E Ink Demos New Displays, Gadgets At IFA 2011

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E Ink Demos New Displays, Gadgets At IFA 2011

Posted by Soulskill on Monday September 5, 2011 @06:09PM from the dead-tree-salvation dept.

An anonymous reader writes "E Ink turned up at IFA 2011 with its Triton color e-paper, which has exactly the same properties as the monochrome version found in the Kindle (two-month battery life, no power use when viewing a page, as readable as a sheet of paper) while adding 4,096 colors. We also get to see the E Ink watch, signage, cellphone and USB stick displays, and the latest glass-less e-paper inside a credit card. E Ink hopes to use the new plastic substrate in future e-readers, meaning they will be thinner, lighter, and more shatterproof than those that ship today."

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Just in time... by Sarten-X · 2011-09-05 18:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

Not more than two days ago, my wife (a librarian) saw a color e-reader (using a backlit LCD), and mentioned that it'd be great for children's books. I said that e-ink was probably a better option, because the reader could use less power when a distracted kid leaves it turned on. Now, there's hope for the benefits of both!

--
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
1. Re:Just in time... by toQDuj · 2011-09-05 18:49 · Score: 1
  
  The problem I have with e-ink is the distracting negative flash as the screen resets to the new page. Or when scrolling... or when doing anything, really. Very annoying indeed.
  
  --
  Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
2. Re:Just in time... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2011-09-05 18:54 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The one distinctive feature of children's books is the thick cardboard cover and thick pages, because children aren't exactly known for their carefulness.
  I'm not sure how a E-ink device would fare after a few months of being aggressively fingered, scratched, thrown, banged, sat and vomited upon, especially considering that, unlike a real book that would be used occasionally and then shelved, an e-book would used all the time, precisely because it can display any book.
  
  --
  "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
3. Re:Just in time... by fmrbastien · 2011-09-05 18:57 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  The problem I have with paper is the distracting animation when I flip the page. Or when the wind flips the page... or when doing anything, really. Very annoying indeed.
  
  --
  lernu.net
4. Re:Just in time... by drolli · 2011-09-05 19:07 · Score: 1
  
  Yes that is why i love my sony reader more for ebooks than my android tablet. I am a distracted kid.
5. Re:Just in time... by Zouden · 2011-09-05 19:08 · Score: 2
  
  I wonder if we'll see a resurgence in comic books / graphic novels. There'll always be a market for physical comic books but I think there's a much larger audience out there who would enjoy the stories but don't want to spend the money collecting them. I know there's iPad apps for that sort of thing but I think a colour Kindle is much more appealing, and the 4096-colour range of this E Ink screen would be well suited to the artwork style.
  
  --
  "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
6. Re:Just in time... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 22:40 · Score: 0
  
  You'd be impressed at how well you can protect smartphone hardware with minimal/extreme expenditure. I mean throw-it-at-the-ground-and-survive-undamaged protection. Or use-it-daily-and-look-brand-spanking-new-12-months-later protection. I dunno about the status of aftermarket mods with the e-readers though... it's probably not so diversified.
7. Re:Just in time... by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe they'd be better off implementing it as a wave travelling across the screen, to look more like a page turn in a book.
  The problem though, is that you can't use e-ink for doing much except reading. And I don't mind plugging a device in every couple of days to gain the ability to scroll, have video and be able to implement animation and things like drag and drop.
8. Re:Just in time... by RoccamOccam · 2011-09-06 00:38 · Score: 1
  
  I sat through half of the (long) video to see if this issue was being addressed. No luck. It's not apparent to me what is inherent in the technology that requires that step. Is it just a consequence of the current state-of-the-art control electronics? Can the flash be eliminated in future products?
9. Re:Just in time... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 00:40 · Score: 0
  
  Watching the video it seems that they may have this solved already. The fragile part of most tablet/e-reader devices is the glass screen that's required to protect the screen, the new technology makes that unecessary, the thing is entirely plastic and looks reasonably flexible.
10. Re:Just in time... by elrous0 · 2011-09-06 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Everything my kids own are sticky and beat to hell. It took me long enough to teach them not to even *look* at daddy's laptop, without giving them an expensive tablet of their own.
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
11. Re:Just in time... by sarhjinian · 2011-09-06 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  The problem I have with e-ink is the distracting negative flash as the screen resets to the new page. Or when scrolling... or when doing anything, really. Very annoying indeed
  Some eReaders will only do this once ever n page transitions; I think, on a Kobo, it's once every six to clean up artifacts. It would be nice if it were configurable because it is annoying.
  
  --
  --srj/mmv
12. Re:Just in time... by unrtst · 2011-09-06 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  I respect your opinion, but I really really really hope there are enough people left that do not feel that way that there is enough market to keep the e-ink readers alive when the tablets start dropping in price.
  My g/f has a color nook, and I've the v3 kindle 6". There are some nice things about the nook, but I think anyone using both for at least a month each would be hard pressed not to love the battery life of the Kindle and the readability of the screen. On the nook side, I was quite surprised at how much easier it was to find a book from my library (which is only about 50 books), so I'd completely agree that there is something to be said for being able to easily scroll through a library. It's not often I have to pick a new book or find an old one though, so that doesn't really help the primary use of reading books.
  While reading, I don't want to scroll (and neither of them does, AFAICT). The minor delay in the page turn on the Kindle has not been a problem, and takes less time than turning a physical book page. The color nook was actually worse for turning pages - failing to register finger presses or swipes on the screen, but that's a hardware/software issue, and not the fault of an LCD screen. For reading real books, the Kindle (and I suspect this is the same for all/most e-ink readers) is far far better for me.
  I am worried that the majority of people will drown out the benefits of the e-ink readers with "needs" such as those you listed (color, video, animation, scrolling, drag/drop). As a real world example, a friend of mine wrote a children's book recently, and wanted help e-publishing it. The kindle is just not up to the task. Sadly, the iPad isn't a great choice either, simply because they make it difficult to get a book on their store. We pushed to the nook (for nook color) and kindle (for the PC/Mac/Android/iPad software versions). This color e-ink would really help to bridge that gap in the one major area the kindle is lacking (but I think we're still getting ahead of ourselves... who's going to give an e-reader or tablet or ipad to a 3-5 year old to read?).
  The other color needs would be magazines and comics. There's definitely a market here, but I wonder if it's enough to justify a kindle with color e-ink. As for all the other app support, I really could care less about it. I wouldn't mind some very dumbed down simple apps (email, web browser, calculator, notepad, ssh client... most of which already exist), but I don't need angry birds on my Kindle :-)
13. Re:Just in time... by AJH16 · 2011-09-06 02:02 · Score: 1
  
  It is at least currently a technical limitation. Basically e-Ink displays act like an electronic etch-a-sketch. Partially inked particles are brought (normally rotated) to the surface by electric fields in the device. The flash is basically the equivalent of shaking the etch-a-sketch. It brings every pixel to the full dark and then the full light to ensure they are all properly placed prior to starting the render of the next page. It is possible to skip the step, however it results in a cumulative ghosting effect where the pixels didn't fully reset. Over time this gets worse until you do the full on/off reset flash you described. There has been some experimentation done skipping the process to do animations and then flashing them after. In fact, many of the Sony e-Readers actually do this on their rotating loading animation. Ideally, with sufficient control of the fields, we could reset it perfectly without the flash, but the power to control that precisely might actually be more power consuming than a simple on/off flash.
  
  --
  AJ Henderson
14. Re:Just in time... by AJH16 · 2011-09-06 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed, what people fail to realize when comparing backlit LCD to e-Ink is that e-Ink is simply more comfortable to read on for extended times. I don't really care if my book can play animations. If I want video I have a phone, tablet, laptop, desktop and television for that. I don't need my book to do that too. I need my book to do one thing, let me read books and not have to worry about it.
  
  --
  AJ Henderson
15. Re:Just in time... by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  No, for reading novels a kindle is perfect. I've been tempted to get one for that purpose, but for the amount of pure, reflowable text I read it simply isn't worth it. If it were $99, then maybe. If ebooks were a reasonable price, maybe.
  Where eink is going to get slaughtered is in education. Things like textbooks, where you want colour and zooming and scrolling. And if everyone gets used to using a tablet in school, they'll probably use one when they get out too.
  I think ebook readers are experiencing a sort of golden age. Soon they'll have to drop their prices in order to convince people to buy one in addition to, not instead of, a more computer-like tablet.
16. Re:Just in time... by artor3 · 2011-09-06 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  If they make ruggedized books for kids, why not do the same with e-readers? Wrap the whole thing in an extra half in of plastic, get rid of the keyboard (kids probably won't be adding annotations to Dick and Jane), and waterproof everything else. Get it to the point where it can be tossed in a dishwasher when needed. It'd be a bit pricier, but still probably cheaper than replacing a bunch of dead tree books whenever they get vomited on.
17. Re:Just in time... by artor3 · 2011-09-06 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  They'd first need to come up with a good way to arrange the panels. I've only read one real comic book (Watchmen) but the panel arrangement and relative size is definitely a part of the medium. Replacing it with one panel per page, all the same size, would lose something. And e-ink has too low of a refresh rate to handle pan & zoom well.
18. Re:Just in time... by hedwards · 2011-09-06 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  E-ink isn't ready for prime time when it comes to children's books. TFS itself pointed out that the new paper can only do 4096 colors, which is just 4 bits of color per channel. That's nowhere near enough color to make it worthwhile for children's books.
  At any rate, I wouldn't trust one of these things around random children, they are still fragile.
  But having a few colors would be nice, as with the black and white Nook, I have to rely on luminosity to tell between highlights and regular print.
19. Re:Just in time... by dotancohen · 2011-09-06 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  ...after a few months of being aggressively fingered, scratched, thrown, banged, sat and vomited upon...
  That's the third vomit-porn reference this week!
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2413860&cid=37311048 ....I can't find the other one....
  
  --
  It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
20. Re:Just in time... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 04:11 · Score: 0
  
  I was worried about this when I first got my Kindle, because I'd been so excited about it, and I thought this was going to ruin the experience. After ten minutes I didn't even notice it anymore. I've had it for just over 3 months and read probably two dozen books on it, and I'd honestly completely forgotten that it happens until I saw your post. I was worried that it would break that "trance" you get into when you're reading a good book, but, to put things in perspective, I've found it literally less distracting than turning a physical page.
  I realized pretty quickly how amazing it could be, because I read a lot of epic fantasy. If you do the same, maybe you know how hard it is to hold the already-read pages in one hand and the remaining pages in the other when you're 900 pages through a thousand page hardcover, especially when you're reading in bed. Once your hand starts cramping, you drop the damn book every other page you turn.
  So I guess what I'm saying is, please tell me more about how physical books are the one true path, and a millisecond screen refresh flicker is a deal-breaker? There comes a point where you realize the good old days weren't all that perfect to begin with.
  (CAPTCHA: colorer)
21. Re:Just in time... by gringer · 2011-09-06 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  That's nowhere near enough color to make it worthwhile for children's books.
  Last time I checked, children's books had fewer colours than adult picture books. It's more common to see a few high-contrast colours than lots of different colours.
  
  --
  Ask me about repetitive DNA
22. Re:Just in time... by cayenne8 · 2011-09-06 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  If they make ruggedized books for kids, why not do the same with e-readers? Wrap the whole thing in an extra half in of plastic, get rid of the keyboard (kids probably won't be adding annotations to Dick and Jane), and waterproof everything else. Get it to the point where it can be tossed in a dishwasher when needed. It'd be a bit pricier, but still probably cheaper than replacing a bunch of dead tree books whenever they get vomited on.
  Hmm...if you have children that are still 'vomiting' on everything in sight, and are of reading age...you might wanna give them some medical examinations. Unless you have a child prodigy toddler that can read already.
  :)
  
  --
  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
23. Re:Just in time... by NuShrike · 2011-09-06 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  Latest Nook Touch avoids blanking the entire screen for a few refreshes, before it does the full refresh. So already in production and wide release.
24. Re:Just in time... by nedlohs · 2011-09-06 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe you could teach them to take care of their (and other people's) things?
25. Re:Just in time... by na1led · 2011-09-06 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  I purchased a kindle awhile back for my wife, at first it seemed cool but then it left you wanting more from the device. When video comes to color e-ink then I'll consider purchasing the product.
  
  --
  -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
26. Re:Just in time... by elrous0 · 2011-09-06 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  First, I've got to teach them to wash their hands between when they play in the dirt and eat lunch.
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
27. Re:Just in time... by Your.Master · 2011-09-06 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  With a larger-screen eReader you could just map a page directly to the screen.
  There may very well come a time when, instead of trying to fit standard comic book dimensions, comic books artists try to fit standard eReader dimensions anyway.
  Or, if you write for eReader format in the first place, the speech bubbles etc. could size dynamically so you could have readable fonts despite scaling the rest of the image to fit the dimensions and resolution. You need a square, an ellipse (with mock "imperfections" to mimic the hand-drawn ellipses from the earlier ages of comics), a cloud, and a sort of spiky cloud to cover the vast majority of comic text. I think that's already how comics are made, the trick is to make it dynamically adjustable to the end-user.
28. Re:Just in time... by WNight · 2011-09-06 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  I suggest an airlock-style tiled entryway/shower system and motion-sensor set to discriminate between children and adults by height.
29. Re:Just in time... by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-06 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting points. Or the work could be rendered in SVG to fit any size display and be 100% of what was intended. ie. width='100%' height='100%' viewBox='0 0 1024 762' (where 1024x762 is the "document size" the artist intended).
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
30. Re:Just in time... by sonicmerlin · 2011-09-06 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  If they added a small solar panel to it then the device would never need recharging. I remember seeing a Korean prototype e-reader with a solar panel. I don't understand why no one has released a commercial e-ink device with a solar panel. Make it calculator size so when it sits on a table during the day or even the night it will charge up.
31. Re:Just in time... by hedwards · 2011-09-06 10:21 · Score: 1
  
  Depends, I remember quite a few really dazzling children's books when I was a kid. And regardless of the number of colors used, you'd only get 4096 colors total to choose from, which means that if the colorist used a color that isn't quite right the whole thing looks significantly worse.
  But, beyond that, one of the problems they still have is that the images are about as in color as the Game Boy Color was, technically color, but the contrast is crap. It'll be cool when they solve that problem, but I don't think we're there yet.
32. Re:Just in time... by Phoghat · 2011-09-06 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  I said that e-ink was probably a better option, because the reader could use less power when a distracted kid leaves it turned on. Now, there's hope for the benefits of both!
  The problem with e-ink is that, so far, it won't display multimedia files (video) that a lot of ebooks are starting to come out with. See Amazon
  
  --
  Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
33. Re:Just in time... by Sarten-X · 2011-09-07 04:11 · Score: 1
  
  For children's books, that's likely a significant problem... but cardboard books don't have video, either.
  
  --
  You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Refresh rate? by dudeman500 · 2011-09-05 18:34 · Score: 1

Not too fussed about colour but would be nice to be able to flick through an ebook as you would a paper one
1. Re:Refresh rate? by c0lo · 2011-09-05 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  Not too fussed about colour but would be nice to be able to flick through an ebook as you would a paper one
  LOL. Just from curiosity, since I'm seeing you a tad worried, what is your rate "page-flicks per seconds"?
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
2. Re:Refresh rate? by hack++slash · 2011-09-05 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  I can see screen update speed being an issue when you're looking through the pages of a manual as opposed to casually reading a book.
  
  --
  To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
3. Re:Refresh rate? by wrook · 2011-09-05 18:54 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  According to this article: http://www.e-ink-info.com/fujitsu-shows-new-prototype-color-e-reader Fujitsu is building something based on this and it has a refresh rate of 0.7 seconds. So pretty slow. Other articles ( http://www.e-ink-info.com/auos-sipix-e-paper-now-fast-enough-video-6fps ) suggest that some monochrome panels are capable of 6 frames per second and speculate ( http://www.e-ink-info.com/e-ink-do-not-expect-new-monochrome-e-ink-display-2011 ) that 24 frames per second may be possible in a matter of years.
  So... it's still mostly useful for static displays, but in a couple of years we may be seeing it branching out into other applications.
4. Re:Refresh rate? by dudeman500 · 2011-09-05 19:04 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, i meant a not an .
5. Re:Refresh rate? by c0lo · 2011-09-05 19:06 · Score: 2
  
  I can see screen update speed being an issue when you're looking through the pages of a manual as opposed to casually reading a book.
  Looks like a value of 6fps - at an even lower speed, I don't thing thing browsing a book would create problems (comparison terms: the old silent movies were shot at anywhere from 12 to 26 fps, the standard is now at 24 fps).
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
6. Re:Refresh rate? by jpapon · 2011-09-05 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  Fortunately this is in large part compensated for by the ability to search for keywords.
  
  --
  -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
7. Re:Refresh rate? by wvmarle · 2011-09-05 20:32 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Movies don't have the interstitial effects. Or at least much less so. For a movie 24 fps means 24 frames displayed; the time to change a frame is much less than 1/24th of a second. For a screen like this 6fps means 6 frames displayed, but also implies that the time to change a frame is 1/6th or a second.
  This is also exactly why gamers waited so long to ditch those CRTs and started using flat screens. The refresh rate was too slow.
  Not that I think it's a problem for books (mostly static images), but you can't fully compare it to movies.
8. Re:Refresh rate? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 20:49 · Score: 0
  
  '..when you're looking through the pages of a manual as opposed to...'
  You are aware that those eBooks have a search function so that you don't have to do the searching yourself?
  You also don't have to wet your thumb to flip the page.
9. Re:Refresh rate? by Required+Snark · 2011-09-05 21:58 · Score: 2
  
  Motion picture frames change 24 times per second. However, each frame is displayed twice, so 48 images are displayed each second. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter
  
  A commonly held misconception is that film projection is simply a series of individual frames dragged very quickly past the projector's intense light source; this is not the case. If a roll of film were merely passed between the light source and the lens of the projector, all that would be visible on screen would be a continuous blurred series of images sliding from one edge to the other. It is the shutter that gives the illusion of one full frame being replaced exactly on top of another full frame. A rotating petal or gated cylindrical shutter interrupts the emitted light during the time the film is advanced to the next frame. The viewer does not see the transition, thus tricking the brain into believing a moving image is on screen. Modern shutters are designed with a flicker-rate of two times (48 Hz) or even sometimes three times (72 Hz) the frame rate of the film, so as to reduce the perception of screen flickering. (See Frame rate and Flicker fusion threshold.)
  
  --
  Why is Snark Required?
10. Re:Refresh rate? by xtracto · 2011-09-05 22:05 · Score: 1
  
  With a real book it is trivial to go from the first third of the book to the last third (say "turn" 300 pages) with one go. With an ebook reader it is not so straightforward.
  That being said, I love my PRS-900 and would not change it for a thousand real books.
  
  --
  Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
11. Re:Refresh rate? by drinkypoo · 2011-09-05 22:22 · Score: 1
  
  This is also exactly why gamers waited so long to ditch those CRTs and started using flat screens. The refresh rate was too slow.
  
  Uh no. It took so long to ditch CRTs and use flat screens because of price. That's the one and only reason. 60Hz should be enough for anybody.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
12. Re:Refresh rate? by grumbel · 2011-09-05 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  LOL. Just from curiosity, since I'm seeing you a tad worried, what is your rate "page-flicks per seconds"?
  When it comes to reference books, something like a 100 page flips per second isn't that unusal to find the thing you are looking for. Even a fast ebook display is no better then something like 2 or 3 page flips a second, which is perfectly fine for reading a book, but way to slow for browsing a book. Even your average PDF reader on a PC has a hard time coming near to a real books performance, let alone the tactile feel of it (pages you already read are easier to find again, then pages you haven't touched, thickness gives indication where you are in the book, etc.).
  eBooks have a lot of advantages, I love that the page is always flat, not warped, that it stays open without any extra effort, that you can carry around hundred of books, etc., but the tactile browsing that paper books allows has yet to be matched by any electronic reading device. It's however not an unsolvable problem, intelligent bookmarking, keeping track of which pages have been read, zoomable-interfaces or simply analog buttons for moving forward and backwards through the book could go a long way in either matching or surpassing the experience of a real book.
13. Re:Refresh rate? by AmiMoJo · 2011-09-06 00:11 · Score: 1
  
  Refresh rate wouldn't be an issue for PDF reading if the screen was A4 size and thus there was no need to scroll.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
14. Re:Refresh rate? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 00:27 · Score: 0
  
  What games did not like about early LCD flat screens was the reaction time of the panels, not the refresh rate. The reaction time measures how long it takes to switch from one frame to the next. If this time period is too long, motion does not seem fluid even at 60Hz refresh rate and moving items on the screen sort of smear out a bit.
15. Re:Refresh rate? by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 00:30 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe theoretically, but any existing e-ink display I've seen has a refresh rate of much less than 6 fps. More like 0.5-1 fps.
16. Re:Refresh rate? by Defenestrar · 2011-09-06 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  Since with browsing you're looking at general content and need time to parse the information, 6 fps should be fine. But when looking for a specific pattern match, flipping (in my interpretation: using one's thumb to control the rate at which a group of pages, held under spring like tension, is allowed to turn) is not very efficient at 6 fps as your brain can recognize the relevant information faster than that (i.e. a chart describing electrical connections).
  It brings us to the classic situation of apparant speed of a computational device: can it work faster than the human brain for a specific purpose? In one case here (browsing) it has to be quicker than thought while the other (flipping for specific content) must be quicker than reaction.
17. Re:Refresh rate? by jimicus · 2011-09-06 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  It's not refresh rate that's the problem, it's responsiveness. While an LCD will happily display a nominal 60Hz, there's a certain amount of responsiveness lacking in older LCDs - the time it takes to go from black-white-black again can be rather more than the 16ms-per-frame that 60Hz implies. It's not too noticeable on a desktop, but when you're looking at movies or games it manifests itself as a sort of ghosting effect. The image is changing 60 times/second all right, but even after the display has changed from one frame to the next there's a slight afterglow from the previous frame visible.
18. Re:Refresh rate? by Hadlock · 2011-09-06 01:14 · Score: 1
  
  This is wrong. I was a projectionist for far too long. First off, only very high end projectors do this. Megaplexes don't shell out for the pricey projectors. Most projectors simply display the frame once before moving on to the next frame. The amount of time between frame changes (i.e. it stops and is displayed, just like a slide projector) is 1/48th of a second, and the time the image is shown on the screen is 1/48th of a second, meaning the screen, on 99% of theaters/projectors in the world, is in fact only displaying images for 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time the screen is black.
  
  What they're describing is displaying the same image twice, with the frame advance on a separate cam. By closing the shutter they take the light off the frame allowing it to cool and extends the life of the print dramatically, rather than expose it for a continuous 3/96th of a second. It does let more light through (50-100% more) resulting in a brighter picture and less percieved flicker, but it's not "48 images". If I have 100 slides in a slide projector and the slide advance is broken so that it only advances every second push, you see each image twice, but it doesn't mean 200 images are displayed each time I show my vacation photos to hawaii. It just means more light from each image is displayed on the screen over N time.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
19. Re:Refresh rate? by drinkypoo · 2011-09-06 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  I remember the ghosting of dual-scan LCDs, but that was a short period in time - when LCDs were too expensive anyway. I've gamed on some pretty crap TFTs and it's doable, but back when they were crap... again, they were way more expensive than CRTs which provided much better performance.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
20. Re:Refresh rate? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 04:19 · Score: 0
  
  I'm an avid book reader and don't own an ebook reader, but it would seem logical that they all include both the ability to give you a "page X of Y" readout and to jump directly to a given page. Sure it's a bit more cumbersome, but given the number of times you'd want to do that compared to the time you spend just reading the book, it hardly seems like a logical reason to reject the medium. If anything, making it easier to find a particular passage you were looking for seems like a direct benefit of this kind of device. Personally I'm holding off for a colour e-ink device, I don't particularly have a need for one but I know it's just around the corner and I'd kick myself if I jumped the gun and missed out.
21. Re:Refresh rate? by bryanandaimee · 2011-09-06 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  I hope not. It seems like doing video on an e-ink screen defeats the purpose. You suck down battery life because you are refreshing as fast as possible. That and all of a sudden the price of ereaders will rise as manufacturers jump on the color/video bandwagon. Just like the price of netbooks seems to be going up due to feature creep. And no one seems to want the high volume low price market. Just give me a $50 B&W ereader and a $100 netbook and I'll be happy.
22. Re:Refresh rate? by Your.Master · 2011-09-06 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  There was definitely a transitional time when LCDs were cheap but response was typically 20ms or more, but LCDs good enough for gamers were expensive. I can remember gamers going out of their way to get CRTs while most everybody else got LCDs with new machines. IIRC non-gamer LCD computer monitors were the norm well before flatscreen TVs were, but that might just be sampling error.
23. Re:Refresh rate? by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently you haven't seen the Sony readers.
24. Re:Refresh rate? by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  Except that the first color eInk displays that come out will probably be dreadfully slow and you'll complain about them and get nothing. If you want a device for reading, you might as well get a current Pearl screen device. Or a tablet. Usable color eInk is still some years away.
25. Re:Refresh rate? by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  I looked at a Sony once and it didn't seem to be appreciably better. Maybe the new ones are. 6 fps, especially if you need to clear the screen in between, doesn't really get you that much more functionality though.
26. Re:Refresh rate? by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  It's nearly the same functionality as flipping through real pages, and I've used it to find a spot in a book, and see how many pages were left in a chapter, same as I've done in a paper book.
27. Re:Refresh rate? by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  I guess it's a little better for that, but really, flipping pages on one of the slower ones isn't so bad. The big jump in functionality comes when you can zoom, scroll and have a fully functional GUI.
love it by ThorGod · 2011-09-05 18:41 · Score: 1

I can't wait for my color-eink iPod Touch/iPad.

--
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
Cooooool. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 18:43 · Score: 0

I am not the biggest fan of e-readers. (Book snob.) I do find the applications for the technology to be fascinating, however. I strongly recommend watching the video. The interviewer asks excellent questions and the demonstrator answers them clearly and without a lot of marketing hoopla.
1. Re:Cooooool. by Dot.Com.CEO · 2011-09-05 18:53 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I used to be like you. I have about 1500 books. Then I got a kindle and I'm converted. Just give it a go, it's actually damn good technology done right.
  
  --
  Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
2. Re:Cooooool. by Mathinker · 2011-09-05 19:02 · Score: 1
  
  > it's actually damn good technology done right
  You do not specify exactly what you are referring to: did you mean "using ebooks and ereaders", or were you talking about the Kindle in particular?
3. Re:Cooooool. by inflex · 2011-09-05 19:19 · Score: 1
  
  I agree, put me down for the same sort of anecdotal evidence. Can't believe how much nicer it is to now have a K3 than lugging books around, or worse, leaving one behind that you wanted to read on a trip :)
4. Re:Cooooool. by Dot.Com.CEO · 2011-09-05 20:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'm talking about the Kindle in particular, but that's probably because I haven't really used any other ebook readers.
  
  --
  Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
5. Re:Cooooool. by rapiddescent · 2011-09-05 20:38 · Score: 1
  
  more anecdotal evidence - my kindle 3 broke down on the first day of holiday (the e-ink screen went haywire); so I was forced to speak to my wife and child and had to endure holiday activities together. it's been a while since I've had a catastrophic failure of a book.
6. Re:Cooooool. by Samantha+Wright · 2011-09-05 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  They come in all measures of quality. I've got a Kindle, too, but I've played with some others. Many you'd rather forget; basically, anything cheaper than a Kindle is destined for tragedy, excepting perhaps the Kobo. The fancier Nooks, however, tend to get a lot of love.
  
  --
  Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
7. Re:Cooooool. by chill · 2011-09-05 23:30 · Score: 1
  
  it's been a while since I've had a catastrophic failure of a book.
  Really? Then you aren't trying hard enough. Expose one to enough water and it is ruined, or close enough to warrant a replacement.
  Water being left in the rain, or dropped in the ocean/lake/river or even flushed down the toilet by a curious 3-year old child. Spilled drinks can be devastating, depending on the liquid volume.
  I've also gotten a few that were part of a bad press run. Ten minutes out of the store, even though brand new, the binding was falling apart. Going back to the store to return it, all of the other ones of that title in stock had the same problem.
  Then there is the rare missing page. I think they did an entire episode of M*A*S*H on that once.
  
  --
  Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
8. Re:Cooooool. by slim · 2011-09-06 00:18 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm, I remember a holiday being similarly affected, when I returned to our villa to find the wind had torn about 100 pages of Northern Lights out of the book, and strewn them around the garden.
9. Re:Cooooool. by otuz · 2011-09-06 01:01 · Score: 1
  
  The interviewer apparently knows nothing about technology. Asks a lot of questions, but not so good questions geek-wise. "Are those like plus and minus?" "Micro-ants?" etc..
10. Re:Cooooool. by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-09-06 01:30 · Score: 1
  
  Then I got a kindle and I'm converted.
  I'm curious what sorts of books you're reading on it. It seems perfect for 'pulp fiction' that will only be read once. Reference books you might want to keep around for 30 years, books with detailed illustrations, books of photography, out of print books - it still seems like the technology isn't yet ready for these.
  Being 'converted' seems to be tied to use cases.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
11. Re:Cooooool. by Fallingcow · 2011-09-06 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  I've found that they're not much good for:
  1) reference books, as you say
  2) relatedly, anything with lots of diagrams, images, etc. (so, just about any decent non-fiction book)
  3) anything with many footnotes (again, most non-fiction, plus loads of older fiction)
  and I've discovered that
  4) the benefits of an extensive library of free public-domain works is overrated when a huge percentage of them are far better with good, modern (so, still protected by copyright) meta-text like introductions, figures of various sorts, and footnotes, or are translations that are old enough that they'll likely turn off modern readers, with recent (still protected by copyright) translations being far more accessible and, often, simply better
  IMO they're great for a small subset of public domain material, short non-fiction works, and recent popular fiction, and shit for just about everything else. Then there are the economic factors like not being able to re-sell your purchased ebooks despite their being nearly the same price as a physical copy and, on the flip side, not being able to pick up used books at 1/2 or (often far, far) less of the new price, which makes them a bit crappy for... well, just about anything.
  The good bit is being able to carry a library with you everywhere--but that library may well be of significantly poorer quality and/or more expensive than a similar physical library.
12. Re:Cooooool. by nedlohs · 2011-09-06 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Being dropped in the ocean would be even more ruinous for a kindle I suspect...
13. Re:Cooooool. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-06 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  anything with many footnotes (again, most non-fiction, plus loads of older fiction)
  I agree that Kindle's handling of footnotes is far from perfect, but it's mostly a software deficiency. There's no reason why it couldn't render footnotes as, well, footnotes - on the bottom of the page - same as many paper books do.
14. Re:Cooooool. by Dot.Com.CEO · 2011-09-06 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  Literature. Seriously, pressing a button on the side is just like turning a page and the flicker takes much less time than physically turning the page on a book. I honestly don't know what the expectations of people who get annoyed by that flicker are. I've read tens of thousands of pages on my kindle and it's a damn nice experience... I honestly think you're grasping for an argument here. Ebook readers are made for one kind of book, and only one, and they absolutely excel at doing that. For anything else, dead tree is the way to go. I mean if "books" for you means reference books then no, ebook readers are not for you.
  
  --
  Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
15. Re:Cooooool. by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  You don't really need to be a geek to at least know the term micron. The interviewer shows himself to be a bit of an idiot with that one, and was all around annoying in that video.
16. Re:Cooooool. by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  But you could slip one into a ziplock bag as a precaution and still be able to flip pages, whereas that would prove more difficult with a paper book.
17. Re:Cooooool. by swv3752 · 2011-09-06 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  I have found my Nook to be just fine for reference books, and illustrations (if you don't mind grey scale). Problem is, it is mediocre at best with rendering PDF's. Unless the PDF was designed for the small screen, it is either too small to read easily or does not display well with pages split up on another screen.
  Right now there are very few reference books that are not PDF. That is the limitation.
  Pricing is indeed a problem, though a few publishers like Baen do pretty good on pricing their Ebooks.
  I have found that I prefer reading on the Nook instead of paperbacks novels. The Nook is easier to hold in one hand.
  
  --
  Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
18. Re:Cooooool. by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-09-06 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Literature
  Good use case. It wasn't clear that your 1500 books were all literature. That's actually pretty unusual - most people have a variety of books.
  I mean if "books" for you means reference books then no, ebook readers are not for you.
  'Books' to me means all kinds of books. But most of the people I know with Kindles primarily use them to read popular fiction, which is appropriate. I'll be thrilled when a quarto sized device of adequate color reproduction and sufficient resolution is invented to make the rest of the books useful in the digital domain.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Only color? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 18:44 · Score: 0

*sigh* guess I'll have to wait longer for the colour versions.
Size limits. by SuricouRaven · 2011-09-05 18:49 · Score: 1

How big can these e-paper displays be made, and how cheap? I rather like the idea of e-wallpaper. Not only would it allow for instant redecoration of a room, but you could use them as giant wall displays for reading news or showing alerts, and have the option of instantly changing themes for visitors or special occasions. Just need to make e-ink displays better until they are cheaper, bigger, and durable enough to withstand a few pieces of furniture banging into them over the years.
1. Re:Size limits. by Jmc23 · 2011-09-05 19:14 · Score: 1
  
  Try reading the article. They print them on rolls upto a kilometer long. Getting something to drive it is the problem.
  
  --
  Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
2. Re:Size limits. by malkavian · 2011-09-05 23:42 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't it only have to tile render and leave the pattern static? Or does the e-Ink need to be kept actively updated? I was under (probably mistakenly) the impression that e-Ink was a write and forget, taking power only to alter the screen (no power == a stable state).
3. Re:Size limits. by crimperman · 2011-09-06 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  In the video in TFA the E-Ink guy says they can make them hundreds of metres long. Well he says they produce them that long and cut them before putting the connectors on. He also mentions advertising billboards as a potential and target market for this.
4. Re:Size limits. by unrtst · 2011-09-06 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  You're correct (the display is static once set), but regardless of how the image is rendered, you still have to drive the display. IE. lots of electrical connections. Tiling may help, but it's a matter of designing that thing that handles that.
5. Re:Size limits. by SuricouRaven · 2011-09-06 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  If it were just a matter of electrical connections, that wouldn't be hard - you can address that space easily, if you don't need to write it all at once. The problem I see is durability. Wallpaper takes kicks and hits, nails being driven through it for shelves and pictures, knocks from sharp-cornered furniture and thrown objects. So to be practical, this possible future-wallpaper needs to be able to keep on working even if someone knocks a hole in it. All electrical connections would need to be massively redundant, and the circuitry built in able to route around damaged sections while keeping the down-area to no more than a few centimeters from the site of the damage.
6. Re:Size limits. by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-06 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Cutting the holes for power outlets and light switches would suck. It is a cool idea though. Having it be touch sensitive would be a great feature. Let me know when you get that done.
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
7. Re:Size limits. by jonadab · 2011-09-07 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  > I rather like the idea of e-wallpaper.
  
  Billboards. Once you got the thing built, it would be cheap to make it update several times a day, so that for instance if it's a McDonald's billboard it could advertise Sausage McMuffins and hashbrowns and the new McPepperBacon special until 10:15, then switch over to Big Macs and cola and fries until 8pm, then switch over to advertising the late-night Drive-Thru hours. Anyone with even a small amount of imagination should be able to think of ways to apply the same idea to other lines of business. For that matter, you could run a different set of advertisements each day of the week if you want. Places that don't open until afternoon (pizza joints, etc.) could sublet morning use of their billboard to businesses that cater more to morning people (e.g., some hardware stores) or simply don't feel they need (or want to pay rent for) a billboard full-time.
  
  Heck, just the fact that it would be easy to update your billboard every few days to give it a fresh look would be a big selling point for some kinds of advertisers.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Useless for video by Mathinker · 2011-09-05 18:53 · Score: 2

The current E-Ink tech is useless for video because the refresh rate is very slow.
What fascinates me about the summary is the plastic encapsulation. I wonder if eventually we will have objects which resemble paper books, but the individual pages will be easily rewritable?
My guess is that before that happens, mainline culture will change enough that people will think of paper books similar to the way most relate now to phonograph records. OTOH, I don't really believe I have any great ability to predict the future that far out.
1. Re:Useless for video by locofungus · 2011-09-05 20:25 · Score: 2
  
  I wonder if eventually we will have objects which resemble paper books, but the individual pages will be easily rewritable?
  This would be fantastic and could, potentially, obviate the need for a power supply or buttons at all. You'd "dock" the book and rewrite the pages and then carry it around and use it just like an ordinary book.
  Tim.
  
  --
  God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
2. Re:Useless for video by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 02:49 · Score: 0
  
  That would be ridiculously expensive (a sizable chunk of the cost of an e reader is the screen, imagine if you had 50 screens). Also you'd need to find a means of dealing with the fact that different books have different numbers of pages, which probably means a smaller number of pages that refresh when you reach the end, so you'll need live batteries anyway.
3. Re:Useless for video by hedwards · 2011-09-06 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  Why? I get that there are a lot of book fetishists out there that seem to have some inexplicable devotion to the format, but it's not likely to ever happen. You'd need to have an Ebook large enough to handle War and Peace for that to really work, and even if you just settle for something that's appropriate for a chapter, you're probably still going to be paying 20 or 30 times as much as you would for a comparable single page ebook.
  In practical terms, you'd be paying a lot of money for no particularly good reason.
4. Re:Useless for video by ThorGod · 2011-09-06 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Ahh, but technological costs are a moving factor. It might be quite a while before e-ink is so ubiquitous that publishing books in e-ink, devoted books. But, give it a century and it may be possible. My guess is that, by then, any refresh issues wont be a factor (either because something will replace e-ink or e-ink will advance).
  But, then, we're all tossing darts at a board.
  
  --
  PS: I don't reply to ACs.
5. Re:Useless for video by ThorGod · 2011-09-06 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, mainline culture. The cynical part of me has a hard time believing 'mainline culture' will long have a respect and desire to read. But I'm solely talking about major metropolis in the US when I say that. With the way I see people rudely crowding and going about their business here, I have to wonder how anyone manages to focus and get work done.
  Anyway, I know eink's refresh rate sucks for anything but 'still media' (books, photographs). But, when I had my first LCD, it was painful to play video games on. At some points and in some ways, it was even a stretch to game on an LCD. But no one has that problem anymore. Baring some underlying scientific problems, technological progress should lower eink's refresh rates.
  
  --
  PS: I don't reply to ACs.
6. Re:Useless for video by hedwards · 2011-09-06 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  I'm guessing that by that point, people will be beyond the need for physical books, and even if the price does come down, it's still not at all practical. It's that many more pages that can break and that many more flexible connections. But, without any actual benefit, this is just a matter of Luddites trying to fight progress.
control by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 18:54 · Score: 1, Redundant

My paper book:
(1) Works every time after a relaxing read in the bathroom, even if I occasionally splash it;
(2) Works after a drop or a knock in the train;
(3) Doesn't send any information about my reading or highlighting habits anywhere;
(4) Can actually be annotated and highlighted by writing directly on it with a stylus (though the cool kids call them pencils) - and the annotations can be removed using an eraser;
(5) Is of no interest to thieves;
(6) Has never transformed overnight into several hundred blank pages of paper because of some corporate decision somewhere;
(7) Is three-dimensional and can be held so I can look at multiple pages at once;
(8) Has zero power usage;
(9) Seems to have an average lifespan of at least a decade or two in the cheapest cases, centuries for some - they just don't go wrong when I'm in the middle of nowhere;
(10) Is sized appropriately to the content;
(11) Can be lent and resold and copied;
(12) Smells nice.
1. Re:control by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 19:04 · Score: 0
  
  My paper book [... accolades snipped ...]
  Yes, but eventually you'll get tired of that book and want another.
  I have about six moving boxes full of books that don't fit on my bookshelves. At least 90% of them would suit me just as well or better as ebooks. (The other 10% are photography books and reference books that wouldn't work as well, so I'd keep those in paper form.) I don't intend to replace my existing collection, but the idea of not acquiring another six boxes over the next five years appeals to me greatly.
2. Re:control by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 19:07 · Score: 0
  
  (6) Has never transformed overnight into several hundred blank pages of paper because of some corporate decision somewhere;
  Actually its a shame that this technology wasn't around at the time of Muhammad. That way all the verses that call on the killing of non-Muslims who don't convert or submit to dhimitude (second class status), that Western Muslims tell us have been abrogated would have disappeared. This would have prevented the majority of Muslims outside the West from believing them and implementing them as law.
3. Re:control by Telvin_3d · 2011-09-05 19:10 · Score: 1
  
  But, has extremely poor storage density.and requires bulky physical media.
  Sometimes two giant advantages can outweigh many smaller ones depending on the situation. When it is convenient I enjoy reading dead-tree books. But for daily use digital is simply the way for me and many others.
4. Re:control by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 19:19 · Score: 0
  
  (11) Can be lent and resold and copied;
  (12) Smells nice.
  Not if used according to requirement (1) through (10)
5. Re:control by PhrostyMcByte · 2011-09-05 19:43 · Score: 1
  
  (13) Has proper typography—kerning, ligatures, hanging puncutation, and paragraph-optimized justification.
  (14) Is easier to read having a higher DPI, better contrast ratio, and less reflectivity.
  (15) Has cheaper books.
  (16) Can't be taken away from you at the flip of a switch.
  (17) Requires a trip to a store, or a lengthy ship time.
  (18) Can only contain a limited number of pages.
  I own a Nook and love it, but am waiting very excitedly for this tech to evolve.
6. Re:control by peppepz · 2011-09-05 19:57 · Score: 2
  
  [DRM sucks]
  Then use plain PDFs.
  
  (12) Smells nice.
  Nothing can beat the smell of fresh desiccant when you open the box of a shiny new gadget (such as an e-book reader).
7. Re:control by chromas · 2011-09-05 20:43 · Score: 1
  
  (3) Doesn't send any information about my reading or highlighting habits anywhere;
  What? How do they target the ads?
8. Re:control by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 21:08 · Score: 2
  
  There is a geek hoarding habit which I guess would fit in with the need to have compact digital copies of everything. But there is really no requirement to keep your own copy of every book you have ever read or may read at some point in the future.
9. Re:control by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  You underestimate the resilience of a well-bound book printed on good paper.
10. Re:control by teh+kurisu · 2011-09-05 21:48 · Score: 1
  
  (6) Has never transformed overnight into several hundred blank pages of paper because of some corporate decision somewhere;
  
  There's nothing to stop you from backing up your ebooks if you're really worried about this.
  "Inability to make backups" is a mark against the physical book. If my house burns down with my Kindle in it, I can buy a new Kindle and my entire book collection is still there.
11. Re:control by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 22:33 · Score: 0
  
  E-paper of the last generation has better contrast ratio than most paperbacks, and I believe better DPI too.
12. Re:control by TheRaven64 · 2011-09-05 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  Can actually be annotated and highlighted by writing directly on it with a stylus (though the cool kids call them pencils) - and the annotations can be removed using an eraser;
  You can do this with my iRex iLiad. The annotations are stored as PNGs, one per page, and there's software for merging them with the PDF (if your handwriting is better than mine then you can run them through handwriting recognition and have the annotations indexed as well). iRex no longer exists - not surprising, they made great hardware but their software sucked - but iRiver (what's with all of these iCompanies) makes a device with similar capabilities: their Cover Story.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
13. Re:control by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  Erm, most books are just copies of some original and there are lots more copies floating around the world. What you might be arguing is that it is cheaper to rebuild a whole digital book collection than a physical one - this is true for a particular range of disasters and time frames.
  For example, if I drop my book in the water while on some field trip / holiday, it may become a disfigured mess but it's unlikely to become unreadable. I can continue using it and get a new copy in better condition once I've got home. A Kindle in the pond leaves me without my whole reading collection until I return home. With miniaturisation and advanced technology comes a very small volume which needs to be damaged in order to totally destroy an experience. And guess which of the one book or the one e-reader is likely to cost more to replace?
  But what I fear most is a massive loss of knowledge/culture accompanying some huge disaster, e.g. war.
14. Re:control by maxwell+demon · 2011-09-05 22:58 · Score: 1
  
  (8) Has zero power usage;
  That's not really true. You still need power to flip pages. It's just that you provide that power manually.
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
15. Re:control by foniksonik · 2011-09-06 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  3) your purchase is recorded somewhere and likely being used to profile you.
  8) making the book takes power, storing the book is an opportunity cost and takes some power.
  These may be on the edge of statistical significance but can be relevant if you buy enough books frequently.
  
  --
  A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
16. Re:control by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 00:36 · Score: 1
  
  I love books. I have a bunch of them. Through several moves I've pared down my collection to about a hundred that I really like, with the rest in storage until I end up somewhere semi-permanently. Since I got an iPad I've been STRONGLY preferring ebooks for almost everything. They take up a lot less space and are much easier to move.
17. Re:control by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  >If my house burns down with my Kindle in it, I can buy a new Kindle and my entire book collection is still there.
  Unless Amazon decides the collection (or part of it) doesn't exist any more.
  And then, there are these retro "scanner" and "photocopy machine" things for backing up dead tree books.
18. Re:control by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  Well, 11 of your 12 points apply to my Sony ereader. Not sure why you're so antagonistic towards ereaders. Is someone threatening to rip your paper books out of your hands? You might consider contacting local authorities.
19. Re:control by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-06 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  (5) Is of no interest to thieves;
  I used to leave my car windows down every where I went despite having expensive text books pilled in the seat. It is cheaper to replace a stereo than a window. Anyway, you are correct. Thieve just seem to have no interest in books.
  (6) Has never transformed overnight into several hundred blank pages of paper because of some corporate decision somewhere;
  I'm waiting for black rectangles to start showing up on ebooks in some southern states. Most people find that ludicrous but if the novel is one that is used in a classroom I could see it happening. The Textbook Wars
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
20. Re:control by sonicmerlin · 2011-09-06 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  If you add a small solar panel to an e-reader then you don't ever need to worry about charging it.
21. Re:control by teh+kurisu · 2011-09-07 22:53 · Score: 1
  
  Unless Amazon decides the collection (or part of it) doesn't exist any more.
  
  No. I download all my Kindle books using Kindle for Mac (KfPC would also do the job) and back up those files myself. Amazon can't touch them.
  
  And then, there are these retro "scanner" and "photocopy machine" things for backing up dead tree books.
  
  Impractical, and you know it.
Letter sized... by Tropaios · 2011-09-05 19:01 · Score: 5, Informative

The article states that they print ROLLS of this stuff over a meter wide and up to a kilometer long... Why can't I have a color e-ink reader with an 8 1/2" x 11" screen, a touch screen, and full PDF support?
I don't care what it costs, shut up and take my money!
1. Re:Letter sized... by inflex · 2011-09-05 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  I've wondered that myself, would LOVE a 24" eInk display for slow updating data. Of course, the devil is likely in the details, as with all great electronics.
2. Re:Letter sized... by daid303 · 2011-09-05 19:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I say "wallpaper". Really, how awesome would that be!
3. Re:Letter sized... by Tropaios · 2011-09-05 19:40 · Score: 2
  
  That would also be amazing. but at 167 ppi, your 12 ft wall with 8 ft ceilings is going to be a roughly 385 megapixel display...
  But I am also the same guy who wonders why if I can have a qHD display in a 4" cell phone, why can't I have a 4K display in my 17" laptop...
  Scumbag tech companies aren't innovating fast enough!
4. Re:Letter sized... by jeti · 2011-09-05 19:59 · Score: 2
  
  That would also be amazing. but at 167 ppi, your 12 ft wall with 8 ft ceilings is going to be a roughly 385 megapixel display...
  So? The wallpaper doesn't have to update quickly. Use vector graphics and a passive matrix display.
  You don't need a lot of memory or a lot of transistors for a high resolution display.
5. Re:Letter sized... by AMoth · 2011-09-05 20:43 · Score: 1
  
  Anything that get's us closer to a paperless world ... but I agree, in this case size does mater! ZOMG!!! I'm having positive vibes with this (!!) yks!!!
6. Re:Letter sized... by ccguy · 2011-09-05 21:33 · Score: 2
  
  Take mine too, but for fuck's sake, don't bring that letter size shit to new devices! Do A4 please.
7. Re:Letter sized... by drinkypoo · 2011-09-05 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  Take mine too, but for fuck's sake, don't bring that letter size shit to new devices! Do A4 please.
  That is a dumb idea because tons of softbound reference works are in letter size, but practically none are in A4.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
8. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 22:36 · Score: 0
  
  I've got a better suggestion. Why not just make it 11.7" x 8.5" and then it could display both A4 *and* letter pages.
9. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 22:47 · Score: 0
  
  That is a dumb idea because tons of softbound reference works are in letter size, but practically none are in A4.
  Maybe in the US, but not in the other 70-80% of a new electronic device's market.
10. Re:Letter sized... by itsdapead · 2011-09-05 22:53 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The article states that they print ROLLS of this stuff over a meter wide and up to a kilometer long... Why can't I have a color e-ink reader with an 8 1/2" x 11" screen, a touch screen, and full PDF support?
  I don't care what it costs, shut up and take my money!
  I get the impression that they're talking about large sheets of the "microcapsule" material used in the displays, rather than complete displays with the electronics required to "write" pixels to them. They're pretty clear that the electronics are the limiting factor.
  Meanwhile, the Kindle seems reasonably happy with displaying PDFs - its just that panning and zooming them is painful - partly because of the limited controls on a Kindle, but mainly because of the very slow screen refresh.
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
11. Re:Letter sized... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2011-09-05 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  The article mentions that the electronic gadgetry needed to drive such high res displays is the bottleneck.
  But I also think there are defects. The bigger screen version of Kindle has much higher rate of failures and faults. All it takes is one stuck pixel. I think they print such a long sheet, and punch out defect free rectangles out and discard the rest. But this is just speculation on my part.
  
  --
  sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
12. Re:Letter sized... by gatzke · 2011-09-05 23:02 · Score: 1
  
  And no real-estate taken up by a chicklet keyboard. I love the kindle, and the geometry of the little one is just right for reading. However, the larger DX kindle has too much frame and wastes space at the bottom with a kbd.
13. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 23:03 · Score: 0
  
  A4 can show letter size content without problem (actually probably adds a more aesthetic frame). The opposite is not true.
  But as you guys still use fahrenheit, gallons, feet and miles, this probably is too much to ask.
  No wonder the global meaningfulness of the US of A is diminishing fast.
14. Re:Letter sized... by drinkypoo · 2011-09-05 23:34 · Score: 1
  
  A4 can show letter size content without problem (actually probably adds a more aesthetic frame). The opposite is not true.
  Either has to be scaled to be fully represented, unless it's cropped. Thus both will look like crap on the other's display. Most work with not be reformatted. The default will be to scale to avoid failing to display data in the margin, however trivial or unlikely.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
15. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 23:44 · Score: 0
  
  It's not true that there are hardly any in A4 size. A heck of a lot of scientific papers are published in A4.
16. Re:Letter sized... by dargaud · 2011-09-06 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Slightly different requirements here: I want A5 format, color e-ink, full CBR/CBZ support (which is the easiest thing in the world, but strangely few ebooks offer it), with SD cards, optional touch, no keyboard, no network, no music, no Windows/iOS shenanigans. For reading comic books. Now the first one will take my money, I've been waiting for a couple years.
  
  --
  Non-Linux Penguins ?
17. Re:Letter sized... by dargaud · 2011-09-06 00:26 · Score: 2
  
  I've got a better suggestion. Why not just make it 11.7" x 8.5" and then it could display both A4 *and* letter pages.
  You mean 21x29.7cm... C:-P
  
  --
  Non-Linux Penguins ?
18. Re:Letter sized... by Hadlock · 2011-09-06 00:57 · Score: 2
  
  I think the main problem is that the company who makes the eink "paper" displays is also the company that makes the video controllers for them. There are no third party video controller manufacturers yet. From what I understand, the "paper" is a solid, quality product at this point; the main sticking point is that the controllers are still very basic; several eink products use the same video controller as the Kindle. It's not like you can just attach a VGA or HDMI cable to one of these things and get video output (yet). Due to the design of the video controller, they don't scale terribly well.
  
  That said, put me on the mailing list for a 1x2 meter display when they become available! Nothing like having a weather/news display on the wall you can see from across the room, or being able to check your email from across the living room at a glance.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
19. Re:Letter sized... by crimperman · 2011-09-06 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  Umm you might like to take a trip outside the US every now and then. You might well find many manuals and other reference materials are printed in A4.
20. Re:Letter sized... by jimicus · 2011-09-06 01:04 · Score: 2
  
  The biggest "detail" is probably "Nobody has a way to drive a display that size. Yeah, sure, we could build one but the engineer time would be expensive, not to mention tooling up a factory which doesn't come cheap. So unless we can spread that cost over many hundreds of thousands - maybe even millions - of units, the unit price will be so high that few will want to buy it. We have no idea whether or not we could sell that many in the first place, so we're not about to ask someone like Foxconn to run off an initial batch of 250,000. Look what happened when HP did that."
21. Re:Letter sized... by otuz · 2011-09-06 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  I'd guess one limiting factor is the resistance of the wiring on the backplane of the screen. Also, the this part (amongst others) is wrong:
  
  Kindle E Ink display is already capable of much higher resolutions, up to 12x SVGA in fact. The bottleneck isn’t the screen tech, but the underlying electronics capable of handling such a high resolution display.
  The limiting factor is very much the screen techology, because the limitation is how fine a mesh of wiring they are able to print on the back of the display, not "electronics capable of handling it".
22. Re:Letter sized... by Zerth · 2011-09-06 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  True, you'd only need like 40k transistors but the connector would be ridiculous.
23. Re:Letter sized... by Taty'sEyes · 2011-09-06 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know about wallpaper, but I could honestly use one as a dry erase "white board" right now. I literally need one "right now". Hhhmmm, next patent?
  
  --
  We show geeks how to get their dream girl at EyesOfOdessa.com
24. Re:Letter sized... by hedwards · 2011-09-06 03:12 · Score: 1
  
  Cost, and battery life. I'm sure that it can be done, but at this stage in the game, the money is mainly there for something that most people need. Plus, most PDFs have text that can reflow as needed. Unless you spend most of your time reading PDFs that were scans it shouldn't be an issue.
25. Re:Letter sized... by metrometro · 2011-09-06 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  You say wall paper, someone else says targeted daily deal advertising. I'll pass.
26. Re:Letter sized... by Chuckles08 · 2011-09-06 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  No kidding... just make something with an 8.5x11" equivalent screen and I'll be there with my checkbook. I'm tired of waiting!
  
  --
  Twenda Learning: Educational Apps that Engage.
27. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 03:55 · Score: 0
  
  I thought Epson made the controllers?
  Leastways last time I looked at prototype boards, you could get Epson EINK controllers.
  eg
  http://vdc.epson.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=289&%20Itemid=99
  and some of the freescale ARM SoC's have embedded EINK controllers too.
  Its not quite a monoculture.
  Lawrence / ComputerSolutions.cn
28. Re:Letter sized... by steelfood · 2011-09-06 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  In a word: QA.
  Your rolls of e-ink "paper" will have defects. The larger the "cut", the higher chance of a defective portion in one cut, the more you'll have to throw away.
  Granted, you could technically make the cut such that you can salvage smaller pieces from a defective larger one (ledger-letter-statement). But that additional process might be too costly to be effective.
  And then, there are market forces. I'm not sure anyone would want to carry around a 8.5x11 (plus bezel) e-reader. Now, if you could roll it up like a scroll or roller shade, you'd be golden, but that comes with other interface issues. I'm sure it's in the works though.
  
  --
  "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
29. Re:Letter sized... by InsertCleverUsername · 2011-09-06 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  I say "wallpaper". Really, how awesome would that be!
  Exactly. How about an update to the somewhat cheesy 1970s panorama scenes that took up a whole wall, but this time it's reincarnated as a super high-def. video feed in 360 degrees?
  
  No need to ever go outside again.
  
  --
  Ask me about my sig!
30. Re:Letter sized... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-06 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  I say "wallpaper". Really, how awesome would that be!
  I say "wallpaper with the Game of Life running on it"!
31. Re:Letter sized... by wolrahnaes · 2011-09-06 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  But I am also the same guy who wonders why if I can have a qHD display in a 4" cell phone, why can't I have a 4K display in my 17" laptop...
  I'm also that guy. It pisses me off so much that in 2004 I was able to spec a laptop with a 15" 1920x1200 display for under $1500, yet still today in 2011 if I want that resolution or greater in a desktop display I need to either find the rare 20-22" units in that range or get a 24".
  
  --
  I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
32. Re:Letter sized... by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-06 08:16 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry Tropaios. I'm a fan of paperbacks so I vote for 4.33" x 7.01"
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
33. Re:Letter sized... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-07 05:41 · Score: 0
  
  That said, put me on the mailing list for a 1x2 meter display when they become available! Nothing like having a weather/news display on the wall you can see from across the room,
  They exist! After moving (Yay, no more basement dwelling!), I have recently gotten the luck to have access to not one, but *two* of those (and a small *third*), and they are indeed awesome! The resolution is incredible, they take no power at all and are surprisingly cheap. And interestingly, we actually often use them for weather information.
  Not that I bought them myself... (Ha, I wish!) No, my landlord actually bought them. If you want them too: I think he said they are called "windows".
  Fascinating tech!
I'm convinced! by Namarrgon · 2011-09-05 19:06 · Score: 1

Backlit LCD it is.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
1. Re:I'm convinced! by mwvdlee · 2011-09-05 23:44 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  You forget the obvious alternative; a single long stretch of paper. It could be rolled up to make it portable. Now THAT would be progress!
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
2. Re:I'm convinced! by Defenestrar · 2011-09-06 00:14 · Score: 2
  
  Perhaps you could roll from both ends to achieve a "scrolling" look mimicking modern computer displays. It'd give a high tech feeling to your idea!
3. Re:I'm convinced! by jimicus · 2011-09-06 00:16 · Score: 1
  
  Problem with that is that wood-pulp paper goes brittle over time - so such a book would eventually reach a point where as soon as you open it it will fall apart.
  However, I understand you can make a paper-like material from the pith of the papyrus plant - I wonder if you could print onto that...
4. Re:I'm convinced! by elrous0 · 2011-09-06 01:28 · Score: 1
  
  Well if you really want it to last, why not just use embossed lettering on a stone or metal medium?
  
  --
  SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
5. Re:I'm convinced! by Thud457 · 2011-09-06 01:51 · Score: 1
  
  not searchable.
  also, slow and difficult for Wintermute-Neuromancer/Multivac/google/skynet to access.
  
  --
  the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
6. Re:I'm convinced! by jimicus · 2011-09-06 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm. Actually, that's not a bad idea.
  The only thing that concerns me then is that languages don't last forever. How many people speak fluent Latin today, for instance?
7. Re:I'm convinced! by Nadaka · 2011-09-06 03:12 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't embossed lettering on stone take a lot of time to carve the raised letters?
  Why not simply press the end of a reed into a tablet of damp clay to create the lettering? Then it can also be reused or baked to permanence.
8. Re:I'm convinced! by nschubach · 2011-09-06 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously, a method of drawing little images of people doing things would be beneficial.
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
9. Re:I'm convinced! by jimicus · 2011-09-06 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  No, same problem. Customs and habits of our society are bound to creep into such a system, which means that if our society doesn't exist in a few thousand years, nor will anyone who can figure out the symbols.
  Maybe some sort of redundant array of well-known languages could act as a kind of English-to-(whatever we all speak 3,000 years from now) dictionary.
10. Re:I'm convinced! by dotancohen · 2011-09-06 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  You forget the obvious alternative; a single long stretch of paper. It could be rolled up to make it portable. Now THAT would be progress!
  That's so last-last-last millennium:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah_scroll
  
  --
  It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
11. Re:I'm convinced! by PastTense · 2011-09-06 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  No, it's not. Have you ever heard of the famous novel "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac?
  "Though Jack Kerouac began thinking about the novel that was to become On the Road as early as 1947, it was not until three weeks in April 1951, in an apartment on West Twentieth Street in Manhattan, that he wrote the first full draft that was satisfactory to him. Typed out as one long, single-spaced paragraph on eight long sheets of tracing paper that he later taped together to form a 120-foot scroll, this document is among the most significant, celebrated, and provocative artifacts in contemporary American literary history. It represents the first full expression of Kerouac's revolutionary aesthetic, the identifiable point at which his thematic vision and narrative voice came together in a sustained burst of creative energy. It was also part of a wider vital experimentation in the American literary, musical, and visual arts in the post-World War II period."
  http://www.amazon.com/Road-Original-Scroll-Jack-Kerouac/dp/067006355X
12. Re:I'm convinced! by RockDoctor · 2011-09-06 19:48 · Score: 1
  
  How many people spoke fluent Latin in, say, Homer's day. Or Hammurabi's day?
  (Someone is going to come up with a Simpsons character called Hammurabi now. I can just feel it.)
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
13. Re:I'm convinced! by K10W · 2011-09-06 23:31 · Score: 1
  
  it only goes brittle if lignin is left in or it's unbuffered so acid can react on aforementioned lignin. Alpha cellulose papers (aka wood free although it does come from trees), cotton papers, long life acid free wood papers and so on would thereby make this idea futureproof. I look forward to owning one of those fancy futurisic scrolls, they wont even need power which beats the likes of nooks battery life.
14. Re:I'm convinced! by jonadab · 2011-09-07 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Only problem is, paper's not very durable. They really should make it out of something sturdier, like thinly stretched specially cured leather.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
4,096 colors? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 19:19 · Score: 0

Little known fact: this display is just an Amiga with a bit of plastic glued on the front.
1. Re:4,096 colors? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 22:51 · Score: 0
  
  ...and you have to use both hands in the HAM (hold-and-modify) mode.
Doomed tech by DrXym · 2011-09-05 19:20 · Score: 1

With Mirasol around the corner and greater consumer preference for responsive colour displays, e-ink color is going to be DOA.
It is just e-ink with a coloured filter over the top. To imagine the effect print out a picture in grayscale on a piece of grey cardboard and colour it in with pencils. It will look awful, washed out, faded like some colourized B&W picture.
1. Re:Doomed tech by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 19:48 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Just looking at this demo suggests it's neither e-ink nor LCD quality.
  Washed out compared to surroudings: check.
  Low contrast/dark compared to surroundings: check.
  Annoyingly reflects ball of light: check.
  Contrast changes significantly when angle to camera changed: check.
2. Re:Doomed tech by Tropaios · 2011-09-05 19:48 · Score: 1
  
  No, the technology is poised to be amazing and will really take off. Think about all of the books you've ever read, now think about the pictures in them. Black and white right? Unless they included a few extra glossy pages at high cost? Now you can add good quality color images to what are essentially paperback books at no cost. This will be great for maps, diagrams, and any other application which doesn't specifically need the highest quality images. Even at just 4096 colors 300 ppi color e-ink will be an amazing game changer. and it is an impressive advancement.
  It really doesn't matter if it will look awful compared to an LCD, it will look great compared to a non-color e-ink product and it will blow people away and they will throw their money at it.
3. Re:Doomed tech by Tumbleweed · 2011-09-05 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  With Mirasol around the corner and greater consumer preference for responsive colour displays, e-ink color is going to be DOA.
  I'm pretty sure Mirasol is French for 'just around the corner'. Don't hold your breath unless you look good in blue.
4. Re:Doomed tech by JasterBobaMereel · 2011-09-05 22:27 · Score: 1
  
  How many books have you read with coloured text or backgrounds ...?
  If I want to have a multimedia experience, I do not read a book, If I want to watch a movie I do not use a kindle ...
  
  --
  Puteulanus fenestra mortis
5. Re:Doomed tech by DrXym · 2011-09-05 22:58 · Score: 1
  
  No, the technology is poised to be amazing and will really take off. Think about all of the books you've ever read, now think about the pictures in them. Black and white right? Unless they included a few extra glossy pages at high cost? Now you can add good quality color images to what are essentially paperback books at no cost. This will be great for maps, diagrams, and any other application which doesn't specifically need the highest quality images. Even at just 4096 colors 300 ppi color e-ink will be an amazing game changer. and it is an impressive advancement.
  Amazing tech? It's the existing 16 level grayscale e-ink with a layer on top of red, green, and blue filters which turn on or off. It's 4096 colours because 3 grayscale pixels tinted for each colour produces 4096 combinations. It will produce a low contrast tinted display with all the drawbacks of e-ink. Perhaps it's better than purely monochrome e-ink but it certainly isn't a game changer.
  I expect the industry to grab an alternate solution with both hands at the first opportunity. I mentioned Mirasol because it is a low power display which produces vivid colours and does it with a high refresh rate. The tech has been demoed at trade shows for over a year now so clearly something is being worked on which will use it. I expect when it does appear the industry will grab it with both hands, or settle for OLED.
6. Re:Doomed tech by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  How many books have you read with coloured text or backgrounds ...?
  I hear lots of people need or like to look at printed illustrations or diagrams. Or to read comics. And kids like lots of colour. Hey, some people with dyslexia benefit from being able to change the hues of the paper.
  And none of my highlighter pens are shades of grey.
  Ignore the movement and concentrate on the lack of quality of the image.
7. Re:Doomed tech by JasterBobaMereel · 2011-09-05 23:13 · Score: 1
  
  The only valid reason you came up with was Comics/Comic Books
  You obviously read different books than the rest of the world - most have almost no illustrations, few in colour - Not because it is expensive (it generally is not anymore) but because it is distracting
  Highlighter pens are bright colours so you can find the highlighted sections easily - not really a problem in a searchable text?
  Just because 'kids like it' or 'it looks cool' is not a reason to do it ...go and look at most web pages (slashdot is a good example) - they are black text on a light background, with few pictures ... in the early years of the web people used many pictures many colours flashing text etc ... it died down because it was annoying distracting and hard to read, the only items like this on web pages now are adverts, and are generally though to be annoying because of this
  
  --
  Puteulanus fenestra mortis
8. Re:Doomed tech by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 23:27 · Score: 1
  
  The only valid reason you came up with was Comics/Comic Books
  Since I'm on Slashdot, I guess I ought to expect that. And the missing of accessibility for dyslexics.
  
  You obviously read different books than the rest of the world - most have almost no illustrations, few in colour - Not because it is expensive (it generally is not anymore) but because it is distracting
  You have no idea what you're talking about. There are general interest books full of photographs of artistic or cultural works; there are technical books full of diagrams where colour is used to represent different paths or categories or whatever. You may have a psychological aversion to colour but we've evolved to recognise it and make use of it.
  
  Just because 'kids like it' or 'it looks cool' is not a reason to do it
  So if young children are attracted by bright colours and it helps encourage them to read you should nevertheless not do it?
  
  go and look at most web pages (slashdot is a good example) - they are black text on a light background, with few pictures ...
  Unfortunately not. Web pages continue to be filled with distracting layout, banners, bars, squiggles and crap. Adblock almost makes you forget how bad it is. The web of the mid-'90s was far better. Although you may remember the brightly-coloured imagemaps, these were exceptions. Lack of bandwidth meant it was mostly text and the occasional icon with pictures/diagrams interspersed where needed.
  You've created a strawman of inappropriate colouring. Well done. No-one'll disagree with you, but it's not what's being discussed.
9. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 00:39 · Score: 0
  
  books have pictures in them?
10. Re:Doomed tech by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-06 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  Textbooks and scientific papers. In other words, unless you read almost exclusively fiction, lots.
11. Re:Doomed tech by berj · 2011-09-06 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  I read a non-zero number of scientific papers in a month. Most of them have colour illustrations, diagrams and charts. If an e-reader doesn't allow me to view those in colour.. what point is it? For not much more than a Kindle DX (only readers of that size are useful for reading high resolution PDFs) I can get a tablet which *will* view those PDFs in colour *and* will allow me to read books *and* will allow me to zoom in smoothly and quickly to the images in the PDF *and* will let me watch a movie *and* will let me surf the net *and* will let me reply to emails from the office *and* will let me play a few games while I'm sitting on the plane, etc.
  In the case of an eePad transformer (by all accounts a great little tablet) we're only talking $20. That's a whole lot of extra value for my $20. If I go for an iPad I have to shell out $120. Still money well spent.
  Sure I lose the really amazing readability of the e-ink display. But most high-end tablet displays are *very* readable for me and, personally, I don't spend much time reading outside in the sun so glare is not an issue. Also, I don't have to deal with any of the drawbacks of e-ink either. If they manage to make an e-ink based device of the right size, with fast enough refresh and rendering *then* we can talk. Until then, for my reading dollars, a tablet is the way to go.
12. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 02:41 · Score: 0
  
  So you just proved their product solves nothing by sitting in between. Full circle.
13. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 02:58 · Score: 0
  
  Nonfiction books often have diagrams, or photographs which would benefit from color.
  Game rule-books often have color artwork, and complex backgrounds, as well as charts tables, and colored fonts which aid understanding.
  Children's books are roughly 80% pictures.
  Atlases require color to display maps of even trivial complexity.
  Comic books are often illustrated in color.
14. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 03:39 · Score: 0
  
  Why not focus what it is, rather than what it isn't? The iMod is a responsive reflective display, with decent color. It may not look great next to an IPS LCD, but it is enough to provide a good tablet experience, and not consign the devices to be mere e-readers. The sacrifice in video quality is nothing for someone seeking the other advantages of a reflective display. Make it 10" and give it a good digitizer and multitouch input, and this is exactly what I want. If one desires to watch media, there are far better devices than a tablet anyway.
  As for your concerns, it is very difficult to judge the quality of a reflective display in a lousy youtube video. Even a good LCD would look washed out and awful without seriously jacking up the brightness. Likewise with reflections from bright light sources, and besides, that is more a matter of the surface coating. I'm willing to bet that that display looks very fine in person.
15. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  Comics.
16. Re:Doomed tech by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-06 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Mirasol has been "around the corner" for several generations of eInk devices. And is its contrast still as bad as in the demos (meaning, as bad as early eInk was)?
17. Re:Doomed tech by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  HOUSE OF LEAVES
  Srsly.
18. Re:Doomed tech by DrXym · 2011-09-06 21:02 · Score: 1
  
  I agree it's not out of the gates yet but it does exist in prototypes and products have been announced that will sport it. From what is known and can be seen on YouTube clips (by people walking around trade shows), it is a far more compelling solution than e-ink color. It has a fast refresh speed, possibly enough for video but certainly more than sufficient for a UI, it produces vivid colours, and it's low power tech like e-ink. It can even supposedly be backlit but it will make do with ambient light. Even on the vids up on YouTube you can see there is a vast difference in quality between the two.
19. Re:Doomed tech by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-07 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  If they happen to make it work, great. The problem is that all the same things were said about Pixel Qi, and I was waiting for it very eagerly - and extremely underwhelmed by what I saw when I actually bought a product (Notion Ink Adam) using it. It is also something that is intended to have the benefits of eInk with no drawbacks - a true reflective mode, but with fast refresh, color, and ability to work in backlit mode. And it did all that - except that contrast was very bad in reflective mode (noticeably worse than your average eInk), and colors still quite washed out in backlit mode (noticeably worse than your average TFT) - so in practice it was pointless.
  Now maybe they - or Mirasol, or whoever - eventually get there. Indeed, I'd be surprised if eventually someone didn't. And I'll be waiting for this day to buy it. But excuse me if I'm somewhat skeptical of the claim that something like this is "just around the corner".
20. Re:Doomed tech by JasterBobaMereel · 2011-09-08 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  We are talking about e-book readers - these are (currently) not for kids ...
  You are right that some Dyslexics find certain colour combinations help, but unfortunately this is a broken option on almost everything they read
  Books full of photographs, high quality diagrams is not what this is doing, these are low quality coloured pictures (so far) when it is better quality you will have a point
  Most web pages people *read* now are still mostly text this is not now a bandwidth restriction it is simply that people do not read pages with clutter - Note again this is pages people *read* many sites are not really for reading but for presenting large amounts of information, which is not what an e-book reader is for
  I have a smartphone, and have used a tablet - they are perfect for what they do, but they are horrible to read large amounts of text on, this is what I use a Kindle for ... the right tool for the right job - we already have good quality colour screens but they are not good for reading, we have e-ink displays that are easy to read, I await when I can use one screen for both, but the e-ink flash and low rez colour is not the solution ...
  Give me a portable hi rez full colour touchscreen that is easy on the eyes to read and you can throw away all other devices, make it kid proof or very cheap and you won't need childrens books either ...
  
  --
  Puteulanus fenestra mortis
NookColor 2 by NuShrike · 2011-09-05 19:43 · Score: 1

This falls in line with the Nook Color 2 color e-ink rumors: http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/02/barnes-noble-nook-color-2-to-launch-this-month/
It's hypocritical media buzz really excited about the upcoming color Kindle which is sounding very much an exact clone of the NookColor. Many are calling it "Amazon's tablet" while backhandedly refusing to acknowledge B&N's original effort beyond calling it an "e-reader".
E Ink credit card by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 20:54 · Score: 0

is the one in the picture a legit one ?
Kindle staying e-ink? by natd · 2011-09-05 21:02 · Score: 1

I was fairly horrified at the story early this week that the colour Kindle is LCD. I've got an iPad and a Kindle for precisely the reason that I just don't enjoy the Kindle as a book replacement the way I do the Kindle. Hopefully the timing here isn't a coincidence and Amazon are sticking with e-ink.

--
Only big ligs use sigs.
1. Re:Kindle staying e-ink? by itsdapead · 2011-09-05 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  I was fairly horrified at the story early this week that the colour Kindle is LCD.
  ...but e-ink (even the colour e-ink described in TFA) is far too slow for video, games etc. Its also too slow to properly implement an iOS/Android style multitouch interface (sure, you can add a touch sensitive screen, but its the visual feedback that "makes" these interfaces).
  I'd also like to see what the resolution/contrast of these colour e-ink screens is like, especially when displaying black-on-white text (as far as I can see, adding colour can only reduce the black-on-white resolution).
  The rumour was that the B&W Kindle was going to continue alongside the new "Kindle tablet" - which seems like sense. The B&W kindle is unbeatable for reading novels etc. even though the iPad Kindle app has better functionality. Convergence between e-readers and tablets depends on some new display technology with the battery life and clarity of e-ink plus the colour and speed of LCD.
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
2. Re:Kindle staying e-ink? by DrXym · 2011-09-06 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Amazon sell apps, movies, music, games as well as books. It's obviously in their interests to sell a device capable of receiving them all of that content even if it upsets some purists who want e-ink devices. I'm sure they'll supply e-ink for some time to come, possibly even in colour. But the future is clearly not e-ink.
3. Re:Kindle staying e-ink? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 03:37 · Score: 0
  
  I just don't enjoy the Kindle as a book replacement the way I do the Kindle.
  FAIL.
4. Re:Kindle staying e-ink? by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  The color Kindle will be powered by Android, therefor it will most likely be LCD based. If Amazon does use a color eInk display, it will be a completely separate device. Whether it will replace the LCD/Android Kindle, that's Amazon's business decision.
5. Re:Kindle staying e-ink? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 08:42 · Score: 0
  
  There's a market out there for enhanced books and magazines and Amazon can't tap into it without offering a device that displays vivid color and plays video. An LCD gives them this capability (and it's cheap).
  If you already have a Kindle with an e-Ink display, why would you care what their new device has? You're set.
flick through by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 21:24 · Score: 0

I'm reading a book on my Kindle that has notes at the end of each chapter. By the time I get to them I want to look back and reread the passage they refer to - easy in a real book, but very laborious in an e-book. The inability to flick through pages is one of the e-book's greatest weaknesses. Along with its indifference to book design of course...
1. Re:flick through by c0lo · 2011-09-05 21:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'm reading a book on my Kindle that has notes at the end of each chapter. By the time I get to them I want to look back and reread the passage they refer to - easy in a real book, but very laborious in an e-book. ... Along with its indifference to book design of course...
  You reckon? I always hated the end-notes in a book, even a real one.
  I can understand that layout-ing a book for press-printing is much cheaper if relying on end-notes instead of footnotes, but with now the ubiquitous use of the computer in "desktop publishing" this should not be an excuse (at most, I can accept the idea of relying on endnotes if the notes themselves have a large extent).
  But end-notes in an ebook without back-referencing? Good God, the publisher of such books must be to lowest type $crooges, with the only motivation of staying in business being to punish everyone that need or love to read a(n e) book.
  My point: don't blame the eBook reader, but the publisher of such monstrous mutilation of the ebook.
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
2. Re:flick through by Zerth · 2011-09-06 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  By the time I get to them I want to look back and reread the passage they refer to - easy in a real book, but very laborious in an e-book.
  
  Hrm, if only there were some way to join two pieces of text in an ebook. Some sort of instantaneous "link".
3. Re:flick through by unrtst · 2011-09-06 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Parent is absolutely correct. I have several ebooks from O'Rielly that have footnotes throughout that link to notes at the end of the chapter. They all have forward and back references. The Kindle handles them perfectly. Select it from text, and it goes to the note; select the note, and it goes to the text. Easy to bounce back and forth (easier than manually page flipping a real book to find the end of chapter).
  The kindle also gained page number support (on supporting books). If the ebook was designed with page numbers in it, you can easily jump to a page number (and/or character offset). So if the note only references a page number, use the "menu->go to->page number" option. I'll admit, that *may* be a little slower than thumbing through a book, but not significantly. Again, the fault of the ebook publisher if they don't include the page number support.
  FWIW, here's an example of a book with page number support: http://www.amazon.com/Cryptonomicon-ebook/dp/B000FC11A6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1315318756&sr=1-1
  In the product details:
  Page Numbers Source ISBN: 0380788624
  I love that they list the ISBN the page numbers come from, so you have a physical version to compare with.
4. Re:flick through by fafaforza · 2011-09-06 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  This has more to do with unimaginative user interfaces. How hard would it be to "pin" one page and have a button to flick back and forth between the page you're currently reading and the pinned one?
Re:More shatterproof by Hazel+Bergeron · 2011-09-05 23:04 · Score: 0

Since you're continuing with the pedantry, English is descriptive. "Very unique" means "contains lots of unique characteristics and/or characteristics which are markedly different rather than just slightly different". This image may apply to you.
Re:More shatterproof by maxwell+demon · 2011-09-05 23:06 · Score: 0

Well, there are gradations of "unique" - being unique depends on the definition of sameness (if you are strict enough in your definition, every macroscopic object is unique). So something is "more unique" if it differs more from other, similar things, so you can apply a less strict definition of equivalence.
For example, a seven-wheeled car would be more unique than a car with a very special shade of blue not found in other cars.

--
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Needs a TFT panel behind the eInk layer by AC-x · 2011-09-05 23:09 · Score: 1

From the video it sounds like that what comes off the roll is just the eInk layer (pigment capsules etc) which then needs to be laminated to a TFT panel that actually controls the pixels, so you cant just plug that roll in and have a 1km long working screen unfortunately.
Do you work for HP by any chance? by Kupfernigk · 2011-09-05 23:21 · Score: 1

I thought printer makers were the last people in the world to think that USL outvolumes A4.
Hint: the population of the EU considerably outnumbers the population of the US, and most of the world's commercial printers are now designed around ISO sizes, whether sheet or web. As for the printer makers, you could regard it as a subtle insult: Europeans are intelligent enough to change the default setting to A4, Americans are considered insufficiently intelligent to change from A4 to USL. (The real reason is that a change to a default of A4 would reduce the reported print speed and cartridge life.)

--
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
16x16x16 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-05 23:24 · Score: 0

So instead of #FFFF00 you get #FF0. Woot
Interviewer is a moron. by bjwest · 2011-09-06 10:06 · Score: 1

Several times he asked the same damn question and still didn't understand that the small sample was an actual unit.
I couldn't watch the full video because of his idiotic questions It's obvious he's not a technically minded individual, and seemed to have a hard time grasping how eink technology works.

--

--- Keep the choice with the user..
1. Re:Interviewer is a moron. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 10:31 · Score: 0
  
  Well said - the interviewer was indeed a bloody moron, how the interviewee didn't lose his rag is beyond me - I think he was trying not to laugh after the interviewer (or 'moron' as I prefer to call him) actually said 'Micro ants'... the interviewee (sorry, not clear if his name is the one on the Youtube description, or if that's the interviewer's name, as it's worded so ambiguously) sounded like he was 'losing it' a bit, right after he heard 'Micro ants'... probably never heard that one before. Probably doesn't have to deal with people quite so STUPID in his daily life, when he's talking to similarly intelligent people who are generating amazing technology.
  So a big thumbs up to E-ink, and the interviewer should find another job.
You must have seen this before... by DusterBar · 2011-09-06 11:03 · Score: 1

You had to have seen this video before then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQHX-SjgQvQ

Warning: Do not drink near keyboard while watching
Weird Interviewer by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-06 16:20 · Score: 0

Did anyone else notice how squirrely that interviewer was acting? It seemed like that poor E-Ink rep was getting a little freaked out at times.
Re: A4 sized... by krischik · 2011-09-06 19:35 · Score: 1

Because it could only be sold to 5% of the world population. The rest of the world want an A4 (210mm×297mm) sized reader.
And it does not matter if you don't care what it cost. A proper business plan will look at what the majority of potential customers what and can afford.
Only in your country. by krischik · 2011-09-06 19:40 · Score: 1

Just in case you don't know: The US is the *ONLY* country left in the world which still uses inches and letter sized paper. The rest of the world — including GB — uses metric measurements and A4 paper.