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Goodbye Textbooks, Hello iPad

PolygamousRanchKid writes "Students and teachers in grade school through higher education are using the iPad to augment their lessons or to replace textbooks. Jennifer Kohn's third grade class at Millstone Elementary School in Millstone, New Jersey, mastered the iPad with minimal training. For the most part, the students didn't need to be taught how to use their apps, Kohn says. College students are also turning to the iPad to do what they do instinctively well: saving themselves money. Marianne Petit, a New York University staff member, recently began taking credits in pursuit of another certification, and uses her iPad in place of textbooks. 'The price of the iPad pays for itself after a single semester,' Petit said. 'iPad books cost so much less it's a legal alternative for students who are using BitTorent [to pirate books].' Like the PC before it, Kohn noted that the iPad isn't a panacea for educators: It has its appropriate time and place. 'I don't use them with every lesson or even day. It's not always appropriate to lesson or objective of what I'm trying to teach,' Kohn noted."

396 comments

  1. Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    s/iPad/ANY TABLET/g

    1. Re:Uh... by fsckmnky · · Score: 0

      I was thinking the same thing.

    2. Re:Uh... by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But they're not using ANY TABLET, they're using iPads.

    3. Re:Uh... by masternerdguy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Kids need to be educated about the evils of root access to machines early.

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    4. Re:Uh... by marcello_dl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I got internet on a 28.8kbit line in 1996.
      If somebody told me: look, in 15 years they will still study on books I would have ROTFLMAO.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    5. Re:Uh... by IANAAC · · Score: 3, Informative
      That's what it should be, yeah.

      Remember when PCWorld used to be one giant ad for whatever PC program-of-the month was paying them? Now it seems that it panders to Apple too.

      The "article" is just one giant love fest for the iPad, arranged by the founder of "iPhome". Oh well, at least they managed to mention "Kindle" once.

    6. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is pretty sad. They're presenting text and maybe some images, the "textbooks" should be platform agnostic.

    7. Re:Uh... by dr2chase · · Score: 2

      That was my impression too. In particular, a love fest for iPhome, the padded-foamy-holder.

    8. Re:Uh... by fafaforza · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But then again, speaking of Kindle, it itself became the Apple of eInk devices, where you'd figure the Kindle was the only one available as no other manufacturers ever get mentioned. Even back in the day when it was only Amazon and Sony, and maybe some smaller manufacturers, Sony didn't exist in most article authors' world, even though they had a superior reader.

    9. Re:Uh... by m.ducharme · · Score: 4, Funny

      The sad thing is, I don't even know if you're joking.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    10. Re:Uh... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Not if the company that made the software only wrote it for ipad....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    11. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had one, Sony's readers were crap.

    12. Re:Uh... by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm willing to bet half of the administrators of these schools have never heard of any alternatives to iPads and so never considered any of the more logical choices (e.g.any e-reader)

      --
      SSC
    13. Re:Uh... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Almost as bad as the windows whores that have to complain all the time.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    14. Re:Uh... by DragonTHC · · Score: 2

      sed you're my hero.

      I'd love to see them try this at a title 1 school.

      Little kids with ipads in the inner city? they're gonna get mugged for their 'textbooks'

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    15. Re:Uh... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It used to be that noone would get fired for buying IBM. Then it was Microsoft. When it comes to tablets, Apple is still the leader by market share. They are the low-risk option. Sure, you pay more. A lot more. But if it all goes horribly wrong, you can't be accused of causing the problem by buying inferior equipment.

    16. Re:Uh... by fafaforza · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit. When the Kindle had a crap dark gray screen, the 505 was head and shoulders above it in contrast. And it wasn't a placticky toy with a keyboard. Sony also was the first to put touch on their readers, and later improved it with infrared sensors on the side, something that Amazon and B&N are using today. Sony had it probably a year in advance.

    17. Re:Uh... by Wovel · · Score: 1

      You think? Your wrong.

    18. Re:Uh... by _KiTA_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm willing to bet half of the administrators of these schools have never heard of any alternatives to iPads and so never considered any of the more logical choices (e.g.any e-reader)

      It's this, combined with some odd effect I'm sure marketing has named, but I remain ignorant of the lingo.

      For example, it's like how if I take my Kindle out in public, someone asks me if "The Barnes and Noble Kindle" is any good, too. "Oh, Sony has a Kindle out, too, did you hear about that?"

      I don't listen to music on an mp3 player, I listen to music on "an iPod."

      To my parents, when I get home, I play "Nintendo." Not the Wii, not the Playstation, not the 360 -- The Nintendo Nintendo, the Sony Nintendo, or the Windows Nintendo.

      And nowadays, you don't buy a tablet PC, you buy "an iPad."

      The most successful member of a product group names the group, permanently.

    19. Re:Uh... by Tharsman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dont want them kids saying the virus ate their homework!

    20. Re:Uh... by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 4, Informative

      The term you're looking for is genericized trademark, I believe.

      --
      SSC
    21. Re:Uh... by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, just like Windows is the most popular OS, IE is the most popular browser and McDonald's is the most popular restaurant.

    22. Re:Uh... by Ltap · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't new and isn't exclusive to technology. It started in earnest, it seems, in the 1950s (the great age of commercialization) when certain companies wanted their trademark to be the name for a generic product. Ever Hoover®ed something? Taken Aspirin®? Blown your nose with a Kleenex®? Put a Band-Aid® on a cut? Written a memo on a Post-It® note? In some cases, it's simply unintentional -- the generic name for a product is the brand name of the most popular version (hence the "Crapper" toilet). In other cases it's more sinister, like with Nintendo -- the company is trying to control the market by identifying its brand with the product alone.

      This kind of maneuvring can also be seen a little with Apple and its insistence on using its own terminology. Why? Consider the AirPort and AirPort Base Station. To normal humans, these are known as the wi-fi adapter and wireless access point respectively. But to someone going into a shop, only knowing they "need a new base station", they will (if they are ignorant enough), ignore wireless routers and access points that would obviously be compatible with their Mac system in favour of an Apple product simply because of terminology. It's a way of fostering dependence. The fact that Apple does this all the time should clue you into something.

      --
      Yet Another Tech Blog
      (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
      http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    23. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you use a Google iPad!

    24. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> never considered any of the more logical choices (e.g.any e-reader)

      Maybe they didn't, but any e-reader is not a more logical choice. In fact, any ereader (by which I assume you mean one with an e-ink screen) will be a terrible choice for textbooks. Ever tried to read a textbook with illustrations and graphs on an e-ink screen?

      iPad is a good choice. Yes there are alternatives, but nothing serious yet. You think they are going to commit to buying a bunch of Xooms?

    25. Re:Uh... by Mithent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. This frustrated me before with the iPod - friends and family wouldn't go out looking for an MP3 player, they'd go out looking for an iPod, because an iPod is what you get to play music on the move. And it's just the same now with the iPad. They didn't look at the available tablets on the market and decide that the iPad was the one that best suited their needs. They wanted a tablet, so they bought the iPad, because the iPad is the tablet.

    26. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry that neither one of you fools can't afford a real computer. LOLZ!!!!

    27. Re:Uh... by slyrat · · Score: 1

      I had one, Sony's readers were crap.

      Maybe the very first version. The thing is that it was pretty much the only eInk reader of any quality at the time.

    28. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the most successful example of this is the Band Aid.

    29. Re:Uh... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      In other cases it's more sinister, like with Nintendo -- the company is trying to control the market by identifying its brand with the product alone.

      When you say "IS", you mean "was, 25 years ago when the Nintendo Entertainment System came out"? And I think you ascribe way too complicated motives to them. Atari's system was nicknamed simply "atari", and could easily have become the generic, if the NES hadnt been so successful.

    30. Re:Uh... by multisync · · Score: 5, Informative

      This isn't new and isn't exclusive to technology. It started in earnest, it seems, in the 1950s (the great age of commercialization) when certain companies wanted their trademark to be the name for a generic product.

      You've actually got that completely backwards. Companies go to great pains to prevent their trademarked names from being diluted to the point that they become generic terms for a product category. In fact, companies like Xerox have taken out ads in publications like Writers Digest imploring authors to not abuse their trademark by using their trademarked name as a verb, as in "I xeroxed a copy" (note the lower case).

      The reason is that trademarks, unlike copyrights and patents, must be actively defended to be maintained. That's one of the big differences between trademark and copyright. If you don't actively defend your trademark, it can ruled to have been abandoned and you will lose your exclusive right to use it in the marketplace. On the other hand, by rigorously defending your trademark, it can effectively last forever, unlike copyrights which (theoretically) expire.

      Companies definately want you to think of their products first, but you will find them very hostile if you use their trademarked name generically, especially if it's to describe a similar product offered by a competitor.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    31. Re:Uh... by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      I know I consult for school districts and there is no tablet standard in place. Some schools want Kindle some want iPads it really all depends on the school district what online programs they subscribe to and available budget.

    32. Re:Uh... by fedos · · Score: 1

      And even though the Sony Reader was out before Kindle, no one remembers it that way. Much as many people think Apple invented the mp3 player, smartphone, and tablet.

    33. Re:Uh... by catmistake · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This kind of maneuvring can also be seen a little with Apple and its insistence on using its own terminology.

      Like AppStore. They could have avoided all kinds of trouble if they just would have said it is the iOS package manager, and its called "AppStore," rather than entirely glossing over the generic form of what it actually is. Had they done this, there would have been no hubbub about every mobile competitor all calling their package managers "appstores." Then again, its just as likely it was incompetant tech journalists that caused that.

    34. Re:Uh... by dp619 · · Score: 1

      You obviously didn't read the story.

    35. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something I noticed is that starting with the iPhone, all my friends stopped using the words phone and mobile to describe their mobile phones and started calling them iPhone despite the fact that there was already a good, short common word before. I don't know if this is because the iPhone is a smartphone and they are distinguishing between a regular phone and a smartphone and using the actual product name because it's easier to say than smartphone, or just saying iPhone because they've had that name drilled into their mind by extremely slick advertising and everyone else who bought one and started talking about how great it is (I've heard SO many people talking about iPhone in restaurants, bars and on public transport as well as at work).

      The "i" prefix is total genius. It sounded dumb to start with, but now iGadgets are so ubiquitous, it not only distinguishes them as one of Apple's magical wonder devices without Apple ever having to think of an original name but allows them to effectively trademark a common word, which helps consumers understand what the thing does. It's also so easy to say iPad, iPod, iPhone, etc. that people use the brand name over the common word. Of course, that would never happen if the products were shit, and kudos to Apple for what they have achieved over the last 10 years.

    36. Re:Uh... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2, Informative

      The iPad does not retail for (much) more than tablets of similar spec, and Apple has always offered educational discounts.

    37. Re:Uh... by Missing.Matter · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple has always offered educational discounts.

      Not on the iPad

    38. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google doesn't like "let me google that for you..." and Legos don't like to be called legos, but rather Lego building bricks.

      One thing is clear that companies don't like their trademarks "verbed".

    39. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. ePub, PDF, RTF, or even plain .txt should work fine on most readers.

      It's likely the school has some special deal on Apple products though. This goes back to the 1980's and 1990's when schools got special deals that weren't available to the general public.

      Outside of the chosen platform it has to be nice for the students though. I remember carrying a 30lb bookbag, and now it's possible to have the school's entire library stored on something weighing under a pound.

    40. Re:Uh... by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is, I don't even know if you're joking.

      Read the article and in particular the "Thanks to iPhome founder..." attribution at the end of the article to realize he's not joking.

    41. Re:Uh... by NameIsDavid · · Score: 2, Informative

      How you do pay "a lot more" for an iPad? A 10.1" Galaxy Tab is the same price as the iPad as of this moment on a reasonable site such as Amazon.com. And that's without Apple's excellent customer support (phone and retail store), without the ability to extend the warranty an extra year and without the high resale value which reduces total cost of ownership considerably.

    42. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, what you're saying is they're paying too much for tablets.

    43. Re:Uh... by Macrat · · Score: 1

      I got internet on a 28.8kbit line in 1996.

      You couldn't get 128kps ISDN?

    44. Re:Uh... by nightfell · · Score: 1

      Which is pretty sad. They're presenting text and maybe some images, the "textbooks" should be platform agnostic.

      Why? Why, instead of "platform agnostic", why not use the best platform? Isn't "the right tool for the job" the geek mantra?

      Although, what "the right tool" really tends to mean is "whatever happens to be my tool of choice".

    45. Re:Uh... by nightfell · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, what they need is a system that gets out of their way and lets them focus on the classwork at hand. Apparently the iPad is more suitable for this than the competition.

      If you're focusing on root access, then you are focusing on a secondary aspect that really has very little impact on the primary needs being addressed. I thought geeks were supposed to be against form over function? Isn't this a somewhat fundamentalist version of that?

    46. Re:Uh... by m.ducharme · · Score: 1

      See, I was hoping to avoid acquiring that particular bit of knowledge, alas.

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    47. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahahaha! You're just crying because Linux is nothing more than a generic OS for losers who don't want to pay for an OS. Manufacturers use it because they don't have to pay for it, not because it's good. When you're building integrated devices you don't have to worry about the software being good.

    48. Re:Uh... by thsths · · Score: 2

      > Apparently the iPad is more suitable for this than the competition.

      Out of the box, yes. But with Android you could customise the system for a specific use, such as teaching, maybe giving the teacher control over the tablets while they are in class.

      I think we are just at the very beginning of this process, and whatever we do now will look very crude very soon.

    49. Re:Uh... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      An e-reader would be pretty much limited to text-book and hand-outs replacement. A tablet gives them access to all sorts of touch based educational apps too. If you RTFA, you'll see that that's part of it.

    50. Re:Uh... by nightfell · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're just handwaving here to justify your particular version of form over function.

      "Um, Android is open, so, something, something, better!"

      There are at least three fundamental flaws with this.

      1. "something, something" doesn't exist. It's possible to exist, but it doesn't. When it exists, then let's talk. Until then, it's of absolutely no value.
      2. The false notion that teachers are Matrix Hacker Gurus who want nerdlike power over classroom iPads.
      3. You're still talking about a secondary aspect. Even if "something, something" existed, and teachers were wanting to micromanage classroom tablets in realtime, that doesn't address the fundamental reason for the class in the first place, which is to educate.

      iPads are highly capable quality products that everyone is familiar with, that people want and enjoy using, and that has primary developer focus providing for an abundance of first-class classroom apps. They require very little administration overhead. Ok, so they don't let you customize the shit out of them. That's fine on a personal level, where you might prefer customization over all those other aspects, or even in some specialized organizational uses, where you might want to deploy a fleet of highly tailored tablets. But what value is that in a classroom?

      You're going to have to provide more than "something, something" if you want to overcome some very real benefits, that actually exist right now, which significantly favor the iPad.

    51. Re:Uh... by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      For all of apple's evils, UI design is something they got right. Now I have an android phone and ehm a win 7 tablet (from work), as well as a touch. I do take advantage of the additional functionality in android (free tether ftw), but in terms of simple yet elegant design, I think my touch makes finding things the easiest and most intuitive of the 3. An e reader would work, but only offers a fraction of the functionality, I can see an advantage in having a browser while your reading, as well as internet connectivity say for a more interactive textbook experience. The biggest issue I can see is the cost, ipads and all apple products are expensive, some would argue overpriced. In terms of functionality though, the difference is in approach and thats like say apple has something like sticky notes, the best thing I was able to find in android was evernote, but that requires setup and an account, while taking notes is achievable with both devices, the apple happens to have this out the box, the android requires time and research, so I can see the reasoning behind the decision to go with apple, we're talking about general education here, not an IT lab.

    52. Re:Uh... by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      The iPad does not retail for (much) more than tablets of similar spec, and Apple has always offered educational discounts.

      But you don't need tablets of iPad spec for educational use, so they do cost significantly more than is necessary. Something like the Fire might not be specced high enough for the latest 3D games, but it would be perfectly adequate for textbooks and supplementary material.

    53. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 0

      Did you not consider the possibility that most other MP3 players sucked, so they went with the iPod because it best suited their needs? That's even more of the case with tablets. The iPad is the #1 tablet by a huge margin because it beats competitors on responsiveness, price, application availability, and design. It almost sounds more like you simply don't like things that are popular.

    54. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 1

      How on Earth is it "pretty sad?" They've decided that the iPad suits their needs better than most of the junky competing tablets. There's a reason the iPad is the dominant tablet right now. How would running an Android tablet (which is what you really want) be any more or less platform agnostic?

    55. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes, the iPad is successful because people are just ignorant. Please continue to repeat the usual Slashdot myth used to explain away why Linux versions of things aren't as popular as closed-source versions of things. There couldn't possibly be any other factors involved.

      The level of bitterness in these comments is really sad.

    56. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 1

      You've actually got that completely backwards. Companies go to great pains to prevent their trademarked names from being diluted to the point that they become generic terms for a product category

      People here are desperately trying to come up with rationalizations explaining why textbooks are being replaced with iPads rather than other choices they think are better, so you're going to get a lot of completely wrong statements. The post you're responding to wants to believe that evil commercialization has made people completely unaware of any alternatives to the iPad because they supposedly think that all tablets are iPads. At my local Walmart, there are non-iPad tablets sold right next to the iPads, and non-iPods sold right next to the iPods, yet the iPads and iPods sell.

