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Scott Adams Proposes a Fourth Branch of Government

LoLobey writes "Dilbert creator Scott Adams is proposing a fourth branch of government in the WSJ. He describes it as 'smallish and economical, operating independently, with a mission to build and maintain a friendly user interface for citizens to manage their government.' It's a humorous article with some interesting ideas including internet access as a constitutional right and a constitutional ban on all election contributions for any candidate that polls above 10%. He's primarily proposing a method of getting verifiably accurate information on various issues to aid voters in making decisions, but despairs on his own blog about reader's comments on the article."

341 comments

  1. Better idea by MrEricSir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How about getting rid of corruption? Corporate donations, professional lobbyists, etc.

    Just make it flat out illegal, and consider it treason.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Better idea by Jeng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    2. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i wish i could argue with this but he's right.. i mean travel through news reports of any country in northern africa. prior to the libyan and egyptian conflict.. check any country outside the EU... they're all rife with corruption. i mean i complain loudly and often about our government but im thrilled to have a soapbox on which to do it yknow. (nopain i know i hate my karma too ogain)

    3. Re:Better idea by chainsaw1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Assuming "our own" is the United States, there are twenty according to this list:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_index

      --
      - Sig
    4. Re:Better idea by Enderandrew · · Score: 2

      Campaign donations not spent in a campaign can be pocketed afterwards, so there is a legal way to basically bribe any politician.

      I believe Australia makes it illegal to give money to politicians, period. The government gives parties money to run the elections. Politicians are well paid, so you don't get all the private-sector failures. But they can't be bribed.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    5. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easy answer single term limits ( NO ONE CAN EVER BE RE-ELECTED) and anyone who has ever held office in the senate house or white house never qualifies for public office again EVER.

      No more people making a living by running the country. Instead you have to be there because you actually want to serve the population.

    6. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because clearly the right to lobby was put into the first amendment for no reason.

    7. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Define corruption. Corporate donations and professional lobbyists are considered part of the right to free speech under the First Amendment of the US Constitution, therefore using them is not considered corruption any more than the exercise of any other right.

    8. Re:Better idea by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Sortition also eliminates election bribes- gives a better cross-section representation of our society- allows for a more diverse viewpoint than a "this idea or that idea" 2 party system.

      Would kill the lobbying industry.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    9. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It SHOULD be considered treason for an elected official to trade votes for personal gain. By doing so, they are betraying millions of people who are trusting them to be acting in the common good. They are traitors to the people of our country. They should be put in jail or ejected from the country, and no, I don't think that's too harsh at all.

    10. Re:Better idea by Riceballsan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How will this solve anything. Candidate approaches, gets donations from ____ corporation to help him win, makes changes beneficial to ____ corporation, finishes his term, goes to work for ____ corporation with a huge sign on bonus.

    11. Re:Better idea by Jeng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope, all you do is turn elections into lottery's for people who are backed by corporations while also making sure that those whom get elected this way don't know enough about how the government works to be effective on their own so they end up being reliant on the lobbyists.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    12. Re:Better idea by Bob-taro · · Score: 1

      Assuming "our own" is the United States, there are twenty according to this list:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_index

      Note that is an index of the PERCEPTION of corruption. The ones scoring better than the U.S. might just be better at hiding it.

      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    13. Re:Better idea by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      To bad what you consider it and reality are at odds. Those donations are made with the intent to corrupt the political process.

    14. Re:Better idea by Surt · · Score: 1
      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    15. Re:Better idea by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      OK, first of all, corruption is already illegal. If you can demonstrate a quid pro quo, it is a violation of the law.
      Now, let's examine your particulars. You want to outlaw corporate donations. What this means is that I cannot pool my money with a bunch of like minded people and form a corporation for the purpose of influencing the actions of government officials. That means you would prefer to see the fabulously wealthy have even greater influence over the decisions made by the government.
      You want to outlaw professional lobbyists. That means that I cannot hire someone who knows the ins and outs of government to get my concerns heard by the government official/legislator who can most likely address those issues. That means once again that the fabulously wealthy would have even greater influence over the decisions made by the government than they do already.
      The system is abused, but the mistake you are making is thinking that the powerful do not want this sort of thing. The result of campaign finance reform has been to make it harder to unseat incumbents. That means that politicians spend even more time in the seats of power associating with the rich and connected and less time (as a percentage of their life) associating with the common citizen.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    16. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      If by "our own" you mean the government of the United States of America, then I can point to several less corruptible governments including:

      Denmark
      New Zealand
      Singapore
      Finland
      Sweden
      Canada
      Netherlands
      Australia
      Switzerland
      Norway

      While I might be taking a bit of liberty in the interpretation (this is Slashdot after all), this is based on Transparency International's 2010 Corruption Perceptions Index (http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results)

      "The 2010 CPI measures the degree to which public sector corruption is perceived to exist in 178 countries around the world"

    17. Re:Better idea by Intropy · · Score: 2
      My first thought was that corruption is already illegal.

      My second thought was that making something illegal doesn't stop it from being done.

      Then I saw "Corporate donations, professional lobbyists, etc." Your examples of "corruption" aren't corruption at all. You just want to shut up people you don't like.

    18. Re:Better idea by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Now how much of that is the structure of the government vs the culture of the country?

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    19. Re:Better idea by steelfood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are free speech issues at play here. An individual (not corporation) can still purchase air time on television to endorse that person's preferred candidate. Even if banning non-human entities from political speech, it still gives an unfair advantage to those who have money.

      The only defense against corruption is education. The most corrupt governments are also in nations with a poorly educated populace. And it's not a cause-effect relationship, but worse: a vicious cycle. Poor education leads to government corruption which leads to even worse education.

      Conversely, an informed (and non-apathetic) populace will result in an accountable government. As this is the information age, the populace should be more informed, not less. Yet, because of an inability to separate information from disinformation brought about by poor primary and secondary education, the populace is actually significantly more misinformed than it ever has been before (it's important to not confuse uninformed with misinformed here, because while the former damages the system through a lack of action, the latter causes damage through negative actions, and is much worse).

      Everything else is just skirting the real problem. Sure, it'll help. But only if the primary problem gets resolved.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    20. Re:Better idea by Intropy · · Score: 2

      There's also the issue of cultural norms. What people in one country might consider to be corrupt, people in another might think is fine behavior or so commonplace that despite being bad it's expected and so doesn't count.

    21. Re:Better idea by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      That is only if they drop out of the race, or don't run again. So long as they finish their campaign and run for office the entire time, they get to pocket what is left over. That money is used to repay a candidate for any expenses they occured directly. The rest stays in an account for their next campaign bid. Or they donate the remainder to the party and get a tax write-off for the donation.

      http://blogs.wsj.com/wallet/2008/11/04/what-happens-to-leftover-campaign-money/

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    22. Re:Better idea by Surt · · Score: 1

      I don't know what you mean by pocket. Your linked article says specifically, they don't get to do that.

      "“The rule is that [campaign donations] can’t be used for personal use,” says FEC spokesperson Bob Biersack."

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    23. Re:Better idea by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

      So you support welfare for the rich? Because that's exactly what these people are buying.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    24. Re:Better idea by RandomAvatar · · Score: 1

      After looking at your link, I would drop America's corruption perception index down 3-4 levels and drop Canada's down 2-3 levels. Some of the reasons being that the U.S. is keeps trying to make things better for corporations at the expense of it's citizens, and Canada keeps allowing itself to be bullied into following the example of the U.S. There are many more reasons why I think this, but I want to keep this post short.

    25. Re:Better idea by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      "The government gives parties money to run the elections"

      Sorry, but I'm still gagging at the prospect of PAYING candidates to screw me when they are elected. Public financing sounds all good until you realize that election starts the corruption in *earnest*. Then it seems, to me, to be public financing of the screwers by the screwees.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    26. Re:Better idea by canadian_right · · Score: 1

      Canada has less corruption. This is mainly because offering bribes is impolite.

      The USA comes in 22nd. Not bad, but room for improvement.

      --
      Anarchists never rule
    27. Re:Better idea by Canazza · · Score: 1

      I refuse to believe Jamaica is more corrupt than China :|

      Hell, I refuse to believe there's any crime in Jamaica and it's entirely populated by Bobsledders and Malibu drinking DJs.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    28. Re:Better idea by canadian_right · · Score: 1

      Ban it!!! It makes you feel good, but it does infringe peoples rights. I agree that changes are needed, but you have to think these things through a bit and make sure the cure is not worse than the disease.

      Some limits are required. But the best solution is a better informed and educated population. Too bad being "elite" is soon as a bad thing in so much of current USA culture. Personally, I WANT to vote for the elite, meaning those best qualified for the job.

      --
      Anarchists never rule
    29. Re:Better idea by icebike · · Score: 1

      That is only if they drop out of the race, or don't run again. So long as they finish their campaign and run for office the entire time, they get to pocket what is left over. That money is used to repay a candidate for any expenses they occured directly. The rest stays in an account for their next campaign bid. Or they donate the remainder to the party and get a tax write-off for the donation.

      http://blogs.wsj.com/wallet/2008/11/04/what-happens-to-leftover-campaign-money/

      Your own citation refutes what you say:

      According to the FEC, if a candidate for federal office (a presidential hopeful, say) loses and is a congressperson, he or she can roll over unused money into a re-election kitty. They can also repay themselves for personal funds used during the campaign up to a certain amount, depending on the race and when those funds were used. They can contribute the dollars to a charity. Candidates may also return money to contributors, but determining who gets how much is a delicate operation avoided by most, if not all, candidates. For local elections, state rules vary.

      “The rule is that [campaign donations] can’t be used for personal use,” says FEC spokesperson Bob Biersack.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    30. Re:Better idea by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Just make it flat out illegal, and consider it treason.

      Once again...

      Treason is defined in the Constitution. Without a Constitutional Amendment to redefine it, none of this would meet the definition.

      And good luck getting a Constitutional Amendment redefining treason in such a way that the new definition can't be used against YOU in a court of law, if the government so desires.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    31. Re:Better idea by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      ban all contributions of cash to a politician corporate or individual.

      money is not speech, this is evident in that we don't put "speech" into our wallets

      if people want to contribute to a cause they believe in they can donate their time, every american gets 24 hours every day, and 7 days every week, how we spend our time is our own choice

      having more money, or being in a position to influence an organization which controls more money, is no justification for giving someone a greater voice

      in addition, corporations are not people and do not have rights, any rights. they do not have the right to use their time or assets to influence politicians or public opinion of politicians.

      keep corporations terrified of attempting to involve themselves in the political process with aggressive revocation of corporate charters and arrests for bribery of executives who directed corporate resources to be used for politics, also allow shareholder lawsuits against executives and directors for compensation and recoupment of misappropriated funds or resources such as employees paid to accomplish political goals.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    32. Re:Better idea by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Because lobbying is a kind of petition for redress of grievances and therefor protected against any laws. Not that I agree with that interpretation, but it makes more sense than "money is speech" citizens united type rulings.

    33. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seems rather short sighted to me.

      What if you have someone who is absolutely brilliant at legislating, and does a great job of it? "Sorry, your 4 years are up, back to Kinko's you go, now it's time for some horridly corrupt and inept person to take office and undo all the good work you've done!"

      How about, instead, we make it our goal to have a logical, educated, informed populace who evaluates the past performance of each candidate against his or her own goals, the requirements of the position they were in, and the capabilities of the person running against them, then choose the best person for the job? How about we require some minimal level of civic literacy before we allow people to vote?

      Yeah, I know, that'd require work, and all the idiots spouting off about how shitty Obama or Bush are would have to actually know something about the government before they could take part in the election of representatives, which means that somebody somewhere will come up with a reason why the plan is racist, classist, sexist, or sexual-identity-ist, because how can you expect [poor|brown|gay|female|non-english-speaking] people to know something about the democracy before they can take part in it.

      It's so much easier to just check the name with the little (R) or (D) next to it, because that's the way every member of your family has voted since your great grandpappy came back from the Great War, right?

    34. Re:Better idea by Americano · · Score: 2

      twenty who are "perceved to be less corrupt"; that does not mean that they are less corruptible.

      But in broad strokes, looking at that list you'll find that most of the countries at the top of your list are fairly liberal democracies/republics. I'd say that offers a pretty strong suggestion that liberal democracy and free market economies are relatively less corruptible than the alternatives.

    35. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      According to www.transparency.org (http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results) there are 21 countries less corrupt than the US.

      But then again, it all comes down to how you define corruption. I would consider giving a politician massive amounts of money to get elected as a clear case of corruption. But on the other hand, I'm not from the US, so....

    36. Re:Better idea by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2

      Let me put it this way: would you rather that candidates are bribed by corporations through donations, or by yourself through taxes?

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    37. Re:Better idea by MrEricSir · · Score: 2

      I don't care where it came from, it hasn't worked. Only a fool repeats a failure and expects a success.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    38. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Corruption is a result of capitalism. Just get rid of capitalism. That's what everyone really wants, anyway, even if they don't yet know a good alternative. But you don't need to know a solution to admit that there's a need for one and to start looking for it.

    39. Re:Better idea by Americano · · Score: 1

      You're aware that numerous groups (including ones whose political aims and goals you likely support quite fervently) engage in lobbying too, right? Unions lobby for better labor protection and business regulations; Environmental groups lobby for better wetlands protection and stricter emissions regulations; Are you going to suggest that these groups will now be put to death for treason if they hire somebody to represent them and meet with legislators about issues near and dear to the members of the group doing that hiring?

      And if that's your opinion, don't you think that seems a bit... well... dictatorial? And wouldn't that just result in higher levels of corruption than the system you seem to think is so corrupt?

    40. Re:Better idea by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Especially Representatives, they serve two years and their terms all expire at the same time. You would literally be training a new House of Representatives from scratch every two years. They'd have to elect new leadership without knowing one another, form committees with no idea of who has what skill sets... it would be all but impossible. At least the Senate would only be turning over a third of its membership every two years.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    41. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "âoeThe rule is that [campaign donations] canâ(TM)t be used for personal use,â says FEC spokesperson Bob Biersack."

      I'm not using those donations for personal use. I'm hiring my brother-in-law's firm as a campaign advisor, the law firm where my son works is responsible for my legal advice, and making sure that the funds are managed by the bank where my golfing buddy works as an advisor.

      When I lose the election, my brother-in-law will run for office, and he'll need a campaign advisor...

    42. Re:Better idea by Pope · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that only US elections have an insanely drawn-out timeframe, starting with the Primaries. No wonder it takes tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to run for President.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    43. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      Well, assuming you are posting from the USA and according to the 2010 Transparency International index there's Denmark, New Zealand, Singapore, Finland, Sweden, Canada, Netherlands, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, Ireland, Austria, Germany, Barbados, Japan, Qatar, United Kingdom, Chile and Belgium.

