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Sony Attacks Microsoft's Publishing Policies

winston18 writes "Sony's vice president of publisher relations has gone on record as saying that Microsoft is protecting an inferior technology with their policies regarding content on Xbox Live Arcade and multiplatform titles. The comments stem from Microsoft's admission that they reserve the right to deny titles on Xbox Live if they launch on the PlayStation Network first."

29 of 203 comments (clear)

  1. Wait, what did Sony just said by ge7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sony, who is known to pay millions towards Rockstar (with GTA series) and other developers to make PlayStation exclusives and offering them special deals, is saying Microsoft's policies are wrong when they try to fight against this old stupid shit with consoles?

    I guess all the old OtherOS, PSN network hacking and other fiasco wasn't enough for Sony.

    1. Re:Wait, what did Sony just said by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, this is sort of a reverse exclusive. It's an interesting question whether the same considerations apply.

      With an exclusive, the platform/publisher pays a developer $X, or otherwise gives them some special consideration, to only publish on the platform, or at least to publish there first. So e.g. Sony pays Rockstar something to launch first (or perhaps only) on PSX.

      But with this, a platform/publisher punishes a developer for publishing first on another platform, so they say that if you launched on PSX, well then you can't also publish here 2nd.

      What's particularly interesting is that in the case where a publisher wanted an exclusive, they shouldn't object at all to the 2nd one, because it's just giving them an exclusive for free! They don't even have to pay a dev to publish only on PSX, because Microsoft is exclusive-izing the release for them, by refusing to become a 2nd platform for it.

      However the dynamics are a bit different with smaller devs, where this sort of thing can feel like a minefield of blacklists.

    2. Re:Wait, what did Sony just said by myurr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The dynamics of this are also different in that a publisher can choose whether to accept or refuse an offer of exclusivity and the competing vendors are welcome to offer more money to the publisher. In this case Microsoft are simply acting as a bully and attempting to leverage their platform to enforce desirable behaviours in publishers wishing to target that platform.

      If you want your game to appear on the XBox at some point then you have to follow Microsofts rules governing your game on OTHER platforms! That is anti-competitive and morally wrong.

    3. Re:Wait, what did Sony just said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The whole INDUSTRY is anti-competitive and morally wrong, from the basic locking down of the hardware, to having to have all published works go through Microsoft / Sony / Nintendo in the first place.

      If they sell the hardware at a loss that's their problem. Having a monopoly built on top of that should be illegal, legitimate start-up developers are being locked out or forced to pay fees in order to have their games released and have their potential market share and exposure greatly marginalized if they can get a foothold at all (Microsoft have their Indie market albeit with crippled Managed code, Sony have nothing,)

      Somebody needs to drag them through the courts over this. It's ironic that many of the big players today started of by producing unlicensed software on consoles. Remember EA, Codemasters and unlicensed Sega carts? Unfortunately the system is so corrupt today they simply need to play the piracy card and they get off scott free.
       

    4. Re:Wait, what did Sony just said by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 2

      The whole INDUSTRY is anti-competitive and morally wrong, from the basic locking down of the hardware, to having to have all published works go through Microsoft / Sony / Nintendo in the first place.

      The thing is, that's just a general side effect of a free market and contracts. Specifically, the reason the industry has degenerated into three main companies is precisely because of issues like the inherently obfuscation of complex technology and contracts that further enforce that upon licensed developers who would wish to enlighten unlicensed developers, the economy of scale issues to make a profit on open hardware modeled on crippled closed hardware even if there were no DMCA, and the inability for other players to get a real foothold precisely because many developers are so invested, financially, into reaching a large audience they're unwilling to do much of anything to court small time open players until those small time open players become big through many years of being very lucky at getting hit games on their open platform. And once that point is reached, someone can just clone the platform and that small time player may go out of business. I mean, look at the PC industry and what happened to of all companies IBM; the PC might have won nearly all the battles, but it seems IBM basically lost the war.

