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Publicly Available Russian Election Results Hint At Fraud
gotfork writes "As some Russians protest the results of the recent election, several commentators (Russian), have started looking at the results which are posted to the election commission web site and there's very strong evidence of fraud. Voter turnout correlates strongly with percent voting for the ruling party, United Russia, and there are a lot of polling stations with nearly 100% turnout and 100% voting for United Russia in some unusual places. The raw data is posted so you can do your own analysis."
Do they do that at all in Russia? Still, 100%...lol. Putin doesn't even care anymore.
the Elections vote for you!
someone had to say it
I'm sure that if they used electronic voting machines the results would have been much more accurate. At least until Putin's old KGB friends got to them.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
In Soviet Russia the government votes for you!
The ad should be retitled "Russia Doesn't Even Bother to Pretend to Have a Legitimate Election." Why would they? It's Russia. Historically speaking, it'd be weird to the point of unsettling if it weren't rotten to the core.
Look, he's even offering to throw a tea party for all of you with doubts. Drink up!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Not true. The commies at least allowed a fair election, albeit after several decades of ruling with an iron fist.
Ten years? So.... you think the SSSR fell when Jeltsin stepped down?
Yes, yes. But 100% turnout from places that range from Apathetic to outright hatred of his Regime, and a majority vote for him? That's an entirely different level of bullshit than what Scott Walker could accomplish.
These are pretty different situations, i mean no one in the states would be ballsy enough to try to go "ahh fuck it, just put in we got all the votes from everyone".
In the US they have to at least try to be SLIGHTLY subtle.
Someone tell me/us about Russian politics. Does it matter?
For example, here in the US, there is one party, with one set of goals (globalism, imperial global warfare everywhere, war on drugs, tax relief for the 1% and F the 99%, deindustrialize the country, expand the parasitical financial sector at all costs, etc). We have two independent marketing departments that put on a huge show to pacify the population into thinking it matters which marketing department did a better job, D or R. But, it doesn't really matter which side's marketing message was better, we'll have the same result in the end. We've had stolen elections here, but rioting about it would be as stupid as rioting about a sports game, or fighting over a card or board game, in other words some folks take advantage of the chaos to steal goods from stores, about a hundred people will show up on the news because they like being on the TV news, but most people wisely just don't care. Once you're beaten down, you're beaten down for good, here.
Is it the same way in Russia, basically one party rule and it doesn't matter who wins, or does it really matter in terms of policies and leadership? I'm just trying to figure out if I should care, if this could in any way really affect anyone, or if this is like US politics where its about as important as a bad umpire call in a ice hockey game.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Russians are on the street protesting.
Americans are on the street protesting.
Europeans are on the street protesting.
The middle east is on the street protesting.
Africa is on the street protesting.
Dose anyone know a place where people are actually happy with their government?
FCKGW 09F9 42
And that makes me proud to be an American.
Our American leaders know we won't believe obvious fabrications like those goofy Russian yokels, so they temper the vote fraud just enough to fly under the radar. And thus they demonstrate how much more they respect the American people's intelligence than the Russian leaders respect their people's intelligence.
Suck it, Russia! USA Number 1!
Slashdot? Oh, I just read it for the articles.
I will take off my math skills for Putin!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
This is about Russia, not the US. Stay on topic.
Wow. Your first link is to an error that was literally caught within hours of it happening and didn't impact the final total. The other issues point to general incompetency and in some limited, local cases, actual fraud. That's really in the same category as nearly nation-wide fraud that looks centralized. And let's say for a hypothetical that the US election fraud problems were nearly as severe as the Russian ones or as severe. Guess what? That doesn't magically make them ok. That one country has problems doesn't make it ok when similar problems occur elsewhere.
Isn't it like 20 years?
The Volusia county error looks more like a botched attack on a voting machine than an actual error -- especially in light of the fact that there was a real attack on those machines that involved making one candidate's vote total negative prior to the election. Also, show me in my post where I said anything was "OK" -- my point was that the United States has some serious issues with its own voting process, not that somehow the Russians are justified in what they do.
Palm trees and 8
*Crosses arms while American flag waves in the background* "F(BLEEP)in" stupid Russians!"
--- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
WOT is showing that link is "red"...get it...
1. false equivalency. The fraud involved there is quantitatively and qualitatively worse.
2. irrelevant. Illegal and immoral behavior in one country does not make it OK in another.
So, United Russian wants to make themselves look "legitimate"?
How is releasing results that confirm blatant voter fraud helping their argument? This is only going to bolster the opposition who'll hold these results up and say "See... see how they fucked us all!"
It appears to me that Putin and his political machine are if anything, not stupid. They want to stay in power, indefinitely. This does not achieve this aim.
I can only imagine that there's an angle to this story that my westernized perspective and extremely poor understanding of Russian culture/politics can't quite grasp.
Please Russian slashdotters... please explain this!
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
...they'd got Diebold machines in.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Seriously. HAY GUISE LETS TALK ABOUT ME.
Or is he a Putin supporter?
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Votes given before the voting started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzOXn3wRjJU
Here's one with english subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLs8kv3u1hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Hw-5y9fy4zU
so what about Democracy?
it was the foundation of the "modern society".
Now its capitalism with is the most important thing in the world.
not people, not happiness, not doing the right thing
only money, and now everybody is wondering why there is so match criminality;
ill tell you: stealing = money and money = success how you get it is not important, everybody is stealing from everybody if they have the chance
(company's and governments F**** you any chance they have)
this is the "moral" that a "modern solidarity" has
I have family in Russia. One of them told me about their colleague, a woman who's responsible for signing the ballot count. The votes are counted, the Communist Party is a clear winner in that riding, and she signs. Someone from United Russia then brings her a different paper, with the count modified to make United Russia (Putin's party) win. She says "I can't sign this, this is fraud." "Sign it." "No, I can't." "Sign it or you'll lose your job." Her meager salary is already not enough to live on, she can't afford to lose it. So she signs.
Of course the results are fraudulent... they just aren't as good at hiding that shit as our politicians are. Of course, over there they just shoot people for asking the wrong questions whereas over here the government pretends to give a shit and gives politicians a slap on the wrist for getting caught...
The thing is that the author of such analysis makes the claim that the % of votes for a particular party does not depend on voter turnout. He thinks that percentage does not change, regardless of whether you have 10% turnout or 100% turnout. That's the lynchpin of his argument. I am not sure one can make that claim. You would have to be a sociologist, not a mathematician.
I don't see any protesters there. It must be the happiest place on the planet.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Yeah, I know. As several people have pointed out so far, the 3.5 million is a gross underestimate. We plan to do a more in-depth analysis soon.
Looking at the totals at the bottom of the article, the fraud would only lower the votes for Putin's United Russia by 6 percentage units. However, this would be enough to make a coalition of the second, third and fourth party larger than United Russia.
A kleptocracy run by exKGB (current KGB?) who stifles speech and protest "against the national interest" has some voting irregularities. Who woulda thunk it?
1988 is when the wall came down. 1991 is when it was dissolved. 20 years this month.
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
20 years ago on Christmas day!
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
I think election fraud is more common in Democracies than one would think or, at the very least, attempts are common. One only need point out the Diebold electronic voting machine scandal where a purported "bug" skewed election results in favor of the Republicans. While there is a remote possibility that this was an honest bug, I am not naive enough to believe it. Diebold refused to divulge their code and the machines didn't even have any auditing facilities. It is absolutely ripe for manipulation and enough money secretly changing hands can sway an election. I guess an honest politician is mostly an oxymoron.
Will be about everywhere if US takes actions somehow against Russia because that voting. You know, like defending with navy the protesters if they want to take down that government, or do some nasty computer virus to screw something there.
Putin's advisor says: ... Mr. Putin, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is your party only got 15% of the votes...
-
- And the good news?
- You still won!
Every end has half a stick.
Of-course it is all fraud, there are plenty of videos shot during the elections of so called 'carousel' (merry go-round) voters, who were paid to go and vote multiple times in dozens of locations for United Russia. There are cases of just stealing the final results and replacing them with fake pro-United Russia results. There are cases of pre-made voting ballots being thrown into the voting urns, all this is true.
But after the anti-Putin protest that happened last week, with over 40 thousand people attending just in Moscow (video) Here is a video of the anti-anti-Putin protesters (so pro-United Russia protest), that just happened, and this so called 'protest' was shown on the First Channel (main pro-government TV channel), saying that there were 25 thousand people in the crowd, which is nonsense, but more interestingly what kind of people were there. In that video the attendees are asked why did they come to this 'protest' and they either don't respond, or they are drunk and respond with pure nonsense, or they barely speak Russian (don't forget, United Russia) and they don't even understand the question well, but they answer that they are here at work or from their work.
So it's a sham, everything, start to finish (related videos to that one show people being invited to these pro-Putin protests with promises of money). Then there is this video, where people are being paid just after the pro-Putin protest. A girl in the video says: this is how we sell out Russia.
Yes, it's a sham.
You can't handle the truth.
Forgot to include the link from the 10th of December anti-Putin, anti-United Russia protests.
You can't handle the truth.
The wall came down in 1989 ...
Well, for most of 2011 at least.
For those not following the news, Belgium was without a government for the longest time in history, closing in on two years before FINALLY a government formed at the end of this year.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
America isn't a democracy it's a “limited-government constitutional republic.”
see: http://users.law.capital.edu/dmayer/Blog/blogIndex.asp?entry=20050606.asp
I know wikipedia says "Federal presidential constitutional republic" But it gave up being a "Representative democracy" of the people when it erroneously allowed the fiction of corporate personhood to persist.
This is about Russia, not the US. Stay on topic.
You must be new here.
Russians are on the street protesting.
Americans are on the street protesting.
Europeans are on the street protesting.
The middle east is on the street protesting.
Africa is on the street protesting.
Dose anyone know a place where people are actually happy with their government?
Iceland - they nationalised the banks and told the IMF to fuck off.
They devalued their currency, and their economy is now growing.
The President and Prime Minister are very popular.
So graze on, graze, you peaceful peoples!
/. junk filter.)
You will not wake to honor’s call.
What need have herds for gifts of freedom?
They’re used to shears and butcher’s stall.
(Original in Russian here. Could not pass
Sigh. Four years ago, United Russia fraudulently got the 2/3 majority in the current parliament, in the same way, with all the same-looking statistics. This parliament passed, without a contest, some "nice" constitution changes (extending the presidential term from four to six years, extending the parliamentary term from four to five years). Now United Russia has a simple majority, by fraud. Yeah, these are "very minor inconsistencies not affecting the election outcome", as Putin has replied the protesters days ago.
It's easy to say "the party of crooks and thieves," but the problem that lets this happen is deeper... it's in the people, in the deeply rooted customs of the country.
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
Those horrible, corrupt foreign Governments.
30 Major U.S. Corporations Paid More to Lobby Congress Than Income Taxes, 2008-2010
"Despite a growing federal deficit and the widespread economic stability that has swept the U.S since 2008, the companies in question managed to accumulate profits of $164 billion between 2008 and 2010, while receiving combined tax rebates totaling almost $11 billion. Moreover, Public Campaign reports these companies spent about $476 million during the same period to lobby the U.S. Congress, as well as another $22 million on federal campaigns, while in some instances laying off employees and increasing executive compensation."
To keep profits inflated by capturing legislation, favorable to their businesses. Free market, my arsehol3.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Yes. If they really aren't concerned with international intervention or bottom-up revolution that is exactly what they would do to remain in power.
Wow, a KGB agent learned to use a keyboard. That's 'intelligent' for you, dumb ass.
You can't handle the truth.
The majority of the military still votes Republican, so the Democrats are the ones you will find challenging their absentee ballots. It was a big stink in Florida in 2000, where Bush won largely on those absentee ballots. The Democrats were trying to throw out as many of them as possible.
If there was any effort to prevent your aunt from voting, it would have been by the Democrats in order to hinder that Republican voting bloc.
The US won't put voting results online. Won't make them public. Won't allow analysis.
Some precincts do. If yours doesn't, change your local laws.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The US won't put voting results online. Won't make them public. Won't allow analysis.
Wow, we're worse than RUSSIA!!!
I suppose maybe before we whine about THEIR elections we should make ours as transparent and fair.
Good luck with that.
E
huh? In almost every state in the union you can watch the unofficial counts come in live to the secretary of state, and you can read the vote totals anywhere else you want.... Many voting precincts physically post the voter registration rolls on the walls, so you can estimate turnout just by looking to see who hasn't signed . . .
Don't get me wrong, fraud is hardly unknown in US elections, but it generally only comes into play when the vote is very, very, close. Electronic voting machine issues aside, which really are being worked, for good or for ill.
All that said, I don't think this study IS necessarily PROOF of voter fraud. Its indicative, but without demographic analysis of the precincts involved, etc. (for example a precinct in Checnya could easily be 100% turnout, and possibly even 100% UFR if its a military base) Likewise, in the 2004 elections in ohio, republican precincts, which tended to be wealthier and less urban, had higher turnouts than democratic precincts. While there are a number of reasons for this, including accusations of suppression that have, in my opinion, varying degrees of validity (I was part of a GOTV effort myself, on behalf of the democrats that year, since I was unemployed and bored), some of it was just the nature of the people and their circumstances.
Personally, I think, based on what we've heard, that there WAS fraud, and at least some districts need/deserve a new vote, but proving voter fraud statistically is . . . difficult.
Where's Jimmy?
"The Borba"
Ahh, so obvious fraud is worse than subtle fraud. Gotcha.
And don't put words in my mouth claiming that I think it's OK for fraud to happen in Russia because it happened in the States.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
Not sure where you live, but here in Virginia online election results are posted throughout election night and kept up for anyone to see:
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Election_Information/Election_Results/Index.html
The bigger the government, the more this will happen.
Imagine a government that didn't have the power to create entire new industries, the power to pick winners and losers in the commercial sector, through regulation or legislation. The corporations that make money through this now wouldn't have anybody to lobby, they wouldn't have any influence.
Wow. I totally agree with roman_mir. That's something unusual.
Might be due to the lack of street though...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Not sure where ALL of YOU live,
But in the United States, the Presidential Elections (that's what we were talking about)
are NOT counted live, are not online, and votes are not verifiable.
So take you "in my precinct" and "in my parish" and" in my county" attitude and shove it.
US Presidential elections are not transparent.
E
Whatever, you shill, people were coming in and moving out and that 'program' uses faulty counting based on 'dark dots' or whatever. Definitely nobody was paid to go there unlike with these pro-putin bullshit.
You can't handle the truth.
Disabled veterans are eligible for a Department of Defense ID card, not just VA. It is considered a valid form of federal identification. Spouses and children of active duty personnel also receive a DoD ID card, valid as identification.
As far as food stamps, remember that the lower ranks are equal to entry-level jobs in any other profession (actually a bit better). They don't pay much, so it's not a good idea to start a large family at those pay levels. A young E4 makes $2,000 a month, which is great for a single guy who also gets free food, housing, utilities and health care. Get a wife who doesn't work and have four kids, you just screwed yourself (although the military actually pays more for that).
But still, there is no way that 40% need food stamps. Even then, any number is inflated because the USDA (the agency overseeing food stamps) doesn't count free government housing as income. Most military food stamp recipients live on base, getting this free housing, which technically brings their income into food stamp eligibility. If they lived off post and were receiving housing allowance (which is counted) equal to their rent and utilities, they would be making too much for food stamps.
1. Very detailed (down to individual voting stations) voting results were made available, although they were used to do similar analysis after the past elections.
2. United Russia was barely able to get the majority in Duma, even with all the "irregularities"
3. Internet was used to organize a mass rally (30-50k people in Moscow, thousands in other places). This one is a first. And these were not radicals that are happy to rally for whatever cause, but middle class - people that didn't go to the streets since 1991.
This is the first time in a while I have some hope for the future of Russia.
I do have a comment on the choices, there are no good choices in Russia, but saying Putin is the only choice because he is the least worst, the is the tallest midget in the room (no disrespect to the small people), is also wrong. To wrongs don't make a right, and so Putin needs to be removed, by force if needed.
You can't handle the truth.
And do you have to propose for Russia you facebook controled monkeys?
For starters, an actual democracy where people get exactly what they vote for.
Wow, for some reason the word "putrid" seems especially well-suited to describe the situation.
The way voting was arranged in USSR, it was, at least, more straightforward in being broken.
First of all, while the ballot, theoretically, could have multiple candidates, they could only be nominated by organizations (like trade unions), and all organizations were government-controlled. Normally one would nominate some Party bureaucrat, others would nominate token "best workers" and then withdraw their nominations at the last moment, leaving the ballot with a single name on it.
The second trick was the way voting itself was implemented. The instructions on the ballot were to strike out all names against the one guy you intended to vote for. Naturally, when there's only one name in the list, the choice is between not striking out anything (and voting for him), or striking him out (and voting against). Consequently, if you voted "for", all you needed to do was to take the ballot and immediately deposit it into the ballot box, whereas to vote "against" you needed to enter the voting booth where the pen would be found. So, in practice, the vote was open - if you entered the voting booth, you would be assumed to have voted against, and everyone would know it. This in itself was enough that most people wouldn't risk trying to vote against the Party-nominated candidate - there was no need even to crack down on those who voted against, since there were few enough of them that it didn't really matter - people "self-censored" themselves.
In Russia the belief in the secret ballot is so strong that not even the voter gets to see the ballot before it goes in the box.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
We typically don't give a fuck as long as long as someone ensures we have a beer in one hand.
It is a insightful comment, and I agree with you. It sucks, and the Russian people should have better than the status quo. Putin won't get Russia to any sort of ideal. But communism and ultranationalists won't either. They're a step in the wrong direction, and are even worse. You know as well as I do you would see more abuses of power, and less chance of a strong middle class forming.
Replacing Putin, violently or not, is only of benefit if the replacement is better than Putin, and United Russia. When they are worse in every way, it is pointless. Change isn't always a good thing, and killing is a two-way street.
Also, in the US, petroleum and mining jobs are very lucrative, and petroleum and mining engineers are at the upper end of the middle class. Even with corruption present the Russian standard of living and average income has increased significantly under Putin. That's pretty good, considering Putin came into a worse mess than even Obama, and walks a very, very fine line. Putin also did clean up a great deal of corruption and oligarchs from Yeltsin's time; if trying to do so gets you assassinated in Russia, then Putin is a very lucky man to get his tea without polonium.
Don't worry, we don't bomb countries with abundant piles of nuclear weapons.
Also, we can't understand why anyone would want nuclear weapons.
The wall came down in 1989 ...
The Berlin Wall wasn't in the USSR, genius.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Is the high inflation making their money somewhat valueless, the lack of any international credibility in the business markets, other countries viewing them as a basketcase, and them ending up more isolated than they really want to be in the world in the current era. Their populace may think everything is ok, but even they must have noticed that imported goods are becoming expensive at a greater rate than home produce is.
Citation needed.
Get real.
Well we were going to protest against the government, but people were either being poisoned by fauna or watching the cricket.