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HADOPI To Disconnect 60 People In France
bs0d3 writes "Today in France under the new HADOPI law, 60 people have received their third strike and are facing disconnection from the internet. The first 60 may only be the beginning. 650,000 people have received their first strikes, and 44,000 are on their second."
...but they haven't caught me ye^#a$s%!_5%j~NO CARRIER
650,000 warnings, that 650,000 people so far who are very unlikely to vote for Scarsleezy who snuck the law in with no public review. Guess who is going to lose the next election big time and what law will be changed by the next incoming President to ensure an extended political career.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
... for the first politician to get his third strike.
Oh, who am I kidding.
Strike 1: http://gizmodo.com/329648/mpaas-university-toolkit-taken-down-for-violating-copyright
Strike 2: http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-steals-code-violates-linkware-license/
Strike 3: http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=95638
BOOM!
No more MPAA! They're offline forever! After all, the law is just and equal and fair and blind, right? And the MPAA -- the people who, let's face it, basically *wrote* this law -- should be held to the highest standard themselves. They, more than anyone else, cannot call it a youthful mistake, or a silly error in judgement, or ignorance or anything else... they have zero excuse and so accordingly they will be punished for their obvious and flagrant transgressions!
Right? ... right?
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
Surely you get a friend or relative to sign up for the connection. Also what happens if you work from home ? What Internet on your phone? Pay as you go etc.. Then I can see a human rights problem, if a cat gets you to say in the UK surely the Internet and connectivity in general will be an abuse of human rights :)
Then there is open wifi etc..
Community wifi for banned people :)
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
My Roleks wrist watch was about $10, but original Rolex is about $8000. Does that mean i stole $8000 from Rolex, because that's a sale they didn't make?
Now watch as there will be a sudden increase of Backtrack downloads from France IP's.
Surely you get a friend or relative to sign up for the connection. Also what happens if you work from home ? What Internet on your phone? Pay as you go etc.. Then I can see a human rights problem, if a cat gets you to say in the UK surely the Internet and connectivity in general will be an abuse of human rights :)
Then there is open wifi etc..
Community wifi for banned people :)
I am not sure they are able to ban these people permanently or put hard limitations for Internet users. Internet is too decentralized for one governmental entity to control it, so until there is no Thought Police there is no danger for freedom of the internet. But, someday one government may break the thin line between democracy and totalitarism and will cut all the cables. Look what happened in Libya or Egipt. They shut down internet services but somehow still were able to communicate with the "outside" world. But this requires more just a few bad men.
I can predict the future: A Satellite Internet Provider is going to gain 60 new customers.
You can't possibly allow people to be permenently disconnected from the internet. To me personally, that is denial of freedoms. We couldn't enjoy things like Facebook.
I would think any law forcing people out of Facebook is a good law.
Perhaps you should have used denied access to Wikipedia as an example of a true loss in the lives of HADOPI victims instead...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Let's face it - this is France we're talking about, so some significant percentage of these people adore Jerry Lewis. That, in and of itself, is worthy of a lifetime ban from all internet activity. Heck, those people should be required never to interact with another human being again.
#DeleteChrome
The cat thing is getting annoying. Don't believe everything you hear/read. That stupid woman ranting about how a cat allows an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK is just trying to scare the public about how bad the Human Rights Act is. There is a lot more to the story than a cat.
The question is how many of those 650,000 are high-profile people (eg people who definitely could afford it, but are too lazy and/or cheap to) eventually reach the third strike.
As for "what was stolen" this is often a straw argument to deflect the blame.
With physical media, making a copy, is often a labour intensive process, it only became cheap with the advent of the printing press, and subsequent technology. So back when copyright laws were invented, there was still a time and effort required to copy anything, so making copies of something someone else made required access to the original item and significant amount of time to produce a copy.
We hit the slippery slope with the advent of cheaply produced CD and DVD's. The cost to make a CD or DVD is in the pennies, but the time to produce the original work is extremely high. The time to produce a copy? a few seconds. How else would China get away with copying all of Disney's films and putting them into a 110disc box to sell it for 50$? Look around, you'll find most of the chinese piracy is for popular TV shows and movies that aren't yet available legally, or in the case of EU and AU, only available in the US. The region coding system has in fact increased piracy (because chinese produced counterfeits are all region 0, and NA/JP/EU/AU players will all play region 0 discs, oops someone didn't think region codes through very much.)