      If they sell the hardware at a loss that's their problem. Having a monopoly built on top of that should be illegal,

      I disagree. I'm strongly tempted to say I don't think they should be allowed to sell their hardware at a loss, period; except in rare circumstances, like getting rid of obsolete stock, such an action is indicative of anti-competitive dumping in a market. Further, AFAIK Nintendo doesn't as a general point ever sell a console at a loss (which a few rare exceptions when Yen/Dollar fluctuations might have caused that to happen) yet Nintendo, even as far back as the NES was pulling the anti-competitive exclusivity crap with Sunsoft and Batman.

      legitimate start-up developers are being locked out or forced to pay fees in order to have their games released

      The thing is, I'm fairly certain the licensing fees are the least of their problems. The real issue is that a lot of gamers seem to expect $1+ million production games. It's the same issue with movies, really. Video cameras are incredibly cheap now, yet it's not like there has been a flood of movies on the market--even if movie theaters wouldn't show them, the internet would clearly be a place for them; that's because without the expected production value, most people view "indie" films as crap which really limits the non-mainstream movie market to "indie" films that cost a lot or the rare good directed/edited "indie" film that was done on the cheap. Instead, we've see a flood of short, free youtube clips and a flood of short, free flash games.

      and have their potential market share and exposure greatly marginalized if they can get a foothold at all (Microsoft have their Indie market albeit with crippled Managed code, Sony have nothing,)

      Unfortunately, that's life. It's hard having an advertisement reach millions of potential customers so that thousands will buy your high quality game for $1-$5*, just so you can earn enough to prove yourself to MS or Nintendo or whoever so you can make $50* games and be considered a "real" developer. I don't really blame MS or Sony or Nintendo for that.

      Somebody needs to drag them through the courts over this. It's ironic that many of the big players today started of by producing unlicensed software on consoles. Remember EA, Codemasters and unlicensed Sega carts?

      It makes perfect sense. Like above, they started out small until they proved themselves, then they joined the ranks of "real" developers and now are forced into a situation where they have to make big-selling titles to break e

      --
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    5. Re:Wait, what did Sony just said by Narishma · · Score: 2

      Gran Turismo is made by Polyphony Digital, which is one of Sony's first party studios.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  2. Xbox Live by bonch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A lot of developers have been publicly complaining about Xbox Live, calling it too closed. Even Gabe Newell of Valve--who used to work at Microsoft--criticized Live for being too restrictive because Microsoft wouldn't allow Valve to use Steam. Meanwhile, Sony not only allows Steam but lets Valve offer a free copy of the PC and Mac version to buyers of the PS3 version of Portal 2.

    Microsoft has ridden the success of Halo and Gears of War, and the 360 was easier to develop for when people were learning how to work with the PS3, but sales of the PS3 are surpassing the 360 this year, and PS3 developers have caught up. In addition, the poor reception to Microsoft's focus on motion gaming as well as a lack of an answer to mobile gaming signals a diminishing of the their position to third place.

  3. Pot, meet kettle by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't see this as anything other than one giant who uses customer hostile strategies to profit complaining about another giant using customer hostile strategies to accomplish the same goal. Boo hoo, poor Sony.

  4. Microsoft Has No One To Blame But Themselves by VisibleSchlong · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They have been in the console market for ten years now and they still think they can buy/bribe/threaten their way to beating Sony and Nintendo.

    Sony has some 21 first party studios.
    Nintendo has about 10.

    Microsoft has only 3 or so first party studios.

    So Microsoft is forced to play the bribe and threaten crap with publishers since they have almost nothing in the way of exclusive games to compete with Sony and Nintendo's huge first party lineups.

    No wonder they went from distant 2nd place last gen to last place this gen.

    1. Re:Microsoft Has No One To Blame But Themselves by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      They have been in the console market for ten years now and they still think they can buy/bribe/threaten their way to beating Sony and Nintendo.

      Why? It worked on the PC didn't it?

      Thats how the inferior Windows won and how Office beat the better Lotus 123 and Wordperfect. It is why the green screen ugly, slow, 640 k ram limited, pc speaker beeping, single tasking, CLI OS DOS won over the supperior Amiga and Macintosh at the time to dismay over people who had multimedia 10 years earlier.

      The only reason IE still doesn't have 90% marketshare in the US is because other browsers are free. In Asia no SSL is why IE still has 90% marketshare.

      Bribing your way is how to win and what made Microsoft a monopoly by strong arming OEMs and software developers. I think the only reason MS is not so powerful today compared to 10 years ago is because Balmer is much nicer than Gates and they do not strong arm and corrupt things to get their way anymore.

    2. Re:Microsoft Has No One To Blame But Themselves by westlake · · Score: 2

      Thats how the inferior Windows won and how Office beat the better Lotus 123 and Wordperfect. It is why the green screen ugly, slow, 640 k ram limited, pc speaker beeping, single tasking, CLI OS DOS won over the supperior Amiga and Macintosh at the time to dismay over people who had multimedia 10 years earlier.

      WordPerfect was a DOS era product ported to every platform known to man - each with its own little fiefdom within the company. It was late to see Windows as a threat - it was late to get credible product on the market for Win 3.1 and Win 95.

      The MS-DOS PC was positioned as an office workhorse. The natural upgrade path from the eight-bit world of CP/M. Sold with an industrial strength keyboard and a large - readable - 80 column display. It would prove equally at home on the shop room floor .

      The modular design of the PC meant that audio and video upgrades could be easily installed and competitively priced.

      No single vendor.

    3. Re:Microsoft Has No One To Blame But Themselves by bakarocket · · Score: 2

      That's a bit misleading. You say that the PS3 is in last place worldwide, and then you say that the 360 is the fastest selling console right now. Then you make the conclusion that the 360 is increasing its lead on the PS3.

      However, you left out the part from TFA that mentions that it's the fastest selling console in the US. You can make no conclusion about worldwide sales figures based upon the sales figures in the US. You can't just mix data samples like that.

      I don't care about the whole console war or anything, I just like my statistics to be honest ones.

    4. Re:Microsoft Has No One To Blame But Themselves by Xest · · Score: 2

      "No wonder they went from distant 2nd place last gen to last place this gen."

      Except they haven't.

      They're still a clear 2nd place in terms of consoles sold, a clear first place in terms of games sold, and a near 1st place in terms of total profits (thanks to XBL subscriptions etc.). Even the historically very pro-Sony VGChartz.com accepts that the 360 is still ahead of Microsoft in terms of total units sold.

      By what metric that puts them at last place in your world I've no idea, but their strategy has worked.

      Still, Slashdot modded you up because you slagged off Microsoft, even though you're completely wrong. So well done on exploiting Slashdot's idiot group think that mods up what they would like to be true, over what is true.

      The fact is they have beaten Sony, and they did it again with Kinect, shifting far more units and far more games for it than Sony did Move. Sony is enjoying a resurgence with it's price cut, but whether it'll be enough to shift it over the 360 in terms of units sold before Microsoft releases a new console is anyone's guess, it'd take some doing, but you may be right in a year or so's time by that metric I suppose, but right now, you're still just completely wrong.

  5. "Exclusive" Titles should be illegal by msobkow · · Score: 2

    Personally I think "Exclusive" title arrangements should be illegal. But as long as developers can get a premium fee for making their work platform-exclusive, we'll have to put up with the practice.

    Then again, given the shitty quality of some ports, maybe it'd be better if all developer's focused on one platform first and got it right before they tried tacking other development environments.

    --
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    1. Re:"Exclusive" Titles should be illegal by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally I think "Exclusive" title arrangements should be illegal.

      On what grounds? If I develop software, and some company offers me an extra sweet deal if they get an exclusive, you want to tell me that I shouldn't legally be able to accept the offer?

      Why stop with software? Should all companies that have exclusive deals be banned from continuing with those exclusive deals? Apple must sell phones through all carriers? Selena Gomez must ditch her exclusive clothing line at Kmart? Same with Kathy Ireland? Why would clothing or phones be any different than software?

      Dig a little deeper into this, and you find that the suggestion is pretty absurd, even if your heart is in the right place.

      --
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    2. Re:"Exclusive" Titles should be illegal by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      The idea to ban exclusives deal with anti trust laws.

      Sure you might get a sweet deal, but the point is it hurts consumers who want to play the games and are stuck without buying 3 different consoles because of agreements by the makers to limit compeition. The other argument if one console starts winning like Nintendo did earlier than you no longer get such sweet deals and if anything you have to pay them for the privledge to develop. It serves your best interest as a developer to have heavy competition too as all three companies would fight over you and your product.

    3. Re:"Exclusive" Titles should be illegal by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Are you seriously suggesting forcing developers to develop for multiple, independent platforms?

      No, he's not. He's suggesting to force developers to not take money for developing for a single platform only. If a developer targets a single platform for reasons other than someone paying them, that's okay.

    4. Re:"Exclusive" Titles should be illegal by vux984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you seriously suggesting forcing developers to develop for multiple, independent platforms?

      No he didn't suggest that at all. So the rest of your argument is irrelevant.

      All he said was the console manufacturer shouldn't be allowed to pay a developer to prevent them from releasing on another console.

      If the console developer doesn't wish to release on a particular platform that's entirely up to the developer. He just can't accept a bribe from the console manufacturer to help him to come to that decision.

  6. Re:Customer Hostile...Sony? by Omnifarious · · Score: 2

    Yeah, and then they remove features after they've sold you the hardware, and it's fatally crippled by insane DRM that treats you as if you're a suspect instead of the device's owner.

