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Evaluating the 'Doofus Factor' In Corporate Governance

PolygamousRanchKid writes with this quote from an article in the Economist: "The directors of Yahoo! were 'so spooked by being cast as the worst board in the country' that they fired Carol Bartz as chief executive 'to show that they're not the doofuses that they are.' That was Ms Bartz's typically blunt verdict, offered to Fortune after she was dismissed with a phone call by the internet firm's chairman, Roy Bostock, on September 6th. She would say that. Yet Ms Bartz's criticisms of the board have been sympathetically received. Firing a chief executive by phone smacks of hasty, panicky decision-making. And Yahoo!'s board already had a poor reputation, having turned down an offer from Microsoft that valued the firm at several times what it is worth today. It is not just Yahoo!'s board that is feeling the heat. The directors of HP, another stumbling Silicon Valley giant, have been accused of serial ineptitude spanning the appointment and dismissal of Carly Fiorina as chief executive, the firing of her successor, Mark Hurd, and the selection of his replacement, Léo Apotheker. ... There is growing demand for boards to undergo a formal evaluation process, to assess both the performance of each individual board member and how they work together as a group. The European Union is considering new regulations that would require an independent evaluation of the board every three years."

44 of 204 comments (clear)

  1. Money by sonicmerlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A significant amount of research has been conducted that demonstrates monetary incentives that are too high actually severely decreases the effectiveness and productivity of a person to levels even lower than when monetary incentives are too low. I have no doubt this happening to corporate CEO boards across the western world. Any of these corporations could hire perfectly competent CEOs from business schools for 1/10 their current pay. But like frat boys they all sit on each others' boards and give each other multimillion dollar raises, bonuses, and parachutes, all at the investors' expense.

    1. Re:Money by jhoegl · · Score: 2

      They also pay people to tell the government to bail them out through tax loopholes, tax breaks, and other means.

      To be fair, the government is not exactly happy that a company that employs so many directly and many more indirectly is faltering, but what else can they do to prevent this huge job market loss?

    2. Re:Money by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But like frat boys they all sit on each others' boards and give each other multimillion dollar raises, bonuses, and parachutes, all at the investors' expense.

      In Ireland, there were only around 40 or so company directors amongst all the major bank, company and state boards. Most of these were also businessmen, CEOs, or managers. As you can imagine, nest padding was a primary activity. When the state property agency NAMA was created, one of the first acts of the board was to increase the chairman's salary by 70%. I imagine similar outrages occur in the US.

      The proper here isn't "doofus factors" or anything to do with individual boards. The problem is that the entire business and governance culture of the western world is no longer functioning properly. It has become mired in corruption, greed, fraud, and mismanagement. Yet still we tolerate crooks and doofuses because seemingly everyone agrees that this is the best way to run things. Our prevalent financial worldviews are unable to explain or understand why things aren't working anymore.

      Personally, I feel that a "financial reformation" is needed in our society. Something literally of the magnitude of the Protestant reformation in the 1500s. We need to turn away from the corrupt established church of business and economics and find new business philosophies. We need to find a system which prevents doofuses, grubbers, and psychopaths from running our companies. We need a system in which shareholders are investors instead of gamblers.

      We need a new way of doing business, and even of thinking about and understanding business. Otherwise we'll end up with companies like Yahoo, Microsoft, NASA, and Bank of America being run into the ground by directors, managers,and shareholders who at best have no idea what they're doing, and who at worst will actively destroy the company for personal gain.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    3. Re:Money by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oddly, the party that professes "personal responsibility" is the one that pushes for corporations as people that have no responsibilities most. As long as the US puts quarterly profits above all personable responsibility of those running it and "personal responsibility" is something to be pushed on the poor through laws that fine poor for not paying corporations for private health insurance (to corporations who have no responsibility to anyone, save the legal minimum to stay in business).

    4. Re:Money by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Supporting the small business and individual entrepreneurship that actually employs over half of the workforce would be a good start. Small businesses don't just pull up stakes and go to China and tend not to do as much offshoring (it simply doesn't make as much sense, even in the short term for small business). They don't (and can't) throw a tantrum and threaten the regional economy unless they get special treatment. They're not too big to fail and they're not too big to punish when they commit crimes.

    5. Re:Money by LifesABeach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These series of past corporate handled events affecting entire governments causes me to ask, "why are multinational conglomerates allowed to enter a country, suck it dry of wealth, then leave, unjudged."

    6. Re:Money by LifesABeach · · Score: 2

      There are a group of grinning predators that will not stop you. Your prosperity is their food; and you would embrace them; why? You want us to believe that you'll be spared?

    7. Re:Money by cavebison · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally, I feel that a "financial reformation" is needed in our society.