So who loses money when people pirate using the internet? You may laugh, but it's other pirates. The people who pirate TV shows, DVD's and games are all cheap bastards who weren't going to buy it anyway, but the instant-availability of this stuff on the internet means only really stupid people buy chinese bootleg copies. So that's actually more of a win. The difficulty is getting people to pay for the content instead of simply pirating it.
So how do you do that? You don't. Not directly anyway. What you instead do is appeal directly to the fans (eg the very people who buy the product) to pre-order/pre-pay in advance to first to see/watch/listen/play, Once enough pre-orders are queued to produce, make sure the costs are all fixed, and go. All purchases after-the-fact are then considered gravy. If your product stinks, people won't order the next one. Simple as that. Start with digital distribution and produce physical media only while there is a demand for it.
So that's what needs to happen, is that the business model needs to change from "large investment, and attempt to recoup costs with sales" to "pre-budget the investment, rewarding the investors first", removing most of the middle-men in the process.
Myself, I generally don't bother to pirate things much... but if anyone pulled that sort of nonsense, I'd be seriously tempted to start downloading crap left and right, and encourage all of my friends to do so as well.
Let's see them kick -everybody- off the internet, and see how that works, hmmm?
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
All 650,000 people on your first strike, please proceed to your second. The 44,000 on your second, proceed to your third. The rest of you, endeavour to earn your first over the coming weeks.
Come on, France. You still understand the effectiveness of collective withdrawal of labour. So call the government on its own foolishness by forcing the law to take steps which withdraws you from effective contribution to the country. Do not stop until you can proudly call yourself the nation with the most people individually forbidden from using the Internet.
First, other countries will laugh at you. Then your businessmen will realise what they've just done to their chances to make money. Then your government will listen to that whispering, gold-plated voice in their ear and the law will be repealed. Foreign governments and business will realise what will happen if this sort of law is enacted in their own precious fiefdoms and global attitudes will start to change.
But you have to start yourselves by taking a risk and standing up.
Thank you.
The UN declared internet access a human right:
http://www.osnews.com/story/24821
Anonymous pre-paid Internet. Hard to send account owner a notice; even harder to have them disconnected let alone keep them disconnected (the latter of course being the actual punishment).
Wikipedia? Nice, but hardly required. Granted, Norway is really high up there on online banking but I'd go nuts just paying bills. I had to fix some complicated paperwork so instead of a lot of back and forth and verified copies and whatnot I figured I'd just drop by the bank. For one, almost all the local branches are gone because just do it online. You can find ATMs to take money out and almost all have their paycheck electronically deposited, but to find an actual cashier where you can pay a bill is practically gone. When I finally dug one up, the queue was forever, the clientel left who didn't pay their bills online dubious and the fees asoociated with it outragous. Expect paying anywhere between $5 and $8 in fees per bill you pay manually. Anything and everything about it screams "Please don't come here, go online and do it". I suppose you could find a web cafe as your "bank", but with everyone having Internet at home and on their phones they're going the way of the payphone too. I'd probably end up doing my banking at McDonalds in exchange for a burger, how fucked up is that? No Internet is like banning you from streets because streets have stores and you were caught shoplifting in one of them. Not that copyright infringement is equal to stealing in any case. The only thing I hope is that this is some weird French thing that hopefully won't spread anywhere else.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Only surveillance remains. You are not anonymous. You are tracked by your own technology.
aaaaaaa
Wasn't the enforcement of this law put on hold due to some irregularities with the company collecting the data to base these things on?
Move sig!
It has BEGUN!
I think, therefore you are.
Build a public open Wifi network. It can withstand a loss of nodes.
aaaaaaa
Here in Germany, many ATMs allow to make payments as well. Also, I can send in my payment orders by (non-electronic) mail.
With everyone carrying a laptop, smartphone or similar computer with him, I guess access points will remain common. What will likely become rare is the cafe also providing the actual computers.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
You say that this is a human rights issue, but I fail to see how this is any worse than the million dollar fines and blackmail going on in the United States of America.
Yes, losing your internet connection for a month and a 1500 Euro fine would be a hassle, but it would not be the life crushing burden of paying back the exorbitant fines imposed by the US courts, nor the immediate $3000-$5000 settlement letter other companies would hit you with.
I everyone connected to the internet in France were to willingly violate 3 times as a form of protest, would the suddenly bankrupt ISP's in France look at reversing the law?
who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
If I remember correctly, you can't get an anonymous pre-paid card in France - you need to provide a passport or other ID when you buy it.
And that said - France's prepaid plans are utterly shite. Possibly the worst in Europe. The only card that is even vaguely worth the money is one from Orange, and they have very onerous conditions attached, including blocking SMTP/POP and disallowing tethering - with the possibility that they'll null all your credit if they catch you doing it (not sure how they can tell, though).
worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
Unless it is a wireless internet, at some point that account is going to be terminated at a fixed address.
Kind of hard to be anonymous unless you pay cash for rent and not having *any* mail/package delivered.
Think utility/credit card/bank bills.
Why can't you be banned from the Internet?
"The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough." -- Eric S. Raymond
I know a few people who have received their first strikes. For what it's worth, they were using eMule to get themselves nabbed.
Why? look at where he is hosted
http://www.robtex.com/ip/66.147.244.85.html
Since when has America taken spam seriously ?
Well if people don't consume content they're not entitled to, they won't have to run the risk of disconnection. If the content is good enough to consume, it's good enough to pay for. If it's not good enough to pay for or too expensive, why are you bothering with it? The consumer doesn't have the right to dictate the value of content to the content creators other than by feedback in the form of purchasing decisions.
i'd prefer to see the rights holders taking people to claims court instead, but piracy is so widespread I can see why this has happened. You reap what you sow - try not pirating things, it's surprisingly easy.
People receiving their first advice probably will punish their children, kick intruders out of their wifi or look for alternatives either changing protocols (http, torrent, ftp, irc, ...) or hiding trough proxies, TOR or VPN's.
People receiving their second advice are already more likely of knowing what's happening and why they receive it, they are also probably starting to consider paying an anomiser/VPN service.
People disconnected after 3 warnings probably know what they are doing wrong and how they do it. They are pissed off from being cut off the internet, and most probably will try to seek revenge in some way against the one responsible for their cut off (ISP, political party, ...).
Although I think this law is abusive, without wanting it, Hadopi is a great way to push users towards securing their communications and greatly contributes towards the concept of anonymity on internet on a large scale.
Not only will geeks, corps, govs and criminals use 4096 bit rsa vpn's, but the average "joe" in his garage will now also want to use it.
This is gonna be fun to decrypt : enjoy :p
It's curious how
"This is a real relationship! We love each other dearly, and have made a life here. We have friends and are part of the community. This is our home. We even have a cat!"
Gets reduced to "I must be allowed to stay because I have a cat".
The only thing laws like this will do is force I2P and Freenet to become more popular.
Which — ironically — is a blessing for those that use both of those services as it would make both of those networks more robust and viable.
Yes I LOL'ed, how long will this stupidity last? Until they are out of business?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
The info about the 60 people at 3rd signaling is a week old. Latest news is that François Hollande, a Socialist (main opposition party) primary candidate leading the polls, has announced in a film industry lobby meeting that he will keep the HADOPI including the repressive part, just "adapting" it. That's contrary to his party programme and we will see how that fares in the primary and later.
is that it's 650,000 households with a very late teen/young adult still at home and responsible for the warning.
I also wager this therefore represents 650,000 young adults that will vote to oust the lawmakers involved.
countered by 1,300,000 parents to vote back in the lawmakers involved, to get junior the hell out of the house/basement....
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Would someone disconnected from the Internet by HADOPI buy any CD, DVD or Blueray disc in the future? I doubt so. The media industry will blame the lost sales on pirates and urge governments to even more drastic measures. At the end no-one will buy any media any more and the media industry will be dead. Dead simple :-)
I don't think anyone would argue that 650,000 people are running around France stealing things out of stores
No, but suppose that it was widely believed that stealing things out of stores was anonymous and would have no repercussions. Many people who do not currently steal things out of stores would probably do so. Does anyone seriously believe it would be less than 1% of the population?
You can't possibly allow people to be permenently disconnected from the internet. To me personally, that is denial of freedoms.
Although the UN has already recognized internet access as a human right relatively few countries have adjusted their legislation to reflect that.
To get this stupid law repealed, all the french should try to get their three strikes so everyone get disconnected and the providers go bankrupt. When the providers will will lost clients by the thousands, something will happen.
Sooo... you have to show an ID to buy a pre-paid card but you can use an access point anonymously? Strange... Not that I want to give anyone funny ideas
... When we need them to give another lesson vm the French?
Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité, No Interneté!
I'm Not Antisocial, I'm Just Not User Friendly
I am wondering if the costs of implementing the HADOPI policy have been estimated. And also is there any published study on its impact on the usage of internet?
Well, typically you need a credit card if you are not (or do not reveal to be) a customer, so in principle they could track you through this. However you could always ask a friend for permission to use his card. Not a viable strategy to do illegal things (they will probably find you via your friend; also he may not stay your friend afterwards when the cops come to him), but probably enough to get around an internet ban in order to do legitimate things like online banking (assuming an internet ban would actually include checks on access points).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Considering the objective of the Hadopi was initially to sanction 50 000 infringer per year, this is indeed pretty low (http://www.ecrans.fr/Hadopi-50-000-sanctions-26,7604.html).
But in any way, as some of you may know if you can read French, the Hadopi law has suffered both from the consequences of judicial review and from an awful redaction... Therefore, according to French lawyer and blogger Eolas, the legal provisions concerning the offence of "lack of surveillance of one's Internet connexion" (which is the legal basis of the condemnation to Internet suspension) are pretty much clumsy, and still require a rather long judicial procedure. Which is exactly the opposite of the goal of the law.
(http://www.maitre-eolas.fr/post/2010/06/29/HADOPI-%3A-l-op%C3%A9ration-Usine-%C3%A0-gaz-continue)
So I doubt the sanctionning machine is going to be as effective as the techcrunch writer fears.
So you want to start a movement encouraging people to knowingly break the law in order to protest a law that punishes people for taking that which is not their own and contributing nothing in return....
It is frighteningly sad that there are any people that actually see logic in this train-wreck of an idea, let alone enough to mod this up and post in support.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
...you insnsirtive clod! Next time, please think before posting something so funny!!
Does it hurt? Only when I owwwwwwwwwwwww!!!
Never type a comment before your first gallon of coffee for the day (or with broken ribs)!
I suspect that this is a form of censorship like what we saw in the arab spring. The internet is self-sustaining at this point. There is much angry sentiment against these kinds of laws and much support among technical crowds. While a few greedy and dishonest legislatures may be able to pass laws that attempt to control this behavior (filesharing), there are many more people who have the know-how to bypass it. Perhaps it is time that people who are disconnected start connecting ad-hoc networks to bypass the ISP points of failure. If this can be done to topple dictatorial regimes in the 3rd world, why can't it be done in dictatorial regimes in the 1st world?
Didn't the original HADOPI logo use a pirated font? Or am I just mistaken?
They look for non mobile user-agents in http requests mostly...
You could VPN your traffic, gets around the smtp restrictions and hides what your doing.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
In most developed countries the internet is very important to a person's daily life. People need it for work, they use it for shopping, for relaxation, for socialising or to order food. Disconnecting someone from the net for violations that should be settled with a minor fine is very disproportionate. Even if we accept the flawed shoplifting analogy, that would be like banning someone from all shops.
How about cafes or bars? Here they sometimes give you free (although very slow) access to their wifi if you're customer. So in theory you could buy a beer, pay in cash and start downloading torrents
The cat thing is getting annoying. Don't believe everything you hear/read. That stupid woman ranting about how a cat allows an illegal immigrant to stay in the UK is just trying to scare the public about how bad the Human Rights Act is. There is a lot more to the story than a cat.
Indeed, this has been disproved already by people who know what they are talking about: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15171980
I even read the other day an article by one of the lawyers involved saying it was not the reason, but don't have the link at the moment.
At least from my average french window, this info is absolutely unknown here in the ordinary news :-/ /.
Thanks
Herve S.
So it means that more than 99.99% succeeded to set up a VPN before the third letter. I see HADOPI is having a big success.