  7. Console Gaming will decline anyway. by Salvo · · Score: 2

    Console Gaming is on the decline anyway.
    While the PS3, XBox360 and Wii are great systems on their own, Sony, Nintendo and even Microsoft are still dinosaurs of the Gaming industry.

    PS3 sales have been inflated by the fact that it was the best value BluRay Player on the market for years. Now, sub-$200 BluRay Players are making the $400 PS3 look more like the niche product that it is.

    While the Kinect has boosted XBox sales almost as much as the Red-Ring-Of-Death did, it is still a fad. People are using their Kinect for niche tasks like 3D-imaging rather than gaming. The Kinect was one of Make:Magazines most Hackable Gadgets, and that could a major factor in driving sales of what is still a niche product.

    Wii Fit has made the Wii the "housewife's second-best-friend" of gaming consoles and has inflated sales as well. Once again, it is turning out to be just a fad. It is the most consumer-friendly gaming console of the big three, which explains it's much higher sales figures, but it is still of limited appeal to the average consumer.

    While their always will be Dead-beat stoners who spend their profits from their hydroponic operation to continue buying XBox's and PS3, as well as high-pressure professionals who want some mindless downtime when they get home from work, Console gaming is not where it's at at the moment. I doubt their will be much of a Console Gaming comeback in the future either.

  8. Little fucking late by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    Sounds like sony is just sucking sour grapes. its perfectly fine when they do under the table deals to keep publishers from releasing multiplatform games sometimes up to a year later but no one else.

    You lost this race sony, quit making excuses for your own doing. You have a white elephant that was more expensive than a neo-geo, took years to get your cost down, bet on blu-ray that most people dont give a shit about, took fucking forever to get games out, other OS, and the psn CC leak

    yea its Microsoft's fault, and that had a what 90% failure ratio?

  9. Minecraft? More like Microcraft! by DJHeRobotExVV · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll explain the title of my post towards the end. Regarding the two digital-distribution marketplaces that Microsoft maintain, however, Microsoft are so schizophrenic with regard to how they operate both XBLA and XBLIG that it's rather stomach-churning.

    The fact of the matter is that when the Xbox 360 originally came out, you would see maybe 1 to 2 titles every 1 to 2 weeks released on XBLA. XBLA was touted as the way for smaller, more "indie" development houses to develop games on the X360 platform without having to deal with all of the ins and outs of manufacturing, distribution, and more restrictive technical certification requirements that come with a disc-based game. Microsoft were highly selective over the titles that would be released on XBLA, and for good reason - they needed an online marketplace with many "strong" titles and few "weak" ones.

    After so many "indie" development houses complained that they were not being allowed to market such obvious smash hits as "Try Not To Fart" or "Controller Vibrator 2000" - note the intended sarcasm - Microsoft created the XBLIG marketplace, touting that as the new place for smaller, more "indie" development houses to put games onto the X360 platform.

    This went well for perhaps 6 to 12 months, with a few particularly good indie games making their way to the top of the XBLIG charts, and all of the undeserving fluff and blatant cash grabs fell to the bottom of the pile, at which point the wheels fell off. Microsoft felt the need to take things in a third direction, now choosing to "upgrade" specific XBLIG dev houses to XBLA contracts.

    In doing so, they signed the death warrant for both XBLA and XBLIG. Removing the more polished indie dev houses from the XBLIG marketplace ensured that XBLIG continues to play second fiddle to XBLA, but more importantly, it means that the XBLA marketplace is now flooded with "lesser" games that would otherwise have remained on the XBLIG marketplace (and for good reason). Now, it is much more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on the XBLA marketplace, and there is no wheat on the XBLIG marketplace.

    Despite all of this, Microsoft insist that they are "top dog" regarding their digital marketplaces, to the point of taking blatant advantage over dev houses they perceive as "smaller" when those dev houses come a-knocking to try to get their games released on XBLA. In the case of Minecraft, the sad fact is that the Xbox 360 is the only console (handhelds excluded) on which it will be released, specifically because Microsoft forced Mojang into an exclusive contract. The entire matter is sickening.

    1. Re:Minecraft? More like Microcraft! by ArundelCastle · · Score: 2

      Eh?

      specifically because Microsoft forced Mojang into an exclusive contract.

      I'm reasonably certain that Mojang is wealthy enough that nobody forces Markus into nuthin'. The man wants to settle legal disputes with Bethesda in a Quake 3 match. What the hell kind of power do you think Microsoft has over him, with their 25 million users that can't even plug in a mouse? He's outsourcing the port, it's not even important enough to handle internally!

      From Notch's August 30th blog about why MC is not going to be on Steam:

      We are talking to Valve about this, but I definitely understand their reasons for wanting to control their platform. There’s a certain inherent incompatibility between what we want to do and what they want to do.
      So there’s no big argument, we just don’t want to limit what we can do with Minecraft. Also, Steam is awesome. Much more awesome than certain other digital distribution platforms that we would NOT want to release Minecraft on.

      I have purchased several XBLIG, and I enjoy the little snippets of time I steal away to check out the offerings. But I recognize it for what it truly is to individual developers. A "published" line on a resume, a demo reel, and a big foot in the door to getting on Steam. Minecraft is now too big for Steam (but probably not their future games), so I'm pretty sure Mojang is not being bullied by Microsoft. You're full of crap, but it's probably just bitterness. Go channel that into a new game and it might be interesting.

  10. Where did you get those numbers? by supersloshy · · Score: 2

    They have been in the console market for ten years now and they still think they can buy/bribe/threaten their way to beating Sony and Nintendo.

    Sony has some 21 first party studios.
    Nintendo has about 10.

    Microsoft has only 3 or so first party studios.

    Woah, wait a second. Where the crap did you get that? Wikipedia says that Sony has sixteen first-party studios, Nintendo has eighteen, and Microsoft has eleven. Some of the games that are made by studios like Level-5, Next Level Games or Insomniac are actually second-party studios that are not directly owned by the companies they collaborate with (especially Level-5, who releases games pretty much everywhere).

    I don't know where you did your research, but that's REALLY misleading (and a little biased towards Sony, there). Microsoft publishes quite a bit of first-party content, even though it's not as much as Sony or Nintendo (especially Nintendo, even more so if you count their HUGE list of second-party studios).

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  11. Re:Customer Hostile...Sony? by devleopard · · Score: 2
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  12. Holy Crapping Crap!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a former console developer I would like to know what that Sony asshat is smoking.

    The SPUs, which have considerable processing power, do not make up for the rest of the crappy architecture of the PS3.
    The OS is crap, the GPU is crap, the APIs are crap (except for gcm) and the security is crap. I was the guy who wrote the graphics engines and a lot of the SPU code (for the devloper I worked for) and I can tell you that the PS3 is a boat anchor for cross platform developers.

    Here's an example; The SPUs seem very fast at 3.2GHz compared to the VUs from the PS2 at 300MHz. That is until you actually try to do anything like multiply a vector by a matrix. PS2 could do it in 4 cycles dispatch, and 3 additional cycles latency. So you could do vector times matrix every 4 cycles in a tight loop. PS3 needs at least 10 cycles dispatch with a total latency over 50 cycles. If you really bust your ass interleaving loops you can get down to 15 cycles or so per vertex because Sony forgot both masked writes and broadcast math in the SPU architecture. Idiots, it was there in the PS2! Where you high when you signed off on the SPU design?
    I could spend hours ragging on the design of the PS3 but I'll just say Sony really dropped the ball on the PS3 design as a whole. While it stomps the 360 on total CPU power it's much easier getting the games where you want them on the 360.Why should anyone develop for the PS3 when it costs at least double for the same finished quality?

    I'm glad I don't have to deal with their shit any more.

  13. It's fairly normal in retail by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you go and tell Target that you'll sell them something exclusively for awhile before you sell to other retailers, you may well find that Walmart, Best Buy and so on blacklist you. They don't like you trying to give a competitor an advantage so they'll say "Ok you want to go exclusive with them, you do that, but it is a permanent thing. We aren't going to let you give them a boost, and then give yourself a sales boost by using our store space."

    Same shit with pricing. You generally can't give highly preferential pricing to one retailer or the others will retaliate.

    Remember: It is 100% your right to determine who you do and do not wish to sell to. However it is 100% the stores' right to determine what they do and do not wish to stock. If you do something that they believe hurts them, they are within their rights to tell you to fuck off.

    Similar deal here. If Sony bribes you to release your content first on PSN, ok that is their right, and your right to accept the deal. Nobody is going to say you can't. However MS is not then interested in carrying your product. They don't want you trying to boost Sony's platform by releasing there first, and then to improve your sales by going to MS's market later.

  14. Corporations in glass houses, Sony... by Trilkin · · Score: 2

    Just saying.

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  15. Sony V Microsoft grudge match: GO! by symbolset · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The best we can hope for is "no survivors".

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