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Dutch Psychologist Faked Data In At Least 30 Scientific Papers

Attila Dimedici writes "A professor at Tilburg University has been caught using fake data in over 30 scientific papers. Diederik Stapel's latest paper claimed that eating meat made people anti-social and selfish. Other academics were skeptical of his findings and raised doubts about his research. Upon investigation it was discovered that he had invented the data he used in many of his papers and there is a question as to whether or not he used faked data in all of his published work."

254 comments

  1. Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No wonder people were suspicious. I don't know anyone who became anto-social after eating meat.

    1. Re:Obviously by Adriax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Guessing he's a vegan with an agenda. Probably make a good study case for a paper on meatless diets increasing bad decision making.

      I mean really, they already made the huge mistake of giving up tasty animal flesh, someone should study what other bad decisions vegans make.

      --
      I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
    2. Re:Obviously by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      No wonder people were suspicious. I don't know anyone who became anto-social after eating meat.

      Perhaps it embiggened some gland which released some hormone into the blood. It's a perfectly cromulent theory.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Obviously by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Guessing he's a vegan with an agenda. Probably make a good study case for a paper on meatless diets increasing bad decision making.

      I mean really, they already made the huge mistake of giving up tasty animal flesh, someone should study what other bad decisions vegans make.

      Well, eating too much meat can constipate you. Then you go off to the john and spend a lot of time in there, which makes people think you don't want to spend time with them.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe so, but everyone knows You don't win friends with salad.

    5. Re:Obviously by zero.kalvin · · Score: 2

      Observations done on apes ( specially on chimps) showed extra cooperation and leveling of the hierarchical order when the animals were hunting/eating meat. If anything meat should make you more sociable. Seeing how much we resemble them, I would be sceptical about these results as well.

    6. Re:Obviously by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Guessing he's a vegan with an agenda. Probably make a good study case for a paper on meatless diets increasing bad decision making.

      I mean really, they already made the huge mistake of giving up tasty animal flesh, someone should study what other bad decisions vegans make.

      Hey, let them eat grass and hug trees. We don't want to cause a meat shortage, do we?

    7. Re:Obviously by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      And eating lots of greens causes buildup of gas, something that might impact on your social skills!

    8. Re:Obviously by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      Well, eating too much protein can constipate you.

      FTFY

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    9. Re:Obviously by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yes we have all these social events centered around eating meat.
      BBQ, Hawian Luau, Thanks Giving... Meat is something we like to eat and share with others.

      If eating meat was anti-social then these traditions probably wouldn't last threw the generations.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:Obviously by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Guessing he's a scientist with a desire to be funded but stymied by a lack of fruitful research.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    11. Re:Obviously by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      What ever are you talking about? Give me a plate of bacon or USDA Prime filet mignon cooked rare and see how social I become.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    12. Re:Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, eating too much of almost anything can constipate you.

      FTFY

    13. Re:Obviously by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      Well if someone is just giving me bacon and filets, I'm gunna be their new best friend.

    14. Re:Obviously by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      That might be different if there weren't so many blowhard vegetarians screaming murder. I mean the ones in Bikini's (or less) are cute. The rest are not.

    15. Re:Obviously by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I don't know about after, because usually i'm more sleepy and happy than cranky, but I know if some green eater tried to grab my BBQ sammich there ass will be drawing back a stump! They got one of them little family owned BBQ stands down the street, where they slow cook that meat until it melts in your mouth, just a hint of sauce too, they don't drown it like those places that use cheap meat....mmmmm... dammit now I'm gonna have to go get me a sammich!

      As for TFA frankly I figured most of the vegans were batshit after PETA tried to have fish labeled "sea kittens' to make people not eat them. you think I'm bullshitting? look it up, I swear to God, they want to relabel Tuna and trout and all other fish as "sea kittens" because they think folks won't eat a sea kitten sandwich!

      Personally I say if you don't want to eat me for personal reasons that's your business, I don't dig swine myself but that's just cause i was raised on a farm and I know what filthy little scavengers they are, but don't be trying to make us switch to your beliefs, okay? I would never tell someone they couldn't have that pork chop, I just don't like it for myself.

      I miss the days when we actually had personal responsibility and people left each other the fuck alone. If I wanna smoke, or have a beer, or eat some tasty BBQ, what business is it of yours? Oh and before someone chimes in with "medical costs" let me say this: I'll be MORE than happy to sign an ironclad waiver that says if I get cancer the ONLY thing I'll be given if morphine which is dirt cheap, and in return you quit taxing the fuck out of me, do we have a deal? I've actually put that offer to politicians and they hem and haw but it comes down to THEY want the money for THEIR pet projects and what THEY think is best for YOU.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    16. Re:Obviously by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      And eating lots of greens causes buildup of gas, something that might impact on your social skills!

      Let's not forget that methane is a greenhouse gas, so this is clearly putting us all at risk.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    17. Re:Obviously by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Actually it's funny that the anti meat people always bring up cows as the big methane producers as a threat to the environment, like 7 billion people didn't produce any methane...

    18. Re:Obviously by mldi · · Score: 1

      Guessing he's a vegan with an agenda. Probably make a good study case for a paper on meatless diets increasing bad decision making.

      I mean really, they already made the huge mistake of giving up tasty animal flesh, someone should study what other bad decisions vegans make.

      Well, eating too much meat can constipate you. Then you go off to the john and spend a lot of time in there, which makes people think you don't want to spend time with them.

      Similarly, eating too much fiber (aka - fruit) can give you a bad case of the runs, and the end result is the same.

      --
      If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
    19. Re:Obviously by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Ever ate a pound of prunes?

    20. Re:Obviously by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      "It's funny that the anti-X people acknowledge that X produces unwanted effect Y. Why don't they call for every possible source of Y to be eliminated?" Because that would be absurd, and sometimes you have to pick your battles, and the battle they've chosen is meat, not methane.

      Never mind that a lot of anti-meat people would also be perfectly happy with overall human population reduction as well.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    21. Re:Obviously by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      Well, if he was a vegan with an agenda, it's obvious that NOT eating meat can seriously harm your judgement. Just look at the loons in PETA...

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    22. Re:Obviously by pjfontillas · · Score: 1

      Pro-meat people would also be happy with overall human population reduction too. More meat for them.

      --
      Life. Is. Good.
    23. Re:Obviously by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Not while eating them, just before and probably after--since you're hoping for more...

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  2. This has happened before. by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

    Yep none of his data can be trusted now. What a shame.

    1. Re:This has happened before. by egamma · · Score: 1

      Yep none of his data can be trusted now. What a shame.

      Surely, all of psychology is invalidated by one researcher faking his data. Psychology is clearly bunk. Next!

      I think you missed the word "his". EvilBudMan didn't say that all of psychology was invalidated, just the work of one man. Try to read next time.

    2. Re:This has happened before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he was going full meta to disprove the validity of psychology as science?

    3. Re:This has happened before. by Smallpond · · Score: 2

      "A top social scientist, Diederik Stapel, of Tilburg University, has been suspended after an investigation showed that he’s been fabricating his data for years"

      In what other field can you publish made-up crap and become a top scientist? You might be able to get away with it in some fields for a few years as an unknown, but psychology is a field where papers are not making repeatable, scientific predictions.

    4. Re:This has happened before. by Filip22012005 · · Score: 2

      Psychology is rather broad. The committee that evaluatued Stapel's fraud did conclude that the science system failed for social psychology. In particular that research in social psychology is almost never replicated.

      --
      When the policeman of the tie, rule you violate, hello punishment of the kitty?
    5. Re:This has happened before. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Yes it is. The fact that his data cannot be trusted is a a shame is true. Because he may have a lot of real good and honest data. But because he has lied and made up some data means we need to go out and retake more data.

      The scientific community shouldn't be apologetic to this type of behavior. They really need to crack down on this type of stuff. because it gives science a bad name. When a "Scientist" makes a "bold discovery" using made up data, is the reason why people don't trust science as much as they should, because there is too much lets make a political point "Science" going on.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:This has happened before. by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Woosh!

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    7. Re:This has happened before. by trum4n · · Score: 1

      inb4 global warming. Frankly, there are a lot of things made up that make large amounts of attention. Anything we can consider vaporware really counts too. Frankly, we need to clean house in the "science" department. When one side finds something, and another finds proof to partially refute it, both have failed, and must start again, included each others results. Instead, these days, they both just scream as loud as possible till one gets tired. There is proof for and against global warming, now, will somebody come up with some actual science on the matter? Also, Psychologists took away two of my friends. Bi-polar medications turned normal people who suffered stress into human shells. No personality at all. More depressed than ever. Yet they both carry a strange delusion that they are "happier!" and "better!." Quacks, the lot of them.

    8. Re:This has happened before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't replicate the results, then what good is it? If the results can be replicated, then the theory/system is invalid. Psychology is equivalent to cold fusion, but not nearly as cool.

    9. Re:This has happened before. by GodInHell · · Score: 2

      In particular that research in social psychology is almost never replicated

      If you can't replicate the results, then what good is it?

      "can't" and "does not happen" are not the same thing. Psychology tests are repeatable (consider the Milgram experiment which has been repeated quite a bit see: wikipedia for example). But who's going to bother repeating the "messy workplace makes you racist" test? (yes, that's a rough and unfair summary of one of his papers)

      -GiH

    10. Re:This has happened before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...But because he has lied and made up some data means we need to go out and retake more data.

      We don't need to re-take squat. You are free to gather as much data in support of his quack meat->anti-social theory as you want.

    11. Re:This has happened before. by bunratty · · Score: 1

      Just think if the guy were doing climate research. People would be claiming all climate research is a fraud. I wonder how many people will declare all psychology research is a fraud. I suppose many people do already.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    12. Re:This has happened before. by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

      Really....

    13. Re:This has happened before. by SlippyToad · · Score: 1

      But who's going to bother repeating the "messy workplace makes you racist" test?

      An actual scientist interested in the validity of the results.

      Science that is not falsifiable (subject to testing and proving false, in other words) is not science. It's gospel.

      This is an indictment of the people in the field more than anything else -- it took them this long to realize this douchebag was just manufacturing phony proof to advance whatever his particular social agenda was. Sad.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    14. Re:This has happened before. by geekoid · · Score: 2

      You have no clue of science or the scientific method, do you?

      "When one side finds something, and another finds proof to partially refute it, both have failed, and must start again,"
      this is stupid, and a simpletons views of the process.
      What is one side has a long history,a nd many many papers to base his conclusion on and the others doesn't? do we wipe out a whole branch of science?

      It is never 2 papers, it is field of research picking out data to come to a conclusion, and sometime finding seem to contradict each other. You don't 'start again'. YOU look at why and develop new test designed to weed out the conflict.

      Your personal anecdotes are worthless. However, there are good doctors and bad doctors. two bad doctors doesn't mean a whole field is bad. Also, your anecdote doesn't involve science, in involves treatment.

      " Yet they both carry a strange delusion that they are "happier!" and "better!.""
      Or you have a strange delusion based on your personal bias not to trust Psychologist.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:This has happened before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What leads you to the conclusion that scientists do not "crack down on this type of stuff"? You seem to be suggesting that it is accepted or condoned in science, which in turn suggests that you have no meaningful contact with any part of science.

    16. Re:This has happened before. by silentbrad · · Score: 1

      Bipolar medications are the reason I'm still around today. If your friends have no more personality and are more depressed than ever, then that's a problem with the specific med (there are more than one). But that you say they're under a "strange delusion" that they're better gives me the impression that you don't know what depression is, and that you don't know that depression is only one of the symptoms of bipolar disorder - hint: bipolar disorder used to be called manic-depression.

    17. Re:This has happened before. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      No that wasn't my conclusion. I am sorry if it seemed like I implied that. I just don't like people apologizing for bad scientists.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    18. Re:This has happened before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without being offensive, is someone really considering psychology as a real science ?

    19. Re:This has happened before. by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      Science that is not falsifiable (subject to testing and proving false, in other words) is not science. It's gospel.

      I think you didn't read my post. The point is that it *is* verifiable. You can repeat the test. Social psychologists just tend not to bother doing so on these weird little tests. There are certainly many tests on racism -- for example the series of harvard and MIT tests examining the difference in association times between positive words and dark complexioned faces for different groups of people using standardized techniques and observing the results.

      TFA indicates that one of the reasons this particular research got away with faking results was that no one wanted to repeat his tests -- no couldn't, not were unable to, were not interested in. The same thing could happen in any field.

  3. But, but, but by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Why would all those other scientists do something that would threaten their grant money, when they could instead expand on his bullshit studies for pay? Anthony Watts, please explain!

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because he's not in charge of the peer review process for an entire area of science.

    2. Re:But, but, but by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      So who is the King of Climatology who corruptly wields his power? Al Gore?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:But, but, but by tmosley · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They don't get their grant money from vegan societies, nor are the upper echelons of the Western mental health complex infested with militant vegans who refuse to accept that eating meat can be anything but evil and destructive to all of society.

    4. Re:But, but, but by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Hmm so they're all in on some kind of global conspiracy you say...interesting point.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:But, but, but by tmosley · · Score: 0

      No, I said the opposite of that. You have poor reading comprehension. Perhaps these guys can help?

    6. Re:But, but, but by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      My reading comprehension's OK, your understanding of sarcasm may be off.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    7. Re:But, but, but by RingDev · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would recommend that instead of spouting this ignorance proving drivel, that you spend some of your time learning how most grant systems work.

      I'll give you a hint, other scientists' grant money would not be threatened by blowing the lid off someone who is abusing the system. In fact, since that person would be excluded from future grants, the other scientists would be more likely to aquire grants in the future if they DID expose frauds.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    8. Re:But, but, but by HarrySquatter · · Score: 0

      Check your sarcasm detector. The guy was joking...

    9. Re:But, but, but by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      Oh dear, I think I invoked Poe's law...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    10. Re:But, but, but by Dishevel · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Can we please for the love of God and the Internet (With both all things are made possible.) have a real internet standard SarcMark?
      How can we live with ourselves?
      Thousands of innocent stupid people and those who can not take the time to comprehend before posting are being ridiculed every day.
      I think instead of what all the others are saying, Just so it is not missed, We should bring back in all forums, blogs and comments ....

      The Blink Tag

      *Ducks*

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    11. Re:But, but, but by jgtg32a · · Score: 0

      There is one, it just needs better advertisement.

      www.sarcmark.com

    12. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, put the Vegans in the woods in the middle of the winter and see how fast they'll start eating squirrels.

    13. Re:But, but, but by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about it. Happens to me all the time. I'm told it is due to me deadpan delivery. Perhaps I should carry around a rimshot noise so every time I make a joke I can append a Ba - Dum - Da.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    14. Re:But, but, but by ISoldat53 · · Score: 2

      If a vegetarian eats vegetables. What does a humanitarian eat?

    15. Re:But, but, but by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I want that job...
      In charge of Science...
      my first rule will be Science from here on end will always be written and spoken as "Science!"

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    16. Re:But, but, but by cforciea · · Score: 0

      Irrelevant. The ethical ramifications of doing something for survival and doing it because it is easy/tastes good are completely different.

    17. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More over...

      Since his data is faked there is NOTHING to build off of. Like the phrase "on the shoulders of giants" scientific work builds upon itself. If there is no scientific basis to his work then there is nothing that he produced that is useful. So other scientist would happily turn such a person in, not only is he wasting grant money but wasting other researcher's time when they try to reproduce his results for their own studies.

    18. Re:But, but, but by tmosley · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that it is, though your understanding of deadpan humor may be off.

    19. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully you...

    20. Re:But, but, but by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Oh dear, I think I invoked Poe's law...

      Kung Fu Panda? What does Po has to do with Vegans?

      Wait...

    21. Re:But, but, but by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Not exactly irrelevant, as what is easy and what tastes good usually were the things that helped us survive in the past.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    22. Re:But, but, but by tbannist · · Score: 2

      ...

      Just a clue-in here: Anthony Watts is famous (among some circles) for his denouncement of climate change and one of his big reasons for denouncing it is his claim that the scientists are all colluding to steal grant money from credulous governments. But you did a good job of explaining the point of the guy you responded to, and why it's really Anthony Watts who's the credulous schmuck.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    23. Re:But, but, but by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      You missed the point. Critics and global warning denialists have been arguing for years that the climate science data is all fake and that scientists are in on one giant conspiracy, using each other's fake data so they can continue to milk research grant money from the system. It's not true for climate science because the data isn't faked, and it's not true for any other type of science because science doesn't work like that.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    24. Re:But, but, but by El+Torico · · Score: 1

      Irrelevant. The ethical ramifications of doing something for survival and doing it because it is easy/tastes good are completely different.

      Then cannibalism without seasonings is OK, but with seasonings is bad?

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    25. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's isn't a king so much as a team. A hockey team.

    26. Re:But, but, but by kdemetter · · Score: 2

      "Science ! I kill you ..."

    27. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then cannibalism without seasonings is OK, but with seasonings is bad?

      Any meat consumed with seasonings is an indictment of the chef, and therefore bad!

    28. Re:But, but, but by RingDev · · Score: 1

      Hook, line, and sinker.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    29. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know that.
      But do you not think it should Blink? :)

    30. Re:But, but, but by publiclurker · · Score: 2

      Human beans

    31. Re:But, but, but by Caerdwyn · · Score: 1

      Critics and global warning denialists have been arguing for years...

      "Denialist"? That's... inventive.

      Look, there's no need to invent words when we have perfectly reasonable, time-honored words that convey the same intent. I think the one you're looking for is "heretic".

      --
      Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
    32. Re:But, but, but by cforciea · · Score: 1

      The answer to any hypothetical you pose to me, regardless of details, is the same. If you will die if you do not take action x, I am going to interpret it a drastically different manner from an ethical standpoint than if you take action x because you feel like it. If you have to eat a person to survive, I don't see the ethical concern as such with making it taste better insofar as you do not degrade its nutritional value in doing so (although I doubt most people in that situation have any interest or ability to season their human meat).

    33. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean 'here on in'

    34. Re:But, but, but by lennier · · Score: 1

      If a vegetarian eats vegetables. What does a humanitarian eat?

      Humanitables.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    35. Re:But, but, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the conclusion doesn't apply when the grant career of all the researchers revolves around the same specific topic.

      For example, if a psychologist theorises a novel treatment for drug addiction, then another researcher working on other treatments would benefit from exposing fraud. But if both researchers have based all their research on trying to prove that drug addiction exists as a phenomenon in the face of great controversy then the second scientist may suffer if sentiment turns against the very concept of addiction.

      Also, in psychology, I should think the size of the grant pot isn't very much affected by public sentiment. Within climate research it is.

  4. Clearly by Moheeheeko · · Score: 2, Funny

    If we look to the teachings of Freud he did all this to bone his mother. Clearly.

    1. Re:Clearly by Jonner · · Score: 1

      If we look to the teachings of Freud he did all this to bone his mother. Clearly.

      Yeah, I'm sure Freud had lots of reliable data to back that up.

    2. Re:Clearly by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      so that's what his colleagues meant when they called him a lying motherfucker! :P

    3. Re:Clearly by Glothar · · Score: 1

      ...and none of his peers were in a hurry to duplicate the findings.

    4. Re:Clearly by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Have you seen his mother? They call her the deboner.

  5. I have looked into this myself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and would suggest that there is a 67.5% chance that the numbers he cites are unsupported.

  6. Plastic Fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obligatory link to Plastic Fantastic.

  7. How did they catch him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Reuters article doesn't say how he was caught. Does anybody know?

    1. Re:How did they catch him? by tulcod · · Score: 2

      Among other peculiarities, his research results made sense.

    2. Re:How did they catch him? by Anneco · · Score: 2
      Some of his students did not trust the results. They did study his data carefully, and find some inconsistency. Also they found some "copy/paste" in the data.

      Then they told the boss of Stapel their findings.

    3. Re:How did they catch him? by ejoty · · Score: 1

      There is an informative write-up at scientific american . It says that three researchers who worked under his supervision found irregularities in published data and then notified the head of department.

  8. Definition by JamesonLewis3rd · · Score: 0

    Anto-socialism = Wherein ants rule the world.

    --
    Hebrews 11:8
    Jeremiah 33:3
    1. Re:Definition by GameboyRMH · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  9. anto-social by MimeticLie · · Score: 0

    Maybe I'm being pedantic, but really? anto-social? Could you at least run the submissions through a spell check?

    1. Re:anto-social by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They faked the spell check too.

    2. Re:anto-social by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My dyslexia kicked in and I read it as auto-social. Spent several seconds trying to figure out what that meant.

    3. Re:anto-social by ddxexex · · Score: 1

      Clearly, Slashdot must be working on some psychological study on the psychological effects of spelling, grammar and punctuation errors on members a tech-oriented website community. Unfortunately, it seems that the researcher for this Slashdot study was not the one in the summary, so these grammar mistakes will still happen until we find the researcher and convince him to finish his study already.

  10. Published in Science by timeOday · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the worst thing about this is that he was published in Science. Obviously the researcher's career ends here, but this is a big black mark on the journal as well.

    1. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's the journal's own fault - they chose to publish *psychology* papers.

      Science is about provable results. Psychology, not so much.

    2. Re:Published in Science by crmarvin42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not really. The peer review process isn't about catching fabricated data, but about editorial quality. It may not be obvious that the two are different, but they are.

      Reviewers make sure that the experiment is described clearly and completely enough for it to be replicated, which is the best way to verify the dates authenticity/accuracy. They also strive to make sure that the methodology was sound, conclusions don't over reach what the data can support, and that the discussion was complete with regards to the pre-existing relevant literature. Those checks can find fabricated data, but aren't designed to necessarily.

      Journals have no way to verify that you ran a trial, never mind that the data wasn't massaged or flat out replaced with fabricated data. That part is just taken on faith because it is the authors reputation that is on the line.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    3. Re:Published in Science by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the worst thing it that they are publishing psychology papers in Science. Aside from the most fundamental stimulus/response experiments (done decades ago) psychology depends on highly subjective observations and statistics that prove correlations but nothing about the underlying causations. It certainly doesn't lead to repeatable experiments.

          A bigger mystery is how could tell the difference between a faked paper and a real one. They have about the same basis in fact.

      Brett

    4. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That comment revealed complete ignorance.Findings in psychology are replicated all the time.

    5. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aside from the most fundamental stimulus/response experiments (done decades ago) psychology depends on highly subjective observations and statistics that prove correlations but nothing about the underlying causations. It certainly doesn't lead to repeatable experiments.

      There may be some of that in psychology, but not all psychology research is like that. Many psychology experiments take the form of trying to figure out if X causes Y, in which case the scientists think up lots of different ways of causing X, then subject people to X in a controlled way (often the subjects are told they are there for something else) and then compare the level of Y they get to the Y of a control group that is not subjected to X. Put differently, you don't know what you are talking about.

    6. Re:Published in Science by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Its a bit easier with mathematics, engineering and computer science papers as your equations and methodology must be clearly spelled out, and generally it will get checked out by the reviewers, and they know what to expect usually for data. I.e. general behaviors, expected distributions for certain processes, etc. If you are bullshitting they can usually pick it out. Some of them are real assholes as well about nit-picking through everything. Essentially, psychology is too subjective to be considered a science in my opinion, and should have stricter requirements for having papers accepted. Psychology students should at least take some upper level mathematics and stats courses along with some scientific ethics classes to get their PhD so they know how not to bias their conclusions. A good example of how easy it is to screw with definitions to get any result you want from data is the "Does eating a meal on a big plate mean you will eat more?" problem. People genuinely thought this was true but as it turns out, if you redefine what a "large" plate is, what a "medium" plate is, and what a "small" plate is you can pretty much get any result you want. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129126/, this example is a pretty good one because it shows that suppose if you had an agenda against big plates, you could prove yourself right without actually fabricating anything through your misunderstanding of statistics and experimentation.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    7. Re:Published in Science by TopSpin · · Score: 1

      The parent questioned the credibility of Science, not the efficacy of some peer review pencil whipping ritual. Peer review is a red herring you threw in for your own probably poor reasons. Astrologists peer review each other. Peer review is one factor in credibility, and a small one at that.

      The parent is correct; this is a black mark. If peer review is the only filter between the Science reader and fraud, as you seem to imply, then it is a well deserved black mark.

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
    8. Re:Published in Science by Tim+C · · Score: 2

      Actually the filter is when other researchers go "oh, that's interesting/weird/bullshit" and try to recreate or refute the results.

      Science is a process, it takes a lot of work and a long time to be able to sit back and say "ok, we've pretty-much got this figured out from the looks of it".

    9. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. By being published, others were able to review the claims. As it turns out, the reviews found the papers wrong and misleading. This is exactly what should happen.

    10. Re:Published in Science by ElrondHubbard · · Score: 1

      Thank God I never cited him. Whew! Close call.

      --
      "The deep-fried Mars bar is a symptom of a wider crisis." -- Nutritionist Ann Ralph, on the Scottish diet
    11. Re:Published in Science by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Science is about provable results. Psychology, not so much.

      It would seem that controversy about inventing data would falsify this theory. As you are clearly fan of science, I would imagine this will be the last time you'll spread this opinion.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    12. Re:Published in Science by Solandri · · Score: 1

      To that, I would add that the whole point of publishing in a journal is to ask fellow scientists: "Hey, I did this and this is what happened. Can you try it too and see if you get the same result?" If his (interesting/important) results were simply taken at face value and never confirmed nor challenged, then the failing was with his peers, not the journal.

    13. Re:Published in Science by blair1q · · Score: 1

      The peer review process is supposed to be about having trained people determine if the science is real.

      Otherwise you could just have professional writers do all the reviews.

      The fact that none of his reviewers found his results bizarre enough to be investigated or commented on critically at the time they were published means that the entire field is full of morons.

    14. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, not really. There are many who still haven't forgiven Lancet for it's role in the Autism-vaccine fiasco...

      Seriously, the guy sounds like a dork. Anyone whose major ends in "ology" (except for a few like mythology) should do at least a few experiments while in college.

      From article: "Many of Stapel’s students graduated without having ever run an experiment, the report says. Stapel told them that their time was better spent analyzing data and writing. The commission writes that Stapel was ’lord of the data’ in his collaborations. It says colleagues or students who asked to see raw data were given excuses or even threatened and insulted.”

      Seriously, what a jerk thing to do. People have a hard enough time trusting scientists and psychology, in particular, can be a difficult area of research (since humans can lie much easier than chemicals and petri dishes).

    15. Re:Published in Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so another words, the worst thing about this is that he was published in Science. Obviously the researcher's career ends here, but this is a big black mark on the journal as well.

    16. Re:Published in Science by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      There are some ways to flesh out fraud. Invented data will have statistical irregularities real data probably won't. An example of this is asking people to invent a possible outcome of flipping a coin 10 times... you are more likely to see longer rows of sequential heads or tails in real coin flips; people tend to try to even it out with equal H's or T's in their sequences with only small sequences of the same side. This is due to poor intuition on the nature of probability. I believe one article mentions that such statistical irregularities were present...? I can't remember which one it was, it wasn't either of these two.

      Journals, however, typically do not review the raw data and typically assume good faith.

    17. Re:Published in Science by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Peer review is many things. Publishing id the first real step for the Peer review process.
      That's when people can evaluate and test your claims, and repeat the experiment. The pre-publication Peer review is about clarity, addressing the abstract, and glaring mistake. For example: Clear misunderstanding of the principles involved. It is NOT a repeat of the test. So you can have a good test set up(controls, blind, etc) and that doesn't indicate if you blindly lied about the data.

      A bunch of people saying 'this agree with what I thought' is not peer review. And astrologers don't really peer review. If they did, I good duplicate their experiments and get the same results.
      And if people can't get the same results, then the paper should be retracted and an investigation into the authors data needs to happen.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    18. Re:Published in Science by crmarvin42 · · Score: 1

      This is based on the assumption that the reviewers knew what was supposed to happen. Sometimes they have an idea, but the most interesting advancements of science come from results that are surprising or counter intuitive. Try reading Serendipity: Accidental Discoveries in Science for some good examples of why this is not a good metric for detecting fabrication.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
  11. Followed his own study by schlesinm · · Score: 1

    Maybe if he hadn't eaten meat, he wouldn't have been so selfish as to fake data.

  12. All in the name of science by robot256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like it was all just one big meta-study--now that he's got thirty fake papers to use as data he can write a paper on the psychological factors involved in publishing fake papers. Could be an interesting treatise on the nature of trust, the peer review process, ulterior motives and such, but it's too bad because everyone would dismiss it as fake.

    1. Re:All in the name of science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we please stop calling psychology science?

    2. Re:All in the name of science by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Can we please stop calling psychology science?

      It's more a science than the observational sciences.

    3. Re:All in the name of science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow someone is still pretty butthurt that their pet denialist theory was once again shown to be wrong. And this time by a study from an outspoken skeptic. I guess I can't blame you. I'd be pretty butthurt to be wrong so often, too.

    4. Re:All in the name of science by Dishevel · · Score: 0

      OMG!
      I see what you did there!
      LOOK everyone it a GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE DENIER!
      Trying to sneak logic in the back door of this debate is, is, is ... mean spirited and Anit-Social.
      You meat eating, climate change denier!

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    5. Re:All in the name of science by afabbro · · Score: 1

      Indeed. "The only possible conclusion the social sciences can draw is: some do, some don't." -- Ernest Rutherford

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    6. Re:All in the name of science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey look another butthurt denialist that can't accept reality. At least when you guys fully denied that climate change was even happening you were less pathetic than this shifting goalposts stance you guys take now when you can no longer deny it outright.

    7. Re:All in the name of science by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      At least when you guys fully denied that climate change was even happening you were less pathetic than this shifting goalposts stance you guys take now when you can no longer deny it outright.

      The only people I know of who ever claimed that the climate doesn't change are those who produced the 'Hockey Stick' with a nice flat global temperature until EVIL HUMANS started driving SUVs.

      The rest of us are fully aware that the climate has changed far more dramatically in the past than it has in the last century.

    8. Re:All in the name of science by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Who is butthurt? The guy who rigorously applies the scientific method, or the guy who bitches and whines that not everyone agrees with him, and labels any dissenters by a name designed to invoke negative connotations?

      Also, nice job not using your screen name. What are you afraid of, exactly?

    9. Re:All in the name of science by BBTaeKwonDo · · Score: 1

      Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/435/

    10. Re:All in the name of science by khallow · · Score: 1

      And another anonymous person that can't be bothered to log in before libeling people!

    11. Re:All in the name of science by khallow · · Score: 1

      Be aware that a walk further along that line ends up with philosophy.

    12. Re:All in the name of science by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Via a brief flirtation with Logic.

    13. Re:All in the name of science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, how is commentary on the Scientific Method in a thread discussing faked data that was published in scientific journals "offtopic".

      ITT Mods are both stupid and biased.

    14. Re:All in the name of science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not deny that the climate changes.
      I am sure it does.
      Why it changes in the past has always been Sun activity, Volcanoes, Meteorite impacts and I am sure other things scientists know about that I do not and many things that no one understands.
      I am just not sure that this change can be in any way affected by what we do right now.

      I am very happy though that scientists that have no clue what happened to the climate before knows exactly what is causing the changes now.

  13. Sokal Affair by paugq · · Score: 5, Informative

    Obligatory reference to the Sokal Affair.

    The Sokal affair, also known as the Sokal hoax,[1] was a publishing hoax perpetrated by Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University. In 1996, Sokal submitted an article to Social Text, an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies. The submission was an experiment to test the publication's intellectual rigor and, specifically, to learn if such a journal would "publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if it (a) sounded good and (b) flattered the editors' ideological preconceptions."

    1. Re:Sokal Affair by nedlohs · · Score: 0, Troll

      Which has absolutely nothing in common with the this so why is it obligatory?

    2. Re:Sokal Affair by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      Whenever people attack bullshit publications -- or more often, only perceived bullshit, lacking training in the field and just making a kneejerk reaction against the humanities -- they make reference to the Sokal affair. However, it's important to note that Social Text was not a peer-reviewed journal. In fact, it was a fairly obscure publication even within its field.

      What makes this news troubling is that the researcher succeeded in being published in Science which was supposed to have a rigorous and effective peer-review process.

    3. Re:Sokal Affair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as obligatory references go I was thinking more like this one.

    4. Re:Sokal Affair by mapkinase · · Score: 0

      I think he is implying that the articles of Diederik Stapel (a) sounded good and (b) flattered the editors' ideological preconceptions

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    5. Re:Sokal Affair by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      It happened in other fields too. The troubling here is not that Its Highness Holy Tandem of Science Magazine and Nature Magazine faulted. The trouble is that we trust based on the word of the mouth.

      The trust ends at the point where you consider reading the article or not. I trust Science, so I will start reading the paper. But once I started reading, it does not matter where it is published, in Science or in Journal of Theoretical Biology, I will apply the same BS detector (I do not have a special BS detector for each scientific journal, they are costly).

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    6. Re:Sokal Affair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, peer-review doesn't help much if your peers are dimwits. Remember that until quite recently psychology used to be founded on the "work" of Sigmund Freud for decades, even though he made almost everything up out of whole cloth. Many psychologists don't understand the scientific method, or don't understand why it's important, and those that do often don't understand enough mathematics to get their statistics right. Maybe psychology could be a science, but most psychologists certainly aren't scientists.

    7. Re:Sokal Affair by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1, Informative

      What makes this news troubling is that the researcher succeeded in being published in Science which was supposed to have a rigorous and effective peer-review process

      Not really. The peer review process isn't set out to look for fraud. It is set out to look for bad data, poor experimental setups, poor interpretation of experiments, etc. The system assumes that the submitters are acting in good fatih. And this is a pretty good assumption: the vast majority of the time they are. The occasions where a problem occurs are few and far between. It would be a massive waste of resources and exhausting for all involved for peer review to try to actively look for signs of fraud.

    8. Re:Sokal Affair by DrFalkyn · · Score: 1, Informative

      What makes this news troubling is that the researcher succeeded in being published in Science which was supposed to have a rigorous and effective peer-review process.

      Peer review can't detect faked data, only bogus methodology.

    9. Re:Sokal Affair by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the repeated success of SciGen, an automatic computer science BS generator.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    10. Re:Sokal Affair by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      But it's completely different.

