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Canonical Pulls Kubuntu Personnel Funding
LinuxScribe writes "An announcement on the Kubuntu-devel mailing list tells the sad story: Canonical is pulling funding for in-house developers to work on the KDE-based Kubuntu flavor. Canonical now seems committed to its single vision of a GNOME-based Unity as a desktop and other Ubuntu flavors will now have to rely on community support and some infrastructure from Canonical."
When you've shot yourself in both legs... you're out of legs... Nice going Canonical.
From what I remember from Kubuntu, most of their tweaks to KDE just make it inferior to the vanilla version (for instance: you need to click the tabs in the launcher menu instead of just mousing over them, which is unpleasant). Is there any reason to use Kubuntu instead of just about any other KDE based distro?
As a Linux user, I think this is a great business move on the part of canonical.. It is very important that we have choice software... but for Linux to success, the companies backing need to have a focus.
Every time the subject of Ubuntu comes up on Slashdot I see a slew of comments complaining about how bad Unity is and what they've done to Gnome and how they're jumping ship for Mint I think "OK, so why not just use Kubuntu instead?", but now they've dropping funding for Kubuntu it looks like even more people will be moving over to Mint too.
I only update to the LTS versions of Kubuntu but if Precise is going to be the last one then why bother? Mint 12 came out a few days ago so maybe I'll just move over to that instead.
Summation 2
Just when I had settled on Kubuntu as my distribution after Unity and Gnome 3 ruined most of the others. Still, I've been using Lubuntu too and that is based on Ubuntu but nothing to do with Canonical and it's pretty good. Kubuntu could even become stronger and better for being cast loose. The more I think about it the more I think that this is definitely good for Kubuntu and possibly good for Canonical.
I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
I'm not really sure that Unity is a tablet UI. They've replaced a menu with a search box, do tablet UIs normally involve more typing and less pointing?
It does make business sense to drop financial support for Kubuntu when you think about it. Ubuntu has been around for 7 years and Canonical still has yet to make a profit, so the purse strings undoubtedly have to be tightened so that the focus of attention can be put towards things that are more likely to succeed. It's not like they took Kubuntu seriously anyway - it was generally one of the least polished KDE distros available (though it has been getting better).
Having said that I think Ubuntu is mostly doomed anyway - even with this new tablet/TV angle Shuttleworth wants to get into, the fact he hasn't managed to expand Ubuntu's marketshare via OEMs preinstalling it on machines (with some rare exceptions) kinda tells me he is either really optimistic or really stupid. Red Hat gave up on the desktop and, but then again Red Hat never had Unity and disappearing global menus. Yeah, I'm sure that's what's gonna fix things to make Linux more appealing for mainstream users. :)
To all newcomers - people here are very close-minded and can't handle complaints about Linux. Keep this in mind.
typing on an onscreen keyboard is easier to find stuff vs multiple menus layers if you've got a low resolution screen with a finger sized pointer.
In that context Unity is a perfectly acceptable UI for touch screen devices. Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible interface for traditional keyboard/mouse input.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
The New Ubuntu is becoming increasingly less flexible. In Lucid 10.04, you could place the gnome-panels anywhere you wished. You could add icons and and even short cuts to scripts to the panel, and there were a whole bunch of panel applets that you could add.
Now, Ubuntu's new layout with a top panel and left launcher bar is so inflexible that you're stuck with what they give you. You could go with installing classic gnome shell, and/or install ccsm and turn unity off..... but if you do, look out, because when you copy files, don't even dare minimize the File Operations Dialogue, coz it will be gone forever. It;s almost as though Ubuntu punishes you for not using the Unity interface. Oh and forget mentioning this in any of their forums, because if you even imply that you don't like unity, prepare for some snooty feedback.
But the engine below the interface is pretty fantastic. I fell in love with Ubuntu from Lucid, because everything worked, and it was so flexible and customizable, and that suited my indecisive personality... now things are very mac-like... where everything works perfectly, but sort of comes with a sticker saying, don't change it too much, coz it's perfect the way it is!!
Drop support for Ubuntu?
