Restaurants Plan DNA-Certified Seafood Program

FooGoo me! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 11:39 · Score: 5, Funny

I hate it when I pay top dollar for blue whale and they serve me inferior dolphin.

Re:FooGoo me! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 12:29 · Score: 1

I hate it when I pay top dollar for blue whale and they serve me inferior dolphin.
Pffft. I all tastes like chicken.
Re:FooGoo me! by cvtan · 2011-11-27 12:37 · Score: 1

or panda.

--
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Re:FooGoo me! by stanlyb · 2011-11-27 12:44 · Score: 1

You better thank god that they don't sell you GMO blue whale, crossed with snake,bee and cockroach...
Re:FooGoo me! by masternerdguy · 2011-11-27 12:48 · Score: 1

I hate it when I pay top dollar for blue whale and they serve me inferior dolphin.
Pffft. I all tastes like chicken.
Good to know you taste like chicken.

--
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
Re:FooGoo me! by reasterling · 2011-11-27 13:08 · Score: 1

That is just because the machines didn't know what chicken taste like.

--
"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" -- God
Re:FooGoo me! by madmarcel · 2011-11-27 15:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Actually...that 'fish' in your sushi...is not what you think it is...
"report on genetic identification of ‘whale meat’ purchased in sushi restaurants in Los Angeles, CA (USA)"
http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/04/08/rsbl.2010.0239.full
You can submit a DNA sample online to identify the 'fish' in your sushi :D
http://www.dna-surveillance.auckland.ac.nz/
Plenty of evidence out there that whale and dolphin meat from endangered species is sold as 'fish' both in Japan and exported to various countries in the world.
Re:FooGoo me! by sco08y · 2011-11-27 16:25 · Score: 2

Fuck you whale, and fuck you dolphin!
Re:FooGoo me! by NiceGeek · 2011-11-27 17:21 · Score: 1

This seems a little fishy to me. I can readily identify any sushi that is presented to me. Tuna, salmon, eel, etc. are all very distinctive in both taste, color and texture.
Re:FooGoo me! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 23:10 · Score: 1

I was involved with that web site. Some of us would go to Japan and set up equipment in the hotel room and submit DNA sequences (mitochondria Control region). We did find blue whale once even. And many other animals they claim they don't catch and sell. Japan is the worst offender at not sticking with any basic regulation regarding international fishing treaties. For example they often fish within NZ economic waters, without permits or quota.

Needless to say that the web site was the target of a lot of hacking attacks and the odd DDS attack. Not that it did them any good. Slackware for the win! Oh and we where so close to a back bone link that even DDS where not very effective.

Anyway if we are finding in fish markets....then somebody is buying it.
Re:FooGoo me! by Tomato42 · 2011-11-28 00:11 · Score: 1

No, no, he tastes like pork. True story.

And so comes the market... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 11:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

...for intentionally mislabeled "certified" seafood, sold at five times the price of the regular mislabeled seafood. Just like the claims of "organic" vegetables, I won't believe a word of it unless the seafood I'm buying is still intact and clearly recognizable.

Re:And so comes the market... by Ethanol-fueled · 2011-11-27 11:54 · Score: 4, Interesting

The food scene is like the art scene, it's full of pretentious yuppies saying shit like, "I love dungfish gonads, the texture is so ethereal it dances across my palate like Penn State football coaches dance around the allegations..." Of course they only believe that because they're parroting it word-for-word from the last restaurant review, every time they recommend dungfish gonads to their friends.

More to the point, fishes that were once considered garbage bait fish, like squid, are now haute cuisine and are on every damn menu. Salmon eggs are often sold as fish-bait, but you put 'em on sushi and their worth is jacked up by hundreds of percents.
Re:And so comes the market... by houstonbofh · 2011-11-27 12:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

I know what country you live in... Squid has been a delicacy for the rest of the world for years. I remember a Portuguese Restaurant with a squid body stuffed with mixed seafood in a cream sauce. It was amazing. Watch "Fear Factor" some time with a world traveler. They will laugh out loud with the "Food Challenges."
Re:And so comes the market... by Dogbertius · 2011-11-27 12:15 · Score: 4, Funny

When I was visiting in Italy, we watched a parody of Fear Factor where people had to eat american fast food. A bit overdone, but still funny.
Re:And so comes the market... by Fluffeh · 2011-11-27 12:16 · Score: 4, Informative

More to the point, fishes that were once considered garbage bait fish, like squid, are now haute cuisine and are on every damn menu. Salmon eggs are often sold as fish-bait, but you put 'em on sushi and their worth is jacked up by hundreds of percents.
Different fish (and food in general for that matter) have always been a rather location specific taste. In many parts of Europe, Cod is considered very good eating, yet here in Australia it is considered rubbish. Kippers (especially smoked) are good eating in Britain, but you can't get them in many parts of the world. Eastern Europeans (and a few other European countries like Germany and Belgium and Norway) love smoked and pickled Herring. Aside from a few measily jars in the back isle of a supermarket it is almost impossible to find outside of there. The Russians have always loved caviar.
It isn't so much that what was once rubbish is now considered fine dining, but rather that due to multiculturalism, many foods that were once unpopular in a foreign country are being driven by populations that are made up of many more nationalities.

--
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
Re:And so comes the market... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2011-11-27 12:41 · Score: 1

Normally I'd agree but given that there are some practical reasons to make sure you're eating one thing but not another...

--
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Re:And so comes the market... by PCM2 · 2011-11-27 12:41 · Score: 5, Informative

It isn't so much that what was once rubbish is now considered fine dining, but rather that due to multiculturalism, many foods that were once unpopular in a foreign country are being driven by populations that are made up of many more nationalities.
Actually, it's not so much about "fine dining" as the cycle of once-populous varieties being overfished almost to the point of extinction, forcing the mass-market fisheries to switch to different kinds of fish. The orange roughy craze of a few years ago was a fine example. You wouldn't have seen orange roughy on menus in the 70s or earlier; it's a variety of fish commonly called a "slimehead," and it's really ugly-looking, something like an angler fish. It also doesn't taste like much. That's why they marketed it as a "fine dining" fish, even though it's pretty easy to catch in huge amounts by deep trawling -- because they needed to trump up some reason why you'd actually eat it. Explain away that bland taste as "subtle, delicately flavored flesh," ship the fish to stores already filleted (so the customer never sees the whole fish), and never mention the word "slimehead," and it becomes the new market darling. Of course, as it turned out, orange roughy can live for over 100 years and they don't even begin breeding until they're 20 or 30, so they're incredibly susceptible to overfishing. Hence why you hardly ever see this "miracle fish" on menus anymore;10-15 years into the "craze" and the supplies are already dangerously depleted. On to the next fish.

--
Breakfast served all day!
Re:And so comes the market... by TapeCutter · 2011-11-27 12:54 · Score: 3, Funny

I'll have you know I was eating squid stuffed with dungfish gonads WAY before it became trendy!

--
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Re:And so comes the market... by Centurix · 2011-11-27 14:28 · Score: 3, Informative

I've been fishing for over 30 years and I can taste the difference between Whiting caught off the Brisbane Bar and Whiting caught further up the sunshine coast. It's subtle, but environment always plays a major role.
Just on a side note, most Australian Cod don't belong to the Gadus genus, they're closer to perciformes. So they're not really Cod. From memory, they collectively get called Cod, like Murray Cod. You're right though, terrible eating.

--
Task Mangler
Re:And so comes the market... by TheGratefulNet · 2011-11-27 14:43 · Score: 1

I don't know.... right now, I'm dreaming of what it would be like to add that orange roughy thing to a turducken.
now THAT's good eating!

--

--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:And so comes the market... by demonlapin · 2011-11-27 15:57 · Score: 1

I once read, though I have absolutely no way of verifying it, that lobster was in this category for ages - servants' contracts in New England specified that they were not to be served lobster more than X times a week.

As for me, I believe the most underrated food on the planet is a good peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Strawberry or apricot preserves, for preference.
Re:And so comes the market... by Sulphur · 2011-11-27 16:10 · Score: 2

I don't know.... right now, I'm dreaming of what it would be like to add that orange roughy thing to a turducken.
now THAT's good eating!
If you add ham to a turducken, then is it a hamsturducken. /ducks
Re:And so comes the market... by Lord+Kano · 2011-11-27 17:38 · Score: 2

...for intentionally mislabeled "certified" seafood, sold at five times the price of the regular mislabeled seafood. Just like the claims of "organic" vegetables, I won't believe a word of it unless the seafood I'm buying is still intact and clearly recognizable.
I have a couple of friends and relatives who are on that organic foods kick. I tell them, that there used to be a time when all of the food was organically grown and had no pesticides, additives or preservatives. The average life expectancy was under 30. Fuck that, I'll take my chances with GM foods.
LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:And so comes the market... by demonlapin · 2011-11-27 17:57 · Score: 1

And those of us who actually used the Internet before Google know that you can't really trust random shit you read on the Internet. Cute story, do the primary research yourself if you care whether or not it's true.
Re:And so comes the market... by curious.corn · 2011-11-27 18:36 · Score: 1

You're making a fallacious syllogism; life expectancy has increased due to better sanitation, improved medical techniques, and workplace security, not industrialization of food manufacturing. It may very well be, although difficult to prove, that we haven't reaped all the possible increase in life expectancy, because of the worsening quality of our food sources. As an European, my mind immediately goes to the obesity epidemic in the US...

--
Mi domando chi Ã il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
Re:And so comes the market... by ChromeAeonium · 2011-11-27 19:08 · Score: 1

I can sympathize with that. I tell people this: organic food is dogma. Sure, you could cite the studies showing that organic food is not all it is cracked up to be (though for every one of these the Rodale Institute or some other usually well connected group makes another saying just the opposite), or show the successes of modern agricultural science, It isn't science, it isn't reason, it is appeal to nature, technophobic, nonsense. Yes, there are good things in organic production practices, like how we need to pay greater attention to soil flora, better implementation of biodiversity (both inter- and extra-species), and the use of biological controls (like using predatory insects or mating disruptors). But at the same time, it doesn't matter how safe (to your health or the environment) or sustainable any given thing is, if the big cheeses who law down the organic standards deem it unnatural, then you can't use it. That's just idiotic. If you find some way to produce a pesticide very safely, very cheaply, and without using much resources, then test it and find it does no damage to people and has very little impact on the environment, sane people would think that's great. But you could never use in in organic. You could, however, use the sap extracted from some toxic twig. Make no mistake, they DO use pesticides on organic food. Some of them are quite nasty, and because they don't work as well as conventional pesticides, may need sprayed more. So an efficient well studied pesticide is rejected in favor of one that is more harmful and less well studied just because it is natural. That I think is just dumb.
Fun fact: if you eat your daily recommended amount of conventionally grown fruits & veges, you'll get about 1500 mg of toxic, dangerous, poisonous, pesticides, some of which can kill you in sufficient quantities. Oh no, how could those bastards at the FDA (or whatever your local regulatory body is) allow us to be poisoned like this? Well, that 1500 mg? All natural, produced in the plant, by the plant, for the plant. Less that 1 mg of that comes from synthetic pesticide sprays. A few orders of magnitude less, ooh, scary. Anyway, because of things like this, if we were to go all organic, we'd either have to have sever billion people disappear, or cut down one crapload of rainforest and jungle to make up for it (as in, we'd need more than we actually have). In fact, if we were farming with techniques form last century, we'd have to do that too. If you've ever seen a forest, thank those big bad chemical pesticides and fertilizers. The inefficiency of organic is anything but environmentally friendly, and if is were to somehow expand too dramatically, it would be ecological suicide (not that that will ever happen because pesticides look a lot nicer when you're hungry).
And by the way, conventional agriculture doesn't limit itself. It doesn't say 'Oh, the organic people advocate crop rotation and to-till methods, so I won't use those.' The reason your average farmer wouldn't say something like that is because they're not morons, and indeed, both of those so-called organic techniques are regularly used by the big so-called industrial farmers. And then the anti-technology anti-science thing, ugh. Genetically modified food is safe. There have been hundreds of studies on that, a vast scientific consensus backing it, I mean, it is baffling that this is still up for debate. Yet organic rejects genetic engineering, when the GE crops used have cut pesticide use, the no-till methods they've facilitated have prevented erosion to the soil which in tern prevents fertilizer runoff into aquatic environments, and have been found to be safer (less insect holes in your corn means less fungal infection which means less mycotoxins). They saved the Hawaiian papaya industry, in fact, while the organic promoters are blathering on about how genetic engineering doesn't work, the organic growers were planting rows of the GE papayas around their fields because the GE ones kept out the papaya ringspot virus
Re:And so comes the market... by zephvark · 2011-11-27 19:33 · Score: 1

Uni is wonderful. Dingy grime, eh? I'm baffled.
If your brie tastes of ammonia, it's gone bad. This is definitely a problem with American supermarkets, you can never tell how long they've been holding the stuff or under what conditions.
Perhaps you should not be buying these at Wal-Mart.
Re:And so comes the market... by ChromeAeonium · 2011-11-27 19:45 · Score: 1

Well, there is some truth to the idea. Before our modern food system, the one the organic advocates seem to so resent, famine and malnutrition were not uncommon (in too much of the world, they still are).. Food poisoning gets a bit more complected because if you're eating relatively fresh from a system that doesn't give any chance for cross contamination, you've got lower odds, but if you've got food stored, then you're going to want some sort of preservative. Food additives could go either way, since some additives like iodine in salt and folic acid in bread. I don't see additive as a group as going one way or the other since just about anything could be an additive. But anyway, an abundance of food provided by modern agricultural practices (not whatever organic is offering) certainty contributed to longer lifespans.
When you say 'worsening quality of our food sources' then I'd ask what you mean by that. If you mean the fact that people think food comes out of a box or a can, and no one views plants as food, then yeah, that's a problem. Sodas, way too much meat, greasy fried everything, sugary processed cakes and candies and other things with transfats, and high fructose corn syrup in everything because our government subsidized corn, ect., then absolutely. That is a problem here in the US. Not enough emphasis on the basics, on simple fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, herbs & spices. Everything has a brand name and a labeled package.
On the other hand, if you're talking about the 'organic food vs non-organic food' thing mentioned higher up on the thread, like the notion that there's a problem with using pesticides and herbicides and genetically engineered crops and artificial hormones and all that, then you're absolutely wrong. Those are all useful tools, the danger of which has been either fabricated or grossly overblown. I'm glad my country uses those things and lament the lack of understanding of agricultural science that has caused them to become 'controversial.'. I assume that since you say you're a European (based on your sig, Italian?) you hear people hating on those sorts of things a lot (then again, the same is largely true here in the US, but I get the perception that public opinions are even worse in Europe), but for food and agricultural issues it is Europe that has the higher percent of people who are on the wrong side of science.
Re:And so comes the market... by Tomato42 · 2011-11-28 00:15 · Score: 1

You mean deep fried mars bars aren't the stuff nightmares are made of anywhere else?
Re:And so comes the market... by advocate_one · 2011-11-28 02:25 · Score: 1

same in the coffee world with things like Kopi Luwak and Monsooned Malabar and don't get me started on just how pretentious espresso snobs can get...

--
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Re:And so comes the market... by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:37 · Score: 1

You will find even more of the crappy stuff that used to be considered garbage will become more and more trendy and popular. As the real goodd stuff runs out they are forced to move the marketing goalposts.

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Re:And so comes the market... by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:41 · Score: 1

Perhaps you should not be buying these at Wal-Mart.
He doesn't. They come free with a tank at gas'n'gulp

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Re:And so comes the market... by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:42 · Score: 1

Madoff probably still eats lobster every day

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Re:And so comes the market... by Capt.+Skinny · 2011-11-28 14:16 · Score: 1

Lobster was absolutely in this category. When my grandmother was a child in the 30's 40's, families hard up for food would collect lobsters that washed up on shore. After eating, they would bury the shells in their yard to prevent neighbors from seeing or smelling the evidence in garbage cans, such was the embarrassment of eating lobster.

hmm by nomadic · 2011-11-27 11:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

Personally I think we should encourage counterfeit seafood; for example, find an indistinguishable but sustainable substitute for shark fin and that's a good thing, I won't lose any sleep over social-climbing Chinese middle class consumers thinking they're buying genuine shark fins when they're not.

Re:hmm by Hentes · 2011-11-27 12:14 · Score: 1

The problem is that the substitute was toxic.
Re:hmm by nomadic · 2011-11-27 12:35 · Score: 1

You don't need DNA testing to measure for toxicity.
Re:hmm by artor3 · 2011-11-27 12:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

People deserve to know what they're paying for. You open the door to all sorts of abuses otherwise.
Re:hmm by Ethanol-fueled · 2011-11-27 12:52 · Score: 3, Informative

The people preparing the fish should have known better. The problem is that the monkfish liver (known as "ankimo" in Japanese) is often referred to as the "foie gras" of the sea, and is prepared in a similar manner to its landlocked analog.

The liver(and gonads, and other organs) of the pufferfish("Fugu" in Japanese), in contrast, are highly toxic and are the reason why only skilled chefs should prepare it.
It's like going to a bar expecting to be served with Ethyl Alcohol and instead being served with Methyl alcohol. That extra "M" stands for "murder."
Re:hmm by Qzukk · 2011-11-27 13:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Of course not, you just have to test "monkfish" for pufferfish poison. While you're at it, you should test it to make sure it doesn't have stonefish poison, lion-fish venom, Kyphosus fuscus "dreamfish" hallucinogens, or any of the other millions of poisons out there nature invented to kill you.
Or, you could test to make sure your "monkfish" is monkfish.

--
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Re:hmm by nomadic · 2011-11-27 13:34 · Score: 1

On a moral level, conservation of endangered species takes higher priority.
Re:hmm by formfeed · 2011-11-27 14:00 · Score: 3, Funny

Personally I think we should encourage counterfeit seafood
Counterfeit seafood?
Could I interest you in delicious green patties, that are algae based, and definitely not made from anything else?
Re:hmm by flimflammer · 2011-11-27 15:54 · Score: 1

That's an amazingly slippery slope you have there. You actually think it makes more sense to keep something legal and let companies lie about what they're selling you than to just ban the sale of it?
What happens when your substitute kills someone allergic to it? Who takes the blame?
Re:hmm by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:45 · Score: 1

I prefer a good aged ketone myself

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

illegally imported pufferfish that had been mislab by mapkinase · 2011-11-27 11:52 · Score: 1

Problem is "illegally imported pufferfish that had been mislabeled as monkfish" ("poor man's lobster,")

Translating: problem is vanity masqueraded as "pursuit of happiness".

--
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.

what good is DNA for food testing by FudRucker · 2011-11-27 11:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

between the Gulf of Mexico BP oil spill, Fukushima disaster, and untold other spills and illegal dumping in to the ocean i no longer trust seafood from any part of the ocean anymore, i hold no grudge against the seafood industry because it is not their fault that the ocean is where all the pollution eventually ends up since both shit and water flows down hill. i feel bad for both them and the ocean and those that like seafood (i like seafood) but the ocean i feel is no longer safe to eat from...

--
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing

Re:what good is DNA for food testing by nomadic · 2011-11-27 11:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

The seafood industry gets plenty of blame for the state of the oceans, so I would not give them any sympathy.
Re:what good is DNA for food testing by Osgeld · 2011-11-27 12:20 · Score: 2

yes its not their fault what so ever as millions of rusting, smoking, oil leaking fishing boats head out to spew diesel directly into the water every single day as they dragnet every single thing from a hundreds of square miles.
Re:what good is DNA for food testing by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:49 · Score: 1

I don't eat seafood at all for the same reasons you lack trust in it. You would have to a moron to eat anything that came out of the ocean.

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Re:what good is DNA for food testing by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:50 · Score: 1

could you please stop breathing it would be helpful to all of us

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

What by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 11:56 · Score: 2, Funny

There's DNA in my fish? Disgusting! What is wrong with this country?!

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by lucifuge31337 · 2011-11-27 11:57 · Score: 2

You damn well know what he is talking about. Claiming something was raised "organically" in the popularly understood sense of the word is quite profitable to abuse due to the fact that many people will pay more for it.

--
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.

Maybe this is a bad thing by Improv · 2011-11-27 12:08 · Score: 1, Interesting

If you can't tell the difference, and arn't refraining from something for ethical/religious reasons, why does it matter? Whether you tell me that food is a delicacy from France or it's from down the street, it's going to taste the same to me. Either I'll like it or I won't. Stop worrying about this authenticity crap. You can't brand fish that way.

--
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.

Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by TubeSteak · 2011-11-27 12:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you can't tell the difference, and aren't refraining from something for ethical/religious reasons, why does it matter?
If that's the case, I have some AAA rated derivatives to sell you.
Alternatively, fraud is fraud, and we have laws against it because allowing fraud is bad public policy..

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by ShogunTux · 2011-11-27 12:18 · Score: 5, Informative

One word: allergies
For instance, I personally am allergic to ordinary boned fish, but don't have a problem with shelled fish. So if I order crab, it's important to me to know that it's actually crab, and not imitation crab, because one will make me sick, and the other won't.
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by Strange+Ranger · 2011-11-27 12:25 · Score: 2

"You can't brand fish that way"

It's not about branding. It's about price and sustainability. When enough volume of thing$ are fraudulently or erroneously labeled then thing$ either end up with an artificially high price, because supply of real thing$ is known to be small; or the glut of fake thing$ artificially lower the price of the real product because supply seems plentiful, although the supply is largely fake.

Either way a free market requires accurate information regarding supply and demand in order to work properly.

Also, some people have food allergies. Others simply wish to avoid eating certain species. Others just don't like being lied to.

In all cases fraud is NOT desirable. Regardless of your taste buds or mine.

--

Operator, give me the number for 911!
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by denzacar · 2011-11-27 12:34 · Score: 3, Informative

Besides all the smuggling and poaching issues (i.e. poaching endangered tuna species from protected fisheries and selling them as their not so threatened cousins), fraud issues (i.e. selling you bottom of the barrel fish at top quality prices) - the main reason that should concern you and everyone else is right there in the summary.

In 2007 several people became seriously ill from eating illegally imported pufferfish that had been mislabeled as monkfish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraodontidae

(Maple) Puffer fish are generally believed to be the second-most poisonous vertebrate in the world, after the Golden Poison Frog. Certain internal organs, such as liver, and sometimes their skin are highly toxic to most animals when eaten, but nevertheless the meat of some species is considered a delicacy in Japan (as æè±s, pronounced as fugu), Korea (as bok), and China (as æè±s he2 tun2) when prepared by chefs who know which part is safe to eat and in what quantity.

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by PCM2 · 2011-11-27 12:54 · Score: 2

If you can't tell the difference, and arn't refraining from something for ethical/religious reasons, why does it matter? Whether you tell me that food is a delicacy from France or it's from down the street, it's going to taste the same to me. Either I'll like it or I won't. Stop worrying about this authenticity crap. You can't brand fish that way.
Personally, I think food should be labeled as what it is. If I buy something that says it's hamburger, I don't expect there to be 20 percent textured soy protein mixed in with the meat. Likewise, if I order a fish off a menu or buy it in a store, I expect it to be the fish it says it is.
Unfortunately, the fish industry seems particularly prone to this sort of mislabeling. Lots of types of fish seem to have "common names" that aren't particularly descriptive of what they actually are, yet they're allowed to be used on labels and in stores.
Example: I've seen a fish called "super white tuna" on menus at a number of sushi restaurants. I think it's pretty yummy myself; it can be so fatty that it actually tastes like butter. That's gotta be some exclusive, high-grade tuna, right? Wrong. Two problems here: First, this particular fish is illegal to sell in some countries because it can be so fatty that it causes (ahem) anal leakage. Seems like such a friendly-sounding fish should carry a warning label or something, no? Second, and most importantly, "super white tuna" isn't really tuna. It's actually a fish called escolar. It's not even in the same family as tuna. So why is this labeling legal?
Escolar isn't alone, either. "Rock cod" isn't really cod, for example. Seems to me this entire industry could use a lot more regulation and oversight, for multiple reasons. In the meantime, you pretty much have to bring a guidebook with you to know what you're getting when you order fish these days, and whether it's fished in sustainable ways. I recommend the app from the Monterey Bay Aquarium.

--
Breakfast served all day!
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by TheGratefulNet · 2011-11-27 14:46 · Score: 1

psst: that's not chicken, either.

--

--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by Improv · 2011-11-27 15:50 · Score: 1

That's a fair argument. I mainly am bothered about abstract concerns for "authenticity" of food for taste reasons, but I am very sympathetic to concerns such as yours.

--
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Re:Maybe this is a bad thing by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:52 · Score: 1

Alternatively, fraud is fraud, and we have laws against it because allowing fraud is bad public policy..
Are you being ironic?

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

Sorry to drop a downer on this story... by goodmanj · 2011-11-27 12:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

Good news, folks! If you live in Massachusetts, it'll soon be easier to find out if you got the right fish from Legal Seafood than it will be to find out whether the right man was convicted by the state legal system!

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Access_To_PostConviction_DNA_Testing.php

Re:Sorry to drop a downer on this story... by goodmanj · 2011-11-27 13:45 · Score: 1

And TFA is the response to that problem. When it comes to the wrong fish, we go from problem to solution in two months. When it comes to the wrong suspect, 20 years and counting.
Re:Sorry to drop a downer on this story... by identity0 · 2011-11-27 20:29 · Score: 1

Hey, with any luck that sort of argument will make it easier to convince people to get DNA testing on them.
Re:Sorry to drop a downer on this story... by goodmanj · 2011-11-28 04:21 · Score: 1

You see what I did there.
Re:Sorry to drop a downer on this story... by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:55 · Score: 1

So we find out an inmate isn't a fish. What then?

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

Belief vs. truth by Menkhaf · 2011-11-27 12:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

'When they sell something that's really expensive, they want the consumer to believe that they're getting what they're paying for,' Schindel told The Associated Press.

Nuff' said.

--
A proud member of the Onion-in-Hand alliance

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by houstonbofh · 2011-11-27 12:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nope. That is just old fashioned fraud killing people. There has been a lot of this lately from one nation. From toxic toothpaste to lead painted toys... Simple solution. Buy local food that still looks like the food... It also happens to be green, but I do it anyway.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Dogbertius · 2011-11-27 12:14 · Score: 5, Interesting

You damn well know what he is talking about. Claiming something was raised "organically" in the popularly understood sense of the word is quite profitable to abuse due to the fact that many people will pay more for it.

Good point sir!

On another note though, there may be some ambiguity. Some relatives visited from Luxembourg, and I recall at one family dinner we made a big deal about the produce being pesticide free, and the meat being free of artificial hormones, etc. When we explained the term was "organic", our guests spat out their food and all reached for their wine simultaneously, as they exclaimed "you grow all your food in shit?". As it turns out, they use the term "biologique" or maybe "organic-biologique". Very amusing dinner conversation.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by JustOK · 2011-11-27 12:17 · Score: 5, Funny

I eat only free-range vegetables

--
rewriting history since 2109

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Charliemopps · 2011-11-27 12:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

I doubt 90% of what is sold as "organic" is organic in the "popularly understood sense" as you put it. From Horizons being the largest organic brand in the country, importing the majority of their food from China, to your local farmers market filled with stands that got all their produce at the local grocery store the night before the market opened. There's a sucker born every minute and if you feed them a premise that involves technology being bad and improving their health, they will give you all of their money in very short order.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by jensend · 2011-11-27 12:26 · Score: 4, Funny

I've been saying the same thing for years.

"Of course everything here is organic. Do you see me serving you a bowl of sand?"

"Mmm, basalt. Crunchy."

Good idea by koan · 2011-11-27 12:32 · Score: 1

Lets do this for politicians too.

--
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."

New approach ... by PPH · 2011-11-27 12:36 · Score: 1

... to the old fortune cookie solution:

http://www.funnyandjokes.com/chinese-fortune-cookie-gone-wrong.html

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 12:39 · Score: 1

The most difficult part of eating vegetables is the wheel chair

Come on people by antifoidulus · 2011-11-27 12:46 · Score: 1

If you don't want to take chances with your seafood then you shouldn't be playing "Wheel of Fish". Come on people, this isn't rocket science.

--
Monstar L

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by TapeCutter · 2011-11-27 12:47 · Score: 1

I would be interested to see 'inorganic' vegetables..

Stone fruit?

--
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.

Man in the middle by Dunbal · 2011-11-27 12:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

The problem with the man in the middle is the man in the middle. If I don't trust a restaurant to serve me the seafood I want, how can I trust them to not falsify the DNA information? This is an absolutely stupid idea and does nothing to "reassure" people. Stop insisting you want $5.99 all you can eat lobster, and eat somewhere decent for a change. Until you can bring your own independent rapid-test kit and do your own test before your food gets cold, guess what - you still have to trust the damned restaurant.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.

Re:Man in the middle by petermgreen · 2011-11-28 04:57 · Score: 1

IMO this isn't so much about protecting consumers from restaurants as it is about protecting both restaurants and consumers from corruption further back in the supply chain. It only takes one corrupt guy in the supply chain to introduce fake produce and if he is far enough back in the supply chain he can probablly dissapear before his actions are traced back to him.

--
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Re:Man in the middle by Dunbal · 2011-11-29 00:22 · Score: 1

Still any decent chef knows exactly what he's buying without a "DNA" test. I've worked at a restaurant and it's damned hard work if you're doing it right.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.

Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · 2011-11-27 12:49 · Score: 1

It's very unusual, isn't it? I'm not being facetious.

It's like the diamond industry... by mark_reh · 2011-11-27 13:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

They give you a piece of paper that says it's authentic, but there is nothing that ties the paper to the diamond. And why should we trust "they" either? We all know that it's all a racket with the De Beers cartel keeping diamonds off the market to prop up the price and we should trust them to give us a piece pf paper that has some sort of truth on it? We can manufacture bigger and better diamonds than natural ones, and even CZ are hard to tell from diamonds except by their unnatural perfection.

Now the fish market has taken a cue from De Beers. They're going to do DNA sequencing and print a certificate to identify species, but what restaurant goers know which species of fish they want to eat and which they don't? It's like the jewelry store showing you a diamond under a microscope. You get the illusion that you know something, but you don't really know if you're even looking at a diamond. And how does the paper DNA test report "attach" to the fish it came from?

Next it will be wine-marketing- "this particular fish was caught by Mr. X, a 5th generation fisherman, at great risk to his life and limb, and was caught in 234' of water in the Bering sea at 2:37am yesterday. It was prepared by Mr. Y, a fourth generation chef who has studied under Mr. Z for 14 years before finally being allowed to do more than cut vegetables. It was seasoned with the essence of ptanga from Zanzibar..." etc. Today it's on special for only $342.

The bullshit will just keep piling higher and higher until only the 1% can afford to eat fish.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by reasterling · 2011-11-27 13:11 · Score: 2

'organic' vegetables - the stuff even the insects won't eat. ;)

--
"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice" -- God

welcome to red lobster by Joe_Dragon · 2011-11-27 13:16 · Score: 3, Funny

may I take you order? do you want the DNA Certified food or the mystery food?

Because they can charge more by WD · 2011-11-27 13:20 · Score: 1

... for certified seafood.

What did he actually say? by Libertarian001 · 2011-11-27 13:26 · Score: 1

"When they sell something that's really expensive, they want the consumer to believe that they're getting what they're paying for..."

He couldn't give two shits that what you're eating is what you paid for, he just wants you to *believe* that you're eating what you paid for.

Bait and switch by TapeCutter · 2011-11-27 13:26 · Score: 2

The fact you don't mind being scammed is irrelevant to everyone else. It's still fraud, in particular "bait and switch" style fraud.

--
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by Golddess · 2011-11-27 13:29 · Score: 3, Funny

It also happens to be green

I don't care what Dr Seuss says, ham should not be green.

--
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by kermidge · 2011-11-27 13:59 · Score: 1

You're supposed to shell 'em first.

DNA tests? What??! by formfeed · 2011-11-27 14:08 · Score: 1

oh.. - It's the food that gets tested. Okay, I'm for it then.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by ChromeAeonium · 2011-11-27 14:37 · Score: 3, Funny

I present to you 'organic' salt.. Good for seasoning french fires, and making chemists' heads explode.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Silvermistshadow · 2011-11-27 15:02 · Score: 1

But sir, NaCl doesn't contain any carbon at- *head explodes* Wait, I'm not even a professional chemist, do I count?

--
Any comments made by the owner of this signature should be disregarded as irrelevant, uninformed, and idiotic.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by TheLink · 2011-11-27 15:04 · Score: 1

But would you eat them in a box?

--

Too many replies beneath your current threshold

thanks for the tip! by MichaelCrawford · 2011-11-27 15:16 · Score: 1

now I know that my ram's bladder cup really is from a ram.

--
Request your free CD of my piano music.

Re:thanks for the tip! by Sulphur · 2011-11-27 16:33 · Score: 1

now I know that my ram's bladder cup really is from a ram.
Just so it is not ram's bladder ice cream cup served on a bed of encrypted spaghetti.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by flimflammer · 2011-11-27 15:33 · Score: 1

I've been laughing about organic foods since the craze really started gaining ground, but that right there takes the cake... Solar Dried Organic Sea Salt, naturally dried... Wow. $30 for 16 whole ounces even. That's a great deal!

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by ChromeAeonium · 2011-11-27 15:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think that's more of a language issue. As far as I know, the organic standards thing is the same in Europe as in the US, it's just that in some European languages they use the term biological. In German the use the prefix 'Bio-', in French they use the term 'biologique,' and I think in Italian the use the word 'biologica'. So basically, Europeans tend to call it biological, but it is the same thing that English speakers call organic.

It really is a better term when you think about it, because organic in general relies on biologically derived inputs as opposed to chemical ones. And yes, they still do use inputs; the whole 'organic food is pesticide free' thing is simply not true (and even if they didn't, plants naturally produce an order of magnitude more pesticidal secondary metabolites internally then you're going to get from properly applied spray residues). They'll just use fertilizers and pesticides that are derived from naturally occurring sources as opposed to being manufactured (and yes this includes manure [which is probably good to add to the soil every now and again no matter what system you use]), in other words, of biological origin as opposed to chemical.

The whole thing is a still just clever marketing based on a big idiotic appeal to nature fallacy that serves no purpose other than to separate the gullible and the scientifically illiterate from their money (if it occurs to you that the origin of a substance has no bearing on its chemical properties, then you know more about chemistry & biology than the organic movement) and undermine the integrity of agricultural technology and food science in the public's eye for profit, but the term 'biological' is still better than 'organic.' Not by much I guess since all food is going to biological in nature just like all food is organic but at lest this says something a little more specific about the production practices.

Re:Confused by happyhamster · 2011-11-27 15:49 · Score: 1

You thought correctly. Their "ways" are a cheap publicity stunt that is not going to solve anything. Since they are capable of fraud with the food you actually put in your body, nothing stops them from committing fraud by issuing fake DNA certificates. Enjoy your free-market-solves-everything cool-aid with that fake seafood.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by flimflammer · 2011-11-27 15:57 · Score: 1

I would've thought you'd be concerned if such a mod existed for the sake of your own posts.

Re:Confused by demonlapin · 2011-11-27 16:13 · Score: 1

Not really. Underwriters Laboratories (the world's #1 reason for wall warts) and the various Kosher labeling agencies come to mind as well. Some are better than others, of course, but at least the MPAA's ratings board can't ban a movie (though it can easily keep one out of theaters).

Ratings by WeeBit · 2011-11-27 16:15 · Score: 2

If they will give seafood a honest rating system?

AAA = tested - definitely looks, smells, and taste like lobster.
AA = some lobster and some cod
A = a few drops of lobster juice 100% cod flesh
-A = imitation seafood can be anything found safe and cheap with additives, and fish juice added to make it taste like any type of seafood.
-AA = imitation seafood can be unsafe for children and pregnant women contains all imitation ingredients.
-AAA = imitation not safe for human consumption but sold cheap in supermarkets, and fishmarkets as an alternative to the real thing.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by wvmarle · 2011-11-27 16:26 · Score: 2

Not to defend these suppliers, but keep in mind that part of the reason these toxic chemicals are used lies on your side of the Pacific. The US demands cheaper and cheaper goods, big buyers like Wal-Mart squeeze their suppliers to the max, and some unscrupulous suppliers respond by offering the prices Wal-Mart demands but replacing certain ingredients with sub-standard ones. Many of these toxic ingredients happen to be cheap.

The solution may lie in Wal-Mart et. al. demanding certification that the products are safe, and using only approved ingredients, on top of doing actual testing on those products for hazardous substances before putting them on store shelves, but that costs money, money Wal-Mart and many consumers are not willing to pay. Strict government regulation is the only way to have such testing/certification done and done properly, and that's something that again goes against general US culture.

You get what you pay for - and if you want good quality, you have to pay more.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by Greyfox · 2011-11-27 16:32 · Score: 1

Not to mention honey. Apparently it's bad enough to actually be banned. They're getting around the ban by shipping to India and importing from there. An easy solution to that would be to also ban honey from India. Or better yet, buy your honey from a guy who owns beehives. And ideally, in jars you saw him fill a second ago from inside an angry swarm of bees (Or however that works, I'm sure one of the beekeepers here will be happy to explain...)

--

I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

Just get trout by Animats · 2011-11-27 17:06 · Score: 2

Just get rainbow trout. It's produced in commercial fish farms in high volume at low cost, so nobody tries to pass something else off as trout. It also tastes good and tends not to accumulate mercury, because it's low on the food chain.

Re:Just get trout by trout007 · 2011-11-28 01:00 · Score: 1

I second the motion.

--
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Re:Just get trout by cffrost · 2011-11-28 06:21 · Score: 1

Forgive me Trout, but why do you need a license to kill if you're so low on the food chain?

--
Thank you, Edward Snowden.

"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan

"Counterfeit" DNA / Certificate by fatp · 2011-11-27 17:19 · Score: 1

When there are "counterfeit" seafood, why can't there be "counterfeit" DNA / Certificate?

Find yourself a better paranoia! by jensend · 2011-11-27 17:25 · Score: 1

Your fears are misplaced. Though plenty of pollution is (very regrettably) dumped into the oceans, the ocean is an extremely huge place volume-wise and the low density of pollutants in ocean water will not really affect your food.

(Well, there are a couple of chemicals, notably mercury, which are subject to biomagnification, i.e. things higher up the food chain get all the mercury from everything below them on the food chain; these can reach perceptible levels esp. if you're eating one kind of food all the time. Enough to be a little concerned but not enough to paranoiacally avoid ever eating any seafood.)

If you're concerned about chemicals affecting your food, you'd be much better off to be concerned about the pesticides, industrial pollutants, etc affecting land-based food sources (and fish from lakes and rivers); terrestrial water sources and topsoil have a much much lower volume than the ocean and absorb at least much chemical pollution. (And biomagnification happens with land creatures too.) So you really should consider never eating any land-based food again either.

If you're worried about nuclear radiation affecting your food, you'd do better to start worrying about the great unshielded nuclear reactor in the sky. Your danger of getting cancer from solar radiation is incomparably greater than your danger from Fukushima etc, even if you exclusively eat Japanese fish and stay indoors 24/7.

BP free seafood? by andydread · 2011-11-27 21:02 · Score: 1

How about some process telling me that the sea food I eat is free of Oil spill dispersants, Oil contamination and the like?

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by gutnor · 2011-11-27 21:26 · Score: 1

The whole thing is a still just clever marketing based on a big idiotic appeal to nature fallacy that serves no purpose other than to separate the gullible and the scientifically illiterate from their money

Creative business literate food marketer like to plaster their food with as many misleading labels as a lawyer could defend in court, so the organic label is one good way to avoid eating food genetically modified or grown using hormone or antibiotics. In Europe at least, that is quite important, even to scientifically literate people.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Colde · 2011-11-27 23:20 · Score: 1

Yeah, it most likely is a regional thing. In Denmark (and i believe it similar in the rest of the nordic countries) we refer to it as Ecological, or in danish Økologisk. Often these products are then prefixed with Øko in normal conversation, but it is similar til ot he german use of Bio, or indeed "organic" products from english speaking countries. In Denmark these products can additionally be goverment certified as "Øko" with a nice red mark on the packaging: http://www.foedevarestyrelsen.dk/Foedevarer/Oekologi/O_maerket/Sider/forside.aspx (in danish, sorry)

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Phoghat · 2011-11-28 01:37 · Score: 1

Well, could be Soylent green

--
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Arancaytar · 2011-11-28 02:58 · Score: 1

Why on earth would you season a fire? Isn't it hot enough?

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Ihmhi · 2011-11-28 04:53 · Score: 1

I prefer my vegetables grown in cages, especially my watermelons.

--
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)

Easy fix... by cayenne8 · 2011-11-28 05:36 · Score: 1

Well, one thing to help keep from this crap happening....BUY US CAUGHT FISH...rather than all that shit from china, thailand, etc.

In addition to having no compunction about selling 'counterfeit' fish, they farm raise in conditions over there with pesticides and anti-biotics that are illegal to use when farming fish in the states.

We do have labeling laws here in the US, at least on fish...take advantage of it. Buy only US caught fish, and try to get only wild caught fish too....

Geez, people are still scared to eat Gulf fish, after the oil spill.....seafood that has been tested more than any other food in history for the most part....rated as perfectly safe, and yet people keep buying essentially chemically contaminated fish from the east, without thinking twice?

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by houstonbofh · 2011-11-28 07:01 · Score: 1

Actually, some consumers ARE willing to pay, and that is what my post was about. I pay more than walmart prices, but I get better food. Do not NEED the government to do it. Just educated consumers. And if you choose not to educate yourself, you deserve the food you get. Buyer beware...

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:34 · Score: 1

I grow all my own fruit and vegetables and they are definitely organic. they even have flavour.

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:47 · Score: 1

I would eat them from your socks

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

Re:Same old "authority" fallacy again! by uninformedLuddite · 2011-11-28 09:58 · Score: 1

PROTIP: Unless you personally know somebody, you can't say anything about their trustworthiness.

Just like you can't even if you know them.

--
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.

Re:illegally imported pufferfish that had been mis by wvmarle · 2011-11-28 14:16 · Score: 1

It may help for the food part, to get at least the type of food you expect - but from the outlook you can not normally see whether it has been sprayed with DDT or not sprayed at all. There is a good reason DDT is prohibited now, as are certain other insecticides and pesticides, but you can not trust the farmers themselves to set up or enforce such a prohibition. Personally I also try to buy local food, but with 7 mln people on just 1,000 sq.m. of which half is country park, there is not much produced locally.

For other products, like tooth paste and toys, it's anyone's guess as to what's really in it. And that is where regulation is needed, and I don't trust industry to do it by themselves.

Imagine you order a razor fish by porky_pig_jr · 2011-11-28 15:17 · Score: 1

and they serve you a sponge monkey!

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by Anonymus · 2011-11-28 22:41 · Score: 1

My local farmer's market costs about half of grocery store prices and has about three times the selection as local grocery stores, so they must get a really good deal the night before...

Re:Eggs, not ham by TheLink · 2011-11-29 07:01 · Score: 1

From the pics the ham is green too.

--

Too many replies beneath your current threshold

Re:Its Life.Jim, but not as we know it by biovoid · 2011-11-30 18:50 · Score: 1

Mmmmm... Triffids.....

Slashdot Mirror

Restaurants Plan DNA-Certified Seafood Program

125 of 174 comments (clear)