      One is an obviously ludicrous paper that anyone looking at objectively would dismiss.

      The other is reasonable papers for which the raw data they are based on was fabricated.

      The peer review process should reject the former, but not the later. The later will be found out when others take those papers and attempt to confirm them with their own work.

      Sokal was showing that the journal in question was garbage in terms of what they would publish. This says almost nothing about the journals since (and I admit I haven't read them I'm going on the article) the papers were fine other than that minor point about the data they were based on being made up.

    11. Re:Sokal Affair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes this news troubling is that the researcher succeeded in being published in Science which was supposed to have a rigorous and effective peer-review process.

      I think we should be past that by now - "researcher" is far too giving, he's a hack with a university certification - a shame to the entire system, they should at least take away his diplomas (assuming we can't skin him, torture him, and burn him at the stake for such blasphemy).

    12. Re:Sokal Affair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is replication or confirmation of a study not also peer review?

    13. Re:Sokal Affair by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Not in the context of what you expect a journal to do in order to be called "peer reviewed".

    14. Re:Sokal Affair by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      lacking training in the field and just making a kneejerk reaction against the humanities

      Is it a "kneejerk" reaction when people ridicule homeopathy, creationism, or politically motivated climate change deniers?

    15. Re:Sokal Affair by CRCulver · · Score: 2

      Is it a "kneejerk" reaction when people ridicule homeopathy, creationism, or politically motivated climate change deniers?

      No, it's a kneejerk reaction when people make claims that e.g. postmodern literary criticism is all bullshit, which is the context where I usually see mention of the Sokal affair. While there are some publications in this field that lack merit -- and Sokal's own comments about misuse of scientific comments are worth reading -- generally people bringing up the Sokal affair throw out the baby with the bathwater just because they can't be bothered to learn what is baby and what is bathwater.

    16. Re:Sokal Affair by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I think you are unfairly downvoted in your original comment. You are right, but despite these significant differences the quote applies to both papers

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    17. Re:Sokal Affair by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Depends if people try to replicate the study. That's what happens in a lot of fields, but obviously it's hard to replicate psychological studies with hundreds or thousands of people that last for years. Sometimes the best you can do is try to poke holes in the methodology. More often what will happen is that someone will think that sounds odd, run some sort of meta study based on whatever data they can scrounge up, and try to see if it matches.

      Bad studies can linger for a long time, even after they're discredited, especially if people have a vested interest in the result of the study.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    18. Re:Sokal Affair by Scroatzilla · · Score: 1

      This looks like an example of the blind acceptance of perceived authority, like this guy's experiment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Milgram
      Of course there is an element of danger in publishing false facts under the guise of authority, because most human beings have no ability to objectively weigh facts and opinions against their own viewpoint to inform and evolve their own positions on various subjects.

    19. Re:Sokal Affair by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

      In how many other fields is "distinguishing the baby from the bathwater" a necessary warning when reading the authorities in the field?

      I mean, really, what knowledge has postmodernist literary criticism actually discovered? What value has it at all?

    20. Re:Sokal Affair by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      That really has nothing to do with this. The Sokal hoax was itself a paper made up of gibberish and goofy nonsense aimed at exposing silly lit crit po-mo types; this type of fraud was doctored data.

    21. Re:Sokal Affair by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      No, they're very much alike. Assuming Stapel was a vegan with an agenda, it's all about faking stuff in order for the conclusion to be as desired, i.e. flattering to someone, furthering an agenda etc. - the end justifying the means.

      Actually stuff bordering on this happens all the time. It's exceedingly rare that any and all data confirms whatever conclusion you want to make (contrived or actually based on your interpretation of the data) so data is adapted, adjusted or thrown away in order for the conclusion to appear clear and unmistakable. It is this exact phenomena that drives part of the global warming skeptics that yell "fake data!"

      I don't know if you have to 'tweak' data in order to publish at all, but to someone who has the basic training in the 'scientific method' but never has done true research it seems like it's pure bad science. Is it really necessary to manipulate data to fit the theory?

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  14. Bummary... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - There is no paper, only a press release.
      - That press release was related to research by Roos Vonk, not Diederik Stapel (although she did use his made-up data).
      - Said research claimed correlation, not causation.

    I can see how this came from the 'if-it[sic]-first-you-don't-succeed-make-it-up' dept...

  15. Heavily cited too by JadedIdealist · · Score: 1

    Even philosophers have been citing this work (eg Jesse Prinz), this is fracking huge. Somehow big journals need to start publishing replications of published work electronically and linking the original (in electronic form) to the attempted replications - and end the "We're too important to publish replications" nonsense. Peer review can only spot bad methods, and citations only really track relevance to what the citee is doing, There needs to be a quick an easy way to track replication - rather than trawling through minor journals that might have published a replication attempt. The topics of these papers were really important and the guy has single handedly fucked over sociology just when it really needs funding and support.

    1. Re:Heavily cited too by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      My question is, how many PhD's were given based in part on Thesis papers that included this fraud as supporting evidence of whatever conclusion the thesis gave.

      The fraud has wider implications than just the journals and resulting conclusions that have been passed around as "truth"; we have no ability to revoke the PhD's that are fraudulent as a result.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Heavily cited too by Filip22012005 · · Score: 1

      The committee evaluating Stapel's fraud has concluded that the PhD candidates had no knowledge of the fraud. They recommend to not revoke any titles and possibly have the university provide them with a letter stating they are innocent of any allegations.

      The PhD-title as a mark of hard work is not invalid. The PhD-title as a mark of contribution to science probably is.

      --
      When the policeman of the tie, rule you violate, hello punishment of the kitty?
    3. Re:Heavily cited too by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      had no knowledge of the fraud

      "I didn't check the facts, so I didn't know they were wrong"

      Single source facts are not reliable.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:Heavily cited too by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Even so, these PhD candidates are screwed for life by being associated with this guy. Most institutions will think twice about letting someone that couldn't spot fraud in their midst.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    5. Re:Heavily cited too by Filip22012005 · · Score: 2

      The report goes into quite a lot of detail as to why these people didn't or couldn't check the raw data. Now, I'm not defending anything, but the explanations are that Stapel was quite an authoritarian mentor. These PhD-students learned about what it's like to be a scientist from him. They designed the studies together, and then Stapel conducted the research with assistants. In fact, he simply made up the data. The PhD-candidates were then provided with a dataset. As far as they knew, this is what getting a PhD is like. According to the report, some candidates protested. These candidates got into heavy arguments. Being a PhD-candidate can make you quite dependent of your promotor. This dependency is also mentioned as a serious flaw in the science system.

      --
      When the policeman of the tie, rule you violate, hello punishment of the kitty?
    6. Re:Heavily cited too by Filip22012005 · · Score: 1

      I agree. I don't think it's fair, but I think it's true.

      --
      When the policeman of the tie, rule you violate, hello punishment of the kitty?
    7. Re:Heavily cited too by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Philosphers are bums riding on the coat tails of giants. As a study it isn't really needed any more.
      All the great questions have been figured out, and all that remains are questions where the bar gets moved whenever their is an answer.

      When phliosphers were scientist, and teachers of mathematics and the arts, they where a critical stepping stone to a more civilized society. But now all those fields have specialist,.

      every once and a while I will tune into a philosophy radio station. Still saying the same crap that was said when I studied philosophy 25 years ago.
      Most of which had been answered. They even brought up the 'What came fists the chicken or the egg' question. In the 21sty century? hello, please read up on evolution.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Heavily cited too by geekoid · · Score: 1

      You could have checked that facts. Of course the facts where based on fraud, something the Candidates aren't very likely to know about.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:Heavily cited too by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      These PhD-students learned about what it's like to be a scientist from him.

      Exactly. They didn't do proper "science" in the first place.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  16. Meat and caveman psych by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    IANAP, but my off the cuff thinking tells me that eating berries makes one selfish and antisocial. Spend a lot of time off on your own, picking berries, "two for me, one for the group, two for me, one for the group", whereas hunting is oft times a social experience, and the sharing of the kill is a party-level event.

    1. Re:Meat and caveman psych by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Why couldn't berry pickers pick in groups (cover a lot more area that way) which would turn it into a social experience and cut down on "two for me, one for the group"?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Meat and caveman psych by crakbone · · Score: 2

      Obviously you have never picked berries. They are just way to yummy to let anyone near you.

    3. Re:Meat and caveman psych by Jason+Levine · · Score: 0

      Actually, I have. I love going strawberry picking with my boys. (Apple picking too, but those aren't berries.) One of the best parts of the activity is when one of us spots an area with a lot of good berries and calls the others over.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    4. Re:Meat and caveman psych by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strawberries aren't berries either, if you want to get technical.

    5. Re:Meat and caveman psych by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christ, even I can tell the OP's comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

    6. Re:Meat and caveman psych by physburn · · Score: 1
      Mod that up, that would be my first guess for the social anthropology of it. Now if you bothered to get some real data, and not fake data just to match your prejudices you'd be a real scientist. Actually its a tough art just to remove the subconscious prejudices that led you to look for answers that match your own theory. But deliberate faking unforgivable.

      ---

      Social Antropology Feed @ Feed Distiller

    7. Re:Meat and caveman psych by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Christ, even I can tell the OP's comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

      Actually, it was. Sure, the "two for me, one for the group" is silly, but I would think the natural urge would be to gorge on berries until sated, then gather the rest for the group. With meat, assuming people are cooking it (and leaving out some societies were the raw heart is eaten, although that's more social and ceremonial than almost any other eating), hunters would have to bring the meat back to the fire, roast it, and everyone would eat it, probably dancing, singing, and otherwise merrymaking.

    8. Re:Meat and caveman psych by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Berry pickers where done in groups. Women and children.

      Hunting was done by the strongest, men.

      Both have their own social sills for their group.

      Not being in groups had a tendency to becomes prey.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  17. Psychology is not a science. by nedlohs · · Score: 0

    They aren't scientific papers to start with, so what difference does it make...

    1. Re:Psychology is not a science. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Of course it is, don't be daft.

      Science is the study of nature.
      People's behaviors is part of nature
      Psychology is studying behavior
      Psychology is science.

      A difficult one, and one that got started by someone who turned out to be wrong about his conclusions, but it is stuill a science.

      Magician really heavily on psychology, as do con men, advertisers, and you mother.

      SO, yes it's a science.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  18. And by Lord+Lode · · Score: 2

    > Diederik Stapel's latest paper claimed that eating meat made people anto-social and selfish.

    And eating shellfish makes you ...

    1. Re:And by will_die · · Score: 1

      bulish

    2. Re:And by Pope · · Score: 1

      Anto-pasta?

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    3. Re:And by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      And eating shellfish makes you ...

      ... goyim?

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ~Neat.

    5. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crabby?

    6. Re:And by Rudisaurus · · Score: 1

      > Diederik Stapel's latest paper claimed that eating meat made people anto-social and selfish.

      And eating shellfish makes you ...

      ... sociable and eager to meet people. (Obviously.)

      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
    7. Re:And by steelfood · · Score: 1

      batshit crazy and allergic to shellfish.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    8. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does goyim mean attractive and successful?

    9. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meaty.

    10. Re:And by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eating shellfish makes you neat.

    11. Re:And by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      It means "not Jewish", because shellfish aren't kosher.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  19. DSM-IV For the win against the constitution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another fake science, to take away more Constitutional rights.

  20. Psychology is a science. by schwnj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every time a story appears that involves psychological research, numerous people make comments about how psychology is a sham, not a science, fluffy, or some other degrading adjective. I usually find that these people haven't the foggiest idea what psychology actually is. I'm willing to bet that many people here that are claiming psychology as a non-science are thinking about what is actually therapy or counseling. I suggest any doubters read actual psychology journals before they make such claims. Much of the advancement in our understanding of neurophysiology, sensory systems, cognitive processing, decision-making, social behavior, and human development is due to research conducted under the umbrella of psychology. The problem is that the public isn't aware of psychology's breadth.

    1. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we know what psychology is, and we still think it's not a science. We feel the same way about sociology, political science, and all the other "sciences" predicated on post hoc reasoning. If you can't have a controlled and reproducible experiment, you can't have science.

    2. Re:Psychology is a science. by schwnj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your comment betrays you. Why on earth do you think that psychology does not involve controlled and reproducible experiments? Why do you think it is based on post-hoc reasoning? Like I said, you need to merely look into psychological research to see your error.

    3. Re:Psychology is a science. by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's a tremendous amount of reproducible, controlled experiments in psychology. One area that in the last thirty years has been particularly successful is in quantifying and detecting cognitive biases. There have been very careful, clever experiments documenting the conjunction fallacy and when humans do it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy, the framing effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_(psychology), confirmation bias http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias, and many more. Moreover, there are now being developed general theories that explain what sorts of errors in reasoning humans will make, and those theories are often falsifiable. Psychology does have problems and especially had problems historically. It probably has one of the worst signal to crap rates of any of the soft sciences, but that doesn't make it a science and doesn't mean people aren't doing very good work in it.

    4. Re:Psychology is a science. by boombaard · · Score: 1

      That's all well and good, but I suspect that the majority of those papers will be shoddy methodologically/statistically; In all of the social sciences there is a widely shared shared tendency to say "let's keep analyzing the data until we find something that gives us a p value smaller than or equal to 0.05. Once we have that, we will write an introduction that fits that 'finding,' and we shall not mention that we did 30 different analyses to find this 'significant' finding (which might just be a statistical fluke, but who knew).." There is a reason why most social science research findings simply are not replicable.
      Certainly the subject can potentially be researched scientifically, but from that it does not follow that the actual research being done is actually rigorous.

    5. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's called "fishing for correlation". It's not only rampant social sciences but also medical science.

    6. Re:Psychology is a science. by Gunnut1124 · · Score: 1

      How about you cite something enlightening... If it's more advanced than the AC above suggested, you might change my mind, but I am seriously skeptical. I've read enough on sociology and political science to say that those fields are hopeless as far as hard science goes. Maybe there's something special about psychology that we've all missed...

      --
      America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
    7. Re:Psychology is a science. by Jonner · · Score: 1

      What is definitely different about psychology is that experimentation on its subjects is far more difficult than most sciences. Psychologists can't generally keep their subjects in controlled environments or take them apart to see how they work. I'm sure a psychologist would tell you that observing and experimenting on members of one's own species, it is more difficult to remain objective than doing the same to lower animals or inanimate objects.

    8. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your post is nothing but intellectual bigotry. I say this not as a troll but because I'm outraged at the ignorance occasionally being displayed in the communities that frequent these sorts of forums. Clearly, the parent post illustrates that not everyone is like this, but I would hope that those in the physical sciences and engineering communities would have enough intelligence and sophistication to actually understand what they're criticizing, rather than rely on stereotypes that feed a narcissistic sense of entitled superiority.

      It is true that "data fishing" occurs in the social sciences, but this occurs everywhere. You could level that argument as readily--if not more readily--in the biomedical sciences as in the social sciences. This problem is also rampant in the signal processing and pattern recognition literature.

      This is well-documented, in fact:

      http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124
      Ioannidis JPA (2005) Microarrays and molecular research: Noise discovery? Lancet 365: 454–455.
      Vandenbroucke JP (2004) When are observational studies as credible as randomised trials? Lancet 363: 1728–1731.

      Also, observational (i.e., correlational) studies as well as experimental studies are employed in the physical sciences as well. I doubt anyone on Slashdot would dare question the legitimacy of astronomy, astrophysics, or cosmology as scientific fields (although specific research studies in those fields might be questioned).

      The idea that social science or psychological findings are unreplicable is totally uninformed. Do a search for "meta-analysis" in any psychological search index and see what you find. Even therapy and counseling, which the grandparent post seems to view as an exception, actually produces some of the best-documented effects anywhere: effects have been demonstrated in numerous meta-analyses, in many different designs with many groups, featuring many types of randomization and many types of controls. In fact, some studies suggest that the effects of therapy and counseling may be more long-lasting than pharmacotherapy.

      As for subjectivity: subjectivity is a fundamental feature of human experience and behavior, and as such, is a legitimate focus of research onto itself.

      I have a more fundamental question for those who would criticize psychology and social science: what would you propose instead? It seems you either study human experience scientifically, or ignore it. If the former, you do what is generally done in those fields, which is quantify and examine phenomena using multiple scientific designs. If the latter, you are literally advocating ignorance.

      It seems to me this last issue is what is really driving the ignorant scientific bigotry in these discussions, aside from narcissism--a discomfort with the reality of human experience and behavior. Just because you are uncomfortable with your own emotions and those of others, just because you are socially unskilled, doesn't mean that there are those who find those subjects interesting and worthy of scientific investigation.

      I sincerely apologize for this rant, but I'm sick of this. It's appalling and I'm tired of people not being called on it.

    9. Re:Psychology is a science. by medv4380 · · Score: 1

      Freud was a Cocaine addict who prescribed people Cocaine to make them more "Normal".
      Ritalin is an addictive substance similar to Cocaine prescribed by Psychologists to make people more "Normal".
      I respect the Neurologists who help my mother who has brain damage from falling out of a moving vehicle and who actually do try to make her more normal and fit into society in some fashion.
      I have no respect for the others who's goal is to make a bunch of drug addicted users to fund their junk science.

    10. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a real problem, but it is not limited to social sciences, and I don't think it's even more common there than elsewhere. You'll find the worst and most common abuses of this kind in medical research.

    11. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Psychologists can't prescribe medications. Psychiatrists are the ones who prescribe medication.

    12. Re:Psychology is a science. by LateArthurDent · · Score: 2

      How about you cite something enlightening... If it's more advanced than the AC above suggested, you might change my mind, but I am seriously skeptical. I've read enough on sociology and political science to say that those fields are hopeless as far as hard science goes. Maybe there's something special about psychology that we've all missed...

      How about the classics?

      On obedience to authority figures

      On conditioning

      And, of course, the Pit of Despair.

      The only reason it's difficult to reproduce some psychology experiments is because of ethical concerns. There's nothing about the data being measured or the methodology used that is unscientific. I mean, I'm sure you can find bad experiments out there, but you can say that about any field, what you consider to be a hard science included. I'm an EE, and I've read some pretty bad papers in my field.

    13. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is a reason why most social science research findings simply are not replicable. "

      Most?

      You have no understanding of the literatures. I'm a psychologist. I'm a researcher at a tier 1 university. I am a neuroscientist. I don't consider my research to be "social science." But, even in the non-neuroscience/physiology based psychological research which spans many disciplines (there are psychologists in public health, psychiatry, neurology, neuroscience, psychology, economics, bioengineering, molecular biology, etc. . .), there are countless streams of replicable research. You do realize that psychologists also use animal models to study cognition and behavior. In those instances, we have great experimental control. I have published both comparative and human neuroscience works. Yes, researching human behavior is challenging. And, the designs are most often quasi-experimental, but, that's the case in a lot of medical research and it doesn't make the data valueless. It just means there may be more confounds. You have to be creative with the research design. I actually find this kind of research more interesting than other fields (go figure, I earned a PhD in it) because it requires a lot of theoretical and methodological rigor to do it well. You want to try something often thoughtless, check out genetics research. Now, that's some boring arsed crap.

    14. Re:Psychology is a science. by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Psychology, as this experiment proves, is a ripe target for bullshit artists. It should probably publish about 10% of what it publishes, and grant degrees to 20% of those to whom it does.

    15. Re:Psychology is a science. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Psychology isn't even necessarily a social science, it's sort of in the middle between social science and natural science. It's a chimera of the two. It actually depends which part of psychology you're dealing with, because psychology itself is a rather diverse field.

      As for the majority of papers being bad, I've heard that common within all the sciences. Maybe moreso within the social sciences, I wouldn't be surprised of that; but a good portion of psychology is heavily influenced by biology and there's a bit less (political) ideology prevalent within psychology than, say, within sociology. But that's my (biased) observation...

      Also, replicability issues are probably more due to the sampling than over-analyization.

      Usually the people making these sorts of claims are physics types that admonish all the "lesser" sciences for being "fuzzy" yet then belittle them for "physics envy" when they attempt to be as mathematical and precise as possible. Philosophers of science and epistemology and people with a broader scientific outlook usually don't care about what smug physicists think about themselves, though.

    16. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Historically, medicine is full of false starts which may be why modern journals espouse such stringent review. When psychology follows biology and physiology it first has metrics, and second has the review process. But Psychology has less maths and measurements than other social sciences. So it reaches conclusions that have no way of being measured and simply cannot be repeated.

      The most famous example is the 1980's finding that 'all gender differences are cultural'. It took 20 years to realise the kiwi-born psychologist had faked his results. Spend a few hours in a baby-care centre and one concludes there are gender differences from birth. But a cultural bias finding was politically desirable and the experiment of cutting off a toddler's penis could not easily be repeated. The lack of a comparative study is a failure by psychologists to use the methodology of review and replicate.

      Compare that experience with a climate-change finding. There is a torrent of evidence that the planet is getting warmer, yet such evidence is quickly denounced as faulty or 'unscientific'.

    17. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were teased during university, weren't you?
      Were the other scientists mean?

    18. Re:Psychology is a science. by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      You forgot economics.

    19. Re:Psychology is a science. by Rimbo · · Score: 1

      Probably because these people think that Xemu is real....

    20. Re:Psychology is a science. by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      The problem with the social sciences, and especially psychiatry, psychology and economics, is the massive amount of influence they have over public policy. They may have good and repeatable studies that completely contradict each other, from which politicians and appointed officials then cherry pick the studies that align with their viewpoint. Don't like social welfare because of your Protestant values? Lets go with the Chicago School economics. Control freak? Lets justify increased economic control with Keynesian economics. Bigoted against Homosexuality? Let's not forget that it's a "paraphilia". We mustn't forget that moral preconceptions can and do constantly reflect in the conclusions drawn from the social sciences, far more so than any other academic area.

      Perhaps we should add another dimension to the categorisation of sciences alongside the soft/hard category; hot/cool, as in headed.

    21. Re:Psychology is a science. by boombaard · · Score: 1

      While I will admit that my assertion was somewhat flippant, and could've used further elaboration, I don't think it follows from that that I have "no understanding of the literatures". I never suggested (as you seem to read into my post) that social science research is invalid because it isn't done in carefully controlled settings (I do not particularly care for laboratory research); what I was hinting at was simply that the methodological "rigor" you are referring to simply isn't there when it comes to many if not most researchers. And because not enough attention is paid to that, it usually turns out that attempts at replication find different things, without anyone knowing whether this is due to differences implicit in the setup, because of unrecognized differences in the participants, etc.
      Compare: when a physicist finds something shocking, he tries in pretty much any way he can to explain it, by doing new tests, etc. When a social scientist finds something exciting he is generally reluctant to go over the data again because he knows the statistics behind it are dubious at best, he will cite money constraints as preventing him from retesting his hypothesis in a different fashion, and he will quickly try to submit his Amazing Finding to Science. Now, while I will admit that I am now slightly type-casting, and probably over-hyping the physical scientist, it seems to me that this difference in basic attitude is quite important.

    22. Re:Psychology is a science. by boombaard · · Score: 1

      Oh, I do not dispute that medical 'science' is just as bad at this if not worse.. But the problem behind that seems to be that 'social' scientists of any stripe are simply not being taught proper methods, and that they lack the statistical/mathematical background necessary to do their own research. This is largely ignored by most of the social sciences (I guess so kids who are no good at math can also do 'science'), but it is a quite important thing to get right. Being capable of pressing buttons in SPSS is not enough, so to speak.
      Secondly, please note that I have nothing against observational research. I have something against shoddily set up observational research, and I think that the latter is a rampant issue in the social (and that includes medical) sciences. Ioannidis, IIRC, also mentions somewhere how the more shocking the 'finding', the more likely it is to turn out a misinterpretation of data, or an outright statistical fluke (or worse). This is part of what I mean by "lack of replicability".
      Lastly, I am not sure what you're trying to accomplish by straw-manning me, and suggesting I am a 'scientific bigot.' Again, I have already stated in the post you are replying to that I think that anything can be studied scientifically. Observational research is a fine, and a legitimate mode of research, depending on how it is done. What I object to is simply the -- pervasive -- attitude of not taking methodological issues seriously, and the equally wide-spread issues with the lack of statistics education. I can understand that understanding statistics is difficult, and that it is frustrating that the education system is lacking in that respect, but from this it does not follow that those issues can be ignored, or that knowing which button to press without understanding the limits of the tests being used is unproblematic..

    23. Re:Psychology is a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very interesting. Now, I want you to describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about...your mother.

  21. Hey, just like Freud! by xeeno · · Score: 1

    You would think a psychologist would know better.

  22. Re:dutch niggerist fakes fucketyfuck by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    duck my sick

    I'm not sure that is what he had in mind when he said "eating meat". Then again, he is Dutch...

  23. Smoke more! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stapel: "Uhhhmm lets see... Facts?... Fiction?......Same thing!"

    "It has long been known that acute marijuana administration impairs working memory" Study on usage of weed and Forgetting

  24. meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this news story is okay, but could use a bit more irony. Like, if all of his papers had been on scientific dishonesty or the prevalence of fraudulent data.

  25. "retraction" letters Science and Nature every week by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Its rather stunning. They have a special section at the beginning of their letters section with the bold title "Retraction". Something almost every week now.

    To be fair, most of those authors are not intentionally deception like this guy. But the system encourages rushing sensational results into print (like arsenic-based life) before they can be verified elsewhere. "Nobel prize or bust!" P.S. This result has not been retracted, although many have asked for that.

  26. Psychology is a *SOCIAL* science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are many reason why it is not considered a "real" science. nuff said.

  27. Im not sure which is worse... by SuperCharlie · · Score: 2

    Faked data like this or studies/data that are suppressed by the legions of lawyers at Monsanto and Pfizer. One is simply fabricated, the other is more boot-to-the-neck.

