Google Preps Devs For One-Size-Fits-All Android

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Google Preps Devs For One-Size-Fits-All Android

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday September 20, 2011 @12:16AM from the ways-in-which-operating-systems-are-like-sweatpants dept.

alphadogg writes "Google is preparing Android developers for the latest edition of its Android mobile operating platform that will work the same on both tablets and smartphones. Scott Main, the lead tech writer for Google's Android Developers Blog, reminded developers on Monday that the newest edition of Android — dubbed 'Ice Cream Sandwich' — will 'support big screens, small screens and everything in between.' Main also emphasized that Android would maintain 'the same version ... on all screen sizes' going forward."

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Biggest thing is SUPPORT by GeneralTurgidson · 2011-09-20 00:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

Google needs to force the carriers to keep their androids up to date. This buy a new phone for the latest android version is bullshit.
1. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by obarthelemy · 2011-09-20 00:27 · Score: 2
  
  I think that won't happen because phone manufacturers want to keep selling phones, and carriers want you to commit to another 2yr contract for your subsidy.
  The realistic best we can get is hackable phones and CM7, because hacking frightens most people off so it won't break that upgrade loop as far as most users are concerned; and it targets geeks who will mostly update asap anyway.
  
  --
  The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
2. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Xest · 2011-09-20 00:41 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  To be fair everyone whinged and whinged and whinged about the HTC Magic on Vodafone in the UK not being updated from 1.6.
  Then they updated it from 1.6 to 2.2 and it turned out that yeah the hardware really was a bit too shitty to support the new version decently. The same has happened with iOS where the oldest supported model tends to run shit with the most newly released update.
  I sympathise with some as some phones really can and should be updated, but sometimes there's also good reason not to update phones too. I spoken to someone at Vodafone outside of their official work setting where they could be a bit more frank and he said they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't - by not updating they got tons and tons and tons of flak, but then when they finally updated the Magic they then got loads and loads of flak from people complaining their phone was slow, and couldn't run some of the newer 2.2 only apps very well, the net result being post update they actually saw a higher burden of complaints. I know Vodafone et al isn't blameless when it comes to updates, far from it, their messing around with the Desire was just silly, but hearing this other side of the story was interesting. There are very real concerns for carriers if they allow any old update on any old phone - because they provide the phone people go to them for support when things go to shit.
3. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by beelsebob · 2011-09-20 00:43 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  And yet somehow, Apple, who does also want to keep selling phones, manage to ship at least 2 major OS updates to every device they ship.
4. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-20 00:44 · Score: 1
  
  Google needs to force the carriers to keep their androids up to date. This buy a new phone for the latest android version is bullshit.
  Them and what army?
  If you were a cell phone carier, would you push updates? Think of the deluge of support calls from upset customers who don't understand why a button moved or a menu changed color in the update. The cost of talking to all those customers is huge. Making a few nerds happy that they have the latest version is a bad business decision.
  Google released software under a permissive licence, with no strings attached. This means the carriers will do whatever they want. Google can set a good example by building their own phone and shipping updates. If you really care, you can buy that phone.
5. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by MrNaz · 2011-09-20 00:48 · Score: 2
  
  There's this thing called "business strategy". It's a fairly complex subject, but the only part that you seem to need to know is that it is not identical for every company selling competing products.
  
  --
  I hate printers.
6. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by ceoyoyo · 2011-09-20 00:48 · Score: 2
  
  Apple strong armed the carriers. Do it our way or no iPhone for you, and they make the device so they can do whatever they want with it. Google doesn't make phones and individual android manufacturers aren't powerful enough to bully the carriers. Google probably wants everyone to be able to update but the carriers really, really want you to sign that contract extension if you want a new phone.
7. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-09-20 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Mod parent up. If you know to ask for Cyanogenmod, you can DOWNLOAD cyaogenmod. Warning: car analogy: if you want a high performance 4-barrel carburetor in your mini-van, you'll have to install it yourself.
8. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by asdf7890 · 2011-09-20 01:04 · Score: 2
  
  Prior to Google buying motorola this was my reason for not bothering to look at Andriod phones next time I needed to change for some reason (like when the hinge on this thing dies or there is a security flaw found that can't be fixed without an upgrade I'm not permitted to apply). Apple supports their devices with updates far longer, though I'm not planning to play the Apple game for other reasons (which basically leaves Windows as my next option as blakcberry isn't gonig anywhere).
  
  When new models get released under the now-owned-by-Google-motorola-mobile flag perhaps they will permit them to be upgraded and this will force other manufacturers to do the same to remain competative. Unless of course they only bought that for the patents and simply won't be releasing any hardware...
9. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by MoonBuggy · 2011-09-20 01:07 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  A fair point, but it doesn't explain the logic behind the far, far more annoying practise of installing carrier-branded firmware. It is (in my experience) invariably slower, buggier, and less frequently (often never) updated than the generic version. Thankfully it seems to be flagging a little as customers begin to understand what 'firmware' is, but it's by no means extinct. You've already signed a contract promising to continue giving them money for the next year or two, so it's not like the advertising impact of that shiny new theme in $Carrier'sColour is going to do much good to anyone - why on earth do they still insist on spending money on coders to produce these abominations?
10. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Desler · 2011-09-20 01:11 · Score: 1
  
  Only for 18 months and the carriers still have a way to get out of it by saying the hardware can't handle the update.
11. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by MoonBuggy · 2011-09-20 01:12 · Score: 2
  
  Push updates? Nothing beyond bugfixes, and even then probably with a clear 'opt out' button. There's a whole gulf of possibilities between over-the-air auto updates and the current practise of locking the bootloader to prevent customers from doing their own goddamn thing, should they so choose, though.
12. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by TouchAndGo · 2011-09-20 01:15 · Score: 1
  
  And how many different devices with Android are on the market at the same time? There's a difference between doing 2 major updates for one specific piece of hardware on one (now two) carriers, and doing multiple updates on dozens of different phones, all with different hardware, across multiple carriers. Although this is also why people have been complaining that google needs to force manufacturers to conform to some kind of spec if they want to use android.
13. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by sam0737 · 2011-09-20 01:15 · Score: 1
  
  Yes they are damned. They chose to bundle the phone and the contract, and brand the phone etc etc.
  If people were just buying the phone themselves, and get SIM card from the carrier, complaints won't be directed to the carrier.
  So yes, they are damned anyway.
14. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by slim · 2011-09-20 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  My HTC Desire came with Android 2.1, got an official OTA update to 2.2, and I'm currently running 2.3 Cyanogenmod on it. HTC at first said they weren't going to provide an official 2.3, but have since said they'll release one.
  That's pretty good going in my opinion.
  I don't expect the Desire to support >2.3 since already in 2.3 system memory is tight.
15. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Andy+Dodd · 2011-09-20 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Google clearly realizes this, and I believe that was part of their reasons for withholding 3.x source - to give them more leverage while they figured out how to resolve the fragmentation fiasco.
  Update latencies for Honeycomb devices are the lowest I've seen on average for any Android revision. No one seems to take more than 1-2 months to release an update.
  The question is - can they continue exercising their anti-fragmentation leverage once they've released source? Probably - they've shown the device manufacturers that they're willing to play hardball, and will probably use Google Apps/Android Market licensing as their leverage going forward.
  
  --
  retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
16. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by robmv · 2011-09-20 01:27 · Score: 2
  
  The same can be said about the Nexus line of phones, but people still buy other brands
17. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by babblefrog · 2011-09-20 01:34 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  At some point, they will be forced to do some kind of updates, if only to deal with security issues. Imagine how things would be if Microsoft never sent out patches for Windows. That's what Android will be like in the future if the manufacturers and carriers don't get together and address this problem. Remember the days of the "I love you" and Melissa viruses? I'd rather not.
18. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by MoonBuggy · 2011-09-20 01:36 · Score: 2
  
  Update latencies for Honeycomb devices are the lowest I've seen on average for any Android revision. No one seems to take more than 1-2 months to release an update.
  I'm not entirely up to date with the tablet market, but I have to wonder whether this is due to a difference in customer expectation rather than in Google's strategy. The market for "tablets that aren't an iPad" is significantly more geek-oriented than the market for Android phones, not to mention that tablets fall much closer to "computer" (which even non-geeks expect to come with a level of upgradability and customisability) than "phone" (which, until fairly recently, didn't generally have customisable firmware or software of any kind). Couple that with the fact that phone companies have probably got you tied in for a few years anyway, and it seems like a company slow to update its tablets would be far worse of than one slow to update its phones.
19. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by hansamurai · 2011-09-20 01:40 · Score: 2
  
  My wife, sister, mom, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, and father-in-law all have Android phones, actually only two variations among them. I would root them all if I could, but it voids the warranty, and I don't want to be _that_ guy who screws people from getting their phone fixed. Instead, I just listen to them complain about City ID, etc. Ah well.
  
  --
  Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
20. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by tepples · 2011-09-20 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  and the carriers still have a way to get out of it by saying the hardware can't handle the update.
  But if the CyanogenMod guys show that everything in the update can be ported to the new handset, what good-faith excuse will the carrier continue to have?
21. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Eponymous+Coward · 2011-09-20 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  Them and what army?
  How about the army of lawyers who would love to sue the deep pocketed phone companies when they do nothing to fix well known security problems and somebody is harmed by their negligence.
22. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by grnrckt94 · 2011-09-20 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  What Google needs to force is unlocked bootloaders & carriers maintaining their code in the source tree, so that users can update their version whenever they want... IE - Nexus stylee
23. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Desler · 2011-09-20 01:55 · Score: 2
  
  Being able to port it to the handset does not mean it will run WELL on the handset. As I said, the manufacturers will just say the new version will not run well on the hardware and they get out of the commitment.
24. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Xest · 2011-09-20 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  I don't disagree with that, I think it's a fair point - carriers should leave firmware the fuck alone. I just think there has to be a distinction between when a phone can be upgraded by a carrier and isn't, and when a phone is not worth upgrading by a carrier. I think the viewpoint many have that their phones should always be upgraded to the latest version no matter how old they are can lead to problems for carriers and consumers alike that many consumers aren't even aware of. It sounds corner but sometimes carriers are keeping that upgrade from you for your own good as many people discovered with the Magic.
25. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Xest · 2011-09-20 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  I think you missed the point. Even if they give customers a choice, if they offer a bad choice then customers will still hold them to account when they inevitably make that bad choice because the bad choice lured them with some promises of shiny new features that just wont work on their well out of date handset.
  The problem is that even given a choice, customers wont accept responsibility for their actions when they make a bad choice, they still blame the carrier.
26. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Bert64 · 2011-09-20 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  Only on mainstream computers, which cause MAJOR hassle for consumers on a daily basis... Updates, malware, etc...
  On any other consumer technology, there is even less to change... Updates are rare, devices are generally not meant to be customised.
  Computers today are geek tools, they really are not suitable for use by the general public.
  
  --
  http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
27. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by moronoxyd · 2011-09-20 02:46 · Score: 2
  
  Apple does not only sell hardware, but also content (apps, music, movies, whatnot).
  So they still earn money from customers who do not buy a new phone. And they earn more if they make the new features available for those customers.
  Most companies that sell Android ore Windows Phone devices do not offer any or much content, so they need the customers to buy hardware to earn money.
28. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-20 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  Complication: Many manufacturers deliberatly design their phones to prevent user modification, including the use of anti-tamper technologies of varying degrees of efficacy and sophistication. If you want to use cyanogen mod, you're depending upon the skill and luck of hackers in an arms race.
29. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Dorkmunder · 2011-09-20 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, same sort of experience here with the HTC EVO. Can't really complain. HTC\Sprint even released a full 2.3 version (complete with ability to remove some bloatware) although by then I was using a Synergy ROM instead as it added some of the newer Sense UI stuff. Thing is, the EVO was a top phone a year ago but is barely able to run Gingerbread with all the new Sense UI stuff now (yes, I know, I can go with CM7 to get a snappier experience but I prefer the Synergy ROM's as they are stable as hell, have good battery life with the right kernel and everything works) so I wouldn't even want HTC to continue to update it. In addition, my Sprint store has never balked at my rooted phone even when I needed my device replaced due to the MicroUSB port failing on an early revision of the phone. I'd say that is a pretty dang good experience; two updates, two new kernels, full customization possibilities, great dev community, tons of mods.
30. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by chrb · 2011-09-20 03:23 · Score: 2
  
  Apple is as bad as any of the other manufacturers. The iPhone 3G was superceded by the international release of the 3GS in July/August 2009, and the last software update was November 2010. For people who bought a 3G just before the 3GS was released, that's 15 months before updates were cut off. At least with Android you can install Cyanogen to get the latest software.
31. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by spire3661 · 2011-09-20 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  THe Cyanogen mod guys would have NO legal standing in this matter. Whatever they say would be completely and utterly irrelevant as what they do is NOT manufacture phones, they hack them. They have no idea of the relevant costs of producing a phone. Im not saying they arent useful, but your proposal is not based in any kind of reality at all. TL:DR Just because some hackers in a garage can do it, doesnt mean its FEASIBLE for a multi-national to do so.
  
  --
  Good-bye
32. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by trcooper · 2011-09-20 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  I bought my Droid Incredible with Eclair, and they've upgraded it to 2.2, and most recently 2.3. It wasn't as quick as most would have liked, but I can't say that I'm languishing with the same version that I initially had. My wife's Evo also is up to 2.3.
  The beauty is most Android devices are easily hackable and you are not at the mercy of the provider. In most cases its trivial to install a custom ROM, and for those for whom it isn't, they're probably fine with the older versions. I hope we've turned the corner on trying to lock devices down at any cost.
  If quick updates to the latest version are your thing Cyanogenmod is out there. If I was running a device that didn't have sense on it I'd be all in on it. As it is, sense is actually a good overlay when compared to touchwiz or blur.
  I can't wait for what CM does with Ice Cream Sandwich. I will run that on my GalTab 10.1, and then won't have to worry about Samsung coming out with their official.
33. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
34. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by BitZtream · 2011-09-20 03:49 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  The difference is:
  People want to buy an iPhone.
  If they can't afford an iPhone, they'll by an Android device that looks kinda the same and does most of the same stuff, but its not an iPhone ... :(
  So ... Apple can say 'do what we tell you' and the carriers say 'Okay, please keep sending us the most sought after cell phone in existence, we want those recuring customers'
  On the other hand, Android makers say 'Pretty please with sugar on top, PLEASE sell our copycat android device that no one actually ASKS FOR BY NAME', and the carriers say 'Okay, but heres all the shit you're going to have to do to it if you want us to bother with it' and if the Android device maker says 'no', the carrier says 'Okay, well only 300 other cheap knock off handsets EXACTLY LIKE THAT ONE to choose from, I'm sure one of those guys will be our bitch'
  You don't get to call the shots when you're the guy making the cheap chinese knock offs, only the guy making the original item that everyone ACTUALLY WANTs get to call the shots.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
35. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  I have to second the point about Sprint not balking at custom ROMs. My girlfriend's Epic 4G is running Synergy 1.2 and the people at the Sprint store didn't even blink when she brought it in to get the camera replaced. Very good experience.
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
36. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  Shut the fuck up.
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
37. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Code+Yanker · 2011-09-20 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Phone is a good example here. They don't make much money on content, they don't make much money on search, but they still ship updates. The only real source of money is the OS and dev lisences (sort of), but they still ship updates. They don't have leverage over anyone, but they still hound the carriers to ship their updates. I wish the management of every platform would act like they had tiny market share.
38. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by tycoex · 2011-09-20 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like you should buy a Nexus phone like I did.
39. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by davester666 · 2011-09-20 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  At least with Android you might be able to install Cyanogen to get the latest software.
  FTFY
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
40. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by CAIMLAS · 2011-09-20 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  I would argue that there's really no good reason why the later android builds can't be made to work on the older phones. There are a number of Android phones with some fairly minimal specifications (500MHz CPU, 128-256Mb of RAM) which are quite responsive with the 2.3.x android build, and there are a number of phones that perform poorly simply due to the specific software build, not necessarily the "newness" or "featureful" nature of the software.
  As an HTC HD2 owner, having tried a number of different ROMs, I've noticed that there is a huge variance in performance even on the same basic kernel/android version due to how the ROM was set up - everything from the specific 'tweaks' on how dalvik/caching/CPU is configured to which managers and widgets are used.
  
  --
  ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
41. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by coinreturn · 2011-09-20 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  Apple is as bad as any of the other manufacturers. The iPhone 3G was superceded by the international release of the 3GS in July/August 2009, and the last software update was November 2010. For people who bought a 3G just before the 3GS was released, that's 15 months before updates were cut off. At least with Android you can install Cyanogen to get the latest software.
  What you fail to point out is that the 3G was introduced 06/09/08, which means it continued to receive software upgrades for 2 and a half years. Has any Android manufacturer provided two and half years of OS upgrades? I didn't think so.
42. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Danny+Rathjens · 2011-09-20 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  You just unroot it if you need to take it in for a warranty replacement. I did just that. It's quite painless nowadays with all the howtos and utilities folks have developed to make it easy.
43. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Unequivocal · 2011-09-20 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  The converse is also true - I know a few people who have iphone3 phones and who upgraded to iphone4 b/c the regular upgrades made their phones unusable. I suggested they jail break the iphone3 and go back to an earlier OS version (not even sure if this is possible not being an iphone user) but they weren't interested.
  My Droid Eris is a lot slower than it used to be due to all the upgrades, but of course I do know that I can back-grade to an earlier OS version to get some speed back if it becomes unworkable for me.
  But the carriers and manufacturers have plenty of incentive to over-upgrade your existing device to encourage you to go buy a new one. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing a final "upgrade" release timed just about 2 years after the initial release so as to encourage users with their now too slow phones to go get new ones..
44. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Rob+Y. · 2011-09-20 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  This may be a stupid question, but just how hard is it to update the Android version on a device?
  It took ages for Google to put out a gingerbread update for the Nexus One. I've got a Nook Color running CM7, and the 7.1 gingerbread update for that is taking a really long time to go stable. Assuming one Android version runs on a device, what actually needs to be done to get the next version to run? What exactly are the Cyanogen folks tweaking in their nightly releases? Presumably they're using the latest gingerbread source code as is, and not fixing coding bugs.
  Also, while I'm at it, does anybody think Ice Cream Sandwich is gonna run on the Nexus One or the NC? Or is gingerbread the end of the road for these 'older' devices? And if so, is that because of memory constraints? Processor speed?
  
  --
  Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
45. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:39 · Score: 2
  
  I honestly don't give a shit about their "business strategy". All I know is that Apple is keeping devices up to date far longer than most of the Android vendors. That gives them a couple points over the Android makers in that regard.
46. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  That's their problem, not mine. Remember, its the manufacturers that need to make the updates, not Google.
47. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  Mainly because the Nexus phones aren't available on all carriers. If I was on Verizon, I'd be out of luck.
48. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  What the fuck are you smoking? The iPhone 3G was released in July 2008. It got iOS 4.2.1 in November 2010. That's more than TWO YEARS of updates. It also originally shipped with iOS 2.0, meaning it got two major updates during that time. Most Android handsets are lucky if they get one, and not the one that just came out.
49. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  As good as the CM guys are, just because they can get a version onto a phone doesn't mean it will work WELL. There's a world of difference between the testing they do and the testing the OEMs do.
50. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  Or they could put it into the requirements for putting the Google Apps on the phone. Not many people want to buy a phone without the Android Market on there.
51. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by chrb · 2011-09-20 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  Does it make any sense to measure the support length starting from the device's initial release date, rather than from the date that sales are ended? If you are going to argue that would be a reasonable metric, then it would be acceptable to stop supporting devices that are still being sold in the shops, as long as the phone's initial release date was a couple of years ago! That doesn't seem like a useful metric.
52. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by chrb · 2011-09-20 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  The iPhone 3G was released in July 2008.
  And when was the last one sold? As I posted elsewhere: Does it make any sense to measure the support length starting from the device's initial release date, rather than from the date that sales are ended? If you are going to argue that would be a reasonable metric, then it would be acceptable to stop supporting devices that are still being sold in the shops, as long as the phone's initial release date was a couple of years ago! That doesn't seem like a useful metric.
53. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by coinreturn · 2011-09-20 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  It may not be a useful metric. However, way up there it was claimed that Android phone makers do not upgrade the OS at all and subsequent post said Apple was "just as bad." I claim that upgrading the OS for 2 and a half years after first selling is substantially better than not at all.
54. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-20 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  If the phone manufacturers have signed the agreement where they are legally required to release OS updates for their phones unless hardware can handle the update, the presence of a CM version of the same update running on their hardware would seemingly be a valid indicator that hardware can handle it.
55. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by Belial6 · 2011-09-20 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  You are what they call a "Fanboy". No. People don't buy Android phones because they can't afford iPhones.
56. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-21 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  Oh fuck off. Yes, because I don't put the business's profits and needs before my own, I clearly have "no concept of other people."
57. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-21 04:49 · Score: 1
  
  And when was the last one sold?
  Who the fuck cares? The fact of the matter is, the phone received more than 2 years worth of updates. Hell, if you're gonna go with that completely bullshit remark, then the majority of Android devices have never gotten any updates. So yes, the most useful metric is when the phone was first sold. Even phones sold a year after still get the benefit of the updates.
  Oh, and not to derail your little anti-Apple fanboy rant, but the 3G was still sold after the 3GS was released.
58. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by chrb · 2011-09-21 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  So yes, the most useful metric is when the phone was first sold.
  If you really think this is the most useful metric, then how come nobody actually uses it? How come no businesses or analysts measure it? Why do real businesses care about End of Life (EOL) support instead? And applying your logic to Microsoft - if Microsoft were to stop all updates for Windows 7 right now, then nobody should complain, even if they bought a PC yesterday, because Windows 7 was released two years ago?
59. Re:Biggest thing is SUPPORT by s73v3r · 2011-09-22 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  Considering even that copy of Windows 7 has still had the benefit of 2 years worth of updates baked in, sure.
Oh goody. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-20 00:22 · Score: 1

More of the software where I can't delete certain apps without rooting the device.
Deep Joy...
{apps such as Twitter is what I'm talking about}
1. Re:Oh goody. by El+Capitaine · 2011-09-20 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  I think the difference is the fact that it is completely impossible to remove OEM bloatware on Android phones unless you root first...on Windows you can uninstall it (although some stuff might be left around esp. with bloatware...try revo uninstaller) and with Ubuntu you can just apt-get remove. They don't try to actively prevent you from removing the crap.
2. Re:Oh goody. by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  How do I uninstall calculator? Or notepad? Or any of the other programs included with Windows that would be called "bloatware" on any other platform?
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
3. Re:Oh goody. by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 06:01 · Score: 1
  
  When I can install a replacement but I can't uninstall the one that came with it, it counts as bloatware.
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
4. Re:Oh goody. by BitZtream · 2011-09-20 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  The only device I have that doesn't have a calculator and a notepad on it, is my car radio.
  My phone has a calculator and a notepad app, both of which are apps I would be pissed it didn't come with, they are extremely handy.
  Lets see, my TV has a calculator and a message thingy that is sort of like a scratch pad/note taking place.
  Of course every Desktop OS has both, as does my iPad (and every other tablet I've seen).
  Lets see, this little 8088 HP palmtop PC I have from 1996 ... yep, it has a calculator and editor built in, though the calculator didn't come with the OS (which was DOS), the edit.com did.
  Of course a calculator and notepad don't generally run on start and stay in the background, which is generally the real problem with bloatware.
  What OS are you using, that is so lame that it DOESN'T come with a calculator and notepad app in the base distro?
  Your definition of bloatware seems to be 'it comes with Windows', which is a pretty retarded definition for obvious reasons.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
5. Re:Oh goody. by oakgrove · 2011-09-20 06:58 · Score: 2
  
  Of course a calculator and notepad don't generally run on start and stay in the background, which is generally the real problem with bloatware.
  The real problem with bloatware is whatever the owner of the device thinks the real problem is. The clue there is the owner. You know, the person that should have the final say as to what is on their computer and what isn't. And notepad and calculator were just examples. I don't have a Windows computer at my disposal here to find other ones like, oh, I don't know, defrag, firewall, and other various and sundry replaceable yet uninstallable crapware. Furthermore, the difference is notepad and calculator are uninstallable whether I find a better replacement or not. If I can completely obviate my need for notepad by installing notepad++, I should be able to remove notepad from my computer. If I cannot, then, by definition, it is bloatware no matter how small or trivial. On Linux, for example, you can do this. And Android doesn't even come with a text editor by default so if a device has one, the OEM put it in there.
  
  Your definition of bloatware seems to be 'it comes with Windows', which is a pretty retarded definition for obvious reasons.
  Do you regularly abuse people in real life when you disagree with them? Do you think that makes you cool?
  
  --
  The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
The interesting thing... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-09-20 00:40 · Score: 2

I'll be interested to see how they handle the UI design. Architecturally, resolution and screen size independence aren't exactly trivial(especially if you are on a serious battery budget and can't just scream "THROW MORE FUCKING VECTORS AT IT!!!" any time you run into a scaling question); but, so long as the device's screen is accurately reporting its resolution, size, and DPI, it isn't a thicket of unsolved or fundamentally intractable problems.

The question of how to do a UI that scales to make efficient use of different screen sizes, though, is a bit trickier: the best UI for a teeny little screen almost certainly isn't suited to a larger one, or to a large, but low resolution, TV-style screen at a good distance from the user.

Are they just going to have a few hardcoded presets(phone, tablet, TV?) that use the same architectural foundation? Will it be a single 'windowing' mechanism that follows certain layout rules that result in different effects based on screen size and DPI?
1. Re:The interesting thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-20 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  I know it's trite to tell people to read the article, but RTFA. The second link has diagrams and everything.
2. Re:The interesting thing... by MoonBuggy · 2011-09-20 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  There are 'buckets' based on resolution (small, normal, large, XL - roughly corresponding to 'old phone, newer phone, 7" tablet, 10" tablet) but for finer grained control you can also numerically specify screen widths in units of 'dp' (not 'dpi'), a figure based on the total number of pixels available at a given density. There's a good amount of info here, which was linked within TFA.
3. Re:The interesting thing... by jo42 · 2011-09-20 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  I'll be interested to see how they handle the UI design.
  Google has had over a year and a half to see how this is done. Where Apple leads, Google and Microsoft follow...
4. Re:The interesting thing... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-20 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  Given that Apple's approach to app scaling - which is pretty much "well, you define two separate UIs for iPhone and iPad, and if you don't we'll bitmap-scale you cuz we don't have proper layouts" - is not only completely different from what Android does, it's also the single worst method of handling UI scaling among all mobile platforms to date.
Re:You don't "GET IT", do you? by MysteriousPreacher · 2011-09-20 00:45 · Score: 1

Ostensibly random capitalization of words is the retarded alternative to writing in such a way that people don't need fucking big "emphasis here" signs vomited all over a post that could contain some sense, buried under a ton of Gene Rayesque obfuscation and general word wankery.

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-- Using the preview button since 2005
Re:And... what? by MrNaz · 2011-09-20 00:46 · Score: 1

When it's profitable for them to do so.

--
I hate printers.
NASCAR by stephanruby · 2011-09-20 00:46 · Score: 2

Twitter, I wouldn't mind. It's more apps like NASCAR that I couldn't care less about. Are there really that many fans of NASCAR on Sprint??? What's next?? an unremovable app for Vagesil on all Sprint phones??? It's not like Sprint is a low-cost carrier to begin with.
the phone reports it by jDeepbeep · 2011-09-20 00:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Are they just going to have a few hardcoded presets(phone, tablet, TV?) that use the same architectural foundation? Will it be a single 'windowing' mechanism that follows certain layout rules that result in different effects based on screen size and DPI?
Android has been doing this for a while, choosing at runtime which resources to serve up based on DPI. The source tree of an Android app has 3 'drawable' directories under res/ (drawable-ldpi, drawable-mdpi, and drawable-hdpi) and it picks the best one for each situation.

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Reply to That ||
1. Re:the phone reports it by JAlexoi · 2011-09-20 01:14 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Don't forget drawable-xhdpi and other -ldpi, -mdpi, -hdpi, -xhdpi, -nodpi, -tvdpi, -large, -small, etc...
  FYI: The guide has been recently updated http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html
2. Re:the phone reports it by jDeepbeep · 2011-09-20 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. I'll look into it.
  
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  Reply to That ||
3. Re:the phone reports it by pjlehtim · 2011-09-20 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  I've written a blog post about various methods Android framework provides to devs to support multiple screens. http://www.androiduipatterns.com/2011/05/designing-scalable-android-apps.html These tools aren't new. Then again we do expect to see more utilities and components like automatically adapting Action Bar featured in one of the pictures.
4. Re:the phone reports it by jDeepbeep · 2011-09-20 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Bookmarked.
  
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  Reply to That ||
Re:You don't "GET IT", do you? by MrNaz · 2011-09-20 00:53 · Score: 2

Literacy at a level where people can communicate between the lines died decades ago. It's very hard to hide from the onslaught of lolspeak, the conflation of they're/their/there/your/you're and other linguistic degeneracies. Encouraging people to communicate in an intelligent manner? Not going to happen. Not with this generation.

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I hate printers.
Re:grrrrr by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-09-20 00:54 · Score: 1, Offtopic

And when you post AC after modding, the mods you made are rolled back (and lost).
Honeycomb source? by elashish14 · 2011-09-20 00:59 · Score: 1

Are we going to see it released once ICS starts rolling out?

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I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
1. Re:Honeycomb source? by Desler · 2011-09-20 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  No.
2. Re:Honeycomb source? by Jmc23 · 2011-09-20 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you even care? Seriously?
  
  --
  Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
3. Re:Honeycomb source? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-20 08:44 · Score: 1
  
  Couldn't they just merge all revisions done for Honeycomb in a single big 2.x->4.0 one before making the tree public?
I welcome this... by bhunachchicken · 2011-09-20 01:24 · Score: 1

... now, if Google could only find a way to be able to push out Android OS updates onto ALL handsets, regardless of manufacturers, we'd be cooking with gas.
Android's greatest asset is that it's open*. Sadly, it's also it's greatest enemy. When Google creates a new version of Android, let's say Jelly Bean, everyone should be to upgrade to it, regardless of whether HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. made the phone.
Unfortunately, the manufacturers like to tweak stuff, almost to the point where things like Facebook are tied into the sodding ROM.
If Google can find a way around this and still allow the partners to pop out the phones, then you'll soon find that the only barrier to the upgrades will be your phone simply being too old (not enough RAM, for example).
My HTC Desire will never get an OS higher than 2.2, which is a shame as the OTA update feature sounds pretty cool.
I've no idea how they could do this, but I expect those with more knowledge of how OSes work would be able to answer.
(PS - please don't say that people can just root and install a custom ROM, as the average man on the street has no idea how to do this, and it is he things like this need to consider)
* no, don't start on what Stallman thinks - it's the closest you'll get to a phone that will has a global reach without closing it up entirely. A truly open system would be so fragmented that one would become completely unrecognisable from the other.

--
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
1. Re:I welcome this... by Microlith · 2011-09-20 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  * no, don't start on what Stallman thinks - it's the closest you'll get to a phone that will has a global reach without closing it up entirely. A truly open system would be so fragmented that one would become completely unrecognisable from the other.
  Bullshit. By this logic it's impossible to write software that runs on Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu and SuSE all at the same time, yet it happens every day. Google's success has nothing to do with reinventing the entire userspace, and everything to do with throwing money and hype behind it.
  People bitch about "fragmentation," but quite frankly that's a vendor and carrier induced problem that has no real good reason for existing aside from wanting to force you to upgrade.
  Android is not open. It is a closed source project that was hyped as being "open" but instead uses the AOSP as a dumping ground, whose community they treat like crap by pulling what they did with Honeycomb.
Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by eepok · 2011-09-20 01:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

I never played with an Android device until I bought my Asus Transformer. When I set it up for the first time, I thought all the requests for my Google identity info were just to set up accounts, but it turned out that the tablet was just like the phone-- Google still treats it as a personal device.
While this isn't new to someone who knew Android well already, it came as quite a shock to me. After all, I planned to use my tablet like a netbook-- handing it off to other people who need to use it when I don't. I can't do that, though, because all someone has to do is hit that GMAIL icon and be automatically signed into my accounts. The same with the Android Store.
What Android needs for me to fully enjoy using it as well as for me to suggest it for other users is to provide the option to treat the device like a potentially public device as does Windows, Linux, and Mac OS. It should not be assumed that the primary owner always has control of the device. It should require loging in for any GMAIL user and the device should not be tied directly to a Google account identity.
I'll continue to use my Asus Transformer as is, but only until there's a tablet friendly of Ubuntu up and running... or maybe I'll stick with Android if such changes are made. But until then, I won't be buying another tablet as an upgrade and I will continue to stay out of the smartphone market.
1. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by Lord+Grey · 2011-09-20 02:09 · Score: 2
  
  After all, I planned to use my tablet like a netbook-- handing it off to other people who need to use it when I don't. I can't do that, though, because all someone has to do is hit that GMAIL icon and be automatically signed into my accounts.
  
  Excellent point. All tablet vendors seem to be missing the multi-user feature, and they really need to add it. As you pointed out, tablets are less intensely personal and the owner is more apt to loan a tablet than they would a phone. A tablet is expensive enough to be a "family device" as well, where many people use it for slightly different things, like that desktop system sitting in the corner of the living room used to be, 15 years ago.
  In addition to supporting multiple users, I'd like to have a "no user" setting. That setting would disable all the personal apps (like an email or address book app) but leave the generic network surfing stuff visible. Maybe have which apps enabled/disabled setup as a preference. That would be handy when loaning the device to other people.
  
  --
  // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
2. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by LateArthurDent · 2011-09-20 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  What Android needs for me to fully enjoy using it as well as for me to suggest it for other users is to provide the option to treat the device like a potentially public device as does Windows, Linux, and Mac OS. It should not be assumed that the primary owner always has control of the device. It should require loging in for any GMAIL user and the device should not be tied directly to a Google account identity.
  No. In fact, HELL NO. The number one convenience that comes with android is the automatically tying in to Google services.
  I understand your problem, though. You just have the incorrect solution. What tablets need to do is have multiple user accounts (and include a guest account that doesn't even display apps like gmail or facebook). This way you log out, somebody else logs in, they have their account associated with it. Guest accounts for people who shouldn't be keeping a personal profile on your tablet.
3. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by cerberusss · 2011-09-20 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  You're a bit weird in this respect, most PCs are set up to one account as well. For example, Outlook doesn't ask you to log in everytime you start it. What you want is a multi-user environment on a device typically bought for a single user.
  Anyway, why not set up a dummy GMail account? Then replace the Mail icon with a shortcut to the GMail login page.
  
  --
  8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
4. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by wiredog · 2011-09-20 03:25 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps as an option, but not by default. Otherwise people will just buy Windows or Apple devices that don't require a login to use them.
  
  --
  
  Best Slashdot Co
5. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by hitmark · 2011-09-20 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  Funnily, that other Google OS project has this exact feature...
  
  --
  comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
6. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by eepok · 2011-09-20 04:28 · Score: 2
  
  Most PCs are set up with one account because almost all private things can be password protected. If you sign into Gmail from a PC, you have to enter a login and password. Not so with the stock Gmail program in Android. If you turn on Steam to download games, you can have to request a password-- not so much of a security feature with the Android store. The device always assumes that the main device owner is the device user. But that's not sufficient for tablets. Smartphones, yes. Tablets, less so.
  And Outlook asks me to log in every time I start it. As does my computer. What I want is a multi-user environment on a device that is likely to be used by multiple users as a tablet it.
  (Note: I don't see a tablet as a giant smart phone. I see it as a keyboard-less netbook.)
7. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by coinreturn · 2011-09-20 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  Hell no! It's my fucking iPad. Get your own.
8. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by sciencewhiz · 2011-09-20 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  You aren't the only one who wants this. 171 comments on an android issue. http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15030
9. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by gmhowell · 2011-09-20 11:20 · Score: 1
  
  Now if only the company that makes ChromeOS would help out the company that makes Android.
  
  --
  Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
10. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by markjhood2003 · 2011-09-20 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly this. I had the same experience with the iPad. I just didn't get that it was supposed to be a personal device and it was very confusing at first. It never occurred to me that a device costing hundreds of dollars wasn't expected to be shared by everybody in the family; I kept looking for ways to allow both my wife and I to use it without exposing each others personal stuff, and if finally dawned on me that Apple expected everybody to have their own iPad. WTF?
11. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by rdnetto · 2011-09-20 22:13 · Score: 1
  
  I'll continue to use my Asus Transformer as is, but only until there's a tablet friendly of Ubuntu up and running... or maybe I'll stick with Android if such changes are made. But until then, I won't be buying another tablet as an upgrade and I will continue to stay out of the smartphone market.
  Gnome 3 seems pretty tablet friendly. Admittedly, it does require hardware acceleration, but the modified kernel for running Ubuntu on the TF is due to support that in it's next release (which is due sometime in the next few weeks/months). I've been running Kubuntu on mine for several months now (admittedly with the keyboard attached, but with the touchpad disabled) and it's worked pretty well.
  
  --
  Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
12. Re:Yes, but will it support multiple users...? by ryocoon · 2011-09-22 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  There are secondary projects that allow for things like this. You _CAN_ strip all google identification and related products out of Android and still have a fairly decent OS (sans a number of Apps and such. Look at some of the el-cheapo tablets out of China and the like, also the rumored Amazon tablet will be based upon a fork of Android that they stripped out all the Google Services stuff.
  
  Also, there are projects to have "Profiles" of users, locations, or tasks that you can switch between. These can change preferences, homescreens, available apps and such. While these generally aren't part of the base stock OS (AOSP), they are being done by third party developers and some of them try to submit such changes upstream to the main repositories.
  
  There are also bits of code to put locks on apps (PIN, Password, Security swipes, time/location, etc) if you want. Hit a homescreen widget and it will lock the phone down into a guest mode. That way people can't go peeping at your apps which could cost you cash or try to impersonate you on twitter/facebook/G+/etc.
  
  Yes, none of this stuff is exactly a stock Android option. All of this is possible though. With time, some of this will filter upstream, and then back down to the handset manufacturers.
Re:And... what? by SighKoPath · 2011-09-20 01:45 · Score: 1

In other words: never.
CM7 users have to warez the Market by tepples · 2011-09-20 01:46 · Score: 1

The realistic best we can get is hackable phones and CM7
The problems with CyanogenMod are 1. loss of hardware warranty and 2. once you install it, you lose applications that are exclusive to Android Market, such as Chase Bank's check deposit application, unless you warez the Android Market application.
1. Re:CM7 users have to warez the Market by nschubach · 2011-09-20 02:06 · Score: 1
  
  I have CM7 and have full access to the android market. (Including the Chase Mobile app with deposit capability.) Where did you hear that there was no market?
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
2. Re:CM7 users have to warez the Market by tepples · 2011-09-20 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  I have CM7 and have full access to the android market.
  How did you reinstall the gapps after installing CM7?
3. Re:CM7 users have to warez the Market by kidgenius · 2011-09-20 02:39 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Seriously? CM tells you how to do this, as does rom manager, etc. Google and Cyanogen came to very nice terms quite some time ago about gapps. Cyanogen can't include it, but they are allowed to provide it as a separate package. So here you go: http://goo-inside.me/gapps/
4. Re:CM7 users have to warez the Market by nschubach · 2011-09-20 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  ROM Manager. If you have the Google apps installed on your phone, you have the rights to use them again... even if it's on another firmware. You paid the fee. It asked me if I wanted to transfer the apps to the new ROM, I said yes.
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
5. Re:CM7 users have to warez the Market by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Ummm, no? Every time I've installed CM, there's a corresponding pack with the Google Apps, that includes the market. Either I download that with CM, or if I use Rom Manager, it does it for me.
Carriers damn themselves by tepples · 2011-09-20 01:52 · Score: 1

If people were just buying the phone themselves, and get SIM card from the carrier, complaints won't be directed to the carrier.
In that case, carriers damn themselves by not offering a discount on service for buying a phone up front. T-Mobile has "Even More Plus", which includes such a discount, but it's rumored to disappear the moment the acquisition by AT&T closes. Two out of the three remaining nationwide carriers don't use removable subscriber identity modules anyway: instead of CSIM, the CDMA2000 carriers (VZW and Sprint) program the subscriber identity directly into the handset.
Sprint Cup Series by tepples · 2011-09-20 01:55 · Score: 1

Are there really that many fans of NASCAR on Sprint???
Sprint is the title sponsor of NASCAR's top racing series.
Soure code Source code Source code... by PinchDuck · 2011-09-20 01:56 · Score: 1

I want to up date my G-Tablet with ice cream sandwich. I'll also need some display drivers. I'm looking at you, NVidia.
(disclaimer: I'm a lazy parasite who has great toys because I benefit from the fruits of the labor of others. I don't actually need the source code and drivers, the awesome devs who breath new life into the G-Tablet on a monthly basis are the ones who will need them. Thank you all so much for your amazing efforts).
Hopefully this will mean.... by FunkyELF · 2011-09-20 01:57 · Score: 1

There will be tablet bodies that are screen only and no brains for me to plug my phone into.
Imagine where you could your phone as a phone, a tablet, or plug a keyboard / mouse into it and use it for browsing / word processing, etc.
1. Re:Hopefully this will mean.... by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-20 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  I think it is pretty obvious the future is heading towards your phone being so powerful you will be able to drop it into multiple types of docking stations and use it for a different task. When you go to work you drop your phone into your workstation dock and do your job. When you get home and want to watch a movie or listen to music, drop your phone into the multimedia dock. In a couple more years, you will be able to swipe your phone on your fridge and know what groceries to buy on your way home. You can already use your phone to pay for your groceries. A few years after that you will drop your phone into your car dock and have it drive you to work, to the grocery store, then home.
  
  --
  Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Pretty Universal by CritterNYC · 2011-09-20 02:08 · Score: 1

All the major tablet and phone OSes work this way, even the recently-defunct ones like WebOS, so I'm not sure why this is a surprise. These are designed to be personal individual devices used by one person. You want another login, buy another device. (That part is by design to sell more things).

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Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
SVG support? by Terrasque · 2011-09-20 02:14 · Score: 1

That's great.. So, any chance of getting some native SVG support for drawables?
There are some third party libs for it, but if you're going to actively target "any resolution" then svg support would be obvious, no?

--
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
YES!! And keyboard/touchpad cases (or docks) by sys_mast · 2011-09-20 02:33 · Score: 1

And while your at it, desktop docks with real screens and full keyboards and mice, for your phone. (though touch screen full size screens might come in handy since that's what we'll all be used to when not docked.
This is the future, it just depends on how long it take for a manufacture to come out with everything packaged correctly to be perfectly usable.
Asus transformer is a nice attempt, though reviews indicate it still has to many rough edges for mainstream acceptance.(never used one though)
Think about it, one device, take with you everywhere. All your software and documents with you anytime. We're basically getting there with hardware with mobile CPU's with 2+ cores, and 1+ Ghz. 32gb storage easy, and 64 or 128 not being far off.
About the only thing I'm not super excited about is the OS shift, though I've begun to accept the fact that to accomplish this unified personal computing platform, we'll need a new OS.

--
Those who can, do.
1. Re:YES!! And keyboard/touchpad cases (or docks) by bullale · 2011-09-20 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the KT Spider Phone? The hardware is there, it just needs the right software. I hope the OS can report the correct DPI to the app when it is plugged in to an external device.
2. Re:YES!! And keyboard/touchpad cases (or docks) by BitZtream · 2011-09-20 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  I hope the OS can report the correct DPI to the app when it is plugged in to an external device.
  No, you don't.
  You want the OS to be written in such a way that the app never needs to know what the DPI actually is.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Re:grrrrr by moronoxyd · 2011-09-20 02:41 · Score: 1

So I'm not part of 'most people'.
Good to know.
I'd like to see these terms by tepples · 2011-09-20 02:51 · Score: 1

Google and Cyanogen came to very nice terms quite some time ago about gapps.
Are there any public details about under what terms the separate package may be provided?
1. Re:I'd like to see these terms by gnarlyc · 2011-09-20 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  Google is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#cite_note-31 http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
2. Re:I'd like to see these terms by tepples · 2011-09-20 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  From the linked page on android-developers.blogspot.com: "Unauthorized distribution of this software harms us just like it would any other business, even if it's done with the best of intentions." I couldn't find the specific part stating clearly that the CM community's distribution of a separate gapps package is authorized. Would you please quote that part?
3. Re:I'd like to see these terms by gnarlyc · 2011-09-20 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see a part that clearly states they are authorized to distribute them either. The CM team created scripts that will backup the Gapps on the phone and restore them after flashing CM. It is my understanding that Google was ok with that. They did not continue to send C&D letters or take them to court. This was between Google and the CM team, and they appear to have resolved it in 2009. If your phone comes with the Google Apps installed, then you are entitled to have them on your phone. That was the point. Google appears to have had an issue with them being included in custom ROMs, but does not appear to have an issue with people flashing custom ROMs and putting Google Apps back afterward. Can I find something from Google stating that clearly? No. Does that mean it's not true? No. Their action and subsequent inaction makes it pretty clear to me. CyanogenMod is not exactly under the radar. If Google has an issue with how things are going now, they would start sending letters again. They have done it once already.
4. Re:I'd like to see these terms by tepples · 2011-09-20 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Backup apps, install ROM, restore apps. That solves the legal issue, but are the restored apps going to be compatible with the new ROM?
5. Re:I'd like to see these terms by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-20 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  If we are talking about CM and Google apps, then yes.
Breaking Up the System by Kamiza+Ikioi · 2011-09-20 03:40 · Score: 2

I think the fact that they are breaking up parts of the system into Apps that are automatically updated by Google will be fantastic, such as the browser. The more they break out of the base system, the more control they have over updates, ironically.
Also, they should take the opportunity to unify the UI a bit more. I'm not saying go iPhone, but I think it could be done better.
Any time people leave the default, you're not doing it well enough, be it a dev or a user, such as leaving the default keyboard for Swype, TouchPal, or FlexT9.
If they had a killer UI, it would discourage fragmentation. There are some great UIs out there that they could purchase and integrate, such as Go Launcher or ADW Launcher. I think they should also be stricter on the hardware so that there is also better driver support between phones. Then again, that's the CyanogenMod talking for me, which probably is less important to mainstream users.

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I8-D
In the future, yes... by Kamiza+Ikioi · 2011-09-20 03:43 · Score: 1

Just look at the Chromebook. I don't see why this wouldn't eventually translate. The problem is purchased apps. I can't imagine them letting you install a $20 app on a phone just because you borrowed it.
One mod does support Guests, from what I've read. MIUI. You have to root and flash to get it, just like CyanogenMod, but it's gotten great reviews.

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I8-D
Producing a firmware update for existing phones by tepples · 2011-09-20 03:45 · Score: 1

Whatever they say would be completely and utterly irrelevant [...] They have no idea of the relevant costs of producing a phone.
The phone manufacturer is trying to get out of producing a firmware update for existing phones, not get out of producing phones. The costs of producing a phone "would be completely and utterly irrelevant" to the costs of producing a firmware update for existing phones. If the CM team can produce a firmware update for existing phones, what makes it infeasible for a multinational to produce the same firmware update for existing phones?
1. Re:Producing a firmware update for existing phones by spire3661 · 2011-09-20 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  Part of the cost of producing a phone is ONGOING support and upgrades. Those costs are factored into the design stage. As I said, just because some guys in a garage can do it, doesnt mean it makes economic sense for a multi-national to. ITs not infeasible, but its most likely NOT PROFITABLE. Why update the old phone when they can sucker you into a new one? Thats the reality we are in.
  
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  Good-bye
2. Re:Producing a firmware update for existing phones by tepples · 2011-09-20 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  As I said, just because some guys in a garage can do it, doesnt mean it makes economic sense for a multi-national to.
  
  Perhaps it'll be easier to understand if I bring back the Underpants Gnomes meme.
  Step 1: Release specs to CM volunteers once new AOSP is out.
  Step 2: Test what the volunteers come up with and deploy it.
  Step 3: PROFITABLE!
  
  Why update the old phone when they can sucker you into a new one?
  Because Google says 18 months aren't up yet.
3. Re:Producing a firmware update for existing phones by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:50 · Score: 2
  
  Why the fuck should the "economic sense" come into play? We're asking them to support their god damned phone, and Google is trying to force them to do it.
I already read that by tepples · 2011-09-20 03:47 · Score: 1

I have read the page that you and other Anonymous Cowards have cited, and nothing on that page tells me clearly how the CM team is authorized to distribute the separate Google Apps package.
1. Re:I already read that by Verteiron · 2011-09-20 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  This would be a problem if the Cyanogenmod team were distributed Google Apps. They do not. It is the user's responsibility to load Google Apps onto their phone and ensure that all licensing requirements are met. I believe the official solution from CM is to back up your licensed Google Apps, flash CM, then restore the backed up apps.
  Granted, some 3rd party tools like Clockworkmod provide an easy means to download and install Google Apps, but Clockworkmod is not Cyanogenmod.
  
  --
  End of lesson. You may press the button.
2. Re:I already read that by s73v3r · 2011-09-20 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Who gives a fuck, honestly? Google is not going to go after you for downloading the Google Apps.
Re:Aha: A "wannabe master" of written English by Toonol · 2011-09-20 04:04 · Score: 1

Hmm? What?
Why don't they use a container? by sgt+scrub · 2011-09-20 04:25 · Score: 1

If the application is written for the smaller screen why not allow it to run in an area on the screen the size of the smaller device? I've moved to writing interfaces in SVG and use a container. If your moving between 320x240 480x320 640x480 then you don't have many problems letting it stretch or shrink. If your writing a UI that needs to go from 320x240 and 1080p you have to really rethink text, constantly adjust text, or create limits to the size it can grow. I prefer the later. Having an XML file tell the UI to change panels or manipulate the width and height attributes using percentages while leaving the viewBox to remain your UI's maximum size... No offense meant, but just sounds like a dirty hack.
320x240 - 800x600
svg id='outerSVG' width='100%' height='100%' viewBox='0 0 800 600'
800x600 - 1080p
svg id='outerSVG' width='50%' height='50%' viewBox='0 0 800 600'
I definitely like the idea of compartmentalizing your application. However, I don't see how expanding the UI to include additional parts is a good thing. That just forces people into situations of liking one way and not another, IMHO. If it makes sense switching views from one piece to another why not leave it like that on both devices. I guess I'm just partial to compact UI.

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Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Re:grrrrr by TuringTest · 2011-09-20 05:13 · Score: 1

Unless you log out before posting.

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Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
Re:grrrrr by boristhespider · 2011-09-20 06:21 · Score: 1

Or you can have a browser open that isn't logged in and a browser open that is. Plus point: you can post anonymously and then mod yourself up to have an immediate boost to the dizzy heights of +1.
Re:Aha: A "wannabe master" of written English by boristhespider · 2011-09-20 06:29 · Score: 1

You seem to be a tad on the tense side. You may find it useful to put on some soothing music and relax in a scented bath.
However, I'd be willing to give you mod points for using the word "effete", except that, alas, I have no mod points.
Re:grrrrr by flimflammer · 2011-09-20 10:44 · Score: 1

Hell, I browse at -1 so I can see the whole discussion and not just what popular opinion has decided for me.
Re:Caution by gmhowell · 2011-09-20 10:52 · Score: 1

Well shit, I've been 'wasting' mod points lately. I'll have to correct that.

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Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Re:grrrrr by crafty.munchkin · 2011-09-20 13:23 · Score: 1

same.

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... wait, what?
Re:You don't "GET IT", do you? by MrNaz · 2011-09-20 14:13 · Score: 1

Because successful communication requires the rules of language to actually be consistent between the communicator and the communicatee. Sure, I might be able to interpret a sentence like "i hd d wurst day eva fml" at the moment, but at the rate we're going, within a decade the English language will have completely devolved into a mess of mutually unintelligible sets of syntax so different that communication between different groups will present a real problem.
I have no problem, for example, with things like the use of the split infinitive, as it can be argued to enhance certain aspects of writing style, but where is there an argument for eliminating all the homonyms of "there" and just using that spelling for "they're" and "their"? Really, there is no compelling argument, and the only time I've heard this advocated is by lazy people who can't be bothered learning the correct forms.

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I hate printers.
Re:grrrrr by L4t3r4lu5 · 2011-09-20 21:09 · Score: 1

Why stop there? I could fire up a second computer and use one for AC, commenting one for moderating!

At what point does the level of inconvenience become too much? Two different browsers open for the same website is in and of itself an idiotic situation to put people in.

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Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Re:grrrrr by boristhespider · 2011-09-20 21:31 · Score: 1

Let's say you own three computers, which is not at all unreasonable - one desktop, one laptop and one tablet is reasonably common. Then you can have five or six browsers open, a collection of sock-puppet accounts and a few ACs. Troll as an AC and boost to +5 Insightful. Immediate Slashdot domination is yours!
Of course it's idiotic :) Two browsers on the same website is already looking a bit... unhinged.
Re:grrrrr by drinkypoo · 2011-09-20 23:01 · Score: 1

"I am the fastest reader I know"
lol this sounds like the kind of pathetic teenage loser bragging that goes on amongst nerd club members.
Sorry, but I was so unpopular, they didn't want me in the nerd clubs, either.
Simple truth remains that they trained some of us in a "gifted" class to speed-read using a machine and it really works. I was the fastest of the lot. I don't just read books, I eat them, and quickly, without ketchup.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And will it fit into a setup box for Televisions by lsatenstein · 2011-09-21 04:23 · Score: 1

Seems that the trend is to dump the desktop for a combined TV / Desktop device.
Hard disk is external via USB connection or perhaps bluetooth.

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Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Re:You don't "GET IT", do you? by Skywolfblue · 2011-09-21 11:43 · Score: 1

within a decade the English language will have completely devolved into a mess of mutually unintelligible sets of syntax so different that communication between different groups will present a real problem.
How exactly is that new? English has never really had a sane fixed syntax.