      You can't change the entire world's way of doing business in one go. Note that the Protestant movement resulted in several wars, which I'm sure isn't something you're prescribing here. :)

      No, passing a couple of laws would probably suffice. For example:

      1. The primary responsibilities of the board should be to customers, employees and ethics, and *then* to shareholders.

      2. The system of share trading should be slowly wound back, so that the value of a company is not defined by the value of shares on a share market.

      The share market is what causes, in my mind, 90% of the problems in capitalism, as it forces public companies to ensure their profits *increase* over time.

      A family business is happy with a consistent profit. A public company must have increasing profits - continual growth. We should know by now this is a completely toxic situation for everyone. It forces companies to find ever cheaper labour and materials, etc. until something gives.

      Eventually the board and CEOs get the feeling it's all coming unstuck, and that results in panic moves to ensure their own personal financial security. Which is understandable in a way, because they were trapped into doing what they did, by a system that demands the impossible - continual growth.

    8. Re:Money by Alex+Belits · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since they have no incentive to make a profit, they usually don't have any incentive to run thing efficiently either.

      Incentives no longer work, anyway. The only reason, any progress happens at all, is that smart people would die of boredom otherwise. This is the only thing that motivates me and everyone I know.

      Which is basically what you get with municipal run companies

      This is a situation where Socialism gets leftovers from Capitalism.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  2. Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by s-whs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And fire them!

    There was a recent Horizon programme (BBC) which said that psychopaths are 4 times more likely to be in the boards of businesses etc., than in other jobs.

    Not surprising. I knew these people are good at manipulating, on my website I named a bunch since 2003 related to airtravel industry and Schiphol in particular, and that is actually what they are often picked for. To manipulate in the media etc. I'm not sure if this was just a recap of old research or new, if new then these researchers are not too bright (then again, what can you expect in the social sciences).

    One of these researchers said it was hard to find the psyochopaths. Oh really? I can pick them out almost instantly. A good tool is reversible arguments. E.g. one such a-hole working for a dutch airport that wanted to expand said of those who were opposed and stopped it multiple times in court that 'a few times is ok, but this is ridiculous'. The same can be said of those a-holes of that airport. There plannes had been blocked by the courts, and yet these a-holes kept going against it and making new plans and/or getting the judgement overturned. So, he did exactly what he accused the opposing party of because it was unacceptable.

    Try it! Look at someone you think is the biggest a-hole you ever saw (which are typically psychopaths who care nothing about anyone except themselves), and try looking for a reversible argument. I bet you will find one ore probably multiple.

    Once we get rid of these people in boards of companies, perhaps life will improve.

    Oh yes, the programme also said that these psychopaths can manipulate, make themselves look good to some people, but their performance is crap... Doesn't surprise me again, reminds me of former Schiphol director Cerfontaine, who has never amounted to anything, never did anything useful for any company even if the guys who hire him think so.

    Even worse actually is that such morons (don't call them clever, they are not, as I said, with a few things to look out for you can easily push through their bulllshit-artistry), are even gettign honorary jobs at universities, perverting students...

    1. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by giorgist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Junk ... this is an example of statistical manipulation for emphasis. If it is four times more likely to be psychopaths , and the ratio is 1 in a million. Then all you have is 4 in a million.

      Simply put, these groups suffer from group think. Happens to every group, and we likley suffer from it as well (e.g. in any group of like thinking people say organized religions, sport clubs, political followers). They can walk down a one way dead and each will pat each other on the back all the way.

      PS: Do not forget, it may take a marginal psychopath to run those companies. Your statistics did not say if these psychopaths are the successful CEOs or not.

    2. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by CrazyDuke · · Score: 2

      I cannot say for Great Britain, but the estimated occurrence rate of people with Antisocial Personality Disorder is ~4%, about 1 in 25 people. Four times that would be about 1 in 6. Beyond that, it all ignores the broader issue of Cluster B personality disorders (IE: Antisocial, Narcissistic, Histrionic, Borderline) in general, which make up just under 10% of the US population. I am curious as to how many of those make it into the board rooms, executive suites, and public offices. If that factor is even close to 4x, sweet lord...

      I would take that 4 times with a grain of salt unless it is backed up with some evidence or at least some sound reasoning, though.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    3. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by darthwader · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your "reversible argument" test would work about as well as the "see if they have two eyes and a nose" test. For a test to be useful, you need to ensure:
      a) If a person meets the criteria of the test, they are a psychopath.
      b) If a person isn't a psychopath, they won't meet the criteria of the test.

      Reversible arguments are really common in all humans, not just psychopaths. It's a common belief that when other people do something, it's bad, but when I do the same thing, it's OK. Generally this is justified by the already-established belief that I'm right, and the other people are wrong.

