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Ask Slashdot: Entry-Level Robotics Kits For Young Teenagers?
An anonymous reader writes "So, it's that wonderful time of year again. Instead of buying the latest, greatest whiz-bang, overpriced fad toy of the year, I thought I might try my hand at corrupting my nieces (ages 12 and 14) in a nerdier direction with some sort of introductory robotics kit. They have no programming experience, and part of my idea is that it would be encouraging for them to see interactions of their code that they write with the real-world by being able to control some actuators and read sensors. The first thing that comes to mind is Lego Mindstorms, but I find them a bit on the pricey side of things. My budget falls between $40 and $100, and the ideal kit would focus more on the software side than on soldering together circuits. I'd be looking for a kit that provides an easy to learn API and development tools that will work with a standard Windows PC. I don't mind spending a few afternoons helping them out with the basics, but I'd like for them to be able to be able to explore on their own after grasping the initial concepts. Has anybody gotten their younger relations into programming through robotics, and what kits might you recommend?"
About a year ago I was looking for something similar to the Radio Shack Armitron I had as a kid. I ended up getting an OWI robotic arm for my kids, which is pretty cheap at $35 on Amazon, also has a USB control board for an extra $15 or so. You assemble it yourself, but it's fairly easy as plastic models go, even relative to Legos, and the build quality is pretty high for the price.
There's even code. to get the USB control stuff working under *nix . I had to make a few minor tweaks to get it to compile on my Linux box, and it's a bit basic, but it worked! Would be fairly trivial to build a web interface to it along with a webcam. The only downside is that it still draws power from D-cells, but that's easy enough to live with.
...and has shown NO interest in this. I too anxiously await recommendations from /.ers!
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
Arduino makes electronics and programming simple.
Cheap chinese toys provide you with part( set)s like motors, gears and radio links, with the additional engineering tricks to observe.
Regular Lego parts provide you with fast no-brainer mechanics. Fear not the drilling and abusing of Lego blocks to mount that motor!
The hard part now is for them to come up with ideas and interest.
FCKGW 09F9 42
Alternatively, or in addition, you could find a FIRST team for them to interact with. It would provide a good gateway for them to get into it, and it has teams for every level from kindergarten to high school. Obviously only an option if there's a relatively local one though.
It's a bit higher than that price range though, at $130.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
www.osbots.com sells a cell phone based platform.
Visit Parallax.com - lots of robot kits starting at about $130. These are great gateway products into "real" robotics, without the oversimplification of Lego bricks.
I suppose the field of rooting would be called rootics.
Their they're doing there hair.
There are numerous kits available, best sources for choosing one would be http://www.pololu.com/ , http://www.trossenrobotics.com/ , http://www.robotshop.com/ , http://www.lynxmotion.com/ , http://www.makershed.com/ and a bunch of others. http://sparkfun.com/ and http://adafruit.com/ for more general electronics components
Cant really recommend one in particular, as it depends on what you want to do. There are several categories : 2wheel differential drive bases, legged hexapods, 4wd bases, even bipeds and robotic arms.
If you get one that is designed to be Arduino-compatible, and can take any number of Arduino expansion shields, you will have endless possibilities. I'd say easiest starting point is a complete 2WD kit with some accessory sensors. This is a nice one http://www.makershed.com/product_p/mkseeed7.htm , comes with motors and all. Just pick a "mainboard" and motor driver shield and you are good to go.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
But from what I gather robotics are expensive. Even entry-level. That said, if you want something easy to play with Mindstorms seems to be the only viable option.
It looks like Edmund Scientific has some. Not sure which one is best though. http://www.scientificsonline.com/robotics.html/
if you want a robot kit, buy yourself a robot kit. They probably want an iPad or money or a bag of weed. Something they can actually use.
Nothing gets women into robotics better than a programmable vacuum cleaner!
Well, the 'iRobot Create" isn't actually a vacuum cleaner, though it looks a lot like a Roomba and probably is the same base platform.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Fischer Technik is an absolute winner here.
Excellent for teenagers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischertechnik
It goes well beyond what lego mindstorms has to offer.
True 6D connections, and even has stuff like pneumatics!
http://www.robotmatrix.org/Fischertechnik-Pneumatic-Robot.htm
Bram Stolk
http://stolk.org/HoverBiker/
Bram Stolk http://stolk.org/tlctc/
No offense, but the way this question is phrased it doesn't sound like they had any interest in the subject. We've had questions like this before, although usually it's "how do I get a kid started in programming", but we need to remember that kids are likely to have different interests and you cannot make one become a geek unless they already are.
Snap circuits price point better than Lego Mindstorms, appear to be less complex than RadioShack's 50 in 1 electronics kits...
i bought a couple of the RS electronics learning lab kits in anticipation of my kids developing interest, but they are still too young..
http://www.snapcircuits.net/
several choices...
Why not just get a breadboard and go read http://www.societyofrobots.com/ ?
Under 100$, you have all you need to create your first robot.
I can't call that English
> I thought I might try my hand at corrupting my nieces (ages 12 and 14) in a nerdier direction ...
I once tried that with my nieces of that age. I was told in no uncertain terms that they didn't want no more nerdy Christmas presents. Geeks are born, not made - or at least there must be parental support of actual thinking. Go with the cheapest junk de jour you can find *if* you must maintain family peace, otherwise a small lump of coal will do as well as any nerdy presents.
Don't be a tightwad.
Lego Mindstorms is what I grew up on and it does very well what it was designed to do. Mindstorms lowers the barriers to entry enough to where someone in the age group you specified can actually get some benefit out of the experience.
At the same time, Mindstorms is sophisticated enough that you aren't just soldering together a pre-programmed microcontroller like some of the robots kits out of "Edmunds Scientific".
Arduino can teach someone who has no experience with programming or electronics how to develop for embedded applications, assuming they have the attention span and focus to work through the learning curve and programming examples.
I've met very few 12-14 year olds with that level of focus. Their imaginations and ambitions will be stifled by a lack of fabrication skills, equipment, and facilities. They will be reduced to hack-a-day style tinkering where they can put together a computer interface for existing hardware, but they will not be able to go through the creative problem solving, & design process that makes robotics so fulfilling.
By all means, graduate them to an arduino after they've built some Mindstorms, but don't do them the injustice of throwing them to the wolves of boredom by getting them in over their head. Their first impression of robotics will be "difficult, boring, and inaccessible".
FIRST, & MATE both have robotics competitions targeted at children in the age group you specified. When you think they're ready, get them involved.
$300 is a pittance considering the return on investment. The $200-260 savings will translate to negative ROI in the thousands on future education expenses. A solid robotics foundation is the difference between an engineering/computer science student barely surviving college and looking forward to class every day.
Did I mention that Robotics discourages recreational drug use?
Get off your wallet and use a credit card. Then buy them an Arduino for their birthday.
They have no programming experience,
and probably no interest. You know the way to give good gifts is to try to understand what the recipient enjoys then give based on that information. When you try to push something "good for them" on them you're like that dentist who hands out toothbrushes on halloween.
-- QED
The thing about robotics is there's a great divide between really cool stuff and really lame stuff in terms of price. There are a lot of really cheap robotics kits.... but they're pretty lame: solder a few wires to a motor and board and watch a car follow a line. BFD. And then that's it, you can't do anything more with it. On the other hand all the awesome hexapods and humanoids are going to run you thousands of dollars. A single servo can cost over $100!
With that in mind, I highly suggest reconsidering the Mindstorms kit. You might even consider buying a Mindstorms 1.0 kit from Ebay. They're apparently on the 2.0 generation, and it seems like the 1.0 kit is significant;y cheaper. But it's seriously worth it.
If I were a kid again, I know something like a mindstorms kit would certainly get me interested in robotics. In fact, what got me interested in robotics initially was a Capsela robotics kit I got for Christmas. It was great having all the pieces and sensors there so whatever I imagined I could create and program. The programs were simple (eg. go forward until bumper press), but I didn't spend hours frustrated and stuck knowing what I wanted to do but unable to do it. Soon enough I graduated honest to god microcontrollers, soldering tools, and C.
Also I would rethink concentrating on the software side. Most people I know who are in robotics (I know a lot of people in robotics, it's my field) started because they loved building things with their hands. The appeal of robotics is to build something and then give it life. Both parts have to be there for you to foster interest. Getting bogged down in the programming is a bad idea, as it will just lead to frustration and then disinterest, especially if they've never programmed before. Again this seems like a win for Mindstorms.
tldr: don't be cheap and spend the money. You get what you pay for.
You couldn't be more off base. Everyone secretly thinks just like I do, unless someone is paying them to think a different way.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
I've used a number of entry level boards, some of them really bad and some really good. Do you have any idea what kind of language API you want the board to be based on? I ask because I know boards with C based API ( Handyboard ) and I know BASIC based API's etc...
You said you also have no programming experience so are you going to want to learn with them or go ahead and learn first then teach them? All of these things way into what I would recommend to you for a beginning board. However all that aside my big two recommenations would be:
1. Go PIC
2. Go Arduino
Both excellent entry names, next you just have to look at the choices and figure out what you want.
Whatever my brother and I "played with" is what "neef n' not" (my two nephews) found interesting. I had tools to make metal models and dies. My brother made rockets out of everything, usually things he shouldn't have. Both his kids spent more time with him playing with his toy rockets than they did with the latest cool toys. The excitement of blowing shit up, shooting things into the air, and the ability to build their own transformers had more effect than any commercial had on either of them. Long story short, get something your going to enthusiastically enjoy sharing with them.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
I signed one of my kids up for FLL ( http://www.firstlegoleague.org/ ), and it's worked well. The cost was something like $70 for one season. They use Mindstorms.
Pros:
- Kids develop teamwork skills as well as robotics skills
- More social for the kids than just working at home
- Each season kids are provided with some reasonable motivating problems. Even though the kids won't really solve them with Lego Mindstorms, it could give some kids a sense of the real good they can do if they pursue S&T careers.
Cons:
- Have to drive kids to the meeting every week, sometimes twice/week as end-of-year competition gets close.
- Kids can't totally choose their own problems, and won't have access to the equipment except during meeting times (probably).
I have about 10+ years of experience with the FIRST Robotics competition. For an "all inclusive robotics" kit you will need to increase your budget. However, electronics and software kits are in budget. Here's my list:
1. Innovation FIRST's Vex Robtic system. This is hands down the best system available. The kit is basic enough that you can get something working while also open enough that the possibilities are limitless. You can interface your own custom circuits with it. It comes with default software in source code form that you can modify to whatever you would like. It also has mechanical kits where you can build almost anything. It's also not flimsy. This is one of the most expensive options, but you can start around $300 and add on for years.
2. Lego MindstormsI would reccomend this kit for someone younger (8 or so.) It's not quite as extensible mechanically or electrically but is easier to use.
With those two out of the way and actually answering your post based on the budget, I would recommend a Basic Stamp kit from Parallax. The kits are aimed at learning electronics and software. They're not a lot to them mechanically, you need additional parts and know-how for that. The kits are low cost and require you to learn. I cut my teeth on the Basic Stamp 2 (BS2) and I turned out to be a successful software engineer.
Hi,
even if some might think off it as a nice twist of the fate, but let kids play with the toys they like !
If a boy likes to play with dolls let him be.
If a girl likes to play with GI-Joe let her be.
If some kid either boy or girl has shown interest in something technical just support don't push .. and giving out presents without being certian about kids interest is a way to push kids in a limbo of having to be thankfull and feeling probably guilty for not playing with the toy because it does not match the interest.
Ask and find out about interests first.
just my 2 cents
ps.
I bought myself 3 real working industry robots from the late 80s early 90s weighing 300kg ( 700 lb) each, they were not that expensive. (inlcuding control + teach pendant)
That's a real robotics kit ;)
So they're not robots, but if the girls are into fashion it's a a great way to get them started on programming while still keeping their interests in mind, They can make funky pillows for their bedroom or keep out signs for their doors or I dunno something else that a 12 year old girl might actually want. http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardLilyPad
open source modern art: laser taggi
It's small, fast, pre-built, can be made Arduino compatible, full source available, well documented. At $99 (but you need a $10 AVR programmer and batteries) so it's just outside of your budget. Check it out on youtube.
But I can highly recommend it - http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/975
Regrettably you can't buy curiosity, drive and will for under $100 (nor any other amount btw).
Fortunately there's plenty of easy learning material on robotics you can compile in few minutes scourging the web.
A nice selection of tools to break stuff open and a solder iron might be a good companion
It's not exactly robotics, but for about $20, my kid is learning a lot about electronics Minecraft through building redstone circuits:
http://www.minecraft.net/
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Redstone_Circuits
"Redstone circuitry is a feature introduced in Alpha which allows for intricate Redstone wire based mechanisms to be created by players. Redstone circuitry is similar to digital electronics (based on boolean algebra) in real life. t's also possible to use pistons in redstone circuits. "
You can even build stuff like elevators and music players.
Warning: Minecraft can be pretty addictive-seeming. Be sure to get your vitamin D, maybe get a treadmill workstation, and take regular breaks...
http://www.changemakers.com/discussions/discussion-493#comment-38823
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
This isn't really a good system for computer control, because it has no feedback - it uses simple DC motors without potentiometers or servos. So there is no way for the computer to know the arm position.
I have been picking up nxt 1.0 and the lego education 9797 sets on craigslist for no more than $125 over the last year. I have found 7 of them so far. I have picked up the older RCX lego sets for as little as $50. They have only needed a few missing pieces that have totaled about $20 on bricklink.com. The NXT kits are great for all ages. I am using them to run summer camps and help scouts get the robotics merit badge.
I will tell you up front that this is a bit on the pricier side, but for construction sets nothing in the world beats Fischertechnik. It is used by everyone from small children making toy houses and trucks, to universities in their robotics courses.
Fischertechnik was designed from the ground for making robust but easy-to-build precision constructs. While I admit that with the more recent Lego stuff one can build very complex and even impressive "machinery", Lego pales in comparison to the engineering, quality, and precision of Fischertechnik.
Spygears app building site http://www.spygear.net/build.php HackADay's spytrakr hacks http://hackaday.com/?s=spy+trakr
Early on something like Lego Mindstorms is good, as others have mentioned. A good thing a bit later on may be experimenting with one of the many free game design engines out there. Something like the Unity engine has a great drag-and-drop IDE compatible with Mac and PC, and supports programming in multiple languages. Simple mini-games and platformer shooters would be a great way to pique their interest if they are so inclined.
Interesting, I thought they used to cost a lot more (as much as the vacuums, so I figured you be better off hacking one of them).
hmm, it shows in the items included:
Battery Case (holds 12 non-rechargeable alkaline batteries. Batteries not included)
I thought the normal roombas have a big Nimh or so battery, and a dock? Might still be worth while to get the vacuum if that's the case...
Think I'll pick up one of the vacuum models at some point, that way if I get bored of it, it can still have a function ;)
Sent from my PDP-11
If the sweatiest, dirtiest, raunchiest, kinkiest sex I ever had actually involved expensive specialty chocolates, should I multiply by four, eight, or just expect a stack overflow?
Umm, speaking purely hypothetically, of course.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Ah yeah, it looks like this is the cut-price "feed it alkalines" model. You can get the one with a rechargeable battery and dock for the dearer price point of $220.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I guess if the only difference between these two is the battery and charger, at $80, might be wiser to get the cheaper one, and pick those up on ebay? Guess I'll have to look into it some more.
Have you hacked on them at all, yourself?
Sent from my PDP-11
Such as the Radio Shack kits. They come with text books that walk you through concepts. A bit lower level than a robotics kit but I think it is still worth it. BTW, it sounds like Heath Kit is back!
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
My boys also had a summer camp using Lego Mindstorms, however, the NXT system seems more like a toy. In a week at camp they really weren't encouraged to use sensors or programming involving decisions.
How about a programmable sybian?
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
You should check eBay for used Mindstorms kits. Even the older first generation kits or NXT (not NXT 2.0) kits have a lot to offer, and are just at the top end of your price range. The graphical programming environment (NXT-G) is very easy to learn. I've been working with an informal group of parents and kids that want to get ready to start an FLL team next year, and the kids are able to make the NXT bot do things within minutes (okay, maybe 5 to 10 minutes) of getting started with the software (and a chassis ready to go).
The Lego engineers have done a darn good job making robotics accessible. I considered for myself building up breadboards with microcontrollers, etc. but that's more for me. For the kids, the used NXT set has been fast and easy way for them to get to level that would take *much* longer with other approaches. I think most 10-year-olds will get board very quickly unless they can hit the ground running, and the NXT system does just that.
By the way, the older NXT kits can be upgraded to some degree with additional parts and sensors, and the FLL allows use of even the older Mindstorms kits, so it's not a dead-end purchase.
Hey, brookstone has a wifi-controlled car that I bought for this very reason (for my daughter who has been asking for a robot she can program).
I have figured out the control protocol and my plan is to attach a smartphone to the car and work together with her on some ways to have it smartly control the car. A phone already has much better cpu and sensors (camera, gps) than something like a low-end mindstorm has.
There should be no soldering required. I also want to focus on software. I'll let you know in a couple of months how it's going :)
... Have you EVER seen how a 12-14 year old girl reacts when she sees a cockroach? And now you're suggesting giving them one for christmas?
I read this waaay too late at night. I read it (twice) as "Entry level root kits for young teenagers".
I was going to offer my european promotional copy of Michael Jackson's 2001 single "You Rock My World". From Sony of course.
The Finch Robot was developed by CMU to teach programming using robots for a reasonable price. You can use Java, Python, C++, Visual Basic, Processing, and Scala. They have student oriented IDEs that you can download or you can use whatever one you'd like and are familiar with. The robot has a number of sensors including light, temperature, and obstacle sensors. It has accelerometers, motors, a buzzer, a color beak LED and a pen mount for drawing capability. It comes in at $99, so just under budget. It has a large software focus as I don't think you can really take it apart. You can do quite a lot with it in any case. I'd recommend it as it's really designed to teach programming in a fun way and it's a great deal if you aren't in the market for the fancier (and very expensive) robotics kits. http://www.finchrobot.com/
Here's an Arduino offshoot that's got the software support of Arduino, but flexibility with add-on modules: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/upgradeindustries/boardx-the-open-source-miniature-motherboard-redem