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Meet the Strange Bedfellows Who Could Stop SOPA

jfruhlinger writes "In a political environment that's become very strongly defined by partisan lines, the SOPA debate has offered an unexpected ray of hope: the two main Congressional opponents of the bill are Ron Wyden, an Oregon Senator deemed a 'hardcore liberal' and Darrell Issa, a California Representative who is one of the Obama Administration's fiercest critics. (There are both Ds and Rs in favor of the bill, too.)" (Read more below.) In the technical rather than political world, opposition seems easier to find: Trailrunner7 writes "A group of engineers, networking specialists, security experts and other specialists deeply involved with the Internet's development and growth have sent a letter to lawmakers criticizing the highly controversial SOPA and PIPA bills and imploring them not to pass the legislation, which they say would stifle innovation and 'threaten engineers who build Internet systems or offer services that are not readily and automatically compliant with censorship actions by the U.S. government.' The letter is signed by a long list of Internet pioneers and other respected figures, including Steve Bellovin, Paul Vixie, Vint Cerf, Jon Callas, Tony Li, Robert W. Taylor, Esther Dyson and Fred Baker, among many others. Both SOPA and PIPA have been criticized heavily by technologists, privacy advocates and security experts who say that not only would the proposed bills make it difficult for companies to create innovative new technologies, but they also would likely not even accomplish the goals their authors' had in mind, namely preventing copyright infringement and content piracy."

And (hat tip to Rob Malda), here's the letter itself (PDF).

231 comments

  1. All this and we still don't have a budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The only thing Congress can agree on is that something must be done to "stop those thieves!"

    Meanwhile people on every side lie to them. Ruthlessly so.

    1. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      Why would we need a budget? We didn't have one for 2011. It's not like the budget is the only thing they are actually required to do...

    2. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or 2010.

    3. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only thing Congress can agree on is that something must be done to "stop those thieves!"

      Meanwhile people on every side lie to them. Ruthlessly so.

      You mean the foxes guarding the henhouse could actually be entrusted to propose actually guarding the henhouse?

      Trusting Congress to do the right thing is like expecting a snake to get up and walk in a straight line -- they may get about where you'd like them to be, but only with a lot of twisting, turning, amending and consulting with their friendly neighborhood lobbyists to leave in loopholes where more evil legislation could easily be inserted later, perhaps wadded up in a 662 billion dollar defense bill.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      It adds transparency to see what money is being spent where.

      Another reason is to avoid these budget battles that result due to not having a budget.

    5. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      There is one saving grace here, they may take away our internet freedom in their legislature, but they are far too stupid to enforce it, I'd still say there is a bigger pool of unorganized talent in the states than in a place like china. Still this can get scary, the talent might just *shock* go to another country. Seems like since Bush, a lot of people are starting to part ways with this country in favor of something like Europe (only some countries) and Australia. If it ever becomes "most people", the US is probably dead in the water as a world power.

    6. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by WhiplashII · · Score: 2

      In addition to this, the real reason we do not have a budget is that the last budget past was an emergency budget. That gave our fearless leaders an opportunity to cram the bill full of special cashouts for their friends. Unfortunately, under current conditions they would never get those passed. So instead, they pass continuing resolutions - so that the same friends continue to get rich, but no one can single out a bad line item...

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    7. Re:All this and we still don't have a budget by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Almost all the money is transparent.

      What, you need someone to hold your hand?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  2. They're NOT opposed to SOPA by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This summary makes it sound like they're heroes fighting for our freedom or something. In actuality, they're just advocated for their own alternative Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade Act (OPEN). And the only difference between their bill and SOPA is that SOPA will put enforcement in the hands of the Justice Department and OPEN will put it in the hands of the United States International Trade Commission, which in practice will make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to most sites being busted.

    The only reason Darrel Issa and Ron Wyden are supporting it is because it provides more protection for the Googles, Facebooks, etc. and they're both from states where those companies are big players.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sometimes advocating a less offensive alternative is the only viable means of effectively opposing something vile.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    2. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes proposing something super-vile and "allowing" it to be watered down to something that is merely vile ...... for now ..... is good (as in evil) politics.

    4. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by hlavac · · Score: 0

      Or a defenestration.

    5. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, no, a hundred thousand times NO. That's known as "changing the window," and it's a well known problem with politics.

      Example: For the kids, we're now going to conduct random warrantless household searches across the nation.

      With your approach, we should approve of a less offensive alternative, like, say, "but this will only happen twice a year, instead of once a month." You feel like you "won" something when in reality, by any measure, you have objectively lost. This is basically how the Constitution and our "inalienable rights" have been eviscerated over the last century or so.

      This approach is extremely common in politics, and less offensive alternatives are absolutely NOT the way to address it! Wholehearted refusal of THE ENTIRE PREMISE is required, potentially along with civil disobedience if either version does get enacted.

      CAPTCHA: frauds. How appropriate.

    6. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Funny

      This summary makes it sound like they're heroes fighting for our freedom or something. In actuality, they're just advocated for their own alternative Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade Act (OPEN). And the only difference between their bill and SOPA is that SOPA will put enforcement in the hands of the Justice Department and OPEN will put it in the hands of the United States International Trade Commission, which in practice will make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to most sites being busted.

      The only reason Darrel Issa and Ron Wyden are supporting it is because it provides more protection for the Googles, Facebooks, etc. and they're both from states where those companies are big players.

      They should rebadge it Digital Online Protection Enforcement.

      It would be most fitting.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    7. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by turkeyfish · · Score: 2

      So powerful are the media interests. I say boycott them all and make them feel the loss of profits, so substantially that they will abandon the idea.

      Otherwise in our capitalistic system, just get used to the fact that the entire internet will be in private hands and those foolish enough to believe in social or economic justice can simply go extinct.

      The choice is yours as only you can do anything about it.

      Its ironic that the old, the sick, the poor, the young are not entitled to any government benefits, but wealthy media corporations are entitled to your money and your political and economic voice as a corporate birthright. Soon the only people left will be corporations.

    8. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Shatrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The mindset of drawing battle lines in terms of 'right' and 'left' is what has allowed politicians to move steadily into lobbyist pockets (like hermit crabs) for the past 30 years... I can't think of a better illustration than the SOPA, ACTA, DMCA et cetera garbage that has been getting pushed through lately with bipartisan support and almost zero outcry or media coverage. Everyone is too busy fighting about stem cells and carbon credits and which politician is banging their stenographer.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    9. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I take it you vote for cthulhu? By your logic, why vote for the lesser evil. If you are going to vote for evil lets just go all out!

    10. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by jmac_the_man · · Score: 4, Informative
      This isn't actually true. OPEN makes it harder to transfer money to sites that have been ruled "infringing" by a court. It doesn't include capabilities for takedowns, blocks from searches, etc. SOPA, on the other hand, could possibly require deep packet inspection to keep people off infringing sites.

      Basically, OPEN only goes after commercial infringement, and only does so in a commercial way. I'm OK with that.

    11. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      "[...] and carbon credits and which politician is banging their stenographer."

      They're called 'office assistants' now, get it right.

      ;-p

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    12. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Culture20 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil.

      The Right? Damn, man. I've been alive and aware those 30 years and you're so wrong. It's been moving steadily toward totalitarianism, which is neither Right (limited government) nor Left (social welfare). Left and Right in America aren't opposites of one another, they just happen to use the same resources (like a family does). Social welfare *in moderation* is what makes a great country. They're two players on the same team. If you bring in totalitarianism, that's unlimited government (anti-right), and temporarily, the Left is unrestrained, and everyone thinks it's great to get all this free stuff (because people will always be greedy)... until the totalitarian decides that enough bread and circuses have been given out, and then it's time for Social Inequity, Totalitarian's partner in the league of super-villainy, to enter into the picture and slay the Left (because people will always be greedy). Limited Government died a while back, and Social Inequity is rising. The Left needs to help the Tea Party bring back Limited Government before society has no one that fares well, save nobility.

    13. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by TheLuggage2008 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Exactly this.

      I've used this very tactic at home; I started out telling my wife that our entire AV setup is outdated, the larger living room in our new home necessitated a 70" TV and surround sound to fill the room, as well as my aging computer no longer being able to handle the demands of a home theater PC server...

      What I actually really wanted: The green-light on building a new computer. We negotiated down from the TV, surround sound and new computer to just the new computer. My wife feels that that she managed to put the breaks on a lot of needless spending and I got exactly what I wanted short-term. In truth, I eventually want all three, but I have the patience to wait a while before complaining loudly that I can never hear the TV properly because of the crappy speakers, and the game will be afoot again. I wonder how long after the passage of SOPA or OPEN before they start complaining loudly that they can't fully protect us without expanding their reach to U.S. sites as well...

    14. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      You've lost the battle when play the low-middle-high game of negotiations for you have now accepted an inherently evil premise.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    15. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Shatrat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, I didn't want to single anyone out by saying "Intern" or "Videographer" or "Babysitter" or "Sheep".

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    16. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil.

      It's going to be a lot of work to come up with an alternative. As a US voter, I voted in the 2008 election for a mainstream candidate, McCain precisely because he was the lesser of two evils (a view unfortunately confirmed by subsequent history).

      Personally, I'd rather third parties like the Libertarians or Greens get enough influence to matter at the national level, but I'm aware that the system is set up to favor the two dominant parties and any change, currently, would require both parties to cooperate (which IMHO isn't going to happen under current conditions).

      So in other words, the choice has been "framed". I hope to see that changed in my lifetime, but at the same time, I have to deal with the current reality. I'm not going to cast a vote for a non-Republican unless the Republican candidate is similarly harmful (in that case, an awful Democrat president at odds with Congress is a better alternative). Moving steadily to the right is currently the lesser of two evils. It may be otherwise by the time 2014 comes around in which case, I can cast my vote elsewhere.

    17. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

      In other words secretaries, which in certain circles is a synonym for certain kind of service providers X)

    18. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we are to assume that by the 'right' you mean conservative (as most people in the US interpret the term 'right' in politics), then you are wrong. The US has not become a more conservative nation, especially in the last 30 years.

      You are correct about the lesser evil still being evil. In the case of SOPA, the intent is questionably good but the outcome is not. It is better to do nothing than to enact SOPA or any current variant.

    19. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bash republicans, get +5.

      Bash democrats, get -1.

    20. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by tbannist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, this is enabled by the consolidation of media control into the hands of 5 or 6 corporations. In effect, a few dozen people get to decide what is news in the United States, based on the orders of a half-dozen CEOs. And where the interests of the corporations coincide with each other there will be casual collusion to promote or bury stories, as the case may be. If the CEOs who run the corporations that own the majority of the news media don't want anyone talking about SOPA, (for example because they think it will boost the revenues of their entertainment divisions) then they are perfectly able to make it known that it is in every employee's best interests to make sure it is not covered in any depth, if it absolutely has to be covered at all.

      Of course, the flip side is the issue just isn't nearly as interesting to most people as celebrity gossip, so they may not even have to do that. After all, bread and circuses is a very old formula.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    21. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      I think I'd prefer Jefferson's method of refreshing the tree of liberty to settling for the lesser evil.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    22. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by element-o.p. · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil.

      Well...I suppose it is better than moving steadily to the WRONG for the past 30 years :D

      I kid, I kid! In all seriousness, I really wish our political system was a little less one-dimensional. We look at everything in terms of "left" and "right", never even considering that there might, perhaps, be an "up", a "down", a "forward" and a "backward" as well. For all I can tell, the two major political parties are just two sides of the same coin; they are more interested in wresting power from the other party than in actually fixing any of the problems this nation faces. That's the real problem, IMHO.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    23. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil."

      What 30 years are you looking at? We have been PROGRESSIVELY heading towards the left. This bloated size of government is all the proof needed.. Did you forget that the farther (what you call) 'right' you go, the less government you have? The furthest 'right' is Anarchy.

    24. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      ... so instead, you singled out the poor stegographer? I think "assistant" is far more general...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    25. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Limited Government died a while back, and Social Inequity is rising. The Left needs to help the Tea Party bring back Limited Government before society has no one that fares well, save nobility.

      You're joking right? The biggest threat to this country is unrestricted growth of the upper class on the backs of the lower classes. The government does have a very important place in the lives of the populace, and one of the primary roles is to protect it citizenry from abuses just like SOPA. Limiting government too much just give the businesses more power. The government ostensibly has the serve the populace. The corporation only has to serve its shareholders and they don't have to give a good god damn about your rights as an individual unless you have a vested interest in the company. Cutting social welfare just to give economic welfare to corporations and the wealthy are exactly the agenda that the tea party, knowingly or unknowingly are pushing with their idiotic "no taxes on job creators" nonsense. Seemingly, the whole agenda of the tea party is social inequity through government limitation and unrestricted economic incentives for the wealthy.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    26. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a US voter, I voted in the 2008 election for a mainstream candidate, McCain precisely because he was the lesser of two evils (a view unfortunately confirmed by subsequent history).

      I voted for McCain too for the same reason. I can't share your conclusion, though: The evilness measures of either scenario are probably well within error bars.

    27. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As a US voter, I voted in the 2008 election for a mainstream candidate, McCain precisely because he was the lesser of two evils (a view unfortunately confirmed by subsequent history).?

      And if we were in a war with Iran right now, you would be to blame.

      Personally, I'd rather third parties like the Libertarians or Greens get enough influence to matter at the national level

      Then vote for them.

      So in other words, the choice has been "framed".

      Agreed. Break the frame.

      I'm not going to cast a vote for a non-Republican unless the Republican candidate is similarly harmful

      Democrat and Republican policies are both so incredibly harmful that the differences are really insignificant. The only issue that matters is breaking the hegemony. Period.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    28. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      I voted for McCain too for the same reason. I can't share your conclusion, though: The evilness measures of either scenario are probably well within error bars.

      Then you should have voted for a third party candidate. I voted for McCain (and Palin) because he had both greater integrity than Obama (yes, I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm aware of many of McCain's foibles), took some bold risks which I approved of, and because Obama looked to be a remarkably serious problem should he get electe.

    29. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Desler · · Score: 1

      Except that John McCain is a co-sponsor of PIPA?

    30. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by number6x · · Score: 3, Informative

      Very good post, thanks. I think you will find it even easier if you stop thinking about right and left as being aligned with limited government and social welfare. The political right is not about limited government. Political 'right' and 'left' have nothing to do with where the solutions to problems come from. There are plenty of right wingers that believe in increased government and in government vs private sector solutions.

      Think about how complacent we are that large corporate special interest groups get government help on the taxpayer's dime. Guitar maker Ernie Ball was raided by the BSA using local law enforcement to conduct the raid. Laws have been passed forcing businesses accused by the BSA to pay fines up-front, guilt can be decided later. People just seem to expect that government should drop everything and do what corporations want, no expenses spared. This is right wing, but certainly not conservative and limited government. copyright and license infringement that Ernie Ball was accused of is a civil not criminal matter. Law enforcement should have no role beyond serving a warrant, and law enforcement should only be called upon if private efforts to serve the warrant fail.

      In the late 19th until the mid 20th century in America, the right wing tended to believe in limited government and be more conservative, and the left wing has been more socialist asking for government based solutions to problems like poverty, homelessness and loss of jobs. After World War II the trend for corporate America to feed at, and become dependent on, the government and the taxpayer has been constantly increasing. The people who back this kind of socialist welfare for the corporations has also increased.

      There are plenty of examples of both right wing socialism and right wing totalinarianism throughout history. You can have someone with right wing ideals, like say a preference for management vs labor. Some of these right wingers will be conservative and think that we need less governement and more free market, knowing full well that this could result in the failure of many businesses who take too many risks(no safety nets). Others among these right wingers will be more socialist, like most of the Republicans in the USA. These socialist right wingers expect huge government backing of corporations and work to implement their beliefs in redistributing the taxes from middle class Americans to businesses and corporations.

      Right and left does not translate to conservative and liberal. They are orthogonal attributes. Your conclusion that the liberals need the Tea Party to get government limited down to size again is spot on. Its not about right vs left, its about socialist solutions vs private sector solutions. Both right and left need to create private sector solutions to issues they are concerned about. Government is not always the solution.

    31. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      [government] protect[s] it citizenry from abuses just like SOPA

      SOPA doesn't have teeth without the might of the government. Totalitarianism (we have to pass the bill before you can read it) is the mechanism through which the social inequity is being forged. With a limited government (note I didn't say *lack of government*), the nobility has a much shorter sword to threaten the populace with.

    32. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not opposed to shutting down all my websites and closing my business and hunkering down until this government of treason is cleansed.
      Fuck job hiring, fuck banks and investing, fuck politicians and voting, and finally fuck police (if they have this unconstitutional directive)

    33. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Sometimes advocating a less offensive alternative is the only viable means of effectively opposing something vile.

      And sometimes advocating a more offensive alternative is the only viable means of getting your less offensive bill to be accepted by the majority, vileness and all.

      Just saying.

    34. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      To clarify, limited government WITH TEETH is much more effective than a totalitarian government.

      A limited government, in charge of socialist mandates (mandates to help the people as a whole) who can make good on punishments for those who abuse the system, will enable a balanced society without preventing freedom of action by individuals within that society.

      Think of such a government as protecting your house with a guard dog. Think of the alternate as protecting your house with an encompassing swamp, complete with alligators.

      The dog is fed and groomed by you, has a specific job to do, and does it well. The swamp is only in it to survive and grow... possibly at your expense, and definitely at the expense of most people attempting to visit your house. Only those who can navigate the changing ways of the swamp will survive the visit.

    35. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Did you forget that the farther (what you call) 'right' you go, the less government you have?

      So ultra right wing governments, like say, Saudi Arabia are the freest in the world?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    36. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Only if you're experiencing duress, which in all honesty guarantees a disaster further down the road.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    37. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      I should add... if the dog fails to perform properly, you can have it put down and train another... can't do that to a swamp without bringing in large machinery to dredge, drain, and burn. And then you've got a bill for the job, a bunch of machinery, and some very hungry alligators with nowhere to go on your hands.

    38. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't think of a better illustration than the SOPA, ACTA, DMCA et cetera garbage that has been getting pushed through lately with bipartisan support and almost zero outcry or media coverage.

      I can. The War on Drugs. This policy has been a complete and utter failure for at least 40 years. No independent group of experts has ever recommended this policy. There is not, nor has there ever been an honest, well meaning argument in favor of the War on Drugs. 40 years later we can see the carnage this policy has wraught, and we cannot even get our politicians to discuss the possibility of change.

      If you want to see how totalitarian America really is, look no further than the War on Drugs.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    39. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Passing laws that interfered with business is exactly how the last revolution got started. Businessmen were turned into revolutionaries. A fat and happy populace never rebels. Anything that either interferes with business or the fat happiness of the masses has the potential to undo everything.

      Decadent aristocrats usually don't stop to consider that though or are just too arrogant to think it can ever happen.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    40. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seemingly, the whole agenda of the tea party is social inequity through government limitation and unrestricted economic incentives for the wealthy.

      No, the agenda of the Tea Party is for a government that will not play a popularity contest about who "deserves" what.

      To liberals, however, it is not about that blind justice at all, it is all about who is deserving and who has to sacrifice. Lets compare:

      * Person/group A has a much better quality of life ($600,000 income), than person/group B ($60)
      1. Tea Party response: meh
      2. Liberal response: zomg A is evil! We must ensure that most of that money goes from A to B to be fair!!!!!!!!!

      * Person/group A has a much better quality of life (social acceptance) than person/group B (being bullied by A to the point of suicide, no one seems to care about stopping it)
      1. Tea Party response: meh
      2. Liberal response: meh, must be B's fault[1]

      One of them is consistent. The other is hypocritical. Can you guess which one?

      [1] unless B is in a strictly defined group, which isn't at all related to the challenges B faces

    41. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      The biggest threat to this country is unrestricted growth of the upper class on the backs of the lower classes. The government does have a very important place in the lives of the populace, and one of the primary roles is to protect it citizenry from abuses just like SOPA.

      In my view, the growth of the upper class is a consequence of the growth of government - crony capitalism or corporate welfare, if you will. So the solution is less government, not more.

      Seemingly, the whole agenda of the tea party is social inequity through government limitation and unrestricted economic incentives for the wealthy.

      The government is the one giving out the incentives for the wealthy. Why do you want more of that? Please don't tell me that any benefits for the poor will not be captured eventually by the rich.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    42. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by makomk · · Score: 2

      This isn't actually true. OPEN makes it harder to transfer money to sites that have been ruled "infringing" by a court. It doesn't include capabilities for takedowns, blocks from searches, etc. SOPA, on the other hand, could possibly require deep packet inspection to keep people off infringing sites.
      Basically, OPEN only goes after commercial infringement, and only does so in a commercial way. I'm OK with that.

      That doesn't follow. For example, YouTube is obviously a commercial website, but the people sharing their home videos on it aren't doing anything commercial. In fact, pretty much any non-commercial sharing of content has a commercial step in it somewhere that can be attacked - someone's got to pay for the hosting, the infrastructure required to transfer the data, etc.

    43. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to see how totalitarian America really is, look no further than the War on Drugs.

      This is the tyranny of the majority. Only a tiny fringe supports legalization.

    44. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by lightknight · · Score: 2

      McCain lost any possibility with me when he flew back to Washington, in the middle of his campaign, to work on a bailout bill. Up until that moment, I allowed for the possibility, as with Obama, and all the other candidates, of convincing me of their worthiness to run this country.

      The two major party candidates, both promising bailouts that the populace neither wanted, nor could afford, proved to be so far out of touch with reality, that come election night, no further consideration of their virtues could be found. In a bitter sense, McCain, the self-proclaimed maverick of his own party, having supposedly fought for years to change the Republicans, failed his singular test when the moment allowed for itself.

      As with any group of people who offer me only bad choices, and expect me to choose from among them, I ultimately end up leaving that group. I am not speaking of the Republicans here, but of this society as a whole. If the legislation coming out of DC these days does not make you stand aghast at its implications, if the fact that the judicial branch of our society is too busy overriding our most cherished laws with newer ones of a worse design, if an executive branch which currently serves the purpose of a third wheel on a bicycle does not concern you, or that the various law-enforcement / intelligent agencies need to be reminded that they serve the public, not the other way around, you are already lost. I have no interest in remaining as a part or as it may be, an accomplice, to a society which is hell-bent on destroying itself. If everyone wishes to remain as lemmings, rushing off the cliff into oblivion, so be it; I will not be joining you on that journey.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    45. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      What do you think is the cause of the "unrestricted growth of the upper class on the backs of the lower classes"?

    46. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, there is absolutely no truth to your statement whatsoever.

    47. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to cast a vote for a non-Republican unless the Republican candidate is similarly harmful

      I find it cute that you somehow consider the Republican candidates "non-harmful"

    48. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no. The right wants to increase the size of government just as much as the left. They just differ on where to do it.

      Not to mention, the anarchists have typically been associated with the left.

    49. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much as I would love for liberals to be consistent, the fact is they are not. My 30+ years of living through it trumps your dismissal, sorry.

    50. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 2

      This is tyranny of propaganda. Everyone, if well informed would support legalization. The facts in favor of it are simply that strong. The fact that drugs have been prohibited for so many decades is a testament to the power of the American propaganda system and the ability of the entrenched power structure to withstand any sort of reform no matter how beneficial it may be.

      Just government is based on the consent of the people. Consent isn't valid if it's made with bad information.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    51. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You know, it funny you say that, because I just read some article talking about how the US population is growing more liberal...

      Either way, I think your comment is unfair. The problem doesn't belong to one end of the spectrum, the extremes of both right and left can range from catastrophic to evil. That's where the problem really is, we've let our politicians get too polarized At least, this is the problem on an ideological level anyway, I don't think the spectrum plays any part in overall corruption.

      Point being, you think all Republicans are giddy for the likes of Romney and Palin? I, personally, had a wonderful dream where McCain picked Lieberman for his VP slot. Not perfect certainly (I'll never forgive Lieberman for promoting the "vaccines cause autism" myth), but they're both far more moderate than most of their peers. And do you think my Democratic boyfriend was happy to hear the VP his party thought was best was freaking Joe Biden? That guy has had an enormous hand in causing this little copyright-mafia nightmare we're in now. So yeah, how could any good come from the government when it's filled with hardcore nuts?

      Remember that the opposite extreme of the copyright and regulation is also bad. Although all the anti-SOPA articles I've seen generally mock the claim about fake medication being sold online, that's a real danger. Sure, some of it is the companies not wanting people to import cheaper varieties but there is a real danger too. When a drug for hemophiliacs gave a bunch of people HIV and Hepatitis some decades ago, they didn't destroy or decontaminate those batches, they just shipped them to third world countries where no one cared.

    52. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      So...where are you going?

    53. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      With a limited government (note I didn't say *lack of government*), the nobility has a much shorter sword to threaten the populace with.

      By "populace" you must mean "the corporations". Limited government means no environmental regulations... bye bye clean air and water. It means fewer banking regulations... say bye bye to your money. It means fewer safety regs (as in OSHA). Say bye bye to your brother who just died in a preventable industrial accident.

      Taking away government's teeth takes away its ability to protect you from the powerful. This is exactly what the rich want. Sorry, but you've been fooled by the rich and powerful into championing their cause while harming yourself. Foolish, very foolish. But one expects a fool to act foolishly, and a non-1%er in the tea party is a damned fool.

    54. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The wealthy don't need any help from the government to capture more wealth. The simple economic truth is that money makes money more than labor does. As long as that is true, wealth will always migrate towards the rich. The only way to circumvent this process is to legislate against it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    55. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The natural tendency for wealth to trickle upwards.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    56. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She might learn of your tricks if she browsed this site. But everyone knows females don't read slashdot! =)

    57. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      Taking away government's teeth takes away its ability to protect you from the powerful. This is exactly what the rich want. Sorry, but you've been fooled by the rich and powerful

      The rich are rich because they have money or are owed money. The powerful have power because of influence or force of arms. (The Federal) government isn't supposed to have teeth except for external threats. The people are supposed to have the teeth, and the government is supposed to fear them.

      By "populace" you must mean "the corporations".

      I love how you set that straw man up. Knock it down! Burn it! Beat it bloody! Stop putting words in my mouth. I learned to feed myself when I was a toddler.

      Limited government means no environmental regulations... bye bye clean air and water. It means fewer banking regulations... say bye bye to your money. It means fewer safety regs (as in OSHA). Say bye bye to your brother who just died in a preventable industrial accident.

      Limited government means none of those things. Limited government is in-between "sparse or no government" and "unlimited government". For me it means having a government that doesn't rule by fiat and prohibit exercising of rights by the people.

    58. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      I don't know why I'm responding, since you're a hard core Republican (so was my Grandma which is why I know I'm wasting electrons), but

      I voted in the 2008 election for a mainstream candidate, McCain precisely because he was the lesser of two evils (a view unfortunately confirmed by subsequent history).

      Obama's far from the best President we ever had; we needed an FDR but unfortunately there are none these days. But your comment comes on the day THE IRAQ WAR IS OVER.

      After bleeding jobs since Bush was elected (he was the only President in history to leave office with fewer jobs than when he first entered the office), we finally not only have job growth (albeit still weak), the unemployment rate dropped a percentage point, and I think probably will drop two or three more at least by next year's election.

      Have a look at recessions and who's President during them. It used to be "guns or butter", that Republicans brought peace and recession, while Democrats brought war and prosperity. Any more, the Republicans bring us war and recession. Do you really think McCain would have helped the economy despite his being a Republican? Do you believe that if McCain had been elected that the Iraq war would be over? If McCain had won would Bin Laden be dead?

      We still have Gitmo, but give him some creadit for trying to get rid of that unamerican abomination. We still have the PATRIOT act, SOPA and all that is going through, but you actually believe those things would be different under a Republican?

      When is the last time a Republican balanced the budget? Hint: not in my lifetime, and I'll be 60 next year. The only balanced Federal budget I saw was under Clinton.

      Personally, I'd rather third parties like the Libertarians or Greens get enough influence to matter at the national level

      The only way that's going to happen is if you start voting for them. Did you waste your vote by casting it for McCain? Of course not, and I didn't waste mine by voting for the Libertarian (or Green, I voted Libbie because McKinney's batshit crazy) who doesn't want me in jail for smoking pot. To vote for someone who wants you in prison is insane, and I refuse to vote either R or D for that reason (among others).

      So in other words, the choice has been "framed".

      Yes, and you're a fool for believing the Demublican mantra of "a losing vote is a wasted vote". That's an incredibly stupid premise that everyone seems to accept.You're helping frame it.

      I'm not going to cast a vote for a non-Republican unless the Republican candidate is similarly harmful

      I guess that's this election, then, because none of the current Republican candidates is fit for office -- especially the front running hypocritic liar, a man who divorced his wife while she was dying of cancer, who went after Clinton for Clinton's affair while he was having one himself, who decrys lobbyists even though that's what he's done for a living himself. The man is an amoral sleazebag, and the world would be better off if he'd never been born.

      How in the holy hell could anybody vote for that guy? God help America if Gingrich wins. He could possibly be the only person on earth who could be a worse President than Bush.

    59. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      Wealth can only be created by means of labor. The rich cannot create wealth simply by having it. Therefore labor can control the creation of wealth by withholding itself. The (idle) wealthy cannot get richer without labor. However, labor can generate wealth without the rich. This is why the wealthy need government to intervene to perpetuate their advantage, because otherwise labor has the advantage. The opposite will not happen.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    60. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Aryden · · Score: 1

      I vote Cthulhu. You should really accept your overlord and come to the realization that he is inescapable.

    61. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Nordic countries have huge government interference in everything, they are all rich and income is very even. There is a strong tradition of democracy and very little corruption. So equating totalitarianism and large governments is bunk, and that certainly does not imply Social Inequity, since the Nordic countries have much less of that than for example the US does.

    62. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't fool your spouse for long unless you are a master manipulator. The best you can do is keep a secret, and even that is hard. You can only expect to fool people who don't know you too well or who are very stupid. Your spouse observes most of the things you do, potentially for decades - she gets to see what you do when you try to manipulate other people too. She will eventually figure out what you are doing, and she will not be pleased to know that you deceived her. Most likely she already knows your tactic and is looking forward to using it on you too. It's just not worth it - the better tactic when you are going to be dealing with a person for an extended period of time is to leave bullshitting behind, and call that person on any bullshit you see as soon as you figure it out.

    63. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      The letter is one page long. Very very short read. They do not mention OPEN at all. They make a very concise statement that SOPA is bad for freedom and security of internet. That it will have a chilling effect on the next generation of entrepreneurs. Please click the link and read the letter. Your comment is just false.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    64. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

      That should be modded funny, not informative. Hopefully your wife doesn't read Slashdot.

      A friend of mine did this with his wife over parties.
      Year 1: "Can we have a fog machine for our New Years party?"
      Response: No.
      Year 2: "Okay, so the small fog machine will be in the basement with the music and laser lighting, and the big one will be upstairs so it rolls down the steps which would look awesome!"
      Response: You can have just one fog machine.

      And yes, the parties rocked. :-)

    65. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      They're the co-sponsors and chief supporters of OPEN. Of course they're going to bad-mouth SOPA. Are you dense?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    66. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The two parties are part of the same coin. We have a right party, and an ultra right pary.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    67. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Rik+Rohl · · Score: 1

      That's why Palin was on the last presidential ballot.

    68. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What GK Chesterton calls virtue untrammelled by truth,
      And which is therefore untrue, in contrast to truth without virtue which is often pitiless.

    69. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My significant other and I don't have to do this sort of thing. If one of us wants something and can afford it, no problem. Same if we both want something. By afford it, I mean that all bills are paid, and we are not going to be doing without anything we need like food, toilet paper etc...

      Would I like to have a new laptop? Sure. But what I can afford is a used IBM thinkpad. Actually, I like my Thinkpad. And my refurbished Levono Desktop. I seem to be one of the few that does not believe in going into debt to have the latest toys. I am not an early adopter. I tend to wait until the bugs are worked out.

    70. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      the left is just as guilty.. in fact it takes both sides being highly polarized to get us into the situation we're in now.

    71. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It is easier to make more money when you already have a shitload of it. When you open the coffers and cut all restrictions for people to make obscene amounts of money nearly tax free then you are only allowing the upperclasses to get richer while handicapping the middle and lower classes by destroying the infrastructure of the nation as well as any real incentive for people to actually create jobs. They are already filthy stinking rich, why in the hell do they need to create jobs to make more money?

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    72. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      So you're completely full of shit is that why you're posting AC?

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    73. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      That is true, money cannot be created simply by having it, except in the case of interest. However if I have $100K and buy $100K worth of $10 dollar stocks then when I sell them after the stock goes up to $12, I will have a profit of $20K which would then allow me to buy more of the same and turn the same deal. If you really think that the government is enriching the upper class and not the sheer volume of wealth they control, then there is no real point in explaining anything to you, you've already drank the Fox News Kool-aid.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    74. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. The reason for withholding my identity is simple: It is a rather personal topic and in my experience I have to remain "in the closet," so to speak, in order to survive in the real world. That is no reason to close the topic to discussion, however.

      Why react with so much vitriol?

    75. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      And why, pray, does a stock's value increase from $10 to $12?

      If you had $100K, would you stick it under the mattress, or invest in a business? Which option would create the most jobs?

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    76. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Some place where the indigenous people eat politicians. With BBQ sauce.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    77. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      The wealthy don't need any help from the government to capture more wealth.

      Whether they need that help or not, they ask for it and most of us vote for a government that gives it to them. For example: SOPA.

      If we had a limited government, we could get back to debating the relative merits of conservatism and progressivism, and a limited government could implement policies to serve one of those philosophies. Without a constitution to limit the boundaries of government, though, left and right are off the table, and the only goal of government is to advance the "philosophy" of corruption.

      When you vote against constitutional limitations, you're voting for corporate welfare. You can call the corporate welfare "social services" if it makes you feel better, though. Or you can call a censorship and blacklist-maintenance-cost-distribution bill a Stop Online Piracy Act.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    78. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      However if I have $100K and buy $100K worth of $10 dollar stocks then when I sell them after the stock goes up to $12, I will have a profit of $20K which would then allow me to buy more of the same and turn the same deal.

      Your plan to make money sounds good, but of course you know the only reason investments make a profit (you sell at $12 instead of $1.20) is that they have risk. Some investments lose money. I think what your plan needs, to make it reliable and truly serve the interests of the wealthy, is for government to

      1. Enact new laws so that even if the business you invested in doesn't try to do things like appeal to customers, they'll still make money
      2. bail you out if your investments lose money in spite of the strange new laws

      But this is just hypothetical; government wouldn't really do those things in real life.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    79. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by John_Yossarian · · Score: 1

      The Government does not protect people from rich corporations. Politicians trade their votes for favors from large companies. I work at a company that receives large earmarks from senators on a regular basis, so I am always surprised when people get up on a soapbox and preach how the government is the only thing preventing corporations from taking over everything.

      Regulatory agencies serve the interests of those they regulate, not the general public. Did you know that hair stylists are licensed? They have to go to an approved "school" such as Philip Pelusi. And who lobbied for these regulations? Philip Pelusi. Wait a minute....

      The reason people want limited government is because the institution is too easy to corrupt. Keep the Govt weak and people with money can't buy the votes they need. As for the environment, we don't need heavy regulation. All we need is a court system that recognizes property rights. If the plant down the street puts toxic waste into the environment, let everyone within a hundred miles sue the pants off of them. They will stop polluting.

      Don't assume proponents of limited government are ignorant just because you disagree with their position. There are more tools to fix society's problems than just more regulation . . . when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    80. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by John_Yossarian · · Score: 2

      You are absolutely right. Government does exist to prevent the rights of its citizens. This doesn't mean it has to be big. Big Government serves the corporations more than the people because they have more money to buy votes. The more power Government has, the more incentive companies have to influence legislation. This is why SOPA is being pushed and probably will pass. It isn't for the people, it's for the corporations. And this is how it always plays out when you have big Government.

      The courts are capable of preventing corporations from violating our rights (they just need to be sued for something a few times to learn their lesson). The courts aren't so good at preventing big brother from violating our rights. Think warrantless wiretaps, TSA agents strip searching children, and innocent people going through interrogations due to a case of mistaken identity.

      There is no perfect solution. A little bit of Government is good. Too much Government is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

    81. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And most Anonymous Cowards are trolls.

    82. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Galestar · · Score: 0

      Limiting government too much just give the businesses more power.

      I strongly suggest you take a look at all of the major legislation that has been written in the past 30 years. None of it is *for the people*. All of it is *for the corporations*.
      Why do you think the Insurance and Pharmaceutics industries were so thrilled about Obama Care, yet none of the actual citizenry did?
      Wall Street actually liked Dodd Frank.
      DMCA?
      Free Trade? (Hint: it turns people into commodities)
      Immigration policy? (used to protect the availability of cheap labor in Mexico not your job here)
      The drug war?

      Small central governments, larger local governments. Social programs, if so desired, can be enacted (also more efficiently) locally.
      If you restrict the power of central governments, you will restrict the ability of the wealthy to seize control.

      --
      AccountKiller
    83. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by bmo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the Rs and Ds are both evil so vote Republican.

      Yup.

      --
      BMO

    84. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and when the Tea Party crowd or people on the "far right" try to stick to principle and won't agree to increases in taxes until the government demonstrates it can control spending, folks like you denounce them for extreme partisanship and not being willing to compromise. Blah. Moving to the right isn't evil, in my book, unless you mean socially with the weird god fearing nonsense...

    85. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      And if we were in a war with Iran right now, you would be to blame.

      How about Libya? Would I be blamed, if the US were to be at war with them as well?

      Democrat and Republican policies are both so incredibly harmful that the differences are really insignificant.

      If only that were true, then the "lesser of two evils" shtick wouldn't work. I used to believe that as well.

      But given your comment about war with Iran, I imagine you don't really think Obama and McCain were equivalent.

    86. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      What's the topic of this subthread? Lesser of two evils. I'll let you guess again.

    87. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      Obama's far from the best President we ever had; we needed an FDR but unfortunately there are none these days. But your comment comes on the day THE IRAQ WAR IS OVER.

      You might not have noticed, but the Iraq war was over in 2003 and the insurgency that followed was pretty much licked/mollified by the time Obama was inaugurated. I normally don't get this pedantic with people over this. But it's worth noting that Obama had little to do, aside from keeping the US military leadership in place. I imagine McCain would have done the same, with a bit more competent handling of Afghanistan.

      The real test is what happens when the US soldiers go home for real. The pessimists of years ago were saying that Iraq would naturally split into three ethnic pieces. I doubt that's going to happen, at least for the next few years. But it's not unreasonable to expect that the insurgency will rear up again, especially with Iran and Al Qaeda interested in stirring things up to their respective advantages.

      Obama may well be the president who lost Iraq though the slow withdrawal has lessened that concern for me.

      As to Gingrich, I probably won't vote for the guy. He strikes me as even worse than Obama since a) he's got his own ideological axes to grind and they're pretty dangerous as well, b) he's a "give an inch, take a mile" kind of guy (you give him the presidency and both branches of Congress and IMHO he will run with it), and c) he actually is politically competent (he's not going to waste a year trying to get a single bill passed).

    88. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      But your comment comes on the day THE IRAQ WAR IS OVER.

      Yes, right on the schedule agreed to by President Bush and the Iraqi government back in 2008. Amazing, isn't it?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    89. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      Ahh, I've got a friend visiting costa rica as we speak.

    90. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Everyone, if well informed would support legalization.

      Not necessarily. I support legalization of all drugs, but no matter how strong you personally think the 'facts' are, I'm sure there will always be at least a few people who oppose them. Perhaps they simply don't like drugs, and that's a good enough reason for them to support banning them for everyone.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    91. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      That would only happen if he sucked at manipulating others and/or is bad at covering up lies.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    92. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      Why is it easier to make money when you already have a shitload of it?

      I honestly can't tell if you meant to answer this in your second sentence or not...

    93. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The powerful are powerful because they're rich.

      By "populace" you must mean "the corporations". I love how you set that straw man up.

      No, you missed my point entirely, and apparently you did so willfully. The rest of the paragraph explains it.

      For me it means having a government that doesn't rule by fiat and prohibit exercising of rights by the people.

      If by "people" you mean human beings and not the fiction the SCOTUS came up with, then I agree with you. But I want my government to protect my rights against the rich and powerful who have the means to take those rights away. Too bad it's failing so miserably at that.

    94. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Because investing makes money quicker than actually working does. If labor needs to work to eat, and you don't, you have the advantage in negotiations. You own the machines labor needs to use to create value, so you get most of the value from that labor.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    95. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The Government does not protect people from rich corporations.

      Then what are the EPA, FDA, and OSHA for? EPA prevents corporations from turning the US into the polluted hellhole it was before 1970. If you'd lived anywhere near a factory back then, you'd know. The FDA protects me from unscrupulous farmers, food processors*, and drug manufacturers. When I buy a 200 mg tablet of Naproxin, I know it's Naproxin Sodium and not acetaminiphin, and that it's relly a 200 mg dose. My grandfather had a horrible accident in 1959 that left him a vegetable, an accident that wouldn't have happened if there had been an OSHA with its safety regs. I still feel that Purina murdered my grandfather. The courts did my grandmother no good at all.

      Did you know that hair stylists are licensed?

      First, those are state licenses, not Federal licenses. Second, I'm glad they have to be licensed. The license ensures competence, and hair stylists use a lot of very toxic stuff. My stepfather is a retired barber who always had sores on his hands from the chemicals, and is now dependant on an oxygen tank.

      Keep the Govt weak and people with money can't buy the votes they need.

      Keep the government weak and the rich don't have to buy votes.

      As for the environment, we don't need heavy regulation. All we need is a court system that recognizes property rights.

      Then why could you not drive past a Monsanto in 1965 with the windows rolled down? The air literally burned your lungs! If your vaunted property rights and courts could prevent the awful pollution we had, the EPA would have never existed. You're ignoring history and being very irrational and illogical.

      There are more tools to fix society's problems than just more regulation

      Examples?

      * The owner of the filthy, rat and roach infested factory that produced the poison peanut butter and peanut oil actually went to prison.

    96. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Golddess · · Score: 1

      I take it you vote for cthulhu? By your logic [...]

      Actually, GP's post implied no such thing. They could just as easily be voting for someone who is not a Demolican/Repubcrat.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    97. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      So does investing in stock really create jobs? Our current economy would speak to the contrary. In fact, one could argue with all the evidence on their side that pushing more wealth to the wealthy does not create jobs since it disincentivizes job creation. The job market has continued to shrink while the wealth of the top 4% of Americans has done nothing but increase. Cutting taxes on investments and capital gains does not create an incentive to build factories or make jobs, all it does is reward people for gambling on things like shorting stocks and complex derivatives. So for all of your "job creation" rhetoric, there is absolutely no factual evidence.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    98. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      You're still completely full of shit. Being AC doesn't not make it so, it just means you lack the courage to be honest about your convictions because you obviously don't believe them enough to defend them without hiding.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    99. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe them with every fibre of my being. I have legitimate concerns about posting them under my real full name online, and those concerns are no less different than the concerns many other marginalized people had throughout history. But I assure you of the following: My conviction is sincere, and if we were face-to-face I would tell you the same thing[1].

      The only thing I seek to limit is further damage to my life, and posting under my real name on a widely-read forum shared by many current and potential colleagues and other contacts is an unacceptable risk (that the risk comes from bigots only doesn't matter, the damage is still present). Or, to put it in another way, I am not ready to "come out of the closet," as it were.

      Having dispensed with the concern that I am trolling, lets proceed to a constructive discussion about what I wrote, instead of dwelling on who I am.

      [1] Please do not interpret that as any sort of threat or "internet tough guy" thing. It is only to assure you that I am writing sincerely.

    100. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      If you're not ready to "come out of the closet" then you are ashamed of who you are, plain and simple. The argument is already over.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    101. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wanted to refrain from a tedious "pot, kettle, black" exercise to concentrate on a productive discussion. There is none to be had with my counterpart, however, so let me close with these remarks:

      1. "Reverend Dave" dismisses my concerns because my identity is equally obscured.
      2. In one of his earlier posts[1], he argues for the liberal points of social justice. In response to my concerns about problems with social justice as currently practiced (carefully prefaced with the qualification that it isn't an indictment of social justice in general), and later in the same thread of comments writes:

      If you're not ready to "come out of the closet" then you are ashamed of who you are, plain and simple.

      I regularly talk to people about social justice, and know some who are active in the LGBT community too, and lets just say that they would be disgusted by that statement and utterly flabbergasted by the dichotomy.

      tl;dr: I am accusing you of being a hypocrite (or, at the very least, a troll).

      [1] http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2575962&cid=38385220

      P.S. If you aren't a troll, I apologize that I was not able to reach you. I will be candid and reveal that there was a time when I was at your level of maturity. In a way I understand that it is hard to internally reconcile everything, and all too easy to lash out. Maturity comes from within, however, and some /. poster isn't going to make you more mature. My best advice is to listen more and yell less. Identify, internally, exactly what you feel threatened by, and avoid recasting those concerns as something else because you can't or won't grasp it. Cheer up, maturity is an eventual process. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

    102. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      you would be to blame.

      As an aside, what's this thing about "blame"? Blame without consequence is deeply in my "I don't care" territory. It feels a bit like "kids in the back seat" logic.

    103. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      And again, I find it cute that you somehow think the Republican candidates are "not harmful" or the "lesser of two evils".

    104. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      The inclusive or statement is too wishy washy a guess. Which is it, "not harmful" or "lesser of two evils"? Make your guess, keeping in mind the theme here!

    105. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by John_Yossarian · · Score: 1

      McGrew, believe it or not, I do know about the Environmental Protection Agency, the Food and Drug Administration, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. During the time they have existed, the areas under their purview have improved greatly in America. But assuming these agencies are the direct cause of the improvements is a logical fallacy (the fallacy of false cause).

      These regulatory agencies came about because of popular opinion. The people cared about these issues enough to do something. Had regulatory agencies not been created, the courts would have created a solution. Common law systems are slow to react to changes, so it wouldn't have happened overnight. But the end result would have been companies self-regulating and more power resting with the people.

      You claim that the existence of the EPA proves that courts were not sufficient to prevent pollution. I don't believe it. You accuse me of being illogical, but your arguments are based on emotion and construe temporal nearness as proof of causality. Society is constantly evolving. When enough people care about an issue, change will happen with or without heavy-handed Government intervention.

      I'm sorry your grandfather was killed by his employer's negligence. The courts failed your grandmother if they didn't nail the company for having an unsafe workplace. But I don't believe their failure means that courts can't do the job. Look at the ACLU and its use of the court system to champion free speech. A non-profit organization could have done the work of OSHA just as effectively. Someone just needs to have a landmark case to set the precedent that employers are responsible for safety.

      As a final note, I trust rich businessmen more than I trust Government bureaucrats. You think corporations are powerful? Only so long as their customers are satisfied. Henry Royce (co-founded of Rolls-Royce) built cars for the rich and died a man of modest means. Henry Ford built cars for the people and died a wealthy man. Free markets are democracy in action. You get to vote every time you buy something. Businessmen are rewarded or punished by the will of the people every day. What keeps bureaucrats in line? If their boss's boss's boss is appointed by someone who is elected by popular vote, what does that mean to them? I don't like that the people Congress delegated its power of regulation are immune to the consequences of their action. If you distrust businessmen (who are motivated by profits), then why do you trust bureaucrats (who are motivated by power)?

    106. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by riondluz · · Score: 1

      I dont have mod points, but your comment is both concise and accurate; thanks for that.

      Its a tad off-topic, but worth pointing out that in light of recent legislation being passed that makes it possible to 'disappear' U.S. citizens as 'home-grown' terrorists in ways that give Janet Napoliiano wet panties; by a congress whose approval rating is just a tad higher than contracting an STD; one should know that something very ungood is just around the corner.

      I don't know if we hoi-polloi USAians are going to be able to change the tune we've been marching to; lemming-like, but i fear that the outcome will be according to a master-plan that entails moving the 25% or so non-urbanites into our massively-surveiled cities so the mega-corps can despoil our hinterland un-opposed.

      Considering that this is what is currently happening in Africa (massive land purchases by bigAgra in this case) the notion of turning our country into a 3rd world is not too far-fetched.

      We (ALL the world) should fear for our children.
      Sorry for the long sentences.
       

      --
      resist propaganda
    107. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by riondluz · · Score: 1

      Hi:

      "The War on Drugs. This policy has been a complete and utter failure for at least 40 years"
      See, you've got the wrong perspective. For us, sure, but not for the ppl who initiated and perpetuated this. From its origins w/Rockefeller as payback for the upity N****rs thinking they could have a voice and threatening rebellion to today's privatized profiteers of human misery; everything (from their POV) has been (and still is) a smashing success.

      Our leaders in .gov and .com may claim human error, but it really is more by design. There are no conspiracy theories; just greed and the interests of the 'investor class' to realize profits despite the pain and suffering their investments cause.

      Just the power-trips of retired generals and merchants of death to exercise control over their self-entitled perceptions of 'service' and what they feel they are due.

      --
      resist propaganda
    108. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Steavis · · Score: 1

      ...we finally not only have job growth (albeit still weak), the unemployment rate dropped a percentage point, and I think probably will drop two or three more at least by next year's election.

      No, we don't.. The unemployment rate (a percentage statistic) went down because people are leaving the work force (though some jobs were added). They've given up, retired, settled on lower-paying jobs, or whatever, but this notion that it's just a little weak is nonsense. The universe of eligible employees just got smaller. People are still losing their jobs, and none of these windbags are even discussing engineering a way to fix it.

      And while I wouldn't vote for Newt, at least he at one point in his life uttered the phrase ''I would rather rely on engineers than diplomats...". It's a start.

      --
      If Star Trek had the internet: Captain, we've received an IM from the romulans. "Surrender or be destroyed. LOL. o.O"
    109. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the provisions of OPEN is that the website be "primarily" used for infringement. So, if I understand it correctly, to attack YouTube, you would first have to establish that more than 50% of the videos are infringing before you can take any action.

    110. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by repapetilto · · Score: 1

      I see... so what if the investment fails?

    111. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      The inclusive or statement is too wishy washy a guess. Which is it, "not harmful" or "lesser of two evils"? Make your guess, keeping in mind the theme here!

      Either one makes my point.

    112. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by khallow · · Score: 1

      Either one makes my point.

      BZZZT! Sorry, wrong answer. Lesser of two evils doesn't mean "not harmful". In the context of harm, it'd more mean "less harmful".

    113. Re:They're NOT opposed to SOPA by toddestan · · Score: 1

      You might be surprised at how poorly some spouses really know each other.

  3. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Or RTFA.

  4. Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favorite by mbone · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are both Ds and Rs in favor of the bill, too.

    Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favorite Republican.

    He may be a Tea Partier from rural Texas with an "A+" rating from the National Rifle Association," but the TV, movie, and music industries are the top donors to Smith's 2012 campaign committee, according to data complied by the Center for Responsive Politics.

    The Tea Party are marks. His donors are his real constituency.

  5. And this is good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So these two politicians can do what countless citizens petitioning,calling,and writing cannot... What a tragedy.

    1. Re:And this is good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where the hell have you been for the past, oh, ever?

      This is how politics has always been. The fact that 'business as normal' is now readily view-able thanks to the Internet, just means we, the vocal and monetary minority, now have a chance to stir things up a bit.

      What's really amusing to me, is that politicians really haven't figured out how to use the Internet yet.

  6. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Toe,+The · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    No. RTFA yourself. It describes SOPA, but doesn't bother to say what it stands for.

  7. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    is it the Stop Online Privacy Act?

  8. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you'd like such helpful parentheticals as Linux (an operating system derived from Unix), PHP (a programming language), iOS (the operating system run by Apple's mobile devices), etc...?

    Sometimes you have to know your audience. The Slashdot audience can reasonably be expected to know or be able to search for SOPA and PIPA (Protect IP) at this point, considering how much they've been discussed lately.

  9. Gosh we can't have that by turkeyfish · · Score: 2

    People lying to politicians. I'm shocked.

    Obviously, that must cease, politicians should be allowed to lie to people but the converse must be banned or it will destroy our entire way of life.

  10. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  11. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should actually piss off if you don't know what SOPA means by now. You obviously don't care.

  12. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Tea Party are marks. His donors are his real constituency.

    Because the Tea Party has staked out such a strong opinion on copyright? I'll bet if you explained this bill to random people on the street, 5% would be in favor, 5% would be opposed, and the rest would stare at you blankly. Copyright affects programmers directly since we are content creators, but most people are as interested in copyright law as they are in foreign-fish importation law.

    When voters don't care about a subject, it leaves the congress-people free to do whatever they want. So they do.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  13. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They'll care when someone shuts down YouTube and Facebook.

    It's all in how you explain it.

  14. close, but no cigar by GungaDan · · Score: 2

    "The mindset of drawing battle lines in terms of 'right' and 'left' is what has allowed politicians to move steadily into lobbyist pockets (like hermit crabs) for the past 30 years"

    The mindset of viewing money as speech, and thus allowing 0.05 percent of the citizenry of the US to fund all political campaigns is what has moved our critters into the lobbyists pockets. The only practical solution to this is to legislate that all elections are State-funded, and any outside money found in any campaign is the end of that campaign. The problem is, how do you legislate this when the 0.05 percent of the citizenry currently funding campaigns opposes such reform quite loudly with their billions of dollars worth of "speech?"

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    1. Re:close, but no cigar by imakemusic · · Score: 2

      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    2. Re:close, but no cigar by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only practical solution to this is to legislate that all elections are State-funded, and any outside money found in any campaign is the end of that campaign

      That's also open to abuse, because how do you determine who qualifies for state funding? If the barrier to entry is too high, then you risk keeping the same oligarchy you have (or swapping it for a new one). If it's too low, then people can easily use it to funnel money to their own pockets (e.g. set up a leaflet printing company, nominate 10 candidates that all use you to print their own content-free leaflets, profit). Or they can simply flood the system with generic like-the-opposition candidates. For example, in the UK a few elections ago we had a Literal Democrat candidate, who got enough votes to get their deposit back because people confused him with the Liberal Democrats and split the Liberal Democrat vote just enough to cause them to lose the election to the Conservatives (who weren't running against a Conservatory Party candidate in that election). If you have a constituency that is 60% liberal and 40% conservative and the barrier to entry is sufficiently low, the best strategy for the conservatives is to back half a dozen liberal candidates...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:close, but no cigar by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      Look, the "practical" solution you propose is neither practical, nor a (long-term) solution. It's been tried in various ways, and there is ALWAYS a loophole or a creative way for money to find its target.

      On the contrary, the only real solution is to remove from Congress the power to make such legislation. This will take away the reason for the existence of lobbyists, partisanship, and politicians clinging to their positions. The constitution attempted to do this, but the courts and we have been lazy and complicit enough to let them get their way.

      "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
      H. L. Mencken

      "We fought for freedom and all we got was democracy."
      Pieter-Dirk Uys

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    4. Re:close, but no cigar by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      That's also open to abuse, because how do you determine who qualifies for state funding?

      Easy, if you can actually get on the ballot, you get funding. The hard part, which public financing wouldn't change, is getting enough signatures on the ballot petition to actually get on the ballot.

    5. Re:close, but no cigar by Aryden · · Score: 1

      You do it the same way that candidacy is selected now, petitions. Candidate has to earn x number of signatures to be put on the ballot in the first place.

    6. Re:close, but no cigar by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The only practical solution to this is to legislate that all elections are State-funded

      Which reduces to "let the media pick the office-holders".

      However the "media" will be defined by the officeholders, of course. Since the "media" will be the only unrestricted money flowing into campaigns ("if we say nice things about you, you'll be sure to be nice to us after the election, right?")

      So, how many people are ready to let Congress define who the "media" (you remember, the ones protected by a First Amendment right to print anything they like about politics, whether true or false, misleading or otherwise?) is, and then let that definition control who gets good press, and who gets bad press?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:close, but no cigar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the person has to provide a non-refundable nominal processing fee (i.e. $1 000 - $10 000) which can be obtained from one or more third parties (donors) each contributing like a max of $100 or so in addition to getting those signatures. Public funding cannot be used for the processing fee nor paying any individual that contributed to the processing fee (even for any goods/services). Conspiracy to funnel public funding is felony theft. The election board must certify anyone providing goods & services that are paid via public funding & publishes all rates publicly (i.e. those rates are available to everyone) with reasonable exceptions for scale if reasonable (i.e. tv = not). Using outside parties to provide these goods/services can result in fines at the discretion of the election board.

      Candidates are allowed to violate the amount set by the election board by up to 2x but only if all parties on the ballot agree (e.g. if a third party candidate joins - they can prevent all outside financing).

      There's various other things that could be done too (e.g. ensuring equal access to shared mediums like TV & radio so that a TV station either carries all election ads or none of them nor does it charge any a higher rate).

    8. Re:close, but no cigar by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      This is where you have to have restrictions on what the media can say around election time.
      Over here, all the political ads are labeled as such.

      Unfortunately your "Corp = Person" crap... and it is crap!... means over in the USA you cant seem to do this in a way that sticks.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
  15. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by omnichad · · Score: 2

    PHP (a programming language)

    You mean PHP (PHP [PHP {..to infinity..} Hypertext Preprocessor] Hypertext Preprocessor)

  16. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Genda · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the same way that cyanide is a cure for over-eating... it just has side effects.

  17. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    They'll care when someone shuts down YouTube and Facebook. It's all in how you explain it.

    You mean if you lie to them, they'll understand your explanation? No, if you tell them that the government is going to shut down YouTube and Facebook, they won't believe you. And they would be right, the government is not going to shut down Youtube and Facebook, this is to PROTECT Youtube and Facebook.

    The harshest part of this law (in my opinion, as I understand it, which is little considering it is a long law and rather confusing), is that it will increase the penalties for illegal downloading of songs. Soon you won't hear about a single mom who got charged $500k for using p2p, you'll hear about a mom who got sent to jail for a year because of p2p. But once again, people didn't care when the single mom got charged $500k, so why do you expect them to care about a year in jail? The $500k is arguably worse.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  18. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    Only if you call it what it really is.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  19. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, I did already know what SOPA is. I don't know what PIPA is, though...

  20. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, SOPA is not just a harsher version of DMCA, It would force U.S. internet companies like Google to censor search results as a response to a copyright allegation.

  21. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

    some moderate parent +trillion insightful with funny toppings :P

  22. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Skal+Tura · · Score: 2

    It's typoed, it should read "Stop Online Privacy Act" .... OH wait nvm, it's intentional typo

  23. Not right or left, statist by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the mindset that has caused the US to move steadily to the right for the past 30 years. The lesser evil is still evil.

    We have not really moved left or right exactly, so much as we have moved towards statism - where the state controls everything. That is what we must withdraw from to regain freedoms we have lost.

    However it must be noted that currently the Left is far more into promoting statist ideals than the Right (which was body-checked by the Tea Party over this issue).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not right or left, statist by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      However it must be noted that currently the Left is far more into promoting statist ideals than the Right (which was body-checked by the Tea Party over this issue).

      Two observations about this. First, the republicans don't control the government right now. So obviously they're not going to want to increase the power of the government. Put republicans back in charge and they will rapidly increase the power of the state just like they've done every time they held power.

      Second, the Tea Party alternative to statism is corporatism which is even worse than statism.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Not right or left, statist by Hatta · · Score: 2

      However it must be noted that currently the Left is far more into promoting statist ideals than the Right (which was body-checked by the Tea Party over this issue).

      One more thing. Barack Obama is not a leftist. He is a center rightist, somewhere between Reagan and Nixon.

      The true left hasn't had a voice in Washington in the past 30 years.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Not right or left, statist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However it must be noted that currently the Left is far more into promoting statist ideals than the Right (which was body-checked by the Tea Party over this issue).

      One more thing. Barack Obama is not a leftist. He is a center rightist, somewhere between Reagan and Nixon.

      The true left hasn't had a voice in Washington in the past 30 years.

      Thank the flying spaghetti monster...

    4. Re:Not right or left, statist by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      However it must be noted that currently the Left is far more into promoting statist ideals than the Right (which was body-checked by the Tea Party over this issue).

      Statist ideas like controlling who can actually get married?

      Furthermore, the Tea Party is promoting Corporatist ideas, which can be even more harmful, as there is absolutely no check on their power.

    5. Re:Not right or left, statist by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

      Second, the Tea Party alternative to statism is corporatism which is even worse than statism.

      Major Citation Needed because this is a whopper of a straw man. The Tea Party is the movement protesting the bailouts and stimulus (at least the later one), and the straight-to-pharma's-pockets-Obamacare bill... if that wasn't corporatism I don't know what is!

  24. Ron Wyden, hardcore liberal? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    I'd like to know who is calling Ron Wyden a hardcore liberal, because they clearly haven't been paying attention to Mr. Wyden recently. Just his co-sponsoring of this bill that would partially privatize Medicare should convince anyone that he's not a 'hardcore liberal.'

    He's quite moderate, actually, which explains why he's trying to cut through the bullshit and actually work with people from the "opposition" party.

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  25. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Linux isn't an acronym
    PHP is one of those stupid recursive acronyms So really the acronym is the name.
    iOS apple never called it anything else. So it is its real name.

    SOPA I would say isn't reasonable for everyone to know what it is or what it stands for. For one it is new. It is for a new bill, it hasn't been around for years. Secondly it is what the United States Congress calls it, Other countries are not always involved what the US is doing all the time... Also us Americans may not always be into seeing every bill that comes out of the US. Third Slashdotters don't always log in every day, or week or month. So when they come it these articles make no sense.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  26. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep, when stuff like this starts passing, it's time to leave the country.

  27. Bait and switch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wait. So the main opponents to such a bill are Ron Paul and Pelosi, but IT World would rather poo-poo Ron Paul because they (like so many other liberals I could mention) would rather cut their nose to spite their face, and support a watered down version of the bill coming from more mainstream politicians? And Pelosi isn't worth mentioning at all?

    Yeah, fuck you IT World.

    1. Re:Bait and switch. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 0

      ...but IT World would rather poo-poo Ron Paul because they... would rather cut their nose to spite their face...

      No, they "pooh-pooh" Ron Paul because he is a Libertarian nut case whose policies would crater the economy and destroy the small amount of control the government provides its citizenry against the power of the corporations in this country. If you actually read his policies without drinking the Libertarian KoolAid, you'd know just how batcrap crazy they were.

      --
      That is all.
    2. Re:Bait and switch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *looks at current world-wide economic meltdown and latest news of 11 trillion dollar bailout of banks*

      Yeah, fuck you too.

    3. Re:Bait and switch. by Arker · · Score: 2

      The economy has been cratered quite well, reversing the policies that cratered it is clearly a 'nut case' response though, thank you for pointing that out. If you would pay a little attention to the real world instead of your comfortable little ivory tower of consensus, you might notice that the government does NOT provide the citizenry any sort of power against the corporations, quite the opposite, it is through government corruption that they achieve their power in the first place. If you actually read his policies without drinking the war party kool-aid, you might realise just how batcrap crazy everyone ELSE in the field is.

      FTFY

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  28. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    It would force U.S. internet companies like Google to censor search results as a response to a copyright allegation.

    If you think that's what this law is about, you are wrong, Google already censors search results as a response to a copyright allegation. That's what the DMCA was about.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  29. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by mbone · · Score: 1

    the government is not going to shut down Youtube and Facebook, this is to PROTECT Youtube and Facebook

    No, it is not.

  30. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by LordThyGod · · Score: 2

    Only someone who lives in a cave would not know about this.

  31. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by mbone · · Score: 2

    When voters don't care about a subject, it leaves the congress-people free to do whatever they want. So they do.

    Yes. True leaders tell their constituents things that they need to know, so they can be better informed about the issues at hand. Conmen and grifters always try and befog their marks with a blizzard of words and concerns about extraneous things. The marks may mean well, but they're still being played.

  32. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Yes, it is (once again, I don't claim to be an expert on the law, it's too long to read and this is according to my understanding of it). The law explicitly gives the executive branch the power to block foreign websites, which is why people are comparing it to China's censorship. China wanted to promote their own internal version of Twitter, Google, etc, so they blocked Twitter, Google, etc.

    When the president, or one of his minions, decides that DailyMotion.com is causing problems for Google, they can now block it. Do you believe they won't?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  33. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Synerg1y · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article fails at describing SOPA and is super vague in most of its descriptions.

    Better description

  34. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    This falls under the same category as articles that think everybody will want Android because it can be hacked.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  35. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    only someone who lives in a cave would think that everyone lives in their cave with him/her.

  36. Toothpaste Factory by Saint+Dharma · · Score: 1

    Here's the crux of the biscuit: SOPA and PIPA is the latest attempt of the MPAA, the RIAA and a whole alphabet soup of organizations representing billion dollar babies who have been crying about the internet killing their business since Napster reared its' nappy head up. This is also them trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube after realizing they should have bought a stake in the factory. This will not pass, and a watered down version of it won't pass either because the RIAA doesn't think it would go fast enough. Quit crying and adapt, people.

  37. Crooked Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    FYI, My New York Senator Kirsten Gilibrand is a cosponsor of PIPA (the senate equivalent of SOPA) and is the top recipient of campaign financing from the TV / Movies / Music industry. In a decent society an elected official would recuse themselves from taking a position if they received bribes campaign funding from anybody that might benefit from that position. It's a disgrace that our government comprises of crooks like Gillibrand.

  38. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SOPA I would say isn't reasonable for everyone to know what it is or what it stands for. For one it is new. It is for a new bill, it hasn't been around for years. Secondly it is what the United States Congress calls it, Other countries are not always involved what the US is doing all the time... Also us Americans may not always be into seeing every bill that comes out of the US. Third Slashdotters don't always log in every day, or week or month. So when they come it these articles make no sense.

    SOPA has been mentioned at least once a week on /. for at least a few weeks, if not months, and you still don't know what it is?

    SOPA is the Stop Online Piracy Act AKA the U.S. Government Lets RIAA/MPAA Hijack DNS With No Oversight Act.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  39. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Yes. True leaders tell their constituents things that they need to know, so they can be better informed about the issues at hand.

    Heh, once again, imagine if during a debate a candidate started talking about the finer points of lumber-importation policy. It wouldn't matter how great a leader he/she was, because people aren't interested in that. They want to hear about the things they are interested in.

    The only times we get great leaders is during wartime, because that's when everyone is paying attention. As soon as voters stop paying attention, we get grifters. As they say, democracy doesn't guarantee good government, it guarantees the government people deserve.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  40. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

    if you explained this bill to random people on the street, 5% would be in favor, 5% would be opposed, and the rest would stare at you blankly.

    Heh. Well said, and it applies equally to most important issues, bills or policies. Disinterested, incurious and apathetic people make a perfect breeding ground for opportunistic politicians.

  41. I like Wyden by geekoid · · Score: 1

    But the fact that he is now considered a 'hard core liberal' really show how far the party line has moved toward republicans.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  42. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by geekoid · · Score: 1

    ", it's too long to read "

    then shut up.

    You haven't read it, and you don't understand it.

    "Do you believe they won't?"
    no, they won't. That;s the part I'm not even concerned with. It wold be apolitical disaster. It's the same reason Marshal Law has never been declared.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  43. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by geekoid · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the article.

    "The letter is short and to the point, explaining that, under the provisions currently found in the Stop Online Piracy Act " stop being a dumb ass.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  44. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Azure+Flash · · Score: 2

    Well, to be fair, SOPA could stand for a number of things, such as: Stop Online Publishing Act, Stop Online Pragmatism Act, Shit On Public Act, Severely Outrageous Politics Act, Shame On Politicians Act...

  45. Entertaining by lightknight · · Score: 2

    Does anyone with any amount of technical training actually think this bill is a good idea? No.

    Why do they think this isn't a good idea? Because they understand the internet, its design, and the people affected better than these lawmakers. Sadly, these lawmakers only here the sound of "bling bling and clink clink" as they sell out their constituents for what must be the thirteen-thousandth time. Someone should sit them down, use small words, and explain to them just how badly they're selling out their own offspring. But I digress, our culture is one of being wealthy for one day, and poor for the rest of time.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  46. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by davek · · Score: 1

    is it the Stop Online Privacy Act?

    Paul, is that you?

    --
    6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
  47. Corporatist by hellfire · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wrong. The US is not becoming statist, it's becoming (is?) corporatist. You got modded up by all the Libertarians, who love this line of argument but it doesn't make sense.

    The traditional left, especially the progressive wing of the Democratic party, espouse civil libertarianism, regulation of corporations, and control of industries where they feel competition does not work (i.e. medicine).

    The traditional right, espouses fewer regulations on corporations so as not to become a dictator ship that picks winners unfairly and fiscal responsibility of the government as a whole, and striking a balance between federal and state powers. In the past, they have not liked spending, but when spending was called for, they called for a sensible balanced budget at all times.

    The current Democratic part still espouses civil Libertarianism as a whole, but doesn't push it too hard because it stirs certain idiot groups to froth at the mouth and rather than go after them, they quiet down, and because Americans as a whole aren't very socially progressive (one of the last developed nations to free black slaves and give women the right to vote, and we'll probably be one of the last to allow some kind of marriage reform). Corporations actually fund these idiot groups and claim it's grassroots behind cleverly used laws designed to shield nonprofit corporations. The no longer push hard, as a group, for corporate regulations, because the only people able to put together enough money to help them run for office are the corporations, so they don't chime up too much about regulations. So thanks to clever corporate greed, the Democrats as a group are simply pussies.

    The current Republican party still espouses fewer regulations, but to the detriment of the people as if to have no regulations and an anarchy state. This is thanks to corporations donating to them and giving them speeches that simply state that we have too many regulations and taxes when corporations are already free to run rampant and we are going broke. They get donations from those same corporations that fund the idiot groups, and are basically paid to say the same things these idiot groups say about social causes. They no longer push fiscal responsibility because they don't care if we have the money, they just keep chanting "lower taxes" instead of "fair taxes" or "just enough taxes." The taxes are lowest on the upper class and keep going lower, under the guise that if the rich get more money, they'll hire more people, which hasn't shown any truth in in decades. It's called trickle down economics, and it doesn't work. But they don't have time to talk about any other fiscal matters because they are too busy pushing the idiot group agenda. And they push it so hard then end up being supreme dicks about any issue they are on. And they look like dicks when open their mouths about some social issue that people just want to stop talking about. So thanks to clever greed, Republicans as a group are really big dicks

    So yes, our government is run by a bunch of pussies and dicks fucking around and not getting anything done, being directed by corporations to not get anything done unless it makes more money for them. And we all watch it expecting something new to happen when it's the same boring stupid shit over and over. Welcome to porn Washington, DC style. Statist my ass, the state is dead!

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:Corporatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our history with slavery isn't all that great, but if you think we were the last to franchise women voters and will be the last to implement marriage reform, you are just factually incorrect.

      By the way, which party led the push to end slavery?

    2. Re:Corporatist by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      The taxes are lowest on the upper class and keep going lower

      Mostly agree with your post, but the part I quote there is just plain wrong. 10% of a $10000 income is $1000. Even if the rich pay half that percentage, 5% of a million dollar income is $50,000. The rich pay more than the poor in taxes, period, end of story.

      There are a lot of ways to frame what you're trying to say correctly, and in such a way as to clearly demonstrate social injustice, and you should find one of them you like and use it. Don't say the rich pay less taxes than the poor -- it just makes you look math-impaired. They don't.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Corporatist by RelliK · · Score: 1

      > Mostly agree with your post, but the part I quote there is just plain wrong. 10% of a $10000 income is $1000. Even if the rich pay half that percentage, 5% of a million dollar income is $50,000. The rich pay more than the poor in taxes, period, end of story.

      uhhm... that's an idiotic statement. Do you expect everyone to pay the same absolute amount regardless of income? In your example above, would you consider it "fair" for a person with 10k income to pay 50k in taxes or for a person with 1M income to pay 1k in taxes?

      The statement "the taxes are lowest on the upper class" means precisely that, as a percentage of income the taxes on the top 1% are the lowest they have been since 1929.

      > Don't say the rich pay less taxes than the poor -- it just makes you look math-impaired. They don't.

      uhhm.. yes, they absolutely fucking do! That's largely because the rich derive the majority of their income from dividends and capital gains, which, for some idiotic reason are taxed at only 15%. That leads the rich people who are not assholes -- like Warren Buffet, for example -- to lament that they pay a lower tax rate than their secretary.

      --
      ___
      If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
    4. Re:Corporatist by liamoohay · · Score: 1

      I'd like to echo this point. The issue is not statism, but corporatism. This has a lot to do with essentially unfettered influence of corporate money in politics. Our politicians (especially at the national level) spend a good deal of their energy fundraising, as it's often the candidate with the most money that wins. So our politicians need to solicit corporate backing: they basically have no hope of getting elected into high office without it. Hence, they have a powerful incentive to pander to moneyed interests rather than the people that they actually represent.

      This is not an issue of left or right. It is something fundamentally wrong with the American political system. Fix it, and the politicians regardless of their political affiliations will be answerable to the people again and not the corporations: they will work for us.

    5. Re:Corporatist by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Look, a lower tax rate != "paying less taxes." Pull your head out of your ass and write truthfully, and you'll make a better impression. Just admit you're wrong and fix it. It amazes me that some people are too stubborn to even accept assistance designed to forward their specific intent.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  48. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by phantomfive · · Score: 1
    Wow, someone didn't get their morning meds.

    You haven't read it, and you don't understand it.

    Neither have 99.999% of the people on this site, including you. I know you didn't read and understand it because if you were a lawyer, you wouldn't have gotten this next part wrong:

    It's the same reason Marshal Law has never been declared.

    It has been declared, and approved by congress, you're just ignorant. Check it out. If you want to talk to people who actually HAVE read the law, go find a forum of lawyers.

    no, they won't. That;s the part I'm not even concerned with.

    Really, really no one cares what you're concerned with.~~~

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  49. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Toe,+The · · Score: 2

    Would it be terribly insulting to our intelligence to just link to the Wikipedia article? It would cost nothing to anyone, and, well, that's why Wikipedia is there in the first place.

    Yes, I can do that search on my own... I guess I can compile all my own software too. But for some reason, some OSS projects actually compile it for me. Is that really so bad of them?

  50. Re:yuo fai7 i7! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Camber Linux orSuccessful BSD naptime. They shouldn't have NetBSD with its security was going to handle. trials?

  51. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by s73v3r · · Score: 1

    Given the Tea Party's claim that they're for "smaller government", they absolutely should be against this. The fact that so many of them aren't is telling about what the Tea Party's true motives are.

  52. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by SleazyRidr · · Score: 0

    WHOOSH!

  53. Bad news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First, the fact that these two stand together on this issue is proof you can't trust anybody in congress. There is no hope until they are all purged.

    I am against manditory health insurance, pro gun, pro choice, pro constitution, against government control, I support Unions, want a balanced budget at all times, I'm Anti-Islam, Anti-racism, Against illegal immigrents, and think the bankers need to be liquidated, and I'm Athiest. So sho
    the hell should I vote for?

    1. Re:Bad news by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Well there's the Schizophrenic Party and the Batshit Insane Party...

      This guy's pretty straightforward compared to you:

      http://www.theonion.com/articles/fiscally-im-a-rightwing-nutjob-but-on-social-issue,20486/

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  54. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2

    Oh? Congress isn't capable of subterfuge? Just as the meaning of a patent is contained in the Claims and not in the Abstract, the meaning of a law lies in the text itself. In the name of stopping online piracy, SOPA would give the US government, and by extension, the various intellectual property rights organizations, the power to make any internet node node inaccessible from the United States.

  55. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Might also know how to spell it.
      It's 'martial" law, not "marshal" law. and it need not be capitalized. It's not a proper noun.
    Posting as AC due to having moderated already.

  56. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Code+Yanker · · Score: 1

    Mod parent up.

    Admittedly, you SHOULD already know what the Stop Online Piracey Act is, but whoever modded you as flamebait obviously had an axe to grind.

  57. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Tarsir · · Score: 2

    I have forgotten what SOPA is a couple times a week for that same period :(

  58. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2

    If you do not know what SOPA is at this point, then you must not read /. very often. It is kind of like not knowing what the DMCA is...

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  59. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Informative

    SOPA has been mentioned at least once a week on /. for at least a few weeks, if not months, and you still don't know what it is?

    What if they mailed the link to their non-techie relatives? What if they just joined Slashdot? What if the person is a writer with a mind for words and phrases not acronyms? Journalistic standard is to use the full name first before using the acronym. The exception is headlines. So Slashdot should have posted:

    Headline: Meet the Strange Bedfellows Who Could Stop SOPA
    jfruhlinger writes
    "In a political environment that's become very strongly defined by partisan lines, the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) debate has offered ...

  60. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, bro, dailymotion could never give youtube problems. I just checked it out and was constantly bombarded with 30 second ads to watch a 3 minute video. That's a worse ad to content ratio than broadcast TV! You may have a point in theory but i can assure you dailymotion specifically will in no way threaten youtube.

  61. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Belgaren · · Score: 1

    the Parti Internationale Pirate Association ?

  62. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When voters don't care about a subject, it leaves the congress-people free to be bought by whoever has the most money. So they are.

    FTFY.

  63. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by lwsimon · · Score: 1

    iOS used to be iPhone OS.

    --
    Learn about Photography Basics.
  64. It needs another GOP detractor by lwsimon · · Score: 1

    Issa has his hands full with the Fast & Furious investigation, I would think.

    --
    Learn about Photography Basics.
  65. in the end by alienzed · · Score: 1

    regardless of law, people are going to do what people are going to do, and that will never change no matter what bills are passed, copyrights/patents are awarded. You can't stop anyone from doing anything, all you can do is threaten and extort. Human nature will eventually win out though. STOP trying to prevent people from engaging in activities that cause no direct harm, you are wasting time and money and holding back a society that desperately needs to move forward. First order of business, stop preventing people from moving forward.

    --
    Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
  66. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i think he was being witty. i chuckled.

  67. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by drb226 · · Score: 0

    No, these people are debating about screaming "SOUP" in Spanish.

  68. Read Between the Lines by Gim+Tom · · Score: 1

    These bills are not about piracy of music or movies or anything else. They are about control of ANY content that may be available on the Internet. It means that ANY site can be shut down by CLAIMING it violates the provisions of this act with no due course, proof or recourse of any kind. It is FAR worse than the DMCA. The only thing that will offset the huge amounts of money being poured out to the congrescritters to get this bill passed is for thousands and thousands of voters to contact them and tell them that if it passes they will loose your vote.

    HAVE YOU CALLED YOUR CONGRESS CRITTER?

  69. Rock, hard place: Interstitial by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    See, here's the thing. The constitution only authorizes limited government. No sane person can read it any other way. The federal government, for its part, has found such actual authorization too limiting... seriously... and so basically ignores the constitution. In doing so, it has exercised the power to enable various things it doesn't actually have the authority to implement, such as a nationwide social safety net. It has also destroyed the bill of rights and unleashed a veritable laundry list of evils upon the population.

    Now, if you want the federal government to be restrained, either you need an entirely new constitution to be put in place (how???), or you need the government's exercise of power to be chopped back to the current constitution's authorized limits, and then the constitution will need amendment so that the good things, which actually consist of a fairly long list despite the long, long list of evils, can be legitimized as functions of the federal government -- because really, the constitution as it stands doesn't authorize much power for the feds at all unless you read it with a mumble, two glass eyes, and a brain tumor.

    On the other hand, if you want the federal government to be free to do whatever it wants, constrained only by what congress can agree upon, so that inconveniences like constitutional conventions aren't required to implement, for instance, nationwide medicare for old folks, nationwide schooling and standards for children, and making it legitimately illegal for your neighbor to own an anthrax factory or a nuke, then (a) we're already in that situation, but (b) it unfortunately has brought with it a whole host of evils, like the sundering of almost the entire bill of rights, the inversion of the commerce clause, ex post facto law, usurpation of article 5 powers under the guise of article 3, assassination of US citizens (aka premeditated killing by stealth without anything even remotely resembling due process), congress-folk voting in things like their own raises and being immune to insider trading laws. From my POV, government freedom has been tested and found extremely wanting.

    But getting to a constitutionally restrained government... I haven't got even a clue about a workable process for that. I don't think anyone else does, either. The "ammo box", so beloved of Internet tough guyz, I can't see working. Supposing the unlikely event of a successful armed revolution, I truly can't imagine enough of a framework remaining to create a new government. OTOH, if the military does it for us, that'll leave us directly in the hands of a known conservative religious organization with huge firepower, and I think the only thing that would possibly arise successfully from that is a theocracy -- something considerably worse, IMHO, than what we have now, strange as that may sound. Certainly the congresscritters aren't going to limit themselves, they're quite literally fat and happy with the status quo, and looking at the political requirements for becoming one (basically you need to be corrupt) and the bennies once you're there, why wouldn't they be?

    What's going to happen here -- IMHO, of course -- is that our society is going to continue this slide down to the outright ultimate power of the 535; elections will continue to be less and less subtly rigged, as we see with the media ignoring Paul, despite his essentially equal to front runner status, with the public being steered carefully to vote only for approved candidates, and/or voting machines rigged as required, when required, again as we have already seen; laws will continue to be made regardless of constitutionality, and then backed up by the bought-and-paid-for mouthpieces on the supreme court; and the vast majority of the country will continue to not care. Technology will step in with robotics and manufacture on demand, and keep the population generally happy with "stuff" and comfort, and all will be well, as long as you are willing to be the round peg in the round hole the government makes available fo

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  70. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by alva_edison · · Score: 2

    Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act of 2011, the Senate counterpart to SOPA.
    the above spells PROTECT IP Act, which becomes PIPA.

    --
    He effected a bored affect.
  71. Paul is unfit? by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    I guess that's this election, then, because none of the current Republican candidates is fit for office

    Ron Paul? What makes him "unfit"? He's running neck-and-neck with the clown-shoes-of-the-week put forth by the party machine; he's fairly consistent, he has clearly articulated ideas. So how does he fit in with your evaluation?

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Paul is unfit? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      He's the only one I could vote for, except for his stance on environmental regs. That old fool had to have been impacted by the horrible pollution we had before the EPA.

      He has one more little problem -- getting people to vote for him because of the "wasted vote" fallacy; they were doing "man on the street" interviews with Republicans last week, and more than one said he'd like to see Paul nominated but "I didn't want to waste my vote."

    2. Re:Paul is unfit? by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

      I disagree with Paul on some points -- particularly the social safety net -- but I'm pretty sure he couldn't get his ideas implemented anyway, because congress would never stand for it. His superstitious wackery bothers me too, but I think that's the price of candidacy at this point in time -- and I'm pretty sure he's less likely to try and inflict it on the rest of as compared to just about any other candidate.

      My main issue that makes me really want him in there is his idea that we should pull back our military, and if some country wants us in there fighting, they can pay for the privilege. Turn the world's tendency to make war into profit instead of this constant drain on all of our resources. We certainly are good at some important parts of warfare, particularly smart weapons, stealth, intelligence acquisition, etc. And that *is* in the president's purview.

      I'm going to vote for him. With this field, it's either him or Obama, and Obama has disappointed me just a bit too much, particularly in the constitutional rights and making war in a fashion that makes certain to maximise what I consider the useless expenditure of human lives and the incurring of pointless debt, to reward him with my vote. I look at Paul, and I think to myself -- "I know what to expect here." I look at Obama, and I think -- "Liar." And yeah, I voted for Obama last time.

      Re environmental regs... when I was a kid, in the 50's and 60's, the sides of the highways were trashed, cigarette butts were everywhere, etc. Now people have stopped doing that, pretty much. It's very clean now by comparison. I think the takeaway is that most people -- acting as individuals -- have actually corrected their course, and that we would frown a lot on corporate polluters if they were brought to our attention (and there's always someone willing to do that.) Maybe everything doesn't have to be done by the federal government -- maybe a second chance wouldn't be a disaster. If it is, the states and/or congress -- not the president -- can correct the nation's course in this matter.

      I'm willing to give it a try. We have some leeway to do so -- as I said, it's a lot better now than it was mid-1990's.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:Paul is unfit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot can't support Ron Paul cause he is not an Israel firster like the rest of the US politicians.

  72. Re:Meet SOPA author Lamar Smith, Hollywood's favor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given the Tea Party's claim that they're for "smaller government", they absolutely should be against this. The fact that so many of them aren't is telling . . .

    I don't know where in the world you dreamed that up.

    The republicans in Congress that want SOPA are the old garde. They claim to be against excess government controls, but the cave on social issues or tech issues. Honestly, many of them don't understand much about technology. The recording industry makes big campaign donations, and they cave.

    That is very different than the tea party. We're younger, and support limit government ideals in all walks of life, including copyright and patent issues. We are frustrated that both parties have failed us. Take it from someone on the inside ... the tea party movement is very strongly against SOPA.

  73. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    JFGI.

  74. Issa: career criminal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only reason Issa would be on board is to sabotage it from within.

    Issa is a career criminal, and a lockstepping member of the Conservative Culture of Corruption.

  75. How to beat SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  76. HOWTO vote Republicrat with clear conscience by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    any change, currently, would require both parties to cooperate

    It'll require either that, or people voting for those other parties. Now that I think of it, for the parties to cooperate, will require people voting too. They have to be losing, in third place or lower, to ever have incentive to support election systems which don't give advantages to the top two.

    I'm not going to cast a vote for a non-Republican unless the Republican candidate is similarly harmful (in that case, an awful Democrat president at odds with Congress is a better alternative).

    It sounds like you've decided to vote against overthrowing the Republicrats. It may not be your desire, but it's what you're going to reluctantly do. It's ok, I understand. Lots of people face that terrible decision.

    I hope to see that changed in my lifetime

    Hoping that the change will happen, in spite of your voting against it? Oh dear... we have a problem.

    but at the same time, I have to deal with the current reality.

    By "deal with" I think you mean "endorse and support" with your vote to maintain the status quo.

    Tell ya what. I have a solution.

    Come over half way. Go ahead and vote for the Republicrats, but advocate against them when you're outside the voting booth. (Don't tell anyone you're going to vote against election reform; keep that a secret.) Find one other person, and convince them to vote against the Republicrats, in order to cancel out your vote for the Republicrats. Then you can say you did the safe thing, while also saying you did no net harm. Sound good?

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  77. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by kdemetter · · Score: 1

    Protect Intellectual Property Act ?

  78. Had George Walker Bush Never Been Born by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a wonderful world it would be.

  79. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

    +1 , but then again, you're just an AC

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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
  80. Re:And if you don't know offhand what SOPA is... by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of that HIRE act passed last year that claimed to be about encouraging hiring more employees in the US but was really a capital control bill.

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    The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.