      Psychopaths are defined by a lack of empathy and emotional depth, and they are generally really good at faking empathy and emotions. They are extremely hard to test for.

      --
      I hate it when I make a joke and I get modded "+5 insightful". Mod the stupid comments "funny", not "insightful", pleas
    4. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by CrazyDuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      The reversible argument is just a common pastime that allows people to try to dump blame for something on others. It is not unique to sociopaths. What you are looking for is a systematic disregard for the rules and standards of society and violating the rights of others, especially including breaking those in such a way as they do not usually get punished for it. This can be either because of careful planning, manipulation of peers, making it a hassle for others to stop them, appealing to pity, political influence, etc...

      To put it frankly, you are looking for a pervasive, but not necessarily omnipresent, pattern.

      A few things to help you out though:

      - They do not honor commitments unless it is specifically in their self interest to do so, such as to impress someone important.

      - When they are confronted, they will almost never admit responsibility unless they themselves recognize it is advantageous to do so. They will usually either fly off into a rage to scare you away or others into stopping you or launch into a ridiculous appeal for pity, complete with all sorts of BS mind-games like the one you mentioned.

      - They get board easy and are frequently impulsive. So, they like to find people to brag about their exploits to if they cannot find something or someone new to torment and destroy, bonus points if they can torment someone while bragging to them.

      - They feel that being antisocial makes them smarter than everyone else, because having a conscience retards us and makes us easy to mess with.

      - They like collecting tools to do their dirty work for them. But, will actively eliminate anyone deemed to be a competitive threat to them, often using the aforementioned.

      - They can mimic complex emotional expressions, but the top half of their face frequently does not match the rest of the body.

      - One tell tail I have noticed is the wicked "I have won!" gleeful smile accompanied by hollow eyes when they are actively terrorizing someone or something and getting away with it.

      That ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    5. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the only difference was how they thought, then no one would care about psychopaths. But they do, so obviously, there's some difference in actions.

    6. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by damnal · · Score: 2

      If I recall the one study correctly it was that successful CEOs often display some of the traits of an anti-social personality. Let me point out one thing, the moral ambivalence, from an anti-social personality, tends to lend itself well to strategic decisions. The risk-reward equation is much simpler when there isn't an emotional factor.

    7. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 3, Informative

      Speaking of bullshit-artistry, you just constructed a nearly-incoherent post that consists of slapping a new name on hypocrisy and claiming that you can pick psychopaths (a group of people known for their ability to lie) out almost instantly, and you got a +4 insightful mod out of it. Way to go!

      By the way, you should contact the psychiatric association of whatever country you live in, I'm sure they'll be interested in your amazing ability to diagnose mental ailments.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    8. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by microbox · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Junk

      Interesting that you just think you know this, even though the statistical rate of psychopaths is 1-4% for men.

      Every human being should do themselves a favour and watch Kathryn Shultz's TED lecture on being wrong.

      As for /needing/ to be a marginal psychopath to run a company -- this suggests that you really don't know what a psychopath is. A psychopath is a mimic that cheats on the social programming on regular people. Thinking that psychopaths have a place in society is like think that pedophiles have a place in society. It is a dangerous pathology.

      Perhaps you need to be a marginal pedophile to be a priest?

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    9. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 2

      Interesting that you just think you know this, even though the statistical rate of psychopaths is 1-4% for men.

      ..

      Thinking that psychopaths have a place in society is like think that pedophiles have a place in society. It is a dangerous pathology.

      If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying that 1-4% of men (and presumably some other percentage of women) have no place in society. If I've got that right then what exactly would you propose to do with all these people?

      --
      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
    10. Re:Do a test to find the psychopaths/sociopaths... by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Extremists from both sides accuse each other of dirty politics, moderates agree with both camps on that point.

      A specific example of the "reversible argument" from the far left would be greenpeace (correctly) accusing the heartland institute of peddling anti-science propaganda about AGW, while GP themselves are busy peddling anti-science propaganda about chlorinated water. But I do agree, for me, examples of the "reversible argument" are much easier to spot on the far right.

      Disclaimer - I've been a moderate green lefty since the 70's, but in the US I would probably be considered a tool of the devil by the Christian right.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  3. On a scale of 1-10... by h4x354x0r · · Score: 2

    ...Most boards and CEO's score a doofus factor of 11. And, they are darned proud of that! It shows true innovation.

    --
    They were right - the revolution did not get televised. It was posted on YouTube instead. All in 120 characters. SLOOSH!
    1. Re:On a scale of 1-10... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sadly when you are dealing with a doofus corp you can't even hire from within because middle management is usually dipshits as well.

