Russian Scientist Claims Signs of Life Spotted On Venus

WWCSD? by Zaldarr · 2012-01-23 03:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -The Sagan Standard

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Re:WWCSD? by nirgle · 2012-01-23 03:20 · Score: 5, Funny

What Would Charlie Sheen Do?
Re:WWCSD? by LoyalOpposition · 2012-01-23 03:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -The Sagan Standard
"I get to decide which claims are extraordinary and which claims aren't." -The Opposition Standard
~Loyal

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Re:WWCSD? by alphatel · 2012-01-23 03:31 · Score: 5, Funny

I for one, welcome our new disk, black flap, and scorpion overlords.

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Re:WWCSD? by LWATCDR · 2012-01-23 03:33 · Score: 1

I find it more interesting that an astronomer is making the claim than say a biologist.
It does seem very unlikely that a complex life from like a scorpion would live on Venus. If they do then it will be huge but the odds are really high that it is just an error.

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Re:WWCSD? by sl4shd0rk · 2012-01-23 03:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, Marcello Truzzi is credited with coining that phrase:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Truzzi

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Re:WWCSD? by Gideon+Wells · 2012-01-23 03:51 · Score: 5, Funny

Claim he has Venusian Scorpian blood?

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by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
Re:WWCSD? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 03:53 · Score: 1

It sounds like you married my ex-wife.
Good luck; you'll need it.
Re:WWCSD? by trum4n · 2012-01-23 04:02 · Score: 2

And then snort it?
Re:WWCSD? by NatasRevol · 2012-01-23 04:03 · Score: 1

Well, huge scorpions might explain the sighting on lower resolutions pictures - from 1982.

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Re:WWCSD? by Misagon · 2012-01-23 04:49 · Score: 1

Discover extraterrestrials being responsible for global warming on Earth, except that they claim that all they did was just speed things along because humans were foolish enough to not care anyway.

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"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Re:WWCSD? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 05:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not so extraordinary picture
Re:WWCSD? by elrous0 · 2012-01-23 05:12 · Score: 1

That's because the biologist took his meds today.

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Re:WWCSD? by hairyfeet · 2012-01-23 05:31 · Score: 4, Interesting

Well if life developed along a similar pattern or if you believe the theory that there are certain "universal forms' like the conch that are simply the most efficient form and therefor will naturally be created then a scorpion would be a most likely early life form as one of the earliest life forms we have records on is Bronto Scorpio or the sea scorpion. The bigger question would be is if it is a scorpion what is its prey?
While I'd have to see more proof than some fuzzy pictures from 1982 as we humans are known for seeing shapes and trying to "fill in the blanks" I think its arrogant of us to believe all life had to develop the same way we did. just look at the life we've found living next to volcanic vents, that is a truly hellish place with water that would boil us alive yet there is thriving life under all that pressure and heat. of course if i were to hazard a guess I'd say Europa and Ganymede are more likely places to find life simply because there is a good chance there is liquid water and as we know water makes for a great medium for primordial soup,but who knows, maybe liquid methane or hydrogen under the right conditions could also make a primordial soup, who knows.

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Re:WWCSD? by Yvanhoe · 2012-01-23 06:13 · Score: 1

"Nope" - The Public

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Re:WWCSD? by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-23 06:17 · Score: 1

He bangs 7-gram meteorites every day.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:WWCSD? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 06:54 · Score: 2, Informative

a Wikipedia article (without any primary source citation)

You mean like the big quote box including volume, issue and page number of the quote from Zetetic Scholar?
Re:WWCSD? by mcgrew · 2012-01-23 07:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

It does seem very unlikely that a complex life from like a scorpion would live on Venus.
It seems even more unlikely that any extraterrestrial life would evolve to look exactly like anything on Earth.

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:WWCSD? by Internetuser1248 · 2012-01-23 07:52 · Score: 5, Informative

Don't forget this is a 4th hand translated account we are getting here through the notoriously sensationalist media. There was probably a 30 page report in which the scientist outlined which optical effects could most likely result in such an effect on the image through camera error or heat distortion, and then a sentence like "there is a small possibility that the objects were moving of their own volition" which then got grabbed up and made the focus of a story. If you read something stupid in the media, try blaming the media first and the scientists only when you have seen 1) the evidence and 2) the actual conclusions of the scientist in their own words.

Careers can be ruined by this sort of thing, ignorant journalists and skeptical armchair scientists.
Re:WWCSD? by jythie · 2012-01-23 08:00 · Score: 1

If I only had mod points. Well said. Hopefully a better reported version will pop up soon.

That being said, I have heard speculation that something (probably microbial) could be living in the cloud layer and provides a good explanation for some of the effects we see, so the idea is not a cooky as it first sounds.
Re:WWCSD? by JTsyo · 2012-01-23 08:19 · Score: 1

look more likely something that fell off the probe on landing.
Re:WWCSD? by jpvlsmv · 2012-01-23 09:05 · Score: 1

Happens in Sci-Fi all the time. Are you suggesting that there would be something else different other than the third breast?
--Joe
Re:WWCSD? by LWATCDR · 2012-01-23 09:05 · Score: 2

That is just it we do kind of know.
Chemistry is the same everywhere. Take your idea about liquid hydrogen and liquid methane for example. Anyplace that is cold enough for those to exist are probably too cold for life. Life need energy and anyplace that cold will be by definition be energy poor.
Venus is probably too hot. Again it comes down to chemistry. They type of reactions that are needed for what we call life just will not work at heat because molecules like proteins well just fall apart on in this case too much energy.
Please notice I said "probably" life can be surprising but the idea that anything like a scorpion would live on Venus is way out their at the far edge of highly improbable. A shadow and the human minds great talent at finding patterns when when their is none to find is just way more likely.

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See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:WWCSD? by f3rret · 2012-01-23 10:02 · Score: 1

In all fairness, methan and hydrogen can also become liqidified under pressure.

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Re:WWCSD? by hairyfeet · 2012-01-23 10:09 · Score: 2

But who is to say that life has to fit our definition? Take you comments about being "energy poor" for example, we know that many of the giants cause the moons to be tidal locked, that constant pull creates plenty of energy as we have seen with the fountains of Ganymede. And we once thought that nothing could live in the cold dark depths of the ocean under such "energy poor" conditions with the added burden of insane pressures yet the farther we go down the more life we find that has adapted, to steal a line from an old movie "life finds a way' and all I was simply pointing out is it is incredibly arrogant to assume on an alien planet with vastly different conditions that life would automatically take the same route we took.
I'm personally a believer in what is called the "mediocre Earth" theory that states that Earth isn't some magically blessed place that is the only possible place life could have began. Maybe when we stop slaughtering each other and wasting trillions on even more military crap we don't need (WTF do we need 12 damned aircraft carriers for when the next most powerful country has 2? 5 times more powerful than everybody else isn't good enough anymore?) hopefully we will do an in depth study of Venus as well as Ganymede and Europa and i have a feeling we may find life on one of those three, it just won't be little green aliens or be ready to have conversations but i'm betting that we WILL find life. But when we do find our first signs of life out there I have a feeling it will be as alien to what we consider life on this blue ball as we are to squid. But to assume a place will not have life because it is "energy poor" in what WE would normally think of as energy doesn't mean it doesn't have plenty of other forms of energy such as gravity induced heat. Hell who knows what a methane based or silicon based lifeform would consider 'energy" anyway.

