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Microsoft Scraps 'Where's My Phone Update?' Site
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft disappointed some Windows Phone users on Friday by saying it would stop providing specifics about who will get software updates and when, and announcing vaguely that a new update is 'available to all carriers that request it.' The update fixes a few issues, including one that caused the on-screen keyboard to disappear and another that caused problems with synching Gmail. Eric Hautala, general manager of customer experience engineering for Windows Phone, said Microsoft will no longer say when people will get updates based on their country, phone model and carrier."
yea cause there is no way an Android phone would never get updated, you just have to do a sudo apt-get install and your cupcake turns into a ice cream sandwich
Microsoft, Google, or Apple ... who do you want to get fucked by today, and will it really matter tomorrow?
They took the phone manufacturers and carries out of the update process. When they release their updates, users of current and recently released devices get the update which they can apply. The other mobile OS makers need to make the same sort of change or they fear annoying what users they have left.
Microsoft just discovered that carriers prefer to NOT update phone software. Just like with android phones.
So, I'm guessing you're one of the lucky few that got carrier upgrades/ an unlocked bootloader / manufacturer upgrades?
Android's situation in this case is actually worse than Microsoft's
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
Just speaking from my experiences with Blackberries, the slowdown always seems to be on the Telco's end. There had been many important updates which were put out by Blackberry... but ATT wouldn't release them for a month, or sometimes a few months, after Blackberry released it.
This is, once again, another example of why these companies need to be "dumb pipes" through which we access the internet. There's no practial reason we can't have a phone which simply connects to the internet for all it's needs, aside from the Telco's blocking it from happening.
What happened to phones that Just Work? I don't want to update my phone. It must be reliable, just like an analogue wire line phone used to be.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Microsoft has a monopoly on phones? When did that happen? I think you'll find that the 'open' Android is much closer to a monopoly. Then again most of us using Android are in the same place as the Windows Phone users. Manufacturers and Carriers would rather sell us a new phone.
"OS updates manditory" was one of the great selling points they had over Android, now it's "OS updates available to carrier on request". Yeah.
I predict Windows Mobile "fragmentation" stories and much gnashing of teeth.
http://www.businessinsider.com/android-activations-2011-12
"The other mobile OS makers need to make the same sort of change or they fear annoying what users they have left."
Boggle.
Indeed. This was most likely Carrier X getting tons of 'bad calls' from customers because they knew that Carrier Y had already delivered updates etc.
We can't have competition with real data to back up the customer now can we
Actually I can do an apt-get whateverthefuckiwantincludingmoo on my Nokia N9.
Thank you.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Which is likely one of the smaller reasons why maemo/meego on phones was killed in the crib.
I hate to say it but I'd prefer Microsoft to the phone companies.
the first update affected by this policy change benefits a competitor. what severity is the gmail bug which this patch claims to address?
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
If the reviews on Amazon are any indication, most people are pretty happy with their Windows Phones. The top 3 highest reviewed phones are all Windows Phones.
Why don't geeks have the ability to understand consumers? is it like a lesion in the brain that simply blinds them to everyone not like them? As someone who builds and sells all matter of electronic gizmos to the consumer I'll be happy to tell you why they really don't give a shit how locked down a phone is, you ready?
Get this, it'll blow your mind...a phone is not a computer to them you see, not at all, its "A screen with buttons that Googles and is disposable" and that's IT. That's all it is, its a screen with buttons that does Google and they throw it in a drawer when their contract is up and get another one. This is why the carriers can do any damned thing they want, because a phone is just a phone to the consumer. Its also why they don't care about Windows on a tablet because a tablet is not a computer its "a screen i poke that does Google, lets me read books and plays Angry birds" and I can tell you with most of the consumers I've seen they rarely use it for even Google, its a fancy book reader that plays Angry Birds. same as ARM and MIPS netbooks won't go anywhere because a netbook is not a general computing device its a "cute baby laptop" and as such should do everything a big laptop does only slower, because babies are littler than grown ups and so not as strong you see?
So you see its isn't about Linux VS MSFT VS Apple or any of that shit, not to the million upon millions actually getting the things, its a phone that does Google. You wanna know why iPhone is so popular? It looks cool and plays lots of games real good like...Angry Birds. Do you think even 10% of them can name what OS it runs? And people like my dad are getting Android not because they give a flying fuck about freedom to tinker, they saw "that cute little green dancing thingie" and it looks nice and plays Angry Birds. this is why MSFT is having a hell of a time getting into mobile because people see the Windows or MSFT name and think "Why would I want Windows on my phone? I don't want to play Farmville or the sims on my phone" and they ignore it. You see consumers are strange and curious creatures, nothing like the geek in any way shape or form.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
If the sales on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011 are any indication the top three selling are all Android phones.
McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
The Ford F-150 is the top selling car in the country, does that make it better than an Infiniti G37?
also, there should not have staged update for their phones. one of their big selling point was that every update was to be delivered to anyone on the release day
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/11/windows-phone-7-updates-can-carriers-block-them.ars
and then carriers bitched and moaned until it all changed for worse.
Is there a reason why the customers cannot put up such a page themselves? Just have a wiki where people can enter when they got updates, based on country, carrier and phone model. There's not even a need to have that page restricted to Windows phones.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Better questions, since when is Microsoft disappointing Windows Phone users news?
If the reviews on Amazon are any indication, most people are pretty happy with their Windows Phones. The top 3 highest reviewed phones are all Windows Phones.
Hmmm. Think those may be astroturfing?
If the sales on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Cell-Phones-Accessories-Service-Plans/zgbs/wireless/2407747011 are any indication the top three selling are all Android phones.
And perhaps the reason for that is because Amazon appears not to sell subsidized iPhones.
Just sayin'...
Nope, more like this.
5-star reviews are useless, as always. Representative line:
One of my friends had only held it for literally five seconds before commenting on how amazing it was.
Or this HTC Titan review:
i love my wp7 its just the best phone ever the os is the best i have usaed on any cell phone. i got my wp7 phone in feb of 2011 and i have no problem with my lg Quantum and if the HTC Titan is that good i have to get my wife one.becouse my wife is geting it in feb of this year.
Rated 5-stars without even actually buying the phone yet.
This is just yet another case haters on the internet moving the goalposts in order to hate on MS. IT also shows why no matter how good MS's products are, they simply can't when.
When WP7 forced carriers to update, all the digerati ignored WP7's great reviews and made fun of it. "The two people that bought Windows Phones seem to like them hahahaha. Guess they don't mind the BSODs LOLOLLOl!". According to Slashdot posters, Android is the BEST (even though you have to deal with fragmentation, etc).
MS desperately wants their (good) products to be more successful, so now they drop their update requirements and be more like people'es beloved Android... and now people hate on WP7 FOR THAT.
MS is always damned if they do and damned if they don't because people don't give them a fair shake. Focus on everything bad about MS while focusing on everything good about MS's competitors.
McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
The Ford F-150 is the top selling car in the country, does that make it better than an Infiniti G37?
Depends on how many sheets of drywall you need to take to a jobsite or home improvement project.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
I don't think you thought that through. WP7 isn't the top selling but it is rated as the best. So that makes it the Infiniti G37 in your analogy?
Sure they can. The point here is that it was Microsoft doing it. Carriers felt threatened by that definitive source of information. With any old user page on the internet, they could easily say it to be false.
Well you can hardly compare the situation in Android with that in WP7. When Google released ICS it took 3 months for any old phone to get an upgrade, some will never get an upgrade and some will get wait more than 6 months. By contrast it took less than 3 months for each and every WP7 device in the world to get the Mango - the most important WP7 update.
How in the HELL does anyone manage to manipulate real world facts, to the extent that Windows has not one, not two, but the THREE top rated phones? FFS, I don't know of one single person in real life who is carrying around a Windows phone. Not one. iPhones are a dime a dozen, and Androids are about twenty cents per gross. Other proprietary OS's are common as lice in a prison. Window? If I want to actually see, and touch a Windows phone, I have to find a store where one is on display, collecting dust.
Top rated? They probably went to a nursing home, where no one had ever owned a cell phone, and distributed 20 Windows phone, and one broken Android. The old folks were then asked to rate those phones. The broken Android beat out the other 17 Windows phones.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
I have a Windows Phone and I will rate it pretty high. What is your point? Even if I am the only person in the world who owns Windows Phone that will still make the average rating pretty high. It will not mean that a lot of devices were sold, it will not mean that it is better than Android or iPhone. It will only mean that the average satisfaction of people who have WP7 is pretty high. Of course Amazon probably has some minimum number of reviews needed to rank the phone but I imagine this number is something like 20 and surely MS managed to sell 20 phones.
My point is, they are obviously not making comparisons to the entire pool of cell phone purchasers. Surveying a select subclass of cell phone purchasers can almost guarantee the results you are looking for.
If slashdot included a polling mechanism such as is available on VBB, we could post a survey for all slashdot users to respond to. "How would you rank x model phone?" Or, "What is your favorite phone?" Or, "Which phone do you think is the most technologically advanced?"
On the other hand, asking "Which Windows phone is your favorite?" would guarantee that Android couldn't win the poll.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Statistics are just confusing numbers to you right? Do a little search on the number of models of Android phones versus WP7 devices and also note that this is ONLY WP7 and not any earlier version of MS mobile while some Android phones have gotten multiple updates.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Why don't geeks have the ability to understand consumers? is it like a lesion in the brain that simply blinds them to everyone not like them? As someone who builds and sells all matter of electronic gizmos to the consumer I'll be happy to tell you why they really don't give a shit how locked down a phone is, you ready?
It's fairly common human nature to base your opinions of others (including "what you think they think") using yourself as a template.
Of course they are not, neither do they claim to compare the entire pool of cell phone purchasers. They compare reviews by people who wrote reviews. At this point WP users are mainly WP enthusiasts and they are really excited about the platform. As such they are more likely to write a review and their reviews are more likely to be favorable. This is a measure that should be taken for what is - a customer satisfaction, not popularity of the platform, not some kind of grade on the OS. The only thing it means is that WP7 buyers are not disappointed.
I have a Windows phone, and like it. Windows Mobile, though -- I've no experience of WP7.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
And here I thought I was the only one on Slashdot who have actually liked the good old Windows Mobile.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
This might just means Microsoft hired more bloggers than Google to boost their ratings. Also they don't have any iOS devices that I can see. Also note the top three unlocked phones are all running Android.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
Actually it's likely much worse. In Q3 ex Nokia CEO now mobile analyst Tomi Ahonen says worldwide market share is currently as low as 1-2%.
The Lumia launch isn't looking all too optimistic either.
I've often wondered why people put so much confidence in online product reviews. I don't personally known anyone who regularly reviews things that they buy online and personally the only time I review is if I had a notably poor experience. I would have to imagine that the majority of the good reviews on anything would likely be a combination of paid astroturfers and people who review for a perks. Likewise I would imagine that the majority of the bad reviews were only posted because the reviewer had a notably bad experience (and either wanted revenge on the product or felt a need to caution others). Thus it is my habit to totally ignore positive reviews and look at bad reviews for widespread issues.
Things are what they are, not what you think they are, to put it in some way. Believing you can fly if you jump of a cliff doesn't make you able to. Believing organic matter has something magical to that can't be reproduced artifically doesn't make it so either (dispoved by WÃhler's synthesis of urea)
In the same way, it doesn't matter what somebody believes what a phone is, it's still a computer.
+1 Insightfully Funny
So, you claim that Windows phones are common place because they will have 12% market share by [the end of?] this year? I notice a small difference on the time of those verbs... And I notice you are quite certain of things you don't know.
Rethinking email
What would be most useful is an independent site listing which phones (on which networks) are missing updates, also listing the phones' state when not in a network subsidised form (often the lack of updates is down to the manufacturer, not the network provider).
That would allow buyers to see which manufacturer is most likely to leave them in the dust six months after they buy a given phone, and which network is more secure with regard to releasing updates (when available from the manufacturers) compared to the others.
Unfortunately any such site would face legal battles as companies try to stop them posting information that does not show them in the best light, and funding it would be a problem: providing accurate information would require some research and information verification effort which will not be cheap.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/19/nokia-microsoft-lumia-comments
Everyone not doing this cares when they see what can be done on a rooted phone? I've never seen anyone do anything on a rooted phone that was interesting at all. I want my phone to make phone calls and handle other things a phone is supposed to do, I don't want to code in Pyluaby and SSH into remote terminals on my phone.
I do read the reviews, but they have to be checked for credibility. The high ratings have to be screened for astroturfers and true believers. The low ratings have to be filtered for people who think the manual is a courtesy table leveler and the silica gel is a complementary instant drink mix.
ICS was released on Nov 17 with the arrival of the Galaxy Nexus; source code was released Nov 14. We're not even three months in since that point. Furthermore, Google obviously wanted the Galaxy Nexus to have some form of exclusivity with ICS so as to drive sales. Even then, the Nexus S got the ICS update roughly a month later (my phone was updated on Dec 16, if I recall correctly).
Third-parties are slower, yes, but even then Samsung should be rolling out the update early 2012. I'm guessing a lot of the delay comes from porting all of their UI stuff (whether you like it is another question entirely).
I'm not a Windows 7 user, but I wonder; can you buy Windows 7 phones unlocked and download updates directly from Microsoft? That might provide some relief.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Except as we have seen time and time again, including in this very thread, i'm right. As I said I deal with consumers 6 days a week, sometimes on Sunday if its an emergency, so I KNOW how they think, its my fucking JOB to know how they think, to predict what they want and what they don't, and if I fail my ass is going hungry. not only am i not going hungry but my family made out like bandits this Xmas so i must be doing something right, eh?
Hell look above you at the geeks that says 'People will care when they see what you can do with a rooted phone" first of all implying that a rooted phone is like the force or something, two implying that anybody will see one, and three implying that people will know what the fuck they are looking at or actually care. Do they think geeks stand on corners going "Come and see the POWER of the rooted phone!" and people are gonna huddle around like he has discovered fire or something? Give me a break! its a big screen with buttons that does Google, that is what it is to the consumer and therefor it is so. Because there are literally hundreds of thousands of the "screen with Google" people compared to phone rooting geeks it is THEY who set the trend NOT the geek. Just as the other poster that vainly tries to compare jumping off a building thinking they can fly with saying a phone is not a computer is wrong as well because what the phone can and can't do will be dictated by the consumer and if they don't give a flying shit about rooting it and the FOSS phones like OpenMoko don't sell shit guess what? they don't get more made and locked down phones become the standard, that's how it works friend.
In the end the consumer don't give a shit about freedom or being able to hack, they care about "I push this button and it calls, i push this button and i can get Angry birds!" and since they are conditioned to think the phone is disposable and replaced on contract with something different you can sell them Angry birds again with the contract is up. But you ignore the consumer at your own peril, Apple embraced them and became one of the biggest corps on the planet, MSFT only had a token presence in many consumer markets and may have missed the boat. But if you think the consumer thinks like you or cares about the same issues you care about i have a lovely bridge you might be interested in. if its one thing geeks have shown its that they understand consumers even less than they understand women.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I tend to look at the low-rated reviews, too. Often, the reviewer is an idiot but there are also legitimate problems.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Oh indeed. But it's easy to be a consumer psychologist when your next meal doesn't depend on it.
Something similar could be said for the desktop PC. Yeah yeah so Linux gives you all this freedom. Tell me, what's Linux's desktop share these days?
Microsoft wants to make money by getting you to use their phone more. A phone company wants to make money by getting you to use your phone less.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I have an N900, N800, and N770 in addition to my N9.
The N9 is beautiful. I'm sure my long winded detractor has never actually seen one.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
WP7 will be like Android when it drops the walled garden and lets people sideload apps without restrictions.
As it is, with this change, it ends up being just as locked as iOS, but without all the benefits of Apple fully controlling OS updates. I.e. the worst of both worlds.
Metro is the only UI on the market that is truly designed from grounds up for touch and touch alone, but when everything else is broken, it's not going to be enough (hence the sales).
The updates always come from Microsoft - they are actually downloaded (transparently, by the Zune software) from the Windows Update site.
However, Microsoft doesn't actually build the full updates themselves. They provide a basic kit that the OEM then customizes for their model - things like adding the required drivers for the hardware and system utiltiies, adding the built-in application packages for those utilities, and adding branding customizations and so forth. They then test those updates, a process which apparently takes weeks. It's a little surprising how long it takes for many updates, considering the simplicity of the customizations which the OEMs are permitted to make.
In theory, it should be a quick process, with the OEMs simply taking Microsoft's kit and sending back the update CAB file. In practice, even for simple updates which have almost no impact on the OEM (see 7392, a security update that revoked some bad root certificates and had no other impact), some phones got it before others. The OEMs can also push updates themselves (which still go through Windows Update) independently of the Microsoft-developed OS updates, or bundle their own updates into the Microsoft ones.
After the OEM signs off on an update, it can go out to open-market phones immediately, or to the mobile operators for a carrier-specific round of customizing and testing. This is where having an "unbranded" phone comes in handy (and, at least for the first significant update, a common tactic was to modify the phone's registry so it reported itself as non-branded and got the update before AT&T approved it).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
I've had both Windows Mobile Phones and (currently) a Windows Phone 7 and have been happy with them all. Capacitative touch screen is obviously superior to stylus navigation, but the range of software for Windows Mobile was fantastic.
I predict they'll start including Windows phones with "other operating systems" ...
McDonalds is the top selling food in the country, that doesn't mean it's the best.
I'd have problems with your describing it as food.
Which would make the sales figure less biased.
Look at how many bad reviews there are, and if the system provides it, a review of reviews. (aka "how helpful was this review")
you can apply the same level of arguments to consumers that say a computer is not a computer to them. What, you've never seen a consumer's computer with the OEM OS that came with it without any patches, along with all the crapware, 5 years after they bought it? Of course you have.
IRL, I think I'd prefer competent screwing.
Ummm...how about tether your phone? My whole family wanted to root their phones as soon as they saw me turn my Optimus V into a Wi-Fi hotspot. Not bad for $35 a month.
Is it that impossible for you to believe that Microsoft may have released a product that people like?
Yes. If that were to happen, a singularity would have ripped open in the space-time continuum and swallowed the Earth whole.
RTFA is Known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Just as bad (for Android Market), if an app has ever been preloaded on a phone, you will never get a good idea of its value by review. Almost all of them are just complaining that they can't remove it, and have never actually tried the app.
RTFA is Known to the State of California to cause cancer.
I can tell you as a retailer why Linux on the desktop is DOA, its a fiddly PITA geeker hobbyist OS that doesn't give a wet fart about consumers or average folks! Lets take what i use to see if a distro is ready, a little test i call "Is it safe?" that just FYI not a SINGLE distro has passed yet, not one.
You take ANY distro and get a copy from THREE years ago, age is key as you'll see in a minute and you install it. Now if you need CLI to get it running? that is okay at this point as you are the OEM now and NOT the consumer. Now once its completed using the GUI and the GUI ONLY you update it to current and see what happens. I've found what you get is an unstable broken mess, with busted drivers and a shitload of CLI fiddling. Now we are talking less than HALF of what Windows gives you for support, yet it can't even manage that? If you were to do that with a distro today you'd find a complete DE changeout, a complete audio changeout to a system that frankly is shit (PulseAudio, what a POS!) and you'd find you video, audio, wireless, and possibly even the Ethernet down which kills their whole "get help on the forums!" bullshit which i would argue there is no damned reason they should NEED your stupid forums and if they do your OS be broken!
As a final note let me give this example that just shows how broken it is. After I had the wireless broken on my "is it safe" test I went to one of the forums and asked for help (which I had thought to bookmark it as it was enlightening) and was given a page and a half of CLI crap that frankly didn't work which i was informed I'd have to "tweak" for the correct hardware. So I said "You guys are Linux gurus right? Pretend I'm Suzy the first time user, now walk me through fixing it with the GUI as I'm clueless and don't know CLI from canoli". They hemmed and hawwed, a couple called me names, until one popped on and said "uuuhhh..you can't do that with a GUI" and I said "BINGO! NOW you see the problem. you expect Suzy the checkout girl to have the skills to analyze a piece Bash code, correctly identify the code that needs to be altered to allow it to correct the problem, and to have the skills and know the syntax well enough to enact said tweaks herself, doesn't anybody smell the fail here?"
And THAT is why Linux is doomed to fail miserably on the desktop. To paraphrase a line from Full Metal Jacket they believe that "Inside every Suzy is a Boris the programmer waiting to get out" but that is as far from reality as it is from here to Europa. Joe and suzy and grandma don't want to learn script and sure as hell aren't gonna be coding in their spare time! they want a box which will work and KEEP on working and the ONLY way that happens in linux is if someoe gives them free lifetime support. since that is about as likely to happen as Reagan rising from the grave to become the first Zombie candidate in US history linux isn't going anywhere. its too fiddly, updates break more than they fix, and the geeks refuse to see that situation isn't compatible with the home market.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
My reasons for buying my WP7 device was to check out the Xbox Live integration specifically and general curiosity about the OS. (Disclosure: I am an Xbox geek and phone/handheld/mobile geek, so the merge could not be passed up without investigation.
I was impressed with device and rated it high, right out of the box.
-calls were good, even on at&t network.
-easy to text
-easy to connect to personal AND work email
-I find the Office apps easy to use if viewing apps and making minor changes. I would not recommend writing your business proposal or powerpoint slides, duh.
-bing search works fine
-speech recognition worked well for me on text, email, and searches. somewhat less so on the maps
I rate the same device higher now, with the type of quality apps available that make the phone better/cooler/more fun for me personally.
-itunes connector
-xbox companion which lets me control my xbox 360.
-the best casual games I have ever seen on a handheld device
I still wish the map application was better with directions and some of the speech recognition. "Union City" not "King City" come on!
All in all I am looking forward to new diverse hardware coming out for the WP7 OS.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson