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Belarus Bans Use of Foreign Websites

bs0d3 writes "A new law in Belarus prohibits people from using 'foreign' websites. The law requires that all companies and individuals who are registered as entrepreneurs in Belarus use only domestic Internet domains for providing online services, conducting sales, or exchanging email messages. The tax authorities and the secret police are authorized to investigate violations."

361 comments

  1. Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Belarus is a dictatorship with a history of human rights abuse. All bets are off.

    1. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also: A place where my job is not likely to be outsourced to.

      Keep up good work!

    2. Re:Geek perspective: websites by houstonbofh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once SOPA passes, and US companies start to offshore both domain names and hosting, how long before a law like this passes here? Don't say it could never happen. A lot of "nevers" have happened in the past few years. I never thought US Citizens could be dissapeared on US soil either.

    3. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      Belarus is a dictatorship with a history of human rights abuse.

      Well, you certainly don't minsk words.

    4. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Criticisms of SOPA or anything else will fall on deaf ears when you lose all perspective and compare the US to a repressive dictatorship.

    5. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He doesn't mince them either.

    6. Re:Geek perspective: websites by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a non-American, the US is viewed as repressive, & we all assume the dictatorship bit will come soon (not that it's really needed). More & more the US is looking like 1920's Germany.

    7. Re:Geek perspective: websites by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Funny
      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    8. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhggg.. don't remind me

    9. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As an American, I can assure you that you are absolutely correct.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Geek perspective: websites by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Apparently Belarus is a presidential republic, just like USA

    11. Re:Geek perspective: websites by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Informative

      On Decembe 31, 2011, Obama gave a black eye to the citizens of USA by signing NDAA with provisions that basically establish martial law and turn Obama into a dictator.

      It's only a matter of time before using a foreign website will be an offense that marks a US citizen as a terrorist.

      No foreign bank wants to deal with US citizens because of Patriot Act. When SOPA or something similar passes, foreigners will start avoiding online US clients and businesses.

    12. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Existential+Wombat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is this a load of .bs ?

    13. Re:Geek perspective: websites by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      The US is an oligarchy with a history of gradual erosion of its founding principles.

      It wasn't that gradual. The ink wasn't dry on the US constitution before US president began engaging in policies and behavior that were counter to founding principles. It's most obvious in foreign policy and wars and imperialism, but you can see it clearly in domestic policy too.

      Fact is, the US constitution isn't nearly the perfect document that you would be led to believe. There are holes you could drive a truck through, not to mention outright hypocrisy. Don't forget that a lot of slaves in the colonies chose to fight against George Washington in the Revolutionary War because it seemed ridiculous to them to fight and die for a regime that embraced slavery.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Geek perspective: websites by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it never happened before Patriot?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    15. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's rich coming from an Ausie. Put down the video game controller for a bit and look at your own backyard.

    16. Re:Geek perspective: websites by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      US Citizens could always have been disappeared on US soil and have.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    17. Re:Geek perspective: websites by peted56 · · Score: 1

      That's rich coming from an Ausie. Put down the video game controller for a bit and look at your own backyard.

      Coming from an AC who would give a flying fuck what you think.

    18. Re:Geek perspective: websites by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      I'd say it's looking more Orwellian for sure. 1920's Germany though is a stretch, I mean you don't really see masses of people rallying behind the government. Hopefully there's alot of my countrymen that feel as I do, and thinks the government needs a gut check.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    19. Re:Geek perspective: websites by misexistentialist · · Score: 0

      Obama just signed a law authorizing the military to arrest citizens. The pieces are coming together

    20. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you certainly don't minsk words.

      Swords, not words!

    21. Re:Geek perspective: websites by cold+fjord · · Score: 3

      As an American, I can assure you that you are absolutely correct.

      Patriotism is bigotry.

      Little wonder.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    22. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On Decembe 31, 2011, Obama gave a black eye to the citizens of USA by signing NDAA with provisions that basically establish martial law and turn Obama into a dictator.

      It's only a matter of time before using a foreign website will be an offense that marks a US citizen as a terrorist.

      No foreign bank wants to deal with US citizens because of Patriot Act. When SOPA or something similar passes, foreigners will start avoiding online US clients and businesses.

      You're an idiot

    23. Re:Geek perspective: websites by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've been avoiding the US since the Patriot act passed - there is no way I want to visit, work-in or deal-with (business wise) people from a country where as a "foreigner" they can lock me up and throw away the key without due process or oversight.

      Dictatorship no......oppressive regime? 'Fraid so!

    24. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also: A place where my job is not likely to be outsourced to.

      Keep up good work!

      Don't count on it. Mine was 6 months ago. Although this may make some people reconsider.

    25. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SS were patriots too.

    26. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 0

      So if I claimed to be biased in favor of my native country (iow, patriotic), you would give more credence to my remarks?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    27. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US is far from perfect, but saying that it's a dictatorship is far from the truth. Especially if you've never lived in one, or visited one, or even had family who escaped from one. At worst, you're using your statements to push an agenda. At best you're using hyperbole.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    28. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that's not what patriotic means.

    29. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the German people were telling this to each other in the late 20s or early 30s too. You know, right before they did become a dictatorship.

    30. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1920's Germany vs 2012 America

      Widespread starvation in Germany from Versailles Treaty sanctions (Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people died).
      *Some poor Americans live in poverty but nobody is trying to starve us and in general everybody has food here.
      The industrial region in western Germany was awarded to France and Belgium, depriving Germany of its ability to manufacture goods. *America is an industrial giant.
      The German merchant marine was taken away. *America has a first-class merchant marine
      Germany's colonies in Africa, the South Pacific, and its exclusive economic zones in China were taken away. *We don't have colonies but we are adept and vigorous in all economic matters.
      Germany's eastern territory was divided between Poland and Russia.
      Germany's southern territory was divided between Italy and Czechoslovakia and Serbia.
      Germany's northern territory was taken by Finland (they voted to succeed but you get the idea). *The Philippine Islands took some US Naval Bases but they really needed the room to build hotels for American tourists.
      German citizens in annexed territories were treated as third class pariah's by their occupiers and unable to substantially support their families. Thousands more were murdered trying to support themselves and gain basic human rights. *American's are treated as pariah's by many cultures overseas however Americans can support themselves, have access to advanced human rights, judicial system and because Americans have the right to bear arms are notoriously hard to murder by foreigners.

      I don't see any resemblance between 1920's Germany and 2012 America.

    31. Re:Geek perspective: websites by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Way to speak for billions of people. Clearly all non-Americans are one big hivemind. As an American, I was unaware of that. Thanks for your insight!

    32. Re:Geek perspective: websites by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      Offshore domain names & hosting? Are you kidding me? Like there's anything stopping them from doing it now, if it made sense. SOPA isn't going to have any effect on domain names and hosting. As for access to domains and such, for whatever you want to think about the US, there's a very long legacy of freedom of speach here, and that includes access to materials deemed offensive. If such a law were to happen here it would have happened in the form of books a long time ago, before the internet, and book bans by local municipalities are always struck down when challenged in higher courts. No, you're way off. A law like Belurus isn't going to happen here any time soon. Now, getting arrested and held without a reason, that's happening now. So you can laugh your ass off to that one. But not some "law" that limits access to web sites.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    33. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "I'm sure the..."

      No, you're not sure. That just sounds good.

      If you're actually comparing US current events with 20-30s Germany, you're stretching credibility. Provide some substantive comparisons beyond a mere assertion.

    34. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bigots also throw out unfounded accusations of bigotry when they know they can't argue the facts.

    35. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      You're damn ignorant. I really don't need to go much further than that. I do have family that live in the US, though mostly second cousins though my mothers side. My mothers family were german-jews. Feel free to ponder that all you want.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    36. Re:Geek perspective: websites by camperdave · · Score: 1

      No, .bs is the code for the Bahamas. This is a load of .by

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    37. Re:Geek perspective: websites by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      As a non-American, the US is viewed as repressive, & we all assume the dictatorship bit will come soon (not that it's really needed). More & more the US is looking like 1920's Germany.

      If you actually believe that nonsense it would seem that either your education system or media has failed you, unless you are a "progressive", in which case the problem is fringe politics.

      I like your use of the royal "we" though.

      Freedom of speech is dead in Australia

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    38. Re:Geek perspective: websites by artor3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You might want to mention that Obama fought against those provisions, and managed to weaken several key ones, and stated "My administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens ... doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a nation.”

      The Republicans forced this through by attaching these totalitarian provisions to the NDAA (which is passed every year to set the budget for the Department of Defense). The Democrats tried their best to weaken the new provisions - voting all but unanimously against them (the lone bad Democrat was Peterson of Minnesota). In the end, the people to blame are the idiot voters who thought that the Republicans had changed since the Bush years and gave the House back to them in 2010.

      I don't see why you would fail to mention this, unless you were intentionally trying to mislead people about who exactly was behind these new laws.

    39. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's a democratic republic where those who oppose the always winning democratically elected party get beaten up and imprisoned. Voting on the wrong party in Belarus can be bad for your health.

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    40. Re:Geek perspective: websites by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      But does he Minsc words?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    41. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they will lock you up for no reason. Literally 50% of the people who come here are locked up with no reason. They put them in places like New York and California... horrible places with horrible people.

    42. Re:Geek perspective: websites by bfandreas · · Score: 2

      As a non-American I can assure you that the US has had darker moments throughout its history and has reinvented itsself quite often. As a nation it is like all nations neither good nor evil. It is true that it currently is in a rough shape, but so is the whole western world. But we've seen worse.
      Idiocracy may seem to be prophetic, but unfortunately it is quite universal, too.
      SOPA doesn't even remotely compare to what is going on in Belarus. The comparision denigrates those who are disappeared at night, a nation living under the heel of a boot and people who have to live in plain sight of that mustache.
      If you want to belittle a whole nation then you should at least add some substance to your poo-flinging.

      On second thought, please don't.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    43. Re:Geek perspective: websites by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't see why you would fail to mention this, unless you were intentionally trying to mislead people about who exactly was behind these new laws.

      - maybe you should actually READ what I linked to, which is my journal entry?

      In fact I mentioned something, but it's the exact problem that I mentioned that you are displaying - being confused by the MSM, which are on purpose make it confusing for some people to understand that in FACT it was Obama who fought...... to EXCLUDE the provisions from the bill that would LIMIT the power against being applied to US citizens (not that these powers should be applied to ANY humans on the planet, but that train left the station back when the 'Patriot' Act was signed).

      Obama fought in order to ensure that the US citizens would in fact be included in the list of people that are targeted by this bill.

      You see, you got screwed by your MSM as I explained in my journal entry. Here is what you should know.

      So, I expect some form of a retraction from you for your false accusations here.

    44. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Jessified · · Score: 1

      Lol tell that to the people who are indefinitely detained without trial. Tell that to the people who get wiretapped without warrant. Tell that to the people the US tortures. Tell that to the people your government censors.

      I could go on, but your wilful ignorance suggests it won't make a lick of difference.

      "But our tyranny isn't as bad as theirs!" Wow a real point of pride *thumbs up*

    45. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

      >

      Fact is, the US constitution isn't nearly the perfect document that you would be led to believe.

      True. Though also bear in mind a lot of those holes are because the founding fathers never dreamed of the ability to wrangle words lawyers have developed today. A lot of phrases in the constitution can be interpreted a dozen different ways today simply because the meaning was clear back then and they didn't feel the need to clarify every single thing. I suspect if such a document were written today it would be 100 times as long.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    46. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Viewed by whom? Lots of people still come here to get away from repressive governments. And here you can actually choose who you vote for; and actually have a high confidence that the number of voters will match the number of votes.

      Not claiming its perfect, but id be really surprised to hear whom these defenders of freedom are. UK? The country with cameras all throughout London, and no right to bear arms? Australia, with its fascination for global ISP filtering? Germany, with its stiff censorship laws? Or perhaps you meant Italy, with its so-free media, or Russia, with its impeccable balots?

      Do tell, Im all ears.

    47. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Funny

      AAAAAAAAAND Godwin. I think we're done here.

    48. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      wow someone hit a nerve.

    49. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Its not really a tyranny when your leader is booted from office every 4, or 8 tops years, and you have freedom to vote for whom you want with no repercussions.

    50. Re:Geek perspective: websites by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The Republicans forced this through by attaching these totalitarian provisions to the NDAA

      Why is this constitutional? The Supreme Court should be striking down all the laws passed by unrelated riders that your politicians sneak through on the back of other bills.

    51. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Skapare · · Score: 1

      There is ONE similarity, however. A political party is moving to try to take over the country so they can impose their own narrow minded views on the whole country.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    52. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I actually lived for some time in the US. My perspective is that US is no dictatorship but neither it is a modern democracy as defined by the standard set by modern Western European democracies. I find American political system quite peculiar.

      It is quite authoritarian at the federal level, between defacto one party rule (I refuse to consider R and D to be sufficiently different ideologically to be considered distinct parties, they are more like a liberal and conservative wings of the old CPSU) and absolutely mad lobbyism there is a real abyss between ordinary people and what is going on in DC. It's almost a total disconnect like in other authoritarian countries like Russia. It is very different in countries like Norway for instance.

      On the other hand below state level it's quite a lively democracy with real political competition and shifting balance of power. And the whole "legislation by court" is a rather unique American thing not present in other countries.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    53. Re:Geek perspective: websites by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      The point that parent was making was in fact nonsense. As to SCOTUS - it's actually not getting enough attention by the public, as the transgressions of SCOTUS allowed the country to descent into totalitarian nightmare, starting all the way back with it not ruling correctly against the power of Federal reserve and Treasury to monetize government debt, print money (and it's nonsense that the Fed is an 'independent bank'), and all of the other stuff, including the violation of the 5th and 13th amendments by not working to strike down the 16th, the SS and Medicare and minimum wage and Patriot Act and TSA and EPA and FDA and all the rest of the destruction of the Constitution. (SCOTUS is supposed to uphold the law, which is the Constitution, but this also must mean it must uphold the Constitution completely, which means preventing new amendments from taking rights of people away that are guaranteed by the previous amendments).

      The Constitution needs to be reworked, but that's not going to happen and it's not going to achieve anything until the current power structure is changed, until people force the politicians to give up powers that they are unauthorized to hold.

    54. Re:Geek perspective: websites by artor3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would I read a journal entry with such a hyperbolic title as "The End of the Republic"?

      But okay, let's go read it...

      [The bill] ends the Democratic Republic of USA and installs a dictatorial power of the 'elected' POTUS.

      Well, that's a flagrant lie, right off the bat. Perhaps you should look up the term "dictatorial"? Also, I like the scare quotes to suggest that Obama wasn't elected.

      The MSM propaganda machine has been deployed to ensure that the population of USA (and probably of the world) does not understand that it was the President himself, who required that the current NDAA, which has provisions for 'indefinite detention' of 'suspected terrorists' by the military would also apply these powers against US citizens, which means that at this point the POTUS (any POTUS, Obama or anybody who comes after him), can capture and detain anybody in the world, including US citizens and hold them in military containment without a trial, without even possibility to contact any lawyers for any length of time.

      That is one sentence. Try as I might, I can't parse it. It's an absolute train wreck of missing and misplaced commas and incomplete thoughts.

      At this point it is clear that the powers that govern USA are making their last preparations before the USD collapses and ensures the survival of the elite with this dictatorial nonsense and basically establishment of the martial law.

      Uh-huh. Right. The big bad THEY all know that the country is about to collapse, and are thus laying the legal groundwork for the following chaos. Because if the country does collapse, a few words on paper are going to make a difference.

      Say hello now to the Fourth Reich

      And there's the Godwin, a great note to end on.

      You are paranoid and delusional. Scream about ad hominems all you like, the fact is you come across as no more trustworthy than the homeless crazy guy a few blocks from my apartment. Come back with sources, or don't come back at all. Better still, seek help from a professional before you hurt yourself or others.

    55. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Svippy · · Score: 1

      As an American, I can assure you that you are absolutely correct.

      Patriotism is bigotry.

      Little wonder.

      He is just confusing nationalism for patriotism. Words have no meaning any more. So I don't even know what bigotry means.

      --
      Clicked pie.
    56. Re:Geek perspective: websites by roman_mir · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Senator Carl Levin, D-Michigan explains, as I mentioned in my previous comment that Obama's administration forced the Senate to remove the language from the bill that would have prevented the US citizens from being taken in by the military and held indefinitely, without access to lawyers or anything that US citizens have rights to.

      That means that US citizens can be thrown into indefinite detention by the president of United States singlehandedly and US citizens have no legal recourse and they can't even be found out by anybody who is looking for them.

      That is a concentration camp.

      Obama becomes a dictator.

      This NDAA gives power to detain civilians by military, so this is a martial law.

      You are still completely confused, just as I explained the US citizens and others will be, which is ensured on purpose by the MSM.

      The SOURCES are given to you, is Democrat Senator not a good enough source for you?

      Obviously you are not an honest actor, otherwise I would have gotten a retraction for you here rather than this nonsense. You are not interested in the actual truth of the matter, see, you are not just a 'confused' person, you are being ideologically driven.

      As to me putting quotation marks around words like 'elected' - this means that it does not matter whether you elect this dictator and whether you elect the next one, what matters is that the line of dictators is selected carefully for you to 'elect' from.

      Good night.

    57. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've been avoiding the US since the Patriot act passed - there is no way I want to visit, work-in or deal-with (business wise) people from a country where as a "foreigner" they can lock me up and throw away the key without due process or oversight.

      Well, have we got good news for you! Now that NDAA's been passed, you've got exactly the same rights as a US citizen! :)

    58. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was detained for 12 hours in LAX for no reason upon trying to get through immigration, no explanation, no apology, I had the appropriate Visa and I haven't visited the US since I was child, never went to suspicious countries or joined any political movements, nor was I carrying anything out of the ordinary (Then again, they didn't search me) and I lost my bags due to the travesty known as "baggage collection" in LAX...

    59. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Pick your favorite slaughter group then. Almost every single major slaughter in history of mankind has been done by "patriots", with remaining ones being done by religious fanatics.

    60. Re:Geek perspective: websites by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Its much more humane to use hackable diebold electronic voting machines instead

    61. Re:Geek perspective: websites by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Look, crazy person. The law does not contain the very thing that you are claiming that Obama forced them to include. If I say that Obama forced the Sun to turn purple, and you look at the sky and see it is yellow, would you believe me?

      Here's the full text of the law.. The part you are concerned with is Section 1022.

      Part A lets the military detain suspected terrorists if they:
      A) Are a member of Al Qaeda or associated group that works in coordination with Al Qaeda
      AND
      B) Has planned or participated in an attack or attempted attack against the US or its allies

      This section was modified to allow non-Al Qaeda terrorists to be detained so long as the current president writes a letter to Congress explaining why that person is dangerous.

      READ THIS!!!
      READ THIS!!!
      However, it is still restrained by Part B which prevents the entire section from being applied to US citizens.
      READ THIS!!!
      READ THIS!!!

      Did you read it? Check the law yourself. It is right there, in plain English, black and white, iron clad. This law does not apply to US citizens.

      Now go take your meds, and stop spreading lies. I shouldn't need to do your homework for you.

    62. Re:Geek perspective: websites by grainofsand · · Score: 2

      I agree with this and would add one more observation.

      Americans confuse universal suffrage with democracy. They assume that because leaders are elected that it is a democracy. America has universal (well kinda sorta) suffrage but it is not a democracy.
       

      --
      A dream is good. A plan is better.
    63. Re:Geek perspective: websites by cavreader · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You have no idea what an "oppressive regime" is unless you have actually lived in one. The Patriot Act is the big bad boogeyman people use to support their far flung generalizations against the US for partisan reasons. The US citizens have not lost a single right guaranteed by the constitution or Bill of Rights and the right to be anonymous is not mentioned in any of these founding documents. There is a difference between privacy and anonymity. The ham fisted Patriot Act was a sloppy and rushed attempt to convince the general US public that the government was doing something to prevent further attacks after 9/11. And the public was demanding this action from the government. The world tends to hold the US to a much higher standard then any other country in the world in an effort to support a party line that does nothing but criticize US actions in any possible way. The US, like other countries, has it's problems but they are not as extreme as the people who denigrate anything associated with the US. The candidates in the upcoming elections support US reductions in both military and foreign aid and that is the most beneficial position the politicians have come up with for years. The US is already slowly withdrawing from the deliberations that concern the Palestinians and Israelis, they did not lead the charge in Libya and the US involvement only became necessary because none of the NATO countries were able to take down the air defense system. they have no intention of providing any help to the people in Iraq who started fighting one another the very first day the US left, they have offered only the generic diplomatic statements concerning Syria and Egypt, and their response to Iran's recent threats has been limited to the announcement that the US will not allow Iran to stop commerce in the Straits of Hormuz. When the US leaves Afghanistan and the natives start killing one another the US will not offer them any help either, they had their chance just like the Iraqis to implement positive changes and wasted it. The US is finally realizing there are no benefits when dealing with foreign countries on topics outside of commerce.

    64. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, Lyndon LaRouche has one thing in common with Hitler - he went to prison for his political activities too. However his effort to impeach Tom Ridge makes a rather poor "Night of the Long Knives".

      The guy that started this whole 1920s thread ought to at least read a library book on 1920s Germany. I recommend John Toland's book "Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography" but this is a really really long read. You might want to read the chapters that cover the subject in "Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War" by Patrick Buchanan.

    65. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Jessified · · Score: 1

      Then address the above problems. Again, you are simply arguing that the US government isn't as bad as say, Iran, and therefore it's not tyranny.

      All that is required is for a leader to be changed at least once a decade and then it's not a tyranny, amirite? Soviet Russia had frequent leadership, often less than a decade apart. I guess they were not a tyranny.

      I'm not saying the US is as bad as Iran [yet]. Yes citizens hold the right to vote [for now]. But to assume that it never can be is foolish. It's not uncommon for democratic states to fall into a dictatorship.

    66. Re:Geek perspective: websites by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      Most dictatorships start out looking good to the people. Hitler was seen as a hero. Castro was a man of the people. Dictatorships and fascism sneak up while people like you are pointing to straw men.

    67. Re:Geek perspective: websites by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So you call me 'crazy person' instead of taking back all of the nonsense that you've been spewing here.

      Fact - this section, that was in version 4 of the bill is not in the final version (7) of the bill, it's skipped.

      Let's look at the section that is missing from the final bill, and it's taken out by the order of the Obama and his administration:

      SEC. 1031. DEFINITION OF INDIVIDUAL DETAINED AT GUANTANAMO.

              In this subtitle, the term `individual detained at Guantanamo' means any individual who is located at United States Naval Station, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, on or after March 7, 2011, who--

                      (1) is not a citizen of the United States or a member of the Armed Forces of the United States; and

                      (2) is in the custody or under the effective control of the Department of Defense.

      you can continue with your propaganda, that somehow Obama fought the evil Republicans tooth and nail to prevent the bad things from happening to the US citizens.

      But he is the one who forced that section to be taken out, he is the one running the Gitmo concentration camp (as in a prison, where individuals kidnapped by a government force are placed without any lawful recourse, without ability to challenge their confinement in a court system).

      Sure, it says: terrorists, bad people, Al Qaeda.

      I say: anybody who a dictatorial 'elected' official deems to be a bad person, a terrorist, Al Qaeda 'member' or 'sympathizer' (or maybe a relative).

      Just a matter of fact - now POTUS kills so called Al Qaeda members and their children that are US citizens found abroad, given the new power it's just going to be possible to put people into military concentration camps without any legal recourse, including US citizens, eventually those who are in US.

      And I am crazy? OK, now good night, it's very late where I am.

    68. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As another Non American, I think you are speaking without knowledge of the world you inhabit.

    69. Re:Geek perspective: websites by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Though also bear in mind a lot of those holes are because the founding fathers never dreamed of the ability to wrangle words lawyers have developed today.

      I'm pretty sure that the guys that wrote and signed the US constitution were plenty aware of lawyers' ability to wrangle words. Those guys could have run rings around the lawyers of today when it comes to as you say, "wrangling words".

      Lawyers were invented well before the late 18th century, and I highly doubt that today's lawyers are more sophisticated at legal argument than the lawyers who were working back in the 1770s and 1780s. They would have eaten guys like John Yoo, Alberto Gonzalez and Antonin Scalia for breakfast. They'd have had chunks of Clarence Thomas in their stool.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    70. Re:Geek perspective: websites by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      So, they are not allowed to use the Internet.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    71. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. Palestinians are in a much worse situation than US Americans are.

    72. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      Hmm... Well you're probably right about the lawyers thing (I didn't bother to research it so I bow to your knowledge on the subject), but if the founding fathers could "run rings around lawyers of today", don't you think they would have taken the time to be more specific about the wording in the constitution? I think that many of the problems we have with rights today stem from the fact that a certain phrase is not worded in a way that is definitive.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    73. Re:Geek perspective: websites by artor3 · · Score: 1

      That's the section you're scared of? That section has nothing to do with what you claim. It's just setting a definition for what constitutes a detainee, for use in future sections. And it's not even removed from the final version!

      They just moved it!! It's now located in Section 1028(e)(2). Look for yourself!

    74. Re:Geek perspective: websites by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      but if the founding fathers could "run rings around lawyers of today", don't you think they would have taken the time to be more specific about the wording in the constitution?

      No, because the guys who wrote and ratified the constitution had a LOT of disagreements. We tend to think about the Founding Fathers as this group of guys who all had the same opinions, goals, agenda. It wasn't like that at all.

      Like today, their biggest concern was getting something that would actually pass - actually be adopted.

      The Founders didn't expect their Constitution to last 240 years. Franklin thought that there would be a constitutional convention before the turn of the 19th century, in fact. They just wanted to get it done and get on with it. That's why they left so much to be decided by future Americans.

      Maybe the biggest thing that the Founders did NOT forsee was the huge amount of corporate money that would impact future elections, and just how much it would cost to get elected in the future. They even made sure that the Post Office was subsidized so that there would be a medium for politicking.

      So now, I'd say that we ought to have a constitutional convention except for the fact that we'd be royally screwed because the richest corporations would have an outsized influence on the outcome and we'd get something infinitely worse than what we've got. No doubt about it, we're in a pickle unless we figure out a way to take the direct purchase of government out of the picture.

      It wasn't "the lawyers" who have messed things up for us, it's "the money".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    75. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only skimmed the bill, but it appears that this bill just prevents using appropriated funds for transfers of detainees from Guantanimo to their country of origin. It does nothing to allow a citizen to be placed there without trial in the first place. Which would be unconstitutional anyway.

    76. Re:Geek perspective: websites by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Of course according to that legislation the US has no allies as all other countries citizens are treated equally as less than animals would be treated in the US, making the US, enemies of all other countries citizens. So how can you attack an ally of the US when it has none under US law. Still a crazy bit of legislation making the whole rest of the world an enemy. Other countries would have to be insane to allow US military bases within their territory under those conditions.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    77. Re:Geek perspective: websites by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      I think this thread hit Godwin about 5 or 6 posts upthread.

      Semantic sidebar: is there an accepted method for referring to great-great-great-great-grandparent posts that isn't as clumsy sounding as what I just wrote? It's what I meant by 'upthread' but I can see that being less than perfectly clear.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    78. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes sense. There was a significant uproar when the Swedish military intelligence service started to listen all data traffic going through Sweden. Since major Nordic ISPs serve the governments of the area, the Swedish now tapped the neighboring governments data traffic. Although healthy paranoia is one probable reason for a nation such as Belarus to implement such measures as they probably fear some offshoot FSB group is going to assassinate their beloved leader, tax and law enforcement reasons are valid for a country with vivid mafia and other organized crime.
        SOPA along with tax, customs and "they took our joobsz" issues would make perfectly valid reasons for such limitations. Foreign hosting companies would simply rent offices from the state which have the best conditions for business and to register their tax status and business. Daughter company status would slightly complicate matters but that's a relative and conditional difficulty.

    79. Re:Geek perspective: websites by logjon · · Score: 1

      Godwin's law is such a crock of shit. Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to draw legitimate parallels between current events and Nazi Germany. "Those who cannot learn from history" etc. Invoking Godwin's law is not humorous, not clever and definitely not indicative of winning an argument. All it really does is make you look like a massive douche.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    80. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I don't even know what bigotry means.

      Sequoia or a giant redwood.

    81. Re:Geek perspective: websites by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      But not some "law" that limits access to web sites.

      Have you read what SOPA does?

    82. Re:Geek perspective: websites by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

      No, the USA is a democracy, but it is not a Republic, it is a Federation. Some of the US states are Republics, some are a Rechtstaat and some are Free States. These are all different political concepts.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    83. Re:Geek perspective: websites by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      We are already avoiding dealing with US companies, for various reasons. These new acts just add a few more impediments. In general, it is much easier and more cost effective to deal with Britain or Europe or any of the BRIC nations like Russia, China, Australia, South Africa and Brazil, than with the USA.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    84. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Belarus is a dictatorship with a history of human rights abuse. All bets are off."

      Look everyone, the yanks are trying to tell another country what to do again, so they can deploy their crap social networks (product of failed education system) there.

      Yanks = terrorists.

      End of story.

    85. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Being locked in a cell-room thing with no access to amenities for 12 hours is not normal, I had better treatment from the Vietnamese Soldiers managing Ho Chi Minh City Airport later on then I did in the US, or any of the other dozen countries I went to afterwards. If you think that's normal I think that says more about you and your culture then it does about me... my point was, they do detain people for no reason, if that's not being detained then what is?

    86. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Germany was a pretty nice place in the 1920s Weimar Republic, but it sure didn't take long for it to turn into a nightmare (mid-30s). So just because you think it's not likely doesn't mean it's not. Things can change drastically in 10 years. Take a time machine back to 1980 in the Soviet Union and ask anyone there if they think it's likely the SU will collapse and break apart in only 10-12 years, and they'd say no.

    87. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow record time committing a logical fallacy! Equivocating Belarus with the US within 30 minutes of the story being posted! Way to go!

    88. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in a dictatorship (I'm serious!), and can tell you that the US has been taking some interesting turns in the past 30 years. Slowly getting there unfortunately.

      So, unless you actually have lived in both the US AND have lived in a dictatorial regime or have visited one long enough to understand what that looks like, stop pushing your own agenda!!!

    89. Re:Geek perspective: websites by grainofsand · · Score: 2

      Democracy is government by the people. America is not governed by the people to the extent necessary for it to be considered a democracy.

      For example the majority of the most powerful and important government roles (Secretary of State, Treasurer, Secretary of Defence etc etc etc) are appointed - not elected. That is the opposite of democracy and is a situation that would never be tolerated in most of the world's actual democracies.

      I restate, universal suffrage does not equal democracy.

      --
      A dream is good. A plan is better.
    90. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Sosarian+Avatar · · Score: 1

      I find American political system quite peculiar.

      It's not a bug, it's a feature! (Or so we're told.)

      --
      Apathy Sucks, Nobody for President!
    91. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Magic is impressive, but now, Minsc leads! SWORDS FOR EVERYONE!!!

    92. Re:Geek perspective: websites by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Once SOPA passes, and US companies start to offshore both domain names and hosting, how long before a law like this passes here? Don't say it could never happen. A lot of "nevers" have happened in the past few years. I never thought US Citizens could be disappeared on US soil either.

      They aren't disappeared. They are sent to a terrorist country where they are made into a terrorist and then shot and killed by a drone. Much cleaner than the secret CIA prisons. Cheaper too.

    93. Re:Geek perspective: websites by thunderclap · · Score: 0

      You forgot California which tries its best to be a socialist paragon of virtue.

    94. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      er no
      Godwin did not come into effect until the 1930's

    95. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Godwins law is as solid as a rock, as you said there are pefect parallels between current events and Nazi Germany, so many in fact that such comparisons becoime inevitable in a long enough conversation. It's the douchey way its used by massive douches that douches it all up.

    96. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of AMERICAN CITIZENS

      Did you bother to read what the commenter wrote?

    97. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not really a tyranny when your leader is booted from office every 4, or 8 tops years

      Leader? With the way current laws are drafted and instantiated, POTUS is just a ceremonial title.

    98. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      That depends.

      Because they don't need to prove it or allow you to review whatever evidence they are working with.

      To cover section A:
      If they say '/. member artor3 is suspected of having ties with al qaeda', they can take you and that will be that. You might have spoken once to someone who thinks sharia law is a great idea. It doesn't even have to be true or believable.

      To cover section B:
      And you don't even have to be guilty because they can say you were -planning- to do something, otherwise why would you have googled the chemical composition of fertilizer (or whatever tenuous link they can make).

      That has A and B covered, unless you think that they would never accuse (rightly or not) an American citizen of being a sympathizer with Al Qaeda.

    99. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Akratau · · Score: 1

      Mmm-hmm. Australia, the lucky country - compulsory voting, media censorship, a reputedly highly bribable police force (I haven't tried that yet) and an Aboriginal population that is marginalised in the hope it will quietly obliterate itself. Great place to be though, wouldnt live anywhere else. Now, where's my uniform got to...

    100. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked together with a bunch of Belarus programmers. They once have been IBM, but then Belarus became a rogue state and IBM had to sell this division but still works with them. Highly intelligent people, but frightened to the bone. My god, they didn't even want to say anything about Belarus except that it's beautiful. Nothing about the political situation, not even something positive. Mind you, I've known some of them for nearly a year with constant drinking in the evenings (Consultants gotta do what consultants gotta do you know), we even had schaschlik once in a while.

      They were much more frightened that the typical soviet citizen was during cold war. It was like in fight club. Talk about anything, but NOT about Belarus. Only thing they ever mentioned was that "the Official" constantly tries to buy their highly profitable company and tries to insert spies into their workforce. Because in software consulting, the employees can work 6 months a year in western Europe, and that seems to pose a danger.

      I also spent 3 weeks in Minsk, coordinating work, and I have been completely shut off from anything except the hotel and the office. Shut off by our business partners mind you, to protect us from police, false taxi drivers and the generic ruffian. When I got outside, taking a walk, always with the big, nice, but REALLY BIG Dimitri, I understood why. My god, what a fucking regime.

      True story: Since their employees are forbidden to use linkedin or xing, our only contact was email and phones, and we haven't heard from them for like 4 years. Their company also has ceased to exist.

    101. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do we always have people who like to pretend they know what they are talking about. The US is a federation of states who together create a democratic republic. The problem comes when you try to stick a round peg in a square hole; making it mutually exclusive. The fact is, these ideologies are not mutually exclusive and are in fact, commonly complimentary.

    102. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Not when youre comparing the US to Nazi Germany its not. For the record--
      People groups slaughtered:
      US: 0
      Nazi Germany: several

    103. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Patriotism is just a euphemism for nationalism.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    104. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 2

      This law does not apply to US citizens.

      Do the principles of justice only apply to US citizens? Are foreigners no better than animals to us? This attitude of yours is almost as alarming as the NDAA itself.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    105. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      So really, they singular tyrant is a a group of 535 people, split over two bodies, in perpetual disagreement, who only have the power to partially implement laws, and no ability to enforce them.

      Thats some tyrant, there.

    106. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      And North Korea is apparently a republic. Hey, theyre just like us, right???

    107. Re:Geek perspective: websites by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Apparently you dont know what a straw man is, but regardless my point is that every time one of these stupid internet monitoring bills comes up people make claims like "If DMCA passes, the US will be just like North Korea!" And guess what, it passed, and we still arent North Korea, and now everyone knows that youre just an ignorant loon.

      Does it have some awful provisions? Sure. We can discuss that like adults. Are we Nazi Germany? No, we're not, and you drag the conversation into the ground when you assert that.

    108. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 0

      Of course I'm using my statements to push an agenda. That agenda is freedom.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    109. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Am I bigoted against patriots? Probably. I'm also bigoted against racists and homophobes. These days it's acceptable to hate the last two, but the first group is by far the most dangerous.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    110. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd have been weeping like the little bitch you are after twenty minutes.

    111. Re:Geek perspective: websites by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Apparently you dont know what a straw man is, but regardless my point is that every time one of these stupid internet monitoring bills comes up people make claims like "If DMCA passes, the US will be just like North Korea!" And guess what, it passed, and we still arent North Korea, and now everyone knows that youre just an ignorant loon.

      Does it have some awful provisions? Sure. We can discuss that like adults. Are we Nazi Germany? No, we're not, and you drag the conversation into the ground when you assert that.

      "A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position." (Pirie, Madsen (2007). How to Win Every Argument: The Use and Abuse of Logic. UK: Continuum International Publishing Group. ISBN 978-0-8264-9894-6.)

      So perhaps you should go back and actually read my post(s). I did not say we would turn into Belarus overnight with one law. I said that we keep moving further that way, and we keep getting closer. Go and watch the movie "The Hunt For Red October" and listen for the line as the Russian solder is dieing. He is talking with Sean Connery about crossing America with no papers. He can not believe it. Well, he was correct. You can not take a plane, train, or bus without papers now, and good luck driving across the country without hitting a checkpoint somewhere and having to show a license.

    112. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to belittle a whole nation then you should at least add some substance to your poo-flinging.
      On second thought, please don't.

      I read this line at work and scared my co-workers with hysterical laughter.

    113. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, he was threatening a VETO of that not because he thought the provisions stepped all over people's rights, but because the language did not give the executive branch enough freedom to execute these detentions without notifying congress.

      He wanted a veto not because the law was bad, but because he didn't get enough power.

    114. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Apothem · · Score: 1

      you forgot the natives who lived in the US first. The US is not totally innocent on that. I'm sure if you dug around a bit, you'd find something else too.

    115. Re:Geek perspective: websites by suutar · · Score: 1

      so as long as the US doesn't start killing its citizens in large groups, all is well? "1920s Germany" hadn't killed anybody yet either.

    116. Re:Geek perspective: websites by suutar · · Score: 1

      I suspect that in truth it's not actually patriots you dislike, but nationalists who use the term to justify extremism and supremacist behavior. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

    117. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By dragging out that wheezing old bit, you admitted to being a bigot yourself (and thus a hypocrite), and to doing exactly what I said you were doing. You can never take that admission back or prove it wrong in any way.

      Furthermore, you have not shown how patriotism resembles racism, homophobia, or any other form of actual bigotry - or even made any attempt to. You would have done this if you were capable of doing so. The fact that you didn't even try is absolute and irrefutable proof that you know you cannot. Therefore, it is proven beyond all possible doubt that you are not merely mistaken, but deliberately lying.

      The desperate, futile attempts you will now make at denying these incontrovertible facts will also be lies, and will be easily exposed as such.

    118. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reichstag Fire vs 9/11

      Decree of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State vs the Patriot Act

      Nazi Party vs Neocons, Tea Party, etc.

      The Afghanistan and Iraq wars (and soon Iran..), etc.

      "Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    119. Re:Geek perspective: websites by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      They're not a presidential republic. There is also no "us" either. I like in a "Parliamentary constitutional monarchy"

    120. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I believe they are one and the same. Patriots are biased in favor of their home land, which is a group they just happened to be born into by chance. It is just another form of tribalism, like racial and religious supremacy.

      Besides, in practice nearly all the self professed "patriots" are actually nationalists. Just remember the popular sentiment amongs patriotic Americans in the run up to the Iraq war. If you dissented, you must hate America.

      Really, is it too much to ask that we understand that we're all on this rock together? The lives of my countrymen are not more important than the lives of foreigners. What's important is right and wrong, not "good for America" or "bad for America".

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    121. Re:Geek perspective: websites by afidel · · Score: 1

      Huh? Inflation rates of 3.25 × 10^6 percent per month is NOT my or anyone's idea of a nice place! There are definitely some systemic problems that need to be addressed, but none of them look so dire that anyone with a solid understanding of history is predicting that the USA is in any kind of immediate threat of collapse.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    122. Re:Geek perspective: websites by afidel · · Score: 1

      Those roles serve at the pleasure of the President, he can and will fire them at any time if they do not conform to his ideals and leadership. They also must be approved by the Senate which is generally a formality but in periods of internal stress can become very difficult (see the current bickering over the office of consumer protection). The USA is not a pure Democracy, this is true, but it is also very intentional. The founding fathers were wise in seeing the folly in pure mob rule and built a system of Representative Democracy which it can easily be argued is superior to Direct Democracy. However there is one major problem as I see it and that is the ever expanding role of money and corporations in our political life. This is purely a modern phenomenon (the 1980 election between Carter and Reagan was funded through public dollars, it wasn't until 1984 during Reagan's reelection campaign that serious amounts of private money entered federal campaigns.)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    123. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe they are one and the same.

      You don't, actually. You just want to believe it, because it lets you pretend the world is a simpler place than it really is. This is the motivation behind all forms of bigotry, and yours is no different.

      Patriots are biased in favor of their home land

      Patriots love their home land. That does not require them to be biased in its favor, at least not in any sense that would make them "bigots".

      which is a group they just happened to be born into by chance.

      Then explain patriotic immigrants.

      It is just another form of tribalism, like racial and religious supremacy.

      It isn't, because patriotism does not require or imply a belief in the inferiority of other nations. Loving my country doesn't mean hating yours.

      Besides, in practice nearly all the self professed "patriots" are actually nationalists. Just remember the popular sentiment amongs patriotic Americans in the run up to the Iraq war. If you dissented, you must hate America.

      You are taking your own selection bias and coupling it with acceptance of the strawman argument put forth by the nationalists you claim to oppose. Ironically, your entire position on patriotism is predicated upon complete agreement with the lie that nationalism is based on.

      Really, is it too much to ask that we understand that we're all on this rock together? The lives of my countrymen are not more important than the lives of foreigners. What's important is right and wrong, not "good for America" or "bad for America".

      One can love America (or whatever other country you care to substitute) and still accept the above premise. They are not mutually exclusive or even at odds with each other in any way.

    124. Re:Geek perspective: websites by grainofsand · · Score: 1

      And again, you fail totally to understand what a democracy is.

      --
      A dream is good. A plan is better.
    125. Re:Geek perspective: websites by grainofsand · · Score: 1

      Some of what you say in indeed correct but I am surprised that you would argue against "direct" democracy - i.e. people ruling or that the role of money and corporations is a "modern phenomenon".

      The ancient Greeks were very much aware of the possibility that elections could be influenced by wealth or special interest groups. Their solution was ballot rather than election as with a ballot only the Gods could possibly interfere and that was "OK".
           

      --
      A dream is good. A plan is better.
    126. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Am I a bad person for hoping, through some Jurassic Park process, we can restore the lawyer eating forefathers and loose them on DC? "Many court-watchers feel this case would have gone differently had not restored Thomas Jefferson eaten Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia."

    127. Re:Geek perspective: websites by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Am I a bad person for hoping, through some Jurassic Park process, we can restore the lawyer eating forefathers and loose them on DC?

      You misunderstand. They were not "lawyer eaters", they were the most bad-ass lawyers of their day. They were the Cthulu of lawyers.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    128. Re:Geek perspective: websites by afidel · · Score: 1

      See here. As I said private money was not really involved in US Federal elections prior to 1984, there may have been some behind the scenes machine building in places like Chicago but for the most part money didn't enter into the election.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    129. Re:Geek perspective: websites by grainofsand · · Score: 1

      Can you explain then why both the 1867 Naval Appropriations Bill and the 1883 Pendeleton Acts exist?

      I can. Because as early as the 1860's was the issue of money distorting US Federal elections. Both acts sought to limit the ability of private funds finding their way into candidate's pockets.

      --
      A dream is good. A plan is better.
    130. Re:Geek perspective: websites by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      AAAAAAAAAND Godwin. I think we're done here.

      Bullshit. Godwin's law refers to comparing someone inappropriately to Hitler just as a childish insult. Simply mentioning historical facts about Nazis or the socio-political situation in Germany in the 1930s doesn't count.

      I suspect that those who wish to suppress such references are, in fact, neo-Nazis themselves.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    131. Re:Geek perspective: websites by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's looking more Orwellian for sure. 1920's Germany though is a stretch, I mean you don't really see masses of people rallying behind the government. Hopefully there's alot of my countrymen that feel as I do, and thinks the government needs a gut check.

      The point has been made elsewhere in this thread that 1920s Germany was BEFORE Hitler had gained power. It had severe problems which led to Nazism, but the point is that the US appears to be heading in the same direction. No one is saying that the US is like Germany under Hitler. Yet.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    132. Re:Geek perspective: websites by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yes, because if two situations aren't precisely alike, you can draw no meaningful comparisons whatsoever between them.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    133. Re:Geek perspective: websites by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      UK? The country with cameras all throughout London, and no right to bear arms?

      What is the US obsession with CCTV cameras in public places? If I murder someone under a camera on a public road, I suppose any actual witnesses should be ignored because they're invading my fucking privacy too?

      Oh, and very few civilised countries allow people unlimited access to arms, and those that do (like Somalia or Iraq) are not places I would like to live. Even in the US I don't believe you have the right to own actually useful weapons like cruise missiles or fighter aircraft.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    134. Re:Geek perspective: websites by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Its not really a tyranny when your leader is booted from office every 4, or 8 tops years, and you have freedom to vote for whom you want with no repercussions.

      The freedom to choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee is hardly the sign of a vigorous democracy.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    135. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Patriots love their home land. That does not require them to be biased in its favor, at least not in any sense that would make them "bigots".

      Of course it does. You essentially admitted it right there. They love their home land. Not because of any particular merit, but because it's their home land. So a patriot would love his home land, whether it's free or totalitarian. That's a pretty severe bias, and it's built into the definition of patriot.

      Then explain patriotic immigrants.

      Patriotic immigrants aren't really motivated by love of home land. They appreciate the practical benefits of living in this land. If they moved here and found no opportunity and only scorn, would they still love their country?

      You are taking your own selection bias and coupling it with acceptance of the strawman argument put forth by the nationalists you claim to oppose. Ironically, your entire position on patriotism is predicated upon complete agreement with the lie that nationalism is based on.

      You're going to have to walk me through this one. The strawman argument put forth by nationalists is "our country is the best". In what way does my argument depend on accepting that premise?

      Do I have selection bias against patriots? Quite possibly. I don't even know what a "real" patriot would look like.

      There are two possibilities I see. Patriotism could mean people who love their country whether it does good or bad. In that case, it's clearly not a virtue. Or patriotism could mean people who love their country because it has been good to them. In that case, it's almost meaningless. Who doesn't love institutions that have been good to them? In this case, it may not be harmful but I don't see any particular reason to laud it as a virtue either.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    136. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Svippy · · Score: 1

      It is not. They are closely related, but not the same.

      --
      Clicked pie.
    137. Re:Geek perspective: websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a patriot would love his home land, whether it's free or totalitarian.

      You're conflating love of the country with love of the government. If the American government were to be replaced today with a totalitarian dictatorship (and please spare yourself some embarrassment by resisting the urge to babble some variation of "it already has"), that would not mean that an American patriot would have to suddenly reverse course and start hating America, nor would it necessitate that he approve of the new dictatorship. It's possible he could do either, but it's also possible (and indeed more likely) that he would consider it his duty as a patriot to fight the new government however he can. Don't pretend you don't already know this.

      Patriotic immigrants aren't really motivated by love of home land. They appreciate the practical benefits of living in this land. If they moved here and found no opportunity and only scorn, would they still love their country?

      Doesn't matter why they love their new home land. They do, and that fact alone destroys beyond any hope of recovery your claim that they base their feelings on "a group they just happened to be born into by chance".

      The strawman argument put forth by nationalists is "our country is the best". In what way does my argument depend on accepting that premise?

      No, that's not a strawman at all (it's an opinion put forth as fact, a different fallacy entirely). The strawman I'm referring to is "patriotism equals nationalism", which you explicitly stated. A nationalist uses this strawman to try to emotionally blackmail patriots into adopting nationalism ("you can't be a REAL patriot unless you agree with me!"). You use the same strawman to justify your own bigotry ("you're a patriot, therefore you're a nationalist!"). You agree with nationalists, and completely accept their lie as the truth even though you both know it isn't.

      Do I have selection bias against patriots? Quite possibly.

      The selection bias is evident here: "Just remember the popular sentiment amongs patriotic Americans in the run up to the Iraq war. If you dissented, you must hate America.". You selected specifically for Americans who a)were patriotic, b)approved of the war, and c)claimed that (a) requires (b). You conveniently forgot that many patriotic Americans opposed the war (a but not b or c), and that many who were patriotic and supported the war understood that others could oppose the war and still be patriots (a and b but not c). And just so we're clear, by "forgot" I mean that you deliberately and intentionally lied by omission.

      I don't even know what a "real" patriot would look like.

      Yes, you do, you just don't want to acknowledge that patriotism is simply love of one's country and doesn't imply or require any of the things you're trying to assign to it.

      Patriotism could mean people who love their country whether it does good or bad. In that case, it's clearly not a virtue.

      First, whether patriotism is a virtue or not is beside the point. I'm simply refuting your false claim that it's bigotry.

      Secondly, do you have kids? Doesn't matter, let's say you do, that they're grown, and that like any decent parent you love them. If you found out that one of them had done something bad (and let's say something really horrible, like multiple rape and murder), would you continue to love them? If the answer is no, then you're wrong and you grossly underestimate the complexity of your own emotions. If the answer is yes, then you should be able to understand why a patriot could reasonably remain a patriot even after their country does something bad (and even that's being generous to you by ignoring the distinction between country and government as you did earlier).

      Also note that this possible definition of p

    138. Re:Geek perspective: websites by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      SCOTUS is supposed to uphold the law, which is the Constitution, but this also must mean it must uphold the Constitution completely, which means preventing new amendments from taking rights of people away that are guaranteed by the previous amendments

      That doesn't make any sense at all. There is not, and has never been, an understanding that new constitutional amendments are somehow limited in their scope by previous ones. Indeed, the whole elaborate and time-consuming amendment process is in place precisely because an amendment can make anything whatsoever the law of the land - one could turn U.S. into monarchy overnight, if the States would express such a desire.

  2. Thank you, Belarus by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thank you for providing us anti-SOPA people with a rhetorical example of an internet rights disaster that is less politically sensitive than China. (Also, it may be time for another revolution.)

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Thank you, Belarus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are welcome!
      We are always ready to be used by the Big Mouths like Peter Roudik from loc.gov (the origin of this whole story on Belarus).

      If this is what is needed for the "all-mighty-smarty-richy-shortsighty" Americans to realize what SOPA will mean for them, then please go ahead take our laws open them in Google-translate and read them backwards. After all we are the "declared" country on the "axes of evil".

      Such huge BS, just makes me sad.

  3. SOPA by kurt555gs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is different from post SOPA USA how?

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
    1. Re:SOPA by impaledsunset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      SOPA is a tool. If it corresponds to something in Belarus, it's the dictatorship itself.

      The ban on foreign websites as described is just a use of that tool and, yes, an example of how SOPA might be used.

      The possibilities that it opens are frightening, but it's not as bad as what's going on in Belarus already. And the Great Firewall of China might be a better example of how SOPA might be actually used.

    2. Re:SOPA by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

      SOPA plans to control the DNS, Belarus seems ready to do without it completely since there is no top-level DNS server for them to consult if this policy goes through.

      Its a matter of degree... you know... how much baby is expected to be in any quanta of discarded water.

      --
      Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
      --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  4. Trajic and misguided... by Coldmoon · · Score: 2

    This will do nothing more than work to isolate the Belorussians and stifle their growth going forward. Shortsightedness leading to stagnation in the name of security...

    --
    Coldmoon over Dark water...
    1. Re:Trajic and misguided... by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      Like the people in power give damn. Look at North Korea.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    2. Re:Trajic and misguided... by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Their growth forward most likely means a move to post-dictatorship. If you are the dictator or on his side this is a bad thing.

    3. Re:Trajic and misguided... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sadly, the "security" involved is that of the ruling political group, not the security of the population. "National Security" is NEVER about protecting a nation's citizens. Quite a few years ago I turned down a position as a system admin for the FEMA regional command center in Denton, Texas, because I had to have a Top Secret clearance. I couldn't reconcile why I would need a TS clearance to help coordinate relief and recovery operations in a disaster area. Then a older (read: more cynical) person explained to me that FEMA's charter was the maintenance of government, not recovery of the population.

      The first rule of political control is to maintain that control, and THEN make sure that your population is taken care of just enough to keep them under control. Quite often that means "bread and circuses", sometimes you take control of the popular religious structure, or you may have to take their children away to brain-wash them to view "the State" as their parent and subvert natural parent/child bonds with your own. In all cases, some measure of control over communication and information is required for any regime to maintain control.

      Welcome to "Cynical Political Science 101". Take a syllabus an hand the rest on to your neighbor.

    4. Re:Trajic and misguided... by OzoneLad · · Score: 2

      Look at North Korea.

      I can't. Google Maps won't show me anything but a blank map.

    5. Re:Trajic and misguided... by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      I thought you were joking at first... Was it always like that?

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    6. Re:Trajic and misguided... by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      This is Google's explanation. From two years ago.

      If it's blank now because Google is still not "satisfied with the map data we had available" then Bing Maps is kicking their ass in that area.

    7. Re:Trajic and misguided... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      binged it? As in, swallowed it down with too much alcohol?

    8. Re:Trajic and misguided... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't reconcile why I would need a TS clearance to help coordinate relief and recovery operations in a disaster area.

      When an over 1 km asteroid is about to hit or Yellowstone is about to erupt you can't talk to the press or somebody might get upset and temporarily camp around the Wall Street.

    9. Re:Trajic and misguided... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The other way to look at it is that the government needs to keep some version of law and order to prevent violent dog-eat-dog anarchy in the event of a disaster.

      But I know this is slashdot and everything teh government does is purely evil.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. Sensationalist Title! by Fireking300 · · Score: 0

    This basically prevents residents of the nation to buy / maintain a foreign TLD. It does not prevent people from accessing them.

    1. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Additionally, the Law states that the owners and administrators of Internet cafés or other places that offer access to the Internet might be found guilty of violating this Law and fined and their businesses might be closed if users of Internet services provided by these places are found visiting websites located outside of Belarus and if such behavior of the clients was not properly identified, recorded, and reported to the authorities."

      From TFA

    2. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Fireking300 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I overlooked that. Alright people downvote me!

    3. Re:Sensationalist Title! by aenigmainc · · Score: 2

      I guess there won't be any WOW players in Belarus

    4. Re:Sensationalist Title! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fortunately the country's benevolent leadership has created "Worlds of Belarus", which provides Belarusian youth with hours of endless online fun!

      Activities include marching, buying bread, and standing in line. As you gain experience levels, you can compare how short Belarusian lines are compared to those in corrupt western states.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Very misleading. I read the original in Russian, it says:
      1. It prohibits use or foreign registered websites for sales and services to Belarus people by Belarussian companies. No one prohibited Facebook or Google.

      2. Internet cafe owners could be held liable if they provide access to the list of forbidden (restricted) websites. Not for violation of this law.

    6. Re:Sensationalist Title! by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      So, certain foreign registered websites are illegal to use. Internet cafe owners will be prosecuted if they tell their clients which ones they are so they can avoid breaking the law. So they will all break the law!

      a diabolical plan! SPECTRE would be proud.

    7. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Replying to undo accidental mod.

    8. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't undo moderation (accidental or otherwise) by posting as Anonymous Coward!

    9. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > So, certain foreign registered websites are illegal to use. Internet cafe owners will be prosecuted

      Yes. Your sarcasm is misdirected. Lists of blocked websites exists in every country, including US an UK. If internet cafe refuses to comply with such list it will be prosecuted. No one blocked WOW, Google or any other regular website. The rest of the law regulates online business transactions between Belarus businesses in Belarus. Read the article.

    10. Re:Sensationalist Title! by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      Where is this list of blocked websites in the USA? Will anybody be prosecuted if they are told what they are?

    11. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Raenex · · Score: 2

      Where is this list of blocked websites in the USA?

      You have to wait for SOPA to pass first. In the meantime, there's always domain seizures.

    12. Re:Sensationalist Title! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you have no idea! You almost guessed the name, it is actually called "world of tanks". That is what belarusians have made for themselves and some other 18 million folks are playing online. http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12/08/world-of-tanks-tops-its-own-guinness-world-record/

      Btw, the whole article is BS. The author didn't actually read the source. I did and realized that every statement is just a pile of "sensationalism", which has nothing to do with reality.

    13. Re:Sensationalist Title! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I guess there won't be any WOW players in Belarus

      Every cloud has a silver lining.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  6. Clueless Government by assertation · · Score: 2

    Sound like a country determined to be poor.

    1. Re:Clueless Government by d4fseeker · · Score: 1

      The government seems to figure they rather be poor than dead, seeing that a lot of 2011's uprisings were successful.

    2. Re:Clueless Government by assertation · · Score: 2

      Governments that make sure their people have their basic needs met and a future can get away with a lot. Think of "bread and circuses" with the ancient Romans......or TV and beer with modern America :). That is something a lot of greedy, power hungry regimes haven't figured out yet.

    3. Re:Clueless Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      .....or TV and beer with modern America :). That is something a lot of greedy, power hungry regimes haven't figured out yet.

      As usual, the US leads the way for greedy, power hungry regimes everywhere :=)

    4. Re:Clueless Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Governments that make sure their people have their basic needs met and a future can get away with a lot. Think of "bread and circuses" with the ancient Romans......or TV and beer with modern America :). That is something a lot of greedy, power hungry regimes haven't figured out yet.

      It is funny how people always talk about "bread and circuses" in keeping citizens docile. If you provide citizens with their basic needs then they will become more discontent with political issues and what not. If you want to keep them docile then you have to make sure that they spend a lot of time gaining their "bread and circuses" so that they have no time to sit back and ponder politics...

    5. Re:Clueless Government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..... Think of "bread and circuses" with the ancient Romans......or TV and beer with modern America :).

      I believe the term is "Bread and Games"....

    6. Re:Clueless Government by caius112 · · Score: 1

      Clueless Government. Sound like a country determined to be poor.

      It's not a run-of-the-mill government/country. Belarus is the last openly declared dictatorship in Europe. I don't think Comrade Lukashenko gives a crap whether the people are poor or not.

    7. Re:Clueless Government by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Governments that make sure their people have their basic needs met and a future can get away with a lot. Think of "bread and circuses" with the ancient Romans......or TV and beer with modern America :). That is something a lot of greedy, power hungry regimes haven't figured out yet.

      It is funny how people always talk about "bread and circuses" in keeping citizens docile. If you provide citizens with their basic needs then they will become more discontent with political issues and what not. If you want to keep them docile then you have to make sure that they spend a lot of time gaining their "bread and circuses" so that they have no time to sit back and ponder politics...

      I think history will tell you that most revolutions come about when the people are unhappy. The point about bread and circuses is that they will keep most people happy.

      Politics only seems important to most people when it involves their immediate discomfort, for example going hungry or being denied access to bloodthirsty spectator sports.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  7. Dumbshits. by kheldan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you live in that country you may as well just stop using the internet completely then, since it's effectively not the internet anymore, just an extremely small walled garden. Anyone want to take bets on exactly how many weeks this continues before they rescind it? A move like this couldn't be good for any country's economy.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Dumbshits. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Do not worry. All violations of the law deemed convenient to the national economic interest, or carried out by suitably favored people, will simply be ignored for the sake of practical efficiency.

      Next time unlucky activist visits foreign NGO website? Visit from secret police...

    2. Re:Dumbshits. by gman003 · · Score: 1

      just an extremely small walled garden.

      More like an extremely large LAN with the most restrictive firewalls possible ("deny * from *" is a firewall, right?

    3. Re:Dumbshits. by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You assume Lukashenko cares about something other than his own personal fortune and control over his country. This is not the case.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Dumbshits. by tgd · · Score: 2

      If you live in that country you may as well just stop using the internet completely then, since it's effectively not the internet anymore, just an extremely small walled garden. Anyone want to take bets on exactly how many weeks this continues before they rescind it? A move like this couldn't be good for any country's economy.

      Maybe I misread it, but it sounded to me like Belarus companies have to use Belarus domains -- you can't run a site on ilovebelarus.com if you're a Belarus company, but a Belarus citizen can use any non-Belarus sites they want on any URL they want.

    5. Re:Dumbshits. by Pax681 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you live in that country you may as well just stop using the internet completely then, since it's effectively not the internet anymore, just an extremely small walled garden. .

      apple fans will LOVE it! :P

    6. Re:Dumbshits. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Any chance that we can convince them to head over and leave the rest of us alone?

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    7. Re:Dumbshits. by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Nope, you did misread it: It says that nobody can access any website that isn't hosted in Belarus, and you can't host your Belarus-based company's website outside of Belarus. Furthermore, they're going to censor Belarus websites as they see fit. So, no Google, no Facebook, no Amazon, no anything that isn't wholly contained within Belarus. They may as well cut all physical connections with the rest of the internet.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    8. Re:Dumbshits. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read it again

      "The law requires that all companies and individuals who are registered as entrepreneurs in Belarus use only domestic Internet domains for providing online services, conducting sales, or exchanging email messages."

    9. Re:Dumbshits. by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      The summary and the article itself are both misleading.

      I think what's happening here is that they are going after businesses to enforce this, versus pushing this onto everyone with a national "firewall" that China supposedly uses.

      So businesses are restricted to the Belarus TLD. And any businesses providing access need to restrict that access to Belarus TLDs. If you're on your home connection, it seems like you might still be able to go anywhere you want.

      But these distinctions are very confusing, and differentiating between a cyber cafe, which is mentioned in the article, and a regular ISP, is pretty hard..

    10. Re:Dumbshits. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. You can run ilovebelarus.com which sells postcards only on KGB datacenter.
      If you do not any economical transactions - you can run site everywhere.

    11. Re:Dumbshits. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Did you read the text of the original news story (in Russian)? Because it is precisely as GP has described it, and not at all like what you said.

  8. Belurusan World Web by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wow, someone doesn't understand World Wide Web do they? Why don't they just block all access out side of Belarus and run it like a big LAN.

    1. Re:Belurusan World Web by anomaly256 · · Score: 2

      Because the law says websites, not ftp or irc servers! Teehee..

    2. Re:Belurusan World Web by debrain · · Score: 1

      Gopher to the rescue.

  9. RTFA by the+linux+geek · · Score: 0, Redundant

    "Additionally, the Law states that the owners and administrators of Internet cafés or other places that offer access to the Internet might be found guilty of violating this Law and fined and their businesses might be closed if users of Internet services provided by these places are found visiting websites located outside of Belarus and if such behavior of the clients was not properly identified, recorded, and reported to the authorities. The Law states that this provision may apply to private individuals if they allow other persons to use their home computers for browsing the Internet."

  10. They're not banning people from using foreign site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're banning businesses from using foreign sites to operate. By not doing this, a large percentage of their economy will most likely be going to foreign interests.

  11. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wrong. From TFA: "Additionally, the Law states that the owners and administrators of Internet cafés or other places that offer access to the Internet might be found guilty of violating this Law and fined and their businesses might be closed if users of Internet services provided by these places are found visiting websites located outside of Belarus and if such behavior of the clients was not properly identified, recorded, and reported to the authorities. The Law states that this provision may apply to private individuals if they allow other persons to use their home computers for browsing the Internet."

    If you're not allowed to go to an internet cafe and visit slashdot.org without being identified and reported to the authorities, that sounds pretty close to being banned from using a foreign site to me.

  12. Not really, troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not really, troll.

  13. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Grishnakh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You've got to be kidding; this is the most idiotic thing I've read all day.

    The Tea Party is indeed full of nincompoops, but protectionism is the exact opposite of what they want; they want anarchy with giant corporations and their private armies making all the rules, much like Somalia. It's all about "the free market" and "The Invisible Hand", which just devolves into "the biggest bully wins", but to conflate this idea with protectionism and hating foreigners is just idiotic.

  14. I bet the US by future+assassin · · Score: 2, Funny

    will be right over to liberate the Belaruse people.... right over....any time now... oh they only have trees....

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:I bet the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Belarus is an oil producing and refining nation. 50% of recovered oil is exported. Very large oil shale deposits exist in Belarus.

      The imagined threat to oil rich nations by the US is a fiction you indulge as a well trained malcontent. People modding this troll up do damage to slashdot.

    2. Re:I bet the US by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      Belarus is reliant on Russian oil, They can't manage on their own. They also transport Russian oil and gas further west to the EU. Do you think Russia would like USA to invade one of their biggest oil exports?

    3. Re:I bet the US by cyfer2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even the name Belarus means "White Russia". Now I hope people could understand the relationship between Russia and White Russia better.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    4. Re:I bet the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      imagined threat to oil rich nations by the US is a fiction

      OK, now take off the red white and blue foil hat and think for a minute (even you can do it). Look at the last 25 years - the US is a military proxy under which certain financial powers (and the odd country) commit crimes against the planet. It is completely and utterly p0wned.

      Several other countries do the same, but the level of denial in god's chosen land is just off the bloody scale.

    5. Re:I bet the US by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      The land of White Red?

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    6. Re:I bet the US by klapaucjusz · · Score: 1

      Even the name Belarus means "White Russia".

      No, it means White Ruthenia . (Rus' as opposed to Rossiya.)

      --jch

    7. Re:I bet the US by voidphoenix · · Score: 1

      Both words refer to basically the same thing: Ruthenia, Rus (name), Russia.

    8. Re:I bet the US by vojtech · · Score: 1

      Actually, should you study the history and evolution of Slavic languages, you'd learn that it in fact means "swampy country", the root 'bel', now meaning white in many Slavic languages was used to describe swamps instead a thousand or so years ago.

    9. Re:I bet the US by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

      They named their country after a cocktail?! Classy.

    10. Re:I bet the US by Hentes · · Score: 1

      It's in Russia's sphere of influence, the hands of the US are tied.

    11. Re:I bet the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha, you truly made me laugh. You said that with such certainty that I believed my grand father completely wasted 20 years researching the origins of the name "BELARUS".

      Just in case, "white russia" is in fact the most common interpretation, but many believe it was spread during soviet times to opress the cultural roots of the belarusians. Historically, there is very little evidence that it was as simple as combination of two words, origins are most probably coming from the ages when Russia itself wasn't called that way.

      Oh, and btw, the article is complete BS. None of the statements are true. If you are interested, read the comments on engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/02/belarus-bars-foreign-websites-kuala-lumpur-wifi-eateries

    12. Re:I bet the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, Belarus means "bel" - white and "rus" - rus', "rus" and "russaia" not the same.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus'_(region)

    13. Re:I bet the US by cyfer2000 · · Score: 1

      I think the name white russia was not invented by soviet, because the Tsar was "The Sovereign of all Rus': the Great, the Little, and the White".

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    14. Re:I bet the US by jgagnon · · Score: 2

      That's pink... the land of pink.

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    15. Re:I bet the US by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Russia used to be known as Rus' (Kievskaya Rus'), the two words are the same.

    16. Re:I bet the US by Shompol · · Score: 1

      I would call this a shady hypothesis, at best. I know two Slavic languages but never heard of "swamp" and "white" having a common word. Your reasoning also breaks when it comes to explaining the name "Black Russia". In reality the name's origin has not been traced, all we have is the guesswork.
      References:
      http://old.pravoslavie.by/catal.asp?id=8641&Session=10
      http://rus-bel.ru/Belarus-Interesnyie-faktyi/Proishozhdenie-nazvaniya-Belarus.html

    17. Re:I bet the US by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It's in Russia's sphere of influence, the hands of the US are tied.

      I thought US won Cold War and destroyed evil Russian empire? So what's to be afraid of?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:I bet the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it doesn't.
      "bely" roughly means north-west.
      And "rus" has no relationship with Russia but comes from a tribe with that name.
      So it means "the Rus from the north-west".

      It gets misunderstood very often. And people from Belarus don't think it's very nice.
      Like writing Brasil with Z even though you're not in the US.

    19. Re:I bet the US by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Kievan Rus was a predecessor state to Ukraine and Belarus (via Grand Duchy of Lithuania) as well as Russia (via Grand Duchy of Muscovy). It doesn't really make much sense to state that Russia is Rus' exclusively.

      So, no, the two words aren't quite the same.

    20. Re:I bet the US by Shompol · · Score: 1

      I agree that my history references are weak and do not prove that the two words are the same. However, as a native Russian speaker I know that it is.
      Of course, even the natives are sometimes wrong, so here's an interesting article on the subject: http://www.patent.net.ua/home/news/2004/10/18/286/ru.html
      It says that Peter the Great renamed the Moscow [Duchy?] to "Russia" because of rapid growth of the empire and close political ties to the "Kievskaya Rus'". The name was later changed to "Rossia", but "Rus'" as it's origin should not be questioned.

    21. Re:I bet the US by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree. I wasn't disputing that Russia is etymologically derived from Rus' - in fact, "Rossiya" is simply the Old Church Slavonic calque of Greek "rossia", which simply means "land of Ros", "Ros" being the Byzantian adaptation of the original name "Rus" - so, as far as Byzantian Empire was concerned, Kievan Rus was also "Rossia".

  15. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Citation please, or shall I just label this 'Incredible BS'?

  16. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Tea Party does not want this here.The Tea Party is for a free and open internet and open source software! The Tea Party does not back SOPA! The Tea Party is not racist. The Tea Party is for a strong economy! Are you from china or any other country with a repressive internet policy?

  17. I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 0

    I think this is a hell of an approach for a country to ensure that it's business world doesn't try to offshore and outsource it's services to evade taxation.

    I think using a country TLD is also a source of national pride. The .com may be international, but not all businesses are international in nature.

    I was going to register a .ca myself, but I soon learned it's far more expensive to get a .ca domain than a .com. A .ca will have to wait until I can afford it, in the meantime the http://domain.com/tld-code/ approach will work, particularly as the concern is more to provide language options that country/region options.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That didn't make any sense at all. They can still outsource manufacture and operations if they like, just so long as their website runs with a Belarussian TLD and hosting. It's simple censorship being mislabelled as patriotic economics.

    2. Re:I like the approach by sirdude · · Score: 1

      I can only imagine that you're yet to recover from your New Year's binge.

    3. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Censorship? How is it censorship? They're not preventing anyone from doing business, only setting the rules for doing business. That's well within their right.

      The US-managed .com, .net, and .org spaces scare the shit out of a lot of people, especially with SOPA on the table.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    4. Re:I like the approach by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Censorship? How is it censorship? They're not preventing anyone from doing business, only setting the rules for doing business. That's well within their right.

      If you like it so much, could I suggest you go and live there?

    5. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Ah, the ad hominem attack. The favourite defense of someone with nothing useful to say.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    6. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Censorship? How is it censorship? They're not preventing anyone from doing business, only setting the rules for doing business. That's well within their right.

      They're making it effectively illegal to access non-Belarussian websites. How is that not censorship?

    7. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I don't see it that way. The way I see it, they're saying if you want to do business with our citizens, you must register your business nationally, abide by our laws, and use our TLD so people know your legally allowed to do business here.

      Unless they're stopping foreign businesses from registering TLD sites or starting local offices that can register the TLDs, I see NOTHING like censorship in the proposal. The world is NOT America's oyster.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    8. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      It's a hell of a lot more rational way of doing what SOPA tries to do.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    9. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Also, the Law authorizes the government to establish and update the list of banned websites to which access should be blocked by Internet providers. The Law mentions pornographic websites and those that contain information of an extremist nature as examples of those to be blocked"

        From what I've seen of the Belarus regime, this website would be extreme just for criticising the law and banned. This law is about censorship and controlling the population hiding behind protectionism.

    10. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accessing a website is not the same as doing business.

    11. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Being intentionally obtuse while making no arguments won't win you any supporters.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    12. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ahh... the ol "ad hominem attack" whinger. if you dont like personal attacks, what the hell are you doing on slashdot? you're a pussy. how about that for "ad hominem". why don't you just call it personal attack anyway? oh i know probably cos its the only way you can satisfy your sorry ass ego with bullshit latin that you've merely taken from other slashdot whingers who are yet to lose their virginity. btw belarus kicks ass! ftw

    13. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      Look, having a .com, .net, .org, or .edu does not mean you are legally entitled to do business everywhere in the world. There are still local laws you have to follow.

      Mandating a country-code TLD registration and a local business presence is a perfectly valid requirement for doing business with the citizens and organizations of a country. And it provides a clear indicator to users of the internet as to whether a website owner IS complying with local law.

      I'd MUCH rather see this approach become standard than SOPA or the Chinese approach to censorship.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    14. Re:I like the approach by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      And what SOPA tries to do IS censorship. TFA says that individuals accessing a foreign websites will be guilty of a misdemeanor, and that letting someone access foreign websites on your computer may leave you liable. That is straight up censorship, and it's a completely idiotic law. SOPA is idiotic too, though.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    15. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing obtuse in what I said. The law bans access to non-Belarusian websites. Everything you've said in support of the law has been on the basis that it requires businesses and business transactions follow Belarusian law. I was point out that the two things are wildly different. That really wasn't so hard to figure out was it?

      But I suspect you knew what I meant, it's just easier to drag this into semantic wordplay than to admit your viewpoint is illogical.

    16. Re:I like the approach by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 1

      I'd MUCH rather see this approach become standard than SOPA or the Chinese approach to censorship.

      False dichotomy. It is not necessary that we choose between these; there still remains the option of an open Internet, despite what some would have you believe.

      --
      Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
    17. Re:I like the approach by pitterpatter · · Score: 1

      Being intentionally obtuse while making no arguments won't win you any supporters.

      What?! Have you never listened to talk radio? Or politicians?

    18. Re:I like the approach by burisch_research · · Score: 1

      Hey msobkow has a really great point here -- that using non-US tlds conveniently bypasses SOPA in every meaningful way. Howabout we all migrate to .tv ? <trollface/>

      --
      char*f="char*f=%c%s%c;main(){printf(f,34,f,34);}";main(){printf(f,34,f,34);}
    19. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      So I guess you're in favour of dictating to the nations how they're going to do business with the world?

      They have no right to demand you follow local law?

      They have no right to demand you pay taxes on products or services sold in their markets?

      They have no right to demand you open a local office?

      You just register a .com and an offshore company somewhere, and you should be free to rape and pillage the globe as you see fit?

      Pfft. Your blind acceptance of the American-dominant perspective that the US can do whatever they want is pathetic. The world does not have to do things your way, no matter where the DNS root servers reside.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    20. Re:I like the approach by pmontra · · Score: 1

      One of the effects will be no more Belarus people getting jobs on freelancer.com. The freelancers from the rest of the world will rejoice because of the slightly reduced competition.

    21. Re:I like the approach by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 1

      So I guess you're in favour of dictating to the nations how they're going to do business with the world? [...]

      First of all, doing business and viewing websites are not the same thing. This is a censorship law masquerading as nationalist economic policy. Secondly, none of those things you say require this law. A country can put tariffs and customs fees on imported goods to protect local economies if that is truly their intention. Having a .com TLD, or any other for that matter, is unrelated to whether a company follows local laws or not.

      Pfft. Your blind acceptance of the American-dominant perspective that the US can do whatever they want is pathetic. The world does not have to do things your way, no matter where the DNS root servers reside.

      I'm not American. Nor is the entire Internet besides Belarus. But thanks for the ignorance-induced lecture on US hegemony.

      --
      Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
    22. Re:I like the approach by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I disagree completely. The .com, .org, and .net TLDs are your public, global websites. They're available to anyone. But having them redirect to a .cc TLD is not difficult, unreasonable, or uncommon.

      This is NOT censorship -- it's a nation telling you what you have to do if you want their business. You do NOT have the right to shove your advertising, your business, your website, or anything else down the throat of the world just because you have a .com.

      I call it an American-dominant perspective because it's mostly American-owned companies that use and want the .coms broadcast to the globe. Well, guess what, the globe does not have to let you do that.

      I'd rather see the Belarusians allow the .com, .net, and .org TLDs as well, but I adamantly and absolutely defend their right to determine their own rules for doing business in their society. If that means no more twitter, no more google, and so on, so be it.

      It's no easier to implement http://mydomain.com/cc than it is to register http://mydomain.cc/. Your cries of censorship are misguided and dictatorial to nations that want you to follow their rules. Who the hell are YOU to tell them how you are going to do business with them? THEY set the rules for their nation, not you.

      You are, of course, free to skip serving their market.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    23. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, why don't you go marry Belarus if you love it so much?

    24. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather see the Belarusians allow the .com, .net, and .org TLDs as well, but I adamantly and absolutely defend their right to determine their own rules for doing business in their society. If that means no more twitter, no more google, and so on, so be it.

      You aren't sticking up for the Belarusians' rights; you're sticking up for the rights of their government to increase its own power over them. If you really cared about the Belarusians' rights, (namely their rights to free speech, freedom of association, and freedom of access to information and ideas) you'd be opposed to this.

    25. Re:I like the approach by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      No one has the right to tell anyone else how to traverse the Internet, period. The Internet is not the government's to do anything with (unless they own a part of it in which case they can do whatever they want to that part--server, router, switch). We already have laws that address everything anyone could ever possibly do illegally on the Internet. No more laws need to to be made about anything. The most refreshing action a government could take is: NOTHING. The stink of the Peter Principle is think in the air; instead of taking care of real issues like enforcing laws and managing the aspects of the economy they ARE responsible for they continue to muck around with shit that is not of their domain--a real circus.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    26. Re:I like the approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh dear, you know nothing of what you speak. He in fact will be way better off coming to live here once the SOPA is passed and you start filling it personally.

      Welcome to Belarus, pips! It really isn't so bad here.

      And btw, the whole thing is a hoax, the article is total BS, simply because the author didn't care to get a proper translation of the law. I would like to remind everyone that Google-translate is really not a proper reference for such politicly charged articles. None of the statements on limitations of the Internet in Belarus are correct.

    27. Re:I like the approach by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Do DHL do rape and pillage express deliveries?

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  18. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

    I get the impression that this only applies to commercial transactions... So visiting Slashdot alone probably won't run afoul of the law, but donating money to Slashdot might.

    Either way this law is ridiculous. Trade is a good thing; they're basically cutting themselves out of the global market.

  19. Alexander Lukashenko by sirdude · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those who are unaware, Belarus is ruled by a turd named Alexander Lukashenko. He's been their president since 1994 and initially increased presidential term limits from the standard five years to seven and later removed presidential term limits altogether.

    Some of his memorable moments include:

    1. He warned that anyone joining an opposition protest would be treated as a "terrorist", adding: "We will wring their necks, as one might a duck".
    2. Addressing the "miserable state of the city of Babruysk" on a live broadcast on state radio he stated: "This is a Jewish city, and the Jews are not concerned for the place they live in. They have turned Babruysk into a pigsty. Look at Israel—I was there and saw it myself ... I call on Jews who have money to come back to Babruysk."
    3. "My position and the state will never allow me to become a dictator, but an authoritarian style of rule is characteristic of me, and I have always admitted it. You need to control the country, and the main thing is not to ruin people's lives."

    ... and so on.

    In other words, such stories while shocking are, IMO, hardly surprising ...

    1. Re:Alexander Lukashenko by dkleinsc · · Score: 0

      "My position and the state will never allow me to become a dictator, but an authoritarian style of rule is characteristic of me, and I have always admitted it. You need to control the country, and the main thing is not to ruin people's lives." -Alexander Lukashenko

      "I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." - George W Bush

      I'm not suggesting Lukashenko is a great guy, just that politicians in developed nations aren't demonstrably different than their counterparts in former Eastern Bloc countries.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Alexander Lukashenko by bfandreas · · Score: 2

      He is the last dictator on the European continent and one of the most despicable persons ever treading into a dog turd. If he died today the reaction wouldn't be as polite as with the death of Kim Jong Il. If he were on fire he would be doused by being wanked upon by any passer-by. I actually think of his mustache burning up in a kerosene propelled fire as sexually arousing.
      The really intersting thing here is(hence the dog turd reference) that lukasenkos is actually the ancient Greek name for the shade of white a dog turd becomes once it has bleached sufficiently in the sunlight.
      Now why would such a great man like him shun anything that has to do with freedom of speech? I can not imagine why.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    3. Re:Alexander Lukashenko by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Another fun fact about Lukashenko is that he has dissidents incinerated, their ashes mixed with spunk and fecal matter and rubbed into his mustache. Which when you come to think about it explains a lot.
      The man has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    4. Re:Alexander Lukashenko by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likewise, I'm not suggesting that Bush is a great guy (or even a decent one), but I'm pretty sure that remark from him was tongue-in-cheek.

  20. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are not banned from using foreign sites, however you are banned from allowing others to use foreign sites on your computer. It is stated quite clearly in the law. The reason for this is not as clear.

  21. no iran and / or NK may be the next place to get by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Funny

    liberated!!

  22. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are allowed aa little contradiction. No reason they cant be against regulation in general for their economic policy while still wishing to oppose unamerican influence socially. As political contradictions go, that barely even registers.

  23. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    It's unknown how accurate the summary in TFA is, but if my quote above is correct, that sounds like a lot more than just commercial transactions. Of course, it could be a stupidly-written law that meant to only apply to commercial transactions, but that's irrelevant as the law's text is what's important, but again, the accuracy of the article is unknown; it's common for "journalists" these days to totally screw up basic facts.

  24. Re:Tea Party wants that here by __aagujc9792 · · Score: 1

    I see that protectionism is something you are against, as am I. Hail fellow, well met!

    Do you agree with me that no moral case can be made for further impoverishing workers in poor countries to further enrich incredibly rich (by world standards) US union members?

    It's not that I don't get the politics of protectionism, I just have this little conscience problem when I consider the big picture.

  25. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

    Control. If everyone is breaking the law, you can arrest anyone at any time for any reason.

  26. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by 0123456 · · Score: 1

    The reason for this is not as clear.

    Presumably it's the same reason why typewriters were so strictly controlled in the 'good old days'; so they can send the secret police around to whoever is found accessing an evil foreign web site and arrest the owner of the computer.

  27. Re:Tea Party wants that here by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

    This is exactly the type of laws that protectionists and tea party activists want. They hate foreigners, and want to force people not to interact or trade with them.

    If you are going to spout mindless drivel like this, please use the term "tea-baggers" so we can filter you more easily. Thanks!

  28. is Belarus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    some form of Slavic word for 'idiot'?

  29. smart move by r00t · · Score: 1

    Imagine this were the USA and Western Europe situation: there is no www.google.com, yro.slashdot.org, www.facebook.com, or similar. Everything you do in in the *.cn domain, with IP addresses assigned by the Chinese, and physically located in China. Would that be a good situation for the USA or Western Europe?

    It's no different for Belarus.

    (bummer, because I **like** the USA having more control over Belarus)

  30. worldoftanks.com becomes worldoftanks.by ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder how this will affect the World of Tanks and other computer games put out by Wargaming.net [Wikipedia] since their development center is in Minsk, Belrus.

    1. Re:worldoftanks.com becomes worldoftanks.by ? by pmontra · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but changing the server name won't be a major problem. The Belarus players instead are going to be cut off from any game server on a non .by domain. I'm afraid that the list is long.

  31. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I can assure you the politicians controlling the Tea Party want nothing to do with any regulation or protectionism. You might find some common people who identify as TPers who might be in favor of some protectionism, but they don't control anything. As soon as one of the politicians tells them "protectionism is bad! regulation is bad!" they'll change their minds.

  32. Re:Belarus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No. You are stupid.

  33. We're Number Two! by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Funny

    We're Number Two! We're Number Two!

    Yeah, Baby! We are now only the second stupidest country on the planet regarding writing Internet laws that completely misunderstand how the Internet works. Thanks Belarus! You've shown that our politicians are not quite the most ignorant twits in positions of power on Earth!

    1. Re:We're Number Two! by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Don't be so loud, our politicians might take that as a challenge and try to retake first place

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    2. Re:We're Number Two! by PPH · · Score: 1

      Too late. The clown car that is the GOP candidacy already considers that gauntlet to have been thrown down.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:We're Number Two! by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Don't be so sure of that. The runners-up position for Dumbest Online Lawmaking is heavily contested. European countries are uppin teir spiel and are currently heavily training in boot camps to out-stupid the US.
      Ah! It's a truly splendid sight watching nations sparring in noble contest who can shit the biggest law without rupturing the anus.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
  34. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Hatta · · Score: 1

    You don't have to lie about the Tea Party to make it look bad. They can do that quite well themselves.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  35. Re:Belarus? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

    Yea, just the other day I went to www.baidu.cn and the secret police arrived and arrested me.

    Seriously, what are you smoking?

  36. this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    I actually like this, which is weird, because I wouldn't have thought so. But it makes sense that in order to benefit from all of the various business-related incentives that your country may provide, including your business licence in the first place, that you continue to spend your money domestically.

    I run a business in Canada, and I use Rackspace out of the U.S.A.. I've very happy with Rackspace, as anyone should be, they are indeed fantastic in every way. But I feel guilty for not remaining in Canada, and do wish that they'd open a Canadian datacentre. Recently, I've found a worthy Canadian competitor, and simply cannot justify the transitional effort.

    But I'd appreciate such a law. Sure it would cause momentary distress for me and for my business, but I think it would improve competition amongst my competitors, and also attract foreign suppliers -- Rackspace included.

    1. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you are a retard. And I would like you state that you DO NOT represent what this country stands for.

      If you have a "guilt trip" over your own affairs, maybe fix them so you don't have a guilt trip rather than imposing your ill thought out ideas on others.

      BTW, the laws states quite clearly that ANYONE accessing foreign hosted websites is to be tracked and reported as such activity is ILLEGAL. I can't believe someone would even support such tripe idiocy.

    2. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's protectionism pure and simple. Protectionism usually backfires and hurts the economy of the protectionist country.

    3. Re:this is a great law by macraig · · Score: 1

      You actually think this is intended to legitimize national incentive programs? You apparently live in a cloud yourself.

      This is about CONTROL, and not in a good way. If the domain and physical servers are IN Belarus, then the government can monitor, tap, censor, and otherwise control everything that resides on or passes through them. I expect the proximate goal is to stop dissidents from using the Internet to communicate, collaborate, and organize.

    4. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      yes, I'm supporting it being illegal. I like the idea that my country, and those within it, actually support it. what a concept. but hey, I'll vote my way, you vote yours.

    5. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      sure, there it is, you're right. But this law in Canada would work quite differently. it actually would be to support incentives. quite frankly, it wouldn't be a law so much as an incentive program.

    6. Re:this is a great law by macraig · · Score: 1

      This is Alexander Lukashenko we're talking about here... of course I'm right! And an incentive program designed to encourage localized network economic investment is a LOT different from what this law is going to do.

    7. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you're being such a fucking retard, I'll paint this in black and white: No facebook. No google. No wikipedia even. God dammit you're such a fucking retard. You are the reason VX was invented. Shit for brains....

    8. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      a) I can live without those. none of them is essential to anything I do.
      b) most of them have a canadian presence
      c) they all can. it needn't be a big one, just one large enough to support or to relay to the canadian market

      oh boohoo, I won't have one search engine over eight other perfectly fine search engines. and instead, I have more wealth in my own country.

      i think you need to remember that while your priorities are correct when contained within the internet, there are reaching consequences that actually matter in the real world. you know, like property value, homelessness, employment rate, exports, food, independence, and community. each of those is hindered when my money goes out of the country for something silly like facebook -- something which can easily be home-grown.

    9. Re:this is a great law by pmontra · · Score: 1
      No slashdot for you if that happens. Assuming that you're here because you are a technical person working in the software market as an exercise for the next days try to note down all the sites you wouldn't be able to see, all the blog posts you wouldn't be able to read, all the reference material you wouldn't be able to access, all the search results google shouldn't show you, all the software you couldn't download, all the startups you'll never know about, all the ideas you won't be exposed to. I bet it will be a long list.
      I read in your replies to other posts that you're from Canada. Don't forget all the people from outside your country that should register a .ca email just to communicate with Canadian citizens. Imagine the trouble for Canadian companies working with foreign customers or suppliers. A law like that would build a bubble around your country and everybody in there will more or less disappear from the Internet. Is that going to harm the development of your skills? Probably yes. Is that going to harm your income? Not much initially if you only work for the domestic market. Is that going to harm Canada in the long term? Definitely. Cutting themselves off from the world is a recipe for becoming a backward country.

      PS: I'd love to read Cory Doctorow's take on your idea ;-)

    10. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just move to China. It will be your paradise.

    11. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      careful. we're not talking about my never accessing anything outside of the country. we're talking about my choosing canadian suppliers over foreign ones.

      in canada, that always takes the form of "if there are comparable suppliers".

      microsoft exists in canada, I'm sure, or can with the flip of a switch. there's also no business alternative to microsoft products, nor alternative documentation.

      also, I'd be allowed to buy both. as long as I also get the domestic alternative, I could have whatever foreign one I want.

      and as a small business myself, it would be great for business. instead of competing with the world at large, I'd only need to worry about my own country competitors. so I wouldn't be competing with countries where people get slave wages, and I wouldn't need to wait for clients to finish getting screwed by $4/hour romanian programmers.

      cory's got a lot of good points, but no solution to any of his stated problems. so take it for what it is, an observation, not a course of action. much like the occupy protests forget that the banks get most of their money from the protesters directly, and that most of their employers borrow large sums of money from the same banks, there's a cycle that needs to be noticed to be understood.

      of course there would be huge differences. but since my country hands out large amounts of money to businesses like mine, it seems silly to then not have those companies be successful. why would I want to fund other companies who will likely lose to foreign companies?

      think about this. there are countries that have book stores. populations of a total of 1 million humans, many of whom buy books. that country can't possible afford to have book stores who profit from sales when those million humans can buy from amazon at half the price. so, throw out the book stores.

      it's not unfair, why shouldn't people buy from amazon.

      the problem is that no one locally can beat amazon, because amazon benefits from a world market, whereas the local bookstore can't.

      so, kill the local book store. that's fine.

      the trouble is that every industry and market becomes like that. in every country, for everything.

      so the u.s. will sell marketing services, and movies, not manufacture anything.

      canada will produce oil, comedians, and medical research, but not books, nor movies.

      so no one in the u.s. will do anything blue-collar.

      specialization can work. it's great in organisms. but it fails when distances are involved.

      the choice that I'd support is one to allow any canadian to have any type of career, without needing to move to another country to have it.

    12. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I like canada. and this type of thing would improve canada. that's the idea of being a citizen -- to help improve your country.

    13. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, boohoo, I won't have slashdot to announce by support for no more slashdot on.

    14. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be against slashdot. I'd simply be encouraging slashdot to open a business licence in Canada, and to follow canadian laws. nothing difficult. I want slashdot to be a member of my country too.

      and if they chose not to, which they're welcomed to do, then I may or may not take offense. but in the end, there are plenty of alternatives to slashdot. I think they'd all be better if this law came into play, that's all.

      see, it's about improving my country. yes that comes at the expense of other countries which may currently be stepping on my country's economy. how could slashcanada possibly compete with slashdot, when slashdot has way better financial benefits, and is in a country where things are much cheaper?

      think about it this way. my excellent health care actually makes slashcanada more expensive than slashdot to run. how's that fair to slashcanada? the fact that another country, spends less money on health care, has more homelessness, more unemployement, a lower education, a lower life expectancy, and a poorer standard of living results in their businesses having an easier time relative to my country.

      it's not about fair. it's about what we want. and what we want is to improve our country. and our country would be improved by prefering to keep our economy running internally.

    15. Re:this is a great law by pmontra · · Score: 1

      Ok, understood. You're not advocating for a law like the one in Belarus but for some form of autharchy. That's something difficult to mandate by law without breaking some WIPO treaty but who knows what will become of then anyway if the financial crisis gets really ugly. But everything I described is true for the people in Belarus. Some won't care, some will even profit from it, but others will be turned into oppositors.

    16. Re:this is a great law by pmontra · · Score: 1

      O k, understood. You're not advocating for a law like the one in Belarus but for some form of autharchy. That's something difficult to mandate by law without breaking some WIPO treaty but who knows what will become of then anyway if the financial crisis gets really ugly. But everything I described is true for the people in Belarus. Some won't care, some will even profit from it, but others will be turned into oppositors.

    17. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      right. and yeah, what I'm suggesting has huge consequences if ever put to use, and would need a whole host of boundaries and cascades to avoid becoming what it is in belarus.

      but that's the point. just because it's done poorly elsewhere, doesn't make it a bad option. it makes it a bad implementation. we can do better.

    18. Re:this is a great law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get this. In effect, what you're advocating is a segregated network, bounded by national borders. I can understand enforcing the .ca domain (The Netherlands has a similar policy concerning government websites), but not the banning of all non-.ca domains.

      Why would you ever want that?

    19. Re:this is a great law by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      not a segregated network. a requirement that canadian business only pay canadian suppliers. so canadian suppliers are only competing with canadian suppliers.

      otherwise, canadian suppliers are competing with u.s.a. suppliers, which doesn't make any sense, since u.s.a. suppliers don't provide anywhere near the benefits that canadian ones do.

      as it stands now, canadian suppliers lose out in competitive manners directly because we have a better society in terms of health care, education, preperty values, and more. so we sit in an awkward situation where every societal benefit -- ultimately paid for by businesses like everything is -- hurts those businesses in the global marketplace.

      think about what would happen to the existing u.s.a. commercial market if every business suddenly had to pay twice as much tax to cover the country for health insurrance. then remember that we have a few dozen other such things as well.

  37. The actual law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The actual law says that if you trade in Belarus, your servers should physically be in Belarus (pretty scary, if you ask me), and they should be "properly registered" (whatever this means) with the state. This registration requirement may or may not force you to use their ccTLD, I cannot find any information on this.

    It also says that if you let others to use your network, you must identify your users and keep logs for one year. You also must not let people access stuff that is illegal to access. I think this one is close to what they have in some parts of Westen Europe.

    1. Re:The actual law by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      There are lots of scary interpretations of the law, but I can also see that the Belarus government would imagine that this might create hi-tech jobs in-country (managing the servers) and provide some form of security in so much as their national businesses could continue to run if for any reason internet access were cut off to the rest of the world (like for example they decided to cut their people off from the world)

      --
      Nullius in verba
  38. Re:Tea Party wants that here by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

    Apparently its strawman day on slashdot. I wait with bated breath to see the next one.

  39. Well .. by Wabbble · · Score: 1

    This is plain stupid. A human will not stand and stare. A human will stab and be fare. It's just a matter of time.

  40. Fake News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article is false and misleading. Try using Google Translate before jumping to conclusions. The restrictions that are being put in place are no different than ones already implemented in places like China and the Middle East.

  41. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently its strawman day on slashdot.

    Are you suggesting that it ever isn't?

  42. Re:Nothing to discuss here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From headline (I am not even talking about article itself): The law requires that all companies and individuals who are registered as entrepreneurs in Belarus use only domestic Internet domains for providing online services...

    You're not talking about the article because you didn't read it. Here:

    Additionally, the Law states that the owners and administrators of Internet cafés or other places that offer access to the Internet might be found guilty of violating this Law and fined and their businesses might be closed if users of Internet services provided by these places are found visiting websites located outside of Belarus and if such behavior of the clients was not properly identified, recorded, and reported to the authorities. The Law states that this provision may apply to private individuals if they allow other persons to use their home computers for browsing the Internet

    Are you done, or do you want to humiliate yourself further?

  43. Place your bets by tarlek · · Score: 1

    $5 says that this won't apply to Alexander Lukashenko, his cronies, or anyone else in a position of power in the government of Belarus.

  44. That's Different! by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    We're a democracy! That means that the vast majority of the people agree that the internet as we know it should be destroyed, because the RIAA and MPAA aren't making enough money! Because of piracy! Likewise, we've decided that suspending miranda rights and indefinite detention without a trial or chance to confront your accusers is A-OK! I know that China is rubbing their hands gleefully because they think they can point at us as an example of moral rightness and claim they're just following our example. But it's different! Because here, EVERYONE decided that, while over there the Communist Party did! You see how it's different, right?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:That's Different! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not a democracy. Democratic republic is an oxymoron.

    2. Re:That's Different! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I had mod points, I'd give them. I hope people read your post a couple of times, so they fully grasp it:).

      Please mod parent up!

  45. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I never quite understood why the focus on typewriters; if someone wants to write something the government doesn't like, it's easy enough to just get a pen and some paper, right? Yes, handwriting can be identified, but it isn't that hard to change your writing into something different from your regular handwriting; write in all-caps, for instance, or practice using your left hand.

  46. Sattelite VCR Mimeograph Permits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    May this measure be as successful as previous er, "strong democracies" that forbade and required permits for radio sets, mimeographs, typewriters, cameras, ... and, later, VCRs, sattellite dishes, cellphones, satphones, etc.
    In other places at this date, being functionally literate, or able to apply any level of critical thinking, automatically makes one suspect.
    Not to mention "laws" equivalent to the one the Nazis passed when Prussia became theirs, that allowed police to arrest people on the accusation of "walking suspiciously". Papier, Bitte?

  47. Who is getting paid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It specifically mentions entrepreneurs... in other words small business. This smells like a ploy to prop up a local ISP (monopoly or state-controlled?) by forcing small businesses to use them for email, hosting, and domain registration.

  48. Any military option is completely out of question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because Belarus is a member of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organisation

    A war against Belarus means a war against Russia.

  49. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Gilandune · · Score: 1

    I am left handed, you insensitive clod!

  50. Re:Tea Party wants that here by Skapare · · Score: 1

    I have yet to see ANY of the Tea Party candidates come out and say SOPA is bad law, will veto it if it comes to them when in office, and if it gets passed before they take office will refuse to enforce it and pressure Congress to revoke it.

    I have heard from a second-hand source that Ron Paul is against it. But he's not Tea Party.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  51. Belarus: A real fine model for China to follow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next thing you know the dictators in China might just copy from their Belarusian counterparts

  52. Go troll somewhere else. by Joe+U · · Score: 1, Troll

    The US citizens have not lost a single right guaranteed by the constitution or Bill of Rights and the right to be anonymous is not mentioned in any of these founding documents.

    You are either a decent troll or a fucking idiot. Stop claiming that the US Constitution grants us rights, it in no way grants rights. The Constitution is a framework to define and limit power of the Federal government AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE.

    How dare you claim that some person, people or document granted me my rights as a human being. That notion is vile and disgusting.

    1. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You think you have rights? Now, you're the fucking idiot. The only right granted to any living being is to live by its own means. If you can't figure out how to do what you want without dying, well, that's just too bad. You can take your chances with your rights or you can live how others tell you to.

    2. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by cavreader · · Score: 1

      The Constitution and Bill of Rights are the basis of all other rights.

    3. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by Sosarian+Avatar · · Score: 1

      Depends on what level we're defining them as existing. My impression is that the Constitution/Bill of Rights formally recognizes that humans have specific rights on a moral/ethical level, and outlines the government in a way that protects them.

      --
      Apathy Sucks, Nobody for President!
    4. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by nharmon · · Score: 1

      The Constitution is a framework to define and limit power of the Federal government AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE.

      That has not been true since 1868, when the Constitution was made to limit the power of the States as well.

    5. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by Joe+U · · Score: 2

      I don't think it's open to impressions or interpretations. It's very clearly spelled out what the Bill of Rights is and what their intention was.

      IX. The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

      X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

      If the intention of the amendments were to grant rights, then 9 and 10 would not be necessary, or they would use terms like specific and defined rights.

      The intention of the Bill of Rights was to set a series of rules that the government can not break. The fact that they find ways around most of them I chalk up to human nature. We are still seeking a more perfect union.

    6. Re:Go troll somewhere else. by cavreader · · Score: 1

      My position is that they both formed a solid starting point on which to build a country on. It's never been a perfect system but name one that is. I am still astounded that the so called founding fathers of the constitution were able to create the constitution in the first place. A constitution that was engineered by the white wealthy landowners with very little participation of the regular people. Can you imagine any of today's US politicians ever producing a document like the Constitution? The current crop of politicians can hardly agree on the day of the week.

  53. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never quite understood why the focus on typewriters; if someone wants to write something the government doesn't like, it's easy enough to just get a pen and some paper, right? Yes, handwriting can be identified, but it isn't that hard to change your writing into something different from your regular handwriting; write in all-caps, for instance, or practice using your left hand.

    Handwriting - written in all-caps - is uniquely identifiable. Opposite-hand is probably identifiable too, but it's excruciatingly slow to write.

    The focus on typewriters was to make sure that anonymous speech - anybody could be behind that keyboard, after all - was restricted to a single device. Simultaneously, steps were taken (samples of text were typed before delivery and linked, on paper, with the serial number of the typewriter that produced them, and the sale was tracked) to ensure that the device wasn't anonymous. The "registered" owner of the typewriter was the one who got the knock on the door in the middle of the night.

    Modern analogy: Anyone can post as an AC on Slashdot. But the government runs the only ISP in town, all IPs are static, and can cross-reference traffic between your IP and Slashdot (or Tor, etc), and the timestamp of the post on Slashdot.

  54. when we have putsches by paramilitary groups by decora · · Score: 1

    then i will agree that the US is like 1920s germany.

    not saying it couldnt happen. just saying... im not convinced. WWI was fundamental to the german experience in the 20s, with masses of ex soldiers bitter and angry at society.

    we do not have masses of ex soldiers - they make up a tiny percentage of the US population. there are unlikely to be putsches by people who spend their late teens playing skyrim instead of being involved in trench warfare and forced to starve on the street unless they join some paramilitary brigade.

  55. Less SOPA-like than it may seem by qxcv · · Score: 1

    The truth is that in countries like this, all you need to do is throw a few shiny dollars the way of the police and nobody will ever enforce the law. I highly doubt such a small country has the necessary resources to enforce something so insane anyway.

    --
    "The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough." -- Eric S. Raymond
    1. Re:Less SOPA-like than it may seem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you are wrong. These kinds of laws make many automatically a criminal. That status is then used by political structures to jail whoever they want to jail for whatever reason. This is very serious stuff. ... Also economic hardshipts are part of the resent (last year) unrests. So people do not have the shiny dollars to throw.

      The truth is that in countries like this, all you need to do is throw a few shiny dollars the way of the police and nobody will ever enforce the law. I highly doubt such a small country has the necessary resources to enforce something so insane anyway.

  56. Not one now. Just possibly one in the making. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course the US is not a dictatorship.

    It is however, a culture with quite repressive mores on sexuality, an increasingly partisan and divisive electorate that is slowly killing interest and participation in democracy, a culture that is more interested in assigning blame than creating solutions, an unstable and stratifying economy with a distinct distrust of socialist solutions, a history of militant aggression towards other nations and of popular support for military spending, great fear and loathing of Islam (a rival, external religious / ethnic force), a growing apathy towards human rights violations (e.g. torture, indefinite detention, repression of protest), etc.

    If you don't see the parallels to 1920s & 30s Germany, then you are not a very good student of history. After all, the Weimar Republic was a democracy too before it collapsed, and America itself almost fell to the same pressures during the Great Depression. We dodged the bullet once. Don't assume we always will without vigilance.

  57. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Opposite-hand is probably identifiable too, but it's excruciatingly slow to write.

    Well you don't have to do it all at once. I mean, do your first draft in normal handwriting so you can get your thoughts down quickly (have a lighter handy in case you need to burn it though!). Then, either you or a cohort use opposite-hand writing to rewrite the paper.

    And as you pointed out, typewritten text can be tracked to the typewriter that wrote it. With handwriting, surely they didn't have a national database of everyone's handwriting to compare against (and definitely not opposite-hand). Unless they had their eyes on you already, intentionally bad handwriting should be pretty good for anonymity, whereas it's easy for a repressive government to track typewriter sales. After all, how are they going to figure out which of 10+ million people is the suspect just based on handwriting? Now of course, if you're already suspected of being a subversive, it'd be harder, but still it isn't that hard to forge someone else's handwriting. Sure, it's slow, but are you writing a novel the size of War and Peace or just an article for Der Spiegel?

  58. America is NOT going Nazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American here.

    No, it's not like 1920s Germany, because even the Nazis were idealistic in their own fucked up way. "Kill those other people" is a political platform, as stupid as it is.

    In America we don't have anything like that. I know, I know, some of you are going to trot out some Republican quotes, but Republicans only get somewhere around half the votes, and even when they gain ground they always accrue backlash. Even Democrats beat the Republicans half the time; that's how weak Republican support is. America doesn't have the passion or will to commit to racism anymore; it's just not worth the effort to care.

    The purpose of our federal government is entirely to do whatever is most profitable for campaign contributors. That can vary widely, but "kill those other people" is almost never as profitable as "steal from those other people." We'll tax, then we'll spend without tax, sometimes taking income and sometimes taking assets. It's all about sucking America dry. The Nazis had a different thing going on than that.

  59. So what by luk3Z · · Score: 0

    Belarus Bans Use of Foreign Websites but US seizure domains without judge decisions.

    --
    Recipes for USA bankrupt - http://tinypaste.com/0d66f dd = dollar deluge (printed in the infinity)
  60. Pls Support Tor, BitCoin, fight against SOPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By the way, Slashdot, why are you preventing comments here to be posted from a Tor network? Making it easy for Lukashenko to find who to jail ?

    I was trying to read find the actual law in Russian or Belorussian, but going through Belorussian main sites -- such as tut.by -- nothing is mentioned there
    http://news.tut.by/politics/1

    Only reference I found is here

    http://www.interfax.by/news/belarus/101604

    The law if I read the English article, essentially prohibits Belorussian businesses to allow their clients (and themselves) to use non-belorussian websites.
    Since access to internet is through a business -- the law makes everybody in Belarus who uses Google an unwilling accomplice to a criminal act (while the actual business a 'willing one' )..

    Furthermore, in Belarus -- like in any 3d world country people try find additional sources of income when possible. That includes for example selling things that you bought (or where give to you as a present, or you bought with a purpose of re-selling). That kind of environment makes everybody an 'eligible business' -- and therefore to be under this law

    There are some also interesting comments at the end of http://www.interfax.by/news/belarus/101604
    One of them talks about -- AntiVirus. Antivirus programs rely on for example external websites to download the updated virus definition files , these programs are on business computers -- so part of the business and participating.

    Last year, Lukasehnko made a law that no more than 3 people can gather together
    http://www.rosbalt.ru/exussr/2011/11/12/911681.html
    Furthemore, it is not allowed to post information on the intended gathering on the web or cell networks

    Clapping was used a a silent form of protest -- it is now prohibited. See this youtube clip especially starting from 0:41

    Basically, the country is screwed -- I do not think anything that can be done -- except running away from that place.

    I would rather see Belarus be part of Poland (or Russia, but better Poland) -- what's there now does not make sense and its geo-political and demographic situation does not make sense for it to be an independent country.
      Asking the belorussians to fight for their freedom with bare hands-- is asking too much. Many will die without any support and at the end -- if the country wants to be still indepdent -- it will not make it.

    Other facts:
    Belarus is not oil producing country, but oil-refining. It is landlocked, has no access to ports. Belarus has very close relationship with Iran, helping them in many different areas with technology.
    Most of the radiation from chernobyl ended up not in Ukrain, but in South east Belarus (because the winds where blowing that way on April 26 1986)
    Therefore 10 fold increase in child thyroid cancer (this is just one of many horrible things for the Belorussian people to endure)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17891238

    When Lukashenko came to power, he overtime, dramatically increased the pay and benefits to the 'military and other 'force structures' -- to ensure deep contempt and support by the ones in the uniforms.

    Since the readership on slashdot is so diverse -- will use it a soap box to ask for the following

    a) do not allow to remove term limits. And also actually do what you can to have them be put in place for any political post on Federal or large state or huge city level (Bloomberg should not have been allowed to extend his rain for the 3d term as a mayor of new york, Chavez and Lukashenko (all made sure they removed any term limits by a 'referndum' ).

    b) support Tor networks

    c) support bitcoin and similar

    d) fight against SOPA or any government involvement in social media

    e) may be controversial -- but pls support the right to own functioning firearms by citizens.

     

  61. Technically no by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    This is not a Godwin. 1920 Germany was a country in a big crisis that had a lot of debts because they were in war before. That triggered a hyperinflation and a lot of radical political moves, but it wasn't anywhere near the situation Godwin is all about.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Technically no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not a Godwin. 1920 Germany was a country in a big crisis that had a lot of debts

      A lot of debts, eh? Uh oh... So... We've got about 13 years left?

  62. Visa, MasterCard, Skype, websites of foreign banks by Max_W · · Score: 1

    The law is not balanced. It would mean that websites of Visa, MasterCard, Skype, websites of foreign banks, where many influential people have got accounts, would be illegal.

  63. Re:Tea Party wants that here by will_die · · Score: 1

    You probably will not, unless it leads to increased taxes it is not something of wide interest for that lobbying group.
    A quick search shows various Tea Party local groups against it, such as http://clevelandteapartypatriots.blogspot.com/2011/12/obamacare-for-internet-stop-sopa-now.html

  64. Skiing abroad by Max_W · · Score: 1

    We saw on TV that leaders are skiing in European countries, for example, in Austria. How can they go there without using foreign websites to book a hotel or an airline ticket? Without using foreign payment systems, which also do have websites?

    Or it will be again like in the USSR: all people are equal, but some are more equal?

    1. Re:Skiing abroad by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Don't they mean that local companies must host their webpage locally? Not that their webpages can only be viewed locally?

    2. Re:Skiing abroad by Max_W · · Score: 1

      It is very difficult to distinguish local company from non-local. A Visa card may be used locally, but it is not local. Many rich people there have bank accounts in foreign banks. They keep there money, which they earned locally, spend them locally, but check accounts via web applications of these banks abroad.

      Or if 2 people speak via Skype in 2 cities inside the country, but it does not make Skype a local company. The list of such examples is endless. It is a complicated world by now.

  65. Plus... by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

    Since there are no DNS servers in Belarus, apparently they are not allowed to use URL with non-numeric host parts.

    I really wish I had a magic wand so I could selectively grant people what they ask for in _full_measure.

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  66. Re:SOPA is easy to get around eventually... by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

    _eventually_ we will use the following system for DNS:

    (1) A DHT that anybody can add records too. There can be as many entries for MacDonalds.com as people care to add.

    (2) DHT participants will use rotating port numbers as both servers and clients.

    (3) Most participants will encrypt all inter-hash-node traffic.

    (4) "Real" (e.g. useful) DNS entries will actually be found by Public (e.g. PGP) Key Fingerprint (or even full key).

    (5) Key or Key Fingerprint records will automatically be pruned and rejected from the DHT if the are not signed by the public key referenced by the fingerprint or key they claim to represent.

    (6) A key record may contain aliases to alias itself out to names like MacDonalds.com

    (7) in most cases the so-called "top level domains" will be meaningless and you will only see MacDonalds.

    (at this point, nobody has to "control" the DNS records. name records are advisory and signed records are of "higher quality".

    (8) Banks and real institutions will regularly use QRCode, and physical tokens, and Apps, and App Tokens to pass PGP Key Fingerprint style host-part URLs around. (And maybe people will start using their home-pages and bookmarks for their original purpose, to keep an online repository of links useful to themselves as opposed to others.)

    (9) "Smart" clients will require the information comming from a site to be signed with the key issued to the DNS record.

    (10) There will be key echanges built in, by RFC or by common use of X- headers, to most non-trivial network requests such that each respondent will be provided wiht the key to use to encrypt the message body to the peer. In particular it will be de-regur to encrypt the first request sent via a key-located DNS record with the body encrypted uing the key from the DNS record. The first message will include his own public key in the encrypted body and the server will respond by creating a session with the associated key(s) and so forth.

    (11) Someone will introduce "keyed:" as a transfer prototype where it is essentially defined as identical to "http:" but the entire message stream is encrypted in both directions, the initiator must determine the key to use before transit (see the DHT and other public key repositories) and any message may include a key to set/change the key for future messages in that stream.

    (12) Trusted sub-communities will form inside corporations and associations where inter-DHT-participants will pass initialization keys around on QRCode business cards. The sub communities will export their record groups but selectively filter imports and only from "high quality" peers. This last bit will be to prevent DOS "malicious record submission" attacks. Eventualy this will be used to get around the government firewalls as getting a 3x5 card into the hands of one dissident will be enough to establish a fresh sub-community on a wholly different set of transit particulars over the same system.

    (13) Modems will make a limited come-back to provide the out-of-band handshakes for final key validation etc. ...

    Oh it will take a while, and the first implementations will be slapped onto the side of the bittorrent "magnet link" facility and so on, but one abuse at a time the free part of the internet will adopt it, and then some cutting edges companies will jump on thinking to "capture" the "fringe market" and it will all come to pass.

    I like inventing systems like this, and this system would be almost trivial to code using existing bittorrent DHTs etc, but coding them is tedious, so the first implementation(s( are left as a excercise for the reader.

    Trivial details may vary.

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  67. Sneakernet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just read a story (in German sorry) about underground media in Belarus that is distributed as a PDF via burned CDs or USB sticks. It seems to work pretty well: http://berlinergazette.de/weissrussland-internet-freiheit/

    Stopping that would require banning digital technology altogether. I hope they can find a way to get rid of that dirtbag.

  68. Re:Belarus? by fafaforza · · Score: 1

    Yes, that's right. Because Romney, Ron Paul, Gingrich, et al were all sentenced to 16 years in prison for running against Obama in the next elections.
    Don't be silly.

  69. f*u*c*k your m*o*t*h*e*r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ,what are waiting four a*m*a*r*i*k*a ,g*o*g*o*g*o

  70. Easy choice by Joe+U · · Score: 1

    I'll take my chances then.

  71. Re:Godwin by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

    "While falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose their argument and/or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.[10] Similar criticisms of the "law" (or "at least the distorted version which purports to prohibit all comparisons to German crimes") have been made by Glenn Greenwald.[11]"

  72. Re:universal suffrage does not equal democracy. by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    From what I remember of civics class, It's good that we are not a true democracy, otherwise we'd be suffering from "Tyranny of the masses". Which, after witnessing how many Americans believe in god and that they are superior to everyone in other countries, frankly scares me.

  73. The good, the bad, and the ugly... by Genda · · Score: 1

    The good news is that this is unsustainable and will ultimately collapse. A country that tries to protect its authority by blinding itself to the worlds advance, is operationally doomed. It might take a year, it might take a couple generations, but such a country can't compete at any level on a world market, and will have less and less to offer as one by one they deplete their natural resources.

    The bad news is that before they fold, a lot of innocent people are going to suffer horribly. Sadly, the kinds of things one can do to try to remedy such a problem child are few, and will have limited impact.

    The ugly part of this mess is the complex relationship between Russia, Belarus, and the rest of eastern and western Europe. Many of the complexities of oil trade and other less legal trade going in and coming out of Slavic countries are bolstering these dictatorial regimes. Its perhaps time to question any kind of trade with a nation that eat its own young.

  74. The 14th amendment. by Joe+U · · Score: 1

    It can be argued that the constitution limited the powers of the states well before the 14th amendment. An example of this is that the states can't declare war. So, establishing the federal government pretty much sets limits on the states by default. Since the states ratified the constitution, they agreed to limit their powers in line with the federal government framework.

    That being said, the 14th amendment was quite a power grab, albeit a necessary one at the time.

  75. Re:no iran and / or NK may be the next place to ge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aahhh! That felt good!

  76. Re:universal suffrage does not equal democracy. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    That is the argument of fascists, right wingers, conservatives and freedom-haters over the ages. Well done for parrotting a trite argument foisted on you by your economic and political masters.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  77. Read the law first. by monas · · Score: 1

    The text of the law (in Russian) is available here: http://www.pravo.by/pdf/2011-134/2011-134(010-029).pdf (first page, registration number 2/1869).

    Google translation of subject matter bellow:

    "Article 22.16. Violation of requirements for the use of the national segment
    Internet
    1. To work on the sale of goods, works and
    services in the territory of the Republic of Belarus with the use of information networks,
    and resources with an Internet connection is not located on the territory of the Republic of Belarus and (or) not registered in the prescribed manner -
    punishable by a fine for an individual entrepreneur or legal entity
    in size from ten to thirty basic values.
    2. Violation of the requirements of legislation to implement the identification
    subscriber units in the provision of Internet services and (or) users of Internet services
    points of the collective use of the web services, recording and storing information about the subscriber's devices, personal data of users of Internet services, as well as information about Internet services rendered -
    punishable by a fine of from five to fifteen basic values.
    3. Breach of the law to restrict user access inernet services to the information gap for distribution in accordance with
    legislation -
    punishable by a fine for an individual entrepreneur or legal entity
    in size from ten to thirty base units.. "

    So, I don't see the problem for person in Belarus to log into amazon or gmail as long, as it is performed for personal, educational or other non-commertial purposes. Problems starts if you want to do business and your systems are outside of the country. And this most likely affects businesspeople from other countries visiting .by.

    Of course, it is Belarus. And how widely this law will be [ab]used remains to be seen.

  78. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    It seems to be a mistranslation of the Russian original, which only makes Internet cafe owners guilty of violating the law if they allow their users to access (and do not report if accessed) websites that are specifically banned according to court decision because of "extremist" materials or pornography. There is a distinct provision that further requires providers to "identify users and equipment" and to "log activity" (regardless of materials visited; it also says nothing about "reporting to authority"), and makes them liable if they do not make this happen. However, there's nothing in there saying that any foreign website is banned.

  79. Re:They're not banning people from using foreign s by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Gotta love it when news articles are just downright wrong because journalists are incompetent.

  80. Confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems that the author has made incorred several incorrect assumptions regarding Internet regulation in Belarus.

    Trying to explain things in short, the hosting requirement is applicable only to Belarusian legal entities and entrepreneurs. Only Belarusian residents can be fined and (approx EUR 32 to EUR 96), but not to Internet users trying to access websites violating the Edict.

    There are no legal obstacles for any Belarusian resident to operate a website under international top-level domain names (.com, .net, etc.) or national domain names of other states (.ru, .ch, it. etc.).

    Neither visiting foreign websites is considered as a violation nor has any of foreign websites been blocked as both these measures are not prescribed by the Edict.

    For correct understanding, please, consider the true-to-life (or at least the most objective) legal interpretation of the current Internet regulation in Belarus, available at belarusial lawyer (Aleksey Ponomrev) Blog dedicated to Information Technology law and Internet regulation in Belarus available at www.ITlaw.by