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Out of Sight, Out of Mind

PerlJedi writes "Researchers at the University of Notre Dame have conducted a very simple study, with some surprising (or at least amusing) results about how our short term memory works. Quoting: 'Sometimes, to get to the next object the participant simply walked across the room. Other times, they had to walk the same distance, but through a door into a new room. From time to time, the researchers gave them a pop quiz, asking which object was currently in their backpack. The quiz was timed so that when they walked through a doorway, they were tested right afterwards. As the title said, walking through doorways caused forgetting: Their responses were both slower and less accurate when they'd walked through a doorway into a new room than when they'd walked the same distance within the same room.'"

147 comments

  1. Common Knowledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is why memory heuristics work by combining location with data

    1. Re:Common Knowledge by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny

      So those WERE the droids I was looking for?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:Common Knowledge by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter where you are. The phenomenon is that when you move through a doorway that you have some subconscious trigger to forget (you are somewhere else, no need to remember anymore), not that being where you learned something makes you more likely to remember.

    3. Re:Common Knowledge by pfignaux · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Frank Lloyd Wright exploited this phenomenon in his architecture. If you're familiar with his "compression and release", you're probably also familiar with how dumbstruck a person can get walking into one of his buildings. http://goo.gl/H6ygK

    4. Re:Common Knowledge by mihalisgr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The phenomenon is that when you move through a doorway that you have some subconscious trigger to forget (you are somewhere else, no need to remember anymore)

      This, as well as the original post, are so completely false in logic that I can't even begin to describe it. Ok I will try to begin though.

      Of course, people who would be in an experiment, and would go through a door, would have different short term management than those who don't. Going through a door requires some calculations: opening it, closing it, the surprise of the environment of the next room, the risk of walking through the door (what lies beyond is somewhat random before you open the door/cross it, adjustment to the different light/temperature/humidity conditions, and many more.

      Those all don't happen consciously, but neither the short term memory is handled consciously. As a direct result, due to these factors all being way more important for the survival of the person, take high priority in the short term memory, with the direct results the test produces...

    5. Re:Common Knowledge by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Mod parent up.

      And mod down the moron that thinks you can't type anything meaningful in under 30 seconds. Some of us use used the copy of "Learn Typing with Mavis Deacon" we pirated^H^H^H^H^Hbought.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    6. Re:Common Knowledge by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      I haven't read the study, but the details in TFA are insufficient to gauge what is meant by a door. They call it "walking through a doorway" not "operating a door" or such. So the issue is walking into a new room, not operation of a door.

    7. Re:Common Knowledge by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I haven't read the study, but the details in TFA are insufficient to gauge what is meant by a door. They call it "walking through a doorway" not "operating a door" or such. So the issue is walking into a new room, not operation of a door.

      It doesn't really matter, the subconscious effects of preparing yourself to go into a new room, anticipating possible dangers and so on (as mentioned above in a post) are the same. The physical opening of a door isn't the crucial thing.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:Common Knowledge by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You are entering a door that you've been through before. You'll be on "there's a cheetah on the other side of that open archway" alert?

  2. Open the Door Jeopardy by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Alex Trebek: Good evening and welcome to another edition of "Open the Door Jeopardy" where contestants must step through a door after ringing in and answer because answering a 'clue' in the form of a question just isn't confusing enough. Ken Jennings, as our returning champion you start.
    Ken Jennings: I'll start with the category 'I Confess!' for $400, Alex.
    Alex Trebek: Very good ... 'His death and subsequent disagreement of heir resulted in the Battle of Hastings.'
    *Ken Jennings rings in, opens the door and steps through it*
    Ken Jennings: Um ... uh ... um ... I knew it a second ago.
    Alex Trebek: Ooooh, I'm sorry, time is up. Anyone else?
    *the heavy treads of IBM's Watson machine crush the door as it rolls in*
    Watson: Who was Edward the Confessor?

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by koan · · Score: 1, Informative

      Turd Ferguson.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    2. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turd Ferguson.

      Buck Futter.

    3. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      General Buck Turgidson?

    4. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by joeyadams · · Score: 1

      Alex Trebek: Very good ... 'His death and subsequent disagreement of heir resulted in the Battle of Hastings.' *Ken Jennings rings in, opens the door and steps through it*
      Ken Jennings: Um ... uh ... um ... I knew it a second ago.

      Short-term memory? It's more like he'd forget the question... err, answer.

    5. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by greghodg · · Score: 1

      I can't remember how it ends, but your mothers a whore!

    6. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a Minecraft gap?

      Precious Bodily Fluids for $800, Alex.

    7. Re:Open the Door Jeopardy by GarryFre · · Score: 1

      I don't need to open a door to know I have a book that have a short term memory leak.

      --
      www.Migrainesoft.com - Computer giving you a headache? We can fix that!
  3. Different conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Doesn't seem like it's doorways or line of sight, but changing rooms is like turning a new page in ones mind. New room, new collection of objects, new page of memory to work with.

    That's how I feel it works in my own mind in any case.

    1. Re:Different conclusion. by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Doesn't seem like it's doorways or line of sight, but changing rooms is like turning a new page in ones mind. New room, new collection of objects, new page of memory to work with.

      That's how I feel it works in my own mind in any case.

      Hundreds of processes happen, going from one room to another. Identifying the door is a good start (walls are so unyielding) looking for the knob, using hand-eye coordination to put hand on doorknob, turn, sense door opens or does not, pulling, pushing, how far is door open, don't hit it going through, see objects in new room, processes information (I didn't walk out into space and plummet like Wile E. Coyote, etc.) then resume walking, assuming you know what you came in for.

      Probably at some point they'll use this as a screen for Alzheimers Disease (or early onset dementia.)

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Different conclusion. by bistromath007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dammit, now I forgot what I came to this website for.

    3. Re:Different conclusion. by Quirkz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd argue that taking stock of the new room is the biggest of those distractors. There's a lot involved when you have to take stock of "new" territory, and it'd be pretty easy for that to distract you. Even if you're familiar with the room, it takes a moment to verify things are as you left them. We're not all that far removed from needing to figure out if there's something waiting to eat us around every corner.

    4. Re:Different conclusion. by _0xd0ad · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, it's pretty obvious really. It's a context switch.

    5. Re:Different conclusion. by swalve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Context is king in memory. It both helps and hinders. Memories are linked to the place and time where you first learned them. The brain is like a 3 dimensional chording keyboard combined with a hologram combined with photographic film. If you've only seen something once, you'll remember the context. As you see that thing more and more, the context/background gets washed out and all that remains is the pattern of the image/concept. So if you are told to remember the words "fish, piano, disestablishmentarianism, Arizona, and tooth", you are going to tie that pattern to the context you are in. Change the context and it becomes harder to remember.

      I wonder if it's cheating to "play back" your conversation with the person who gave you the list?

    6. Re:Different conclusion. by buswolley · · Score: 2

      Thank you. I signed in just to say this very same thing, and boom! there you are. Context is important in even short-term memory. The simplest explanation of course is that the presence of the original context provides a rich set of retrieval cues.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    7. Re:Different conclusion. by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It should probably also be noted that context is very important in data compression, and it doesnt seem unreasonable that brains have evolved to store information efficiently using some of the strategies that we have found successful in compsci.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    8. Re:Different conclusion. by marnues · · Score: 1

      Besides, I feel quite confident that when in a building, my brain clearly believes all floors are flat and ergo no processing to determine such. My proof is the number of small steps I've kicked and lumps I've tripped over. Not quite so instantaneously my brain first questions how this floor cannot be flat, I then become pissed off that I am no longer moving as I had intended and that my foot hurts, then my brain justifies it (accurately or not), and only then am I able to instinctively take action and protect myself from the fall. After it has happened a few times I move through those steps much more quickly and even had a room where upon entrance my brain prepared me for falling. That was about the time I discovered yoga and generally don't have such situational awareness issues anymore.

    9. Re:Different conclusion. by Rary · · Score: 1

      Hundreds of processes happen, going from one room to another. Identifying the door is a good start (walls are so unyielding) looking for the knob, using hand-eye coordination to put hand on doorknob, turn, sense door opens or does not, pulling, pushing, how far is door open, don't hit it going through...

      In the experiment, the doors were opened for the subject. Additional doors that were not part of their planned path were kept closed, so they hardly had to think about where to go next, just follow the automatically opening doors. Also, the first part of the experiment was conducted entirely using a first-person video game, so the only actions required by the subject were most likely holding down the "W" key while moving the mouse left and right.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    10. Re:Different conclusion. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      We're not all that far removed from needing to figure out if there's something waiting to eat us around every corner.

      So which part of Australia are you from?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    11. Re:Different conclusion. by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Ha ha! In my case I'm in rural Colorado, actually, where we still have bears and mountain lions which often aren't a direct threat to people, but which do cause a little trouble now and then. A co-worker has had a bear in his house, one of my wife's co-workers has pictures of a mountain lion resting in her back yard about a foot from the house.

      The black widow spiders don't compare to anything in Australia, but they've occasionally gotten into our house, so I'm often looking out for them, and while I've never seen one there are rattlesnakes in the neighborhood, too.

    12. Re:Different conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in LA, and my coworker has had bears at his house repeatedly. One of them was observed to be checking windows by leaning against the screens and seeing if they popped in so it could raid the kitchens, which it had done on several occasions.

      http://la.curbed.com/archives/2010/01/bears_take_monrovia.php

    13. Re:Different conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read to the part where they added a control where subjects could return to the original room or a third room, and observed no improvement in the former case?

    14. Re:Different conclusion. by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      It wasn't static. It went out of scope and was lost when the context switched.

      If you created a stronger association between the object and the room you'd picked it up in, it would be more likely that the memory would still exist in that context when you returned to it.

    15. Re:Different conclusion. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It should probably also be noted that context is very important in data compression, and it doesnt seem unreasonable that brains have evolved to store information efficiently using some of the strategies that we have found successful in compsci.

      That depends on whether you think human brains work just like a slightly more complicated binary computer or not. If they do, then it shouldn't be too long before we can create AI.

      It's a pretty big "if", but the proof of the puddingis in the eating.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  4. Or maybe by koan · · Score: 0

    There is so much competition for our attention such as TV, iPods, cellphones, computers that our short term memory capacity has collapsed to the duration of the average TV commercial scene, which is somewhere below 2 seconds.

    In other words 200 years ago this forgetfulness would not have been an issue.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Or maybe by masternerdguy · · Score: 2

      Without data to back that claim up you have a nice little anecdote to be added to the pile.

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    2. Re:Or maybe by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Short term memory is based on neurophysiology of the brain. That's not going to change that much over just a couple decades. Now, the amount of stress that we feel as a result of constantly paging between things would elicit that sort of response. And it's been studied, not conclusively yet, but multitasking is bad.

    3. Re:Or maybe by koan · · Score: 0

      Google.

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    4. Re:Or maybe by Dyinobal · · Score: 2

      Your one word response doesn't provide any data. Please provide links to this data you found with google.

    5. Re:Or maybe by treeves · · Score: 4, Funny

      He would but he just walked through the door from the bathroom and has forgotten them.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    6. Re:Or maybe by idontgno · · Score: 2

      tl;dr

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    7. Re:Or maybe by swalve · · Score: 1

      Paying attention is as much skill as neurophysiology. If you don't (have to) force yourself to pay attention, then that skill atrophies.

    8. Re:Or maybe by Xtravar · · Score: 3, Funny
      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    9. Re:Or maybe by marnues · · Score: 1

      Some would argue that skills are directly relatable to neurophysiology.

    10. Re:Or maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You win.

    11. Re:Or maybe by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      It's a koan post. You're supposed to contemplate it, discover your inner peace, meditate, ask yourself the same question you asked of others, and become either enlightened or so frustrated you burn your master's straw hut down and evict him from the universe. What you discover about this one word will reveal much about the universe.

  5. It's quantum-mechanical by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obviously the subjects' brainwaves diffracted when they walked through the door...

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    1. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by JonySuede · · Score: 3, Insightful

      don't you need two doors for that ?

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    2. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by masternerdguy · · Score: 1

      Some rooms have 2 doors on the same side of the wall.

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    3. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Informative

      don't you need two doors for that ?

      No.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    4. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      Yay, I learned something today.
      If the room have a long door of infinitesimal width it can work to !

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    5. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yay, I learned something today.

      Only until you leave the room.

    6. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by loosescrews · · Score: 1

      No, one slit (or door) will cause diffraction. You can read about it on Wikipedia:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction#Single-slit_diffraction

    7. Re:It's quantum-mechanical by stms · · Score: 1

      They should have had a control group wearing tin-foil hats.

  6. Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by RobinEggs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So many famous quotes talk about the gravity of "walking through that door", about the hope of "opening a new door" or "closing a door...opening a window" that I wonder how much people associate doors metaphorically with permission to forget and ignore everything on the other side?

    Of course, ancient Greeks used architecture, specifically an image of a large house, to remember things: a common technique to plan and memorize a speech was to lay it out visually in your head, each room representing a major topic and each door perhaps representing a transition or gravid point. So architecture as memory cuts both ways.

    1. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A door opened, I went through it!"

    2. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by burleywinz · · Score: 4, Funny

      I did not know this and will try this technique the next time I have to give a speech. Are you supposed to start in the basement or the attic? Probably doesn't matter. I just hope I don't fall down the stairs.

    3. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by Anachragnome · · Score: 2

      "Are you supposed to start in the basement or the attic?"

      This is Slashdot--I think you know the answer to that question.

    4. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Aside from the basement jokes, I'm pretty sure the ancient Greeks generally built single story structures. You could make it multilevel if you want to compartmentalize the various bits, or even split-level or bi-level if you have arguments that are slightly off-tangent.

      Another useful trick is to attach different bits of the speech to different objects in the room you're planning to present the speech in... with the downside that the janitorial staff can easily misplace an entire paragraph, or get your arguments all out of order between memorization and presentation.

    5. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by hutsell · · Score: 1
      "The Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley.

      ... I wonder how much people associate doors metaphorically with permission to forget and ignore everything on the other side? ...

      --
      Yesterday's Weirdness is Tomorrow's Reason Why
    6. Re:Life Imitates Art, or vice versa? by sartin · · Score: 1

      "Are you supposed to start in the basement or the attic?"

      This is Slashdot--I think you know the answer to that question.

      Just for clarification: You start and finish in the basement.

  7. Context-switching matters by Caerdwyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switching contexts is computationally expensive for our brains, and is a lossy procedure. Any techie can tell you that constant interruptions cause bad code because you lose context and the "gestalt" of what you are doing.

    It's one of the reasons why I've always insisted upon having at least one guaranteed-uninterrupted (nothing short of "the building's on fire... again") two-hour block of time per day in any tech job I have. If I don't have that, don't complain to me that I write bad code, but DO expect me to gripe about it in my status and my supervisor evaluation.

    #!/usr/bin/env python
    import os, sys, time, re, LeaveMeTheFuckAlone

    --
    Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
    1. Re:Context-switching matters by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Switching contexts is computationally expensive for our brains, and is a lossy procedure. Any techie can tell you that constant interruptions cause bad code because you lose context and the "gestalt" of what you are doing.

      While that is true, it does nothing to diminish the weirdness of this result. Walking from one place to another doesn't seem like much of a "change of context." Especially when your present location has utterly nothing to do with what you're trying to remember.

    2. Re:Context-switching matters by marnues · · Score: 1

      Weirdness, I don't get it. Walking through a doorway involves a lot of quick sensory work eating away at caches and main memory. These instinctual kernel processes take precedent to user-land thought processes. An obvious survival technique.

    3. Re:Context-switching matters by masternerdguy · · Score: 1

      But what if the brain uses hypervisors?

      --
      To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
    4. Re:Context-switching matters by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Really? You think walking through a door is a mentally taxing procedure?

    5. Re:Context-switching matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure it does, when you enter a room, you need a little time to process the new environment, shapes, colours, sounds, spacial locations etc, which is much more important than remembering what you have strapped to your back. It's a simple survival instinct that forces you to prioritize things this way. There are some funny bits in movies where the opposite happens, and some guy gets up in his pj's with a mug to get some coffee while people are shooting at each other around him.

    6. Re:Context-switching matters by bipbop · · Score: 2

      I can't argue, but I do notice I think very differently in different physical spaces. I find I can solve coding architecture tasks better if I go for a walk outdoors, for example. Sitting in front of my computer seems to be better for detail-oriented work. So while I don't really understand how the brain works, and I wouldn't have guessed the results if you'd asked me beforehand, they do make intuitive sense to me. Changing spaces affects cognition.

    7. Re:Context-switching matters by Baloroth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh hell yeah. Is the door pull or push? Can I lift the handle, or do I have to push it down?

      And don't even get me started on automatic doors. You need differential calculus to walk through them properly: is the door going to be wide enough open for me to get through it at my present speed, given a low threshold of detection, or am I going to pull a Bieber and smash my face into it?

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    8. Re:Context-switching matters by deblau · · Score: 1

      You have to context switch from walkToObject(environment, objectLocation) to avoidObstacles(environment, perceptionFilters). Yeah avoidObstacles() is just a function call, but it's a processor-intensive one and it has higher priority.

      --
      This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
    9. Re:Context-switching matters by pclminion · · Score: 1

      I didn't say I don't believe the result, just that it's a weird result.

    10. Re:Context-switching matters by eulernet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Switching contexts is computationally expensive for our brains, and is a lossy procedure. Any techie can tell you that constant interruptions cause bad code because you lose context and the "gestalt" of what you are doing.

      In fact, it's a little more subtle than that.
      What is expensive is not switching contexts, as you can check by reading 2 web pages simultaneously, it's pretty easy.

      But your performance degrades a lot when you try to multitask with your two cerebral hemispheres (for example computing and drawing at the same time).

      Also, when you have similar tasks, you have an internal limit, and you can easily store tasks that fit within your limit.
      When a task is closed, you'll forget it immediately, to free space for an incoming task.

      My own limit is around 3.

      This is called Zeigarnik effect:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspense#Zeigarnik_effect

    11. Re:Context-switching matters by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 1

      I speak four languages, and sometimes switch in matter of minutes, it is a pain in the brain to realign to the new language , and sometimes in fact you completly forget the topic in question.

    12. Re:Context-switching matters by idontgno · · Score: 5, Informative

      Apparently (parsing TFA's explanation), yeah, it is.

      When you walk into a new scene, your brain performs a series of high-priority tasks to update your current situational map. It would be counter to your survival success to ignore new sensory and context information presented by rounding a corner or entering a cave, especially if that sensory information included such things a predators. Even if what you were pondering as you entered the new scene was, for instance, a very innovative way to knap and flake a stone axe that would really impress the Cro-Magnon chicks. Your pre-historic geek-trance will kill you if you wander all unawares into a cave bear den.

      As a high-priority background task, this situational integration would preempt cognitive resources, such as forcing a cache dump of short-term memory to populate with new page tables, as it were.

      Well, that's my interpretation. Sorry it's not a car analogy or a pizza analogy.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    13. Re:Context-switching matters by pclminion · · Score: 1

      My wife's family is tri-lingual and they will sometimes incorporate all three languages into a single sentence. When I point out that they've done this, they claim they didn't notice they were doing it.

    14. Re:Context-switching matters by swalve · · Score: 1

      I noticed the same thing. I don't really speak the languages, but I studied Spanish and German in school. The only way I was able to learn the languages was to think in those languages, and then it was completely natural. But the cost of that is, as you mention, when shifting languages. You have to manually translate whatever the concepts of the topic at hand are into the new language, which uses up some of your working memory.

      It is along the lines of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. (That the constructs of a language affect how people think and conceptualize. Or, I guess, also that language comes from how a society thinks and conceptualizes.) Linguists seem to kind of hate it, but it sure seems to play out as true in the real world.

    15. Re:Context-switching matters by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I was wondering if somebody was going to mention this.

      The fact is, when you walk into a new room you are seriously distracted. You are taking in the new sights, furniture arrangements, etc... As you say, it requires quite a bit of processing. I am not in the least surprised that they would temporarily "forget" something else.

      I bet the would get exactly the same results if they sneakily popped a balloon or dropped a metal pan right behind the subject, creating a loud noise, and tested them immediately afterward.

      I'd file this "research" under "Duh, what did you expect?"

    16. Re:Context-switching matters by subreality · · Score: 2

      What I find fascinating is that all these processes happen and we don't even know it.

      You could ask the guy why he hesitated in his answers and it wouldn't be "Well, my cache got wiped when my environment-mapper interrupt fired". You could probe farther, "What were you thinking about when you first walked through the door?" and you still wouldn't get anything. These processes never enter our conscious mind unless the process finds something (perhaps a bear-shaped shadow in the corner) which needs immediate attention.

      Thus, psychology research requires very creative experiments and careful statistical analysis to pull the signal out of the noise. You have to create observable side effects without creating false signals. I often learn more from reading about how a good experiment was designed than I do from the results.

    17. Re:Context-switching matters by Boronx · · Score: 1

      Even then, you're probably already taking bear-attack-preventative action before you even consciously notice the bear.

    18. Re:Context-switching matters by jyx · · Score: 1

      Well, that's my interpretation. Sorry it's not a car analogy or a pizza analogy.

      I thought Libraries Of Congress was the imperial analogical measurement of information.

      I want to know exactly how many L.O.C. can your brain retain in short term memory when moving between rooms?

      What if the rooms you are moving between are within the Library of Congress itself?

    19. Re:Context-switching matters by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This makes me wonder if standing near the doorway where you can see both rooms would alter the results. If you move into a subset of the visible space, do you have to think all over again or do you move into a subset in your brain?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Context-switching matters by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      Linguists hate it because in its strongest sense it is trivially false (people can obviously think about things they don't have preexisting symbols for), and in it's weakest sense it is trivially true (connotations of words and grammatical assumptions do influence how people think about things). In other words, it's not a particularly useful or explanatory concept. It's either a statement of the obvious, or just wrong, depending on how strongly you state the case.

    21. Re:Context-switching matters by DZign · · Score: 1

      If you're interested in this, read the book Buyology by Martin Lindstrom. HE did tests how effective marketing/commercials/.. are for decision making using brain scans/eeg/...
      Seems most decisions are made instant by our unconscious, and only (milliseconds) later our conscious mind tries to 'explain' why we made a specific decision.

    22. Re:Context-switching matters by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      So wait, if you're running away from a predator and enter a cave, you suddenly forget why you got there and why you were in such a hurry? Somehow I see this as not really helpful to survival.

            -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    23. Re:Context-switching matters by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      Of course not, you're running for your life, all else doesn't matter so you wont lose that information.

      What you will lose, is which way you ran. Did you duck left, or right? Did I jump over that hole or dive into it? How the heck do I get back to where I was?

      Once you're safe, you'll suddenly find yourself lost. Oddly enough, this doesn't make you safe, but you're still alive, so atleast you have a chance. Just watch out for the grue.

  8. Meetings by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is why I hate going to meetings and feeling stupid. Come to my cube and I'll know the answers.

    1. Re:Meetings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That may actually be a sign of general anxiety than recall issues.

    2. Re:Meetings by MagicM · · Score: 1

      What does it mean when the answers come to you in the bathroom instead of at your desk?

    3. Re:Meetings by marnues · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of truth to that. Conference rooms mean boredom to me so my brain loads the boredom context. If I need to say anything meaningful I need to bring notes. My cube (now just desk) is a place where I work and my brain loads my work context. It doesn't amaze me at all that the more we learn about the brain and effective software design, the more similar the 2 become.

    4. Re:Meetings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think the corollary to this explains why managers insist on separate offices with walls and doors.

    5. Re:Meetings by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      It means you need more fiber....

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  9. I would think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would think this is due to the brain first checking the next room. It being a new place, we probably want to be well aware of the room before being too far in. Thus our attention is taken away from whatever we are thinking about a minute ago.

    1. Re:I would think by Rary · · Score: 2

      What's particularly interesting is that it's not just the act of moving into a new (and unknown) room, but the act of moving into a different room than the one you were just in, even if that other room is one with which you're already familiar. In other words, it's not the newness, but the shift.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  10. What did I come in here for... by SeNtM · · Score: 2

    I this why I forget what I needed whenever I walk into the next room?

    --
    "There ought to be limits to freedom." -George W. Bush
    1. Re:What did I come in here for... by marnues · · Score: 2

      My understanding is yes. In part, the other room may have a load of other things forgotten that the brain now views as a priority, because your immediate surroundings take precedent to a thought connected to now remote surroundings (the other room).

    2. Re:What did I come in here for... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I have this problem even when I walk to different rooms with no actual doors in between.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  11. A maze of twisty passages, all alike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This must be why I kept forgetting whether or not I had a lamp in my inventory.

  12. Doorway or .. by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Changing mental focus causes forgetting. Can you multi-thread?

    Walking across room: : Command: Get blue pencil trudge trudge trudge See: pencils Take: blue one. w00t!

    Walking across room, through door: : Command: Get green string trudge trudge trudge See: Door Look for: Knob Act: Turn knob Act: Push door Door does not open. Act: Pull door Door opens trudge trudge trudge Halt. Query: What am I in here for? Pencil? Chair? Left-handed widget extractor? Rope? Hook? Trebuchet? Keys? Potrzebie? Fail!

    I frequently find distraction breaks my thread of thought and I lose the frayed thread end. Rather like going up stairs - "Uh. What did I come up here for?" Go downstairs - "Uh. What did I come down here for?" I've been doing this ever since I spent 20 minutes searching my parents house for the screwdriver I was holding in my hand all the time - I was about 12 years old at the time - I'm an expert in this field!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Doorway or .. by Spectre · · Score: 2

      ... Trebuchet!

      (all other thoughts in head now gone)

      --
      "Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
    2. Re:Doorway or .. by Sechr+Nibw · · Score: 1

      Well, in your example, you clearly had to travel twice as far in the second example. It took 3 trudges in the first example. The second example was 3 trudges, open a door, then 3 trudges!

    3. Re:Doorway or .. by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Well, in your example, you clearly had to travel twice as far in the second example. It took 3 trudges in the first example. The second example was 3 trudges, open a door, then 3 trudges!

      Both rooms were of equal size. I'll have you know this is a controlled experiment. Thankyewverramuch.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  13. Survival mechanism by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As the title said, walking through doorways caused forgetting

    I could see how that would be a survival instinct. When you cross a barrier into another space, job one for your brain is taking stock of where you are and processing possible threats. It's not that you forget what you have in your hand, your brain has merely busy with another set of priorities.

    When our ancestors moved from the cover of the woods to a grassy meadow, when they entered a cave, or rounded the bend of a river they were effectively going through a door to another space. The surviving human brains would have been attuned to both threats and opportunities, which would be a priority processing task kicked off by crossing the barrier threshold.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Survival mechanism by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

      I agree. A new situation needs causes the brain to clear the memory ready to assess the new input.

    2. Re:Survival mechanism by ackthpt · · Score: 2

      As the title said, walking through doorways caused forgetting

      I could see how that would be a survival instinct. When you cross a barrier into another space, job one for your brain is taking stock of where you are and processing possible threats. It's not that you forget what you have in your hand, your brain has merely busy with another set of priorities.

      When our ancestors moved from the cover of the woods to a grassy meadow, when they entered a cave, or rounded the bend of a river they were effectively going through a door to another space. The surviving human brains would have been attuned to both threats and opportunities, which would be a priority processing task kicked off by crossing the barrier threshold.

      Now we walk into a room and look for RIAA, MPAA, FBI, CIA, CBP, IRS, CHP, Bucket o' Lawyers, Rambus, Apple's IP hounds, Fine Print, Wall Street Bankers, Lobbyists, WBC, FUD, Moderation, Metamoderation, Firehose, &c., there could be a giant space walrus with photon-flippers, but we'd completely miss it and stroll into its clutches.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Survival mechanism by Anachragnome · · Score: 2

      "When our ancestors moved from the cover of the woods to a grassy meadow, when they entered a cave, or rounded the bend of a river they were effectively going through a door to another space. The surviving human brains would have been attuned to both threats and opportunities, which would be a priority processing task kicked off by crossing the barrier threshold."

      Maybe this is why talking/texting on a cell phone while driving is dangerous. The person is essentially straddling a threshold between two spaces--a car surrounded by dangerous situations, and whatever space the person on the other end of the phone occupies--leaving that person with the task of "assessing" two physically separate places (one by proxy) at once.

    4. Re:Survival mechanism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe this is why talking/texting on a cell phone while driving is dangerous. The person is essentially straddling a threshold between two spaces--a car surrounded by dangerous situations, and whatever space the person on the other end of the phone occupies--leaving that person with the task of "assessing" two physically separate places (one by proxy) at once.

      This is exactly correct. My dad tells me of military studies he was privy to back in the 80's that proved exactly this point. So when they first started talking about mobile phones when driving he explained to me about the mental change you need to make to think about the personl at the other end of the line in a different place. He also talked about the details of how it was different to talking to the passenger next to you, because even though you are talking, you are in the same place and hence the mind doesn't have re-adjust, the talking itself is not a big distraction.

    5. Re:Survival mechanism by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      In the meantime, the charging sabre-toothed tiger from which you were running away finds you confused and eats you.

      I wonder how we made it this far...

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    6. Re:Survival mechanism by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      I wonder how we made it this far...

      Because the sabre-toothed tiger had to switch contexts too!

  14. This has happened to me many times... by mark-t · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... And I find that at least half the time, I can mentally retrieve whatever it was I was thinking of by going to the last spot I was in where I am certain I remembered it or was thinking about it, and then physically going through the motions of whatever it was that I was doing there last time, be it sitting down, walking in a particular direction, or what have you.

    It's a very weird phenomenon... like deja-vu in reverse.

    1. Re:This has happened to me many times... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      you are just helping your short term recall.

      I do that simply because I set down something important and have to go figure out where I left it.

      I had one cow worker who would lose their coffee cup in the warehouse once a month. I would simply walk the warehouse searching at hand level, elbow, and shoulder level until i found it. They set it down at a conveient height and walked off without it.

      sometimes I do forget a singular items off a large list of material that I quickly memorized. however by walking back and forth a couple of times I remember them most of the time.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  15. Standard Experimental Procedure by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Funny
    Experimenter: Please walk this way.

    Subject: I think that door just sighed.

    Experimenter: Ghastly, isn't it? All the doors on this experiment have been programmed to have a cheery and sunny disposition. Now, how many objects in your backpack?

    Subject: Uh, really? That's, uh ... I'm sorry, what? Ah, I forget... what?

    Experimenter: *scribbles on clibpoard*

    1. Re:Standard Experimental Procedure by greghodg · · Score: 1

      Thank _you_, marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

  16. Dance Steps by jamvger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is well known that when learning a new dance step, it is much easier to keep the room in the same orientation when rehearsing it. One gets particularly confused trying the step facing another direction before the step begins to be committed to muscle memory. Dancers call it "room memory".

  17. Take advantage of the effect by davide+marney · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After you have some unpleasant experience -- break up with your girlfriend, argument with your boss -- just walk into another room and start doing something else

    --
    "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    1. Re:Take advantage of the effect by treeves · · Score: 1

      Better yet, *while the unpleasant event is still in progress*, get up and walk out and go somewhere else. Works for me every time. At least as far as I can remember, it does.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    2. Re:Take advantage of the effect by jovius · · Score: 1

      The most optimal action would probably be to just stay in your room doors shut to avoid any unpleasant events.

    3. Re:Take advantage of the effect by treeves · · Score: 1

      True enough, but avoiding all unpleasant events has the disadvantage of causing one to miss out on pleasant events as well.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  18. Out of money by eminencja · · Score: 1

    How unfortunate that EU is running out of money and might no longer be able to fund such truly brilliant research.

  19. Dog or cat DNA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We must have some common sequences with dogs or cats.

  20. once again, and for the record... by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    Forgetting is a very important skill -- it's a big huge part of something that we call focus.

    With the exception of completely arbitrary doors, I'd argue that every door our there separates two head-spaces for a damn good reason.

    The experiment that you want to do next is to see if crossing back through the doorway re-strengthens the original memory. I would hope that it not only restrengthens the original memory, but that the original memory winds up being stronger after returning through the door (that's two door passes) than it would have been had the door not been there (that's two non-door passes).

    So when do you set aside your current head-space for a new one?

  21. Gruen Transfer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Malls have known this forever. It's called the Gruen Transfer.

    Next.

    1. Re:Gruen Transfer by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Not exactly the same thing:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  22. Some like this some like that by sugarmotor · · Score: 1

    Some people are better at this and some better at that. I couldn't find numbers mentioned in the scientist article, only that "Memory was worse", not how much worse, in whatever sense, for how many people, for which people, etc.

    --
    http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
  23. Very Interesting by Froggels · · Score: 0

    There is a lot to criticize in life, but this study is not one.

  24. In the first place... by dpbsmith · · Score: 5, Informative

    In the first place, this has been known since the time of the ancient Greeks, in the form of the memorization technique known as the "method of loci." Rhetoricians memorized their speeches by associating each part of the speech with a room in their house, and as they gave the speech would mentally walk through the house. This is in fact the source of our expressions "in the first place," "in the second place," etc.

    In the second place... uh... I forgot what I was going to say.

    1. Re:In the first place... by dominious · · Score: 1

      In the second place... uh... I forgot what I was going to say.

      Check in the kitchen

  25. My cache has room for one entry by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    When I loaded the new room, the old one get LRUed.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  26. Simonides & mememory (greeks)Re:Life Imitates by Fubari · · Score: 2
    Not exclusively an architecture thing. This Simonides guy came up with a systematic way of associating arbitrary facts with spatial memory.

    Excerpt: Legend says that Simonides of Ceos was the inventor of the method of loci where large amounts of data can be remembered in order by placing images that represent the data into mental locations or journeys.

    The story goes there was a building collapse at a dinner party, killing everyone but Simonides (who had stepped out to receive a messenger). Anyway, the bodies were unidentifiably crushed but Simonides was able to identify the victims based on where they had been sitting.
    Interesting in that it uses spatial memory, something humans are pretty good at, to associate arbitrary facts. (This stuff was cutting edge data management until the renaissance.)

  27. OLD machine translation joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Translated into Russian and back: Invisible Vodka.

    Better (and supposedly true): Hydraulic Ram - ? - Water Sheep. Baah!

  28. Good excuse for school by Maxhrk · · Score: 0

    If your teacher said what was your excuse this time for late homework, you say "blame your door right there, it is the cause of my memory loss."

  29. Eh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think another study, done with a different looking room accessible around a corner, and through an open corridor, would produce similar results. Your mind has to process the new location, and I don't believe it matters so much what the transport method is to get there. Perhaps even a trial where they made the person close their eyes and walk in place for a similar amount of time and then ever so slightly changed his surroundings (moved the chair 3 inches, the clock 2 inches, etc) would produce similar results. Glad people are still working on reverse engineering the heuristics our brains use...

  30. The Solution by nickdc · · Score: 2

    No doors. When I run my business I want my employees to be ahead of the game. Everything will be open to everyone all the time. There will be no 4 sided objects or anything that even resemble a doorway in fact. My employees will be the best! On an unrelated note, anyone know of an open field for sale in Kansas?

  31. I'm sure I've read this on /. before by Rhodri+Mawr · · Score: 1

    But that might have been in a different room...

    Anyway, the title "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" reminded me of the early translation engines, which translated it to "Invisible, Idiot".

  32. Grue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there could be a giant space walrus with photon-flippers, but we'd completely miss it and stroll into its clutches.

    The walrus ignored me, so I ignored him, kept on going and was eaten by a grue :(

    I am find myself in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike...

  33. Hank? by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Is that you Hank?

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  34. What if you're blind. by bronney · · Score: 2

    And the door is triple sized so the blind doesn't even know he walked through a door. What if it's a normal size door and he felt that he walked through something but being blind from birth, the door concept must have been real different from us.

    Are they better at remembering things?

    What if they change the experiment to automatic doors, glass vs. wood, etc. It'd be interesting.

  35. Opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reverse seems to also be true. People with better memories can be oblivious to their surroundings (and to other people).

    1. Re:Opposite by Securityemo · · Score: 1

      Could this be because they're "inside their heads", daydreaming? Other posters have already mentioned the old technique for memorizing things by visualizing locations and that obviously works. So if I'm a visual thinker then does that mean I intuitively carry around the context in my imagination? And would experience a "context switch" when having to switch focus to my surroundings whereas other people might be less prone to interruption by outside stimuli but more sensitive to the external context?

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
  36. Wrong title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This just in: Going to the bathroom during an exam may make you forget all of your test answers!

    Parents now lobbying for open-air bathrooms to ensure fair test-taking.

  37. Get Smart by muirnin · · Score: 1

    Of course! This explains Maxwell Smart's apparent cognitive issues!

  38. Common PROGRAMMING Knowledge by syousef · · Score: 1

    This is why memory heuristics work by combining location with data

    Assembly programmers call it context switching.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_switch

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  39. Implications for user interface design by Bozovision · · Score: 2

    If this research is validated, then there may be implications for UI design...

    Gnome 3, for example, works using an application space focus, rather than a window focus. In one way that's quite appealing - it gives you full focus on the task at hand without the distraction of the 12 other programs you are running at the same time. The problem that lots of people have reported/commented on is that it makes it very difficult to be task focused when a task involves more than one program. Part of this may be to do with the doorway context switch impeding short term memory retention on the task at hand.

    I've used Gnome 3 as an example, but it's far from alone; Metro & Apple full-screen apps spring to mind, though there's a mitigation with Apple full-screen in that it's not forced upon you.

    I wonder if there's a way to enjoy the focus of application-centricity without the disadvantages? For instance, I can imagine keeping a map of the other applications visible, or a representation of the overall desktop/workspace, as you move th'rough the doorway between applications, and/or as you work in an application space. (Slashdot, you may want to vote this up so that it isn't deleted when this item is archived, so that there's some evidence of prior art when large megacorp tries to patent this UI idea.)

    Something like that might be enough to jog short term memory and stop the context loss.

    Or of course, we could decide that window centric works best, but work on ways to easily group windows into tasks.

    Workspaces/Desktops are one way to accomplish this. The problem that I find with workspaces is that they are a clumsy way to manage tasks when I have an application that spans different tasks. But on the other hand, actively managing windows by marking and grouping them introduces unwelcome management overhead.

    I would welcome a system whereby windows and applications were grouped together, either automatically or on the cue of the user, by virtue of the fact that they had been used together. (Again - oh no megacorp! - more prior art! ) For instance, one embodiment of this might be to group windows or applications based on the transfer of info between them. Cut and paste for example shows a transfer of info, and could be used as an indicator of affinity.

  40. DARPA Research Project by lazarus · · Score: 1

    The story goes that at the height of the cold war DARPA was working on some machine language translation software. English to Russian and Russian to English. When the felt that they had finally got it right they set the system up to take a phrase in English, translate it to Russian, and then translate that back to English to see how closely the phrases matched.

    The first researcher stepped up to the console and typed in: "Out of sight, out of mind."
    The computer returned: "An invisible lunatic."

    Sorry, seemed like the right time to tell that one...

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
  41. LSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is one of the effects that one can experience quite strong on LSD. Entering a new room and realising what's in there and what's happening in the room can take quite a while.

  42. Not just "walking through a door"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it possible that walking through the door and being faced with a quiz caused them to forget - and not just walking through the door alone?

    1. Re:Not just "walking through a door"? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Possibly, they should run an experiment where some people are asked a really simple and well-introduced question by someone who walks up to them in the first room ("Hi, I'm Jim, and I'm just going to ask you a simple question, what color is grass?"), and then others are asked the question immediately by the person who is standing behind the door to the second room ("Opening door...WHOA there's somebody right here!" - "What color is grass?"). If the reaction times are much longer for the second group then it might have something to do with how the question is presented.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  43. What if the subject walked back into the room? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet that entering a given room helps reload memories pertaining to that room. Especially if that room has a distinctive smell.

  44. shoppers amnesia... by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
    and this is no doubt the reason behind all the annoying twits and senior citizens who take two friggin' steps into the grocery store and stop, look around to remind themselves where they are, what they wanted and where to find it. Damn few people seem to think of that when going from parking lot of door.

    I find getting run over by my shopping cart seems to wake them up....

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj