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Homeless Student Is Intel Talent Search Semifinalist

An anonymous reader writes "Samantha Garvey, a senior at Brentwood High School, has managed to become one of the remaining 300 semifinalists in the Intel Science Talent Search this year. Her research focused on mussels and on her discovery that they change the thickness of their shells if a predator such as crabs are introduced. Why is Garvey's achievement so impressive? Because she and her entire family are homeless, and rely on a local homeless shelter. Such a situation would stop many students from being able to focus on studying, let alone a research project, but Garvey has instead used her situation as motivation."

464 comments

  1. I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is the first time in my life that a homeless person made me feel like a loser.

    1. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet it won't be the last.

    2. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't know why, this story is perfectly cromulent.

      Remember, a noble spirit embiggens the smallest of men. Or young women, as is the case.

    3. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Go ahead and be crabby; she will just gain even more mussels.

    4. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're modded funny, but it's a serious matter. Remember this next time you decide that the poor and homeless are just bums who got where they are because of their own failings. The fact is any one of us could be there and might one day end up there through no fault of our own. It is by far more likely than it is for us to join the rich crowd.

      I hope this helps lift her and her family out of their situation.

    5. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's unpossible...

    6. Re:I really hate this article by trout007 · · Score: 1

      Most likely because they can't afford a TV and she has to read for entertainment.

      Someone ask her who Kim Kardasean is.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    7. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I work in a public education institution that uses data points to determine student's homeless (and other demo. stats) status. It is not what most people think, The key way this is determined in most cases is if the student's resident address mortgage/rental agreement is not in their parent/guardian's name.

      In other words if their parents go over-seas for work for several months and leave them at their brother's $1.2M home and list that address, since the parent's names are not listed for the property address the state/fed govt. will classify them as homeless and in poverty and they can collect all kinds of benefits/payments since they are "homeless" (and not the living on the street kind)

      I don't trust these type of generic stats without some serious detail of what definition is used. There are still too many scamming the system and these BS data definitions too even remotely take those labels seriously

    8. Re:I really hate this article by johnsnails · · Score: 1

      haha!

    9. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone ask her who Kim Kardasean is.

      A fucking immature, petty, useless whore who deserves to be homeless a hell of a lot more than this student does?

      Same kind of manipulative, egotistic, useless, immature bitch you find on shows like Jersey Shore. Please, please, please can we stop glorifying and publicising this kind of "person"?

    10. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your logic is flawed, too. By no means is "becoming rich" guaranteed by "striving".

      I think sjames' post takes this concept to it's logical conclusion, which is even if you work very, very hard, you are still more likely to end up homeless than one of the super rich elite these days (although he also implies that both of these results are unlikely, just one more so than the other).

      And by the way, I'm now fuckin depressed by you both.

    11. Re:I really hate this article by oldmac31310 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I take it this AC is a wonderfully wealthy douchebag. Anyone else?

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    12. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      I sincerely doubt she (or practically ANY of the others) are living in someone's 1.2M mansion. Especially since TFA specifically said she and her family rely on a homeless shelter. Did you think they were just slumming?

    13. Re:I really hate this article by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      She hasn't "been empowered out of homelessness." She's still homeless.

      Update: in ten days her family will be moving into a rent-subsidized house.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    14. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      The question is will her striving even get her out of homelessness.

      You sound exactly like the sort of person who thinks striving goes like "But daaaaadyyyyyyy, all my friends got a Porsche for THEIR birthday!"

    15. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The summary says they rely on a homeless shelter' The real question is why you think it necessary to paint a picture of 'people aren't really homeless, they're just gaming the system' and why others modded you up. There are far more people who are homeless who don't get counted at all in any stats.

    16. Re:I really hate this article by Splab · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well homeless shelters are big buildings usually. Wouldn't surprise me if it had a 1.2M price tag.

    17. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuck off. Yes, occasionally you'll find a sad story wherever you look, but a vast majority of homeless people are homeless people because they fucked up their shit. No matter what bullshit Hollywood story you want us to believe. And what do you mean by "The fact that any one of us could be there and might one day end up there through no fault of our own. It is by far more likely than it is for us to join the rich crowd?" Of course it's easier to fail than to succeed given that success has only a few roads leading to it, while all the other roads lead to the shitter.

      Oh and a shit situation is a motivator for change if anything.

    18. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No Shit, no Ps3, no XBox, nothing better to do but study mussels. Duh she's performing better than her peers who have rich stupid parents who inadvertently pay for their drug/drinking habits.

    19. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really???? http://beckyblanton.com/about/faq/funny/famous-homeless-people/

    20. Re:I really hate this article by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, occasionally you'll find a sad story wherever you look, but a vast majority of homeless people are homeless people because they fucked up their shit.

      What about their kids?

    21. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you've never been homeless before. You would never understand until you walk a mile in those shoes.

      Also, a shit situation can be just as much a demotivator. It can make you feel depressed, worthless and isolated.

    22. Re:I really hate this article by The+Moof · · Score: 2, Informative

      And the very critical part of the story which takes the wind out of the whole "overcoming her drastic odds" part is she wasn't homeless 13 days ago. She and her family were evicted on Jan 1st, 2012.

      Of course, that doesn't make for a good human interest story, most news outlets initially failed to mention that fact.

    23. Re:I really hate this article by hey! · · Score: 1

      it's about a homeless person succeeding due to their own will. This means that they have been empowered out of homelessness.

      Personally, I have my doubts about your interpretation of the phrase "empowered out of homelessness". I prefer a stricter interpretation which entails having a place to live. Furthermore, I'd say that an instance of someone "succeeding due to their will" yet not having a place to live means that either (1) our definition of "success" is broken or (2) our society rewards something *other* than success.

      But perhaps you were lead astray by the headline "Samantha Garvey's story: From homeless shelter to Intel semifinalist". It should read "Samantha Garvey's story: From homeless shelter to Intel semifinalist, then back to the homeless shelter. Oh yes and they're going to euthanize her dog, too."

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    24. Re:I really hate this article by forkfail · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So much for "There but for the grace of God go I" (or whatever method of expressing empathy you care for).

      Nope - these days, it's all about lazy, entitlement seeking, dirty, smelly, socialist, thieving, parasitic trash sucking the life out of the economy.

      At least - right up to the point at which BigCorp your work for outsources your job and you can't even pay the mortgage on your rather modest home or feed the kids... suddenly, maybe, it occurs then that perhaps some of these folks just maybe weren't just lazy scum.

      --
      Check your premises.
    25. Re:I really hate this article by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He could just be an upper-middle class young adult who still believes that if he works hard enough, he'll one day get to join the 1%. Just wait until he or someone he cares about gets sick and loses their home, or until Bain Capital or similar buys out his business and decides his job could be better done by a coworker working unpaid overtime, or until his life savings get wiped out by some Wall Streeters run amok and leave him with nothing to retire on.

      Sadly, for some people it takes experiencing bad luck themselves to realize that the poor aren't poor out of laziness.

    26. Re:I really hate this article by narcc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are still too many scamming the system

      Who cares? I'd rather ignore the occasional bit of fraud (even if it were as high as 10%) than to inadvertently prevent someone or some family from getting desperately needed help.

    27. Re:I really hate this article by narcc · · Score: 2, Funny

      What about their kids?

      It's their own fault for being born into poverty. They could start getting bootstrappy now if it weren't for those damn liberal child-labor laws.

      (This would be funny if there weren't people like Newt Gingrich who actually believe this!)

    28. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $1.2 million for a homeless shelter? Damn, my summer lake house cost more than that.

      Then again, it's nicely appointed.

      I can't wait until June when water skiing season kicks in! I bet that kid has never even been on a wake board. Loser.

    29. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not really. Many are homeless because their ancestors were bums; on the other hand, many bums are rich because their ancestors weren't bums.

    30. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one ever said becoming rich was guaranteed. Is that the problem you hippies have, you thought that was promised somewhere? Nope. Sometimes people strive, but they suck, and things don't work out. Sometimes, people strike it rich without doing anything. Sometimes, for no reason, people get struck down. That's what happens in a probabilistic universe, and no one has ever worked out how to stop that on a large scale.

      Generally speaking, though, you get out what you put in. That's not a flaw of the system just because you've decided you want the high life for middling input.

      I suspect people like you, always whining about the "super rich elite," will never get anywhere, because that whining is taking up the energy you could direct into something productive. I've never cried about what other people have, I just worked to put together the things I want. I worked harder than the guy next to me, and it paid off consistently. You don't have to do that, in fact, I welcome you not to. I don't mind not having the competition.

      That's not to say some people get things they shouldn't get, but that's not a flaw of "the system," that's a flaw of humanity. Everything would be perfect if we had perfect people, of course, which will never, ever happen, no matter how much you hippies whine about it.

    31. Re:I really hate this article by Osgeld · · Score: 0

      "Remember this next time you decide that the poor and homeless are just bums who got where they are because of their own failings."

      I only think bums are like this, ya know the people who smell like BO, shit, whiskey and piss wearing 4 coats in August giving me a sob story of how they need 43 cents cause they got out of prison in 1986 or whatever

    32. Re:I really hate this article by artor3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So we must allow the 1% to continue robbing us until we are literally starving to death. Only then can we raise a (feeble, emaciated) fist against them.

      Has it occurred to you that the longer we wait to solve the erosion of the middle class, the harder it will be?

    33. Re:I really hate this article by forkfail · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's turn your question around.

      What meritous work do the 1% do to deserve the rapidly increasing and disproportionate chunk of the wealth that they get?

      --
      Check your premises.
    34. Re:I really hate this article by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Yes, occasionally you'll find a sad story wherever you look, but a vast majority of homeless people are homeless people because they fucked up their shit.

      And your source of statistics of 'vast majority of homeless people' would be what exactly?

      Have you forgotten that this is the worst economic situation since the great depression or would you say that the homeless in the great depression also fucked up their shit?

      How many people lost their homes because of the bank caused financial crisis?

      You're a jackass if you blame this on the people whose lives got fucked up not because of their own actions but because the financial industry fucked up.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    35. Re:I really hate this article by GiganticLyingMouth · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually her family had been homeless since she was young, but were able to move into a house recently for some time. Then the parents got into a car accident, and they had to leave. So yes, she has been homeless for much longer than 13 days. (this information was included in the yahoo article about her, which was on their site a days or two ago)

    36. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 2

      Some may be exactly that. Some may actually belong in a mental health facility (think about it, would a sane person live that way?). In fact, many WERE until funding was cut and they got thrown to the wolves.

    37. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I might add especially the 1%ers who inherited their wealth.

      If everybody started from a level playing field the wealth disparity would be much easier to tolerate.

      The way it is, the US turns into a neo-feudal society.

    38. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 2

      There is something to that for many. If you're rich enough, it doesn't matter how badly you fail, you'll be propped up and given every opportunity to fix things.

      Just imagine if you worked on an assembly line and your 'penalty' for a screw up that wrecked the entire factory would be a severance check big enough to retire on! That's the 'hard reality' of being the CEO of a large corporation.

    39. Re:I really hate this article by thephydes · · Score: 1

      And you sir ar a complete fuckwit, with your brain in the toilet and no fucking idea what you are talking about.

    40. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 0

      Speaking of Wall Street, now is the perfect time to invest in rare earth mining. This industry sector is set to EXPLODE and make a lot of people rich. There's a number of good, promising companies in this sector with shares at anywhere from 50 cents to $3 right now. Invest heavily now and you'll literally be a millionaire in a few years. I bet you had no idea of this, since you're too busy bitching about how you'll never succeed cause the man's got you down.

    41. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're rich enough, it doesn't matter how badly you fail, you'll be propped up and given every opportunity to fix things.

      What do they call a rich family that fails badly enough a few times?

      Poor

    42. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Catastrophes are anomalies and not the norm.

      Or else insurance companies won't make so much money.

      No one can legislate bad luck away. There will always be unlucky people.

    43. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My university is running an engineering outreach program for under-served districts, and Brentwood is one of them. It wouldn't be surprising if her family is actually living in poverty.

    44. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prepare to be surprised.

      THe shelter I occasionally volunteer at is part of the township's secondary office and storage facility. The overall cost of the entire building *might* top $1.2 million, but the part that houses homeless people is only a very small portion.

      Some shelters are big, yes. However, there are also no few small shelters crammed in wherever the organizers could get space.

      Notable, too, is that small shelters often specifically cater to women, and families with children, as they can provide the safety that larger shelters simply cannot offer.

    45. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, bad luck happens and you can't legislate it away. That's no excuse to look down on the unlucky and presume that their bad luck was some sort of character flaw and the zillion other excuses people find to pump themselves up by looking down on the unfortunate.

      It's also no excuse for not cutting people enough slack to get back on their feet without devastating their lives.

    46. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1, Troll

      Got a fer instance?

    47. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, figures demonstrate that income isn't keeping up with productivity for the vast majority of the population, but for the super rich, income is skyrocketing. That means that MOST people aren't getting out what they're putting in. That isn't some lame excuse like 'the way it is', 'reality', 'probability', or 'evil polka-dotted leprechauns', it is a systematic inequity in our society that needs to be addressed. Many people strive, don't suck, and things don't work out anyway.

      Though none are perfect, the vast majority of 1st world countries make a better effort than the U.S. to address this.

      Nobody has worked out how to stop bad things from happening but most civilized countries have figured out how to reduce the impact of those things or at least maximize the odds of recovering from them.

    48. Re:I really hate this article by Strider- · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What about them? I think that homeless shelters are a Good Thing, and certainly so in the case of helping kids who had no choice about the situation they were born into. But let's be real--the kids have the same genetics as their parents. If the parents were losers then odds are the kids are too.

      Translation: "Are there no prisons? Are there no poor houses?"

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    49. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually it takes all of the wind out of the loud claims that only lazy ignorant or otherwise defective people end up homeless. She is certainly none of those and that is a good indicator that her parents aren't either.

    50. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      So you advocate implementing the caste system?

    51. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      I would mod you up if I could. The strangest bedfellows in all of politics are Christians and the Republican party. The espoused philosophies are nearly 180 degrees apart.

    52. Re:I really hate this article by Jessified · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have mixed feelings about stories like this. While I hope that she is able to do something special and help her family, if she does, that only sends the message that any poor person can do so, and that they don't means they are lazy. You find one example of a person who clawed their way out of poverty and all of a sudden the countless others unable to do so are simply lazy.

      Like those you can already see in this thread...

    53. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      I had no idea asking for a single shred of evidence was trolling now.

    54. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, it really is amazing the way some people claim that one person hitting a millions to one shot means that everyone else should be able to do the same. I guess they're fairly bad at statistics.

    55. Re:I really hate this article by Surt · · Score: 1

      They are leveraging their superior bargaining position to exploit my labor for less than a fair cost. They can walk away from every labor deal because there are millions of people begging for jobs. I have to hope I can feed my family.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    56. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do they call a rich family that fails badly enough a few times?

      Bush?

    57. Re:I really hate this article by artor3 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I recall being told the exact same thing about real estate in 2006.

      FYI, I'm in the upper class myself. Around the 94th percentile if Wikipedia's stats are accurate. And I've done quite well for myself by investing in gold, Amazon, Netflix, Sirius radio, and a whole lot of companies you've never heard of. Graham Corp was my favorite.... see that peak on its chart in '08? That's when Cramer was screaming on Mad Money for people to buy it. A sure sell signal if ever I saw one, and I bailed out immediately.

      But unlike a lot of upper class people, I wasn't born into it, and I'm nowhere near wealthy enough to support friends and family. So I get to see childhood friends lose their jobs and homes. And I get to see my siblings and cousins struggle to make ends meet. And I get to reminisce about waking up one morning and finding my dad literally weeping because he had been laid off and we were going to lose our home, back when I was too young to understand any of that. And I'm literate enough to look at statistics and see that the bottom 80% has been in decline for over thirty years, while the top 1% has seen their incomes quadruple over the same period. And I'm good enough at arithmetic to figure out that if this nation's "rising tide" had indeed "lifted all ships", then the average individual would be making an additional $8k a year, which would mean a hell of a lot to people, considering that the median income is $24k. But instead, all of that money ($8k per person times 155 million workers = $1.24 TRILLION per year) went to the top 1%, who use it to bribe politicians into giving them even more advantages.

    58. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I am being sarcastic, but I guess the author of the article felt the homeless were also worthless. Some live that way because it is easier then dealing with the everyday bullshit of a money driven society. Others find it difficult to keep up with a money driven society. Either way they may all bring some kind type of idea to the table, most are educated, but not beyond high school.

      How many hackers or programmers did not go to college? If your asking, or going to imply that crap over college education. There are several other fields in which you do not need college to make a comfortable living.

    59. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you're homeless, you don't have access to proper bathing and toilet facilities most of the time. I can also understand how some homeless people turn to alcohol and drugs, seeing as there isn't a whole lot to do when you are living like that.

      Being homeless is an extremely difficult situation to climb back out of. How do you look for work? You have no phone, you have no address, you might not have proper identification/documents to prove work eligibility, you probably don't have any contacts or friends, you probably don't have any decent and/or clean clothes and you might not have access to a place that you can clean up/shower/shave. What do you do in a situation like that?

    60. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually with will and planning (and average IQ-100) it is still possible to jump from poor to middle class,
      fuck if i had more will and reduce time spent on TV/internet (i am what is considered middle class currently) i could easily become millionaire,
      thing is most people stop fighting for themselves and say "i did all i could, this is best i can get" ... i am not sure why this happens some professional psychoanalyst may have better idea but most people that are poor are that way because they gave up and stopped fighting (off course there is smaller percent that has some kind of disability or very low IQ/intelligence but those persons should already be protected some kind of ADA government protection)

    61. Re:I really hate this article by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The solution to the current Great Depression is oddly enough the very same solution that worked the last time:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_new_deal

      Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Since we've already fucked up again and made another depression, it stands to reason that we should follow through and solve it how history has shown us.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    62. Re:I really hate this article by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      And the very critical part of the story which takes the wind out of the whole "overcoming her drastic odds" part is she wasn't homeless 13 days ago. She and her family were evicted on Jan 1st, 2012.

      Of course, that doesn't make for a good human interest story, most news outlets initially failed to mention that fact.

      Slashdot desperately needs a "-1: Disinformative/misguiding/false" moderation. And the above post deserves a lot of it.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    63. Re:I really hate this article by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Generally speaking, though, you get out what you put in. That's not a flaw of the system just because you've decided you want the high life for middling input.

      Not in the USA, where social mobility is essentially dead:

      Several studies have been made comparing social mobility between developed countries. One such study (âoeDo Poor Children Become Poor Adults?")[10][11][12] found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation. The four countries with the lowest "intergenerational income elasticity", i.e. the highest social mobility, were Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Canada with less than 20% of advantages of having a high income parent passed on to their children. (see graph)

      From Wikipedia

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    64. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this mess of conflicted ideology modded, "insightful"?

      You begin by stating that there are no guarantees, an explicit admission that the output is not dependent on the input, then blame the fact that people aren't rich on "middling input", "always whining", and trumpeting about how you got where you are due to "[working] harder than the guy next to [you]"! In other words, the output doesn't depend on the input... except for you, of course, you earned everything you have and it was inevitable since you brag about it and imply that you are superior instead of acknowledging that you are, among other things, lucky. I also like how you simultaneously note that things aren't always fair and then call anyone else who notes the fact a "hippie."

      Nobody is working a hundred times harder than someone else who is actually working. It's just not possible; there are only so many hours a day. Since there are people who work hard and earn $20,000 a year, I do not believe that it is possible to earn $2 million a year and claim that the system isn't fundamentally broken and that some jobs are not valued fairly. The only reason you believe otherwise is because you have been indoctrinated to think that hard work = success, and even though you have already seen that it isn't true, you cling to that dogma.

      When it comes to personal wealth, which vagina you emerged from is at least as important as what you do with your life. That's just a fact, and claiming that people who aren't successful should look to some innate character flaw is blind arrogance at least as often as it is some pearl of tough wisdom.

    65. Re:I really hate this article by JockTroll · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. In due time you'll be homeless too, and feel less like a loser.

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    66. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything would be perfect if we had perfect people, of course, which will never, ever happen, no matter how much you hippies whine about it.

      Perfection doesn't matter, what matters is fairness. Everything would be fair if you couldn't be born rich/poor but the case is that you can.
      Pure capitalism is never going to be fair as long as we allow for parents to take care of their children.

    67. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      Yes, poor people are poor because they do not invest their funds properly. That's logic of the highest order.

    68. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      Anything is better than actually thinking about this issue, isn't it? Those people are there because they deserve to be, by God. Now, back to the cricket scores, eh wot?

    69. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      Even then it's not BigCorp's fault, but still somehow the doing of poor people; they did it with their welfare and tax breaks and bad mortgages. The poor obviously have all the power in this country, and rich people are being exploited. If you listen closely you can hear the fairway weeping.

    70. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      Even taking recent gains into account, since 2007 we've lost over a million jobs. That means over a million people are not working, not because they are lazy or worthless, but because there is no job for them. A lot more people aren't technically unemployed, but are underemployed. I can see your eyes glazing over already, because I'm not talking about you.

      Do I have to do the math to show you that taking out a mortgage when you have a job, then losing that job through no fault of your own, does not equal a bad-faith transaction with the bank? Your job hasn't been shipped to India; congratulations, but remaining blissfully unaware, while a valid choice, does not require stupidly trumpeting your ignorance for all to see. It's a sub-optimal decision you're making.

    71. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      What do they call a poor family that does anything other than succeed wildly?

      Poor

    72. Re:I really hate this article by Grygus · · Score: 1

      That is true, but when unemployment and underemployment are approaching 20% while companies record profits at an all-time high, it's not bad luck anymore.

      People weren't demonstrating in 2006, even though the wealth disparity was just as bad. Nobody is really demanding that the super-rich rain their dollars into the streets; all anybody wants is a slice of the pie big enough to eat. The masses have proven for twenty years that they are not that difficult to pacify, but unbridled greed doesn't even want to let crumbs fall from the table.

    73. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real question is if she will continue to strive and become rich.

      Because studying mussels' reaction to crab presence is known to enrich the student?

    74. Re:I really hate this article by Loundry · · Score: 1

      Just don't call it "class warfare"!

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    75. Re:I really hate this article by Loundry · · Score: 1

      I might add especially the 1%ers who inherited their wealth.

      If everybody started from a level playing field the wealth disparity would be much easier to tolerate.

      The way it is, the US turns into a neo-feudal society.

      Yes, it sucks that other kids had a trust fund and we didn't. (Likewise, it also sucks that we were born in the US as opposed to, say, North Korea or Uganda, but let's stay focused on our first-world problems.)

      How would you imagine "fixing" this problem? Ignore for the time being that you can no longer bequeath your wealth to your children, or to anyone else that you like, for that matter. When someone dies, all of their wealth is sized by the government to be "spread equally" among ... who exactly? Everyone? How do you imagine that working out in practice? Well, since we will elect angels, not fallible humans, to government positions, then they will be perfect and show absolutely no favoritism or individual biases about what is most worthy of "investment", right? Of course not, because angels don't exist, power corrupts, and we're talking about pigs who now have a individual's wealth to divvy up as best as they see fit. This is actually a much faster method of turning the US into a neo-feudal society, with all wealth from someone seized when someone dies (accidentally?) and spread out as best as our rulers see fit (Now! With GULAG!).

      Maybe you should re-read the book _Animal Farm_ knowing that it was written by a socialist. Notice how I used the word "pigs" to describe our rulers? It wasn't a throwaway insult. It's a reference to that book.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    76. Re:I really hate this article by Loundry · · Score: 1

      Indeed! "What about the chiiiiiiiiildren?" It works for both conservatives and liberals.

      There are millions of stories of stupid, lazy people doing stupid, lazy things that screw up their own lives and the lives of their victims. And then, once in a blue moon, one of these losers spawns a genius. It is the proverbial pearl in a mountain of shit. But if you stare deeply into that pearl, allowing it to fill your vision entirely, then you can feel inspired enough to write a heartwarming human interest story. Maybe that story will be so powerful that you will inspire people to say, "But what about the chiiiiiiiildren?" and ignore the masses of stupid, lazy people out there making life worse for everyone.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    77. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Interesting, I thought the UK was slightly ahead. Then again, I think the article I originally read dated from before the election.

      No doubt someone will be along to state that the Danes, Finns and the rest are godless commies.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    78. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      Look, I was born and raised in what you probably consider "Socialist" Germany, even there large inheritances are not completely taxed -and neither are they in the states.

      Your death tax rant is very much a straw man argument, I am sorry but you are not entitled to your own facts:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

      Tax free up to $5 millions and then the tax rate doesn't go above 55%.

      Cry me a river.

    79. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      You're middle class? Your writing looks like it comes from the remedial class.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    80. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Nope - these days, it's all about lazy, entitlement seeking, dirty, smelly, socialist, thieving, parasitic trash sucking the life out of the economy.

      Can't we leave the bankers alone?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    81. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh Slashdot, where sarcasm with an acknowledged link to what someone actually said gets marked troll.

      --Samriel

    82. Re:I really hate this article by eggstasy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How did people know they could not actually afford their home when everybody had one and banks were all too eager to tell them otherwise?

      You must think people are all some kind of OCD mathematicians that spend their lives meticulously calculating their best course of action. Studies have shown that 80% of people blindly trust recommendations instead of comparing prices or informing themselves about technical specifications with the local computer wizard. And economists, unlike hackers, are not really abundant.

      You should read a book called Descartes' error, where a prominent psychiatrist reports the case of a brain damaged man, formerly an intelligent, successful professional, who could not feel emotion anymore, but was perfectly capable of purely rational thought. He could not decide on anything - enter the concept of emotional intelligence, and the fact that people actually decide based on their feelings, and can not decide on anything otherwise. After all, what seems "logic" to you, may not be another man's "logic".

      You can argue that being unwise is undesirable, but if you think the fundamental nature of Man can be changed, I'd like to know where I can get some of that delicious kool-aid you've been drinking. If you're a financial wizard, know that the rest of the world is not YOU. Most people have had no contact with math of any kind since high-school, they don't need it and they should not be bothered with it.

      If people could somehow become immune to marketing and aggressive salesmen, the whole economy would grind to a halt. The world moves on the backs of stupid people spending lots of money. Two main components of what goes into calculating GDP are domestic consumption and exports.

    83. Re:I really hate this article by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      There is something to that for many. If you're rich enough, it doesn't matter how badly you fail, you'll be propped up and given every opportunity to fix things.

      See: Donald Trump. If he was a middle class guy and lost similar amounts of money (proportionate to his middle-class income), he'd be lucky if the repo men left the clothes on his back.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    84. Re:I really hate this article by waives · · Score: 1

      Better a thousand stupid lazy people than one psychopath like you.

    85. Re:I really hate this article by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Agreed. An inspiring story but it can cause people to pick up all kinds of bad messages.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    86. Re:I really hate this article by couchslug · · Score: 1

      If the Masters who rule us fail to share sufficient loot, there is no reason not to eat them.

      Those who teach otherwise teach we have some "obligation" to the masters.

      I don't owe anyone anything. The peons (everyone reading this) should first remember they are peasants somewhere at the level of the folks who pack human shit into fuel briquettes in Third World countries.

      Nobody gives a fuck about you, except a "small circle of friends".
      Since the masters have no ethics when dealing with you, you are free to smile and return the favor.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    87. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as opposed to the meritous slashdot posting you do at your 9-5?

    88. Re:I really hate this article by canadian_right · · Score: 1

      There is some grey in this world.

      Some people are poor because they have mental health issues. They can't hold down jobs, but they are rational enough to say no to help, or there is not enough help to set their lives on an even keel.

      Some people are poor because of bad luck. In the USA there is the unique situation among first world countries that a bad health issue can ruin you financially. Losing your job suddenly and not being able to get a new one quickly enough can be cause you to lose your home. If you are living cheque to cheque losing a job can cause very quick downward spiral.

      Some people are homeless, generally the young, to escape abuse at home. Living on the street is better than being beaten and abused at home.

      Some people enjoy the homeless lifestyle. They enjoy the freedom, they work odd jobs, collect bottles, dumpster dive, and get by. They don't complain much.

      Some people are screw ups. They did not get an education. They can't hold down a job. They have a bad attitude. They do self destructive things. Many drug abusers are in this category.

      So how many are in each of these categories? Depends where in the world you live. Most people are homeless for short periods and get back on their feet. Good stats for the usa. More good stats and info.

      Being homeless is not a simple issue with one cause. It is a symptom of many different problems that is a short term problem for most people, and a long term problem mainly for people with mental health problems, substance abuse problems, and youth facing abuse at home. Most others recover after a short time.

      --
      Anarchists never rule
    89. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Nobody is working a hundred times harder than someone else who is actually working. It's just not possible; there are only so many hours a day.

      True, but I'm sure there are some people who work a hundred times smarter than others.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    90. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Speaking of Wall Street, now is the perfect time to invest in rare earth mining.

      It was, till some dummy spilled the beans all over teh intarwebs.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    91. Re:I really hate this article by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      Never underestimate the power of human stupidity... or of the moderator's either.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    92. Re:I really hate this article by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      No doubt someone will be along to state that the Danes, Finns and the rest are godless commies.

      We must be, since we have universal healthcare and free higher education.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    93. Re:I really hate this article by TheLink · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you should start thinking why you have masses of "stupid lazy people" in the first place.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

      Finland has ranked at or near the top in all three competencies on every survey since 2000, neck and neck with superachievers such as South Korea and Singapore. In the most recent survey in 2009 Finland slipped slightly, with students in Shanghai, China, taking the best scores, but the Finns are still near the very top. Throughout the same period, the PISA performance of the United States has been middling, at best.

      Compared with the stereotype of the East Asian model -- long hours of exhaustive cramming and rote memorization -- Finland's success is especially intriguing because Finnish schools assign less homework and engage children in more creative play. All this has led to a continuous stream of foreign delegations making the pilgrimage to Finland to visit schools and talk with the nation's education experts, and constant coverage in the worldwide media marveling at the Finnish miracle.

      Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality.

      In the Finnish view, as Sahlberg describes it, this means that schools should be healthy, safe environments for children. This starts with the basics. Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance.

      In fact, since academic excellence wasn't a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland's students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland -- unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway -- was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equity.

      --
    94. Re:I really hate this article by cffrost · · Score: 1

      I had no idea asking for a single shred of evidence was trolling now.

      Only in church.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    95. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 2

      Since nobody WANTS to be lower class and everyone wants to be a millionaire, I can only conclude based on actual demographics that it's harder than you think.

    96. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      Exactly. And he's done it repeatedly no less.

    97. Re:I really hate this article by Relayman · · Score: 1

      I think the best illustration of your point is the fact that six Walmart heirs have as much wealth of the bottom 30% of Americans. Isn't it ironic that Sam Walton built a chain of discount stores that exploited workers (possibly forcing his employees to shop there because they couldn't afford anything better) yet ended up being fabulously rich despite the discounting.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    98. Re:I really hate this article by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I was not talking about geniuses. I was talking about regular kids who had the misfortune to be born in a homeless family - did they also "fuck their shit up"?

    99. Re:I really hate this article by cffrost · · Score: 2

      Yes, it really is amazing the way some people claim that one person hitting a millions to one shot means that everyone else should be able to do the same. I guess they're fairly bad at statistics.

      Many that follow that rhetoric are probably rather justifying their greed or lack of empathy, rather than developing a new disregard for their less-fortunate humans.

      That we can afford the TSA and supply welfare to provocative/oppressive regimes, but HUD can't get these guys and rest of them into apartments is depressing and embarrassing.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    100. Re:I really hate this article by cffrost · · Score: 1

      The article [...] [is] about a homeless person succeeding due to their own will. This means that they have been empowered out of homelessness.

      Intel didn't pay her, causing her to be able to afford housing. She won the "Associated Press human-interest newswire lottery," causing a disproportionate amount of donations (a manifestation of compassion to be sent her way. Suppose it hadn't been a slow news day... What of the Samantha Garveys that aren't placed right in front of your face? I suppose for you, it's not your problem... Those slow-news-day Samanthas and their families (of which I assure you, there are many...) are probably just lazy, so fuck 'em, right?

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    101. Re:I really hate this article by PseudonymousBraveguy · · Score: 1

      So, by extension most of the inhabitants of countries like the USA or Australia, are losers, because their ancestors moved there because they were starving in wherever country they came from (or send there as criminals)?

    102. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do that because you don't have a bunch of niiggers an mexxicans focking up your society. It's hard to have a civilized society with all the nice things that implies with a bunch of apes and beaners stinking up the joint.

    103. Re:I really hate this article by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Hmm... Call my broker, or eat this week? What to do, what to do...

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    104. Re:I really hate this article by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      Sorry to say so, but the only way to "get rich" is either by starting off rich, or working alongside the line until a wild capital oppertunitiy appaer out of thin air.
      Now... in good country, if you work hard, you may be able to reach middle middle class instead of being stuck as a loser at bottom of society. What the article is about is just a student who has managed to reach upper middleclass via scholarship luck.

    105. Re:I really hate this article by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      How many people who could actually afford their home lost it?

      Define "could afford".

      Does it mean "could afford if they kept their jobs", or "could afford even if they lost their jobs as a side-effect of a crisis that they had zero part in causing"?

      Then again, I suppose people who need jobs to survive don't count to you. Dreadful little oiks, the lot of 'em, what?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    106. Re:I really hate this article by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Remember this next time you decide that the poor and homeless are just bums who got where they are because of their own failings.

      Generally, the poor and homeless are just citizens who got where they are because of the actions of bankers. I agree with your hope.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    107. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Does it mean "could afford if they kept their jobs", or "could afford even if they lost their jobs as a side-effect of a crisis that they had zero part in causing"?

      Yes.

      If losing your job means losing your house, it means you are financially illiterate. You failed to plan for the future. Planning for the future includes setting aside funds, provisions, and supplies to cover a substantial period of unemployment or other unexpected catastrophe.

    108. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with inherited wealth? If I worked hard to gather my wealth, I sure as hell don't want to give it away to non-family members. I don't care who you are, if you're not my family, you don't deserve my money. There's no such thing as fair in this world and there's never going to be a level playing field. Lets wake up to reality here. My family was poor and I worked with them to get to where I'm at and now I'm a vile evil capitalistic pig according to some people.b

    109. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sell crap to the 99% that the 99% don't need. Stop buying their crap. They aren't stealing anyone money. It is being handed over willingly.

    110. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with inherited wealth?

      Inherited Wealth.

      If you don't understand that this leads to feudalism you should do some classic sociological reading:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_de_Tocqueville#Democracy_in_America

      To quote:

      "Tocqueville explicitly cites inequality as being incentive for poor to become rich, and notes that it is not often two generations within a family maintain success, and that it is inheritance laws that split and eventually break apart someone's estate that cause a constant cycle of churn between the poor and rich, thereby over generations making the poor rich and rich poor. He cites protective laws in France at the time that protected an estate from being split apart amongst heirs, thereby preserving wealth and preventing a churn of wealth such as was perceived by him in 1835 within the United States of America."

      He correctly describes the purpose of estate taxes to keep a society dynamic and to reinforce economic mobility.

      BTW Tocqueville was an aristocrat and perfectly OK with the accumulation of wealth over generations.

      As for the fairness argument: You do business in a society that protects your freedom, business interests and allows you to acquire wealth. After your death I find it perfectly acceptable that this society reclaims a large portion of the accumulated wealth to be used for the common good.

      To get back to the existing caps: If $5 millions are not sufficient for your offspring to get a good start in life that you've been one lousy parent.

    111. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      How many people who could actually afford their home lost it?

      Given the way the crisis drove up unemployment, probably a fair number of people could have afforded their homes if they had remained employed.

    112. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      You apparently didn't notice that a lot of people's retirement funds went poof in the same financial crisis.

    113. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      If that was even vaguely possible, there would be people with a recorded IQ of 10,000.

      There ARE people working a hundred times better connected than others though.

    114. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      Not that I'm recommending it necessarily, but to be quite blunt that means we could eradicate poverty in the U.S. by liquidating 6 people.

      Imagine that, in exchange for 6 people being made to live a decent middle class life rather than one of extravagance, poverty could be literally wiped out in the U.S.

    115. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 0

      No

      Translation: "It's not my fucking problem to save every soul on this earth. If someone wants to help them, let them--but not on my dime."

    116. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 0

      No

    117. Re:I really hate this article by shiftless · · Score: 1

      That's one hell of an "extension" you're making there, since they are two completely different things.

      Example of my point: I know a guy who was adopted. He was raised by the most loving adoptive family imaginable. His dad is a cop (the old school kind, not a militaristic thug) and a good father. He's been raised right. Sadly this was all wasted effort because he is genetically flawed. He will continue lying, stealing, drinking, causing chaos, and hurting people and himself until the day he kills himself through his own stupidity.

      If a person is genetically a FUCKING LOSER, no amount of government handholding is going to reform them.

    118. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      You use the same arguments as the caste system.

    119. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      There's that word. "Deserve". There is no such thing as deserve. They make the money, you have no right to it. Don't blather to me about a social contract, either, I agree we have to pay taxes. You're not talking about fairly levied taxes, you're talking about their labor and effort as if you or the government own it and they have to deserve it.

      So to answer your question, they have done whatever they did to earn the money to deserve it. It's literally as simple as that.

    120. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. So some guy who invents a widget and goes on to earn $500 million can't pass that wealth on to his children because you, God, don't think they deserve it and that we, the Government, should take it from him at gunpoint?

      It's funny that his children don't deserve it but a bunch of fucking lowlife shitbags spitting out 10 kids they can't afford do "deserve" it. Amusing.

    121. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 0

      Exactly. "Whhaaaa! That guy got rich because I buy shit from him I don't actually need all that much! Help, I'm being oppressed!". This place is fucking sickening. Used to be cool about 15 years ago, kind of a libertarian haunt but now it's a bunch of Eurotrash and Americans who are ashamed to be American.

    122. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      If only you understood money and work.

      Your idea is somewhere nearly as bright as suggesting that we could solve poverty by just printing a trillion dollars and giving it out to everyone.

    123. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      So government is all about giving money to "lowlife shitbags"? You have a curious grasp of what the US budget is made of.

      http://www.federalbudget.com/

      BTW it is the government that institutes an guarantees contractual laws and property rights, without which a market economy and merit based wealth accumulation cannot happen.

      As a father I really expect my kids to earn their own way. Frankly, if you think you need to give your kids more than $5 millions so that they'll be a success in life, than you really failed parenting school big time.

    124. Re:I really hate this article by akalaniz · · Score: 0

      Let's turn your question around.

      What meritous work do the 1% do to deserve the rapidly increasing and disproportionate chunk of the wealth that they get?

      Power laws. The network connectivity to planetary assets by the top percentiles far exceeds the tiers down below, and Moore's-like laws lead to increasingly disproportionate growth. All roads once led to Rome, but everyone still had to walk or ride horses at best. Today technology is in runaway self-criticality. Who will first be able to afford creating improved offspring and buy life extension technology as it takes off? The race will become more disproportionate. Barring some great Mad Max catastrophe, which I don't buy into (we're more likely to vanish entirely than pull off some Hollywood fantasy) it is likely already too late I suspect. The bulk of us have been run off the cliff. We just haven't struck the ground yet.

    125. Re:I really hate this article by sjames · · Score: 1

      And your brilliant solution is?

      You couldn't even retain the first clause of the sentence long enough to connect it to the rest!

      Note, if we printed a trillion dollars and handed it out, I'm well aware of the massive inflation. When the economy settled again, there would actually be less disparity in wealth than before, but the chaos of the situation would probably make it not quite worth while.

      OTOH, a less ham fisted approach of the basic income would go a long way without all that chaos.

    126. Re:I really hate this article by EdgeCreeper · · Score: 1

      Ah, a budding eugenicist. You do realise that the traits a child manifests are not necessarily the traits either of their parents manifested. This is high school chemistry class material.

    127. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not what was discussed. I replied to a post specifically stating that any one of _US_ (i.e. already born humans) could become homeless. So don't twist my words.

      The very few people who are born into a homeless environment or the very few people with other unjust or unlucky stories leading to their state of homelessness have my sympathies. But the vast majority of homeless people are drug addicts and alcoholics who fucked up their shit and deserve no sympathy. As Ricky Gervais once said, although not in exactly verbatim, "Don't applaud someone for not having done heroin in 6 months. Don't applaud someone for doing what they should have been doing from the first place."

    128. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      You're blathering the wrong argument to the wrong person. I'm not a "No government, maaaaan!" nitwit. We need government, social contract, blah blah blah. I just think government intervention in anything should be a dire necessity because it's the ultimate form of force and rife with potential for easy abuse.

      I want my kids to be safe and happy and _secure_. That's what money is, security. If I have $500 million when I die, they get it. Parenting isn't about withholding money from them so they have to succeed. What if they want to succeed at playing the cello, or writing books nobody wants to read? More importantly, the security that money gives them makes them safer if they do fail. That's what I'm buying with the effort I put into making that $500m, or the luck - either way.

      If giving your kids too much money feeds some character flaw in them, you created that character flaw as a parent not the money. But more importantly, it's not your or the government's business.

      I'd just tax it as normal income, like anything else should be. All these bullshit little tax breaks should be eliminated for the middle class and the wealthy, and all income of any type from any source taxed at the same slighly graduated rate.

    129. Re:I really hate this article by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Buyer beware?

      Sure you can always blame it on the poor sucker that bought what he was told.

      And to answer your question - a LOT of people who COULD afford their homes before their crap flex interest rate loans went up lost their homes. Were they stupid to buy flex rate? Perhaps...but if you take into consideration that the interest rates wouldn't have gone through the roof if the financial system hadn't crashed due to various reasons which all seem to have, to some degree or another, corporate greed as their driving force. More people lost their jobs and couldn't make their normal payments. Banks charging 30% on credit cards (which used to be illegal) certainly didn't help.

      People need a certain level of protection against those stronger than them which the government should be providing but isn't. So yes it's the governments' fault, and yes it sure as hell is the financial industries fault. In many cases no doubt it is also the fault of those who really couldn't afford their homes but for the vast majority I suspect that if there hadn't been a financial meltdown and economic depression they would have been able to afford their homes just fine and so no, I don't blame them.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    130. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you may not realize it but you are a "No government man".

      Having been born and raised in Germany I have the reasonable expectation that the government will help in case of personal emergency. That's what social insurance programs are for.

      For instance my kids don't need excessive amounts of dollars so that they could financially survive a medical crisis because the public health insurance will cover that.

      In a reasonably designed welfare state $5 millions will keep you perfectly safe and sound and you can work on your cello or book writing career. Although I'd still suggest you won't be happy if nobody wants to listen to your music or read your books.

    131. Re:I really hate this article by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      This is why the welfare state will fail, even Germany who is doing pretty well right now because they are the financial nexus of Europe. It's ironic that what most of the "99%" hate most is the only thing keeping Germany afloat right now. They have corporations and banks which service the rest of EU and rake money into Germany.

      Unless you have a rich relative who _did_ work to earn money, you should not be comfortable doing something nobody wants. We don't make progress like that, and economies will grind to a halt if people are too safe and sound doing nothing useful. The only thing society should provide is a social net for temporary need, and the _bare_ rudiments of survival. So (cheap, basic) food and shelter and emergency health care. That's it. And the US does provide those things.

      Slashdot isn't geared towards coming back in ten years to a thread and telling you I told you so, so I'll tell you I told you so now. Germany will suffer a massive decline in quality of living because its economy is unsustainable. When the rest of the EU crashes, it will crash. It is a parasite that depends on its host, and when that host suffers it suffers.

      You are a successful nation because your forefathers understood the need to work. Now you've forgotten and think that you can all just take care of each other in your pristine little welfare state. Well, it won't work for much longer.

    132. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social mobility in the US and other countries is dead because the school systems make an joke of themselves.
      They dumbed down the curriculum for the common people so much that the worthy ones are unable to learn and then earn some useful degree.
      Someone will succeed anyway, but the great majority of the people able to do so will be severely handicapped from the start.
      Not so the rich, because they will go to the best schools, where they will be forced to compete and the expectations are anyway higher.

      So, in this system, the rich are more trained than the poor so it is not strange that the poor are near always outperformed by the rich.
      A bad school system will close the window of opportunity before it have the chance to open for the poor.
      Is it strange it is a government run school system?

    133. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      It's called "insurance" for a reason. Again you display a very strange view on reality. The German unemployment rate just hit a record low of 6.6% (and our rate is real - we don't have people drop from the list like the US when the benefits run out).

      Also productivity increase in Germany was the best of all G7 countries in the last decade.

      On the other hand our welfare state goes back half a century. Obviously its parameters have to be tweaked constantly but it in the long run it has not hurt us a bit (despite us having to absorb East Germany in between). Nor has it hurt the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands, etc.

      It always amuses me how "Socialist" Europe is talked down in the US. Frankly it delivered quite nicely.

      The current Euro woes are inherently uncorrelated, and very much predicted, as a currency without a common budget can not really work. In a sense this was by design, to create economic facts that'll force tighter integration.

      If you wait to have history prove you right you are in for a very long wait. But at least you can die without ever having to reconsider your preconceived notions.

    134. Re:I really hate this article by Yev000 · · Score: 1

      Wow....

    135. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're starving to death? Had you considered selling your computer?

      The real 99% at last know what it means to go hungry. You and your computer are the 1%. Get over yourself.

    136. Re:I really hate this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Past a certain point, why would I continue to work if I can't do the best by my children?

      In any society that progresses, some people will be born into wealth.

      The 1% do the most important work by the standards of our society; even those that don't do any work. That many people would consider this to be wrong tells us that there's something wrong with society. Don't go blaming the people who win the game.

      If you have a problem with this, it's time to start your own political party and start campaigning.

      But you're not going to, are you? You're going to sit there and bitch. If you're really well motivated, you might get of your ass and join on of those waffly, ill-defined "Occupy" movements.

    137. Re:I really hate this article by quax · · Score: 1

      Past a certain point, why would I continue to work if I can't do the best by my children?

      Man, your life must suck if your hate your line of work that much. Some people actually enjoy what they are doing. My parents are way past their seventies but they still practice medicine because that's what they love to do.

      The 1% do the most important work by the standards of our society; even those that don't do any work.

      I am really trying hard to parse this sentence. So even those 1%ers who don't work do the most important work? Sorry, you lost me.

  2. Great! by 32771 · · Score: 2

    You guys over there need more homeless people.

    --
    Je me souviens.
    1. Re:Great! by pluther · · Score: 5, Funny

      We're working on it!

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    2. Re:Great! by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      I'm thinkin no.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    3. Re:Great! by 32771 · · Score: 1

      You are a great straight man. Basically I agree but I still need to joke about this foolish notion that scientists should just live in homeless shelters.

      --
      Je me souviens.
  3. Succeeding in a public school, yet! by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well done of her to rise up and be counted. Amazingly, despite everything thrown at her by people who would go so far as to condemn her for the social and financial position of her family, she's using it as self-motivation. Has to be cruel to be homeless and one of the National School Lunch Program kids in a world where many children go out of their way (starving effectively) to hide the shame of their family's misfortune.

    Any candidates for public office feel like giving her parents some employment or shall we go the usual route, use her as an example the American Dream isn't dead, yet, and then abandon them for the next popular thing on the campaign trail?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Succeeding in a public school, yet! by hitmark · · Score: 1

      If i was a betting man, i would put my money on "example of the american dream".

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    2. Re:Succeeding in a public school, yet! by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Any candidates for public office feel like giving her parents some employment or shall we go the usual route, use her as an example the American Dream isn't dead, yet, and then abandon them for the next popular thing on the campaign trail?

      It's not employment, but a few sources are reporting that county officials are giving her family an apartment to live in. Here's hoping they don't rescind it after she passes from the national spotlight.

  4. I don't get it by TWX · · Score: 1

    The summary says her research is based on her family living arrangements. Is she planning on growing a shell or something?

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:I don't get it by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 4, Funny

      The summary says her research is based on her family living arrangements. Is she planning on growing a shell or something?

      Perhaps. I would imagine crabs being introduced into a homeless shelter is not that uncommon.

    2. Re:I don't get it by jd · · Score: 1

      Maybe one of her siblings is a geek that uses C shell.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:I don't get it by jcombel · · Score: 1

      The summary does not say this.

    4. Re:I don't get it by oldmac31310 · · Score: 2

      Oh you shellfish bastard!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    5. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe she is living in slums filled with predators and without police around who care about street trash. So she has had to form a thicker metaphoric shell.

    6. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She probably can relate to the mussels. The more that homeless get harrassed out on the street, they adapt by adding more layers of cardboard boxes, newspapers, plastic bags, and carpet remnants to their makeshift shelter.

  5. Exception or the rule? by jamesh · · Score: 1

    So are all homeless people geniuses or have they just stumbled across one homeless person who happens to have a brilliant mind and extrapolated that finding to all homeless people?

    1. Re:Exception or the rule? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      It's the long tail and unfortunately this kind of thing tends to be used as justification for cutting benefits for people in poverty. Because clearly if the other homeless weren't so lazy they wouldn't be homeless.

    2. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 5, Informative

      In all probability, homeless people will follow the same distribution curve as everyone else. That would imply that 2% of all homeless people have an IQ of 148 or above (UK's IQ scale, use your local Mensa entry requirement to figure out what's equal to that) and that 30.9% would be able to complete a degree program if given the opportunity.

      The Great Source of Wisdom says that there's up to 2 million people in the US who are homeless at any given time, some on a more permanent basis than others. It's a fair bet that even the transients aren't really able to get into a university though.

      That would give you 40,000 people of Mensa-level intelligence and around 618,000 people who would be able to complete further education. Finding one person of either level of ability shouldn't be that hard or even unusual - 40,000 people can't be easy to miss and well over half a million should be blatantly obvious.

      Now, the median income of people with a bachelor's degree was 40K in 2009. That's the 25% tax bracket. So, the government is losing 10K per year per person who could have a degree but doesn't, which works out to $6.18 billion just from lost income tax revenue. That's ignoring anything such people might invent or contribute to society (and it's clear from even the one example that these are people who are just as able to contribute as anyone) along with all the money the government could collect from businesses as a result of such contributions. That's a hell of a lot of money to be throwing away. I like pragmatic socialism (note the "pragmatic" part) and social justice, so naturally I want fewer homeless people for those reasons. Particularly because I'm pragmatic - that's over half a million potential innovations that won't happen, over half a million potential entrepreneurs that won't get to start anything... Yes, there will always be homeless and the country can't afford to take care of everyone, we all know that, but this goes well beyond what is sane or rational. The desire to be seen as anti-socialist has become moronic and self-destructive.

      Nobody can help everybody, but $6bln aught to be more than enough to cover the costs of helping far, far more than we are.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:Exception or the rule? by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In all probability, homeless people will follow the same distribution curve as everyone else

      Sorry, but I seriously doubt that. A very large percentage of the homeless population are there because they have mental disorders. I'm pretty sure that there's a much larger proportion of people with an IQ of 80 than those who have an IQ of 120

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are correct about the mental disorders, but bipolar people are famous for unusually high IQs as are people with HFA and LFA, and all of these have mental disorders that cause considerable problems with social interactions of any kind (including keeping a roof over their heads).

      Mental disorder rates by State

      90% of homeless in UK excluded from education

      IQ study in US shows "WAIS-R scores were comparable to population means".

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    5. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes and many of theses disorders are treatable, if you have enough money... Otherwise if you have a depressive episode or some other problem (but depression is the most common psychological disease) and end up out of work before your diagnoses you are stuffed and will stay needlessly unemployable and therefore homeless permanently. Note that a socialized, or government payed private provided medical system solves this.

    6. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah! Mensa, only slightly less irritating than menses!

    7. Re:Exception or the rule? by jamesh · · Score: 1

      You might be right about the IQ scores of the homeless (although I would expect a slightly higher distribution at the higher and lower ends of the curve and less in the middle) but to extrapolate those IQ scores into an ability to hold a job and contribute to society is possibly flawed. But I agree with the rest of what you said - there are far worse ways to spend $6bn than helping homeless people, assuming it's done properly, and even if you only got jobs and homes for half of those people it's still money well spent.

    8. Re:Exception or the rule? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Considering the number of forclosures the U.S. has experienced over the last couple of years, I'd be willing to bet you could find more than a few homeless people with existing degrees.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    9. Re:Exception or the rule? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Not all, but neither are all rich people geniuses.

      You can be very talented and smart person, but still being overrun by even richer and greed people and you end up homeless.
      But you can be homeless and overseen by richer and scarier people, but still have more talents and smarter than they are.

    10. Re:Exception or the rule? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I recall seeing a study that confirmed the link between IQ and child malnutrition - simply put, if you don't eat enough (and well) as a kid, it stymies mental as well as physical development. It's part of why scores are so low in most of Africa.

      Given this, and the fact that poverty is largely generational, I'd expect the distribution to be different.

    11. Re:Exception or the rule? by narcc · · Score: 1

      No kidding!

      Ever been to a Mensa meeting? Most worthless and uninteresting bunch of people you'll ever meet.

      If you've ever wondered why the best and the brightest aren't proud members of Mensa, it's because the best and brightest have better things to do than metaphorically measure their dicks with the basement dwellers at the local Mensa chapter.

      (The rampant bigotry also makes those who don't need external validation feel uncomfortable.)

    12. Re:Exception or the rule? by phorm · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately other issues (malnourishment, disease and other things associate with being on the streets) probably lower the bar for many people. You might have a healthy mind, but a healthy mind depends on a healthy body too.

    13. Re:Exception or the rule? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      In all probability, homeless people will follow the same distribution curve as everyone else. That would imply that 2% of all homeless people have an IQ of 148 or above (UK's IQ scale, use your local Mensa entry requirement to figure out what's equal to that) and that 30.9% would be able to complete a degree program if given the opportunity.

      That's a big assumption you're making. Homeless people may be high school drop outs, mentally ill, alcoholics, drug-addicts, criminals on the run, illegal immigrants, and some of them may already be college graduates.

      Now, the median income of people with a bachelor's degree was 40K in 2009. That's the 25% tax bracket. So, the government is losing 10K per year per person who could have a degree but doesn't, which works out to $6.18 billion just from lost income tax revenue.

      Do we really have shortage of college graduates? Most jobs out there (the non-technical ones at least) can be done by kids no older than 15 years old. Most employers require college degrees as a way to weed out the pile of resumes. If we make sure everybody gets a bachelor degree, then won't the college degree itself become worthless?

    14. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The homeless in America aren't lazy, they're mentally ill. And when this kid's inherited schizotypal personality traits catch up with her it won't matter that she used to be an A student.

    15. Re:Exception or the rule? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I knew one really smart homeless guy. He found Jesus, tried to clean his life up...I guess the Jesus thing didn't work out though because he threw himself off a bridge :-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    16. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In FY 2012 the federal government is spending north of $300 billion on welfare programs (minus unemployment) and around $250 billion for Medicaid and SCHIP. $6 billion is a pittance. This does not even include all of the state spending.

    17. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My family was once homeless. My brother had the lowest IQ in our family. It was 167.

      What were you saying about homeless people?

    18. Re:Exception or the rule? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Anecdote does not equal data. While I'm sure there are plenty intelligent people who are homeless, what I was saying was that the average intelligence of homeless people is probably lower then the average of the entire population.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    19. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 1

      You are correct. The problem is that it has to be 6 bln spent intelligently, in a highly targeted fashion. I don't see that happen to often, although there is nothing to stop it from happening. Slash the homeless figures and you also slash the amount needed on welfare programs, so logically sensible spending is also cost-effective in the long-term.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    20. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 1

      You are correct that holding a job (and other social requirements) would be a challenge, but there's plenty of dysfunctional people able to hold very good jobs so I don't see that as being a fatal flaw. The IQ score assumption is based on the NIH and NHS data I reference in another reply - there's solid grounds for thinking the distribution is correct. Whether you can then make the extrapolation that this would broaden the industrial and scientific base of the US - that, I think, would only be answerable by carrying out the experiment.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    21. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 1

      I've answered the distribution issue elsewhere, the stats do tend to suggest that the distribution of intelligence amongst the homeless is about the same as that of the housed. Whether it's usable intelligence, that's another issue. And, yes, some are college graduates (and of those, some have PhDs). That knowledge and intelligence has value and under-utilizing it is costing the US. Where the degrees are already there, the question is less of how to get the people to the qualifications they are capable of but to a position where they utilize them. There is clearly a major failing.

      Yes, we have a shortage of graduates. If you think of the job market as a gigantic pyramid with the lowest-grade at the base, then current technology (and unskilled labour from overseas) has effectively shifted the entire pyramid up a level. You also need to consider the industrial and scientific base of the country. We have too few types of job, too few fields of endeavor, for the population. We need more types of job, more lines of research, more fields of industry. We do NOT need more of the same, we need diversity. And you don't get that without a surfeit of highly intelligent, creative minds.

      The current employers are of no interest because that's old lines of work and most of those career paths are not going to survive as technology evolves. You need the next generation of creators and you won't get the kind of thinking needed from 15yos. We're not talking the next Nokia, we have too many cell phone companies making too poor a product. We're talking industries that don't exist yet because nobody has thought of them. To do that takes serious education.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    22. Re:Exception or the rule? by jd · · Score: 1

      That is true. See Jamie Oliver's campaign for the typical reaction towards healthy eating even in normal folk, though, together with what happens when the population does eat well. (You can guess the former, the latter is about a 10-15% improvement in intelligence and a 33% reduction in sickness.)

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    23. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Now, the median income of people with a bachelor's degree [ed.gov] was 40K in 2009. That's the 25% tax bracket. So, the government is losing 10K per year per person who could have a degree but doesn't, "

      TAX BRACKETS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

    24. Re:Exception or the rule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gaussian curves only work with normal distributions.

  6. How is this even... by Bitsy+Boffin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    America (I'm addressing you as a whole).

    How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

    WTF is wrong with you people?!

    You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

    And you have whole families, school children, living in homeless shelters.

    I don't care how they came to be in the situation, it doesn't matter how that happened, what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

    For every one remarkable individual like this who manages to overcome the adversity, I hate to think how many are dragged down by the circumstance.

    --
    NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
    1. Re:How is this even... by Ouchie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Income inequality is just envy. - Mitt Romney

      --
      "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." ~Ozzy Osborne
    2. Re:How is this even... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 5, Informative

      America (I'm addressing you as a whole).
      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".


      Name the country that does not have homeless people. Not saying the US does not have problems (oh hells yes we do!), but there are homeless everywhere.

    3. Re:How is this even... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Informative

      America (I'm addressing you as a whole).

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      WTF is wrong with you people?!

      You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

      And you have whole families, school children, living in homeless shelters.

      I don't care how they came to be in the situation, it doesn't matter how that happened, what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      For every one remarkable individual like this who manages to overcome the adversity, I hate to think how many are dragged down by the circumstance.

      There are those who are homeless in America by choice (live in one of the larger cities in California and you'll know what I mean), many of them prefer the freedom to ru(i)n their own lives for substances or alcohol. I'll give them food, but no money.

      There are those who are homeless due to misfortune - lost of job, breadwinner in family, foreclosure of house loan, etc. These people are not at the bottom of the barrel, but without some form of assistance they could be there. There are shelters and federal and state programs to help them - often those still living in their cars are due to some failure to abide rules or restrictions of shelters. Where I work we track about 1,000 of these families. It's not a small issue, but those people, like this student have a good chance of getting back into a place they can call their own when the economy bounces back.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:How is this even... by DriedClexler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, puh-f'in-leeze. As if there aren't homeless on the streets, probably more, in every other OECD country.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    5. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      My mother works at one. These families do get everything they need to get back on their feet, they really do. No one wants to see women and children on the street and there really isn't any excuse for it. Unfortunately, not every mother is worth anything. I wish we could take more children away from some of these women sometimes. Some of them are great mothers and manage to make it into government subsidized homes, but some are on the run from CPS and run from shelter to shelter to shelter. The shelter gives every child a free breakfast before class and the mothers are required to take them to it, but some just don't seem to give a damn about their own kids and send them to class late and hungry. It's a tough situation indeed. Very depressing.

      It's good to see a homeless kid trying her best. So many of them just give up on school completely and barely learn to read with no support from any parent. Hopefully her parents are pushing her.

    6. Re:How is this even... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 2

      >> You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

      1995 called. Supper is on an you have to go home now.

    7. Re:How is this even... by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh, you realize that even in communist Russia, where it was a crime to be homeless, and housing was provided for free, there were still homeless people? Ending homelessness is not as easy as you think at first.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've encountered 1 beggar in 20 years of living in several different places in Denmark. I lost count after the first day I arrived in the US. There are poorer countries than the US who have less of a homeless problem.

    9. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

      That's odd... Because my understanding is that we are 15 TRILLION dollars in debt and can't afford all the stupid bullshit we're doing now, let alone provide housing for every man, woman, and child in this country...

      WTF is wrong with you people?!

      ...Indeed.

    10. Re:How is this even... by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Name the country that does not have homeless people.

      Yea, that's telling 'em. America, the great and power, is just as powerless as everyone else to resolve a social problem that may be unsolvable. Of course, America isn't really interested in solving that social problem. I don't mean this as a slander or an insult. It's precisely the belief in a sort of Social Darwinism that has made the US such a great power (it also helps that it has a lot of natural resources and a climate that readily allows for most of their extraction, a relatively large amount of space which keeps down the cost of living in most the country, and an effective imperialist agenda not unlike many other empires of the past which might have more to do with it) that keeps a lot of social reform discussion from even coming up; I mean, why fight against a gifted horse just to help a few people? Then there is...

      Not saying the US does not have problems (oh hells yes we do!), but there are homeless everywhere.

      Hunger is everywhere. Vaccinatable childhood diseases are everywhere. A need for high-speed travel for the movement of both goods and people exists everywhere. The desire for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness exists everywhere. I guess we can't actually do anything about any of the above then, though. I mean, the US has problems...like homelessness..so we can't actually discuss working to fix homelessness. That's some master deflection; how about at least trying in the slightest to offer a few valid ideas on why homelessness can't be eradication entirely? That'd probably be an actually valid argument. Of course, that still leaves the potential of homeless almost being entirely eradicated (ie, that the few special cases that show homelessness is inherently inevitable doesn't explain not dealing with homelessness for the vast majority of the homeless).

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    11. Re:How is this even... by hedwards · · Score: 2

      I had a coworker briefly that was doing that. On what we were making I couldn't blame him for that, I'm sure he was a lot more comfortable that way than worrying about having money for rent, and with a job he had the option of staying in a motel during cold snaps.

      The bigger question though is why in a country that's so wealthy we tolerate people living on the streets out of necessity. We have the money to ensure that those folks have at least rudimentary shelter and yet we choose to provide very little.

    12. Re:How is this even... by SammyIAm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      What do you think homeless shelters are for?

    13. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Simple: Americans believe in the just-world hypothesis. They believe that "God helps those who help themselves."

      Americans believe that anyone who is homeless is homeless because they deserve to be homeless. The proof is simple: they're homeless. If they didn't deserve to be homeless, they wouldn't be.

      Likewise, the rich are rich because they deserve to be rich. Taking away their riches in the form of taxes would be unjust, because they clearly earned their riches and didn't simply inherit them or steal them. We know that because they're rich. If they didn't deserve to be rich, they wouldn't be.

      Once you understand that this is how Americans almost universally think, the objection to universal health care and the refusal to fund programs to help the homeless should become clear. Americans don't believe in bad luck, they believe in a vengeful God.

    14. Re:How is this even... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most western nations will provide at least a flat to their poor. The only homeless they have are people whose psychiatric problems cause them to refuse the help. The U.S. really is dead last amongst the 1st world.

    15. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are poorer countries than the US who have less of a homeless problem.

      I daresay they have less strict definitions of "home".

    16. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Long and the short of it is that we've allowed a new, hereditary aristocracy to persuade us that our best interests are aligned with theirs.

      Oh, they're smarter in many ways than the nobility of the past. They know how to blend in just a bit better, while still flaunting their wealth. They've bent the principles of equality and the perception thereof, and corrupted the American Dream, locking everyone else out, but allowing them to still dream the dream.

      This new aristocracy has their fiefdoms in the corporations; they own our government lock, stock and barrel; they keep us at war.

      They own the majority of the media and the mediums, and what they don't have yet, they're working diligently to take. And what information and knowledge there is, they ensure not only control of, but fight to make you pay for.

      And they've persuaded too many people of this nation that caring for the sick and the elderly is somehow evil; that educating the next generation is a waste of money; that governments are not, in fact, created by men to secure the fundamental rights as described by Jefferson. In fact, they've gone so far as to persuade many of the citizenry that any sort of organization that builds out the infrastructure, education and welfare of the people simply for the sake of doing so is fundamentally evil. They've even gone so far as to pervert Christianity to be a worship of wealth.

      And at the same time, we're provided with an ample supply of soma in the form of so-called reality television, video games, professional sports circuses and other thought destroying noise.

      That's what's happened to us, and that is why we allow this.

      And those who have made issue of it are called dirty, unwashed lazy hippies, or seekers of entitlement - an incredibly ironic term, given that it comes from the rights of the nobility - those with title. They've lumped the terms "fascism", "communism", and "socialism" all into one inclusive bucket, not realizing the extremely significant differences between them, nor that our nation has become ruled by the corporations, nor that a certain amount of socialism is required for a society of the size and with the population density that ours has.

      That's what's wrong with my people.

      --
      Check your premises.
    17. Re:How is this even... by tomhath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Her father was renting a place that was too expensive, he couldn't afford the rent so they were evicted. Stayed for free in a shelter for a few days until he found something else. What do you find "wrong" about that? Society helped them out with a safety net until they were able to help themselves.

    18. Re:How is this even... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but maybe if we stopped the "stupid bullshit" like having military bases in a ridiculous fucking number of countries, making war all the time, putting up monuments and public buildings that look like Roman Imperial architecture, blowing public funds on stadia and "art", running huge government agencies that really do very little except retard progress... maybe we could do better on the social safety net front.

      Nah, fuck it, let's just elect the same old people and get the same old results.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    19. Re:How is this even... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      Wait, you're complaining because we gave homeless people a place to live? What do you want, for them to live in Trump Tower and be fed caviar? Come on, what people need is enough to get back on their own two feet when life knocks them down. They don't need to have the world given to them.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    20. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      "Are there no workhouses?" and all that, right?

      --
      Check your premises.
    21. Re:How is this even... by mrcoolbp · · Score: 1

      America (I'm addressing you as a whole).

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      WTF is wrong with you people?!

      You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

      And you have whole families, school children, living in homeless shelters.

      I don't care how they came to be in the situation, it doesn't matter how that happened, what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      For every one remarkable individual like this who manages to overcome the adversity, I hate to think how many are dragged down by the circumstance.

      I'm confused by your comment sir; that is why we have homeless shelters (housing for people without houses, which the above family seem to be utilising) soup kitchens, food pantries, subsidized housing, halfway houses, and countless other social programs. Not saying "America, F YAH!" or anything but your (seemingly rhetorical) questions appear to have no merit.

      --
      check out www.soylentnews.org a community-driven alternative
    22. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wrong.


      Garvey and her family have lived in shelters and hotels since she was a little girl. Seven years ago, they were able to move into a house, but in February 2010, her parents were involved in a car accident. They were forced to leave.

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2012/01/homeless-teen-could-win-100000-science-prize-and-new-future-for-family/

      --
      Check your premises.
    23. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you have whole families, school children, living in homeless shelters.

      Because everyone who is homeless deserves it. They obviously aren't working hard enough.

      Except this one.

      But everyone else. Right?

    24. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      But that still makes up top of the third world!

      --
      Check your premises.
    25. Re:How is this even... by mutube · · Score: 1

      Uh, you realize that even in communist Russia, where it was a crime to be homeless, and housing was provided for free, there were still homeless people?

      Good point! If a systemically poor and inefficient country can't solve a problem like homelessness what hope does the United States of America have?

      [ That reads like sarcasm, but I assure you it's not ]

    26. Re:How is this even... by mutube · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are those who are homeless in America by choice.

      You mean, psychiatric patients for which there is inadequate support? Yes. I've seen a lot of those on the streets in America.

      Or individuals who have suffered abuse in the poorly regulated and underfunded state welfare system? Yes, lots of those too.

      But you're right... they prefer it like that. I assume you've spoken to them too?

    27. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only solution to homelessness is empowerment. If you give them money, some will abuse that money. If you give them housing, some will abuse that housing. With empowerment those who wish to succeed will succeed and become self-sufficient.

    28. Re:How is this even... by mutube · · Score: 1

      Statistically, a child born to a family that earned money is more likely to also be successful -- it's in their genes.

      That is the biggest I have ever seen. You say 'statistically' so I assume you have some numbers? 'In their genes?' 'Mutants?!' ...you're really not a biologist are you.

      So if we've decided to instead build rambling arguments on vague assumptions here are a couple of my own...
      1) people born from rich families have less incentive to work harder
      2) people from poor families have less opportunities to access well paid jobs or education

      So 'Statistically' it would make sense to provide considerably more money to individuals from poor backgrounds - since the combination of greater incentive and better (provided) funding would result in better results.

      I mean 'Statistically' as in 'talking out my ass'.

    29. Re:How is this even... by mbkennel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other words, yet another medical bankruptcy & destitution, which is almost uniquely American in developed nations.

    30. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America (I'm addressing you as a whole).

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      Name the country that does not have homeless people. Not saying the US does not have problems (oh hells yes we do!), but there are homeless everywhere.

      The parent was specifically asking about "young people", not homelessness in general.

    31. Re:How is this even... by tomhath · · Score: 2

      Garvey and her family have lived in shelters and hotels since she was a little girl

      Don't believe everything you see on TV. The family hasn't had it easy, but to say she's "lived in shelters and hotel since she was a little girl" is false.

      http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jyIz1qpm12mq4KEy3-CS4Z0HVcgg?docId=13c4979840884373a3c0e477d2aea9aa

    32. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Well said. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense what goes on here.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    33. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your excuse for every other case that falls through the cracks?

      Precisely.

      capcha: screwing. how appropriate

    34. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      From your own citation:


      Before the eviction, the Garveys had rented a home for six or seven years, Leo Garvey said. Before that, the family had also lived in homeless shelters from time to time; Leo Garvey described himself as a recovering alcoholic.

      So - like most homeless, in and out of rental properties. And most of her life, sound like.

      --
      Check your premises.
    35. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because people like like you assuage their conscience for what they are personally not doing but putting it off on some other?

      Is there a scholarship fund for her? At this point it feels less like charity and more like a solid investment.

    36. Re:How is this even... by mutube · · Score: 2

      Capitalism is an economic equivalent to Darwin's survival of the fittest. There are merits to this, despite the corruption.

      This is repeated ad nauseum as an excuse for the excesses of capitalism at the expense of everything else. The suggestion is of the 'survival of fittest' (not a phrase Darwin ever used) and a fight to the death with every one for themselves. Sure. Capitalism can mimic that, but it's not an 'ideal' by any stretch of the imagination. Darwinism is associated with explosions, crashes and extinctions of entire species, communities and populations.

      Unsuprisingly, Darwinian models are applied to economics as a glorified regulator of companies - not individuals, families and communities that just as equally 'survive' on the existence of these companies. Is a company going out business, that in turn destroys family livelihood, community and in some cases entire towns, dismissable as just 'survival of the fittest'? Evolution? If your answer is yes, you're basically a sociopath.

      The advantage we have over evolution or nature is the ability to see and predict events in advance of when they happen. We should use it. Evolution is completely reactive - and as a result over and under compensates and bears the brunt. We have a choice. We can do better.

      We are not 'Darwinian' except through negligence.

    37. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you up but I've already commented. Well said. And I might add, the homeless people that people see are the ones they loathe - the ones on the street, begging, the unwashed, the crazy. Just because that is the visible side of homelessness does not mean that all of the other homeless people are like this. This is a heartless country, it has to be said.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    38. Re:How is this even... by uncanny · · Score: 1

      How is it that you allow.....

      providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      conservatives call any government social programs "nazi"-esque and we take turns electing them into office (see 2012 presidential election for reference)

    39. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, psychiatric patients for which there is inadequate support? Yes. I've seen a lot of those on the streets in America.
      Or individuals who have suffered abuse in the poorly regulated and underfunded state welfare system? Yes, lots of those too.
      But you're right... they prefer it like that. I assume you've spoken to them too?

      There really are people who prefer to live outdoors, and I've spoken and provided medical care to some of them. They're usually people who never put down roots in their life, worked traveling or seasonal jobs, often have close friendships and sometimes family but spread widely. They simply prefer not living with a roof over their head, or staying in one place for too long. It feels uncomfortably confining or restraining. Some of them even have bank accounts and enough money that they could pay rent if they wanted. Substance abuse is often not a factor. Perhaps more common among veterans, but you can't chalk it up to untreated PTSD or other mental illness because they don't meet criteria for these diseases (and the lifestyle choice is lifelong).

      This phenomenon doesn't represent the majority of homelessness even in California, but it does exist. Admitting that doesn't take anything away from the real problems that cause most homelessness - substance abuse, joblessness, medical bills, etc. - and the inadequacy of our system for dealing with it.

    40. Re:How is this even... by taylortbb · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between "can't afford" and "not willing to pay for". If you look at the US and government spending as a percentage of GDP ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending#Government_spending_as_a_percentage_of_GDP ) it's not that out of line with other countries. The problem is that taxation as a percentage of GDP hasn't kept up to pay for it all.

      I'm not going to say the US shouldn't cut anything, but what to cut is really outside the scope of this and discussing it wouldn't end well. To point is just that, other economically successful countries (say Canada, which doesn't have a debt crisis) manage with governments that spend an even larger amount of money. The US could afford what it currently spends if it raised taxes to levels seen in many other developed countries, or even just close to those levels.

    41. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      And, I'm guessing now, but most urban or suburban places in the US have a lot of vacant dwellings of various sorts. But of course it would take labelling homelessness as an emergency situation to enable local government to temporarily allocate such vacant and financially useless dwellings for homeless housing. Understandable from the point of view of the private owner but still. Is it really necessary to have people living in shelters? - those that otherwise might make a go of it and at least subsist. Getting rich as some idiot suggested is not the issue, but to survive with potential to thrive in the future. Hard to do if you have no place to call home.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    42. Re:How is this even... by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      blowing public funds on stadia and "art" ... maybe we could do better on the social safety net front.

      Countries with strong welfare states also heavily subsidize the arts, because the arts are considered vital for quality of life. I live in Finland, and ticket prices for orchestral concerts (and an orchestra is provided even in the smaller towns) are kept low by state subsidy so that anyone, regardless of his class, can have access to fine music. The same goes for museum entry in most Western countries.

      If you cut arts subsidies, the only entertainment that the poor will have access to are vacuous things like reality television and highly formulaic pop music.

    43. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      I have to say that the welfare system in the US is seriously fucked up. The problem is so often that those who know how to game the system do so and often live better than people trying to do it the honest way. Then the people who most need the justified (in my opinion) help and hand outs often have no clue how to get what they need and fall by the wayside. Or they somehow don't qualify for what they should get for whatever reason. The welfare system here should be reformed but the danger in that is that it would just get further cut back without actually addressing the real issues of abuse of the system by undeserving welfare recipients.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    44. Re:How is this even... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's not a matter of having enough wealth. Russia under communism may have been poorer than the US (hard to say they were poor, since by most standards throughout history they were quite wealthy), but they certainly had enough to build houses for everyone.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    45. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, ending homelessness realizes you!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    46. Re:How is this even... by nimbius · · Score: 1

      There are those who are homeless in America by choice (live in one of the larger cities in California and you'll know what I mean), many of them prefer the freedom to ru(i)n their own lives for substances or alcohol. I'll give them food, but no money.

      There are those who are homeless due to misfortune - lost of job, breadwinner in family, foreclosure of house loan, etc. These people are not at the bottom of the barrel, but without some form of assistance they could be there. There are shelters and federal and state programs to help them - often those still living in their cars are due to some failure to abide rules or restrictions of shelters. Where I work we track about 1,000 of these families. It's not a small issue, but those people, like this student have a good chance of getting back into a place they can call their own when the economy bounces back.

      this is actually a perception that is well documented by social scientists. many americans believe the poor and homeless exist because its a conscious choice they made. rags-to-riches and the self-made-man are also common misconceptions perpetuated in american capitalism. the truth of the matter is that without extensive government assistance, most of these individuals will never see a place they can call their own due to numerous social and political issues of inequality they are so divorced from affecting.

      it reads at a somewhat academic level, but a good source to understand just we mean when we say "poor people are poor because they want to be" is martin margers text "Social Inequality: Patterns and Processes."

      --
      Good people go to bed earlier.
    47. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This may be harsh, but aren't homeless shelters in some sense a means of addressing this? I know a home is more than just a form of shelter, but the survival needs are provided by them.

    48. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he means literally people that prefer a lifestyle without a physical house and prefer living int heir (non-RV) car.

      They may or may not have psychiatric problems, I personally don't know. I have heard a fair few stories about people that have lived like that by choice, however.

      And, of course, some have said that despite the savings, they still didn't enjoy it and would never go back. Others seem to love it.

    49. Re:How is this even... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      For the same reason they condemn houses and buildings in Detroit so a homeless person won't occupy it. For the same reason worthless fat bastard radio talk show hosts spread hate towards people that have nothing by telling people they are getting over on all the hard working people. Money and opportunity is erroding upwards towards the 1% so fast people are afraid of becoming one of those homeless persons so they push and kick and claw over anyone and anything to keep their heads above water. Simply. The fear mongers and sell outs have been effective.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    50. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Surely this is not flamebait. Come on mods! It is humourous, sarcastic and indeed satirical in a good way. It invites rebuttal and that's a good thing too. I just wish the poster was not AC. I'm guessing he/she is a regular on /. that didn't want to get burned.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    51. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Rubbish. Start to finish. Rubbish.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    52. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you up but I've already commented (more than once). Well said.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    53. Re:How is this even... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      My feeling is, when you have everyone fed, housed and provided with medical care, then you look at your budget, and if there's room for arts, fine, if not, tough.

      Also, there are plenty of sources of orchestral music, plays, etc. that are accessible to the poor. One doesn't have to support a bloody opera-house to see to that.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    54. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 2

      Squabbling over the arts when we outspend the rest of the world combined on the military really is somewhat ridiculous, at best.

      --
      Check your premises.
    55. Re:How is this even... by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      USA has very much very loving people, and USA is #1 in the list of countries what has strongest religion believe to God.

      But the problem is, most people in USA has been under terrorism since 50's.... USA government and big corporations are terrorizing USA citizens to drive their own policies and bills. To get permission from the people to use country military to invade other countries to support USA corporations. And USA corporations owns media and they use that media to control what is shown and told to people so they would think what is wanted in daily basis. So they would not stop and start thinking freely with others.

      In USA, competition is one cause of everything bad what is happening.
      Corporations and government politicians makes sure that Media delivers to USA citizens a news of accidents, murders... all kind bad news to scare them.

      People are afraid to help others, they are afraid to stand up together to get things done better ways, because most believes that they are alone with such toughts that something should be done... but they are so scared that they can't discuss about it to anyone. As if someone would hear them talking about teamwork, about taking care of those who needs help, they could be tagged as communists or supporters of socialism (what is as bad as communism in USA) and no one wants that there.

      Terrorism and Competition are keys to control own citizens so they (rich and powerful) can have tough grip of them and squeeze everything out what they want.

    56. Re:How is this even... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I remember walking through Osaka and stumbling upon the mostly hidden homeless camp chock full of people. Most of the time you do not see anyone who looks even poor much less homeless. I wasn't sure if these people just hid away from embarrassment of being jobless or if there was an active "western nation" style of trying to explicitly hid them away from view.

      And yes, most western nations have homeless people, even those who are proud of pointing out how socially forward they are. The homeless are just better hidden in those places. Or they're reclassified (gypsies) or just aren't on the street.

      The student in the story is not living on the street, the typical stereotype that people in the US have of homeless people. Her family is in a shelter. It's not the same as a "flat for the poor" though, but often the reason for that is more about bureaucracy and getting on waiting lists and such. This is especially true of the newly homeless people; those who had jobs and lost them, they're not used to how the system works or how to apply for benefits, etc. There's also the idea that these people are definitely employable, but they just haven't found a job yet. The cheap welfare housing has no vacancy because it's full up with long term unemployable people and is in the slums with no mass transit access to get to where you're looking for a job. Most housing for the poor is not free but it is subsidized and requires paperwork, etc.

    57. Re:How is this even... by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      They are. But so were poorhouses a solution to the homeless and the poor. And poor farms were a solution to the elderly needing a place to live. And orphanages were a solution to the orphaned to have a place to live. What is the common theme in all of these things? They pushed people with a problem into a compartmentalized solution that stigmatized them for life and possibly trapped them. That doesn't mean the spirit behind the ideas were wrong. But the execution leaved something to be desired.

      In short, at some level, to be empowered to change and become part of "normal" society you have to have those stepping stones that make you *more* normal, not less.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    58. Re:How is this even... by russotto · · Score: 1

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      You prefer we make them live outside?

      You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

      With opportunity to succeed comes opportunity to fail.

    59. Re:How is this even... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      OK, I'll take the bait. What has religion got to do with anything in this discussion? Are you from China? I get the logic of what you say and agree to some degree but the syntax is a bit confusing.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    60. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just envy"

      The oft-used platitude of the rich and powerful

    61. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      housing stock is a profit source, privately owned for the most part. having decent affordable shelter is not a right in this country, despite "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". one group, real estate owners, developers, speculators, have purchased the right to profit, regardless of how this profit affects the lives of others. they are powerful, vicious, delusional in their belief that they provide any value to society. Until we can take the profit out of real estate, until the government can begin to provide for the "general welfare" by guaranteeing every person adequate housing, we will continue to see homelessness rise. rents/mortgages for basic, entry level properties should be no more than 25% of income, with govt protection for periods of unemployment. send property profiteers to prison, see the market shift magically.

    62. Re:How is this even... by russotto · · Score: 1

      the truth of the matter is that without extensive government assistance, most of these individuals will never see a place they can call their own due to numerous social and political issues of inequality they are so divorced from affecting.

      Has damn little to do with "social and political issues of inequality" and a whole lot due to drugs, alcohol, and insan..excuse me, "serious mental illness". Usually more than one of the three.

      The family of the student in this story are exceptions (though there's probably quite a few like them around in this economy), but they're not among your "most", and they're not what people think of when they hear about homeless people.

    63. Re:How is this even... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      And, as usual, linked to substance abuse.

    64. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't have time for your drivel. We're too busy overvaluing risky ventures and selling the futures off to unwitting retirement funds.

    65. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The promise of America was never security. It was always, come here, maybe get killed, maybe make a killing. It sucks for those that were born into it and don't have the guts. We should have a "return to the motherland" program to combine with a "welcome productive immigrants" policy.

      Then again, that might produce too much of an imbalance. Nevermind that the "welcome productive immigrants" policy has sort of broken down in recent years. We send too many college educated people back when they would prefer to stay. We fail at policing out a lot of unprductive people who should not be allowed in.

    66. Re:How is this even... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Oh, we'll just fix that. We'll pass a law that you can't be homeless. It worked to "solve" our healthcare problem.

      What do you mean what's wrong with us? What's wrong with you? Why are you allowing Americans to be homeless? Because I happen to live within a few thousand miles of someone I have to work 20 hours a week to support them, but you who might also be the same distance from them are free to just make pointless comments about "somebody oughta do something"? How...odd.

    67. Re:How is this even... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's necessary, you make it sound like most homeless are doing it as a lifestyle choice. While there's no reason to force it on them, frostbite sucks and most of them would be in shelters if there were enough space.

      As for vacant dwellings, we really don't have many of those. And the ones we do were condemned with good reason. The shelters themselves don't necessarily need to be permanent, plywood walls and a basic roof would do wonders.

    68. Re:How is this even... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Most Western nations are tiny and have vastly different demographics than the US. Nice try though.

    69. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Perhaps in the past. But again, if you'd actually read the quoted citations (let alone the article), it was an auto accident and resulting loss of work / medical bills that made them homeless this time around.

      Is it that important to you to assign blame to the victims that you'll completely and willfully ignore the facts of the matter?

      --
      Check your premises.
    70. Re:How is this even... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Do you know when the last time a homeless person who wasn't mentally insane died because they literally couldn't find food or shelter?

      I guess it might happen, but I seriously doubt it. Our homeless are mostly fine, really it's just a bunch of pretentious dickweeds from tiny, sheltered European countries who like to guffaw at how badly they think we run things.

      Whatever, fuckers. I'll be watching on CNN and laughing when you're rioting in the streets over the latest round of austerity cuts implemented because your shitty little Socialist Utopias don't work.

    71. Re:How is this even... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 0

      I somewhat agree. Frankly, however, I'd much rather have them in charge than the fucking multitudes of rabble.

      With the rabble in charge, I will work 25 hours a week for the government and 15 for myself so that some fucking wastrel can sit in her house and spit out 10 kids she receives $300 a month each for.

      With the new aristocracy in charge I can be a low level functionary working 15 hours a week for the government and the fucking wastrel can get $100 a month.

      I'll take..option 1, kthx.

    72. Re:How is this even... by Jiro · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No one wants to see women and children on the street and there really isn't any excuse for it.

      Fortunately nobody cares about men on the street. Maybe that's why over 3/4 of homeless are men.

    73. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you'll give them food, but not money.

      I call bullshit. You give them nothing, you parsimonius, sanctimonious, fucking douchebag.

    74. Re:How is this even... by narcc · · Score: 1

      USA has very much very loving people, and USA is #1 in the list of countries what has strongest religion believe to God.

      This doesn't make much sense. In the US, if you're religious, odds are that you're Christian. I've found that the more devout a Christian in the US is, the more likely they are to be bigoted and hateful and hold the least compassionate political beliefs.

    75. Re:How is this even... by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Awright, I was looking for something like this to answer...

      I'll tell you how it's America. Its America 'cuz we, the boneheaded, think it is all so grand to "tax somebody else, not me" and get all wild about taxing the rich, taxing industry, and... causing the situations we see here.

      How's that? Well, if you study what the Fair Tax researchers have found, you'll find that 22% of the price of everything made in America, approximately, is composed of costs inflicted on industry by the income taxes. That is a cumulative number of the costs of the 2nd-highest corporate income tax in the world, the payroll taxes of the workers that make their labor more expensive, the individual income taxes of the workers that make their labor more expensive, capital gains taxes that make investment money more scarce for industry, etc. etc.

      We've closed something like 40,000 factories between 2001 and 2009, and it's been going on for decades. While other countries have wised up and lowered their business taxes, we have kept ours in the stratosphere. As a result, our exports are too expensive, our domestic products are too expensive, and people all over the world have agreed to buy anything but American for the most part.

      Want to fix it? Pass the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax replaces the corrosive income tax with a consumption tax, and uses a prebate mechanism to make it a true progressive tax, unlike the income taxes that, via the payroll taxes of Social Security and Medicare, combined with that 22% of the price of American goods that, when bought by a poor person, constitute a tax on that poor person of up to 37.3% (15.3% SS/Medicare + 22% embedded corporate income taxes.) of the 1st dollar he make all the way thru his entire paycheck. Due to the prebate, poor people never pay a penny of Fair Tax.

      The Fair Tax would additionally cause an economic boom of biblical proportions in the US, with Fair Tax researchers predicting a 3% unemployment rate within 2 years after passage. We could get most of these homeless people good jobs, so they would not be homeless any more. But the more we delay, the more misery there will be. We have to do something, quick, and the Fair Tax is the most promising thing we could do.

    76. Re:How is this even... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, most countries have a lot less natural resources and a lot less space for people to live in. Each state is comparable to many 1st world nations, why can't they provide comparable social safety nets?

      Or did you mean we have way more wingnuts than they do? I'll admit that's a bit of a handicap.

    77. Re:How is this even... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I don't care how they came to be in the situation, it doesn't matter how that happened, what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      What the heck do you think a homeless shelter IS?

      They provide housing and virtually all jurisdictions have some form of job service functions which helps people find work. There ARE programs out there to help people when they have a stroke of bad luck, but realistically it isn't going to be like staying at the Ritz.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    78. Re:How is this even... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      If someone cannot afford a home, and someone else providing one for them is unacceptable (those shelters you deride), what do you propose instead?

    79. Re:How is this even... by hort_wort · · Score: 1

      Capitalism can mimic [evolution], but it's not an 'ideal' by any stretch of the imagination.

      Ohhhhh I'm not saying it's an ideal, not at all! It could be tweaked over the years though, and probably will be as overpopulation becomes more of an issue and resources are in even more demand.

      I thank you for your well-worded response, but I think you're giving humanity much more credit than it deserves.

    80. Re:How is this even... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Hunger is everywhere. Vaccinatable childhood diseases are everywhere.

      There will always, in every single culture now, past, and to come, be hungry, homeless, violent, abused, and / or unvaccinated people on the fringes. You can push for fixes to these things, but you will never completely suceed, which means you absolutely must take into account what the societal costs will be for trying to fix one more case of unvaccinated child.

      Keep in mind that there are limited resources and that you cannot throw infinite money, time, and effort at each one of those, and that generally there are much bigger problems to deal with than trying to make sure theres yet another homeless shelter on X street.

      That said, I do not know exactly what the situation is in each city; there are likely places where another shelter is in dire need. But my point is that there are also likely places where another shelter would provide minimal benefit for a disproportionate cost, and if you look at everything through the lens of "but its doing SOMETHING", then you will end up wasting what resources you have.

      how about at least trying in the slightest to offer a few valid ideas on why homelessness can't be eradication entirely?

      How about these:
      A) Some people legitimately do not want to settle down. There are some people (arguably mentally unstable) who would prefer to be on the streets. This isnt arguable, as I know of such cases.
      B) Some people have mental issues which make functioning in society nigh upon impossible. You can have all the shelters and loan / mortgage programs and tax benefits and pro-bono advisors you want, some people simply are unable to take advantage of it.
      C) Some people are neither unstable nor do they desire homelessness, but are unwilling to ask for help. I am not aware of a safe / right way to force help upon someone who will not receive it.

      Those 3 at a minimum ensure you will never succeed 100%. Fight homelessness, be compassionate, but dont lose perspective. I have in the past (and should more often) taken homeless people out to lunch; it is a real good, and should be encouraged by society, but do not think for a minute that having "enough money" would be able to fix this problem.

    81. Re:How is this even... by hort_wort · · Score: 1

      Statistically, a child born to a family that earned money is more likely to also be successful -- it's in their genes.

      That is the biggest I have ever seen. You say 'statistically' so I assume you have some numbers?

      Consider a tribe of cavemen with the earliest start of a trade economy. The best hunter of the tribe sells his catches to the tribe's stores. There is another member of the tribe who tries to be a hunter, but he has terrible vision. He doesn't get any money. Both hunters have a child.

      Now winter comes along. The good hunter has more money and can buy food for his child. The bad hunter with the bad eyesight can't afford to feed his child, so the kid is malnourished and has stunted growth. The child of the good hunter has good vision and grew up well. He hunts well. The child with the bad vision wouldn't be able to hunt for crap anyway, so the tribe gets more benefit from the one who was well fed.

      To get to modern day, replace the job and impediment with something else. I inherited a bad immune system from my folks, it screwed me over at my job regardless of financial conditions.

      So yeah, I don't have a lot of hard numbers for you. I'm making the argument of "more likely than not" rather than "by this much".

    82. Re:How is this even... by c6gunner · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Their situation is the result of a pattern of behavior, and a type of lifestyle. Other people would not end up destitute due to an accident; intelligent, responsible people have contingencies to mitigate disasters. You're creating an artificial split between "in the past" and "this time", when the two are intrinsically linked.

    83. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      So - the six to seven years that they held on to the house was meaningless? Remember, they lost it due to a traffic accident.

      Or, to put it another way - you don't think that people can change, can grow, can adapt and overcome their weaknesses?

      That there is no redemption possible; that all is predestined?

      --
      Check your premises.
    84. Re:How is this even... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      So - the six to seven years that they held on to the house was meaningless? Remember, they lost it due to a traffic accident.

      They didn't hold on to a house - they were renting.

      Or, to put it another way - you don't think that people can change, can grow, can adapt and overcome their weaknesses?

      It's rare, but it does happen on occasion.

      That there is no redemption possible; that all is predestined?

      .....

      Wait ... let me get this straight .... you believe that curb-stomping puppies cures cancer?

    85. Re:How is this even... by cavePrisoner · · Score: 2

      And you have whole families, school children, living in homeless shelters.

      The ones in shelters are lucky. I don't know numbers, but a great deal of our homeless don't even have that because their local governments either don't see it as a priority or don't have the means to provide homeless shelters. That is why tent cities have sprung up in many parts of the country.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/lakewood-new-jersey-homeless-tent-city-2011-9?op=1

    86. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      They held together a stable life for six to seven years. True, they didn't own - but they did hold together a home. Maybe not to your standards of ownership - but obviously they were doing something right to get that far. And obviously, if they held on to a house for six to seven years, something changed in the pattern behavour.

      Not sure what you mean about curb stomping puppies. But to be clear about what I meant - it seems that you are arguing that the parents cannot change, that they have in the past proven themselves worthless, and as such, can never have worth. That no matter what they do, they are without merit or value.

      Which I find extremely ironic, as you seem to be a proponent of social Darwinism.

      --
      Check your premises.
    87. Re:How is this even... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Not sure what you mean about curb stomping puppies.

      It was a sarcastic/humorous shot at your tendency to pretend that I'm saying things which you've apparently pulled out of your ass. You can imagine a "whooosh" sound at this point, if you'd like.

      Suffice it to say that I do not recognize any of my opinions, let alone any argument I may have made recently, in the words and labels which you're attributing to me. So I'll bow out now, and give you and your strawmen some privacy.

    88. Re:How is this even... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      You ever LOOK at the amount of money spent to support "art" in the USA? Current budget for the NEA alone is 154 million dollars. You have any idea how many people that could feed and/or house and/or provide basic medical care and/or meds for?

      In any case, if you look back a few posts in this thread, you'll see I did not neglect the military aspect, I was simply responding to someone who felt that the poor needed the arts, or something along those lines.

      So let us squabble. ;o)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    89. Re:How is this even... by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      Uh, you realize that even in communist Russia, where it was a crime to be homeless, and housing was provided for free, there were still homeless people? Ending homelessness is not as easy as you think at first.

      Which might be a fine point of discussion, up until the point where people use the notion of not absolutely ending homelessness as an excuse not to dedicate time and effort (not necessarily money) to reducing homelessness.

      You might not be able to save everybody, but are you saving everyone that you reasonably could? By and large, we aren't.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    90. Re:How is this even... by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      America (I'm addressing you as a whole).

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      Capitalism is an economic equivalent to Darwin's survival of the fittest. There are merits to this, despite the corruption.

      Darwin actually never said anything about "survival of the fittest." That language was applied in interpretation later on. (Erroneously, actually. It tends to miss the point.)

      Since you're likening inherited wealth to reproduction, let's call the family inheritance what it would be -- inbreeding. The long-term consequences of inbreeding have certainly been documented.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    91. Re:How is this even... by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      Wait, you're complaining because we gave homeless people a place to live? What do you want, for them to live in Trump Tower and be fed caviar? Come on, what people need is enough to get back on their own two feet when life knocks them down. They don't need to have the world given to them.

      I like how you have two settings on this -- no place to live vs. Trump Tower. Bullshit. No one's asking for these people to have the world given to them -- not the GP, anyway -- but that's how it's been framed all these years, because if it became more mainstream exactly how those people are getting blocked from getting enough to get on their own two feet, Occupy would've happened decades ago, to say the very least.

      It is, indeed, very expensive to be poor.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    92. Re:How is this even... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      With opportunity to succeed comes opportunity to fail.

      Oddly enough, the Scandinavian countries are bristling with new business ventures and entrepreneurs. Skype is probably the most recent highly-successful venture.

      Why? Because our social safety nets gives you the opportunity to succeed, while still catching you if you should fail. This encourages people to try out new ideas instead of being deadly afraid of what should happen if they fail.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    93. Re:How is this even... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      In Denmark, the definition goes roughly like this:

      A homeless person is a person who lives in a deficient housing situation, for example in an illegal encampment, a condemned building or a severely overcrowded building (mostly illegally).
      It also includes people living in unsafe conditions, for instance living under threat of eviction or under a bankrupt landlord, or in a violent home.
      Furthermore, it includes people without a home, ie. currently sleeping under temporary conditions in an institution, a shelter or similar.
      Lastly, it includes people with no roof over their head, ie. living without any sort of shelter or housing, sleeping on the street.

      So you see, our definition of being homeless is pretty well-defined, you have to be in some real shit to count as homeless.

      You have around 3.5 million homeless people in the US. In a population of ~300 million, that's about 1.7%.

      Denmark has around 8.000 homeless people. In a population of ~6 million, that's about 0.14%. Of those, only 200 or so actually sleep in the streets.

      You have more than ten times as many homeless people compared to your population as the average European/Scandinavian social democracy-based "socialist hellhole".

      Wealthiest nation on Earth, sure. But at what cost?

      --
      Eat the rich.
    94. Re:How is this even... by dogganos · · Score: 1

      Very well said my friend... That's exactly what I thought when I read the news. I hate that many people will use this news as an alibi to say that social welfare is useless, since no good talent is not eventually lost...

    95. Re:How is this even... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 4, Informative

      You have around 3.5 million homeless people in the US. In a population of ~300 million, that's about 1.7%.

      Europe has around 3 million homeless people. In a combined European population of ~730 million, that's about 0.4%. That includes Eastern Europe and formerly Soviet bloc countries, most of which are still struggling with massive corruption. In Scandinavia and Northern Europe in general, the number is around 0.15%.

      You have more than four times as many homeless people compared to your population as the average European/Scandinavian social democracy-based "socialist hellhole" and the countries who were mercifully untouched by the "fascism with a communist face" of the Eastern bloc have less than a tenth the amount of homeless people that you do.

      Social democracy (or "socialism" as you yanks erroneously call it) works.

      I'll be watching when your so-called "greatest nation on Earth" implodes on itself. Hopefully, you'll build something sensible out of the ashes.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    96. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're French and homeless, it means it's a choice or you have mental health problems.

      Most of our homeless people are in these 3 categories :
      - rebelious youth who wants to experiment an alternative lifestyle
      - foreigners that make money out of it (for themselves or "pimps")
      - crazy algoholic / drugged guys that can't remain in the free housing the state offers them

    97. Re:How is this even... by chilvence · · Score: 1

      I would live in a van happily, or a boat, but a car would be a stretch.

      I'd be more worried about needing an address for some things, and the actual stigma itself, than not having brick walls around me. I've met a few sailors that live this way, and all of them were very happy well adjusted people.

      Society seems to think it has a right to view you as a non-entity if you don't have a home, and then makes sure the barrier to entry is as high as it can get away with. If somebody has lost their hose, what the fuck gives society the right to punish them even more?

      The key thing is everyone needs somewhere to retreat to sleep and keep warm. For most people that is a house or flat, but the bare minimum is just food, a bed, and if you are at an extreme latitude, some heat source - surely something that is very easy to provide, so what is the problem?

      Well, nobody seems to have a right to build their own house how they please, and the only way to afford one is a lifelong commitment to a miserable but stable job. Who in their right mind can stand the thought of that?

      Me, I'll keep saving up to buy a boat... it gives me a lot more confidence in my future than a pension.

    98. Re:How is this even... by chilvence · · Score: 1

      I suppose you are referring to a slum, but whichever way you look at it, it is still a roof over your head. You might not be able to imagine yourself there, but take it away and you'd be tripping over homeless people every three steps. And for what, because the thought of a medieval style village in modern times offends you?

      For the sake of argument, London used to be a festering slum whose streets were lined with sewage and animal entrails, but now it is the most expensive place to live in the UK!

    99. Re:How is this even... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      japan != western nation.

    100. Re:How is this even... by DigiTechGuy · · Score: 1

      I struggle to get by and am on the verge of being homeless myself... Thanks to the poor decision to go to college. I have a steady job and make well over the median wage. My home is very modest, I don't own nice things. I have no money to give to homeless people, though I have on occasion given food to homeless people. It would be wrong of me to demand others give their money to homeless people, and outright illegal, a violation of their rights, to take it from them and redistribute it... Just as it is illegal, unconstitutional, for the government to do so with my money and other people's money.

    101. Re:How is this even... by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Because it never, ever, stops at "Rudimentary Shelter".

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    102. Re:How is this even... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      an excuse not to dedicate time and effort (not necessarily money) to reducing homelessness.

      OK, if that is something you care about, go out and help homeless people. I do.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    103. Re:How is this even... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Compare that to a total cost of over a trillion dollars (including interest on military incurred debt) for the military. That's 7000 times the budget on the arts.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

      --
      Check your premises.
    104. Re:How is this even... by dissy · · Score: 1

      Bitsy Boffin (I'm addressing you personally)

      How is it that you allow young people, let alone whole families, to be homeless, to live in "shelters".

      What do YOU do to stop it?

      Which country are you in, and what does that country do to stop it?

      WTF is wrong with you people?!

      Same thing as is wrong with you. I don't see you helping this girl either.

      what matters is resolving it, providing the social, housing, and financial support to ensure that every body can call somewhere home.

      If I gave away ALL of my measly income (Which is barely keeping ME in a cheap rented place), not only would I then become homeless, but then who would help me?
      Should I rely on the housing you personally will provide for me?
      Judging by the housing you have provided to this girl and her family, I am guessing I wouldn't be too well sheltered at all.

      You want to blame the US government? Fine. You want to blame US corporations? Fine there too.
      But where the fuck do you get off blaming me personally when I barely have the means to make ends meet.

      I have had to ask my neighbor to use their wifi password, just to remain on the internet.
      I have no cable, no phone, am a month behind on my electric, haven't bought a new computer in so many years I can't even remember.
      Yet you have the gall to blame me personally?!

      I seriously doubt you have donated enough of your income to help even one person, let alone one family, to get off the street for more than a month.
      Which pretty much makes this your fault. (That's what happens when you fling blame around without knowing what you are talking about)

      Fucking hypocrite.

    105. Re:How is this even... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      So I'll bow out now, and give you and your strawmen some privacy.

      Sounds a little ... painful.

      BTW, the current fortune is rather OT to the overall topic: "Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run. -- Mark Twain"

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    106. Re:How is this even... by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      How was this communist troll ever modded up? Typical commie rhetoric with zero proof of any statements made. This post is exactly an example of "thought destroying noise".

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    107. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm down with that bet. What country are you from? Let's see who goes down in flames first.

      Also, I see your pathetic attempt at sophistry for what it is. You basically made an obviously true statement as if that was the root cause. "Well, durr, you have more homeless because you have a higher percentage of homeless, durr!". Yeah, thanks there Captain Tautology.

      Our demographics are different. We have an open border with a third world country, which has its own open borders with a _bunch_ of South/Central American third world countries. We created an institutionally poor minority because some idiots thought they would enslave a race of people a few hundred years ago.

      The further lie to your words is this made up 3.5 million homeless number, you fucking liar. We have as many as 3.5 million people who are homeless at some point during a year. We have a _chronic_ homeless population of somewhere around 110-130k.

      Finally, the definition of homeless is shifty. The only meaningful definition is someone who literally has no food or shelter. That number is tiny in the US.

      In short you're full of shit and your arguments hold no water.

    108. Re:How is this even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is bullshit.

      I've had families who were forced to live in tents with their small children for weeks, calling all the shelters in the area daily, until they were finally able to get a space in the family shelter I volunteered at. We operated on one hell of a shoestring budget and could not provide shelter to nearly as many families as needed our help. The situation is even worse when emergency winter family shelters (like ours) are closed for the year. Spring comes, the funding dries up, and people get turned out onto the street.

      The situation is comparable if not worse across the spectrum of homeless homeless shelters. I've worked in them and I've volunteered in them and it sucks everywhere. We never have enough money, or enough space, or enough places to send clients to help them transition into supporting themselves.

      And federal funding? You mean like public housing authorities? That's one hell of a cute joke, dear. In big cities the waiting list (if you're lucky enough to be able to get on it- most are closed except for a few days a year or closed indefinitely now) for a housing choice voucher or even public housingwill be at least a couple years, if not over a decade. The "best" I've seen is in the range of a year to two for public housing if you qualify for one of the "top of the list" exceptions (disabled, victim of DV, displaced by a disaster.)

      And welfare? Hahaha, cute joke. Try renting an apartment with the $368 a month a family of 3 with no income that's homeless will get via TANF. Lucky enough to have a family of 5? You can rent an apartment and pay all your bills with the $475 a month you'll get.

      The current situation for homeless people in the US sucks. Those who are fortunate enough to get any service at all get spotty service that relies on them being lucky enough to get in and the organization serving them being lucky enough to have the funds and the space for them today.

      Yes, some people "choose" to be homeless (likely those with untreated mental illnesses.) But many homeless people and families are being fucked over by a system with far more need than capacity.

    109. Re:How is this even... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      There's no need to get personal, but let's have a look at what you're saying, disregarding the insults.

      First off, I'm from Denmark. We've been able to weather the crisis relatively well due to our fundamentally well-oiled system of social democracy. We are pulling ourselves out of the depression again in cooperation with our Scandinavian and Northern European neighbors. Our economy is stable, thanks to this.

      Of course your demographics are different, you have a small problem with illegal immigration and the severely disadvantaged lower class your country created because they thought slaves were cool. The latter is absolutely not valid as any kind of excuse. Your country fucked them over, your country should therefore take care of them and help them instead of supporting the institutionalized racism that continues to this day.

      But you still have over ten times the amount of homeless per 1000 citizens compared to most other countries in the western world. I don't care how you count it, whether you count the number of people who are homeless at some point of the year or if you count the number of chronic homeless, that's still a huge amount of your population that has been screwed over by the system.

      Even if you only count the chronically homeless, the ones who literally have no food or shelter that's about 0.035% of your population, going by your 110K figure. Here, it's 0.003% (200 out of 6 million). It's still a factor of ten!

      --
      Eat the rich.
    110. Re:How is this even... by Wulfrunner · · Score: 1

      "...you have made a most admirable panegyric upon your country; you have clearly proved, that ignorance, idleness, and vice, are the proper ingredients for qualifying a legislator; that laws are best explained, interpreted, and applied, by those whose interest and abilities lie in perverting, confounding, and eluding them. I observe among you some lines of an institution, which, in its original, might have been tolerable, but these half erased, and the rest wholly blurred and blotted by corruptions. It does not appear, from all you have said, how any one perfection is required towards the procurement of any one station among you; much less, that men are ennobled on account of their virtue; that priests are advanced for their piety or learning; soldiers, for their conduct or valour; judges, for their integrity; senators, for the love of their country; or counsellors for their wisdom... I cannot but conclude the bulk of your natives to be the most pernicious race of little odious vermin that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the earth."

      From Gulliver's Travels, by Jonathan Swift (1726).

    111. Re:How is this even... by Wulfrunner · · Score: 1

      They didn't hold on to a house - they were renting.

      Unless you paid cash for your house, you're renting it from the bank.

  7. Cutest smile ever. by Pezbian · · Score: 2

    She seriously does have the cutest smile. The grin she was wearing in the photo with the article about this at KSL was the highlight of my day. Smart and photogenic is a good combo. She will go far.

    --
    In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
    1. Re:Cutest smile ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because looks are an indicator of future success.

      asshole

  8. I hope Intel avoids the obvious feel-good choice by starmonkey · · Score: 2

    She's a semifinalist. I hope Intel's judgement of her research isn't affect by the press coverage. It would suck for someone else's superior research to get shafted because he wasn't lucky enough to be appealing as a human-interest story.

  9. Expected.. by Codeyman · · Score: 2

    On a similar vien, this is why you see more hardworking asian students (or first generation students who are forced to work hard by their parents)!? Once you are privy to poverty (even if you are not poor yourself) and have seen a better life out there.. you'll give your life to hang on to it.

  10. Rely on a homeless shelter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The linked article kind of doesn't mention that her family was in the shelter for all of a week earlier this month. Still a nice accomplishment, but none of the work she did was done while she was in the shelter.

    1. Re:Rely on a homeless shelter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The linked article kind of doesn't mention that her family was in the shelter for all of a week earlier this month. Still a nice accomplishment, but none of the work she did was done while she was in the shelter.

      Perhaps you shouldn't kind of make stuff up that is missing from the linked article, and you know, look up those facts instead.

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2012/01/homeless-teen-could-win-100000-science-prize-and-new-future-for-family/

      The 17-year-old high school senior ...
      [snip]
      Garvey and her family have lived in shelters and hotels since she was a little girl. Seven years ago, they were able to move into a house, but in February 2010, her parents were involved in a car accident. They were forced to leave.

      If you assume December of 2010, they have been in that shelter for a year.
      If you assume January of 2010, they have been in that shelter for two years.
      Either possibilities, and all that are in between, are greater than the 1 week number you pulled out of the dark.

      Unless you are new here, you should know better than to assume a single article that makes it to slashdot is authoritative on all the facts when there are plenty of stories about her out there right now each with their additional pieces of information.

  11. Re:I hope Intel avoids the obvious feel-good choic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    She's a semifinalist. I hope Intel's judgement of her research isn't affect by the press coverage. It would suck for someone else's superior research to get shafted because he wasn't lucky enough to be appealing as a human-interest story.

    Check out her pictures. I know when I was in a high school science fair, being attractive won out over superior research. I'm guessing it's still the same. Oh and my research project sucked. It was seeing other classmates with better projects lose to her smile that taught me a valuable lesson. Good PR is usually trumps good science.

  12. A triumph for her... by forkfail · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... and an abysmal failure by our society.

    --
    Check your premises.
    1. Re:A triumph for her... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      ...How? Her family lost their home. They were supported (by that abysmally failing society...) for a short time until they found another.

      Pretty much working exactly as it should.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    2. Re:A triumph for her... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      No no no. You don't understand. The word "homeless" means her family was living in a ditch on the verge of death. That's what we do in America, haven't you heard of the thousands of homeless people who die because they couldn't find food or shelter each year?

      It did work exactly as it should. Probably 40% of the people using this thread to bash america are from other countries, but I bet 60% of them are fucking Americans brainwashed into feeling guilty for what they have.

      Fuck that. It's abject weakness. I'm glad a live an easy life and I work hard for it. I'm lucky to have it. This is a great story showing how you can succeed in this country if you try. When poor people are dying in the streets than I'll agree we have a problem.

      Right now things are working about right. You have a cost to being poor and not trying your hardest to get out of poverty, and that cost is being "homeless". But you're not going to die - you'll have food and shelter. That's why America and China and other nations that value work will continue to dominate the world economy while other countries will continue to fade into obscurity.

    3. Re:A triumph for her... by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      ...How? Her family lost their home. They were supported (by that abysmally failing society...) for a short time until they found another.

      Pretty much working exactly as it should.

      Maybe keeping people in their homes would be a good way to start. Homeless shelters are a failsafe, a safety net. What you're saying would be the same as telling the tightrope walker not to worry about the performance, but just to dive off the the cable as soon as they got on it.

      Nice proximate, quarantinable safety net, but solving the ultimate problems (like, say, medically induced bankruptcies and eventual foreclosures) might be a more effective role for the society.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    4. Re:A triumph for her... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The depth of your delusion is astounding.

      Poor people are dying in the streets, because the "American Dream" fucked them over, because they were unlucky and because they couldn't afford health insurance.

      Face it, the main reason you have an easy life is because you got lucky. It hurts to admit that it wasn't 100% down to hard work, but that's the hard truth.

      There is not nearly enough food and shelter for everyone who needs it, and the right-wingers in your country are trying to cut it back even more. They're systematically worsening the living conditions of the majority, in order to sweeten the life of the wealthy elite even further. It's never been about "supporting the job creators", it has always been about "how can I make sure the majority of wealth created in this country continues to flow into my pockets?".

      Wake up, your "nation that values work" is systematically grinding you down with 40-50-60 hour work weeks and hardly any vacation at all, for pittance pay. The US is one of the worst countries in the western world rated by ability of people to break free of their social station (rated by the relative income difference between parents and their children).

      It's time for a new New Deal. It's time for "trickle-up" economics.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    5. Re:A triumph for her... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      You fucking liar. Please, find me some statistics on people who died from hunger or exposure to the elements because they didn't have access to one or the other. I'm all ears.

      Medical care is a different issue, though you'd be hard pressed to find many of those either. I'm actually for a high deductible type plan where you get universal coverage no matter what and pay a sliding (starting at 0) deductible.

      I only hope you're willing to work an extra 15 hours a week for the government (to pay taxes) so that some 70 year old fat asshole with a heart condition and not a penny to his name can cost us $800k in medical expenses for a heart transplant.

    6. Re:A triumph for her... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      http://www.wifr.com/news/headlines/Homeless_Deaths_in_the_Stateline_136027648.html
      http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Dozens-Gather-To-Remember-Homeless-Deaths-136039473.html
      http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/dyingwithoutdignity/dyingwithoutdignity.pdf
      This one has a positive tone, at least something is being done:
      http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/27/local/me-skidrow-deaths27

      Obviously, the absolute numbers are not huge, but most or all of these deaths could have been prevented through better shelter and soup kitchen offers rather then the bare minimum that is currently on offer. Initiatives such as letting homeless people help and give a hand in the soup kitchens could help them feel some self-worth again, which leads to motivation to at least try and do something about their current station in life.

      I work a full 37 hour work week including the occasional paid overtime. I don't consider any of those hours to be "working for the government", I have no idea how that silly simplification has taken root with you guys.

      You know what? I don't mind that 70-year old fat asshole getting a new heart. I sure don't mind children getting the urgent medical care they need, either. Nor do I mind anyone, no matter their station in life, viewpoints, personal wealth, race, creed or color, getting the medical help they need. Who are you to put different amounts of worth on different people's heads?

      Please note that your current insurance-based privatized health care system is massively more expensive than the public health care systems of the countries you usually compare yourselves to. They're getting better health care for less:
      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/etc/graphs.html

      I pay my taxes gladly. With them, I buy civilization.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    7. Re:A triumph for her... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      I didn't read enough in depth to know the case here - but "keeping people in their homes" is only a good goal for people who bought homes they could afford in the first place. Heaps of foreclosures in my area are a direct result of variable rate or interest only loans that the purchasers had no business getting into in the first place. Sure, some folks got unlucky and lost their jobs. Some got unlucky and had unexpected medical expenses. Most simply saw a rising market and assumed it would keep going forever - bought the house knowing that staying in that home was dependent on the prices of real estate rising.

      If you bought a home you couldn't afford in the first place, I do not want society to pick up the slack to keep you there. I want you to downgrade to something more in line with your earnings. I know full well that downgrading is extraordinarily difficult with the current market - if you're already upside down and can't afford it you don't have much choice but to foreclose or short sell.

      And who knows, maybe these guys made a heroic performance before falling to the safety net and still couldn't quite pull it off. Bad things happen sometimes.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    8. Re:A triumph for her... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      I don't think anybody likes how health care ended up in the States. We went from an overpriced system with too many middle men to a mandatory overpriced system with too many middle men. It's a combination of the worst of public and private systems.

      Back off topic though... American's have been partaking in "trickle-up" economics for the last thirty years. Notice the collapse of small business and the concentration of all of our purchasing at the Targets and Wal Marts? To save that extra couple bucks we're happily sending our money to the big guys knowing *full well* that the people in their employ can't earn a decent wage. You want to spark off a new deal? Take that money to a local store to buy your clothes. Get that lawnmower repaired instead of tossing it and buying a new one from the Lawnmower Depot. We'll happily spend hours price shopping to save that extra two dollars, put ten minutes of that toward seeing where the rest of the money you would have spent ends up going.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    9. Re:A triumph for her... by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I mean by "trickle-up economics".

      It's the complete opposite of trickle-down economics, where the richest are given all the benefits in the hope that they will trickle down to the lower rungs of society. History has shown that this does not work.

      Instead, I want a trickle-up society, where the lowest rungs are helped out and given enough purchase power that they can create a greater demand for products and services. This will trickle up into the rest of society and benefit everyone.

      I agree 100% with you that instead of focusing blindly on prices, people should buy quality products that are made to be serviced and repaired for many years. They represent a larger investment, but will earn that back in savings in the long run. I want products built up to a quality, not down to a price.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  13. Re:I hope Intel avoids the obvious feel-good choic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think the obvious choice would be for Intel to toss her an education, no matter how things play out. They almost certainly have a philanthropic element to their accounting, so funding a beautiful homeless poster child's education can only yield positive PR. I mean, it's gotta be better than turning her away, only to have the press find her as a smack-whore doing some Intel exec, two years from now. Homeless women have very few options.

  14. Re:She has a brighter future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My first thought as well. Women's best path if they look at least as good as her is to learn the ways of being sweet to and pleasuring male clients, and exploiting their best years (starting at her age) as escorts. Marry a sucker around 30, maybe sooner if she's hooked a good prospect, all the while saving for her future. Have a kid, divorce the guy, collect alimony.

    This "talent contest" is cute, and a nice way to get PR for Intel. It, of course, works for those who win the contest, but it suffers from a major problem of scope in terms of being something to aspire to.

    That problem is the superstar mentality. It's seen in sports, and it's being brought into all other areas as well. The slightest hint of musical talent? Maybe your son will be the next Curtis Jackson! Your son tops the scoreboards of a public server in Quake? If Jonathan Wendel can brand himself into a success, why can't your little Jimmy?

    The problem, though obvious and following directly from material in the first day of Econ 101, must still be explicitly spelled out and repeated again and again: expected value. Either you take the +EV move and build a comfortable life, or you roll the dice. Ever the worse for instilling the rationality of the choice, too, if that 1 in 10,000 chance actually pays off, because, behold, there the camera is: focused on the winner, and not the 9999 Walmart employees.

  15. Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Samantha deserves to get the credit for not letting distractions others have created around her from stopping her desire to forge ahead.

    That is the American spirit alive and well in the U.S. It is the spirit that entrepreneurs must have to try and try again, as not all efforts succeed.

    Being homeless is so easy to have happen if one or two key earning parents get laid off and can't downsize quickly enough in a major downturn. It is not possible for everyone to come out whole. It is just the enforced position you sometimes get thrown into when economic events flip you upside down.

    1. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by ghn · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Canadian speaking here.. An entire homeless family is not something that should be considered "normal" or a consequence of some unfortunate chain of event that we just have to accept. Our society and economy, laws and culture are not that different from the US on most issues, but when I hear about homeless children and families in USA, that's where I truly grasp how vastly different our countries are.

    2. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Here's the best description of the American Dream I've ever heard:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

      --
      Check your premises.
    3. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      So what happens in Canada if you lose your job and can't meet the mortgage and bills out of control? You just show up at some agency and say "I need a home please" and you get one? No paperwork? No proof of poverty? Your bills are cancelled? You run out of council flats and new ones are built overnight to handle the current economic crisis? You can live close to economic centers where you are hunting for a job instead of in a decaying urban core?

    4. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Canadian speaking here .... Our society and economy, laws and culture are not that different from the US on most issues, but when I hear about homeless children and families in USA, that's where I truly grasp how vastly different our countries are.

      Canadian speaking here ... if you think we don't have homeless families of our own, you're delusional, eh? Where do you live? An igloo in Nunavut? Maybe there's no homelessness up there .. but there sure as hell is in the rest of the country.

      Look at her family - father a sporadic alcoholic with a crappy job. Mother injured and unable to work. And you wonder why they ended up temporarily homeless? Please. Show me a country where their situation would have been different.

    5. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      Well, for one thing we don't have the same kinds of 'decaying urban core' that you get in the US. The downtowns tend to be arts districts and active office buildings, not barren wastelands. And social assistance and subsidized rent kicks in quite fast. For the basic stuff it doesn't last long either, but in 90% of the cases it doesn't have to. A couple months to get something new together and off you go.

      I suspect that the biggest difference is lower debt and fewer sudden costs. People tend to rely on credit cards less for day-to-day use and things like unexpected healthcare costs don't really exist. So if someone (particularly if it's one member of a two-income household) loses their job chances are that belt tightening and some minimal saving and credit will get them through a few months without much trouble.

    6. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      You are living in some sort of La-La cloud.

      Homelessness is a real and growing problem in Canada. Children and young people are the fastest growing subgroup of the Canadian homeless population.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Canada

    7. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by sayfawa · · Score: 1

      I can't recall ever seeing a homeless child* in Toronto. I lived downtown there for over a decade. Never saw a homeless child in any other Canadian city either. Have you? Where? Honestly curious.

      *Obviously, I'm not counting squeegee kids, I mean young children, like under 10 years old.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    8. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Look at her family - father a sporadic alcoholic with a crappy job. Mother injured and unable to work. And you wonder why they ended up temporarily homeless? Please. Show me a country where their situation would have been different.

      Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, The Netherlands, just to mention a few.

      We take care of our people here, no matter how desperate their situations.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    9. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, The Netherlands, just to mention a few.

      Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit, just to name a few.

      We take care of our people here, no matter how desperate their situations.

      You sure do.

      You know when people start saying stuff that is ... not just stupid, but as utterly absurd as what you just said... I have to wonder ... are you really that stupid? Or do you think that everyone else is?

      This is like Ahmadinejad standing up in front of the audience at Columbia, and, with a straight face, telling them there are no homosexuals in Iran. "We don't have that phenomenon, like you do in the US. I don't know who told you we have". Your statements are on that level of absurdity. The immediate response of any rational individual is uncontrollable laughter. Why would you say something like that?

    10. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by c6gunner · · Score: 1
    11. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The difference is that our "homeless" aren't put on the fucking street because local government is too lazy to implement proper shelters and soup kitchens.

      Out of the 8000 homeless in Denmark (less than 0.14% of the population), about 200 live and sleep on the streets. Everyone else has at least a roof over their head and at least one hot meal per day.

      Compare to the US where your rate of homelessness is hovering around 1.7% (3.5 million) of your population.

      Read the reports you linked. The numbers are tiny. I never claimed our system was perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than what you lot have managed to put together.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    12. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The difference is that our "homeless" aren't put on the fucking street because local government is too lazy to implement proper shelters and soup kitchens.

      If you think that's "different", then you're even more ignorant than I thought. You're commenting on an article which talks about a girl whose family is living in a shelter, while suggesting the US doesn't implement shelters? Are you retarded?

      Compare to the US where your rate of homelessness is hovering around 1.7% (3.5 million) of your population.

      I'm not American, jackass. Learn to fucking read.

    13. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the American Dream. by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      If you think that's "different", then you're even more ignorant than I thought. You're commenting on an article which talks about a girl whose family is living in a shelter, while suggesting the US doesn't implement shelters? Are you retarded?

      This particular thread has turned to a more general discussion of homeless and homelessness in various countries. Are you unable to read?

      I'm not American, jackass. Learn to fucking read.

      Right. You're still a cunt, though.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  16. "Anyone can do it if they try, so why aren't you?" by identity0 · · Score: 0

    >Such a situation would stop many students from being able to focus on studying, let alone a research project, but Garvey has instead used her situation as motivation.

    Ah, I see we're going with the "X was successful despite his/her obstacles, so those with the same obstacle have no one but themselves to blame" angle.

    Welcome to America, where they celebrate people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps but never question why that was necessary in the first place.

  17. We're hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You are supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, the wealthiest, the nation that is spoken to exude opportunity and success from every pore.

    And many of my fellow Americans also insist that we're a Christian Nation too.

    We're are a people of denial and hypocrisy. There are going to be many many people who point to this girl and use it as justification for their opinion that the homeless are there because they just don't work hard enough and aren't worthy.

    This girl pulled herself by her bootstraps, after all; therefore all the poor just need to do with this little girl did.

  18. Re:Cue the Bullshit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sir are an idiot. Romney is a RINO candidate running on the republican platform. Not a libertarian. Also, most libertarians will tell you that big government and laziness are two of our big problems, but not our only problems.

    And to make sure this post actually has something to do with the topic at hand, and isn't just two anonymous assclowns talking politics; I like to believe that regardless of party no one likes the idea of families, or children having to live on the street. Any good person wants to find a solution to homelessness, we just disagree on route to take.

  19. I doubt it by mfwitten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I seriously doubt that crabs change the thickness of their shells in the presence of predators. Rather, I bet the predators change the kind of shell that is dominant in the population of crabs.

    It is likely the case that the predators are more easily able to eat the crabs with thinner shells, thereby increasing the percentage of crabs with thicker shells in the remaining population, and those remaining crabs with thicker shells produce offspring that also have the same kind of shells (or perhaps even thicker shells in a few cases).

    Evolution, folks. Variation. Selection.

    1. Re:I doubt it by mfwitten · · Score: 1

      Woops! s/crab/mussel/g

    2. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea... I also believe that predators test the thickness of the mussels shell before eating it... or not..

      Predators wouldn't have such pretty teeth if they wouldn't do that all the time...

    3. Re:I doubt it by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      However, we have a new hypothesis to explore:

      does homelessness impart an unnatural belief in lamarckism?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    4. Re:I doubt it by skine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I highly doubt that she would have gotten to the semifinals with research that essentially states "thinner shells are easier to crack."

      Unfortunately, I'm not finding any of the original data, so I cannot verify this.

    5. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's one explanation. What if another was that when the muscles are killed, they release a stress hormone into the water that to warn neighboring muscles to "harden up". Don't jump to hasty conclusions when sussing out how biological systems interact; they are full of surprises.

      Fairly deplorable situation, and many of the comments here express a bizarre pride in their lack of human empathy, which just goes to show that one doesn't have to be homeless to be mentally ill.

    6. Re:I doubt it by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      mmmm, soft shell crabs. Delicious! Soft shell mussels? - nah, I'll pass on those. Thanks

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    7. Re:I doubt it by artor3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll take her research over your gut feeling any day. If she's a finalist, then I certainly hope that she already controlled for such an effect.

    8. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crabs are the predators. The mussels are the prey. The mussels secrete calcium carbonate to form the shell. It's possible that secretion increases in predatory environments. Predators change their environments in many ways that can affect the homeostasis of indigenous organisms.

    9. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bet your life on it.

      I can say with a high degree of certainty that it isn't the predators that change the kind of shell that is dominant.

      Also note that in this case the crabs ARE the predators. The thickness of THEIR shells was not part of the analysis.

      Instead, the predators eat those with thin shells, destroying them, resulting in the thin shelled mussels not having many offspring.

      The interesting part is that the variable thickness of the shell of the mussels is the interesting part. Clearly a possible hypothesis is that there is a cost/benefit to mussel shell thickness which can be manipulated based on preditors within the ecosystem. That IS interesting and novel.

      The fact that selection is going on is, well, old news.

    10. Re:I doubt it by mfwitten · · Score: 1

      I like that explanation, too. Even a failed attempt to eat a mussel could indeed induce that very mussel to grow its shell thicker in case of a future attempt.

      What I didn't intially consider is the life cycle of the mussel in question; if it's too long to witness within at least a few years the change in shells by means of culling and reproduction, then I imagine my explanation does pretty much go directly out the window as the dominant reasoning behind this student's research.

      In any case, I hope you noticed my careful use of language to suggest that my comment isn't at all meant to be considered as a confident appraisal.

    11. Re:I doubt it by mfwitten · · Score: 2

      Yeah. In the video here, she states:

      I collected mussels from different elevations in the salt marsh, and I looked at how those predation rates affected mussels, and then I saw that mussels who were in lower elevations (where predation was the greatest), they exhibited heavier and denser, thicker shells, and then I took this idea and I introduced it into the lab setting, and I exposed the same mussels to invasive species ([crabs]). At the end of the 2 months, I saw that the mussels did exhibit heavier shells, just like those in the marsh.

      Because 2 months is a pretty short time, it does seem quite unlikely that my explanation is of any consequence. You are correct that it was silly of me to discount some other, more complex interaction.

    12. Re:I doubt it by Evil-G · · Score: 1

      Any thoughts on the thickness of the shells of mussels in response to the presence of crabs?

    13. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is the journalist did a sloopy write-up, and she was indeed confirming natural selection.

    14. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that your alternative reason is a possibility. However, you mixed up who is the predator - it clearly states in the summary that it is the mussels that have the shells with different thicknesses as the result of introducing predatory crabs.

    15. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure she thought of that before submitting her research, you fucking self-important douchebag.

    16. Re:I doubt it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not necessarily. If it was natural selection at work, then I would think the articles would be describing it differently. I think this may actually be some sort of resource expenditure algorithm in the mussels that is responding to the stress of predation by causing the mussels to expend more resources on shell thickness. I don't know what the communications mechanism is... possibly hormonal? Or maybe they get prodded by the crabs a lot and start to grow thicker shells in response to that. Anyway, your point about natural selection is interesting, but not necessarily a foregone conclusion.

  20. Re:Homelessness Doesn't Break the human Dream. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "American spirit?" It's every person's desire to change their station in life regardless of nationality. You're branding it with a blindly patriotic mindset.

  21. One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One word: leverage.

    Because we use debt financing for home ownership, the whole economy depends on rising home prices.

    The country was quite prosperous when newly stolen lands were given to settlers, and when anybody could use their own wits to build houses on cheap land without permit or inspection. Many of those "sloppy, unprofessional" homes still stand today. I doubt we will be able to say the same of our debt financed, permitted, inspected crackerboxes.

    But, I digress. Until we make the housing business more like the PC business (cheaper and better every year and yet the companies still prosper) we will continue to have this problem.

    I'm no Ron Paul fan, and those who call for monetary revolution frankly make me sick (ammor hoarders, blah, blah) but at the same time we really may need a hard reset to pull this off.

    Unfortunately, the idea that you have to buy the house all at once and go into debt for it is so deeply entrenched in people's minds that they can't grasp the obvious solution. I'm talking about non-leveraged REITs. It really is that simple. Banking as we know it would be radicly diffferent. REIT shares could float freely as a complementary currency. You'd simply save in shares and earn rent instead of interest. A drop in housing prices against some other complementary currency would be welcomed since it would allow you to accumulate shares more quickly and/or compound your rents more quickly. In fact, if most contracts and prices were in REIT shares it would be like regular inflation or deflation; constrained by the fact that you can't print houses or easily render land valueless.

    . Unlike contemporary REITs, leverage would be barred so bankruptcy of the REIT could only come through absolute disaster such as the burning of an entire city. Diversifying to a nationwide system solves that problem.

    1. Re:One word by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      "But, I digress. Until we make the housing business more like the PC business (cheaper and better every year and yet the companies still prosper) we will continue to have this problem."

      When you put it that way, the problem's simple. We need only shrink people in half every 18 months. Obviously it's only government intervention, like Fannie & Freddie, which is stopping our housing productivity from being as high as the deregulated semiconductor industry.

    2. Re:One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardeeharhar. The point is that if housing were purchased as a consumer item, lower prices would be welcomed. Instead it's purchased as an investment so there's no path to affordable housing. Whenever anybody says they are an advocate for affordable housing, they are tilting at windmills.

  22. Not anymore by IdolizingStewie · · Score: 2

    As several others have pointed out, the family is back in a home today. Hopefully they can stay in this one. In and out of shelters seems to be a trend for the family. http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/intel-semifinalist-samantha-garvey-gets-bay-shore-home-1.3449717?obref=obinsite

  23. Homeless? by DesScorp · · Score: 0

    WHY is her family homeless? You're telling me that New York State... one of the bluest in the country, with high taxes and lots of money going to social services... doesn't have public housing and rent assistance? This seems to be an ongoing situation with her family, not something just happened suddenly. We're not getting the whole story here.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:Homeless? by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Just about curiosity... Where I can find statics and documents about NYS budget and social service situation?

         

    2. Re:Homeless? by DesScorp · · Score: 1

      Just about curiosity... Where I can find statics and documents about NYS budget and social service situation?

       

      I don't know about the rest of social services, but NYS housing budget figures can be found here.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  24. Not according to the OECD by deanklear · · Score: 4, Informative
    http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=poverty

    40% of Median Income:
    =======================
    14.9% Mexico
    13.2% Israel
    11.3% United States
    11.2% Chile
    10.1% Japan
    10.0% Turkey
    =======================
    7.0% Canada
    5.9% UK
    4.9% Switzerland
    4.2% Germany
    3.4% France

    Thanks for reinforcing the stereotype that Americans don't think about facts before they start screaming "We're #1!"

    In this case, we are 33rd out of 36.

    1. Re:Not according to the OECD by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Sure, because 40% of one countries median income is exactly like 40% of another countries.

      Come back when you have comparable values, such as purchasing power.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Not according to the OECD by MatthiasF · · Score: 1

      Nice cherry-picking statistics, there.

      Meanwhile, median income in the US is higher than the countries listed. For comparison:

      40% of Median Income - Median income (USD)
      =======================
      14.9% Mexico - 4,689
      13.2% Israel - 14,055
      11.3% United States - 31,011
      11.2% Chile - 7,851
      10.1% Japan - 19,432
      10.0% Turkey - 5,940
      =======================
      7.0% Canada - 25,363
      5.9% UK - 25,168
      4.9% Switzerland - 26,844
      4.2% Germany - 21,241
      3.4% France - 19,615

      So, that 40% is a larger number than most of the rest. Then there's the drastic difference in population sizes that skews statistics (power law), but since this really isn't about an honest appraisal and just the typical America-bashing BS, I'll stop here.

    3. Re:Not according to the OECD by narcc · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile, median income in the US is higher than the countries listed.

      Way to be purposefully deceptive! You're numbers don't look so good when you normalize that to cost of living.

    4. Re:Not according to the OECD by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Way to be purposefully deceptive! You're numbers don't look so good when you normalize that to cost of living.

      $30k/year is a respectable middle class income for a single person in Alabama.

    5. Re:Not according to the OECD by tycoex · · Score: 1

      Is it strange for that to sound like a lot of money for me? I'm currently a college student and my wife and I make about 20k a year combined. We currently rent a two bedroom house with plenty of room, I have a nice gaming computer I built myself, we have a 42 inch flatscreen TV, two cars, go out to eat fairly often, donate 40 dollars a month to sponsor a child from Kenya, ect. We live a good life and seem to have more "nice things" than most people I know.

      Sure, I could use more money sometimes, especially when something unexpected comes up like having to get my brakes fixed, but we get by just fine. This is all on 10k per person. I would practically be swimming in money at 30k/year per person. What do people possibly spend all of their money on?

    6. Re:Not according to the OECD by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      Sure, I could use more money sometimes, especially when something unexpected comes up like having to get my brakes fixed, but we get by just fine. This is all on 10k per person. I would practically be swimming in money at 30k/year per person. What do people possibly spend all of their money on?

      Question of the age, I'd say.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    7. Re:Not according to the OECD by narcc · · Score: 1

      Great for that single person in some parts of Alabama. People in large cities, or those with families, would have a much more difficult time (rent alone in New York, San Diego, or Chicago will easily eat up more than half of that). Let's also not forget, that's household income, not individual income.

      My point, of course, was that the absolute figures are meaningless unless they're adjusted for cost of living. Just having a bigger number than the other countries is completely meaningless. You can starve in the US earning $10k a year, but that same amount will let you live like royalty in Bangladesh!

    8. Re:Not according to the OECD by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Um, if you define poverty as relative to other people in the same economy, you're always going to find as much of it as you want.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  25. Ya this would seem to be a story of things working by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Remember that providing a safety net for people doesn't mean that they get to have everything they did prior to needing it, or anything like that. Shelters -are- a safety net. They are a place you can go when you have no place else. That doesn't mean they are wonderful, but they are a place to stay for no charge.

  26. Re:She has a brighter future... by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

    While that's horribly sexist and a generally cynical and unpleasant way of looking at the world, I have to admit you have a point. Yes, what you have described is a legitimate career path to becoming a rich and influential woman. I'd imagine that most of us (trolls aside) would prefer to live in a world where all women find a fulfilling and challenging career in, say, science or the arts rather than thinly veiled prostitution, but the fact that the career path you describe even exists is a pretty damning view of western society.

    --
    Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
  27. Ok then let's hear it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Let's hear your great idea on how to fix homelessness. The GP made a very valid point: It is everywhere, including countries that are far more socialist than the US. It seems that humans haven't figured out a way to fix it. So maybe we shouldn't whine so much about needing to fix it because maybe we can't. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have safety nets (like, say, shelters) but this crap of "Oh how come America hasn't fixed homelessness?" is stupid.

    If you've got some magic fix for it, then let's hear it. If not then quit with the "America should be able to fix it!"

    It is one of those things that you can work on, we should work on, and we do work on. It isn't something you can solve. So bitching that it hasn't been is stupid.

    1. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Fri13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fix is socialism... But it is a tabu among most US citizens who are brainwashed to believe socialism is here to take your wealthy and forces you under government control where you can not choose who is your doctor or where your kid goes school....

      In social society, people take care of each other. They give what they can not use or dont need, to those who have needs. They do what they can with their powers to help others. It is not just you give money or you say "here is your apartment, live there". But that you organize a sponsor who supports you on the beginning. It is that you are teached and helped by people who have experience and wisdom to guide you trough hard times.

      It is that when you get sick or accident happens, many others will take small part of your work and carry it trough the time until you have recovered and you return.

      Socialism is about teamwork and caring others. It is about to help everyone to be independent and strong person where you don't have needs to harm anyone else.

      But people who are independent, strong and work together can not be controlled. They can not be brainwashed, you can not terrorize them to accept greedy people demands and be exposed to such people suggestions.
      So the sociopaths who does anything to come politicians or leaders, makes sure that there is no teamwork, independency, smart people, freedom of speech and thinking. They demand competition, they want people to fight, they want people to follow the show on TV while mens behind the curtains does all the planning for them, just to protect small group of greedy sociopaths who wants to control others.

      Terrorism is act of terror what a national leaders use to control own people and drive their own (terrorists) needs over their own people. The terrorists is not the one who lives in other country or who builds bombs... The terrorists is the person who works in government or big corporation and use terror and other similar tactics (like FUD).

      In US, 1% of people has over 90% of wealth. While 99% needs to live with under 10% of wealth... It simply should not be possible, but it is because greedy people demands and controls that there is competition on markets, that there is competition on schools, that there is competition among people and they make everything with their power so people would not start work together and discuss freely and change opinions freely and that they would take part to topics what greedy people want them to forget or ignore.

      It is easy to think about itself that you are great person if you give now and then few dollars to red cross or some other charity. But it is just lying to itself.

       

    2. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All this tells me is you've never been outside the US or done any real research. Why? Because there's homeless everywhere. Norway has homeless people. Not speaking in abstract here, I've been there (I have family there).

      So, care to try again?

    3. Re:Ok then let's hear it by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      I call it "Home Security". Just as Social Security is "earned" as a means for the elderly to be guaranteed a means to live when they are old, "Home Security" provides a means to guarantee that everyone who has worked sufficiently will have a home to live in, be it an apartment, house, or whatever. Okay, that idea isn't really perfect. The only reason Social Security works is because people have been brainwashed into believing that people earn it and they only believe that because it takes decades of work for any benefit to arrive; and even then, people still want to cut Social Security.

      To be an effective tool against homelessness, "Home Security" would have to provide benefits even to people who have worked only five years. Part of the answer is to acknowledge that houses exist that can be bought in five years time on even a rather meager wage and without it being but a quarter of a paycheck. Fannie and Freddy tried in part to cause this but had the opposite effect: they made 30 year loans common which encouraged middle class buyers to pay more for their home and to buy larger homes than they needed; something similar happened with college tuitions.

      Of course, all of the above is based upon the presumption that those in power would work to undermine their vast real estate interests, especially as supposedly its those real estate interests which are keeping the financial sector and hence the US economy afloat. :/

      PS - I realize you were probably being sarcastic and didn't really expect or want an actual response. I also recognize my idea is far from complete, would probably be rather costly, and would be difficult to implement and sell to the American people. I also recognize that no solution would end homelessness, which as hyperbolic as the GP was I don't think was his actual point--it was one of at least discussing such ideas and trying them. After all, the words used were the jingoistic talk about the power and uniqueness of America. It's rather inconsistent to then point out how much America is like all the other, less-powerful countries, even if it is true.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    4. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, let's try to explain it again to you... And Norway is the perfect example.

      You see, the people who are homeless in Norway are either; people who don't want a home (serious drug addicts, crazy people, etc) or people who are 'tourists' (gypsies, etc, that come to beg and/or steal).

      Anyone who wants a home gets one. Every. Single. One.

      Might not be the best of residences, and often you spend time in temporary dormitories and such until they find something more permanent. Even the worst of heroin addicts can get a place to live, only thing is many don't want the help. The other group, those who are here on tourist visa, they have their own country to seek help from.

    5. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How far have you got your head up your ass? I'm Belgian, Belgium is a "socialist" country, last time I voted I did so for the socialist party. I'm all for it. But every winter there are homeless people that freeze to death; not everyone has a roof over their head. And it's not a matter of choice like you said. You lie.

    6. Re:Ok then let's hear it by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      I call it "Home Security". Just as Social Security is "earned" as a means for the elderly to be guaranteed a means to live when they are old, "Home Security" provides a means to guarantee that everyone who has worked sufficiently will have a home to live in, be it an apartment, house, or whatever. Okay, that idea isn't really perfect. The only reason Social Security works is because people have been brainwashed into believing that people earn it and they only believe that because it takes decades of work for any benefit to arrive; and even then, people still want to cut Social Security.

      That would be because the "brainwashed" people have literally been paying into Social Security directly -- as an itemized paycheck deduction -- for as long as they've been employed. The date that it starts paying out doesn't have anything to do with it, at least not in the terms you're describing.

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    7. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is in the scale. A good example UK has a high homeless rate but provides good quality temporary accommodation (flats) to cover it, where as in the US the temporary accommodation is inadequate and doesn't provide a very good stepping stone back into normal life in comparison to the size of the problem. I have lived in US, UK, Germany and Australia and can say the UK probably achieved the best results combating homelessness, and Germany probably put in the most effort (but being on the continent the more effort they put in the more they seem to attract which compounds the problem.

    8. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Loundry · · Score: 1

      If you've got some magic fix for it, then let's hear it. If not then quit with the "America should be able to fix it!"

      You can't fix stupid. So they will fail in every attempt to "solve homelessness". But OP wasn't talking about homelessness. Bitsy Boffin was talking about America and how much he hates it. The homelessness tack is incidental.

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    9. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Loundry · · Score: 1

      The fix is socialism...

      Meanwhile, in Greece...

      --
      I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    10. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am from the U.S. where I lived in NYC for several years, and I am currently living in Copenhagen, Denmark, where they are close to zero homeless people (the last time I saw one was in 2010).

    11. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      I travel trough Norway almost once a year... from south to north... It takes about 2 weeks while I go about 80% of the cities what Norway has on coast.

      So, care to try again?

    12. Re:Ok then let's hear it by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      So whine all you like, we're winning. Your idiotic socialism leads to stagnation and eventually complete collapse.

      Did you know that the Bank Bailout what US government made to save those capitalistic banks, was a socialistic help?

      Did you know that bailout cost was more than even a NASA budget together from last 60 years?

      If you hate capitalism so much, then don't bailout your banks or companies.... Don't support them, don't allow them to transfer money from profitable market to another market where their products don't make profit...

      USA, the showcase of non-socialism and citizens don't even see how government, banks, corporations etc needs to turn to socialism to get even something saved after capitalism fucked up the whole world.

  28. Re:Ya this would seem to be a story of things work by forkfail · · Score: 1

    Of course, one also has to deal with the violence, theft, abuse, disease, and filth that often goes along with them.

    When there's space available.

    --
    Check your premises.
  29. Not Surprising by crossmr · · Score: 1

    Actually it's not that surprising. It would be more surprising if this person was middle class.
    Why?
    The Middle class are complacent. They've got just enough to keep them happy. Not enough to make them really want to rule the world, and not so little that they really had to work hard for it.

    Despite being poor, they do have the advantage of learning to work hard and appreciate everything. I know it's not a horribly PC thing to say, but it is the reality.

    You take your average poor kid and your average middle class kid and you'll probably find that the poor kid will work a little harder. Try a little more
    Now they may have less opportunity and less resources, but when they get them, they're much less likely to waste them.

    On the flip side you'd expect rich people to be really lazy, but that's not the case. Upper class/rich people have power and status dreams which drive them that middle class people don't have. Middle class people would like those things, but they often see them as fantasies, not really attainable.

    Rich people got it, and they don't want to lose it.

    1. Re:Not Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your evaluation is over-simple.

      According to you, there are only three different kinds of people: Poor, middle class, and rich, and they all exhibit no deviation from the three different behavior profiles you pulled out of your ass.

      Got news for you:

      I've met very lazy rich people who have never held a job in their lives, I've met middle-class people who slave long hours just to barely pay the bills, and I've met some people so poor, abused and malnourished they can't even think straight.

      Which is to say, the world is a LOT more complicated than the made-up cartoon picture you're projecting onto it.

      Time for you to stop talking shit and go experience the world a bit more before trying to judge it.

    2. Re:Not Surprising by PSandusky · · Score: 1

      On the flip side you'd expect rich people to be really lazy, but that's not the case. Upper class/rich people have power and status dreams which drive them that middle class people don't have. Middle class people would like those things, but they often see them as fantasies, not really attainable.

      That would be because, for most people in the "middle class" as it currently exists in the US, those "dreams" really are fantasies. When those people are something like a major injury or a cancer diagnosis away from being in that "poor" bracket, there are bigger things to worry about than vacationing in Dubai (to pull a "status and power dream" example). Employment certainly isn't secure these days.

      At least, not for the "middle class." When you've inherited millions or billions (or even hundreds of thousands) of dollars, a lot of those problems are a lot less problematic, and there's time to cultivate those "power and status dreams."

      --
      "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
    3. Re:Not Surprising by crossmr · · Score: 1

      It's called a generalization. I'd suggest you learn the basics of communication before you attempt to engage in it again.

      You simply cannot speak to every single case that may exist in the world. It's impossible to do so. Why don't you take the article and summary to task for being so surprised that she's poor? It's just another one of a million individual cases that shouldn't be out of place at all right?

      Everyone can come up with some anecdotal special case, but they're pretty much meaningless when you're having a big-boy discussion, but what to expect from someone who immaturely hides behind anonymity?

  30. wow by fallenspirit123 · · Score: 1

    wow, Samantha Garvey lives about 30 minutes from my house

    1. Re:wow by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      In 30 minutes I could be over 300 miles from my current position, or just 4 miles... It is all about subjectivity of used transportation.

  31. How about absolute poverty? by deanklear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/absolute-poverty/

    In terms of absolute poverty, we're one of the highest in the West, and all of the other nations on the list provide universal health care.

    In either case, it's safe to stay that Americans have some of the worst income inequality out of any country, and among similar Western nations, are in the bottom 10% when it comes to relative poverty rates, absolute poverty rates, child poverty rates, health care, and education. If you'd like to be proud of that, you're welcome to, but I'm certainly not.

    Patriotism is doing meaningful things to improve the lives of your fellow citizens, not pretending a problem doesn't exist to make yourself feel better about your country.

    1. Re:How about absolute poverty? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 0

      Income inequality is just something rabble rousers say to get the rabble all roused up.

      The richest 500 people in the US could just up and move somewhere else, or we could shoot them in the streets and burn their money. Suddenly income inequality would take a massive nosedive.

      Other than some stupid, made up statistic going down it is impossible for you to name one real benefit to this happening.

    2. Re:How about absolute poverty? by deanklear · · Score: 1

      Other than some stupid, made up statistic going down it is impossible for you to name one real benefit to this happening.

      How about money getting invested into infrastructure and education instead of sitting in a bank somewhere, or going to buy works of art, or spent on high end luxury items with very little economic long term benefit for society at large? There are actually plenty of better ways to use excess capital in our society.

    3. Re:How about absolute poverty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but consumption inequality is the lowest - because thats what people do with money they spend it on stuff. Thanks capitalism!

    4. Re:How about absolute poverty? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      So you went from a meaningless metric like 40% of median income when comparing nations, to another nation-specific metric...

      ..and your link is to an opinion piece, whose citation is a broken link.

      Is it really this hard to show that America is bad?

      Then you go on about being in "the bottom 10% among western nations", which can be translated as "doing very well" ...

      GDP/Capita vs Human Development Index. The graph shows that America is not out of line at all, contrary to your citeless claims.

      ...and you mentioned health care...

      GDP/Capita vs Health Spending/Capita. America again is right on the line along with everyone else.

      In both of these cases, we can predict with very good accuracy both the HDI score as well as health care spending per person for any country in the world, just by knowing its GDP/Capita. America isnt out of line.. your claims are.

      Then you go on about education and other non-privatized things.. um, hello? Are you suggesting that because our public education system has failed, that we should try something else... like a private education system? Exactly what are you saying?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    5. Re:How about absolute poverty? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      How about money getting invested into infrastructure and education instead of sitting in a bank somewhere

      Who are you claiming is hoarding capital? Be specific here. Its as if you think there are folks with billion dollar savings accounts.

      or going to buy works of art

      So is hoarding evil, or is spending evil?

      , or spent on high end luxury items with very little economic long term benefit for society at large?

      Surely those people that make luxury items dont need to earn a living, and they never spend that money...

      There are actually plenty of better ways to use excess capital in our society.

      What excess capital?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    6. Re:How about absolute poverty? by deanklear · · Score: 1

      All of your numbers are based on per capita rates, which doesn't show the effects of income disparity. The argument here is that in the western world, poor Americans are relatively worse off than poor Europeans, at least according to the Brookings Institution that is correct. Statistically, poor Americans have less of a chance of moving into higher income brackets than much of the Western world. Fifty thousand Americans die every year of lack of access to health care, a figure that is unheard of in the rest of the Western world.

      Regardless of how deep you keep sinking your head into the sand, the reality is that Americans are for the first time faced with less options than the generation before. You're welcome to pretend that it isn't happening, but abandoning enlightenment principles for the purpose of ignoring the welfare of your fellow citizens is hardly what I consider patriotic.

    7. Re:How about absolute poverty? by deanklear · · Score: 1

      Who are you claiming is hoarding capital? Be specific here. Its as if you think there are folks with billion dollar savings accounts.

      "The Federal Reserve reported Thursday that nonfinancial companies had socked away $1.84 trillion in cash and other liquid assets as of the end of March, up 26% from a year earlier and the largest-ever increase in records going back to 1952. Cash made up about 7% of all company assets, including factories and financial investments, the highest level since 1963." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704312104575298652567988246.html

      The bottom 80% of Americans only hold 15% of net worth in the United States.
      http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

      So is hoarding evil, or is spending evil?

      Participating in two wars, cutting taxes, and then making the middle and working class pay with austerity measures while the wealthiest Americans sit on top of record amounts of wealth is evil, and ultimately a detriment to our economy.

      Surely those people that make luxury items dont need to earn a living, and they never spend that money...

      Find a single economist who will tell you that sinking 10 million dollars into a painting has the same economic value as investing 10 million dollars in education, infrastructure, or scientific research. In fact, pushing up the values of rarities and luxury real estate does less for the economy than simply giving that money away to random people who would spend it on goods and services that create jobs in a much greater proportion.

      This is super basic economics, going all the way back to Adam Smith:

      When the toll upon carriages of luxury, upon coaches, post-chaises, etc. is made somewhat higher in proportion to their weight, than upon carriages of necessary use, such as carts, waggons, etc. the indolence and vanity of the rich is made to contribute, in a very easy manner, to the relief of the poor, by rendering cheaper the transportation of heavy goods to all the different parts of the country.

      who also said

      No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, cloath and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged.

      And that's what we're dealing with: power and capital have concentrated in the hands of people who make money by destroying American jobs and infrastructure, and reaping the profit from that destruction. What Smith could not have imagined is that people like you would support the destruction of their own nation's ability to provide for itself for the benefit of a handful of producers, who are "architecting" the whole system to have their own needs "most peculiarly attended to."

    8. Re:How about absolute poverty? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I despise socialism. In theory, I am a die-hard capitalist. If you can not provide for yourself and your family, the universe has a solution: death (and probably lots of suffering before you get there)

      I see socialism as a band-aid (TM?) for corrupted capitalism. Give everyone an equal chance and do not stack the cards or otherwise cheat and everything would be perfect. Not gonna happen though... humans are nasty evil creatures that when they find themselves on top, do everything they can (lie, cheat, steal, kill entire populations, etc) just to keep their coveted position.

      Which means some amount of socialism needs to be engaged in.

      I like income inequality. I have no desire to live with all of you other humans, but since I have to, I should see benefits similar to what I would achieve on my own.

      If I were a farmer, my planning would be better than most (but not all) other farmer's planning. I would notice and record patterns and I would be far more productive than average. This would accrue to me greater benefits than the average person would get. More food, which would bring in more females, which would allow me to create and support more children, etc etc.

      My skills have constantly been proven to be more superior than average. What reason would I have to work in an artificial environment that gives me the same amount as everyone else gets? My skills allow me to slack off more than others while seeming more productive.

      Socialism does not work. I am proud that America is not socialist. It is not shameful to me that Americans let people starve and die because they are unable to provide for themselves.

      It IS shameful to me that Americans (actually this part is true in all countries) force people to starve and die to improve their profit margins. Stacking the deck is pure evil. Stealing is less evil and very complicated but it is generally evil. That is what we have a lot of now. Stacked decks and thieving assholes. Socialism is a stacked deck too but in theory, should keep people from dying due to theft and stacked decks.

      Not sure why I rambled here. sorry

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    9. Re:How about absolute poverty? by deanklear · · Score: 1

      If I were a farmer, my planning would be better than most (but not all) other farmer's planning.

      Unless you break your leg. Or you get sick, or your spouse or mother or kids get sick, or there's a tornado, or a harsh winter, or a crop famine due to a fungus outbreak that no one has ever seen before, or the transportation infrastructure you depend on breaks down for some reason, or your equipment breaks down and holder of your warranty and insurance skipped town with the money.

      There's a reason straight capitalism is fine in theory: it's got nothing to do with real life if you're interested in providing your society with more than wishes for good luck.

    10. Re:How about absolute poverty? by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Yes, well... it is hard to motivate someone to take care of someone they do not care about. I am exceedingly generous when my funds are adequate. I am exceedingly stingy when my funds are not adequate. People who I care about are always well taken care of.

      What does that mean concerning the concept of larger societies than just family/friends/tribe/etc? I am unsure... but, I did say that some amount of socialism is necessary at the state level to counter balance how psychopathic humans can be.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  32. Re:Ya this would seem to be a story of things work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So do you turn away anyone with a criminal record, disease or unclean from a shelter? Look at hotel rooms - for some amount of money, you can have a nice room, multiple more modest rooms or multiple rooms serviced less often. The tradeoffs for shelters generally skew toward accommodating as many as possible and it is hard to argue with that.

  33. Re:Cue the Bullshit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They may not like it but they don't care enough to do anything constructive about it - so fuck you. And no, I'm not the AC you replied to. Incidentally, he never said Romney was a libertarian, so, sir, you can't fucking read properly. Douche. Assclown.

  34. And there's the problem with the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That there are 299 semifinalists likely from wealthy families, likely did their work in a gov't or university research lab or likely from a corporate internship, likely had a mentor, some expert, friends...or.... daddy helped them.

    Folks it's sad that 1 of them did the work all by themselves. OK, the homeless thing shows how exceptional she is, that she can do the work AND overcome her lacking environment, but there is always one exceptional person in these situations. It's because we judge them against "our own environment" and likely look back and say things like 'we take our situation for granted', or 'we are so fortunate'.

    There are some realities in life, that there are homeless-poor people or nurtured-wealthy people in this society. All I see in the article is "X' man burden syndrome" and Intel's PR exploitation. I hope she doesn't get sucked into the "corporate poster child" club as I see most winners of any science competition fall into... I know, I studied with Meyerhoff scholars, as well as work with a few BellLabs winners (from the 80's) and all I can say is 'where's the innovation?' (crickets). The article helps Intel far more than her.

    Congrats to her, she just made it into the club the hard way, not like the rest of us I'm sure. Will it help Intel, of course. Will it change her life? I hope so for the better. Will it change the fact people are homeless for a reason? No.

  35. see , just needed some motivation by cats-paw · · Score: 1

    as we allow more families to become homeless then will learn that they have to go that extra mile to achieve.

    It's important to not provide help of any sort to anybody at anytime or they'll just turn into degenerate slackers.

    America ! Fuck yeah !

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
  36. Where's the story? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1
    This is all I got on the crappy Newsday site that showed a giant dildo shaped graphic ad (took a while to load so all I could see was a graphic tool shape): "Samantha Garvey was overjoyed. She didn't think a kid living in a homeless shelter would have a chance in the national Intel science competition, but the 17-year-old Brentwood High School senior was named a semifinalist Wednesday. Garvey, who spent 2 1/2 years on a marine-life study, is one of 61 Long Islanders with a shot at Intel's top prize: $100,000. "It's amazing," she said, after..."

    Huh?

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  37. Re:She has a brighter future... by I+Read+Good · · Score: 1

    Not sure whether I should mod you down troll or redundant...

  38. Re:The truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You are probably the kind of person that bemoans any kind of societal assistance for people claiming that people's destiny are in their own hands and then turns around and speculates that anyone who lifts themselves up can only did so because of special consideration. Way to be part of the problem on both ends.

  39. Re:The truth? by forkfail · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Really?

    The homeless rate amoungst school kids is about 2.2%:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/1213/Homeless-children-at-record-high-in-US.-Can-the-trend-be-reversed

    There were 300 semifinalists. This means that all other things considered equal, there should be 7 homeless semifinalists.

    Of course, given the situations that homeless kids are in, I wouldn't at all expect that other things should be considered equal, and that it would be extremely surprising to find the same distribution for such achievers between homeless and non-homeless kids.

    With that said, though, one semifinalist is not at all surprising.

    Especially with what's being done to the middle and working classes in this nation.

    --
    Check your premises.
  40. Re:She has a brighter future... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    I'd imagine that most of us (trolls aside) would prefer to live in a world where all women find a fulfilling and challenging career in, say, science or the arts rather than thinly veiled prostitution, but the fact that the career path you describe even exists is a pretty damning view of western society.

    Er, no, it's a natural part of humanity. There has never been a society without prostitution. There will never be a society without prostitution. If you're appalled by the facts of life,it generally means there's something wrong with you, rather than the species. Women have been guided into their role/behavior through millions of years of natural selection (as have men, for that matter) - the moralistic musings of a handful of half-civilized primates isn't going to change that.

  41. Re:She has a brighter future... by narcc · · Score: 1

    Maybe your son will be the next Curtis Jackson!

    Who?

  42. Positive aspects of homelessness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did being homeless cause her to grow a thicker skin?

  43. Re:The truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are probably the kind of person who has never heard of a troll.

  44. Re:"Anyone can do it if they try, so why aren't yo by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 2

    Because it's a stupid question. It's necessary to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps unless you get lucky, work hard, or had a relative who did the same.

    See, this life isn't easy. Shit doesn't get handed to you. You're seriously pretending there's a "question" as to why someone should have to work hard to advance in life?

    Thank got our forefathers down through history didn't ask this asinine fucking question, or they would have been all "Meh, we're fine. Let's just all take care of eachother, don't work too hard out there developing new and better ways to do things!".

  45. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Homeless at Brentwood High School.
    Kinda like unemployed on a 10,000 a month retirement.

  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  47. Kind of disturbing by Radiophobic · · Score: 1

    I find it pretty disgusting that a student and her family have to rely on homeless shelters for survival in a first world country. They should have social services available that allow families with children to have a consistent place to live.

    1. Re:Kind of disturbing by ErikZ · · Score: 1

      Setting up a permanent underclass dependent on the government is a bad idea.

      Maybe you should focus less on your feelings and more on using your brain.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
  48. The process is simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Few and far between are people who are really cut out for critical thinking, and fewer still are those who have any interest in using the skill.

    Just as some people consider jogging and/or weight lifting to be laborious unpleasant activities better avoided, most people consider evidence-gathering, attention-paying, and big-picture-seeing to be undesirable uses of time. They bob along through life avoiding thought and reflection as much as they possibly can.

    Some of them go to school, memorize a bunch of facts, learn a trade, and consider themselves educated. Some of them become successful engineers or what-have-you. They do not, however, seek to have their comfort-bringing beliefs challenged, and they engage in all kinds of irrational defense when someone attempts to do it for them.

    They don't want to know the truth. They have no interest. And they outnumber us overwhelmingly.

    They are easy to manipulate, and so they are manipulated right into the same social hierarchies again and again (as the briefest review of history will demonstrate).

    Thoughtlessness is what brought us here...the thoughtlessness of the many which renders moot the actions of the thoughtful few.

    All of this has happened before and it will all happen again.

  49. Re:Compassion is noble, but by sjames · · Score: 1

    You seem to have brought some baggage in with you. In what way is a mentally ill person to blame for their mental illness? Perhaps if we would treat the illness, they would in return become productive citizens. Perhaps if there was a better safety net with opportunities to get going again they wouldn't be jaded. They may be damaged beyond repair, but they almost certainly had help getting that way.

    I never suggested that you could, should or that you even have anything to give to anyone. I merely suggested that you consider not looking down on them. Is that such an awful lot?

  50. Isn't this cruel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone thought about what the person referred in the article would feel if she were to read some of the comments here?

  51. Re:"Anyone can do it if they try, so why aren't yo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're SO missing the poster's point.

    He's not saying people shouldn't have to work.

    He's making a comment about the psychopathic leveraging of the system so that the playing field is so uneven as to ensure a steady supply of slaves at the bottom for the shitheads at that top to use and abuse.

    And taking care of each other doesn't prevent people from doing new and better things. Not by a long shot.

    Have you never experienced moments of creative inspiration?

    The greatest inventors and innovators in the world worked because they loved it first. The business strategy came second.

    It should come as no surprise that people who don't understand this also fail in the compassion department.

    You need a soul to experience such things.

  52. Re:Compassion is noble, but by Surt · · Score: 1

    This post reflects a severe misunderstanding of what happens when alcohol addiction takes hold.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  53. if the work was done before family became homeless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...a better title might be "Intel Talent Search Semifinalist Student Is Homeless"

  54. Re:I hope Intel avoids the obvious feel-good choic by PSandusky · · Score: 1

    She's a semifinalist. I hope Intel's judgement of her research isn't affect by the press coverage. It would suck for someone else's superior research to get shafted because he wasn't lucky enough to be appealing as a human-interest story.

    Not coincidentally, that line gets spoken by people whose research really, truly does suck. Even if it doesn't, semifinalists don't exactly drop off the planet. The kid can grow his heart a few sizes that day.

    --
    "What's the use in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?" --Fourth Doctor, "Robot"
  55. Re:She has a brighter future... by Grygus · · Score: 1

    You could have made the same arguments for slavery a couple hundred years ago.

  56. Holy subject verb agreement, Batman! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    if a predator such as crabs are introduced.

    She probably writes better English than that too.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  57. you meant by unity100 · · Score: 1

    name a CAPITALIST country that does not have homeless people. that ill does not exist in socialist countries.

    1. Re:you meant by SomeStupidNickName12 · · Score: 1

      Haha, you wish! Most socialist countries can't afford to give all people homes, with the exception of maybe Northern Europe. Go to Africa, Asia, etc most of those are socialist countries by nature and there are loads of homeless people. Capitalism maybe a broken system but socialism is no better, they are just broken in different ways.

    2. Re:you meant by unity100 · · Score: 0

      Most socialist countries can't afford to give all people homes, with the exception of maybe Northern Europe

      thats because the only locale that has been left untouched by united states' puppet building and dictator making, not to mention shit like gladio (due to avoiding nato membership) has been northern europe.

      all other locales of the planets had their share of u.s. political, economical or military interventions ( when others failed ).

      that's thanks to the rather desolate climate and lacking resources of northern europe, and lack of their strategic importance. anything they would be valuable for were already covered by other countries until then.

      and africa had to deal with the below shit :

      http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

      The very reason those countries are still in knee deep shit even 50 years after getting free of being colonies of european countries, was u.s.

      so, the reason socialism and socialist attempts have failed in ANY given country, is united states itself. the biggest example being cuba, and the sole reason being the totally illegal embargo u.s. enforces over cuba worldwide, with the only countries that can run past u.s. pressure and political influence and military power and trade with cuba being china and russia . any other country of the world hesitates from doing anything with cuba, and it is used only as a means to card to play in relations with u.s. if u.s. does anything to upset that nation. and EVEN in that case, healthcare in cuba is better than healthcare in usa, and u.s. rich secretly fly there to get fixed. whereas the u.s. poor keeps foaming at the mouth about cuba.

      thankfully cuba has stood so long, due to the protection of ussr and later russia. otherwise, u.s. would put an end to the socialism there the month it came to being - they actually tried it in bay of pigs too.

      Capitalism maybe a broken system but socialism is no better, they are just broken in different ways.

      just look at sweden and see. there are homeless there, yes, but they are homeless out of choice, not out of necessity. and, there is a good amount in between them that develop into poets, writers or authors eventually.

    3. Re:you meant by SomeStupidNickName12 · · Score: 1

      Buddy, while I have a very strong dislike for American foreign policy you are delusional if you think that the U.S is responsible for all the worlds problems. Pretty much every world "power" has screwed around with world politics.

      - USSR/Russia pretty much left most of Eastern Europe in poverty and screwed up Afghanistan before the U.S even got involved.
      - France was pretty much responsible for the Gadhafi's fall from power in Libya (see brutal socialist dictatorship) and has messed around with the politics of almost every North African country
      - Iran & Israel are just as much to blame for the disaster that is the middle east
      - China has committed more human rights violations in the name of socialism than any of the rest and supports brutal socialist dictatorship like North Korea

      The reason why most socialist states fail is not because the they are socialist its because they normally ran by a brutal dictator (propped up by any one of the countries listed above) only interested in their own financial gain.

  58. hey fucking moron by unity100 · · Score: 0
    read what someone posted just before you. before coming up like, an idiot.

    Yes, let's try to explain it again to you... And Norway is the perfect example. You see, the people who are homeless in Norway are either; people who don't want a home (serious drug addicts, crazy people, etc) or people who are 'tourists' (gypsies, etc, that come to beg and/or steal). Anyone who wants a home gets one. Every. Single. One. Might not be the best of residences, and often you spend time in temporary dormitories and such until they find something more permanent. Even the worst of heroin addicts can get a place to live, only thing is many don't want the help. The other group, those who are here on tourist visa, they have their own country to seek help from.

    THE ONLY PLACE AFFLICTED WITH 'PEOPLE WONT WORK' ILL IS AMERICA. there is NO such problem in other parts of the world. and in america, that is your excuse to dodge social responsibility.

    that family is homeless because of fucktards like you. why dont you go back to 1950s to fornicate with mccarthy, or, maybe just die out ?

    1. Re:hey fucking moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a fucking liar, plenty of places are afflicted with people who won't work. What do you think the dole is you nittering cunt hair?

    2. Re:hey fucking moron by unity100 · · Score: 1

      and you present a very convincing argument. the number of cuss words in your 'argument' has increased its persuasiveness further ! keep that up !

  59. hey by unity100 · · Score: 1

    just stop making up fucking excuses will you. when will be the time in which you will finally realize that this is a problem that is created by your system's artificial scarcity amidst all that wealth, and not something related to any excuse.

    1. Re:hey by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      You could have just put TL;DR, rather than trying to respond to a post you didnt read.

  60. Re:The truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh huh. Heh heh. Bone.

  61. god .... by unity100 · · Score: 2

    i skimmed the comments, and over 50% of the comments are americans finding excuses or rationalizing homelessness.

    tells a lot about why that country is in that knee deep shit as it is.

    there is a hole in the roof of the house, half of household is getting wet, but the other half is making excuses and rationalizations about how hole will be magically self-fixed, or how there are holes in other roofs too, or how getting wet incentivizes people to 'work', or how the people getting wet in a fucking house with a hole in its roof are 'lazy'. its your fucking house.

    let me tell you : this is stupid. escapist. lazy. self-centered. and will eventually bite YOU in your ass, which deserves it soo much.

  62. Haha, you fool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OCED members Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland all say hello and laugh at your nonsense...

  63. Re:She has a brighter future... by couchslug · · Score: 1

    Your Mom must want someone to mentor.

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  64. Nobody learns humility if only lazy are unemployed by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

    well up until very recently, the homeless were the lazy, entitlement seeking, dirty, smelly, socialist, parasitic trash.
    That's what this is about, teaching us that "but for the grace of God, there would I be". Nobody learns that if only the lazy are unemployed.

  65. your bad math by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

    well the math isn't necessarily bad, only the assumption that if all those people had degrees that the government would be making more money.
    You only need 50 people or so to run a company that can design and release a super-hi-tech cellphone. Educating more to do the same isn't going to increase your tax revenue. If anything it could decrease your revenue because the new graduates will be hired in place of the existing 50 workers, at a lower cost to employ.

    1. Re:your bad math by jd · · Score: 1

      The underlying assumption is that if you double the number of people in a generic field, you double the number of lines of research. In other words, instead of lots of people designing near-identical phones, you have the Dysons and Baylis' of the world inventing whole new fields or reinventing fields that have stagnated. That's more than enough to produce more revenue.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:your bad math by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      I disagree with that underlying assumption these days. The market couldn't absorb the extra supply of "stuff" that we don't need, and nobody is investing what with the uncertain future of the economy.
      Besides, a decent college education that will guarantee a job in this economic climate costs 6 figures.

  66. Re:She has a brighter future... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

    Having some familiarity with Intel and it's workalikes as an employer, I think I can say the selection process, while more competitive than your local best buy, probably is not as exclusive as a professional sports team. One could dedicate herself to studying math and science, rather than falling into prostitution, and have a very strong chance of being employed by Intel, or a tech company. Certainly offshoring and the devaluing of STEM trained individuals has had a negative impact on the industry, but many of us have managed to voluntarily leave our jobs, and get new jobs in this industry even during the deepest depths of recession.

    I won't deny that prostitution is a perhaps more noble career choice than working the welfare system over for handouts, but I think you swung well past considered realism and are deep into pessimism.

  67. (former)Homeless /. reader signing in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having been in shelters for roughly six months, I can tell you that probably two-thirds of the occupants are there because of themselves, or because of some mental condition. I've met a few that have had genuinely bad luck and have had little say in the matter, but they generally don't 'stay down' long, because they actually have the motivation to get out of the hole. The parents with kids that are there are usually the ones that assumed they'd be just fine starting a family, even though they were barely scraping by already.

    The stereotype of panhandling-by-the-corner-all-day-so-I-can-buy-booze-and-smokes isn't *always* true, clearly not in TFA anyway, but if you look at the majority of shelter residents that have been there 3+ years, it's usually the case.

    Once Samantha is able to get out on her own I'm sure she'll be able to climb the ladder fairly quickly, but if you're still underage then you can't really do anything about the situation you're in, because that responsibility is supposed to be with your parents.

    On an unrelated note,
    I find it funny that being homeless was the first time in my life I had internet access faster than 56k.

  68. She's just a minority... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And as such, she probably became a semifinalist because of her STATUS, not her level of competency or her intellect. I know I'll be downvoted for this, but honestly, has anyone else EVER encountered someone that was promoted or rewarded with something they didn't deserve JUST because they were a minority?

    This is a perfect case of an inferior human being getting a reward that it just doesn't deserve. Next thing you know, homeless people will be asking us for the rights to drive, vote, eat in the same restaurants as housed people, and marry housed people. Don't let this happen. We can stop this now.

    I recommend we either bury her up to her head in sand and stone her to death, or we find 20-30 housed men and have them gang-rape her. That'll teach her to try and associate with our kind.

  69. Re:She has a brighter future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you comparing prostitution to slavery? Prostitution is not slavery.

  70. In Soviet Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Soviet Russia... NOBODY was homeless.

  71. Re:She has a brighter future... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    You're already my Friend; I would Friend you again for that post. It is critically important to view the world as it is, not as one wishes it to be.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  72. Re:She has a brighter future... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

    You could have made the same arguments for slavery a couple hundred years ago.

    We still have slavery, so you can leave out the "couple hundred years ago" part.

    Criminalizing slavery allows people the freedom to chose who they wanted to work for, and what kind of work they wanted to do; criminalizing prostitution takes away that same right. I think your comparison is completely spurious. Slavery is the imposition of the will of a person or a group of people on another person or group. We didn't evolve to have subsets of the species which want to be slaves. If we had, I wouldn't object to slavery, either. I certainly wouldn't pass moral judgment on those who chose to work as slaves, nor would I express disgust with a society which gives them that option.

  73. Re:The truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're math doesn't take into account the inherent difficulty of those 2.2% being able to effectively do enough to make the final 300. There's no equal opportunity here because being homeless makes it harder for kids to focus and be successful. So that 2.2% doesn't quite fit, but nice try.

  74. The 1% who inherited their wealth by tlambert · · Score: 1

    I might add especially the 1%ers who inherited their wealth.

    The 1% who inherited their wealth are probably quickly spending their way into the bottom of the 99%, improving the lot of everyone along their way down.

    If, on the other hand, they inherited a blind trust, then they aren't doing that, but then again, there isn't a lot of dynasty building going on these days. Both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet aren't leaving the lion's share of their wealth to their children. They've already transferred large amounts over to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    Andrew Carnegie didn't either: instead he spent the last 20 years of his life on philanthropic work, and endowed the Carnegie Corporation in order to continue that work. His only child, Margaret, inherited a tiny portion as a trust fund, and was on the board of the foundation.

    You may remember Carnegie's establishment of free lending libraries in every county of the U.S., the endowment of Carnegie Mellon University, and about 1/4 of all the educational shows you've ever seen on PBS, among other works.

    Just because someone accumulates a lot of wealth doesn't mean that the government would, or could, spend it more wisely, and it doesn't mean that if that wealth were divided among the masses that they would do so either.

    The Carnegie free libraries have probably done more to advance knowledge, literacy, and education than anything the U.S. Government has ever done (aside from them not confiscating that money, enabling the libraries to be established without interference).

    Some big works require uncommon foresight and vision, but that is usually not enough, unless they are accompanied by unusual resources, as well.

    -- Terry

    1. Re:The 1% who inherited their wealth by quax · · Score: 1

      I have absolutely no problem with wealthy philanthropists deciding themselves what's the best way to give back to society - all the more power to them.

      The point is not the estate tax but prevention of dynasty building, because contrary to you assertion it has been pretty conclusively shown that trickle down economics is not accomplishing this (once an estate is large enough that a small share of the interest allows for a lavish life style the wealth accumulation persists).

      I should probably also mention that both Gates and Buffet have been arguing for a fairer i.e. higher taxes on the super rich.

  75. Homeless teen Intel semifinalist by akalaniz · · Score: 0

    Let's turn your question around.

    What meritous work do the 1% do to deserve the rapidly increasing and disproportionate chunk of the wealth that they get?

    If we started from scratch with ten couples, each with 1,000 sqaure miles of land, wealth inequality would start immediately for the next generation. Assuming (without loss of generality) that inheritence is passed with equal weight to all children born of a given couple, next generation sole children will be twice as wealthy as those children with a sibling, and these will in turn be wealthier than children who number one of three, and so on. The deterioration of wealth is natural. Eventually we arrive at a time when most land owners get so poor in land, that disasters force them to sell off parcels of their land. Thus we eventually get a landless class of worker bees. Disasters such as the plague temporarily reversed this natural trending by creating labor shortages, and thus temporarily increasing the power of the working classes. Today we live in the age Power Laws, and lifetimes far exceed the time for major paradigm shifts. The network connectivity to planetary assets by the top percentiles far exceeds the tiers down below, and Moore's-like laws lead to increasingly disproportionate growth. All roads once led to Rome, but everyone still had to walk or ride horses at best. Today technology is in runaway self-criticality. Who will first be able to afford creating improved offspring and buy life extension technology as it takes off in the near future? The race will become more disproportionate. Barring some great Mad Max catastrophe, which I don't buy into (we're more likely to vanish entirely in a modern disaster, say jetting a killer virus across the globe at the speed of airlines, than pull off some Hollywood survival fantasy) it is likely already too late I suspect. The bulk of us have been run off the cliff. We just haven't struck the ground yet. Of course I hope I'm wrong.

  76. She's also really hot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She's also really hot. I mean REALLY hot in an incredibly cute sort of way.

  77. How can parent be rated as "Funny" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's crude, it's stereotyping, it's tasteless.

    It's not funny at all !

  78. On behalf of the Internet... by wynterwynd · · Score: 1

    I would like to apologize to Samantha.

    The unfortunate circumstances of your family's current difficulties combined with your remarkable talent, hard work, and scientific mien means that the spotlight of the Internet and the mass media are going to put all of your hard work and effort in the shadow of your problems.

    I apologize for the hundreds of people who will humiliate you in a well-meaning manner by heaping unasked for bags of canned goods or unwanted care packages, for the jealous asshole classmates who will use your family's problems to try and push you down and hurt you, for the thousands on thousands of pitying looks and inquiries about your family in the middle of every single serious presentation you give for the rest of your academic career.

    We did that to you. We did it because we wanted a Cinderella story and you happened to be a bright enough diamond in the rough for us to exploit for a headline. I truly wish you could have been honored in a respectful manner that did not single you and your family out for being in difficult financial times. I am so very sorry that we make your beginnings more important than the new world you are trying to build. I'm sorry that we will drag your tragedy into the spotlight, crowding your triumph.

    If it is any consolation, you will probably be a finalist if you don't win the whole thing. I wish that we had not made things so difficult for you for the next year or so while we forget about you. Maybe some other come-from-behind story will come along and let you step out of that terrible spotlight.

    In the meantime, enjoy the scholarship you will undoubtedly get and remember that the awful glare of the public eye won't last forever - if you can learn to ignore the humiliation and the condescension you may be able to turn this momentum into something productive for your life and career. And at the very least, in a few years we will leave you alone and let you get back to your life and what you choose to make of it.

    --
    "Not all who wander are lost" -- JRR Tolkien