      I had one client that I told I didn't have time to be their admin after setting up their system, but I'd put them in touch with a couple of competent admins that were rock solid, take their pick. What did they do? Some PHB decided 'they cost too much! i know a guy who's a wiz at computers! I bet he could do it" and I bet the admins out there can already see where THIS is going.

      Well I get called back in a little over a year after their "wiz" got caught looking at porn and running a Q3 server when he was supposed to be working and they were having "little problems"...little problems my Irish ass. this genius had GOT RID OF THE DESKTOPS that I had bought because they were 'too weak" and built gamer desktops piecemeal from tigerdirect, so give up making images or deploying anything as NOTHING matched, got rid of my standard Sonicwall for a bunch of those shitty blue DLink routers and was using a bunch of HOME CONNECTIONS from various ISPs. Somebody want more speed? he'd hire another ISP. Needless to say I had to shitcan the whole thing but the PHB had already gotten his bonus and moved on so didn't get the blame.

      And it is THAT, that right there, that to me marks the dufus problem in a nutshell. it is upward failure where doing dumbshit yields a quick gain followed by a HORRIBLE outcome, but the gain gets the dufus moved up or a "selling point" on his resume and he/she is out of their before the excrement hits the bladed cooling device.

      I mean how many guys here have dealt with a company butchering IT and then they acted amazed when the shit falls apart? or tries to get too much done with too little and the first real problem is a trainwreck of biblical proportions? That is why I got out of corporate, got tired at beating my head against the wall while dealing with shit that went right off the stupid meter scale. Hell I have a buddy still in who actually got drug to regional HQ by a PHB that wanted him fired because, and I quote "You have NO RIGHT to tell me who I can speak to! You WILL let my emails through from Melissa through or you're fired!" That's right folks, he was fighting FOR the right to get infected! Lucky the regional head knew a tiny bit and watched the news so he knew what the Melissa bug was, otherwise he could have been fired.

      I just can't take that level of dumbshit anymore, I just can't. At least with SOHOs, SMBs, and Home Users, they KNOW they don't know shit and that is why they hire me, so that I can tell them what to do and help them be smart and safe. With corporate there always seemed to be someone who knew just enough to be dangerous as hell, and had just enough power to serious fuck the whole works. Some guy who thinks he knows IT, or some bean counter who think the gear will last another two years when they cheapskated and bought cheap shit in the first place that started dying when the warranty went, just ignorant dumb stupid ass...ugh. If you still do corporate? My prayers are with you friend, may you have a strong stomach and have an immunity to headaches.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    2. Re:On a scale of 1-10... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      As long as the HAL isn't too different, you can image a Windows machine using only native drivers, and install 3rd party drivers post image rollout. But having to work with a bunch of custom gaming rigs in an office environment is a major PITA for a number of reasons. 1. They're not stable machines by virtue they could be over-clocked. Also, slapping random parts together can yield some pretty interesting compatibility issues down the line. 2. Non-uniform hardware is being used per machine. Can make replacement and testing a bitch 3. No extended warranty, and only the original builder keeps track of the hardware recepts. 4. Future upgrading and troubleshooting takes more time and research. Time = money in business.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:On a scale of 1-10... by PrimeNumber · · Score: 2

      You are talking about corporate, academia I am finding out to my chagrin, is no better and in many cases actually worse. Case in point: I am one of two developers (senior of the two) hired to work on a new web project at a respected university. The junior "developer" from day one argued (and almost convinced) management that we should use the standard install images given to students with all control panel/configuration functionality disabled and locked down.

      Failing that, he then thinks because he took a "project management" class from a cert. factory, convinces our management to design applications like one would in Access, because well thats what he did when he designed in-house Access applications, and he is "qualified" so it must be right. Being academics they swallow this shite like a crack-deprived prostitute.

      Now management has announced this great work is worthy of a lateral promotion (he hasn't managed to write any code that has worked in 6 months) because they "are trying to find something he is good at".

      This is just the small cherry on top of the shit mountain of endless, childish, degrading, touchy-feely debates on a daily basis, because everything has to be vetted and discussed "academic style". In this world politics is king, accomplishments, experience, and "real-world" knowledge mean nothing. All aspects of my programming job are "subjective" and need debate, micro management to the sub-atomic level.

      Recently, with mgmt. and my incompetent coworker, I found myself explaining and needless to say, debating the merits of data validation. I discovered everything I know about data validation doesn't apply there, because they know the people that enter the data, and they do a good job and therefore just don't know if data validation is worth the time and extra cost. I argued for data validation as any competent developer would.

      I lost this argument. Fuck. Me.

      I will take your corporate job, at least you don't have fucking nightmares and get chest pains whilst thinking about the future need to debate object oriented programming or error trapping.

    4. Re:On a scale of 1-10... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Dude, friend, mind a little advice? buy yourself some cheap off lease desktops and laptops and rent a little spot and open your own shop. you'll never get rich but you know what? PEOPLE LISTEN TO YOU, they don't treat you like a moron, just the opposite, people treat you like you are a genius and will always defer to your judgement, you get to help out real folks who are real grateful, and if you aren't married you'll also find women like a guy that's handy.

      And I know EXACTLY how you feel, as I'd have chest pains and a pretty much constant headache. I literally ate so many BC powders that a prick on the finger would bleed for an hour, the stress was literally killing me. When I told my nephews what I was thinking of they said "Please do uncle, we'd rather have you alive than have your money" and then proceeded to tell me how corpse like I looked.

      Now I have my color back, I spend my weekends playing bass in a trio just to enjoy being creative again, life is good. I don't make anything like I once did, and it can be feast or famine, but you know what? I'm a thousand times happier and feel a hell of a lot better than I ever did dealing with corp. And it is damned nice to know there are hundreds of machines built and set up by me that are safe, secure, and run well, making their owners happy. I even had the local checkout girl ask me "Hey, would you please follow me to the parking lot and tell me if you can upgrade this computer that was given to me?" and I laughed hard when I saw it. She started to cry and I said "Oh I'm not laughing at you honey, I'm laughing at the fact that was one of my first builds and even has my initials on the bottom, see?". It had been running for nearly 7 years without fail, the chip had finally just gotten too slow for all the FB bling bling crap. I knew money was tight for her so I sold her an old P4 3GHz board with 1Gb of RAM for $80 and threw in the install. Now it is doing everything she wants and even helps her kids with homework thanks to the Open Office I installed.

      Its a nice feeling helping folks, and makes the lower pay WELL worth it IMHO.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:On a scale of 1-10... by thomst · · Score: 4, Interesting

      hairyfeet opined:

      THAT, that right there, that to me marks the dufus problem in a nutshell. it is upward failure where doing dumbshit yields a quick gain followed by a HORRIBLE outcome, but the gain gets the dufus moved up or a "selling point" on his resume and he/she is out of their before the excrement hits the bladed cooling device.

      What you have just described is the fundamental career philosophy behind the MBA. To state it another way, the default MBA business strategy is: "Ramp up short-term profitability by whatever means is necessary/convenient, regardless of long-term consequences for the company, because by the time those consequences arise, you will have been hired away to work at a different company, at a higher pay grade, and dealing with those consequences will have become somebody else's problem.

      The problem for the Western economy is that, ever since the Reagan administration (or the Thatcher administration, or the Mitterand administration, or ... but you get the picture), MBAs have progressively grown in influence to a position of utterly dominating corporate governance in every country outside of China. It is they who are responsible for exporting the bulk of Western industrial production to developing countries, it is they who were responsible for creating and marketing poisonous mortgage-backed derivative securities (and thereby crashing the global economy - a process that is only now reaching its middle, rather than ending), and it is they who dominate corporate boardrooms.

      It's not so much that they are psychopaths. It's that they have been trained to be psychopaths by the most prestigious business schools in the Western world. And this all in the name of delivering maximum value to shareholders.

      The problem with the MBA philosophy is that the only shareholders that matter - because they are by far the largest shareholders - are institutional shareholders: insurance companies, pension funds, banks, and so on. And these shareholders' investment portfolios are run by - you guessed it - MBAs, who have absolutely no loyalty to anyone or anything except themselves. They'll kick a fundamentally-sound stock to the curb in a heartbeat, so long as their spreadsheets tell them that a company down the block is offering higher short-term profits, regardless of how unsound that new company's long-term outlook might be, because they don't invest for the long term.

      Which, incidentally, is why Wall Street and its fraternal counterparts have been experiencing day-to-day mood swings like a bipolar teenager with PMS. In fact, that phenomenon is a result of the MBA-mediated migration to algorithmically-based automated trading systems, which, by intent completely ignore long-term value in favor of short-term gains produced by, essentially, day-trading on a massive scale.

      And, short of outlawing MBAs and hanging all existing holders of the degree, I see absolutely zero chance that this utterly broken system that rewards only MBAs will - or, for that matter, can - change for the better any time in the forseeable future.

      --
      Check out my novel.
  4. Interesting problem by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interesting considering that board members are elected BY stockholders, and are supposed to represent their interests. Let them vote for the craziest folks they dare, as long as they vote for them. It seems silly that you would subject board members to arbitrary tests when they've won the acclamation of their shareholders.