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Re:WWCSD? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 10:21 · Score: 1

Sounds like somebody found an intact Scorpions LP from Venus.
Re:WWCSD? by cyber-vandal · 2012-01-23 11:20 · Score: 1

Ask if life had been found on Uranus.
Re:WWCSD? by AmberBlackCat · 2012-01-23 12:09 · Score: 1

The bigger question would be is if it is a scorpion what is its prey?
My guess is some creature made of a disc with a black flap.
Re:WWCSD? by Grishnakh · 2012-01-23 12:12 · Score: 1

To be fair, the 3-breasted woman in Total Recall was not an alien, she was a human just like everyone else here. She had 3 breasts because she, along with many other human colonists there, were exposed to the Martian atmosphere which somehow caused them to have strange mutations. Many other characters in that movie had other odd mutations.
If you want to complain about alien stereotypes in sci-fi, you need to look at Star Trek, where most aliens are humans with odd bits of latex on their faces, or some spots on their neck, or pointy ears, or green-colored skin, etc. This is one place where Star Wars actually did much better than Star Trek; it was full of aliens who really did look more non-human (though many of them looked like stuffed animals from a bad dream), though most of them seemed to still have two eyes and a mouth.
Re:WWCSD? by TheInternetGuy · 2012-01-23 12:34 · Score: 1

Life does probably develop along similar patterns in similar circumstances.
But Venus with a surface atm. pressure of 9.3 MPa, about a 100times Earths 101Kpa
On top of that a surface temp of 460c and an atmosphere consisting of 93% Carbon dioxide with no signs of free oxygen.
So I would not assume that life if it could even develop under such circumstances would look anything like a scorpion.
The mud flaps looks interesting though , I could totally see mud flaps developing under those circumstances. Or they might just have been left there by some space trucker. Who knows.

--
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Re:WWCSD? by tragedy · 2012-01-23 14:28 · Score: 1

Not to mention the fact that there's a genuine condition called polymastia. Usually it does not result in such a regular formation, however.
Re:WWCSD? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · 2012-01-23 16:58 · Score: 1

As long as they don't involve climate change. In that case, ordinary garden-variety evidence will do.
Re:WWCSD? by Joce640k · 2012-01-23 23:35 · Score: 1

Wouldn't it be amazingly cool if slashdot linked to articles with the actual pictures in them?
Radical thinking, I know...but just imagine the possibilities!

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No sig today...
Re:WWCSD? by tehcyder · 2012-01-24 02:12 · Score: 1

What you laughingly call a creature made of a disc with a black flap, is actually a terrifying space bat. They're everywhere.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:WWCSD? by tehcyder · 2012-01-24 02:13 · Score: 1

I think it's the fact that the scorpion speaks English that's really weird.

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:WWCSD? by mcgrew · 2012-01-24 02:22 · Score: 1

Happens in Sci-Fi all the time.
Elves and goblins happen in fantasy all the time, too. Sci-Fi stands for science fiction. And note that you almost never see human-like aliens in literature, only film.
Here are a couple of my short sci-fi stories that have to do with aliens.
A strange discovery
We still haven't found extraforgostnic life
Little Green Men

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:WWCSD? by fifedrum · 2012-01-24 02:28 · Score: 1

not like the tripple-breasted whore of Eroticon Six then?
Re:WWCSD? by ConceptJunkie · 2012-01-24 03:55 · Score: 1

So you're saying it's all George W. Bush's fault?

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You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Re:WWCSD? by EETech1 · 2012-01-24 06:05 · Score: 1

They truly did have some outta_this_world shit! Those Scorpions!
Or.
A scorpion landed on your mama and she flung it there!
Or.
Woman = Venus = Scorpion baking in 2,000,000 year old disaster
(somebody stop me...)
Re:WWCSD? by EETech1 · 2012-01-24 06:55 · Score: 1

Simulation:
Scorpion in the oven on CLEAN!
Kinda dry and ash-y is how we understand them to be.
Re:WWCSD? by EETech1 · 2012-01-24 07:05 · Score: 1

That looks like one heavy_mother_fucker to send to another planet!
Big 4 inch (sorry 100 mm) thick steel body, sent up in an uber reinforced giant soup kettle on skids.
WOW!
Re:WWCSD? by tragedy · 2012-01-24 13:57 · Score: 1

I always assumed that was a feature of the species. Although, if that were the case, it would be a little odd to need to mention it when naming her.
Re:WWCSD? by alienzed · 2012-01-26 01:56 · Score: 1

I, for one, welcome soup.

--
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!

So... by stixn · 2012-01-23 03:19 · Score: 1, Offtopic

that's why I sold a piece of toast for $50 bucks... it looked like Jesus.

Re:So... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-01-23 03:34 · Score: 1

You probably would have gotten more if it looked like a disk, a black flap, and a scorpion.

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Re:So... by Hartree · 2012-01-23 03:48 · Score: 3, Funny

"looked like a disk, a black flap, and a scorpion"
Is that like one of those drafting exercises where an object looks like a black flap from the front, a scorpion from the side, and a disk from above?
Re:So... by littlebigbot · 2012-01-23 04:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

What in god's name does a "black flap" look like?
Re:So... by gstoddart · 2012-01-23 04:10 · Score: 4, Funny

What in god's name does a "black flap" look like?
Usually, kinda black and flappy. :-P

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 04:18 · Score: 1

It looks exactly like a shadow when the camera does not have the contrast capability to provide detail in the dark areas.
Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 04:21 · Score: 1

"Disk, Black Flap, and Scorpion" - best black metal band name?
or best black metal band name EVER?
Re:So... by gstoddart · 2012-01-23 04:27 · Score: 1

It looks exactly like a shadow when the camera does not have the contrast capability to provide detail in the dark areas.
Given the complete lack of photos in TFA, I'll stick with my description.
All it says is that "another news source reported that a Russian scientist claims to have found something".
There's absolutely nothing I've been able to find that allows one to reach any conclusions about the ability of the camera to register contrast. Because there are no pictures in the links.
So, black and flappy it is.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:So... by king+neckbeard · 2012-01-23 04:52 · Score: 1

I like "Black Flap Scorpion Disk" better.

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Re:So... by FatLittleMonkey · 2012-01-23 05:26 · Score: 1

"looked like a disk, a black flap, and a scorpion"
Is that like one of those drafting exercises where an object looks like a black flap from the front, a scorpion from the side, and a disk from above?
And it turns out it was an elephant all along?

--
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Re:So... by arisvega · 2012-01-23 05:47 · Score: 1

A Disk, a Black Flap, and a Scorpion walk into a bar:
The disk got conscripted by the barkeep for serving, the Black Flap flapped the bar's black door, and the Scorpion killed them all.
Then they had an orgy and lived happily ever after, on Venus.

--
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Re:So... by budgenator · 2012-01-23 06:11 · Score: 3, Informative

The picture is published at "Is this life on Venus? Russian scientist claims to have seen 'scorpion' in probe photographs"; I don't think it look like a scorpion though, more like the bio-luminous worm like thingies in the movie "Pitch Black" to me. The photos are way to grainey to get anywhere past the "if you squint your eyes and tilt your head" stage. The book "There's Somebody Else on the Moon" had way better photos.

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Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Re:So... by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-23 06:42 · Score: 1

I've done a quick sketch of this object using MS Paint:
https://imgur.com/Y0npI

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:So... by gstoddart · 2012-01-23 08:14 · Score: 1

The photos are way to grainey to get anywhere past the "if you squint your eyes and tilt your head" stage. The book "There's Somebody Else on the Moon" had way better photos.
Well, if the first picture with the big red circle is supposed to resemble anything more than that ... well, then I remain unimpressed. I see a grainy blob on a grainy background, with what looks like digital noise, and not enough context to have the slightest idea of what that is or how big it's supposed to be.
I mean, "'What if we forget about the current theories about the non-existence of life on Venus, let's boldly suggest that the objects' morphological features would allow us to say that they are living,' he added." essentially says ... let's ignore that I have no evidence, but just imagine there was life on Venus; it might look just like this blob right here, which could be practically anything.
I've seen more compelling evidence of Big Foot or Nessie. :-P

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:So... by tragedy · 2012-01-23 14:32 · Score: 1

Well, the ending is right out of any of Heinlein's later books.
Re:So... by cthulhu11 · 2012-01-23 19:35 · Score: 1

Wow, hadn't expected a reference to that book. My public library had a copy when I was a kid, but I haven't managed to find a copy since. I remember pictures of what the author called X drones, and a claim that mining was going on.
Re:So... by tehcyder · 2012-01-24 02:19 · Score: 1

What in god's name does a "black flap" look like?
Uranus?

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:So... by budgenator · 2012-01-24 04:58 · Score: 1

Used softcover is $54.99 at amazon, hard cover is $150.00! I might just have to root around in my parents basement to see if my copy had survived 40 years down there.

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Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Re:So... by cthulhu11 · 2012-01-24 05:39 · Score: 1

Yep, I went there to look and saw those. Alibris has similarly pricey copies. Around the same time I saw a book claiming that there were transparent amoeba-like creatures floating around in the air but can't remember the name of that one.
Re:So... by Maritz · 2012-01-24 06:48 · Score: 1

For what it's worth I don't even think this is off topic, it's all Pareidolia at the end of the day. Any 'scientist' seeing any 'shapes' in pretty much anything is crushingly dull as a story. If I saw a cloud that looked like Brian Blessed playing air hockey I wouldn't publish a paper about it.

--
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Or not. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 03:19 · Score: 1

FTFA:

"Ksanfomaliti cautioned that the objects he wrote about seem to “emerge, fluctuate and disappear” in different photographs taken from a variety of vantage points."

So it could be a problem with the equipment, an optical illusion, or both. Merits further investigation, but not conclusive evidence of life on Venus.

Re:Or not. by DarKnyht · 2012-01-23 03:32 · Score: 1

Hey, they probably built those martian pyramids that VHS tape I bought in the 80's told me about.

--
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Re:Or not. by Gripp · 2012-01-23 04:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't understand why there are not any pictures with this story.
Re:Or not. by Dishevel · 2012-01-23 04:34 · Score: 1

Well. I mean the summary did link to Yahoo.
When did anything of value ever come from Yahoo?

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Re:Or not. by phrostie · 2012-01-23 05:23 · Score: 1

I'm not saying i'm sold on his claim, but consider how much was overlooked by Viking that was later discovered by spirit and opportunity.
also consider how many new species we've found on our own planet since then that had been previously over looked because they lived in an extreme environment.
I'm taking a wait and see on this one.
Re:Or not. by Caesar+Tjalbo · 2012-01-23 07:36 · Score: 1

Given the conditions on Venus, we probably have a hard time recognizing it. I won't say it's impossible either based on what we find on our own planet but I doubt if an extreme environment on Earth is as extreme as Venus.

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mirage by alphatel · 2012-01-23 03:20 · Score: 3, Informative

Or easily explained by the distortion of a lens by heat in desert conditions - this one a scathing 1k F.

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When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.

Re:mirage by AikonMGB · 2012-01-23 03:33 · Score: 5, Funny

Since when has temperature been measured in kilofarads?
Re:mirage by Samantha+Wright · 2012-01-23 03:36 · Score: 2

Slashdot eats degree symbols, even if encoded as HTML entities. Alas we cannot poke fun at people for that particular typographical wandering.

--
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Re:mirage by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-23 04:01 · Score: 5, Informative

Mirage. Or easily explained by the distortion of a lens by heat in desert conditions - this one a scathing 1k F.
I doubt it. You need temperature variations in order to get this effect (hot ground, colder atmosphere) which is not going to happen on Venus, seeing as most of the heat and light is absorbed in the atmosphere before it touches the ground. You won't even get diurnal temperature variations, as the thermal capacity of the dense armosphere is quite significant, and finally, the convection will smooth out any local temperature inequalities. You simply never get the optical interface necessary for a mirage.

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:mirage by afc_wimbledon · 2012-01-23 04:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

Slashdot eats degree symbols, even if encoded as HTML entities. Alas we cannot poke fun at people for that particular typographical wandering.
Neither the SI temperature unit (K) nor the most common (C) require a pesky degree symbol. As the internets is supposed to be worldwide and modern, perhaps chosing one of those units might have been more appropriate?
Re:mirage by chefmonkey · 2012-01-23 04:44 · Score: 5, Informative

I think you're a bit confused about typographical conventions around representation of Celsius. This is a quick and illuminating read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius#Name_and_symbol_typesetting
Re:mirage by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-23 04:48 · Score: 2

Something you can expect with 700 kph winds.
There are no 700 kph on the surface of Venus. They actually move at walking pace. Given the density of the atmosphere, however, you wouldn't be able to stand still anyway.

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:mirage by afc_wimbledon · 2012-01-23 04:57 · Score: 2

I sit corrected on Celcius, which still requires the degree symbol. I'd love to be able to say I only use Kelvin, but....
Re:mirage by viperidaenz · 2012-01-23 06:16 · Score: 1

Mars has the massive winds...
Re:mirage by Tablizer · 2012-01-23 06:22 · Score: 1

What about temperature variations caused by vicinity of the probe? The probes are far cooler than the surface after landing.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:mirage by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 06:47 · Score: 1

Yes, so instead of measuring temperatures in farads, we can measure them in coulombs. That makes everything better!
Re:mirage by Kittenman · 2012-01-23 08:06 · Score: 1

Something you can expect with 700 kph winds.
There are no 700 kph on the surface of Venus. They actually move at walking pace. Given the density of the atmosphere, however, you wouldn't be able to stand still anyway.
Walking pace? Define "walking pace". I'm pretty sure the winds are strong enough to turn the umbrellas of any Venusian Black Flappian inside-out, and muss many an expensive hair-do.

--
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
Re:mirage by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-23 08:07 · Score: 1

What about temperature variations caused by vicinity of the probe? The probes are far cooler than the surface after landing.
I'm pretty sure that the surface (and the outermost layer of the heat shield) of the probe will heat up pretty quicky, since the purpose of the surface is to insulate the heat so that it won't destroy the instruments before the measurements are taken. That means little heat flow, and that in turn means a steep temperature gradient near the surface and virtually no difference between the temp of the surface and the temp of the environment. In addition, by the time the lander hits the surface, it has already traveled something like 20 km in atmosphere having a temperature over 600 K, and while it descends through those 20 km, the dense hot gas flows along the surface for about 10-15 minutes. I find the idea of the probe being "far cooler than the surface" after landing rather silly.

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:mirage by viperidaenz · 2012-01-23 08:29 · Score: 4, Funny

Uranus has some pretty strong winds too...
Re:mirage by Solandri · 2012-01-23 09:05 · Score: 1

I doubt it. You need temperature variations in order to get this effect (hot ground, colder atmosphere) which is not going to happen on Venus, seeing as most of the heat and light is absorbed in the atmosphere before it touches the ground.
Temperature variations inside the camera can also cause these distortions (specifically, heating of trapped gas between the optics and the sensor; although in this case heating and expansion of the lens and its housing relative to each other could also be a factor). And the camera would have been subjected to a very large temperature change in a short period of time.
Re:mirage by turgid · 2012-01-23 09:14 · Score: 1

Venusian Black Flappian
Thanks, I'm committing that one to memory.
This is the funniest discussion on the Interwebs in a long time. I haven't laughed this hard since I first watched Mr Hankey. That was a long time ago!

--
Stick Men
Re:mirage by Tablizer · 2012-01-23 13:29 · Score: 1

I find the idea of the probe being "far cooler than the surface" after landing rather silly.
I understand about the insulation, but the difference between the internal temp and external temp is so great that it's hard to believe the outer surface of the probe is close to the native temp.
The electronics probably won't work above about 200F, while the external temp is about 900F. That's a diff about about 700F! Even if the outer surface of the probe is say 800F, you still have a 100F difference from the native temp.
Physical simulation anyone?

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:mirage by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-24 00:52 · Score: 1

I understand about the insulation, but the difference between the internal temp and external temp is so great that it's hard to believe the outer surface of the probe is close to the native temp.
Given modern insulation materials, such as silica aerogel, all kinds of cool things are possible! (Yeah, that was a lame pun.) But I don't think that this is a matter for belief, it's rather a matter for a few quick back-of-the-envelope computations, isn't it?

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Ezekiel 23:20
Re:mirage by Tablizer · 2012-01-24 06:34 · Score: 1

The Venera landers were built in the late 70's.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:mirage by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-01-24 12:00 · Score: 1

That's true, and their shielding was proportionally thicker, but the argument remains the same.

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Ezekiel 23:20

No pictures!~ by zidium · 2012-01-23 03:20 · Score: 5, Funny

No pictures were included, so how can we form our own, uneducated, opinions???

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Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!

Re:No pictures!~ by sanosuke001 · 2012-01-23 03:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

pics or it didn't happen!

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-SaNo
Re:No pictures!~ by KBehemoth · 2012-01-23 03:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Couldn't find any pictures of the aliens, but I did locate schematics of the exploration vehicle: http://i.imgur.com/gER2w.jpg
Re:No pictures!~ by azadrozny · 2012-01-23 03:52 · Score: 1

Sorry, they are copyrighted. Mr. Ksanfomaliti will be happy to share them with you 2077.
Re:No pictures!~ by the_fat_kid · 2012-01-23 03:55 · Score: 4, Funny

scorpion flap or gtfo?

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-- Sig under construction...
Re:No pictures!~ by VortexCortex · 2012-01-23 04:36 · Score: 5, Funny

If putting my disk in a scorpion flap is wrong, I don't want to be right!
Re:No pictures!~ by Saxerman · 2012-01-23 04:41 · Score: 1

A few pics have been included in a UK tabloid... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2090556/Life-Venus-Russian-scientist-claims-seen-scorpion-probe-photographs.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

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A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
Re:No pictures!~ by JamesP · 2012-01-23 04:56 · Score: 1

It's probably a gas balloon
Or maybe the Google Street View car

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how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
Re:No pictures!~ by Creepy · 2012-01-23 05:36 · Score: 1

I'd say the person that wrote the article is scientifically uneducated, failing to indicate units on their temperature and listing a temperature in Fahrenheit units (or I think it is, since I recall it being a mean around 460C and I can't think of any other units the writer would have used).
By the date and a search I figured out that probe is Venera 14, which broadcast about an hour of data back to earth after landing in a 94bar atmosphere location and 465C temperature. I'm not sure how many pictures were sent back in that time, but the article I found said the quality wasn't that good and some of the pictures are cleaned up by a guy named Don P. Mitchell (no links in that article, but that should be enough to find more info if desired).
Re:No pictures!~ by TheDarkMaster · 2012-01-23 06:10 · Score: 1

Thanks, it's better with pictures to see for himself whether the scientist is talking nonsense or not.

My educated guess is that the scientist may have actually seen rocks being carried by the wind, as the atmosphere of Venus is very dense and therefore could make stones to even float if they are porous or light enough. But it is interesting to think the opposite too, if they are really life forms then how they survive the conditions of Venus?

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Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Re:No pictures!~ by viperidaenz · 2012-01-23 06:26 · Score: 1

So Don played a prank?
Re:No pictures!~ by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-23 06:46 · Score: 1

Was that really part of the Russian "remote living dog head" experiment? Please say yes. Please.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:No pictures!~ by roman_mir · 2012-01-23 08:00 · Score: 1

no, that wasn't, but this was

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You can't handle the truth.
Re:No pictures!~ by marcosdumay · 2012-01-23 13:19 · Score: 1

Thanks. I was just refreshing the page, allowing more javascript each time, refusing to belive that an article about a couple of pics didn't have the pics...

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Rethinking email

“Let’s boldly suggest by mapkinase · 2012-01-23 03:20 · Score: 2

“Let’s boldly suggest"

Let's not.

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Re:“Let’s boldly suggest by Tablizer · 2012-01-23 13:32 · Score: 1

A Kirk, you are not.

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Table-ized A.I.

I'm somewhat skeptical.. to the say the least. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 03:21 · Score: 1

And no pictures highlighting your claim? Damn you!

Scorpions? by vlm · 2012-01-23 03:21 · Score: 4, Funny

Leonid Ksanfomaliti, ...claims to have found signs of life...objects resembling ... a scorpion

I haven't heard the Scorpions since the 80s. They were pretty good in their niche. Is this a reunion tour?

--
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger

Re:Scorpions? by chinton · 2012-01-23 03:42 · Score: 1

They are on their farewell tour. Oddly enough, the tour dates on their web site don't mention Venus. They will go to Russia in April, however. Coincidence? I think not.
Re:Scorpions? by guttentag · 2012-01-23 03:42 · Score: 3, Funny

Leonid Ksanfomaliti, ...claims to have found signs of life...objects resembling ... a scorpion
I haven't heard the Scorpions since the 80s. They were pretty good in their niche. Is this a reunion tour?
Nope. The summary specifies that the scientist's claims are based on 30-year-old photos, which means they may have been on Venus then (which isn't so far-fetched... they opened for a group called UFO in 1972 and their guitarist then joined UFO, so it's quite possible that the scientist saw a UFO who looked like a Scorpion because he used to be one), but according to Wikipedia they've been back for some time now. In fact, their tour at the time of these photos was called the Blackout Tour. Curiouser and curiouser.
Re:Scorpions? by camperdave · 2012-01-23 03:50 · Score: 1

I liked Banarama's version of Venus.

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When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Re:Scorpions? by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · 2012-01-23 03:51 · Score: 1

Your post rocked me like a hurricane.
Re:Scorpions? by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · 2012-01-23 04:08 · Score: 1

And hey, there are hurricane-force winds on Venus. See how it all comes together?
Re:Scorpions? by Balanced · 2012-01-23 05:07 · Score: 2

The Venus concert is a special collaboration with the Europe reunion tour. Weird combination, no?
Re:Scorpions? by oldmac31310 · 2012-01-23 06:56 · Score: 1

If I must hear that song then it has to be the original version by Shocking Blue. Bananarama were just so bad.

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http://www.acetonestudio.com
Re:Scorpions? by chinton · 2012-01-23 07:14 · Score: 1

Yes, Europe are heading to Venus but they have so many light years to go they won't get there in our lifetime.

Venera pictures by troon · 2012-01-23 03:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

See this site for the best processed pictures from the Venera missions. Absolutely fascinating stuff those Russians did then.

http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_DigitalImages.htm

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Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev

Re:Venera pictures by troon · 2012-01-23 03:23 · Score: 5, Informative

Er, sorry. Try this newer page:
http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm

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Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
Re:Venera pictures by adamgundy · 2012-01-23 04:22 · Score: 2

that site seems to be getting hammered... try this cached copy:
http://www.free-photos.biz/photographs/science/astronomy/67895_c_venera09_processed.php
Re:Venera pictures by Osgeld · 2012-01-23 07:59 · Score: 1

How do you know your getting old?
When you start adding THE to band names
its not THE Scorpions its Scorpions, just as its not THE Deaf Leopards, or THE Van Halens
Re:Venera pictures by troon · 2012-01-23 21:02 · Score: 1

And the author's considered response and explanation of the claims:
http://donpmitchell.blogspot.com/2012/01/life-forms-on-venus-probably-not.html
Note that Don has access to the original Venera raw data and isn't working from the usual poor quality photos.

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Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev

no pictures by statsone · 2012-01-23 03:22 · Score: 1

and saw objects resembling a “disk,” a “black flap” and a “scorpion.”

From this distance? Some telescope.

What is this site? Science or gossip?

Re:no pictures by bws111 · 2012-01-23 03:25 · Score: 1

What distance? It says the pictures were from a Russian landing probe.
Re:no pictures by alphatel · 2012-01-23 03:32 · Score: 1

A “disk,” a “black flap” and a “scorpion” walk into a bar....

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When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.

Well, these ought to be interesting pictures... by orphiuchus · 2012-01-23 03:23 · Score: 5, Informative

*clicks on article* ...Hmm, ok, no pictures here.
*googles it* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2090556/Life-Venus-Russian-scientist-claims-seen-scorpion-probe-photographs.html?ito=feeds-newsxml.
Yea... I'm no astrocryptozoologist, but that doesn't look like life to me.

Re:Well, these ought to be interesting pictures... by MemoryAid · 2012-01-23 04:16 · Score: 1

Scroll down to the bottom. The last picture resembles a lifeform. The speech bubble clinches it: "Destroy Dan Dare!"

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Language students: Don't try to learn English here. This ain't it.
Re:Well, these ought to be interesting pictures... by medv4380 · 2012-01-23 04:30 · Score: 1

The "signs" might be worth looking into, but I have to agree with you that those signs are more likely not life at all. Honestly I don't think Venus could support complex life anyways right now. If their is life it would be more like our Extremophiles and those are usually difficult for us to locate even on the Earth.

I, for one by Alter_3d · 2012-01-23 03:23 · Score: 1

Welcome our new big breasted overlords.... or is it overladies??

Re:I, for one by Remus+Shepherd · 2012-01-23 03:56 · Score: 1

Hey, if you don't find big breasted scorpions sexy, then you're just too close-minded to be a russian scientist.

--
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
Re:I, for one by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-23 06:50 · Score: 1

Pic above is NSFW, and if you're an arachnophobe it's NMS as well.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

come on, no pics? by PJ6 · 2012-01-23 03:24 · Score: 1

Who in their right mind would write an article like that without including the photographs?

And seriously... why do we even see this story here?

Re:come on, no pics? by ArsonSmith · 2012-01-23 03:31 · Score: 1

Yea it's a bit miss leading. He found a little blue pill and exclaimed, "Zhere be life in my vinus!!" to his wife. That was heard by someone else and this article came of it.

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Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.

We have to go deeper! by Sockatume · 2012-01-23 03:24 · Score: 2

Digging back to the original source gets "Solar System Research". Seems like a legit journal:

http://www.maik.ru/cgi-perl/journal.pl?name=solsys&page=main

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?

Re:We have to go deeper! by Sockatume · 2012-01-23 03:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

The author designed some of the instruments on Venera, in fact. I can find several articles by him in the aformentioned journal but nothing that suggests "aliens".
http://www.springerlink.com/content/0038-0946/?k=Ksanfomaliti

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?

Intelligence found by gmuslera · 2012-01-23 03:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

but on earth. We do pattern matching, even when there is none, we see shapes of gods in cluods, of the future in tea leaves, even faces in the moon and mars. This could have been totally random shapes. But of course, if it was life, specially one that are totally different from what we are used to see, could be a step forward for us, still too much people see earth as the center of the universe.

Re:Intelligence found by VortexCortex · 2012-01-23 04:41 · Score: 1

Well, even if we take the interpretation of the images at face value, I still find it inconceivable! I have it on good authority that scorpions are terrible at black flap frisbee golf.

Yahoos by InsertCleverUsername · 2012-01-23 03:31 · Score: 1, Funny

Sigh... I don't know if anything from Yahoo is even worthy of /. idle. The site is really a testament to what happens when a company stands still. Frequent users are almost exclusively people who landed there after AOL ceased to be a premiere destination (in popular culture). Just like Yahoo, they didn't upgrade and adapt. And that's why their user base is on the left side of the curve and their user-generated content is terrifyingly ignorant.

Come, stare into the abyss of people just smart enough to use a computer: Exhibit A: http://answers.yahoo.com/

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Ask me about my sig!

Re:Yahoos by mclearn · 2012-01-23 04:37 · Score: 1

Yahoo Answers is the only site I've ever decided needs to be worthy of the Google block.
Re:Yahoos by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-01-23 05:37 · Score: 1

Experts Exchange got blocked within minutes of me finding out about Google Block.

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"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Re:Yahoos by GameboyRMH · 2012-01-23 06:55 · Score: 1

Yep that was the first site I thought of when I saw news of the Google Block feature.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Yahoos by Saija · 2012-01-23 10:12 · Score: 1

An example?

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Slashdot ya no es que lo era! ;)

I found life in the clouds! by Troyusrex · 2012-01-23 03:32 · Score: 1

I was looking up today and say a bunny, a turtle and and man's face! That's WAY better evidence of life than " 'disk,' a 'black flap' and a 'scorpion'".

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2012-01-23 03:37 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I for one... by roc97007 · 2012-01-23 03:41 · Score: 1

...welcome our new disc shaped, black-flapped venusian scorpion masters.

...Too early?...

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Pareidolia by slb · 2012-01-23 03:43 · Score: 1

Yeah and there are canals and a giant face sculpture on Mars too. The guy is either suffering from pareidolia or drinking too much vodka.

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http://www.transparency.org

Re:Pareidolia by VortexCortex · 2012-01-23 04:42 · Score: 2

... The guy is either suffering from pareidolia or drinking too much vodka.
Can you say: FALSE DICHOTOMY!

read the article to the bottom by tverbeek · 2012-01-23 03:44 · Score: 1

Ksanfomaliti cautioned that the objects he wrote about seem to “emerge, fluctuate and disappear” in different photographs taken from a variety of vantage points.

Translation: They're tricks of the light or other optical illustions.

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http://alternatives.rzero.com/

Not unlike ... by fish_in_the_c · 2012-01-23 03:48 · Score: 1

The comments on these photo's sound very much like the pictures of the monster at Lock Ness.
perhaps the same phenomena underlies the 'realty' of both sets of creatures.

--
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.

Suppose . . . by NicknamesAreStupid · 2012-01-23 03:53 · Score: 1

. . . he's right. What if there is life on Venus, but unlike ours? What if there is a lot of it? Would we, perhaps, be better off ignoring it? Seriously, are we ready for such a discovery? It may sound silly, but I think there is a large segment of the human population who couldn't deal with it.

Re:Suppose . . . by Lucas123 · 2012-01-23 04:08 · Score: 2

Especially if they were scorpions that could withstand 900 degree temperatures and 1,508lbs of pressure. I'd believe we should defer to the old adage: "let sleeping scorpions lie".
Re:Suppose . . . by mcgrew · 2012-01-23 09:51 · Score: 1

What if there is life on Venus, but unlike ours?
There may well be some form of extremophile life (they would have to be extremophiles there), but it's incredibly unlikely that any life anywhere will in any way resemble earth life, especially in a place as hot and with as much pressure as Venus.
Would we, perhaps, be better off ignoring it?
Why would ignorance ever be preferable to knowlege?
Seriously, are we ready for such a discovery?
If we're not, we never will be.
It may sound silly, but I think there is a large segment of the human population who couldn't deal with it.

Name any one thing, anything at all, and there's a large segment of the population that can't deal with it.

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Free Martian Whores!

Pics or GTFO! by bookon · 2012-01-23 03:55 · Score: 1

Seriously, this is a non story without pics.

Leonid Whatshisname by sirdude · 2012-01-23 03:56 · Score: 1

While looking for more information about this Leonid guy, I came across this reference:

The doctor in Physics and Mathematics from Institute of Space Investigations of the Russian Academy of Sciences Leonid Ksanfomaliti has come to an analogous conclusion: "I think, such could take place only under the influence of a radial instrument of a high technological level. Something like the future high-power laser. And for "artists" the lack of energy was not" - he has told at recent scientific conference "Horizons of astronomy: search of extraterrestrial civilisations" which was in the Special astrophysical observatory of Russian Academy of Sciences. L. Ksanfomaliti has calculated: the laser has been established at the altitude about 40 km above the ground.

hmm.

Here's a Single Picture by eldavojohn · 2012-01-23 03:56 · Score: 4, Informative

No pictures were included, so how can we form our own, uneducated, opinions???

This article from Ria Novosti has one picture with attributions to the scientist and journal. I'm not sure what you're looking at but I am guessing that the object outside of the pod is not a device of theirs -- which leads to a lot of speculation and conjecture. I guess I don't know enough about their sensors/cameras that they were using in 1982 to say whether or not this was some sort of aberration or malfunction of the camera due to extreme temperatures. But that's about the best uneducated opinion I can offer you.

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My work here is dung.

Re:Here's a Single Picture by eldavojohn · 2012-01-23 04:13 · Score: 5, Informative

Scratch that, I just read some lengthy forums that say that's a shattered lens cap. Here's another panorama with said lens cap pieces. The Daily Mail offers this strange image as evidence ... but that's The Daily Mail so take it with a grain of salt. If that is what all the fuss is about, I'm a little angry I just wasted this much time. Personally I'd assume my camera is experiencing an anomaly due to it being 867 degrees Fahrenheit outside ...

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My work here is dung.
Re:Here's a Single Picture by sheepe2004 · 2012-01-23 05:50 · Score: 1

I love how the Daily Mail article ends with an entirely relevant picture of "Mekon, ruler of Venus" from a comic book shouting "DESTROY DAN DARE!".

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http://compsoc.man.ac.uk/~shep/
Re:Here's a Single Picture by mbone · 2012-01-23 07:18 · Score: 1

That's a lens cap. On Venera 14 the soil probe actually came down on top of the lens cap, ruining the measurements. You can see that here if you enlarge the left image for V. 14.
This is all well known, and I assume that the scientist was talking about something else. If not, he deserves ridicule.

Independently evolved life would be different by Theovon · 2012-01-23 04:03 · Score: 1

I suppose there are some chances that some alien life would superficially resemble life on earth. But not likely. Any significant similarity would be more easily explained by a common ancestor. If there is no common ancestor, all bets are off, and since the mutation and selection pressures on another world would be completely different, the resulting life forms would be completely different. Sure, it's more likely than not that they'd be made of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, etc., and it's likely (because it's such a huge advantage) that they'd use something LIKE DNA to encode information, but it's not necessarily the case that they would use the same chemicals.

Re:Independently evolved life would be different by Sentrion · 2012-01-23 05:11 · Score: 1

I think it is a huge stretch to consider any of the objects identified in the images as signs of life. That said, if "life" tends to "happen" when the same common universal chemicals come together under similar conditions, then the result is that carbon-based life throughout the universe may be recognizable and comparable to similar creatures on our own planet.
Different environments, especially given the extreme differences in temperature, pressure, and availability of resources such as water, will likely yield very different results, presuming it is possible. But it would not be beyond reasonable to find on a hot, dry, sandy, and stony surface a creature that resembles a scorpion, which on earth is one of the most adapted species to thrive in the hot, dry deserts of our own planet. Case in point, when mammals evolve into sea dwelling creatures, they begin to resemble fish more than mammals (seals spending a lot of time in the water and having "fins" and whales spending all of their time in the water and having streamlined fish-like body shapes with more fish-like fins than seals). Likewise, penguins, as they require special ability to perform well under the surface, do not fly in the air, but rather their wings and webbed feet have adapted to perform like fins.

Saw a scorpian? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2012-01-23 04:03 · Score: 1

Come on guys, I have seen clouds shapped like a lion, like a baby etc. The ancient astronomers have seen a hunter, a scorpion, a bull, a big bear, a small bear, a girl, a lion etc etc for a long time in the skys with nothing more than a few pin pricks of light. When you have the imagination, you can see anything.

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sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact

Re:Saw a scorpian? by canajin56 · 2012-01-23 04:30 · Score: 1

The key part isn't what shape it had, but that it kept its shape (with slight changes) over time and over multiple viewing angles, before leaving the area again. But the pictures are so grainy that I don't know that I would buy that bit, either. It certainly doesn't look scorpionish to me.

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ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
Re:Saw a scorpian? by VortexCortex · 2012-01-23 04:58 · Score: 1

The ancient astronomers have seen a hunter, a scorpion, a bull, a big bear, a small bear, a girl, a lion etc etc for a long time in the skys with nothing more than a few pin pricks of light. When you have the imagination, you can see anything.
Your puny human vision requires to to have imagination, and when your sleep cycle scrubs your short term memory, committing important thoughts to longer term storage by way of randomized synapse firing & strengthening you DO "see anything". When conscious what you see as pins' prickings I see as enormous gravity furnaces that warp the very essence of the Universe and forge new stable configurations of energy (matter). Reality is stranger than fiction.
You don't even want to know what's going on inside your "atoms"!
When you start from the top and peer downwards you find a very deep rabbit hole: 4 Elements, No - Atoms, no - Quarks, no - Quantum Particles & Waves, no - there's more, deeper and deeper.... It's like the infantile mind trying but failing to understand fractions, or reveling at and finding names for each new vibration of sound.

Re:Not true by rubycodez · 2012-01-23 04:17 · Score: 1

only martian perverts use the black flap sex toy. get back the in the closet, you freak

a 'disk,' a 'black flap' and a 'scorpion.' by mcgrew · 2012-01-23 04:18 · Score: 1

Ksanfomaliti says the Russian photographs depict objects resembling a 'disk,' a 'black flap' and a 'scorpion.'"

Yeah, and NASA took photos of what appeared to be a stature of a human head on Mars, which was actually just a trick of shadow and light.

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Free Martian Whores!

"Greenhoue effect" by scorp1us · 2012-01-23 04:20 · Score: 2, Informative

I wish people would stop saying "greenhouse effect" caused the heating. It's simply not true. It is the atmospheric density and proximity to the sun which makes it so hot.

Venus: 93 bar surface pressure, 96.5% CO2, 460C surface temp
Mars 0.00636 bar surface pressure, 95.3% CO2, -63C surface temp

What's responsible for the heating?

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Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 04:30 · Score: 4, Informative

Which is exactly what a greenhouse effect is, moron.
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Black.Shuck · 2012-01-23 04:36 · Score: 1

What's responsible for the heating?
Erm, homosexuals?
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Sockatume · 2012-01-23 04:36 · Score: 4, Informative

The sun is responsible for the heating. The dense atmosphere is responsible for keeping the heat in. Like, y'know, a greenhouse.
Or did you think that the atmosphere was dense enough to undergo nuclear fusion and release heat, or something?

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by SecurityGuy · 2012-01-23 05:09 · Score: 1

The Sun is responsible for the heating. The atmosphere is responsible for keeping the heat in. Which is called....the greenhouse effect!
It's also why Venus is hotter than a much closer Mercury, and why Venus doesn't have a hot and cold side in spite of rotating rather slowly.
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Sockatume · 2012-01-23 05:12 · Score: 1

Jinx.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by randomsearch · 2012-01-23 05:30 · Score: 1

Fair point, although just because the difference in CO2 levels is numerically small wouldn't exclude the possibility that it was that small CO2 different outweighing the effects of large differences in other variables.
RS
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Cutriss · 2012-01-23 05:35 · Score: 1

"Greenhoue effect" by scorpius (235526)"

This is exactly the sort of dismissive post I would expect to see from one of Venus' scorpion overlords!

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"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by SecurityGuy · 2012-01-23 05:45 · Score: 2

The difference is huge. The percentages are similar, but the quantity of CO2 a photon goes through on the way to the surface of Venus is incredibly higher than the quantity of CO2 a photon goes through on the way to the surface of Mars. That pressure bit matters a lot.
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 07:36 · Score: 1

Venus would be a hot house even if the co2 was replaced by a gas that has no greenhouse effects.
So you're admitting that CO2 has a greenhouse effect, while denying that it has a greenhouse effect (on Venus).
Ar the physics of water soaking into a grit different in your kitchen?
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Xyrus · 2012-01-23 07:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

The greenhouse effect IS responsible for the high temperatures. This is why the temperature stays pretty much the same even on the dark side of the planet. Solar radiation comes in but radiates away very slowly. This is demonstrated by the night side temperatures, which are pretty much the same as the day side temperatures. This is also verified by the stratospheric temperature difference from the surface (the stratosphere is very cold, since little heat is escaping from the troposphere).
Density plays a part because it further reduces the rate of heat escaping. However, it is the CO2 gas that is key. An atmosphere of 95% Nitrogen, for example, would not be nearly as scorching and given the slow rotational rate, the night side of the planet would be bone chilling cold. Our own atmosphere is mostly nitrogen and oxygen, and without the various greenhouse gases (water vapor, CO2, methane, etc.) our planet would be a block of ice.

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~X~
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-23 08:21 · Score: 1

Absolutely incorrect. If all that CO2 were replaced with nitrogen, Venus would be a lot cooler (as someone notes below). The gas does make a difference. It's sad to see you moderated informative.
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by mbone · 2012-01-23 08:45 · Score: 2

Scientifically, the trapping of the solar heat on Venus is caused by what is called a greenhouse effect (i.e., the trapping of outbound IR radiation), exactly the same in nature as the greenhouse effect on Earth, but much more efficient due to the considerably thicker atmosphere and different composition of Venus' atmosphere. This has been known since Mariner 2, in 1962.
The existence and importance of greenhouse effects for the Earth, Mars and Venus have all been verified for decades. There is absolutely no scientific controversy about that, not even of the ginned up sort favored by oil billionaires. It's the relationship between the greenhouse effect and terrestrial climate change that is controversial, although that is largely of the ginned up sort (i.e., not really in the scientific community), at least since the 1980's.
And, yes, the atmospheric scientists know that real greenhouses rely on the trapping of convection, not the trapping of IR. It's a label.
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by jpvlsmv · 2012-01-23 09:19 · Score: 1

Al Gore is responsible for the heating. He invented Global Warming.
--Joe
Re:"Greenhoue effect" by Sockatume · 2012-01-23 21:21 · Score: 2

the higher pressure means higher temperatures. PV=T and all that regardless of gaseous makeup.
Yes, if you compress a gas its temperature will increase. However it will then lose that heat. Making a gas dense doesn't magically allow it to maintain an elevated temperature.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?

Speeking of imagination by sgt+scrub · 2012-01-23 04:25 · Score: 2

I always wondered how long you could keep a baloon aloft on Venus. I would think you would be able to use thermal electric effect (peltier/stirling engine) of altitude vs surface heat to create energy and use the acidic clouds to maintain a lighter than CO2 gas for the baloon -- like a CO2 to SO2 converter or something.

--
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.

Re:Speeking of imagination by mbone · 2012-01-23 07:11 · Score: 1

The French-Soviet Vega balloons transmitted about 46 hours, until the battery power went out.
I see no reason why, with a little reserve gas, a trapped gas balloon couldn't be kept aloft for months.
Re:Speeking of imagination by sgt+scrub · 2012-01-23 07:59 · Score: 1

Considering the sustainablilty issues the space station needed to overcome to become plausible; maintaining an orbit, resistence to its environment, ability to be resupplied, etc... the engineering feats are not much different for a long term station in the outer atmosphere on Venus. Think about something inverse to the Venus environment like a station near the the ocean floor; high pressure atmosphere, large tempature differences. There is so much research with practicle applications to be garnered from space, deep sea, science; but, it doesn't increase the size of a man's penis or grow hair so... [insert waisted breath statement here].

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Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.

Wear a hard hat by noh8rz2 · 2012-01-23 04:26 · Score: 2

Exciting news for Russia, but I hope it doesn't encourage them to launch a probe to investigate the Planet. If so, stay indoors or wear a hard hat!

Looking for the actual pictures? by aglider · 2012-01-23 04:27 · Score: 4, Informative

Look here

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.

Re:Looking for the actual pictures? by aglider · 2012-01-23 04:30 · Score: 1

And here too.

--
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.

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And here I thought... by daveatneowindotnet · 2012-01-23 04:48 · Score: 1

...that someone found and interesting chemical compound is the atmosphere or some other evidence of microscopic life on Venus, instead this guy claims he sees a "black flap" in pictures from the 80's. The article itself doesn't even have pictures with red circles around these flying magic aliens for me to gawk at and laugh about. I'm not only questioning Slashdot, but the original story, why would anyone care?

Pareidolia by Thuktun · 2012-01-23 05:11 · Score: 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

First you must DISPROVE the NULL hypothesis by karlandtanya · 2012-01-23 05:33 · Score: 1

FTA:
“What if we forget about the current theories about the non-existence of life on Venus?”

Then you're not doing science.

--
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

Men are from Mars by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-01-23 05:34 · Score: 1

OLD NEWS!

Of course there is life on Venus. I remember from my University days that this research was done a long time ago and one scientist discovered that Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch

Re:Men are from Mars by Thuktun · 2012-01-23 10:31 · Score: 1

OLD NEWS!
Of course there is life on Venus. I remember from my University days that this research was done a long time ago and one scientist discovered that Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus
For certain values of "science"...

I see Jesus's face! by Sarusa · 2012-01-23 06:13 · Score: 1

This guy is totally right. And there's the Virgin Mary.

Re:Not true by viperidaenz · 2012-01-23 06:20 · Score: 1

Is that you Marvin?

I must have the wrong site by WindBourne · 2012-01-23 06:57 · Score: 1

Stuff like this is more like National Enquirer, Fox news and pravda, than /.

--
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

Here are the pictures by mbone · 2012-01-23 07:06 · Score: 1

Here are the pictures. Now, they are an extraordinary accomplishment, but I sure don't see any signs of life (except for the bits ejected from the spacecraft, like the camera covers). You can look (and judge) for yourself.

On the menu by macraig · 2012-01-23 07:18 · Score: 1

Call me again when I can find these critters on the menu at Black Angus and Denny's. With ET's the video-or-it-hasn't-happened test isn't sufficient... it's gotta be on a menu somewhere. If I can't eat it, it doesn't exist! /sarcasm

Link to original paper by mbone · 2012-01-23 07:21 · Score: 1

If someone can provide a link to the paper itself, I would appreciate it. (I can read Russian.)

Kyoot? by Hartree · 2012-01-23 07:26 · Score: 1

"What in god's name does a "black flap" look like?"

A black flapper?

How about:
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqu6s0pNp31qeq7tpo1_500.jpg

I'd hit it. ;)

What, no train? by miltonw · 2012-01-23 07:34 · Score: 1

L. Ron Hubbard on Venus.

Lol by lightknight · 2012-01-23 07:44 · Score: 1

Did it happen to look like this? http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2007/138/7/a/Brotherhood_of_NOD_wallpaper_by_NeoApocalypse.jpg

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I am John Hurt.

This does look like an alien... by end15 · 2012-01-23 08:01 · Score: 1

Found a picture and yeah that looks like an alien, or some kind of new phenomenon for certain:

http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/1155981.jpg

http://andrzej.dabrowka.com/Gamma1.jpg

I hope there are more on Mercury, Mars, Jupiter's moons, Saturn's moons, and Pluto. ;-)

--
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

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Terrestrial type life at altitude by mbone · 2012-01-23 08:33 · Score: 1

I by no means see terrestrial type life on Venus as being impossible or ruled out by existing data. In the regions between 40 and 60 km above the surface, the conditions are roughly Earth like, and a biosphere could presumably be present (as there is a biosphere in the clouds here on Earth. We know that there are aerosols at those levels (i.e., microbe sized droplets), although we don't really know much about them, and finally we know that the atmosphere is out of chemical equilibrium, which is generally regarded as a sign of biological activity.

There have been proposals to send spacecraft to study this further, but they have gotten nowhere, at least at NASA.

I bet the objects were video artifacts ... by jerryjnormandin · 2012-01-23 09:37 · Score: 1

I bet the objects observed were "video artifacts" generated by extreme heat exposure to the camera. Venus surface is damn hot! 895 degrees F! I really the the camera was baking in the heat. You need more data points than just visual to make a claim like that.

Different from life on your anus how? by DontScotty · 2012-01-23 10:50 · Score: 1

Different from life on your anus how?

Is it a big deal because it is further to reach?

Re: Huh? by LanceUppercut · 2012-01-23 11:07 · Score: 1

The first photos and videos from Venus, as well as the first TV picture from another planet in the history of mankind are quite extraordinary.

Careful! American butthurt possible!!! by LanceUppercut · 2012-01-23 11:14 · Score: 1

The facts of first video from another planet in the history of mankind usually induce immense butthurt in "patriotic" Americans, not even mentioning that publishing something like that can lead to serious problems with federal censorship watchdogs. Sing the "Starts and stripes" 11 times and eat two pairs of US-flag-colored underpants to cleanse yourself of your sins!

Howard the Duck will save us! by Riskable · 2012-01-24 01:31 · Score: 1

Not to worry, Howard the Duck will save us from any would-be scorpion overlords.

--
-Riskable
"Those who choose proprietary software will pay for their decision!"

what about by surd1618 · 2012-01-24 01:57 · Score: 1

Giant babies? Deceased wives?

2010 has come late by Animakitty · 2012-01-24 06:03 · Score: 1

I would love to know how fast any of these objects were supposedly moving, but I know from experience it's difficult to get Russians to reveal that information. "HOW FAST?!"

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Russian Scientist Claims Signs of Life Spotted On Venus

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