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Smart Meters Wreaking Havoc With Home Electronics

wiredmikey writes "About 200 customers of the Central Maine Power Company recently noticed something odd after the utility installed smart meters in their homes: household electronics, including wireless devices, stopped working, or behaved erratically. Many Smart Meters broadcast in the 2.4GHz frequency range. Unfortunately, so do many of the consumer gadgets we take for granted these days including routers, electric garage doors, fire alarms, clocks, electric pet fences, answering machines, and baby monitors — even medical devices. The electromagnetic congestion in the home is in some ways similar to the growing electronic congestion in hospitals as they acquire more and more electronic monitors all operating within a few feet of each other. Medical equipment has been known to shut down or give erroneous results when positioned close to another piece of equipment. Such interference is not new, just getting worse — rapidly."

88 of 375 comments (clear)

  1. Other stuff is OK by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but what are clocks and answering machines using wireless for?

    1. Re:Other stuff is OK by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Clocks also use a specific frequency for doing so, it's 60 kHz for the UK ones and I think the German one is 77 kHz (it's called DCF77 anyway). They're not exactly local transmissions - you can pick them up nearly 2000km away, afaicr.

      Unlike the 2.4 GHz band, those frequencies are reserved and licenced. 2.4 GHz is a free for all.

      --

      Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

    2. Re:Other stuff is OK by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      TFA seems to be confused. Clocks use low frequency signals to set the time automatically, most commonly 60KHz or 77KHz. Answering machines are presumably built in to wireless phone base stations, so really it is only the handsets that need 2.4GHz to work.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Other stuff is OK by Ozoner · · Score: 2

      > Last I checked they used 2.5, 5, 10, 15, and 20 MHz to get the WWVB Time signal.

      You should check again.
      WWVB is on 60KHz and is a completely different service to WWV.

  2. only going to get worse... by lostsoulz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Most utilities are moving to smart meters. It's a technological nirvana propounded by PHBs and the companies selling the crap. Just think, you don't need to waste hard cash on people actually reading meters. Hell no, you can drive down a road and read all the meters with a laptop. Except you can't because some of the technology is immature and signal strength from these devices seldom reaches the manufacturers claims.

    We were told by a manufacturer that their technology was secure because their software is proprietry. It's a recipe for disaster...especially given that a quick google for "security research smart meter," returns some interesting results. Welcome to the brave new world of smart metering. Minus the "smart."

    1. Re:only going to get worse... by AlecC · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to TFA, the smart meters will do more than that. They are intended in the medium term to allow power control within the house. So that the meter can signal to, say, the freezer that power demand is particularly high, and if it could hold off consuming power for a while it would be appreciated. And if you have electric cars, could they not charge at peak times, but turn on quickly as the peak subsides rather than doing it on a crude timer (or, in the most optimistic scenario, turn around and return power to the grid at extreme peaks).. In principle, this could save trillions in new power stations and power distribution.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    2. Re:only going to get worse... by mrbester · · Score: 2

      Any device that decides it can dictate when something that requires to be on continuously like a freezer should turn off will end up a twisted lump of trash in the street. I'd rather pay the extra couple of cents than risk food poisoning.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:only going to get worse... by AlecC · · Score: 2

      Most freezers have a large allowance for power cuts. If you get a power cut and do not open the freezer, it should stay cold for 24 hours. If you cut that margin to 18 hours, that will get them through the evening peak, and possibly stop you getting the power cut at all.

      The care would probably be only the top, say, 25% of the capacity so you always have 75% if you need to go out in a hurry. Since peaks are in the evening, if you do not intend to use the car again until morning, overnight charging will have topped it back up to 100% by morning.

      Of course, having only 18 hours instead of 24 of safety and risking the car being at 75% if you need to make an unexpected journey are both losses to you. But the utilities should be saving enough money to make the difference to your power bills significant.

      Put it another way: you paid a lot for that big battery in your car. Why use it only when driving? Why not make that investment earn money for you while it is sat outside your door?

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    4. Re:only going to get worse... by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Energy firms in the UK already report unusually high power usage to the police, as it's often a sign of someone running a canabis factory.

      --

      Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

    5. Re:only going to get worse... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Actually there are very good reasons for having a smart meter, reasons that are not only for the utility company's benefit.

      The place I work creates products for detecting leaks in pipes. We are currently looking at decides that interface with smart water meters to detect leaks inside people's homes. You could have a leak and not know about it if it is small, or if you happened to be away when it started. One not uncommon scenario is for people to go on a winter holiday and come back to find that a pipe froze and fractured, damaging their home.

      Most products that do this kind of thing operation is ISM bands (Industrial, Scientific, Medical) which for the world is usually 433MHz and for the US 916MHz. 433MHz is ideal because you get good range with low power transmitters and since you only need to transmit very small amounts of data once a day or so congestion isn't usually a problem.

      I have no idea why these smart meters would be using 2.4GHz and apparently transmitting all the time.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:only going to get worse... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      So growers took to bypassing the meters.

      Police responded by sending helecopters with thermal imagers around, looking for the substantial heat put out by a pot farm.

      This is the reason for one well-publicised incident in which a full armed response team was sent around to conduct a raid on a guina-pig shed, having first smashed the house door down and handcuffed the family. They did at least issue a formal apology for the mistake.

    7. Re:only going to get worse... by sFurbo · · Score: 3, Informative

      A freezer doesn't need to be on continously. In case of power outage, it takes a couple of days before the food in a full freezer starts to thaw. Now, of course, you don't want it to go anywhere near that, but waiting a couple of hours to turn on the compressor normally won't take the food out of the safe temperature zone. As the GGP put it, the smart meter wont demand that the freezer turns off, but will let it know that it would be appreciated if it did not turn on. The freezer can then decide whether it can wait, or whether it is so hot that it needs to turn on.

    8. Re:only going to get worse... by AlecC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      See previous response: the only suggestion is cutting margins from generous to good. Your freezer has masses of space "cold capacity". Most peaks are in the evening, and your car would be recharged by morning. Cutting the top 1% of peaks, using perhaps 10% of your car's battery 20 evenings a year, would be very valuable to utilities. Of course, you don't have to opt in.

      Your response is typically American - me, me, me, and damn the community, even if it is to my financial advantage to share. You have bought capacity you don't need, but you won't consider sharing it (for money) just in case you might on a rare occasion want to use it. I bought it, so it is mine not to use.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    9. Re:only going to get worse... by Dan+Ost · · Score: 4, Informative

      IP over power lines is a horrible idea! The noise it creates across multiple bands is, quite frankly, illegal. Vendors made promises about keeping the noise within certain limits and they failed across the board. That's why IP over power lines is almost completely gone now.

      The sad thing is that it took the HAMs pointing out the violations to get the authorities to act.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    10. Re:only going to get worse... by Stewie241 · · Score: 2

      Actually, we have an opt in program in our area where you can get a free fancy thermostat if you allow the hydro company to cycle down your air conditioner during peak demand. https://www.peaksaver.com/

      You might get some other benefit too. Now I always presumed the idea is that this is coordinated, so I assume it is designed such that if you have say 100 000 homes, you can cut air conditioner power use by 25% by cycling 25 000 homes off for 15 minutes at a time. That way, there is likely little perceived affect on home comfort but they can still better manage and flatten out power usage when necessary.

    11. Re:only going to get worse... by AlecC · · Score: 2

      The scheme would be opt-in, so you wouldn't have to do it. Peaks are often evening, so if you are not using your car that evening, it will be fully charged by morning. Likewise, afternoon air conditioning peaks are while people are sitting in offices, and can be topped up before going home time. it would only use at most the top 25% of your battery, so you would be 75% charged whenever you needed it. And if you had a sudden impulse journey, it is highly likely that 75% charge will do you. You might head out on an impulse to see a move five miles away, you are unlikely to do a hundred mile drive on an impulse. If you know you are going on a hundred mile journey soon, you can opt out and get a full charge.

      I don't know whether you have noticed it, but America is having economic problems at the moment. Building to satisfy peak demand would cost trillions and be incredibly inefficient. If you are going to spend that money, roads would be a better place to start. By definition, the last power station would only be needed for the peak minutes of the biggest surge of demand in the year. On the other hand, drivers will have spent a lot of money buying expensive battery storage which they use only a little bit of the time. There is a huge gap between sharing nothing and sharing so much that it actually causes problems. But people. particularly Americans, seem to hate the idea of sharing anything at all. Without asking what would be the /real/ inconvenience, how often it would be used, how much, how easy it is to opt out, you have a knee jerk response "it's mine - hands off".

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    12. Re:only going to get worse... by AlecC · · Score: 2

      Not if it doesn't go all the way down. Freezer motors don't work harder when they have to cool more, they work longer. They have only one speed, and are controlled by switching on and off. So your gas analogy applies here: cooling you don't do now, you can do later. But ti doesn't apply to electricity.

      The crucial difference with gas in your analogy is that gas can be stored - electricity cannot. I entirely agree that not buying gas on a particular day makes no difference - the gas sits in the tanks until you do buy it, at zero cost to the gas company, But shifting electricity from peak to baseload makes a huge difference to the company - like four or more times the price for the last kWatt at peak times compared to a baseload kWatt. (In the UK's "continuous auction" power market, the last kWatt has been known to go up to 100 times baseload at extreme peaks). If the electricity company could have a big tank of electrons which they charged up in baseload and discharged at peak, that would be fine - which is why they want to use car batteries for exactly that. But to provide that last kWatt of power they have to have a gas turbine generating system which sits idle for 99% of the time, coming on fast (which gas turbines do well) for the 1% peak load. What they want is to switch their peak load to low cost baseload nuclear (24 hr on/off time) or coal (3 hours on/off time) power stations.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    13. Re:only going to get worse... by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2

      If anything, one can actually argue that by letting a freezer's temp drift back up a bit during long off periods it would work slightly less hard on average since the mean temperature would be higher and therefore the mean heat diffusion rate smaller, all else being equal.

  3. Does this mean... by Genda · · Score: 4, Funny

    If I have a smart meter I could come home to my dog roasting away under the smoldering remains of his electric dog collar???

    Or Grampa break dancing because his pacemaker is trying to tap out the digits of the last hours power consumption???

    Eeeeewwwww!

    1. Re:Does this mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Daily Mail readers quickly make themselves known.

  4. Even better by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do not use wireless devices. Use cable connections in all that is possible.

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:Even better by Twinbee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wireless is the future for many apps - there's no turning back now. My mouse is (blissfully) wireless, and is my router, and hopefully the blasted sound lead will be in the future too (one can dream about the power lead).

      However what we do need are better standards, and/or an automated system where any communicating device can find space in the spectrum to signal. I'm not sure how trivial that is, but that would need standards as well. Problem is we need to work together and cooperate to set these standards.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    2. Re:Even better by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wireless is the future for many apps - there's no turning back now. My mouse is (blissfully) wireless,

      So is my keyboaaaaaaa&^&*!!

    3. Re:Even better by blackicye · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do not use wireless devices. Use cable connections in all that is possible.

      I usually tell this to my corporate and residential customers also, why would you want to go wireless when
      you can run everything wired, and have it running, cheaper, faster and more stably?

      The main reason they give is the unsightly wiring or additional trunking to the installation, the rest of the wiring is often concealed in their
      homes or offices and they didn't think to add Cat5E or Cat6 to their infrastructure when they renovated.

    4. Re:Even better by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 4, Funny

      hopefully the blasted sound lead will be in the future

      If only someone could come up with a way of transmitting audio via radio waves :p

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    5. Re:Even better by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wireless doesn't need to be the future for hospitals, where each patient is already at a station where all instruments can be connected - the beds are already getting smarter than my dog (although no one has taught a bed to fetch yet), it's only a matter of time before all SATs and monitoring instruments are built in.

    6. Re:Even better by andrewbaldwin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Off-topic but...

      I recall when wireless keyboards and mice first came out and one of our managers proudly bought a couple for the conference rooms to save unsightly wires.

      Unfortunately he left a spare set in an easily accessible position and, even worse, left them all on their default settings.

      When someone who's less than popular is presenting and people have a spare mouse tuned to the same channel you can imagine the fun to be had clicking their PowerPoint slides forward and backwards; even better when the culprits are outside the room.

      The fact that the victim had upset the manager concerned did nothing to help his attempts to get sympathy / retribution

    7. Re:Even better by Whalou · · Score: 2

      ROT13 is a weak form of encryption.

      --
      English is not this .sig mother tongue...
    8. Re:Even better by JustOK · · Score: 2

      I use ROT(-26)
      No one expects THAT.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    9. Re:Even better by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When your batteries go dead, and the interference levels rise, I will still be typing, mousing, and have my internet connection with bits of copper connecting them all together ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    10. Re:Even better by perryizgr8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      get this:http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Bluetooth-Headset-Detachable-Headphones/dp/B002NEMH6G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322137747&sr=8-1
      connect it to any pair of speakers you want. get audio from any bluetooth device. and the sound quality is almost indistinguishable from direct connection. also, similar stuff from jabra, etc sounds tinny.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    11. Re:Even better by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      That "wireless future" is running into wall of congestion very, very fast. Which is the entire point of the article.

      You have to remember, the basic premise of wireless is that it's as reliable as cable. When congestion hits, it won't be anymore. Which will bring cable as a vastly superior solution.

    12. Re:Even better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Can you come round and run some Cat5 from my bedroom to my living room and charge me nothing for the cable and trunking, and nothing for your time and expertise?

      No? So how is wired cheaper then?

      Especially in this context when we're talking about dropping in one black box to replace another, versus dropping in one black box to replace another, laying cables, trunking cables, possibly going into the ceiling or floor, and connecting those to *every plug socket in the house* so every device in the house can talk to the meter. And doing that for every home in a given service area. For every service area in the country.

      I guess your business is running cables, yes?

    13. Re:Even better by kqs · · Score: 2

      Where did you hear that? I've never heard "as reliable as cable" except from a few of my managers who should know better. The basic premise is "more convenient than cable" which it usually is.

    14. Re:Even better by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I usually tell this to my corporate and residential customers also, why would you want to go wireless when
      you can run everything wired, and have it running, cheaper, faster and more stably?

      I've paid for cable drops, and one cable drop costs more than one wireless router. Most devices seem to come with WiFi now, so that's the extent of the costs. For most people it will work fine and offers adequate security.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Even better by Stormthirst · · Score: 2

      The ball bearing is a perfect solution:
      1) It won't fail if there is a power cut
      2) It's incredibly cheap - it's a ball bearing and a couple of pieces of plastic after all
      3) There's no real way to interfere with it. If you really want to stop people messing with it with magnets use an aluminium or plastic sphere.

      Not sure why you would need much else.

    16. Re:Even better by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Multiple times a day when I play a full HD movie from the NAS.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:Even better by Tanktalus · · Score: 2

      Wireless for hardware where wireless make sense is one thing. Wireless for everything? Not so much. There is a place for wireless keyboard/mouse. But for the large majority of use cases I see, it doesn't. Why should you use a wireless keyboard/mouse on a desktop computer? I've hooked mine up to a USB hub, I have sufficient distance between me and my computer (it's in a different room from my monitor/keyboard/mouse). Most people don't keep their computer so far away. A friend hooked his computer up to his TV, and then put his keyboard/mouse on the table in front of his couch. Their cat would attack cables draped that long, and they'd trip on them, so that's fine. But for normal desktop use, or even hooking up to a laptop, usually wired is sufficient.

      Add to that cost of batteries - both economic and ecological - and I'm having a hard time understanding this wireless craze in this area.

      Tablets, smartphones, these I understand. Their use cases are small and portable, so needing a wire is counterproductive. Using a laptop over wireless, again, I understand that bit (but if you're going to set it up with a bigger keyboard/mouse, you're not using it on your lap anymore, the wire for the peripherals is unlikely to be a barrier to use).

      Wireless sound? I'm iffy on that. If it's broadcast sound (e.g., radio), even if it's just broadcast in your own house (central location to all parts of the house), that's one thing. But the surround sound system for your entertainment system? Not so much. The speakers still need power, they still need to be close to a power supply, and all of those power converters will merely increase inefficiencies. And it's not that hard, generally speaking, to string some speaker wire under baseboards and such.

      Smart meters? They already have a wired connection back to the control center: the power lines themselves. They should be using ethernet-over-power protocols to send back their information. This would have the added benefit of not requiring anyone to go wardriving to get within range of the transmitter to collect the data Google-style. There's no good reason for them to pollute the spectrum.

      As you probably can tell, my house is wired. Wireless is reserved for my laptop, tablet, and baby monitor. Smart meters should not interfere with that as far as I'm concerned.

    18. Re:Even better by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wired mice have a big advantage on an untidy desk. You never lose the mouse. As long as it's not so untidy you lose the computer it's plugged in to...

  5. Shielding by Konsalik · · Score: 2

    Try it, bitches.

    1. Re:Shielding by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Shielding doesn't work if the device needs an antenna to function. Wireless devices need their antenna's. These devices work on the same frequencies as wireless/bluetooth/micowaves/dect/alarms.
      "POE. Try it, bitches" would have been more appropriate. Assuming the transformers allow high frequency signals to pass, a relatively high power/low frequency/low bandwith (The supplier doesn't need to check your usage more frequently than once a year, multiplied by the amount of data (1K would easily be enough) multiplied by the amount of subscribers in the area) POE communications channel would let them check all the houses without driving a car through the neighbourhood at all.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    2. Re:Shielding by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 2

      I am sorry. I had the wrong acronym. I meant EOP: Ethernet Over Powerline.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  6. Why wireless???? by captainpanic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Smart meters control the power going to electrical devices... logically, these are part of the electric grid, and are connected to powerlines. Why not add another wire to carry the signal, if you need to build a bunch of powerlines anyway?

    1. Re:Why wireless???? by Hentes · · Score: 2

      Better yet, why not use the powerlines themselves.

    2. Re:Why wireless???? by Beriaru · · Score: 2

      Yeah, in Spain all the new meters have PLC implemented.

    3. Re:Why wireless???? by Zocalo · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are typically two parts to the meter. One that clips to the electrical powerline(s) near to where they come into the premises and another that displays the realtime power consumption. Since the former is typically in a closet and the latter placed somewhere it can be seen, there may be some distance between the two. That potentially makes running a cable a less than ideal solution, so the default solution seems to be to just go with wireless.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    4. Re:Why wireless???? by reboot246 · · Score: 2

      Electric meters are not the only meters being read by wireless. More and more gas meters are remotely read, and there isn't a wired option.

      Utility companies like reading meters from a distance because of the hassle customers give the meter readers. Biting dogs, locked gates, high fences, holly bushes, flower beds, all kinds of crap on the meter, etc., etc. are a PITA for meter readers.

      I'm not a meter reader. I check your gas service and meter for leaks. If I can't get to it because of a locked gate or a vicious dog, then you're on your own. I just write down why I can't check it and go on my merry way. See you in five years . . . . if you haven't blown up.

    5. Re:Why wireless???? by Smallpond · · Score: 2

      Electric meters are not the only meters being read by wireless. More and more gas meters are remotely read, and there isn't a wired option.

      Utility companies like reading meters from a distance because of the hassle customers give the meter readers. Biting dogs, locked gates, high fences, holly bushes, flower beds, all kinds of crap on the meter, etc., etc. are a PITA for meter readers.

      I'm not a meter reader. I check your gas service and meter for leaks. If I can't get to it because of a locked gate or a vicious dog, then you're on your own. I just write down why I can't check it and go on my merry way. See you in five years . . . . if you haven't blown up.

      Ultrasound in water pipes, maybe the same in gas pipes. Then just have one collection point for 4-5 houses. Still no reason to have wireless.

    6. Re:Why wireless???? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Better yet, why not use the powerlines themselves.

      Because BPL causes radio interference.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Why, just why!? by BenJury · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why do 'smart' meters need to broadcast anything? If they're planning on using these things to communicate to high power devices, or any electrical device, the damn things are already wired together. Use that.

    If we're talking meter reading, then use the mobile network. Powering up to send a text with the reading every 3 months isn't exactly a big deal and I'd imagine would be considerably cheaper than still having to send someone to each property.

    You really do have to wonder who comes up with these ideas...

    --
    Blatant Advert: Android Apps!
    1. Re:Why, just why!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If we're talking meter reading, then use the mobile network. Powering up to send a text with the reading every 3 months isn't exactly a big deal and I'd imagine would be considerably cheaper than still having to send someone to each property.

      The dumb meter I've just gotten here in Australia uses a mesh network to communicate with neighbouring meters. The meters report their own status every 15 minutes, and supposedly pass on status messages from surrounding meters until it reaches a central node for the area, which I haven't found yet. I haven't bothered to monitor the thing yet to see if it broadcasts continuously, or just for a burst every 15 minutes. Fortunately, the local meters are using 900MHz, so they don't interfere with my stuff, but the manufacturers data sheet lists 2.4GHz as another option. I imagine in countries where they haven't been given a free chunk of spectrum like they have been here, they're using 2.4GHz to save money.

      The reason for the every 15 minutes is that the usage total is timestamped, and some time in the future we'll be moved to a time of use tariff, which will be calculated for me. The meter, of course, can't show me peak/off-peak amounts, just a running total. Why would I need to know when I can just trust the power company to work it out for me?

      Of course, this is all based on the assumption that we "need" meters that are wirelessly networked. This seems to be one of those Great Assumptions that only the terminally stupid would dare to question, and thus there is no point in bothering to give an answer because we wouldn't understand it anyway. Pay no attention to the naked emperor walking down there street there.

    2. Re:Why, just why!? by swalve · · Score: 2

      For efficient grid utilization and efficient generation utilization. Suppose you have 100 homes on one grid segment. Suppose the air conditioner has a 33% duty cycle and draws 20 amps when it is on. In order to not have the wires catch fire, you need to make sure the wires can carry 2000 amps. Worst case, 33% of the time, they have to feed that neighborhood 2000 amps, and nothing 66% of the time. By taking control of the high-load devices, they can spread out the duty cycles and make sure only a third of the houses are running at any one time. It is way easier to feed 667 amps to a neighborhood constantly than it is to have to vary between 0 and 2000.

      Same thing happens on the generation side. The smoother the curve of draw is, the cheaper it is to generate the power. Put very simply, they have base load and peak loads. Base load is the lowest draw on the system, and they generate that with nuke/coal/hydro plants. Those are very hard to quickly vary the output. Then they have peaker plants that run on diesel or natgas. Those plants can vary their generation easily, but they are expensive to run. They watch the voltage on the line and compensate their generation to keep the voltage right. So, if the generation company can tighten the gap between base load and peak load, they can run the peaker plants less often and generate cleaner power, more cheaply.

  8. Smart Meters by thejynxed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These things are about as useful as tits on a lawnmower. The meters can't even record accurate use if your house wiring is over 20 years old. The power company where I live is having fits because not a single one of the smart meters they installed in the historic district of the town where I live (and I live in this district) is recording accurate consumption. They've found meters read 1kWh for an entire week. In an apartment building with 6 apartments. To be fair, the wiring is about ancient in these buildings. Some of it has cloth coverings. The fuse boxes in most of them still use the old "stick" fuses made out of waxed paper, etc, etc, etc. Breaker boxes? WHO NEEDS THOSE :P

    Also of note: the historic district rules prevent people like the power company from installing more than a single meter per standing structure. This makes tenants very happy, as that means each and every single apartment in the district is "utilities included" when it comes to rent.

    --
    @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    1. Re:Smart Meters by perryizgr8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      how does old wiring hamper the ability of the meter to measure power usage? seems like something else is going on.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    2. Re:Smart Meters by mangu · · Score: 2

      The meters can't even record accurate use if your house wiring is over 20 years old. ... They've found meters read 1kWh for an entire week.

      Metering has nothing to do with the age of the wiring. If what you said is true it only means the meter is being bypassed by some parallel wiring.

  9. Re:Not so smart by Stormthirst · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a surprise when it can bought and sold like a company on the stock exchange.

  10. Electric pet fences by 1s44c · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd never heard of electric pet fences before. You Americans scare me.

    1. Re:Electric pet fences by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its a common enough tool for people who are to lazy to properly train their pet. The version I know is a wire in the ground that sends a low power radio signal and a collar that detects if it crosses the wire. If it does the pet gets a small electric shock.
      In my vieuw (and I have trained a dog to stay inside my parent's garden) this can't be a good thing: the dog gets punished without a clear reason (lazy people didn't take the time to make it clear to the dog it can't go into their flowerbeds). This can wreak havoc on the dog's simple "psyche": I'd expect some to grow fearfull of everything, some to grow extremely viscious and some to go completely beserk.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    2. Re:Electric pet fences by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They are not too lazy. They are too stupid. Likely, the same people are also the ones who oppose the U.N Convention of the Rights of the Child (ratified by every country except the U.S.A. and Somalia) because they need to beat the fear of God into their kids.

    3. Re:Electric pet fences by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's more humane than the machine gun pet fences...

      I have had to re purchase far less yorkies and pomeranians with the electric ones, and the neighbors don't complain about the sound of the automatic weapon fire any more. Note: short hair breeds do not catch fire as easy as long hair breeds do.

      But I do miss the sound of, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, YIEEE!, at night as each neighbors dog fence was to go off spraying 5.56 rounds all over the yards to encourage their dog to stay away from the sidewalk.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. Smart Meters != Energy Monitors by Jagen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Firstly a lot of people in here seem to be confusing Smart Meters with Energy Monitors. The former replaces the old dial meter and it supposed to communicate with other meters in the area and/or directly with the energy supplier for billing and better tracking of consumption.

    Energy Monitors are those devices which clamp around lines by your meter and communicate to a box in your house giving you an idea of your realtime energy use.

  12. Re:2.4GHz? by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why would 'smart' meters not use SMS or something similar? Whatever 'green' imperative has these meters requiring more than that is a fail, by definition.

    This is an obvious and sensible solution. I expect that the reason comes down to mobile operators wanting to charge electric companies too much to use the service.

  13. Re:Have to feed trolls sometimes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    But a fire would create carbon emissions and also produce infrared radiation, and radiation causes cancer!

  14. Just a variant... by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...of a problem that was first noted in the mid 1980s and termed "electronic smog" but the most general term is RFI and dates back as far radio systems in general. Not only do signals interfere with each other, but signals will interfere with ANY electronic device where pins or wires are capable of acting as a dipole. It's unusual for a machine to get scrambled due to an electronic can opener, but if said devices are improperly shielded, it is inevitable.

    In the case of wireless devices, you obviously can't shield the antenna. Well, not if you want it to still work. Provided interference is randomish and not overwhelming, AND provided all devices are based on packet communications, a device will be capable of repairing packets and identifying if they're intended for that device.

    The first problem is that many electronic devices don't give a damn about power levels beyond being low enough to not be the target of FCC ire. The second problem is that older devices especially are NOT packet based. This means that such devices can't tell if stray signals are intended for them or not. Anything that merely detects the presence of a signal won't care if that signal is a door-opener or a WoW session.

    It would be good if transmitters/receivers were a bit more directional - a garage door probably shouldn't be looking for signals coming from the neighbor's house. A door opener can afford to be very direct, since you want to open your door and nobody else's. A smart meter is designed to transmit to the road, so again it can be extremely directional. Directional transmitters and receivers mean less power is needed for the same signal strength received AND less interference off those directions.

    Medical devices, except when ABSOLUTELY necessary, should NEVER be wireless. The risk of RFI is way too high and the consequences of an error are far too severe. Wireless is also lower bandwidth, which places hard limits on the kinds of sensors it's useful for and also hard limits on what innovations can be made to medical sensor technology. Inside of a hospital room, I can't think of a single use for wireless devices where wired would not be superior in every respect.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Just a variant... by dkf · · Score: 3, Informative

      Medical devices, except when ABSOLUTELY necessary, should NEVER be wireless.

      Where the device is designed to be embedded in someone's body, it absolutely SHOULD be wireless since that allows it to be used without having to route a wire past the skin. RFI is not nearly as big a problem as infection...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  15. It's not really a big deal. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I fire up my 13cm amateur radio gear, I obliterate everything that uses 2.4GHz wireless for a mile or two radius until I'm done transmitting.

    Don't like it? Then make sure your filthy unlicensed ISM gear has adequate filtering. Oh, you bought the cheapest crappiest wifi card you could find? Sucks to be you.

    1. Re:It's not really a big deal. by AdamJS · · Score: 2

      If you're willingly and knowingly disrupting communications and computer devices for people in your area, especially when a lot of them simply might not be able to afford "good gear", then you're just being a dick.

      Unless you're actively listening for such complaints and doing something to help said people or mitigate your impact, in which case, I handily withdraw my criticism.

    2. Re:It's not really a big deal. by SuperQ · · Score: 2

      Yup, ham radio is legally granted a PRIMARY license for the lower half of the 2.4ghz ISM band. The ISM users of this spectrum are SECONDARY. This means that the ISM users must ALWAYS give way to the ham users.

  16. Re:2.4GHz? by inasity_rules · · Score: 4, Informative

    Money(SMS is extreme expensive comparatively). Latency. SMS delivery is not guaranteed by most networks. A number of other issues. Recently some of our customers decided they wanted to use our smart metering OPC server over GPRS. It is still not working (APN issues with the cell phone network), slow, and generally a pain. I'd much rather have the meters on 5GHz wifi. Even worse was the customer that tried to use 9600bps GSM. It cost them a fortune until they turned it off. And don't even talk to me about Power-Line transmission. I may kill you.

    --
    I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
  17. Re:Not so smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What does this have to do with FCC being bought, lobbied, etc? This is the fault of wireless device manufacturers choosing a crowded band to put their devices on. The FCC explicitly lays out the rules for devices on this particular band saying that nobody has rights over others using it.

  18. Re:Not so smart by KXeron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is that spectrum is up for sale, aside from governmental implementations, there really isn't "open spectrum" for specific classes of devices unless a manufacturer has a monopoly on that area of spectrum AND type of devices. Spectrum is either assigned to organizations based off of money (auctions), or it is put up as a "free-for-all", which results in either underutilized or overcrowded communications.

    I bet if the FCC started allocating specific spectrum to specific industries (not organizations) the interference could drop quite quickly.

  19. Re:Not so smart by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Says the man that knows nothing at all about RF energy or FCC Type certification.

    If a device FAILS because of interference then the manufacturer made a giant steaming POS. Because the FCC certification for that type states clearly.

    the Device MUST accept any and all interference.

    Blame the moron RF engineers at GE,Sony,Panasonic,LG,etc... for using the china cheap RF modules instead of designing their own RF stage in house.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  20. Re:Not so smart by citizenr · · Score: 2

    sooo, how did those things pass FCC testing?

    --
    Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
  21. Re:Not so smart by rioki · · Score: 2

    I think by "failing" it is rather meant "No connection". The big hype in medical applications are wireless systems where the sensing device is decoupled form the monitoring device. This works well for one device, but in a crowed hospital you start to get to a saturation point. Does not help that they use off the shelf wireless telephones are cheap "mobile" intercoms. Maybe a few cables where wireless is not a requirement might help allot; but that what I say about my home IT infrastructure too. I will always run a cable if that is feasible, than use a wireless link. I can sense 11 wireless networks in my apartment...

  22. Re:Not so smart by neokushan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    By not shitting all over adjacent spectrums. They all operate within the 2.4Ghz range and they can do whatever they want within that range as long as they don't mess up nearby parts of the spectrum. There are other regulations as well, such as power output that are part of the FCC rules but that's it. These smart meters are probably within spec but hogging the whole spectrum all the same.

    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  23. Re:Not so smart by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Better design and manufacturing will help, but at some point we're simply running out of room in a given slice of spectrum. More complex modulation schemes, better-engineered RF stages, and things like TDMA and CDMA, along with more computing power, have resulted in huge improvements in efficient spectrum usage over the past few decades. But we're probably getting close to the limit of what can be done to shoehorn more data into a given bandwidth. Even if consumers are willing, (or forced), to pay more for better hardware, that only postpones the problem for a little while.

    Additionally, although the FCC says a device "must accept any and all interference", it does NOT say it "must accept any and all interference AND CONTINUE TO FUNCTION TO THE USER'S SATISFACTION". The FCC may have the power of law, but it has no power over the laws of physics.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  24. This is a problem by Murdoch5 · · Score: 2

    The issues is that the frequency bands we use day to day aren't separated enough. A few years ago trying to cram 10 devices in the 2.4 GHz spectrum inside a house was fine but now everything and your grandmothers rolling pill is broadcasting over 2.4 GHz. Newer routers are going into the 5 GHz band but it's not really a great solution.

    The problem with everything using the 2.4 GHz band is that almost no devices are smart about how they make sure of that band. This is a problem we deal with a lot when it comes to sensitive embedded systems. You need to make sure that the signal you want isn't the raw signal you send, you need to encapsulate the single into a modulated and coded scheme. Using techniques like:

    Channel Coding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_code
    Phase Modulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_modulation

    The more "secure" or encoded the signal the smaller the chance that any other signal will play off it and alter the key data. Now I'm not saying that this is a perfect solution but it is a start to smart design. Amount several other option such as not letting your embedded solution be sensitive to every other signal in the air. I know there are FCC regulations and all that jazz around this but it still all boils down to smart design. As more and more devices are occupying the 2.4 GHz band smarter and smarter encoding methods are going to have to be taken into practice, this might even boil down to editing the FCC regulations on wireless devices.. I would hate to think my wireless pacemaker is going to short out because my gas meter wanted to log 1 KilloWatt.

    If anyone is interested it's a good idea to read:

    http://wireless.fcc.gov/index.htm?job=rules_and_regulations

  25. Re:Not so smart by KUHurdler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd be curious what smart meter provider they use. While there are some very sophisticated/expensive models, most of them only send very short data bursts every 15 or 30 minutes. Because of this, I suspect this article is just another consumer-paranoia attempt to blame smart meters for anything they can think of.

    --
    Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
  26. Re:Not so smart by skids · · Score: 3

    Even if consumers are willing, (or forced), to pay more for better hardware, that only postpones the problem for a little while.

    Except that the perfectly usable 5GHz spectrum which the cheap-asses who make gadgets and lowball consumers who buy them seem to ignore entirely has enough non-interfering channel space to make that "little while" into a matter of a decade or two.

  27. Re:2.4GHz? by cr0nj0b · · Score: 2

    Because smart meters are probably using some sort of zigbee or other 802.15.4. It makes sense for smart meters to run in a mesh. That way they do not have to have direct connection to the data collection unit. They can use the mesh network to hop over multiple nodes to get the data to where it needs to go.

  28. Re:Gentoo?? by danomac · · Score: 3, Funny

    Considering your machine will be compiling 90% of the time, it won't affect you much at all.

  29. Re:Not so smart by travisco_nabisco · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to BC Hydro, the new smart meters we are getting only broadcast twice a day with each broadcast being less than 30 sec. I have no reason to not believe them, and have not had any wireless device issues in the 4 months since my neighbor hood got the smart meters. I suspect there are a lot of different models with a lot of different broadcast patterns and levels which makes this article way to general to be of any true use.

  30. Re:Not so smart by MikeBabcock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you actually fail to understand the concept of interference. Hardware that isn't physically damaged in any way by the interference and goes on with its day still may not be able to maintain a high enough S/N ratio to function as the user desires.

    --
    - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  31. Re:Not so smart by Garybaldy · · Score: 2

    Well 2.4 is not up for sale. It is a "relatively" worthless band. Due to it being on the edge of the interference caused by microwaves.

  32. Re:Not so smart by St.Creed · · Score: 2

    I think the name should have tipped you off :)

    --
    Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
  33. Re:Not so smart by bws111 · · Score: 2

    FCC certification does not mean the devices should be able to cope. The line 'the device must accept any and all interference' means 'it is not the FCC's problem if this device operating in unlicensed spectrum is interfered with'.

  34. Re:Not so smart by bws111 · · Score: 2

    That line does not mean what you think it does. It means that you can not complain to the FCC about interference with the device, not that the device must continue operating normally. That is as opposed to licensed spectrum, where you CAN complain to the FCC if you are interfered with.

  35. Re:Not so smart by thegarbz · · Score: 2

    Initial accuracy of the chinese multimeters are good. I have both. For the Fluke there's more to it than just a name. They have much faster update rates, their least significant digit is actually worth being displayed on the screen, and most importantly they seem to hold their calibration over a wider range of temperatures and for longer.

    At my work they have someone come in and calibrate our equipment 6 monthly. My Fluke meter typically comes back with "no change" written on the test cert, and my Protek has some significant number if you're doing any kind of precise measurements.

    Mind you for the home the cheap chinese ones are fantastic.