead to a higher population overall, and also relatively fewer potential adopting parents.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Please do not say that Republicans or conservatives are against stem cell research. Conservatives are against the destruction of an embryo for the purposes of scientific research.
Lets accept for the sake of argument that destruction of an embryo is indeed capital-E Evil. In fact lets explicitly equate it to the Evil of slavery. They are still idiots and their crusade is still idiotic.
Fighting to end slavery makes sense. Tacitly accepting slavery itself while battling specifically to prohibit slaves from going to medical school is totally idiotic. Targeting the "best" of a bad situation while ignoring the "evil" itself is dumb.
99.99% of the embryos that are destroyed are thrown in the trash as fertility treatment waste products.
If they believe the destruction of embryos is evil, then they should be trying to outlaw the destruction of embryos. That would primarily affect the legality of fertility treatments.... that it would also effect stem cell research is almost not worth mentioning in comparison.
There are various subjects where I respect the other side as having a reasonable rational position with which I disagree. However these embryonic-stemcell crusaders are blindly fighting a nonsensical battle. It's neither reasonable nor rational.
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