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Civilian Use of Drone Aircraft May Soon Fly In the US
An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from the Seattle Times:
"Drone aircraft, best known for their role in hunting and destroying terrorist hideouts in Afghanistan and Pakistan, may be coming soon to the skies near you. Police agencies want drones for air support to find runaway criminals. Utility companies expect they can help monitor oil, gas and water pipelines. Farmers believe drones could aid in spraying crops with pesticides. 'It's going to happen,' said Dan Elwell, vice president of civil aviation at the Aerospace Industries Association. 'Now it's about figuring out how to safely assimilate the technology into national airspace.' That's the job of the Federal Aviation Administration, which plans to propose new rules for using small drones in January, a first step toward integrating robotic aircraft into the nation's skyways."
"Drone aircraft, best known for their role in hunting and destroying houses and children"
"Begun, the Drone Wars have."
How shall we count them?
Traffic reporting
Speeders/ Speed traps Hey someone has to pay for Maintenance, Fuel and Pilot for this thing!
Forestry service
Fire fighting
surveillance (Abuse of powers, Gonna happen)
Night vision, Infrared/Thermal imaging
Knock, Knock! Who's there!? Search Warrant!
BOOM! precision guided munition right into your toilet.
Let's not forget alien Centipedes for Senator assasinations.
Kite Fighting is a common festival in many parts of Asia. In a few years from now, imagine if a bunch of dudes do that with drones ( and the drones shooting at each other with Spud Guns in mid-air).
It will soon become and industry of its own. Microsoft and Sony will soon come out with Fighter Drones.
Microsoft's will have a "ring of death" ( It'll circle your house twice before crashing into your house and destroying the ceiling/attic.
Sony's will have the ability to fly carrying a dog as a passenger. But one day it'll disable it via software update and your mutt will no longer be able to fly.
Nintendo will come out with a cheaper, smaller drone will require you to flap your arms like a bird, which the drone will faithfully imitate.
I see a good future for the gaming industry with this.
...people from taking pot shots at them, be it with firearms, slingshots, toy rockets, what have you. I suppose that the best way to prevent this from happening is to make them so hideously expensive to insure or operate that no one bothers.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
1. Aerial surveillance is a widespread random search. Like a checkpoint but without the fiction of surrendering your rights to get a license.
2. Facial recognition, searching databases to connect visual elements to a context of "finding perps", is warrantless search and research.
The mere fact it is possible to laser capture all audio from all windows of all residences simultaneously, does not make it right to capture the data.
More to my point, using military procedures, equipment, technology, and rules to persue civil crime or "violations" is a direct violation of the liberty clause of the Constitution (leave me alone principal).
There's my 2 cents. By the time I die expect to have exactly zero rights remaining, and all of a sudden to have spent more than my cumulative lifetime 12 hours in jail. I went to a scared straight program too. :D
JJ
Japan has been using UAVs for agriculture for years. Pretty cool stuff.
http://benpheneverything.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/robotic-crop-dusting-in-japan/
http://www.gizmag.com/go/2440/
When one of the drones operated by a wage slave across the country in a nameless industrial park crashes into a preschool full of children, what happens then?
Who was the "pilot in command"?
These things aren't nearly as reliable as commercial aircraft, and their failure modes tend to be more catastrophic. There's no pilot inside trying Plan B, Plan C, Plan D, etc and finally pulling a Great Santini.
Fine in a battlefield environment where collateral damage is part of the game.
"how to safely assimilate the technology into national airspace.". THAT is the tricky part!
Pilots (this is not just commercial airlines, but even a two-set Cessna...) must hold and keep current a license. The pilot must know actual operating characteristics of the types of planes they'll fly (for instance how susceptible it is to downdrafts and updrafts.) They must know when they can fly with visual flight rules, and when they must maintain radio contact. They must run through a full checklist on the plane before every takeoff. They must follow flight rules -- certain flight heights, when approaching an airport they must follow the approach pattern (so they don't cut off or ram other planes coming in), and so on. They must maintain awareness of their surroundings.
Drones? I just have the feeling they will be flown by yahoos that may be able to keep the plane level, but won't keep up on maintenance, won't follow flight rules, won't maintain proper radio contact, and I'm not sure these drones even have the ability to allow complete awareness of surroundings (if it doesn't provide 360 degree camera coverage.) Honestly, if anyone flys these, they should have to follow EVERY single rule a Cessna would have to follow, including having a licensed pilot flying it, who will be fully responsible for any mishaps the plane gets into. These are not as big of planes, but will still kill someone if it crashes and hits someone on the ground, or hits the prop on a small plane.
This has major fourth amendment implications--When technology is in use by the civilian public, there is supreme court precedent saying the fourth amendment generally doesn't reach it. (An old thermal imaging case.)
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
I don't see what's to stop people from taking pot shots at them...
The SWAT team that will kick in your door and haul you away.
these drones are job killers!
The eye in the sky
That flies low and high
Is anon and nigh.,
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
The small copters should be autonomous and stream media to wifi.
Get it to follow a reporter/protestor into a situation like a Occupy eviction.
My camera, its up there. The foottage of you punching me in the face, that's already on google.
Some of these 'drones' that will be available aren't going to be much larger than R/C airplanes.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Civilians are already building their own drones. See DIY Drones, etc.
Personally I'd like to see a drone airship that can hold a stable position around 70,000 feet (~21km) to use as a WiFi relay, which would fix the problem of getting a clear line-of-sight for point-to-point long-range wireless but good. I doubt it can be done reliably though. But if it could, and you built a fleet of them linked with Open Mesh, you could build a global drone communications network for fairly cheap. Call it Skynet... oh.
Drones are both too small to see easily and have no pilot on board that can see any conflicting traffic.
Anyone want to open a pool to bet on how soon a drone gets sucked into a major airliner's jet intake and causes a crash? Yeah, big jets fly really high -- unless they are landing or taking off or approaching an airport. Drones fly really low -- right where the GA small-aircraft fly.
What's the big deal? The pilots on a commercial flight are just there to make the passengers feel better.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
I'm uncomfortable with this, but I'm having trouble understanding exactly why. Maybe it's that I think law-and-order should remain a point-of-tension that requires special effort on behalf of law enforcement, and that tension serves a number of reasonable social purposes; discreet direct action should probably remain possible.
Maybe I'm fighting the tide, and maybe I should find a way to pin down my discomfort more, but this still is uncomfortable for me.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
what about useing military to monitor Utility's lines?
You can say it's tied to the national guard
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security bought an unmanned helicopter for a Texas Sheriff's Department. I feel safe!
http://www.examiner.com/page-one-in-houston/first-unmanned-police-drone-texas-set-to-launch-north-of-houston
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The fcc and faa should force local control.
I did a college project and built a simple drone with Arduino parts and some model RC stuff. We had to come up with a business plan to present commercial applications for there are many:
firefighters need a temp profile of a building before they get there, send the drone
cops need eyes in the sky to find a perp, send the drone
high volume roadway monitoring, send the drone
video taping sports events (highschool, private, college, racing, etc), send the drone
monitoring wildlife/forestry/national park outdoorsey stuff, send the drone
weather monitoring and remote sensing in harsh environments, send the drone
Anything that requires helicopter eyes in the sky but doesn't need to transport human or heavy payloads (air fuel is not cheap)
many more than not 4th amendment violations, send all the drones you got baby.
With all the good that could come of this technology, I guarantee the loss of civil liberties and privacy will be ten-fold larger. First to market will make lots of money once they pay off the FAA and get through the red tape. Lockheed/Northrop/Boeing/large DoD contractors have the lock on the drone market for the gov't now, once a large demand is created in the non-government sector, we'll see more of these stateside once the red-tape and matters are worked out. Where drones are better at some things overseas, they will be utilized that way here as well (hopefully, but not guaranteed, to be ordinance free). Naturally drones are nothing new, the barriers to entry are cost, FAA regs, demand. But once contractors get the lock and private firms/governments see/feel/create the need, drones will become another fact of life here in Panopticonland.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
"how to safely assimilate the technology into national airspace.". THAT is the tricky part!
Pilots (this is not just commercial airlines, but even a two-set Cessna...) must hold and keep current a license. The pilot must know actual operating characteristics of the types of planes they'll fly (for instance how susceptible it is to downdrafts and updrafts.) They must know when they can fly with visual flight rules, and when they must maintain radio contact. They must run through a full checklist on the plane before every takeoff. They must follow flight rules -- certain flight heights, when approaching an airport they must follow the approach pattern (so they don't cut off or ram other planes coming in), and so on. They must maintain awareness of their surroundings.
Drones? I just have the feeling they will be flown by yahoos that may be able to keep the plane level, but won't keep up on maintenance, won't follow flight rules, won't maintain proper radio contact, and I'm not sure these drones even have the ability to allow complete awareness of surroundings (if it doesn't provide 360 degree camera coverage.) Honestly, if anyone flys these, they should have to follow EVERY single rule a Cessna would have to follow, including having a licensed pilot flying it, who will be fully responsible for any mishaps the plane gets into. These are not as big of planes, but will still kill someone if it crashes and hits someone on the ground, or hits the prop on a small plane.
http://www.mtv.com/videos/beavis-and-butt-head-season-9-ep-3-drones/1674141/playlist.jhtml#series=2211&seriesId=37392&channelId=1
If it can tweet, its a new genus right there. and I see great future for Rovio, far beyond 2.5B
-- well, upyourkarma..
Better proctology through robotics
Remember when we all objected to drones in our skies years and years ago and we were told this technology would NEVER be used on American soil to spy on Americans?
Remember that anyone?
Now this shit IS coming to our soil and WILL be used against us. Fucking Liars the lot of them.
"The US military, best known for their role in hunting and destroying houses and children"
Umm, just over a year ago didn't we decide that drones do bad things to people regardless of allegiance?
http://collateralmurder.com/
The problem has been that the FAA and pilots have been holding this up I think. You need a pilots license to fly a drone here and that is sad.
Drone applications don't all have to be draconian in nature. There are a multitude of uses for them and they can help us with a variety to tasks. It will also help open up a high tech market sector for them here in the USA, I hope. This is one of my favorite subjects being I am in school for mechanical engineering stuff. Next year, I think they will turn me loose on working on the RepRap project I proposed my first semester. I would think with that, one could work next on the open source drone that is out there as well, being you can then generate the parts.
People are far too paranoid about the Government and things in general. Drones are America's new best friend. Didn't our mothers tell us to make friends?
Take the Red Pill.
Drone aircraft, best known for their role in hunting and destroying terrorist hideouts in Afghanistan and Pakistan, may be coming soon to the skies near you. Utility companies expect they can help monitor oil, gas and water pipelines. Farmers believe drones could aid in spraying crops with pesticides. Police agencies want drones to launch Hellfire missiles at Occupy UC Davis protestors so that individual police can't be identified."
the news stations already have these... http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-08-03/tech/30044325_1_drone-news-corporation-unmanned-aircraft
Seeing that here in the US we live in the safest time in human history your apparent need to up the ante of the surveillance state seems to indicate you should move to a nice fascist regime. As a person who realizes that, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" I also realize that the "blood of patriots" did not refer to young men shipped to foreign countries but possibly referred to liberty minded citizens right here at home who are willing to take the amazingly slight risk of allowing liberty to remain paramount. I also realize that "tyrants" could even refer to our own government and that the government should be trusted as far as I can spit up wind in a hurricane.
Government by popularity with a decision making process funded by corporations is an insanely dangerous thing.
No. I will not willingly give a blind government hierarchy a cost effective way to micromanage our lives and to automate the fleecing of the people. WE ARE NOT THEIR SOURCE OF INCOME. They are supposed to be our servants.
Think about this: It is impossible for a government, a corporation, or a committee to be moral. Morality requires a conscience and only an individual can have a conscience.
That's not just a troll. The drones get much bigger headlines (just outside the USA?) for blowing up wedding parties and other civilians, than for killing enemies, even though they hopefully do the latter more often.
I was going to comment about blowing up allied border posts, but that particular massacre was done by piloted planes. So are drones really the problem?
Are drone pilots any more detached from the carnage than the WWII high-altitude incendiary bomber crews?
As for civilian use, we could use a couple of these for aerial shark patrols. Not too dangerous flying over the ocean. They could even be armed with a .50 cal gun.
Ammunition prices set to rise as more Alabama residents play a new game called UAV target practice.
Sounds so original! I think the Seattle Times copied it.
Drone attacks during Bush II administration: 52
Drone attacks during Obama adminstration: 257
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
The American Model Aircraft Association has rules that members are required
to comply with.
First, you are forbidden from launching projectiles of any kind from model aircraft.
Exceptions are made for unpowered non-explosive ballistic drops for contests.
They recently allowed UAV remote piloting subject to the following limitations:
1) The aircraft must be flown within visual range of the pilot at all times.
2) The pilot must have a human spotter that can assume visual control of the
aircraft in the event that the pilot loses visual. (No fumbling to recover if signal loss.)
There are other requirements concerning the separation between people and aircraft
that should apply to all civilian aircraft, RC or NOT.
CITE: http://modelaircraft.org/documents.aspx#SMB
and in particular http://modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf
Drone attacks during Reagan Administration: 0. Your point?
It's a relatively new technology: it makes sense that it's being used more and more as time goes by.
That said, it's a f**king killing machine, and using it amounts to murder. But's that your today's Amerika.
I don't have a sig.
In use since 1995, so the reference to Obama's prediliction to murder by remote control is perfectly appropriate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-1
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
How annoying do you find cyclist couriers in the city dodging traffic and causing accidents all while risking their lives. Now drone courier system would be super cool will reduce cyclist traffic and wont clutter the airways with nonsensical chatter between buddy couriers talking about what they had to lunch or what that busty receptionist at the legal aid office was wearing today. If a drone can carry a missle payload then it can easily carry a bunch of documents and moreso will have direct line express route across the city. Drone pizza takeaway service? pay online by credit card and the drone will paradrop a pizza to your door. no it wont land so you can steal it nor give you change. i expect cash to die out and everything to be paid by plastic in my future world :) :) :)
for added protection the drone can carry a missile JUST IN CASE...
if you somehow made special landing/hookup mail boxes mandatory for all household your post office can deliver the letters via drones. :)
Drone aircraft, best known for their role in hunting and destroying terrorist hideouts in Afghanistan and Pakistan,
This is propaganda. They are best known for killing civilians. Some resistance fighters have been killed too, but it is very broad to be called a terrorist just because you live in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
"Drone aircraft, best known for their role in hunting and destroying terrorist hideouts in Afghanistan and Pakistan." - Terrorists everywhere but where they landed from? Or they are just Afghan and Pakistan natives? This kind of text seems to me just propaganda to be able to sell high price weapons to Govs. The peace can be reach by talks but using weapons is a fast solution. Since the citizens are brainwashed well, they will pay for such weapons.
Murder by remote control has been around since the invention of...well...probably the rock. Or language, depending on your definition.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Sometime back in 2002 or 2003, for many months there was a UAV flying a pattern in SF which crossed above my apartment about every 30 minutes. The noise from it was intolerable - it sounded like one of those extremely whiny 2-cycle things. I have photos of it somewhere that I could dig up. If they start using these things again I am very concerned about the noise. You do not want one of these things flying a route that passes above you regularly.
I just hope that they find a way of preventing Muslims form controlling them. Otherwise they could be coming to a window near you soon.
...sex in the garden then, with spy drones flying about the neighbourhood.
If Americans wanted to fly drones with a payload, they could have done it since back in the 60's with COX engines. The only thing these cocksuckers in power want now is to be the ones controlling the drones. They will achieve this goal unless you declare war with them administratively, but you won't and they will win through Problem, Reaction, Solution.
The possibility that a drone can help people protesting on the ground (video) scares DHS and their war against the rule of law. They don't like that shit at all.
DHS has to go. De-Activated 100% , un-hooked from the US Constitution 100%
OBAMA FARTS SMELL WONDERFUL
Yup, been done in Europe already. Check the video of the protestor in Warsaw who used a camera to fly over police lines.
We don't need to fear capture and invasive probing by our Rigellian ("Greys") Brothers! We can send a drone in, and have it take pictures.
Maybe we could send a few drones over to Area 51 to peek at their junkyard collection of inoperative saucers?
1) intimidating crowds of protesters
2) mass delivery of casual pepper spray
3) spying on any person/house/field
4) following vehicles remotely
5) issue speeding tickets remotely
6) back-up air support for raids (Branch Davidian debacle)
Until I see law enforcement acting responsibly with the power they already have I am not a fan of giving them more.
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Pilots world wide are required to speak english. How do drones talk to ATC? Also, when one of these crashes they won't be able to blame the pilot so we'll have court battles between the companies who own/operate them and the manufacturer unless these are the same, in which case it's clear who to sue.
Just think of it!
At a conference last month I met a guy that built a 6-bladed-heliicopter that could carry 3 pounds. He built it to replace a very expensive RC copter he was afriad to even fly because starting it was dangerous.
Anyhow he's also built $130 flying machines that run open source swarming software, he uses multiple drones to map radio networks.
I figure the crop dusting would probably go better with something like that, the swarm knows which sections of the crops it has covered and doesn't overlap.
The drones would have to be bigger to carry enough payload to be economical, but why would you make the farmer pilot the thing? Release the drones to GPS map the farmer's property, then edit the map once to cover any issues and from then on its release them on a regular schedule like a roomba.
Also I know in California they plant rice with airplanes, maybe they can manage something similar with the same drones they do the crop dusting with.
I am thinking that the farmer can get his rice, pesticide, or fertilizer loaded and start his robot flying circus going faster than he can meet a pilot at the local airstrip with same materials.
Excuse any ignorance of the process on my part, maybe the guy with the crop dusting plane would do just as well to have a small fleet of drones that he operates out of a uhaul and not have to hangar and insure a small plane somewhere.
True, and it's only gotten more precise and capable. The problem isn't the technology, it's the fallible human intelligence behind it. We hit what we're aiming at. The problem is deciding what to aim at.
Bullshit aside, the collateral damage in war has fallen off so dramatically it's almost unbelievable. Public opinion is a big motivator and technology makes it possible. But it'll never go away entirely.
http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell.html
Major illegal wars started by Bush: 2
Major illegal wars started by Obama: 0
He might not be the Second Coming, but the US seems much less of a threat to the rest of the world under Obama.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
the collateral damage in war has fallen off so dramatically it's almost unbelievable.
Golly gosh, yes, the military are so wonderful nowadays! You can count the number of dead men, women and child civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan on the fingers of one hand, practically and most of those were probably secretly terrorists anyway.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I used to work on a hot air balloon crew on the weekends, apparently there was a problem with flying over certain farms where the growers would shoot at the ballons passing over their property.
I was told the guy flying the balloon would note the location of the farm, and call the FBI when he landed.
Major illegal wars not ended by Obama: 2 (he lobbied Iraq to stay but Iraq decided to stick with the timetable set under GWB).
Major illegal wars expanded: 1 (at one time, there were more than 3x the number of troops in Afghanistan than under Bush).
Minor illegal wars setting despotic precedent: 1 (Obama didn't even abide by the War Powers Act in Libya setting the stage for future presidents to not even bother with asking congress for approval -- under the constitution, the president isn't allowed to start wars at all).
Then there is the extrajudicial murder of a US citizen without trial, without evidence, and without review based solely on Obama's assertion he was a bad guy.
If you think American's are safer under Obama, you are deluded. He has taken the Bush/Cheney abuses to new levels and is essentially preparing us for the final de facto repeal of our civil liberties.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Your logic is all over the place. It's almost as if you have a problem with him for some other reason...
Explain how it is all over the place?
Obama is a warmonger and civil liberties violator. Bush was a warmonger and civil liberties violator. That's my issue with Obama and I give examples. Explain the logic problem.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Whilst Europe and Australia enjoy commercial UAS operation the USA are years behind. Both in technology and regulation. Yes there might be lots of military drones but the small civil stuff is rising from the East. The regulators have not even had open discussions yet http://www.suasnews.com/2011/11/10245/uas-arc-2-0/ so January is a silly idea!
That, and because public corporations are legally required to be amoral sociopaths. It doesn't matter if Mr. Rogers is in charge of the corporation, his shareholders will sue him if he doesn't fuck over his neighbor for a buck.
That is untrue. The concept of increasing shareholder value does not have a timeframe restriction. A moral CEO is free to decide that shareholder value is best increased by the longer term decision to preserve the corporate reputation and not screw customers, suppliers, etc. Regrettably they do not always do so but this is not because they are required to act otherwise.
For its citizens, our government is permitted to use just enough force to over come the force being used against it, and no more.
We have seen cops using pepper spray and tear gas to enforce compliance against people exercising their constitutional rights. Hardly what the law allows.
Now they'll have drones, faceless and out of reach, and bet me, some sheriff in Texas is going to get overly excited with his joystick and do something really, really bad sometime.
Why do I keep feeling like I'm going to be in the rebel alliance someday?
More news at 11.
If you all look at the effectiveness of TF ODIN in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will understand why this technology cannot - ever - be allowed domestic utilization. Keep in mind that the drones see in nearly every spectra and through surfaces, can loiter for extremely long periods of time while nearly invisible, and is incredibly effective in the observance and prosecution of a designated target. (If you're in a drone's sights, you're a 'target' not a 'suspect') The power and ability of a domestic drone system combined with something like Palantir would rip the definition of privacy right out of the dictionary and put it in the trash. The is nearly no one who can truly - read: openly - explain the degree of power and impact of an integrated system like this would have on our day to day lives as Americans.