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Former Google Exec: Traditional Search Market Shrinking

An anonymous reader writes "Former Google executive Stafford Masie believes that traditional search is dying because users are choosing to query their friends and followers on services like Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr. Here's the quote from the video: 'The pie of search query volumes in the world – that business is shrinking. Why? Because people are going and doing search queries – search query volumes are moving towards social containers. They're moving away from static pages being searched and they're moving more towards dynamic real-time stream content. Like Twitter. Like Tumblr. Like Facebook. Those things have a better result because the penetration, the personalization associated with it, and the constant freshness of the content. So I believe that Google's search volume – the business Google is in on the search side – that business is shrinking. And they've got to do something about it.'"

184 comments

  1. Oh really? by bhagwad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How many here have ever posted a question on social networks asking their friends which laptop/smartphone etc. to buy? I don't. I either start from Google or go directly to Amazon.

    I think "social search" is massively hyped up.

    1. Re:Oh really? by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Social search? No thanks.

      One person I know only buys what Which Magazine recommends. Everything he owns is "top" of Which's ratings. And they all have some pretty killer problems or cost the earth, and he gets nothing more done than someone who buys the cheapest things out of Tesco.

      And just how many of my friends know what an indexable skiplist is, or the correct invocation of a particularl Windows API function, or a system for library cataloguing that integrates with AD, or the name of that guy in the film with that other guy? Precisely zero. If you've stopped tapping things into Google and are instead tapping them into Twitter or Facebook then, let's be honest, they probably weren't really worth asking in the first place. And anyone that answers will use Google to find the thing they read about that topic last week, etc.

      Not only do I not believe it, I think that it could only be a good thing to stop Google having to deal with "Who saw Eastenders the other night? Did Jack find his long-last father?" when it could be dealing with my queries which need a mite more data and research.

    2. Re:Oh really? by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think this is a major factor - people know where to find information now without having to ask Google. They know about Amazon, they know about Wikipedia, they know about their favorite news sites.

      Google has its use, but people aren't having to use Google to find everything the way they used to.

    3. Re:Oh really? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2

      No, that's exactly right. As a matter of fact, most of the big buying decisions are now accompanied by queries on FB. I don't use Twitter, so I can't tell there, but I know that FB status updates are including more and more things like "Anyone know a good realtor", "thinking of buying a laptop - suggestions", etc.

      Google saw that coming, and knows that to continue to stay relevant, they have to get into the social search space, which requires having a social network. Facebook is never going to give anyone free access to their data.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    4. Re:Oh really? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I have, but that was only one component to my searching. I also queried Google and Amazon to check on pricing/features/reviews. Sometimes I'll also go to a brick-and-mortar store to see it in action. Social search has become part of my tool-set, but it hasn't tossed out all of the other tools.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I asked people in my Google circles, my LinkedIn page, inside Facebook, and the two car forums I moderate if they knew anything about Stafford Masie. I'm still waiting for a response.

    6. Re:Oh really? by wanzeo · · Score: 2

      My ideal search engine would be a meta-search to access a specific set of domains.

      For instance, I would love to be able to search only the shopping sites I choose, only the journal databases I choose, only the encyclopedias I choose, and only the social networks I choose, only the news websites I choose, etc, all from one search box. That gives you the freedom of using individual websites, with the convienence of a search engine.

      DuckDuckGo is on the right track, but I would love even more customization.

    7. Re:Oh really? by El+Torico · · Score: 2

      I can see using FB when you're looking for a service provider such as a Realtor, Contractor, Doctor, etc. since those kinds of businesses are built on reputation. I don't see where it's useful in comparing products, since they are measured and reviewed on different web sites. Then again, your friends may have a LOT of stuff.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    8. Re:Oh really? by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think this is a major factor - people know where to find information now without having to ask Google. They know about Amazon, they know about Wikipedia, they know about their favorite news sites. Google has its use, but people aren't having to use Google to find everything the way they used to.

      Well, I do. Rather than wrestle with learning where and how each site's search works, I just Google for what I want, plus, say "wiki" if I want the Wikipedia page, "amazon" for the Amazon page, (Rotten) "tomatoes" for move reviews, etc, etc. The hit on the desired site is always at or near the top.

    9. Re:Oh really? by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think a mix is appropriate.

      The "information" posted to Facebook and Twitter is of such low quality, I can't imagine wanting this to comprise most search results. I can just imagine searching for a topic and seeing a million inane posts where people take pictures of their dinner plates or write things that start with "OMG!"

    10. Re:Oh really? by AlXtreme · · Score: 2

      But you know what you are looking for, confident that you know what you want and are willing to invest time to weigh all the pro's and con's.

      A friend of mine asked about getting a new iPhone or a SGII yesterday on Facebook. After a host of replies he went out and got a SGII. He trusts the opinions of his friends more than the various reviews and technical specs he would find at Google and Amazon.

      I do doubt this type of 'search' will impact Google's bottom line though, previously he would simply ask for opinions in person. But I can imagine it would be lucrative to place an iPhone or SGII advertisement next to such a question on Facebook.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
    11. Re:Oh really? by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      People like plumbers and builders tend not to have good IT skills or they got a bundle with the host website which is crap. So google would have been no help anyway. FB does do this type of thing better. Some type of trade you only want to use if another person has used them before.

    12. Re:Oh really? by vlm · · Score: 4, Informative

      And just how many of my friends know what an indexable skiplist is, or the correct invocation of a particularl Windows API function, or a system for library cataloguing that integrates with AD, or the name of that guy in the film with that other guy? Precisely zero. If you've stopped tapping things into Google and are instead tapping them into Twitter or Facebook then, let's be honest, they probably weren't really worth asking in the first place. And anyone that answers will use Google to find the thing they read about that topic last week, etc.

      Ahh you've ALMOST isolated the perfect market for "social search". Many replies on /. to questions are of the form of "here are the google search terms you didn't know to search for".

      Example made up "ask /." question scenario: "Dear Penthouse Letters ^H ^H ^H err I mean Dear Slashdot, I maintain a medium size herd of Debian boxes from desktops to a compute cluster and I need to config them all the same and run a bunch of scripts on all of them once in a while. Oh noes what shall I do?". You'll get answers like "google for dish distributed shell, then run dish based scripts from a crontab" and "Google for puppetlabs and puppet" and "google for the following James Turnbull Jeff McCune Pro Puppet" If the dude knew what terms to google for, he wouldn't have to bug us here to begin with.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    13. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but then you still use google to find actual product reviews, places that sell the product you decide on and to compare prices.

      In the end those things are going to command more advertising dollars

    14. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That sounds like StackOverflow, which I search via Google... :)

    15. Re:Oh really? by Svartalf · · Score: 2

      That's not wholly the case. With something like Google and Bing, you can find a LOT more than just what new smartphone to buy.

      Amazon doesn't have information on things like Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES) systems, including the deployed systems. Wikipedia might have a good encyclopedic entry on the subject, but you won't find the scientific/engineering journals on the subject or the fact that the first system stored 300MW of power for 6 hours and that the second one stored 110 MW of energy for 26.

      Google or Bing will have that information findable. The main reason there is an impression that it's "fading"- it's because it's difficult to find information because people have forgotten (or never knew...) how to ask the right questions for answers- and you have to frame queries with a bit of care to drive the two top search engines to their fullest.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    16. Re:Oh really? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      this is a weak attempt at something...

      social media is being ignored by many and actively rejected by most of us here. we are a minority but very few of us are all that enamoured by the spy networks (er, I mean social networks).

      are you guys running out of ideas? seems so. so, lets try the concept of search AND this social media stuff. maybe we can make some new money and get people to do even more corporate-serving things?

      the more 'new' things I see companies try, the less I'm a fan of the internet, overall. its being perverted into new, strange things and I'm not liking the directions its being pulled.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    17. Re:Oh really? by Svartalf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Facebook? Really? Faceplant's nothing more than a batch of people doing a "dig-me" thing on the Internet- and I'm one of it's users.

      I wouldn't have even thought about looking for plumbers via Faceplant. Most of my associates (and I can heartily assure you that most of them aren't as computer savvy as I am...) on Facebook wouldn't have thought of looking for a plumber by asking a question of their friends like that. They'd have let their fingers do the walking in the yellow pages, meatspace or online. Sorry, not buying it.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    18. Re:Oh really? by slyrat · · Score: 1

      Google saw that coming, and knows that to continue to stay relevant, they have to get into the social search space, which requires having a social network. Facebook is never going to give anyone free access to their data.