  28. Perposterous by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    His accusation is silly.. now get the hell away from my steak, it's mine!! MINE!

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  29. Obligatory Far Side Cartoon by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1
    of how the treated vegans in the Old West.

    Mister (says a cowboy to a vegan across and Old West saloon counter), I said, can I buy you a chicken leg!

  30. Re:Kill him by Jeng · · Score: 1

    Political fraud is worse, it kills millions.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  31. Dependencies by bigdavex · · Score: 1

    What about other papers that reference this one? We wouldn't exactly want to cascade delete, because the dependency might not be complete, but a system for reviewing all of the referring papers would be nice.

    --
    -Dave
    1. Re:Dependencies by Hentes · · Score: 1

      If they relied on studies that were not repeated by another group then they weren't doing real science in the first place.

    2. Re:Dependencies by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      No kidding, you've just describe 99% of ALL "science".

  32. It's not his fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's genealogically forced to cut corners that would save him money.

  33. Fake data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope equal prison.

  34. Re:"retraction" letters Science and Nature every w by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Psychologists do not get Nobel Prizes. Ever. Too bad really, because there is some really stunning work out there.

  35. The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    Read and return:

    A. A. Derksen (1993). The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science. Journal for General Philosophy of Science 24 (1):17 - 42. "In this paper I will argue that a profile of the pseudo-sciences can be gained from the scientific pretensions of the pseudo-scientist. These pretensions provide two yardsticks which together take care of the charge of scientific prejudice that any suggested demarcation of pseudo-science has to face. To demonstrate that my analysis has teeth I will apply it to Freud and modern-day Bach-kabbalists. Against Laudan I will argue that the problem of demarcation is not a pseudo-problem, though the discussion will bear out that Laudan's replacement question, namely the question whether someone's theory is well-confirmed, is not, as Lugg claimed, independent of the question as to whether that person is a pseudo-scientist. I further argue that my prototype pseudo-scientists do not have the shortcomings highlighted in Thagard's recent analysis of pseudo-science"

    It is quite fun, and shows that parts of the foundations of some psychology is a sham, not a science, that it is fluffy, or some other degrading adjective. The umbrella of psychology should not shelter those parts.

    1. Re:The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      What does the author mean by "Bach-kabbalists"? I unfortunately don't have access to the paper at the moment.

    2. Re:The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by clifyt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "shows that parts of the foundations of some psychology is a sham, not a science"

      So, looking at Freud and then applying these tests of pseudoscience to him is an indictment of psychology because some of the roots of the field have not panned out?

      So what does that say about the alchemists in conjunction to modern chemistry or physics? Quite a bit of scientific understanding of the world and what it is made up of and how it all fits together were put together by men whose methodology was on par with sorcery.

      You go far enough back in any field and you realize that someone important probably got something so wrong that it would invalidate their whole work if applied to todays standards.

      That said, I find most of what Freud professed to be utter bullshit...and it pissed me off through most of my undergrad and into my postgraduate work...people would bring up theories of his and I would just shudder. And then I realized that without the application and expansion of his beliefs, psychology may be 50 to 100 years behind what it is today. And we realize that even with his flawed beliefs, we can make a pretty accurate assessment of the world, or more to the point...the people that live within it. We know that with his talking therapies, even with his overemphasis on genitalia and the mommy problems, people are around 60% more likely to have measurable healing compared to those that receive nothing. We know that some interpretations of dreams or beliefs while inaccurate using the Freudian perspective, can lead to a better understanding of the person. In some ways, until imaging scanners and technology to analyze this comes into place, we realize we will most certainly be wrong...but in some ways correct.

      In 50 years from now, discoveries made through things like the Hadron Collider may show that the gods of physics may have been wrong...will that mean they are not scientists because they are only postulating that which they have not yet been able to observe? Until the first atomic bomb was detonated, we could not observe, let alone replicate what we had believed. And yet, it worked.

      That said, I pretty much moved from psychology to another science and I really don't have a dog in the fight any more. However, the more I deal with other sciences, the more I realize that they are grasping at straws in much the same fashion psychology has done...simply waiting for technology to catch up so that things can be proven or disproven...luckily, most other fields don't have to deal with quite as much human subjects protection / IRB that stop us from finding the truth. Not to go Godwin on things, but if you want to see true science in psychology, one only need to look back at Nazi Germany where one didn't need approval to do bad things to people to be able to reproducibly get results under a number of scenarios and stimuli. I think most would agree that the pseudoscience nature of psychology today is far more civilized and humane even while limiting the research and validity of what could be.

    3. Re:The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the article:

      "Bach-kabbalistics, an alleged scientific approach aiming at the discovery of hidden, significant numbers in Bach's compositions. I will use the study of K. van Houten and M. Kasbergen, Bach and his Numbers (1985), as a recent contribution to the field of Bach-kabbalistics. The discussion will display the striking similarity between Freud and Bach-kabbalists. Actually, in so far as there is a difference between the two, the Bach-kabbalists will have the advantage over Freud."

      That's a killer! Kabbalists have an advantage over Freud. Ouch! LOL

    4. Re:The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by renoX · · Score: 1

      > people are around 60% more likely to have measurable healing compared to those that receive nothing.

      Bah, that's hardly science: you forget to compare with people receiving a 'placebo' treatment, Freud's cures may be *only* a placebo..

      Also one essential difference is that today's physicist and chemist don't especially hold in high regards alchemist whereas the psychology scientist still haven't disregarded Freud..

    5. Re:The Seven Sins of Pseudo-Science by geekoid · · Score: 1

      While Freud has been proven wrong, He was a neurologist, not a psychologist.

      Behavior is something that happens in nature. Studying what happens in nature it is science.
      And yes, the parts that are shown to be wrong should fall away from the science. Just like the aether.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  36. Psychology is ... not ... a science. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Done that. A lot of statistical fluff without any attempt at discovering the actual mechanism. Things have been slowly changing lately but due to mostly outside influences (MRI studies of the brain and such). It CAN be a science but the culture of psychology research as it exists now is far below any standards of rigor.

  37. Dilbert by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    Wasn't there a Dilbert where he tells the PHB that studies show that people accept faked data as readily as real data.
    PHB: How many studies?
    Dilbert: 87.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  38. Re:"retraction" letters Science and Nature every w by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

    That's not true. Daniel Kahneman got the Nobel Prize in economics for his work with Tversky on behavioral economics.

  39. Uh oh, a scientist lied by efalk · · Score: 2

    Well, I guess this proves there's no such thing as global warming. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights---science---what-s-it-up-to-

    1. Re:Uh oh, a scientist lied by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I think what it proves is there's no such thing as global McNuggets.

  40. Re:"retraction" letters Science and Nature every w by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Winning Nobel prizes generally requires more than one paper, or, if they only take one paper, they take years of confirmation and important effects due to that paper.

    But journals, which are a profit center, don't seem to mind publishing junk any more.

  41. Future job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He can always recycle as a politician.

  42. Re:dutch niggerist fakes fucketyfuck by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, we duck your sick(ness) by modding you to oblivion. Sometimes I wish there was a rule on /. that if you get enough troll mods (like 10) that your post is deleted and everyone who downmodded you gets their points back. I'm sad I wasted this much time responding to your sick(ness).

  43. Another PC liar exposed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Politics has severely tainted scientific publishing for decades.

    Even Nobel prize winning scientists have had their funding removed and publishers refuse their papers for anything that doesn't pander to the dominate political ideology.

    But every clown that mindlessly parrots politically popular propaganda can slide by for decades and even when exposed are never prosecuted for fraud.

    Science should be about truth, not what is politically popular.

    1. Re:Another PC liar exposed. by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      "Science" has NEVER been the pure and incorruptible ideal it's often represented tot he public as. So far as how most non-scientists perceive technology and "science", one could legitimately argue that they are, to the general public, not much different than religion.

  44. Difficult field by Katchu · · Score: 1

    Studies in this field are really difficult to do. A rigorously defensible experimental regime is nearly impossible to establish. Inferences made from Factor Analysis and Correlation matrices are nearly shaky as Ouija boards and Yarrow sticks. Low numbers of casual observations made from a preselected class of people does not constitute good random sampling. The best conclusions in the field would barely serve as hypotheses in a true science. The "softer" sciences are extremely difficult to work with.

    --
    Keep Doing Good.
  45. Re:And ... in months withour an 'r' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  46. And to apply the obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So based upon this fakery, it would seem that vegans are dishonest and self-righteous?

  47. Is there no such thing as by shoehornjob · · Score: 1

    peer review? Do they still do such a thing or has science turned into one great big research grant grab. Look past the money.

    --
    "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine