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North Korea Threatens South Korea Over Christmas Lights
K7DAN writes "North Korea warned South Korea on Sunday of 'unexpected consequences' if Seoul displays Christmas lights near the tense border, and vowed to retaliate for what it called 'psychological warfare.' From the article: 'The tree-shaped, 30 metre-high steel structure on Aegibong hill - some 3km (2 miles) from the border - was illuminated by thousands of small light bulbs last year. It could be seen from the North's major city of Kaesong across the border, according to media reports. Pyongyang has previously accused Seoul of using the tree to spread the Christian message to people inside the secular state.'"
what it called 'psychological warfare.'
Big words for a country that built an entire town on their side of the border, just for propaganda.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
King Jong Il is the grinch! What a twist!
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Why does the world continue to pay any attention at all to north korea...
That is giving them what the nutjob wants.
For the first time ever, the term "war on Christmas" is actually accurate.
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While the North's reaction sounds predictably paranoid, the article seems to hint that some sort of propaganda is the purpose of the tree, as evidenced by whether it's lit or not being correlated with thawing versus tension of relations. I'm not sure how effective it'd be at spreading a Christian message specifically, but maybe it's intended to spread a sort of generic, "look how awesome it is just across the border" message?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I don't think I've ever seen such an uplifting tale about christmas lights before. From tacky to beautiful, whoever thought ruffling North Korea was in the cards?
Super Santa!
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
I know that North Korea is fashionably behind the times, juche and all; but seriously, this is a bit much.
The idea that Christmas trees are a symbol of Christianity, rather than some freaky pagan stuff, stolen for a while by Christians, and now firmly entrenched as a coniferous altar of Mammon for youth of all ages and faiths, is patently absurd.
Now, it is unlikely that pro-consumerist psychological warfare will be any more popular with our fabulously haired friend; but he needn't worry about the spread of any but the worldliest of indulgences...
'Cause they don't HAVE any light when the sun's not shining.
N Korea at night:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm
wow, for all the money we spend in the "cold" against North Korea, we could have just put up a few dozen Christmas trees and watched the revolution that will follow!!!
Thats pretty wimpy psychological warfare, as decorating pine trees in the living room and shopping and fighting people on black friday and singing about red nosed reindeer is hard core capitalist worship, its not christian at all. I don't even know how you visually "do" christian christmas worship other than something like a 200 foot tall "nativity scene" which unfortunately makes no sense to someone not already versed in christian theology (my son, when he was very little, called it "the farmers", too little to know any better, yet +1 insightful as it was, after all, in a barn scene...)
Now real christian psychological warfare would be a larger than life Easter scene of the last supper with the table unbiblically piled with tons and tons of yummy food... most of the NK either are currently starving or recently were starving so a big food display is going to rile them all up to no end. Maybe they do that? Waving a bunch of food in front of a starving man with a gun is probably unwise, maybe its going too far?
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Just build a huge Kim Jong-Il statue behind that Christmas tree. :)
When they shell the Christmas Tree to extinguish the lights?
I hope the S. Koreans aren't going to bus loads of small children to the tree for cute christmas photos and get caught by a deluge of N. Korean irritability.
I thought it was about booze, presents, parties, shopping and kitchy pictures of snowmen and santa?
I was stationed near the DMZ when I was in the ARMY. It's a very dangerous and volatile place just waiting to explode! The North Koreans are crazy; you never know what they will do. If a war breaks out between North and South, it will be the bloodiest and worse catastrophe in human history!
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Hans Brix? Oh, no. Oh, herro, great to see you again, Hans.
Mr. II, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, and your guards won't let me into certain areas.
Hans, Hans, Hans. We've been through this a dozen times. I don't have any weapons of mass destruction, okay, Hans?
Then let me look around so I can ease the U.N.'s collective mind.
Hans, you're breaking my borrs here. Hans, you're breaking my borrs.
I'm sorry, but the U.N. must be firm with you. Let me see your whole palace or else.
Or else what?
Or else we will be very, very angry with you and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.
Okay, I'll show you, Hans. You ready? Stand a rittle to your reft. A rittle more. Good. (trap door opens, leading to shark tank) There you go, Hans Brix. How you rike that, you fucking cocksucker? Do you have any idea how fucking busy I am, Hans Brix? Well, fuck you. You want inspection? Well, inspect that, you buttfucking piece of shit.
Finally shrug off that horrible regime and look back at history, they're going to be ultra, mega pissed off.
Dear leaders, my arse.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Well this is a first, we should mark it. This is the first glimmer of hope from that Regieme. The first time they have been worried about an enemy which really is insidious and they have every reason to keep out of their culture at all costs.... Christmas.
That ruiner of December, that event so horrible, that it can only be seen by the shear number of songs that are made to declare it the best time of the year. Summer needs no accolades. Nobody has to tell you "Isn't spring wonderful". A tradition which begins with the "waiting in line" and annoying people, and coordinating secret lists.
Of course, you can't be against it...for the children.
I say...good call Kim Jong Il. Lets hope this is a start of your countries march towards sensibility. In this one way, we could learn from you.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I have an easy solution. Just put up a giant menorah instead. Then you won't be spreading a Christian message.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
It's a country in the grip of a deified leader cult. They worship their tyrant and his father in a manner that would have made L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones jealous.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Seriously, put the tree back up there.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
How does calling decorative lighting "psychological war" further their cause?
I my book, that's called making yourself look ridiculous.
Who actually thinks 'birth of the Christian deity' when they see a tree with lights on?
The first thing I think is that It was nice of someone to make the landscape more interesting.
It is not Seoul or the South Korean government that display those Christmas trees.
They're 45% without religion and 23% Buddhist.
Those Christmas trees belong to Roman Catholics (~10%), who are allowed to have them - by the government.
I wish people would also distinguish more between a) Country, b) Population, c) Government (even though some still believe b) is responsible for c)
Every year I read one or more stories about how some dumbwit in some town is offended by any and/or everything the town does at this time of year. Lights, decorations, a blowup Santa, Star Wars parade... someone gets offended. Though this year at least one town told the person to gently sod off.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
As someone else already pointed out, DMZ is an extremely volatile place. This is not the first time when a tree is a source of tension. See the "axe murder incident": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_murder_incident
That a country threatens another with "unexpected consequences" just because a Christmas Lights.
To bad a Christmas Tree has absolutely nothing to do with any Christian message (beyond a vague "evergreen-eternal life" connection). The standard Christian message would be best represented (if you only get one image) of a dual image with an old-testament sheep sacrifice beside a crucifix. If you're going for a specifically Christmas message, then a nativity scene. A couple of my atheist friends have Christmas trees up. Trees and lights are fairly secular.
I'm afraid that S. Korea (and the rest of the world) is between a rock and a hard place on how to del with this despot. I mean forget about the small chance of war between the Koreas; a conflict that while producing a very large number of civilian casualties would be over in a week or two with the modern S. Korea army aided by the U.S. quickly recovering from the initial bombardment and then demolishing the N. Korean army.
No I'm talking about the millions who for two generations have led short stunted lives due to starvation and extreme poverty. They have been deprived of any contact with the outside world and have been controlled to an extent that makes 1984 seem like a liberal's paradise. It's really chilling to watch a documentary such as the one made when western doctors went in to provide free critical surgeries to the populace only to see the ones who lives they've saved turn around and condemn their saviors.
One of the main reasons why I do not invest in China is because of their unbending support of N. Korea. Better (they think) to let millions of Koreans die than to let the Americans have an ally abutting them on their northern border. The other reasons include Tibet, Myanmar, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran and basically all the non-democratic regimes in Africa who they prop up. I fully realize that the West is fully capable of rank hypocrisy but China doesn't even make a pretense of advancing the human condition.
I don't know what to do more than anyone else. Let this horrendous half-century holocaust continue or wage a war which would result on hundreds of thousands of casualties. I think the only way to decide on a firm course of action would be for S. Korea to have a national referendum as to whether or not to save the people who are literally their brothers. This makes planning surprise attack rather difficult though.
(Is "funnier" a legitimate word or not? I'm afraid I'm not a decider).
It's amazing how even the most oppressive dictator is afraid of a simple Christmas tree.
Christmas just barfed all over my neighbor's front yard. I run my house like a dictator. Too bad I don't have a proto-nuclear arsenal to threaten them with.
NK has a lot of personal support from Japan, lots of people there admire the "self-reliance" of the NK doctrine and donate large sums of money to the regime.
Revolution needs a seed and that seed can be bred out of a population. See former USSR countries where people embrace the free market by patiently waiting for the state to sort it out. Nobody who has not been in a concentration camp or decades in prison can possible truly comprehend what it must be like in that hell hole. Even reports from East Germany pale in comparison.
But what can you do? People are starving. Withholding aid (without killing of all smugglers and sympathizers) will mean only the rich get enough. And if thousands starve before a revolution is sparked? Then the reduction in the surplus population (Dickens) will mean that starvation sorts itself out.
Remember, that all the NK people who are in the middle, who watched people die fear what the revolution will do to them as much as the leadership.
Any NK soldier who knows what revolution means, will fear his own neck. As will his family who have benefited from the bonuses his service bought.
Divide and conquer at its worsted.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
What do you mean "Hello"? Provocative ******!
I tried that with my neighbors too, and it didn't work.
If it helps North Korea, I can point you to a store that has pretty good curtains!
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
...and this is just the airing of grievances.
If the people really wanted a new government then a few guns wouldn't stop them. The people with the guns are part of the people, not a separate entity.
It was used against rebels in Colombia. And it worked (well somewhat). Suprisingly, North Korea is scared for a valid reason.
And the trees were equipped with motion sensors so when rebels walked by it would... light up.
link here
Anyone who has seen the "earth at night" and the part of North Korea will immediately know this is South Korea boasting that they have electricity at all hours of the night.
Clearly North Korea is trying to keep their people in the dark about this, and are succeeding extremely well.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
How does worshipping an evergreen tree in midwinter spread Christianity?
I actually know somebody who thinks this way. They're not stupid. I think they're just ideologicly bent by hard-right elements in the Republican party. Note, I'm not painting the whole party with this brush. It's just that this element finds its home in the party, and once you start associating with people who think a certain way...
We geeks are not immune to this (Emacs, Ruby, etc... are the only true ways and all other ways should be suppressed).
It seems bloody obvious to a lot of us that if the US persued this course of action we would become the horror of the world, and a large portion of the world would unite to end the horror as it did with nazi Germany.
If you are immersed in hard-right culture, it's a lot less obvious. See also, the Milgram experiment.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
A house in front my residence increases the sheer lumen amount every year. I feel like Kramer and Seinfeld after Kramer got a neon sign right in front of his apartment.
North Koreans are used to darkness at night and those lights irritate them like halogen head lights of the BMW behind you in traffic.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
world's worst cranky neighbor. put up two trees with friggin lasers playing Christmas rock, and keep them up all night for days. screw 'em
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Mom: Walt, hit the retaliate button!
[Walt searches for the button]
Mom: Press any button! They all retaliate!
This is a calculated statement, try to think of it in terms of a positive message by NK in which they think many people will make their nation state attractive. The message makes sense ONLY in this context ...
They are well fed, happy, and productive (I'm typing this watching the letters appear on a SAMSUNG monitor, and its right beside another SAMSUNG monitor). People are happy, fed, educated, clothed, housed, and free to worship in a manner they wish. If none of that is allowed in the hermit kingdom, then change. I am willing to put up with the hermit kingdom being a pariah on the world, a boil on the Korean Peninsula. I'm even willing to put up with the idiotic (and I think Altzheimeric) ramblings of Kim Jong Ill (although I reserve the right to poke fun at the idiocy of those ramblings from time to time). But what I won't put up with is the spoil sport whineing about someone celebrating and having a good time. This is someone complaining about their neighbor (who has a big high fence and a lot of space between them), having a good time. Sorry, North Korea, but you 'uninvited' yourself from the party. You made your bed, and now you must lie in it. Years and years of bad decisions, indoctrination, stupid people telling others who know better what to do. China is making trillions every year. South Korea is making hundreds of billions every year. Both are genuinely highly successful and prosperous, and not just prosperous in some propaganda campaign, but genuinely prosperous. And sandwiched between them, North Korea. Dysfunctional. Poor. Starving. Unclothed. Uneducated. Badly under-performing in every metric of society. I have no doubts that people there must be heavily indoctrinated because 'natural logic' tells them that they society is dysfunctional. Psychological warfare? No. Its called prosperity and freedom.
Real ! Just over some lights . Oh that's right they want to keep their people in the dark .
North Korea has routine blackouts as well as air raids (fake or drill doesn't matter) 'caused' by the USA.
BTW, some USA planes that crashed during the "Victorious Fatherland Liberation War" which didn't contain bombs but instead contained diseases which still are causing North Koreans to get sick to this day!
Sometimes I think Fox News is run by former North Korean newsmen.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Your mistletoe is no match for my TOW-missile!
They'd probably nuke Wales or something.
They had it coming.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I'm wondering if the South Koreans could have a 400 foot tall, illuminated Jesus holding giant baskets of bread and fishes, complete with arena rock concert level sound systems blasting Handel's Messiah 24 hours a day, in place by Christmas day.
Check your premises.
If they hit us with their psychological warfare, than we should fire back with the very worst psychological warfare we have: Blast the Michael Bolton Christmas CD back at 'em!
I gotta say this is a first....they are thinking of retaliating against the sight of a christmas tree......by......having their own christmas tree....but the lights will be hanging upside down????
They surely would not start a war over a tree....would they?
This!
I laugh when religion gets blamed for wars - - like cave man wasn't killing their neighbors in the beginning.
Why do folks think people need "religion" for a reson to kill
FGS, can South Korea just hurry up and annex North Korea. The Chinese would bluster and carrry on but actually do nothing: Korea as an enemy would seriously set them back but as an ally would be extremely useful. We are all sick of putting up with the North's dinosaur idiot-run regime.
Yes, they are paranoid tyrants. However, you should definitely read the whole story, preferably from several news sources.
Those trees were put in place specifically a) right at the border and b) so that they could be seen from North Korea. The claim of it being intentional propaganda is certainly right on the mark. Whether or not it's "good" or "bad" is a question of perspective more than anything else.
Also, South Korea already stopped these christmas displays as part of the peace talks, and only resumed them last year after the peace talks went cold. Does that sound like a bit of revenge and kindergarden behaviour to you or not?
And while you probably don't see what's so bad about a couple christmas trees, ask yourself if you've had people in your country complain about a mosque or other religious building by some non-majority religion that people have prejudices against. I know I remember cases.
So, really, those paranoid tyrannic north koreans aren't all that different from people living not far from you.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Jeremiah chapter 11 is a brief read that seams to align well with the entire book of Revelation as to how foreign culture has become mistrusted into the verry destruction of the planet.
Also take a look at comparing King Herod's holiday of dipping the fertile chicken eggs into the blood of sacrificed virgin babies as being Easter whereas the Chryst's observance of The Passover angel occured a week before the pagan Easter.
Likewise, Chryst is pagan, being before his time and after, found under a log or beneath a stone just as he said and writ to his disciplined kin.
What more should be concerned of all the comparisons is that Judah is not a jewish tribe, as is how jews often claim Apostle Paul to be Jewish yet is written he is of the Tribe of Benjamin; and thereby is proof that Jews never had anything to do with Judah to begin with but just another religion of the Synagogue of Shatan astroturfing all over Jacob (Israel) and Isaac heritages that were likely bought from the liquidated assets of a widow or an estate sale a couple millenia ago. I distrinctly remember reading about Chryst being maliciously murdered by the Jews while still being the sacrificial Lamb and according to Hebrew Torah there were supposedly two other sacrifices in towe that none referenced proper as the Ewe and Ram. Where are the Ewe and Ram sacrifices?
Since its clear they want to create a state of War with just about everyone who disagrees with them, can we take a few measures to stop them before they Pearl-Harbor us?
(Sarcasm on) Next thing you'll tell me is that the majority of things people associate with Easter, like eggs and bunnies, has nothing to do with Christianity too (Sarcasm off)
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
shouldn't this be from the you're-a-mean-one-mr.-KIM dept, since Kim _is_ the surname....
We have christmas trees and christmas lights in Japan too. Very far people consider them christian or even religious at all. Given that that stuff supposedly originated from Pagans before the Christians stole it, I think people are thinking too much.
Everyone likes Christmas, Christian or not, because it's festive and they get presents. Christmas trees and lights look nice and festive, so people implement those too. I don't think South Korea is trying to act like a missionary here.
I fucking hate Christmas.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I'd put as many as possible up there, but put a bit of C4 and det-cord around em, see what happens.
Seeing how Christmas lights have nothing to do with Christianity, this is hilarious.
Just remember that both the corruptions overshadowing the true meaning of Christmas and the nature of Communism is both spread by Jews. For Kim Jong to express any kind of hatered towards the Menorah is contrary to his training, yet for anyone to accept a Christmas tree and defend it from Communist slurs is only a strawman trap. Few actual Christians realize that the Christmas tree is a ploy created by atheistic Jews to defend something that isn't Christian. You can almost even consider that the Christmas tree is an implement of voodoo ritual to harm Christians. Just read Jeremiah 10 and that's not even religion talking.
Communism was started by Jews durring the suppression of Russia where they groomed Mao Tse Dung in a Freemason lodge to enter China where he was noted of having killed over 100 million non-communist and non-political Chinese in order to establish the Communist-run Republic of China. You all must wonder how such a turn of event could arrive Chinese of all denominations and races alike to reach such a dispicable end to their dynasties and empire where was once begun by the noble Emperor Yan whom was known as a sacrifice himself in enriching the lives of Chinese health by being always the first volunteer to try medical and herbal remedies because of his pale skin exhibitted more detail on the effects to his body.
Korea as a whole was founded by Emperor Yan as one of the most culturally rich and beautiful blooming country and peoples with a pristine language and cherished landscape. Truly sad, but memories can live again, but few realize that the United States is as much of a vile presence in the area as is the Communists.