      But nice jingoistic tub-thumping, by the way.

    44. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't corruption already illegal?

      Money laundering, bribery, and conspiracy are literally legalized in politics now. You tell me. The fact you not only asked this question but that others modded this insightful wonderfully proves just how clueless the general population is. Seriously, spend some time reading and learning how LITERALLY bribery and money laundering is a typical day for our professional politicians. And if you haven't reach the point where you're sick in your stomach and wonder if revolution is within you're lifetime, you haven't learned nearly enough about the bullshit which is destroying our country from the inside.

      Seriously, stop watching American Idol and start making yourself sick from learning what's really going on in the world. Its not like its all that hard in the age of the Internet.

    45. Re:Better idea by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Singapore, lawmakers are paid around 1 million dollars a year to reduce the corruption.

    46. Re:Better idea by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Campaign donations not spent in a campaign can be pocketed afterwards, so there is a legal way to basically bribe any politician.

      In US, at least, that is not true. Using a campaign fund for personal expenses is prohibited. Usually if a congressman retires with money in the kitty, he turns it over to the party, or occasionally the campaign fund of a friend.

    47. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's a measure of corruption, not corruptibility. You need to take into account how long those governments have existed.

      I think you'll find that the ratio between perception of corruption and age of government (not country/nation, but government) is the best in the US.

    48. Re:Better idea by aarroneous · · Score: 1

      This needs to be modded up.

    49. Re:Better idea by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      That isn't because of the Constitution or the inherent system of US government, that is a model designed by the political parties and fed by the media.

      Take the election of Lincoln in 1860, his first speech and appearance where he talked about the Presidential bid was on February 27, 1860. Then on May 9–10,the Illinois Republican State Convention was held in Decatur. Lincoln's followers organized a campaign team, and Lincoln received his first endorsement to run for the presidency with the election held on November 6, 1860.

      For comparison, On February 10, 2007, Obama announced his candidacy for the November 4, 2008 election.

    50. Re:Better idea by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      ban all contributions of cash to a politician corporate or individual.

      So, you want only the wealthy to hold political office? Because under your system they would be the only ones who could afford to run a campaign. Corporations are groups of people. All of the people who are part of the group that is a corporation do not give up their rights just because they banded together as a group. If you are going take the actions you suggest against corporations, it will need to apply to all organizations. That would include Unions, Environmental organizations (such as Sierra Club), etc. If it does not, corporations will just form such groups and give money that way. If you write the laws to prevent corporations from doing that (assuming that you can), you will give organizations such as Unions, the Sierra Club, the NRA power such that corporations will have to bow to their wishes against the interests of the corporations customers and stockholders.
      Your "solution" would result in politicians having even more power over the economy, meaning in order to be a success you would have to be politically connected.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    51. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's saying that political donations of any type are a form of corruption. I disagree that they all are, but I do agree with the suggestion that corporate and any other kind of organizational donation should simply be banned. I see no need for them in a democracy. In fact, they are banned in my country (Canada). Only personal donations are allowed, and those are limited annually per candidate/party.

    52. Re:Better idea by PancakeMan · · Score: 2

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      How about our own before Citizens United?

    53. Re:Better idea by need4mospd · · Score: 1

      YES! The perfect solution to getting rid of corruption in government is to give it more power!

    54. Re:Better idea by Sentrion · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have the opposite idea. No term limits and no re-elections. Every politician stays in office for as long as he or she is doing the right thing. Those who believe he should be removed from office can cast a vote to remove him or her from office, but this vote can be rescinded and re-applied as often as desired, giving the official the chance to comply with the demands of his constituents. Once the number of recall votes exceeds 50% of the number of active registered voters under his jurisdiction then the politician is put on notice that he may be removed from office and replaced by any challenger that accumulates 50% of the number of eligible votes from the registered voters. There would be no planned election days. Every voter could back a candidate at any time and keep his vote behind that candidate for as long as he would choose, and could change his preference at any time. Undecided voters could choose neutrality for any office they had the right to vote for, but then they would have to accept the decision of the active voters who backed actual candidates. Voters would be required to renew their registration annually, but not all on the same date - but more like renewing the inspection sticker on an automobile. This would weed out citizens that were no longer actively engaged in the democratic process. In this sense voters would maintain and continuously update their registration more like maintaining a web based profile rather than casting ballots at the end of a campaign.

      The problem with single terms is that once in office there is no incentive to follow the will of the people. Once in office a single term candidate could push his own radical agenda or the agenda of his future employer. There are already too many bureaucrats that take cushy jobs at the companies they were appointed to regulate after they leave office. The same is even true of judges that take on higher paying jobs as arbitrators working for private arbitration firms. These judges spend their years in office making decisions in favor of the businesses the judges hope to work for as arbitrators. Their decision record is more effective than any job interview alone could ever be.

    55. Re:Better idea by jd · · Score: 1

      Ah, but what if that's what they WANT you to think?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    56. Re:Better idea by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      Lobbyist: Hey, you! Want to win a real lottery? All you have to do is sign here/vote/walk through that door...
      Representative (best case): Hmm...
      Representative (worst case): Ker-ching!

      While I like the idea of sortition, I think it would only stop repeated bribery of one representative.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    57. Re:Better idea by jd · · Score: 1

      I dunno. It has taken Britain over 9,000 years to become as corrupt and degenerate as it is, but the US has taken a mere 300 to at least rival, if not beat it. That would make the US 30 times as easy to corrupt.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    58. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... countries with little worldly influence? If Australia invented force field technology, and became a superpower overnight, how long would it remain corruption-free?

    59. Re:Better idea by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      You assume it's an either/or situation. I don't. Since bribery is already illegal, public financing is double-dipping.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    60. Re:Better idea by Intropy · · Score: 1

      So you want to eat children? Because that's exactly what you're proposing. Oh, hey there non sequiter.

    61. Re:Better idea by jd · · Score: 2

      I would agree. Yes, it would require work. It would also require a lot of money, since to make a good evaluation requires more than the facts on the candidates but also research skills and a good enough grounding in a wide enough range of topics to be able to interpret those facts. And that means overhauling the educational system in America. (I'm thinking an absolute minimum would be to triple the mandatory educational budget.) It would also require purging schools of quite a bit of corruption, or the money will simply end in the pockets of organized thugs and megachurches.

      What you're describing, and what I've believed in for some time, is a system that is very close to the one proposed by the Chartist movement - except I believe theirs was unnecessarily elitist and exclusive - and the one proposed by Plato in his book The Republic, which does indeed cover the idea of educating people to the necessary standard. It should be possible to raise standards to be as inclusive as humanly possible, as per Plato, but then include only those who opt-in to those standards, as per the Chartists. Those who voluntarily exclude themselves can't reasonably expect to be included (and could reasonably argue that it imposes on their right to exclude themselves if they want to).

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    62. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >singapore, hong kong, & japan are above the USA.
      stopped reading there

    63. Re:Better idea by umghhh · · Score: 1

      well corruption by its nature is hidden so you rely on proxies. The index itself is criticized but people and organizations (like The Economist) use it as some indication. Good enough for me.

    64. Re:Better idea by jd · · Score: 1

      At least some of those have opted to use Proportional Representation. A number are parts of federations larger than themselves that they respect, leading to much less insular thinking. However, one could argue that even when these are the case, the structure of government is a consequence of the culture of the country. For that reason, it becomes hard to distinguish.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    65. Re:Better idea by umghhh · · Score: 1

      "they can't be bribed" - that is naive or

    66. Re:Better idea by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      It's not an either/or situation, but the third alternative is worse. That's because self-funding makes politics a game strictly for rich people - we'd be creating another aristocracy.

      Contributions from third parties that are based on positions taken by candidates are distinguishable from bribery only by figuring out what came first - the contribution or the position? With public financing, everyone is on an equal footing and there's no point in changing positions for money. The goal is to remove the incentive to make contributions into bribes - and that only happens if everyone gets the same contribution, regardless of what they're saying.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    67. Re:Better idea by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I believe Australia makes it illegal to give money to politicians, period.

      No, campaign contributions are legal but heavily regulated and audited. Pauline Hanson was thrown in jail for mishandling her campaign funds. I think it's our culture rather than our laws that keeps campaign spending within reason.

      The government gives parties money to run [in] the elections.

      They give each individual in the race a modest allowance.

      But they can't be bribed.

      An individual voting against their publicly stated party line (crossing the floor) is much more unusual here than in the US, the Labor party go so far as to forbid their members to cross the floor. This is a double edge sword but as far as bribery goes, it's much harder to bribe an entire party than it is to bribe a few key individuals.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    68. Re:Better idea by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      I like the idea, but you have to change it from 50%. Otherwise you very often will get Candidate A who has 49% of the people in support, Candidate B who has 51%, and every day when you do the numbers they've switched positions and the other becomes the legislator.

      But it's an easy fix. You use approval voting, so that voters can register their approval or disapproval of each candidate at any time. Then as long as the incumbent either has more than 40% approval or has more approval than any challenger he gets to stay, otherwise the challenger with the most approval gets the seat.

      You still have the problem that it could be there are several candidates and the two highest only have e.g. 30% approval and they keep switching places, but that seems unlikely. And in that event maybe it isn't a bad thing: With approval voting you have to be some kind of scoundrel to get significantly less than 50% approval, so clearly they're both doing something terrible wrong and it wouldn't take much for a new challenger to come in and beat both of them.

    69. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that is an index of the PERCEPTION of corruption. The ones scoring better than the U.S. might just be better at hiding it.

      Yes, but do you think that it is likely that this is the case?
      I suggest that you travel to a few of the countries listed both above the U.S. and below the U.S. in that list and make the call yourself.
      To me the list appears to be largely accurate but I have not experienced all places so there could very well be some minor differences.

    70. Re:Better idea by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      The perception of corruption and corruption are tightly coupled though. Not just in that more corruption leads to more observation of corruption, but also that corruption is caused by people believing the system corrupt already. Notice how politicians accusing other politicians of being corrupt are the most likely to be corrupted themselves? It is human nature to be jealous and therefor a perception of corruption breeds corruption, and anti-corruption politicians will always end up being the most corrupt.

    71. Re:Better idea by Toonol · · Score: 2

      I've mentioned this before, but I think one minor law could drastically reform our election process: Make it illegal to indicate party affiliation of a candidate on a ballot.

    72. Re:Better idea by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      Could've been a good excuse, if it was true. If you look at that list, and compare it with almost any other list, you'll see that it's the same countries that are always ahead of you (assuming "you" are US). There has got to be something in it. I'm not saying that there's no corruption where I live (Norway), but I'll bet you a lot of US dollars that it's less than in US. Also - I'll bet you there are a a lot of hidden corruption there too. Actually, I think a lot of what is legal in US would be defined as corruption in Norway.

      Disclaimer - I've got 5 years of experience from working with FCPA and similar

      --
      This is blinging
    73. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easy answer

      You misspelled "idiotic, short-sighted, I spent three seconds thinking about it and I don't even know what the fuck I am talking about" answer.

    74. Re:Better idea by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      I don't really see that changing very much. We already have limits on what a corporation can donate to a candidate, and it doesn't seem like it would make much difference to see each member of the board of directors making a personal contribution rather than the corporation itself contributing the same amount of money.

      What people (somewhat legitimately) complain about is Citizens United, but the problem isn't donations. It's direct expenditures. Microsoft decides that they like Candidate A rather than Candidate B. Then they realize that Candidate B is pro-choice and the district has a lot of Catholics, so they themselves run ads in media consumed predominantly by Catholics "reminding" voters of Candidate B's position on abortion. And they run ads in media consumed by blue collar workers that show Candidate B in a video clip advocating corporate tax cuts (but cutting out the part about how it would be aimed at reducing domestic unemployment), etc.

      Then Candidate B can't respond because the election laws significantly limit who can contribute to a candidate's campaign, so the actual candidates don't have access to as much money as do corporations that can make unlimited direct expenditures (as opposed to donations to candidates).

      Sometimes I think it would be better to just open the floodgates and allow unlimited donations from anyone. That would make all the candidates so flush with ad money that no one could be drowned out by corporations outspending them, and none of the candidates would have to compromise their values to get money because they could get more than enough from the companies whose interests already align with the candidate's own preferred policies. If the candidate likes network neutrality then he can get $250K from Google or Netflix. If he doesn't like network neutrality then he can get the same money from AT&T or Comcast.

      The idea that some issues have big money backing one side and not the other doesn't hold water because people vote for candidates and not issues. A candidate with five million bucks in the bank from parties who agree with his policies can afford to turn down a $250,000 donation from a party who wants the candidate to change his position, or withstand that party spending the same money attacking him. A candidate with $50,000 in the bank can't.

      Allowing the donations would just give the candidates greater control over their campaigns instead of the corporations, and reduce the number of corporate-funded attack ads because the corporation could give the money to the candidate they like instead of attacking his opponent.

    75. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      none of those are presidential systems

    76. Re:Better idea by thestudio_bob · · Score: 1

      Also, can you please point out an example of a government that is less corruptible than our own?

      The Empire wasn't corrupted. If it wasn't for the terrorist rebel scum, it would still be a model government to this day.

      --
      The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
    77. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I think the 99%ers whining about corporate cash are doing it wrong. My life's goal is to eliminate the Limited Liability shield.

      And yes, that includes for all levels of employees, because 60 years later, "Just Following Orders" is still unacceptable, no matter how much the corporate bootlickers wish they could justify what they do to appease their corporate masters.

    78. Re:Better idea by hamalnamal · · Score: 1

      Well seeing as a portion of those countries are G20 nations, and a G7 country as well.... Saying they have little worldly influence is like saying Google is a small company without much influence just because you can't see it behind ExxonMobile

    79. Re:Better idea by treeves · · Score: 1

      ...the degree to which public sector corruption is perceived to exist...

      "Perceived" is a key word in that phrase. But I suppose it is difficult to measure otherwise.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    80. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New Zealand - at the cost of state-funded political advertising and spending limits (ie to make sure you cant buy an election).

    81. Re:Better idea by djlowe · · Score: 1

      There's another alternative, at least at the Federal level: Mandate an election contribution system that evens the playing field for all candidates by making all contributions a part of a common pool for each elected position.

      Donations would earmarked when made: "Federal Senator #1 From California", "3rd District Representative From Ohio #3", etc.

      There would be a fixed time period for donations, and once the donation period ended, no more donations could be made and all of the money donated at that point would be evenly divided between all candidates that meet the electoral requirements for that position.

      Doing this ensures that all candidates have basically the same amount of money.

      In addition, all donations would be non-tax exempt for Federal taxation purposes, whether they came from corporations or from individuals.

      Then, require that all candidates only use their share of the money from the pool for that election. Any attempts to side-step this on the part of a candidate or his/her supporters would be illegal, and if discovered would result in automatic disqualification from that election, even after the fact, and if the candidate won the election, the results would be voided and the person that came in second would take the office.

      This is the only way I can see to reform campaign donations, by building checks such as these into the process itself.

      And for those that would say that this isn't fair? It's eminently fair from a monetary perspective, and the candidates would then be forced to actually run on the strengths of their campaign platforms and wouldn't be able to easily "drown out" others. In addition, it helps to somewhat remove the "campaign donation as bribe" aspect that exists in the campaign donation system today.

      Sadly, it's obvious that we can't trust politicians and those that support them to play fair of their own accord, and so I think that we have to resort to draconian measures such as these to force them to do so.

      Regards,

      dj

    82. Re:Better idea by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Interesting concept - I hadn't thought of it. I'll keep that in mind.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    83. Re:Better idea by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      So your proposal is what? Politicians can never find private employment again in their life after being elected to office?

      What are they supposed to do after they're out of office?

    84. Re:Better idea by djlowe · · Score: 1

      Interesting concept

      Thanks! There's two clarifications that I'd like to make:

      "Doing this ensures that all candidates have basically the same amount of money." should be "Doing this ensures that all candidates have the same amount of money." I had originally thought to permit candidates to use their own money in addition, which would have resulted in the "basically the same" part... but I think that any candidate wishing to donate should do so under the same terms as anyone else.

      The other clarification:

      "Sadly, it's obvious that we can't trust politicians and those that support them to play fair of their own accord" is better stated "Sadly, it's obvious that we can't trust politicians and those that support them monetarily to play fair of their own accord", which was implied but is better stated explicitly.

      Regards,

      dj

    85. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your logic does not work for me.

      1). Hiding a visible quid pro quo is easy and is done all the time;
      2). You seem to argue against limiting corporate donations. You are aware that wealthy people regularly use their corporate control right? That corporate ownership is most often their source of wealth?
      3). You seem to argue against limiting lobbyists. You are aware that most wealthy people do not personally lobby, right? And the people they hire to do so are called lobbyists?
      4). You seem to argue against campaign finance reform. Even if we accept your premise that it has failed thus far, it does not follow that all campaign finance reform will also fail.

    86. Re:Better idea by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, since William the Conqueror invaded in 8000 B.C....

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    87. Re:Better idea by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 1

      Money laundering, bribery, and conspiracy are literally legalized in politics now.

      Citation needed.

      (Also, conspiracy to do what, exactly? Conspiracy to commit crime is a crime.)

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    88. Re:Better idea by Dunrobin · · Score: 1

      Even better - take all of the power to interfere with everyone's life that politicians have usurped over the years and no one will bother to bribe them. No power, no corruption. We don't need more laws - we need less government.

    89. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great idea! Then any third party is automatically doomed.

    90. Re:Better idea by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      How is bribing someone with money speech?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    91. Re:Better idea by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 1

      Third parties are inherently doomed by a first past the post voting system. And if you fixed that (e.g. with approval voting) then third parties would have the same ability to raise money as major parties -- nobody donates to third parties because they can't win, if they could win then people would donate.

    92. Re:Better idea by dual+eyes · · Score: 2

      I like how Canada handles political donations. It is illegal for Corporations, Trade Unions and unincorporated associations to make political contributions. Individuals are limited to $1100 a year and anything over $20 cash has to be receipted. The government must do its own fundraising over a diverse population and cannot be bought by corporations or rich individuals. I don't think this system could ever be implemented in the USA though. The politicians already make too much money from the corporations to ever willingly give it up.

    93. Re:Better idea by Nerdorable · · Score: 1

      Japan being on that list as one of the "cleanest" countries at #17 just removed whatever credibility the page might have had in my eyes. Clearly this list only tallies publicly documented and acknowledged forms of corruption for the countries listed. The US, UK, and many other western countries on that list have laws criminalizing different forms of corruption. They also have institutions in place to investigate and address that corruption internally or publicly. Most importantly however, we have freedom and accessibility for media. Some of the "cleaner" countries on that list don't rank as more corrupt because they do not acknowledge corruption or have any means of addressing it legally, socially, or even culturally. It is disingenuous to claim that these countries are "cleaner" simply because that it what the statistics they choose to release about themselves say about them.

    94. Re:Better idea by DaleSwanson · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with either idea proposed so far, but I'll add this idea. When politicians leave office the people vote on their approval rating. If it's over 50% then they get a lifetime pension. Under 50% and they get nothing. This would have some problems. Particularly that people would vote based on how well the country is doing as a whole, which individual politicians might have very little influence over. My personal idea is just to bar anyone from office who has received gift, donations, or items worth over $10,000 over the last 10 years, from either people, corporations or anything else. Get a petition with 100,000 signatures and you get a set amount of funding to promote yourself. All ads have to come from that fund.

    95. Re:Better idea by DaleSwanson · · Score: 1

      I like this idea. I'd however propose a delay before the switch could happen. Perhaps require 50% for over 3 months. This would protect against a fickle public changing its mind every other day.

    96. Re:Better idea by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The CPI measures perception of corruption due to the difficulty of measuring absolute levels of corruption.

      Guess that list doesnt say what you thought it said.

    97. Re:Better idea by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      this is based on Transparency International's 2010 Corruption Perceptions Index

      Corruption Perceptions Index

      Perceptions

      You were saying?

      While I might be taking a bit of liberty

      Why yes, you were.

    98. Re:Better idea by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I think compulsory voting (with the option to abstain, but you still have to show up) would be very helpful. I don't know if it would be constitutional in America, but people would be a fair bit more involved if they didn't really have a choice about showing up. Imagine how many people would opt out of paying taxes (without losing the benefits) if they didn't have to - that's the same reason why voter turnout is always so low, especially for the smaller, local elections.

    99. Re:Better idea by jd · · Score: 2

      The Normans (lit. The North Men, or Norse Men) were basically the same as the Danes who had ruled over most of England under Danelaw - which, ultimately, was not significantly different from Saxon law.

      Neither Danelaw nor Saxon law (the Dooms) were significantly different from Romano-British law (which was more British than Roman and was derived from Insular Celtic law). The Insular Celts, unlike their European counterparts, were more absorbed by the Bronze Age people than vice versa. Genetically, their fingerprint is no more than 25%, with the Bronze Age peoples at 65% and everyone else (Romans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Norse, Danes, etc) making up the pathetic 10% that's left. Insular Celts largely replaced the previous language but many of the traditions and practices from the prior peoples remained intact (and some survive intact to this day).

      Thus, the modern government of Britain is a direct descendant of the Mesolithic governmental systems, without interruption and without substantial change. Hell, most of the county boundaries abolished in Thatcher's time were Mesolithic political boundaries - something well-attested by archaeology.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    100. Re:Better idea by HJED · · Score: 1

      Australia certainly does not do that, corporations as well as the Unions are major contributors to campaigns

      --
      null
    101. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand why Sweden is so high in this list since they are clearly acting as a US puppet in the Julian Assange case

    102. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't count Canada. What's going on right now is madness.

      Not as bad as the US by any means, but it's a clusterfuck up here.

    103. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I've mentioned this before, but I think one minor law could drastically reform our election process: Make it illegal to indicate party affiliation of a candidate on a ballot.

      And as an added bonus, you'll get more extremist candidates getting votes by mistake. Brilliant. .

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    104. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      "The government gives parties money to run the elections"

      Sorry, but I'm still gagging at the prospect of PAYING candidates to screw me when they are elected. Public financing sounds all good until you realize that election starts the corruption in *earnest*. Then it seems, to me, to be public financing of the screwers by the screwees.

      Yes, clearly the best system is to pay politicians nothing and leave it all to the free market, as that will guarantee there is no corruption.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    105. Re:Better idea by fuzzfuzz · · Score: 1

      Hmm.. Fairly liberal might be pushing it too far.. 4 of the top ten are from the somewhat socialistic Scandinavia.

    106. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Why are you equating paying politicians with bribery?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    107. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      How is bribing someone with money speech?

      Saying "here, take this suitcase full of used dollar bills and vote for X" is speech. Clearly, it must be protected as free speech, as otherwise the US will collapse into atheistic anarchy.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    108. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      So you want to eat children? Because that's exactly what you're proposing. Oh, hey there non sequiter.

      No, it follows logically that if you let people buy influence, the ones who will benefit most will be the people with the most money.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    109. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Too bad being "elite" is soon as a bad thing in so much of current USA culture. Personally, I WANT to vote for the elite, meaning those best qualified for the job.

      The word "elite" does not mean "best qualified for the job" in political terms. It means a self-serving, self-perpetuating clique who arrange things in their own self-interest against the wishes and best interest of the majority.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    110. Re:Better idea by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Even better - take all of the power to interfere with everyone's life that politicians have usurped over the years and no one will bother to bribe them. No power, no corruption. We don't need more laws - we need less government.

      You, sir, are a libertarian and a retard. A sort of libertaritard, if you will. Obviously, the world will be a wonderful place once government is emasculated entirely and corporations can pursue their wonderfully enlightened goals of fucking everyone over to make as much money as possible. Truly, the free market is the magic solution to everything.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    111. Re:Better idea by Dunrobin · · Score: 1

      Corporations cannot FORCE you to buy their products or services. Government, on the other hand, is literally nothing BUT the use of force. Corporations - which are the creation of government - can only stifle competition by using political connections. Are you really unable to understand that simple a concept?

    112. Re:Better idea by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      Corruptible isn't the same as corrupt. Our government has been less corrupt in the past.

      GP was asking for an example of a form of government less susceptible to this problem.

    113. Re:Better idea by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Corruption depends a lot on perception - if a senator accepts 2 million dollars of Super PAC money for their Presidential election campaign if they vote for big pharm, is that corruption, or working the system? Big pharm doesn't think so, and it is perfectly legal in the US. I don't expect such practices will ever die in the US under the current system, because what rich person wouldn't vote for a policy that either gives them more money or pays them for more media face time?

      Personally I find PACs as a form of legalized bribery, but not everyone thinks so - especially rich politicians who get to vote on such things.

    114. Re:Better idea by Americano · · Score: 1

      Grind the "lol socialism" axe elsewhere. Liberal democracy is a term, which has a specific meaning, and all 4 of the countries from "somewhat socialistic Scandinavia" certainly exhibit clear indications that they are liberal democracies.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

    115. Re:Better idea by vbraga · · Score: 1

      After my experience with compulsory voting in my home country, I doubt it makes people more involved. Most seem to vote for almost random candidates, if not for reality show "celebrities" and other sort of scum. Heck, the fools even elected an illiterate clown in the last federal election.

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
    116. Re:Better idea by Original+Replica · · Score: 2

      "political donations of any type are a form of corruption".

      Donations should only be allowed to candidates that the donor is legally allowed to vote for. Corporations, unions, and lobbies could not give any money. Also multi-millionaires could not give outside of their state or district. All donations should be fed through a "Voter Contribution Department" that sends donations to the intended candidate, but anonimizes the donors, not only removing the names, but issuing the moneys daily to the campaign on a rolling one month average. Advertising "paid for by The Friends of CandidateX" should then be illegal and all contributors to "Friends of CandidateX" should be prosecuted for tampering with the election process. People may only place advertisements on land they own, and speak support from the mouth (and online identities) that they own.

      --
      We are all just people.
    117. Re:Better idea by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 1

      It is not criminal activity if it is legalized. That's what legalized means. It is not conspiracy if it is not a crime. There are certainly things like bribery which are legal--but actually walking up to a Senator and saying "I'll give you ten grand for your vote" is still illegal.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    118. Re:Better idea by jwhitener · · Score: 2

      We could probably kill several birds with one stone if we strengthened and extended libel and slander laws to political speech.

      You want to buy and make a commercial to say something about a policy or candidate? You better make sure it is factually accurate and not misleading or do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, go directly to jail.

    119. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perception of corruption need not accurately measure the level of actual corruption. The CPI is generated through a series of surveys. Apparently it is fairly accurate, but who really knows. It sounds really flaky to me. Also, it is highly reliant on a definition of corruption that may be applied differently by individuals.

    120. Re:Better idea by nobodie · · Score: 1

      Having lived in Holland (my wife is Dutch) and worked with Singies (who are shocked and amused by the political chicanery of the rest of the world-- they solved corruption by making it single point. Their dictator is so rich and powerful he is incorruptible) I have to agree that the American system is really not so hot. We have the potential to be in the top five of that list, but only if we really make serious radical changes. If occupy can push us to do that then we win. If the tea party fools win we are dead meat on a stick

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    121. Re:Better idea by Wandering+Idiot · · Score: 1

      If you're trying to come off as more informed, you should probably know that it's spelled superPAC, as in Political Action Committee. They can run ads for the candidates and such, but direct bribery is still illegal. Limiting campaigns to only public money would probably solve that, although there are negative free-speech implications to trying to doing so effectively. The other problem you didn't mention is government officials getting cushy jobs after retiring in the industries they were regulating. The solution would seem to be generous pensions and stronger bans on accepting such jobs, which for positions like President and Congressman would essentially mean working for no corporations at all. Advocating such things is likely more effective than calling everyone crooks and sheeple while not knowing correct terminology, but by all means...

    122. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if I agree with this index, here in Canada while at the lower levels corruption in the bureaucracy is very low the corruption at higher levels and for elected officials can be much more "in your face" than would be tolerable in the US. Several of our previous Prime Ministers have been neck deep in it including the current one. They seem to have an easy out though once the RCMP start to investigate file a defamation suit claiming that the investigation is hurting their reputation whether they are guilty of not this seems to force the investigation to be dropped.

    123. Re:Better idea by swalve · · Score: 1

      Banning corporate political contributions does nothing to the rights of the individuals- if someone is going to give $100 to GroupThinkPAC, they can just give the $100 to the politicians they support directly. What it WOULD do is defocus the power of the people running those organizations. All GroupThinkPAC has to do is convince its donors to give them money, which they then focus onto politicians that THEY think deserve the money (or deserve to be beaten).

      What really should be illegal is for donations to be made by people or orgs that aren't directly represented/affected by the candidate running for office. There is no reason why anyone should want to give some congressman from a district that isn't theirs any money, except for corruption or power. For national candidates, money donated can only be spend in the jurisdiction it comes from.

      And for primaries, I'd love to see some changes there. This constant barrage of straw polls, bean counting and tea leaf reading ("Candidate X wins straw poll of a convention hall of crackpots. On his way to White House?") It's great political theater, but I'm not sure it is good for democracy. These campaigns play out nationally, but only get voted on locally, a few jurisdictions at a time. It's good that candidates are run through the ringer for a while, because that shakes out the nutjobs. But if my state votes early, and there is some horrifying revelation later in time, my vote for McNutjob sticks. Here is what I'd like to see: a series of three primaries, each held the same day all across the country. For the first two, anyone who gets more than 5% of the vote moves on. For the third, it is some kind of instant runnoff thing- who do you want, and if they don't get a straight majority, who do you want instead?

      The elections could be held four or five weeks apart, ending with the main election. Maybe July, August and Sept, and then the main in Nov.

    124. Re:Better idea by swalve · · Score: 1

      I think they do apply, it is just that the really bad examples happen just prior to an election day, and there is no time to correct the slander because the election is over. And it is too easy to spin the other guy as bad if he takes you to court.

      Maybe a better solution would be to make the elections a 2 out of 3 affair.

    125. Re:Better idea by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The person I replied to wanted to ban all political donations. Yes, you could ban corporations from giving political donations to candidates. However, if you ban corporations from running political ads, you do infringe on the rights of individuals. I cannot afford to take out a radio or tv ad on a political race or issue, but I could afford to band together with 20 or 30 or 500 other people who felt similarly to me on an issue or candidate to run an ad. That is actually what the Supreme Court case Citizens United vs the FEC was about. A group of people got together and formed a corporation in order to produce a movie about Hillary Clinton. The FEC (Federal Election Commission) said it was a violation of the McCain-Feingold Act and said that they could not run it within a certain time frame of the primaries. The Supreme Court ruled that that violated the First Amendment rights of the people who formed Citizens United.
      As to primaries, I believe that they should not be funded with taxpayer dollars. The purpose of primaries is for a group of citizens (The members of the political parties) to decide who they want to back in the upcoming elections. It should be up to that group to come of with the money to hold the elections they use to choose their candidate.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  2. Can I propose another branch too? by characterZer0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Sanity Check Branch.

    Composed of 251 adult citizens with college educations (5 from each state, 1 from DC) selected at random for 1 year terms. Each law after presidential signing or Congressional override must be read aloud and provided in writing to the branch. They vote on it in secret. If it does not get 60% of the votes, it dies.

    --
    Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    1. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bwahahahahaha!

      You still think college education makes you sane!

      You sir have the funniest post in this thread!

    2. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, great. You are a single parent, struggling to make ends meet, or even worse cannot get a job (yes, there are those of us who fit that description and have marketable college degrees). You've been selected at random to sign on with the Sanity Check Branch! Yay! You are employed for a full year.
      But then what? After the year is over you cannot go back to your job. I don't know of very many employers willing to wait on you a full year for the equivalent of jury duty. What's that? You spent the last year doing a job completely unrelated to your professional field. You are still unmarketable if you were before. And if not, well, spending a year "off" from your career sure as hell isn't going to help. Even worse, imagine if you were due for a promotion in a couple of months when this federal draft takes effect.

    3. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, chosen "randomly", this will work. I especially like the part where they aren't voted by the people, yes, this will work wonderfully.

      Your truly,

      The Koch brothers.

    4. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by dreemernj · · Score: 2

      College educations and insanity are certainly not mutually exclusive.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    5. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is the sort of thing can could be done over the Internet. You can stay where you are currently living and can presumably even do this in your off hours. Maybe a small stipend for your time? Hey, how about we reduce the salary of members of Congress to pay for this?! Man, this seems like win-win to me!

    6. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 2

      Distantly related to an idea I saw being batted around years ago, which I liked very much -- make the House of Representatives itself work this way. Serving your district in the House is like jury duty, you get a summons, you serve for a year, and then you're done.

      It's fun to think about, but the problem is that if the members (of sanity-check or my wacky HoR) are known to be short-timers, their privileges will end up being suborned by the permanent staff, who will have the institutional memory needed to work the system. And then you're back to square one. See the British TV comedy "Yes, Minister" for a vivid illustration of the dynamic.

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    7. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad idea...look at the shithole California's in

    8. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by icebike · · Score: 1

      Much cheaper to just run a Federal Department of Turkey Farms.

      Pay them well. Give them desks and titles. Just don't let them do anything real.
      It would provide a career path for all branches of government, somewhere you could sent promote your useless employees and community organizers.

      Best if these farms were located well away from the seat of government, perhaps in Golgafrincham, Wyoming. No actual animals would be involved.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      I suspect that it would be physically impossible to read every vote aloud in a reasonable (50 hour work week) time frame. It certainly wouldn't be possible for individual people actually understand, let alone weigh in on and discuss, every aspect of ever law of the current system. Now, maybe that's part of what you're trying to address under the assumption that your secret voters would vote down anything that was so unwieldy and cumbersome.

    10. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by corbettw · · Score: 1

      I would add to that the requirement that any law can only be presented to the committee after the President has signed it, and they have 2 weeks to approve or disapprove. At the end of two weeks, the law defaults to "disapproved".

      Good luck getting monstrous laws passed under that regime!

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    11. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You signed that incorrectly. This is clearly a progressive idea, so the Koch brothers are not interested. However, George Soros would heartily approve.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    12. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, that sounds like the point.

      We currently have a system in which the decision makers can't read every bill they vote on. Each has a staff of people who presumably can be trusted to steer the Congressperson the right way.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    13. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 2

      Why don't laws, when tested, only need a majority of the Supremes to pass them? Shouldn't any decent law require unanimous approval of the supreme court to be good enough to apply to everyone?

      E.g. Why should the common folk be required to follow a law that a *Supreme Court Justice* doesn't think should be.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    14. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Although there are MANY thing wrong with what he is proposing there is already a system in place for people who are members of the National Guard to maintain their jobs when they get called in.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    15. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Surt · · Score: 1

      But the going rate on insanity in the college educated population probably falls below the 40% threshold.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    16. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is tea party rhetoric, this is really right up the Koch brothers alley. They would absolutely LOVE a way that they could block any legislation they don't like. The fact that it would happen in a way that they could pick and choose whom gets on the committee is just icing on the cake.

      If you really don't think they are interested perhaps you could tell my why the GOP hopefuls are sucking the Koch brothers cocks so fucking hard?

      The republican majority will not really have a choice in whom is the GOP candidate because the Koch brothers are the ones who really get to choose. And as usual the GOP is going to bend over take it and tell them how good it was.

    17. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except the Nation Guard is opt-in. I'm talking about a draft.

    18. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      yeah, just kill checks and balances entirely. The president can just veto the party line and only allow things through that he likes.

    19. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Composed of 251 adult citizens with college educations

      Sounds good, but obviously public universities won't count, and let's tack on "land owners" while we're at it.

    20. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always preferred the two departments of oversight: The Department of Truth and The Department of Lies, of course you need a department to make sure they never meet!

    21. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      It's not opt-in for the employers, it's the law.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    22. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by __aagbwg300 · · Score: 1

      Getting nine lawyers to agree on anything, much less an interpretation of the Constitution, is a self-defeating premise.

    23. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same thing for jury duty.

    24. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The Sanity Check Branch.

      Composed of 251 adult citizens with college educations (5 from each state, 1 from DC) selected at random for 1 year terms. Each law after presidential signing or Congressional override must be read aloud and provided in writing to the branch. They vote on it in secret. If it does not get 60% of the votes, it dies.

      Two-thirds. Require 168 votes in your little organization. Other than that, I approve of the concept.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    25. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by dreemernj · · Score: 1

      I would look for a study of insanity in non-college students, but all studies now solely use college students.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    26. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect that it would be physically impossible to read every vote aloud in a reasonable (50 hour work week) time frame.

      If it can't be read aloud in 50 hours, it's almost certainly bad law.

      If Congress is passing so many laws that they all can't be read aloud during the Congressional Term, then Congress is passing a lot of what are, almost certainly, bad laws.

      One easy check for a bad law - the people who voted for/against it haven't read it.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    27. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      They vote on it in secret... great, maybe they should also be provided secret identities ala the witness protection program, so lobbyists can't find them, and then you could penalize them with threat of the death penalty if they are caught seeking out bribe money. (Hint: given human nature, this rule will be violated in every session, regardless of the death penalty.)

    28. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Patriot Act.

      Just because a law is passed, doesn't mean it got read.

      The smaller the time frame for it to be debated and voted means that it will be a 100% knee jerk vote, much like how the Patriot Act got voted in.

      Just because you make it more difficult for government to work correctly doesn't mean that the government won't work, it will just not work correctly.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    29. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      The GOP is more about not passing laws.

      The progressives are more about creating regulations.

      Therefor this is clearly right up the alley of the GOP.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    30. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by SteveFoerster · · Score: 1

      This is the sort of thing can could be done over the Internet. You can stay where you are currently living and can presumably even do this in your off hours.

      You could read all federal legislation in your spare time? You are one fucktastically fast reader!

      --
      Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
    31. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Americano · · Score: 1

      I see, so a group primarily comprised of affluent white people (with a few token minorities mixed in) get unlimited veto authority over all pending federal legislation! What could possibly go wrong with this plan?

      How about we not reinvent the wheel, and simply let the people... elect representatives... to craft & vote on legislation for them?

      How about instead of requiring the system to be incorruptible (an impossible task), we elect candidates who aren't corrupt, and toss them out on their ass if it's found that they are corrupt, or have been corrupted? Self-healing / self-correction in the system is far more important than the system being immune to compromise.

      How about we educate ourselves about issues before we spout off with opinions and solutions, rather than building some sort of infernal machine that makes all our decisions for us?

      How about we demand that journalists behave as journalists, rather than editorialists, and report facts, so that we may be a better-educated public?

      The problem isn't that "the system is totally corrupt and broken," the problem is that the people operating the system are fucking morans who keep electing other morans who mouth the same promises and consistently fail to deliver after being elected, election after election after election, and expect them to run the system properly. Look at it this way: if you put a retard at the controls of the LHC, do you really expect ground-breaking science to happen?

    32. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by imahawki · · Score: 1

      I would add to that the requirement that any law can only be presented to the committee after the President has signed it, and they have 2 weeks to approve or disapprove. At the end of two weeks, the law defaults to "disapproved".

      Good luck getting monstrous laws passed under that regime!

      I would like to add that this branch be sequestered. They are not allowed to know which party (people) sponsored or voted for or against the bill. Their review is to be based on merit, not "I'm going to vote however the Democrats did because that's my party!"

    33. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like someone that has never worked with an Engineer, Lawyer or Doctor.

    34. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, because I didn't have the opportunity to finish college, I am prohibited from participating in my government?

      Your plan sucks. It would have excluded George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, Harry Truman and ignores guys like Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Jobs, etc, etc. Those are just the obvious ones.

      I'd like to wrap up my comment by mentioning all the complete morons I have worked with, who despite their disadvantages, somehow still have degrees. I can't imagine some of those people in government.

    35. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Composed of 251 adult citizens with college educations (5 from each state, 1 from DC) selected at random for 1 year terms. Each law after presidential signing or Congressional override must be read aloud and provided in writing to the branch. They vote on it in secret. If it does not get 60% of the votes, it dies.

      Let's not do that. First, college education is not a good criteria. Too many dumb people getting degrees these days. Second, "selected at random" is an easily gamed criteria and isn't democratic. Third, no secret votes. I don't like it one bit when Congress does voice votes. It destroys accountability.

      As an alternate proposal, how about any law can be reversed, if 2/3 of the state legislatures vote against it?

    36. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Progressives are about letting "experts" make decisions for everyone. This is about creating a group of "experts" to decide if a law should go into force.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    37. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Jeng · · Score: 1

      I find it funny that conservatives argue against "experts".

      How in the hell are you guys proud that you elect stupid people?

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    38. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      If they can draft you to fight and die on a foreign battlefield, why not draft you to serve as a lawmaker? How many guys came back from Vietnam with no job prospects during the stagflation of the 1970's. For their service I do think jurors who devote more than three months toward a single case should be entitled to a supplementary pension. Congress has been giving themselves a pension for decades, even those who serve only one term, so why not the same for a jury?

      I disagree that college education or land ownership or who your daddy was should have any effect on who get's to serve. An entrance exam could be designed and administered by the first jury of the sanity check branch could be put into place to exclude individuals who would not be competent to serve.

      As for your single-parent example, even our current jury duty system has exemptions for single parents and others with hardship. For what it is worth, though, even serving as a juror on a criminal trail can have career consequences. See link below for a jury case in the UK that lasted two whole years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/jun/12/workandcareers.observercashsection.

    39. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand, I argue against the government making my decisions for me, whether the person is an expert or an idiot.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    40. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      Will have to require a sanity test first to be included in the poll

      --
      This is blinging
    41. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      The Sanity Check Branch.

      Composed of 251 adult citizens with college educations (5 from each state, 1 from DC) selected at random for 1 year terms. Each law after presidential signing or Congressional override must be read aloud and provided in writing to the branch. They vote on it in secret. If it does not get 60% of the votes, it dies.

      Ah, now we get to the crux of the problem. Middle America would never accept graduates from our "LIBERAL!" education system. They all know that education is all a bunch of lies, and people should intuitively know what is right and wrong, true and false, based on their faith in their GOD-fearing leaders. That's why they are home schooling the next generation, so that they are never exposed to any of the "LIBERAL!" agenda, like science and philosophy. Your solution, although wonderful in concept, just adds another corrupt layer in an already corrupt system in practice.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    42. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The group is randomly selected, similar to jury members. Their terms expire. Insanity won't last long. I suggest that if more than x% (x = 75..90) of the members dislike a particular person because of obstructionist behavior, they can ask for a replacement for that slot. once. replacement is selected in the same manner as regular member.

    43. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Changa_MC · · Score: 1

      You could read all federal legislation in your spare time? You are one fucktastically fast reader!

      Absolutely! I can read a page of reasonable text in about a minute, and my spare time consists of 120 minutes per week. everything over that limit gets a "no." Why is congress trying to pass 6000 pages a week when no-one there has read more than 10?

      --
      Changa hates change.
    44. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad idea...look at the shithole California's in

      It's definitely fucked up.... just like what I did to your shithole.

    45. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      251 adult citizens with college educations ... selected at random for 1 year terms.

      Why so many? Make it just one citizen chosen at random every year. Only rather than voting directly on the laws (since laws are complicated to understand to non-lawyers, and even then, and also to prevent the citizen's political inclinations to make the decision rather than his reason) we could have her answer to seemingly-random questions which address the issues tangentially. We could also get a computer to draft these questions for us. Hmmm...

    46. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      How does that address judges legislating from the bench?

    47. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Why don't laws, when tested, only need a majority of the Supremes to pass them? Shouldn't any decent law require unanimous approval of the supreme court to be good enough to apply to everyone?

      Because no decisions would ever get reached.

    48. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by kubitus · · Score: 1
      I agree fully and add my suggestion of e-government and e-parliament: I propose additionally the preparation of e-parliaments, e-senate and e-congress!

      Every elected representative should stay in his election district and be only represented by a robot head and speaker in the parliament.

      To this avatar-like representation the representative should have highbandwidth connection, so that his image and head movements as well as voice can be transmitted, and a back-channels showing the representative in his home-office the situation in the assemly room.

      This way the taxpayer saves a lot by avoiding the cost of accomodation and transport for their representatives, while maintaining a dirtect contact between voters and representative locally iwithin the election district.

      It has also the added benefit that lobbyists have more problems in contacting the legislative members and also contacts will be more visible as the voters will see who is contacting their elected representative - which can not when their representative is in Wahsington DC or their respective seat of government.

      one possible product: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/278794,bell-labs-builds-telepresence-robots.aspx

    49. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You realise that the president has veto powers already, right?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    50. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      But they aren't absolute.

    51. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Yes they are. The President can veto any legislation. There are - intentionally - no limits on what he is allowed to veto because the US government was created to make passing laws hard to avoid too much Federal control (that went well...). That is about his only official power, aside from being able to negotiate (but not ratify) treaties and command the armed forces. Unofficially, he can negotiate with the legislature, saying that he won't veto something he doesn't like if something he does like is passed.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    52. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      A presidential veto can be overridden with a 2/3 majority in both houses. Check the constitution. A 2/3 majority is nearly impossible, but there are reasons that he can't have absolute power over blocking laws.

    53. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      Is Rhode Island 5X bigger than DC?

    54. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I'd be more in favor of that if the number from each state were based upon that State's population.

      The Senate having equal members for each State already weights low population conservative States plenty.

    55. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by swalve · · Score: 1

      They same way it addresses the scourge of flying pigs. If a judge INTERPRETS a law in a way that the legislature doesn't like, they can just repeal that law and write a better one.

    56. Re:Can I propose another branch too? by swalve · · Score: 1

      That is the point. Senators are not representatives of the citizens, they are representatives of their State as a whole. 50 states, 50x2 senators.

  3. Re:Obligatory by djdanlib · · Score: 1

    Yikes. An obligatory XKCD for a Scott Adams article. Times have changed!

  4. im the only repub who feels this way but by nopainogain · · Score: 0

    im sick of corporations in uncle sam's pocket. corporate donations to joe-schmo really create a negative influence. im a conservative pro small govt, pro freedom kinda tea party-ish kind of guy but not so that Pfizer can get its next anal leakage product to market more smoothly.

  5. There is a fourth branch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's called the press. Of course Adams knows that, and I wonder if this is not all tongue-in-cheek because the idea of putting the government responsible for posting "objective analyses" of the issues sounds like something out of Dilbert.

  6. Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Because we all know that the government should be the one to decide what is true or not.

    Scott Adams has reached his level of incompetence.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we all know that the government should be the one to decide what is true or not.

      Scott Adams has reached his level of incompetence.

      If you read his article, you'll notice that it proposes that the new branch of government present both the pros and cons of different issues, as well as the actual evidence behind claims. That way, it would be a verifiable source of information, much like the scientific method.

    2. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by ajlitt · · Score: 1

      And as we all know, it's impossible to spin research to an ignorant public.

    3. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Right; editing you opponents argument can only lead to better and clearer communication.

      There is no room for any abuse, we can trust the government to always verify 'the truth'.

      Scientific method should also be put under government control. We can have a ministry of peer review.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by LoLobey · · Score: 1

      I'm sure he would agree with you, thus his proposal.

      --
      We have nothing to fear but fear itself! And Spiders!
    5. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      "Scientific method should also be put under government control. We can have a ministry of peer review."

      I hate to break the news for you, but most universities are goverment funded.

    6. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'Ministry of Truth' by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Because we all know that Scott Adams is a completely serious writer, and only presents the most logically complete and fully thought out ideas to the general population?

  7. Simplify it by jasno · · Score: 2

    How can a democracy function effectively when the government is more complex than the average voter can understand?

    In order to make intelligent decisions, voters need to understand what they're controlling. If they can't do that, you've got to remove some functionality.

    --

    http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
    1. Re:Simplify it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can a democracy function effectively when the government is more complex than the average voter can understand?

      In order to make intelligent decisions, voters need to understand what they're controlling. If they can't do that, you've got to remove some functionality.

      The government is already simple (The Constitution isn't a long document). The average voter could understand it if they wanted to, but most people didn't pay attention in their high school civics classes.

    2. Re:Simplify it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is that a failing of the government? Your "average voter" isn't even smart enough to understand the distinctions between the powers of the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches of government. You're not going to get any kind of government more complex than a dictatorship pandering to that level of stupid.

    3. Re:Simplify it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with simplification so the citizens can understand it. However, the USA is not a democracy. It is a democratic republic. Many of our problem stem from minimizing the republic part.

    4. Re:Simplify it by gman003 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to drop this WH petition here, since it's relevant. It's a small, simple request - simplify the tax code. For now, don't make substantial changes. Just get it from 500,000 lines to 50,000, without significantly changing the burden placed on each tax bracket. Simplify it enough that an actual citizen can pay his own taxes.

      It really needs to be done to the entire United States Code, but you want to start small.

    5. Re:Simplify it by emorning · · Score: 1

      In order to make intelligent decisions, voters need to understand what they're controlling. If they can't do that, you've got to remove some functionality.

      But the average American is not much more intelligent than a squirrel, if we dumb down that far then the country will end like Lord Of The Flies. I'm only half kidding.

    6. Re:Simplify it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that logic, no one who doesn't understand all of the inner workings of a computer should be able to use one, or operate within the confines of a society that utterly depends on them. And yet, plenty of people who don't or even can't understand them use them every day of their lives.

      How? Because the user interface is designed so that end-users don't have to understand. And that's exactly what Adams' proposal is all about: redesigning the government's user interface so that the end user--the American public--can use it to a net benefit. Just like software, 99% won't care about the underlying function.

    7. Re:Simplify it by need4mospd · · Score: 1

      The average voter doesn't understand the exponential function. Home values were going up 10% or more per year and no one saw a problem with it. Beside the fact that it would mean their $200k home would be "worth" over 2 million dollars in less than 25 years. In other words, at the 25 year point, with a 10% growth rate, their home would appreciate in value starting at near $600 a DAY.

    8. Re:Simplify it by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      By using cash from big business? Or not...

      --
      This is blinging
    9. Re:Simplify it by a_hanso · · Score: 1

      How can a democracy function effectively when the government is more complex than the average voter can understand?

      For average people of that nature, there is a much simpler form of government. It's called a monarchy and has only one branch. Politics is a complex, age old problem. One needs at least a baseline level of intelligence to understand it and participate in it.

  8. so MORE government? by roman_mir · · Score: 2

    More government to fix the problem of too much government?

    Makes sense if one accepts the idea that too much debt can be fixed with more debt.

    Too many wars can be fixed with a bigger war.

    This is how you start, not with more government, with less government.

    1. Re:so MORE government? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I read your post and agree with the sentiments expressed. I then read your linked post. I think a much simpler ammendment to address the problem is one that has been suggested from time to time over the last several years. Every bill must contain an addendum that states where in the Constitution Congress is given the authority to enact such a law. Additionally, the courts would only have to rule on whether or not that provision of the Constitution actually did so. There would be no need to consider whether or not another provision of the Constitution might extend Congress the power to pass such a law. The only reason to examine other parts of the Constitution would be for provisions that forbid such a law.
      Another possible route would be that before a newly elected Congress can pass any legislation, all currently in force laws must be read aloud to the chamber while a quorum of members are present.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:so MORE government? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Even if they read the bills, who says they will understand them?

      Do you know that when lobbyists write bills, they write them in a way that is cryptic on purpose?

      Something like this: "repeal the section 17.0 /2 of the 173 under 108 to amend" - figure this out even if it's read out loud.

      Yes, I am not a lawyer, my point is that government is evil by design, but people need the evil government to do some amount of evil that needs to be done and people must pay for it. But people need to understand that government is evil by design and that it should be kept to a minimum and it should not be allowed to trample all over people's right and it shouldn't be allowed to grow.

      In worst case scenario I would put actual limits on amount of money that government can spend, like say: government cannot spend more than 500 Billion USD / year. That's it - they are given a fixed amount and they have to figure out how to live within that.

      But this only makes a difference if gov't cannot borrow and print - that's how they went over the natural barrier of taxes. They can't collect more than 18-20% real income tax no matter what and if they try to raise taxes to pay for the real spending, then people will realize what a monstrosity they have in front of them.

      You are correct - all bills must be Constitutional. That's why from now on, government should not even be allowed to increase the size of the federal register. They have 100 years of unconstitutional garbage in there and it needs to be repealed.

      Congressmen and Senators should have term limits. So should laws.

    3. Re:so MORE government? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm sorry sir, you have lung cancer. But don't worry, we're going to inject you with prostate cancer, too, that'll have you feeling much better in no time."

      Or...

      "Yo dawg, I heard you liked cancer, so we put a tumor in your tumor so you can metastasize while you metastasize."

    4. Re:so MORE government? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      just go for the jugular.

    5. Re:so MORE government? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The point isn't for them to understand the existing laws, it is to force them to get rid of some so that they have time to pass new laws. Right now, if they had to read all existing laws before they could pass new ones, they would run out of time before the next election rolled around.
      I agree with the idea that all laws should expire after a certain amount of time and the replacement cannot be a bill merely extending an existing law. When a law expires, Congress should have to pass a new law with all of the provisions spelled out. I, also, believe that when they amend an existing law, the bill to amend the existing law should contain the entirety of what the law will be after the amendment goes into force, not just the amendment they are passing.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:so MORE government? by swalve · · Score: 1

      You say too much government as if that is some universally accepted problem. The size of government isn't the problem, it is the relative effectiveness. Same thing with your debt analogy. NOBODY thinks you fix debt with more debt. And I don't think anybody prefers that their government take on more debt. You are framing the issue from a purposefully (or ignorantly) manipulative perspective.

  9. you can't make voters care by a2wflc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unless you can find a way to make voters care, nothing else matters. I'm afraid the UI they want has 2 big buttons "R" and "D" for voting and discussion boards where only like-minded people can post.

    1. Re:you can't make voters care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citizens of today understand only one button: "Like".

    2. Re:you can't make voters care by 0racle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Further, the R/D view is part of the reason voters don't care. It creates an US vs. Them scenario for people, I vote for my team and people who vote for the other are wrong. No thought, no discussion of issues has to occur, just keep the adversarial appearance.

      The two party system in the US has broken down to not being about issues, but about the two parties themselves.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    3. Re:you can't make voters care by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      And this is why it is a bad idea to make it easier for people to vote. We already have too many people who vote, but who don't care enough to pay attention for more than a month or two before the election (and then only to the major races--President, governor, mayor).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:you can't make voters care by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      The bigger issue I think is the increase of absentminded voters. The main 2 parties are nothing but shills for businesses, and any other party or viewpoint will never actually be known by 90% of the voters, who know little more about the candidates then the 3 minute political bashing that they have done on each-other. Most candidates can win on a pure "well the democrat smoked crack in highschool" based campaign rivaling against "oh yeah the republican has a gay son" without even having to focus on their viewpoints. I would say under 10% of the voters have any idea of anything they are voting on, and the 90% that go to the voting booths drown out the 10% that actually can make an informed decision. The problem with the "You must vote whether you know anything about either candidate or not", changes from a legitimate system to a cointoss.

    5. Re:you can't make voters care by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself. I'm hitting the 'dislike' button all the damned time, it seems.

      But I'm outnumbered.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    6. Re:you can't make voters care by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      You may have accidentally written "US" (instead of "Us") vs. Them, but it neatly illustrates why the party system is broken. Both sides essentially claim they represent "true" US interests and US values, everyone else is wrong. There is no middle ground, and compromise is as dirty a word and concept as communism.

    7. Re:you can't make voters care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even worse, they are for some reason *allowed* (perhaps even required?) to affiliate themselves with a particular party! As though being a Democrat makes one a keener eye with a surveyor's scope, or Republicans are somehow better at examining corpses (I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere...)

    8. Re:you can't make voters care by loshwomp · · Score: 1

      you can't make voters care

      U.S. voters don't care because the first-past-the-post voting system guarantees a two-party system, where the "winner" is favored only by a small minority of voters.

      See this video for an easy-to-understand explanation of the problem, and why an alternate voting system will help.

    9. Re:you can't make voters care by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      That's because you don't understand how important those offices are. Probably less so today than years ago, but still important. Suppose you have a dispute with your neighbor over where your property ends and his begins, wouldn't you much rather the final arbiter of interpreting the deeds be someone elected by popular vote than someone who owes their position to being related to the County Supervisors (one of whom happens to be your neighbor)?
      The problem is that too many people think that the important office is President and Congressman. Our system was set up that the important offices are supposed to be County Supervisor, State Legislator and Governor.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    10. Re:you can't make voters care by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Which means that the system is not functioning as intended.The important offices should be state and local offices, not federal offices.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    11. Re:you can't make voters care by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      The ones that don't care should be removed from the voting pool.

      The solution I like is to remove all names from ballots. The voter must write in the legal name of the politician next to the office title. If you don't even know how to spell the person's name, why are you voting?

      Some acomodations would have to be made for the disabled of course...such as a transcriptionist (sp?). But the gist of the idea is that people that don't care enough to look at who is running, shouldn't be allowed to vote.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    12. Re:you can't make voters care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

    13. Re:you can't make voters care by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      There is some degree of sense to it, though; I am very unlikely to ever vote democrat, mostly because I fundamentally disagree with them on the role and proper size of government.

      The problem is how you basically have two people you can vote for today who will have a chance of being elected.

    14. Re:you can't make voters care by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      I have a feeling that more people would care if they could get a more distilled, hopefully less biased, view of what's going on in Government (and right on your iPad:)). You know, what the news media should be doing if they weren't entirely profit motivated now.

      Most older relatives I talk to about issues, like net neutrality, or health care reform, find it very complex. Just try to google for good information, unbiased, about the health care reform bill. It is nearly impossible with the flood of partisan blogs out there.

    15. Re:you can't make voters care by swalve · · Score: 1

      Great. All that would do is turn elections into name spelling contests. The person with the easier to spell name would win. I think you could eliminate much of the problem by just eliminating the party designator from the ballot. Or, to be more evil about it, print the names and force the voter to write the correct name of the office they are running for next to the candidate they are selecting.

  10. Sounds like a joke. by jellomizer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    But really the government has got way to complex for us. The ultra rich have resources to work with it thus any new rule and regulation that popular demand puts up they will find a way around. Leaving the middle class to do the heavy lifting and getting screwed.
    I remember I was working at a small business. They were trying to get a grant "Geared to help train employees at small businesses" They filled out the paper work, they got rejected because the training needed to be in state, they did it again, because they deemed the training to be too specialized...

    The Democrats make government services that only the rich have the resources to take advantage of.
    The Republicans try to get rid of services so the rich don't have to pay for them.
    In short we loose with a two party system.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Sounds like a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In short we loose with a two party system.

      So, if there are more parties, do we tighten?

    2. Re:Sounds like a joke. by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      The Democrats make government services that only the rich have the resources to take advantage of.

      Wut?
      I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that only the rich would have access to universal healthcare.
      Or only the rich would apply for low-income housing assistance.
      Or only the rich would work for minimum wage.
      Or... you know what? Sorry, that's just silly. Broad generalizations hardly ever paint an accurate picture, but this one... this one is way WAY off in left field.

      Business grants though. That could be one example that fits. Still, it's spectacular cherry picking.

    3. Re:Sounds like a joke. by Intropy · · Score: 1

      You're being a bit uncharitable. He argued in the form "X does Y," not "X only does Y."

    4. Re:Sounds like a joke. by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that only the rich would have access to universal healthcare.

      I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Good one!!

      The "rich" will get the best care. The poor will get terrible care. And everyone else will not be able to afford healthcare ... just like it is now, only worse.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    5. Re:Sounds like a joke. by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      That's true enough.
      But it's as bullshity as saying that:
      Reds pass bills that destroy jobs.
      Blues pass bills that create jobs.

      While technically true, it's a broad generalization that's an empty and meaningless statement. Especially since the reverse is equally true in that both Reds and Blues pass bills that both create and destroy jobs.

      In short, he doesn't deserve any charitable assumptions since he's being a partisan hack. And for "loose".
      All that said, his general grousing about the two parties both looking out for the wealthy has some merit and he sounds like someone that should be out at OWS.

    6. Re:Sounds like a joke. by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      A universal healthcare system provides services to everyone (that's the universal part) at the expense of the taxpayer. Soooo.... the poor have the same healthcare as "everyone else". And "everyone else" just has to, you know, walk in the door. It's "free" to them. Other then taxes

      But you're right about the rich having the best healthcare. They can fly to Singapore for surgery, or pick up meds while in Cuba. And it cuts out the insurance companies, which are just leeching off a horribly broken system right now. So that's a plus.

    7. Re:Sounds like a joke. by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      The government is too complex and favors the rich because we keep voting for rich lawyers who then choose to compensate themselves with executive salaries. They make the law complex to advance their own profession. Take estate taxes for instance - rich people never pay them because they have their lawyers draft detailed estate plans long before they die. Estate taxes are instead paid by the stupid, the lazy, the ordinary people who win lotteries or are compensated with millions of dollars after an industrial accident.

      And don't listen to rich people complain about entitlement programs. Google "medicaid planning" to see all the lawyers that help the rich hide their money so they can get medicaid to pay their nursing home bills. Middle class families who don't have this medicaid planning are forced to "spend down" everything they have, including their 401k savings (and even bankruptcy won't take away your 401k savings). Google "offshore banking" and "asset protection" and you can see that the complex laws are written to control the middle class but there are always loopholes for the rich.

      A middle class jury making the laws would lead to a simple tax code, uncomplicated laws, smaller government, and more equitable social programs. Loopholes for the rich would disappear since the laws would not be written by the rich.

  11. Seems like it's already been done. by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

    Imagine being able to go to one website to see the best arguments for and against every issue, with links to support or refute every factual claim. And imagine that professional arbitrators would score each argument.

    I think I've seen something like this already...

    1. Re:Seems like it's already been done. by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      No. 'Best' is the part missing on most sites. And professionals.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    2. Re:Seems like it's already been done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where? I'd like a link.

    3. Re:Seems like it's already been done. by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      I was referring to this site.

    4. Re:Seems like it's already been done. by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      I have a problem with the "professional opinion" thing, because ultimately someone has to decide who counts as a professional. No one can do that in a fair and unbiased way.

      I don't think a website like this has any hope of working. This is a function that is currently performed by the media, and there's no reason to believe things would go differently if it were a government run operation. People just need to learn to check facts and build informed opinions themselves. But most people won't take the time or effort to do so.

  12. Jesus Christ by SlippyToad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Adams was at one time a funny guy, but he's long past his sell date. His cartoons are uniformly boring and predictable.

    And his ideas about anything outside of mocking office stupidity are simply breathtaking for their sheer wilful ignorance. I've read some of his other political blatherings. I filed them in the same bird cage where I keep David Brooks' meaningless self-aggrandizing bullshit, which is piled on top of the now thank-fucking-god-that-stupid-bastard-is-dead David Broder's similar excrescences.

    God save us from over-wealthy fools who think that money equals intelligence.

    --
    One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    1. Re:Jesus Christ by LoLobey · · Score: 1

      Yea! And his comment "The last thing I want to see is an opinion survey of people who are just as ignorant as I am." from the article proves how intelligent he thinks he is. /s

      --
      We have nothing to fear but fear itself! And Spiders!
    2. Re:Jesus Christ by dreemernj · · Score: 1
      And don't forget that last paragraph:

      If you think my ideas for fixing the republic are ridiculous and impractical, you're probably right. If you have better ideas, this would be a good time to share them, because whatever you've been doing until now hasn't been working.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    3. Re:Jesus Christ by canadian_right · · Score: 1

      So what is your better idea? I'd love to hear how you would fix the may problems facing the USA. I know you think you are smarter and better than Adams, so please, share your wisdom with us.

      It is so much easier to find flaws than propose solutions.

      --
      Anarchists never rule
    4. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume that SlippyToad has looked at the current trajectory of the US versus his financial situation and decided that since cannibalism probably won't happen within the lifetimes of his to-be-college-educated-in-engineering children he doesn't think anything needs to be done -- his are taken care of.

    5. Re:Jesus Christ by diegocg · · Score: 2

      Scott Adams has always been careful to note that his "political" ideas have no sense and that he doesn't know anything about the topics he talks about. He writes these articles just because he likes to write thought-provoking articles that make people discuss something different than the boring and predictable political bullshit that you find anywhere else. From TFA: "If you think my ideas for fixing the republic are ridiculous and impractical, you're probably right. If you have better ideas, this would be a good time to share them, because whatever you've been doing until now hasn't been working"

    6. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why we have a system that doesn't work anymore because of idiots like you who discard any new idea as a challenge against the comfort zone and broken system you have become to accpet as normal.
      Democracy is a good idea but like the Internet, the some of its fundamentals are broken because it became something not originally intended to be.
      Scott may be many things but he is right about two things:
      1. The current system (democracy) has become a popularity contest so naturally it's not the the best person who wins but the best social engineer (or bullshitter if we can follow your thought process).
      2. That fact that everyone gets a vote of equal importance is nonsense. More issues need to be tabled for more people to vote on based on their knowledge, understandign and contribution to the idea and solution, not simply because they have a right. For example, I don't want any guy to vote on a bill on digital privacy if they don't even know how to turn on a computer or understand what digital means.

      Any new idea is worth a shot because clearly the current system is obsolete.

    7. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he is doing his job as a cartoonist, and IMO he is doing it quite well. From my perspective, his cartoons are not predictable but often very recognizable. I think that is part of the pun!

      If you try to read his original article without your negative Dilbert-filter, I think you may find that is actually better than most of the proposals seen to improve or reform the system of governance around here. As he points out - why is the wording of the Constitution (by some) considered more (or equally) holy than the Bible, when actually it was created by revolutionaries trying to create an ideal form of governance from the basis of monarchy an the imperfect learnings of other revolutions?

      Getting it implemented is obviously not straight forward, but I would think that a few enlighten hackers might go ahead and actually create the platform suggested by Scott A. - Who knows what might follow from there? Somehow 99 percent might still be able to have some say...

    8. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, this is why I come to slashdot - insightful critique of the news.

      Seriously though, the guy simply throws out a bunch of ideas, which might or might not work; surely you can do something better than insulting him? What have you done today to make the world a better place, that gives you the right to excoriate the ones that are trying (even if failing)?

    9. Re:Jesus Christ by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      Why do you find it ignorant that he's wishing for some way for citizens to see a more clear, more distilled, less biased view of whats going on in politics?

      At least that's what I got out of his article. I was picturing some app that worked like Reddit. Ideas, laws, political actions, being up voted and down voted hourly. Some way to see what others are thinking, someway to make sure that well informed people are doing the voting, some way to stick to the facts and minimize opinion, etc..

      Hard, nay nearly impossible to do? Yeah. But as far as dreams go,wouldn't it be wonderful if debates about things like the health care reform bill had some sort of unbiased information pool that people could have looked at in an easy and engaging matter?

      I guess in the end, what I heard him saying was "I'm tired of the huge amounts of misinformation and I'm kinda thinking out loud about how it could be better".

  13. Not gonna happen by webnut77 · · Score: 1
    From TFA:

    Perhaps what we need is a fourth branch of government, smallish and economical, ...

    No branch of our government will remain smallish nor economical!

    1. Re:Not gonna happen by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      We already have a forth branch. It is small, and not only economical, it actually generates its own revenue, and not through confiscatory taxation. It is the Federal Reserve. It's "jurors" are appointment by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Too bad they only get to vote on interest rates.

    2. Re:Not gonna happen by djlowe · · Score: 1

      We already have a forth branch. It is small, and not only economical, it actually generates its own revenue, and not through confiscatory taxation. It is the Federal Reserve.

      Too bad they only get to vote on interest rates.

      Tell me you're joking? The Federal Reserve only generates money in the sense that it earns interest on money that it creates from nothing and then loans out.

      Here's a link to a post that sums it up nicely: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message592721/pg1

      You can't actually get this from the Federal Reserve's Web site any longer, although years ago there was a section that dealt with fiat money and the economy which made it clear that the Federal Reserve made money from nothing. I haven't looked, but you might find it on the Wayback Machine.

      Regards,

      dj

  14. Why would the lobbyists want that to happen? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    Your representatives are all bought and paid for, it ain't going to happen.

     

    --
    Deleted
  15. We already have a fourth branch of government by roccomaglio · · Score: 2

    The press is the fourth branch of government and it is doing a horrible job. People are busy and expect the press to research and appraise things fairly, instead we receive sensational stories or someones biased opinion. Half the time we get side tracked on discussing the wrong issues. The press as it is has failed and I hope that it is replaced with something that better informs the populace.

    1. Re:We already have a fourth branch of government by webnut77 · · Score: 1

      The press is the fourth branch of government and it is doing a horrible job.

      The press is just a marketing tool. Whether you're left, center, right, liberal, or conservative you just tune in to CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, etc. to hear what you want to hear. Kinda like what was said here

    2. Re:We already have a fourth branch of government by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know what the press does? It creates content that sells. If the public at large will only read which senator slept with which secretary, then those are the stories we will get.

      The press fails us because we fail ourselves. For the same reason that in a democracy, we get the government we deserve, in a capitalist economy, we get the press we deserve.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    3. Re:We already have a fourth branch of government by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      The press is the fourth branch of government and it is doing a horrible job.

      The press is just a marketing tool.

      Yes, hence the part about doing a terrible job. How about a state-owned media operator like the BBC? Aunty Beeb may not be perfect but a news outlet with neutrality as part of its mandate sounds like a good idea, at least on paper.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    4. Re:We already have a fourth branch of government by JimFive · · Score: 1

      The press is the fourth branch of government

      I hate this bromide. The press is not a branch of government. The press has no duty, obligation, or accountability in regard to informing the populace about reality. The government has no obligation to allow members of the press into its procedures except insofar as they allow any member of the citizenry in. If you want an ombudsman to investigate the government then advocate for that, but don't pretend that the press can or will do it. </rant>
      --
      JimFive

      --
      Please stop using the word theory when you mean hypothesis.
    5. Re:We already have a fourth branch of government by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      It wasn't long ago that the news was a lot better than it is today. Television news used to be a money loser for tv channels. However, it was something they did to fulfill the "for the public good" part of the contract that gave them public airwaves.

      Dan Rather once said that he saw the news taking a downturn after 60 minutes showed TV executives that news could make money. It was like every TV executive in the nation sat up and thought "Hey... we can still pretend to be good for the public and make more money at the same time!".

      There's a lot more to it than that of course (concentration of media ownership into the hands of a few mega corporations, regulation changes, etc..), but the news used to be a lot better than it is today.

  16. ElectNext by pjungwirth · · Score: 1

    This plan sounds a lot like what we're trying to accomplish at ElectNext.com, although we don't want to be a fourth branch of government. We are building a database of candidate profiles so we can match voters to the candidates who would best represent them. We also let people debate the issues in a community-moderated forum like StackOverflow or Quora. We're just getting started, so I'd love whatever feedback people have to offer.

    1. Re:ElectNext by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, but how is organizing the candidates' professed stands going to help? Whatever they say during the campaign, it's what they DO when elected that is of most concern. Indexing their lies seems to be helping them fool us... ???

      How about recording our politicians' votes, positions elucidated in speeches/appearances/debates, and then let's see how their re-eleciton campaigns go. Maybe even a pork-o-meter to measure their ROI.

      And I'm not very hopeful about that, either. Those sites already exist. Who reads them?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    2. Re:ElectNext by pjungwirth · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, but how is organizing the candidates' professed stands going to help?

      Thanks for your feedback! Actually we get data from a lot of sources, not just candidates' own statements. One source is interest group ratings, which is an imperfect but still decent proxy for voting record. We are also in the midst of developing a crowd-sourced component where people can leave citations that shed light on a candidate's real position. Finally, we are doing research into predicting candidate positions based on donations. There is research out there showing a correlation between donors and voting behavior, so there is a good theoretical basis to make that work. We hope that all these data sources will act as a check on candidates' professed views.

      Those sites already exist. Who reads them?

      There are sites out there that catalog candidate votes, but none of them feed that data into a dating-style matching algorithm. Part of why no one reads them is that it would take forever to learn anything. It's like reading the phone book. Our approach is to let you say what you believe, and then we apply all that candidate data to infer how compatible you'd be.

      Of course we can't be a panacea for all democracy's woes, but I do hope our project will let people vote, volunteer, and donate in a more targeted way. If we succeed, we could improve people's optimism about their vote and increase candidate accountability. Especially for state and local elections, it doesn't take much to sway an outcome.

  17. Already exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe me, it already exists. But perhaps that's the point of the article.

    To those reading THIS sentence, do you belong to the Legislative, Executive, or Judicial branches of Government? If no, congratulations! You are in the fourth branch of Government called the electorate.

    And yes, we do have power and occasionally wield it from time to time. Sadly it requires massive amounts of electorate numbers to offset the power that has been relinquished to the other branches, if our branch wants change the other branches aren't providing. At dire times, the extreme length that this branch sometimes has to resort to, is something called REVOLUTION.

  18. Maybe it just wasn't funny? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    "Today, thanks to the Internet, we can summon the collective intelligence of millions. "
    Just go and read the comments on the story and the average CNN story to see just how little intelligence that is.
    Some times if you add in enough loud dumb it will over whelm the smart.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:Maybe it just wasn't funny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must be a typo - should have been:

      the collective ignorance of millions

  19. Actually two more braches are needed by Dainsanefh · · Score: 1

    -The Politburo
    -The Civilian National Security Force that has nuclear capabilities

    --
    Twitter: @dainsanefh
  20. Specialists by sjbe · · Score: 1

    How can a democracy function effectively when the government is more complex than the average voter can understand?

    You could ask the same thing about science or business. How can science function when the average person does not understand organic chemistry? How can a business function when most people know little about corporate accounting. The answer is that they don't have to. We elect or appoint specialists to manage those functions but retain the right to remove them from office. Any reasonably large organization is more complicated than a single person can fully comprehend but that doesn't mean they can't work.

    Besides, the US at least is not and never has been a democracy. Properly speaking it is a republic.

    1. Re:Specialists by Intropy · · Score: 1

      The average person does not participate in a given business or research program. The average voter does participate in a democracy.

    2. Re:Specialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Properly speaking the US a representative democracy AND a federal republic -- direct democracy is not the only form of democracy and "democracy" and "republic" are not mutually exclusive.

    3. Re:Specialists by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      I don't think your parent post is suggesting we should be able to understand the system as a whole, so as voters, we can make demand necessary changes to make it work for us. Not that we have to understand the internal functioning of each individual node.

    4. Re:Specialists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could ask the same thing about science or business. How can science function when the average person does not understand organic chemistry? How can a business function when most people know little about corporate accounting.

      When was the vote on whether Gravity should be considered a law?

      Your analogy is a non-sequitur, science is a logical process, government is a consensus building instrument that requires everyone to agree that it is doing what it is supposed to.* Business is a terrible example as well since businesses are authoritarian dictatorships and are every bit as inefficient and masturbatory as government without similar general control over it.

      * (If you want to argue that point, don't bother. Government only governs with the consent of the governed; otherwise you get mass unrest, civil disobedience and open rebellion and rioting)

  21. Scott Adams' views on government by Scareduck · · Score: 0

    are remarkably puerile and shallow, which is surprising for someone who shows such a great comprehension of the pathologies that exist in heavily bureaucratic corporations.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

  22. Why is There Such a Conceptual Disconnect? by doclight · · Score: 1

    I agree with Adams to an extent. Why is there such a huge conceptual disconnect between The Constitution, and technology? Super PACs, the repeal of Glass-Steagel, Countrywide's contribution to the financial meltdown, Ted Stevens, etc... are all evidence that there are very real problems with our political system. I don't think technology is a silver bullet, but our political system is right out of the 1700's (with duct tape and bubble gum here and there). Why is travel necessary for campaigning? Why isn't there a group verifying what politicians have done/voted on as well as facts underlying their arguments?

    1. Re:Why is There Such a Conceptual Disconnect? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      The US political system is based on an understanding of human nature, and that hasn't changed since 1700 (either CE or BCE) nor is it likely to change in the future. The quality of the Constitution is show by the fact that the country has held together for 185 years since the last founder (Monroe) was President, during which time there have been no more than 5 honorable Presidents.

      If things keep going as they are now, we'll have seen the last of freedom in the US before 6 years go by.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  23. I have a better idea by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Give the states parliamentary control over all three branches.

    -If 3/4 of a state legislature issues a vote of no confidence in its congressional delegation, they're all removed and a new election is called.
    -If 2/3 of the states issue one within 2 years, the entire Congress is disbanded and an emergency national election is called.
    -If 2/3 of the states issue one for the Supreme Court or Presidency, either the entire SCOTUS or the entire appointed/elected executive branch are removed.
    -If a simple majority issue resolutions declaring null and void any federal law, executive order or SCOTUS precedent, it is removed.

    1. Re:I have a better idea by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      Or how about giving the states back power as initially intended and keeping the central government around for social programs, diplomacy, the post office, upholding constitutional rights, and settling disputes among states. The only reason we have such a centrally focused government now is due to wars, domestic and foreign.

      The way we're set up now, no progress can be made due to our centralized government and corruption. I'm sure we'd be seeing a major redistribution of the population right now if the government was primarily state run, as it's a lot easier to vote for what you want by moving to areas with other like minded individuals.

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
    2. Re:I have a better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If a simple majority issue resolutions declaring null and void any federal law, executive order or SCOTUS precedent, it is removed."

      Good job. You have utterly nullified any reason to even have a SCOTUS in the first place. /Clap.

    3. Re:I have a better idea by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Make it harder to pass a law than nullify one. Right now, it is trivial to pass a new law, but nearly impossible to revoke a poorly conceived one. What ends up happening is that we try to fix a bad law, where there is no fix.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:I have a better idea by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Or maybe just returning to having Senate seats being appointed by State legislatures. Seams to get at the root cause much faster.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  24. Disputation Arenas by ideonexus · · Score: 1

    I'm a Dilbert fan without being an Adams fan, but I like some of what he's written in this opinion piece, which is essentially about creating a more informed and more engaged voting public. What I read into this is that we already have a fourth branch of government, it's the American people, and government should make it easier for them to play a part into it. I think that's admirable.

    At one point in the essay, Adams talks about an online forum where people can debate ideas and learn about issues. It reminded me of Dr. David Brin's Disputation Arenas, where people can publicly debate an issue in a moderated forum, maybe have referees to flag logical fallacies or off-topic statements, figure out what everyone can agree on, set those aspects aside and figure out where the ideal mean lies for us as a people.

    --
    i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
    1. Re:Disputation Arenas by ideonexus · · Score: 1

      I couldn't find it at the time I wrote this post, but a decade ago I stumbled upon an essay by Martin Carcasson that really blew my mind in how sophisticated it was in tackling the issue of of having informed debate in America. I couldn't find the original essay, but I did find is now a Professor at Colorado State and has continued writing articles on the subject. I only glanced through a few of them, but his writing continues to be very insightful. I've downloaded the essays to read later. Really advanced and insightful stuff.

      --
      i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
  25. Re:Much Better idea by Trilkin · · Score: 1

    The fact you actually believe it'll work when there are several good (both extinct and extant) examples on why it doesn't makes me think this is actually a troll post.

    --
    Nobody cares what the CAPTCHA for your post was.
  26. Government is too complex? by j_f_chamblee · · Score: 1

    I am at all not convinced by arguments that the problem with the current government of the United States is that it is too complex. During the late 18th century, when the U.S. Constitution was written, debated, signed and ratified, even the most optimistic views of Colonial literacy rates held them at a point 10-15% below current rates. In addition the people who founded the current government were among some of the most distinguished and learned people of the era. Many Congressional delegates were well read in both British Common Law and in old world continental classics -- which they could read in Greek an Latin. So, to use a modern analogy, it would be as if Richard Feynman had participated in the drafting of the Constitution.

    The system of checks and balances that operates under the current U.S. system is a commonplace today, but so is the idea that light is both a particle and a wave, inasmuch as both are basic elements of secondary education. While the full math behind quantum theory is not taught, many of the concepts are -- and with general success. So let's please move past this idea that government is too complex and return to the crux of the problem.

    The crux of the problem is two-fold:

    1) That there are some forms of social organization that our framers did not foresee, both inside and outside of government. It is up to to those of us living today to deal with these directly and it is up to us to determine what is best. Throwback arguments by either the right or the left merely give comfort to hypocritical opportunists who are willing to clothe themselves in a mythic past to conceal the pursuit of their own selfish ends.

    2) Most people are too fond of willful ignorance, wishful thinking, and daydreaming to take on the responsibility associated with (1).

    --
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
    1. Re:Government is too complex? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      I tend to argue that there's a different crux of the problem:

      There's a big pile of money that government can use. Government needs to do stuff, and whenever it does stuff, it takes money off of the pile to hire people to do it, or sometimes just gives cash to some of its citizens and businesses. But that means it needs to put money back on the pile, and the only way it has to put money on the pile is to demand (using force if necessary) that people chip in some amount of dough.

      1. Everyone wants their contribution to the pile of cash to be as small as possible, so they get more money.
      2. Everyone wants as much of the pile of cash as possible to go to them, so they get more money.

      You'll notice that if everybody gets what they want, the pile of cash quickly runs out. So in practice, only some people will get what they want. However, the decision about who gets what they want and who doesn't is not necessarily based on any good reason.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  27. Re:Better idea, not by codex24 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Legally-enforced prohibition never solved anything. Look what it has done for alcohol, narcotics, and traitors. They've been reduced, but haven't gone away. If you want to eliminate something then you need to destroy its habitat, and the natural habitat of the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex predator is the unchecked flow of money that drives the current political process. As Scott alludes, Campaign Finance Reform (http://www.publicampaign.org/) is the single most important political issue in this country for any party, persuasion, or constituency. Our current system is built on the premise that money is equivalent to "speech", and that since speech cannot be restricted (1st Amendment), neither can financial support of campaigns. This is no more true than the idea that a corporation is a "person". Unlike money, speech is effective for its quality, not its quantity.

  28. Taiwan's Five Branches by BlackSupra · · Score: 1

    In Taiwan they have the Control Yuan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Yuan - one of the five branches of the Republic of China government in Taipei. It is an investigatory agency that monitors the other branches of government. It may be compared to the Court of Auditors of the European Union, the Government Accountability Office of the United States, a political ombudsman, or a standing commission for administrative inquiry.

  29. Fastest/Easiest way to start seeing progress... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its nothing new, but limit all bills to a maximum of 10 pages, and enforce that they must only cover one single topic or section of the law at a time.

    This will eliminate massive bills that no one has time, or wants to read (including the politicians that vote on them). It will also eliminate the vast majority of bills that have unrelated earmarks or clauses that alter unrelated areas of the law, which from what I can see is how the vast majority of lobbyists get their way for their "clients". Then if a single clause amendment needs to be put through it would literally be an entire bill (1 page or less) dedicated to that one clause. If its a corrupt clause or has hugely negative side effects the people will know exactly who voted on it so they can be hung out to dry at the next election.

    It should also serve to focus the politicians and prevent all the earmarks/backscratching that goes into bills just to get a few additional votes.

    1. Re:Fastest/Easiest way to start seeing progress... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But but but... If you do that, I'll never have my Bridge to Nowhere! Alaska's future depends on it! MY ISLAND depends on it!

    2. Re:Fastest/Easiest way to start seeing progress... by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      The President can already do this.

      All he has to do is adopt a policy of personally reading each bill before signing it. Any bill he can't read in the 2 week deadline will as a matter of policy be vetoed. To make this policy even better, also automatically veto any bill which has exemptions for any branch of the government.

      I could see the speech now: "It is always a good idea to read contracts before you sign them. It is even more important to read laws. The Constitution has a hard deadline of 2 weeks for me to read them and sign them, so Congress needs to keep them simple so I can meet this deadline. Also, some laws that have been passed in past have included exemptions for Congress, the Executive branch, or other branches of government. Any exemption is automatic grounds for veto."

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  30. Try voting in Ohio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try voting in Ohio. Today on Issue 1, it didn't matter if you voted for or against it, you voted to repeal Section 6 amendments 19 and 22 of the Ohio constitution (it didn't list what they were)

    http://www.co.greene.oh.us/BOE/forms/2011/Nov_11_State_Issues.pdf

    As much as I hate to say it, money that buys biased media pieces will make it easier for people to vote. The press isn't doing their job to be objective in covering the boring stuff and finding corruption and power grabs in government.

  31. Already Exists by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    Scott Adams is proposing a "Fact Checking" 4th branch, but this already exists. Groups like Politifact are already evaluating politicians statements and rating them according to their veracity. For example, here is their check of Rick Perry claiming that everyone would get a tax cut under his plan: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/nov/07/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-under-his-tax-plan-everyone-will-b/

    They also equally hit both sides of the aisle. Here they are disproving Obama saying that he's completed 60% of his campaign promises: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/01/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-60-percent-his-promises-are-done/

    The two problems with groups like Politifact are that 1) their response isn't immediate and 2) relatively few people will read their responses. In the case of the former, A politician will say something at a rally or on TV and they will check into it and get their response up a day later. It's the nature of fact-checking, but by then the soundbite has sunk in. It doesn't matter if "Everyone gets a tax cut" is true or not because thousands heard it. Likely, if at a rally, thousands heard it over and over said in a sincere sounding voice. The "that's just not true" delayed response is weaker. (If it was just as strong, then Snopes would have made urban legend e-mails a thing of the past.)

    As for the latter, I don't know the readership of Politifact offhand, but I'm sure it is under the amount of people who hear the candidates speak. Thus, even if you *do* get the real story later, you are in the minority. Most folks have continued on their way thinking "Everyone gets a tax cut" must be true because their candidate said so. (Blindly accepting a candidate's word because they are in "your party" is a completely different problem, of course. No amount of fact-checking will cure this.)

    That said, making them part of the government would only open the door for their fact checked reports to be manipulated by special interests or political bosses. "We can't release that report saying that everyone doesn't get tax cuts. The party chairman said it was true and we can't embarrass him like that. Politifact might not make a big impact, but at least it is outside of the control* of the political parties.

    * Ok, everything can be controlled if you try hard enough, but it would be harder to control Politifact now than it would be if it was a government agency.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  32. Scott Adams can eat a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but despairs on his own blog about reader's comments on the article."

    Scott Adams is a troll extraordinaire. His MO consists of posting some horrible, awful opinion on his blog, waiting for the people calling him on it to roll in, and then claiming that they were all just too stupid to understand the logic of a genius like him. He also enjoys sockpuppetry, resorting to using bogus accounts to talk about what an awesome person Scott Adams is. Oh, he's not a big fan of women, either, equating them to children.

  33. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  34. I've seen it too by Quila · · Score: 1

    Sort of. It's called factcheck.org, and it has a liberal bias. Whoever the "professional abritrators" are will determine which facts are used and how the claims are interpreted to be true or false.

    1. Re:I've seen it too by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      It's called factcheck.org, and it has a liberal bias.

      You mean, like reality? Works for me.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    2. Re:I've seen it too by icebrain · · Score: 1

      Compile error: Statement without citation
      Compile error: Statement provided without evidence
      Compile error: Undefined term "liberal"
      Compile error: Attribute "bias" is not a property of class "reality"

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    3. Re:I've seen it too by swalve · · Score: 1

      Facts don't have a bias.

    4. Re:I've seen it too by Quila · · Score: 1

      Which facts are presented, and how they are presented, do.

  35. Re:And nothing about rape in it? by LoLobey · · Score: 2

    You're an idiot. In no frame of reference does Scott ever allude to such a thing. I'm sure you're referring to the backlash from his Pegs and Holes article where various parties chose to misconstrue what he said in pursuit of they're own agenda. You're just another jerk trying to use an ad hominem attack instead of presenting a valid argument.

    --
    We have nothing to fear but fear itself! And Spiders!
  36. Re:Scott Adams proposes 'GAO' by Jeng · · Score: 1

    Um ok, so Scott Adams is proposing the U.S. Government Accountability Office?

    http://www.gao.gov/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. Branches of government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How independent really are the branches of government anyways? How much power checking have we actually seen from one branch over another?

    Some examples:
    National security letters allow warrantless taps,
    War in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya undeclared by Congress
    Fed board members appointed by president

  39. Satire vs reasoning by Lexx+Greatrex · · Score: 1

    Perhaps what we need is a fourth branch of government, smallish and economical, operating independently, with a mission to build and maintain a friendly user interface for citizens to manage their government. Apple could have pulled that off in its glory years, when Steve Jobs was doing all the work and his 60,000 employees filled their time spreading spiteful anecdotes about him.

    I have some questions to help me decide if Scott is coining a newer and darker style of satire or succumbing to some form of dissonance: You suggest creating a new branch of government with the sole purpose of educating voters. I appreciate the satire in your article, but do you really think that giving the government more scope and authority will resolve the misgivings people have about their government? If yes, then do you think an officially sanctioned and funded government media wing will lead to selfless and unbiased expression of the facts to the voting public? If yes then do you think that transparent, open and unbiased government communications will continue in perpetuity; even if such discourse contradicts the ideologies, reasoning and actions of the government itself? If yes then why do you suggest that such a government PR agency, guided only by the greater good of the public to provide transparent, open and unbiased knowledge to the voting public need engage in glitzy Apple-style marketing? Surely this egalitarian, unmandated house of government would be more akin to national public radio rather than an iTuneseque media engine?

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. Emerson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is not with the government or corporations. The problem is with the citizens and the consumers. It is not the goal or purpose of either a government or business entity to bolster citizens or consumers. That repsonsibility has, and will always, fall upon the individual. Self reliance is not only a good thing; but collectivley, it is the only thing that has a chance at saving this county.

  42. Misinformation and FUD by Machtyn · · Score: 1

    It really is disheartening. The Fair & Balanced channel is anything but. The others news outlets are biased left to very far left.

    Candidates such as Mitt Romney, who enjoy a popularity among a core group, keep getting misrepresented by those in his same party (hint, Romney is Conservative, has a conservative record, has always voted and signed bills with conservatism in mind, his statements have always been conservative - despite quotes taken out-of-context and misrepresented. I will grant he is right of center and not fanatically right - but when you've got 2008 Rush Limbaugh saying he has all 3 legs of conservatism and 2011 Rush Limbaugh saying "He's not conservative" and it isn't Romney that has changed in 3 years... what have you got?)

    Herman Cain, if falsely accused, will suffer irreparable damage to his character during the campaign season because of it and it shows the Liberal hypocrisy between their treatment of Cain and Clinton. If he is guilty, the accusers are becoming victims again as the Conservative bloviators show their hypocrisy between their treatment of Clinton and Cain.

    I could go on, but I've said my peace.

    1. Re:Misinformation and FUD by zill · · Score: 1

      Herman Cain, if falsely accused, will suffer irreparable damage to his character during the campaign season because of it and it shows the Liberal hypocrisy between their treatment of Cain and Clinton. If he is guilty, the accusers are becoming victims again as the Conservative bloviators show their hypocrisy between their treatment of Clinton and Cain.

      Are you seriously comparing a man with access to the nuclear button committing perjury to an average joe harassing co-workers? It's not even apples and oranges. One could result in the destruction of an entire nation and the other one will result in a devoice in the worst case.

      I couldn't care less who Clinton and Cain may or may not fucked. That's a problem between them and their wifes.

  43. we have one. by swschrad · · Score: 1

    it's called the free press.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:we have one. by CityZen · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the free press is working for the almighty dollar, and therefore isn't quite "free".
      There's also such a cacophony of voices that trying to find signal in all the noise is quite a challenge.

      I'd like to think that appropriate application of computer science can help solve this problem.
      Something like a truly well-moderated discussion forum (the likes of which I have not yet seen).

  44. The Citizens Are The Fourth Branch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Citizens of the U.S. should have some kind of a secure, authenticated electronic interface (using SSN) that allows us to collectively eject public officials from office whenever deemed appropriate. Undoubtedly, Bush would've been out in a hurry if we'd had this in the 00's. The technology is here. The time has come.

  45. Re:And nothing about rape in it? by bareman · · Score: 1

    "You're an idiot"

    "You're just another jerk trying to use an ad hominem attack instead of presenting a valid argument."

    I'm confused. Are you arguing in favor of or in opposition to ad hominem attack???

    And, is it you Scotty? Since we know Scott's not at all averse to using pseudonyms to attack his critics:

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/demotion-dilbert-continues-no-comic-relief-creator-172503679.html

  46. How about the other Scott Adams? by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

    I want to hear from the Scott Adams that made those cool text adventure games back in the day? Maybe he has some good ideas.

    --
    "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
  47. Post to undo incorrect mod by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

    n/t

  48. Checks and Balances by Phoenix666 · · Score: 1

    The unlimited power of corporations and the ultra-wealthy to game the system has brought everything to the verge of collapse. If you really want to revive the country you have to break their stranglehold on wealth and power.

    Corporations must lose their status as "artificial persons," which gives them all of the rights of natural persons with none of the responsibilities. The ultra-wealthy must not be entrenched aristocracies nor 100% peopled by sociopaths and they cannot be insulated or excused from their own misdeeds, shortcomings, failures, and crimes. If you crash the economy you need to instantly lose everything you have and face prison for the rest of your life, if not a firing squad.

    The next step after that is to fire every single person in our current government from the President, Congress, and SCOTUS down to the state houses and the utterly corrupt city councilmembers. We hold a constitutional convention, and apply the empirical data from the past 200+ years of what works and what doesn't to design a better document that will carry us through the next 200 years. National transportation infrastructure and defense work. Professional politicians don't. Supporting entrepreneurship and innovation work. Locking in the status quo doesn't. Companies that produce real value work. Goldman Sachs and its ilk don't.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  49. What about the Media by zippy590 · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that people are not informed because the media tend to cover politics like they are a sporting event. " Gee Bret, Rommeny would have done much better in he Iowa straw poll if he ran further right on the tax issue and then cut back up the centre on abortion rights." -- All we get are poll results, tactics and points spreads. Great if your making book on the election in Vegas, but it doesn't lead to an informed electorate.

  50. Re:Much Better idea by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

    The fact you actually believe it'll work when there are several good (both extinct and extant) examples on why it doesn't makes me think this is actually a troll post.

    fucktarded USians

    This wasn't a giveaway?

    --
    If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
  51. Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Constitutional amendment:

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of business, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

  52. Increase the Size of the House of Representatives by dbkluck · · Score: 1

    There's no constitutional requirement that the House be limited to 435 members, and in fact it was historically increased after each census until 1920 or so. As a result of the fixed number of Reps, the ratio of people to representatives has exploded from what the framers originally intended (around 40 or 50k to one) to an average of 700k to one, with disproportionate representation given to people who live in states with less than 1/435 of the total US population because of the requirement that every state have at least one. 435 is a comparatively small number of targets for lobbyists and special interests, and it allows incumbents to become too easily entrenched. With modern technology like televised (and video recorded) debates and committee hearings, remote voting, etc., coupled with a major overhaul of the House rules, it seems like it should be possible to manage a House with a thousand or 1500 members, maybe more. Reduce the influence of special interest money by reducing the influence of individual representatives, making it no longer cost effective to buy one off. At the same time, you increase the power of the general populace: since a representative will be less attractive to special interests, he'll have focus more on pleasing his constituency to maintain his job--a constituency which will then have easier access to his time and attention. This is how the system was supposed to work in the first place, the artificial cap on representatives has just knocked it out of whack.

  53. Re:And nothing about rape in it? by LoLobey · · Score: 1

    oooo and look, I provided a valid argument in between there. (not an argument so much as evidence to the contrary). You're point about the sock puppet incident is valid however, although I think it was naivete on Scott's part as opposed to anything particularly nefarious. bocyomd

    --
    We have nothing to fear but fear itself! And Spiders!
  54. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  55. Adams is dead on in the direction he is heading. by spads · · Score: 1

    I had thought that the way to reclaim the elections for the people was to (a) remove private funding of campaigns and (b) put all the candidates' platforms on the internet. The part I hadn't seen yet was how to narrow the field enough to make this practical, which, of course, he hit upon with removing private funding of candidates ABOVE 10% popularity. I think this idea is 90%+ implementable as is.

    The corporations will still have some control over who makes it to the 10% level, but it should become a much greater money sink to do so, substantially reducing their rate of return.

    --
    Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
  56. I didn't RTFA, but... by slasho81 · · Score: 1

    branch of government ... smallish and economical, operating independently

    Sigh...

  57. Reality doesn't have selection bias by Quila · · Score: 1

    Plus it doesn't do its torturous best to explain away irregularities in the statements of liberal politicians (candidate Obama's stance on gun rights for example), while requiring strict third-party verifiable truth in conservatives.

  58. Tools for retards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been saying the same thing about computers for years. Why do they have to keep getting more complicated? If I can't understand how it works, I don't want to use it.

  59. The old system is fine, er wait... by DudeFromMars · · Score: 1

    Well, it would be fine if we actually followed it.
    Our government was designed to be limited, and citizen juries are designed to be a check and balance against tyrannical laws.

    The career politicians have slipped free from the enumerated powers and the 10th amendment.
    No laws were changed, they just found the system to limiting, so reinterpreted it.
    Citizen juries are told they cannot judge laws -- and this is the sole purpose of citizen juries - consent of the governed.

    We have a sweet little system, too bad the insiders have stolen it from us.
    There are no public servants - we are all servants to the public sector.
    It was not supposed to be like this...

  60. Adams is clueless by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    He's pretty good at pointing out flaws, but he's incapable of building a coherent system: he can't see his own errors. His politics generally are off base.

    Out of the many paragraphs in TFA, I found only two sentences that weren't substantially flawed:

    • ___Imagine being able to go to one website to see the best arguments for and against every issue, with links to support or refute every factual claim.
    • ___If you think my ideas for fixing the republic are ridiculous and impractical, you're probably right.

    Two things are required to temporarily fix the US gov't: cut the size by 80% and remove the tyrant who is currently president.

    Long term, the Constitution needs to be rejiggered to make it much harder for the gov't to grow, and the populace needs to be better educated.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  61. A Free Press by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice, Scott. That was the so-called "Fifth Estate". Funny how that turned out, huh?

  62. Perhaps you could... by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

    ...if people felt that voting matters. There are two main problems I see with the current style of voting:
    1. "My vote is one in a few million"
    2. Each option is a party with which one may agree with some points, but disagree with other points. So whichever party you vote for does not represent what you want to vote for.

    The way I see it, 2 is the main reason people see little point to voting. I would like to see a different way of handling votes. It looks more complex, but it allows people to be as general or specific as they like... and that should do away with 2.

    Voting at three stages:
    1. General party vote (what we have now, in democratic countries)
    2. Portfolio vote (ie. an exception to the General party vote)
    3. Topic vote (ie. Screw the parties I voted for, for this specific vote this is the option I want. Requires internet voting to work, so not feasible now.)

    Only option 1 would be mandatory (voting is mandatory in some countries).

    Also, voting for a party should not help determine how many members a party should get in parliament, but should specify which party gets to allocate your vote. (Different things.)

    So, if you vote for party A in the general vote then, generally, party A gets to allocate your vote as they choose.
    Unless the topic of the vote falls into a specific portfolio and you voted for party B in that portfolio, then party B gets to allocate your vote.
    Unless you specify the exact option in a vote, then you yourself take control of your vote.

  63. Many changes needed, but most needed is the will by CityZen · · Score: 1

    Many things have been pointed out that would really help; however, the current major stakeholders have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.

    It's actually quite impressive how many of these problems have been solved, but we can't seem to get the solutions into use. This applies not only at the federal government level, but in fact at nearly every level of activity of mankind. You name it, and someone has probably already found a better way to do it, and yet most people will keep on doing it the hard way.

    As far as US government, various ideas stand out:
    - Require politicians to read the bills before they can vote on them.
    - Require nearly complete transparency in government (via the Internet), showing every meeting and every dollar spent.
    - Require every political ad to include a link to indicate the detailed sources of funding for the ad.
    - Don't indicate any party affiliations on ballots, nor allow any "straight ticket" votes.
    - Use a revision control system on the actual laws, with HTML links to relevant court decisions, and a wiki-type entry for each
        to allow controlled discussion on the actual fallout of each law.

    I'd really like to see some way to keep stupidity out of politics, but that's really quite a difficult challenge.
    Either the ideas don't scale or generalize well, or else there's some way to co-opt them by the underhanded.
    But I'm sure there are some people who've put much more thought into this than I have.

  64. We the people petition by AlanBDee · · Score: 1

    I setup a petition at "We the People" to setup a similar system. Sign it if you agree! http://wh.gov/bKl

  65. Scott Adams was pro-rape, remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Call me crazy, but I'm not interested in political ideas coming from a guy who supports rape.

  66. Guillotine Petition Branch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wherein anyone can petition for the beheading of anyone else. If 60% of the population agree, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

  67. Constitutional right by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Rather than internet access, I'd have thought the right to a decent education, housing, food and employment would have priority. But that's probably a bit socialist for most Americans.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  68. Step 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After he made this suggestion, did he create dozens of fake accounts to congratulate Scott Adams on being a certified genius with excellent ideas?

  69. We have too much government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So lets add some more to fix it.
          Sounds like a Dilbert situation.

          Having a goto site to present all sides of the issues is a great idea,
                  but it should be run by citizens, not the govt.

  70. Re:Much Better idea by Trilkin · · Score: 2

    Poe's Law says no=(

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    Nobody cares what the CAPTCHA for your post was.