      The narrative is that, somehow, alternatives to the iPad would be better (no examples are actually given because most iPad competitors, frankly, suck) but that evil commercialization and ignorance made the inferior product successful. It's a tired cliche that will live forever on Slashdot to explain away the success of anything they don't like.

    57. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 0

      I know you're trolling, but honestly, many Android fans have become the most annoying people on the planet, even worse than Apple fanboys. Even troll sites like SomethingAwful have had to specifically call out Android fans and ban them on the spot on their forums for obsessive platform trolling. They out-troll the trolls.

    58. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 1

      Why would they use the Kindle for textbooks? The Kindle is black-and-white and doesn't support the kind of interactivity an iPad would.

      Have people lost their minds around here or something? Just because an article exists about something that is a product doesn't mean it's just a big advertisement. You wouldn't even be saying all this if it was written about a product you happened to like, such as an Android device. But because it's the iPad--which Slashdotters have decided they don't like because it's popular--suddenly it's just pandering to Apple.

      Grow up!

    59. Re:Uh... by bonch · · Score: 0

      It must be bizarro world today because your post is modded -1 even though what you stated is 100% correct. The iPad is the most popular tablet by a very wide margin, and it's because it's a good product. Slashdot has become so out-of-touch that they actually think it's due to some evil commercial conspiracy. I haven't seen this kind of pseudo-rationalization since the days when Windows 98 was dominant and Linux on the desktop was always around the corner.

    60. Re:Uh... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      I was online in 1989. I remember people saying that people would still study on books 15 years from 1996 too. And you know what? They still do. I'm guessing you haven't been in school in a few years, but most universities and colleges only provide books in dead tree form.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    61. Re:Uh... by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      Why would they use the Kindle for textbooks? The Kindle is black-and-white and doesn't support the kind of interactivity an iPad would.

      Have people lost their minds around here or something? Just because an article exists about something that is a product doesn't mean it's just a big advertisement. You wouldn't even be saying all this if it was written about a product you happened to like, such as an Android device. But because it's the iPad--which Slashdotters have decided they don't like because it's popular--suddenly it's just pandering to Apple.

      Grow up!

      No, I'd say the same thing if it were about an Android device too.

      Have you watched the video included in the PCWorld article? It's nothing but a product placement ad for iPhome. You need an iPad, of course.

      But the fact is, the article doesn't extol any positive virtue the iPad may have. Really. Go and read the article and watch the video. If anything, the one teacher being interviewed in the video downplays the iPad itself.

    62. Re:Uh... by Mithent · · Score: 1

      Like I said, if people look at what's available on the market and decide that the iPad is the tablet they want, that's fine. What disappoints me is that, to many people, the iPad is /the/ tablet - they don't go looking for a tablet and decide they prefer the iPad to the competition, they just make a beeline for the iPads and buy one of them without thinking (or, perhaps, even knowing) about anything else available. Sure, it means that Apple's marketing and their favourable press coverage works. But I'd rather that people actually make an informed decision rather than be blind to the alternatives.

    63. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely you can have more control and write such apps, but it's probably going to cost more to custom-make such apps.

    64. Re:Uh... by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      > You couldn't get 128kps ISDN?
      And pass the opportunity of keeping the phone line occupied by the modem all the time? Geez was I productive back them. Sorry, phone, BRB.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    65. Re:Uh... by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      > Companies go to great pains to prevent their trademarked names from being diluted to the point that they become generic terms for a product category.

      Yes, but it happens after they name their windowing system "windows", their word processor "word", their crude packaging system "app store".
      It's a way to bully the potential competitor on a different ground that product merits.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    66. Re:Uh... by godglike · · Score: 1

      This is a silly argument: PCs have programs, they should be sold in ProgStores.

      Apple has always talked about Applications: even the file type was APPL.

      Partly I'm sure this was an in-joke (is APPL short for APPLication or APPLe?) but it's in their programming and UI design books, the file system, and the Mac API.

      Meanwhile PCs have the "Programs" menu and the "Program Files" directory. API-wise there is no program concept that I know of, only windows. So an App store for a PC or Windows tablet would be silly and confusing.

      Google can call the android executables what it likes but if it uses Programs or Applications then it's copying Microsoft or Apple respectively. Android Units maybe?

    67. Re:Uh... by JimboFBX · · Score: 1

      Well, windows/DOS has "exe" (pronounced EX-ey)

      I throw people off when I say "no, don't click the icon, click the exey!"

    68. Re:Uh... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Apple has always had a strong educational support program at the K-12 level. Schools are using iPads because of the connections and support structure Apple has been building with them since the 1980s. It's not a reflection of the iPad being better or safer, it's a reflection of the schools feeling more comfortable with using Apple's tablets because Apple has been there, helping them with technology in education for the past 3 decades. They know their Apple educational sales rep. They probably send each other Christmas cards this time of year, while their kids make snowmen at the local park together. The Samsung tablet sales rep is just a traveling salesman to them.

      Microsoft's educational support program doesn't really kick in until university/college level.

    69. Re:Uh... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      +1 Underrated, just where are my mod points when I need them

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    70. Re:Uh... by EricTheO · · Score: 0

      I got internet on a 28.8kbit line in 1996.
      If somebody told me: look, in 15 years they will still study on books I would have ROTFLMAO.

      Obviously you don't read Science Fiction. ;-)

      --
      -Eric
    71. Re:Uh... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The reasons organisations go for Apple products are a mixture of (1) ignorance as to the better alternatives (2) being taken in my neat design and appearance and (3) bribery by Apple.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    72. Re:Uh... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Fuck off, you can get an Android tablet for less than half an iPad.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    73. Re:Uh... by Glock27 · · Score: 1

      But you don't need tablets of iPad spec for educational use, so they do cost significantly more than is necessary.

      That's entirely a supposition on your part. The iPad screen is a lot closer in form factor to a traditional textbook than the Fire's. What about kids with vision problems?

      Something like the Fire might not be specced high enough for the latest 3D games, but it would be perfectly adequate for textbooks and supplementary material.

      It would indeed need to be "something like the Fire" and not "the Fire" since one of the major complaints with the Fire is lack of parental control settings. As to "perfectly adequate", that would depend on what apps were desired to run, and which are available on Android. I'd suggest the iPad is far more likely to get educational content than is the Kindle Fire.

      The Fire is designed to drive Amazon sales, and is much less of a general purpose device than the iPad.

      --
      Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
      Score: -1 100% Flamebait
    74. Re:Uh... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
      On customizing Android systems vs out of the box iPad.

      Oh goodie, we can customize those Android systems. Exactly who is going to customize them? Given the number of students in even small school districts that's a tall order.

      Let's talk about the economics of out of the box versus the staffing costs of yet another computer system that may cost less per unit, yet requires hires to implement them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    75. Re:Uh... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to bet half of the administrators of these schools have never heard of any alternatives to iPads and so never considered any of the more logical choices (e.g.any e-reader)

      Do the e-readers allow you to turn in assignments, create new works, maybe take tests?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    76. Re:Uh... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      you can get an Android tablet for less than half an iPad.

      Ah yes, compare less functionality/quality and cheaper to the best. The Galaxy Tab is priced the same because it is more or less the same as an iPad.

      If you really want Cheap, Big Lots is selling some Android POS for like 50 dollars.

      These high end tablets and their sales are just proof that not everyone is in a race to the bottom. Respectfully, if you want cheap, it is out there. Some do not want cheap.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    77. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's so not true. Each tablet is so unique that they look nothing alike; if yours is so dirty that you can't immediately see the difference, wipe it off with a Kleenex...

    78. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it be that journalists and teachers are not educated enough to write tablet these days?

    79. Re:Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is why, in the South, all soft drinks are 'Coke'

    80. Re:Uh... by Ofloo · · Score: 1

      The problem is not the technology the problem always has been who will dominate the market, .. if authors wouldn't have been so busy with protecting their asses all the time and same for publishers, .. we might of had those books on laptops/tablets and so forth a long time ago. They really should consider an open system where everyone can publish their crap. I mean if you can do that you wouldn't need publishers anymore, .. which is kind of the problem, rather then taking the approach of fear, ..

    81. Re:Uh... by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      I said iPad specs shouldn't be required for an education tablet or made necessary when making a comparison between education tablets. That's all I said. You've read too much into my post.

      The Fire was just an example of a tablet that doesn't have iPad specs. Replace it with whatever you like.

      The screen size is one part of a tablet's hardware. I don't know whether a 7" screen would be sufficient or not, but do you need the iPad's CPU and GPU?

      And I'm also not saying that iPad isn't the best choice. It might very well be, I would think mostly due to a combination of durability and education support from Apple.

    82. Re:Uh... by Glock27 · · Score: 1

      but do you need the iPad's CPU and GPU?

      That's the eternal question that's usually asked out of complete cluelessness. One does not "need" those features, but perhaps by buying a tablet with them you'll future-proof yourself for a few years. That's well worth whatever additional cost.

      --
      Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
      Score: -1 100% Flamebait
  2. iPad books cost less? by Compaqt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought the standard book industry line was that the cost of printing is only a few dollars, most of the cost is for authors, editors, copywriters, etc., and that's why e-books are priced very near print books.

    That should be doubly so for textbooks because you're not just making up stories and writing them down plus you have to have special content like illustrations, photographs, and quizzes.

    There aren't special discounts because the e-book is being sold for the iPad, are there?

    "iPad books cost so much less...It's a legal alternative for students who are using BitTorent [to pirate books]."

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:iPad books cost less? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      with actual textbooks(for 3rd graders), you'd think that doing superficial changes to layout is the biggest cost beside printing.

      the books for that cost what they cost because they can cost. think of the children etc..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:iPad books cost less? by gander666 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The case of textbooks is special for many reasons. First, students (and I am talking University Students here) MUST buy them. No choice in the matter. Second, there has long been a lively secondary market for used books. This infuriated the main line publishers, that they couldn't get fresh money for fresh books every semester/quarter/year. Third, to counter this, they collude with the authors, and have frequent revisions. Never changing much, but enough that lesson plans would be altered with the wrong edition text. Thus, it is rare that a text is god for more than 2 years between revisions.

      Couple that with the fact that there is a limited run on text books (never a large production run), a captive market, and thus really high prices, and you get a very warped market. The publishers are actually happy to sell a reduced price electronic version, DRM'd, to each student, and cut out the secondary resellers.

      That said, when I chased my Physics degree, for my core, I always bought new, marked them up, and keep them. Today, my two volumes of Graduate level Quantum server merely to intimidate coworkers.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    3. Re:iPad books cost less? by Scr4tchFury · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are no discounts. The students are downloading illegal copies of books.

    4. Re:iPad books cost less? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Couple that with the fact that there is a limited run on text books (never a large production run), a captive market, and thus really high prices, and you get a very warped market. The publishers are actually happy to sell a reduced price electronic version, DRM'd, to each student, and cut out the secondary resellers.

      Which of course makes the argument bogus, if you lost the resale value they didn't actually become any better value. But that's what you get when you use math from the ed-uh-cation department.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It can be cheaper, look at CourseSmart.com.

    6. Re:iPad books cost less? by fafaforza · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The electronic version might be cheaper, but it will be cheaper by 5%, or some trivial amount like that, just like eBooks. iPad versions of text books won't "cost so much less."

    7. Re:iPad books cost less? by dr2chase · · Score: 1

      I don't know how long this will list. Middle child heads straight off to the Khan Academy when he wants a second opinion on one subject or another. Oldest child was so pissed at his thermo textbook, that he spent a summer trying to write his own. Textbooks for older kids are just documents, they don't need some fancy app.

    8. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      May I introduce to you "the lie": It is a statement that is factually false, uttered by an entity, for its advantage (usually to the detriment of others).

      It's not like printing companies are some hidden mysterious places. You can go there and get a quote for your book and even have them print it for real (they also answer E-Mail).

    9. Re:iPad books cost less? by v1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Second, there has long been a lively secondary market for used books. This infuriated the main line publishers, that they couldn't get fresh money for fresh books every semester/quarter/year.

      Until you get to college anyway. Then the publishers "lobby" the professors just like big corps lobby the congressmen, and get them to change what textbook they "require" for their class every few years. Books bought in the spring for $250 are bought back by the book stores that fall for $24 because they won't be used there next semester.

      It would be nice if universities required the profs to list the book costs and the average resale value of books bought for their classes in the course list. Then when you had three profs teaching African History and two of them have average end costs of $100 and one has $300 because the prof keeps changing books, enrollment for that one prof plummets and his department head threatens to cut that class off the list. That's the only way to fix that problem.

      Hard to say how effective it would be though - so many college students haven't learned how to manage money and are on a "spend/charge/loan now, worry about pay later when I get a lucrative job" attitude that they really don't pay as much attention to up-front costs as they should.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    10. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Third, to counter this, they collude with the authors, and have frequent revisions.

      Just as a clarification for non-US readers, the authors are frequently the Professors who are delivering the lessons.

      This explains why they set exercises from the text books ( e.g. Page 20 Exercise 2 ) instead of having prepared their own exercise curriculum discrete from the questions in the book: they directly profit from the text book upgrade cycle.

    11. Re:iPad books cost less? by robthebloke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not when you figure in the cost of the iPad, and the inevitable cost of replacing them at least 5 times owing to smashed screens after various playground antics.

    12. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      khhhhhhaaaaaaAAAAAANNNN

    13. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      [the authors (professors)] directly profit from the text book upgrade cycle.

      Having actually talked to a professor that published his own book for a class: no, no they don't.

    14. Re:iPad books cost less? by MisterSquid · · Score: 4, Informative

      It would be nice if universities required the profs to list the book costs and the average resale value of books bought for their classes in the course list. Then when you had three profs teaching African History and two of them have average end costs of $100 and one has $300 because the prof keeps changing books, enrollment for that one prof plummets and his department head threatens to cut that class off the list. That's the only way to fix that problem.

      You act as if professors work in the bookstore with a database of book prices open on their computers. Having been university faculty, I know professors are "shielded" frrom the price of the books they select for pedagogical (as opposed to financial) reasons. Usually, faculty submit a list with titles and authors to administrative staff who then notify ordering faculty of new editions and other changes to the book order. Faculty get desk copies that have no price; faculty do not know how much the books they choose to best teach the subject cost.

      In your scenario, it's quite likely that the faculty requiring more expensive texts will have better, more authoritative, more current texts than the faculty with less-expensive texts. Price is not a guarantee of quality, but it sometimes provides a quick index to value.

      --
      blog
    15. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 4, Informative

      The cost difference between my wife's Math textbooks and their equivalent e-book version was $400 for us last semester. In other words, an iPad pays for itself in one semester of school.

    16. Re:iPad books cost less? by microcars · · Score: 4, Informative

      The kids are using APPS, not eBooks.
      The quote is from someone going to college that says the iPad eBooks are cheaper.
      Being an iPad-using college student myself, I can tell you that when there is an actual eBook available (ePub or PDF), it is about 1/2 the list price of the hardcover "textbook".
      However, the secondary market is eliminated as it is not easy to sell a DRM'ed eBook, so the cost savings are upfront only.
      You end up paying the same price over the life of the course compared to students who buy the books at list price and then sell them later for 1/2 price.

      --
      I like microcars
    17. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is absolutely wrong. My wife's Math books last semester were $400 more for the text book over the e-book version. That paid for our new iPad.

    18. Re:iPad books cost less? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But they are not. My wife has available most of her college textbooks on kindle or ipad. They cost the SAME as the paper book. but you can "rent" them for 3 months instead.

      Fun part is it's easy to crack the "rent" feature and strip the DRM so you can keep the book.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a discount to me.

    20. Re:iPad books cost less? by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Many professors hardly ever use their textbooks, making having the things a waste. Not only do they not know the cost (which they could easily look up if they ever cared to), but they listed as required a book that was never opened. It's one thing if you require and use a textbook; it's an entirely different story if you never even use it.

      For example, when I took Calculus III, we never even opened the textbook once. All lessons were done old school with a chalkboard and overhead projector. We didn't even use the book for assignments; we were given homemade worksheets and electronically posted problems. It was the same for the previous two courses: We never cracked the book open except for a single instance in Calc I.

      --
      SSC
    21. Re:iPad books cost less? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You haven't seen grade school ipad cases. you can beat someone to death with the screen side and cause no damage to the screen. I watched a kindergarten psychopath kid go insane on one and jump up and down on it.

      I am trying to track down what the case is and if it's available in black instead of bright purple.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    22. Re:iPad books cost less? by paleo2002 · · Score: 1

      Textbook publishers were hating secondary markets before the games industry made it cool.

      New editions with minor revisions is an old trick. Back in college, my mineralogy class was disappointed to find out that the bookstore dumped all the used copies of the textbook because a new edition had just come out. The new edition had a helpful page near the front that listed what had changed since the previous edition: a handful of photo credits and the addition of a list of mineralogy research award recipients in chapter 2.

      But, online used book sellers are making this trick less effective. The latest tactic is custom books. They're just like the regular edition of the textbook, but with chapters missing or rearranged and the school's name and logo printed on the cover. Nobody is going to buy some other school's version of a book online and students would rather sell the book back to the bookstore for a pittance than gamble of finding a fellow student to sell to the next semester.

      I've had publishing reps visit me at work a few times, trying to convince me to switch to custom books. I tell them I'm just a lowly adjunct and have no say in what books my department uses. Besides, the official textbook for my class is in its 4th ed. but I haven't seen any useful changes from the 1st ed., so I still use that.

    23. Re:iPad books cost less? by supercrisp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The production runs on textbooks are not that small. In fact, I'd describe them as large. But what those words mean can vary from person to person. Yeah, a textbook probably doesn't have a print run like a best seller, but few books do. The problem I have with iPads is twofold: one, it is an expensive device, and not all professors will adopt ebooks; and, two, many students will use the device to play Angry Birds or check Facebook instead of paying attention in class. If we are to adopt ebooks, I'd much prefer something that can also work on a laptop or PC, so that students are not forced to purchase two devices. I'm very troubled by what is happening in the textbook market, the increased lock-in. I'm working with some other faculty members at my institution for (English) classes without textbooks, or with reduced textbooks, by using more online or library content. But a major problem is that the salespeople for textbook companies are pretty effective, making promises about saving money and online features. Then a lot of faculty are technophobic or barely tech-competent, so the traditional textbook gets the nod because it's familiar.

    24. Re:iPad books cost less? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The case of textbooks is special for many reasons. First, students (and I am talking University Students here) MUST buy them. No choice in the matter.

      I actually got through a couple of classes by sharing a book with a classmate... not a 100% solution, but it can work.

    25. Re:iPad books cost less? by gander666 · · Score: 1

      That won't work for an upper division Physics class. You begin to dream the mathematics you are studying so much. GE and less stress courses, much more likely.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    26. Re:iPad books cost less? by supercrisp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Many institutions now require faculty to put the cost of textbooks on the order sheets. Why? Well, believe it or not, the book reps and publishers take some pains to obscure, obfuscate, mislead, lie, etc about the cost of texts. I teach English, but I can readily understand why some faculty in math and the sciences would welcome the "churn" of frequent new editions. Changed problem sets really help cut down on cheating, which is rampant at universities these days. Online tools have made it very easy. It is time consuming to generate problem sets, and it's more time consuming to track down and "prosecute" cheaters. Note: I'm not saying anything about what's right or fair. But, given the fact that faculty are made responsible for more and more work, we tend to do what we can to keep our work load reasonable. That means that cost/effort will be pushed on to students. And since it's very difficult to get more effort, it tends to shift toward cost. It's one of those situations in which "externalities" impact the bottom end and in which the bad actors/game defectors force costs onto the community. As for the idea that delisting a professor's courses will encourage better behavior.... Oh boy, that's so wrong. Do you really think that letting a slacker slack will motivate better behavior? Any prof who gives a damn is already trying to figure out what to do about the situation. And those who don't give a damn will welcome low enrollments or delisting of courses. If anything, the convention is to threaten poor performers with more teaching. Instead, we should offer incentives for doing the right thing, like granting publication credit for stuff like generating open course texts or teaching packets. And to do that, schools would have to pay for an editorial board (with course releases) that gives the process oversight and credibility. I dunno. This whole discussion generally lacks on key idea: the professors are consumers as much as the students. But they are subsidized consumers......

    27. Re:iPad books cost less? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How so? Part of the reason they charge so much for textbooks (not all of the reason by any means, but definitely part of it) is that they know there's a thriving market in used books. Especially for books used in non-core classes, a textbook company can expect that at best one in three students who are taking a class that uses their book will actually buy the book. A textbook is current for usually four to six semesters, but you have to figure that at least some students will buy new on principle, even in non-core classes. It's probably more like one in four, but we'll go with three. Let's also assume that production of the physical book is 15% of the cost of the book (it might be less, but text books are legitimately more expensive to print because of the higher paper quality and often having lots of color pictures).

      So you have an e-book version that (thanks to DRM) you can guarantee will get sold to every single student who takes a class using it, plus you save the 15% on production costs. You can probably sell it for 1/3 of the amount you sell the dead tree version for, undercut used book prices, and still make more than you used to. On top of that, if you can get most students to use the e-book instead of the physical book, you can slow down your release cycle (since you no longer have to worry as much about students cutting into your profits by buying used) and save still more money.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    28. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For this reason is why I would usually *wait* until about the 2nd-3rd week to buy the 'extra' books. I would say the average was 3-6 books. Yet they would barely open 1 of them. Had one lit teacher that had 15, we read 2 and most of the 3rd.

      My calc classes were different. They used them all.

      Teachers are also fairly understanding if you say 'hey I have last years edition'. They will sometimes fiddle the assignments for you. Another way is to buddy up with someone and split the cost. This was ever an issue maybe once on a critical assignment. In that case we went over to the library and snagged an older copy.

      There is a *small* window here will they will be cheaper. They are trying to drive people to use them more. In 5-10 years they will be back to regular scheduled prices.

    29. Re:iPad books cost less? by microcars · · Score: 1

      ...many students will use the device to play Angry Birds or check Facebook instead of paying attention in class. If we are to adopt ebooks, I'd much prefer something that can also work on a laptop or PC,...

      because of course you can't play games or check Facebook on your laptop in class.

      --
      I like microcars
    30. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Publishers lobby professors? A few try but guess what? I, along with every colleague I work with, MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS! We don't get kickbacks, we don't get suckered into buying something inappropriate. We all are VERY conscious of costs for books and do everything we can to minimize the amounts required. We donate books to the library for "reserve" use, meaning that students who can't afford or refuse to pay for books can still take our courses.

      I really hate it when people who know nothing about teaching get up on their high horse and make wild generalizations based on "someone" they once knew or heard about.

    31. Re:iPad books cost less? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      That won't work for an upper division Physics class. You begin to dream the mathematics you are studying so much. GE and less stress courses, much more likely.

      The last Physics class I took taught Greens functions and two other mathematical concepts whose names I have forgotten in the ensuing decades - textbook sharing would have worked quite well in there, if I had had my traditional study partner with me in the class, since the work was 99% concept, the book was not terribly helpful. Actually, I don't remember clearly if there was a book, there were a lot of lecture notes, sketches, etc.

    32. Re:iPad books cost less? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      faculty do not know how much the books they choose to best teach the subject cost.

      I'd be suspicious of getting a degree from a university where the professors are too incompetent to simply pull up the book on Amazon and see how much it costs.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    33. Re:iPad books cost less? by Brannoncyll · · Score: 1

      The case of textbooks is special for many reasons. First, students (and I am talking University Students here) MUST buy them. No choice in the matter.

      I don't know about that. I have a degree and doctorate in Physics, and I am halfway through my first postdoc - the only time I ever bought textbooks was in the first year of my undergrad before I realised that the university libraries almost always have multiple copies of any standard textbook that they will lend out for months at a time for free.

    34. Re:iPad books cost less? by thejaq · · Score: 1

      Your experience is not common among the 30,000 undergraduate students at my university. University wide, the cost of text books averages less than $500/semester new and less than $300/used. A survey suggested that the average ebook discount is less than a that for used books... Furthermore, I would be extremely surprised if the numbers were different at any other large public university. Your experience is not typical..

    35. Re:iPad books cost less? by scottbomb · · Score: 2

      When the book costs upwards of $200-300, expect those illegal downloads to increase.

    36. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 4, Informative

      Your experience is not typical..

      Says you? I doubt that the University of Texas, with 60,000 students, is atypical of anything. It's probably the most typical model out there, as far as tech-savvy undergrad programs go.

      My wife's Math books were going to be about $600 for the semester (four books). The same four books were less than $200 as ebooks. That paid for an iPad. Multiply that by two semesters a year and 60,000 students and that's a lot of savings. Of course not all students will have the same price disparity as my wife's books, but pretty much all e-book versions are at least half the price of the print version ($150 versus $30 in one case)...at least on large US campuses.

      Outside of Academia I don't see a lot of cost savings. Game of Thrones on iTunes is $8.99. I think the paperback version is $5.99.

    37. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in Chem 101 my textbook was written by the faculty who taught the class, printed in the next town over, and a new edition came out just about every year. However, they did charge roughly one-quarter the price of my other textbooks (some also written by the faculty) so maybe they were actually championing fair play?

      I'm going to go ahead and say that while the ideal may be "shielding" the faculty from that sort of thing, it is an old system fraught with kickbacks and outright graft.

    38. Re:iPad books cost less? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      So you have an e-book version that (thanks to DRM) you can guarantee will get sold to every single student who takes a class using it, plus you save the 15% on production costs. You can probably sell it for 1/3 of the amount you sell the dead tree version for, undercut used book prices, and still make more than you used to. On top of that, if you can get most students to use the e-book instead of the physical book, you can slow down your release cycle (since you no longer have to worry as much about students cutting into your profits by buying used) and save still more money.

      I see where we differ, I was thinking no better for students. Yes, the publishers will make a killing and on top of that students will need to cash out for an iPad with no option of doing it on the cheap. If three people can use a $50 book through used sales it's not better for them than each paying $20 for a DRM'd version.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    39. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the publishers "lobby" the professors just like big corps lobby the congressmen, and get them to change what textbook they "require" for their class every few years.

      That's not so much how it works. What the publishers do is put something in the contract that requires the author to create a new edition after a certain time interval--completely independent of whether it is needed or not. This is why popular books like Stewart's Calculus are on their 8th (or is it higher now?) edition, and they are all pretty good books. This effectively kills off the used book market every so often.

    40. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't understand the utility of the Ipad. I can read books fine on a back-lit IPS screen, so instead of using a small tablet I find that a (comparatively cheap) 24" vertically mounted monitor is the best experience (some prefer a 20-22" vertical), but I can still see how books are more comfortable. On the other hand my wife cannot read on back-lit screens for long durations, but she finds e-ink displays an acceptable alternative, and with the latest e-ink displays I myself can't say books are more comfortable.
      So I can see people using e-ink readers as an alternative to reading on a big screen, but don't try to rationalize the purchase of a tablet. You just wanted an Ipad plain and simple, otherwise the $99 kindle would have been much better at reading books anyway.
      And to save the $400 you claim per semester (which sounds suspicious, usually that is the full-price total of the books for a semester, do you just download pirated versions?), apart from the fact that as I mentioned above the Ipad is not the best reader unless you want specifically an Ipad, you don't even have to go that way to save on textbooks. No, I am not talking about second-hand books (which is always an option to consider), but for the positive sciences most books can be ordered in the special-price Indian editions. That's how I got most of my grad school books, at around $15 each down from $100... And no, I am not Indian, but it was a well known fact among budget conscious students.

    41. Re:iPad books cost less? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      students (and I am talking University Students here) MUST buy them

      Really? Funny how all the universities I have seen have had one of these lying around:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library

      Professors can request that libraries make copies of textbooks available to students. This is especially true in cases where the library has multiple copies of a textbook (e.g. for basic courses in calculus or physics) and where the material is not being updated with each new edition (which is essentially the case with all textbooks these days). The publishing industry has tried to pull underhanded tactics where they switch around practice problems, but professors are not obligated to assign problems from the book.

      Additionally I have seen plenty of textbook sharing among students, at least when it comes to doing homework. Students are in no way obligated to buy all of their textbooks if they do not want a copy.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    42. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy used, dumbass.

    43. Re:iPad books cost less? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      The point is that if you are going to pirate you don't need the Ipad and, in fact, you would be much better off with a cheaper e-ink reader (or save even that and use your pc/laptop).

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    44. Re:iPad books cost less? by Sechr+Nibw · · Score: 1

      Even if that is the case, that you get the same price via an iPad app/eBook, after factoring in selling the book later, that sounds like a win to me. You'll have the book later, if you ever wish to peruse it again, and you can search/highlight/unhighlight parts of the book. Also, you have justification to make your parents buy you an iPad!

    45. Re:iPad books cost less? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The iPad can work fine as a laptop for most people's purposes with the addition of a keyboard of some kind. I do agree with you that it is too expensive to serve as a textbook, however. For just viewing documents you can pick up something for probably half the price. Hell, give them four kindles, that's one way to solve the screen real estate problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    46. Re:iPad books cost less? by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And putting the problem sets into a textbook, instead of a cheap paperback workbook ensures the buying of new textbooks. They don't need to be in the same heavyweight book.

    47. Re:iPad books cost less? by catmistake · · Score: 4, Funny

      so instead of using a small tablet I find that a (comparatively cheap) 24" vertically mounted monitor is the best experience

      Me too! Its far superior to iPads, and all other tablets, on airplanes, subways, busses, in coffee shops and in the classroom!!

    48. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Na, its just that with these electronic versions "renting" the book is easier, so you can charge the buyer a rental price which is about equal to the initial cost minus what you would get back if you sold it after the semester.

    49. Re:iPad books cost less? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      I think it'll work out cheaper, but probably not quite "pay for the iPad" cheaper. If I recall my college experience, it went like this. Beginning of every semester I'd buy books. Usually six or seven books for my five claseses (sometimes more, I was a History major so I bought a lot of old novels and translations of ancient or medieval source material. There tended to be a lot of these, but they were also much cheaper than real "text books"). I'd be able to get half or less of them used. Used books were sold for 75% of cover, new books for 100% of cover. Also, if it was a core class, I'd buy new so I could mark it up and keep the book. So I usually paid ~90% of cover on average.

      End of the semester, I'd sell the books that weren't core. For a book that wasn't going into a new edition the next semester that meant 50% of cover coming back. If a book was going into a new edition, it was next to nothing if the book store would take it back at all. Plus, of course, I kept books from core courses (which I'd bought new). On a good semester I got 30% of cover back from selling books. So, I paid 90% of cover for the books, and got 30% back. I'm paying, roughly, 60% of cover total. Probably a bit more, occasionally a bit less. If the e-book is 40% of cover, I'm definitely saving bucks. As a bonus I'm keeping all of my books (not just core books), and they aren't taking up a ton of physical space (I still have probably two or three decent sized shelves of books from my undergraduate degree in History, and my graduate degree in Comp Sci).

      In graduate school (where I thankfully had a real job) I bought every book new, and sold none of them back. I'd have saved the cost of an iPad in a few semesters there at 40% of cost. Also consider that while it's not exactly a total cost savings per se, it's generally easier to ask for an iPad for Christmas than a textbook. If you can source the iPad (or any tablet, really) as a gift then the cost savings to your personal budget accrue a lot faster. Plus you can use the tablet for other things.

      The real loser here is the book store. They make 25% of cover on used books, but usually much less on new books. That's why the used book market exists in the first place. The student and the publisher are basically splitting the book store's cut, and the e-books are being sold directly which cuts out the book store entirely on these sales.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    50. Re:iPad books cost less? by catmistake · · Score: 1

      I thought the standard book industry line was that the cost of printing is only a few dollars, most of the cost is for authors, editors, copywriters, etc., and that's why e-books are priced very near print books.

      Its a lie. Traditionally (prior to the existence of eBooks) printing, binding, and distribution account for ~80% of the cost of a real book.

    51. Re:iPad books cost less? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Is it necessarily "dumbass" to enter university at the same time that a required class happens to be using a new edition?

    52. Re:iPad books cost less? by dwightk · · Score: 1

      Additionally, government loans are available to help you pay those exorbitant prices; Exacerbated by the fact that often you can buy extra copies using leftover loan money and sell them to a used bookstore to turn that loan into cash.

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    53. Re:iPad books cost less? by rev0lt · · Score: 1

      I buy a lot of ebooks and often the deadtree version costs 2-3x more. There are some reference books I prefer to have on paper, but for some others it is actually cheaper to print a copy on my laser printer than buying the paper version.

    54. Re:iPad books cost less? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Why are they using them in the playground?

      Also, you put a strong case on them to reduce damage.

    55. Re:iPad books cost less? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      You forgot to log in, dumbass.

    56. Re:iPad books cost less? by microcars · · Score: 2

      ...You'll have the book later, if you ever wish to peruse it again, and you can search/highlight/unhighlight parts of the book.

      That is not always the case. Depending on the publisher, you actually "rent" the books for 6-9 months. At that point your "license" expires and you are no longer able to access the information you purchased a license to access. This market is evolving. This is not the case for all publishers, but it is for many of the ones I looked at.
      One of the Med-Surg books I wanted to keep handy on my iPad was available as a "flash" content file (no iPad) or as individual chapters that could be downloaded that had time-limits on them. (also no more than 3 chapters at a time)
      Since I had purchased the 2000 page two book set already, I tore the cover off, chopped the spine and ran everything through a ScanSnap double-sided scanner creating PDFs. NOW I can keep the book(s) on my iPad, but the initial cost in both time and money is probably beyond the means of the average student.

      --
      I like microcars
    57. Re:iPad books cost less? by sorak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So you have an e-book version that (thanks to DRM) you can guarantee will get sold to every single student who takes a class using it, plus you save the 15% on production costs. You can probably sell it for 1/3 of the amount you sell the dead tree version for, undercut used book prices, and still make more than you used to. On top of that, if you can get most students to use the e-book instead of the physical book, you can slow down your release cycle (since you no longer have to worry as much about students cutting into your profits by buying used) and save still more money.

      I see where we differ, I was thinking no better for students. Yes, the publishers will make a killing and on top of that students will need to cash out for an iPad with no option of doing it on the cheap. If three people can use a $50 book through used sales it's not better for them than each paying $20 for a DRM'd version.

      Interesting, but there are some differences:

      A. The first customer will probably pay $50 for a new book (or $150 in my wife's case), and then have the option to sell back for $15.
      B. The bookstore will mark the book up to $35, keep $20 in profit, and sell it to customer #2.
      C. Customer #2 will sell the book back to the bookstore for $10 or $15. The bookstore will make their profit, and a third customer will come along.
      D. Either the third customer will sell the book back and the bookstore will end up throwing it in the clearance bin, losing money on the book, or the third customer will not have the option to sell back. (assuming that the book is used only 3 times).

      In this scenario, the local bookstore makes money*, and the customer randomly gets screwed with an occasional requirement to buy a new copy of a book at a heavily inflated price. In the DRM model, everybody pays the same price, Apple gets $6 of your $20 textbook purchase, the publisher gets the remaining $14, and the local college bookstore goes out of business because everybody gets their textbooks from iTunes or The Pirate Bay**.

      * I don't know how much profit total, since you have to factor in overhead
      ** Encouraging book manufacturers to provide automated online extras, like test software, that are conveniently located "in the cloud", and require each student to have a serial number to access.

    58. Re:iPad books cost less? by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      How often does math change? It seems like the math books I used back in the Stone Ages would be just as good now.

    59. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      iPad versions of text books won't "cost so much less."

      But you're wrong, because they do. $150 new text book for $30 in e-book version is the norm at the local University here. That's much more than 5% off.

    60. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Graduate level Quantum server

      Is that a Microsoft product? Maybe so-named because data disappears at random?

    61. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You are getting screwed. Books at the University of Texas that sell in the $100-$150 range sell for $25-$30 in the e-book form.

    62. Re:iPad books cost less? by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I've been out of school for a while, and only point of reference are ebook novels and such, which don't engender much love for pricing of electronic versions.

    63. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Still, a used book that was $150 is likely to cost around $80-$90, when the e-book was $30.

      The e-book doesn't weigh anything. There's no standing in long lines at book store rush times. The text book doesn't have interactive search capability. My wife doesn't break her back lugging 50 lbs. of books around a giant, sweltering campus. Who's the dumbass again?

    64. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've said that at least twice... but I looked up the books required for my undergrad management degree for this semester, and 3 out of 4 weren't even in the iTunes store. They were on Amazon for about $20/ea cheaper than new (which was still more expensive than used books).

    65. Re:iPad books cost less? by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 2

      "many students will use the device to play Angry Birds or check Facebook instead of paying attention in class"

      So? If they didn't have that they would be sleeping or doodling or writing something else or planning out their week or checking out the other students. Professors should be able to hold the attention of most of the students; if not, maybe they should try something other than teaching. I've taught a number of university courses and always tried to make them sufficiently interesting and engaging so that the students would want to pay attention. There are always the students who will do other things but they also usually do not do well in the course either.

    66. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      As if you get to chose which text books to use in College Math classes...

    67. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      ebooks for popular fiction don't benefit from the huge discounts like academic books do. This is because there's a huge false markup built into academic books that the e-book versions don't use.

    68. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the college I went to they have it setup so that when you order on line you pick you class and section and it shows teacher and then the book with price. I would go back and forth checking the book price and then with that decide if I liked the teaching style of the professor before I would sign up. I only used the book price if I had a tie deciding which professor's class I wanted. If I liked both the cheapest book won, if I didn't like any of the teachers the cheapest book won out. I never had grants or loans I did it out of my own pocket so ever penny counted. I just hated it when there was only professor teaching a subject and I had to go with it no matter what the book cost.

    69. Re:iPad books cost less? by AtomicJake · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely wrong. My wife's Math books last semester were $400 more for the text book over the e-book version. That paid for our new iPad.

      OK, now we know the difference. How is this possible? Did the textbooks cost $800 and by using the electronic versions you got 50% off - or did you pirate textbooks that cost otherwise $400?

      And, what I also do not understand: I also studied Math and Physics; textbooks cost some money, but $400 per semester is quite a lot.

    70. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      No pirating at all. She went to the online bookstore...the option is buy physical book for $150, or buy the e-book version for $30.

      I"m sure the e-book version expires or has some encumbering DRM associated with it, but for 1/5th the price, who cares?

      Her physical books were to be about $600, and the equivalent ebooks were $200. With a discount, that is the price of the cheapest iPad2.

    71. Re:iPad books cost less? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I teach English, but I can readily understand why some faculty in math and the sciences would welcome the "churn" of frequent new editions. Changed problem sets really help cut down on cheating, which is rampant at universities these days. Online tools have made it very easy. It is time consuming to generate problem sets, and it's more time consuming to track down and "prosecute" cheaters.

      95% of my university courses - it didn't matter. If they had a "homework" component to their course, it really only weighed in at around 5-10% of your final grade (the midterms were "heavily" weighted at 20-30%, with the finals being 50-90% of the final mark in the end). Cheat all you want - it ain't worth much and you're just screwing yourself during the finals. Heck, some assign homework that isn't even checked!

      As for expensive textbooks - in the end a few friends of mine ended up committing copyright infringement at the just-off-campus copy store. We'd get a counter from the clerk, stick it int he copy machine and spend the afternoon copying. The first copy was hard, but the next generation (it didn't degrade significantly as a copy-of-a-copy is still quite readable) went quickly as all one needed was to use the document feeder. It turned a $150 textbook into something that was $15 for each person (we'd return the textbook afterwards). And it's only for a few courses - we'd lend and trade our copies about.

      The iPad just makes it harder to do all those things, but easier to carry around all your books...

    72. Re:iPad books cost less? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      Exactly, this is my experience as well. I definitely get the equivalent of drug reps visiting my office hours and trying to sell me on the virtues of their books. I'm not interested in any of them, but I make a point to ask, after the mention of every title, "How much would this one cost my students? [evasive answer of the sort 'It's not much, I'd have to check...'] No, how much exactly?" Hopefully the reps will eventually report this sort of thing up the chain. And I'll even go further and say that I knowingly go right up to the edge of illegality to hook up my students with valuable readings that they don't have to pay for. The electronic library reserve system is the college student's best friend, and in some cases, it allows the textbook costs of my classes to sink to $0.

    73. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Textbooks that cost $150 are usually Hardcover, many textbook publishers have paperback version on cheap paper stock that are much cheaper. If they have a paperback version the ebook version is usually slightly cheaper than the paperback. If there is no paperback version the ebook is slightly cheaper than the hardcover.

      You of course can always find used versions of both hardcover and paperback for much cheaper than new, and so usually cheaper than an ebook, plus you can still sell it back.

      If you still want to make your outrageous claim, please list your wifes books, so we can actually verify your claim

    74. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This anecdote directly conflicts with my anecdote which involves two professors (one Chemistry, one Physics) profiting from text books they've authored.

    75. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! What class(es) did your wife take? I never even spent a *total* of $400 on math books, and this includes the semesters in grad school taking 3 grad level courses with the very small run pricey books. I teach college math now, and although I could see spending $400 if you are taking calculus/diffeq and one more math class all at the same time, but I can't see *saving* anything close to that amount (in a single semester). The books I've seen from our publishers in e-form well over 50% of the cost of a even a used book, so you'd have to be buying at least $800 worth of paper books to see numbers like that in one semester.

    76. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I have used the Kindle, I am not yet convinced of the value of the tablet computer for use with textbooks. Until I can permanently highlight text and write notes in the margins (as I did for every text I bought for my undergraduate and graduate degrees), I am better served by hardcopy books. I admit that I have saved almost every textbook I ever purchased as they have proven to be an invaluable resources. On the other hand, textbooks for courses that I was compelled to take (like Music of the Cinema), I would have probably been adequately served by an ebook. Unfortunately they were not available before the turn of the century.

    77. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the DRM situation on the E-books? Will she be able to keep them as a reference or do they "expire" in the not-so-distant future?

      By the way, if they do expire (and perhaps, even if they don't...depends on what you're wife plans on doing with them after the semester) the real thing to compare ebook price to is not the "price" of the paper books, but the "price differential" (cost minus sell-back value). If she's taking 4 classes, my bet is she's a grad student, and at least in that regime (IMHO) there is more sell-back opportunity since new editions are much less frequent.

    78. Re:iPad books cost less? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Sadly most of the college bookstores these days are either owned by Barnes and Noble or Follett. There are very few "local college bookstores" left. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I was in the Harvard bookstore a couple of weeks ago (playing tourist, I've always wanted to see the place) and I think it's a Barnes and Noble. Even if it's not, it's one of the very few truly local college bookstores left.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    79. Re:iPad books cost less? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Hmm, the Harvard Bookstore web site swears they're family owned, so maybe it was just me being suspicious.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    80. Re:iPad books cost less? by Libertarian001 · · Score: 1

      I had a class where the professor made a big deal about a particular textbook being required. We never once opened it and it was the last semester that that edition was being used. Afterwards, we were all pretty angry and reported her. The school agreed to issue refunds on the texts, and she received a formal letter of reprimand. And I know that that dinged her on her tenure board because my father sat her board.

    81. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a huge false markup built into academic books that the e-book versions don't use.

      Oh, just let them catch on. Setting random high prices on a stream of ones and zeros is what media industries do best.

    82. Re:iPad books cost less? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Would you mind listing the books? Because I too find the example atypical, especially since we are talking about Math books and not fields like Medicine where I have no idea what is going on. There were no lower cost options, like softcover, or ultra low cost options like international editions? Weren't the prices for actual e-reader versions (say Kindle) similar to the Ipad so you would go for the better reading experience?

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    83. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I'll ask my wife. It's a Probability book, a Discrete Math, a Statistics book and a (non-math) Business Law book. All standard undergraduate stuff for Math majors. The e-books were all $20-$60 and the hardback versions were all over $100. We don't really care to go on wild goose chases for ultra low cost options.

      On a side note: we got the iPad because it's more than just an e-reader, and the other e-readers' software is available on the iPad. We personally don't see any difference in the reading experience from an eye strain point of view, so that's a non-issue for us.

    84. Re:iPad books cost less? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Was she allowed to bring the iPad into the exam?

      Not sure what it's like where you live but more than half of my exams were open book, and calculators but no advanced electronics allowed.

    85. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's incompetence as it is more likely apathy. Since they don't have to pay it, they don't care

    86. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Ok, my wife is home. Discrete Math was $202, ebook version $60. And that's just one class. The semester just ended and the physical book is not eligible for buyback and the ebook expires in 2 months. So, for undergrad purposes (i.e., probably no interest in keeping the books), the ebook is a better deal, because you aren't guaranteed to be able to sell back your expensive text.

    87. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Who said you have to use iTunes? Coursesmart provides an app for their books, one was a Kindle book and the other was a Nook book.

    88. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's quite a bit of depreciation on your wife. $150 to buy and I get only $15 when I sell her? Then again, that's probably normal with all wives.

    89. Re:iPad books cost less? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      I went through the standard Discrete Math books and the only one I see for that price is the Epp one (Discrete Mathematics with Applications at $202.49 on Amazon) - the other ones are cheaper or much cheaper (unless you are talking about another not well-known book, then please elaborate). So, it is indeed very expensive, I don't remember any professor of mine suggesting such an expensive book - if it was over $120 they would apologize for that and tell us we could get the (cheap) previous edition and help us follow with that. However let's see:
      You are comparing BUYING a hardcover for $202 with RENTING an ebook for $60.
      In your universe that might seem like a steal, especially since in your universe you want to rationalize the Ipad purchase.
      In my Universe, the Amazon.com page right under the $202 price lists the trade-in value at $135. So you are only out $67 if you decide not to keep it. But you can keep it if you like it and it will be yours forever and it will not require a specific device to play.
      And it does not end there, you can buy it used for cheaper and still be eligible for trade-in (or sell it on campus, we had a website for that), from my experience if I did not want to keep a book, it usually ended up costing me $0-$30 depending how much effort I put in buying/selling (and there were a couple of occasions where I even made a profit).
      If I wanted to keep a book I usually bought a softcover international version, but that option is not available for this particular textbook, so the only option for owning it seems to be the Hardcover.

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    90. Re:iPad books cost less? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are comparing the price of buying books to that of renting e-books, otherwise the e-books are not less expensive.
      You can either compare the difference of buying books minus re-selling to the next class to the e-book rental price (wanna bet which is lower?), or you can find out if there is a price for actually owning the e-book (i.e. no DRM).

    91. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I went through the standard Discrete Math books and the only one I see for that price is the Epp one (Discrete Mathematics with Applications at $202.49 on Amazon) - the other ones are cheaper or much cheaper (unless you are talking about another not well-known book, then please elaborate).

      Well I'd guess that be the one. Last I checked, you don't buy the book you want, you buy the book required by the class. It's highly unlikely that there'd be another Discrete Math book for exactly $202, so yeah, that's probably the one.

      You are comparing BUYING a hardcover for $202 with RENTING an ebook for $60.

      Exactly. I never contended otherwise. What I'm comparing is the cost of taking this class is $142 cheaper. It turns out there are no buybacks on this book, so if you bought the hard cover, it's yours. If you rented it, you got whatever you got out of the book and you move on. I suppose we could go on Amazon and try to sell used books, but we have better things to do with our time.

      In your universe that might seem like a steal, especially since in your universe you want to rationalize the Ipad purchase.

      Sorry. I already stated neither me nor my wife were in the market for an iPad. Having used hers from time-to-time, I'd find it hard to justify the price without the savings we made in ebook purcha....errr, rentals. With that said, my contention, and the conclusion of TFA is that IF you go the ebook route, the money you save in renting an ebook pays for itself in a semester (my wife's case, granted probably not super-typical), or a couple of semesters. That's a bonus for anyone who wanted to justify the iPad purchase. That, however, was not our intent. My wife had back surgery, and the University of Texas is balls hot and campus is huge. It's no fun lugging four heavy textbooks around campus.

      In my Universe...

      Good for you. My income isn't part of your universe. But since this was MY post, my universe rules apply.

    92. Re:iPad books cost less? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      In this day and age, problem sets don't belong in textbooks. They belong on the school's website. The high school of one of the students I tutored did this for his physics course.

      Not only were the problems independent of the textbook, but the problems he got were different than the problems every other student got. Conceptually, they all got the same problem, but the numbers (mass of the ball, angle of the ramp, radius of the spinning string, etc) were different for each student, probably based on the ID the student used to login. So he couldn't ask his classmates for the answer to problem 5 and just copy that. He had to ask them to explain how they solved problem 5, so he could calculate "his" answer. At which point it's not copying, it's learning.

    93. Re:iPad books cost less? by Mana+Mana · · Score: 1

      > The students are downloading illegal copies of books.

      I've been reading the multitudes of these 'edifying' "5" comments whilst none clarify the repeated point. Are these copies DIY-scans, or crackedz??? We did articles on /. years ago on DIY scanning rigs, attendant free software, fora, etc. When I go back to school this is the route I intend to follow. Resistance, budget, OWS---Umbawa. =)

    94. Re:iPad books cost less? by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the same scam used in the health insurance industry.

      Instead of asking, "Why do my math books cost over $400?", we are saying, "Look how much my iPad saved me!"

    95. Re:iPad books cost less? by Scr4tchFury · · Score: 1

      There are no standards when it comes to pirated books. Some of the books are DIY-scans, and some are purchased eBooks with the DRM removed. It all depends on if the publisher has made an electronic version and if someone is willing to part with money and time to make it available. DIY-scans can range from a bad photocopy that looks like a CAPTCHA test to a perfect scan run through high-end OCR software that is searchable and crystal clear. You basically get what you pay for.

    96. Re:iPad books cost less? by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      You have a citation for that? Since i have been involved with writing a chapter in one, i can tell you per unit cost of a text book is very low compared to the resale cost. I can also tell you they don't pay the writers so well. I can't however give you specific numbers.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    97. Re:iPad books cost less? by v1 · · Score: 1

      You act as if professors work in the bookstore with a database of book prices open on their computers.

      Has absolutely no bearing on the asshat professors that change the book every other year, or every year, just because the publishers are giving them freebies like the latest prof editions of the books with other extra crap. (OR when the book's author is... ooh look at that, that's the prof, and this is his new 9th edition we'll be using this year!) I was in for compsci, and I expected those books to almost all be new editions, but I was having to make a lot of expensive new book purchases in most of my gen-ed classes also - things like history and art. There's really no reason for art and history profs to be changing their books up yearly. All it does is cost the students.

      Some of my profs were really cool about it though, I had them more than once while I was there, and at the end of the level 1 class they'd talk about what you were going to need for level 2 next semester, and how they were going to continue using the same books as long as they were still current enough so sign up for his offering on the course and save some cash over the other profs that were cycling through new books all the time. Some of those used books at the bookstore I got for $20-35 and looked like they'd been through at least a half a dozen hands.

      *sigh* And then shopping for compsci.... compiler design alone was $249, and the AI books weren't much better, I think the core classes cost about a grand that year in books alone. But I saw that coming and it was understandable. C++ was new then, so that wasn't cheap, all those books were new and nothing was under $150. The pascal books however, were very cheap and looked like war vertrans ;)

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    98. Re:iPad books cost less? by catmistake · · Score: 1

      nope... just 20 years in the printing and publishing industry.

    99. Re:iPad books cost less? by I'm+not+god+any+more · · Score: 0

      AFAIK you can load up an iPad with apps and then sell the iPad with all of its DRM'd content. So, there might be a market for used iPads loaded with the right textbooks. This will create a new cap on how high the publishers can charge for text books.

      Apple's model of free app upgrades could be circumvented by the text book publishers by renaming the text book revisions in such a way that they show up as completely separate apps. So, the publisher's can still play the multiple revision game.

      Seems to me that a professor could publish a PDF each year and eliminate the text book guys from the equation completely if they wanted to. That would also empower their students to pick their own reading platform.

      --

    100. Re:iPad books cost less? by chrism238 · · Score: 1

      Your story is so good you had to tell us twice?

    101. Re:iPad books cost less? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I might have told it thee times. Depends on what I was responding to. Hopefully my argument was consistent.

  3. Wow by masternerdguy · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Oh good, Apple took a trick from Microsoft on indoctrinating the next generation.

    --
    To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see you skipped the "History of Technology in Education 101" class.

    2. Re:Wow by thedonger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh good, Apple took a trick from Microsoft on indoctrinating the next generation.

      I was amazed recently to see my 15 month old niece playing with an iPad. As I watched my first thought was how lucky she is to be creating those connections in her brain at such a young age, but then I realized we are raising a generation of newly-born children who may very well reach a significant age (say, 8, when I started using computers [in 1980]) before they ever need to touch a real keyboard. Their expectations of a user interface will far exceed ours, and at the same time they may be more a prisoner to the technology because - forget about command line - they'll barely know how to use access a file system using a GUI and a mouse.

      At least they will be inside on their computers and not trampling all over my lawn.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    3. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The thing is (coming from an IT guy who works in HS education), everything is going touch screen and simplified interfaces. On one hand I completely agree that children should be educated in typing before anything else but the reality is, with smartphones, most children can text/type quicker on a touch screen than on a keyboard. On the comment about the file system....in its essence a file system is a series of folders which is exactly what the organization unit is on smartphones and tablets and of course traditional OS's.

      It is kind of like saying...when I was a lad...but maybe they just don't NEED to know all the complexities anymore....when I started webpage design for example about 15 years ago I wrote the code as WYSIWYG editors really did not exist - now I do 99% of my work in DreamWeaver and just touch the code to double check things but I would not need to use the code at all if I had not learnt it to begin with - things move on.

    4. Re:Wow by ksd1337 · · Score: 2

      Well then, I'm just waiting until the children have to deal with this.

    5. Re:Wow by thedonger · · Score: 1

      The thing is (coming from an IT guy who works in HS education), everything is going touch screen and simplified interfaces. On one hand I completely agree that children should be educated in typing before anything else but the reality is, with smartphones, most children can text/type quicker on a touch screen than on a keyboard. On the comment about the file system....in its essence a file system is a series of folders which is exactly what the organization unit is on smartphones and tablets and of course traditional OS's.

      It is kind of like saying...when I was a lad...but maybe they just don't NEED to know all the complexities anymore....when I started webpage design for example about 15 years ago I wrote the code as WYSIWYG editors really did not exist - now I do 99% of my work in DreamWeaver and just touch the code to double check things but I would not need to use the code at all if I had not learnt it to begin with - things move on.

      I agree and I do not agree. It is hard to find a plausible reason that someone will ever need to pull a Gates or a Woz and assemble a computer out of spare parts in their garage, but what happens when this knowledge is completely decentralized and everyone is so specialize that no one can?

      Likewise, most kids these days may never need to interface with a computer the way we did twenty years ago, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't learn.

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    6. Re:Wow by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Oh good, Apple took a trick from Microsoft on indoctrinating the next generation.

      I think you will find that Microsoft took that trick from Unix.

      Microsoft didn't invent anything, not even their marketing tricks.

    7. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought apple did it first. I seem to remember back when I was younger seeing Apple 2 Series computers in classrooms. But that was the 1980's

  4. School changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    School must have changed a lot since I went. Back when I was a kid we had to write stuff down, not just read and push buttons on multiple choice questions.

    See that round hole, now shove that square peg through it .... just think of the children and it will fit ;)

    1. Re:School changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Star Trek predicted touch screens being common in the 24th century wtf do you think we're gonna have int he 21st???

    2. Re:School changed by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2

      Cave paintings, unless we sort out our various resource crises.

      If we do.. well, maybe we'll have smart paper as envisioned in The Diamond Age, or Virtual Retinal Display goggles ("phenomenoscopes", also in Diamond Age), or direct brain interface.

    3. Re:School changed by robthebloke · · Score: 1

      Because caves are an abundant resource?

    4. Re:School changed by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      only for the poor.

      The rich will simply start rendering the poor into food and fuel. Soylent green is tasty, but Soylent Brown burns nicely in the tank of my Mercedes SEL9000.
      BRB: I need to activate the turrets again, it seems that children are trying to get to the trash for food.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:School changed by tepples · · Score: 1

      But who will feed the poor? Running food through poor people has an energy return on energy invested less than one. It's not like rich people are obligate carnivores, like the Morlocks of The Time Machine who (it is implied) have lost the genes needed to live on a vegan diet.

  5. Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think I quit reading after "iPad saves you money".

  6. When you drop a book... by Mastadex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ..It doesn't matter. When you drop an iPad, it's costly to replace. But I'm just preaching to the choir now...

    --
    A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
    1. Re:When you drop a book... by UncleRage · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Funny thing...

      I've deployed around two thousand iPads in our district (and another 500 or so iPod Touches). 1700 (iPads and iTouches) or so to students, another 800 or so to admin/faculty.

      Theft of device:
      Students: 2.
      Faculty/Staff: > 15.

      Physical breakage (screen, headphone jack, etc...).
      Students: 3.
      Faculty Staff: > 20

      Students have had devices for nearly three years. Adults, for about eighteen months.

      Kids take care of the devices better than the adults (at least in our environment); weird, but there you go...

      --
      #SickNotWeak
    2. Re:When you drop a book... by hitmark · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder if the kids had more of their "life" on the pad then the adults.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    3. Re:When you drop a book... by antdude · · Score: 1

      I wonder why? Do adults not care?

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    4. Re:When you drop a book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a son with severe autism, who uses an ipad to communicate. He's non verbal, and has a low IQ. Not only has he instinctively figured the iPad out, and used it in ways we never dreamed possible, but he's pretty rough on the thing. He's tried to eat it, he's dropped it, slept on it (he is 9, so not a tiny tot), sat on it, gotten it wet many times, (Both from the above mentioned trying to eat it, and from having it near liquids) and it is still fine. We got a great case (gumdrop) and although I don't recommend doing what he does, it's still fine once you take the beat up case off. We also paid for one of those "if you smash it under your car we'll replace it" plans, which I normally avoid. If I knew the case was going to be this good...

    5. Re:When you drop a book... by vlm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have multiple teachers in my family and I watch the news. The background is little johnny comes to school with a black eye on occasion and no one cares when you report it, doesn't really matter why. Little johnny breaks the $100 whatever (window, computer keyboard, mouse, textbook, lab equipment, whatever). Well its gonna be hard to look him in his black eye tomorrow, so the written report will be the teacher somehow broke it, even if she tells the kid its going on his permanent record, the actual written report which the kid never sees is going to be a bit different. This lead to comical written reports, "explain why did you put elmers glue in the keyboard again, ms art teacher?". Theres a lot of cover up going on. Then too there's a bit of fairness. Little johnny who you know gets beaten at home gets a cover up... why punish little sally for dropping the ipad just because you think she isn't being beaten? Are you sure? If she shows up dead tomorrow how will you live with yourself? Should "good" parents have to pay replacement money as a punishment for being "good"? If you determine it was an honest accident and "teachable moment" or whatever about responsibility, you just put it on your account instead of the kids account and move on.

      All you're really proven is that about 90% of the time, damage is just an honest mistake / accident. Teachers can and do nail the kid to the wall if its blatant like smashing the device over another kids head, or intentional destruction, or hitting the teacher with it, or some kind of 3-strikes and you're out personal policy, but that kind of stuff is kinda rare.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:When you drop a book... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I work at a public school. Last week a student got frustrated with his work and punched a laptop so hard the screen fractured. This isn't that uncommon an occurance. Equipment lifespan depends on the students.

    7. Re:When you drop a book... by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 2

      That's interesting. How old are the kids? I'm guessing that most kids just live with the headphone jack problems rather than report it.

      Also, if they know the break was their fault they may just get their parents to buy them a new one.

      Do they have to return the ipads at the end of the year? It'll be interesting if the ratio of broken/lost devices continues at the end of the year.

    8. Re:When you drop a book... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, as a AV engineer and consultant I have observed the following. Teachers are incredibly dumb compared to the kids in regards to technology. Almost to the point that they are "special needs".

      I have several educators that complain that when they press a button on a touchscreen that if something did not happen, they don't press it again, they crawl under the desk and start crying and proclaiming that the system is completely broken and needs to be replaced. These people may understand education, but they are incompetent when it comes to using any form of technology.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:When you drop a book... by UncleRage · · Score: 2

      ...actually, the adults I'm referring to are mostly administrators (the kind that haven't seen a classroom in twenty years and twisted funding to acquire an iPad to go along with their desktop, laptop and smartphone...).

      I've found both classroom instructors and students to be careful with equipment (I'm the Apple sys-admin, I really don't deal with the Windows side of the house -- so my exposure to the Dells (netbooks, laptops and desktops) is non-existant in my day to day operations).

      Primarily, when I hear about an adult breaking or "losing" an iPad; it's dropping it as they get out of the car, loss at the gym/hair salon/grocery store, etc... not an instructor.

      --
      #SickNotWeak
    10. Re:When you drop a book... by UncleRage · · Score: 2

      They run the full spectrum. K-12.

      We have a large scale K-2 program where the iPads are used in center-based learning. We have carts used for shared classes and we also have 1:1 deployments. Students don't take the devices home (which buffers the percentages quite a bit, I realize).

      I wasn't really tossing the original comment in as any kind of "fact"; just anecdotal observation. Most of our kids come from economically challenged families -- and most of our instructors are exceptionally dedicated to their vocation. Student success rates, fiscal responsibility, best tool for the job and proper direction of education in public schools kept from this conversation; we just happen to have above average treatment of technology in the classroom.

      --
      #SickNotWeak
    11. Re:When you drop a book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they want upgrades, and the administration has shown them that you get an upgrade when yours breaks or is stolen. Hence, they seem to break more often.

    12. Re:When you drop a book... by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      Little johnny breaks the $100 whatever (window, computer keyboard, mouse, textbook, lab equipment, whatever). Well its gonna be hard to look him in his black eye tomorrow, so the written report will be the teacher somehow broke it

      Are you saying the teacher will take responsibility for property damage to cover up child abuse or a physical assault? I don't follow what you are saying.

    13. Re:When you drop a book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His son has autism, not mental retardation. Maybe you should look up the difference between them before posting your idiocy...

    14. Re:When you drop a book... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Apparently, that was one of their problems, but they're using some kind of foam cases for their iPads.

    15. Re:When you drop a book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His son has autism, not mental retardation. Maybe you should look up the difference between them before posting your idiocy..

      His son's condition is not something to brag about to anyone, specially not to save Apple in any discussion. Defending someone that is willing to do that to his own progeny makes you twice the monster he is. Probably because you are. The only class of people I can think of that are as terrible as you are in jail for life.

  7. I can see the article now down the road... by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Textbooks yanked from students iPads during a semester because of DRM glitch. Thousands of kids are unable to do their book work as teachers scramble to come up with alternatives while the issue gets resolved between the publisher, Apple, and anyone else.

    *Whump* It may be old, it may be so yesteryear but a book works fine. Not to mention as a learning tool it also makes a great:

    * Blunt object to smack the bully who's harassing you with if he tries to take it from you.

    * Something to stand on to reach that higher shelf

    * Foot rest when doing something other then Calculus or Physics. God those books weighed a ton!

    * Something your kid could poke around in when your older and not have to deal with DRM restrictions that lock the title to you alone. Seriously I found my parents old math books in the attic one day and I was amazed going through them when I was younger.

    * It works great when the batteries are dead and you have a candle to read by.

    Now that I've ranted I'll get off the lawn before the guy with the stone tablets comes out and yells at me. Don't ask him how he parted the waters in his birdbath. You'll get your ear talked off.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
    1. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by fafaforza · · Score: 4, Insightful

      * Something that can screw up the kid's back for life.

      Have you seen the size of these kids' backpacks? Not saying that the iPad is the best answer, but at least it would lighten those loads.

    2. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It works great when the batteries are dead and you have a candle to read by."
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aWLP4izGV0

    3. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      A kindle can easily go weeks between chargings, if they made it thicker and covered the back in a full size solar panel, it could charge in a few hours of direct sunlight.

      This would eliminate 99.99764% of all your arguments.

      The kindle is useless as a fuel source, a book buns much longer and hotter to heat your shack or cook your soup under.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by tepples · · Score: 1

      A kindle can easily go weeks between chargings

      And is useless for any illustrations that rely on color. How big of a solar panel would you need to recharge a Kindle Fire?

    5. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. My brother is 10 years older than I am and I had loads of fun reading his text books as a kid. He was in high school and me in grade school. He would leave them around the house and when he wasn't around I'd pick them up and read and do the problems in them. At age of 7/8 I can remember reading his copy of Kurt Vonnegut.

      I remember this one time he came home and I was working on his Calculus homework. That was a funny moment when I asked him why he got such and such answer and mine was different. He was 18 an me I was 8. I think I made him a little scared since he quit picking on me from that moment on.

    6. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it was Amazon that actually did this, not Apple.

    7. Re:I can see the article now down the road... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Screw you and your different font.

  8. They're using tablets by kervin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...and they could have just have easily been using Netbooks or Laptops for this. And the advantage of a laptop is that these starving students would save themselves even that $600 the tablet costs as they need a laptop for real work anyway.

    1. Re:They're using tablets by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      ...and they could have just have easily been using Netbooks or Laptops for this. And the advantage of a laptop is that these starving students would save themselves even that $600 the tablet costs as they need a laptop for real work anyway.

      An iPad doesn't cost $600. And a netbook wouldn't save anything because they need a laptop for real work anyway.

    2. Re:They're using tablets by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...and they could have just have easily been using Netbooks or Laptops for this.

      Perversely, the walled garden means management cant intentionally add spyware to them as easily as a PC. Laptops take 5+ minutes to boot and load all the inventory monitor, virus scanner and its updates, OS updates, keyloggers both management approved and downloaded accidentally off the internet, and the battery is dead by the end of the first class... then what?

      If you go laptop, you need a AC power outlet at each desk, which is going to be expensive to wire, and the kids are going to stick wires in there to intentionally electrocute each other.

      If you go tablet, the kid needs to carry... the tablet. Charge it at night, it'll run all day. If you forget, the old fashioned dunce chair in the corner becomes "the charger chair" to sit next to the teacher's charger and wall outlet. If you go laptop, the kid needs to carry the laptop, the power adapter which will get lost or forgotten, the power cable from outlet to adapter which will get lost, the inevitable ipod/phone USB charger cable (lets face it, its gonna happen) and probably an old fashioned ethernet cable for locations/times when wifi is not available, and probably a flash drive or two to trade music files with friends, and add a random USB cable or two to hook up to printers/scanners/etc that are not on the LAN (Printer on the lan at work is convenient, on the lan at school means the local 2600 readers are going to anonymously print goatse out on the principals office printer, therefore no printers allowed on the lan at school). The laptop PLUS accessories is going to be bulkier and heavier than all but the stoutest Calc or Physics books, negating most of the purpose.

      Yes, I've read textbooks on a regular old fashioned desktop. I suppose I could on a laptop or netbook. It just makes more sense to use a tablet.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netbooks are Laptops are not very comfortable to read on for long periods, their displays are not designed to match a full page. My 10" tablet is nearly the same as reading a textbook and my Nook is nearly the same as reading a fiction book.

    4. Re:They're using tablets by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Another huge advantage of netbooks is the keyboard. The inability to type limits the usage of the device in class. But if they really just wanted a digital textbook, an ebook would have been cheaper and better for their eyes, kids have a harder time staring at displays all day long.

      But, regardless of the Apple bashing, it's still better than pen and paper. We have waited for too long for schools to switch to digital. Now Apple started a move by persuading schools to use their devices. of course, they will offer their own devices, but netbook or ebook producers could have similar programs too. So yes, while initially Apple will dominate classrooms, it's more important that schools open up to digital methods. After they get used to it, they will have proper knowledge to choose the best tool for the job.

    5. Re:They're using tablets by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Another huge advantage of netbooks is the keyboard. The inability to type limits the usage of the device in class

      It would be so nice if the iPad could use any old Bluetooth keyboard....

      Oh wait!! It can.

    6. Re:They're using tablets by vlm · · Score: 1

      an ebook would have been cheaper and better for their eyes, kids have a harder time staring at displays all day long

      LOL hilarious. Yeah kids hate video games and they hate watching TV and the older ones really hate spending hours on that facebook thing. Just can't get them to look at a screen...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you're the archetypal case of a starving student that can't afford an iPad. So what if one can? Is it somehow out of your (empty) pocket?

    8. Re:They're using tablets by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      What idiot is buying a 64 gig 3G ipad for kids?

      Schools pay less than $199 each for ipad 2's 16 gig wifi units.

      Or are you making up a price because you have zero clue as to how much an ipad costs?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:They're using tablets by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      Someone should mod this up. It's so true. The tablet ends up being just one more expense, especially as it's unlikely that significant numbers of faculty will adopt the ebooks.

    10. Re:They're using tablets by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I love my ipad but there is ZERO chance of a ipad lasting a kid all day for school. I get about 5 hours of solid on and in use, the 10 hour run time is a complete myth. Although the ipad1 did have a longer run time than this ipad 2 I have.

      In gaming sessions I start with a fully charged ipad and end with 20% battery in the 4 hours we game. Not a chance in hell it's going to last a kid an entire school day.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    11. Re:They're using tablets by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The good thing is that a lot of books on iPad are "open" (ePub or PDF format) without DRM. Can't say that of most other e-book readers.

      Also, have you ever used those other e-book readers? My girlfriend has the Kindle which is probably one of the most well-known examples of an 'alternative' but compared to my iPad, it's too small of a screen compared to a paper book unless you're reading romance novels (I have to flip through the page every 10 seconds) and the buttons have the most awkward placement it actually cramps up my thumb. The refresh rate sucks, it's black & white and it's menu's are hard to navigate.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    12. Re:They're using tablets by kervin · · Score: 1

      The point I'm making is that whatever they paid for the tablet could be applied to a laptop purchase. A purchase that's compulsory anyway.

      I don't believe anyone's getting $199 IPads. I went with the retail price. An IPad 2 Wifi on Amazon is $540+tax. If I'm far off it's an honest mistake.

      But even if the tablets are $400 in bulk somehow. Don't you believe the students would be better served by free $400 Laptops instead ( also purchased in bulk )?

    13. Re:They're using tablets by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Education markets get a volume discount, it's been this way for decades with apple. Macbook's just a few years ago were $599.00 to schools, that is $400 off of retail.

      You really need to research what schools pay, Apple is common in schools because they give drastic discounts. Microsoft does as well, Windows site licenses and Server with unlimited client licenses are free to most any school. For some school districts, that's millions of dollars in free software.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    14. Re:They're using tablets by Hentes · · Score: 2

      Yeah, buy an iPad AND a keyboard just to replicate the functionality of a netbook. Very cost-effective.

    15. Re:They're using tablets by Hentes · · Score: 1

      We are talking about kids here, with small hands. And if you are flipping a page in every 10 seconds, then the refresh rate is probably not a problem.

    16. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and they could have just have easily been using Netbooks or Laptops for this.

      No. They could have just as effecitively been using netbooks or laptops for this. Nowhere near as easily. The lie-flat, keyboard-less tablet form factor is much more effectively suited to replacing books for reading.

      And yes, to most people, human factors matters far more than technical functionality. To Slashdotters, it doesn't, which is telling.

    17. Re:They're using tablets by OlRickDawson · · Score: 1

      Yes, it can use a bluetooth keyboard, but when schools provide the iPads to junior high/ high school students, they don't provide a bluetooth keyboard. I don't particularly want to buy an accessory for something that I won't be keeping either. So, when my son does his homework on his school provided iPad, he winds up being very frustrated by using the onscreen functions. Since he was so frustrated with it, I watched him try to do his homework. What would have taken him 10 minutes to do with a pen and paper wound up taking him 30 minutes, because of fighting with the app and the iPad. I convinced him to log onto the school's system with his notebook (yes, I had bought him a notebook, but not an iPad), he was able to finish up quickly. My experience with watching a school deploy iPads for 8th grade students here in Indiana has been mixed. It has been great that the text books (what they use of them) area always available, and they can't forget their homework. However, doing the actual homework on the iPad is less than ideal. The algebra teacher, wisely, passes out the assignment, but has the students do the work on paper and hand it in. The English teacher, unfortunately, has them doing their homework on the iPad. Writing out an essay, or filling out forms, etc. take much longer than if done on a notebook. Even if a bluetooth keyboard was provided, the editing functionality is frustrated. One of his main problems with editing is just positioning the cursor. With a notebook, the use of cursor keys or a mouse can very easily position the cursor in the correct spot for editing. On the iPad, one must hold a finger down in the right spot, and wait for the magnifying glass to appear (if it does), and then to carefully move your finger until the cursor is in the correct spot. It is much, much harder to do, and slower than if they just had some cursor keys. My conclusion is that the iPad is great for textbooks and handing out assignments. For doing homework, it is better use pencil and paper.

      --
      Ol' Rick Dawson had a farm EIEIO
    18. Re:They're using tablets by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      You can buy an iPad keyboard + case for $39.

      How much do you think a good adware + spyware + virus subscription costs plus the infrastructure and personnel costs?

    19. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, but I loathe reading on any sort of laptop.

    20. Re:They're using tablets by tepples · · Score: 1

      Printer on the lan at work is convenient, on the lan at school means the local 2600 readers are going to anonymously print goatse out on the principals office printer, therefore no printers allowed on the lan at school

      How do you suppose this might happen? I assume that students wouldn't know the password for an account approved to print on an office printer.

    21. Re:They're using tablets by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Then charge them over lunch at a central point, or provide desks with a USB output.

      I agree they won't last all day if used constantly.

    22. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An iPad without any accessories is $586 here with sales tax. Since it needs accessories to be of much use to me, my cost is around $800, which is a tad too dear. In any case, don't assume your cost is the same as everyone else's. $600 sounds about average to me.

      And a decent netbook in 2011 is likely fine for the 'real work' of arts and social science students, while costing about 2/3 of an iPad.

    23. Re:They're using tablets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously gaming is going to take more of the battery life. Why is a kid "gaming" over 4 HOURS every day? Seems the responsible ones can manage their charge vs gaming needs just fine and the dumb ones will filter themselves out. No solution needed.

    24. Re:They're using tablets by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You've never heard of education channels or volume sales?

    25. Re:They're using tablets by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Sure it would. In my highschool, we had 4 classes, each 75 minutes. So that's a total of 5 hours of usage. You can easily get through a whole day of school without charging. First, you won't be using it for the entire time period of every class. The teacher should actually be teaching for a good portion of the class. Plus, reading a book is not even close to as battery intensive as playing a game. If you're just looking at text, the battery probably comes pretty close to the 9 hours they say it gets

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    26. Re:They're using tablets by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Many printers will obediently cough up anything that comes in on port 9100.

    27. Re:They're using tablets by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      How much do you think Debian costs?

    28. Re:They're using tablets by Karlt1 · · Score: 1
    29. Re:They're using tablets by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      It's no less compatible with Windows than iOS is.

      Aside: People who run Windows on netbooks are a few .PARs short.

    30. Re:They're using tablets by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      I think their are a few more people comfortable with iOS than Linux.....

  9. the 3rd graders mastered the ipad? by shadowrat · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Jennifer Kohn's third grade class at Millstone Elementary School in Millstone, New Jersey, mastered the iPad with minimal training."

    Mastered meaning they learned objective-c and xcode and now have multiple million unit selling apps?

    1. Re:the 3rd graders mastered the ipad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you seen the quality of "apps" lately? :)

    2. Re:the 3rd graders mastered the ipad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mastered meaning they learned objective-c and xcode and now have multiple million unit selling apps?

      They only write fart apps...

    3. Re:the 3rd graders mastered the ipad? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Mastered meaning they learned objective-c and xcode and now have multiple million unit selling apps?

      They only write fart apps...

      Writing a high quality fart app takes more than your average third grader can muster, even on an iPad.

    4. Re:the 3rd graders mastered the ipad? by Krau+Ming · · Score: 1

      Billy, touch your finger to the app icon called "math". Good for you Billy! you've mastered the iPad!

  10. Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by vikingpower · · Score: 3

    ...how this lady chirps for one particular piece of equipment. Who paid her ?

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    1. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...how this lady chirps for one particular piece of equipment. Who paid her ?

      I'm not suspicious at all. Occam's razor leads me to believe that she just likes it more than lugging around expensive single subject text books. Most of the time, things are really just that simple.

    2. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Aqualung812 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When an e-ink device is a fraction of the cost of an iPad & has the classroom advantage of being better suited for text and poorly suited for games, I come to the conclusion that she is either paid for or stupid.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    3. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by masternerdguy · · Score: 1

      But why would she say iPad and not tablet? There are huge numbers of tablets that compete with the iPad.

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    4. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because she's a dumb ass who thinks like the rest of Mac owners, nothing exist out there. Apple as won it's bet, DUMB ASS people rule unfortunately.

    5. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      But why would she say iPad and not tablet? There are huge numbers of tablets that compete with the iPad.

      Because the creator of iPhome, a case designed for the iPad, arranged it.

    6. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by vlm · · Score: 1

      Teachers love to teach the device not the concept.

      I grew up in an era where you had to own THE TI-81 in school, and we were taught at the detail level of individual button press solely to use that calculator. not any other brand. not even any other model. Simply not allowed. In fact we were tested on exactly which keys on a TI-81 were required to graph a certain segment of a sine wave, for example.

      I know it sounds insane, because it was, but since it was a stupid idea, I'm sure its being vigorously enforced to this day. Can anyone surprise me with a more modern anecdote? Perhaps with a different slightly newer TI model. But I guarantee it will be enforced that every single device on the desk will be identical, whatever it ends up being.

      I am 100% certain that the math teacher will find some math related app and 100% of the kids will be required to use that exact app. I don't think the teacher is going to be amused at not only having to find a useful free app (good luck) but it has to run perfectly "keystroke" identical on ios, all android devices, and who knows what else (webos? somebody's laptop?)

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      But shouldn't news reporters have a broader understanding and not use one manufacturer's product to describe a whole market? I was watching some video of "disabled people voting with the iPad" where someone was holding an iPad up for a person and they pressed buttons. Could have been done with any tablet or touch screen from 10 years ago. Someone is shilling for Apple in many, many articles.

    8. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      But why would you limit yourself to a worse UI than the actual textbooks*? I think the point is to improve on them. In fact, the article shows interactiveness and animation.

      I never had an iPad (or laptop, for that matter) on my classes, but certain animations on e.g. Wikipedia or videos projected by teachers were certainly helpful to better visualize some concepts.

      I know someone will reply that they learned just fine by decoding morse in their head while they walked barefoot uphill both ways, but I think it's stupid to intentionally make stuff harder to understand if we have the technology now.

      And I believe iPads (or other tablets) can be locked down to prevent installing new apps without authorization, can't they?

      * At least mine had color diagrams.

    9. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I know it sounds insane, because it was, but since it was a stupid idea, I'm sure its being vigorously enforced to this day. Can anyone surprise me with a more modern anecdote? Perhaps with a different slightly newer TI model. But I guarantee it will be enforced that every single device on the desk will be identical, whatever it ends up being.

      Didn't we always hear that kids _must_ be raised on Windows so they can function properly in the workplace? Reminds me that the number of people claiming this seems to has gone down, probably because the hordes of school leavers that are unemployable now because they learned Windows XP or Windows Vista instead of Windows 7.

    10. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      I love my Sony eReader, but I honestly can't see it being used for text books.

      The Kindle DX is currently the only full page reader (there are others that are 8"), but it itself isn't too cheap. Flipping between pages is just too arduous and slow, and the lack of color lends itself against textbooks, which often are full of images, and graphics, and tables that use colors to differentiate data.

    11. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      But why would she say iPad and not tablet? There are huge numbers of tablets that compete with the iPad.

      What type of central management solution do these other tablets offer?

    12. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TI-84 in my time. Although the teacher did not mind us using other calculators, but he stated that he could not help with how the interface/graphing works on the other models. It was a 'use at own risk' situation.

      As you can imagine, some people were using the old TI-81 from their family's elder brothers or sisters.

    13. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      ...how this lady chirps for one particular piece of equipment. Who paid her ?

      I'm not suspicious at all. Occam's razor leads me to believe that she just likes it more than lugging around expensive single subject text books. Most of the time, things are really just that simple.

      I think it's even simpler than that - it's shiny, she feels good when she has a shiny, so she tells everyone how wonderful her shiny is and that they should get one too, because that will make her feel even better that everyone is following her lead.

      It doesn't really have to have a purpose, since it does, it makes the "wonderful" statements that much easier to articulate, but it wouldn't be nearly as attractive if it were dirty beige plastic with an amber on black display - perhaps just as functional, but it just wouldn't have that "I'm special because I have one of these" gestalt.

    14. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Worse UI than a textbook? Not a black & white one, which is most of my kids' books. They are more expensive and FAR heavier.

      Sure, when the price of iPads or other tablets drop to a better level, AND the school IT departments figure out how to lock them down, AND the teachers learn how to use them, I'm cool with putting them in the classroom.

      However, my 1st & 4th grade kids currently have tons of black & white, heavy, paper books that they have to lug around, and I pay several times the cost of a small Kindle every year for these books.

      An e-ink device can be put in place right NOW. There is almost no training to them.

      I've been around long enough to hear about a computer in every classroom, mobile laptop carts, and one laptop per child. What I've seen with every one of these is about 2 teachers in every school "get it", while the rest have no idea how to use them properly. I don't see how a tablet will suddenly fix this.

      I don't want to wait for the teachers to adapt, I just want them to permit my kids to bring their e-ink reader instead of a big ass book. Right now, the biggest barrier to this is getting the same textbooks in ereader format that they use for the paper books.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    15. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by vlm · · Score: 1

      I know it sounds insane, because it was, but since it was a stupid idea, I'm sure its being vigorously enforced to this day. Can anyone surprise me with a more modern anecdote? Perhaps with a different slightly newer TI model. But I guarantee it will be enforced that every single device on the desk will be identical, whatever it ends up being.

      Didn't we always hear that kids _must_ be raised on Windows so they can function properly in the workplace? Reminds me that the number of people claiming this seems to has gone down, probably because the hordes of school leavers that are unemployable now because they learned Windows XP or Windows Vista instead of Windows 7.

      Yeah my mastery of "Bank Street Writer" has been vital on the job. That and knowing how to optimize autoexec.bat and config.sys.

      A couple years back I was reminiscing about "Print Shop" and wondering why there's no app for that, are not banners and signs still "cool", then I realized its been consumed by word processors and temporary printer driver configurations... an example where learning old apps actually holds you back in the modern world.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    16. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      There are two different issues here: one are schools using textbooks now; I agree they should switch to e-ink devices or at least let the kids use theirs.

      Another are schools like the one in TFA, which is at least financially prepared to move to full tablets; in that case, I don't see why would she have to be "paid for or stupid" to choose a full tablet over an e-ink device.

      Even if teachers can't use them *right now*, they certainly won't learn how to fully take advantage of them unless they can actually use them; it's not like a teacher has time to develop content that can't actually be used.

      So since a tablet is essentially a superset of an e-ink device for this purposes, and offers many possibilities for the future, seems shortsighted to me to not invest in them now.

    17. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Another are schools like the one in TFA, which is at least financially prepared to move to full tablets; in that case, I don't see why would she have to be "paid for or stupid" to choose a full tablet over an e-ink device.

      Point taken. I'm venting my own personal frustration to the state of textbooks in general & not paying as much attention to TFA.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    18. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A radio programme I used listen to had a technology expert on to compare an iPhone with a Samsung Galaxy. After two weeks he had not bothered to turn on the Samsung. This type of laziness is commonplace in churnalism.

    19. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish there was more of this. I understand, I like book readers (whatever the platform, not just ipads) and they have many advantages but two disadvantages. Firstly ebooks have zero resale value so students won't be able to pick them up second hand (sadly, this will be seen as a good thing for the publishers, bad for the stores and students struggling to make ends meet). Secondly, if they're nerds then this is the only way they might build up some book muscles! okay, second is that libraries would need to add charging sockets, the infrastructure of the university would need to change. Realistically though, since they are searchable and it's possible to share annotations I think it would be wonderful. People wouldn't need to choose which books to bring with them.

    20. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I think it's even simpler than that - it's shiny, she feels good when she has a shiny, so she tells everyone how wonderful her shiny is and that they should get one too, because that will make her feel even better that everyone is following her lead.

      You are misunderstanding Occam's razor. The preferred explanation is the simplest one. The preferred explanation is not the one where you declare everyone else to be simpletons and you to be the only one who actually knows something. That's just the explanation that makes you look like a deluded idiot.

    21. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      Colour textbooks don't work so well on e-ink displays.

      Seriously, the slashdot mantra that anyone who disagrees with the supposed "right" choice (as dictated by whatever company is the current demon du jour on slashdot) is clearly a paid shill is just fucking tiresome.

      Might it just be possible, in some infinitesimally small chance, that she's positive about the whole thing because it's actually been something positive?

    22. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      Because... they're using iPads... and she's... relating her experiences?

      She's under no obligation to say "of course other tablets are available". She's not writing a slashdot comment that is slightly positive of Apple and thus must include a ton of disclaimers about how she's aware Apple didn't invent the tablet, or the GUI, or the mp3 player, or the ebook reader, or the concept of textbooks on an electronic device.

      And there may be "huge numbers" of tablets, but not many that compete with the iPad. Off the top of my head, the only real two are the Transformer and the Galaxy. Maybe the Xoom, but who wants to pay more than an iPad and have it ship with non-working features?

    23. Re:Strange & IMHO slightly suspicious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me know when they come out with full color eInk Kindles.

  11. Good idea but poor execution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They save lot's of money, right up until you have to replace a smashed one.

    I think we've finally seen a more reasonable price point out of the Kindle ($80) would be low enough that a large portion of the parental population wouldn't murder their child after just one being destroyed.

    iPads on the other a bit harder to recover from. That and it's a fucking iPad. Are we going out of our way to teach our children to be douche bags?

    1. Re:Good idea but poor execution by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      No one will be using eInk for text books. Will never happen. And I've owned a few Sony readers for the past 4 years.

    2. Re:Good idea but poor execution by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Pads on the other a bit harder to recover from. That and it's a fucking iPad. Are we going out of our way to teach our children to be douche bags?

      So you are more or less seriously saying that using an iPad would "teach a child to be a douche bag"? You should re-think your outlook on the world.

    3. Re:Good idea but poor execution by vlm · · Score: 2

      I think we've finally seen a more reasonable price point out of the Kindle ($80) would be low enough that a large portion of the parental population wouldn't murder their child after just one being destroyed.

      You're too optimistic. I have multiple teachers in my family and I watch the news and kids get beaten all the time for losing less money for cheaper textbooks and library books and hats and mittens and such. Think about it, $80 is a lot of crack or malt liquor, the kid just lost your high money, you've got a fist and you remember the pains of going thru withdrawal last time, in some inferior subcultures that kid is in serious physical danger...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Good idea but poor execution by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      They save lot's of money, right up until you have to replace a smashed one.

      Exactly. What kids need is something cheap, functional, and really hard to break. Being 'oh,shiney!' is not an essential requirement.

    5. Re:Good idea but poor execution by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      Care to elaborate, or are you just being a negative nancy?

    6. Re:Good idea but poor execution by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      I'm a realist. I just don't think eInk lends itself to textbooks. With PDF on an LCD, you can scan across multiple pages quickly, which is a frequent occurrence, as you jump between text and a relevant diagram or illustration 3 pages prior. Things are much slower on eInk. The devices are somewhat underpowered, too, when going between menus can have a delay (separate from the display).

      Plus, 8"+ size eInk displays aren't really being made in large quantity, showing that there isn't really a demand (Amazon didn't make a DX Touch, for example). So you have the chicken and egg problem, where eInk devices aren't really in high demand, so then why would publishers designate resources to format ePubs for it where most people use Laptops or tablets and existing PDFs work well enough.

      Plus, ePub and eInk have been around for a while, and nothing has happened in terms of using it for school. If anything, tests done by Amazon showed that people disliked using eInk for school. And now, the proliferation of LCD tablets (and their ever lowering cost) might be the final nail in that coffin.

  12. This post brought to you by iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What a glorious device the iPad must be. Why, it can do everything! I must get one today.

  13. Re:nulling all contracts by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    The School District. That's who. In the US at least, School Districts enjoy the right of "in loco parentis," and can make decisions on behalf of your child as if they were the parent.

  14. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    During my day job, I use a computer for about 8 hours. I then use a computer for my classes for approximately 2 or 3 more hours--and that's on a good day. If I have time before bed, I then use a computer to watch something online as I avoid overpriced cable or satellite charges this way. After all this effort in using a computer, I still have yet to feel like my computer is helping my life out in any way.

    Instead?

    I'm charged with a pupil's responsibility of sorting through the bullshit "companion documentation" some disillusioned instructor uploaded to his or her Blackboard class just to find something as trivial as a due date, and we all know how easy it can be to siphon through large PDFs, like a 3 MB syllabus. I'm then expected to sort through more damn PDFs just for shit that said instructor thinks is important to circle-jerk to during "blog discussions" or "online reflections." I'm then expected to download yet another PDF to read before some joke class meeting where we pretend to be learning all of this supposed knowledge that's supposedly meant to help us better our lives which we all know won't happen unless we find that supposed magical fairytale job that exists out there in our supposed dream life we're all waiting for. Supposedly...

    Thank the lord for unorganized distance education, inaccessible websites that have no semantic structure whatsoever, overpaid professionals who do nothing useful in higher education, unrealistic instruction by nimrod professors who've lost their grip to reality due to everything ranging from red tape to tenure, annoyingly long PDFs covering research statistics and data nobody really gives a rat's ass about... ...and our wonderful hand-held units that we now get to experience this all through.

    1. Re:Seriously? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Computers were supposed to kill paper, and they may yet. During my generation, the 2 page typed essay ballooned to 10+ pages due to the accessibility of word processors (and, to a lesser degree then, to the ease of finding reference material.)

      "Paperwork" required for everything has mushroomed due to the relative ease of its generation.

      God forbid that we could actually get by on the old forms that made life work in 1811 and just do them faster because we don't have to fill them out with quill and scroll and deliver them on horseback.

    2. Re:Seriously? by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      Well, AC, wait until you're in the "real" world. It's so much more efficient and so much less full of BS than the situation you describe. And your positive attitude will no doubt help you rise to the top very swiftly.

    3. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      supercrisp, I guess I understand your reaction to my comment but remember that you know nothing about me. How do you know I'm not in the real world? Did it ever occur to you that being in "the real world" led me to make that comment the way I did or are you one of those types that constantly smiles in the face of idiocy only to keep swallowing what those around tell you to swallow? Keep bending over, my friend... Keep bending over...

      What you see as "negative attitude" I see as "being honest."

      Keep in mind that sometimes the act of complaining can be a good thing. Feel free to waste your time by complaining about my complaining if you wish. Call me a downer, a loser, or whatever else you can think up. Doesn't bother me a bit.

    4. Re:Seriously? by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

      theres some.places id never ditch paper. Yes i have a pdf version of the FSM (factory service manual) for each of my hondas and nissans. The hondas i also have the printed version (helms) paper back, but just the electronic version for my xterra. When i did the timing belt/water pump etc i didnt have my laptop sitting there scrolling along, i printed the relevant sections on my laser printed and had them on hand for the work.

      Same goes for all of the remote starts i do. I have my laptop only to flash the firmware required onto the interface module, but print all guides etc on my printer. Its easier, faster, and wont ruin a computer doing it this way

    5. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude... school is stupid. Its a fucking racket for gullible people that "wanna better life." Heh. Morons.

  15. Great financial stewardship! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad the taxpayers of Millstone, NJ are being forced to pay money they don't have for one brand or another of the most perishable IT technology there is. In five years or so all of those iPads will be in the landfill, and the good, well-meaning but ignorant taxpayers of Millstone can repeat the process. I hope the schools teach those kids some solid Personal Finance; they certainly are not going to learn it from their parents or the School Board, (that jumping off point for nascent political careers).

  16. Where do they draw penises... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In high school the books were riddled with sketches of penises, vaginas and pot leafs...how are you supposed to pass this on to the next generation with an iPad?

  17. Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody is out to steal textbooks, but a $700+ iPad in the hands of a seven year old is probably risky.

  18. Remarks by should_be_linear · · Score: 1

    Students usually write various remarks inside textbook. Finger is not ideal tool for this (and keyboard is useless for quick equation, graph or schema). So, this will have also downside for students, especially if SW is general "reader", not tailored for this specific use.

    --
    839*929
    1. Re:Remarks by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Paper and pencil has had millenia of development, computer interfaces are just passing the 50 year mark. (observation attributed loosely to Bill Gates in some interview I have long since forgotten)

    2. Re:Remarks by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      It's called a stylus, and has been mocked as a relic by the likes of Apple and pretty much every Tablet trying to copy the success of hte iPad. However, as you point out, here is an areas where it is pretty much required to truely replace the textbook. In fact, I got through college without ever buying a physical textbook thanks to my Tablet PC and its stylus. It's one of the aspects of my iPad I find severely lacking, and why I can't wait for Windows 8 tablets to start popping up because they will surely have stylus support.

  19. Yes please but wouldn't epaper be better? by Liambp · · Score: 2

    As a parent who's eldest has just started secondary (high) school I say the sooner they move to e-books the better. Its not just about money. I am concerned about the weight of textbooks my 12 year old daughter has to lug around. They have lockers but regularly brings home 10kg or more of books for homework or study. The problem has gotten much worse than when I was a school kid because
    a. Schoolbooks are bigger, glossier and consequently heavier and
    b. Every subject now has a separate workbook which doubles up the number of books.

    So I would welcome the transition to ebooks with open arms but I wonder if the technology is ready yet. On the hardware side battery life is critical. Between school time and homework the kids could be using the tablet for 8 hours a day. With even the best of current tablets that means forgetting to plug in overnight could lose you a whole schoolday. On the software side I am also concerned that the whole e-book industry is still a mess with conflicting standards and restrictive drm: "I am sorry but we won't be covering Lord of the Flies this year because you cannot get it in XYZ format".

    1. Re:Yes please but wouldn't epaper be better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and no kids before yours ever carried heavy stuff in their backpacks. It's time to realize your kids are not special and although you are seeing "new" firsts and issues for the first time as your kids age, parents have been dealing with the same concept for little Mary and Johnny for decades. I didn't carry many books back in the day but I also had to walk to and from school until 9th grade. It was only up hill one way but now kids are bussed even when they are only a few blocks from the school or their parents always drive them. Trade one for the other.

    2. Re:Yes please but wouldn't epaper be better? by ironjaw33 · · Score: 1

      In the mid 1990s, when I was in middle school, we also had tons of books. We would all coax our parents to buy the biggest backpack available to carry them. It was almost to the point where you were shunned if you didn't have a bag that made you look like you were about to tip over. Somehow, I don't remember books being a problem in high school even though I rarely used my locker. I guess I grew enough so that books weren't a problem. I can't say for sure that ebooks are the right solution, but they would certainly lighten the load.

    3. Re:Yes please but wouldn't epaper be better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "about the weight of textbooks my 12 year old daughter has to lug around"

      It's character building. Kids aren't delicate flowers and are probably 10x tougher than you realise. Yes, even the girls.

      http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/body/overweight_obesity.html

  20. Give it time... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

    iPad books cost so much less it's a legal alternative for students who are using BitTorent [to pirate books].

    iTunes singles are 0.99, and still people pirate mass quantities of music.

    hulu came out ad-free, and they have been increasing the ad quantities steadily ever since.

    iPad books are "so much less" right now, they will increase in price until iPad publishers reach a maximum profit.

  21. Nice! by aglider · · Score: 2

    New technology will bring also brand new excused not to study and not to do homework.
    - I've got a virus
    - The memory card got broken
    - I ran out of power
    - I couldn't get online to download the homework
    - The dog ate my tablet

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  22. Moral panic incoming... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    Just wait for the first student to get caught by their parents looking at porn on their school-suplied iPad. Those things will be locked down so tight after that, Apple could only dream of that kind of control. Probably have web browsing disabled entirely, along with all apps except the book reader, and that set to only open approved school-distributed texts.

    1. Re:Moral panic incoming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until students figure out what this "jailbreak" thing is.

    2. Re:Moral panic incoming... by goldspider · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with setting up a device for students that is restricted to approved educational uses?

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    3. Re:Moral panic incoming... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Nothing at all, except that it defeats all the advantages of having an iPad. If you're going to limit it that much, might as well buy them a cheap $99 android tablet, or a kindle.

    4. Re:Moral panic incoming... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Right because there are no such programs called "Profile Manager" or "iPhone Configuration Utility" that let school admins control what student can access on an iPad.

    5. Re:Moral panic incoming... by goldspider · · Score: 1

      If the idea is to simply replace textbooks (as suggested by the headline) there are better options than the iPad. Every school district I contracted at was already very restrictive with their IT policies.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    6. Re:Moral panic incoming... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Education is most effective when it's self directed. White listing limits the ability for the student to research what he's interested in.

      The real question is, what's wrong with a little porn during a study break?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Moral panic incoming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait for the first student to get caught by their parents looking at porn on their school-suplied iPad. Those things will be locked down so tight after that, Apple could only dream of that kind of control. Probably have web browsing disabled entirely, along with all apps except the book reader, and that set to only open approved school-distributed texts.

      Interestingly you can't really do that on an iPad.

      There's no way to disable safari or any of the other built in apps, and you can wipe the whole thing and reset the parental controls simply by plugging it into iTunes. Now if they were using Android the could commission a custom version that restricted app installs, and used a web browser that routed through their filtering server.

  23. You can annotate a tablet by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    with the same set of motor skills you annotate a book...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  24. There are requirements to list books and prices by tastiles · · Score: 5, Informative

    But there are requirements to list books and prices! The federal Higher Education Opportunity Act requires colleges and universities to make public lists of books and other materials that will be required for each course by the time of students are expected to enroll in those courses. This was supposed to drive down the cost of textbooks because it will give students more time to find online prices. As a professor, I haven't noticed much of a change since this law took effect in July 2010, the prices in the bookstore are still outrageous.

    1. Re:There are requirements to list books and prices by scottbomb · · Score: 1

      And sometimes the book costs more than the class! That was the case for me recently (pre-calc). I refused to give into the extortion that is the college textbook racket and I didn't buy the book. I did fine because the teacher rarely used it. When I did need additional help, there were plenty of relevant tutorials online.

  25. Education on vendor lock-in by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    Creating a reliance on a locked-up platform doesn't make much sense for a school.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  26. Open Source books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would this not help open the industry to open source book projects?

  27. Too fragile by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    Build a tablet that doesn't break if I drop it down a flight of stairs, and has 40 hours+ battery life and I will start caring. I don't even care if the thing is many times heavier than the current ipad models.

  28. But wait... by Dogbertius · · Score: 1

    Probably have web browsing disabled entirely, along with all apps except the book reader, and that set to only open approved school-distributed texts.

    Wouldn't Amazon be able to sue Apple for such a blatant knockoff of the Kindle?

  29. why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by Chirs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    University is for learning. The idea is that you open the textbook on your own to gain a deeper understanding of the topic than you had time to cover in class.

    1. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by ironjaw33 · · Score: 2

      University is for learning. The idea is that you open the textbook on your own to gain a deeper understanding of the topic than you had time to cover in class.

      This. If you have to constantly resort to the book, the professor isn't doing his or her job. For most of my college courses, books were more of a "second opinion" that I could reference when I had trouble understanding something.

    2. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      But why would I open a book about the same thing I'm having a class about? If the professor doesn't use the book, it is useless. And the student is probably more interested on something he'll never see in a class (and rightly so).

      When I was a student, I looked at those book lists as a recomendation. Brought some of them, ignored most. I only missed a of the books I ignored once.

    3. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's only when the textbook is any good, of course... When it doesn't cover the material more than superficially, or the examples and explanations are totally lousy, and the (poorly) worked-out answers require the purchase of yet another book: a $50 study guide....

    4. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is so true.
      There is a reason my math courses never had collected homework. Oh sure, he's 'assign' pages with problems. but the whole point was to learn to do it. If you could do that from the lecture alone, great! I had to churn through 5 or 6 problems before I grapsed WTF I was supposed to do.

    5. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      In which case any textbook will serve the purpose. There's still no reason to have a professor assigned textbook.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by makubesu · · Score: 1

      Yes but in this case you should be allowed to pick your own textbook - preferably the ones that go for pennies at a used book store. That's how the class I just finished TAing went. The professor gave a list of suggested books, but a student could use whatever they wanted.

    7. Re:why wait until the prof tells you to open it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      University is for learning. The idea is that you open the textbook on your own to gain a deeper understanding of the topic than you had time to cover in class.

      This. If you have to constantly resort to the book, the professor isn't doing his or her job. For most of my college courses, books were more of a "second opinion" that I could reference when I had trouble understanding something.

      That would tend to indicate that the book should be on a "recomended" list rather than a "required" list.

      The problem is faculty generally list at least one required text book for every class regardless of whether they intend to actually use the book as part of their course.

  30. They're old dogs. by AdamJS · · Score: 1

    And they can't learn new tricks.
    Schools are used to being locked into publishers, or rather, a specific set of a succession/pattern of publishers for sets of X years.
    In essence, they are used to and they "go for" a form of vendor lock-in, which ultimately just makes everything worse.

    Some sort of paradigm shift away from textbooks may be inevitable, but it will require a drastic revamping of infrastructure; the day that most students are bringing tablets to school is the day that those students are also not charging their book-pads before school.

    Quite frankly, unless a specifically long-lasting-battery and rugged tablet model comes onto the market, it just won't be practical. Now, E-Readers? There's an option that might work better, if only the tech was faster.

  31. Really? by AdamJS · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That seems like exactly what they've been doing for over 30 years.

    That's kind of why textbooks have more or less been re-using the same core knowledge yet costing more and more each year. They haven't been improving the way they teach the material as much as the "buy a new book every year" mantra would lead most to believe.

  32. online textbooks by Insightfill · · Score: 3, Insightful
    My daughter's 6th grade school got a small number of textbooks early, and they're ramping up supply.

    As a solution, and also a 'value-add', they've got a per-student login system to the book publisher for online versions of the books.

    It's been a disaster.

    Leaving aside that not all kids have unfettered internet access at home - those kids get real books early - it was easily one month into the school year before they got the kids accounts and passwords to read the books. Each kid needs their own login.

    Then: you're relying on each 6th grade kid to write down a case-sensitive login and password in class, then try it at home. Since they might not have homework that day for that class, it may be a week before they get around to checking the login. When it doesn't work, you then need to communicate back to the teacher - through your kid - for a better password. The "lost password" link just says "talk to your teacher."

    We finally were able to successfully log in to two text books mid-November.

    For another class, the teacher provided a 40 character long, case-sensitive URL for the kids to log on and check for homework. WTF?

  33. Tablet propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yeah, another well placed article strategically placed in the hopes that it will be discussed. This is nothing but a covert advertisement and an attempt to promote yet another place where "tablets are thriving", specifically the iPad. I've heard of and read quite a few stories like this claiming everyone everywhere is using tablets in just about every field for all kinds of work. The reality is I rarely if EVER actually see them being used at all out outside of when someone is commuting or sitting on their couch. They are basically used to occupy and pass time if you in a situation of rest and you don't feel like day dreaming.

  34. My Experience this semester.. Pros Cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I used the APP CourseSmart for my books this semester...

    Pro's: I never carry around weight.. Just an ipad.. Books were similarly priced as used books.. Can take notes slowly, read textbook, and use google/wiki/wolfram alpha all in one light form.

    Con's: DRM, if you are flipping thru an index, say 30 pages in a row, the APP locks you out with a message about copying the textbook. Easily fixable but highly frustrating.. Also, For say my Calculus II class, when you have to refer to the beginning of the chapter for an example, then back to the problem set. Its slow to flip pages back and forth and cumbersome... DRM for caching the entire book to the ipad is glitchy and you get locket out.. If you don't cache, page flipping is dependent on your connection. High latency.. And in the case of CourseSmart, you can only see the text book for 180 days or so...

    1. Re:My Experience this semester.. Pros Cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the Cons outweigh the Pros...

  35. That should be the case.. by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The most logical thing to do would be for the US government to commission the creation of free textbooks. Since they buy the books for poor students, they would recover their costs very quickly.

    The fact that you have to pay much for any grade school or high school book is silly. A fourth grade math textbook can be written once and once then it just needs to have a few cultural references updated every twenty years. A history or science book will need more updates. But those could mostly be produced for free for students working on their Education doctorates, teachers earning continuing education credits, or other volunteers submitting small changes wiki style.

    1. Re:That should be the case.. by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Well, it wouldn't necessarily be done by the federal government, but even when you consider how much money the students at California's public universities waste on lining the pockets of predatory publishers, and how much freaking nobel-prize-winning academic talent they have on their payroll, somebody should be able to connect the dots. Even if it's just physics, math and chemistry books - the savings in California alone might reach millions per year.

    2. Re:That should be the case.. by tepples · · Score: 1

      The most logical thing to do would be for the US government to commission the creation of free textbooks.

      Why wait for the kleptocrats when Wikimedia Foundation is already doing Wikibooks?

    3. Re:That should be the case.. by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      The first state to do this at the k-12 level won't just save money, they will earn cash. The trick is to license to other states. And do it cheap enough that it's cheaper to license than to create an independent program.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    4. Re:That should be the case.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That will be great when the Fundies take over the government.

  36. bluetooth keyboards how meny can you have in the by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Bluetooth keyboards how many can you have in the same room with out have issues with them cross talking over each other?

  37. why iPads? by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

    Why not an ereader likethe kindle or nook? Theyre cheaper and better designed for the role

    1. Re:why iPads? by gnu-sucks · · Score: 2

      Why not a kindle or nook? Because they suck at reading PDFs. Yes, they can technically show a PDF on the screen. But unless that PDF is formatted for a small screen size, the experience is going to be awful. The more expensive devices (iPad, color-screen-glossy nook-kindle-whatever, $400+) have solved this with better multi-touch zoom and pan options, but then you're going to pick the iPad if they're in the same price arena. Just go on youtube and look for "kindle touch pdf reading" and you'll see how awful it is.

      For someone trying to study, you need the ability to quickly browse material and annotate, and the cheaper devices don't offer this in any reasonable way.

      So why not a netbook? Sure, a netbook can display PDFs quickly. But if your input is limited to mouse and keyboard, you're ten times less likely to annotate. Which is the function you would normally perform on a real paper textbook. So the iPad and other stylus-bearing devices come out on top, due to their size, advanced software, and input methods.

    2. Re:why iPads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do almost anything with convertible netbook with touchscreen. Does not look cool though.

  38. Some names are ridiculous... by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 2

    Around here, all dark soda drinks are "coke".

    Then again, it doesn't have to be good, it has to be short. iPad is easier to say than a Samsung Evo Touch G1 Plus Z. Android name courtesy of http://androidphonenamegenerator.com/

    --
    I8-D
    1. Re:Some names are ridiculous... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Some names are ridiculous... by aaronjp · · Score: 1

      Around here it's more like:

      Me: I'll have a Coke.
      Wait/er/ress: Is Pepsi ok?
      Me: Sigh, I guess.

    3. Re:Some names are ridiculous... by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

      Haha, exactly. I just hate it when I order a Sprite and I get a Sierra Mist. Or I order a Mr. Pibb and get Dr. Pepper. Or I order a Big Mac and the stupid lady at Burger King gives me a Whopper. ;)

      --
      I8-D
  39. The word is Metonymy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's why we use kleenex, not tissues, and down south they drink sprite coke, and why the drug companies sell Tylenol, and Aspiin and not acetaminophen and acetyl salicylic acid (ASA).

  40. DRM is the opposite of platform agnostic by tepples · · Score: 2

    Digital restrictions management is the opposite of platform agnostic. If a textbook publisher chooses to strike an exclusive deal with iBooks, and the instructor is already locked into that publisher, tough droppings.

  41. Um... by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    The price of the iPad pays for itself after a single semester,' Petit said. 'iPad books cost so much less it's a legal alternative for students who are using BitTorent [to pirate books].'

    Right, and where do you think they're getting those electronic text books from? Since they're broke after buying an IPad, who wants to bet it's Bit Torrent?
    Last time I tried to buy textbooks online, they were almost the exact same price, so this wouldn't really save them all that much...

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  42. Re:bluetooth keyboards how meny can you have in th by Dogbertius · · Score: 2

    Bluetooth keyboards how many can you have in the same room with out have issues with them cross talking over each other?

    There are 79 usable frequency bands, as Bluetooth uses frequency hopping techniques. So long as you are not attempting to perform the initial pairing operation for all keyboards simultaneously, you should be able to get a few dozen devices working at the same time for normal operations. It will likely wreak havoc on your wifi network though. Additionally, BlueTooth dongles can typically connect to as many as 7 devices at the same time. Hope this helps :)

  43. Please stop the ads by Corson · · Score: 1

    Please stop advertising for these companies. I hate the mere thought that a company could delete an ebook that I have purchased.

    1. Re:Please stop the ads by koan · · Score: 1

      Then stop buying ebooks.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  44. Color illustrations and iBooks exclusives by tepples · · Score: 1

    You just wanted an Ipad plain and simple, otherwise the $99 kindle would have been much better at reading books anyway.

    For one thing, the Kindle that can display color illustrations is twice that. For another, publishers have every right to deal only with Apple and decline to deal with Amazon.

    for the positive sciences most books can be ordered in the special-price Indian editions.

    Watch out when the publisher reorders the exercises in the Indian version.

    1. Re:Color illustrations and iBooks exclusives by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      For one thing, the Kindle that can display color illustrations is twice that. For another, publishers have every right to deal only with Apple and decline to deal with Amazon.

      Are you a bit slow? The whole point of the gp is that e-ink is better for reading books regardless the fact that it is not color - the Kindle Fire is not e-ink, so it is not better than the Ipad (just cheaper). Plus, we are talking about textbooks here not coloring books for 5 year olds...

      Watch out when the publisher reorders the exercises in the Indian version.

      Actually they are called "International Editions" and they are very popular with students since they are identical to the original with the only differences being that they are paperback, with thinner recycled paper and usually not color printing. But I have never seen one that was not exactly the same content (including the order of exercises that you mention). Now, another way to go cheap is to get the previous US edition, but that does have the problems with re-organized chapters & exercises. I have seen professors who care about their students work with both versions (i.e. only common content, or add notes for students with the old edition).

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    2. Re:Color illustrations and iBooks exclusives by tepples · · Score: 1

      Plus, we are talking about textbooks here not coloring books for 5 year olds...

      I agree that e-ink is better for black and white, but I'm still under the impression that iPad and Kindle Fire are better for color. Allow me for a moment to put up a straw man version of what you appear to be saying: "All college-level textbooks are just as good in black and white, no matter the subject." Art textbooks, anything with a lot of charts and graphs, and possibly some use cases that I can't think of at the moment could benefit from color. So what's the difference between my straw man and your position?

    3. Re:Color illustrations and iBooks exclusives by Ecuador · · Score: 1

      Well, now you are going for exceptions. Yes, I agree there are exceptions (my coloring book example was an extreme one for the dramatic effect), the art books are such exceptions (except the ones about marble statues I guess...). The "lot of charts and graphs" is not really in this category, as I had many books with charts and graphs in my time which were fine in monochrome paperbacks. So, you can't say the Kindle Fire is better for reading just because it will show color in art books and magazines. For the vast majority of textbooks (hint: notice etymology of "textbook") the e-ink display is much better for reading and actually a decent replacement for paper. In fact, even for color magazines I would say the e-ink display has such an advantage at readability that many people wouldn't mind the lack of color.

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  45. Yeah, also the internet is a fad. by Brannon · · Score: 1

    and I don't see this printing press thing working out, either.

  46. Worked for Apple by koan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple has an entire team dedicated to education, they have the entire Maine school district, Los Angeles, Texas, Hawaii and several other states using their hardware so it is only natural that these same customers will move to iPads.
    The issue here is textbooks on the iPad are cheap now because of marketing and getting people on the platform, once there the prices rise, one other thing would be 3rd graders using iPads, guess how many are going to get broken and need replacement, plus only a smattering of schools purchased accidental damage coverage from Apple, the rest just got "Apple Care" which only covers manufacturing defects not accidental.
    Apple is perfectly positioned to take advantage of the education market, they've been farming it for quite some time and they do it well.

    Get over root access, the majority of users shouldn't have anything greater than limited application access to computers much less root access.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  47. Wow I never thought by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    that in my life time I'd see real scary sci fi story come to life, like a generation of kids who don't know what a paper book is.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  48. Moderation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    “Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.” - Robert Heinlein

  49. Goodbye Texas textbook Influence by sziring · · Score: 2

    With ebooks we no longer have to worry about one State's ability to influence the textbook publishers for the other 49. We do have to worry about certain areas desire to change "history" to reflect their own believes or views. There might be a whole lot of God references in a catholic schools textbook about founding the US for example.

    --
    www.moonnext.com
  50. Stone Age books Just as Good? by SoulNibbler · · Score: 1

    They are better! Old text books in math and science, if they cover the topics are better in my experience. The small collection of monographs is better than any 600pg tome.

  51. Stupid School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the school will buy one of the most expensive tablets to give to elementary school kids who will more than likely break a bunch of them over time. Unlike books you can tape or rebind a tablet. I think tablets in the school are a great idea but if your using them to simply display entertainment you should get one that runs Android and costs half as much...like any of the Archos tablets. You then need to get a great warranty plan and some industrial cases. Personally you'd be better off spending money on touch screen all-in-one desktops.

  52. This post is false...beyond false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is beyond false. Our school has investigated this and found that in most cases, publishers:
    1. Charge MORE for eBooks than paper.
    2. Force you to buy BOTH the paper book and eBook.
    3. Some publishers licensing requires that you physically store the dead tree version of the book in order for the ebook licensing to remain valid. There are districts all over the USA that have HUGE storage facilities that do nothing else but keep brand new unopened dead tree versions of a book for the purpose of the district being "allowed" to use the ebook.
    This is beyond ridiculous. Open source textbooks are the way to go. I'll never purchase another commercial textbook again until this ecological disaster is stopped.

  53. He who controls the power outlets by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    controls the world.

    /Bad Idea.

  54. University Textbooks Abroad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was born in the US but my family moved to Europe years ago and here's my experience with university textbooks:

    I finished my 4-year physics degree just this year and purchased a total of five books, worth around 20-30 euros each as many of them were written by university professors from around the country, though each university has its own publisher. My purchases were made after finding out which books I always ended up consulting, which means I've used them for more than one class. In fact, many of my classmates haven't bought more than a single book (one on mathematical tables and statistics to help solve problems during exams) as most professors write their own notes and if you had any questions or wanted to learn more about a subject then you could consult the bibliography and get what you need from the library. Another option, even though it's technically not allowed, is to print out a full textbook after finding a digital copy (note: I only ended up resorting to this after failing to find the book in the library and discovering that it was worth over a hundred euros on Amazon).

    So coupled with the fact that I paid approximately 1200 euros/year on tuition, from a financial standpoint I'm happy I decided to stay in Europe for my degree.... though I will admit that I wouldn't be averse to going to an American university for a PhD, but that's a different story.

  55. i always thought by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    that elementary school students are the most appropriate market segment for iPads.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  56. Personal observations by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    The folks who were education majors when I was in college fell into two categories. The much smaller minority were men who were in Ed for one sole reason: they wanted to be coaches (they were all major sportos). The larger group (young women) only wanted to teach kindergarten or early grades for one sole reason: maternal feelings for the cute kiddies; most of them dreaded the thought of teaching in junior or high school.

    These attitudes, combined with immorally low pay for the classroom folk (as opposed to fatcat admins), it is little surprise US primary education is screwed with no chance for improvement. It also doesn't help that the right wing is actively trying to destroy it so as to have ever more easily manipulated ignorant people.

    1. Re:Personal observations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also doesn't help that the right wing is actively trying to destroy it so as to have ever more easily manipulated ignorant people.

      Speaking a product of the Mandatory State Education System, pushed and implemented by those firmly in the left wing, I find it amusing that the liberal groups seem to be winning the information war ("start on 'em early, tell 'em often, and they're yours" seems to be the mantra) and blaming the more conservative left for the whole thing.

      Unfortunately, the only real difference between you and me is that I''ve apparenly wised up to the rhetoric and the finger pointing and actually found out just how it started, and what it's intended to do.

      It's all just a taxpayer-funded babysitter who will gladly indoctrinate any child it can get hold of into adopting the liberal mindset and further increase its power base... too bad some of their end products actually wise up and stop taking everything at sound-bite value.

  57. Students learned to use iPads quickly by ai4px · · Score: 1

    In another classroom, droves of students learned to operate the UI of a dead tree even faster than our iPad control group learned to use it's apps.

  58. Cost of ipad replacement vs. your old book costs? by fantomas · · Score: 1

    So - that looks like something like 40 ipads lost in the last 3 years. 400 dollars each? total 16,000 dollars replacement costs?

    How does that compare with how much your education area previously paid in replacing books in a similar time period?

    I have to admit though I am very impressed that you've deployed approx 4000 devices and had approx 40 losses, 1% loss over three years, 99% continued use of original devices is very impressive.

  59. Silicon valley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lovely, now explain why all the Silicon Valley tech execs send their kids to schools that do not use technology.

  60. Yes but... by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    What are you going to use to prop up table legs, coffee tables, and various other things with thick text books after you are done with them! :)

    Though honestly if it wasn't for the greed, this would never be a problem. A 200$ book it one thing. A 15th edition of a 200$ book that publishes a new version every year for the sake of sales is another... on a subject that is essentially unchanging.

    Time was you could take your 200$ book, and if you bothered to take care of it, you could sell it used, and make a portion of your money back. How are you going to do that with an e-version on your iPad?

    Anyway the whole thing is just a con game.

  61. Saw this coming a mile away.... by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    I remember watching ST:TNG and got to say, those iPads seem mighty familiar..... but it is ok, as long as they come out with a tricorder pretty quickly.
    Books are a thing of the past, mags are too, newspapers too...why waste the trees when we have digital media now?

  62. Do they want save money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy a Kindle.

  63. Many printers are misconfigured by tepples · · Score: 1

    You are correct that many printers deployed in schools are misconfigured not to do any authentication, authorization, or accounting. That doesn't mean they must remain so.

    1. Re:Many printers are misconfigured by vlm · · Score: 1

      You are correct that many printers deployed in schools are misconfigured not to do any authentication, authorization, or accounting. That doesn't mean they must remain so.

      LOL yes, yes it does. Schools are semi-legendary for not having resources to take care of simple things like this, and kids are legendary for reconfiguring things they have physical access to.

      On /. and among the delinquent types like myself, the port 9100 thing is known. Out in the world, your average minimum wage cable puller has no idea he needs to do anything other than plug it in and configure the name.

      Also I've seen devices like printers dropped off the IT support list... its just like a dvd player, you take care of it yourself, someone locally is assumed to be smart enough to replace the toner, the whole works comes out of your budget not the "IT" budget.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  64. ...like Apple iPod touch fourth generation by tepples · · Score: 1

    iPad is easier to say than a Samsung Evo Touch G1 Plus Z.

    Which is about as long as "Apple iPod touch fourth generation". If you compare just the product name, not the company name or the generation, you get "Eee Pad" to "iPad".

  65. Studies on Learning by YaddaMinski · · Score: 1

    Recent studies have shown that students retain more subject matter and "connect more dots" using physical books versus an electronic copy. This fact relates to the lizard/monkey legacy brain sub-unit that gets jazzed with 3-D texture. Until there is immersive virtual reality stick to a physical book for the heavy lifting and mark it up.

  66. I agree, and it's been that way for a while by jbov · · Score: 1

    Some historic examples: Frisbee, Hackey Sack, Kleenex, Sawzall, Rolodex, Rollerblade, etc...

    The product may change, but the ignorance of the general population remains.

  67. and that's a techer thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "'The price of the iPad pays for itself after a single semester,' Petit said" No it doesn't - the iPad pays for itself &c. The price doesn't pay for anything - you pay the price for the iPad. This kind of sloppy thinking seems universal now, even among teachers.

  68. SUCKERS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It amazes me how people fall for the 'text books should/could be cheap on a tablet' lie.

    Sure, electronic distribution and the elimination of paper, printing, storage, shipping, etc. should/could make textbooks a lot cheaper. But, people can't seem to remember that greed trumps logic EVERY single time. Once the tablet format is cemented as the way for text books going forward, people will be "surprised" by the fact that the new electronic text books cost nearly the same as the old paper text books. Profit! Oh, and you sell millions of tablet to boot! PROFIT!

    Meanwhile, how has learning been improved? Yea. That's what I knew all along.

  69. When a textbook uses OpenGL by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why is a kid "gaming" over 4 HOURS every day?

    Because geometry textbooks have 3D rotatable illustrations that use the gaming graphics API, and the textbook's publisher neglected to put in a user-selectable fallback to the old standby of front, side, top, and perspective.