    Of course this highlights a big problem with corporate governance, namely that boards are elected by stockholders, but a combination of stockholder disinterest and large institutional and mutual fund investment in firms has led to the composition of the board ballot being decided by the CEO and management.

    There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you don't want "doofuses" on your board of directors, don't vote for them. Setting up some sort of independent review system is simply going to present stockholders with another stream of information to ignore. If you believe in democratic corporate governance you have to let people vote for who they want, and accept the responsibility for what happens to the business. The fact that Carol Bartz did a pretty lame job running AOL, and that the company has been on a death spiral ever since the Time Warner merger -- and for practical reasons will probably never figure out how to make their combined business a going concern -- has a lot more to do with the poor performance of the firm, notwithstanding the board.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    1. Re:Interesting problem by smellotron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The "stockholders" consist of fund managers and traders who are simply engaged in gambling. They don't care about who runs the company, because they will likely be out of the stock by the end of the week.

      You should review Yahoo's DEF-14A. Yes, the top three stockholders appeared to be funds. No, they're probably not trading it actively, because trying to buy or sell 90 million shares is guaranteed to move the price against you. Yes, they're interested in the company's chief officers, but probably only for quarterly profit, and not the long-term (decades and beyond) success of Yahoo!.

      In the case of HFT operations, shares are held for milliseconds, with no human even knowing which companies were invested in.

      You can bet your ass that every HFT operation knows YHOO; there is always a person behind the algorithm. And yes, there's probably a large share volume being traded by HFT algorithms and market makers. However, the total number shares owned by these organizations at "voting time" is probably next to nothing. You don't get voting rights just for having the stock passed through your hands: you actually have to hold onto it (at least for one day), which is antithetical to any form of day-trading.

      The whole stock market and share system has become a den of rank iniquity. But people still believe in it, and still trust their life savings to it.

      Someone who is entrusting their entire savings to the stock market is either (1) young, (2) stupid, or (3) isn't paying attention. For retirement investments, the stock market is advertised as high-risk/high-reward and is not suitable for lump-sum liquidation. I agree with you that too many Americans don't treat it this way, and this is a travesty. But please don't be bitter at the stock market for being the speculative arena that it always has been.

  5. boards don't really make any sense by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They don't run companies effectively because they aren't really in charge of the company. Most board members do completely different things as day jobs. Some are on five or six boards. You cannot effectively run six multinational companies and also have a day job at a seventh, though you can surely succeed at pulling in seven salaries.

    For example, when there were some shady stores about Cisco coming out earlier this year, I looked up their board to see who I could contact. Oh, one of them is the President of Stanford University. How much time do you think the President of Stanford spends keeping tabs on Cisco's corporate affairs, making sure that the company is run properly? Another one is, uh, Carol Bartz, until recently the CEO of Yahoo being discussed here. How much time do you think Carol Bartz took out of her Yahoo day job to make sure Cisco was being responsibly governed? Yet another Cisco board member; Michele Burns, CEO of Mercer, the world's largest H.R. consulting firm. Do you think she spent lots of her free time, when not running Mercer, to make sure Cisco is doing things right?

    No, in practice, the boards don't have any idea what's going on, the CEOs all sit on each others' boards anyway, and the boards therefore leave things to the CEO, ignorance-is-bliss style, until someone forces them to care, either because the stock price is tanking, there is bad media attention, or unwelcome attention from prosecutors.

    1. Re:boards don't really make any sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a very insightful comment - few people seem to understand how heavily corporate boards are "cross-pollinated" with one another's members. The same is basically true of the major shareholders for many companies as well. There's a prevailing notion that shareholders are basically a large and broad field of individual "Mom and Pop" investors when in many cases the shareholders constitute a small and deeply entrenched class of extremely wealthy individuals or trusts who own significant holdings across many industries.

    2. Re:boards don't really make any sense by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      The function of a board is oversight. You can't run a company by committee, and you can't run it with an unaccountable CEO either. More shareholder transparency would be good, but shareholders can't play this role because (a) they have even less time than boards do and (b) competitors could buy a single share of stock and gain access to all of a company's sensitive strategy.

      So, boards are actually a pretty good idea. But that doesn't mean the implementation is always good. If you are CEO, you want a weak, uninvolved board.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:boards don't really make any sense by sjames · · Score: 2

      So, boards are actually a pretty good idea. But that doesn't mean the implementation is always good. If you are CEO, you want a weak, uninvolved board.

      Actually, you want the CEOs of the various companies whose boards you sit on to be the board that oversees you. You let them slide as they let you slide.

      That's why even when the CEO is all but escorted from the building by security, they have job offers lined up before the door even closes behind them. There's people they've let slide who owe them one, and they're already known to be willing to play ball.

  6. Re:Interesting problem stockholders have no real s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually the courts have restricted the nomination of directors on the corp proxy statement to those nominated by the incumbents. Unless you have a lot of money you can't win a proxy fight. The club protects itself with nominating committees picking only those good ole persons who fit their mold. The SEC tried to let 5% of shareholders nominated director candidates on the corp proxy, but the incumbents said it would be the end of the world and went to court and won that the SEC did not do the job right. So a shareholder (small) really can only sell. Now if you have 15% of the company or more you can probably get the boards attention. Today board elections remind me of elections in the old soviet union, one candidate in most cases. So corp america is really an ole (boys and girls) club.

  7. Firing always works by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    James Carville, who was Clinton's right hand man just wrote advice to Obama, on how to look more compentent. His advise was to do lots of firings to appear in charge and for them to be scapegoats.

    It works for past presidents like Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr. Surely, the board did this for the same reason to appear like they are doing their jobs etc. Many in upper management reading this can relate to newer guys coming and firing people in order to appear all scary and powerful to their new employer.

    Most of the smart people who pay attention can see right through this.

    1. Re:Firing always works by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      You support the constitution, right? Well off the top of my head...

      Perry wants to repeal the 16th & 17th amendments (source his 2010 book). You think the economy is in a bad way now and congress is controlled by mega-corps? - What will it look like when the feds can't collect income taxes and senators are appointed rather than elected? Also, Perry's recent "pray for rain day" stunt makes a mockery of the 1st.

      Bachman wants to disband the federal reserve and replace it with...I don't know...fairy dust? I don't think she even understands the constitution since her light bulb bill would have required Congress to trample all over the executive branch's enumerated powers.

      These people may call themselves “constitutional conservatives”, but from my vantage point they walk and talk like extremists.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  8. Market maturing faster than leadership by erroneus · · Score: 2

    At the end of the dot-com boom, people thought the market 'had matured' and I had my doubts. Well, they did get over the gold rush of buying everything they saw and acting on every idea anyone had, but the players that remained felt they had accomplished something and believed they knew it all. But in reality, the dot-com bust signalled the pre-adolescent period of the market -- approximately the same age kids begin to understand what death is.

    Many of the players are still reacting to the changes of the market and few are leading. Yahoo lost its command of the market long before the dot-com and have been sustaining themselves on their old glory and people's reluctance to change their chat and email addresses. They don't listen to their users and often abuse and discourage them when they use their services in ways yahoo hadn't anticipated. Their teenage arrogance made them feel they knew it all and had it all under control and when they finally saw they didn't, well... the reactions and results speak for themselves don't they?

    HP and Yahoo just look like a pack of fools and I think many will agree that they simply are. And while Google encourages fandom in all forms by its users and customers, HP and Yahoo have a record and reputation for discouraging, suppressing and even litigating against their users. (Only the MPAA and RIAA can actually sue their customers and expect to survive... not so much Yahoo and HP and their ilk... they don't have a true oligopoly in such a fluid market as 'the net')

  9. I'm confused... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is it that sacking peons as fast and impersonally as possible makes you a strong, visionary, leader who is willing to make tough decisions; but sacking your CEO good and hard makes you a panicky dumbass?

    1. Re:I'm confused... by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

      Why is it that sacking peons as fast and impersonally as possible makes you a strong, visionary, leader who is willing to make tough decisions; but sacking your CEO good and hard makes you a panicky dumbass?

      Because your CEO is well-connected enough to have friends in the media.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    2. Re:I'm confused... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People who have the ear of the press have seen one their own callously fired by voicemail. That is, they have seen one of their own treated exactly the same way they have treated millions of peons year after year and that frightens them and bursts their psychotic delusion that they are somehow intrinsically better than the people they treat like garbage.

  10. Multi-faceted issue. by mevets · · Score: 2

    Remember when that flight attendant pulled the emergency line, told everyone to fuck off and quit in a most convincing style?

    He was a bit of a hero in many peoples minds. The Yahoo! CEO! deserves at least as much of this as him; but the underlying problem remains the same.

    Holding a BOD to any sort of responsibility is a great theory; but it runs against current practice. Often, the appointment is be a reward for sychophants, rent boys or sadsacks. Changing this could be a major upset of corporate organization.

  11. Stumbled upon an interesting search topic by Datamonstar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Check out the search history for "Carly Fiorina" on slashdot and you'll find a slew of articles leading up to this one:

    2002: Fiorina says HP may get out of the PC business.
    2004: The Uncertain Promise of Utility Computing
    2005: HP CEO Carly Fiorina to step down.
    . . . An Engineer's view of Carly Fiorina's Leadership (Story later retracted by TechnologyReview on the grounds that they can no longer vouch for it. Interesting.. )
    . . . HP and Apple Separate; Apple gets custody. (OOPS!)
    2006: Forbes now thinks Carly saved HP
    . . . HP regains throne as top PC maker
    2007: Ex-HP CEO Carly Fiorina hired by Fox News
    2011: This article, which suggests, again, that Fiorina was perhaps making the right moves all along.

    As much as the geek crowd hated to see what was happening to HP, it definitely that perhaps Cloud Computing and handhelds were the go too thing after all and that the execs that fired her just couldn't see The Big Picture. One for sure though, is as sad as it was to see the engineering innovation go, it's even sadder to see the company struggling to recover from the series of "oops" that sent it into it's current downward spiral.

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
  12. ... new way of doing business by beachdog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In this current down economic climate (referring to the time period 2008 to 2011) neither boards of directors, nor management nor the government looks good.

    Sort of incidentally (following on a college education that had about 4 semesters of American history and American culture classes) I have been puzzling about the American corporation and reading the occasional book on the subject. The first thing I feel these books show is that American corporations are creatures caught within the economic and cultural currents of the time. Sorry but I am naming the titles from memory.

    The last book on the list is The Decline and Fall of the American Auto Industry, published around 2009 a few months after the General Motors bailout. Here is a book that principally tells the story of the decline of General Motors Corporation with vignettes of decisions and policies forced upon top management and the GM board of directors from about 1970 down to the bailout. These are the years where General Motors could do everything except build a good small car. At the board of directors level, the choices kept being matters of avoiding the more awful.The board of directors finally wound up with a General Manager whose speciality was promising things would be better. The problem that was never ever solved (and still isn't solved in my opinion) is how to make a 4 cylinder engine as good as the 1700 cc Honda (and keep it in production even if it costs a few dollars more.). No board of directors can solve that problem.

    The next two corporation books are: My Years with General Motors by Alfred P. Sloan (mid 1960's) and the 1950 vintage classic about General Motors, The Concept of the Corporation by Peter Drucker. These books are the classic duo about a big corporation and a really gifted and eloquent Chief Executive Officer. The only problem is both books were written in the middle of a 40 year richest in the world expansion of the mass production automobile. In the present down economy,the same high quality people sitting on the Board and occupying the top management simply do not look as good... no matter what they do.

    Regarding your wish for a new way of doing business, I would say look back at the 1980's... The Regan Presidency Years... where job security began to evaporate. That was the era when the conglomerate corporation began to operate. This is when the process of buying up smaller corporations and doing obscene things to their balance sheets and business plans began. A social history of this era up to the present (not focused very clearly on Corporations) is The Great Inflation and It's Aftermath by Samuelson.

    So one way of looking for a new way of doing business is to ask, how can we change the economy of scale back so that stable, quality, relatively low profit and low debt Corporations are not subject to being bought up, stripped of their cash, move the manufacturing to contract offshore factories, loaded with debt and resold on the stock market to investors. Recent corporations worthy of study are Sunbeam, Mr. Coffee and Kidde (fire extinguishers).

  13. Large Hierarchies Insane; Story from Texas by BrianMarshall · · Score: 2

    Many years ago, I realized that the larger and more layered a hierarchy is, the more insane it is. As TFA and most posts have pointed out, the board does not do what a board should do. The President/CEO is generally (generalizing, here) outward-facing, mostly concerned with how the organization is perceived. Vice-Presidents are... well, vice-presidents - some are good but many are either competing to be the next President or are too scared to do anything that they are not already doing. Middle management are often simply paper shufflers, maybe trying to do a good job but not important enough to really change anything. Lower managers can actually see what is happening in the company, but their view is so at odds with the view of upper management that they are powerless.

    In short, those on top don't know what is happening, those close to the action are ignored by those at the top, at best, or act only out of fear or ambition, at worst.

    Interesting story: I was a "super-consultant" (read: contractor) at a large, old tech company in Texas back in the '90s, working as part of a team to install a major system. I was working on some bit of code, realized that the approach I was taking was not going to work, and said something like "This is never going to work!". Seconds later, just as I was starting a different approach, the girl in the next cubicle - an employee and my main contact - called me into her cubicle and... said basically that she could not believe this, that my behavior was totally unacceptable... Her reaction would have been appropriate if I had stood on my desk and yelled "This stupid project is never going to work and this stupid company should never have started it".

    Short version: expressing any doubt about anything in the company, even the bit of code I had been working on for ten minutes, was totally forbidden.

    The message seemed to be "You are happy about everything that happens in this company or you are fired."

    --
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST