Samsung Reconsidering Android 4.0 On the Galaxy S

ghostoftiber writes "The original Galaxy S was the redheaded step child of the Samsung device line. ... Samsung announced over Christmas that the original Galaxy S was done, leaving its faithful fans in a position of having another year on their contracts with no upgrade path. Users were predictably incensed, and it looks like Samsung changed their minds. There's also the Samsung Vibrant development forum if you want Ice Cream Sandwich running on your Vibrant right now." The original source is bit iffy and implies that the release will not be fully featured (probably due to hardware constraints). Business Insider contacted Samsung directly and an official response is expected today.

Comments

It's the business model

[Overly Critical Guy]

It's possible but unlikely. The Android phone business model guarantees that updates will be a mess. Putting Android updates on older phones decreases the likelihood that people will buy new phones, and it costs them support and engineering to put out an update.

Carriers don't want you to buy a new phone; they want you to pay a monthly bill. Android gives the carriers control over your phone. This is part of the problem with the argument that Android is about freedom and choice. For contrast, note that the 2 1/2 year old iPhone 3GS can run the latest version of iOS because Apple maintains strict control over the hardware platform to the benefit of the customer, and Microsoft has similar control over Windows Phones to align third-party devices with an OS roadmap.

Android has greater total marketshare due to an abundance of budget phones, but marketshare isn't what drives business; it's profits and customer satisfaction, and the iPhone is the top-selling handset because of the control Apple enforces on its platform as well as the one making the most profit. The narrative is not Android versus Apple, as if Android is some big company--it's Apple versus Samsung versus HTC versus Motorola versus Acer versus Asus verus Coby versus Coby vs. Sony-Ericsson versus Fusion Garage versus RIM versus HP versus Archos.

Seamless experiences always win out over time. We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles, and now the industry is shifting from desktops to mobile devices. Fragmentation is a huge for users.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

In the US, at least, most people buy new phones every 2 years or so because that is when their contract is up and they are free/cheap. If a company only keeps their phone updated for a year or less, that should just make the customer angry for the second year of the cell plan and more likely to buy the next phone from a competitor. So it seems like the incentive in the US should be to keep each phone updated for about 2 years so those who buy it within a few months of it coming out aren't extremely frustrated. Hopefully some cell companies will realize this.

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

Apple is the worst offender in the planned obsolescence scam. They are known to deprecate perfectly working hardware/software so they can sell their new shiny toys. Android is so much better because Cyanogen mod is always there.

ios 5 is horrible on the 3gs from what I have heard (http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/12/12/ios-5-on-iphone-3gs-things-have-been-getting-worse/).

It's funny how your comments read exactly like those from bonch - another low paid marketing drone who likes to lurk slashdot waiting to get first posts so he can bash Google. If I didn't know better I would think you two are the same person posting with different accounts.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said sir. The fact that HTC is having a hard time is a testament to the issues of the Android OEM model. As for the openness and all, that will only truly be seen when the OEMs are able to sell directly to the consumer without concern for the carrier. Perhaps we will see this once LTE becomes more ubiquitous. Since the GSM, CDMA structure currently in place seems to make it difficult to make one true world phone. The iPhone 4S is one, as an example, but Apple did a very dick move by blocking the AWS band that T-Mobile uses in the USA just so AT&T customers would not jump ship.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Fragmentation is a huge for users.

Actually, it's a huge tired talking point for the anti-Android contingent. Ask Stacy Valley-girl how much Android "fragmentation" effects her life and she will look at you like you've grown another neck. Why? Because she as well as 95 percent of Android users either don't freaking care or they don't want upgrades. Many Android users are first time smartphone buyers. Why should they go to sleep with one version and then wake up with something completely different? They are getting to understand their phone and actually feeling kind of cool and you want to pull the rug from beneath them? Why? So the less than 5 percent of nerds that care will stop whining? NEWS FLASH: Normal users don't care and normal users are who buy all the phones.

Re:It's the business model

[Overly Critical Guy]

It's bizarre for anyone to accuse Apple of deprecating perfectly working hardware/software (note that you don't give a single example) when there are about 150 Android handset models released per year, and phones that are only months old and won't get Android 4.0. Meanwhile the 2 1/2 year old iPhone 3GS can run iOS 4.0, yet you're accusing Apple of the worst planned obsolescence? So what if iOS 4.0 doesn't perform as well on the 3GS--it still runs on it if the customer chooses to install it. The carriers' business model is dependent on new phone models, so they don't want you to get upgrades.

Citing Cyanogen as a legitimate solution is absurd. Normal people shouldn't have to root their phones. Also, I don't care who you think I am or if you don't like to see Google get bashed. What does Google have to do with this?

Re:It's the business model

[tripleevenfall]

It's possible but unlikely. The Android phone business model guarantees that updates will be a mess. Putting Android updates on older phones decreases the likelihood that people will buy new phones, and it costs them support and engineering to put out an update.

Yes - the only reason to invest development time is to create revenue, and it's pretty hard to draw a straight line between a phone update and revenue - beyond generating loyalty from 1%ers like Slashdotters.

If all the glaring bugs and defects are fixed, the kinds of things that make the average subscriber say "this stupid phone" "my phone sucks" and switch carriers, then why would SprATTVerizonMobile invest expensive development hours in a handset, particularly after that handset is no longer being sold?

The carriers are wise to invest development hours in getting the very latest versions of Android on the very newest handsets only. This can be advertised and drive revenue.

It's an inherent weakness in the fragmented Android platform.

Re:It's the business model

[idobi]

Nothing requires you to update your 3gs to iOS5 - but you can if you want to. As opposed to an update not being available at all... Aside from providing an upgrade path, is Apple also suppose to hold back features that highlight their new models in an effort to prevent performance issues in older models?

Re:It's the business model

[tripleevenfall]

The carriers' defense against that is "early upgrades" are available 18 months into your 24 month contract. (AT&T openly advertises this on the website you sign into in order to pay your bill)

Most of the people you refer to will take the "early upgrade" (with a new 2-year commitment) at 18 months, rather than wait 6 more months to switch to a competitor. Thus, they never allow the customer to hit the open market, at least not without an early termination fee.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Citing Cyanogen as a legitimate solution is absurd.

I know, right? People actually taking control of their own devices instead of being at the convenience of their masters^H^H^H^H OEM's is absurd I tell you!

Re:It's the business model

[Overly Critical Guy]

Actually, it's a huge tired talking point for the anti-Android contingent. Ask Stacy Valley-girl how much Android "fragmentation" effects her life and she will look at you like you've grown another neck. Why? Because she as well as 95 percent of Android users either don't freaking care or they don't want upgrades.

She'll care when she sees that her friends have iPhones that can do things that the version of Android on her phone can't do, or when she can't run an app that needs so-and-so version (and possibly so-and-so hardware feature). You're acting as if fragmentation isn't already an issue for both developers and users. The iPhone tops Android smartphones in every customer satisfaction survey. Seamless experiences always win out in the end.

Why should they go to sleep with one version and then wake up with something completely different? They are getting to understand their phone and actually feeling kind of cool and you want to pull the rug from beneath them? Why? So the less than 5 percent of nerds that care will stop whining? NEWS FLASH: Normal users don't care and normal users are who buy all the phones.

I'm sorry, but this is dumb. You're making an argument against operating systems upgrades. Android 4.0 is supposed to deliver major performance enhancements and features that improve the performance of the devices it runs on. But heaven forbid we "pull the rug from beneath them" when they're "actually feeling kind of cool."

Re:It's the business model

[oakgrove]

We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles

Surely it didn't have anything to do with the game developers having much easier times enforcing their drm therefore just producing less for the PC and more for the consoles forcing gamers themselves to switch...

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

How do I know that Apple isn't intentionally making ios 4 run slowly on the 3GS so they'll make people upgrade? With Android I would know for sure - because the source code is available. A friend of mine took his 3GS to the apple store because the power button was acting up - it works only when pressed in a certain angle. The apple store people refused to fix it and asked him to upgrade to iPhone 4.

What does Google have to do with this

I hate to break this to you but the last time I checked Google develops Android.

I don't care about seeing Google bashed for legitimate reasons. In fact I would like to see that happen. But you're spreading misinformation here and I would like to see that stopped.

Re:It's the business model

[Kenja]

OEMs can and do sell directly to the consumer. However, most consumers are unwilling to pay the price of a phone without a carrier brand/lock. 849$ for an unlocked iPhone 4S with maximum storage direct from Apples store. Same kind of "deals" can be had for many Android phones, but most makers dont have an online store. Bottom line, without the carrier subsidy most people just dont want the things.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

he'll care when she sees that her friends have iPhones that can do things that the version of Android on her phone can't do

There are things that Android version 1.6 can do that iPhones to this day can't do and vice versa. That's a stupid argument. Got anything better?

or when she can't run an app that needs so-and-so version

Really, is taht the best you got? Over 95 (maybe it's 98) percent of Android phones run version 2.1 and better. All of the quality apps on the platform support Android to these versions.

The iPhone tops Android smartphones in every customer satisfaction survey. Seamless experiences always win out in the end.

Ha ha ha. Quoting customer satisfaction surveys? What's the margin of error? Who commissioned the survey? Since when does "customer satisfaction surveys" map 1 to 1 with sales? Answer: never. And if seamless experience and customer satisfaction wins "always", remind me of the relative market share between Windows and OSX again if you please. Hint: don't give up your day job and stop dabbling in marketing.

ndroid 4.0 is supposed to deliver major performance enhancements and features that improve the performance of the devices it runs on. But heaven forbid we "pull the rug from beneath them" when they're "actually feeling kind of cool."

You don't get it, son. Windows 7 delivers heaven and earth too but still many people are diehard xp users and will not upgrade until they buy a new computer. Normal users just want to make calls, browse the net, check their email and play angrytoads. All versions of Android do that that are sold on the market today. When people get a new phone, they'll be happy to embrace ics but until then, they just want to get on with their lives and "feel cool." Get out of your basement sometime, boy, and you'll learn something about regular people.

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

Aside from providing an upgrade path, is Apple also suppose to hold back features that highlight their new models in an effort to prevent performance issues in older models

Not at all. I was just responding to the OPs point that Apple's latest OS versions runs fine on two and a half year old hardware as opposed to Android. He is wrong because it doesn't.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Bottom line, without the carrier subsidy most people just dont want the things.

Bottom line, most people don't put a lot of thought into anything especially anything shiny, especially anything that requires planning. So they routinely pay more total for everything just because they couldn't handle the sticker shock of paying up-front for what they want. Banks, marketers, and carriers know this and love it.

Re:It's the business model

[halber_mensch]

Carriers don't want you to buy a new phone

Are you serious? Of course they do, they want you to buy a new phone every two years so you'll sign a new contract to get the subsidized price, thereby guaranteeing their profitability for a further two years each iteration. The manufacturers also want to be able to keep turning over more merchandise - that's the sole source of profit in the chain for them. Apple can be somewhat immune to these influences because the device is merely a gateway to iTunes and the App Store, which provide the consistent revenue. Apple would be pretty happy to know you've upgraded every phone along the line, but then they wouldn't be devastated if you didn't because you're still buying apps and music through them. But Samsung gets nothing from Google's market profits, their only hope each year is to put out The Next Big Awesome Android Phone at such a significant cost that customers will sign their contracts, carriers will subsidize the costs of the phones to keep the manufacturers providing new hotness to lure in more subsidized contract upgrades, and the whole circus will keep on running.

Re:It's the business model

[chrb]

Seamless experiences always win out over time.

Actually I think you'll find that "cheap and good enough" wins over time. See, for example, fast food, supermarkets, shoes, clothing, housing etc.

Re:It's the business model

[slyrat]

We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles

Surely it didn't have anything to do with the game developers having much easier times enforcing their drm therefore just producing less for the PC and more for the consoles forcing gamers themselves to switch...

It should also be noted that there has been a decent swing back to PCs lately. This is at least in part because of both the humble bundles and steam.

Re:It's the business model

[Zaiff Urgulbunger]

Seamless experiences always win out over time. We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles, and now the industry is shifting from desktops to mobile devices. Fragmentation is a huge for users.

I think you're right... but for consumers cheap > good. Mass market is always the cheaper product. In the case of consoles, they were - historically - cheaper than buying a PC for just for gaming, particularly decent gaming rigs, albeit I don't doubt ease of use would be a big factor.

Re:It's the business model

[tommy8]

But if someone is unhappy for 6 months they are less likely to take the early upgrade at the 18 month mark.

Re:It's the business model

[andydread]

HAHAHA I was thinking the exact same thing. is this Bonch sounds awfully like him. Comments loaded with Apple's talking points. "fragmentation blah blah" I don't understand how these drones don't realize the obvious transparency of their arguments.

Re:It's the business model

[MrMr]

Around here you can get an early upgrade from a competitor: get a new phone and finish your old contract...

Re:It's the business model

[Galestar]

Mod Parent up - I was surprised the OP's shill wasn't written by bonch too.

Re:It's the business model

[dbcad7]

Had two brothers and a niece and nephew in town for Christmas.. They all have Android phones (as do I), as part of breakfast conversation I asked them if they were on Gingerbread.. none of them knew what that was, or what Froyo was, or what Eclair was., or that Ice Cream Sandwich was released and should be coming soon., We had four different models on 3 different carriers (2 different EVOS, Fascinate, Sensation).. there was nothing someone else had app wise that any of us could not get if we wanted.. In truth, although we all used our phones at times, other than directly asking to see their phone none of would have known what the other had.. no one said they liked anothers phone better than theirs.. there was more talk of the carrier differences than there was about phone models.. The reality of fragmentation is that it's not a big deal that some people would make it.. I also have a phone on Froyo that I assume will never go beyond it, but I got my 2 years out of it, and it is in a drawer as a backup phone.. Now the iPhone crowd car harp on the 3GS getting updates beyond the 2 and a half years, but the same type of enthusuuast, that would care, would also upgrade within that time. My 2 year old phone in the drawer had the same number of updates as the 3GS.. The Galaxy S that this article is about, has also had the same number of updates as the 3GS, and in over a year less time.

Re:It's the business model

[BasilBrush]

How do I know that Apple isn't intentionally making ios 4 run slowly on the 3GS so they'll make people upgrade?

How do you know there aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden?

With such weak-minded questions have stupid people convinced themselves of what they want to believe since time immemorial.

With Android I would know for sure - because the source code is available.

No you wouldn't know for sure, because it takes hours even to compile. You'd have to code review it all to be sure there are no intentional slow downs, and even in the vanishingly unlikely possibility that you had the breadth of expertise to understand it all, you don't have the time to properly review that much code.

Re:It's the business model

[wzinc]

Coming from what I know - because I own a 3GS - iOS 5 is great.

Also, coming from what I know, since I was forced to do Android dev work, is that, other than Nexus phones, the official upgrade path is non-existent. Of course, yes, there is always Cyanogenmod. Which would be fine; I'll even say that I would probably be happy with an Android, since I could do Cyanogen. However, a lot of these consumers couldn't even program a VCR, let alone install custom firmware. Most don't even know Cyanogen exists.

Android would be a lot more effective in the long-run if the Nexus phones were the only official models.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

So, mod, who do you work for? Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola? Who?

Re:It's the business model

[mwvdlee]

Actually, the article you refer to is very positive about IOS 5 on 3GS. It's the 5.0.1 update specifically that it has problems with. Wait and see what 5.0.2 or so brings.
I'm not much of an Apple fan, and don't plan to ever buy any of their products but there are some things they do right. Software updates seems to be one of them.

Re:It's the business model

[tripleevenfall]

I'm not saying you didn't hear that iOS5 is horrible on the 3GS, but I have heard the opposite - that it actually works very well.

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

Are you equating fairies to the very real possibility of planned obsolescence from Apple?

Also I tend to use common sense a lot. So if the source code is available (for Android specifically and Linux in general), I review some parts of it and I trust the community to review other parts. I also use this concept called Logic - you should try it out sometime because here is an example of something amazing that it could do - prove that I don't have to worry about Android source. Are you ready? Here we go: Logically if there is malicious code in Android, since it is open source there's a real and finite possibility that it will be found by some one at which point there will be a tremendous backlash for Google resulting in them losing a lot. So (again logically speaking) Google would probably not add any malicious code.

No such guarantees from Apple unfortunately.

Re:It's the business model

[iluvcapra]

Of course they do, they want you to buy a new phone every two years so you'll sign a new contract to get the subsidized price, thereby guaranteeing their profitability for a further two years each iteration.

They want to keep you from churning to the competitor, but their ideal scenario would have you using the same handset for as many months as physically possible. They handsets are expensive, because, as you say, they subsidize them at no cost to the subscriber. OS upgrades are approximately as bad for carriers, because they require as much development and support effort as a whole new handset SKU, but unlike a new phone, an upgrade doesn't cause subscribers to sign a new contract.

Re:It's the business model

[zerojoker]

I bought a HTC Magic. The Magic was released roughly the time when the 3GS was introduced, and has comparable hardware.

I am on contract with NTT Docomo. Officially the Magic is stuck here at 1.6. By flashing Cyanogenmod, I could get up to 2.2.1. Some at XDA have made 2.3.3. available, but it is slow and unstable. Updating has the risk of bricking the device. Very like, it will never see 4.0.

Considering the price, I did not even save any money.

The update experience on Android is simply a joke. My next smartphone will be anything but Android. Windows Phone 7, iOS, heck even Blackberry will give me less trouble.

Re:It's the business model

[noh8rz2]

Ask Stacy Valley-girl how much Android "fragmentation" effects her life and she will look at you like you've grown another neck -beard .

FTFY!

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you equating fairies to the very real possibility of planned obsolescence from Apple?

Yes, he was. Do you know why? Because there's as much evidence for one as there is for the other. For every blog post you cite of a guy claiming to have insider knowledge about Apple's business practices, I can cite ten second-hand stories that "prove" that fairies exist. Unfortunately, a few guys running their mouths and waving their arms about conspiracy theories doesn't take the place of real evidence.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

How much control are we talking? You get your rooted, Ice Cream Sandwich running device that has a malfunctioning GPS, camera, or market.

I could not care less about an official update from a manufacturer, but Android will forever be a joke as an "open source" version of mobile freedom until manufacturers make drivers available for all their hardware. No one needs a full public release upgrade (alpha, beta and public tested!) of their operating system from the manufacturer. The community already gets together and builds updates for devices, but they lack the necessary bits to truly make them work correctly.

Just give us the damn drivers and let us fend for ourselves. Running android is the proverbial two wolves and a sheep arguing about dinner and I fucking hate it.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you equating fairies to the very real possibility of planned obsolescence from Apple?

Pretty sure GP is saying you aren't being logical (which is funny considering you subsequently went on about using logic)

In logic, you present premises and logic (argument) to form a conclusion. Both premises and argument have to be sound

With regards to "the very real possibility of planned obsolescence from Apple", your premise is, apparently, that Android's source is open while Apple's is not. While there's no denying of the fact (that one's open and the other is not), it is a logical leap to say that Apple has a "very real possibility of planned obsolescence"

It's a false dichotomy to split the world into "open and safe" with "closed and (very real possibility of) planned obsolescence". Consider this: none of us are "open sourced" here - our real names and identities are hidden (especially me with my AC status). Does that mean we're all insincere and disingenuous? One would wonder why we're even allowed to post anonymously or at all if the Internet isn't regulated to an extent which makes SOPA look meek.

Mind you, I'm not sure how planned obsolescence has anything to do with the OP's point that for Android, their business model is to sell phones (whereas Apple still makes money from their app store and music store). What you're doing is diverting attention away from talking about Android, to bashing Apple.

For all your crying about M$/Appl shills (you're not the only one looking at people's post histories), you're making yourself look like an Android/Google shill with each and every post here.

Re:It's the business model

[forkfail]

That's short term gain vs long term sustainable gain.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the "swing" has more to do with the fact that we're near the end of the current generation of consoles

I'm not saying "PC will die when next gen comes", but that it's cyclical and goes back and forth.

That said, I suspect F2P will become the path of least resistance for PC gaming in the future. So not everything will remain the same.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad to see that this comment hasn't been down-modded into oblivion by the Android fanbois. It is really sad that a mediocre product like Android has gained so much market share just because that big hypocrite known as Andy Rubin managed to convince Larry and Serge to invest in his crappy product. The only reason why Android has been successful is because of Google's backing. If you are a real geek you would be using a Maemo/Meego device, not that hacked together turd running on a bastardized version of Java.

--
I'm an arrogant asshole, so I work for Google now.

Re:It's the business model

[chrb]

How is the Walmart etc. pile 'em high sell 'em cheap" business model short-term and unsustainable? It would appear that the model can be sustained as long as we have natural resources and cheap mass manufacturing. The mass market will only gravitate to a premium product if cost is no consideration. Otherwise we'd all be driving BMWs...

Re:It's the business model

[swillden]

But if someone is unhappy for 6 months they are less likely to take the early upgrade at the 18 month mark.

Or more likely to take the upgrade as soon as they can get it. A few months of frustration might be just what's needed to get them to watch that upgrade date and jump on it as soon as they can.

Re:It's the business model

[flurp]

you sir, are a moron.

Re:It's the business model

[tixxit]

Unfortunately, I think you are bang on the money. My phone had one software update 6 months in and then HTC EOL'd it. The touch screen has been replaced twice (and it has broken again). The phone just hit 2 years old.

In Canada, the standard term is 3 years. That is, they price phones like so: $600 w/ no contract, $550 w/ 1 year, $500 w/ 2 year, $50 w/ 3 year. It would still cost me $240 to buy out of my last year of this contract and $120 (!!) just to "upgrade" the phone and renew my contract.

Re:It's the business model

[forkfail]

The difference between Walmart and say a high end smart phone is expectations.

When you buy a smart phone with a two year contract, you expect the functionality to work throughout the lifespan of the product, and you rather expect that it will be supported by both the telecom and by the hardware manufacturer, including updates, during the period of the standard two year contract. This includes software upgrades.

With Walmart, you know you aren't buying high end. You don't expect the tools to be Snapon quality, nor the boots to last 3++ years, nor the furniture to be handed down to your kids.

But hey - if Samsung wants to market themselves as "Walmart-esque junk that we won't support for more than a year", its their choice. Its also my choice to switch hardware vendors.

Re:It's the business model

[drb226]

Seamless experiences always win out over time. We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles.

Wait, what? When did that "shift" occur? Sure, consoles have been going online, which naturally means that some online gamers might have switched to consoles to play online, and some console players might have started to play online, but I'm calling [citation needed] on this supposedly significant "shift". "From desktop to mobile" is hugely misleading, as most people/companies aren't throwing out their desktops in favor of their mobile device.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Although I've just upgraded to a 4S, I ran iOS5 (5.0 and 5.01) on my iPhone 3GS and it runs absolutely fine. Certainly as well as iOS4 and the original iOS3 that the phone arrived with. My mum has 3GS now and loves it.

Re:It's the business model

[Anne Thwacks]

Unfortunately, a few guys running their mouths and waving their arms about conspiracy theories doesn't take the place of real evidence.

You must be new here.

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

Can you point to the place where I said Apple's planned obsolescence follows logically from their closed source model? Oh what's that? I did not say that? You don't say...

How about you go back and read my post a little more carefully before trying to refute my arguments? I said Android's open source model leads logically to a lack of planned obsolescence whereas you can't be sure of that with Apple's closed source model. That's it. I didn't claim anything else followed anything else logically.

For all your crying about M$/Appl shills (you're not the only one looking at people's post histories), you're making yourself look like an Android/Google shill with each and every post here.

You know that would make a lot of sense only if all these idiots (not that you are one) don't willfully misinterpret my posts and then post arguments refuting that misinterpreted statements. If from my post history you deduced that I like open source software, you're probably smart. But your accusations make me wonder about your motives as well.

btw you should probably lookup false dichotomy when you get a chance.

Re:It's the business model

[greentshirt]

It is more accurate to say that an iPhone 3GS MUST upgrade to the latest version of iOS to maintain full iTunes functionality and in the process begins to run significantly slower. This is a forced upgrade which reduces the user experience which brings a lot of customers into carriers saying "my phones old and runs like shit I need a new iPhone please." Hardly the picture of rosey perfection.

As for Android, I haven't ran stock firmware on mine for ages. I'm already running the Cyanogenmod ICS build on my phone and it runs great. For the average customer who doesn't give a crap, stock firmware and OTA updates are fine. For those who want stronger/better/faster, Android allows for insane amounts of homebrew builds to chose from.

As for the user experience, much of Android remains the same between hardware providers. Sure the Sony themed Android looks different than the Motorolo themed Android but at the end of the day a user can make a seamless transition across and between several manufacturers and in the end isn't tied into one brand and one phone. The users Android market purchases stay with them and can be installed again on the new phone. The Android ecosystem severely reduces the necessity of being bound to a single hardware manufacturer which is always better for the customer. Give it a few more years and no customer would willing go back to the days of yore. In fact, this is precisely why Blackberry, Microsoft and Apple have taken the battle to the courts instead of leaving it to the marketplace and allowing customers to dictate the future of mobile. Android = good for customers, both geeky and non.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Bottom line, most people don't put a lot of thought into anything especially anything shiny, especially anything that requires planning. So they routinely pay more total for everything just because they couldn't handle the sticker shock of paying up-front for what they want. Banks, marketers, and carriers know this and love it.

Really? I don't see how it's cheaper to spend $600 for an unlocked phone then $80/month vs $120 for a phone w/ 2yr contract then $80/month. I don't know of any carrier in the US that gives you a discount when you bring a phone to them.

Re:It's the business model

[Anne Thwacks]

beyond generating loyalty from 1%ers like Slashdotters

Spoken like a true PHB.

Many people, including IBM, have learned the hard way: you have to please the nerds, cos they are the people the others go to for advice.

Obviously not the only people they go to for advice - some people ask Kim Kardasian, some ask famous rappers, and others ask "My Little Pony". Some don't understand the answer they get from a nerd anyway.

However, the people that ask the nerds are usually the ones responsible for bulk purchasing for corporations.

Any conmpany which makes its purchasing recommendations on the basis of "My Little Pony" will probably go out of business before it pays for the product.

Re:It's the business model

[LordLucless]

It's possible but unlikely. The Android phone business model guarantees that updates will be a mess [zdnet.com]

No, no it doesn't. If you want an apples to apples (no pun intended) comparison, you need to compare the iPhone (sold by the makers of iOS) to the Nexus S (sold by the makers of Android). The Nexus S is the first phone to betting the ICS upgrade. Nexus S is an Android phone. That demonstrates that the problem of messy upgrades isn't a problem with Android per se. It's a problem with hardware providers adding their own stuff on top of Android. Which is why I bought the Nexus S instead of the Galaxy - I didn't want to be beholden to Samsung for all their junk.

In the end, it's all about choice. If you want straight-up Android, you buy Google's vanilla Android devices. If you'd rather get another manufacturer's take on Android, knowing that you'll be at their mercy for upgrades, by a Samsung or a HTC. If you want vanilla Android on third-party hardware, buy it and put Cynogen on it, knowing that it's unsupported.

Note that that's two more choices than Apple gives you. I'm on Android because I like choices. The flipside is, you have to live with your choices, and not bitch because you didn't do enough research/thinking before making them.

Re:It's the business model

[BasilBrush]

The reality of fragmentation is that it's not a big deal that some people would make it..

No, it just means that you don't realise what the problems of fragmentation are.

Fragmentation affects developers. It means they either have to maintain many different versions of their software, put work into making the app auto-configure for many different devices and test it on all of those devices, program for the lowest common denominator, or make apps that don't work on a proportion of phones.

Developers do a mix of those solutions, and the result is that users generally get worse apps or apps with more bugs in, or apps that don't work for them at all.

Separate from that is the issue that newer OS version incorporate security fixes, so by not getting updates, you end up with a less secure phone.

As to your equivalent "number of updates", that would be a pretty irrelevant metric even if true. For example an OS vendor shipping one small update every day wouldn't be better than one doing a far more substantial update quarterly. They'd just be a pain in the neck.

Your contention that the Galaxy S's Android v2.1x -> 2.2x -> 2.3x is somehow better than the 3GS's: iOS 3.x -> 4.x to 5.x is stupid.

It's the length of time for which updates are supplied that's the significant factor, not the number of updates. Even if the Galaxy did have more (and it didn't.)

Re:It's the business model

[tepples]

I think the "swing" has more to do with the fact that we're near the end of the current generation of consoles

Among the three major console makers, only Nintendo has announced the end of the current generation with the Wii U. For fans of the genres popular on Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3, it might be wise to check out the fourth console: Acer Aspire X1.

In my opinion, some of the swing toward PCs comes from the fact that the primary advantage consoles have over PCs, namely the fact that their typically* larger monitors lend themselves to cheap local multiplayer,** has become less important over time as publishers have realized they can sell more copies to each household by eliminating shared-screen multiplayer in favor of Internet multiplayer.

* Owning a home theater PC is still atypical in 2011.

** Screen-peeking is not a disadvantage in cooperative multiplayer or in complete-information genres such as fighting games or Bomberman/Custom Robo style games.

Re:It's the business model

[SomePgmr]

I honestly think Apple just doesn't pay much attention to performance on the old, old devices when they release new ios updates. They focus on the new devices and make sure ios "works" for any model they allow installations on.

When they released the 4x series for the 3g's, it slowed them to an unusable crawl, but it worked. Of course that update was optional, but folks still said (I probably did too) that Apple must have meant to make the old handsets unusable to encourage new device purchases.

I don't think that's really the case. I think they just avoid spending a lot of time worrying about optimizing ios for old devices.

Re:It's the business model

[brentrad]

I have had similar experiences with those I work with. It's only bleeding-edge specialized apps that require a specific phone to run - the vast majority of apps are written so that anyone with any Android phone can run them. It's not in the app developer's best interest to write an app that only works on one or two phones - it's in their best interest to write apps so that they run on the widest variety of phones possible.

No non-geeks have any idea about what version of Android is running on their phones. Most of them are coming from feature phones, where there are zero updates after you buy the phone, so they don't expect to get the next major version. I think this issue is being vastly overblown by the geek community - and the fact that Android phones now have over 50% of the smartphone market to iOS's 29% share seems to suggest that this is just not a concern to the majority of smartphone buyers:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/14/shocker-android-grew-us-market-share-after-q2-ios-was-static/

On the other hand, I care greatly about what new OS updates I will get on my phone - and that's why I just got a Galaxy Nexus.

Do I think fragmentation is an issue? Yes, and I would like all manufacturers guarantee at least 2 years of OS updates. Do I think fragmentation is going to have any effect in the real world on smartphone sales? Not at all, unless regular users see regular updates and get used to getting them. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

From my point of view the Android update experience is seamless, quick and painless. I've got a Nexus S, and have been running ICS for a while now.

The point is that comparing the "update experience" of an operating system is pointless when you really want to compare phones. Your HTC Magic sucked compared to 3GS. I don't think my Nexus S will, but time will tell.

Re:It's the business model

[brentrad]

Seamless experiences always win out over time. We saw it when gaming shifted from PCs to consoles, and now the industry is shifting from desktops to mobile devices. Fragmentation is a huge for users.

Seamless experiences always win out over time...really? That must be why general purpose WinTel PCs have failed so miserably in the market over the last 20 years. (Gaming on PCs is a very small segment of the overall PC market.)

Re:It's the business model

[chrb]

The average person upgrades their phone every 14 months, so your comparison to a Walmart buyer who only expects 3 years service isn't that far from the truth. Most people don't make buying decisions based on software updates. It may be annoying to us geeks, but that doesn't make it less true. Look at the iPhone 3g, software updates were killed while some users were still on 2 year contracts, but it didn't seem to affect future sales figures.

Re:It's the business model

[MrHanky]

For their computers, sure, but for phones, that's simply untrue. Planned obsolescence is part of Apple's phone business as well, but all the Android pushers are far worse. I've been looking at the Motorola Defy+ lately, then I noticed the older and slightly slower Defy (nonplus) isn't even updated to Gingerbread, despite being practically identical to the Defy+. It's also locked up tight so that the nice CyanogenMod will have to run on the not so nice Froyo kernel. And when the bootloader isn't locked and encrypted, the kernel depends on all sorts of binary blob bullshit, meaning you're stuck with an antiquated kernel anyway.

I'm not sure whether Motorola is the worst offender, I'm just saying at least Apple isn't even close to their level of shittiness.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

For contrast, note that the 2 1/2 year old iPhone 3GS can run the latest version of iOS because Apple maintains strict control over the hardware platform to the benefit of the customer

Since when has vendor lock-in been about benefiting the customer? Apple just want's to ensure that you keep buying their products, and they have brainwashed their sheep well. They even go so far as to ban competing products from their app store (anti-trust anyone?).

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Fragmentation will no longer be an issue once ICS is the dominant version of Android.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, so let me get this straight. You're saying Apple only stops supporting phones for software updates when the hardware can't support it, but if an Android device manufacturer stops supporting the hardware for software updates it's the business model.

So this suggests either Apple is shit at business, or you're claiming Android manufacturers are more malicious and anti-consumer than Apple.

Alternatively, you could just be making up excuses for your pet brand whilst slagging off the brands you don't like. Which, let's be honest, is really what the situation is.

Seriously, you're being a fanboy. You can't on one hand say the companies are being twats, then make excuses for your favourite brand when they do the exact same thing. Android devices stop getting updates when it's no longer worth updating the device, just as with Apple devices. I learnt this the hard way because I was one of those whiny users who wanted his HTC Magic to get Android 2+, I whined and moaned on the Vodafone forums and eventually they gave it to us. Well guess what? Vodafone knew better after all, it made my phone run like shit.

Samsung not supporting a device that isn't capable of decently utilising a new software update is no different than Apple refusing to support iOS5 on the iPhone 3G. Sure this sort of thing happens more often on Android, but that's because iPhones are premium phones, they're more expensive devices and so the hardware remains capable for longer, whilst many Android devices are low end, and it'd be foolish to assume they can keep uptodate with the latest software as long as premium phones can. So of course phones that are only a few months old wont get Android 4, you can't expect a $100 ZTE handset to necessarily run the latest and greatest anymore than you'd expect a budget range iPhone to do the same if Apple ever released one (which is probably a good reason they don't).

It's not really rocket science, there's no conspiracy, it is what it is. Phones that can handle upgrades get them, phones that can't don't, and it doesn't matter who your favourite manufacturer is, it's the same throughout.

Re:It's the business model

[mspohr]

Very true.
In spite of all of the heated discussion here, most people don't know or care about software upgrades. They bought a phone, it works, when it gets all beat up they'll buy another (and fall for the "free phone" scam again).

Re:It's the business model

[quacking duck]

iOS 4.x on the iPhone 3G was a botch job. It couldn't do multitasking, and realistically all you got was app folders and you could change the homescreen background image. For that, 3G users suffered extreme performance issues and laggy input response times. Even on the 3GS (which I had), it wasn't until later updates that mostly restored the responsiveness.

iOS5 on the 3GS was a very good update. Gained new features and actually gained a bit of speed and responsiveness back. Battery life suffered, but I was willing to put up with that in exchange for not losing responsiveness.

Re:It's the business model

[mspohr]

You can get cheap plans from ATT and TMobile and others as well as a few resellers for $40 or $50 per month for unlimited talk, text and data. You can save $40 a month x 24 months so your "free" phone actually costs $960. Most people have contract plans that cost more than $80 a month so are paying even more.
Most people don't seem to be able to do this simple math.

Re:It's the business model

[dbcad7]

Your contention that the Galaxy S's Android v2.1x -> 2.2x -> 2.3x is somehow better than the 3GS's: iOS 3.x -> 4.x to 5.x is stupid.

I didn't say it was better.. I said it was the same number in less time.. and there are also incremental updates for security and bug fixes besides the version updates, even on older versions that you seem to think are abandoned.. As to the developers woes, well they seem to be doing a good job if the majority of people don't know there is a problem.

Re:It's the business model

[mrchaotica]

Cyanogen mod is always there.

Sure, if you had the money to burn to get a flagship phone and an overpriced contract. Those of us who don't enjoy being fucked over, on the other hand, use things like the Samsung Intercept and still don't have Cyanogenmod support almost 2 years after the damn phone was released!

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

God, the Apple mods are out in force today.

How do you know there aren't fairies at the bottom of your garden?

It doesn't get any simpler than this. Because WE CAN SEE THE FUCKING SOURCE CODE, and YOU CAN'T.

Do you also not believe in evolution, chemistry, and physics because you, personally, don't have time to read every book available on the subjects?

Re:It's the business model

[scot4875]

Fragmentation affects developers. It means they either have to maintain many different versions of their software, put work into making the app auto-configure for many different devices and test it on all of those devices, program for the lowest common denominator, or make apps that don't work on a proportion of phones.

You're either not a developer or not a good one. I've "dealt" with fragmentation in Android applications, and it takes all of half a day to research how to handle it effectively and 15 minutes to implement -- unless you have a really shitty spaghetti codebase.

Also, most apps don't use the kinds of features that would be affected by fragmentation anyway, so the point is beyond moot.

--Jeremy

Re:It's the business model

[BasilBrush]

You're either not a developer or not a good one. I've "dealt" with fragmentation in Android applications, and it takes all of half a day to research how to handle it effectively and 15 minutes to implement

ROFL. You just proved you're not a (good) developer. And maybe hinted at another of the reasons Android apps tend to be shit. You didn't give a single thought to the time and expense of testing on multiple devices and OS versions for a start.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

In Canada it's 3 years, and the subsidy phones aren't really discounted. Just look at rogers.com website for the iPhone 3GS, 4 and 4S and then compare it to AT&T in the US. In some promos the iPhone4 and 3GS are the SAME price.

Android is doomed to be a poor platform to develop for, because all the phones sold last month people are now stuck with until Christmas 2014 in Canada and 2013 in the US. If I buy the NEWEST iPhone, I'm pretty much gauranteed that it will last the life of the 3 Year contract. If I buy Android, just look at Samsung as pointed out in this article, it's already obsolete. What a piece of crap.

Re:It's the business model

[RobbieCrash]

Yes, the 2.5 year old iPhone is running an old release of iOS, with the possibility of running a crippled version of the latest iOS. Currently the 2 year old Galaxy S is running an old version of Android, and is going to get a crippled version of the latest OS in the next few months.

It's absurd to think that to get all the latest features in a device you should have to buy a new one! Why, just look at Siri! It's available on the first generation iPhone!

Re:It's the business model

[RobbieCrash]

http://www.geeksphone.com/en/soporte/descargas/drivers.php#

Re:It's the business model

[thegarbz]

I asked them if they were on Gingerbread.. none of them knew what that was

This right here says it all. I can't watch TV for 5 minutes without some advert for the iPhone 4S coming up showing off the new features of Siri. I can't open a magazine without reading about all the things that have changed in iOS5. But I haven't a clue what changed in ICS. I installed ICS on my Galaxy S and I still didn't have a clue. I actually went out to google what the changes were, and you know what, it was incredibly anti-climatic.

Apple's changes to iOS typically amount to some huge new killer feature, or a massive change to be brought to Apple devices everywhere. Cut-and-Paste being the one classic example. Yet I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between an old Galaxy S running Eclair, and the latest running Gingerbread other than the improved responsiveness from the UI which had nothing to do with Android and everything to do with Samsung finally fixing their horrendous RFS implementation.

Android updates often amount to some killer feature that maybe affects one or two phones. Google Wallet? How about NFC support? Doesn't affect me since I don't have that in my phone. There seems to be more going on under the hood in Android updates than on the surface, and vendors often apply their own UI on top as well (e.g. TouchWiz from Samsung). This also causes things to stop working for some apps, so while Apple fans go mental over the iOS updates to the point where Apple's servers nearly have a meltdown, the early adopters of ICS seem to find more broken stuff on their phone while app writers go out and fix their bugs.

Re:It's the business model

[marnues]

You need to know that common sense is a ridiculous call to name yourself an authority leading into the well-known fallacy. You should also be weary of making inference where you do not intend. You clearly implied that Apple's planned obsolescence follows from their closed-source model. This is precisely because ./ readers are expect to apply some form of logic to posts rather than just assuming stream of consciousness statements. A third recommendation would be that if you ever feel the need to call someone out on their logic, you should give your own posts an open-minded read. You may have found your own mistakes before looking the bigger fool.

Re:It's the business model

[rtb61]

Well, you know what, that is the benefit of Android, you don't have to buy Motorola, you can 'CHOOSE' from a whole range of manufacturers a whole range of products. Want 'Ice cream Sandwich' then choose wisely http://www.engadget.com/updates/which-devices-will-get-ice-cream-sandwich/.

I tell you one thing though 'iOS' meh who cares, watch out it may wipe out your phone. 'Ice cream Sandwich' why not my phone, I want it now. Not that I have either phone but that's the general vibe coming off the net, you know what that means, Apple is screwed and every Android manufacturers is going to bend over backwards to get 'Icrecream Sandwich' squeezed onto the devices lest that not keep up with the other manufacturers and customer desires.

Of course they were big the balance of trying to get away with 'Icecream Sandwich' only on high priced items and only upgrading higher priced old product, to jelp drive selection of high priced models. Of course budget targeted manufacturers will use this opportunity to drive their phones with the latest OS.

Now you can really see the advantage to consumer of an open OS, choice and competition.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Not entirely correct. Carriers want you to keep paying. If you call in every month demanding a free phone, you won't get one, and the carrier will be happy to dump you. If you never upgrade your phone, and you're out of contract, the carrier will keep tempting you with a free phone, even if it's the worst piece of crap out there. They expect you jump at "free" meanwhile the free phones cost them very little to subsidize. 7 years ago, if you wanted a Windows Mobile, Blackberry or a Treo for free, you were laughed at unless you were a Microsoft employee. Even then that was under old AT&T Wireless's Business branch which was a whole other world. Business customers (company employees) could ask for some pretty silly stuff and get it if their telecom manager approved it. Post Cingular all the business deals were effectively axed, now you know why AT&T was losing marketshare until the iPhone. No more carrot's for business users. Oh and don't think they switched to Verizon either, Verizon is pretty much "no bulk discounts for you, who are you going to switch to? LOL."

Re:It's the business model

[StripedCow]

And, if only for environmental reasons, governments should force manufacturers and operators out of this business model.

Because if phones were "open", the community would develop its own software (OS) updates, and people would be far less inclined to buy new phones every couple of years.

Re:It's the business model

[NicknameOne]

I did not imply that planned obsolescence follows from closed source. If *you* find my previous statements ambiguous then by all means clarify by asking me what I meant. I've repeatedly clarified what I meant yet you still attack the wrong interpretation which makes your final sentence a little ironic. Slashdot is full of idiots that can't read apparently.

Re:It's the business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Everyone is an idiot except for you.

Re:It's the business model

[AmiMoJo]

Actually the HTC Magic has been officially updated to 2.2. If you didn't get it then perhaps it is because of NTT Docomo, but HTC and most carriers offer it. That is what you get for buying a carrier branded phone though, and it isn't really a fair comparison because the iPhone is not carrier branded.

Android 2.2 on the Magic is pretty comparable to the current state of the iPhone 3GS. Not all the latest stuff is supported, but most of it is. As it happens I sold a HTC Hero to a friend with Cyanogen 2.3 on it and it was faster than the official HTC 2.2 ROM and rock solid.

Android updates tend to be similar to the iPhone as long as you don't make the mistake of getting a carrier branded phone. I don't know why anyone would because the non-branded ones bundled with a contract via a 3rd party vendor are always cheaper. Maybe you don't have that in the US, but in the UK I am on Vodafone but got a stock Galaxy S and 5 quid off the normal contract price from Phones 4 U.

Or if you really want to be sure and compare like-for-like get a Google Nexus phone. My next phone will be one of those I think.

Re:It's the business model

[AmiMoJo]

Carriers don't want you to buy a new phone; they want you to pay a monthly bill. Android gives the carriers control over your phone.

Only if you buy a carrier branded phone. Do they force you to do that in the US? In the UK you can get a stock phone and the same contract at a lower price via a 3rd party shop like Phones 4 U or Carphone Warehouse. In fact I know you can get Google Nexus phones in the US so you must have the option to buy non-branded phones.

Re:It's the business model

[AmiMoJo]

Android would be a lot more effective in the long-run if the Nexus phones were the only official models.

The reason Android is so effective is that the Nexus phones are not the only official models. Apple can only sell to a limited section of the market who want and are willing to pay for a high end smartphone, where as Android covers right from the 40 quid contact free supermarket bargain end to the bleeding edge super phone and tablet end. The cheap end might not get many updates, might not even have the option to install apps, but it still means there is one more Android user defaulting to Google's services.

Blame manufacturers for crappy phones and lack of updates, not Android.

Re:It's the business model

[damiangerous]

Of course, yes, there is always Cyanogenmod

Cyanogenmod isn't actually supported on the Galaxy S sold in the US.

meh

[stoolpigeon]

I bought an unlocked Galaxy S not too long after they came out. I love it, but the GPS is broken*. I don't believe any software update will ever fix it. So now I'm just waiting for a phone that I consider to be a suitable replacement at a decent price point. I like the Galaxy S II - and the new Nexus. I figure at some point next year I will think about pulling the trigger.

*It takes forever to settle on a location and when it finally does get it one it is with an accuracy of +/- half a kilometer or more. This makes it essentially useless for navigation.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, you have a shitty phone but that's no reason to splatter your brains all over the wall.

Re:meh

[Brian Feldman]

Early builds had insufficiently-fastened GPS antennae that mostly did not work.

Re:meh

[stoolpigeon]

down range always - though I live in Europe now so it's all figurative. My guns are locked up back in the U.S.

How about the Galaxy Player?

[ckblackm]

Does anyone know if the Galaxy Player will get an ICS update? thanks, Christopher.

Wasn't the GPS issue fixed?

[thegoldenear]

Wasn't that issue fixed by an update some months after it came out? It was supposed to have been. What version of Android are you on now? 2.3.3 is available for it and eventually you'll be able to get 4.0 using cyanogenmod.

Re:Wasn't the GPS issue fixed?

[Desler]

No it actually wasn't fixed despite their claims. Also cyanogenmod dropped support for the vibrant so no ICS from them.

Re:Wasn't the GPS issue fixed?

[mrbester]

Have you tried CM7 with an updated radio? 2.3.7 with JVK works fine for me with 15s GPS lock.

Re:Wasn't the GPS issue fixed?

[forkfail]

Hard to fix a hardware problem with software.

This phone has provided me with no end of frustration. It's a $500 phone that I'm paying another eight bucks a month for warranty for over my two year contract, meaning I'll wind up paying a total of $700 for a phone that doesn't work right. And t-mobile wants to give me a $150 clique in replacement.

Some links follow.

It's a hardware problem in a number of phones:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=878970

http://pocketnow.com/android/hardware-fix-for-vibrants-gps-problems

T-mobile did push out a patch:

http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-vibrant-gps-fix-finally-being-pushed-out-by-t-mobile

But it didn't actually do the upgrade. No, you have to turn off your computer's firewall and virus protection to apply software patches to hardware problems...

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/SupportOwnersFAQPopup.do?faq_id=FAQ00026061&fm_seq=26229

for a patch that doesn't work anyway...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=988076

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1661605-Vibrant-Problems-Please-post-all-here-so-Samsung-Google-Engineers-can-see-them/page4

Re:fandroids love getting buttfuckef

[Kenja]

Vulgar insults that make you look like a child aside. My first generation Motorola Drioid has also gotten updated frequently, its all in what you buy. Oh, and hows Siri running on your 3GS? Don't pretend that Apple doesn't try to get people to upgrade perfectly usable phones.

Where is consumer protection?

[sgt scrub]

This is a big reason why OEM's should not be able to lock devices from user upgrades. If a company decides to no longer support a device, is the customer's right to continue to use the device in a secure way revoked? Having to go through a process of rooting a device that has a limited life span so it can be kept up to date weakens the user's ability to protect themselves. They should release something which allow users to maintain the device themselves.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[MightyYar]

is the customer's right to continue to use the device in a secure way revoked?

Right to use the device in a secure way? Who granted you that right? There are probably some states that give you a little implied warranty protection for a limited duration of time, but that's it as far as rights go unless you signed a contract.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[__aaltlg1547]

When you buy hardware, you get the right to use that hardware in any way that doesn't violate the law. That includes loading a new operating system on it, if it's capable. They should be required to provide you with a procedure to unlock any protections you want to unlock so that you have full access to the hardware. When you buy a smart phone it should also include an implied right that the service provider's system won't be changed in such a way that your phone will become incompatible with the system for some time -- at least your contract term. But it doesn't include the right to eternal support or any guarantee that the company will help you upgrade it.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[MightyYar]

They should be required to provide you with a procedure to unlock any protections you want to unlock so that you have full access to the hardware.

I disagree. A company is under no obligation other than to sell you the device as is, so long as the condition of the device is not falsely represented. If it was locked-down when you bought it, you have absolutely no reason to expect them to open it up in the future - nor should they be required to. If you want an open device, then buy an open device.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[sgt scrub]

Who granted you that right?

Some long haired founding father dude.

Bill of Rights Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[MightyYar]

You interpret the amendment meant to protect against an authoritarian government depriving you of property to mean that you get a service contract free with a phone purchase??? That's even more amazing to me than simply feeling entitled to such a contract.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[sgt scrub]

The amendment isn't about the right to own property. An amendment wasn't needed for that right. It is the right to be secure in person, property, privacy, and protection from the law. You asked what gives people the right to security. I thought I would start at the top.

Re:Where is consumer protection?

[MightyYar]

The amendment isn't about the right to own property.

Most of it is - only the "persons" part doesn't concern property - the other 3 enumerated items are all property protections.

You said it yourself - this is about protection from the law, not protection from some random Russian hacker.

what I dont get

[Muramas95]

Why doesn't the manufacture work with the open source community to provide better fixes to their products. Like teamhacksung is porting ICS to Galaxy S now and if Samsung helped it whttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/12/28/1536257/samsung-reconsidering-android-40-on-the-galaxy-s?utm_source=feedburnerGoogle+Feedfetcher&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher#ould be that much faster.

Re:what I dont get

[Merk42]

Because manufacturers are more concerned with their branding than they are the customer.

Re:what I dont get

[Lunix Nutcase]

Because Samsung's goal is to get you to buy a new phone.

Re:what I dont get

[Anonymous Coward]

Why doesn't the manufacture work with the open source community to provide better fixes to their products. Like teamhacksung is porting ICS to Galaxy S now and if Samsung helped it whttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/12/28/1536257/samsung-reconsidering-android-40-on-the-galaxy-s?utm_source=feedburnerGoogle+Feedfetcher&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher#ould be that much faster.

Will you chuckleheads please learn how to proofread? Pretty-please?

And this REALLY isn't hard either, not even if you really are that lazy: <a href="http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/12/28/1536257/samsung-reconsidering-android-40-on-the-galaxy-s>Your Text Here</a>

See how easy that is? Oh, and there is no need for the "utm_source" part unless you just love having marketers track your browsing and really want to help them do it.

Re:what I dont get

[Muramas95]

I would agree with this but I have a Galaxy S and the S2 is not very different and does not warrant an upgrade yet.

Re:what I dont get

[oakgrove]

You missed a quotation mark in your tag.

Re:what I dont get

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo, and if they don't upgrade their old phones my next phone won't be a Samsung. As it is, my current phone is a HTC Desire S, if that doesn't get ICS then my next phone won't be an HTC, if the Desire S stays on Gingerbread and the Galaxy S does get ICS then it's likely that I'll jump ship TO Samsung.

Message to the phone vendors: if you treat your old customers better than your competitors treat their old customers then you're likely to pick up their old customers at upgrade time, the reverse is also true.

Please remember

[Chemisor]

Let's all remember how companies view customers. And the screw gets bigger every year no matter what.

Re:Please remember

[phantomfive]

This is just troll. (A funny troll though). There are economic disincentives to "continually screwing the customer:" companies that do that lose all their customers (I know because I've worked for companies that tried). The only way "continually screwing the customer" works is when your business model relies on ripping people off (like this site, expect to get ripped off there), or when you have a monopoly.

Re:Please remember

[Chemisor]

The only way "continually screwing the customer" works is when your business model relies on ripping people off, or when you have a monopoly.

You mean like the business model of the cell carriers in the US? They also have a monopoly (due to the enormous barrier of entry).

Re:Please remember

[phantomfive]

You mean like the business model of the cell carriers in the US? They also have a monopoly (due to the enormous barrier of entry).

Yeap. That's why the business model should be broken into two parts, the bandwidth providers, and the service providers. The bandwidth providers will compete on providing the best infrastructure, and the service providers will compete on providing the best service to customers.

Ultimately it will get to that point, but it's still a young industry.

Already dumped my Galaxy S

[geek]

I had an Epic 4G. The upgrades were slim to none, taking almost 8 months to get Froyo. I eventually found ACSyndicate who make great roms for the device, including a 4.0 rom that was very well done minus the ability to use 4G.

I had to dump the device last week in favor of an iPhone though. I just can't deal with the fragmentation in Android devices, the lack of software upgrades, the sketchy nature of custom roms and the horrible device support from companies like Samsung.

Samsung blew it so bad on this device I've personally skipped out on buying their other products, including TV and Blue-ray players. I've also convinced my friends and family to go with other manufacturers because of it. If Samsung thinks their actions have no effect on their other products lines, they are sadly mistaken.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[Brian Feldman]

I had an Epic 4G. The upgrades were slim to none, taking almost 8 months to get Froyo. I eventually found ACSyndicate who make great roms for the device, including a 4.0 rom that was very well done minus the ability to use 4G.

I had to dump the device last week in favor of an iPhone though. I just can't deal with the fragmentation in Android devices, the lack of software upgrades, the sketchy nature of custom roms and the horrible device support from companies like Samsung.

Samsung blew it so bad on this device I've personally skipped out on buying their other products, including TV and Blue-ray players. I've also convinced my friends and family to go with other manufacturers because of it. If Samsung thinks their actions have no effect on their other products lines, they are sadly mistaken.

Yet for every one of you, there are plenty of people who do not have issues with their Samsung equipment and recommend Samsung to others. So I think that if you think you truly have an impact on any of their product lines, you are sadly mistaken.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[Nadaka]

I have an Epic 4g right now and love it. The only bad thing about it is that the battery is utter crap and won't last more than 3 or 4 hours of continuous use.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[jeffmeden]

Get a gingerbread version on it (see: androidcentral.com, xda-developers.net, or any similar site) and be careful when you enable 4g data (it kills the battery on any phone). You will not regret it; the Galaxy S is a solid performer. Samsung definitely has a screwed up software release process (not unlike most other companies) but the hardware is fantastic.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[Anonymous Coward]

troll.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[dave562]

Exactly. Samsung LCD TVs are great devices. I have two of them. My parents have one. My sister has one.

My g/f has a Vibrant. It is a piece of junk. I'm sorry that I ever suggested that she buy it. However her phone has nothing to do with the television.

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[forkfail]

Here's the thing, though.

Negatives stick better than positives in people's minds. Throw in the fact that folks rather just expect that which they pay for to work, and you've got something of a zero sum game scenario. If it works, and works well - it's nominal. If not, it's negative. Really hard to exceed the expectation.

So - how many folks saying, "I love my Samsung hardware" does it take to cancel out someone saying, "I paid $500 bucks for this phone, $200 for the warranty, and they won't replace it even though there's a proven hardware problem"? How many dollars in commercials does it take to cancel out the fact that Samsung is not willing to invest in the engineering time to upgrade their phones OS?

Re:Already dumped my Galaxy S

[21mhz]

I have a cheap Samsung TV. Its software crashes a lot with a less usual language selection. I guess they program each TV model from scratch and their system software has fixed-size buffers for UI strings. But hey, it even got a software update over the cable, once.
I think it's good that they took smartphone software from Google rather than developing it in-house (Bada, anyone?). But I will not buy a product that's any more complex than a microwave oven from Samsung again.

V like..

[Jimpqfly]

VICTORY !

Here's what I think Google should do

[Mascot]

Enforce a policy where handset manufacturers are required to offer a convenient way to optionally install vanilla Android. Problem solved, as far as I'm concerned. When "primary" support is ended, I get the option of buying a newer device to get the manufacturer added bells and whistles, or going with vanilla Android until the hardware just can't handle it.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Lunix Nutcase]

And they will do this how without driving away the manufacturers or causing the manufacturers to fork the code and leave Google hanging?

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Mascot]

I said "here's what I think". I didn't say I had researched the agreements and could offer a contractual way to accomplish it. I believe a clause to enforce updates for a certain period (12 or 18 months, was it?) has already been added. I don't feel it's inconceivable that the manufacturers might also open their phones up at end-of-life. Come to think of it, doesn't HTC already offer a way to unlock their _new_ phones? Last I heard it was supposed to launch in the Aug/Sep time frame.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Kethinov]

Without agreeing to Google's terms, manufactures can't ship devices with the Android Market, Google's apps, or use the Android trademark. That gives Google the power to do as the OP suggests.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[tommy8]

The handset makers and wireless service provides get paid to put crapware on the phones, they won't go vanilla Android.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Lunix Nutcase]

Or it will drive them to fork Android like Amazon did.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Lunix Nutcase]

There is no such contractual agreement. There was talk about manufacturers giving updates for 18 months "as long as hardware would allow" but nothing legally enforceable. If Google tried to enforce such a contract the manufacturers would laugh and fork Android like Amazon has done effectively killing Android as it now exists. These manufacturers aren't in this to make vanilla Android handsets. Without being able to differentiate through customization they won't stick around.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[Kethinov]

Amazon is in a different type of business than HTC, Samsung, etc. Amazon's reasons for forking Android exist regardless of whether or not Google chooses to implement the OP's proposed policy, whereas HTC, Samsung, etc are more willing to accept Google's terms in order to get a low cost, high quality OS on their phones.

Re:Here's what I think Google should do

[drinkypoo]

This is basically how it works anyway! If your device is at all interesting it will be hacked, and once it is hacked you can do precisely what you say via the auspices of the community. Google won't do it because it would drive handset makers away (as the sibling comments say) and the handset makers won't do it even if they want to because in some countries they'll be in the position of having to support your phone even after you've hacked it all up, which is a situation they don't want to deal with. The current situation hurts nobody who is not too dumb to avoid manufacturers who go to great lengths to lock users out of their own devices.

Use a ROM!

[expo53d]

The power of Android Devices lies here. While these Samsung Nexus S users may not get the official upgrade, users who are tech savvy enough to care will simply install a 4.0 ROM for thier phones. I personally have an OG droid running android 2.3.5.

Re:Use a ROM!

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean Samsung Galaxy S.
The Google/Samsung Nexus S already got its official 4.0 OTA update (and it has almost identical hardware specs to the Galaxy S...).

Tablets also...

[linuxwonder]

I hope Samsung is "reconsidering" ICS on the tablets as well.

Re:Tablets also...

[oakgrove]

They should. I have Ice Cream Sandwich on my Xoom and it beats the shit out of any Honeycomb tablet I've seen yet despite being Tegra2 clocked at 1GHz. Seriously, this thing flies and the text lag is gone.

Not really surprised.

[forkfail]

That was the phone line that had the broken GPS that never really got fixed; it was a hardware issue that they tried to kludge together a patch for that didn't work well never went out over the air, and for which you had to take down all your firewall and virus protection to apply via Kies.

Oh, and t-mobile won't honor warranties on those $500 phones. Even when you pay $8 a month, bringing the effective total to $700 over the course of a two year contract. Unless you define the word honor as the offer of a $150 clique as a replacement.

But - I'm not bitter. Really.

Re:Not really surprised.

[thegarbz]

To be fair I think this is more representative of Samsung following the typical carrier model in the USA by releasing different phone hardware depending on who your carrier is. The Samsung Vibrant is the only phone in a series of about 10 different models which had that hardware issue. For the rest of the Galaxy S series GPS performance depended on the firmware (which admittedly they didn't get right until Gingerbread and even then the XXJVK modem seems to be problematic for some).

You can run it RIGHT NOW on i9000 as well.

[brunes69]

Cyanogen Mod 9 Alpha 11 is out now and is rock solid. Anyone who is comfortable installing their own custom ROMs should not hesitate to upgrade to ICS. I have been running ICS on my i9000 GalaxyS now for almost a month, and have had very few issues , and have had no issues at all since Build 10. All functions and features on the device (camera,audio,video,hardware acceleration,etc.) work flawlessly now. And the ICS features such as Face Unlock and panoramic / time lapse camera also work. There is no reason to wait for Samsung to get off their butt.

Re:You can run it RIGHT NOW on i9000 as well.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't get Cyanogen if you have a T-Mobile Vibrant

Re:You can run it RIGHT NOW on i9000 as well.

[TwinkieStix]

And, if you're not into the Cyanogen custom experience, or if you have a T-Mobile Vibrant (which will probably never get ICS CyanogenMod support), then check out this project to bring ICS to the Galaxy S series. It's already very stable:
http://code.google.com/p/ice-cream-sandwich-sgs/

Re:You can run it RIGHT NOW on i9000 as well.

[21mhz]

Cyanogen Mod 9 Alpha 11 is out now and is rock solid.

Between this and another poster whose only minor complaint was that his phone lasts 5 hours on the battery charge at best (are we back in 1985?), I suddenly realized why it is so fascinating to read every Android flamefest on Slashdot.

You don't see your smartphone as a device that helps you live your life rather than becoming an eminent part of it, do you?

Re:fandroids love getting buttfuckef

[jellomizer]

How many people get smart phones just because they work. They get them because they have cool neat new features. In 2008 I got an iPhone (origional?) Then in 2010 I got the iPhone 4. My Wife got my old iPhone and that old phone still works. iOS is stuck on version 3. But you can still get apps for it that work fine for it. I may upgrade on the iPhone 6 but that depends on what comes out. I wanted the iPhone 4 because of the high resolution display, easier to read text in small fonts. The new features in the iPhone 4s isn't that appealing to me Siri is a cool toy but I will get board with it quickly... Mostly because I am not one who talks much.

ICS is good technically, but the interface sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

The new contact manager for example - absolutely terrible. I don't know who green-lighted that thing, but it sure wasn't someone outside the direct developer pool. It's like Fedora 15. It may be great under the hood, but usability was simply not part of the equation.

ICS on SII

[wiedzmin]

You know, the only reason I didn't buy a Galaxy S II this boxing day is because it doesn't have ICS... Just refreshed my CrackBerry instead. Samsung should get moving if they don't want to lose customers (though the sales person swore that ICS will be out for S II by January 2012).

Re:ICS on SII

[norminator]

January is a little optimistic. Samsung said Q1, which could mean anytime between January and March, but there are often delays with releases, so it could be later than March.

Still, Samsung is one of the fastest with their expected releases for ICS on existing phones. The other big problem is that no matter when Samsung has their own version of ICS available for any given phone, the carriers (in the US, at least) will take their own sweet time to add their crapware and test it before they will give it their blessing. Especially with the Galaxy S II, where there's one version available internationally, and each of the 3 carriers in the US has an entirely separate version, and AT&T has not one, but 2 separate (and fairly different, internally) versions of it. There are also other GSII versions in different international markets.

So unfortunately, even the mighty Galaxy S II has its work cut out for it, but the one thing it has going for it is Samsung's announced timeframe. If you have one US version, don't be surprised if you don't get ICS until months after the international version gets it, or after the other US carriers get it. If you're cool with Cyanogenmod (I have CM7.1 running on my AT&T GSII -- not the Skyrocket), you'll probably have CM9 with ICS weeks (at least) ahead of the official Samsung/Carrier release.

Question

[deKernel]

I guess I have to ask the question, why do people always feel the need to upgrade the OS on their phones. What exactly does the new version of Android provide in the area of functionality that the current 2.3 build? I ask because my current Android 2.3 provides all business and personal needs that I currently require.

Re:Question

[X3J11]

I guess I have to ask the question, why do people always feel the need to upgrade the OS on their phones. What exactly does the new version of Android provide in the area of functionality that the current 2.3 build? I ask because my current Android 2.3 provides all business and personal needs that I currently require.

Speaking anecdotally, my SGS has issues turning wifi on, has hard locked on occasion, and doesn't have the best battery life. I've also replace TouchWiz with another launcher (but need to keep TW in order to use Kies) which duplicates the functionality of the stock ICS launcher.

I do not use the Samsung apps, nor do I use any of the crap my carrier (Bell Canada) puts on the phone. I rooted it specifically so I could remove all that garbage. A plain ICS on my SGS would eliminate the need for several apps that copy the style of the stock apps. Besides, I am the consumer, the device is a little over a year old (I bought it a few days after Bell launched the SGS), and it's what I want, dammit. I figure I'll eventually switch to CyanogenMod or another 3rd party ICS release once they iron out all the bugs. I believe I am past my warranty period anyway.

Re:Question

[the_B0fh]

Security patches. You should attend Defcon in Vegas. Plenty of interesting android security talks. One of which was a "cannot be fixed in 2.x as it is an architectural/design issue".

Re:fandroids love getting buttfuckef

[Anonymous Coward]

Cyanogen mod is not "gotten updated frequently".

business as usual

[roc97007]

As early adopters of the Galaxy S, my family lived the pain for a year and finally dumped them, paid the penalty, and changed carriers. Not only was the build quality terrible (some were dead in their box, others were delivered with bad gyros and nonfunctional gps -- I mean completely nonfunctional, not the haphazard functionality they had when they were working) but Samsung seemed grimly determined to avoid upgrades at all cost, apparently expecting users to do the iPhone thing and buy a new device yearly in order to get a new software capability contained within the incrementally newer OS.

And... ok fine. If that's the way they want to do business, there's no stopping them. But we don't have to buy their stuff.

Indications are, they're managing their tablet products the same way. Stylishly designed, but don't buy one expecting the next version of Android to ever be available. If it is, bonus. It's better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

But better yet, buy from a vendor with a better reputation for updates.

Mind you, there will be a time when timely updates will be less important, but Android is still on the steep end of the curve, and issues are still being worked out. (I got an answer to my bug report a couple weeks ago -- proxy settings on a network-by-network basis is available as of version 3, which will probably never make it to my phone. Sigh.) In another year or two when Android becomes less of a new technology and more of a commodity item, updates may decrease in importance. But for now, it's update or lose a customer. The Android crowd isn't the same as the iOS crowd. If we don't get what we want, we don't camp outside the store to be the first to get the next device from the same vendor. We change vendors.

Re:business as usual

[wjcofkc]

You say all you have to do is change vendor. You also site a penalty fee. If you hop all around looking for perfection, what is the cost of canceling contracts or buying a new phone before renewal time verses getting a new iPhone every year? I am not trying to be flamebait, I'm really curious.

Re:business as usual

[roc97007]

I did not say "all you have to do" is change vendor. It's not something one does lightly, but under extreme circumstances may be one's only option. After our sixth (!) Galaxy S failure in less than a year, we had had enough. The 2.2 update debacle simply added motivation to switch vendors.

My family does not switch out devices on a whim. We tend to research our purchases thoroughly beforehand, buy a little better than what we need, tend to favor devices and appliances that can be upgraded if necessary, and then keep those devices for a very long time, repairing them as necessary. My home computer, for instance, was purchased in 2000. I think I've replaced everything at some point, as it wore out or failed, except the floppy and the case. My monitor is a 19" glass tube from the late nineties that's just now starting to go wonky. (I might be able to fix it.)

We've had very few bad experiences -- the two I can think of this century were the Sony Grand Wega fiasco, which led to a class action lawsuit for which we received a settlement and a new TV, and the Samsung Galaxy S fiasco which has caused us to cross Samsung off our list.

It bugs the living hell out of me, the device replacement (not "upgrade" if you get a new device) mentality of which the Apple fanbois are the worst offenders. It also bugged the hell outta me that neither the vendor nor the service provider could make the Galaxy work reliably. We tried everything. For instance, on the off chance that the local wireless store got a pallet of phones that was dropped, (sounds plausible, and would explain a lot) we tried replacing it the final time from a service center on the other side of town. That one lasted a little over four months before the compass failed, and then a few days later the screen went wonky. It was just a crap phone and there's not much help for that.

...and so it's too late for us, the rumor that 4.0 will be available on the phone. The lack of timely updates was an issue, but it was not the only issue. And I'd rather gouge out my eyes than buy a Galaxy S II.

Re:business as usual

[thegarbz]

Other vendors?

So do tell which other Android vendor releases a phone originally with Eclair and then provides 3 major OS upgrades throughout its life despite having not 1 but 2 successors to the original phone already released? I get your grievances, but in every respect my experience is that Samsung seem to be one of the best vendors in this regard.

But wait ... bad gyros? The phone doesn't have a gyro.... Also Android, a 3+ year old OS which has been through many major updates is "new technology"? ..... Greetings traveller, welcome to planet earth. Where are you from?

Re:business as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised to hear this

I absolutely adore my Galaxy S, and I regularly tell people it's the best phone I've ever had (far better than the 3gs I had)

I did update to the Samsung European version of Android (2.2) because the carrier (Optus) had filled it with bloatware. And there was a software issue with the GPS that was resolved with the update. Even before that though I was very pleased with the phone. The screen is also gorgeous, really black blacks which I show off to people (especially iphone users)

I think your failure's might be an anomoly, just FYI

Re:business as usual

[roc97007]

It's a pretty phone when it works. The AT&T tech at the service center said that it was the luck of the draw with this phone -- you just keep trying until you get a good one. Based on what I've read on forums, I'd suggest that your success is the anomoly. Or rather, that you got a good one out the gate, which must happen to some people. Although, good thinking on flashing it with the European version. A friend did the same with his Galaxy tablet and got much better performance.

Incidentally, the GPS update did nothing for our phones. They persisted in showing position as about six blocks to the northwest, or six blocks to the southeast, randomly. We learned early on to download the gps tester in the store to check whether the phone would pick up satellites before leaving the premises. And we'd just keep going through boxes until we found one that would lock on. Are you sure your GPS actually works? Have you tested it? Or is your phone getting position from cell towers?

Daughter has a bionic and wife has a rhyme now, through Verizon, and are a lot happier. I dumped my personal cell entirely, going with company issued droid X.

Re:business as usual

[roc97007]

On your first point, Yes, as Froyo was an important update and Samsung took an outrageous amount of time pushing it out. What they did afterwards is immaterial, they had already lost considerable face at that point. Now, because of that but mostly because of the terrible build quality, I wouldn't buy a Samsung product if it included a free puppy. Based on the forums, I'm not the only one who feels that way.

> But wait ... bad gyros? The phone doesn't have a gyro....

I knew someone would pick up on that. Typo on my part. The position sensor -- the part that tells the phone whether it's in portrait or landscape. I used to work in military electronics; had a flashback there for a second.

> Also Android, a 3+ year old OS which has been through many major updates is "new technology"?

Yes. Oh, hell yes. Until it's progressed to the point where it's considered commodity. Let's talk again when Android has a decade under its belt. At that point, I might feel more comfortable buying a device knowing it won't ever have a major OS upgrade.

Mind you, I'm still an Android customer because I think it's a worthy technology with a lot of promise. But at this stage, it's still vital to pick your vendors carefully. The trivial example (which has no direct bearing on the Samsung debacle) is the deluge of crap foreign Android slates, and the very few nice foreign Android slates. It's important to recognize the signs, be able to tell which is which.

ask those who bought Samsung Behold II phones

[Locutus]

ask them what they think of Samsung and their motivations dealing with customers and their products. IIRC, Samsung said the product would get the 2.x OS upgrade and then months later, after many purchased the phones, told them that they were not going do the upgrade. Take their word with a salt pill.

LoB

most users probably not obsessed with updates

[csumpi]

My wife has a droid2 and she was completely happy with Froyo on it. I recently upgraded her phone to Gingerbread and she likes some of the new features and she is still happy. But I don't think it much changed her outlook on life, she still uses her phone to make calls, email, browse the internet and navigation.

In a couple of months when she is eligible for an upgrade we'll get her a new phone, because it's scratched here and there, the kids dreweled all over it and she dropped it a couple of times. Then she'll have a phone with the latest Android, and she'll be able to make calls, email, browse the internet and use it for navigation.

With each Android update I found the UI more polished, things running smoother and some kinks worked out.

While iOS updates do the same, I think the main driving factor for Apple is adding new ways to tap the wallets. Like in app purchasing, iCloud, disabling jailbreaks, whatnot. So if they don't update older phones, they will lose money on those people. So yes, you get more shiny new updates, but the main purpose is to get more of your moneys.

Back to my wife: she had an iPhone before the Droid2, and while she got updates, she was not very satisfied with the constant dropped calls, poor reception and bad call quality. Now she gets less updates, but she's more satisfied because her phone just... works.

It is?

[manekineko2]

So are you suggesting that McDonalds, Walmart, etc. are a flash in the pan, and that by pursuing "cheap and good enough" they have no long term sustainable gain?

Re:It is?

[forkfail]

I'm suggesting that McDonnalds has its own niche, whereas droids and iPhones are fighting for the same niche.

Different models.

And - honestly - I suspect that for at least some time it will be possible to come out with a sequence of shiney new things that have long term problems, but will work in the short term. But eventually, I think that the stable, sustainable model will work best in this niche.

T-Mobile Value Plans

[tepples]

I don't know of any carrier in the US that gives you a discount when you bring a phone to them.

T-Mobile has the "Value Plans" (formerly "Even More Plus") which separate out the device (purchased up front or financed) and the service into separate line items. Consumer Reports applauded T-Mobile for its transparency in this respect.

really!

[Anonymous Coward]

"leaving its faithful fans in a position of having another year on their contracts with no upgrade path"

Yeah, this is a real tragedy for those spoiled brats that have to "upgrade" their gadgets every two months. Go to work and stop being so childish!

Bronies

[tepples]

Any conmpany which makes its purchasing recommendations on the basis of "My Little Pony" will probably go out of business before it pays for the product.

I see your overall point, but I couldn't help pointing out that you appear to misunderestimate the overlap between My Little Pony fans and geeks. See this story in Wired about geeky fans of the animated series My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.

Re:Bronies

[Anne Thwacks]

You are right, I had no idea. but

At last - convincing evidence that Windows causes brain damage!

Consoles' favorite genres

[tepples]

In the case of consoles, they were - historically - cheaper than buying a PC for just for gaming

And dramatically cheaper than buying a LAN full of gaming PCs. Games in fast-paced multiplayer-centric genres, such as fighting games (e.g. Mortal Kombat or Tekken), platform fighting games (such as Smash Bros.), and cooperative platformers (such as New Super Mario Bros.), tend to get released on consoles far more often than on PCs. Internet multiplayer doesn't work so well in these genres for two reasons: the interaction with other players is very sensitive to lag and not easily predicted, and part of the fun comes from having your real-life friends next to you.

Nexus? Zero bars.

[tepples]

The flipside is, you have to live with your choices, and not bitch because you didn't do enough research/thinking before making them.

Other than that Google's vanilla Android devices aren't available on a carrier with good coverage where one lives and works. Is that not a valid bitch?

People did sign a contract

[tepples]

There are probably some states that give you a little implied warranty protection for a limited duration of time, but that's it as far as rights go unless you signed a contract.

And guess what most Americans (.us) do when they buy a smartphone. Why shouldn't a phone tied to a 2-year service contract get security updates to fix known vulnerabilities in the operating system for the entire contract period?

Re:People did sign a contract

[MightyYar]

Why shouldn't a phone tied to a 2-year service contract get security updates to fix known vulnerabilities in the operating system for the entire contract period?

I don't know why it "shouldn't", but I'm pretty sure mine "doesn't".

I think people have unrealistic expectations and a sense of entitlement. Ford isn't under any obligation to bring your older car up to current safety standards, and any device with a non-flashable ROM is not updated ever. Just because a device has some capability does not mean a manufacturer is on the hook to use that capability unless they made some commitment. If Samsung wants to sell phones and then never upgrade them, that is their right - though me personally... I'd spend a few extra dollars for a phone that does promise more support.

Stripping out unnecessary query parameters

[tepples]

Oh, and there is no need for the "utm_source" part unless you just love having marketers track your browsing and really want to help them do it.

It's not zero-effort to determine which query parameters in a URL from "Copy Link Location" are necessary and strip out those that aren't. Do you expect everyone posting a comment to remove each query parameter one by one and make sure the link still works?

Security, GPU use, and new APIs

[tepples]

What exactly does the new version of Android provide in the area of functionality that the current 2.3 build?

I can see at least three reasons:

• New versions of Android fix security vulnerabilities.
• Android 3 and later include hardware-accelerated graphics. This makes everything more responsive.
• Once Android 4 phones become commonplace, application developers will start relying on the new APIs introduced in Android 3 and 4.

Recalls

[tepples]

Ford isn't under any obligation to bring your older car up to current safety standards

Automakers and makers of infant care products routinely issue recalls when a safety problem is discovered with their products.

Re:Recalls

[MightyYar]

Automakers and makers of infant care products routinely issue recalls when a safety problem is discovered with their products.

Yes, but for how long? It's worth noting that car seats come with an expiration date, for instance. Cribs built even just 5 years ago would not allowed for sale today.

Not to mention that as a society we take personal safety to life and limb much more seriously than computer crime. We have a bureaucracy in place set up to make sure that car makers, aircraft makers, train operators, elevator manufacturers, baby product makers, etc. are all tightly regulated and they are specifically required by law to make retroactive safety improvements.

If you want this same government oversight for phones, be my guest and push for it - but there is not currently any right to a free service contract included with any electronic toy you purchase. For what it's worth, I don't want such oversight.

Re:Recalls

[tepples]

Yes, but for how long?

Ideally, at least as long as the contract that was bundled with the phone, which in the case of the United States cellular market is typically two years.

but there is not currently any right to a free service contract included with any electronic toy you purchase.

People pay for a service contract but still don't get what they pay for.

Re:Recalls

[MightyYar]

Ideally, at least as long as the contract that was bundled with the phone, which in the case of the United States cellular market is typically two years.

Are you confusing the carrier's role with the manufacturer's role? Why does Samsung's obligation change just because a carrier subsidizes the phone?

Re:Recalls

[tepples]

Why does Samsung's obligation change just because a carrier subsidizes the phone?

Because the carrier buys the phones from Samsung.

Re:Recalls

[MightyYar]

So? Your contract is between some carrier and yourself - I'd bet Samsung is nowhere on the contract.

Re:Recalls

[tepples]

And if the contract between the carrier and the customer includes security updates for the handset for the life of the service commitment, there has to be a similar contract on the back-end between the carrier and the manufacturer. If the contract between the carrier and the customer includes security updates for the handset for the life of the service commitment, this likely raises implied warranty issues in more than one country.

Re:Recalls

[MightyYar]

And if the contract between the carrier and the customer includes security updates for the handset for the life of the service commitment,

Naturally, but that's a pretty big if. I don't think mine includes any such provision. Certainly if yours does, then you do have a contractual right to security updates.

Re:Recalls

[tepples]

I now realize that I had mistyped something. I meant to imply that some governments might force carriers to include such a provision.

Re:Recalls

[MightyYar]

Sure, they might. But unless your government does, you have no right to it - and there is certainly no natural right to software updates :)

Re:fandroids love getting buttfuckef

[thegarbz]

How many people get smart phones just because they work. They get them because they have cool neat new features.

You've just given us two datapoints. Yours (neat features), and your wife's (just works). You're a nerd. I'm a nerd, we CRAVE the new features.

But don't make the classic mistake to think that we represent the common folk. People upgrade because they can for no further cost. When a contract expires they are normally given a new phone. The people who actively break contract to upgrade, or who stand outside Apple stores are an INCREDIBLE minority of mobile phone customers.

ICS for Samsung Exhibit II?

[cheezitmike]

I can't find any information about whether or not the Samsung Exhibit II (which just came out in October) for T-Mobile will get Ice Cream Sandwich. Anyone else heard any rumors?

Samsung Support Blows

[HArchH]

Just ask all those Samsung Fascinate owners that were promised a Froyo update and are still waiting.