Ask Slashdot: Inexpensive Anti-Theft Vehicle Tracking System?

New submitter Chuckles08 writes "I'm about to complete the purchase of an electric scooter that is worth over $5,000. Since I'll be parking it on a college campus, it will be vulnerable to theft. I'd like to install some kind of tracking device on it but the solutions I've seen so far seem quite expensive. Are there any reasonably priced and effective solutions out there? Ideally, I'd like to be informed by text message if my scooter moves without my knowing. I'd like to then track the scooter's movements." And anything small enough to work for a scooter might be very useful for car owners, too.

Comments

Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

a "Made in the USA" sticker.

Re:Easy!

[ScrewMaster]

a "Made in the USA" sticker.

Why would you say that?

Re:Easy!

[jhoegl]

Because it used to be that people complained about the quality of products made in the USA.

The irony is, we cant do that anymore.

Re:Easy!

[Surt]

Bleah. Most depressing post of the week to you sir.
Sadly, also informative.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it used to be that people complained about the quality of products made in the USA.

The irony is, we cant do that anymore.

Or maybe it has more to do with imported brands, especially European, having more prestige than American - regardless of any differences in quality real or perceived?

Re:Easy!

[Lumpy]

used to be? I still will not touch a Piece of Crap american made car. Although that in of it's self is not real. ford,GM and Chrysler cars are made in Canada and assembled in mexico. Part assemblies happen in the us from china made parts.

Honda and Hundai actually are more of a "made in the USA" car than GM or Ford is. Plus they dont do stupid crap like GM.. route the MAIN wire harness out of the cabin right where all spray from the tire will hit so it will corrode out within 5 years. (Grand am 2000-2009, Buick Rondevus, Grand Prix) Or use crap gaskets from china and dexcool crap that eat each other and get water in the oil. (1998-2007 all Gm cars that had the 3400 engine)

Both of the above MAJOR manufacturing/engineering flaws never had a recall.

Yet the 2007 Honda civic I have, I just was sent a letter from honda stating I have a lifetime warranty on my engine for free replacement because some cars had engine blocks that may have a flaw, so to own up to it all honda civic sold from 2006-2007 have a unlimited mileage/ unlimite time warranty on them for engine block cracks or any failures due to this flaw. it will be replaced with a NEW engine.

This is why I will never touch a Piece of crap american car again. The companies refuse to own up to flaws and make things right. BMW, Audi, Honda, subaru, mazda and even KIA have done this in the past. Admit to a problem and make it right to everyone that bought their cars. GM and Ford tell you, "sucks to be you!"

So yes, American made typically means it's garbage.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Although that in of it's self is not real."

What language is that in?

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

You mention a legitimate problem with GM's 3400 engine, ignoring the oil sludge problem with Toyota's 3L V6, or the differential problems on the Titan. Perhaps it should be only Honda stands behind their products rather than a Foreign vs Domestic rant?

Also, a V6 in a front-wheel-drive car is asking for trouble. Your Civic doesn't have that problem.

On another note, it seems one has to judge based on the model, not the manufacturer. If I judged the manufactures based on my personal anecdotal evidence, it would be:
1) GM has nearly flawless trucks, but can't build a front-drive car worth driving
2) Ford builds awesome rear-wheel-drive big cars, aside from the plastic intake manifold on the 4.6L V8
3) Lexus IS250 is in the shop every other month for a recall.
4) Toyota tundra in the shop for transmission problems.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, there is one American auto brand that I would purchase from. I never thought I would say it, but Ford has come a very long way in the past several years. I know several people who love their Focus and one co-worker bought an Edge for his family. And from I can tell first hand, the build quality and interior are top notch for the basic package.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Both of the above MAJOR manufacturing/engineering flaws never had a recall.

Wrong. The Dexcool issue was, first, a SUPPLIER mistake and, second, was covered under a recall.

I've never even heard of the first one mentioned and, being that no wiring harness has ever exited into the wheel well of a car, cannot possibly be what you said it was.

Re:Easy!

[couchslug]

IAAM (I Am A Mechanic) and agree on cars. USians can do trucks, but that's different.

The Dexcool situation should be a scandal and it's more than one engine...

OTOH I've worked at a used car lot and even the most clueless dumbfucks have trouble killing Hondas unless they wreck them.

Re:Easy!

[HornWumpus]

You can't give away a french car.

Re:Easy!

[iamhassi]

woosh! It was a joke.

Probably because it use to be people wanted foreign cars, but according to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, out of the 10 most stolen cars in America, 5 were American brands: two Fords, one Chevy and two Dodges.

Re:Easy!

[currently_awake]

Those aren't design flaws, they're designed to fail so you have to buy parts/more cars. That's what happens when big money calls the shots. It's the reason America is spiraling down the toilet drain.

Re:Easy!

[Genda]

Its only depressing because we've allowed the banks and their countless minions to suck us dry and then convince us that we're beaten. Here are some simple facts:

The banks own nothing but paper. Paper they stole. They are thieves, plain and simple. Close the British monetary system that has enslaved the world. Inform the corporate leaders of the world their days of unbridled greed and dominion have passed. The people are taking back what is rightfully theirs, starting with their dignity, humanity and their civil right to be as and who they choose. No more Letting the heartless and the mindless call the day.

Money is an agreement. Its time to renegotiate the terms. Default on all the loans, remove the banks, negotiate the new terms of trade and debt to clean up the messes between us and our economic partners and issue our own currency as per our freakin Constitution. Gather the hyperabundance of lawyer and bankers together, put them on an isolated island with just enough food and water for about 1/4 of their number and let Darwinian selection sort out the rest. For a brief wonderful time early in our history, we had no British bank bleeding us, and our nation has never been wealthier, happier or more successful. Let us return the world to a state of sanity and let the bankers suck blood from on another.

Re:Easy!

[Gription]

English.

Re:Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope GM trucks still have problems. Transfer cast solenoids that fail regularly due to bad design and GM will not warranty it. Front wheel bearing problems on ALL their SUV's from 1998-2009.

I can go on and on. GM tells everyone to STFU and go sodomize themselves.

ford is just as bad.

Re:Easy!

[frenchbedroom]

Even easier : paint it pink and slap some My Little Pony stickers on it. Nobody will steal your ride.

Re:Easy!

[antdude]

I have seen American cars get stolen. :(

Re:Easy!

[ewanm89]

You could give them enough food and water for twice their number and darwin probably would still dwindle it out. Maybe you should reread the paragraph before and highlight the key word that will be most important to that environment.

Re:Easy!

[hgri89]

Back in the days where a 1GB usb memory stick was realy expencive a friend of a friend of mine coloured his 1gb flash drive bab y shit yellow, no body touched it then, (people kept stealing his memory sticks prior to this)

Re:Easy!

[mjwx]

OTOH I've worked at a used car lot and even the most clueless dumbfucks have trouble killing Hondas unless they wreck them.

However if (when) they do manage it, fixing a Honda Civic costs a fortune. Even maintenance is a bit on the expensive side compared to similar cars (Toyota Yaris or Corolla). However a maintained, well driven Civic will easily run for 500,000 K's

You're buying a Segway, aren't you?

[Anonymous Coward]

It comes with a built-in alarm system.

GPS Tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.gpsvision.de/index.php/produkte/gps-tracker-tk5000

but it's in german

Re:GPS Tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

This works great, although it has the potential to drain your battery if your vehicle sits for very long (assuming you hard wire the phone car charger to your battery).

Re:GPS Tracker

[Z00L00K]

The worst risk with a scooter is that someone will be stealing parts from it, not the whole vehicle. A fat lock and chain around a lamp post is preventing the thieves to walk away with it but it won't stop them from stripping it naked.

Re:GPS Tracker

[phixeus]

I was thinking the same thing until I considered how much juice a phone can go thru, maybe 1500 mah per day. But a motorcycle or car battery could have 20, 30, or a much higher amp hour rating, dozens to hundreds of times what a phone could use in a day. So even sitting and not being used, the battery would be able to keep the phone working for several days, if not several weeks, before it would ever deplete the battery enough that it wouldn't start. A lot of guys in the instamapper forums have had great success with this type of setup.

Re:GPS Tracker

[bjs555]

Couldn't you just power up the tracker once every 15 minutes or so for as long as it takes to report its position (maybe 30 seconds)? A CMOS 555 timer connected to a power transistor switch would draw only a few milliwatts when inactive.

Re:GPS Tracker

[phixeus]

That is how I understand it too. You can set the frequency of the GPS reporting anywhere between every 5 seconds all the way up to several hours between reportings. Which, as you imply, would greatly decrease the battery usage.

Simple

[CtownNighrider]

Automated turret

Re:Simple

[ScrewMaster]

Automated turret

A propane flamer mounted underneath. Anyone tries to steal the thing gets his feet burned off.

It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't find a cheaper way to cover the loss and there is no way to prevent it from being stolen for a reasonable amount of money. As it can be lifted into a truck, taken out and dismantled and any anti=theft system defeated before you can finish reading this response...

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[spire3661]

I tend to agree with this. I always laugh at people wasting time installing 'the club' on their steering wheel. It jsut screams "Im desperate and have no means to recover from losses."

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[ironjaw33]

I tend to agree with this. I always laugh at people wasting time installing 'the club' on their steering wheel. It jsut screams "Im desperate and have no means to recover from losses."

It's not that it's impossible to dismantle such anti-theft systems but that the anti-theft systems provide enough incentive for the thieves to move on and steal the low hanging fruit. Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm the thief, the one with the club. Just to prove a point, and to mess with the statistics.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

I use "The Club" as icing on the cake combined with a hidden switch that turns off the PATS RFID antenna [1] and another switch for the fuel pump. If a thief gets past that, that is what insurance is for. But, they are going to fight for what they steal.

I agree -- The Club can be defeated easily. But it forces a thief to have to deal with it, and time is their enemy

[1]: The reason I turn off the PATS antenna is that for more sophisticated thieves, it will throw them off the scent, because all attempts they try at key cloning will not work. Of course, if that gets bypassed, the fuel pump switch ensures they won't go far.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

The one with the club. It's easier to steal a car with a club than without, as it means the thief does not need to carry around a long pry bar to break the steering wheel lock, as the club will provide the necessary leverage once it has been cut apart with a small hacksaw blade.

From: http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/08/what-car-thieves-think-of-the-club/

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[icebike]

You won't find a cheaper way to cover the loss and there is no way to prevent it from being stolen for a reasonable amount of money. As it can be lifted into a truck, taken out and dismantled and any anti=theft system defeated before you can finish reading this response...

If you can track it on the truck that would be good enough.
Most thieves will not start tearing it down on site.

A cheap add on smartphone with a minimal dataplan and a free find-my-phone app or child tracking app would report its last position.
Permanently wired to the battery and hidden under a plastic part (seat) it would likely survive long enough to provide a location of the
chop shop it was taken too.

I rather suspect it is the casual thief might (as opposed to the professional) might never discover such an installation.

That and learning where campus security cameras are focused should be cheaper than theft insurance.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

I use "The Club" as icing on the cake combined with a hidden switch that turns off the PATS RFID antenna [1] and another switch for the fuel pump. If a thief gets past that, that is what insurance is for. But, they are going to fight for what they steal.

I agree -- The Club can be defeated easily. But it forces a thief to have to deal with it, and time is their enemy

[1]: The reason I turn off the PATS antenna is that for more sophisticated thieves, it will throw them off the scent, because all attempts they try at key cloning will not work. Of course, if that gets bypassed, the fuel pump switch ensures they won't go far.

Tow truck, shove into a cheap used metal shipping container, dismantle at your leisure - no tracking device will be able to get a signal through the steel walls.

Dump the stripped frame and body, buy it at the insurance auction, get the pink slip, and put the engine, transaxle, wheels, seats, etc. back in an sell it.

And yes, people DO do this. It's one reason insurance companies have begun crushing "strippers".

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

In this case, I'm more inclined to pessimism than usual about the utility of technological anti-theft systems.

A ~$5k electric scooter is a fairly atypical piece of kit. This isn't a generic "ISO standard bike for getting around campus" or "some massively popular compact car", either of which can disappear or turn into parts even in the hands of a complete n00b; but where getting GPS-tracked or otherwise running into an unexpected security system might discourage/catch a low end opportunistic operator.

If you are going to be stealing something as relatively unusual as a $5,000 light nerdmobile, you are either curious and joyriding(in which case the system will turn up within one charge-length of where it was stolen; but in god knows what condition, hope you have insurance), or because you have some definite plan in mind(most likely transporting the whole thing well away from the market in which it was stolen for use or resale, or breaking it up for the probably rather pricey battery and components). Anybody who tries to flip it on craigslist or something similarly low-rent is going to discover pretty quickly that the sheer oddity of the vehicle will make that difficult.

Because of the sheer inconvenience of having stuff stolen, I certainly wouldn't leave it less locked than the other bikes and stuff near it; but I'd be very much inclined to make any security investment beyond the basics in the form of insurance, rather than technology...

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[jtownatpunk.net]

I came here to say the same thing.

A tracking system is going to be spendy and probably useless. Do you really think the cops are going to make recovering your scooter a high priority? Do you really think you're going to go all Internet Tough Guy and break into someone's garage to get it back? (Remember, you just admitted to being a Scooter Guy so we all know that won't happen.)

Just insure it against theft. If it gets stolen, you should have the money for a replacement within a week. The deductible will be less than what you would have spent on your tracking system.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

For a drug addled crappy thief who's just looking to by some meth you're probably right. Any thief worth his salt can defeat the sadness that is the club in less than 10 seconds however. The idea of being more difficult to get than you're neighbor only works if it actually is more difficult to get rather than just appears to be at first glance.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[meerling]

It's possible to break the club in under 30 seconds (seen it done in under 10) using a relatively inexpensive item that will fit into oversize pockets, and has so many other legal uses you can buy it in various stores.

I'm not telling, but if you do a little research, I bet you can find out. Hint, make the lock tumblers cold and brittle.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm the thief, the one without the club. Because the other one might have a tracking system installed. ^^

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Richy_T]

Marriage?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[taskiss]

You won't need a data plan, just have it attach to every free wi-fi net it can and check a mail account for a message like "where are you?", and when it sees that, reply with gps coordinates.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[MagicM]

If you're going to do that, just leave the car and steal the club.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[j-beda]

Boy, that's a lot of work though. One would think that if people applied this amount of initiative and ingenuity into something legal they could make almost as much money a similar amount of effort and much less risk.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[halofan_sd]

insurance only pays the blue book value of the vehicle, look it up, your car is worth a lot less than you think. there's no way I can find a replacement for my car at the current blue book value.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[SuricouRaven]

Brittle enough to break? Hmm... well, butane will only get you down to zero. Cold, but not cold enough. Below that.... ah! Is it that freezing spray used for removing warts? The stuff that'll leave a perminant scar if you don't do it right? That'll get very, very cold.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[phrostie]

+2 funny

ROTFL

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[fluffy99]

It's possible to break the club in under 30 seconds (seen it done in under 10) using a relatively inexpensive item that will fit into oversize pockets, and has so many other legal uses you can buy it in various stores.

I'm not telling, but if you do a little research, I bet you can find out. Hint, make the lock tumblers cold and brittle.

No need to break the club itself. It's faster to just cut the steering wheel. Takes about 20 seconds with a hacksaw blade that fits nicely into your pocket. Versus a few minutes spraying freon into the club and swinging a hammer.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[fluffy99]

You won't need a data plan, just have it attach to every free wi-fi net it can and check a mail account for a message like "where are you?", and when it sees that, reply with gps coordinates.

I looked into the find-my-android type of apps for both ipod and android. They all depend on SMS texts for their communications and won't use wi-fi. If you phone is subscribed to some service that records the IP (ddns,org, or maybe a web server you own) that the IP info might be traceable.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[fluffy99]

insurance only pays the blue book value of the vehicle, look it up, your car is worth a lot less than you think. there's no way I can find a replacement for my car at the current blue book value.

So you get the rider for replacement value.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[realityimpaired]

It's not that it's impossible to dismantle such anti-theft systems but that the anti-theft systems provide enough incentive for the thieves to move on and steal the low hanging fruit. Given two identical cars parked next to each other, where one has a club and the other doesn't, which one will the thief steal?

Depends on the car... which one's in better condition, and is more likely to have more saleable parts? A good car thief is going to have all the tools he needs to remove the steering wheel, club and all, within a minute or two, and the club itself won't actually serve as much of a discouragement.

If you want to prevent somebody from stealing your car, get a car that's harder to steal. Subaru, for example, has a very good reputation for not getting stolen, because even back in the 1980's, they were designing the locks in the doors to be hard to jimmy... try to take out an AA membership when you have a Subaru, and they'll tell you that it doesn't cover locking your keys in the car, because they can't guarantee they'll be able to break into your car to get the keys out.

And failing that, more recent cars have transponders in the keys which are tied to immobilizers. My current car is damned near unstealable, because it has such a transponder that is tied to an engine electrics immobilizer, a fuel line cutoff, and a brake lock. If you want to steal my car, you're going to need a flatbed. In response to the originally asked question, I know it's going to be student transportation, but these kinds of immobilizers do exist for scooters as well... have you considered shopping around for a scooter that has this kind of immobilizer? It won't stop somebody from just walking off with it if they're strong enough, but I think this is really a solution in search of a problem....

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Unequivocal]

I think if you got a pay-as-you-go phone plan with SMS, you could SMS the device when it's gone missing and it could reply with gps coordinates in response. Then you don't have to pay the monthly nut for data plan service? Not sure how pay-as-you-go works, but I think the minutes/service expires every few months but still cheaper than a monthly data plan..

That said, for a $5k bike, I wonder if theft insurance (not accident insurance/injury, which is much more expensive) would be cheaper than either of these on a monthly basis.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Insurance is cheaper if you use the club. Yes everyone thinks they're a master car thief because they know how to circumvent the club, but the device pays for itself within a few months.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you use the club to break the column helps to steal the car.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Z00L00K]

In addition to this the club signals that the car lacks an alarm.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tgd]

I've never seen a club on anything but a total piece of shit that no one would steal, anyway.

Although I had a coworker who used one so her kid couldn't drive the car.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[couchslug]

"If you're going to do that, just leave the car and steal the club."

Tools for recovery folks to snap clubs are quite simple, fast to operate, and have been available for years:

http://www.clubbuster.com/cb_directions.htm

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Stormthirst]

Better yet - steal the club and fit it to the other otherwise identical car.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

Are you kidding? Containers are $2k - stick a ramp in it to give two of the strippers room to get under the car quickly while everyone else works beside, inside, or on top, roll the car in, and get to work.

6 guys can strip a car bare in well under 2 minutes - including the power train - a lot quicker than the demos you see on the net with 3 body shop employees working without all the right stuff, like a pair of torches for the 2 guys to go underneath cutting through the exhaust, mounting bolts, etc., and a rail-mounted chain hoist overhead.

2 minutes, the car is stripped of everything, including the windshield, instrument cluster, steering column, seats, engine, transmission, rad, gas tank, quarter panels, doors, hood, trunk lid, bumpers, lights, battery, then they roll the frame back on the street, the wheels are finally popped off if the rims and tires are "interesting", and they're driving to the next one.

I guess you never saw the video where a gang in a truck with a chain hoist, compressor, and air guns stripped a car of the engine, doors, hood, trunk, and seats in 30 seconds right in the street.

Remember

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Rob the Bold]

I use "The Club" as icing on the cake combined with a hidden switch that turns off the PATS RFID antenna [1] and another switch for the fuel pump. If a thief gets past that, that is what insurance is for. But, they are going to fight for what they steal.

I agree -- The Club can be defeated easily. But it forces a thief to have to deal with it, and time is their enemy

[1]: The reason I turn off the PATS antenna is that for more sophisticated thieves, it will throw them off the scent, because all attempts they try at key cloning will not work. Of course, if that gets bypassed, the fuel pump switch ensures they won't go far.

Tow truck, shove into a cheap used metal shipping container, dismantle at your leisure - no tracking device will be able to get a signal through the steel walls.

Dump the stripped frame and body, buy it at the insurance auction, get the pink slip, and put the engine, transaxle, wheels, seats, etc. back in an sell it.

And yes, people DO do this. It's one reason insurance companies have begun crushing "strippers".

I liked the "icy-bathtub kidney thief" one better.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, if you don't want to spend he cash, this is what insurance is for.

Having said that, my father actually works for the auto squad in the police department for a major city and he has nothing but good things to say about LoJack. Evidently, in our city, they have an over 100% recovery rate, the extra coming from finding cars that weren't reported stolen within the area. We have a large port in the city so I guess they were going to ship them out or something. The only way they haven't been able to recover a LoJacked car is because the car has been completely and utterly destroyed.

So yes, if you don't want to go the "get a new one with insurance money" route, LoJack works and I think it runs about $700 for your purposes. Think it might get you an insurance discount too but I'm not positive about that.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

But the thing is, the Club is not a discouragement to anyone who has any idea of how to actually steal a car. Anybody stealing cars worth a damn knows how to get around the device. Not a problem. It takes mere seconds to defeat. Just read this:

http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/06/08/what-car-thieves-think-of-the-club/

The only people who are in any way impressed BY the club are the poor schlubs who feel like it protects their car and the clueless people walking by who see it and think the same thing. Odds are they are not the ones who would steal the car so, really, the device only makes an impact on exactly the wrong group of people. It's like putting up a stop sign and expecting dogs to pay attention to it.

The answer to how to keep you crap from getting stolen is to drive a junker nobody would want to steal, but to also be prepared if they do. If that is too hard, ride the bus.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[ToasterMonkey]

You won't find a cheaper way to cover the loss and there is no way to prevent it from being stolen for a reasonable amount of money. As it can be lifted into a truck, taken out and dismantled and any anti=theft system defeated before you can finish reading this response...

This is one of a dozen or so posts here categorically suggesting insurance...

Why assume insurance covering replacement due to theft of a $5K scooter to be used on a college campus, that could be tossed in a pickup by one person, is automatically going to be a good deal, for someone of average college attending age? You are also assuming the thing isn't financed because otherwise this insurance would be a given. I'm a not a rocket scientist, but I was under the impression that things you can afford to buy out of pocket are not the smartest things to buy comprehensive insurance policies on.

Anyone care to give ballpark quotes with deductibles for similar things and situations? It's pretty stupid to flat out recommend insurance for anything without getting actual quotes - AND various anti-theft and recovery systems will get you lower premiums. All of this needs to be weighed against the risk and other factors like is this your only method of transportation, does your wellbeing depend on having a scooter, etc, vs. price of replacing it yourself to know if it's a good investment.

What are your sources for insurance costs? Simply "insurance" is not a helpful tip.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[pitterpatter]

It's like putting up a stop sign and expecting dogs to pay attention to it.

More like putting up a "deer crossing" sign where you want the deer to cross.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Full coverage for my motorcycle is around $250 per year with a $500 deductible.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[j-beda]

Then you've got a bunch of parts that were cut out and not so easy to fit back into the car afterward as was originally stated. But even without that, how many hours does it take to lug that stuff around, and find buyers for it and collect money from them, etc, etc. I suspect like much of the drug trade, most of the "workers" end up making not much better than minimum wage.

Planning and executing a "2 minute strip" has got to take more than a few hours, and disposing of the stuff/turning that into cash takes a bunch of time and effort too. Being and "independent businessman" takes a lot of work maintaining existing clients and finding new ones and competing with newcomers who undercut your prices - this is even more difficult when operating illegally. Few of these folk are not being supported by girlfriends or family members - fewer still have a stable enough income to purchase a home or other long-term financial expense.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[gumbi west]

That is because the cars that are not total pieces of shit have immobilizers.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[gumbi west]

What year is this? most (if not all) of these parts have VINs on them now, plus, who would buy an after market gas tank?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Antique Geekmeister]

Yes, I saw that same episode of law and order with the youth leaders teaching the young bicycle ideas about "Stoic" manhood. The whole thing was very much about how boys become men in grease.

The trick works badly, and is likely to spill liquid nitrogen or shatter metal shards where you do *not* want them.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

First, there's no competition - biker gangs take care of that. A lot of this is stolen to order - someone needs a whole front end and engine, so a car gets grabbed, and whatever's left over gets fenced - and there are LOTS of buyers. People who want to profit from their insurance claim or not pay a high deductible, and lots of small body shops that know who to call.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

So what? Someone looking to save big bux on a used engine and transmission isn't going to look too closely. Also, that wouldn't be an aftermarket gas tank - it would be OEM, complete with the pump and float. Someone whose car was rear-ended is going to want that gas tank, along with the rear quarter panels, bumper, rear windshield, trunk lid, rear lights, etc. Bonus if the "new" parts are already the right color.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Why steal the car that takes 20 seconds to steal, rather than the similar one beside it that takes 5 seconds?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[j-beda]

Oh, I am not saying that there is not a lot of business - rather I am claiming that it is not a whole lot easier than "legitimate" work, and that it doesn't pay a whole lot more either.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[u38cg]

The one with the club. They provide a handy lever to break the steering lock with.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[u38cg]

Any law enforcement officer will tell you that successful criminals are generally well-organised, driven individuals that could probably achieve far more in the legal sector than the illegal. The problem is how to get them there.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tomhudson]

The real work is finding the vehicles - which is why they'll work with car dealership employees to get a print-out of recent sales. They nailed 2 guys at one used-car auction house here with several hundred copies of keys, along with the list of names and addresses, makes and models, and where they worked (from the credit application) for all the sales for the year.

That makes it really easy ... just find it parked at their job, drive it away with the spare key, and they won't even know it's gone for hours ...

They couldn't prove that the auction house owner was in on it - but he does have a criminal record, and it sure stinks to you-know-what.

Most theft is an inside job.

I know one guy (We'll call him "Ernie", because that's his name) who was sweet-talked into buying a new car by the saleswoman at a Chrysler dealership, and 2 weeks later, it was gone. So, after the insurance paid, he bought another one from the same place. A month later, same thing. The insurance company wasn't happy about it, paid him and told him to go elsewhere in the future.

Well, stupid is as stupid does (he was going through a divorce, and obviously thinking with his dick) - he went back to the same place a 3rd time, bought another car from the same saleswoman, had it insured with the "insurer of last recourse" - for liability only, since he could no longer get theft insurance because nobody would touch him ... and sure enough, it was stolen a month later.

One of those "more money than brains" things, I guess. At least, that's what we all told ourselves.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tgd]

Immobilizers don't do anything except deter a kid taking a car on a joyride. They're trivial to bypass quickly.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[gumbi west]

This is the car equivalent of "it's photoshopped, I see it in the pixels." Look at the most stolen car list only two have immobilizers (and I'm guessing those two are flawed). The other eight have been on the list forever. Why aren't newer cars on the list? They are harder to take.

Why my car (on the list) was stolen the insurance company said, they usually wait 1 month before writing a check, but that in the case of this car its only chopped so they waived this waiting period. So this is not joy riding.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Anonymous Coward]

Your logic is flawed. The reason newer cars are stolen as much is because there aren't as many of them. Logic, it's your friend.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[gumbi west]

Logic, first it is flawed, then it is my friend... I can't keep up with it. You see why we have such a strained relationship, no?

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[tgd]

Older cars are more valuable for parts, and tend to be owned by people in worse neighborhoods. That's why you see that bias.

Bypassing an immobilizer is trivial only takes a few seconds with the alarm going off, and only impacts kids looking for joyrides or methheads looking for some quick cash. You can avoid them by being smart about where you park.

Pro thieves aren't even slowed down by them. If they don't have a towtruck, they'll do things like carry spare ECUs with the immobilizer code removed, and swap ECUs on the car before driving off.

Can you maybe inconvenience a thief more than your vehicle is worth? Perhaps, but the odds are your car wasn't that valuable to begin with. Can you inconvenience a theif more than the car parked next to you? The club will do that, an immobilizer won't - the thief will already trash your car before they realize its an issue.

Your best bet is a) insurance and b) hoping you never see it again.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[Coren22]

LoJack gives no discount with Nationwide. I wasn't aware of this when I got it with my car, but peace of mind is there at least.

Re:It's called "Insurance"

[gumbi west]

"Older cars are more valuable for parts" then you would expect a standing wave with "age x" Hondas and Toyotas being the most popular but it has been stuck at the pre-immobolizer cars for a long time. Having driven a number of these Hondas and Toyotas, there is little joy in driving them.

A certified mechanic takes about 1/2 hour to install an immobilizer unit in my car. Obviously there are some shortcuts (i.e. why unscrew what you can rip out) but if a thief wants to bring $1000 in equipment to my car (necessary immobilizer parts plus programing unit), they will probably want their stuff to work after they have taken the car and so will have to take some care. Some steps also require waiting a minute--not a fun thing to do while sitting in a car you are trying to take.

At that point, I'd rather just crack the hood, disconnect the alarm from the "whooper" and tow it.

Look, cops in my area said carjackings are the best way to steel a car now because of immobilizers, and since they know the crime stats, I'm going to have to go with them.

choose pink

[GreatDrok]

Noone is going to steal a pink electric scooter. Maybe put some flower stickers on it.

Re:choose pink

[tripleevenfall]

There are more Rollergirls out there than you think.

Re:choose pink

[meerling]

hmmm.... maybe pink skulls and actual rabbit entrails hanging on the back, that should dissuade anyone from wanting it, including the unfortunate owner. :)

Re:choose pink

[Anonymous Coward]

This works amazing well on tools too. Not for thieves alone, but people who would "borrow" your tools.

Re:choose pink

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I have a friend whose pink scooter got stolen in Los Angeles a couple months back. Even had a huge skull sticker slapped on the front. True story.

Re:choose pink

[hawk]

Um, what about that would be out of place at a roller derby? Sounds like roller-bait, actually.

hawk

No good for car

[oldhack]

If your car was stolen, you don't want it back. Trust me.

Re:No good for car

[quacking duck]

As with most things, it depends. My parents' Neon was stolen in '98 and taken for a joyride, but otherwise left intact and unmolested except the ignition had to be replaced, and we used it another 10 years afterwards. My brother's car was also stolen, but after being recovered it was fine until he sold it.

Don't know how "creative" the thieves were who stole your car, but it certainly doesn't apply to thefts everywhere.

Re:No good for car

[gumbi west]

I got a car back (a car so likely to be stripped that the insurance company waived the usual 1 month waiting period in favor of 1 week) and the worst thing that happened to it (aside from the ignition being removed) is that they got a photo enforcement ticket and had to contest it without guidance on how much evidence I needed. They weren't even going that fast, I think 30 in a 25 or something.

Buy a dog.

[apparently]

It is a known fact that burglars skip over houses that have dogs in them in favor of houses without dogs. The same should hold for your scooter. As an added benefit, if you pick the right breed, the coolness of the dog will balance-out the total uncoolness of the scooter and you might still have a chance at getting laid.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Unoriginal Nick]

A dog won't help much when parking on a college campus.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless they steal the dog too.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken. Might want to have that looked at.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Greyfox]

Claim it's a seeing eye dog and therefore you should be allowed to park in handicapped spaces!

Re:Buy a dog.

[Jon Abbott]

Obligatory National Lampoon's Vacation scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LrFEbxWzXI

Re:Buy a dog.

[couchslug]

"coolness of the dog will balance-out the total uncoolness of the scooter and you might still have a chance at getting laid."

There's always the "peanut butter" alternative. It's YOUR dog.

Re:Buy a dog.

[Anonymous Coward]

Claim it's a seeing eye dog and therefore you should be allowed to park in handicapped spaces!

That seeing eye dog must be wonderful if it can help you drive your scooter!

lojack

[hedwards]

Chances are that the insurance company will pick up a significant portion of the tab to have the vehicle lojaced. I was looking into it when I was going to buy a motorcycle and the cost after insurance company rebate and discount makes it quite inexpensive. Plus they have a good record for recovery and ever car that's lojaced increases the likelihood that a vehicle thief is going to be caught red handed and sent to prison.

Re:lojack

[JoeMerchant]

I have used LoJack on my car for about 15 years now. One benefit of LoJack is that there is no recurring fee (other than battery check / replacement), and it is supported by most law enforcement agencies.

The disadvantage of LoJack for something like $400 vs a DIY thing for $200ish (all told after you pay for EVERYTHING related to it) is that you can't play with it and do your own location of your scooter when it isn't really stolen.

If you value the play factor, you might consider getting one of the GPS kid tracking cell phones, but monthly fees will get you up to over $400 before you finish 4 years of school, even for the cheapest of cell phones.

If you want to go full nerd on it, you can get a HAM foxhunt type solution with or without GPS. If you're honest about what you spend on such a setup, you'll be far above the cost of a LoJack which is essentially the fox transmitter, with the local Police picking up the tab on the hound locator/receiver for you.

Re:lojack

[Anonymous Coward]

A HAM solution would be APRS based and driven off the vehicle's battery. You're looking at a few hundred bucks.

Re:lojack

[formfeed]

If you value the play factor, you might consider getting one of the GPS kid tracking cell phones, but monthly fees will get you up to over $400 before you finish 4 years of school, even for the cheapest of cell phones.

Put in a European sim card. With roaming fees it is probably a couple $ per call, but you only need it when the scooter gets stolen. And a $20 card is good for a year.

Re:lojack

[gumbi west]

Might want to checkout the lojack site again and update that price. Min is $700 and looks like $1,000 is not uncommon.

Re:lojack

[ustolemyname]

OP mentioned discounts and rebates from insurance, which he had presumably factored in.

you could build something for $130

[craftycoder]

Building one for $130 would be easy enough. You would have to pay a monthly for cell service though.
An Arduino, a voltage regulator, a GPS module, and a GSM module would be the essential parts. Stick them in a weatherproof enclosure and conceal it on the scoot. You would be good to go. You would need to write a little code to get it to squawk its location to a webserver somewhere so in case it was stolen you'd know where it was hiding. I'm not sure how much the retail version are but I'd bet they are similarly priced. Economies of scale are a bitch.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Stevecrox]

Wouldn't it be simpler to get an old Symbian phone and write an app?

A Nokia N95 has GPS and it very low power compared to modern phones (week between charges), you get a cigarette charger hooked up to the battery to keep it charged and then write an application that listens for text messages. Upon recent of the text message he phone would text/email it's number. Then all you would need is a water proof case and a pay as you go sim card.

A quick check on ebay shows them going for £40. I'm getting a Honda CBR 600 RR next week I might do this.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Zadaz]

Yes, but there is really nowhere to conceal anything on an electric bike.

If you're spending $5K on the bike spend another $200 on a very good bike lock and use it. The current crop of electric bikes are hilariously ugly and heavy. No one is going to steal one on a lark, and you're not going to be able to stop a professional thief with a lojack.

Re:you could build something for $130

[benjamindees]

I imagine GPS and GSM modules for the Arduino will run you more than $130.

It would probably be cheaper to use an Android phone. The Neo Freerunner is very hackable, but has poor battery life. I'm sure you can find a better one. Just add a prepaid cell plan for around $10/mo.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Anonymous Coward]

You might be able to get a second hand smart phone with a broken screen for a lot less. That would give you GPS, some form of network and probably accelerometers for tilt detection (Maybe just report when it was moved). Depending on how it was concealed it could take a picture as well.

Re:you could build something for $130

[icebike]

If you can add a phone to your cell plan and pay cell service, why in hell would you want to build something?
The phone companies will GIVE you an entry level smart phone and there is an APP for that.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Zeussy]

Wouldn't it be simpler to get an old Android phone and use google Latitude? It seems you can get old Hero's for around $80, create a google account, install Latitude, add your Bike/Car as a friend to your android phone and your done. Buy a cheap 12v cigarette lighter to usb converter, take it apart and plumb that into the wiring of the bike/car to keep the phone charged. Find somewhere to hide/stash it with good clear access to the sky (so under/inside some plastic trim). Still need to pay for each month for a data connection, or in here Australia there as prepaid mobile internet plans that allow you to buy 1 gig of data that lasts for a year for $15.

Re:you could build something for $130

[billstewart]

From Sparkfun.com you can get a GPS module for $40 and a quad-band GPS shield for $60, add $20-40 for Arduino/clones (or $10 for home-brew on the perfboard you were going to need to mount the GPS anyway.) You can do it under budget if you want, or everything from prefab for $150 with no trouble. But it's still going to cost a bit more than buying a used iPhone 3G (or an iPhone 1, if cellphone triangulation's good enough instead of GPS), and that'll cost more than buying some other used cellphones that have GPS and Java.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Stevecrox]

I was considering power draw and size, if your dealing with an electric scooter an old android phone is going to have an affect on the battery life. A windows Mobile 5/6 phone might not be too bad...

Your right that something like google latitude/foursquare/facebook would be simpler (and you an get it on the N95, 5300, 5800, etc...) the problem is data plans. In the UK Pay as you Go offer either 500Mb free a month if you top up by at least £10 a month or £1 for 25Mb (valid for a day). I'd rather put £10 on a card and have the device start streaming its position once a minute when I ask it to.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it be simpler to get an old Symbian phone and write an app?

A Nokia N95 has GPS and it very low power compared to modern phones (week between charges), you get a cigarette charger hooked up to the battery to keep it charged and then write an application that listens for text messages. Upon recent of the text message he phone would text/email it's number. Then all you would need is a water proof case and a pay as you go sim card.

The problem is that the pay as you go plans will likely cost you about $1/day, whether or not you use them. That would be really expensive...

Re:you could build something for $130

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you need a data plan if it just keeps calling 911 every 5 minutes?

Re:you could build something for $130

[BeaverCleaver]

And there are plenty of examples already out there for inspiration. Here's a setup that one guy did for his scooter that has all the tracking features you need (and plenty that you don't, however that big touchscreen is nice) http://www.janspace.com/b2evolution/arduino.php/2010/06/26/scooterputer

Re:you could build something for $130

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

In the UK Pay as you Go offer either 500Mb free a month if you top up by at least £10 a month or £1 for 25Mb (valid for a day). I'd rather put £10 on a card and have the device start streaming its position once a minute when I ask it to.

Use GiffGaff (they're on the O2 network). Up to 20MB per day, it costs 20p so that should keep costs down.

Re:you could build something for $130

[Anonymous Coward]

The activation text message can be skipped if you're smart....

Have the device listen for your bluetooth phone. It doesn't have to connect. But if the acceleration sensor shows movement and your normal phone isn't near, it should go into alert mode. Maybe it should go online and report every few seconds? Maybe it should just start a tracklog and report the location when movement has stopped? Maybe send an SMS to your normal phone, inviting you to reply: "all ok" (if a friend has your permission to use your scooter) or you can call the police even before you'd normally have noticed it gone....

Re:you could build something for $130

[gzuckier]

Verizon (and I would guess most of the big phone plans) has a parent/child thing that'll run on any phone with a gps, doesn't need to be smartphone, where the parent can see where the child is at any time, and get alerts when the child leaves a certain area, etc. Always thought that the smart thing to do would be to set my old phone to child status when it got obsolete instead of dropping it, then add a new phone, wire the old phone up to the car (or scooter) electrical, and stuff it behind the dash somewhere.

GPS Tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

Instamapper provides a tutorial for a pretty cheap tracking option. It is basically free, except for the hardware cost ($35 or so) and the data cost (10/month so so). You may need to worry about weather-proofing but that could probably be taken care of with a zip lock bag. Check it out, this may be exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.instamapper.com/diy.html

look at motorcycle solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of motorcycle anti-theft solutions that make sense for a $5k investment. Most are alarms and some have a fob that gives you a warning. The fob or a text message doesn't do any good, since the scooter will be gone by the time you get to it. A good u-lock, or a good bike chain lock from Kryptonite would allow you to lock it to a fixed object. I'm not sure you'll be able to find an affordable gps-based tracking system that you can hide on the thing.

But anything you can pick and carry away is vulnerable to theft unless you solidly lock it to an immovable object. Instead of buying a top end scooter, I'd suggest buying a reasonably priced motorcycle that's not a target for theft. For the type of riding you'll be doing, a motorcycle is safer (better brakes, better engine, taller, etc). Most motorcycle deaths on secondary streets are caused by cars hitting riders, so you'll need to wear all the same protective gear and pick up all the same skills you need to safely ride a motorcycle since you're just as vulnerable (more, actually).

Tracking on the cheap

[ldm]

Find a Xexun TK-102 on ebay, they will report back their position via the mobile network (you supply a SIM card, and can send it a request for the current position, it will text you back). You can get large extended battery packs too, or you could wire it into the bike's power. They work well enough for us to track drivers at work. Just make sure you get a genuine Xexun one, the others are less reliable and tend to lie about their position, in my case being offset by about 4 miles. There are separate car sized ones, but I have not used them.

Re:Tracking on the cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

There are separate car sized ones,

Somehow that doesn't sound practical.

viper alarm

[Anonymous Coward]

get a viper alarm. you can get them for motorcycles, which is essentially the same thing as a moped or scooter regarding theft. it will alarm if the bike moves off it's kick stand, upright, or moves a distance. it will alarm on the bike and alert you via a keychain device that tells you whats up. you can turn it on and off with the remote as well. look to spend 300 for this. too much for you? then dont own a 5000$ bike that two people can pick up and put in a truck.

Re:viper alarm

[Lumpy]

and they are junk. Viper bike alarms are easy to defeat. I saw one disabled in a sportbike in 30 seconds at a motorcycle rally.

GPS/Cellular

[PPH]

There are GPS trackers that incorporate a GPRS (or similar) uploading function. Some of these are smaller than a pack of cigarettes and contain a backup battery (in case the thief figures that disconnecting the primary battery will disable any alarm).

These will report in continuously (any time the tracker changes location), so you'll have to either turn it off or filter the messages in the event of authorized use.

The down side is that you will have to pay for a wireless plan that supports this minimal communications.

U-lock

[Anonymous Coward]

buy a u-lock and put it through the front tire. I would get a kryptonite or similar. Make sure it's thick steel. No one will be able to move the bike without a forklift.

Re:U-lock

[Locutus]

if it has disc brakes, I've seen some pretty nice locks which go into a hole on the disc so it's easily portable.

as others have said, being able to lock to a fixed object is best. Next would be motion based alarm and then the last resort might be a full on GPS-GSM tracking system. Or you could wire some electric shock system to the seat and handlebars triggered by the motion sensor. When you hear ambulance sirens, go back to your bike and watch them pick up the convulsing would be thief. Don't forget the warning label.

LoB

Re:U-lock

[Anonymous Coward]

"I would get a kryptonite or similar." ... or maybe not. At least not if it uses a round key. Look on youtube for videos of guys opening this with a BIC pen in under a minute!

Child GPS locator

[YrWrstNtmr]

How about one of the GPS kid locators? I despise them for tracking your kid, but for your scoot? Maybe. I've seen some for $200 or so. Mount it on the bike somewhere hidden...reports back to your smartphone.

dealextreme comes to rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

less than 30 euro
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/gsm-realtime-anti-theft-vehicle-tracker-81881

the downside: chineese documentation

Re:dealextreme comes to rescue

[kingturkey]

DealExtreme have quite a few options to choose from. You put a SIM card in them with a data plan and they send their GPS location to an IP address of your choosing at a set interval.

For personal use you can point the device to the servers at http://gps-trace.com/. They can show you the real time location and history on Google Maps, you can set up a geofence alert (tells you when the device leaves certain boundaries), etc.

One member created an Android app to make configuration easier for a particular model (TLT-2H), so you can avoid the Chinglish manual. (Set up is done by sending SMSes to the device in a particular format, the app automatically produces the SMSes for you with the defined parameters.

Check out www.blacklinegps.com

[Anonymous Coward]

They have small units that can be hardwired in a hidden location and include their own rechargeable battery. Tracking app provided as well as web app. Canadian company based in Calgary.

Old smartphone

[Anonymous Coward]

get a g1 or mytouch phone from ebay for ~$80 and hide it somewhere, and write an app that sends you a text message with coordinates every once in a while. as a bonus, you have an emergency phone available. I'll write the app for you, even. mkb@libero.it

Garmin GTU-10

[pem]

I have two, on things I don't want to get lost.

Garmin has two plans. The simple one lets you draw virtual fences around where it's OK for the thing to be, and alerts you when it leaves the area, and also lets you poll for location at any time.

The more full-featured plan (basically $10/month) also will automagically poll and keep history, so you at least know where the thing was when the thieves realized that it had a GPS tracker on it and ripped the thing off.

I built a little 12v -> 5v converter for the one of these I have on a device that has a battery, and hooked it in permanently, so every time the main device is switched on, the GPS's battery gets recharged.

A big rock.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like a one ton boulder. Just set it under the boulder and no one will be able to move it.

Re:A big rock.

[Anonymous Coward]

A one ton boulder is probably no larger than the scooter itself, if that.

Re:A big rock.

[Captain.Abrecan]

It's a bit interesting isn't it? Stone is rather heavy for the volume it takes up. I figured this out fast when I tried to build my own castle out of concrete blocks that I poured myself. They just sit there now...

Let the feds do it

[mrbester]

Become a person of interest to the FBI and they'll track you with their superior equipment free of charge.

Re:Let the feds do it

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess, is that you'll get the full service! If someone steals it, you just call a family member and tell them that the nuke detonator, which is being transported in your vehicle, is being deployed.

Geez you guys are dumb sometimes. Here!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-GPS-Tracker-GSM-GPRS-GPS-Tracking-Device-Auto-Vehicle-TK103B-/320778127660?pt=AU_Electronics_GPS&hash=item4aafddc92c

Re:Geez you guys are dumb sometimes. Here!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GPS-GSM-GPRS-Car-Vehicle-Tracker-TK102-no-retail-box-/180755342382?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a15dba42e

Or here.

FBI

[codegen]

Get yourself on the terrorist watch list. The FBI will install one free of charge.

Find a motorcycle.

[Anonymous Coward]

Park next to it. Everyone will go for the motorcycle.

Side note, why bother spending 5k on an electric scooter? Buy an old Japanese bike for 1k.Less embarrassing for a fifth of the price. If its for environmental reasons I'm sure it's worse to buy a brand new electric bike then to just burn a small amount of gas. The battery manufacturing process is pretty nasty. So is the mining and smelting of all the raw materials needed to make all the other parts.

APRS

[Nethead]

Get a ham license, an old 2m handheld and a GPS puck.

http://www.aprs.org/

Re:APRS

[RubberDogBone]

APRS is great.

Tells everyone instantly where your car full of juicy expensive ham gear is parked, what route you normally drive, what time you leave and come home, where you shop, where your friends and relatives live, which drugstore you use, where your kids go to school, which church you attend, etc.. Even better if your spouse is also a ham and unknowingly rides around with a radio actively spewing APRS all the time. Now the whole family is tracked!

With really good APRS data and a little time to sit back and watch, you can know nearly everything about a person except what he flushes down the toilet -well, you may know where he ate it, though.

APRS makes it easy for anyone to know the sort of information LE is not allowed to know without a good warrant. And it's free and out there, thanks to all the APRS dudes who want the entire world to know where they are at every moment.

Thanks, guys. I love you all.

Re:APRS

[Nethead]

So you say crowdsourcing his scooter watching is a bad thing? You just have to spin it right.

Re:APRS

[dubner]

It's even easier than that. There are fairly inexpensive turn-key solutions for the "appliance operator" ham.

http://www.byonics.com/mt-rtg

or Duck-Duck-Go the Yaesu VX-8GR radio.

A ham license is a requirement but it can be done by rote learning in one day. There is no Morse code requirement for an entry-level license. It's nothing like old-time ham radio and the typical newbie who gets a license just for APRS can't even tell me his callsign without looking on his paperwork :-(

--
Joe

Cheap smartphone would do the trick.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just buy a cheap smartphone and use a low end data plan. You could even strip the guts out and make a custom box I'd you wanted.

Prioritise proven law enforcement credibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately that may collide with the goal of low-cost.

There's been plenty of reports about people using their home-made tracking systems and getting zero interest from the police. You should go for one that has proven to have credibility with the police (which basically means a brand name and existing relationship that the company has invested in to build).

Alternatively, if you go for a home-made one, it might work because a scooter is big enough not to hide easily. In that case if it's ever stolen you should NOT call up the police and say you have a homemade tracking device - rather just track it down yourself, and when you see it parked somewhere, call up the police and say you randomly spotted it and is absolutely sure it is yours.

tk102 and other gsm trackers

[Anonymous Coward]

I've have a tk102 tracking device on my bike. It has a fence mode, to alert you when it's been moved or you simply call the device and it replies with an SMS with a google maps link. There are various versions of it and other similar products, originals and various knock offs.

Also their batteries last only a few days, luckily I got mine with a charger which works on 12V. However it's a stupid charger which drains my bike's battery in about 5 days. I'll install a switch, so I can turn it off when I'm not using the bike and it's stored securely. The pre-paids here cost 15€ and come with a cheapo (unlocked) phone or simply one or two euros. I paid 50£ for my unit, I'm sure one can them cheaper too. Check out ebay or amazon.

They are crap, but work and are cheap. I still hope I'll never need mine.

We don't make much of anything anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

a "Made in the USA" sticker.

Why would you say that?

Because any would-be thief will be massively overcome with disbelief. That level of cognitive dissonance would probably make him pass out.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[linuxwrangler]

We don't make anything anymore? Popular rhetoric, I suppose, but I thought /. readers dug down to the numbers.

Let's look at some facts: The US is still the largest economy in the world. The US is still the largest manufacturer in the world - 1/5 of the entire world's output. China will probably pass the US soon but they have a billion more people - over 4 times as many - as the US. The US is the largest trading country in the world. Sure, the US economy is in the tank with nearly 10% unemployment. But where would one go? Greece (18%)? Spain (>21%)? Ireland (14%)?

There are some bright spots like Germany and Brazil but they are currently the exceptions.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[Khyber]

"The US is still the largest economy in the world."

Not without California, it isn't, given that California by itself is the like #5-#8 economy on the globe right now.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[hairyfeet]

As far as cars go? No we don't. What we have is a "branded" product where most of the guts come from somewhere else, often a LOT of somewhere elses, and then are simply thrown together here. Look at the Ranger which I drive, its a nice truck but frankly its more Mazda than Ford anymore and for everyone outside the USA it is ALL Mazda with a Ford decal.

And how much of that economy is fictional products, ala IP? I bet if you took California out of the equation we'd drop off the map and biggest thing cali has is Hollywood. Since digital makes it beyond simple to just copy anything you want (a friend went to Asia and said they have movies being sold on every street corner and you can buy Windows 7 all versions on a thumbstick. I wish he would have thought to buy me a Win 7 stick, it was only $6 US) I have to wonder how much longer THAt will last.

Finally here is a figure that will make you want to puke, in just the last decade the USA has lost 21,000 factories although I'd suggest that if you have eaten recently don't click on the link as the data they have will piss you off and ruin your digestion. We were ONCE a truly great nation, but sadly those days are long gone. The "get a better education and you'll compete!" lie has been driven through with a stake thanks to offshoring, H1-Bs, and so many college educated about to default on their loans simply because there is no way to EVER pay them back when everyone is having to compete with 300 other guys for scraps. I wonder if one day people will look back at the cold war years like they did with the old "the sun never sets on the British empire" days, because it is pretty obvious at least to me our good days are over and BRIC is coming to the top of the heap now.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[SuricouRaven]

Look on the upside. All those third-world and developing-economy peasants putting widgets together in factories? In thirty years they'll all get replaced by robots and join the unemployed.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[imamac]

Why on earth would you NOT count California? Last I checked they have neither seceded or fell into the ocean, so it's still one of our states. Even then parts of it are virtually bankrupt.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[SnarfQuest]

Apparently, this one thinks it's part of Canada. It's probably because of the weird food they all eat, and the funny way they talk. Like, fur shure, gag me with a spoon!

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[imamac]

With all the talk of California's looming bankruptcy, I seriously doubt that.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[ewanm89]

I think he is pointing out that most of the figures are from what is produced in california, now lets think what that is, shall we start with the San Francisco Bay area or Los Angelos? hint, hint.

Re:We don't make much of anything anymore

[Khyber]

"Looming bankruptcy"

Yea, which is why we're still by ourselves in the top 10 in the global economy. What does that tell you about the rest of the world, eh?

Sorry, without us, the USA (and a HUGE majority of the globe) dies.

Come back when you have an actual clue of the state of the world as a whole. Get a passport (I'm on my fifth one, full of stamps) and actually go learn this shit for yourself.

So many places so severely dependent upon us that is isn't funny any longer.

While you could...

[Anonymous Coward]

While you *could* get a method to track your now stolen scooter, what is the point? Are you seriously gonna retrieve it yourself? Dangerous. Get the police to do it by giving them the data? Difficult as that still requires the police getting a search warrant on probably cause assuming the police would cooperate with you.

Either way, it's an expensive solution that creates alot of hassle if it does get stolen. Quite simply, insurance is your best bet. The relatively low cost and reliability is much better. You know you will get the money if your scooter isn't recovered with insurance. Doing it yourself, you have to deal with the probability of the scooter recovery. Even if you do recover it, you have to deal with the time it took to recover it and the possibility of damage to the scooter during the time it was missing.

Insurance = minor hassle who you know who to complain to if things don't go your way
Your own method = hassle in which you may not even benifit from

Re:While you could...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be more interested in punishing the criminals than recovery. A world in which crime is risky is better than an world in which the rest of us just accept crime as something insurance will cover.

Re:While you could...

[cdrguru]

The world has evolved to the point where crime is considered to be just a cost of doing business. There are criminals and there are victims, and that is pretty much the way of it. The police aren't terribly interested in non-violent crime, especially when it is something that can easily and cheaply be replaced. There is way, way too much violent crime for them to spend a lot of effort on stolen stuff.

Also, this is a significant way for people to gain access to things they otherwise would not be able to afford. Once someone figures out there are few real consequences to stealing there are a lot of opportunities out there. Grab something and the chances are the original owner (or shopkeeper) is just going to (a) write off the loss on their income taxes and (b) get reimbursed by the insurance company.

The one aspect of tracking down a thief is that sometimes they are very protective of their lifestyle. You aren't going to be able to convince the police that you have successfully tracked down "your" thief and there is little proof from standing around looking that a particular item is in fact yours. You want to risk being branded as a thief by trying to read the serial number off some hard-to-see spot on someone else's scooter? Should you successfully find your former scooter are you ready to confront the new owner mano-a-mano? Consider they may be armed - are you going to be? And if armed, are you ready and willing to use deadly force to recover your scooter if the new owner is ready and willing to use deadly force to prevent you from taking it? If not, it is best to forget about recovery.

Insurance is the new way to deal with such involuntary wealth transfers, at least for affluent people. If you are poor, you wouldn't be buying good stuff anyway. If you think you can't afford the insurance but can afford the scooter, you might want to consider what lengths you are willing to go to over your property.

Re:While you could...

[Anonymous Coward]

I say either kill repeat thieves, or at least brand their foreheads.

Re:While you could...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most thieves are not violent and will bullshit there way out of the confrontation rather then face jail for a violent crime. Also, your wife called and wants her pussy back.

Best Anti-Theft System for College Campuses

[Hugh Pickens writes]

Paint it Pink.

Re:Best Anti-Theft System for College Campuses

[tomhudson]

Or buy a used hearse.

Not only will nobody steal it, but you get to go through red lights at 10mph with all your friends following you.

it's not worth the worry

[Anonymous Coward]

get a cheap bicycle instead

Christ, buy an old M3 for the same price

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you'll have to fix it up a touch but it's a dam sight more useful and dignified.

Stick, not automatic, or I'll go over there and slap you.

Alternative Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a refund on the scooter. Buy a $500 bicycle. If you get 10 bicycles stolen, you'll still break even on what you would have paid on the scooter. Also you'll be in better shape and hipster chicks might think you're cool.

dedicated smartphone

[roc97007]

It occurs to me that you could get a really cheap ("free") smartphone with GPS (not a Samsung, their GPS is crap), hide it somewhere on the vehicle (where it can still get signal) and track it with Latitude. Dunno what to do about notification. There's probably an app for that.

Re:dedicated smartphone

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to do your research though.

If it has a real GPS unit, it needs line of sight to the GPS satellites, so the only place it can really be placed is in plain sight. But data use is low.
If it's A-GPS, it needs to have a constant data connection to operate, but on the plus side it doesn't need line of sight, but still doesn't work in parking garages either.

So the end result is that as long as the vehicle has a signal (be it GPS or A-GPS) and a data transmission path (GPRS or WiFi) you can use any cell phone that has both. Most cell phones do NOT have a real GPS chip, and are purely A-GPS. Which means you have to choose wisely.

Devices like the iPhone and N95 do location tracking via WiFi as well, but this is not accurate enough and too power intensive (you might get only 4 hours out of the battery instead of something closer to 5 days.)

A more ideal method, if you want to invest a little bit more money is to find something that has a SiRF III or better chip already and runs Android and combine that with any usb-stick GPRS modem if the device doesn't have one. You can buy the GPS chips with a USB dongle for like 40$. Basically three options:
1. Cellphone with GPRS,UMTS + GPS/A-GPS, no additional parts
2. GPS computer device + USB GPRS/UMTS modem
3. Separate GPRS/UMTS device + GPS device + something like an Arduino, all three of these devices have to be serial devices.

Note that GPS devices are usually available as serial, so you can omit the USB chips. GPRS modems tend to behave as "modem" modems, as in you can send AT commands to it. You can get positional data from the many cell phones if you can communicate with it as a serial port.

So all you really need to do is have a program that initializes the GPS, then initializes the GPRS modem, then relays the GPS data to the GRPS modem.

There is some more complexity involved of course since a TCP/IP stack, and destination is involved, but you can probably build an entire device for under 100$ but it would be a three-piece unit. But you could also just find cell phones with GPS that are easier to deal with, and easier to disguise, plus can be used to actually call 911.

But as for building a device, it's often cheaper then children/pet trackers.

Low-tech solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Weld a steel loop to the chassis and use a motorcycle chain to lock it to a building.

Enfora

[GalacticOvergrow]

I have been working on an online GPS tracking system for about 4 years now. The tracker we use the most is from Enfora. For about $130.00 dollars you can get their newest model with built in antennas and a 3 axis G sensor. It has a latching output to control a disable relay, a couple extra I/O (digital in, digital out and analog in). It supports different types of geofence and an overspeed. You should be able to find a service that supports this tracker for 10 to 25 dollar a month or you could roll your own if so inclined. Typical data usage is about 1 meg a month. I would shamelessly plug my service but I only operate in Brasil in partnership with risk management and insurance companies.

UberTracker!

[Jon Abbott]

Sounds like a job for the Sparkfun UberTracker! It grabs GPS coordinates and sends them out via email using the cell network. It polls the GPS at a programmable interval (as much as once per minute or as little as once per day). Not sure if it can be programmed to start sending coordinates upon being moved though, so you may have to just activate it whenever you park the vehicle. Total cost: $325 + shipping.

Off topic, but cheaper, more portable e-bike...

[rthille]

http://yikebike.com/
I don't have one, as I'm holding off to see what my new job's commute will be like, but it looks pretty interesting to me anyway.

Re:Off topic, but cheaper, more portable e-bike...

[xaxa]

http://yikebike.com/
I don't have one, as I'm holding off to see what my new job's commute will be like, but it looks pretty interesting to me anyway.

That has a pretty limited range. A normal electric bicycle at least lets you pedal if you decide to go further than you have charge for.

Re:Off topic, but cheaper, more portable e-bike...

[rthille]

Yeah, though you can gang extra battery packs onto them. It doesn't have that high a top speed either, and I'd probably be faster on my (pedal) bike, but would arrive all sweaty.

Students are Untrustworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Since I'll be parking it on a college campus, it will be vulnerable to theft.

Just because YOU are a student, it doesn't mean that everybody else is going to be as untrustworthy as yourself.

You remind me of this person I knew who wouldn't let me into his home because he was afraid that I would steal things (because I wasn't middle class like the other people I was with). Well at least I'm not black. At least being poor means that you can make yourself look like a Winner, which is how successful salesmen are made: just ask Steve Jobs.

Anyways yeah, never trust people who try to improve their knowledge and education. I guess it must be some Promethean type thing. Meanwhile I won't even bother trying to answer your question because you demonstrated that you are an asshole unworthy of an answer. BTW, I could probably guess that you live in the United States of America, because only in a place that is so anti-socialist and pro-capitalist would they have students who would even think of stealing somebody's transportation at an institution of higher learning. When you can't even trust people at your own school; it's just a very sad commentary on where you live.

Re:Students are Untrustworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on a campus where the students are a little too trusting. They don't always lock their bikes up, and don't always lock their cars. At the start of the semester around 10 bikes were being stolen per week. It isn't that we can't trust the students, but it only takes a few bad students, or even off campus visitors, and you start having problems.

Re:Students are Untrustworthy

[91degrees]

On a campus, you only need one untrustworthy person to steal a bike

Re:Students are Untrustworthy

[xaxa]

Students aren't untrustworthy, as far as I know. But thieves know they have lots of new stuff, like bicycles and computers, so they make an inviting target.

Re:Students are Untrustworthy

[Rob the Bold]

Since I'll be parking it on a college campus, it will be vulnerable to theft.

Just because YOU are a student, it doesn't mean that everybody else is going to be as untrustworthy as yourself.

You remind me of this person I knew who wouldn't let me into his home because he was afraid that I would steal things (because I wasn't middle class like the other people I was with). Well at least I'm not black. At least being poor means that you can make yourself look like a Winner, which is how successful salesmen are made: just ask Steve Jobs.

Anyways yeah, never trust people who try to improve their knowledge and education. I guess it must be some Promethean type thing. Meanwhile I won't even bother trying to answer your question because you demonstrated that you are an asshole unworthy of an answer. BTW, I could probably guess that you live in the United States of America, because only in a place that is so anti-socialist and pro-capitalist would they have students who would even think of stealing somebody's transportation at an institution of higher learning. When you can't even trust people at your own school; it's just a very sad commentary on where you live.

Wow! Could you come help at my next movie night? You seem to be really good at projection.

The geekiness of electric scooters & getting l

[Anonymous Coward]

A few years ago I bought, and started using, an electric motorcycle. A geekier vehicle has rarely been seen.

Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be an utter chick magnet. Better than a puppy. Even better than a baby. Once two women lifted their shirts and pressed their chests to either side the windshield. I kid you not! I was constantly approached by curious women (and some men) wanting to know about the vehicle, and then giving me their contact info. I wish I'd known about this effect when | was single!

Your mileage may vary.

Get the FBI to do it!

[erroneus]

Just buy a few suspicious chemicals and/or read some carefully selected books at the library and they will tag your vehicle for tracking for you. Just check it periodically for modifications, remove it, re-purpose it and you're done.

..what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Electric scooter that costs over $5000

OhShitNiggerWhatAreYouDoing.jpg
WhatTheFuckAmIReading.jpg
WhyWouldYouDoThat.jpg
Seriously!? OP, you are an idiot. For $5000 you could have bought a really nice, low-mileage motorcycle from the used market, giving you the following benefits:

• Great gas mileage compared to a car
• Refuel at any gas station in minutes (instead of having to find an outlet and waiting hours)
• Larger than a scooter, better visibility to other drivers (read as: SAFER)
• Ability to carry a passenger (read as: chicks dig motorcycles)
• Not riding down the street looking like a complete dork (read as: You bought something a spoiled brat 12 year old's parents would have bought them to shut them the hell up)
• Not having the shit kicked out of you for looking like a complete dork because you're riding a piece-of-shit scooter (see above)
• Actual resale value later on (shitty electric scooter? Not so much, not at all)

My advice? Try and return the shitty thing and get your money back, buy a motorcycle.
Oh, and so far as your anti-theft worries? Don't bother worrying. There is nothing you can do to prevent theft of it if someone really wants it, and even if you run a huge cable through both wheels and the frame, it's not going to stop someone from taking parts off it. Or just smashing it up, and vandalizing it.

Doesn't matter

[richardtallent]

A tracking device will only help aid in recovery *after* theft, it won't prevent the theft in the first place.

Since you already likely have to carry some sort of insurance, it's cheaper to just ensure you have coverage for theft, ensure that the front wheel is locked, and keep the make / model / VIN / photo / insurance info handy in case you ever have to make a police report.

I'm speaking from experience, my scooter was stolen a few years ago -- Vespa LX-150. The insurance company cut a check, I bought a new one.

Re:Doesn't matter

[Rogerborg]

...less any policy excess, then you got raped on all insurance policies on all vehicles because you suffered a theft, the thief was free to steal again, and some chump bought a stolen bike. Insurance is the very last line of defence.

get a bicycle

[Anonymous Coward]

It will help work off all that beer.

Easy

[Yvan256]

Just buy a minivan and lock your scooter in it once you arrive at your destination.

APRS

[elkto]

Pick up an Amateur Radio License and install a APRS beacon.

Arduino anti theft app

[SergeyKurdakov]

Maybe this arduino app with be of some use http://b.leppoc.net/2011/04/23/operation-lo-jack/

Worth?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm about to complete the purchase of an electric scooter that is worth over $5,000. Since I'll be parking it on a college campus, it will be vulnerable to theft

Priced @ != "Worth" and anything is vulnerable to theft, to varying degrees with relative factors.

Replace it with a bike?

[hawguy]

If it were me, I'd replace the $5000 scooter with a $500 bike and a $20 u-lock. Replace it when it gets stolen.

Re:Replace it with a bike?

[BoRegardless]

Better uses for $5000, so get a crapo bike or scooter off Craigs List.

They will steal a wheel anyway if they need a tire.

In fact buy 2 off Crags List.

As a bike rider (for 42 years)

[Anonymous Coward]

The only deterrent is the big chain & padlock. If the bastards can't move it in 15 seconds then the will move along to the next target.
Alarms? Don't make me laugh. I had a brand new Fazer stolen from right outside a Police Station. Alarmed? Yep. Immobilised? Yep. Did the alarm go off? Yep. The Buggers simply put it inside a 3.5ton truck and drove off with the alarm sounding.

They caught up with them as they tried to board a ferry from Immingham to Gothenburg. There were more than 20 bikes in the back of the truck. All less than 6 months old.

Now I carry a heavy chain and lock. The chain is think enough to stop standard bolt cutters.

I can't give this thing away.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a 79 jeep with manual choke. Who here actually knows how to start something with a choke?

Little mystery knob on the dash that just doesn't have to be operated, but operated correctly.

An Inexpensive Anti-Theft Vehicle Tracking System?

[amanicdroid]

Have you considered a giant ball of yarn? Tie one end to a pole and the other to a fender. If the bike gets jacked just follow the string.

Carefully placed....

[ma1wrbu5tr]

and hidden, a cheap prepaid cellphone with GPS tracking turned on should do the trick. P.I.s use them to track surveillance subjects all the time. Just be sure to turn the ringer off.

Re:Carefully placed....

[Oshawapilot]

That would have been my suggestion as well. A carefully placed old iPhone 3G hardwired into the electrical system (to ensure it stays charged) with Find My iPhone enabled would do the trick, and be quite slick at that - you could track it on anything from a desktop computer, another iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch, or heck, basically anything with a web browser.

Yes, there's a recurring monthly fee associated with that for the underlying cellular service, but I don't think that there's many options for this sort of system that won't carry a fee of one sort or another.

Re:Carefully placed....

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.byonics.com/. is selling multiple APRS tracker models. With ham radio license there is no monthly fees and you can see the whereabouts of the vehicle for example from http://aprs.fi.

Check out

[Anonymous Coward]

Drone, SmartStart, etc.

The issue with those is they need to have a full fledged alarm system to work (DEI, CompuStar, etc)... so that might be a draw back but the units + service are fairly cheap, plus you can get paged/texted/emailed/etc when the alarm is tripped or the thing is moved out of the set area

Insurance

[Richy_T]

Next to a straightforward disk lock or chain, generally considered the best and most cost-effective "in event of theft" option amongst the motorcyclists I regularly converse with.

a suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a keypad, some circuitry, a microcontroller and some CD-4. Program it so after the key is turned on, the explosive goes off in 30 seconds unless you have entered a nice strong passcode that you have shared with no one. You may lose your investment but then you will do the world a favor by taking out a scambag thief. Check your local laws, first. And be damn sure you remember that passcode.

Just piss off the FBI

[d0nju4n]

They'll do it for you.

Chain and padlock, meet lamppost

[Anonymous Coward]

The low tech way is hard to beat and the battery will never go flat.

An added benefit is that when you wear a leather jacket and carries a chain in one hand - NO one is going to give you shit...

Needs a sticker, imo

[Anonymous Coward]

...My other scooter is a shotgun.

Zoomback?

[SEWilco]

"Keep track of your valuables with the universal A-GPS locator from Zoombak." $100 plus T-Mobile service fee. Check T-Mobile coverage.

EntouragePS tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

Escort Radar has a new GPS product, the EntouragePS vehicle tracker: http://www.escortradar.com/entourageps/

Battery powered and portable so you should be able to find a way to mount it on your scooter. It has real-time tracking and can alert you via text message, and at $300 is pretty inexpensive. Looks like it meets all your requirements.

Re:dedicated smartphone ($35)

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy an old phone on ebay. Set it up to use the free wifi on campus. Then try one of the tracking apps for it.

a What?

[Lumpy]

Of you can afford to waste $5000 on a electric scooter then you can afford to pay insurance on it and let it get lifted and then replace it.

a $800.00 used 250cc-500cc motorcycle will do far, far, FAR more than what this scooter can and still get 100+mpg. Plus you wont look dorky and it wont get stolen. A ninja 250 sportbike is dirt cheap even brand new, less than $4500.00 if you find an honest kawasaki dealer. Plus it has enough power to put a set of givi saddlebags on it so you can carry a LOT of stuff.

Can you get your money back on the electric toy scooter?

Re:a What?

[supercrisp]

Yeah, I was going to say this too. I'd go, though, for a Suzuki GS500 (40-60mpg). That's a great beginner bike, with plenty of power and pretty easy handling. I'd say any bike of around 500cc is a good started. The 250s just don't have the oomph that's handy for brief periods on the interstate or on busy highways. Yet a 500 is generally still light enough to maneuver into tight parking, etc. Scooters aren't the best investment for two-wheeled transport; they're underpowered and over-priced. That said, the fairing and floorboard do make it easier to wear nice pants and shoes. I've been commuting by motorcycle or bicycle since the 80s, and those can both be pretty hard on khakis. If you really want a scooter, those SYM Symbas look damn good. I used to have a Honda passport or express or whatever it was called. That thing would really scoot for its displacement, and it had larger wheels, which makes a LOT of difference when you hit that pothole you didn't see. And the rake on the front is a little better at high speed than what you get on something like a Stella or old Vespa. And if you want to spend $5G on a scooter, I'd go for an Aprilia. Those are fast, have bigger wheels, and don't have a lot of heavy batteries to drag around.

Re:a What?

[Anonymous Coward]

This ^

Re:a What?

[Anonymous Coward]

$800 will buy a PoS that's been wrecked multiple times and probably doesn't have a straight frame... though it has the benefit that it's unlikely to be stolen because it's missing 70% of its fairing and what's left is cracked and duct-taped.

A Ninja 250 will get you 70mpg, from personal experience with one in a good state of tune.

A 500 will get you less: 50-55mpg.

Small scooters (50-125cc) will get better mileage.

However, I still agree with the basics of your message - the electric solution is catchy but probably neither economical or surprise surprise as environmental (citation needed, but 5000$ worth of electric scooter is unlikely to be as economical as a gas scooter that gets same or better "mileage" and costs a fifth the price minus the horrible b@2rez).

Re:a What?

[Rob the Bold]

a $800.00 used 250cc-500cc motorcycle will do far, far, FAR more than what this scooter can and still get 100+mpg. Plus you wont look dorky and it wont get stolen. A ninja 250 sportbike is dirt cheap even brand new, less than $4500.00 if you find an honest kawasaki dealer. Plus it has enough power to put a set of givi saddlebags on it so you can carry a LOT of stuff.

Can you get your money back on the electric toy scooter?

If the dude's looking to build his own lo-jack, fear of appearing dorky is not at issue here.

But re: the motorcycle vs. scooter . . . aren't there still college campuses that give priority parking to scooters? Like scooters having use of the bike racks vs. a motorcycle forced to use the student parking lot halfway across campus? That's the way it was at my school, but twas also many years ago.

Re:a What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any motorcycle you find for $800 is going to be an unsafe POS.

Re:a What?

[MojoRilla]

Maybe the guy cares about the environment.

A recent Mythbusters episode says Motorcycles are pretty dirty.

Re:a What?

[Lumpy]

You know absolutely nothing at all.

right now there are a LOT of smaller CC bikes for sale cheap. $800.00 is what I saw recently for a ninja 250 that has never been laid down and looked new with less than 2500 miles on it.

Maybe if you even knew something about motorcycles or even looked at prices you would have a valid argument.

Re:a What?

[Lumpy]

And that mythbusters was completely bad.

they tested old bikes that were NOT equipped with Catalytic converters. They were FAIL from the first moment.

Then their last test they used a freaking DIRT BIKE instead of a road bike, but it actually had a catalytic converter and fuel injection... but tuned for OFFROAD use so it can by law have higher emissions.. Again. do the whole test with a road bike that is modern with a catalyst converter and suddenly their tests will be different.

Mythbusters is purely entertainment and ZERO content on occasion. and this one is a big "for entertainment use only" as they did not do enough research from the start.

Comparing catalytic converter equipped cars to motorcycles is stupid. it has only been the last 2 years that Catalytic converters on bikes have became law.

Next on mythbusters, Are chainsaws good for the environment? we compare them to hand saws!

Re:a What?

[Lumpy]

Ok too harsh... but you are still wrong....

http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=motorcycle&srchType=A&minAsk=800&maxAsk=900

Gobs of very good bikes for $800-$900.

They are all over the place in great shape. you really need to look.

Re:a What?

[DerekLyons]

Of you can afford to waste $5000 on a electric scooter then you can afford to pay insurance on it and let it get lifted and then replace it.

I was thinking much the same thing. Plus, $5k for a scooter? WTF? Either the OP has more money than sense, or no common sense whatsoever.

insurance.

[supercrisp]

An insurance policy that covers theft and vandalism is your better bet, especially on a college campus.

Re:insurance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that when it comes time to pay, the insurance company will do its hardest to avoid payment and should the said payment be forthcoming it will be the absolute minimum possible.

Re:insurance.

[marcus1000]

Agree. Unfortunately, insurance just works well in theory. Once you get your stuff stolen, the insurance will tell you that on page 256 of your contract it says: "only valid if scooter stolen on a Friday, 13th with a full moon"

Happened to me.

Best regards,
MM

Start by Painting It Bright Pink

[NicknamesAreStupid]

Then tie it to your pit bull
Wire it to your Tasser
Plant an IED in it
Take off the muffler
Wrap it in 30' of 13/16" continuous length XIP IWRC wire rope and 18-pound Kryptonite lock
Leave it parked in the most public place, climb a nearby tower with a sniper rifle, and pick off the first five people who try to take it.

Word will get around.

you're doing it all wrong

[TheGratefulNet]

first, steal someone else's scooter. use it as long as you can. then, when 'yours' eventually gets stolen, its just the universe keeping parity. you won't feel so bad. maybe it was someone just like you!

(what? like, your idea is better.)

there's no way to protect stuff anymore. alarms, etc, don't work. if you live or work in a bad area, that's just how it is. don't own nice things - or don't get attached to them. when I lived in boston, my car got broken into almost once a year for all the years I was there (my college days). now I'm in the sf bay area and my car has gotton broken into just once in about a decade. the difference? where I live. its not the alarm or other anti-theft (other than being stealth). its all about where you are; and you often don't have a thing you can do about that.

buy a junker and if it gets stolen/trashed, get another. you can't have nice things in a bad area. sorry, life don't work that way.

Arduino lo-jack

[Anonymous Coward]

--plug-- (Hope it helps though ;) )
Here is my lo-jack version
http://b.leppoc.net/2011/04/23/operation-lo-jack/
Arduino based, with gps, cellular shield, and RFID.

Why?

[RobinEggs]

an electric scooter that is worth over $5,000

Why? For $5,000 you could buy a bike that will last the rest of your life, buy it a lojack, you'd combine some daily exercise with your commute, and you might even have some money left over.

Unless your commute isn't safe on a bicycle or you live well over 10 miles from campus I can't imagine any good reason to buy a scooter, other than as an eco-hipster penis extension.

And come to think of it, a commute of more than ten miles and/or not safe on a bicycle wouldn't be much more pleasant on a scooter...

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or for $5k you can buy a reasonably nice used car. Or a pretty damn nice used motorcycle. Your commute will be a lot faster and more pleasant, and you can be an adult like the rest of us. Come to think of it, you can probably buy both for $5k if you shop around - then you can drive when it's wet, and take the motorcycle when it's nice out.

Scooters are for pussies, and bicycles are children's toys.

chinese documentation

[whathappenedtomonday]

Don't worry, there's help: "Using Google Docs to do OCR of the manual, and then Google Translator to translate the manual to English, here are the results."

Awesome features, too, like coma dialing: "Set voice messages to send QA1 start monitoring, live sound that coma dial your phone."

The actual downside: "positioning will work only in China, using ChinaMobile network."

Re:chinese documentation

[Anonymous Coward]

there are are alternative at different prices...that is the first result and the cheapest..for 70E you can find a pretty good one

Used iPod Touch

[frnic]

Buy a used iPod Touch (under $100 USD) and wire it to charge off of the scooters battery, then you can use "Find My iPod" service if the scooter is ever stolen.

Just hide the iPod someplace it is not likely to be found right away.

Re:Used iPod Touch

[RobinEggs]

Buy a used iPod Touch (under $100 USD) and wire it to charge off of the scooters battery, then you can use "Find My iPod" service if the scooter is ever stolen.

Which will work great if the thieves haven't left your house yet. I'm pretty sure no model of iPod Touch has more than WiFi for networking, nor do any of them have GPS function that isn't tied to said WiFi, nor will they even acquire an unknown WiFi network without user input. All which would make them completely useless as a tracking device.

Re:Used iPod Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the least costly way. Use an old GPS capable smartphone and a dirt cheap prepaid provider. An Android phone with speakout wireless, say latitude.

Which is the more American car?

[perpenso]

As far as cars go? No we don't. What we have is a "branded" product where most of the guts come from somewhere else, often a LOT of somewhere elses, and then are simply thrown together here.

It works both ways. Which is the more American car, the American branded car with 60% US made components and assembled in a NAFTA trading partner or the Foreign branded car with 40% US made components and assembled in the US? I personally can't decide. By "more American" I'm thinking employed more US workers.

BTW, the details are not made up for the sake of argument. Those numbers came off of two vehicles I looked at.

Re:Which is the more American car?

[TheLink]

At least one site claims that Toyota Camrys are the most "american" cars :).

2011
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0611&referer=&aff=national

2010
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0710

2009
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0709

Re:Which is the more American car?

[DavidTC]

By "more American" I'm thinking employed more US workers.

More workers, or more work?

What if a vehicle was built in two locations, one in the US and one outside, and required 2 workers in one location and 4 in the other, but the 2 workers each spent an hour working, and the 4 workers each spent five minutes?

Which would we rather have in the US if it was either/or? The one with 2 workers. Because that is actually providing more jobs per car. Or, rather, less cars per job, so obviously they're going to hire more people to keep up with the other location.

What I think might be interesting is some sort of time estimate. Not how many workers, but how many man-hours of time was spent in each country.

The real problem with 'percentage' is that car companies basically just assemble parts provided by other companies.

But if we were talking man-hours, those can just be directly added up. Instead of trying to figure out what percentage of a car the fuel injection system is, so we know what 'percentage' of a car was made where.

Let somebody else do it for you

[dr.Flake]

Surprised to see noone has opted the easiest solution yet!

Make some random calls to people in Saudi Arabia, Soedan, Ethiopia, etc.
Make sure to mention words like bomb, white house, infidel, plane etc etc.

If some one steals your bike, just call the FBI and ask them where it is.

 

Get a bike

[Anonymous Coward]

Get off your fat ass and get some exercise! A cheap bicycle will cost you less even after you have to replace it once or twice, and you might even shed or keep off a few pounds.

Now, I know some of you will ask, "What makes you think Chuckles is fat?" It's because he's so damn lazy he wants to ride around campus on a gorram electric scooter!

APRS

[Wapiti-eater]

One method - and kinda fun too - get your Technician class ham license and setup an APRS tracker. Hams have been doing this since when, 1998 or so. It's pretty much 'ancient' tech. But robust as all get-out. Not only can you track your scooter - but you can do other things too. Better part? Once you've got it up and running - no air charges. http://www.aprs.org/ http://www.aprs.fi/

APRS

[Anonymous Coward]

Get your amateur radio license, Byonics Tiny Track, small gps, and a HT. Probably around $300 and no monthly subscription. You can check the location of your car with your phone, aprsworld.net , www.findu.com

Europe's view

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure if I'm telling you anything new, but here over in Europe, the designation of "made in the us" is far from a recommendation. The Chinese made crap is really more reliable than the stuff that's exported out of the good old US.

The gap between the high-tech realm of NASA and such institutions and the low-quality manifacturing plants is staggering. Not too long ago anything made in the US would be considered high quality. Not anymore. Anything coming from the US is highly suspect, quality wise. We'd really rather take our chance with lead poisoning from Chinese products.

I'm not kidding either. US products really have a "do not want" vibe around here...

Re:Europe's view

[HornWumpus]

Fair enough. Same as english and french garbage then. Unless you are German you should not crow about European products.

Switch

[atari2600a]

Here's what you do: split your key 'on' or starter switch lead (which should legally still be there) to a switch epoxied under the case somewhere, then wire that up to the horn. Problem, thieffags?

And we wonder why college students are broke?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work and can't even afford a 500$ used car! Fuck you.

but if you are informed..

[Adayse]

If it tells you when it moves without you knowing then you know and it doesn't need to tell you, or if it tells you without you knowing then you don't know and the telling isn't required. Take your scooter with you to class if you love it that much.

There's statistics, and then there's you lying ...

[damn_registrars]

That Honda that you love so much? If you actually read the news you would know that for model year 2009 Ford matched Honda and Toyota in initial quality and owner satisfaction surveys. And if it wasn't for the touchscreens they installed in 2010 vehicles, they would have matched them for that year as well.

So before you go bashing three completely different corporations under one blind moniker, do your research.

Hell, the 2010 Motor Trend Car of the Year was the Ford Fusion. Being as that was also a model year for an all-new (and therefore CotY eligible) Toyota Camry, that is a huge coup for Ford. Anybody who reads Motor Trend knows that very few awards from them have gone to Ford, GM, or Chrysler in the past couple decades.

But you didn't seem to want to bother with facts in your post. So I won't expect you to follow up on this.

Re: The Club

[jtara]

I had an amusing encounter recently with two dumb surfers.

(I don't know if there is a Two Dumb Surfers joke genre', but if not I'm starting one now.But this isn't a joke - it really happened.)

I was walking through a S. California beach parking lot, and I noticed a nice 50's pickup truck all tricked out. Not quite a "low rider", I guess these are called "cruisers". So, I assumed they were admiring the vehicle.

As I walked past, one called out to me: "Excuse me, sir, can I ask you a question?" I say sure. "How does that work?"

It took me a few seconds to realize he was talking about "The Club" installed in the steering wheel of the pickup truck. I explained that it was an anti-theft device.

He said, "I know that, but how does it work? How does it keep somebody from stealing your car?"

I told him that it limits how far the steering wheel can be turned, and so makes it difficult to drive the car away. You wouldn't be able to make turns.

"Because it would hit you in the leg?"

I said that, well, that might be true, but that in addition to that, if you tried to make a left turn, The Club would strike the inside of the door, making it impossible to turn the wheel further.

He appeared dumb-founded. "Oh. Thank you!" His friend was apparently equally clueless, BTW.

I wish I had thought to add:

"unless you drive it away with the driver door open, which might attract some unwanted attention..."

Insurance

[DogDude]

That's what insurance is for. If you're going to get reimbursed if it's stolen, why do you care where it goes after it's stolen?

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[d00f]

The problem with this is that it's media-driven. You can't compare reliability on a vehicle until you've had 1,000,000 on the road for 5 years. You are correct that Ford has done some catchup over the last 10 years but talk to anyone in the industry and they will tell you that the money is all made repairing domestics. Their engineering strategy of cheaper cheaper cheaper means a constant supply of work for us mechanics. I love domestics because I can make a lot of $$$ off them.

plant a grenade wired to a count-down timer

[Anonymous Coward]

Just never forget to reset the timer.

Get your ham radio license.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a ham radio license and look up aprs on google. If you're willing to do some soldering you can get everything you need for a real time tracker for about $150 and up depending on how complicated you want to get.

Easy!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Razr on a prepaid plan cost me $20 every 90days or so. wired in to the batt. it's on my rebel 250. then I just use the gsp finding thing from att to find it any time I need to ^_^

Just let the FBI do it for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

all you need to do is start dating the sister of a drug-gang member or something else to make them get suspicious.

gps my droid scooter edition

[Anonymous Coward]

Just leave your Droid (or a spare on a family plan) in the storage compartment on silent. Then when it is stolen, you forget where you parked or your "friends" decide to move it to the roof (the most likely scenario), you can just text "GPS my Droid" to get its location.

My anti-theft design

[poptix]

My vehicle was recently stolen in Daytona Beach, FL so I've put quite a bit of thought into this.

I'm using an HTC Incredible (busted screen, but it has composite output!) firmly embedded in the vehicle itself in an inconspicuous location, wired into its own battery + small 12v battery + vehicle battery (all properly fused to avoid battery shorting attacks)

Using perl via ASE the Incredible polls the vehicles location every 5 seconds, determines if the vehicle is stationary or moving, and keeps a log (on sdcard) if it changes within 10 meters from the previously logged location.

If the vehicle is moving the bluetooth subsystem is polled to determine if my current phone (HTC Thunderbolt) is within range, if not, it starts emailing me location changes. I can also email the phone and query its location if I happen to forget where I park.

I plan on supplementing this with an Arduino in the future to automatically lock/unlock the vehicle depending on if I'm nearby, some type of ignition cutoff, flashing headlights/interior lights, horn and perhaps some very loud air horns inside connected to a compressor to at least deafen anyone that breaks into the vehicle and attract a lot of attention.

Future plans also include a pico projector (once the laser pico projectors have a high enough lumen output) for a HUD on the windshield using the same HTC Incredible or a small low power PC. There are various OBDII bluetooth interfaces that would work well for displaying various gauges on the HUD.

It's quite a fun project for a very small investment.

U-lock to lock it to something solid

[Anonymous Coward]

I've owned several motorcycles, scooters, and bicycles, and never got any of them stolen:
1. Get a reputable U-lock (Abus is a good brand, but there are others), and use it to lock the frame to something fixed that's securely in the ground
2. If you can, avoid leaving your scooter in a dark place with little traffic.

And as someone pointed out, pink vehicles have much lower odds of getting stolen ;-)
www.familyhomesecurity.com/car-thieves-picky-about-color/

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[LurkerXXX]

1-year owner satisfaction surveys don't mean much to me. I want to know how reliable the car is going to be 5 years down the road. Ford doesn't have much of a record for long term reliability.

An old iPhone 3Gs

[Anoraknid the Sartor]

Not a perfect solution I grant, and it requires you interact with Apple kit/websites - but lots of people upgrading to iPhone 4S's have perfectly functional 3GS phones, which will run iOS5, that they may be happy to give you are sell to you for a modest sum. (Not sure what they cost on ebay, here in Japan people are giving them to me "free" - I have quite a collection I am wondering how best to use...)

As far as I know, the GPS works reasonably well without a network/3g connection. You should be able to use either the "find my iPhone" facility, or, if you have another iToy, set it up on a separate account and set up the "Find Friend" function. You will need to provide power for it of course, but then hide it as best you can. Password protect the iPhone of course.

I THINK that should work.

Prepaid cellphone and GSM provider location servic

[citizenr]

Prepaid cellphone and GSM provider location service.
Any cellphone will do, so free
Receiving calls on prepaid in Europe lasts 1 year from purchase date.
GSM providers let you locate your own cellphone with an sms. All you need is to activate it (one time fee) and after that its as easy as sending sms from a number you activated. Location data is triangulated celltower info, not GPS. but still very accurate and useful.

as an alternative you can use more modern phone with symbian/android. In Europe you can remotely top up Prepaid card at any time during that year. So you just stick prepaid in the phone, mount it on the bike and forget about it for a year. In case it is stolen you transfer $10 to the card to activate it and you are good to go.

get insurance? WRONG

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of the submitters here seem to think that getting insurance is the easiest and best way to go about this. However, isn't this mentality giving the thieves what they want? Why don't we focus on using technology to fight back?

Rig up a unique alarm

[L473ncy]

Why not rig up an alarm like this http://handsomedonkey.com/videos/the-orgasalarm-patent-pending/ With a bit of programming and some off the shelf components you should be able to make one in real life and if someone tries to steal the scooter everyone around will turn and look at the person.

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[Anonymous Coward]

depends on the Ford. Rear-wheel-drive Fords are excellent. Easily get decades of use out of them. Same with GM and Ford trucks. The common thread there is rear-wheel-drive. Front-drive, not as good.

Cheap DIY solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I came up with a cheap DIY solution for this awhile ago I have detailed instructions on how to make it here http://www.actlab.utexas.edu/~kingofthesofas/?p=3

For a free GPS Tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

For a free GPS tracker all you need to do is send Wikileaks an email that says 'Phase 2 complete, more to come.'.

Re:The geekiness of electric scooters & gettin

[Antique Geekmeister]

Those weren't women.

Make It Unattractive

[greenlead]

Paint it bright pink with daisies all over it?

Position logic has exactly what you need.

[Anonymous Coward]

We have the perfect solution. Using a gps device , a sim card and www.positionlogic.com software you can do everything and more. Better yet. Call us an it be yours for free. Just so you know we understand your needs. Take care. Felix

SMS tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

Track or disable it via SMS

http://www.in-car-stuff.com/shop/sniper-selftrack-subscription-free-tracker-p-352.html

AT&T has $200 tracking device for sale.

[dalias]

It's tiny and seems to do exactly what you want. Comes with one year of free service, no idea what the monthly cost is after that.

To stop them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Take the tire off the front! insure the thing for more than it is worth as personal property under your homeowners or renters insurance

Cheap.

[Anonymous Coward]

Android Phone + Tuitrip App

Let Uncle Sam Help

[misfit815]

Get yourself on the terrorist watchlist, and let the government do the rest.

Blackline

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a device from Blackline GPS for $150 (it was on sale at the time), and for $15/month, I get notified by email or text if my car ever moves when I don't want it to.

gopass

[drinkypoo]

A taiwanese company called gopass makes several GSM tracking solutions. If you can find someone to give you a SMS-only plan then you can use it quite effectively. The fancier models have audio options so that you can listen in on in-vehicle conversations, which doesn't sound useful on a scooter, but if they drive it into a garage or something then you might overhear something handy.

SPOT

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a device on Amazon named SPOT - cost $89.00 - will email you GPS location of device and allow you to control it to dial 911 - not sure how you will mount it , but it is made for hiking pretty durable and probably could be adapted to meet your needs

Lots of comedy writers on Slashdot - my favorite was the yarn solution

Simple and cheap options...

[pakar]

Attach a hidden horn (120db) that will go off if someone moves the bike without turning it off..
Also build a cheap ass taser and add a few leads to where you usually touch the bike if you are dragging it.

Wire it up so it will go off after one of the wheels has turned 2-3 times to prevent it from going off accidentally...

For GPS tracking... get a cheap-ass phone (http://www.lightinthebox.com/pan-android2-2-smartphone-w-3-2-inch-touchscreen-dual-sim-tv-wifi-gps_p208017.html) that you wire to the internal batteries.. mod the phone and put an external GPS antenna on the bike just below some plastic covering...
Then you just use one of the existing apps or write your own that will either send a email to you with the coordinates every 2-3 minutes when moved without being deactivated..

Other simple way to do it is to get a really cheap-ass phone without data-service, get a USB or rs232 GPS module and a cheap router that you run openwrt or similar on, when bike is moved just send a text with the coordinates...

There are no effective anti theft systems...

[rocket rancher]

As a former military criminal investigator, I can talk a little about vehicular theft. I have conducted a lot of community outreach classes on personal safety and crime prevention, including classes on how to deal with carjacking and how to minimize your risk of vehicular theft. I can flatly assert there is no anti-theft system that is going to deter a determined pro thief. You can chain your scooter up, but all it takes to defeat your $50 Kryptonite U-Lock is a bottle of liquid nitrogen and a $1 screwdriver. Four guys and a panel van is all it takes to steal a Harley in about ten seconds; a scooter requires two people and a car with a large trunk and about a five second window. Lining the interior of the trunk with small-mesh chicken wire creates a Gaussian cage that will defeat any kind of transponder- or GPS-based tracking system. We routinely confiscated cell-phone blockers from chop shops -- the professionals keep up with the technology they need.

You can deter casual, opportunistic thieves with U-Locks and a prominently displayed LoJac sticker, but if you have a high-ticket scooter and a pro thief wants it, he's going to get it.

Re:The geekiness of electric scooters & gettin

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok .. now you're just begging for attention from those of us who will believe your non-believable story.

GPS Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

There a lot of these devices out there: http://www.passtimeusa.com/intouch

How did this get forgotten

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy a Trunk monkey!
Problem solved, pay extra to get the models that clean up the mess VERY WORTH IT

I think this is going to hurt....

[InspectorGadget1964]

Have a look at http://http//usdebtclock.org/

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[mjwx]

1-year owner satisfaction surveys don't mean much to me. I want to know how reliable the car is going to be 5 years down the road. Ford doesn't have much of a record for long term reliability.

Owner satisfactions surveys mean nothing at all. A useless marketing metric that does not reflect real quality or construction, merely blind brand loyalty (in Australia Holden (GM) and Ford fanboys are worse then Apple fanboys, at least Apple fanboys are too sissy to start a fistfight). I have a 98 Honda Civic, it's done 250,000 KM (Australia is a big country) and kept very well maintained. That engine, chassis, drive train, axles and everything will do another 250,000 KM if kept well maintained, well except for Gearbox, probably.

Honda's are very well made, very reliable cars, the flipside of this is that if anything vital on the Honda does break, it will cost a fortune to fix. If the GGGP's Honda engine did die, without the free replacement it would be worth more to scrap the car.

Re:The geekiness of electric scooters & gettin

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha, good one. You sell electric motorcycles, don't you?

Re:There's statistics, and then there's you lying

[Captain.Abrecan]

If it helps, I have driven my 06' Ford Five Hundred to hell and back. Literally pushing the limits with that machine since the day I got it. It just doesn't quit, or break. It never gives up. After all the shit I've put it through, it is still a glorious machine of unrivaled fury. I have been through so much shit with that machine, I trust it with my life. My friends all bought Fords because of the experiences we have had in that car. They love their Fords too. You should probably try owning one and see what happens. Especially considering that my girlfriend's new civic breaks down every month. Always needs parts, always in the shop. The damn thing just dies on the road, cold turkey, no warning. Poor girl is just trying to listen to lady gaga, and drive 2 (two) miles from our home to where she works, and the car starts smoking. Parts fall out from underneath it, the whole thing shakes. There are random shorts in the wires that break components all the time. The mirrors fall off if you close the door too fast. The transmission gets stuck in one gear. The hazards flash on and off and the engine quits while driving, locking up the whole drivetrain like the car hit a wall. Biggest piece of shit ever created. Same thing with my grandfather's camry. Domestic vs foreign is a big marketing campaign to make domestic look like shit.

Chinese GPS/GSM tracker

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi,

I bought this one and am quite happy with it.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/spy-mini-gps-tracker-tracking-real-time-live-vehicle-tracker.html

It does have the ability to alert-on-move, but I don't use it. I reckon that I'll discover that my car is missing before any thief will discover the device. I dial up to the installed sim, get a busy tone and right after that I receive a text with coordinates.

Cheers

LoJack

[evangellydonut]

I have a LoJack installed on my motorcycle, and it sends me text messages whenever it gets moved... not sure about cheap though... anti-theft will usually reduce your insurance premium.