Anonymous Retaliates, Leaks Texas Police Emails

An anonymous reader sends word that hacking group Anonymous has breached servers and accounts belonging to "dozens" of Texas police departments, leaking emails, documents and personal information. They say the attacks are in retaliation for "the arrests of dozens of alleged Anonymous suspects," and were done in solidarity with "the 'Anonymous 16' PayPal LOIC defendants, accused LulzSec member Jake Davis 'Topiary,' protesters arrested during #OpBart actions, Bradley Manning, Stephen Watt, and other hackers and leakers worldwide." Predictably, some of the leaked emails paint an unflattering picture of internal operations at the police departments.

Comments

The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[elrous0]

Not for racism, bigotry, their general unprofessionalism, etc. I mean, that's kind of a given for local-level Texas cops. No, they should be for the epic level of stupidity they showed in actually *writing all that down* and *sending it in emails*.

Anyone *that* stupid probably shouldn't be trusted to operate the fry machine at McDonalds, much less be in charge of investigating crimes.

I've had some pretty dumb friends over the years who ended up becoming cops (we're talking 2+2=5 dumb), but even they knew better than to BROADCAST their incompetence for the record. I just wonder how some of these departments are supposed to collect DNA evidence when half their force thinks DNA is a rap group from the 80's. Not that every Texas cop can be Sam Deeds from Lonestar, but geez.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Hijacked Public]

Who would they hire as replacments?

I'm not an idiot, but I don't want to be a cop. You don't. I think the job attracts that sort so maybe it should be eliminated...

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I have family in law enforcement, and many cops are just basically your average kids who go to police academy instead of higher education. They graduate and they're still your average kids- now with guns and badges. Whether they become good, honorable men/women is still up to them and many won't. Many will be hired by departments that will make it nearly impossible to be honorable and still have a career. Don't ever think they're the best of the best or that they were thinking of your safety when they took the job. I'm thankful for the good ones and I'm thankful I don't have to deal with some of the stuff they do, but if you look behind the uniform you'll often find the same idiot you'd find in the next cubicle where you work.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of uneducated or undereducated people seem to hate the police, it's obvious why. Try living without them. If your in a situation where you need help who are you going to call? Anonymous or a cop?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

And yeah embarrassing people like that just makes them all calm an rational...

They thought this is going to stop the police from looking into their actions?! Uh no. This is just going to galvanize them.

You dont poke the shark with a cattle prod. The shark is stupid as hell, mean as hell, and BITES.

I'm sorry but exposing those emails was grade A stuuuuuuuuuuupid.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[AngryDeuce]

They just suspended a cop here in Madison, WI the other day for illegally downloading the movie Hall Pass while he was on duty...not only did he download it on the police computer, but he got a virus in the process which he then tried to remove himself and obviously failed because, honestly, anyone that doesn't know how to even pirate a movie safely at this point sure as shit can't remove a virus...

Best and brightest they are not.

I went to school in Georgia, and I can pretty much tell you, the entire student body fell into one of two camps after graduation: Those that went to college (about 25%) and those that went into the military and/or Law Enforcement. You can probably guess which group had higher GPAs and SAT/ACT scores. It certainly gives me the warm and fuzzies knowing the guys that used to get their jollies beating up on Freshmen and drinking beer in the parking lot are now police officers...

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[fyngyrz]

Whether they become good, honorable men/women is still up to them and many won't.

If they conceal the misdeeds of their fellow cops -- they're just as bad as they are. And if they're ignorant of those misdeeds... they aren't smart enough to be cops. The whole structure is corrupt, top to bottom. We'll know it isn't when the bad apples start getting thrown out. That hasn't started in any serious way, nor do I expect it to.... because the whole structure is corrupt, top to bottom.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[elrous0]

If I'm black or Muslim in Friendswood, Texas, I might be better off just calling a friend with a gun.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Not for racism, bigotry, their general unprofessionalism, etc. I mean, that's kind of a given for local-level Texas cops. No, they should be for the epic level of stupidity they showed in actually *writing all that down* and *sending it in emails*.

Depends. Did they receive or send the chain emails. A cop receiving one is no different than reading /. and seeing a GNAA troll post on the screen as you scroll through the thread. Not his fault his buddies are dickbags. It's the cops sending them, that's a nother story.

It's been said that 99% of cops give the other 1% a bad name. That's obvious hyperbole.

But this is the first time the world has a sufficiently-large dataset to find out just what percentage of cops are professionals, and what percentage are merely roid-raging dickbags with a license to kill. It'd be very interesting to do some basic datamining by counting the From: headers in the dataset (that is, the set of unique email addresses that correspond to LEO domains) and comparing it with the set of unique email addresses who sent offending emails from LEO domains.

(As for the roid-raging, if some of them were dumb enough to use their work accounts for online dating, I wonder how many cops are dumb enough to email orders for illegal steroids from the same account...)

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Not one, not two, but three whole logical fallacies in less than a paragraph. That must be some sort of record.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[fyngyrz]

You honestly think there is a single cop in Texas... no, wait... in the entire USA, smart enough to backwalk a chain of proxies? lol. Just.... lol.

The CIA hasn't done it... the FBI hasn't done it... Interpol hasn't done it... believe me, patrolman Bubba Powermad McHomophobe isn't going to do it either.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[elrous0]

this is the first time the world has a sufficiently-large dataset to find out just what percentage of cops are professionals

That's actually an interesting idea. I wonder what the ethical implications would be if a university researcher proposed this. I know there are pretty serious restrictions on using human subjects in research. I wonder if using illegaly-obtained data, even if widely publicly available, would be disallowed. Probably would, but still could be interesting for someone doing private research.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

but if you look behind the uniform you'll often find the same idiot you'd find in the next cubicle where you work

ya except the guy in the next cube doesn't have a tazer, a gun, and immunity to use them at will

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[esocid]

But 2+2 does = 5, for large values of 2.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly, if the salary matched that of an intellectual job, I'd gladly be a cop, just to serve society and because I think I could be a lot more respectful of the people I'm supposed to serve than many cops today.

But that's the thing, we won't raise salaries for cops and as a result only uneducated idiots apply. I'd do a lot for the society I live in, but busting my ass in university to get a Master's degree and then end up doing a job that pays only 50k a year is not one of them.

Thankfully, some cops are educated, and some may not have post-grad degrees yet are still intelligent and respectful of the public they work for. But there should be many, many more cops like them.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[psiclops]

there are people that genuinely believe in the right ideals, who are exactly the sort of people that i'd want to be a cop. there's just not enough of them.

your view of other people is shaped entirely by previous experience (and largely by yourself but that's off topic). cops see a different side of society while on the job than your average bob (bob is far cooler than joe). add to that fact that there is already this culture of us vs them within the police force which not only skews their view in the way that people act towards them, but also because of the way their colleagues act/speak about the public.

I think more so than the people that are attracted to being cops being the wrong sort of people is that the people that are attracted to them are the wrong sort of people (public and fellow force members)

There's no real soluton to this problem in the world we currently live in. it's kind of a necessary evil, and definately could be improved upon, i just don't know how.

If you seriously think the world would be a better place without law enforcement, i'd love to live in your utopian bubble.

anarchy breeds tyranny. if you can come up with a system without cops that would work for a society of more than say 60 people (excluding orwellian or huxley nightmare dystopian futures) i'm all ears. and you probably deserve a nobel prize.

Note: i am not a cop, related to a cop, or friends with a cop. my judgements are based on my life experience and working in a job dealing with the general public (complaints to be specific)

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Stellian]

Who would they hire as replacments?

Especially someone with the same level of commitment to getting the job done. I mean, this guy lives and breaths law enforcement. Listen to him go :

"... Same with that pervert that got shot by the county. Fuck that guy, see ya. That all sounds like good police work to me. Those folks got the criminal cure. It's guaranteed, they will never commit a crime again."

Ever heard a programmer put so much passion ? "Great job punching that project manager in the face, he finally got what it fucking deserved. I swear if catch him messing around here again with his fancy schedule and Gantt charts, not letting us code and shit, I'm stab him with my stapler !"

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[jimicus]

A job for two who are now of job age, you might say?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true...

The thing that occasionally makes law enforcement unique among professions is when it is not corrupt and has a top-bottom culture of dedication. Then it tends to bring out the best in those average kids. When you get in and discover the whole place is just covering up everything that goes on, you just become another part of the problem. How do you handle institutionalized human corruption? No one's figured that one out yet. :)

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

My dad is a cop (granted, he's in a major city and also exceptionally tech-savvy for a Baby Boomer) and he's always having issues with other cops not being able to handle technology. I remember he was livid one time because a coworker manager to blow out every single outlet in their (very expensive) surveillance van while trying to recharge a freaking camera (also for surveillance). They're also constantly junking up their computers with God knows how many viruses. Most of the smart cops eventually leave for the suburbs or private sector.

Still, you've have to remember, most people who have skills like that prefer to work in safer, less soul-sucking jobs. It's rough trying to attract intelligent people to the force, especially as the government is taking away more and more of the perks (eg: you work around guns and sirens your whole career, but hearing aids are not covered by the health insurance plan). I'm not saying it's a good thing to have cops who don't know what they're doing but how many valedictorians do you know want to be cops when they graduate? Sure, you get some guys who want to give back to their community and whatnot but there aren't enough of them to power a police force.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[tha_mink]

Hrm. I see the false dichotomy, I could give you the Ad Hominem I guess, but I'm missing the third.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[ixtapa]

Who would they hire as replacments?

Off topic, but this is the same problem with firing all the bad teachers. Economic down spells aside, talented folk look elsewhere for careers. Both professions would benefit from some incentivization.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, swing and a miss... so not fired because they're racist pigs, but because they couldn't hide the fact from the public...
Let's fix the problem by hiding it!
u trolling son?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Nidi62]

Hell, I'm in graduate school for political science and I've been applying for local police jobs in and around Atlanta. APD starting salary for someone with a Master's degree is something like $44,000. Pretty much every other job opening I can find that I am qualified for in the area starts at something around $30,000. In Atlanta, $44,000 a year goes a long way, especially if you're single.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cobrausn]

As someone who has to put up with Texas cops on an occasional basis, I have to agree. There is a long history of Texas cops being particularly... 'tough'... shall we say (putting it nicely... there are other words). It was absolutely necessary at one point, all things considered (and near the border it may still be). But the time has come to give these good 'ol boys the same shakedown they have been giving us citizens for a while now, and see if we can't get some fresh blood in the (hopefully soon vacant) positions.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

And if they're ignorant of those misdeeds... they aren't smart enough to be cops.

Pop quiz, if one of the employees in your company (not necessarily your division) was embezzling, and caught, should you be held liable too? Since obviously you should have known, and if you didnt, obviously youre inept and not smart enough for your job?

Yea, thats really the kind of policies we want in place. Be aware of all misdeeds, or youre inept.

The whole structure is corrupt, top to bottom.

Thats a bold statement, with vague accusations. What type of corruption? Bribes? Who is being bribed?

Care to clarify and give some substance to your rather vague accusation? A source would be nice, too.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cavreader]

And you are a total idiot if you actually believe these guys can't be tracked down with ease by the NSA or any other affiliated security service. So far these morons are just petty nuisances but eventually they will cross a line that pisses off the wrong person who has both the resources and authority to take action. Anyway the government most likely already knows who some of these guys are but why stop them when they can just keep tabs on them and collect data on their activities for later use? And by the way genius how do you know the CIA, FBI, or Interpol has not successfully tracked down people? You actually think these organizations are going to issue a press release and reveal their capabilities to the world?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Runaway1956]

Generally, I don't see uniforms. Long, long ago, as a kid, I studied uniforms. Police, Army, Marines, even boy scout uniforms. Today? Nahhh. I wore a uniform for 8 years in the Navy, another uniform for 5 years as a boy scout leader, and I have another two years as a brownie scout leader. I see the uniform, and pretty much dismiss it. Instead, I see the man or woman IN that uniform. When I judge a man as good, bad, spectacularly good, or totally incompetent, that has a bearing on his department, in that the department hires good or bad people. But, that doesn't reflect on everyone in the department.

As a generality, I like cops. But, I'm aware that they aren't any more trustworthy than any other people. I don't trust a cop, unless I know him. I've been lied to by cops, just as readily as by my coworkers, or people on the street.

Never look at a uniform, and make any assumptions. There were some lowlife scumbags who wore my Navy uniform, and there were some admirable men and women that I was proud to call shipmate. You'll find the same thing among cops, scout leaders, Marines, or whoever.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

but he got a virus in the process which he then tried to remove himself and obviously failed because, honestly, anyone that doesn't know how to even pirate a movie safely at this point sure as shit can't remove a virus...

Best and brightest they are not.

Hahah, yea, those idiots, who gets a VIRUS these days (oh yea, more than 50% of computer users)? And who cant remove the advanced bootsector rootkits floating around today? I mean HONESTLY?

Part of my job as a consultant is helpdesk support. For lots of companies. Companies with really smart people, who just arent that computer savvy-- their masters is usually in economics, or law, or what have you. Theyre also people, and do dumb things some times, and get viruses. Laughing at them just makes you a simpleminded jerk who somehow thinks HIS degree is superior to all others and that if you arent informed in HIS field, your knowledge is worthless.

Posts like this really make me ashamed to tell people what I do for fear theyll think I have some superiority complex. It really seems rampant thru the tech world, and its incredibly obnoxious.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[fyngyrz]

When these folks exposed the US diplomatic corps and the banks and *nothing happened to them*, that's how we (well, not you, obviously) all knew they weren't easily caught. It's nothing to expose Texas cops, sure... but that's just the latest in a series of their actions. If you were paying attention and your mind produced more than lame ad hominem, you'd understand what is going on. You should work on that. In the meantime, leave the thinking to the people who know how.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a giant set of teeth um num num *bites u*

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Andy Dodd]

Yup. As far as my high school classmates - the proportion of students that went into military or law enforcement was FAR lower (5-10% at most), however, I grew up in a fairly wealthy county in suburban New Jersey. However, the students that later became cops were the worst troublemakers in school.

Of all the people I knew from childhood who became police officers, I can think of only ONE who could have been described as a "good kid". In fact, he was an Eagle Scout in my Boy Scout troop - however, law enforcement officers like him are sadly the exception and not the norm.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

If they conceal the misdeeds of their fellow cops -- they're just as bad as they are.

Like it or not, the police force is a civilian militia. You cannot expect it to operate without some kind of collective group code of conduct. I agree that such unwritten "codes" can be a source of very serious problems and even crime. But you cannot expect police forces to behave like just any other company or state organisation.

A better response is to instil a powerful sense of ethics in police forces, so that those who commit misdeeds are seen to have betrayed the collective trust of the group. Unfortunately, this would require promoting values which are practically unheard of in modern society into the very forces responsible for enforcing those values as they are written in law(which paradoxically they are). Probably not a move we can expect any-time soon.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cobrausn]

You've got it all wrong. You would be better off already owning said gun. Call the friend for backup.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

My brother-in-law is a cop. I wouldn't call him book smart (I don't think he could do calculus, where as I took AP calculus AB my junior year and have an engineering degree); he struggle in college but has a criminal justice degree. He's a practical smart though; he's good at building things, can efficiently use a bull dozer, has WONDERFUL people skills, is smart enough to LOUDLY say to stop resisting (he caught some one vandelizing the police station one night and while there were no eye witnesses, half the city mission across the street heard him, so when they person tried to claim police brutality without any bruises, my brother-in-law was covered).

Pay wise he'll be lucky to top out in the 30k range based on current pay scales. Right now he's in the mid-20's which is better then he was a jail guard and in the low 20's working full time, but still its not very much incentive. Luckily, he's in a small town and they take their oath to service extremely seriously; since animal control only responds to pets, he's picked up traps other officer have left to captures skunks when little old ladies call 911 over skunks. He's also handled my mom's next door neighbor he called the police saying her husband was cheating; in a small town where the husband recognized Joe and didn't want to mention his wife's dimentia, that's a delicate situation that requires real people skills.

In my brother-in-law's case both is parents are millionaires, so he's doing what he enjoys on the assumption his parents and my sister (child psycologist) will ensure the bills get paid. He's doing a job he loves and is doing a real service to his community, but how many people would really want to be in the situation? Are you surprised then at the level of police we see?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[fyngyrz]

Pop quiz, eh? ok. Here's my answer:

Cops are tasked with detecting crime. Knowing it when they see it, taking action accordingly. Now, if my company was made up of people tasked with detecting crime, and none of them caught on to the fact that a goodly number of their co-workers were in fact committing crimes, I think I'd fire everyone and start over. Which, not co-incidentally, is exactly what I think most police departments should do.

Thats a bold statement, with vague accusations. What type of corruption? Bribes? Who is being bribed?

Arresting people for recording/photographing public scenes. Beating citizens harshly (aka committing assault) after they are down and helpless. Killing them with tasers. Shooting people's pets. Breaking down doors without warrants. Hiding the misdeeds of their fellow officers. Speeding without any legal reason to exceed the limit (and man is *that* ever common.) Lying under oath. If you want more, go troll through the mass of stuff Anonymous just dumped. There's plenty. Nothing surprising to me, but I'll bet it will surprise you pretty harshly. As for sources.... for Darwin's sake, don't you know how to use a search engine yet?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[del_diablo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_code_of_silence
And here ya go: A wikipedia article about cops covering cops, because they are cops, and not because they are actually free of any guilt.
They will lie and attempt to cover everyones ass, even if they are all rapists and murders.
Look at it this way: If you are asked to "cover" for a fellow cop, you are doing a felony you are well aware of.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[X0563511]

How exactly do you go about doing that? I'm curious myself (and happen to be in the same area incidentally)

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[elrous0]

take my red swingline stapler...going to burn the building down...

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[ColdWetDog]

ya except the guy in the next cube doesn't have a tazer, a gun, and immunity to use them at will

Well, just move to Texas.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[KDR_11k]

With shitty pay for people with power I'd expect corruption much more than stupidity. Many corrupt countries have their corruption because they give people power but don't pay them enough so the empowered people decide to supplement their income by bribery or blackmail. Keep your policemen and judges well paid.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[JosKarith]

You find someone like that I'll happily transfer and work for him. He sounds cool.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[TheRaven64]

Both professions could benefit from a reliable way of differentiating the good from the bad.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think things turn out well for individual cops who decide to clean up their department.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Machtyn]

The problem with data is context. Illegally obtained data may still have a slant towards one opinion or another. Yet, legally obtained data may not be complete. It would be up to the researcher to give the data a full perusing and background check.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

I think your logic on the first point is badly broken (developers arent fired when they miss bugs, for example), but it seems pointless to argue with that viewpoint-- its clear we have a fundamentally different view on what a person is responsible for.

As for your list, thats a doozy. Lets take a look....

*Arresting people for recording/photographing public scenes.
---Im not really sure that qualifies as corruption, and youre kind of begging the question by calling them "public scenes"-- thats precisely the issue that theyre contesting.

*Beating citizens harshly (aka committing assault) after they are down and helpless.
---Source? How many, all of them? District commisioners, or just one cop? Generally, this is called "illegal", not "corruption"

*Killing them with tasers
---Tasers are known to be able to kill, but are nevertheless authorized for disabling people. If someone runs, gets nailed with a taser (assuming the taser was used properly), and dies subsequently, it would be as ridiculous to blame the cop as if his gun's barrel exploded and a piece of shrapnel killed a fellow cop.

*Shooting people's pets
--- Once again sounds like an individual cop; thats called "illegal", not corruption.

*Breaking down doors without warrants.
---Source? Pretty sure in those scenarios the arrrests would be immediately overturned by a judge.

* Speeding without any legal reason to exceed the limit (and man is *that* ever common.)
---Hypocrisy alert; by my estimates about 90% of drivers on the DC Beltway go significantly over the speed limit. But when cops do it, thats corruption, right?

*Lying under oath.
---Thats called perjury, is already illegal, and is generally punished pretty harshly when theres evidence of it. Have a specific case?

Ill note in none of those did you provide a link or source to a specific case; you just made general accusations with no details, and then suggested that corruption was involved. Thats not terribly impressive.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

Yes, that wikipedia article is impressive. In the first 3 paragraphs they make vague, weasly statements, with no source, and then on the end tack on a reference to an article that appears to be an opinion piece. This is one of the reasons wikipedia can be dangerous-- if you dont know how to check the sources on questionable statements, you shouldnt be reading wikipedia.

Thanks for the link tho, maybe I can put it up for review so someone can actually try to find sources for the statements that it makes.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Pop quiz, eh? ok. Here's my answer:

Cops are tasked with detecting crime. Knowing it when they see it, taking action accordingly. Now, if my company was made up of people tasked with detecting crime, and none of them caught on to the fact that a goodly number of their co-workers were in fact committing crimes, I think I'd fire everyone and start over. Which, not co-incidentally, is exactly what I think most police departments should do.

Even if your company isn't in law enforcement, it's still the responsibility of the employees (or, in general, citizens) to report crime. And, I would wager every law-abiding company on earth has policies in place that requires employees to pay attention to and report on violations of company policy by co-workers. Ergo, failure to notice that would mean the innocent employees weren't doing their jobs and should thus be fired. The GP's scenario still holds, and yours only reinforces it.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm in the accounting department and I'm tasked with auditing the books of that other employee's department and I don't catch it, damn straight. Cops are tasked with upholding the law... Not every cop is liable but those who are willfully ignorant of eachothers' misdeeds (this is a step below covering up) should be liable.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

The job shouldn't be eliminated, just watched under a microscope as it should be to prevent abuses of power and made to keep out of affairs that they have no place in (partly by legalizing non-issues and heavily regulating them).

If it doesn't destroy, deface, or endanger someones life, liberty, pursuit of happiness or property it is a non-issue, so no more ignoring a theft or domestic abuse to go chase a pot dealer.

They do these 2 things, the police will actually be respected again (instead of feared) and a lot of these issues will disappear.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Khyber]

If you haven't had your ears open to the world long enough to be able to recall multiple cases or news stories regarding those things WITHOUT the source being thrown in your face, you're as incompetent as the police we are questioning here, and you have zero place in this discussion.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Khyber]

"And you are a total idiot if you actually believe these guys can't be tracked down with ease by the NSA or any other affiliated security service"

Just FYI, the NSA has consistently failed to catch most hackers in any security exercise.

"You actually think these organizations are going to issue a press release and reveal their capabilities to the world?"

You don't know how the government system works, I see.
You very obviously don't know IT, either.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[iarnell]

It's impossible! I can't believe it!

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[shentino]

Look at the milwaukee voucher program.

Parents get to be picky about what schools to send their kids to.

That's right, good old fashioned competition.

Naturally, the teacher's unions lobbied the crap out of it to get it killed in house, and then when that didn't work they sent lawyers to sue.

They fought tooth and nail to kill the program and the people had to drag it all the way to the supreme court.

Sadly, anything that pisses off a big organization is probably a good thing these days.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[morari]

anarchy breeds tyranny.

It's hard to have tyranny without the police there to enforce it...

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[shentino]

The systemic corruption is what keeps those so called "individual" cops from being held accountable for what they are doing.

The actions might be lone wolf stuff, but the coverups are institutional.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[jimicus]

I wondered if anybody would get that.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're greatly underestimating what cops are paid, especially in larger cities.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[bongey]

Maybe that is what happens in Georgia but where I am from most didn't end up going to the military. I do agree a bunch of trouble makers from my school ended up being local cops. I clearly remember one always getting in fights and being suspended. The last time I saw him , he was cop for a police department near the school he was a trouble maker. You will be surprised that there are a lot of very smart intelligent people in the military but also bunch of dumb ones. Another surprise the MOS in the Army that has the highest GT score, and education is Infantry.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Hijacked Public]

I'm not fan of using Wikipedia as a reference source, but if you don't know what "common knowledge" is, you shouldn't be bogging down a discussion by throwing out "citation needed" for common knowledge.

A bit circular, on purpose.

Probably better than asking for internet links would be for you to go down to your local PD and ask to file a complaint against an officer.

Circular, because that is how I like it.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[c2me2]

Enjoy your safety and security. And maybe occasionally, tip your hat to the people who make it possible. War and policing are sausage factories. You might like the product, but you'll rarely enjoy seeing it made.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[gtall]

You were a boy scout leader and were also a brownie scout leader? Brownie scouts are girls' troops. Boy scouts are, well, boys' troops. That's one amazing resume you have there...if indeed we are to believe it is true.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[AngryDeuce]

The problem is the smart cops are the ones that work behind the scenes and undercover. The most forward-facing officers, i.e., the "beat cops", are usually those that are brand new and inexperienced and are soon to be promoted off the beat, or the ones either too stupid or too mean to ascend beyond that point.

Of course the general public is going to have a negative perception of cops if the only ones they ever deal with are the ignorant bullies from high school that got into law enforcement so they could continue their bullying behavior in a state sanctioned role.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[bigstrat2003]

a) not all tyranny comes from the state. b) even state tyranny doesn't need "the police", it needs people who will bully others in exchange for rewards (although you could argue that then these people are the de facto police).

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[canadian_right]

Previously...
anarchy breeds tyranny.
It's hard to have tyranny without the police there to enforce it...

Somalia has lots of tyranny and no police at all.

If your local police suck you should look into these things: how much are they paid? Low paying jobs get lower quality people. How much training do they get before starting and ongoing? Can't expect someone to do a complex job like policing with only 4 weeks training. Is there physiological screening? Good screening is important when dealing with a job so ripe for abuse. Low pay also generally leads to corruption as the police try to "top up" their pay.

As voters you DO have the power to make sure you have well trained, professional police in your community, but you will get what you pay for.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Break up with your girlfriend.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Not for racism, bigotry, their general unprofessionalism, etc. I mean, that's kind of a given for local-level Texas cops. No, they should be for the epic level of stupidity they showed in actually *writing all that down* and *sending it in emails*.

Racism and bigotry isn't unprofessional in Texas.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Predictably, most of the comments on this story will involve some form of "Texas cops are stupid". True or not, is it not ironic that it was proven by Anonymous in "retaliation" for acts done by people other than Texan cops?

By the way, with most of your population going to either college or military/law, you must have an awful shortage of tradesman, laborers, and others who make the world go round.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[bigstrat2003]

And if you can't be civil, you have zero place in ANY discussion.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Bucky24]

Parent asks for sources, you don't give them and make up some excuse that "everyone knows this". This makes your argument weak, as it indicates you don't have any basis for it.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate burst your ignorant bubble, but police are on record, breaking into houses, executing people (yes, murder), and absolutely NO ONE being prosecuted.

Such a case recently even made national news. The person they murdered was a vet of several tours and he died with his weapon in his hand, with it still on safety, defending his house, after completing an all night work duty, having been roused from bed after two hours of sleep to the noise of his door being assaulted. The police fired over 100 rounds. The police lied saying they returned fire. ALL evidence proves that was a lie. The dead soldier fired zero times and his weapon was still on safety. The solder was hit over 80 times. The solder died an HOUR later on the floor of his home. The police DENIED entry to paramedics and forced him to bleed out and die over of the course of an HOUR. They went out of their way to ensure he died so as to prevent gathering of any evidence against them. They claimed the house was not secured in spite of the fact the house was entirely secured within minutes, having been secured by some thirty cops and an armored vehicle in the driveway. The police murdered him in full view of his wife and child. The entire assault was caught on video from multiple sources, including helmet cams. Most of the video evidence has now been destroyed. None of materials which were on the warrant were found in the home. Turns out it was an illegal warrant. After the media started investigating, the police immediately sealed the illegal warrant.

Number of police prosecuted for the home invasion, assault, and murder of a completely legal and law abiding solder/citizen and his family, to date, is zero.

The fact of the matter is, police are commonly and frequently the worst criminals on the street. That's absolutely no exaguration. I encourage you to review what what is literally the tip of the iceberg.

You need to keep in mind, police are commonly trained to be military (which is unconstitutional), not police. Police no longer police. If you believe they do, you don't understand what police work actually is about. This started in the late 70s. Since then, every day, military forces are unconstitutionally being used against civilians while they work overtime to destroy protections afforded by the second amendment. We no longer have police forces. We just have mutliple tiers of military, with the second tier funded by the "war on drugs" and "anti-terrorism."

If you think for a second anything contained in this post is the least bit exaggerated or misleading, you are extremely ignorant and likely, willfully so. I encourage you to, at a minimum, spend five hours on YouTube to get a tiny, tiny, tiny taste of the extreme crimes being committed by police EVERY DAY. It is absolutely no exaguration to say, the largest criminal group in America, at this time, is the police.

At this time, police have more rights than you do. At this time, in many states, it is illegal to sue police officers. At this time, criminal prosecution of police, in many states and cities, require the police departed to sign off on even allowing it to go before the courts. Its like requiring street gangs to sign off on the prosecution of members of their gangs.

Seriously, if disbelieve anything contained in this post, YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH AMERICA! PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!! Thanks to the Internet there is no shortage of information readily available. All you need to do is make an effort to stop being so ignorant. Its that easy.

As a side note, here's a test to determine if your gun laws are unconstitutional. Do you have less access to weapons available to your police? If the answer is yes, you currently live under unconstitutional gun laws. The sad fact is, a very large number of Americans currently live under the rule of unconstitutional gun laws and yet people have been brainwashed to believe otherwise. The sad fact is, most American's live with unconstitutional gun laws and have been taught otherwise.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cheekyjohnson]

It just indicates that he didn't present the basis, not that he doesn't have one at all.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Runaway1956]

Uhhhhh - why is it hard to comprehend? At three different points in time, I volunteered my time to Cubs and Boy Scouts. At another point in time, I also volunteered time for a Brownie troop. Actually, some of my Boy Scout and Brownie Scout time overlapped. What, exactly, is there to prevent someone from volunteering to serve boys in one instance, and girls in another instance?

When I wore that Navy uniform, I served EVERYONE, including boys and girls!

As for believing that it is true - it doesn't matter what you believe. It's my life, and I'm happy with it. At my age, either I've done most of what I ever wanted to do - or I would never get around to it!

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure he was under the impression that men aren't allowed to be Brownie Scout leaders because all men are pedophiles and some of them aren't gay pedophiles.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[priceslasher]

Then limit society to 150 or so. A small portion of these have dual citizenship with a neighboring society forming metasocieties at the interces. Every able bodied person takes their turn putting out fires or disputes or dealing with casualties. When one breaks down the surrounding interces mobilize, but with limits, and you need a meta-layer for evey order of societal unit magnitude to prevent polarization events. People start acting right because they or someone they know alternates as nanny and citizen so they develop mindfulness, they also know exactly what part of the world they belong and how their environment relfects on the groups around them - so instead of inefficiently keeping up with the Jonses one on one we can find that perfect balance of competing as a team with the neighboring team. Imagine taking a mower around the block three times and everyones grass is cut. Efficiencyville does just that. Oooh Engineerville27s lawns seem impossibly disconnected! Ah, they are patrolled by automomous lawnbots disguised as bushes. And in Hippyville it is said they somehow share their grass. You have alternating bands of industryville, cultureville, artville, researchville, defenseville, utilityville, retirementville, educationville connected by high speed trains. Badvilles are surrounded by goodvilles. Immigration and new society formations follow strict patterning to ensure caste mobility. Hmm, if you murder someone or have a disastorous mishap then your citizenship options simply become limited to special societies where everyone else has done something similar. Speeding over 100mph? 3rd offense? Needforspeedland for you, watch out for other speeders. They might even drive carefully there because they don't want to have to move to the next level where it is just crazy dangerous or do time in defenseville for points back if applicable. And the best part is that the whole thing is orchestrated by a really smart computer space satellite that keeps up with everyone through their implant.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[fyngyrz]

Parent is simply lazy. Google it. You too. Go on, use the Intertubes. It's not difficult, and there are PLENTY of examples. I didn't give them because it's trivial. Look here: http://www.google.com/search?q=police+malfeasance

One point two MILLION results. How many of those do you think say "there isn't any"? Wanna go for half? (hah! In your dreams...) That still leaves 600,000 results. And that entirely leaves out any that don't specifically use the word malfeasance.

It's not my argument that's weak here. And I think you know it perfectly well.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, with most of your population going to either college or military/law, you must have an awful shortage of tradesman, laborers, and others who make the world go round.

Actually, it's the other way around, we have too many of them, so the extras usually go into one of the two careers left in the US that offers a living wage without a college education: military and law enforcement.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Belial6]

If you and the employee are in security and our job is to identify and remove people who are embezzling, and you witnessed your co-working embezzling, then YES you should be held liable also. At that point you are an accomplice to the crime. Just as police that turn a blind eye to other police committing crimes are accomplices.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Bucky24]

It's not my argument that's weak here. And I think you know it perfectly well.

No... No I don't know that. You're the one trying to prove something, aren't you? So it's not up to me to do the work to verify your proof.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

This makes your argument weak

Only to the two people who apparently can't "recall multiple cases or news stories regarding those things". Who, as he said, have zero place in the discussion anyway, because they've apparently been keeping their heads up their ass.

You can leave any time now.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Kreigaffe]

I'm quite talented at teaching new concepts to people and to kids. I've quite a long time left before I'll be legally allowed to teach. While I appreciate the higher-level classes in my chosen subject that I'm forced to take, I will never need those to teach high school, and while I appreciate that some classes on child psych and teaching methods will be useful, most of them aren't and won't be.

Now, after I do get through all that, within 6 years I'll need a Masters or I'll no longer be allowed to teach.

I mean, FUCKING REAL? How the fuck can you justify such an intensive education when I'll never need the overwhelming majority of it to just.. teach.. kids. I'm not talking elementary school. I'm talking high school, math, science, physics.

There's a problem. Because of bad teachers -- and because it's so fucking hard to get rid of bad teachers -- the requirements to teach have been raised and raised until they're now higher than the requirements for a more well-paying job in the private sector. AND NONE OF THAT BULLSHIT MAKES SOMEONE A BETTER TEACHER (and I fully appreciate the humor in my short temper and foul mouth and desire to teach -- trust me, folks, that's how I am normally but when I'm getting gears in heads turning I'm an entirely different, eternally patient, and deeply understanding nice guy).

And, of course, since the bar is set so high to simply teach -- well, now teachers need to make more money, because they have such large monetary requirements to get to the point that they can teach and to continue teaching, and because with their level of education they could easily make more elsewhere.

If I could drop out of college, right-the-hell-now, and begin teaching, but only ever make 30k a year.. I'd do so in a heartbeat. I don't care about money. All I want to do is to have a job I enjoy doing, and the one thing that I'm naturally talented at doing -- I've been teaching and tutoring people since I was a *child*, simply because I love doing it and people love the way I do it. But I can't, because nobody has the fucking backbone to look at some moron who doesn't understand how to explain simple concepts to others and tell them so. Because our society abhors making judgement calls, and so rather than make a decision on an individual who cannot perform their job properly we instead shift responsibility onto rules and regulations that DO NOT address the actual issue anyway -- but hey, it makes us feel better, right?

The hardest part about becoming a teacher is not the part where you teach, but rather all the goddamnedable hoops that you have to jump through to reach that part.
In the end, you're left less with competent teachers than you are with talented hoop-jumpers.

That's the problem with increasing incentivization for teachers, too. It makes it a more competitive profession compared to other professions that holders of the degrees that teachers hold have available to them, but the problem is that making teaching more attractive for those at that level of education will only draw in more people who are only tentatively interested in teaching. The real problem is the requirements to teach are simply too great, because nobody wants to have to make a stand and make a call as to whether someone is a good teacher or not -- hell, even if they could, the unions put the kibosh on that sort of thing.

It's no different than suggesting that the quality of service at a restaurant could be improved by mandating 2 year degrees in culinary school for all wait staff, and after a number of years they must complete their bachelor's, and then making their pay close to that of executive chefs. None of that would make for better wait staff. Those with talent and desire would have both crushed by excessive and unnecessary training and monetary obligations, and the rest would be those who once aspired to be executive chefs but washed out at some point. Oh, and you couldn't fire the waiter who drops drinks, nor the one who clearly is disdainful of customers, nor

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Bucky24]

I'm well aware of police brutality. What I have trouble with is someone trying to just throw facts out there assuming everyone else will know and agree. I'm sorry, but I'm an engineer. I don't believe something just because someone says so. I need facts, and if someone comes to me with a story, even if I believe it, I will want something backing it up. I realize the OP was preaching to the choir and I've stepped into the middle of a "police brutality" fanboi convention. I'm sorry that some of us don't just accept what other people say without evidence of the fact.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[sjames]

If the ones they have celebrate when they shoot someone dead, and believe all minorities are criminal, they'd be better off with nobody at all; if that's all they can do. Otherwise, they'll have to pay more until they attract someone more appropriate.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[said213]

"Criminal Justice Resources :
Police Corruption - Police Integrity"

http://staff.lib.msu.edu/harris23/crimjust/polcorr.htm

Please take note of the numerous .edu and .gov references... and the fact that you're a bit of an asshole.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[morari]

We don't need better paid cops, we need less asinine laws.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Not for racism, bigotry, their general unprofessionalism, etc. I mean, that's kind of a given for local-level Texas cops. No, they should be for the epic level of stupidity they showed in actually *writing all that down* and *sending it in emails*.

Hmm, so the only racists remarks were in the first two emails (yes, I read all 3k+ lines). Most people stop reading after a page. Seems a little too convenient. All the other missives look like typical police communique. I am not in LEO but I provide software for LEO and EMT/Firefighters (so they can find your house when you need them). We have many clients in Texas and I have been privy to real time dispatch communication and messaging sent to units. NEVER have I seen anything like the first two entries in anon's alleged "data dump".

These little boys need to stop fucking around and get a life. Keep poking the bear with a stick and it will maul you.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[bdparsley]

or very small values of 5

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[_0xd0ad]

and very small values of 5.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Pseudonym Authority]

The idea is not to become educated enough to regurgitate it to children, but to become a better, more well rounded individual who would be good at teaching children. Really, anyone with a high school diploma could teach kids how to count to ten, but they are going to be a dipshit with little insight into the larger picture. This is why I think that all that "General Education" degree bullshit should be done away with, and teachers taught philosophy\logic instead, followed by study in their field.

Also, if you ever teach math, don't be a dick at teach kids this "cross multiplication" garbage. That is not valid math and it still has to be sorted out in Calc I. You should study advanced classes so that you don't invent a bunch stupid "shortcuts" that lead to disaster down the line.

It's no different than suggesting that the quality of service at a restaurant could be improved by mandating 2 year degrees in culinary school for all wait staff, and after a number of years they must complete their bachelor's, and then making their pay close to that of executive chefs.

Yes, it is a lot different. If the waitress fucks up, the meal is cold and the evening ruined. If a teacher fucks up, then that kid is put off of schooling, probably for good. A sad fate for such a young life. If you can't understand the delicacy, then you have no business teaching.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Pseudonym Authority]

This is the internet argument, not a research paper. Fucking google it.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[BitZtream]

I'm quite talented at teaching new concepts to people and to kids.

Yea, you and every other fresh out of school teacher.

You don't even do it professionally and you think you're good at it. You are exactly the problem with Academia in general. You think you are the muthafuck'n bomb and deserve to be paid more, work less hours, and never have to compete to keep your job.

You're talking about bad teachers and how hard it is to get rid of them when you have EXACTLY 0 EXPERIENCE out side of ... being taught yourself.

You think you're different than the rest. You are just more of the same, and you are the problem with education in America. Too arrogant to realize how special you aren't. You sound just like my sister-in-law, who after couldn't manage to teach at any single school for any length of time because of 'insert reason it was someone elses fault here'.

Now, after I do get through all that, within 6 years I'll need a Masters or I'll no longer be allowed to teach.

Yes, theres a lot of shit I need more training to do in order to keep doing it, your profession is in no way unique. Welcome to life, once you actually get out of school and start living in the real world instead of being coddled MAYBE, just MAYBE you'll get it. I rather doubt it, its far more likely you'll bitch about how it takes a few years to get tenure and say its the bad teachers fault.

Apparently there isn't a shortage of people willing to do exactly what you are complaining about for exactly the salaries you are complaining about. For someone who's supposed to be a great teacher I'd have thought someone along the way would have taught you the most basic of economics, specifically supply and demand, which you clearly utterly fail to understand. Requirements keep getting higher, salaries keep getting lower and still positions get filled. There are people far more qualified than you doing the job, and it'll always be that way since you'll just whine about how hard it is.

Your attitude already lets everyone around you that doesn't have his/her head stuck up their academic ass realize that you are going to be pretty bad at it.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

Parent (me) asked for sources for his claims, and he provide a zillion MORE unsourced claims. How is that reasonable? You want me to do his legwork, and have to guess which incidents he is referring to?

For instance, Ive heard of deaths from tasers, but never of a case where the death was shown to be due to wrongdoing by the cops. Perhaps hes mixing that up with the "dont tase me bro" case where the dude resisted arrest and was deservedly tased?

Look, this isnt hard. If someone makes unsourced claims, and I challenge him on it, its up to HIM to provide SOME kind of proof that hes not full of crap. [Citation needed] on wikipedia doesnt mean that the READER needs to find the citations, it means the person making the claims does.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

Hate burst your ignorant bubble, but police are on record, breaking into houses, executing people (yes, murder), and absolutely NO ONE being prosecuted.

And yet, STILL no source to this supposedly on record incident, and not even enough specificity for me to be able to google it were I so inclined.

Sorry, without more than just the unsourced (and rather bold) claims of an Anonymous Coward, Im not gonna bother reading your wall of text. Facts are what counts, not your opinion.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[said213]

I view the first sign of a firearm on anyone, functioning in any capacity, as the only sign needed to avoid at all costs or to approach with extreme caution. Just those two options, though. Some assumptions are necessary, healthy and important.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[BitZtream]

Not for racism, bigotry, their general unprofessionalism, etc. I mean, that's kind of a given for local-level Texas cops.

Wow ... talk about ignorance.

I'm fairly confident you should look up the actual meaning of bigot and then take a long hard look in the mirror until you realize how it applies to you and your life.

The rest of your post goes on to show exactly how ignorant you are. Your post is no different than every other form of racism, ignorance and hate. The only difference is you didn't pick skin color or religion, you picked profession and location.

I suggest you go tell your cop friends how stupid you think they are, let us know how that works out for you.

You sir, are one ignorant fuck.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Wish I were you. Ignorance must be bliss.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[_0xd0ad]

Also, if you ever teach math, don't be a dick at teach kids this "cross multiplication" garbage. That is not valid math and it still has to be sorted out in Calc I.

Um, what?

(a)/(b) = (c)/(d)
((a)/(b))(d) = c
((a)(d))/(b) = c
(a)(d) = (b)(c)

That's perfectly valid math, and most of the parentheses are unnecessary. I only included them because that's where most people will screw up when they try to cross-multiply something. But they ought to be smart enough to figure out on their own when they need parentheses around one of the factors.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[kilfarsnar]

cavreader has a lot of faith in the abilities and moral rectitude of our supervisors.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[BitZtream]

You know, its funny how its unique that police are the only profession who covers each others asses ...

Wait ... its not ... pretty much every single profession out there is the same way.

Most people with any sort of social skills don't want to rat out someone for what the perceive as a minor infraction or just a simple mistake. You want a little leeway yourself so you give it to others (well, most well adjusted people work this way, you certainly may be different). You know, don't tell the boss I was late ... look, I lost my temper because the guy hit me in the eyebrow and it hurt like a bitch for a second, whatever.

For me, if I ask a coworker to cover my ass in a mistake, it might mean someone doesn't get pretty pictures in their email, for a cop its entirely different, so we must hold them to a higher standard.

However, they are still human, and really are no different than me or you.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[BitZtream]

Whats so unbelievable about it? Do you have a problem with a man leading girl scouts or something? Its not exactly unheard of. Personally I think boyscouts should be lead by men, and girls by women, but you'll find on military bases and such, where the men aren't always numerous enough or get deployed, and the wives will step in to fill the gap.

Its not ideal in my opinion, but its better for the kids than nothing at all. It goes both ways. Daddies teach little girls things just like mommies teach little boys things ... I'm guessing you don't have any children and are probably a single parent child ... or possibly 12 years old/too stupid to realize how the actual world works.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

If I was asking about it, its not common knowledge to me, and Im very clearly asking for some evidence that its not an urban legend. Such things are rather common on the internet, you know.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

I appreciate the link, and Im not sure why me wanting evidence of such claims makes me an asshole, but apparently thats what the internet does to a discussion.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[HiThere]

No, that's just accessory after the fact. This isn't as bad as someone who conceals that they are planning to commit a misdeed (acessory before the fact) which *IS* just as bad.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

This is really rather astonishing.

If the article were on "Theists believe in a wacky God", all the comments would be on how they have no proof for what they believe and whatnot; but I request some kind of source for parents claims, and a 30 post argument erupts over whether or not evidence is necessary, I get called an asshole, and I think a grand total of 2 people took the effort to provide some kind of backing to their statements.

I mean, how do people reconcile that kind of hypocrisy? Its not like I have some vested stake in police corruption going undetected, I simply havent seen anything which leads me to believe that its a national level thing as is being implied.

Do I think there are problems of police corruption in bigger cities? You bet, but I think thats the nature of bigger cities and corruption that goes with power. I dont think its something that affects every PD in the country, and I dont think its unreasonable to challenge someones statement that "the entire thing top to bottom is corrupt".

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[said213]

I referred to you as being an asshole because you appear to be too bright to be as obtuse as you are presenting in words.
Don't blame the internet... I'm just one moron with a commoner's opinion and a bloated sense of self-importance.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Pseudonym Authority]

No, it is not math, there is no such thing as "cross multiplication".

a/b=c/d
d(a/b)=d(c/d) //multiplication by d to both sides of the equation
(da)/b=c //d is divided by d on the left
b(da)/b=cb //multiplication by d to both sides of the equation
ad=cd //b is divided by b on the right

That is not the magic of cross multiplication that is taught as "just take the lower numbers of the fractions and move them to the other sides, now work 100 problems for homework and move on to english". It seriously fucks people out of a chance to understand something fundamental about equations: that it indicates equality, and you cannot just arbitrarily push numbers around.Sure, it works fine as short hand, but is worse than worthless as a teaching tool.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[_0xd0ad]

I guess I was just lucky, then, to have stuff explained to me in detail (and forced to learn it) before I was given magic shortcuts.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Kreigaffe]

Wah wah wah.

I'm not even a fresh out of school teacher, bro. I'm still IN school.

And I HAVE taught, albeit on a smaller scale. Both independently -- teaching concepts and techniques to both family and friends when the actual teachers failed to adapt their method of explaining those things to the particular way in which the individual was misunderstanding them -- and professionally -- teaching methods of completing tasks on a job efficiently and explaining the reasons for doing things in one particular manner or another and providing examples of how else the tasks I was training them on may be accomplished and the advantages and disadvantages of the method I recommend as well as the methods others have used.

I love your reading comprehension, by the way. The way you presume that I think I deserve more pay and less hours, despite me clearly stating I'd be more than willing to work for a pittance, and despite all indications that this is a task for which I have eternal patience and from which I draw great enjoyment simply to be doing regardless of the reward.

I never complained about the salaries being too low -- in fact, I complained that they were too high. I never complained about how hard it is to attain tenure -- in fact, I complained that tenure is a large reason there is a glut of bad teachers.
Of course, tenure only exists because the general public is far too critical of teachers. I provided some examples of perfectly acceptable behavior which takes place entirely outside and apart from school that can cause serious problems for teachers. Did you read that? No.. of course you didn't. But, just in case you're reading this, I'll explain.
It's easier to fire a teacher for an invalid reason than it is to fire them for being a bad teacher. Get enough parents complaining that they saw a teacher sitting at a bar with a beer in their hand over the summer, or that they saw a teacher at a political rally for an unpopular view -- which could be anything, pro-choice or life, defense of marriage or LGBT rights -- and a teacher will catch shit, because the administration is catching shit. If the teacher is simply not very good at their job, well now THEN the administration will go to bat for them.
But who cares, you're not reading this, either.

You read two words I typed and assumed a whole fucking load of things I would be saying, not a single one of which I ACTUALLY said and quite a few of which I hold the opposing view.

Fucking misguided unintelligent ape. Go find someone else to vent your frustrations about your sister-in-law. I am not her, and she is not me. Were you not such an idiot I'd gladly hand you my phone and tell you to call ANY NUMBER ON THERE and ask that person to describe to you the extent of my ability to teach and tutor them on things they were unable to understand. You see, THAT IS WHO I AM. I'm even doing it now, despite my utter lack of a single fucking shit about your continued existence -- yes, you're so dense I doubt a single tear would be shed were you to pass from this earth before I click "Submit", yet even now I am compelled to explain to you the manner in which you are wrong and further to expound upon the correct answer in a way that maybe you will understand. And were this to fail, I'd do it again. And again. My patience for this is eternal, and my reward absolutely personal.

Oh, a parting word. That BIG SCARY REAL WORLD you seem to believe I've never been a part of? I'm 29, bro. I've lived out in the real world and found it unrewarding, outside of the few chances I had in my previous job to teach newer employees. Every single one of them thanked me, personally, and privately spoke to my boss about how good I was at explaining things to them, how patient I was, and how much they actually enjoyed coming in to work under me. The actual jobs were not at all enjoyable -- but I put them at ease, I was patient with them, and I was quite careful to push them to perform exactly as much as I was confident they could do at the

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Pseudonym Authority]

Well I wasn't. I was also unfortunate enough to be taught that 0/0=1 in 6th grade. I bet that teacher thought that she could get by teaching kids with a crappy education herself too.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cheekyjohnson]

In my opinion, that's irrelevant. I don't think someone should have to go around and look for something themselves every single time someone states something as a fact without citing a source.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[shutdown -p now]

Have a look at how they fixed recurring issues with police in Georgia (the caucasian country, not the US state) under Saakashvili.

They started by firing every cop who did something profoundly stupid or illegal. In the latter case, they also racked up heavy prison time (like 5-10 years) - even for "small" things like bribes. After several months, they've either imprisoned or laid off about 85% of the workforce.

Then, they've started a hiring campaign. Very stringent standards (all remaining employees also had to qualify), but also fairly high pay (the average salary in Georgia is ~$350, cops get $500-700).

End result? According to the polls, almost 90% of the people trust police - the only organization that ranks higher is the Church.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Kreigaffe]

I actually had no idea what problem you were talking about until the discussion below you developed.

I just.. wow, man, wow. People actually DO that?

There wouldn't even be an issue if instead of jumping straight to fractions on both sides of the equation, if they simply started at a more simple step.
A/B = C
There you go.. explain how and why that is done and there's no need for a trick when the right side reads C/D.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I was fortunate, I suppose, to have some pretty talented teachers.
Some.. not all.

So far as the waitress/teacher analogy.. refer back to the "not all" statement. When I took Trig, my teacher had years previously given up on teaching. It took me a long time to catch up to where I should have been, and I still actually struggle at times to keep things straight (nothing a short 5-second glance askew and bit of reasoning can't sort out, but not something I feel others need to do).

There are teachers now who are fucking up kids by teaching them poorly, and by teaching them poor information. Not all of them are bad because they're just waiting until retirement, either -- some just can't connect with other people in a way that allows them to explain new concepts in an easily digestible manner. Some aren't able to intuit when their lessons have whizzed over heads. The teachers who can't do that, don't pick it up later on.

That's unfair. Maybe some do. Certainly some do not. Teachers and professors alike, I've found some that simply don't understand those concepts, who are unable to modify their method of explaining a concept to students if the students don't immediately grok it. They are fucking kids up, and all their instruction on how to teach did no good.

If I had my druthers, that sort of teacher would be fired. That doesn't happen, though. The excessive schooling needed for teachers is a way of compensating, in my opinion, for the difficulty of getting rid of teachers who aren't very good at it.

I did have a few not very good teachers, and at least two that were awful. I rarely if ever remember them. It's the really good ones I remember. I don't think a single bad teacher will put a kid off learning -- that strikes me as something that would cross from being bad at their job to being criminal -- so long as that kid manages to find some good teachers, too.
With the usual caveats about their parents and upbringing, of course.. but that's.. that's a whole different big old mess.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cavreader]

"the NSA has consistently failed to catch most hackers in any security exercise." Please provide the source of the facts that support this statement. The only thing l now about how our government works is that as a single entity it barely works at all. However, there are some sections that work very well indeed. Of course for more information about these sections you need to obtain a SCI rated security clearance. I don't understand IT? How would you know from the content of this post? Granted I have only been working in IT for 26 years but I am always willing to learn something new.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[shutdown -p now]

As a generality, I like cops. But, I'm aware that they aren't any more trustworthy than any other people.

The problem isn't the uniform, it's the things that come with said uniforms - like, you know, tazers and guns - and, even more importantly, the ability to use them in circumstances that a regular citizen cannot. I would argue that those who are entrusted with such tools (which are definitely necessary to uphold law and order) should also be upheld to a standard higher than average citizen. I.e. they should be more trustworthy than other people. If that is not the case, then we're doing something wrong.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is simply lazy. Google it. You too

You're the one being lazy, and you know it. You made the assertive claim, therefore the burden of proof is 100% upon you. You are literally demanding that your opponent do the work of proving your point for you, and you are screaming at your monitor in impotent rage at me for correctly identifying you as the lying scumbag you are trying to pretend not to be.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cavreader]

"When these folks exposed the US diplomatic corps and the banks and *nothing happened to them* The government didn't have to expend much effort to catch the person responsible for releasing that data. I do believe they have the poor fellow under guard at the moment awaiting his opportunity to proclaim his innocence and I would put that in the "something happening" category. As far as using ad hominems goes the majority of the posts on this entire thread have used just that to justify the claim that every police officer in Texas is a corrupt moron. It's amazing how fast people can condemn thousands of people simply by looking through a couple of e-mail messages.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Ihmhi]

Well, there's a rather large pool of non-minority persons who haven't been hired because of the areas that take federal money (and thus have to meet certain ethnicity quotas). I'm sure there's a few hundred officers in Texas and surrounding states sitting on their asses or working as mall security because they're too white to get hired.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Pseudonym Authority]

Keep poking the bear with a stick and it will maul you.

Yes, we should cower and hope they show mercy.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

As logic does not cease to apply just because the setting is informal, the "not a research paper" excuse doesn't magically shift the burden of proof away from the claimant. And yes, that IS what you claimed. And doing so makes you a liar.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[FLaSh SWT]

If I'm black or Muslim in Friendswood, Texas...

If you were black or Muslim you wouldn't be in Friendswood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendswood,_Texas

The racial makeup of the city was 90.09% White, 2.70% African American, 0.40% Native American, 2.39% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 2.79% from other races, and 1.63% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 8.79% of the population.

Although seriously, ignoring this current story, Friendswood is a really nice city with good schools and I'd happily live there if I could afford it. (I live nearby.)

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[nahdude812]

Pop quiz, if one of the employees in your company (not necessarily your division) was embezzling, and caught, should you be held liable too?

If it was my job to catch people like that, and I knowingly turned a blind eye, then I should be held accountable accordingly, yes.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, if disbelieve anything contained in this post, YOU ARE WHAT'S WRONG WITH AMERICA!

This is a false dichotomy and an an attempt at emotional blackmail, and constitutes an unconditional surrender of the argument. You can never take that surrender back or prove it wrong in any way.

Also, the word "literally" means literally the exact opposite of what you think it does. Unless, perhaps, you can demonstrate that floating somewhere in an ocean exists an actual, physical iceberg that is composed not of ice but of criminal abuses of police power (and yet still somehow manages to be an iceberg despite lacking the "made of ice" trait that defines icebergs)?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

"Those that went to college (about 25%) and those that went into the military and/or Law Enforcement. You can probably guess which group had higher GPAs and SAT/ACT scores"

No, you simple-minded bigot. Very high SAT - went into USMC. Then went to school for my pretty B.S. paper. I am smart. I can kick your butt. I am your worst fear - a smart libertarian redneck. Fuck your 'civilization'.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct me if I'm wrong: Anonymous are the bad guys, and need to be hunted down and arrested, and the police are the good guys who deserve the respect of society and the high pay that is usually accorded to these positions of trust.

And people like Robert Wieners, the Chief of Police for Friendswood, Texas; are promoted to leadership positions because "Those folks got the criminal cure.". Sometimes I wonder if I should be on Thorazine.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Sardaukar86]

Isn't he attacking the unprofessional culture of his local cops with his comment, rather than their occupation in general?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Grumbleduke]

As pointed out above, this is an Internet discussion, not a research paper... it is expected that people debating on the Internet have at least some basic ability to find things for themselves. But, if you insist:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=vet+shot+police

Now, I get 14.8m hits on that - obviously not all are going to be about the same story. However, the first result does seem to refer to the story mentioned, and still on the first page there is a slightly more detailed version of the story from later on, after some more details had emerged. Ok, so the OP may have got some of the numbers incorrect (70 to 100, 60 to 80), but the substance seems to be true.

Happy now?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Blymie]

Bah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident

It was *international news* multiple times, for weeks on end (as each part of this incident hit the news, over the months).

Do you *read* the news.

By the way, before you try to claim that the above showed no wrongdoing by the cops:

1) you can be a cop, and be reprimanded without being charged or fired. That's still 'wrongdoing'.

2) there was a financial settlement involved. The burden of proof in civil court is 50.1%, and in criminal court it is much higher (beyond a reasonable doubt is likened to 99%). Financial settlements do NOT occur unless there is a very good chance of a finding of liability in civil court.

3) *FOUR COPS* tasered an unarmed man. FOUR. At once!

4) the RCMP tried to supress video of the incident

5) likely, charges will be laid when this is all over

Now, on the other side of the coin, this was the action of 4 police officers, not the entire RCMP. The real problem here is, that these cops should have been fired and charged with manslaughter, long long ago.

Note, if I'm operating a crane, and through misjudgement I kill a man -- I'd get charged and most likely convicted of manslaughter. The guy in the above wikipedia article was not threatening anyone, nor approaching anyone aggressively.

While I do think that cops get a bad rap too often, if you don't want to work in a profession where you must be *very* careful of how you perform your job (heavy equipment operator, electrician, medical profession, police, etc).. then, DO NOT APPLY FOR THAT JOB.

If you kill a man, in ANY profession, and you do so due to improper / accidental behaviour, YOU NEED TO BE CHARGED, IMMEDIATELY!

I understand that in the US things are a bit different -- but here, generally speaking (in Canada), not obeying a cop does NOT provide immediate cause to assault a citizen. For example, the 'don't tase me bro!' guy incident would not have happened here, unless a cop was acting illegally. That's because, there's nothing the 'don't tase me' guy did *wrong*, if he was in Canada.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Khyber]

"So it's not up to me to do the work to verify your proof."

You'll never be a scientist, I can already tell.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Khyber]

"What I have trouble with is someone trying to just throw facts out there assuming everyone else will know and agree. I'm sorry, but I'm an engineer."

And your mindset is exactly why you'll never make it in a harder field of science, such as photobiology.

"I'm sorry that some of us don't just accept what other people say without evidence of the fact."

That looks like an admission of ignorance to what is happening in the real world, to me.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Khyber]

"Please provide the source of the facts that support this statement"

Never heard of LuzSec, I see, despite that being the most recent group to wreak havoc. Hundreds of thousands of people involved with various activities from DDoS to SQL injection and only a HANDFUL actually caught.

I re-iterate. The NSA and other Gov't agencies are useless. Their very incompetence and greed is what is allowing this to happen.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[WNight]

We pay the RCMP fairly well and four of them tazed a man to death at an airport, apparently just to watch him die.

Then they all took their ID numbers off and beat people in Toronto while enforcing illegal "laws".

How much do we have to pay them so they won't be thugs? Because at this point they've proven that they'd, like Iranian police, kill us rather than protect us.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

It really does matter whether or not you can handle a computer, though. They're such a big part of most people's lives that they become helpless children when their PC breaks. It's like not being able to change a tire.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

But getting rid of the "few bad apples" will purge about 95% of the police force.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

Er, in that story, a swat team surrounds a house suspecting pot (and I agree a swat team sounds kind of crazy for this, but whatever, thats not the discussion). Now, lets put you in the guys shoes:

* You have armed police entering your house
* You have a wife and kids nearby
* You have a loaded AR15 laying nearby

Should you A) lay down and not start something, or B) pick up your AR15 and start attacking the SWAT team? Guess which he chose? Guess why he got shot?
As the SWAT team forced its way into his home, Guerena, a former Marine who served two tours of duty in Iraq, armed himself with his AR-15 rifle and told his wife and son to hide in a closet. As the officers entered, Guerena confronted them from the far end of a long, dark hallway.

Yea, TOTALLY blame the police for opening fire on a guy brandishing an automatic rifle, that really shows corruption.

THis is why I wanted people to provide the links-- I would have seen that article and thought to myself, CLEARLY noone find fault in THIS case, but yet here we are, that happens to be one of the stories supposedly showing widespread systemic corruption.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[LordLimecat]

Thats fine and dandy, but I stopped reading at the "in Canada" part, because I had thought the discussion was on corruption in the US police force. I fail to see the connection between the RMCP and US police forces. There may or may not have been wrongdoing in that instance, but its really irrelevant to the discussion.

Or is this global corruption, some international cabal of evil policemen?

And for the record, Im not saying that cops are perfect (I think ive stated several times that I think that PDs will have more corruption in big cities, as will everything else), but I dont think theres some top down national level of corruption as is being claimed.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Grumbleduke]

Except that rests on the assumption that he knew it was the police. On the evidence available (particularly given the second article I linked; read the three paragraphs starting "To buy what Storie is pitching...") there is considerable doubt about that. If we don't assume that, we get the following scenario:

* Unidentified individuals have broken into your house early in the morning.
* Last year two of your relatives were murdered during a break-in.
* Your wife and child are in the house, and otherwise helpless.
* You have a firearm, and are trained in how to use it (hence keeping safety on etc.).

Do you A) lie down on the floor, running the risk of you and your family being killed, or B) Clearly indicate to the intruders that you are capable and willing to defend yourself. So, there are two sides to this story (as there are to most) and naturally we've both picked the one which favours our respective positions. Interestingly, if you replace the words "SWAT team" with "intruders" and "officers" with "thieves" in the italicised part of your quote, you would arguably have an heroic story of a man defending his family and home.

However, the fact that they killed him isn't really the corruption point. These things happen, particularly when throw firearms at law enforcement and the general public. The corruption comes from the cover-up and the blatant lies; lying about him firing at them, getting the warrants sealed once complaints were raised (under the pretence of protecting innocent lives), the alleged attempt to smear the 'victim', the doubt over the police's claim about approaching with sirens etc., and the double standards concerning the release of information.

I don't know about the US, but in the EU (or within the Council of Europe) there's this thing called the "Right to Life" (under Article 2 of the ECHR). It doesn't say that the state can't kill people, but it does mean that if the state does kill someone, there needs to be a full and open investigation. In this case, someone *was* killed by the state. Now, it may well be that it was "accidental", that the SWAT team acted reasonably, or that the 'victim' acted unreasonably and it was his own fault... but until it is investigated, there is know way of telling.

Imho, the corruption that is a significant problem here is comes from the police's attitude that they can do no wrong, or at least cannot admit to doing wrong - and they should take whatever steps they can (such as sealing files, launching smear campaigns, lying; at least 2 factual inaccuracies were identified in the article) to protect them and their colleagues.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Nyder]

Who would they hire as replacments?

I'm not an idiot, but I don't want to be a cop. You don't. I think the job attracts that sort so maybe it should be eliminated...

Everyone.

Stop hiring people who want to be cops, because it's usually because they want power, not because they want to actually help people.

Let's say we changed how we did stuff, like make everyone work 20 hours a week for the government, and part of that work could be doing police work. There's a lot of work that doesn't need trained officers, that would be better handled by people in the community. People with military training, and proper police training would be eligible for the gun carrying harder stuff.

I'm not going to go on, but the way society is today, we'd be fools not to change how we do our government, build in check and balances so no one can have total power. Everyone answers to someone, and never to the same people all the time. No life long political positions, no fucking over anyone to get rich.

But ya, socialism is such a bad word, and before you bust out past examples of it not working, understand the difference between the past and what I am saying. WE PUT IN CHECKS & BALANCES SO NO ONE HAS TOTAL POWER. While I believe that man is on the whole, mostly good, man is also greedy, and we have to plan against that greed, instead of how we do it currently and reward that greed.

Oh ya, just so you understand, your other 20+ hour week can be working for whatever you want. So ya, you can still be a pro football player, as long as your doing your 20 hours of required gov work.

I got this shit figured out, somewhat, too bad no one is willing to change, and would rather risk that everything is okay, then make sure everything will be okay.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Hork_Monkey]

At that point you are an accomplice to the crime.

That's just ignorant. I can see that you've never worked as an auditor? You can't catch everything. You can only mitigate risk. There's a big difference between not detecting activity and being an accomplice to it.

It sounds like you automatically assume that if someone didn't identify the activity, you automatically assume that they are turning a blind eye to it. Even been cheated on, lied to or manipulated? By your logic, you would be responsible for the other person's actions.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a fucking idiot? It seemed pretty obvious that he has sons and daughters.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

You're just going to shit your pants when you find out that some people carry concealed weapons.

Does your husband ever let you go out of the house?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Belial6]

Your an idiot. I specifically said

and you witnessed your co-working embezzling

. Try again.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[RockDoctor]

Regarding the DNA, with this being middle America - "below the Bible Belt" you could describe it - most of them will know that because "Evilutionists" claim that DNA contains evidence of evolution, then it must all be lies anyway. So there's no problem with managing the evil-utionist technique to make sure that it produces black and white evidence of evil and good.

And of course they'll get a blessing on their Sabbat.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

and/or very small values of 5.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[cavreader]

Did you not read me previous posts where I mentioned that the government agencies with the capabilities needed to track down threats actually need a serious threat in order to justify using their resources? The Lulz script kiddies are hardly a threat worthy of using substantial assets to track down. The Lulz morons identified so far were identified by the first tier of the local government agencies responsible for dealing with Internet crimes. And another hacking group outed some others just for the hell of it. Lulz has used LOIC tools made by someone else to enable and army of 13 year olds into playing "super hacker". Their SQL injection attacks have only been successful due to sloppy programming and poor system administration, and one of their Sony attacks exploited a bug in Apache that was patched over 16 months ago, a bug Lulz did not discover or figure out how to exploit themselves. And if Sony has not shit canned everyone in their IT department from the CIO down to the person managing the system backups they are just asking for further problems. And why don't you take a look into the ThinThread system and it's offspring and see exactly what type of capabilities the NSA is capable of using.

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[_0xd0ad]

No. For exact values of 2, 2 + 2 equals exactly 4, and 4 is not a small value of 5.

Unless you were doing something other than rounding to the nearest integer. But why would you be doing anything other than rounding to the nearest integer?

Re:The cops who wrote those emails should be fired

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking about becoming a cop, but I decided to go on and finish High School instead.

Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Xemu]

Stop glorifying criminal acts. What these people calling themselves Anonymous are doing are crimes. As IT professionals and geeks, we do not endorse crime. We hate crime.
I find it is absolutely horrendous that crime seems to be regarded as justified by some, just because it is IT crime. Crime is crime--if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting. Crime is not OK.
Stop crime!

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop crime? Start with the actions of law enforcement individuals themselves

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[royallthefourth]

if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting.

Gotcha.
*votes for Obama*
*stands by helplessly as wages fall while the government demonstrates its only competence to be launching cruise missiles*

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a hint: not all laws are just, and not all laws should be obeyed.

Part of the reason the police are so effective is they have no problem breaking the law to see their goals met. Is it illegal to retaliate against the police in this way? Certainly. Is it immoral? In my opinion, not by a long shot. This isn't restricted to "cyber-crime" either. If a cop murders someone unjustly and gets away with no punishment (like usual), do I shed a tear if his victim's family takes his life in revenge? Of course not.

The concept of justice transcends law.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

Speak for yourself, geek. Crimes are what government deems illegal, not what is morally right or wrong. Some (not you, clearly) prefer to re-evaluate and challenge the integrity and sense behind laws, especially those that do more harm than good.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure if it was intentional but it seems as though you've stumbled upon why this is happening. If voting was that effective to create change the state of things would flux wildly on a regular basis. Instead we get a steady decrease in standards and a steady increase in laws and nothing up top ever changes, save for the constant decline in liability and the level of concern to conceal foul deeds. These are pretty much the precise ingredients required to incite the public to rebel, riot or otherwise "fight back." Unfortunately the bread and circuses are working very well for most of society, so, without a critical mass of people ready to storm the capital with pitchforks in hand we have a very small handful of dedicated individuals doing whatever they possibly can. Voting doesn't work--and that's even if you believe that voting is even real on the higher level of this supposed democracy.

In theory I agree with you whole heartedly, I'm sure everyone here does...in theory. Communism also works, in theory.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Inda]

I would like to vote against crime, as I hate it too, although I don't fancy entering your country to do it. Voting in my country is a complete waste of time because the Lords and Elite do not, and can not represent my wishes.

Your police have a nasty habit of shooting "fat black bitches" and anyone else that they feel needs the "criminal cure". Are you going to stick up for them?

Who polices the police? Anon have stepped up to the plate and they should be welcomed as no one else is brave enough to do it.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Hijacked Public]

I obviously don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect if everyone had pulled the lever for McCain your last line would remain the same.

Or if it had been Clinton in Obama's place, or any of the republicans who's names I don't recall.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[sadness203]

Or any politician whatsoever. And it's not limited to USA.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[royallthefourth]

I wasn't quite clear enough, but that's exactly my point. Obama (and the Democratic congress) has been indistinguishable from Bush and the Republican congress. People vote for either of the electable choices and get the same result; the system is completely broken. It shocks me that anyone suggests participating in American electoral politics as a way of making a dent in anything.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous is stopping crime, starting with the criminals in power.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[flaming error]

Not sure if this is intended to be funny.

If not, I take it you are no supporter of Mohandas Gandhi.

"Crime is not OK" is a terribly naive statement. Often it is the law itself that "is not OK."

When voting doesn't work, those who "want to change society" have three choices:
  1) submission to tyrants;
  2) civil disobedience;
  3) armed insurrection.

Which of those you find more "OK" is up to you. But breaking a law may often be more honorable than submitting to tyranny.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Attila Dimedici]

if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting.

Gotcha. *votes for Obama* *stands by helplessly as wages fall while the government demonstrates its only competence to be launching cruise missiles*

And right there is your problem. Someone says that if you want to change society, vote and your thought is the only office that makes a difference is that of President. When, in fact, you can cause greater change by changing who your Township supervisors are, or your state legislator, or your Congressman. Changing things does not happen in 4 years or 8 years, it takes a long time.
As an example, in England, William Wilberforce began working towards the abolition of the slave trade and of slavery in 1787, Parliament did not outlaw the slave trade until 1807. Slavery was not abolished until 1834, just days before his death. Changing things takes time and commitment, not just showing up at the ballot box every four years.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Asic Eng]

It shocks me that anyone suggests participating in American electoral politics as a way of making a dent in anything.

It is a way of making a dent, but a system which is badly broken can't be fixed in a single election. Just voting isn't enough for that either - you really need to get into the parties and reform them, or build alternatives to them. Which would take decades.

Note though: there is no alternative to doing that. Even if you had a revolution suddenly - at best you'd get a better election system and maybe all lobbyists thrown in jail, but you'd still need to build working democratic structures, you'd still need to find halfway decent representatives.

So you might as well start now: vote in the primaries, vote in local elections, stand for political positions or support decent people who do.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[shoehornjob]

That's it go hide your head in the sand. Essentially what you're saying is that it's allright for the police (who we trust to enforce the law justly without malice) to act like a bunch of stupid racist pigs. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. if groups like Lulzsec and Anonymous instill fear in law enforcement and corporations then they serve a purpose. You or I could not do that by ourselves.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[betterunixthanunix]

Hm...I sense a Gowdin moment about to happen.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[AngryDeuce]

Crime is crime--if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting.

Given the nature of our government today, I'd be willing to argue that the crime is far more effective. Especially considering that we're stuck in a two party system and the cost of mounting an effective campaign is much too high for any real independents to ever win without aligning themselves to one of the two parties and toeing the party line.

Change from within is not going to happen because the only people that have the power to change the system directly benefit from the way it is now. If Anonymous forces the government to clamp down and turn the US into a corporate controlled police state, and that drives more people to fight the state because of it, then the end goal has still been achieved.

Preaching for change through democracy nowadays is about as effective as preaching for change in business by "voting with your wallet." The companies most often complained about are now so large, and have access to such cheaply made goods, that in order to be effective the boycott would have to be on a scale that's almost impossible to achieve, and that ignores the fact that in large swaths of the country there aren't even any realistic alternatives (unless you consider driving 40 minutes past your local Walmart to find a non-Walmart grocery store a realistic alternative, for instance). Ditto for the ISPs that hold local monopolies. Ditto for Big Oil which holds the U.S. by the balls.

Either way, being accused of criminal acts by a government that routinely engages in it's own criminal acts against, not only it's own citizenry, but the world at large is certainly some God-tier state-sponsored trolling. They must be in it for the lulz, too...

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[1s44c]

if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting.

The politicians are all corrupt and in the pocket of big business. The really stupid people form a big enough voting block to ensure that nothing really changes. The differences between all major political parties are tiny, none want real change but they will lie about it to get votes.

What can voting change when you are out numbered 49 to 1 by people who will vote for whoever spends the most on marketing?

How can any fairer system of proportional representation ever get put in place when whoever is ruling have a vesting interest in keeping it out?

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[IgnoramusMaximus]

Changing things takes time and commitment, not just showing up at the ballot box every four years.

That is why most people see a 60-year "investment" to change things "within the system" (with less than 10% chance for positive outcome) to be more like something a desperate gambler-junkie with uncontrollable withdrawal shakes would do, rather then a rational being capable of calculating of effort/risk/reward ratios.

This is also why "participation" in this so-called "democracy" declines year after year.

I don't know what the solution to this problem is but clearly neither voting for Bought-and-paid-for Stooge A versus Bought-and-paid-for Stooge B nor "working for change against all odds to die just before anything comes out of it (or not)" for 60 years seem very logical to me.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[AngryDeuce]

It shocks me that anyone suggests participating in American electoral politics as a way of making a dent in anything.

Kinda like the people saying "vote with your wallet", especially as regards ISPs with local monopolies, boycotting Walmart when there's literally nowhere else to shop within an hour's drive, Big Oil...

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[1s44c]

1) submission to tyrants;

  2) civil disobedience;

  3) armed insurrection.

As someone outside the US I'm highly jealous that you lot have option 3. It's a really bad option but it's better to have it then be under the jackboot of a government that knows only they have the guns.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[dkleinsc]

Our police are actually much more likely to shoot, beat, or taze black and Hispanic men than "fat black bitches". Not saying they won't shoot a black woman either, but generally speaking they will tend to view black men in particular as enemies, regardless of who they are and what they are doing.

And obviously a black man has a much worse chance of getting shot than a pretty white girl doing the exact same thing.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[psiclops]

so which of the two puppets do i vote for to get change?

run myself? third party?
sorry but the US political system is so extremely flawed that it is impossible for anyone other than reps of the two main party's to get a position of power. and will remain that way until something drastic (as in far more drastic than anything that's happened in the history of your country - including the civil war, cause same circumstances now that wouldn't happen.)

yeah australia's also pretty much stuck with our two puppets but at least with preferential and mandatory voting(the two things that i believe make our system the best in the world*) there's some sort of hope for change.

as an aside revolutions are sometimes necessary(that's the whole purpose of the second amendment, when i realised this was the reason for it i changed my stance completely), and i feel a major global revolution brewing quite possibly a failed one, but time will tell.

*i don't actually know a whole lot about every other system. feel free to enlighten me :)

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[dyingtolive]

And yet there are so many of us who would happily throw that option away. Mind-boggling.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

As though "voting with your wallet" isn't automatically voting for plutocracy...

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the problem, they're not.

If they want to do something really productive, they'll come up with a genuinely clever way to break the stranglehold our largest media companies have on our culture. And I don't mean DDoS Sony's website. That does exactly nothing.

Maybe channel that technical know-how into a tor+torrent type technology that actually works well and allows the free, safe and easy dissemination of all content, big or small. I don't know. But then, I'm not the one with lots of time on my hands.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[cavreader]

I know why don't we just start an armed insurrection against the government? Last man standing makes the rules. Survival of the fittest personified. The US public is better armed than the US military when it comes to ground fighting and would make those amateurs in the middle east look like a woman's knitting group. Or on second thought maybe people could just stop blaming all their problems on the government and start taking responsibility for their own lives instead of standing around constantly moaning and bitching about all of the inequities in life.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Attila Dimedici]

Well, then I guess you just have to live with the world that other people are willing to put in the effort to create. BTW, William Wilberforce died just after his efforts were fully successful and he had already changed the world for the better by getting the slave trade outlawed years earlier. The thing is, if you are working for change because it benefits you, you are no better than the people who "bought and paid for" the politicians. On the other hand, if you are working to make the world a better place, what does it matter if you live long enough to actually experience the new world you worked to help create?
There is no other solution. Either you are willing to work as hard and long as it takes to make the change, or you have to live with the world created by those who are.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[GameboyRMH]

The US government is under little threat from mere handguns or even assault rifles. They have tanks, attack helicopters and UCAVs.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[petermgreen]

And that is the root of the problem. In a first past the post democracy "you only have two realistic choices, choose the one you hate least" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially when both sides are well known for breaking their promises.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[shentino]

Especially when politicians are willing to cheat the system to stay in power.

Ohio elections anyone?

The game is rigged and nobody can win if they are honest.

Which means only the cheats get in power.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[shentino]

Not to mention that the same big business also has a deathgrip on the media and can see to it that their candidates hog all the air time.

And also that anyone they don't want upsetting their cozy arrangement gets scandalously smeared enough to have the sheeple give them the old heave ho off the ballot.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[shentino]

And also that the corporate run media will keep people that way.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[registrationssucks]

Vote Ron Paul in the Republican primary. He will at least raise everybody's game. Find out if your state has an open or close primary. If closed, you ought to register with party, if open, you can vote in the Republican primary.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[SaroDarksbane]

I think you underestimate how well the US military would be able to deploy such weapons against its own populace. It's one thing to send US troops overseas to blow up foreigners, but it's another to put them in a tank and tell them to shell the neighborhood where they grew up.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[TheCarp]

Whats all this we stuff? You don't speak for me. There is no "we".

> -if you want to change society, you do live in a democracy and are supposed to change it by voting

Um thats nice. I never signed the constitution. Why do I need to recognize your so called "democracy" and weak ass - totally owned - voting system, as "legitimate". I say they ARE the crime.

I openly applaud these efforts to attack the criminals who steal our money for their petty wars on whatever they dislike in the society around them, from immigration, to drugs....what you call law, is the crime.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[TheCarp]

So essentially what you are saying is....not only does his vote not count, nobodies does....because both sides are essentially the same, meaning there really....is no vote

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[scot4875]

has been indistinguishable from Bush and the Republican congress

People keep saying that, but it's not true. While they are more similar than many of us would like, they have enough differences that it's worth voting one way or another.

In 2000, they kept telling us that Gore and Bush were, really, practically the same candidate. Does anyone honestly believe that if Gore had won, we'd be in the position we are now?

They aren't indistinguishable; you have to squint pretty hard to tell them apart, but there are definitely differences.

--Jeremy

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[scot4875]

but it's another to put them in a tank and tell them to shell the neighborhood where they grew up.

Fortunately, they won't ever be told to do that. The guys from Iowa will be shipped off to California where they can blow shit up, while guys from Florida get to go shoot Yankees in the Northeast.

Shit, even cops who grew up in a smallish town are able to adopt an us-vs-them attitude towards the *people they grew up with.* It's not very difficult to envision random soldiers having no moral dilemmas when asked to protect the USA from domestic terrorists.

--Jeremy

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[flaming error]

This.

It works the other way too - Besides having friends and family in military and law enforcement, most civilians just have a general respect for those who'd sacrifice their own safety for the public's.

But all this could change as soon as somebody fires the first shot. Cops/soldiers just might shoot back.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[shutdown -p now]

it's another to put them in a tank and tell them to shell the neighborhood where they grew up.

There's precedence for successfully handling that sort of thing - e.g. in Soviet Union, they would deliberately send conscripts to serve in regions of country remote from their normal place of residence. What more, they would usually pick a destination such that, if there are any known overt tensions between ethnicities, soldiers would serve in an area where they are, by default, not on good terms with the locals. That way, if it came to using the army to suppress local insurrections, it wouldn't be kids shelling their neighborhood - it would be kids shelling a neighborhood of those funny smelling guys who everyone knows are idiots, thieves and generally untrustworthy (and in the meantime, their own neighborhood would be shelled by conscripts from a different region).

And once it's people whom you don't personally know, it's much easier to fool you by saying that they are radical terrorists or whatnot.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[rhakka]

you know, simply making electoral reform a major issue would go a long way.

1. IRV. no more duopoly.
2. Publicly funded elections and campaigns. Give viable candidates a much more level playing field without pandering to money interests. I am not however advocating for trying to hold back private money from campaigns... impossible, really... but strict rules on how that money can be spent will always be necessary.

just those two changes could change the face of american politics significantly within a couple of election cycles.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[rhakka]

well said. very well said.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[IgnoramusMaximus]

No, it is not "you are willing to work as hard and long as it takes to make the change, or you have to live with the world created by those who are." it is "you are willing to live with the world that is the random result of the collision of millions of mutually contradictory ideas and objectives". You are under some wacky illusion that anything we actually do as individuals counts in the big picture. It does not, unless random chance makes it so.

The very popular and utterly laughable delusion of "control of one's own destiny" or its even more grandiose variant "working for societal change" is what lies at the difference of the world-views here.

Case in point: Wilberforce lost. Slavery never actually left, it merely got "updated". In the past the slaves had iron collars on, today they have invisible, electronic ones and believe themselves "free", which strengthens their slavery by orders of magnitude since slaves who think they are "free" never try to break their chains. Instead they work 6 jobs in order to enrich their masters more diligently. But everything important in their lives is controlled by someone else, just like in the old days.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Attila Dimedici]

You know, there is no way to communicate with someone as divorced from reality as you are. If you had any idea what real slavery was like, you would realize how completely asinine and self-absorbed your post indicates that you are.

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[IgnoramusMaximus]

If you had any idea what real slavery was like,

I am sure all those factory slaves living in company barracks and being paid in company scrip that is only valid in the company store - a common enough occurrence throughout the world today - but particularly in the "enlightened" states at the time of Wilberforce's "victory" - would quibble somewhat.

You seem not to understand that the point of slavery is not the "master" being able to whip someone within the inch of their lives for the sadistic pleasure of it and with impunity, the main point is economic servitude. Slaves were - even back then - seen as not merely toys, they were seen as revenue-generating property. And that hasn't changed one iota.

So while true, the iron collar and the whip have gone (mostly) it was only because the "ownership class" realized that they could be replaced by means far more effective and insidious. As to throwing sick slaves who died in horrible conditions in transit overboard or burying them by the dozen right outside their slums - the practice goes merrily on. Daily.

So you can take off those rosy-colored glasses through which most of the very well-off, upper middle class denizens of the West seem to find necessary to view the world (and their own "achievements" in particular while all the while feeling guilty about their insane consumption that requires outright slavery to sustain - hence your guilt about being "self-absorbed" and your attempts at its projection) and stop pretending that anything of substance has changed for the vast majority of the teeming billions of disposable humanity out there.

Also, the "iron collar and whip" type of slavery will be back, even in the so-called "enlightened" states, because that is how fucked-up human "societies" work. They are cyclical and every vicious excess of the past comes back, sooner or later, over and over and over .....

Take a look around the "everything changed on 911" US of A and compare the goings on with some of the measures implemented by the Nazis or the Soviets for a bit of a crash course in how this thing called "history" works.

Then get back to me on being "divorced from reality".

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=7&id=3#article

Re:Put an end to the crime and criminal supporters

[Anonymous Coward]

We tried voting, there is too much corruption in the system for the ship to right itself.

Retaliates?

[Kamiza Ikioi]

Since when does Anonymous not just act because it can? Does it really need a reason?

Re:Retaliates?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Agreed, it just another excuse for doing what they're doing. They would have done this eventually anyway, it's just low-hanging fruit. If they wanted to retaliate they should be going after the British, Turkish, and German police. They probably can't.

If they want to "contribute", then they expose something juicy just to get the public at large: Area 51, Big Oil's hidden secret plans for a highly-efficient automobile engine, DeBeers price fixing scheme, or Berlusconi's love life.

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see you've found something to complain about, carry on.

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it really need a reason?

The reason has been, is and always shall be, lulz. And judging from the samples shown on Gizmodo, plenty to be had.

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are thinking of the lolz group

Re:Retaliates?

[Kamiza Ikioi]

Or as Obama said, the big issues... the faked moon landing and what really happened to Biggie and TuPac. ;)

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see trying to use a meme. Would you like help?

* Help me use more memes, like Clippy.
* Post ironically as Anonymous Coward to an Anonymous story.
[] Don't show this me tip again.

Re:Retaliates?

[David89]

or Berlusconi's love life.

Wouldn't take them long, they just have to turn on Italian TV news

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous = Spread Spectrum
Since when does anonymous = a group you can pidgin hole.

BTW...
I'm not a activist of Anonymous.

Signed Observer

Re:Retaliates?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does it need a reason to need a reason? Your argument is internally inconsistent.

Re:Retaliates?

[GameboyRMH]

Everybody knows about DeBeers price fixing. The executives don't even travel to the US out of fear of being arrested.

Area 51 stuff would be awesome geek fapping material but it's really not in the public interest to leak that stuff. They're not torturing people and laundering money through there (well, probably not).

Berlusconi's love life, everybody knows about by now.

Big Oil probably doesn't have secret plans for a highly efficient engine, and it's already public knowledge that they bought up the patents on automotive-scale NiMH batteries, but that's outdated tech by now.

If I could direct the Anon army to a target I'd say they should go after info from US financial institutions, especially since that idiot Daniel Domscheit-Berg probably deleted the BoA material. Get info from lobbying organizations around the world, lobbying is just a nice name for bribery. Or go after more info on the US' secret prisons where innocent people get tortured and held indefinitely on suspicion of being terrorists (although I'm sure many of them really are terrorists, but you can't just hold them forever with no evidence). That's the dirt that needs to be uncovered.

Re:Retaliates?

[shentino]

They do have a reason.

It's called "for the lulz"

Re:Retaliates?

[jon3k]

Anonymous usually makes up a reason afterwards.

Crime? No, ethics.

[Kamiza Ikioi]

I heard you say the word crime a lot. But technically, what Google does is a crime in China. In the US, media tried to show that Google's Canadian Pharmacy advertisements, which was a crime in the US, make Google look evil. But if you have half a notion about health care, there is a greater argument that it is actually ethical.

What makes something unethical simply because it is a crime? Any idiotic idea can become a crime, like blasphemy laws in Iran. So saying your against crime has to have an underlying ethic of which laws you support, and which you yourself would break under certain circumstances.

Let's stick to ethics, and leave crime to politicians. We can argue the ethics, but really, crime is not crime. Saying otherwise, you validate every law ever made everywhere.

Re:Crime? No, ethics.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, law is not grounded in morality. While I may not agree with what the hackers do, and frankly, I haven't really been paying much attention to it, atleast not enough to pass my moral judgment on them. Commiting a crime does not make one immoral, and being immoral is not a crime.

Re:Crime? No, ethics.

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard you say the word crime a lot. But technically, what Google does is a crime in China. In the US, media tried to show that Google's Canadian Pharmacy advertisements, which was a crime in the US, make Google look evil. But if you have half a notion about health care, there is a greater argument that it is actually ethical.

What makes something unethical simply because it is a crime? Any idiotic idea can become a crime, like blasphemy laws in Iran. So saying your against crime has to have an underlying ethic of which laws you support, and which you yourself would break under certain circumstances.

Let's stick to ethics, and leave crime to politicians. We can argue the ethics, but really, crime is not crime. Saying otherwise, you validate every law ever made everywhere.

Amen to that! You have my vote!

need sauce

[Anonymous Coward]

moar sauce plz

Rosa Parks?

[sidragon.net]

Did she ever act unlawfully?

Re:Rosa Parks?

[webmistressrachel]

What - racism isn't against the law? How about homophobia? Police corruption?

And never mind laws. How do we feel about discrimination of these kinds in general? Now what do we do about broken laws? Do we change them?

How can we prove she broke the law? We look at her emails. Tough luck. If I were living in a fair and just society, based on morale judgements and an actual concept of the meaning of justice, I'd expect to be abe to do this and for her to do the same for me.

As it is, my emails are private, thank you very much, no thanks Sir Sniff-alot, but if the era was ushered in I'd be the first to say this (and volunteer).

Sometimes most of us write things we'll regret, but on this scale and in the hands of a person with that amount of power (and disgusting motivations) we need to remove her.

As for the naughty things I write to my boyfriend using my personal domain, they're embarassing but harmless. I'd consider it a fair trade, if someone needed to check my logs if I went missing in an asteroid... everybody watching everybody's back.

</utopia<

PHUCK DA POLICE!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

ohhhhh yeahhhh....
Anonymous bringz the lulz again, and how!

Of course, messing wid da police,
in Texas,
may turn out to be lulzy in ways the are completely unprepared for.

And Texas had to this with this because...?

[JoshuaZ]

So Bradley Manning is mistreated by the federal government. The BART protesters are badly treated (and the cell phone thing was probably illegal). Topiary was arrested in Britain. Can give a coherent ideological explanation why therefore one goes after police departments in Texas? These emails are full (unsurprisingly) of evidence of racism and corruption. So it isn't like having these out in the open is a bad thing. But let's not pretend this makes almost any sense as retaliation for previous actions against LulzSec or other individuals.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because a local Texas police department is probably, security wise, an easier target than many of the organizations responsible for the actions stated in your post. Even a rudimentary firewall will block much of the malicious traffic sent towards it, as long as it has sane rules put in place. I would suspect the Texas police departments accessed probably also have firewalls, but have gaping holes like not changing the default password (root / root or admin / blank) or leaving all the ports open and every computer visible to the outside world, or even never patching the software so known patched vulnerabilities are easily exploited.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[quarterbuck]

Coherent, No. Response, apparently.
From their post For every defendant in the anonymous "conspiracy" we are attacking two top Texas police chiefs, leaking 3GB of their private emails and attachments.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Ryanrule]

Cuz fuck texas, thats why!

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget, Anonymous is only an idea. Its a persona that anyone may adopt for any reason. As is another idea that they expressed, solidarity.

The people who are torturing Bradly manning, whose double dealings were exposed by him... they have solidarity with the local police. They are allies, they work together. It is one system, an attack on any part of it is an attack on the whole.

Topiary was in Britain, staunch allies and collaborators with the same. The coherent logical explanation is that any person with any desire to attack any part of the system may see himself as having cause to claim solidarity with these same actors. So they do.

Think of it as.... dissidents without borders.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[LordLimecat]

Can anyone give a good explanation for why they went after Nintendo, and Eve Online?

Theyre children with loaded weapons; theres no trying to explain the havok they cause.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[h4rr4r]

Shining light on corruption and racism is havok?
Police emails should be public after X years anyway. Hopefully it costs some of these dirtbags their jobs.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Dan541]

Anonymous are a very poor hackers.
They use an sql injection tool called Havij to probe websites for vulnerabilities. If they try enough websites eventually one will let them in.

It's like breaking into a building by trying the door handle. Sooner or later you'll find one that's unlocked.
For every site they deface there are thousands, if not tens of thousands that they failed at.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[LordLimecat]

Racism and corruption at Nintendo and Eve Online?

Or in the Texas PD, where they would have had no cause to think there was racism prior to a break in? And as for corruption, none of those emails show any, sorry. Sounds kind of like you didnt bother to read them, and just assumed that the summary must be correct (are you new here?)

As for "havok", yes, if you look over the list of hacks over the last 6 months (including The Escapist, Eve Online, Nintendo, a number of Sony divisions, etc), it starts to look like havok. But yea, stick it to the escapist and all their racist, corrupt ways, right?

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Anonymous Coward]

So I take it you didn't actually read the release?

As linked from the post: http://pastebin.com/LGyeLcun

We are attacking Texas law enforcement as part of "Chinga La Migra" as they
continue to harass immigrants and use border patrol operations as a cover for
their backwards racist prejudice. The notoriously racist police state of Texas
recently passed SB 9 and "Secure Comminities" anti-immigration laws. Texas is
well known and hated for being full of Minutemen, Tea Party and KKK groups,
murdering the most amount of innocent people on death row, and giving us the
Bush and Cheney administration.

Then they go on to claim solidarity with Topiary and the Anonymous 16... but also....:

We also call for the release of Leonard Peltier, Mumia Abu Jamal, Oscar Lopez
Rivera, Troy Davis, the Angola 3, and all others behind bars standing up to
state repression. While many of our comrades facing charges and in prison are
innocent, there is no such thing as an innocent police officer, and we will
continue to directly attack the prison industrial complex by leaking their
private data, destroying their systems, and defacing their websites.

Looks pretty coherent to me. They are attacking their chosen enemies, and lending support to their chosen friends. It is no different from a South American revolutionary who has respect for the IRA.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[Bucky24]

With a 6 digit UID I kinda doubt parent is new...

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[LordLimecat]

Then he is naieve for assuming the summary is anything more than a vehicle to express the poster's political views on an event. It is only loosely coorelated with the actual facts of the article, if at all.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[h4rr4r]

Yeah, new here that must be it.
Kiddo, I read the article http://gizmodo.com/5836741/anonymous-roars-back-with-3gb-leak-of-texas-police-chief-emails, go ahead and show me where it mentions nintendo or eve in that.

The emails show misuse of government property. It also mentions two shootings that might very well be murders. Do the emails have to say "Hai Guys, I got teh Bribes from the kkk" before you start thinking it looks like corruption? They might even find some of those, only time will tell.

The first two emails are examples of blatant racism that would be a fire-able offense at any job I know of, other than editor for stormfront.

Re:And Texas had to this with this because...?

[LordLimecat]

I didnt say you hadnt read it because it talks about nintendo, I said that because the 3 emails listed show racism and nothing more (no corruption, unless you define corruption to mean "racist"). You can have a racist cop without it meaning "the entire system is corrupt top down".

Re:You talk about stupidity

[elrous0]

People who are really intelligent know to evaluate based on content, not form. Grammar nazi's, by contrast, are just autistics who've managed to find a dictionary.

So their, put *that* in you're pipe and smoke it.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because a few minor grammar errors puts you in the same league as mouth breathers. Talk about stupidity, look at yourself pedant.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

I sure hope "egregious" was meant as hyperbole here - otherwise, this is like hanging a person for a crime he didn't commit, then calling the incorrect number of turns on the noose an "egregious error."

Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[fyngyrz]

If your(sic) in a situation where you need help who are you going to call? Anonymous or a cop?

Yes, because when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away. And when they do get there, they're actually pretty likely to arrest the victim. I've seen this personally more than once. Then there are these little techniques they use... you're upset, they lure you outside "c'mon, let's just step outside" and as soon as you're out your door, you're arrested for disturbing the peace. Yeah, don't fall for that one. Well, there is a silver lining. They're usually not quite as corrupt as our politicians and judges, and individual cops do a lot less harm than individual politicians and judges.

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[fyngyrz]

Ya gotta love a down-mod for simply telling the truth. Slashdot moderation... hilarious. I read at -1, idiots. Your moderation is meaningless to me.

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[syockit]

Not to you, but it is not meaningless to others. Many read at 1 or 2, so your comment won't get read. Which is not a big deal to you if you never intended for it to be read.

Or is that a whooshing sound I'm hearing because I'm not getting the joke?

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[fyngyrz]

Yeah, I'm just trolling the moderators. Whoever it was was so stupid as to mod down my comment, they probably can't work out how moderation actually works anyway.

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[kilfarsnar]

Get up and get-get-get down, 911's a joke in your town!

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[boristdog]

And when they do get there, they're actually pretty likely to arrest the victim.

THIS.

In the 1990's I worked for IT at a state agency. It was a large state agency and occasionally valuable IT supplies (memory, HDDs, etc. - stuff that cost real money in the 1990's) would disappear. My boss ALWAYS had me report the thefts/missing items instead of her. Why? I'm white, she was black. I don't blame her at all for doing this.

EVERY time I reported missing equipment I was escorted into a locked room and interrogated by state police for at least half an hour. Twice I was fingerprinted. Once they were going to fucking CUFF ME TO THE CHAIR, but I talked them out of it. Because I REPORTED the theft. Later I would be interrogated again and ANY tiny difference between my answers would be pounced on like they were Perry Mason and I was an accused murderer. For a few thousand bucks in missing equipment each time.

The worst part was I was pretty sure I KNEW who was behind most of the thefts. I told the cops to check the badge-in records from the affected areas at the affected times. I mentioned that this person would show up at work when it wasn't his shift. I mentioned his elaborate spending habits (on a $25K salary) and how he would suddenly have lots of money after we would lose $5000 worth of memory. And yes, they ASKED if I or anyone I knew had large debts or seemed to spend more than they earned. Did he even get questioned? Nope. Who always got the 3rd degree? Me. The person reporting the crime.

Law enforcement is fairly broken if these are the super geniuses running things.

Re:Oh yeah... sure... call a cop

[BitZtream]

Have you read your own comment? You sound just like those people on Cops who try to start a fist fight with a cop, then call it brutality and abuse when the cop puts your face in the dirt like you deserve.

You got modded down for being a douche, nothing more.

That police chief will be losing their job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Groups like anonymous don't appear for no reason. They appear because of unrest and anger. They come about due to poor leadership, injustice and general bullshit occurring. Anonymous is idealism that is a new level of borderline terrorism. There's a big difference here... noone is being shot, or killed. They are being exposed for what they truly are and now get to pay the price.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[elrous0]

You must be so much fun at parties.

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[nschubach]

Other questionable content includes the use of homophobic language, and this request for the Texan chiefs to investigate an officer's affair with a married woman. Tax dollars at work:

From: Doug Lauersdorf Sent: Thu 9/16/2010 10:06 AM To: Bob Wieners; Luke Loeser Cc: Subject: Complainant Attachments: View As Web Page Chiefs: I conducted a preliminary inquiry into information received from Detective Price who received a call from Mr. Clements wanting us to know that one of our officers on midnight shift was having an affair with his wife. He also complained that the officer had run his criminal history. I asked KC to contact DPS to research their database to ascertain any person(s) that had ran his information to obtain information from any of the following: CCH, TDL, NCIC, TCIC, SETCIC, etc. The search revealed that the only person with the Friendswood Police Department that had run him was Elaine who had ran the information at KCâ€s direction at my request. This matter is mute until the time comes when he initiates the complaint process and provides us with the officerâ€s name. Sergeant Douglas E. Lauersdorf

I'm just not seeing the homophobic language here. Am I missing something (besides moot/mute)?

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[Baloroth]

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering: if those three emails were the worst they found (true, the first two are kinda bad), then the picture painted is really not all that bad. The email you quoted seemed to be a police officer doing his job properly more or less properly (a police officer running a criminal background check for personal reasons would be corruption).

True, there are a lot of emails to go through, but I rather strongly suspect Anon put the very worst at the beginning (makes sense as a tactic), and if that is the worst they have, then, well, try again Anon.

And that's all assuming none of the evidence is faked, because it's not like email isn't the absolute easiest evidence to falsify (and yes, Anon would do that.) But hey, don't let me interrupt the /. police hating parade.

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was confused too, poorly written sentence I would say. It claims there are homophobic messages, but then in the same sentence references this e-mail about the investigation into an officer's affair. Probably should have been two sentences or at least included the homophobic e-mail.

Cheers

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just not seeing the homophobic language here. Am I missing something (besides moot/mute)?

I think even the mute/moot error shouldn't be a firing offense unless they make a habit of it. If that's the only time it happened then just a sarcastic comment should be sufficient.

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[LordLimecat]

Yeah, I'm kinda wondering: if those three emails were the worst they found (true, the first two are kinda bad), then the picture painted is really not all that bad.

The actual content of the article is irrelevant. This is an opportunity for people to rail against authority as they are so eager to do, so they will take it, whether or not their complaints are valid.

Watch for posts that accuse the police of things that arent even on the discussion table, or bring up judges, and bonus points if they make broad sweeping claims that are unsupportable and unbelievably broad ("the entire system is broken", or "americans are sheep").

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[Andy Dodd]

The homophobic language may be in another email. The first two emails were clearly racist. The one about the marriage affair investigation looks like an actual case of a department doing EXACTLY what they should have. They received a complaint that an officer had run a criminal background check against him for personal reasons - they investigated this complaint. Someone might have misread the email as indicating that the department ran a background check on the guy just because he complained - but they went and looked to see who ELSE may have background checked the guy because he complained about having a background check run against him.

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[Deliveranc3]

Email is surprisingly difficult to falsify. It SHOULD be backed up routinely. From an external standpoint you can fake one easily but if the precinct wanted to verify it they should have a bunch of PST diffs with verification easily at hand.

Re:Maybe I haven't had enough coffee...

[scot4875]

Also watch for the White Knights out to defend everyone and everything related to law enforcement, because they're all good guys and none of them could ever be corrupted.

--Jeremy

We need Anon more than ever.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

I for one am glad they are out there.

Re:We need Anon more than ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto.

Re:We need Anon more than ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed! I'd LOVE to see what anon could do with US health insurance companies.....There is a LOT of information that needs to be brought in to the light of day!!!

Re:We need Anon more than ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as an Anonymous Coward I feel that Anonymous is giving me a bad name.

It's coming

[Anonymous Coward]

See... It's going to happen like this. The law is not going to be discouraged by a defacement and some leaks. And anonymous will in turn start leaking info on informers. Which will get some informants or their families or other innocents killed. Then at that point murder charges apply to all that are part of it.. This is what happens in a game of tit for tat. The law is not that bozo from HB Gary. You can take down the police website, but they will still be out there trying to stop the perv from taking your 5 yr old, giving the accident victim cpr in a desperate attempt to save their life, and making sure your family is reasonable safe. But anon wants to be the prankster... Don't see much difference from the people that call 911 to get a ride to the CVS. It distracts the 98% of good cops from getting their job done.

Yeah there are corrupt cops... but there are corrupt politicians, and corrupt salesmen, and corrupt insurance guys, and corrupt software developers, and corrupt CEOs and corrupt ministers... but that gives the other 98% a bad name doesn't it?

Re:It's coming

[dalias]

With cops, "the other 98%" are nowhere near innocent; they are guilty of covering the asses of the 2% committing atrocities. Although I suspect the numbers are closer to 70/30 or even 50/50.

Let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

"We stand up for free speech, but don't like your message, so we will hack/deface your site."

"We breached government websites and distributed personal information because we don't agree with the policy put in place by elected officials that represent the constituants of the city/state, and even though we have broken the law (which is put in place for good reason), we should not be arrested if caught. We want to have our cake and eat it too. Because we are Anonymous, and what we think is right. If you don't agree with what we think you are wrong and we will hack your site/network/life until you agree with us."

Absolutely disgusting.

Re:Let me get this straight...

[dyingtolive]

I wish I had the kool-aid you're drinking.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[psiclops]

did you ever consider that English isn't everyone's first language.
write a post with actual content in another language without spelling or grammatical errors and hey i wouldn't really give a shit because i'll judge it based on what's important, you know - it's content.

but anyway - way good counter argument you made there - woo i can really see your point. oh wait i must have hallucinated that because you don't have one.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[elsurexiste]

People who are really intelligent know to evaluate based on content, not form. Grammar nazi's, by contrast, are just autistics who've managed to find a dictionary.

So their, put *that* in you're pipe and smoke it.

People who are really intelligent should also understand that snarky, sarcastic, or otherwise offensive responses never help. Why should someone endure a certain "content"? Most people are not *that* important/relevant.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[amaupin]

People who are really intelligent know to evaluate based on content, not form. Grammar nazi's, by contrast, are just autistics who've managed to find a dictionary.

If you can't spell or read, demonstrating your ignorance to others does you no favors. That doesn't mean you're unintelligent, but it's difficult to evaluate content when the form is wrong. Imagine someone you just met ejecting spittle in your face during a conversation because they haven't yet learned how to speak. Sure, maybe their message is fine, but you'd probably rather talk to someone else.

Re:As a Texan, I am miffed

[Anonymous Coward]

Texans as a whole, are fucking retards. Please leave our union and never come back. You will not be missed. Take your obesity, racism, and general ignorant "texan attitude" and die in a fucking hole. Not you specifically, I mean all texans. Please fuck off and die.

Sincerely,
Everyone else on the planet

Does Anon realize

[theJML]

Does Anon realize that retaliation legitimises the captures of those people? I mean, as I see it, if there was a shred of doubt before that these people were part of Anon, retaliation just advertised that the belief was correct and those people are guilty of being part of the organization... I'm all about pointing out corruption and opening up closed doors when there are problems behind them, but keep getting sloppy like this Anon and it's going to be hard to find supporters in the future.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Anonymous Coward]

if i protest against guatanamo does that make me a terrorist? You sound like a fox news pundit... "if you aren't with us, you are against us!"

Re:Does Anon realize

[LordLimecat]

Does Anon realize that retaliation legitimises the captures of those people?

There really isnt any need to legitimize the capture of Manning. When you get a security clearance, and join the military, you take several oaths, and Im sure they make it crystal clear what happens if you violate them.

Its a really sad day when people try to justify members of the armed forces leaking classified materials and thinking somehow they havent done anything wrong. You know, back in the day, it was termed treason...

Re:Does Anon realize

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't prove anything, any more that if I go and commit a crime "because God to me to" proves there is a God, or that he told me to.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Anonymous Coward]

If you leaked the blueprints to the prison so that the prisoners could be freed by terrorists...yeah. Leaking *CLASSIFIED* material is a no no. Protesting a war: "Make Love Not War" is not terrorism. You, AC, are a fool.

Re:Does Anon realize

[biodata]

Since when was anon an organisation? Furthermore, since when did being a member of anon become illegal? Why do you say the arrested people were guilty when none of them have been convicted of anything?

Re:Does Anon realize

[biodata]

Back in the day "I was just following orders" was never a defence for committing, covering up, or otherwise aiding and abetting the commission of war crimes.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Anonymous Coward]

Anon is not an organization. If Anon is really Anon, even Anon doesn't know who Anon is. The retaliation could be just for arresting people who are supposedly Anon. It could also be for the lulz of it even if Anon knows those people aren't Anon. Look at it like this: if some group widely advertise that they are capturing and holding law enforcement employees, it doesn't really matter if they got it wrong and actually at first nabbed someone only dressed up as police - the police will still perceive the whole thing as a threat to them. In any case Anon is not about pointing out corruption or anything like that, it's about the lulz and doing random stuff. The organization you are thinking of is Wikileaks, which is something completely different.

Re:Does Anon realize

[microbox]

It doesn't matter if you retaliate or not -- the captured people are hardly going to be treated fairly. Such is the nature of questioning an authorities cognitive construction. Consider the German spies that walked into FBI headquaters, gave themselves up, and then passed on intelligence of ongoing operations. First the FBI laughed at them, then some bombs went off, and then the FBI executed the spies that gave them the intelligence, in a public display of doing the job.

I disagree with the actions of Anon., because they seem rather purile and misdirected. However, I understand that retaliation is the justice mechanism when courts and law enforcement officials fail. People in power respond to gain and loss. So money talks, and so does loss of reputation. But prostrating yourself infront of the authorities and expecting fair treatment is ludacrous.

Re:Does Anon realize

[HBI]

The public at large knows better. The Anon and its supporters are an insular box. When the prison terms start coming and there is little sympathy out in the general public, maybe people will wise up.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Dracos]

Just about any act can be used to legitimize another act. Whether the legitimization is rational or logical is another matter.

Personally, I think one of these groups should adopt "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" as their slogan.

Re:Does Anon realize

[LordLimecat]

Have you actually seen "collateral murder"? There werent any war crimes in there, there was a friendly fire incident. Even the soldier's banter supports this fact.

Protip, try actually watching the un-edited video rather than taking everything assange has to say at face value.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Darinbob]

This is true I think. If there was any good that Anonymous was doing (possibly inadvertently as a side effect) they are overall doing more harm to their position.

If someone felt that not enough media time was spent covering the protests about a couple of deaths by BART police this situations is not helped. Instead Anonymous focuses on some small cell phone issue and now that's what the media is focused on, not on the two deaths. Phone in calls on both liberal and conservative radio talk shows seemed to be mostly in favor of BART. Only natural since Anonymous pissed off the commuters instead of gaining any sympathetic listeners.

Part of the problem is that Anonymous is just not organized by it's nature. So it's hard to see a difference between an unorganized mob and an unorganized Anonymous action. Other political protesters try to get coordinated, set down ground rules about confrontations with police, and so on. Anonymous apparently just sent out a "let's show up and disrupt things" message.

Re:Does Anon realize

[biodata]

Watched the vid, looked like soldiers opening fire on an ambulance in full knowledge that it was picking up wounded.

Re:Does Anon realize

[LordLimecat]

You must have had the volume down, I distinctly remember them asking for permission to fire on the belief that the perceived enemy was about to be retrieved by allies.

And I dont believe it was an ambulance, I believe it was an unmarked van. You might want to rewatch that video.

Re:Does Anon realize

[biodata]

I had the volume on and it sounded as though they knew a wounded person was about to be picked up by people in a vehicle which was being used for the purpose of picking up a wounded person, i.e. ambulance duty.

Re:Does Anon realize

[Anonymous Coward]

An unmarked vehicle is never an ambulance under the Geneva convention. Vehicles used as ambulances must be marked with the red cross emblem for the duration of their service as an ambulance. Unmarked vehicles are by definition nonmedical vehicles which may be targeted and neutralized.

Appendix G, The Geneva Conventions (PDF), all emphasis added by yours truly:

Personnel protected as medical personnel under the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field must be exclusively engaged in medical duties or administration of medical units. This includes all members of a medical unit, even cooks, mechanics, drivers, or administration personnel. However, this protection is given only if the soldier is exclusively engaged in medical duties. Performance of any nonmedical duty removes the protection, and the DD 1934 must be withdrawn. For example, if an ambulance driver is tasked with driving an unmarked vehicle forward with ammunition prior to evacuating casualties rearward, he would not be exclusively engaged in medical duties and could not be considered or credentialed as "medical personnel."

[...]

Air and ground ambulances will be marked with the distinctive red cross emblem. There is no legal reason why the ambulances could not have the red cross removed and then be used for nonmedical roles. It should be remembered that the aviators and drivers may not do nonmedical tasks without losing their medical status.

If the vehicle does not bear the red cross emblem, it is not protected under the Geneva convention. It is being used in a nonmedical role and is a potential target for opposing forces. End of discussion.

Re:As a Texan, I am miffed

[FlyingGuy]

Well perhaps if you DID take care of the ones who don't play by the rules by firing their asses people might think a bit more highly of you.

As long as your attitude is, "Oh billy Bob, he's just a good ol boy and even if he did beat that fellow a little while he was cuffed to bench so fucking what the nigger had it coming" then people will still look at you like a bunch of red necked idiots that we don't want in the gene pool.

Re:As a Texan, I am miffed

[1s44c]

Does Texas complain loudly when the US messes about in the internal affairs of other countries?

Turnabout is fair play.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

People who are intelligent also know how to assess the credibility of the written word by judging its origin. And for written communication, form is the primary source with which we can judge the author's general education level.

Credibility may not mattter on an open, faceless forum such as this, but it matters anywhere else: job applications, marketing, politics (the real one, not US-style), law. Hence, form also conveys social status.

Last but not least, failure to write correctly is just rude. More often than not, spelling or grammatical errors leave ambiguitites in a text that require the reader to expend more energy to discern the intended meaning of a text. So, even from an economic point of view, it's suboptimal: should the effort of correct communication be with one person (the source) or with many (the recipients)? Assuming only thousand people read these comments (a conservative estimate I might hope), that means the reader's time is a thousand times more valuable than the writer's.

So their, put *that* in you're pipe and smoke it.

classy :)

Re:For the lulz

[b4dc0d3r]

For the lulz, and probably Texas was the biggest system they could get into quickly. There is little need to ask why they do things. It's a mob mentality.

-lulz
-low hanging fruit
-opportunity
-someone probably got a speeding ticket in texas once
-random

Pick one or more things on or off the list above, and there's your reason.

Anonymous are Cowards...

[alex67500]

Everybody on /. knows Anonymous Cowards.

Still need to remain objective on this

[nharmon]

I don't get it. The gizmodo article does a good job to show how some of the e-mails paint a really bad picture of certain police officials. But then it includes this as an example of a "request for the Texan chiefs to investigate an officer's affair with a married woman", and comments that this is "tax dollars at work"...

From: Doug Lauersdorf
Sent: Thu 9/16/2010 10:06 AM
To: Bob Wieners; Luke Loeser
Subject: Complainant

Chiefs:

I conducted a preliminary inquiry into information received from Detective Price who received a call from Mr. Clements wanting us to know that one of our officers on midnight shift was having an affair with his wife. He also complained that the officer had run his criminal history. I asked KC to contact DPS to research their database to ascertain any person(s) that had ran his information to obtain information from any of the following: CCH, TDL, NCIC, TCIC, SETCIC, etc. The search revealed that the only person with the Friendswood Police Department that had run him was Elaine who had ran the information at KCÃââs direction at my request. This matter is mute until the time comes when he initiates the complaint process and provides us with the officerÃââs name.

Sergeant Douglas E. Lauersdorf

Ok, Gizmodo. You were spot on with the other e-mails, but this does not at all fit into your story. For starters, it is not a request, but rather a report. Second, the investigation was on the improper use of police computer files, not the marital affair.

See, use of police databases for personal reasons is a major no-no. And suspicions of such conduct is almost always looked into.

In this particular instance, the effort was suspended because they did not know which particular officer was being accused. Had they known, they could have looked specifically at his search history (for say, misspelled names of the complainant).

Anyway, the racist and other unprofessional e-mails should cause heads to roll. But in this last case I see nothing improper. Except that it is "moot", not "mute", Sgt Lauersdorf. :)

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Funny, I saw that one too and was wondering what Gizmodo was talking about. Looked like a legit internal review of a potential incident. Seemed like a proper example of them doing their work in a professional manner. It's not all about car chases and cracking big murder cases, occasionally you're dealing with the mundane stuff too.

I like the Greater Manchester Metro Police Twitter feed:
http://twitter.com/#!/gmpolice

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Anonymous Coward]

My thoughts exactly. If that article shows the worst of the material, and after all, otherwise what's the point, those cops are angels. And article showing professional and proper use of police time, combined with a willful effort to properly investigate reports of improper police conduct, is deserving of a pat on the back, not condemnation. WTF Gizmodo?!?!?!

This shows a low IQ at Gizmodo - not the police department as one would expect given the headline.

Ohhh burn - NOT! Anonymous, you are retarded - as it Gizmodo!

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[TheCarp]

Putting on my "health care IT" hat....

We have the same issue. In fact, improper access to medical records is the NUMBER ONE reason that people get fired at our affiliated institutions. You think they take it seriously? No way...we take it seriously.

They wait for a report, and then look into it...how do we do it?

You look up records for someone at the same address, red flag. You look up records with the same last name, red flag. Hell I think even looking up someone who lives on your street gets a red flag. We scrape the logs on a regular basis and will soon be doing the auditing live. We don't wait for someone to claim that there is a problem, we find problems before the victim does.... because it is our system and our responsibility.

That is taking it seriously.

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Good point; I'm in the same field.

We also audit staff that access records of patients outside of their area/department. E.g. why would someone in Emergency need to look someone up who has been in the Cardiac unit for a few days? Also we audit access on VIPs occassionally.

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[hey!]

I actually rather like using "mute" instead of "moot"; it's one of those instances where somebody hears a word that expresses a long-forgotten metaphor and mentally substitutes a word that actually makes sense.

"Moot" comes from a "moot court" in which law students debate a hypothetical case. The only point of arguing such a case is to practice arguing; so a "moot point" is either a point that is not worth debating on its own merits (more common), or a point that is debatable (less common).

What the sergeant was attempting to express here is that the facts of this case vouchsafe him no guidance pertaining to further action; the issue does not speak to him; viz., it is "mute". It's a poignant metaphor, and I suspect Sergeant Lauersdorf has a certain poetical bent, sadly frustrated by his choice of career.

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the entire dump, there are very few instances within it that are truly shocking. In fact, the one or two that are standing out here seem to be out of place considering the rest of the material. Most police are decent and hard working just trying to pay bills like the rest of us. The few that end up on YouTube or the like are the ones folks remember. When the police figure out they would be better off without the YouTube celebrities ( IE, fire the obvious idiots instead of trying to protect them ), it will do wonders for their public perception.

The majority of the dump is simple in-house stuff. Details on arrests, warrants, and bulletins. Policies, and an officer or two who have complaints against them that are being investigated. Another officer who was likely looking at being terminated due to his behavior and one or more who were not performing up to recommended levels. Most of it is quite boring to read. Informative to know complaints are actively investigated as well.

A few emails in there are citizens reporting suspicious activity, others complaining about one thing or another. The JSC nutcase was rather amusing to read :D A few are actually thankful for the way the officers behaved and / or their professionalism. ( The guy who received a ticket thanking the officer for not being the complete ASS the general officers are known for comes to mind )

A lot of personal info that shouldn't be released to the public is in there. Names and birth dates of suspects. Including juvenile stuff, home addresses and license plate info. Names, phone numbers and whatnot of various LE types. At least two Visa Card numbers and one gate code to a gated community. A web address and login / pswds ( non functional, yes I tested them ) as well. IANAL but I would guess publishing that info might not be very beneficial to any pending cases against aforementioned suspects. At least redact the private info of your non-targets before publishing this kind of stuff if you want public support behind your ' cause ' .

Otherwise, nothing overly shocking. Very similar material could easily be found on just about any corporate email server.

In other words, nothing really to see here. Move along.. . . . :D

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I was thinking the same. This one looks like the cops doing their job... helping a citizen out against one of their own as far as they can... but they've done all they can...?

Re:Still need to remain objective on this

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, was thinking the matter was mute, meaning no one was to talk about it... :)

Re:You talk about stupidity

[cforciea]

When it comes to language, you can't express content without getting the form right. We just have to guess what you mean, and some of the time we're going to get it wrong.

Jake Davis != Topiary

[GameboyRMH]

Jake Davis was framed by the real Topiary, Daniel Sandberg:

http://www.dailytech.com/Exclusive+British+Police+Duped+by+LulzSec+Into+Arresting+the+Wrong+Guy/article22280.htm

who is probably hiding in a cave right now since all his personal info has been freely available online for some time.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[blahplusplus]

"People who are really intelligent know to evaluate based on content, not form."

The real issue is that people don't take the real world into account. Most people who complain about style/spelling/missing words/grammar don't have any background in neurology and the mind. Once you learn about the mind and how much we are not aware of you learn to take a step back when being quick to judge others.

Many errors in grammar/spelling can't be helped because they happen on an unconscious level. You should all watch the following: http://bit.ly/dYaWUc

News at 11

[DrXym]

Some cops say some pretty tasteless and racist crap in private communications. Is anyone surprised? At the end of the day, any disclosures will be mildly embarrassing, largely ignored or might result in a slap on the wrist.

Does anything think it will do a damned thing to stop arrests of anonymous members?

Re:News at 11

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Perhaps I'm naive or maybe idealistic, but we should hold law enforcement to much higher standards. They shouldn't say this stuff in their personal lifes, much less at work since it reflects very poorly on the force overall.

Considering that the average Mexican or black person in America already feels persecuted by the cops, this certainly will re-inforce the belief. What about cops that are Mexican or black, how are they supposed to feel about this crap?

Not saying that we're not dealing with human beings who make mistake, but hell, they should certainly know better. And yes, I know being a cop is a very tough and dangerous job with little pay. They do deal with the scum on a daily basis.

Re:News at 11

[biodata]

Email isn't private, it is like a postcard. Internet 101.

Re:News at 11

[Anonymous Coward]

Except when it's internal e-mails? Intranet 220 - Advanced Network and Messaging Topologies

Seriously? there's a COP named BOB WEINERS?

[new death barbie]

... no, that's a perfectly good name, Officer. A fine name.

Re:Seriously? there's a COP named BOB WEINERS?

[Brannoncyll]

They probably changed the names on Gizmodo - Luke Loeser doesn't look like a real name either!

Re:Seriously? there's a COP named BOB WEINERS?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Or maybe it's unchanged; here's an org chart:

https://imageserv10.team-logic.com/mediaLibrary/246/11-22-2010_UTILITY_PACKET.pdf

Here's an announcement:
http://www.guidrynews.com/story.aspx?id=1000036630

Names look legit.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[overlordofmu]

elrous0!!!! Hey!!! You!!! STOP RESPONDING TO THE ACs!!!!!!!

Pretty please?

Your first post is being modded up as I type this. You are not losing respect from us when the ACs flame you.

Hell, you are not even losing respect when you respond to the ACs. But you still shouldn't do it . . .

Devolving -

[scumfuker]

I like how the Gizmodo comments devolved into ganging up on someone's choice to post their penis online.

I'm glad something similar would never happen on Slashdot...

Re:You talk about stupidity

[halivar]

You're assuming he gets invitations.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

"Grammar nazi's, by contrast, are just autistics "

Phew, I thought Grammar nazi's were autistic's in you're pipe.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[NeutronCowboy]

And people don't want to reread a sentence three times to figure out what it actually means. Then, there's the issue that if someone can't be arsed to put together a coherent sentence, they probably couldn't be arsed to put together a coherent argument.

Grammar is an easy filter by which I determine whether I should read someone's work. I'm not alone in that.

And finally....

Grammar nazi's, by contrast, are just autistics who've managed to find a dictionary.

You realize that a dictionary has nothing to do with grammar, right? Right? See above for correlation between content and form.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

We just have to guess what you mean, and some of the time we're going to get it wrong.

Precisely. Now if only I could convince my girlfriend of this...

Re:You talk about stupidity

[TheRaven64]

If you write something that is grammatically incorrect, then it makes it harder for people to read it. The same is true of poor spelling, especially for non-native speakers for whom homophones may be difficult to follow. If your writing is bad, then it tells me one of the following:

• You made a typo and didn't notice it. Everyone does this from time to time, and if it's just an occasional mistake then I'll usually ignore it.
• You're writing about grammar and are therefore forced by Eris to make the most embarrassing mistake that you've made for a long time.
• You are not a native English speaker.
• You are too stupid to know how to write properly.
• You do know how to write properly, but you think that saving you a few seconds by writing badly is worth more than saving your readers a few seconds each by writing well.

In most cases, it's one of the last two options. In short, it means that you're an asshat or an idiot. Either way, it's not worth my time to work out which.

Re:terrorism

[biodata]

The cops? I hardly think a few strongly worded emails counts as terrorism, although how their attitudes translate into their behaviour is certainly a terrifying prospect. With 9/11 around the corner it's time to remember what terrorists act like, and stop bandying the word round willy-nilly. Doing things with computers is not terrorism and anyone who is terrified of their information being exposed should just refrain from putting it on the internet.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[shentino]

I don't mind grammar nazis as long as they are

1) right
2) not deliberately being a dick
3) willing to yield to more important problems

Re:You talk about stupidity

[shentino]

Good grammar and spelling are like ECC in a communication protocol.

You missed the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

The original poster essentially said: stop being criminals. But laws are not always congruent with morals and ethics. Sometimes breaking the law is the right thing to do. If Anonymous have exposed this public institution for its corruption, then they have done good for society.

Where is the plunder from the Chicago PD or CA gov

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, anonymous, you guys are starting to smell like you are politically biased towards the Democrats.

When are you going to start digging up the dirt on the Chicago, IL police department or on the corrupt CA state legislature.

I think you guys are just the Democrat's equivalent of Nixon's dirty tricks goons.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

Proper grammar is not a broad indicator of overall knowledge. Anyone who thinks that it is forming opinions and impressions that are not likely to reflect reality. Someone who I witness to be good with language has proved to me that they are good with language.
A used car salesman with great language skills, a clean hair cut, and a nice suit on, is still a used car salesman. None of those adjectives help you determine if he is trying to rip you off or not and have nothing to do with his knowledge level of the car. Substitute car salesman for programmer, manager, tax consultant, hair dresser, insurance salesman, repair man, random /. poster, door to door window salesman etc... If you determine some level of trust or relief because those specific adjectives comfort you, your unfair judgment leaves you at a disadvantage.

Re:Where is the plunder from the Chicago PD or CA

[bussdriver]

False equivalency. The level and kinds of corruption or impropriety differ between the parties, cities, etc. its not equal between the two parties; or locations. Texas is a good home to corruption, Chicago is too - either party.

A group of fairly like minded people - Anonymous - is going to have a bias against Authoritarian groups. Today's GOP is extremely authoritarian, more than Democrats (who are not far behind but they are about where the GOP used to be.) Economic anarchy and Authoritarianism are the GOP direction in the USA (and its increasing in that trajectory;) the Dems are as well but are between the GOP and the center. So in a sense, they do follow along a general trend line when you analyze it. So the left/right line either reflects this trend or is the reason it exists in the 1st place; over simplification causing the results to skew to that limited model.

Learn something; think outside the linear paradigm:
politicalcompass.org

You would not believe

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my funnier tech support stories, I got a call that one of the 911 dispatch computers was running slow. When I went to investigate, I found that the dispatcher had download a virus along with the ovulation calendar that she installed on the dispatch computer. It was funny in soooo many ways.

Job Description: psychopath

[bill_mcgonigle]

If the ones they have celebrate when they shoot someone dead, and believe all minorities are criminal, they'd be better off with nobody at all; if that's all they can do. Otherwise, they'll have to pay more until they attract someone more appropriate.

It's hard to be moral, intelligent, and a Law Enforcement Officer. A Peace Officer, sure, that jives with the Natural Law, but to find people who will arrest and shoot people as needed for selling milk to each other or building guitars - well, that takes a special kind of psychopath.

So, now we've defined a job that only psychopaths will take and then we're shocked when they act like psychopaths. If we want this to change, we need to repeal thousands of unjust laws, and quickly.

Re:Job Description: psychopath

[thePuck77]

It's not just the natural moral response make the job repugnant to ethical people...the psychological evaluation you take when you apply tests to make sure you are both an authoritarian personality type and have low empathy. They are doing this on purpose.

Exactly

[HalAtWork]

That position is just not attractive unless you want to be a bully.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[BitZtream]

There is a major difference between writing well and being a grammar Nazi.

Just for reference, you need to read what you wrote and fix it before talking about someone else's writing.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[BitZtream]

People who are really intelligent should also understand that snarky, sarcastic, or otherwise offensive responses never help.

And you've completely failed to realize that not very many slashdot contributions are intended to help, but are in fact only intended to be snarky, sarcastic or flat out insulting.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[BitZtream]

Irony: It took me about 4 rereads to parse your first sentence.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Pseudonym Authority]

All human language is necessarily ambiguous. Such is its nature. Fortunately, humans also have mental devices such as abstract though, and the ability to determine meaning by context. Some, such as yourself, seem to refuse to utilize those however, making you little more than a computer that relies on strict grammatical forms to get anything close to meaning.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[elsurexiste]

Good point.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[_0xd0ad]

No.

Irony: I read his first sentence perfectly fine the first time, and then re-read it 3 times because you'd had so much trouble with it that I wanted to make sure I hadn't parsed it incorrectly. Which I hadn't.

cmdr Taco has only been gone a week

[Anonymous Coward]

And now we're posting stories with links to Gizmodo?

Slashdot sucks now. I'm out.

Shocking...

[spidercoz]

So this proves what, Texans act like Texans? Color me fucking astonished.

Oh, and fuck Texas

Sweet Christ, do you know what "and" means?

[Anonymous Coward]

Other questionable content includes the use of homophobic language, and this request for the Texan chiefs to investigate an officer's affair with a married woman. Tax dollars at work:

And: –conjunction
1. (used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover: pens and pencils.

You are a shill.

[Pseudonym Authority]

Instead, I watch for posts like your and call the poster a shill. See the subject line.

SLASHDOT GAY NIGGER SPIN!

[Anonymous Coward]

SEE IT LIVE HERE!!!

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming he'd go even if he were invited.

And all the exposing of immoral deeds doesn't....

[Anonymous Coward]

matter. Why? Because Anonymous is a criminal organization performing criminal acts. They don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to exposing evil, they're just as evil as everyone else. If this stuff about this department had come out through other means, it'd be this department that would be the jackasses here. Instead, it's Anon, constant jackasses as always.

Re:You talk about stupidity

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. He has more interesting things going on in his mother's basement.

Where for art thou CNN?

[tingentleman]

Why isn't the foul content of these leaks getting more mainstream coverage? #notWantingToBeConspiratorialOrAnything #hashTagsBoundToBeFrownedUponBy/.