They already come out with a new version every 6 months. The two different desktop environments was not necessary. And it's not like KDE stops to exist now. It's just that the newbies who are clueless will face less options.
Oh, just great. So where to now? Stick with Kubuntu, move to Debian Unstable, or OpenSUSE? Since everybody seems to concur that Kubuntu's KDE is pretty bad, which one's actually better? I'd welcome suggestions.
I liked Ubuntu up until after 10.04. Now it's got some kind of tablet/smart phone infection that I wish it could get a shot for so it'd go back to the way it was. The worst part is it spread outside of Ubuntu in to Gnome. Well if Kubuntu doesn't float for lack of funding then there's always Xubuntu or Lubuntu. If those go then Mint will be the real shining star even more then it already is.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Who here doesn't install a *box WM anyway?
My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
Agreed.
While Ubuntu might have some issues that people are going to moan loudly about, remember, it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere, once they're accustomed to it, they can migrate out to other options if they feel they want to. Funding a parallel-but-different version is just encouraging the confusion. If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.
If we want cohesive desktop/apps then this is a reasonable move to make.
(I'm no fan of Ubuntu Unity, but I still use Ubuntu + Fluxbox instead :) )
But that's where part of the problem is, in recent years there was virtually no marketing for Kubuntu, for quite a while there is no more reference to the project on Ubuntu's front page
As a desktop KDE is far more integrated than Gnome ever was and Unity will still be based on this disjointed approach.
Unity is a high stakes experiment by Mark Shuttleworth and is it that now he sees more and more users go over to the KDE desktop he feels his experiment is threatened?
Regardless, KDE development is not depending on Canonical and the Canonical infrastructure will still be available so we can continue to enjoy this very good distribution.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for KDE. Sure it'll continue to be developed for years to come but without major backing it'll probably fade away like a lot of projects do. It's a shame, I feel KDE had much more to offer than Gnome but long term there could be only one winner and all the major players picked Gnome. Over all I think this is probably a good thing for Linux though, the war between Gnome and KDE has been a huge waste of resources and has massively hurt Linux adoption on the desktop. I really look forward to the day when the Linux desktop just works even if that means it's Gnome based.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
I went back to raw Debian. Most distos tell me rails 3 doesnt exist. debian says chrome & firefox doesnt exist
For me, they failed not having tcsh and rubygems.
If they had redesigned the menu instead, they could have required far less areas to press than a onscreen keyboard requires for its keys...
Not going to write an essay on it, but Unity seems not particular well-adapted for either touchscreen OR desktop use.
Why not give Xubuntu a shot? Might be less of a headache. I just migrated to it from Mandriva.
Depending on how you define usable. If your definition is like that of most people - then I really do not understand why you are saying what you are saying. You can use xfce4, for example, and fluxbox, and a couple of others.
I just switched to kubuntu a few weeks back because of the state they put ubuntu in. I hate the new interface as its way too faffy. How am I supposed to advocate that for an OS? Now this!! :(
looking for a new home.
It seems that Canonical has the stategy to exclusively target Noobs and people who use Linux for nothing more than using a browser. Unity and Co is absolutely unfit for professional or productive work.
It is time to change the distro in order to strengthen strategies that take care of people who need Linux to get some work done.
For me, Ubuntu stops existing right now. Oh the whole, I have had less breakage with Debian Sid, supposedly "unstable", and Canonical has just managed to push me over the tipping point: I'm going back to Debian (testing) on my primary machine as I should have done months ago. I am awfully tired of having to put up with Gnome bad idea of the week bogosity while waiting for Ubuntu to fix their broken, untested KDE packaging.
It stopped being amusing a long time ago. There is one reason, and one reason only that there is Ubuntu on this workstation: it came that way. Henceforth, Ubuntu will just be a way to establish which drivers (if any) the OEM configured, then *wipe* *wipe* install, install, there we go, blessed relief, it's not a hobby project any more.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
While Ubuntu might have some issues that people are going to moan loudly about, remember, it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere...
I assure you that for most people, being brought into Gnome is just going to send them right back to Windows.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Since KDE 4.x, Kubuntu has been useless and even before that, there were way too many problems with default installation. There are other very good distributions that run KDE very well, openSUSE is one of those.
What compelling reason anyone has to use Ubuntu over Debian anymore? It used to be because the former was supposedly more user friendly, but that doesn't seem like a compelling argument nowadays when even Debian has a GUI install and autodetects most stuff.
They certainly don't require hover events to get to UI elements, and Unity does in at least two situations (taskbar, and top menu).
Definitely not a tablet UI (yet). It was started as a small screen (netbook UI), which it's pretty decent for. I suspect it will be a decent full computer on a tablet UI, but never a great one (as it will not be tablet through and through).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
I've got dozens of anecdotal data points that say otherwise... just like everyone else.
The discussion is about the problem of diluted consistency rather than that of actual effectiveness of the opted path. We can discuss that for eons with pointless non-results.
New interfaces aren't as scary if people have others around them experienced in the same thing to fall back on, and that's the idea, instead of "Hey Fred, I've got a problem with KDE" - "Oh hell, I don't know that, I use Unity" etc... else WinCE phones would possibly be the dominant force in the smart-phone market, since everyone knows Windows.
Yet still they create a distro targeted excusively against people who are unable to edit configuration files, while simultaneously being almost unusable once you need to do something out-of-the-highway like compiling and installing some software outside their repos.
Having been a Linux newbie myself once, my first introduction to a Linux desktop was with KDE on Redhat. It was so hugely overcomplicated and kludgy that *it* sent me straight back to Windows. Eventually I tried Gnome and haven't looked back. I've since set up my parents on two Ubuntu boxes running Gnome, and I was surprised to hear "this feels just like Windows, only faster".
Me too. I think the Kubuntu developers did some great work pushing the envelope on what KDE can do on the desktop and netbook, and a lot of their work has appeared upstream. Kudos to Jonathan Riddell and the other Kubuntu devs! Personally, though, I needed stability more than shiny new features so I switched to Debian (ironically) unstable. Not only does it offer a more stable desktop experience with KDE 4.6 than does Kubuntu, but because its a rolling release distribution the packages are usually fresher than the latest Ubuntu release and I haven't had to reinstall in over a year. Hopefully now we will have more manpower to work on stable, vanilla KDE 4.7 and 4.8 on Debian.
As for Ubuntu, I now have zero reasons to install it.
I like Ubuntu because it's frequently updated, and seems to be where the "zeitgeist" of Linux development is living these days.
But I don't like Unity. How do I get Ubuntu with the original Desktop?
And while I'm at it, how about a (local storage) replacement for Evolution, since the zeitgeist evidently abandoned it years ago?
--
make install -not war
What's the email/calendar/contacts(/memos) app on Mint? Is it better than Ubunutu Evolution?
--
make install -not war
That is true, why do they not package software like xv and xmms like Fedora do? And what happened to the old Electric Eyes image viewer. Try compiling that nowadays.
liberare massarum ex ignorantia, clausa descendit molestie.
It was so hugely overcomplicated and kludgy that *it* sent me straight back to Windows.
Whoa, how long ago was that?
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
While Ubuntu might have some issues that people are going to moan loudly about, remember, it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere, once they're accustomed to it, they can migrate out to other options if they feel they want to. Funding a parallel-but-different version is just encouraging the confusion. If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.
If Ubuntu's purpose is to bring in new people, wouldn't the wisest choice be to make the interface as similar to the "hated-but-known" Windows interface? Because unity is a total mindblast to anyone who has spent the better part of their careers working in windows. I actually see it as pushing people back to Windows because people don't want to have to learn a new operating system AND a new gui all at the same time.
It's time to go back to Slackware.
You always know who to blame. Yourself.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
"Canonical wants to treat Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with infrastructure."
... it's hard to lose financial support, but I have to say Kubuntu was never a good example of KDE any time I tried it over the years. Ubuntu for a good Gnome distro, you bet, but Kubuntu never managed parity. And I like KDE.
Lubuntu OTOH is a great option for people who want the classic win95 GUI that Gnome has turned away from, without being a lightweight so stripped it's reliant on CLI. It shows what a success a community project can put out on Canonical infrastructure.
Kubuntu is joining the ranks of secondary but respectable projects. They can still do well there, and I hope they do.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=461309 shows why xmms was kicked out of debian. Presumablly ubuntu just followed them. Not sure about the others.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Perhaps Unity is the perfect fit for 'B' Ark inhabitants. Doesn't seem like a complete community on some level, though. Shuttleworth should bone up on his Hitchhiker's Guide.
Bubuntu: Bathtub Ubuntu.
1. There are many other Ubuntu derivatives that as far as I know never had direct support from Canonical. Kubuntu is not going to disappear just because it is now at the same level as Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Lubuntu and other projects.
2. Kubuntu itself is an installer, KDE customizations and a set of dependencies. As long as Canonical (or anyone) supports KDE packages, it is at the same level of "legitimacy" as KDE support in Debian.
3. Oh, it's anti-Linux propaganda worker Brian Proffitt again. Figures.
4. Canonical made a really bad move with Unity that was followed with a worse move by Gnome. This leaves KDE as the best desktop environment currently supported by developers.
5. Kubuntu remains the only Ubuntu-derived distribution that supports sane window management, and can be reasonably customized (with Compiz instead of kwin). It's also the best desktop Linux distribution that currently exists.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Perusing this thread will tell anyone why Linux is not a significant player in the OS universe. Too much chaos, to many sharp opinions, jingoism... in the end, all that keeps Linux from being a serious contender beyond cell phones (where it is invisible) and scientists (who have certain needs).
There will never *be* a "Year of Linux".
Yet I'll keep on using customized versions of Linux for my own development needs, just like my wife uses odd and exotic materials media for her artwork. Linux/GNU/etc is an artist's tool, but it will never be mainstream or popular. Deal with it, be glad you have it, and quit bashing each other over the head.
All about me
Unfortunately, this includes me for the time being.
My experiences with uBuntu were a disaster. Some were upgrade problems, then driver support changed, semi-bricking one machine, etc etc.
I also never understood why I couldn't simply update Firefox, I kept getting error messages about newer versions of ____ file necessary. Sorry, Windows "just updates stuff".
When next I feel like foraging into linux land, maybe it will be Mint, or something, and I've been quietly itching to try Xfce or something as the manager.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.
The problem for Linux isn't that newcomers are returning to Windows. Most don't hate the OS and have shown no intention or desire to abandon it. The rest see the choice as between the Mac and Windows.
That's sad news, who knows if Conical could have been useful for Ubuntu.
My opinion of the first release of Unity on Ubuntu was absolutely no, it is not a tablet/notepad UI.
It took up a lot of space, and it was horizontal space as well. On small screens Unity is not only close to useless like normal, but has the additional misfortune of being far to much in the way of other running apps.
And yes, simply because it is searched based it does not really work for any set up, but most of all a tablet.
Look at the iPad, that is the general idea when you are talking for in a tablet GUI.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I think the arrogant GNOME developers are the only ones to blame here. ... gnome hell.
If Canonical hadn't developed unity then the choice would be
xv is shareware, something weird in the Linux universe. Hasn't been updated in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.
xmms was abandoned for xmms2, which was a big mistake in my mind. Yeah, it became client-server, but I had problems adding my collection to it. It'd import a certain amount, then choke and die. I stick with the classic xmms, it still works. I update my list with a simple shell script I knocked out in like 5 minutes that automatically finds all my MP3s & sorts them out. Takes less than a minute.
I don't use KDE or GNOME, I use Fluxbox. I left Fedora for Ubuntu with the Dapper release, having been a hardcore RedHat fan since 3.0.3. RedHat/Fedora just got to be a pain in the ass to update when I made the switch. You couldn't really update it anymore, you had to pretty much wipe and reinstall, which they recommended. KDE 3.x was good, so was GNOME 2.x. I've tried Unity, KDE, ICWM, AfterStep, FVWM2, Blackbox, e17, just about everything out there, coming back to Fluxbox every time. I haven't much cared what's under the hood in ages, and yeah, some stuff I still compile by hand. That list is getting smaller and smaller all the time. I don't have much problems installing new stuff cause I know how to use apt-get from the command line. Apt-get is what got me interested in Debian-derived distros. It seems to Just Work for me.
Distros I've tried? I started out on SLS, used Slack, went RedHat/Fedora, played with Mandrake (for a couple customers' machines), SuSE, Debian back in the day, Ubuntu. Now I'm thinking, time to check out Mint?
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
I'm also dumping Ubuntu after dealing with the horrible horrible Unity/Gnome3 experience. I'll go use Scientific Linux or something where they don't needlessly change the desktop environment to something shitty just because they think it looks cool.
"sometimes he felt that his whole life was a dream, and he wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They broke even almost 3 years ago dude.
People tend to forget that Canonical is a company. Focusing on Unity makes perfect sense from a business perspective as they target the mobile device market.
It was so hugely overcomplicated and kludgy that *it* sent me straight back to Windows.
Whoa, how long ago was that?
Given that he said Redhat and not Fedora, I'm guessing at least a decade ago (Fedora came out in late 2003).
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Canonical seems more and more determined to abandon any loyalty to its users. They should not be surprised when users reciprocate.
...ro [Limited amount of chars in the title, thank you so much, /.!]
And how we have all had our regular switching-your-distro-experiences over the last 10 to 15 years!
And how we were proud to have found the latest and greatest - multiple times!
Does anyone of you waste a second of thought on us; us who try to actually make it the "year of the Linux desktop" by rolling a distro and a DE out to a multitude of users?
Users who give a toss about new distros and yet new DE? Users who would love to stick to their distro and DE for the rest of their lives?
No wonder about this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 It is mostly self-inflicted.
It does make business sense to drop financial support for Kubuntu when you think about it. Ubuntu has been around for 7 years and Canonical still has yet to make a profit, so the purse strings undoubtedly have to be tightened so that the focus of attention can be put towards things that are more likely to succeed. It's not like they took Kubuntu seriously anyway - it was generally one of the least polished KDE distros available (though it has been getting better).
An alternative for Canonical would have been to put more effort into Kubuntu, then for those who truly dislike Unity, they could have provided a modern option other than the person going to a different distro.
The American automakers tried the same thing by dropping less profitable brands with a loyal following (for instance Oldsmobile, Saturn, etc.). GM figured they would just switch to Chevy. Instead they switched to Toyota, Honda and Lexus.
What Canonical needs to realize, from lessons learned in the auto industry, is that people very often have a good reason not to use the flagship product and dropping alternative choices does not mean they will switch to the flagship.
Ubuntu is supposed to mean "Humanity towards othersl." I guess it really means "Humanity towards others who agree with us."
No, because they're trying to establish themselves as something different and unique. Personally I like unity, after using it I don't see myself going back. It's much easier to just press the windows key type the program name and hit enter then navigating through the old gnome menu.
I also think it's much easier for novice computer users because it helps you get stuff done. I press the windows key and it brings up the unity panel I can type:
bittorrent - it shows vuze in the listing
image editor - gimp
office - libreoffice
email - evolution
internet - google chrome
It's genius, because this is what novice computer users want. It's not some muscle memory ui with the requirement of knowing what applications are called what. They've sat down and watched what computer users have problems with an addressed those problems.
And you haven't worked on Archlinux because?
Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
Sorry, Windows "just updates stuff".
What did you type into the command line? I tried typing "sudo pacman -Syu" but it said unrecognized command :(
I was looking forward to get updates to my games and Adobe suite and Internet explorer that way :(
Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
Actually, no, they didn't. It says they were closing in on that point - and since then, they've lost the Dell OEM netbook market.
The reason for the headcount is financial. If they were profitable, there'd really be no reason to cut one of the distro and help stem the flow of people abandoning Ubuntu. The fact is that every product they've announced since that article has been a dud - their music store (turns out it's not even theirs), their initial cloud offering (again not theirs - just a rebandged Amazon deal), the android execution environment (abandoned), tablets (abandoned), cell phones (abandoned), and the latest fiasco - UbuntuTV (code ripped from samygo.tv that anyone can use to install any linux distro on samsung tvs) - announced at the same show where Lenovo was showing off 55" Android Ice Cream Sandwich TVs with facial and speech recognition, remote with motion and multi-touch sensors, etc.
Expect more cuts.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
Me too. I think the Kubuntu developers did some great work pushing the envelope on what KDE can do on the desktop and netbook, and a lot of their work has appeared upstream. Kudos to Jonathan Riddell and the other Kubuntu devs! Personally, though, I needed stability more than shiny new features so I switched to Debian (ironically) unstable. Not only does it offer a more stable desktop experience with KDE 4.6 than does Kubuntu, but because its a rolling release distribution the packages are usually fresher than the latest Ubuntu release and I haven't had to reinstall in over a year. Hopefully now we will have more manpower to work on stable, vanilla KDE 4.7 and 4.8 on Debian.
As for Ubuntu, I now have zero reasons to install it.
You may have zero reasons to install, but it made a great deal of sense to many people I would point at a distro. Yes, KDE 4 is craploads better than Gnome [23]. Really.
However, as much as I love debian, I am not pointing raw users at a distro that expects the users to be able to deal with massive breakage when certain libs and so on are updated, and yes, that shit happens all the time in unstable. Hence the name. So now I have to point them at ubuntu, maybe suggest they install kubuntu-desktop and hope it isn't broken now, or just leave them with Unity.
Either way, debian unstable does not want a crapload of kubuntu refugees, trust me, no one will enjoy that.
What's the email/calendar/contacts(/memos) app on Mint? Is it better than Ubunutu Evolution?
Ubuntu Evolution? Do you perhaps mean Ximian or Novell Evolution?
Why wouldn't it be available on Mint? (side note: I don't use Mint)
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Personally I'm not interested in Unity. Gnome 3 has issues and KDE was my only option for Ubuntu. If dropping it makes sense for the company then I'm looking at switching to Mint. Too bad too. I rather enjoyed running Kubuntu and my family did also. I could build it but then I'm doing something i wanted to get away from in the first place. Sticking with Debian Linux distro's so Mint here we go!
Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
I have had a lot of time to deal with this, as I dropped ubunturd 3-4 years ago, as I found that every dist upgrade horribly broke the system, and that I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get my custom modifications and kernels not to cause dependency hells...
I'm personally very partial to ArchLinux for my daily driver laptop. Admittedly, I'm a bit of a tweaker and ricer on my laptop, but Arch is perfect for that...
You control every aspect, as you set the system up from the ground up, and it's packages are always more up to date than most distros. It's package management is faster by far than apt, and the PKGBUILD building system gives even the most novice compiler of software what they need to package any application not included in the distro, build any of thousands of premade PKGBUILDs in the AUR repository, and rebuild and modify anything that is already packaged by the distro via ABS.
My server, however, runs Debian testing - which is rock solid...if you need something that "just works," Debian is definitely the way to go.
In my mind, these are the only two distros that exist, as I've been unimpressed with any others, unless you count the TAILS livecd when using public computers, for paranoia's sake.
Baited: Right. It's waaaay better.
Well, not Windows 8 - because that will be that - right?
Maybe this thought will help all of us - and drive Linux DEs away from trying to do things people don't want ;-)
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-reasons-why-windows-8-will-be-dead-on-arrival/10275?tag=nl.e539
Canonical sees the tablet and smartphone as the leading way people deal with computers in the future. So they're concentrating their efforts not on the desktop, but on an opportunity that Microsoft doesn't currently dominate. It's an interesting strategy, and if it pays off, Canonical might even be able to use a market edge in tablets and smartphones to erode Window's dominance on desktops. Unfortunately, that means we have to put up with crappy experiments in interfaces while Gnome, Unity, and even Microsoft work this out.
Personally, I've switched from Unity to Gnome 3. It seems a little more stable right now and lets me work a little faster. These are modest improvements at best, and even with a bunch of Shell Extensions, I'm not satisfied.
Linux Mint just has the new Mint KDEt released. Mint also has made an agreement with Netrunner to co-develop KDE. So I reckon you'd be in good hands with Mint KDE. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1927
# touch universe # chmod +rwx universe #
It seems like there are people and orgs who would want an Ubuntu dist with the KDE. It also seems like the financila needs wouldn't be too great. They just have to take the KDE and make it work with Ubuntu.
How possible is it that Kubuntu can get alternate funding?
What is the best distro for the KDE?
Which of those is closest to Ubuntu?
Which of those is as easy/end user friendly as Ubuntu?
Slackware is Linux for grown-ups, people who know what they want and aren't afraid of learning new stuff.
The first time I installed Linux it was the Yggdrasil distro, back in 1995, but I only started using it for real in 1998, when I discovered Slackware.
Slackware had this wonderful quality that if something didn't work you could find someone who had written a simple how-to on that. If you weren't afraid of digging under the surface, it was the easiest system to hack.
Perhaps it's time to get back to Slackware now.
If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.
Alpha plus. You get it.
Ubuntu's...first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere, once they're accustomed to it, they can migrate out to other options
Well, no. Most people don't want to migrate to other options. It's a headache. It's not fun. It's risky. Pick your defense. But the thing is, there's got to be a really compelling reason for most people to want to go to the trouble to make a major shift in how they do things. It's hard enough to show the average user why they'd want to go to Linux. Once they get there, now you want them to migrate within the Linux realm?
A typical Slashdotter will see this as a good thing - plenty of choices, you can tweak and tune things to get what you want.
An average user will see this as a bad thing - too confusing, no clear direction, and what's going to be the next distro du jour? Forget it; it's not worth it.
I doubt it - if my understanding is correct, Mint takes something like Xubuntu, and then attaches Gnome2 or KDE separately. Mint KDE isn't a fork of Kubuntu the way that Mint is of Ubuntu.
If KDE goes away or becomes unmainted and I get stuck with GNOME I might even go back to Windows!
Windows is a far better interface than GNOME.
GNOME was just made because of a licensing issue, that has been resolved, and it should fold whatever good ideas (if any) it has into KDE and disappear, it has outlived its usefulness and now only serves to divide the user and developer communities and siphon off interest and support to an inferior platform!
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
1,) Ubuntu is completely free, and it's open source is available, and they contribute in spades upstream. That's really cool.
2.) Unlike Windows or OSX, Ubuntu always has and always will be a choice, not forced upon you. It's not democratic, but you can take the pieces you like and nix the rest.
3.) Ubuntu, like it or not, has made the biggest contribution to mainstream usage. I know all kinds of non-technical people that run Ubuntu. They don't run Arch, or Fedora, Debian - they run Ubuntu.
In short, I see a whole lot of unjustifiable bitching going on. You don't have to use Ubuntu, but to be honest you need to step back before you start throwing them to the wolves in spite of the past 6 years of enormous FLOSS contribution. Grow the hell up, Slashdot.
mov ah, 4ch
int 21h
My fault for not being sufficiently specific and adding in "If they so wanted to [migrate]" as opposed to "they should then migrate". I for one certainly am not migrating to anything else, hell and I started with Slackware 3.0 :)
If you have to use Linux, go w/ Mint. If you can go w/ a BSD, try PC-BSD - KDE is the default there, so you may like it.
If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.
Too much choice. Would you rather have things like under communism in the Soviet Union? You can have your car in any color, as long as its black!
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
give the newbies mint either debian or ubuntu based your pick all of the former ubuntu goodness while still slightly more sane
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
This is a requirement. I make sure that crap is disabled and nothing calls that or the rest of Akonadi to start. The insistence by the developers of trying to force that crap on people mystifies me when the rest of it works so well without it.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
>>>
We believe KDE to be the best technology and therefore way to take over the world.>>>
Hello jriddell, a Canonical developer by the name of Jonathan Riddell was admitting yesterday that kubuntu has not proved a business success in 7 years.
Taking over the world will take time.
I concur. If you want a bleeding edge rolling release (meaning that it takes at most a few days for a fresh stable upstream release to get into the repos) distro with vanilla (unpatched) packages, Arch takes the cake. It's like Gentoo, but without all the recompilation BS, and a really simple init that's easy to edit by hand. And Debian is for when you want things to just work, and don't want to fuss over updates.
openSUSE is also featuring KDE as their preferred desktop (although Gnome and others are supported too). And is a little bit easier to use and less prone to breakage than Debian Sid.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I moved from Kubuntu 11.10 to Arch w/ KDE two weeks ago, and I was struck by just similar a vanilla KDE is to Kubuntu. Hearing they only employed 2 devs is entirely believable.
If you've used a *buntu for a few years and are interested in learning more about your system, Arch is great. The wiki and forums for Arch are excellent, and a vital resource for intermediate users who have found the Ubuntu forums to have a very poor signal-noise ratio for anything beyond basic questions.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
When you discover the port system, you will be won over. All of this scramble to go stable for a release is restricted to the operating system itself. All ports fend for themselves, and keep themselves up-to-date and stable. Plus, if you don't like the dependencies of a certain piece of software that you use, just install it from ports with the tweaks you want.
I've been using it for years and some things were never fixed, even simple ones that always worked in ubuntu. I also never seen any big costumizations, so I'm not really sure what they were actually doing, besides putting together new versions default packages. So IMHO, no custom features, no fixes for blocker bugs, no funding should be done.
That said, name one KDE distro that actually works?
Mepis
Never got to it.
Just checked out the Lubuntu desktop. Interesting, not bad, but could use some more work on the configuration tools. For some strange reason, it didn't find some stuff I use all the time, like Aterm & FBReader. I'dve thought it would have had some kind of dynamic menu or created a menu from the apt database, but I guess not...
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Nothing from the *ubuntu family matches the freedom that Archlinux and Slackware give.
Please try :)
Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
You can have your car in any color, as long as its black!
That was Henry Ford, a man seldom accused of communism. Wait, I've got to add this to my list of go-to conspiracy theories!
when volkerding ditched Gnome out of slackware, where were the kde sympathizers? I know, windows ui similarity is a reason kde is loved(yet the kde fanatics still deny this!) imo, Ubuntu must be consistent with Gnome version. unity seems to me, much worse than default Gnome. look at what Gnome3 did to Gnome DE development! 3 forks as of now iirc - unity,cinnamon,mate bleah!
move to FOSS,save ur nation's resources.
No, I just mean the Novell Evolution packaged with Ubuntu.
It might be available on Mint, but I don't like it anymore. Its many bugs haven't been fixed in years, it's slow and missing more modern features, its many components are always being upgraded with no visible benefit, it crashes X, etc. So I was hoping Mint had something better.
--
make install -not war
> if you need something that "just works," Debian is definitely the way to go.
Now there's something you'll never hear in an Apple store. Only on Slashdot :-)
Ehh, for the longest time your PC could be any color as long as it was putty. Now your laptop comes in black, black, black, or maybe gray and for an additional wad of cash, you can get red or purple. Most people don't know what kinds of choices are important for their computers, or where those choices reside (OS, manufacturer, hardware, or software). Personally, when I first saw Win7, I saw all the places they'd totally ripped off KDE4.x, and KDE4.x was more robust, prettier, and had more options to it. But where it shined was in places that may have been different under the hood, but capitalized on the same user-actions people had been trained to think were ubiquitous. The x in the corner, a start menu, etc. In my experience people want different...but not too different. They want to be eased into the experience. Not saying Canonical has to hold hands or anything, but if you're looking to appeal to the widest variety of adventurous spirits, you give them something slightly different at first, then pique their curiosity and let them push you further. That way it looks like it was their idea all along.
Thunderbird. Faster, more stable, but less versitile than Evolution.
Do people actually use Kubuntu ? It would have to be the worst KDE-based distro on the planet. Simply awful.