The (Mostly) Sad Fates of 32 First-Generation iPad Rivals

harrymcc writes "Back in August of 2010, I rounded up 32 tablets — existing, announced, and rumored — that weren't the iPad. So much has happened to tablets since then that I decided to revisit my list and look at what happened to all 32 contenders. The results aren't pretty, but they do provide plenty of evidence that competing with Apple was far harder than most companies expected."

Comments

Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

One of those tablets became the Asus Eee Pad Transformer. It's a gorgeous little Honeycomb tablet (currently 3.2.1) with IPS widescreen display and a docking keyboard option. It uses the dual-core nVidia Tegra 2 processor, 1GB RAM, and has a selection of ports you're unlikely to find all of on most other tablets: SDHC, microSDHC, miniHDMI, dual USB. Build quality is great and the color and texture are very nice. It has Flash and Netflix now, the full Google Android experience. The speakers are just awful, but there's really nothing bad about it otherwise. On Amazon 500+ people have given it an average of 4 stars. It's not been discounted much ever off its original $400, and appears to be selling quite well. I bought one and couldn't be happier about my return on investment - no fiddling with alternative flashing and rooting. It just works.

The next-gen version is likely to be one of the first quad-core "Kal-El" Tegra 3 tablets out this year, and rumor has it the one dock will work for both and battery life will be even better than the current 8-16 hours.

So not all of these were disastrous it appears. At least somebody got it right. I hear the Acer Iconia Tab is doing well too at its new $400 price point. Yes, the vast majority of the initial round of iPad challengers were quite wide of the mark. But we seem to be narrowing in on a family of choices that can move a lot of units at their various price points. Amazon's Kindle Fire looks to be interesting at $200.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[0123456]

Yeah, I tried the Transformer at a trade show when it first came out and it seemed pretty good. I just couldn't think of a reason why I'd want to buy it over a netbook that cost half as much.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[jmac_the_man]

Seconded. I'm a huge fan of the TF-101, and it's amazing how every time one of these HURF DURF NOBODY BEATS IPAD articles comes out, somebody always mentions the Transformer. It's a shame that the earthquake screwed up their initial production run so badly and that Asus didn't market it the way they could have. I know I've sold at least two people on it by just popping the screen off and handing it to them to show them a photo or something.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[RanCossack]

I bought one and really like it. It's a nice choice if you really want a netbook, and maybe sometimes to use a tablet -- which turns out to be precisely my preference... aside from seldom using it outside the dock.

The main advantage over a netbook that costs less would be the IPS screen and battery life. All the same, to be honest -- I think I would have been just as happy or more so with a netbook or chromebook, which would also have been thinner and lasted a bit less on battery, but not been quite as fun for PDFs and the like.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[BlueStraggler]

Honeycomb 3.2.1 IPS widescreen docking dual-core nVidia Tegra 2 1GB RAM SDHC miniHDMI dual USB Flash Android no rooting quad-core Kal-El Tegra 3

This post explains everything you need to know about why Slashdot simply doesn't get tablet computing, and probably never will.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

I just couldn't think of a reason why I'd want to buy it over a netbook that cost half as much.

15-16 hours of battery life when docked is a pretty compelling argument. Also, it's convenient to use undocked while lying down comfortably.

The downside is that stock browser sucks on Slashdot (very laggy when typing comments). But, this being Android, you can just use Firefox or Opera Mobile.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

I did mention the user reviews in that post, and down below I rate it "Toddler tested, toddler approved." It runs all the Android apps from my phone - full screen and beautiful detail, and I don't have to buy them again. All my content is "just there". This is slashdot, and specs are appreciated. I know calling out specs isn't the Apple way: it's gauche. But here it matters, and this isn't an iPad.

I didn't call out that with widescreen, movies look far better than on the iPad. I didn't mention that with 1280 width on the screen, that the iPad doesn't have, you see much of the web the way it has been designed to be seen this last decade without scaling. These things are important to people here. But I don't call that stuff out when I show it to people. I just hand it over and after a few minutes they ask me how to get one.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[marsu_k]

Honeycomb 3.2.1 IPS widescreen docking dual-core nVidia Tegra 2 1GB RAM SDHC miniHDMI dual USB Flash Android no rooting quad-core Kal-El Tegra 3

This post explains everything you need to know about why Slashdot simply doesn't get tablet computing, and probably never will.

Yes, I guess we should all be satisfied with "4:3 is the best aspect ratio ever, we don't need any extra connectivity, and if the media is not available in iTunes we shall not want to watch it".

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MichaelJ]

You mean once Amazon ships the Kindle Fire, where Android is just the invisible underlayer.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[hairyfeet]

Question: what makes this device more appealing to you than a much better priced netbook? I asked because I looked at those and the average I saw with the keyboard dock was around $550. What I got instead was this EEE netbook which lets me run all my x86 software, gets 6 hours on the battery (If I use the full OS, it also has ExpressGate built in that lets me surf, listen to the tunes or watch videos off the HDD, and adds about 2 hours more to the battery) holds 8Gb of RAM, and cost me a whole $300 off of Tigerdirect. Oh and it does excellent HD and supposedly can play HL2 and Far Cry I (although I don't game on a little screen).

So what is it about the tablet FF that makes it worth the extra $250? Because I played with everything from an iPad to these cheapos and I honestly don't get it. I mean sure for specialized jobs like inventory I can see the appeal of an electronic notepad, but the 12.1 inch netbooks are both thin and light AND give me an actual keyboard and let me run x86 software. So I just don't get the appeal.

BTW if anyone is thinking of one? BUY IT. Those Brazos APUs are sweet, run ultra cool while making everything snappy, and ExpressGate rocks for when you just want to do surfing, mail, or chat. It is just 6 seconds from cold start to surfing with ExpressGate, too cool!

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Sebastopol]

How? It's not about the hardware at all. Every tablet listed had buckets of hardware options, but they failed because every single one was a poorly thought out and was buggy a shit (because face it, Android and its apps are buggy as shit)... a common reactionary response to Apple's clearly planned vision. Purely reactionary "throw money at a problem we don't understand" behavior. Amazon is probably the closest competitor to the Apple vision because Amazon is working on its own version of the future. There simply aren't enough visionary companies, I count 2 (google & apple). But Android is still learning to crawl as an OS, and suffering from Linux syndrome.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Sebastopol]

> Pragmatically, for vast majority of iPad users, Transformer would do everything they do with iPad just as well or better.

Exactly! /. Android fanboys/bois are hung up on hardware and customization, they have zero future vision, just trying to redo what apple has already done, which is why they don't get it and keep failing.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

, they have zero future vision, just trying to redo what apple has already done

I've no idea why you think that this was the point of my post. In any case, can you tell me how this is "redoing what apple has already done"? Can you point me at a similar Apple product?

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[T-Bone-T]

Apple has improved on their purchase policy. You can download things you've purchased without having to buy them again now.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[s73v3r]

The main reason I don't want a netbook is the tiny keyboards. Hell, I had a 13" Macbook for a couple years, and while I got used to it, as soon as I went back to a full sized laptop keyboard (15"), my hands felt sooooo much better. I understand this is more of a personal thing, and may not be an issue for you, but it definitely one for me, especially on a device that I'd like to use for a few hours at a time.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MightyYar]

can you tell me how this [asus.com] is "redoing what apple has already done"?

I'm sorry - it's a cool product, but the only difference between it and an iPad in concept is that the Transformer keyboard is attached with wires instead of Bluetooth.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

Ubuntu and Debian. Google it. It's not for me, but some people claim good results with a dual-boot of Ubuntu and Android. I like mine just the way it came out of the box. I have an Ubuntu laptop for when I want to do laptop stuff, and my problem with desktop Linux on this thing is the same problem as desktop Windows. They're not designed for each other, it's not what the thing is about. Horses for courses. But knock yourself out. Maybe what you want is different from what I want.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[jo_ham]

Again, more evidence of slashdot simply not getting it.

When you get the user experience right, the hardware doesn't matter. It's not just "marketing" and "being duped into buying inferior hardware" here - the iPad works very well for what it does. Companies that try to market on "it has a faster processor than the iPad, so it's better!" are missing the point and aren;t going to attract the audience.

Obviously hardware plays a part, but the days of "the CPU is faster, so it's better!" are gone.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

The big difference between iPad with an external bluetooth keyboard is that Transformer with an attached keyboard looks and works exactly like a netbook - you can change the angle of the screen in a very wide range, and you can conveniently put it down on your lap without having to balance it lest the tablet falls out. You can fold it completely for storage. It comes with a trackpad, which you can use to point-and-click while doing anything keyboard-heavy without attaching an external mouse and needing a surface to use it on (it actually has a mouse cursor when docked). The OS itself is more keyboard-friendly - you can Alt+Tab through apps, and switch keyboard layouts with a shortcut. Trackpad support is there as well, with the usual double-finger scrolling and pinch-to-zoom gestures - and this works in all Android apps.

Another nice aspect of it is that batteries are shared between two devices, so you don't have to charge the dock and the tablet separately; furthermore, they shoved a bunch of batteries in the dock - which also makes it just heavy enough to fully counterbalance the tablet when holding it on the lap - so that the total battery time when docked is 15-16 hours (and dock charges the tablet, so you can use it while docked while having it recharge for later use in undocked mode).

I've tried using iPad with a keyboard dock - both Apple's, which lets you properly dock it, but only supports portrait; and a third party dock that connects via Bluetooth but can hold the tablet in landscape orientation - and it's completely different. It's okayish when you have a desk to put it on, and even then the lack of trackpad means that you constantly have to remove your hands from the keyboard to tap the screen. But beyond that it's much less than what Transformer offers. The difference really is very big, but you have to use both devices to appreciate it.

The only thing that's missing is the ability to dual-boot into Ubuntu - that would be awesome when docked, as there's no reason not to use a full-fledged OS in that mode if you can. But the community is working on it.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Dhrakar]

Look, it is not just about marketing and it has never been just about marketing. Yes, Apple is great at marketing its stuff. However, if that was all it was good at then you would not have any repeat customers -- nor would you have a loyal fan base of Apple users. Not only that, but you would not have Apple as the highest rated consumer electronics company http://www.google.com/search?q=apple+customer+satisfaction+rating&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official for multiple years in a row. You just can't buy that with marketing. Apple knows that it is not about the hardware and it is not about the software -- rather, it is about the intersection of hardware/software/environment that hits the sweet spot for many, many users. Apple users are not, as a whole, clueless sheep. We have just decided that the sum of the parts that go into an Apple system is much better than the sum of the parts of other systems. Simple. I like my Apple stuff. I like it enough that I buy other Apple stuff. It does not matter what other folks think because the systems I have fulfill my needs. You are welcome to go find stuff that fits your needs, but that does not mean that either one of us is dumb. We all make choices based on our needs and at this point in time Apple systems fit a whole bunch of people's needs.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Cigarra]

Another happy TF-101 owner. At $390, it's just a great alternative to the iPad.

Now, if only Skype video worked, it'd be perfect.

And of course, it's "just" an alternative to the iPad, not "more". Apple keeps showing The Way here.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

That's why I said "pragmatically". Smooth UI is something that makes you feel nice and twitch less, but does not really add anything to productivity. And games are equally smooth on both.

In a similar vein, iPad has nice brushed aluminum case, while Transformer is hard plastic with textured back. The former certainly looks much, much nicer. The latter is less likely to slip out of your hand.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MightyYar]

I've never used either device, except for playing a little bit with an iPad at the store. I'll take your word for it that the Transformer keyboard implementation is better.

But I was responding to you making a comment about Apple not even having a similar product... I don't see how they aren't "similar" since they both do almost the exact same thing, albeit a bit differently.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

Apple keeps showing The Way here.

Gotta give you that one. The changes Jobs has wrought are disruptively innovative and I think that's a good thing. I might take exception to "not 'more'" as flash and sideloading and alternate marketplaces are quite a lot "more" to me.

One day the progression from iTunes to iPod to iPhone to iPad to whatever comes next is going to seem like a grand vision with just the right application of leverage at just the right time - a thing only Apple could have gotten away with that brought about a reorientation of our technology's focus from incremental gadgetry to human wants and needs. Brilliance.

It comes with a gilded cage though, and that's not for me. Glad to see an alternative path.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

Let me put it that way: they're about as similar as iPad is to folding Win7 tablet (like X-series Thinkpad).

Which is to say, yes, there is a lot of similarity in some things, especially from the first glance. But there's also a huge difference in practice that makes one much better at many things than the other. Well, okay, it's probably not quite as big of a leap, but it is still big.

Now if only Google could be bothered to fix their mess in Honeycomb... there's no reason why Honeycomb tablets can't have more responsive and smooth UI than iPad on better hardware; but today, they don't. I guess we'll have to wait till Ice Cream Sandwich (and even then I'll believe it when I see it).

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

They have ARM Ubuntu and Debian now, and some people are dual-booting their Transformers. You can Google it. It's not for me. There are lots of apps for it though. I always have Debian or Ubuntu handy, at least as a pendrive boot or VM so don't need this from my tablet.

Get the double battery widget. It's a neat desktop widget that shows both batteries independently.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MightyYar]

Again, I'll have to rely on your opinion :)

The UI responsiveness... are you sure that's not hardware? AnandTech has the PowerVR absolutely creaming the Tegra2. Of course, the Transformer also has more pixels to push, so...

But it wouldn't surprise me if Apple were a little better at putting together hardware in exactly the right way to get their own software to perform exactly the way they want. I mean, iOS is really just MacOS, which is really just NextStep, which is like 20 years old - and Apple has been making hardware customized for that OS for about a decade. I'm sure Asus's hardware guys and Google's software guys could sit in a room and get to the same level of proficiency, but they are from different companies and don't have a decade of history working together. And at the end of the day, Apple has a lot less work to do that Google - supporting only a handful of devices instead of this huge ecosystem. It took Windows about 10 years to catch up to MacOS on generic hardware, despite massive resources... I imagine that's analogous to Google catching Apple.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

The UI responsiveness... are you sure that's not hardware?

Quite so. While Tegra2 definitely under-delivered compared to what NVidia promised, the first iPad didn't have any problems in UI smoothness department - on hardware that's even slower.

Besides, fullscreen games run fine, as well as some apps - I especially love how Opera Mobile has checker-free scrolling and no-bitmap-scaling pinch-to-zoom - it actually re-renders the page as you zoom/scroll that fast! So it clearly has the juice to do better, it's just that many parts of the OS don't use it right. When the stock browser lags and stutters on the same website which works perfectly on any 2.x smartphone (Slashdot!), something's very wrong with the way it's written. Similarly, you can swipe left and right on the home screen without stutter - but only if you hold the tablet in its "natural" orientation (landscape, camera at top). I suspect it has something to do with the way Google is trying to use hardware graphics acceleration - perhaps there are cases where it harms more than it helps.

It also seems to be Honeycomb-specific. My Galaxy S2, for example, is buttery smooth - the browser, and the UI in general. I don't think I've ever seen it stutter on anything. But then, I've heard that Samsung did change quite a bit around Android 2.x in their custom firmware to ensure that all UI is hardware accelerated...

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[sarhjinian]

True, but Firefox on Android is generally worse, and Opera doesn't feel like a "real" Android app.

It's a shame. Chrome on desktop PCs and ChomeOS are very, very good, so why is Android's browser so poor? Even BlackBerry's PlayBook has what feels like a better browser.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

I know about that project, but last I checked (which was about a month ago) they had some issues that I would consider blockers - something with audio, I believe, and being unable to use the battery in the dock? I probably need to check again. These things move ahead fast when there's enough community interest - and there sure as hell is in this case.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[whisper_jeff]

I believe the point that was being made, which you seemed to have missed, is that the vast (and I do mean vast) majority of users don't care how much RAM their tablet (or phone) has. They don't care what processor it has. They do no care. Sorry to all the geeks out there who think that stuff is vitally important but the reality is that it is not. What does matter is that the device works, works well, and that the user enjoys using it. That simple. And, until geeks start to figure that out, companies are going to continue releasing products to compete with the iPad that have superior specs but end up failing utterly on the market - consumers don't care about specs.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[ozmanjusri]

I have a TF101 too, and normally use Dolphin HD for browsing. It works well.

https://market.android.com/details?id=mobi.mgeek.TunnyBrowser&hl=en

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MightyYar]

Has anyone ever told you that you have a lot of toys? :)

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

The funny thing is that stock browser in 2.x is great (at least on powerful hardware - I don't buy budget smartphones). As fast as Mobile Safari, and more convenient. It's only the stock browser in Honeycomb that's fucked up for some reason.

Cross your fingers for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

Well, I think they've used the term "gadget freak" - but yes. ~

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[sarhjinian]

I used Dolphin Tab Beta myself. It works well, but some of the limitations of Google's browser (which it's based on) are still there. And the UI is still kind of strange and inconsistent.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[ozmanjusri]

I believe the point that was being made, which you seemed to have missed, is that the vast (and I do mean vast) majority of users don't care how much RAM their tablet (or phone) has.

And those people don't read or post on Slashdot.

They still love Transformers though. I started out using mine to take notes at client meetings, and I'll swear the thing is as infectious as the flu - every time I go back to those places, half a dozen people will be waving Eeepads at me saying "Look, I got one too!"

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[arose]

But a sizeable portion of users absolutely do care about a gorgeous screen that has an aspect ratio well suited for movie watching, particularly if the can snap it onto a dock that let's you plop it down on your lap or desk and gives 16 hour battery life. Users do care about specs, if not spelled out ones, least Apple would have no reason to beef up with the iPad 2.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[hairyfeet]

Then you really ought to try the new EEE Brazos netbook, because frankly the keys aren't tiny. they took away instead the tapering on the keys so they are flat squares instead of the curved desktop keys and frankly they are REALLY comfortable. the only thing I didn't care for is the trackpad. Oh it works great, i just never have liked trackpads, not when I can pop on a USB wireless mouse and get my accuracy back.

but if you haven't tried one give it a spin. the Brazos APU is a hell of a lot closer to a CULV than to a netbook chip like Atom, you can max it out with 8gb of RAM for $38 off of Amazon, and it has more than enough power to do pretty much whatever. And I really can't say enough about expressgate, that rocks hard! Its like getting TWO netbooks, a full featured Win 7 X64 netbook (which it comes with even though it comes with 2gb of RAM, smart choice ASUS) and you get a ChromeOS style instant on netbook for when you just wanna surf or chat. it is just too damned cool.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

You know, the nice thing about the greedy capitalists that are amazon ... they'll probably enable streaming for any tablet they can.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

These things move ahead fast when there's enough community interest - and there sure as hell is in this case.

Yeah, that. Though the thing is damned nice as it comes in the box for folks who don't like to diddle. For the folks who do, it's diddleable in the extreme. The next version with 5x the processor power and much more powerful video due for Christmas even more so. We've really turned the corner on a new dimension in tech, and the old guard with their "cannibalization" concerns aren't coming with us into this new era.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[bonch]

If you think Kindle Fire is a victory for Android, you're not following what's going on. Did you notice Google hasn't issued a press release or said anything positive about Kindle Fire? That's because Android was created to establish Google services on mobile devices, but Amazon is replacing those services with its own. Kindle Fire is a threat to Google.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

It sounds to me like you're going to get what you want for Christmas.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[t2t10]

What does matter is that the device works, works well, and that the user enjoys using it.

And these specs are what makes the device work, and work well. And it's been selling well too, at about half a million units and selling out quickly.

See, unlike Apple, where one size fits all and specs don't matter because your only choice is to buy or not to buy (kind of like the Soviet Union), there are dozens of Android tablets and that's why the specs matter. Also the specs for the connectivity matter, because built-in SD card reader, USB, and HDMI output are really nice.

And Apple knows that Android tablets are a real threat; that's why they have been filing all these bogus patent claims against Samsung (another company that makes very nice tablets). If iPads were selling based on how good they are, Apple wouldn't have to play these evil tricks.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Trogre]

I care.

And I think you'll find that most of the people who visit this site do too. Remember we are not the vast majority of users, and know that 170MB for an android phone that you know is going to have several apps running at once won't cut it.

Most folks will just ask questions at the local Buy More or the geniuses at the Apple Store. Heaven help them.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

The next version with 5x the processor power and much more powerful video due for Christmas even more so.

We'll have to see about that. One reason why Transformer is the modder's heaven right now is because its secure boot key got leaked, which made it wide open to nvflash. To their credit, Asus didn't even squeak about this - no takedown notices etc so far. But, judging by the fact that newer production models (B70) have it all locked tight with a new and unknown key (and consequently, as of today, non-rootable), it wasn't exactly by design. It'll be a shame if Transformer 2 will be all locked as well.

By the way, Newegg has started selling them for $399 with a dock , so a markdown of $120 - either everyone's that worried about Kindle Fire, or else Transformer 2 is coming real soon...

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[symbolset]

The T2 is due any day. They've sold out of the T1. That's a good thing. Apple launches a new model without fear the old one will sell out also. Asus must take more care to make that happen, and they do.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[somersault]

I think it's a victory for me, the customer, either way :) AFAIK Google don't sell music&movies, and Amazon don't sell search..

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[noname444]

That's a weird point. It's not like you need to know what a single of those things mean to use an Eee Pad. Just like you don't have to know what iOS 4.3.5, Apple A5, PowerVR SGX543MP2, NEON SIMD, Objective C, jail breaking or capacities touchscreen is to use an iPad.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Cico71]

So the TF101 doesn't work or what?

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[drinkypoo]

Sorry to all the geeks out there who think that stuff is vitally important but the reality is that it is not.

This is news for nerds, not news for dorks.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[dwightk]

And Apple knows that Android tablets are a real threat; that's why they have been filing all these bogus patent claims against Samsung (another company that makes very nice tablets). If iPads were selling based on how good they are, Apple wouldn't have to play these evil tricks.

You seriously think that? You know that there are plenty of markets in which Samsung doesn't have an injunction against selling tablets, right? You know that their tablets aren't selling, right?

"man, if we just had Germany and Australia we'd be killing!" What?

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[MobyDisk]

that the vast (and I do mean vast) majority of users don't care how much RAM their tablet (or phone) has.

I think that is a misunderstanding. They certainly care: just give them something with 16MB of RAM and a 100Mhz processor and they will know that it sucks. They may not be able to quote the numbers, but they most certainly care. But since this is a technical discussion, and we are comparing tablets to the iPad, it makes perfect sense to quote the specific figures.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[ArsonSmith]

Here's your car analogy.

The vast majority of users don't care what engine their car has. But if it doesn't perform to their expectations it falls flat. (whether those expectations are economy or performance) The iPAD is a great lowest common denominator product that will sell well for quite some time. I need a little more out of my tablet device though.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shmlco]

"... and Amazon don't sell search."

No, but Amazon does sell ads.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shmlco]

As soon as I posted this I remembered A9. So yeah, search too.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shmlco]

"If you think Kindle Fire is a victory for Android, you're not following what's going on."

So true. Running 2.2 under a custom shell does nothing for the Android tablet market, where Google is trying to push 3.x and the upcoming 4.x. Amazon doesn't care about Maps or most of the other Google services, and Google can't beat them with the Android Marketplace stick since Amazon already has its own.

Not to mention that Amazon just undercut almost every other Android tablet on price, making them look even less appealing than they already were.

Basically, Amazon just forked Android, and named the new fork Kindle Fire.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shmlco]

And have you seen the rumors about how Amazon is eyeing WebOS? To Amazon, the KINDLE is the platform. Not Android.

If WebOS would let them build a better, differentiated platform I bet they'd be all over it.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[narcc]

Even BlackBerry's PlayBook has what feels like a better browser.

RIM has had a competitive browser for a over a year now. It's in no way incomplete.

Take a look at:
HTML 5 Test - Tablet Results
HTML 5 Test - Mobile Results

As a blackberry user, I no longer feel left-out when it comes to web browsing. If you compare the old Torch 9800 to say, the iPhone 3GS (known for having a great browser), you'll find that the Torch actually does a little bit better.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[DinDaddy]

To be fair, GP did say "no fiddling with alternative flashing and rooting. It just works"

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[somersault]

I guess Google have YouTube as well, and apparently they were going to experiment with paid content according to some articles I found. I don't think it's available here in the UK though, and don't know how it panned out in the US.

Anyways, all this competition is still good for us :) And I don't think Amazon are going to push for their movies and music being distributed exclusively via the Fire any more than they push for ebooks only being available on the official Kindle devices.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[mfnickster]

Again, more evidence of slashdot simply not getting it.

When you get the user experience right, the hardware doesn't matter. It's not just "marketing" and "being duped into buying inferior hardware" here - the iPad works very well for what it does. Companies that try to market on "it has a faster processor than the iPad, so it's better!" are missing the point and aren;t going to attract the audience.

It's the same old argument as when it was on the desktop. The vast majority of what makes it "better" is in software, and the software won't run on just any old hardware - it has to be run on Apple hardware.

Yes, Apple keeps their audience by creating a superior experience that people want and will pay for. They also know that if they didn't lock it down to their own hardware, they would be dead in the device market.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Dog-Cow]

You've always been able to do that with the App Store. Only iTMS had that problem. Of course your pos has no contxt, so I don't know which you are talking about.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[T-Bone-T]

symbolset said that one of the problems of the iPad is having to purchase everything again, which is no longer true. It even applies to iTMS. I've redownloaded entire albums on my iPhone so the iPad should be no different.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[mfnickster]

I've owned hundreds of non-Apple hardware and they tend to make it just outside the warranty before they fail.

And you call me retarded?

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Patch86]

Customers do care about hardware specs- they just don't necessarily know they do. They don't know they care about screen aspect ratios- but they will say "hey that looks great" if you show them a device with a screen perfectly suited for movie viewing. They don't know that they care about RAM or GPU, but they care about things loading quicker and jittering less.

The Slashdot crowd are just the same- it's just that they know the technical terms, so we can have proper discussions about it rather than just banging on about things "feeling magical".

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[somersault]

Yes, "don't" as in "do not".

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[RogerWilco]

The numbers don't matter.

In 2000 I bought a Casio Cassiopeia E125 PDA: 150 MHz ARM processor, 32MB RAM, 16MB internal flash, CompactFlash slot so extendable up to 4 GB, 320x240 full color screen, PocketPC 2000 (WinCE 3.0).

I bought it because it had much better specs than the Palm V, which had a monochrome display, 16 Mhz CPU, 2MB RAM or something like that.

A friend of mine did buy the Palm. In the end it was a much better PDA than mine. It had 30x the battery life, it didn't forget all it's settings (including contacts, calender and even password), if the battery died, it had a sync utility that actually worked, and most importantly, it was usable left handed.

I wouldn't even say that Casio did a bad job, except for the battery life the hardware was pretty nice. It was just that MS PocketPC was horrible as a PDA OS, while PalmOS was done very well.

Sure someone ported DOOM and I could run it on my PDA. I could play MP3's and the Palm couldn't. but for actually using it as a PDA the Palm was much much better.

My point is. That except for a few things, like playing MP3s, decoding video, the CPU power and other specs only matter in sofar as they OS isn't tailored to the hardware specs. A well designed OS can outperform a poorly designed one on hardware that has specs only 1/10th.

The Casio E-125 was a very beefy machine in those days, but PocketPC was so poorly designed, and so resource heavy, that it still was a pain to use, while PalmOS was designed for hardware even more limited than the Palm V, and thus ran very smoothly.

It's the last time I bought something on specs alone, without having used it first.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Reservoir Penguin]

Lack of active digitizer ruined it for me. I'm still on a quest for a reasonably cheap 10'' tablet that can replace a pile of hand written notebooks.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[rastos1]

What does matter is that the device works, works well, and that the user enjoys using it.

Nah. He just used the language of the /. tribe to say the same.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[ZenDragon]

You're right, but I think you are slightly misinterpreting my point. They make great products, I am not complaining about that at all. It is the fact that you can make a much more stable system when you control all of the channels, which DOES give them a big advantage in the market. It is not only the use experience that makes them great either, DJs use them because you can take a spare chassis to a gig and literally switch out and boot from the same hard drive you had in the other system. Makes for very little down time. There are many advantages to controlling every aspect of their platform. But the hardware in MOST cases is inferior (the only real common exception being on board sound quality) or only just as good as their PC equivalents and in both cases you pay for the quality. I have seen non apple servers with uptimes of years. Never crashing once, though not all of them were running windows either. Enterprise is the only segment that Apple doesnt do so well in, and there is a reason for that. But also consider that most peoples experience on a PC is usually on a low budget one that they could only just afford, running windows. You buy a known solid "part matched" PC, and it will serve you just as well if not better in most cases simply because it is more useful for more technical things due simply to its customizability from a hardware perspective, and from a software perspective. You can say that I am underestimating Apples quality, I am not, I am only saying that you should also consider that apple is only like 7 percent of the computer market in terms of ownership. And there IS a reason for that. Apples amazing marketing and r&d can not save it from itself. But that's their gig, they thrive on several market niches where they do well, but that is almost literally it.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Idbar]

Marketing works both ways. It can convince you that all you want is playing angry birds instead of hi-resolution first person shooting games.

Then again, if the average people think playing Angry Birds is good enough for a mobile device, and just because it works, they shouldn't get anything better (and developers shouldn't be developing improved graphics and performance games), then they deserve what they get.

I for one defend simple games, but on the other hand, people have the right to have powerful devices capable of running better stuff.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[jo_ham]

Well, in which case, you'll like the iPad 2 - which included a *considerably* faster GPU and CPU combo (especially the GPU) over the first iPad.

There are some pretty good looking 3D games on the iPad, including FPS titles.

The iPad 2 is a very powerful device in the mobile space. Just because a lot of people play Angry Birds on it doesn't mean it can't also run high power apps and games.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[s73v3r]

See, the thing is, while they might have "larger" keys, they're still going to be squished incredibly together, and that's what my hands don't like.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[hairyfeet]

Actually at 12.1 it really isn't all squished like the 10 inchers. Check it out as you can see they put a smaller trackpad to give the keys more room and instead of taking space with all the extra function keys they put those on a little strip above the keyboard.

Personally i think its sweet. it only weighs 3 pounds with a 6 cell, the Brazos chip handles more like a CULV than an Atom, while it says that it holds 4Gb a bunch of guys on Amazon have loaded it up with 8Gb and even provide the links (just ordered mine, with my gift card I got 8Gb for it for $33, sweet!) so it'll handle whatever you can throw at it, and depending on what you are doing you can get around 6 hours on win 7 or around 8 on Expressgate.

Plenty of space, speed, graphics, memory, bluetooth support built in, and the whole smash for $340 with 8Gb of RAM? dude that's just too sweet. But comparing it to the old MSFT claky keyboard I use on my desktop she really isn't much smaller, you cut about 1 inch off the really wide backspace and enter keys this old claky has and it would be about even. If you have a Best buy nearby they carry the Atom version, its the 1215N instead of B but both are the same FF so you should be able to see how it fits you. I can say i like it a hell of a lot better than the MSI Wind it replaced. Its keys are more comfortable for my big meathooks and with a wireless mouse seems to be the perfect size of ultrportable for me, but YMMV.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Server hardware isn't apples domain. Nor would I want an Xserve. I'd want a beefy Dell/HP/Lenovo/custom rig/etc. I'd want to develop on a MacBook, but deploy there.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[t2t10]

Yeah, we've heard the same kind of b.s. from Apple fanboys when Android phones came out: "they aren't selling", "they will fail", etc. And now they are ahead of iPhone. The same is going to happen with tablets. Apple is just trying to delay the inevitable a little, and getting an injunction against a competitor that makes a thinner, faster, nicer product just before the Xmas season is good strategy. It also shows that they are running scared.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Sebastopol]

You are right to correct my statement in accordance with your evidence. The ASUS link you sent is NOT 'droid redoing what Apple has done, it is Droid redoing what Microsoft has been doing for 15 years.

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[Sebastopol]

"The only thing that's missing is the ability to dual-boot into Ubuntu - that would be awesome when docked, as there's no reason not to use a full-fledged OS in that mode if you can. But the community is working on it." /facepalm

You are clearly not the market for an apple product, and you clearly have ZERO idea what that market looks like. Hint: its the other 99% of the world who thinks technology is a pain in the fucking ass because of useless nonsense like "omg it has dualboot!"

Re:Asus Transformer TF101

[shutdown -p now]

You take one sentence from my post - the one that is my personal wish, and had zero relevance to the rest of it (and yes, guess what? I'm a geek - in case you haven't noticed, this is Slashdot, not Apple forums), while ignoring all other points that I gave on why Transformer is so much better than iPad for the average Joe. Congratulations.

Well, I guess you tried real hard to find something.

No mention of ViewSonic G-Tablet

[rwa2]

The G-Tablet goes for around $250 nowadays and is among the better devices supported by VEGAn-TAB and CyanogenMOD.

The stock ROM bites, though, and the lack of GPS, magnometer, and limited LCD screen viewing angles might be an issue for some. But I'm pretty happy with mine.

Re:No mention of ViewSonic G-Tablet

[SlashdotOgre]

I too am very satisfied with my gTab which I picked up for around $280 from Woot in March. However one thing to note though is that Viewsonic is almost certainly not going to provide an official Honeycomb build. This is an issue because we need some binary drivers to get hardware acceleration working in third party HC based ROM's. Personally I've stuck with the Gingerbread based VEGAn-TAB ROM mentioned by the OP (and overall I'm happy), but if I were purchasing a new tablet today I would opt for one with an official HC build by the vendor.

Re:No mention of ViewSonic G-Tablet

[symbolset]

I have this one too, and can confirm the above. The stock ROM bites, and having no experience flashing Android devices thought I had bricked it for a few weeks until I had time to read up. Now that I've fixed it I can see that it's really hard to actually make the thing unflashable, but finding the right firmware sets and drivers to get the job done is not a trivial challenge for the average person.

It seems unlikely Viewsonic turned a profit on these - they're selling through Woot now, probably bought remaindered in bulk. But if you've got the nerd skills this tablet is a heck of a good value at $260. Capacitive 10" touchscreen means no multitouch and slightly sluggish reaction time. The screen doesn't have wide angle viewing. It does have a full-sized USB port on the tablet for USB storage or mouse, and a microSD slot on the tablet. The speakers are decent and with the right software load you can get Flash and Netflix. Makes a great little dedicated browser too.

But don't let the battery run all the way out. It seems not to have a battery backed real-time clock so if you discharge it all the way you'll have to reset the time to get it back into useful condition.

That's why I waited

[markdavis]

I waited patiently for the Xoom WiFi before buying a tablet. I am glad I did. A lot of pre-Xoom products looked interesting, but lacked one or more of the following: solid OS, large name manufacturer, real (capacitive) touch screen, good compute power, decent amount of memory and storage.

It was too expensive... but so was and is the iPad. I didn't want an iPad, and now the Xoom is $100 less and LOTS of Tegra II, 10" honeycomb tablets are available. Perhaps too many! And Amazon's recent product intro and the success of the Touchpad firesale has FINALLY shaken up the market and prices are starting to drop rapidly.

Re:That's why I waited

[CharlyFoxtrot]

And Amazon's recent product intro and the success of the Touchpad firesale has FINALLY shaken up the market and prices are starting to drop rapidly.

Prices are dropping rapidly for companies who are throwing in the towel and dumping their stock. It's not a sign of a healthy market. The only interesting thing that has happened in the tablet market so far is Amazon going after tablets (and by tablets I mean the iPad) from the low-end through the ebook reader market.

Re:That's why I waited

[markdavis]

But HTC just slashed the price of their Flyer 7". Motorola dropped the Xoom price by $100. Other strong players are following too that are not exiting the tablet market and not giving up.

My point was that the manufacturers took notice how quickly and insanely people went after tablets when the price dropped enough. They will probably shift into a smaller profit margin with a larger volume type sales model now. Consumers will win. This is generally a good thing.

Re:That's why I waited

[CharlyFoxtrot]

They are definitely getting smaller margins, but they aren't getting the volume they need to make it worthwhile (lower prices to not necessarily equate to higher volume.) Report from back in April :

"Global Equities analyst Trip Chowdry estimates that Motorola Mobility has manufactured between 500,000 and 800,000 Xooms, but has sold only 5 to 15 percent of them. Best case scenario then, according to Chowdry, is that Motorola has sold 120,000 Xooms; worse case scenario, it’s sold just 25,000."

And the Xoom is generally regarded as the best of the lot.

How long will these companies keep trying to get into a market where they aren't making any money ? Slashing prices reeks of desperation especially since components haven't gotten noticeably cheaper and they aren't making the volume to benefit from economies of scale. Like I said the best bet for real competition is probably the new Kindles. Amazon can sell these with an extremely low margin (or even a subsidized price) because unlike all the other tablet hopefuls they can make their money on media sales.

Re:That's why I waited

[shutdown -p now]

Prices are dropping rapidly for companies who are throwing in the towel and dumping their stock ... The only interesting thing that has happened in the tablet market so far is Amazon going after tablets

Asus Transformer started selling for $400, $100 below iPad 2. It's at $370 on Amazon now, and there's no "fire sale" - they're on the third production batch by now and going.

Re:That's why I waited

[shutdown -p now]

And the Xoom is generally regarded as the best of the lot.

By whom? About the only good thing that can be said about Xoom is that it uses stock Honeycomb, and is thus the first to get updates. But others get them at most weeks later, so it's not a big deal (not as much as it is with 2.x phones). In most other respects, there are better Honeycomb tablets than Xoom on the market today. It just happened to be the first one.

Re:That's why I waited

[markdavis]

Actually, there really isn't that much difference between the various Tegra II 10" Honeycomb tablets. Mostly the same screen res, same processor, same speed, same memory, similar storage, etc.

Motorola did have slow updates at first, but that was also BECAUSE they were first (with Honeycomb). I am not trying to make excuses for them, but they did have a huge challenge trying to get Honeycomb working properly (and so did other early adopters). Things seem much more normal now- over the last few months, I have had three Xoom updates...

Re:That's why I waited

[shutdown -p now]

The difference is in the screen (Xoom one is not IPS, most others are) and available ports. Sometimes also software - e.g. some of them come with Polaris Office, which is pretty good.

For Transformer, of course, the huge differentiator is its awesome dock - not just for keyboard, but for battery life and extra USB ports and SD card slot. Another, smaller but still notable difference, is that it can read and write NTFS partitions from USB sticks and drives (they've licensed a proprietary NTFS driver for Linux from some company).

Re:That's why I waited

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Small niggle : those are shipments you're quoting, not sales. But it'll definitely be interesting to see real sales figures after christmas. I am starting to see some non-Apple tablets around my neck of the woods, not many but they're out there.

Re:That's why I waited

[ColdWetDog]

"Global Equities analyst Trip Chowdry estimates that Motorola Mobility has manufactured between 500,000 and 800,000 Xooms, but has sold only 5 to 15 percent of them. Best case scenario then, according to Chowdry, is that Motorola has sold 120,000 Xooms; worse case scenario, it’s sold just 25,000."

Ah, music to my ears. Another fine tablet soon to be priced at $99.

Hey, it's still early. There is hope left in the world.

Re:That's why I waited

[ColdWetDog]

Pffffft. Spoil Sport.

Re:That's why I waited

[shutdown -p now]

I don't see what this has to do with the fact that prices on tablets are clearly dropping. It's not like Asus is selling it at a loss.

There's not going to be a single product that will dethrone iPad overnight. It's got a brand image that's too strong, and a head start of over a year for tablet alone, and even more if you count iOS in general - which translates to more apps, more websites with mobile versions that are specifically optimized for iOS, etc.

However, I'd give it a year or two at most before Apple is either forced to lower prices down to a similar point, or else be squeezed into the "expensive gadgetry for people who really need its distinctive features (30%) or snobs (70%)" niche covering a small corner of the entire market - same place where it's at in PC & laptop world.

Re:The Apple effect

[TheGoodNamesWereGone]

Tablets have their niche, and far be it from me to tell others they're wasting their money. What Apple has always had going for it was the coolness factor. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. There's nothing a non-phone tablet can do that a netbook or especially a notebook can't do better. Their only advantages are size and battery life. Apple's tight control of the platform and apps are its greatest strength, but also the reason I personally hate them the most. If I buy a device I own the frickin' thing, and the fact that you have to go through iTunes to do anything is antithetical to that.

Amazing.

[Pino Grigio]

Yes, my experience too. I was pretty amazed when I looked around for a tablet. It would have to be bloody good to overcome the fact that as an iPhone/iPod user, I've got a lot of stuff "locked in" to Apple via. their store and iTunes. Anyway, I still don't think there's anything out there that's actually more desirable for me than an actual iPad, and that's still too expensive for what I want it for (not to anon cowards - I want it for browsing, YouTube and generally mooching around the web when I'm sitting in the lounge watching TV - a phone is not really a very pleasant usability experience for that kind-of thing, although that's what I'm using at the moment).

But from a software/hardware point of view I've seen this all before (at the company I work for): the competition comes out with something way ahead of the game, and you rush to play catch-up just to get a toe into the market and develop the skills and expertise you need in order to produce the much better, second generation product. The money invested in developing these things is investing in future products, rather than the existing range.

Re:Amazing.

[somersault]

There are plenty of cheaper 10" tablets around now that would be perfect for the uses you mention. You wouldn't even need Android 2, let alone 3.

Apple isn't ahead in hardware at all. When it comes to software, the only lead they have is that there are no dedicated apps for renting/buying TV shows and movies here in the UK. With the iPad you'd just rent TV/movies from tunes. I haven't tried the LoveFilm flash player on Android 3.1 actually, it may be more reliable than by now. Kind of a moot point considering I can stream LoveFilm to my TV with my PS3 though. My Xoom is great for YouTube vids, browsing and Kindle.

The advantage of fragmentation

[symbolset]

It's a Darwinian thing. Nature floats a lot of trial balloons. Some of them work out and are improved upon. Some of them don't. But progress moves forward.

Re:The advantage of fragmentation

[CharlyFoxtrot]

"Nature" is quickly running out of companies that haven't soured on the whole tablet thing. It's looking more like an extinction level event.

Missed the Acer Iconia

[hmckee]

After using the G-Tablet for a few months, I gave it up in favor of the Acer Iconia. The Iconia runs Android 3.0, has GPS, supports a Bluetooth keyboard and has good viewing angles which G-Tablet had problems with.

Certainly not as small as an iPad but it's been a pleasure to use. I mainly use it for testing Flash games. I looked at a more than a few of the devices in the article and none of them could compare to the G-Tablet or Iconia.

Re:Missed the Acer Iconia

[hmckee]

Of course, the Iconia wasn't even announced until after the article was published.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[The Good Reverend]

They're not really "iTaxes" as the iPad is the same price or cheaper than almost all alternatives.

I love mine. And my non-techie wife loves it. And our 5-year old daughter loves it. That's really what was important to me in my household. I have my servers and plenty of other tech toys to tinker with - the iPad was perfect for the whole household, though.

Archos 70 and 101?!?!

[oic0]

They only mentioned the previous weaker gen of the archos tablets. The new Archos 70 and 101 are completely different animals. Much better products. I love mine and have had it for quite a while now.

Re:Archos 70 and 101?!?!

[ackthpt]

They only mentioned the previous weaker gen of the archos tablets. The new Archos 70 and 101 are completely different animals. Much better products. I love mine and have had it for quite a while now.

We were given the weaker predecessors at work, lamentable and they batteries died (wouldn't hold charge) within a month or two. Got something else to replace them which isn't much better. Paper weights, basically.

Re:Archos 70 and 101?!?!

[shutdown -p now]

They mention tablets that were released way back, alongside the original iPad.

The "us too" business strategy doesn't work

[hsmith]

The issue is all these companies crammed shit out the door hoping to capitalize on Apples success with tablets. Yet, they didn't realize it isnt just a tablet, but more. If they would have sat back and built something smart that works well, decently priced they would have had a chance. Hopefully Amazon has taken that and realized what it takes.

Re:The "us too" business strategy doesn't work

[PineGreen]

Yet, they didn't realize it isnt just a tablet, but more.

Yes, they didn't realize that when you buy ipad, you are sexsiually pleasing Steve Jobs.
If you buy a non-Apple product, you are not sexsiually pleasing anyone.

That is the difference.

Re:The "us too" business strategy doesn't work

[Pence128]

I didn't realize the iPad is more than a tablet, but you have a point. If you're playing catch up, it not enough to be "like an iPad". It has to be "like an iPad, except (better/cheaper)" There aren't really many important features on a tablet. Light, thin, good LCD and capacitive multi-touch are pretty much 90% of the deal. The Chinese knockoffs are going for cheaper though and, as usual, they go all the way.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Pieroxy]

There's nothing worse than Apple fanboys. Except Apple haters.

Re:The Apple effect

[camperdave]

Fine. Point me to a laptop with a keyboard that will fold around back so it's out of the way when you want to watch a video on a cramped bus, and a touch screen format for clipboard style use in my warehouse. Just because it is not a good idea for your life, doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Pieroxy]

Same here. I have two 45U bays in my garage. a few servers in those bays. A Linux desktop. HDHomerun in the attic. Media centers all across the house. And I bought my wife an iPad. Everyone's happy, except those people that think that owning an iPad makes you a stupid moronic cretin. But I don't give a rat's ass about them, so all is well in the end.

Edge tablet

[bhcompy]

As an Edge owner, I can say that it is a great device for an enthusiast regardless of iffy reviews and the company going out of business. Android 2.2 is available for it and there is a strong community behind it. It's a little underpowered. It is resistive, so it supports a stylus, and the eInk screen is touch screen as well(and is capable of annotating with the stylus and has a note taking application that is stylus compatible). I got mine from Woot for ~$100 and it was a great investment.

Re:Edge tablet

[bhcompy]

To qualify, it's a great investment for me because I use it in class to take notes on one side and pull up the PDF on the other side. Like I said, it is a little underpowered and it's resistive, so playing Angry Birds isn't going to run optimally. I use it for purely academic uses and some web browsing and such. At the price I got it for, I'm extremely with it for what it does.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Coolhand2120]

No, he ran over my FreeBSD OS and fucked my x86 architecture. And all after he promised that he wasn't at all attracted to that stuff!

so

[unity100]

you have the space to hold a pad vertically to watch a video on a cramped bus, but, dont have the space to let a netbook's lower implement with keyboard etc sit on your lap ? or are you watching videos while going around in the bus standing ? wouldnt both the pad or the netbook get shoved up your ass if the bus stopped suddenly nonetheless ?

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[symbolset]

I don't hate the iPad - I've got one at work and it's intuitive, easy to use, has a great software selection. It's just not my thing for buying with my own money. You're right: the littles take right to it.

But I can't be critical of you for drinking the haterade, because somebody might ask me about the horror that is Windows on a tablet.

That said, my Android tablets are all toddler tested and toddler approved. "Tablet, Gampa?" is often the first thing I hear on arriving home.

UI is one component of good engineering

[Brannon]

iPhones and iPads are solidly engineered all the way around (hardware and software) and [yes] targeted at a non-technical audience, but still quite usable by nerds.

I don't understand the condescending attitude that many nerds have about iOS devices and their users.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Nerds are another form of hipster. If something is mainstream, they start hating it to make themselves appear to have more sophisticated tastes.

And yes, I am speaking from experience. I tend to be overly critical of popular movies just to look cool. I like to think I've toned that down in recent years.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

If nerds could really detect idiocy there would be no flame wars.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[Mordaximus]

I don't understand the condescending attitude that many nerds have about iOS devices and their users.

They got really bored of hating Microsoft?

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[Sebastopol]

Pffft. You still watch films at a cinema (not movies at a theater, mind you)? How pedestrian. The real action is at my stereoscope parties, where we drink home brewed absinthe and discuss better methods for raising backyard livestock, or who makes the best handlebar mustache wax. :-)

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Out of curiosity, do you live in Sebastopol?

Interesting coincidence brewing here...

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[sznupi]

Apart from already mentioned things - nerds also remember? (it's their "job" to be nosy). The thing with Apple aura, it was there also when their products were huge pile of excrements (large part of the 90s, in particular) ...and yet, they still had similarly dedicated following. What that might suggest to those who remember history? (not overall one, oh no, they are usually horrible at that; just recent one in their field of interest)

Add the myths that grew around iPods, about the levels of their supposed dominance - while the percentages proudly boasted by Apple during their media events had "in those few selected markets" small print, while it's extremely clear the iPod really took off (and still only in few atypical places) much later than typically claimed and roughly at a time when the transition to music-capable phones was well under way (mobile phones which weren't castrated by carriers in most places).

What's happening, is we simply zoomed by the period of dedicated mp3 player contraptions. iPod rides the closing chapters of this short wave - and anyhow, in few atypical places.
In a reasonably prosperous ex-Comecon late EU member-state, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen an iPod (well, excluding mine obviously...). S1 mp3 players, and similar (Creative, et al), seemed to be typical for quite some time; largely replaced by mobile phones few years ago already (usually by so called "feature phones" ...though that often means touchsreens in the style of LG Cookie or Samsung Corby and Star).
And most places are less prosperous than mine, with even greater mark-up on Apple products.

Yes, the music capability of mobiles isn't used so universally as in the case of iPods. For my region, it's something like 20-30% of all European mobile phone users also regularly listening music on them. But that already adds up just in that one region to value in the range of total number of iPods ever produced.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[couchslug]

"If something is mainstream, they start hating it to make themselves appear to have more sophisticated tastes."

That of course doesn't exclude mainstream suckage.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[jedidiah]

Apple has been the single worst PC name brand that I've ever dealt with. Of 3 machines only one managed to last anywhere near as long as any of my other PCs. One of them had a minor component failure while another failed completely. So much for that much over-hyped "quality". They were also prone to becoming obsolete much quicker than their PC cousins. They were less well equipped sometimes not even being able to run the OS they came with or use the apps they came with.

Despite fanboy claims to the contrary, even a PC laptop of a similar age is going to be more useful than an Apple whatever.

Apple products are perhaps great if you don't do much of anything at all. If you push technology in the slightest or are the least bit imaginative, you will run into problems.

Apple has no great advantage beyond timing and good marketing.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[sznupi]

Is this one hip enough? (if you don't know neither of the languages available, Google Translate from from pl version gives slightly more bearable results)

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[jo_ham]

Cool story bro.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[phantomfive]

I would love the iPad if it were open. That's a deal killer for me, and I suspect a lot of other people on Slashdot as well.

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[zaibazu]

What is grating when non-tech-literate people come up to me and tell me what great things their I-Toy can do, while other brands could do the same for a decade.

"Look how great my Iphone is, it has a talking cat and a fart app" (The fart app was in the top 10 downloads for a very long time in Germany, simple humour for simple people)

I gave up discussing IT with those people because it doesn't get you anywhere

Re:UI is one component of good engineering

[syousef]

I don't understand the condescending attitude that many nerds have about iOS devices and their users.

It's simply human nature to resent other people's success

Horse shit. I simply hate being locked out of my own devices and any company that forces me to do things it's way can go to hell.

Plenty of successful people I'm happy for. A megalomaniac who sells dumbed down devices as high fashion ain't on the list.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[afabbro]

Same here. I have two 45U bays in my garage. a few servers in those bays. A Linux desktop. HDHomerun in the attic. Media centers all across the house. And I bought my wife an iPad.

Well, see right there I know you're making this up, because no one with 90U in their garage and a linux desktop has ever kissed a girl, much less married one.

You are lost

[symbolset]

That Windows tablet has nothing in common with the thing I wrote about except the manufacturer. Quit trying to confuse people. You're talking about a $1200 tablet with three hour battery life that weighs a ton, is unresponsive on a good day, runs software completely inappropriate for a tablet. It's probably selling in the dozens, and I wouldn't take one for a gift. I'm talking about something... else. Would you Microsoft marketing trolls PLEASE go away for a little while and let the grownups talk?

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[CharlyFoxtrot]

If you want toys for Suri Cruise or Grandma Gump, pay your iTaxes.

I love how an obvious troll like this is modded "insightful". Stay classy Slashdot.

Re:Of course it is.

[HuguesT]

You are not being honest with yourself. Apple has well and truly moved out of the fanbois base and now sells to the masses. Non-tech people totally love it. They barely have to do any marketing about the iPad, it's been very hard to get these past few months, it's been literally flying out of the shelves.

The iPad is good, face it. Eventually the PC industry might make a few good contenders but right now they suck. Win7 is not up to the task, Android is in between states waiting for 4.0 to come out and finally merge the smartphone and tablet versions with a reasonable "market". WebOS is a goner with HP calling it quits.

I understand you not liking Apple's products. No one is forcing you to buy them, you probably don't need them anyway. But you have to admit Apple has caught the PC industry on the backfoot with this one.

Also the MacBook Air, I totally want that one.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Space cowboy]

Um, "I do". Right here.

I've got 3 CNC machines in the garage as well, various power tools, an electronics workshop etc. I'm currently building a fishtank, a task that I never really expected to involve writing ethernet drivers for 8-bit chips, metal-working, coding on embedded systems, plumbing, laying cement, wood-working an 8 foot long stand, etc. I get to geek out quite a bit, is what I'm saying :)

The only thing my garage lacks is any form of transportation. My wife is just fine with all the "toys" being away in the garage.

Simon

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

I disagree slightly. The simplicity is there, but it's not everything.

In my opinion, the thing the iPad had, which no other tablet until the Kindle Fire did, was an existing use case. If you buy an iPad, you are almost guaranteed to understand that you can buy and watch movies, music, and TV on it. This seems like a little thing, until you realize that for the non-techie consumer, that's the ONLY value to it at the beginning. Understanding what an app is, or how you would play a game on a touchscreen, is something you experiment with; if you don't like to experiment, you don't spend $500 on it.

Not only is the Fire not a $500 investment in experimentation, it starts with an existing use case, so you can justify buying it. I think it'll do better than most.

Re:Of course it is.

[ackthpt]

Apple is selling to a loyal audience, who buy apple products pushed with great marketing if they dont suck enough to discard. The other companies have to sell to the general masses, who prioritize a lot of other things than brand loyalty or hip factor first. That makes it hard to sell them stuff they wont seriously use.

A few weeks ago we had a hard discussion on /. under an article, in which an apple fan went as far to define "showing presentations while walking, looking at recipes in the kitchen" as 'mobile computing' to support his proposition, and in a serious manner, as if these could qualify as a good percentage of what computing can you do as mobile to justify the usability of the device.

The thing about a tablet platform is it opens up a usability paradigm - you wouldn't have thought of taking your desktop into the kitchen to back cookies. A laptop, maybe, if it isn't too big or clunky. But a tablet, ah, now we get closer to 'certainly' Imagine a chef working out new recipes in a **** restaurant, this makes a pretty strong argument for redefining mobile - use anywhere, for anything is the goal, now.

Because people dont want tablets.

[Cyno01]

They want iPads.

Re:Because people dont want tablets.

[larry bagina]

Amazon has an android app store; the kindle fire ad copy mentions it.

Re:Because people dont want tablets.

[RogerWilco]

I think most people couldn't care less.

If you have something with the specs of the iPad, it looks good, has a lot of software available, is easy to use, and has a user interface that doesn't feel sluggish, I think it would sell like hotcakes.

It just seems nobody has produced this "iPad-killer" yet, so apparently it's hard to do.

What people want most of all, is something that works with the least amount of fuzz.

For example, I bought an iPhone 3GS two years ago, my colleague bought an HTC Hero around the same time. I still get updates, he needs to jailbreak his phone and mess around with custom ROMs to get the newer Android versions.

It's the same with Blizzard. They support their older games for a long time.

Care about your users and they will care about you. The problem with a lot of companies, like Microsoft and HTC, is that their customers are OEMs and telcos, not the users.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[nine-times]

I HATE Apple products and could never understand why people would use such a limited device.

Limits don't mean much if you're not running up against them. If all you want to do is browse the Internet, read ebooks, check your email, and use some of the applications available on the iTunes App Store, then you're not running up against any of the iPads limits. For you, the iPad doesn't have any meaningful limits.

So why wouldn't you use a product that does all the things you want it to do? Simply because it doesn't do things you don't care about?

I'm not saying the iPad is for everyone. I don't think I have a use for it, but I also don't get angry at the people who like them.

Re:The Apple effect

[larry bagina]

Toshiba had windows laptop/table hybrids 7 or 8 years ago (the screen rotates, then you close it). Check out the toshiba portage m400 (not sure if it's still available) or ASUS R1F.

Why are un-released iPad rivals considered?

[Mitreya]

That's the part I like best. A good third of the devices are "slated" for a release. Some total vapor-ware, others just late and without dynamically changing specifications. That's a very sad, but a completely separate fate. Hard to compete (or even be compared) with an iPad if you aren't yet released.

I had the same problem with iPod alternatives. An google-found article "Top 5 competitors to iPod touch" had 2 or 3 (yes, you read it right AT LEAST TWO) devices that were not fully spec-ed or yet released to market. But of course since I was looking for something to buy in the present, unreleased devices (that are subject to spec/price adjustment) were hardly of any interest to me. And that's why today I own an iPod touch...

Re:Why are un-released iPad rivals considered?

[RogerWilco]

Somehow the tactic does work for Microsoft. They always have a next release just around the corner that is supposed to solve all problems.

Apple doesn't promise anything. It just delivers. Sometime it's something that leaves the whole tech world in shock, sometimes it's a dud. But they're low on fake promises.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[shutdown -p now]

I bought an iPad for my mom from the same reasoning - everyone says it's good for the casual user, so she'd be able to handle it easier than any Android tablet, right?

Well, nope. She thinks that the whole UI is inconsistent from app to app (compared to her desktop PC), and she absolutely hates iTunes. Indeed, her first question when she saw it was, "Is this really needed? Why can't I just drag and drop files on an icon in Explorer, just like I already know how to do with my USB stick and my phone?".

(She doesn't have a music collection to sync, so she really just needs a way to copy the occasional picture or a document to and from the thing. However, she uses a desktop PC and a laptop, and the fact that you can only have an iPad "synced" to one of those is very inconvenient to her.)

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[recrudescence]

Dumben-down something so that even 'simple' users can use it, and watch the product get used almost exclusively by 'simple' users. Simple.
What it boils down to, is who you'd rather have as your target audience. (and $5 says it's not your average slashdot poster).
The downside to this "nintendo wii" approach, of course, is that apple products in general are considered much less 'mysterious' and 'awe-worthy' nowadays than they used to be, as they're starting to be more associated with your average i-go-to-a-special-school joe, as opposed to a windswept, enigmatic and creative personality. But maybe apple likes it that way. 'Simple' masses probably eventually end up paying much more than a handful of rich elitist 'artists'.
</cynicism>

He missed one...

[thestudio_bob]

He seems to have missed the Pyramid Tablet.

Meh

[symbolset]

Acer, Asus, Samsung and Moto seem to be making a go of it on some models and are strong companies with huge economies of scale. Hundreds of companies large and small in China are running off small lots of low-end no-name tablets that are doing well in BRIC and on eBay and Amazon. Amazon just launched their own tablet and 90K units presold to end-users on day one isn't too bad a launch for a new product line sight unseen - it's not Apple numbers, but it will do. We see different things I guess.

Some companies, for one reason or another, threw their tablet under the bus. There was RIM, who wanted to go proprietary and then delivered an unsat tablet. There's Toshiba, Dell and HP and all the other Windows tablet OEMs who are just plain retarded, launching a new product into a category that's failed for fifteen consecutive years. Some like Moto and Samsung targeted for an unrealistic bottom price point and were uncompetitive but have learned.

In all it's working like it's supposed to work. The cream rises to the top.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[wikthemighty]

Our daughter was playing with an iPod Touch at 1, able to unlock it at 1.5 and is finding shows she wanted to watch on Netflix at 2. Mostly she's into Dora, Tickle Tap apps, books and music apps like Bebot. Years ago I dreamed of introducing my future kid(s) to video gaming with my Atari 2600 (still working) as I did when I was 5, now it's more likely she'll be playing the Atari classics on her iWhatever...

Re:Of course it is.

[shilly]

Wow, you're totally missing the point. There are millions of consumers around the world with plenty of disposable income who like to cook! For many of them, using an iPad in the kitchen is quite a big deal and forms a significant part of their use case. It may not be how *you* use it, but it's certainly how they use it. (And me, too)

Re:Of course it is.

[CharlyFoxtrot]

You are not being honest with yourself. Apple has well and truly moved out of the fanbois base and now sells to the masses. Non-tech people totally love it.

Not only are they selling to the masses (if you don't think selling tens to hundreds of millions of devices is mass market you're seriously deluded), but they are turning them into loyal customers. The iPhone has by far the highest customer retention rate around ("UBS: iPhone’s 89% retention rate crushes competition; next closest is HTC at 39%") and they continue to lead in PC customer satisfaction figures ("Apple scored 87 points, ahead of HP with a result of 78, Dell with 77, Acer also with 77 and Compaq with 75. [...] Apple holds the highest score on record for the eighth consecutive year.") They're obviously doing something right.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Apologies for the long rant. I've seen the 'damn overpriced Apple' screed often enough that I've thought about it a bit.

Unless you're a programmer, you don't really know how much effort that simplicity takes. Your thinking that simplicity is a cheap trick is missing the point. It's not that Apple doesn't see all the good features out there, it's that they wait and spend many hours honing things before they see the light of day. Deleting features takes guts, it's telling a programmer you can't do your fun thing. It's keeping to a list of things that are integrated, even though checkbox marketers (Microsoft is the best example here) try to say you're inferior and you're getting nailed in product reviews. But, every feature that you have is actually usable.

You also seem dismissive of their tech. Apple has managed to put a hybrid microkernel/UNIX device with OpenGL graphics, 4 radios (CDMA, GSM, Bluetooth, Wifi), an inhouse designed CPU, and a capacitive touchscreen in wifes pocket. And as someone whose brain isn't wired for tech, she loves it. If you go out to a cellphone store now, you'll see many phones that copy that formula. For a desktop/laptop company to take over the direction of phone design in a few years says something about the quality of their engineers and designers. You seem to confuse simple with stupid, or rather simple on the interface with simple everywhere. It's actually a mistake Microsoft made with the Zune, and old versions of Windows CE. You also seem to make a mistake many people make where they think everyone is just like them but is missing some fact that would make them agree with you. Not everyone is just like you.

As far as the 'Apple Tax', you've evidently never taken economics. The price in the field is determined more or less by supply and demand. Every vendor would love to sell you their stuff for more. It's called profit margin. No one is ever forced to pay it. Consumers choose to. Only the vendors whose products are loved get to charge a decent margin. If they're not loved, no one will pay their prices. So, Apple charges iTaxes? Then, no one must be buying these things that are overpriced? Apple seems to be moving product fairly well. Only iPhones get to charge margin, and very similar specced android phones can not, because they're not quite the same. Even near-WIntel spec laptops with just MacOSX as a differentiator are getting sold. There must be something in that secret sauce of iOS and MacOSX that makes people want to pay more for them, even though Macs don't run Windows programs. It's all that effort you don't see, all that simplicity that makes iOS/MacOSX just work for most people. We have a macbook, and the wife's plan says to replace the aging Windows machine with some iMac once it finally kicks over. She's no fanboy (err, girl). Macs just are easier for her. And I'm a UNIX programmer, who ran FreeBSD for various jobs (besides Linux, Solaris, etc) and I'm low level enough to have done driver work (which shipped in a UNIX kernel) and I like the iMac idea. MacOS does quite well if it's simple enough for her to use, yet powerful enough for me.

As someone who has been on Macs since 89 or so, I can assure you there was no fanboyism about the Performa days or System 7.1.1. or the 'the Pepsi ex-CEO can design and move computers, right?' fiascos. Apple had their nadir, and they built up since then. There was no reality distortion field back then, they made hard choices, killed projects, (Copeland, Rhapsody, Pink, Taligent, etc) and started slowly building Apple to where it is.

Re:The Apple effect

[MightyYar]

Furthermore, you're on the BUS. A BUS. Why do you need to watch video????

You're right, he'd be much better off driving for 45 minutes and just listening to the radio. Or sitting on his couch eating processed foods watching the video. Lord knows the only thing to be done on a bus is to sit quietly and stare.

Re:Of course it is.

[unity100]

i noticed that you conveniently missed netbook in between laptop and tablet.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[CrackedButter]

This.

Ipads success

[Stan92057]

Ipads success and ipad wanttobes comes down to apple loyalty and non apple fans cant find a reason to buy another "computer device" They already have a Desktop,laptop,smart phone. What use is an ipad device? Most people say i have enough stuff i don't want to waste more money on something i already have covered.

Re:Ipads success

[jo_ham]

The OP's response is why other tablets are failing.

If you think it's all about "Apple loyalty" and "fanbois buying iPads" then you've already missed the boat.

The iPad is a genuinely good tablet and it has carved a niche for itself (and other god tablets) with a demographic that are not typically nerdy tech users.

The problem with many of the supposed "iPad killers" is that they've been marketing to the wrong user group.

Re:Ipads success

[Stan92057]

Well like i wrote, I think its the main reason, but i did list other reasons as well.

Remember...

[Wyatt Earp]

When the iPad came out and the /. thread was full of hows and whys other tablets would killing it in the coming year?

Then they said the same thing when iPad 2 came out.

How is that going exactly?

Re:Remember...

[jo_ham]

As I remember, the Xoom came out and it *crushed* the iPad 1 for the same money... but they had to rush it to market and it was still beaten by the iPad 2, which was feature comparable.

They got close, but still playing catchup.

Re:Remember...

[jo_ham]

You missed my sarcasm, evidently.

The Xoom was never a competitor to the iPad. I was playing on the "just wait, any day there will be a cheaper, faster, better Android tablet... any day now.... next month..... the month after that" for 9 months since the release (and leading up to the iPad release), and what did we finally get? The Xoom, which was more expensive than 5 of the 6 available iPad models, and shipped with the two most touted "missing essential features" (flash and external SD card) not working "to be fixed with an update 'soon'" - in a clear indication that it was rushed because the iPad 2 came out and totally took any possible breath of wind out of its sails.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Thanks :)

5 Radios, I forgot GPS.

This is a very good question

[symbolset]

If I want a Windows netbook my wife has an Acer Aspire One, so for my household I guess it wasn't an either/or thing. I agree that the new Brazos netbooks are pretty slick. But I have no use for a netbook. I've got several laptops, and around a dozen PCs set up around the house, servers in a closet and the garage. The whole house has wifi coverage, gigabit Ethernet to every room and a 50mbps cable Ethernet Internet uplink. There's no shortage of PCs here - I'm in the business, have to carry at least one laptop with me everywhere I go even when I'm nominally off work. But the tablet, it was for me - not for family or work - it was to be all mine.

From the first moment I unboxed the original iPad (only days after launch) I knew that this was almost what I wanted, but not quite. Slim, beautiful display, an interface so intuitive my toddler could use it after finding it on the couch, all-day battery life. So sexy people would come up and want to fondle it. But with that iTunes chain you just can't get away from, choices like "no flash" - not that I'm fond of flash really, but when I'm buying gear I expect to be the master of it and for it to obey only me. I knew I wanted an Android tablet because I had an Android phone, but it couldn't be just any Android tablet.

It had to be priced better than the iPad, with a frontside camera for video chat, competitive CPU specs, and the glorious IPS display but in widescreen because I prefer the widescreen movie experience and having seen what that looks like on iPad's 1024 wide 4:3 display I knew it was unsat - it would be fine if I was into standard def TV, but I haven't been for many years. It had to have a nice supply of ports and all-day battery life. It needed the capacitive multitouch screen. I actually wrote about it here at the time the iPad first came out. It had to have the full Google experience because the Android Market with 200K apps was something I was used to on my phone and anything less would be unsat. They say the apps aren't optimized for tablets, but that's not my experience - Android scales well.

So when the Transformer launched I knew "this is it!" and drove all over town trying to get one on launch weekend. After 100 miles and six places I almost gave up and settled for an iPad or Acer Iconia. But I finally found it at Fry's, and they didn't even know they had it - I had to wait half an hour while they dug it out of the warehouse and they only had four. I think the techs in the electronics department got the other three. I didn't get the keyboard at first, and I don't use it much, but it's nice to have. I hadn't thought about the mini-HDMI, or that I would use it, but now the kids love browsing YouTube on the bigscreen and that's a fun activity we can do together.

I bought the Gtablet afterward, mostly to get the rest of the family to leave my Transformer alone.

As for why you would want one rather than a netbook, maybe you wouldn't. You certainly wouldn't like one of the Windows tablets. The tablet form factor has some advantages that I admittedly didn't think were important until I'd used an iPad. But they're hard to enumerate and they don't translate to Windows. It's a convenience thing. Once you get used to one the idea of giving it up is horrible. And it's not $250 more - the Transformer is only $400, or $100 more. In my mind the question isn't whether one or the other is the better value for money or even the better price - it's just whether it's the thing I want. The Transformer is, the iPad and the Windows netbook aren't.

If you don't want to give up your Windows experience, tablets are not for you. And that's ok. We all have comfort levels, and these Android tablets are definitely different. They will not run your old Quicken. But at what they do do, they are frankly amazing. If you read the reviews you'll get a sense of the awe people have about this thing: it's transformative, magical. That it doesn't run Far Cry is irrelevant - your toaster doesn't run Far Cry either and that doesn't diminish its value to you. That's not what it's for.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

You can use something like Air Sharing to puy pics etc on the iPad through wifi. Basically it sets up a simple webserver and you just hit it from your web browser and upload the file. You can also, instead of wifi, use the USB cable and *any* copy of iTunes (do NOT sync!) to copy that file into air sharing. I work in a place with no wifi or ethernet, this is how i get quicktimes etc onto my iPad without syncing.

The downside, however, is that those pictures
etc arent put into your photo album, instead they reside only within the Air Sharing app. (It might be possible to transfer, but I never tried.) The silver lining is that Air Sharing has a feature where you can password protect the folder your pics etc are in.

It's counter intuitive, but at least it's not a total wash. Apple's arrogance is annoying.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Sebastopol]

"limited choice"?

I hear that again and again. It is such a HUGE myth. Give me an example, besides "boo hoo I can't change the color of my icons" or "waaah, i can't ssh through ipv6 to my home linux box". Please. If you focus on what is important, linux-like uber-configurability gets in the way more often than it helps, which is why the linux desktop has failed so horribly in the mainstream.

Please tell me more...

[Frosty Piss]

That is the only reason Apple's inferior crap...

I'm sorry, but other than the "walled garden" business and perhaps price issues, what is it about Apple that causes you to say "inferior crap"?

I accept the realistic ideological opinions about the iron-fisted control Apple exerts over its products. But Apple's operating systems and other software are generally powerful and well written and thought out, and their hardware is certainly no worse than any other modern plastic crap - and many would argue Apple hardware is better designed and built than the average off-the-shelf consumer crap.

And, many people as well will argue that Apple's iPod was a music player "game changer" and still superior in terms of quality and usability (I've never owned one, but that's what I hear).

So, is it the "walled garden" that drives you to label Apple "inferior crap"? or are you suggesting that Apple software is poorly written and Apple hardware is no better than an old Gateway or eMachines PC?

By the way, the last Apple product I owned was an Apple ][, though I've used other people's Apple toys... I'm not a "fan boy".

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Concerned Onlooker]

I'm a Mac user but I almost never recommend to anyone who doesn't already use one to buy one. Anything new--even easy to use stuff--requires some learning curve and I don't want to hear about it when someone starts complaining that the Mac isn't just like Windows.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

Big deal. I've seen the same with GUIs bolted onto Linux. Apple has nothing special going on here.

They do have a killer marketing department these days though.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

Your post is an obvious contradiction.

"Polish" is nice but is the most superficial aspect of the product.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

Yeah because it's so bad when people object to 80s style DOS Lemming world domination rhetoric.

Yes, too rushed

[Olorion]

I agree. The major problem was the hurry with which the competition went to market. Apple spent *years* refining the iPad before attempting to sell it. HP and others tried to clone it in half a year, and predictably most of them failed. The survivors will be releasing second-generation tablets soon, and that is when I will judge the strength of the iPad's competition.

Re:The Apple effect

[scot4875]

Here's one from half a decade ago:

HP tx1000

I'm guessing you don't follow the computer industry much beyond Apple's keynotes.

--Jeremy

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[shutdown -p now]

Ah, but it's not about "just like Windows" - at least not with respect to the iTunes requirement. Rather it's not just like pretty much anything else out there (the only other modern gafgets I'm aware of that require a special program to transfer files to/from them are WP7 phones - hardly a good company).

More importantly, I would understand if there was a good reason for that difference, but I just don't see any. I understand why a lot of people do like auto syncing stuff through iTunes, but it's not like it's hard to do that and support direct file transfer through UMS or MTP. So it looks exactly like the usual Apple case of "you're doing it wrong".

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

> understand that you can buy and watch movies, music, and TV on it.

No not really. It's a device with anemic storage and poor or expensive network options.

So trying to use it as an oversized iPod classic might not work out so well in the end.

I have an Android tablet that is older than the iPad that use to consume DVDs, CDs, and PVR recordings.

It's kind of stupid to pay for something that you can only ever use with another Apple product. At least Amazon and Netflix stuff is relatively vendor neutral.

Um, no

[symbolset]

I have both of them, as I said. They are not just a little different, they're a lot different. The iPad concept is a Cathedral. The Transformer concept is a Bazaar. They're both "insanely great" products and they have some commonalities. But they are not the same thing at all.

Re:Translation:

[jo_ham]

Macs haven't shipped with a one button mouse for many years, but thanks for playing.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jmorris42]

> They're not really "iTaxes" as the iPad is the same price or cheaper than almost all alternatives.

And that is why they fail. Look over that list, three catagories:

1. Vaporware

2. Cheap underperforming crap that Google withheld the tablet editions of Android and often the Market and the other closed source bits from.

3. Stuff priced like an iPad.

The PC world learned back in the 80's that only Apple can make insanely great margins, everyone else has to settle for normal ones. Once Google allows open competition (releases the source again plus allow Market access) the name brands will come down under pressure from the generic Chinese stuff that will be running the same Android 3.2 on the same CPUs and selling in the $150-$300 price range. Then it will be game ON. Once the choice is between sharing one iPad and having his and hers Android tablets we shall see who wins.

Compared to a netbook a tablet should not cost more. Slightly more for an IPS screen with touch and take out most of the battery and housing, the Microsoft Tax, hard drive and stick in what should be a lower cost CPU since the ARMs are System on Chip and the big selling point of ARM is lower cost and lower power. If they are paying more for a Tegra than an Atom + GPU + chipset then I think I have found the problem with the tablet market.

Re:The Apple effect

[larry bagina]

You can't watch porn and masturbate while driving a car. Ok, you can, but I think you can see how a bus offers advantages over a car in this regard.

Re:Translation:

[phillymjs]

The typical Mac buyer is too stupid to handle two.

Uh huh. I've been doing computer support for Windows users for twenty years. If I had a buck for every time I've had an interaction like this with a client, I could retire:

Me: Okay, now I need you to right-click on [whatever] and choose [whatever] from the menu that pops up.
Them: Ok, I clicked on it, but there's no menu, the icon just got dark.
Me: It sounds like you just clicked on it, I need you to right-click on it.
Them: Right-click?
Me: (hiding exasperation that it's the 21st century and I'm STILL having to explain this to people) Click on the button on the right side of the mouse.
Them: (astonished) You mean it does something else????

Archos 9

[JimCanuck]

While it might not be the fastest it does a good job as a media tablet, internet surfer and E-book reader. While capacitive LCD's are all the rage, its resistive touch screen allows a old Palm user such as myself to use a stylus which is a plus. The fact that it makes iPad owners envious that it runs Windows 7 and within reason of CPU power any Windows program makes it icing on the cake.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[sarhjinian]

No, it isn't a superficial aspect. The system is polished throughout. It rarely glitches, behaves inconsistently and/or leaves you wondering what to do in a given context. Done right, it's an all-pervasive attribute of a product, and Apple, in iOS, is a master.

That Slashdot posters (and many tablet UI designers, and likely Google itself) think of polish as superficial is why mass-market adoption continues to elude them.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[aristotle-dude]

Big deal. I've seen the same with GUIs bolted onto Linux. Apple has nothing special going on here.

They do have a killer marketing department these days though.

You are so full of shit that I can smell it from here. Listen pal, I used to be a windows both at home and work up until 2002 when Jaguar came out and I bought my first mac (an eMac). I was heavily into the skinning/modding scene before then and I can tell you that a "skin" is only going to give you some of the appearance of OS X but not the functionality. OS X is more than just FreeBSD with with a pretty UI window manager. OS X has a rich set of framework libraries collectively known as Cocoa which even put parts of .NET to shame. OS X grew out of NeXT which pioneered most of the GUI and Object Oriented concepts you now take for granted. Its ".APP" packages inspired the layout of Java .jar packages as a convenient way of packaging software with meta data except the latter are renamed zip files rather than directories with a special attribute.

I suggest that you at the very least take a look at the the GNUStep project. http://www.gnustep.org/information/aboutGNUstep.html

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jo_ham]

Uh huh. Just keep telling yourself it's nothing but marketing.

The point will be over here, as you sail past it.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Pieroxy]

Same here. I have two 45U bays in my garage. a few servers in those bays. A Linux desktop. HDHomerun in the attic. Media centers all across the house. And I bought my wife an iPad.

Well, see right there I know you're making this up, because no one with 90U in their garage and a linux desktop has ever kissed a girl, much less married one.

Ok, it was an accident, so? Stuff happens !

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[Cederic]

Forgive the short reply, but have you seen Apple's gross and net margins? They reflect premium pricing and monopolised market exploitation, both of which I class as 'damn overpriced'.

Re:The Apple effect

[Whuffo]

I evaluated those for use by a major transportation company. They were almost completely useless; Windows "tablet edition" had too many gotchas where you needed to use a keyboard to proceed. The battery life was short; 90 minutes if you used it lightly.

And the construction; thin plastic casing with easy-break flaps and port covers. Incredibly fragile - but still heavy and a little too bulky.

They offered much and delivered too little. HP is still trying to play that game and failing at it to this day.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[mikael]

Maybe there is some inverse insight in your comment.

I'm getting fed up of visiting so many websites which seem to be like a Sierra Entertainment DOS game - keep moving the mouse pointer around objects in the current screen, until you find something that you can click on. Then click it to see if it does what you want, otherwise go back.

On a website like here, anything green or grey is something clickable. Anything in black isn't.

Backberry, but does it filter ads?

[Herve5]

The single thing that prevented me to buy a playbook upon appearing was, no ad filtering possible. Did this change?

Re:Backberry, but does it filter ads?

[narcc]

To the best of my knowledge, there is still no way to filter ads on the device with the stock browser.

Re:Backberry, but does it filter ads?

[narcc]

Why would it? As a Blackberry user, Bridge is a MUCH better solution than a native app. I can't even begin to list the many advantages.

Most home users won't make use of it anyway, they'll just us web mail like they do on their computer.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

> You are so full of shit that

I have similar media center tales to spin. Apple has nothing special going on here.

Besides, children in general area actually much smarter than adults and much more adaptable.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jedidiah]

You fanboy's really can't handle the idea that Steve doesn't sh*t rainbows and unicorns.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[aristotle-dude]

> You are so full of shit that

I have similar media center tales to spin. Apple has nothing special going on here.

Besides, children in general area actually much smarter than adults and much more adaptable.

Dude you are not getting it. You got my goat with your obvious troll and you have the gaul to speak of maturity? Why do you waste your time trolling? Is it to make you feel better? Windows has its uses and I use it every day at work but I prefer to use a UNIX based OS at home that that is built on top on OO framework. Everything supports drag and drop unlike Win32 where you have to explicitly code in such functionality. I speak from a place of experience with both platforms and you base your troll on no real experience with OS X. It so patently obvious.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[jo_ham]

Who said anything about Steve? I personally think he's a bit of a douche, but I hardly think that's relevant to why the iPad has been a successful product, and especially why the slashdot crowd and wider "technical elite" seem to be in disbelief that a supposed "inferior" product technically can be so widely adopted.

It's actually a good product, whichever side of the "love Apple/hate Apple/indifferent to Apple" fence you stand on. Marketing only gets you so far.

I don't own one personally either - it does not fit my needs at the moment (as in, I have a computer that fills the niche it would take and I can live without the living room convenience for the moment).

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[CrackedButter]

It's nice somebody looks at this stuff rationally, a lot of people are so dismissive today. It's a rare quality, even something I try to always keep mindful of.

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[CrackedButter]

Can I follow you on Twitter or something?

Re:iPad's success is simplicity

[CrackedButter]

Over priced compared to what? Also how can something be overpriced if you willingly buy it? Admittedly my new MBP costs more than the average laptop, but what I value from owning and using a Mac makes more than makes up for the difference in price.