      Google is already working on this. They are slowly merging the ability to have g+ searched with the user in mind when you are searching from google's home page.

    19. Re:Oh really? by brinix · · Score: 1

      I actually see the opposite, some of the search sites are not good enough so that it's easier to search their content on Google. This includes wikipedia if you don't know the exact term to search or the term is in the body.

    20. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do a Google search on 'indexable skip list'...there's almost no ads displayed (I got one at the bottom for 'Indexable milling cutters') All the things you've indicated that social search isn't good at are also things that don't really make a whole lot of money. On the other hand, things like 'LED flatscreen TV reviews' will yield a ton of ads and that's the type of thing that social search is really good at. Do you want to see yet another CNET review from CES or do you want to see a Facebook post from a friend of a friend about setting up his cool new flatscreen. That's debatable, but that's the kinds of search that he's talking about and it's the kind that matter because it's the kind that can be monetized. If Google loses those, they'll be in trouble because all the documentation searches that we /.ers do so much of won't make them much money at all.

    21. Re:Oh really? by ProbablyJoe · · Score: 2

      It always amuses me a bit when I come across posts on StackOverflow or other tech forums where one of the answers is "Google for it" - which I found by googling it. The world needs people to ask the simple questions first so that people can google their answers later!

    22. Re:Oh really? by chronoglass · · Score: 1

      there will always be people that are slow to adapt/adopt.. just the way these things work.
      as usual, this doesn't mean it's not happening.

      I hadn't noticed really.. until I started looking at facebook again, but yup, they are out there. and I have been seeing more and more of em in twitter.

    23. Re:Oh really? by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      Well, within a group of sad old adults, that own houses and have to spend money to fix the house they own. It is acceptable to ask these sad questions.
      When you are going to pay 10,000.00 GBP = 15,825.27 USD for a new roof .. Trust me, you'll ask around to see who knows someone and find out how good they are first. Good luck with trusting some cowboy you found on line with a nice website and no recommendation.
      I'm in the middle of a house renovation and most of the people i've asked to do work have done work for someone I spoke to first. I talk to these people on facebook and in the pub.
      I don't go looking for trades directly, I ask people I'm friends with (or the other 300+) I've just met once doing meatspace related things, if they've used anyone before for a certain job before and would they recommend them?.
      Your not buying that? Do you not believe in any word of mouth at all?

    24. Re:Oh really? by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      I have done this all the time for years. Ask Slashdot is an example of it, if you consider a continuum of question types that range between the extremes of "Where is a piece of information?" and "What's the best decision to make here?"

      I can't quite figure out how my brain decides if a question is more appropriate for a search or querying friends on a forum or social network or in person. I do know that I get feedback if a search-type question is made into a friend query. And I give it, too! The hacker social networks I'm a part of are definitely less forgiving of this than the other groups I'm involved in, and those groups give me negative feedback if I am too negative toward a querist that I believe should be searching.

    25. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the story of your friend going to the shop, moving and hanging the TV on his wall and how he is happy because colors are really pretty and how his girl likes how it matches the furniture is very helpful in decision process.

      Unlike boring details like available connectors, type of backlight, common problems and so on. What the fuck do those reviewers and tech sites know, right? Dave said it has a cool bevel with brushed aluminium finish, and I trust Dave.

      And then, what if none of your friends bought TVs lately? What if they didn't post about it on FB? Will you trust random strangers? Will you post a message "Tell me about TVs" to your friends and wait patiently, and then sift through all "Hey, you're buying a new TV?" and "i dont know but i herd led tvs are nice" and "cool, me too"?

      It's not a replacement and not even a most important factor. You'll still go to Google/Bing, though _may be_ you'll type "$led_tv_model_dave_spoke_about+review" now.

    26. Re:Oh really? by YojimboJango · · Score: 1

      You remember that on facebook you are not the user, you're the product? Now think of everytime your parents have asked you something tech related over facebook.

      Seriously. If you're on slashdot, chances are you are the search engine.

    27. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=recursion

    28. Re:Oh really? by Ghostworks · · Score: 1

      I accidentally participated in an accidental "social search" of sorts a few years ago. It basically demonstrated that it helps find shallow information quickly, but that you become even more blind to results you may want instead.

      Part of an assignment I had was to find a certain number of websites describing the Smith Chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Chart). (I'm still not sure why we were doing this, as it was described pretty thoroughly in the text.) I did one Google search, sifted through about 20 pages of results, found 4 or 5 mediocre ones, bookmarked them and went to dinner. I came back, tried a slightly different search, and found that my previous five were all in the top results. There were a few I hadn't seen, but it surprised me that such a small variation could lead to such a dramatic change when I had had to dig for anything of value before. That's when I realized that variations on "Smith Chart" aren't common searches, and the 15 people in the class had generated a mini-trend. Google's algorithms did what they do, and anything that had been clicked on in the vainest hope that it might not be garbage (like most of the results) floated to the top. Unfortunately, most of those sites were still not great, and now everyone in the class would have the two good ones. If you wanted to find a unique site or a different explanation, digging became progressively harder.

      Because of the niche topic, my search became somewhat like a social search: my "friends" (classmates) had all posted sites as relevant (or rather, Google's algorithm did on their behalf after they clicked the links), and I found the same shallow information as them, but now it was harder to break away from those (still poor) results. If you're trying to collect all the information generated by or about a single source -- everything your friend has ever posted or tweeted about their 2011 trip to the Grand Canyon -- then yeah, a social search will get you there faster without doing the filtering yourself. If you're looking for something, anything about a topic no matter who wrote it -- say, a workaround to a UI bug in a web browser, or a notable product that many people could have written about -- you're just going to be putting on blinders.

      And sadly, true social networks requires the least effort to search of any network. By definition, you will know someone who knows the info you're looking for. Even if it's not immediately apparent from a wall or twitter feed, you can just ask them. It makes no search to take search technology in that direction. I would much rather have a topic-focused search (If the result for ASP says nothing about computers and a lot about Egypt or herpatology, I don't want it) than a social one.

    29. Re:Oh really? by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

      Or some people just learned how to use their bookmarks bar. I've known people who had Google as their homepage and they would search for Facebook.com and then click on the link Google gave them.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    30. Re:Oh really? by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

      its being perverted into new, strange things and I'm not liking the directions its being pulled.

      Ray Bradbury saw it coming. Fahrenheit 451.

      Basically, it started as a forum. It's growing into a colosseum.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    31. Re:Oh really? by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      My ideal search engine would be a meta-search to access a specific set of domains.

      For instance, I would love to be able to search only the shopping sites I choose, only the journal databases I choose, only the encyclopedias I choose, and only the social networks I choose, only the news websites I choose, etc, all from one search box. That gives you the freedom of using individual websites, with the convienence of a search engine.

      DuckDuckGo is on the right track, but I would love even more customization.

      FYI, Rollyo (short for 'ROLL Your Own' search engine) does just that. It's still a bit rigid, in that you have to set up a different virtual search engine for each group you want to search together, but it does work and the virtual engines are editable if you want to add or remove a site at a later date. I agree, it would be nice to have your own set of boxes you can tick or untick to get results from only those sites that you're interested in today...but it's still better than searching each site individually!

      Unfortunately, it looks like rollyo's down for maintenance right now, here's the Wikipedia link to it, if you're interested.

      I have found it useful in the past for that exact reason: quickly searching across several local stores' websites for a particular item, to see who carries it. Unfortunately it lists* results based on site first, so you'll get all the Home Depot results, then all the Lowes results, etc.

      *listed, rather. I haven't used it in a while so I don't know for sure, they might do it differently now...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    32. Re:Oh really? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Believe it not your average person will ask their friends. Comparing tech specs websites doesn't mean anything to them.

    33. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just how many of my friends know what an indexable skiplist is, or the correct invocation of a particularl Windows API function

      The answer to questions like that is on StackOverflow. I don't know if you'd call that "social search". IMHO, generic search is dying. Specialized search is thriving. For good general information, Wikipedia is a better starting point than Google. Then you have the aforementioned technical specialty. Google is still there for random strings that don't fit a category.

      Specialization is one way to winnow wheat from the chaf of general purpose search. Socialization might be another. Looking for "Podunk High class of 76 varsity football roster" on FaceBook has a better chance of succeeding there.

    34. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is the only response I got so far.
      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Stafford+Masie

    35. Re:Oh really? by Junta · · Score: 2

      Here's the thing, the type of people who are satisfied just by "Dave said it has a cool bevel with brushed aluminium finish" are also the ones that advertising is most effective with.

      If someone is going to do in-depth research, the ads similarly will have relatively little impact.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    36. Re:Oh really? by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      The main reason there is an impression that it's "fading"- it's because it's difficult to find information because people have forgotten (or never knew...) how to ask the right questions for answers- and you have to frame queries with a bit of care to drive the two top search engines to their fullest.

      True, however it seems that Google has gotten more lax lately in their quest to bring more relevant search results by double guessing what you 'meant' to search for.

      It used to be that any word or phrase without a + sign in front was optional, so search results would bring up pages that may have only two of the three search terms in them (preferably all three, but if no indexed site had all three terms on it, you'd get sites with some of the terms on them at least). If I wanted to force Google to return only pages with all three search terms in them, I'd have to put a + sign in front of each term. Fair enough.

      Now, however, even putting a + sign in front of a search term doesn't seem to guarantee that that search term will be in all of the returned results. In fact, adding the + sign often doesn't change the base results at all...perhaps the forced term is hidden in the page metadata somewhere, but I don't care about metadata, I only want it if it's on a visible section of an actual webpage or document, and explicitly matches the exact term as I typed it (i.e., '+bubble' should not return pages about some person talking about Bubbles their golden retriever, or bubbly champagne parties...)

      Has anyone else noticed this sort of trend with Google results recently? I'm talking 'recently' as in over the last couple of years or so...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    37. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're pretty much dead wrong about this (for most people at least) and the ex-GOOG guy is correct. If I'm interested in old fixtures for my house it will take me forever to find out about that by googling. I have a friend that's into that. If I'm looking for info on old video games or hardware, I already hang out on forum of likewise-interested folks, I'll ask them. If I have a question about art I'll ask my brother. If I have questions about men's clothing styles, I know people who are into that.

      The reason I ask these people is that they a) may already know the answer and b) even if they don't they already know where to look or where to tell me to look. I don't waste time on acquiring information that they've already both covered and evaluated for usefulness. Could they be wrong? Yeah, but I still have regular search as a backup if I need it.

      Now I don't use social media, but suppose I did. Now I have access to a much larger group of people I have known and am able to keep enough ties to ask them a question with less effort. Also, I may follow someone like Shepard Faery on Twitter, he may actually tell me where to look if I ask a specific question about contemporary art. Jeff Vogel may tell me what's been published about Steam's developer agreement and what has not been disclosed publicly.

      As for your examples with programming, don't you have old friends from previous jobs? I do. Many of them are as willing to help with a question as someone on StackOverflow. When I read this I suddenly understood why Google went into social and social search.

    38. Re:Oh really? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I think you're kind of missing the point from Google's perspective. Their business is selling ad space. People selling smartphones buy lots of ad space. Scientific/engineering journals do not.

    39. Re:Oh really? by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      Well, I do. Rather than wrestle with learning where and how each site's search works, I just Google for what I want, plus, say "wiki" if I want the Wikipedia page, "amazon" for the Amazon page

      Do Wikipedia and Amazon really have that steep a learning curve?

    40. Re:Oh really? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      How many here have ever posted a question on social networks asking their friends which laptop/smartphone etc. to buy? I don't.

      Um... You just Asked Slashdot.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    41. Re:Oh really? by justforgetme · · Score: 1

      lol

      --
      -- no sig today
    42. Re:Oh really? by justforgetme · · Score: 1

      and how would you propose people get accustomed to using specialized searches? yep, exactly, by searching the most advertised search application.!

      IMHO: generic search is the one and only truth, there is nothing that ever will leap it because of it's accessibility.

      --
      -- no sig today
    43. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Higher than "type what you're looking for + (wiki|amazon) in your browsers address bar".

    44. Re:Oh really? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Do Wikipedia and Amazon really have that steep a learning curve?

      Did you not understand that by introducing these with "say" I meant they were simply examples? Once I get to a site (via Google) I may indeed use their own search if it seems likely. Often it's not necessary, so I don't have to bother.

    45. Re:Oh really? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I think is has more to do with SEO's search engine optimisation arse holes making searching much harder for the general public. Thanks to SEO's degradation of the quality (no you shit heads it is pointless spewing up results people are not interested in, just to run up hit's). They are giving up and going to people who can effectively dodge the SEO wankers to get real results.

      Who is a fault, reality it is the search engines themselves in not making filtering results much more readily available. Basically allowing the end user to filter out web sites they have absolutely no interest in. Crappy search sites, crappy shopping sites that sell nothing and, pathetic scrapper sites. Want better search, then let people filter out bad web sites and let that ranking push those same sites back off the first ten pages of results.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    46. Re:Oh really? by Mryll · · Score: 1

      An amazingly prescient book...

    47. Re:Oh really? by cyberthanasis12 · · Score: 1

      I think this is a major factor - people know where to find information now without having to ask Google. They know about Amazon, they know about Wikipedia, they know about their favorite news sites.

      Google has its use, but people aren't having to use Google to find everything the way they used to.

      This is simply not so. The search mechanism that Amazon and Wikipedia have, is far far far .. (n times) behind Google. It is much much (n times) better to use Google to search either Amazon or Wikipedia. In other words Google searhes Google and Wikipedia better than themselves.

    48. Re:Oh really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do it with Google.
      But what is the point ?
      The main issue of information retrieval is that people don't understand information retrieval.
      For exemple, you want to search only a limited amount of domains because you assume they will more relevant.
      Truth is, the search engine is probably and by far better than you when it comes to judge relevency because simple solution to relevency evaluation just works.
      It's like when a website decides to develop their own search engine because they can leverage more information. Usually, in the end, using google only for the site is more pertinent.

    49. Re:Oh really? by coolmadsi · · Score: 1

      Now, however, even putting a + sign in front of a search term doesn't seem to guarantee that that search term will be in all of the returned results. In fact, adding the + sign often doesn't change the base results at all...perhaps the forced term is hidden in the page metadata somewhere, but I don't care about metadata, I only want it if it's on a visible section of an actual webpage or document, and explicitly matches the exact term as I typed it (i.e., '+bubble' should not return pages about some person talking about Bubbles their golden retriever, or bubbly champagne parties...)

      Google updated their search terms slightly recently; you need to put a word in quotes to explicitly match. So "bubble" should do what +bubble used to do.

    50. Re:Oh really? by coolmadsi · · Score: 1

      Or some people just learned how to use their bookmarks bar. I've known people who had Google as their homepage and they would search for Facebook.com and then click on the link Google gave them.

      They might have switched to pinned tabs (I have for a few sites). Don't need a bookmark either as it is always there when you load the browser.

    51. Re:Oh really? by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Now, however, even putting a + sign in front of a search term doesn't seem to guarantee that that search term will be in all of the returned results. In fact, adding the + sign often doesn't change the base results at all...perhaps the forced term is hidden in the page metadata somewhere, but I don't care about metadata, I only want it if it's on a visible section of an actual webpage or document, and explicitly matches the exact term as I typed it (i.e., '+bubble' should not return pages about some person talking about Bubbles their golden retriever, or bubbly champagne parties...)

      Google updated their search terms slightly recently; you need to put a word in quotes to explicitly match. So "bubble" should do what +bubble used to do.

      Hey, thanks for the tip! I've only used quotes with multiple words, I'll try it with individual terms I want to match explicitly, see how it works for me! :)

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    52. Re:Oh really? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Then you've got sites like HP's, which is absolutely useless to find information (either through their navigation system or search). In contrast, 'general' searches on Google (or Bing, for that matter) usually find what I want immediately.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    53. Re:Oh really? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      That, as well as this, is anecdotal: my wife has gotten several recommendations about plumbers from friends through facebook.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    54. Re:Oh really? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Google updated their search terms slightly recently; you need to put a word in quotes to explicitly match. So "bubble" should do what +bubble used to do.

      Thanks! I was getting so annoyed with Google second guessing me and giving me 10,000 irrelevant hits for something that was one letter off from what I was actually looking for. I don't mind it suggesting "Did you mean ..." but when it just assumed I'd made a mistake in my actual search terms and gave me something else, I ended up going to Bing a few times, something I swore I'd never do.

  2. shrinking? by amunds0n · · Score: 5, Funny

    No wonder he is a "former" exec...

    1. Re:shrinking? by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      What I'm wondering is: how did he manage to become a former exec in the first place?

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    2. Re:shrinking? by swanzilla · · Score: 1

      What I'm wondering is: how did he manage to become a former exec in the first place?

      Not knowing about the existence of G+ for starters.

    3. Re:shrinking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he searched his social network for new business strategies...

    4. Re:shrinking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can google the phrase "sour grapes".

    5. Re:shrinking? by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      Hm, allow me to rephrase my previous comment

      How did he manage to become an exec in the first place?

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    6. Re:shrinking? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      And how much would you bet that he just happens to be backing/investing/working at a "social media" company of some sort now?

    7. Re:shrinking? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      No wonder he is a "former" exec...

      You're joking, but in all seriousness we always hear this kind of talk from "former execs."

      "Former exec from Company A, which is known to have a near-indomitable lead in Market B, says that Market B is irrelevant and that anyone who isn't in Market C is missing the boat."

      Scratch that former exec and you'll either find someone who just landed himself a new job at Company D, whose business plan absolutely depends on Market C -- or else who really, really desperately wants to get hired there.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    8. Re:shrinking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I think, he is looking for job with Facebook. Good Try. You made it to /.

  3. step 3) profit by alphatel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or maybe volume is shrinking because Google has gone from an actual search engine to a giant shopping, friendfinder, news aggregator and becoming less useful by the minute.

    --
    When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
    1. Re:step 3) profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Googzilla is starting to scare people away. A number of my friends have started to use alternate tools to googles offerings.

    2. Re:step 3) profit by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or maybe search volume is not actually shrinking. Relevant quote, "I believe that Google's search volume...that business is shrinking." Does he anywhere provide any evidence that what he believes is true? He mentions an anecdote about how he queried friends on social media when he was looking for a restaraunt, that is not evidence. That is opinion. If there is any solid evidence it is not mentioned in either of the articles linked in the summary. One can postulate all the reasons one likes as to why Google's search volume is shrinking, but first one needs to establish that it is, in fact, shrinking.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    3. Re:step 3) profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh, it's clearly about the Facebook IPO - just look at the icon the /. editors picked for this not-suppose-to-be-fucking-happening-pro-facebook-press-pre-IPO - besides, if we all pretend to believe it lord Zuckercunt will gain another billion, w00t!

    4. Re:step 3) profit by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Thanks for saying that. Google has been annoying me greatly lately. They did a tewak a few weeks ago that was supposed to give more relevant results, but the results I've been getting lately have been pretty crappy. Putting a phrase in quotes seems to not work any more; say tou're looking for space aliens and put "little green men" site:wikipedia.org you get results for Little Feat, Green Day, and Men In Black (I didn't actually do that search, it's a hypothetical illustration).

      What's mosr frustrating is, as you say, you're looking for FOSS and find nothing but "BUY HERE" even if you go to advanced search and specifically tell it that the page can't have the words "shopping", "cart", or "price."

      I'd like someone to create a new search engine that put sites with no advertising first, and sites that sell shit last. If I'm looking for a product I'll put "buy" in the search terms, THEN they can put commercial crap first.

      Too bad Bing still sucks even worse than Google's gotten.

    5. Re:step 3) profit by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      Putting a phrase in quotes seems to not work any more; say tou're looking for space aliens and put "little green men" site:wikipedia.org you get results for Little Feat, Green Day, and Men In Black (I didn't actually do that search, it's a hypothetical illustration).

      And interestingly that hypothetical answer gets at least 5 of the top 6 results as perfectly valid interpretations. People frequently complain about how "search sucks now" yet they never seem to be able to come up with *real* examples where they searched using unambiguous terms. People will say things like "I was looking for mag wheels for my car, and searched for [mags]. The results were crap, google is so broken!". They never seem to ask themselves "what terms do I need to put so that this would mean the same thing to everyone on the internet?".

      I've come to appreciate that many people are extremely bad at searching, and that this should ideally be taught in school as an absolutely necessary skill. Usually I can find things pretty well, but I used to have to use Altavista so I got pretty good at figuring out key terms for a search, and I'm familiar enough with things like TF/IDF to avoid picking exceedingly bad terms that will tend to confuse an engine.

  4. Yeah right by Karth · · Score: 1

    I'll ask my friends for a recommendation once I've done a local search, but I'll use a text message to a person, not facebook or some other social media. Post it on facebook and the signal/noise ratio sucks.

    1. Re:Yeah right by vlm · · Score: 2

      I'll ask my friends for a recommendation once I've done a local search, but I'll use a text message to a person, not facebook or some other social media. Post it on facebook and the signal/noise ratio sucks.

      That's where G+ rules and FB sucks. You ask FB to for the best active current regulator bias circuit for a ERA-3 MMIC using all SMD parts and you get "yo doggg I hear you like MMICs" or "is that a kind of weed pipe?" at best. You ask your G+ ham radio builders circle and you get three guys who've already been there / done that.

      The reverse is true. You post "how bout that ball game" on G+ and the ham radio circle as a group tells you to F off and keep that shite out of their circle. That kind of triviality is what FB was meant for.

      I deleted my FB a couple years ago now, but I'll keep G+ around for awhile, I think.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Yeah right by instagib · · Score: 1

      That kind of triviality is what FB was meant for.

      Excellent analysis. And as most people have the desire to "communicate" about every day trivialities while using their brains as little as possible, FB rules the internet every day a little bit more.
      FB is basically the culmination of Eternal September.

  5. Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by coinreturn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Utter nonsense. When I need an obscure part for a broken appliance, I will not be asking my facebook friends. I will always use Google (or other search engine). It is just too instantaneous to ignore.

    1. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by Xeranar · · Score: 1

      Beat me to it. Former is a keyword here. Google is going to lose on some restaurant searches and other social questions but really...their volume isn't going to go down in a realistic way.

    2. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by El+Torico · · Score: 2

      Utter nonsense. When I need an obscure part for a broken appliance, I will not be asking my facebook friends. I will always use Google (or other search engine). It is just too instantaneous to ignore.

      One day in the near future there will be a web site where you can find a plan for that broken part and then hit the "make this" button. Of course, there's a real chance that the abuses of "Intellectual Property" (gasp!) will prevent this from ever happening.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    3. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      You're the second person to post something like this, where your example is asking for some kind of esoteric technical knowledge. Do you really not see that you don't represent the mainstream? How do you not see that the shrinking demand for search is why Google is so forcefully integrating Google+ everywhere? Facebook is replacing the web for many people.

      Yes, my example required esoteric knowledge just to illustrate the point. Bullshit, I don't represent the mainstream. Google search isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Facebook is not a place to search - it is a place to look at your friends' stupid pictures and dumb-ass updates.

    4. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by Xeranar · · Score: 1

      Google makes money off of shopping/commercial/industrial/business searches. Intellectual searches don't do much. As it stands facebook is a great place for friends to ask friends about things locally or otherwise form word of mouth. Facebook advertising is weak and largely falls into the "nobody looks at it" range as does most of google web ads. Instead the search industry isn't necessarily growing but nobody is going "mmh...I'm looking for X" I better go to facebook, no they're going to google it still or perhaps bing it at worst. Facebook/twitter/whatever is here to stay but it isn't going to somehow supplant the idea of how we search for things on the internet. Facebook is an intranet of people who can interact as a community, it doesn't supplant a true search for outside information.

    5. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

      "FORMER" Google Exec getting paid to spread misinformation.

      --
      You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    6. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you can't destroy the argument, destroy the person.

      There's a reason G+ is so critical to the company.

    7. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by Mryll · · Score: 1

      Ditto for error strings emitted by software.

    8. Re:Key Word: "FORMER" Google Exec by Mryll · · Score: 1

      Can we just move them all back to AOL? :)

  6. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No, search is shrinking because the search "algorithms" are going to shit...

    First, I don't want the search engines to "figure out" what I really want, I want it to give me what I ask for!

    Second, I don't want slowness and crap on the screen (I stopped using the Google search webpage when they introduced that stupid fill-it as you type shit -- and No, I don't plan to be logged in to get something "custom"), so I now use zuulu... (but truthfully, I am on the lookout for a Google replacement, and No, BING doesn't even come close due to #1 above).

    Third, have the right priorities, the priorities (if you want my search business) is to provide the links that actually have what I want, not a tonne of advertising with some buzz words (this used to work but when $$ got involved it seems these are always in the top 10 query results).

    Just my one cent worth....

    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You _sometimes_ want to give you exactly what you ask for. Most of the times you don't know exact words to search, so, for example, giving you results for "regular expressions" when you typed "regex" is rather useful.

      You want verbatim - use quotes or switch to verbatim mode (on Google it's in "More search tools" sidebar).

      For second, just turn off JS. I browse the web with JS off by default, whitelisting it for some sites.

      No help with third, though. Search companies want to eat too, so you'll have to deal with it at any search engine.

  7. Didn't they teach this guy? by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 1

    You shouldn't trash your former employer? Especially in public?

    1. Re:Didn't they teach this guy? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't trash your former employer? Especially in public?

      Trash them? He just described - rather conveniently, I think - exactly what his former employer announced they were going to start doing, just a couple weeks ago.

      I think this is probably a really badly thought out attempt at a whisper campaign.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  8. Um... by thestudio_bob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe it's shrinking for Google, but maybe because more and more people are using alternatives. Like me.

    And I want to go on record saying that the entire "Social Search" model is one of the stupidest ideas google has ever come up with. All of my friends and family have different career backgrounds and their own personal likes, when your using a search engine for reference, like for coding, my friend's FaceBook page is not going to help me out.

    --
    The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
    1. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or those in your social circle may depend on YOU to deliver their content to THEM. So if you're considered to be a resource on a topic that interests you and your social circle then you're screwed. Only your friends benefit.)

    2. Re:Um... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      But... your Facebook page could help you with your feelings about coding... /snark

      --
      Check your premises.
    3. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're a coder, you will likely have a greater-than-average number of coder friends on Facebook, which could give you better results than a more generic search. This effect is even greater for Twitter, since many people use it primarily for professional communication.

  9. Wait...WAT?! by AtomicSymphonic · · Score: 1

    Already? Geez, Google's still the top page visited on the internet, and he's saying this? Then again, he could be one that's looking into the future where Google may not necessarily exist any more...

  10. Google search has become more about $, less geek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google is becoming less like Usenet, and more like Amazon-was.

    Was
    Usenet = 100% geek stuff
    Amazon = 90% where-to-buy 10% user ratings
    Yahoo = Social stuff
    Google = 90% Geek stuff, 10% manufacturers support

    Now
    Amazon 70% where to buy - 30% user ratings
    Yahoo = What? What?
    Google = 70% where to buy somehting 25% useful information, 5% links to other search engines.

  11. F-A-D by DogDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know who this guy is or what his history with Google was, but he sounds just like every other talking head pundit/consultant that is blathering on about social media changing the world and such crap. It's a very popular fad whose time is just about up.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  12. Topical sites cause traditional search to shrink by Hentes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Traditional search is shrinking (but, mind you, is far from dying) because of huge topical sites that finally managed to develop good search engines. It's far easier to search Wikipedia, IMDB or Youtube for whatever content you are looking for than shuffling through the results of Google that will take you to those sites anyway.

  13. Two kinds of users by fnj · · Score: 1

    The internet is populated by two kinds of users. People who get it, and stupid clueless losers. Always has been. Only now, the stupid clueless losers have their own walled garden: Facebook. So now the stupid clueless users are not forced to get a clue and use real tools, however poorly. They are free to become even more clueless day by day while using the abortion Facebook.

    1. Re:Two kinds of users by KarolisP · · Score: 1

      This is probably a permanent thing and applies for many areas, some people plow earth with tractors, some with horses, and some by hand...
      Some computer users ( somewhere into 90% ), don't even know that you can search ANY site for a single word they are looking for

      it's a shame really that same applies for money, but it's measured how much of a fucked up and usually immoral personality you are to get over other peoples heads.

    2. Re:Two kinds of users by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Despite your harsh language, I believe you are completely right...

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:Two kinds of users by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      I couldn't have said it better. Bravo!

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  14. Slashdot readers are being asked by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2

    Slashdot readers are being asked. Slashdot readers are not the ones who ask.

    The average knowledge about laptops/smartphones here is several magnitudes better than that in the laymen layer.

  15. Buy? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I search I want information, not opinion.

    I'm fairly sure the guy has a startup he's trying to peddle. Just wait for the IPO.

    Having said that Google's search has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years. I often have to hit the Nth page now to find stuff I'm looking for.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Google's results do seem to be deteriorating. They've also been claiming they are going to adapt all these social search tactics mentioned above. It sounds pretty horrible to me. In an effort to use past searches, locational data, and social networks to serve up what we want google has turned their search into a giant mirror that is just serving up some reflection of what we already think rather than the answers and new information we might be looking for.

    2. Re:Buy? by Brucelet · · Score: 2

      I wonder if some of that is a reflection not of problems with google but instead of a deterioration of the overall quality of the internet.

    3. Re:Buy? by RoknrolZombie · · Score: 2

      That's what most people want, anyway...not answers, but confirmation that what they assumed was already correct.

    4. Re:Buy? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      I guess that this is a YMMV thing. I've not had to dig more than 2-3 pages in and often it's still on the first page or the first link when I place a query. I guess it's more in how you frame your searches.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    5. Re:Buy? by softWare3ngineer · · Score: 0

      Having said that Google's search has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years. I often have to hit the Nth page now to find stuff I'm looking for.

      I switched to http://duckduckgo.com/ a few weeks ago. I find it is much better at returning actual sites instead the long form posts that mentioned questions, but lacked actual information past that.

    6. Re:Buy? by Flammon · · Score: 0

      Having said that Google's search has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years. I often have to hit the Nth page now to find stuff I'm looking for.

      You're doing it wrong. If the results on the first page are off, refine your search. Manual searching should be a last resort.

    7. Re:Buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guys trying to push Facebook. Facebook has been railing hard on Google, mostly market rhetoric to hype up their own IPO, if you ask me. That said, Google going the monetise route with people essentially being able to buy top of the fold results with sponsored results has significantly deteriorated the value and usability of Google's search results.

    8. Re:Buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to turn to Google for the best search results. Now I've been using alternative search engines for years and the rare time I turn to Google I am disappointed because the results aren't any better than what I'm getting elsewhere. On the other hand, I am pleased because I can find what I want elsewhere *and* not sacrifice my privacy.

    9. Re:Buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I modify my searches to specifically avoid that:

      Real life example: When looking to buy a pair of snowshoes, I did not google "Should I buy X brand of snowshoe?" but instead I searched for "X brand snowshoe problems/complaints". That way, I'm avoiding all of the self-confirmational reviews (or "reviews" by the manufacturer, and instead I get all of the complaints, problems, defects, etc that come up with that brand.

      If X brand has a whole pile of complaints about something (mentally filtering out the 'herp derp I don't understand how to use it so therefore it's terrible' type postings), such as a specific joint always cracking, or whatever other aspect repeatedly failing, I can safely eliminate that from the list of contenders for my money.

      Combine all that with various online review sites, as well as in-store reviews from the people there (Mountain Equipment co-op has been pretty good about not pushing the 'most expensive' thing, and actually gauging the specs I'm looking for and what I'm using it for, and pointing me to the most appropriate... and sometimes I may even rent a product to test it out... they're good about that too), and the end result is that I tend to get a product that I'm extremely happy with.

      When looking for a product, I don't WANT confirmation bias... I want to be told that I'm wrong if I'm wrong.

    10. Re:Buy? by formfeed · · Score: 1

      Having said that Google's search has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years. I often have to hit the Nth page now to find stuff I'm looking for.

      Amen.

      It used to be that one could type in a quote in quotation marks and Google would find the page for you. Now it seems like anything above three words is ignored. Worse, I want something very specific but Google decides I should look at something popular instead. If I type in something like "gphoto2 support cameraX" I probably don't want consumer reviews of cameraX or Target's latest offer on cameraX. And if I want to find out if someone managed to hookup an external antenna to a wifi card, I don't want antenna stores, wifi card offers, and windows driver problems on the first four pages.

      At some point in time, Google decided that (match for term1+match for term2) would get a lower ranking than (match for term1+similar technical term+very popular site). And that's my only reason to use "social searches": Knowing someone or some site that knows the site I am looking for.
      <sarcasm> I can't wait for webrings to come back... </sarcasm>

    11. Re:Buy? by Flammon · · Score: 1

      The first hit for gphoto2 support canon rebel t1i is http://gphoto.sourceforge.net/doc/remote/ so either you picked a really bad example or you're just making shit up.

      The quality of the results usually reflect the quality of the question. Try advanced search and you'll very rarely need scan more than 1 - 2 pages.

    12. Re:Buy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I search I want information, not opinion.

      I'm fairly sure the guy has a startup he's trying to peddle. Just wait for the IPO.

      Having said that Google's search has noticeably deteriorated over the last couple of years. I often have to hit the Nth page now to find stuff I'm looking for.

      Google search has really got worse; I routinely find pretty basic search strings giving results of 6 webpages. That's six pages on the entire planet Earth.

      I've been trying to prototype with a Brushless DC motor for a few weeks. I can't actually find even a close "ballpark" unit via Google. If am not very specific I get [some huge number ... how huge I can't say for sure, read on] of aggregation sites listing a picture, no specifications, and an eMail address in China or India for a price..

      If I add some criteria ... not much, mind you, maybe two parameters ... I get six. HIts. On one page. Apparently, I am supposed to believe that is the entire sum of webpages on Earth that mention these extremely common and necessary specifications together..

      Also, Google now has reduced the length of the jump you can do to about 10 pages. Used to be I would check page 1, page 2, page 3 and if they were junk I'd jump to page 10, page 20 and if still junk jump to 50, 100, 200 and so on. Somewhere you'd find a spot where the "real" links were, and could start working your way back..

      No more; you can only jump 5 pages now (your page 1 results show 10, but if you hit 10 then the range on page 10 is 6 to 14 so you can only jump to 14; or five pages ahead)..

      I have little doubt Google is much friendlier to consumers now; if you want a digital camera you can probably find what you want..

      But, if you actually want any real information or are searching for non-consumer goods or suppliers, it's terrible. It was better in 2002; I'd say Google search itself peaked about five years ago but it's really been bad over the last 12 months. They've tweaked themselves into irrelevancy..

      Worse, most of the specialized search engines I used to turn to in these situations are now [nearly] gone; sure they have a search page, but the results are usually dead, meaning their searchbots are hungry and refusing to work, and the parents are on life support..

      Google was my home page (opened on every new browser window) for more than a decade. Yesterday I switched settings so now it's Bing. The jury is still out, but it doesn't look good. I'd hate to go back to 1990 and start ordering catalogs in the mail, but it's looking that way..

    13. Re:Buy? by Mryll · · Score: 1

      That's possible... I'm sure the fraction of available material that has been written by Joe or Suzie six-pack is much greater than it was ten years ago. Why would I trust my crazies on FB???

  16. Former employee talks down about former employer by Yogs · · Score: 1

    I'm shocked I tell you.

    And to do so because Google isn't "social" enough. What an original thought in these days leading up to the facebook ipo!

  17. Not good. by enigma32 · · Score: 2

    Personally, I don't give a crap about what my idiot friends "liked". I want search to find things that are relevant- not necessarily just popular.
    I hope his view isn't shared by google.

    1. Re:Not good. by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Google fills a definite niche. If they leave it, I have no doubt that someone else will swoop in to fill it.

      --
      Check your premises.
    2. Re:Not good. by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Me too. I'm starting to get tired of hype around the Facebook, especially for having concluded that it is the biggest waste of time and privacy threat that I have ever seen.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:Not good. by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Actually, Google's original algorithm was in large part based on popularity. But now they are trying to figure out what you want to see based on your own past searches, or rather Google's profile of you, rather than giving objective results. Much like Facebook tries to decide who's posts you want to see. I use Ixquick alot now.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    4. Re:Not good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want search to find things that are relevant- not necessarily just popular.

      I thought that google's search algorithm worked by putting the most popular links at the top?

  18. This guy needs to be fired by Strykar · · Score: 1

    Social? Please. The majority of my friends using Facebook couldn't be trusted with advice for my new car, much less anything of more value. I'll do my own searches and filter thru TYVM.

    1. Re:This guy needs to be fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the original article headline does] say "Former" Exec.

  19. I don't buy it. by forkfail · · Score: 1

    Maybe as a part of the pie - but I think the pie is growing faster, and doubt the absolute volume is shrinking. Too bad TFAs don't have, you know, actual numbers.

    One might ask one's friends about what phone to buy, or what's good in music, or what Joe Schmoe's phone number is; one might query a professional network for the answer to an complex algorithm or how many pineapples were exported from Hawaii last year, but at the end of the day, each of these questions is likely to be followed up by a Google type search.

    Throw in smart phone use, and no, I just don't see the absolute volume shrinking.

    --
    Check your premises.
  20. bitter former employee by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 2

    with investments elsewhere disses google. ok. twitter as a search agent? for what? where to eat? even if I asked a friend if they like their new car that doesn't mean I'm buying it (and certainly not without more than 'oh yeah its great' which can often really mean 'Its not as good as I thought so leave me alone I dont want to be embarassed stop asking me questions!;)

    The area I think google (and the other search agents) can improve is relevancy and classification of results. Search is not dying but its growth rate may hae peaked in the developed world (who is not online? what would make you search more than you do now (on average)?)

  21. Depends on the search... by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

    I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

    Opinions, of course, are a good thing to look for on Facebook/social networks. Factual information isn't; even if the information you get is good they're probably just going to end up sending you to a result they got through Google anyway. It's also a decent place to look--assuming your friends have similar interests--if you don't know how to formulate the query you want. For example, sometimes when I'm searching Google I spend the first couple of searches just trying to figure out what the search term I'm looking for is. Search engines don't tend to do well when you can only describe a concept and not name it, but other human beings are really good at parsing that sort of thing, assuming they know the answer.

    Local information is also good if you have local Facebook friends. Finding a contractor, for example, or a daycare or dog walker or whatever. These people have to be local to you anyway, so if your friends have any experience with those local businesses their opinions are going to be highly valuable.

    Factual searches, searches where you know exactly what you want and just need to find it, those aren't great for social networks. You're just offloading the work of actually searching onto your friends.

    So is he right that the search market is shrinking? Yeah, I'm sure he is. The better question, however, is whether it is shrinking in any meaningful way.

    1. Re:Depends on the search... by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

      Opinions, of course, are a good thing to look for on Facebook/social networks. Factual information isn't;

      How do I *search* for opinions of others on Facebook?

      That's not even possible.

      Not that I really disagree with what you're saying, but you (and maybe TFV, which I didnd't watch) are basically comparing querying a database with asking friends? I'd agree that that's "kind of a database", too, but so is asking Slashdot, or Stackoverflow, or any forum really. That always existed, it even predated the web (think newsgroups), and to me, that's what you do when you don't find the answer with a search engine, or on sites you know to be knowledgeable on the subject (I'd have thought that Wikipedia alone is taking a bigger chunk out of search engines than Facebook by the way, heh).

      So what changed? I don't get it :(

      Before this article, the idea to search for anything meaningful on Facebook didn't even occur to me. Now it occured to me, and I dismiss it as the stupid idea it is :D Posting something on the wall for friends, that's not any different from emailing people in my mind.. and it has fuck all to do with Facebook or other "social apps", me and people I like, or strangers who have interesting things to say, bring that to the party, and take it away when we leave. It's like a bus stop doesn't create "traveling", curious people do. A good bus should have not flat tires etc., and also, it should shut the fuck up already. Now that's a good bus worth paying the fare, and that's what goes completely over the heads of a lot of web monkeys.

  22. Nice crowd sourced search engine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've found a nice crowd sourced search engine, 4chan.org/b/

  23. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All these sites have "powered by Google" search.

  24. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2

    I don't think these sites are building good search engines. Even when I know the information is on Wikipedia or IMDB, I'd rather use Google to search them.

    To give an example - I just tried "site:imdb.com Gyllenhaal secretary" on Google. Unsurprisingly it led me to the IMDB page for the movie Secretary in which she (very sexily) stars. On the other hand, putting in the search terms "Gyllenhaal" and "secretary" in the IMDB search box, gives me a lots of info on ... Kofi Annan. (Nothing against the man, but I'd be surprised if he was in *any* spanking movie, yet alone a really good one.) There is a link to Maggie Gyllenhaal on the page as well, but nothing leading directly to the movie.

    Even if I don't know much about the advanced features of Google, just putting in the search terms into Google - without the "site:imdb.com" part - would give me a full page of relevant results, a youtube clip of the intro to the movie, the IMDB page, the wikipedia entry etc.

    Essentially if people are using the IMDB search engine to look for stuff on IMDB, then they are not using the full potential of that site. If Google's share of the search market is shrinking because of that, then they should try and make people aware just how much better they are at searching.

  25. i asked this at my google interviews by Surt · · Score: 2

    I've interviewed with 10 different people at Google. I asked every one what they thought google would do when facebook took over the search space because people wanted to go to the sites their friends recommended rather than search for pages. No one had an answer. Their other current services are so much smaller, the company is going to have to go through radical downsizing if they can't come up with an answer to this.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    1. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether Google can continue to innovate is one thing.
      But your question is stupid.
      People always did go to sites their friends recommend.
      Why do you think it will make the need to search for information disappear?

    2. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Whether Google can continue to innovate is one thing.

      I would be far more likely to continue using Google if they'd stopped 'innovating' their search a couple of years ago when it mostly just worked. The 'smarter' they make it, the more annoying it becomes.

    3. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Surt · · Score: 1

      No one needs to search. They need to find. Facebook is enabling finding without search, and the more they do it, the more they will cannibalize Google's core business.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure the results are getting poorer because Google is "innovating" as you put it, or could it be the case that the search results would be even worse if they didn't "innovate" at all.

      People are always trying to game the system. I would say that the deteriorating quality is more due to that than anything Google has done.

    5. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by OWJones · · Score: 1

      I've interviewed with 10 different people at Google.

      [ Disclaimer: I work for Google. ]

      I've been here for several years and I've never ever seen an interview schedule with 10 people. Are you including the recruiters, all the people you spoke to over the phone, all your interviewers, and the person who took you to lunch as "interviewers"? Did you interview here multiple times? Because nothing I've seen -- and I've done over 100 interviews here -- matches your description.

    6. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A single cycle in the Google interview process is 1-3 phone screens, a recruiter (usually 3, since turnover is so fast), and onsite with 6 meetings (some with a shadow interviewer), and a "team placement" meeting with a manager. That's 8-14 people.

    7. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Surt · · Score: 1

      I interviewed on 3 occasions. 4/4/2. Different groups were interested in meeting me because I have a varied background.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    8. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What evidence can you offer that your hypothetical is worthy of serious consideration? Sounds like, in your best imitation of late night TV commercials, you're just trying to use scare tactics in order to sell your product or service.

    9. Re:i asked this at my google interviews by Surt · · Score: 1

      Facebook is selling advertising. They are building more and more infrastructure around allowing users to share/find relevant sites. That business eats directly into Google's search business. If Google can't see that train coming, they are in trouble. And the evidence I saw suggested they are soon to be blindsided.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  26. Premium Google by koan · · Score: 1

    They will start charging for some or all of the services (besides search) however I find it hard to believe that more people want to search is social networking, that maybe because I find things like Facebook banal, and Twitter narcissistic, I continue to hope that I'm just cynical, but maybe most people are stupid and stuck on themselves and the triviality of their friends.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Premium Google by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      They will start charging for some or all of the services (besides search)

      Start?

      Google Voice -- has baseline free service with for-pay options (international calling.)
      Google Apps -- has free tier and paid tiers
      Google App Engine -- has free and for-pay options, with some features limited to for-pay options.
      etc., etc., etc.

      Google already chages for some of the services.

  27. "Former" being the keyword by alteveer · · Score: 1

    The most basic user story:

    1. go to www.google.com.
    2. search.

    is really how people are getting shit done. I can see niche search, like Wolfram, or maps.google.com, or Amazon for products, but social search is bs.

  28. People search directly from the site they're at by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read somewhere about 2 years ago that YouTube was the #2 search tool. If you want to look at a video, people go directly to YouTube to find the video. Why go to Google for that extra step?

    1. Re:People search directly from the site they're at by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      I don't normally go to google to search youtube, but I have noticed relevant results from time to time and have used the link, resulting in a very good find.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  29. "Dying" is the King of bad metaphors. by ugglybabee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every blip or countertrend will always be accompanied by some jackass on the internet explaining how some established paradigm is "dying". Usually, it's some tech blogger desperately trying to goad readers into clicking on his story by being provocative, and it's usually a loaded question, because actually saying what is implied is flat-out ridiculous. When Linux on the desktop finally reaches two per cent. Some jackass will post a blog with the title "IS MICROSOFT DYING?" It's really really really overdone, especially when you consider that it's nonsense. Dying means that Death is imminent, and death is nonexistence. You could argue that nothing that isn't a life form can die in the first place, and you'd usually be right. People are still putting on Greek tragedies. Indeed, somebody somewhere is probably WRITING a Greek tragedy. So Greek Tragedy is not dead. It's not even dying. And "traditional internet search"? Hell, that doesn't make any sense either. Has the web been around long enough that anything about it can be considered "traditional"? Besides bullshit, I mean.

  30. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by El+Torico · · Score: 1

    Kofi Annan was in that? Wow, the things I learn from the Internets.

    --
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
  31. Re:Google's search has noticeably deteriorated by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    Some notes:

    We all know how the intelligence curve works, right? Really smart ranges get *more rare*, while Google's PageRank values *more common* results. So the link farm companies had their day building 100 sites that all link to each other with little else on it but a list of hit words.

    What we need is an engine that gives smart answers, now How is Babby Formed type stuff. Problem is there might be only 5 copies of a good answer out there, and lots of junk ones.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  32. Google "Exec" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never heard of him. I had to Google him to find out that he was Google South Africa Country Manager from 2007 to 2009...

  33. More "executive-think", like how the prevailing by spads · · Score: 1

    sentiment of optimal job hunting strategy was to go out and start asking everyone you meet on the street, up to and including canines and sign posts.

    Should file this under "dumpster diving"

    --
    Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
  34. What if all your friends are idiots? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if all your friends are idiots?

  35. Yes, really by bonch · · Score: 0

    Most people just go to the store or ask a techie friend. They don't do Google research.

    If you don't think traditional search is a dead-end, then maybe you'd like to explain why Google is turning its search engine upside-down and integrating Google+ everywhere in spite of the uproar. It's because Facebook has outright replaced the web for many people--email, news, videos, casual games, it's all coming through Facebook. Google knows that social is the future and that if they don't do something, they'll just be another Infoseek getting replaced by some hot, new thing.

    Of course that's not going to ring true for a site full of Linux-loving techies who avoid social networks and think searching for esoteric computer parts is what everybody does. But in the mainstream, people are using Facebook all day long for almost all communication now.

  36. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by tOaOMiB · · Score: 1

    Sure...but on the other hand, as soon as you start typing "Gy" into imdb, Gyllenhaal comes up complete with a photo and a big-name movie (for both Jake and Maggie). And if you type in secretary, it brings up an option to go straight to the movie page--without even having to type Gyllenhaal too. So I'd say that's quite a win for imdb. You don't need to know who is in the movie, you don't need to be able to spell "Gyllenhaal"....

  37. Competing to answer dumb questions by Animats · · Score: 1

    Google has been optimizing their system to provide better answers to dumb questions. This reflects the most popular searches asked of Google. Google has strengthened their emphasis on currency, locality, and popularity, at the expense of depth. The general observation is that Google has been "dumbed down".

    That emphasis puts Google in direct competition with social networks, which are, of course, focused on currency, locality, and popularity. That's a problem for Google. Especially since the social networks all have their own internal search capabilities.

    Google still has some big competitive advantages. The biggest is that ads on search results are presented when someone is looking for something, and thus aren't an annoyance. Ads on social networks just get in the way. Ad clutter on Myspace was a major factor in their demise. Spam on Twitter is becoming more of a problem. Facebook traffic stopped growing in mid-2011. The social networks may be hitting a wall on advertising revenue.

    From a business perspective, Google has the problem that they don't pay a dividend. They try to pretend they are still in their growth phase. But their stock peaked in 2007. There's nothing wrong with being a profitable company, #1 in the field, and paying a dividend. But Google keeps trying to grow in other areas, none of which make money. Google's revenues are 96% ads, 4% everything else. Investors would prefer they get out of phones and social and focus on their core business. Meanwhile, Bing nibbles off another 2% or so of Google's market share each year. Microsoft has staying power - the entire first generation XBox effort lost money. Now they're winning in game consoles, while Sega is nowhere and Sony is in trouble.

    1. Re:Competing to answer dumb questions by Dan667 · · Score: 0

      consoles are dying in general so not the best example.

  38. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by c · · Score: 1

    > Nothing against the man, but I'd be surprised if he was in *any* spanking
    > movie, yet alone a really good one.

    Nice try, but I am not googling "Kofi Annan spanking movie".

    --
    Log in or piss off.
  39. Re:Google search has become more about $, less gee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot:

    Now
    Usenet = mostly dead

  40. Cart before the horse by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

    Maybe it's shrinking for Google, but maybe because more and more people are using alternatives.

    A former Google exec says he believes that traditional search volume is shrinking (but offers no reason for other people to share this belief) and then spends a lot of time offering explanations for what factors might be causing the effect which he hasn't provided any reason to believe is happening in the first place.

    It's fairly rational be skeptical that the effect is happening at all. Its less rational to assume that the general effect asserted by the former exec without any substantiation is a real effect, but that it is specifically effecting Google rather than general traditional search. That's just more pushing personal bias as explanation for (yet another) phenomenon for which no evidence has been provided.

    Let's see some reason to believe that there is an effect to explain before offering explanations for it.

  41. Social networks are nearly useless for search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never been all that much into serious drugs, so I simply can't imagine what this guy is smoking. It's so beyond my experience that I'm just in awe, and a little scared to try to think too hard about what it might be like. To totally let go of reality like that, without so much as a thread to ever lead you back, to leave the world of senses and reason behind and journey completely into the imaginati-- sorry, getting off-topic.

    People might be messing with social networks to aid search, but this is high-hanging fruit with low utility. The people you know, almost never have the information that you want. And even if they did, they almost never publish it in advance of your question (and you're sure as hell not going to want to wait for an interactive reply). And even if you're very lucky and someone you know does know what the error message means or does have the widget you're contempating and has formed an opinion about it, that's one. One is rarely enough.

    Word-of-mouth is useful but it's "push" -- it's something that just happens regardless of whatever you want, with information you almost never sought out. It doesn't help a damn bit when you are the initiator. And initiating queries is the whole point of search.

    This guy is in a totally different world. He must be googling phrases like "good new band to check out" or "recent news" or other stuff that search engines can possibly supply, but aren't usually used for.

  42. P.R. bullshit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    P.R. bullshit.

    Google's use has shot up due to in-browser search bars. Who the hell wants to go to facebook or twitter to find something not facebook- or twitter-related?

    My guess, without doing any research, reading hte article or these comments: This former exec is touting software from an up-and-coming company designed to (gasp) aggregate and mete searches between content providers.

    People talk about drivel getting posted to Slashdot lately, I've seen a couple good examples and a couple bad. This one is a good. Example. Of drivel.

  43. I am more concerned about the info fishbowl by Dan667 · · Score: 2

    One thing I read that I am now wary of is that targeted search and social media is creating an info fishbowl. Instead of getting to see what is in the world you are starting to get just what is in your region or what you peers are clicking. There should be a push back to at least allow an option to have regular worldwide results returned. And social media? No way I ever go there to find out anything especially to buy. Something happened or organizing maybe, but that is about it.

    1. Re:I am more concerned about the info fishbowl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DuckDuckGo may be your friend.

  44. TV-cation of the Internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was bullshitting with a buddy yesterday and we stumbled upon a similar topic. Not about google in particular, but rather the Internet as a whole becoming more and more like TV and how search engines don't have a place in that world. We all know the content cartel would love for the Internet to become TV, so we must assume they're trying to make it happen. My opinion at the end was that the phasing out of search on the Internet will be the beginning of long, painful spiral to Internet "channels". This idea is not novel -- I've read it here on slashdot more than once -- but I think its starting to actually happen.

    Google search and + combined into one. Facebook. Twitter. Bah. Pretty soon we're going to buy our bandwidth from ISPs and then pay for access to the Google channels, or the Facebook channels, or the Fox channels, or just go to Time Warner (Net)Cable and get their econo-package that includes everything you don't want plus the one thing that you do want that's exclusive to TW(N)C.

    The Internet may route around censorship, but does it route around greed?

  45. It is all about advertising by mondoterrifico · · Score: 1

    What this guy really means as that advertising is changing. Searching is fine. Google quickly had to find a way to monetize search results and they grew into a advertising firm or sorts.
    So yes from google's perspective as an advertiser it must be troubling to not have such a firm hold in the "social media" space.

  46. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1

    If you know the "Gy" bit, then you are right. Try "gillenhall secretary" though - no problem for Google, no results for IMDB.

  47. traditional search Facebook Twitter, and Tumblr by keneng · · Score: 1

    No matter kind of comment this FORMER google exec says, google's search engine will always be my first place to search. These other sites have their complementary values when associated with search engines to get there in the first place, but these facebook, twitter, tumblr sites serve entirely different purposes. Google's search engine is broader in search than simply going to facebook for example. If you simply use facebook, you won't find anything outside of the facebook's walled-garden because that's the way they market it. When you're looking under every rock for something, you don't want to limit yourself to just facebook or just twitter or just tumblr. Facebook/twitter/tumblr impose people to login before viewing any of the public content which is inconvenient. These sites are selfish as they are walled-gardens forcing people to register accounts with them before content is released through the internet. Slashdot on the other hand has a different approach. Everyone may view slashdot content that they found from google's search engine without logging into slashdot. Which makes it available to all on the internet and not just slashdotters. Slashdot is a pseudo-walled garden because you need to register an account to post comments. Privacy and anonymity are account options. Paying money to slashdot as a premium subscriber does ensure access to the most recent update articles which don't go public for something like 24 hours. It's an edge if you're desperate to have that edge. That edge means google's search engine doesn't see premium stuff for last 24 hours if I understood correctly. Information found on facebook/twitter/tumblr cannot be worth more than information found on any other web sites to the extent that it's worth BILLIONS$$$. Google itself is priceless and almost universally accessible because it has links to every website bringing value to every website in a sense of coopetition.

    In response to Mr. Masie: "Those things have a better result because the penetration, the personalization associated with it, and the constant freshness of the content. So I believe that Google's search volume – the business Google is in on the search side – that business is shrinking. "

    IMHO I believe he is wrong. Google's business will not shrink. It will ever expand due to the nature of web search engines infinitely finding web pages wherever they may be, on public web sites, pseudo-walled-gardens and all-out walled-garden web sites. The bottom-line is walled-gardens(facebook, twitter, tumblr) will never replace traditional search engines, but the traditional search engines will get smarter in terms of how they pass-thru the walled-gardens in order to deliver on their promise: indexing the entire web and making it available on as many devices as possible.

  48. Maybe for programming: See StackOverflow by the.aham · · Score: 1

    For the longest time, I used a search engine to help me figure out some programming issues. Now, I tend to go directly to StackOverflow and its related sites because (1) there's (sample) code that I can look at to figure out whether I'm missing something; and (2) people tend to be interested in providing helpful info. The times I use a search engine are when (a) I have some specific error message (compiler, some program I'm using, etc.); or (b) I'm looking up a tag/method/etc. that's new to me.

    I wouldn't consider StackOverflow et. al. to be a Facebook/Twitter/etc. kind of "social container" because I think it has two primary goals: (1) Ask questions specifically to get help, and (2) Answer questions specifically to help our your fellow StackOverflow user. I don't see Facebook/Twitter/etc. having those two goals as primary (e.g., anything goes). I do consider it a "forum", which is like a social container but more focused/purposeful.

  49. Search volume NOT shrinking by rgbrenner · · Score: 1

    You're exactly right. Take a look at comscore for dec 2011:
    http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2012/1/comScore_Releases_December_2011_U.S._Search_Engine_Rankings

    More than 18.2 billion explicit core searches were conducted in December (up 2 percent).

    Nov 2011:

    More than 17.8 billion explicit core searches were conducted in November.

    Oct 2011:

    More than 18.0 billion explicit core searches were conducted in October, marking a 6-percent increase versus September.

    Go all the way back to April 2010:

    Americans conducted 15.5 billion searches in April, up slightly from March.

    Where's the decline? Whoever fired him is really good at their job.

  50. @staffordmasie replies on twitter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just read the last four tweets sent out...perhaps commentary here should be directed at the following versus the sensationalized snippets in the article published;

    Tweet 1 : No!! Google is not dead! Google Search is not dead! But, the rapid evolution of "real time social streams" of information discovery is real!

    Tweet 2 : Online data discovery's evolutionary points; "Pages to streams...today to now...me to we...items to data" - Kevin Kelly

    Tweet 3 : Google's notion of "universal search" is becoming more difficult due to non-index'able data islands of "real-time social content streams"

    Tweet 4 : Examples of the search wars: Siri: bit.ly/nigEBm Twitter: bit.ly/kV79w9 Facebook & Google & more: bit.ly/Auw2Bw

    Found @staffordmasie

  51. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Except that there is no evidence that traditional search is shrinking. This guy asserts that such is the case and submits an explanation as to why without ever backing up his assertion. Several people have replied elsewhere that there is evidence that traditional search is not shrinking.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  52. 'Optimized for Research' settings? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

    I don't know if there are enough of us doing serious technical/scientific searches to constitute more than a rounding error in Google's search numbers. But if the market for 'social' searches really is tanking, then I wonder what would happen if Google made itself better for 'real' searches? You know, as good as they were 5 or 6 years ago? Would their search numbers be significantly better?

    I mostly use Google for researching electronics information - component data, repair manuals, and the like, as well as circuit topologies and theory for design projects I'm working on. In my experience, Google is much less useful for this purpose than it used to be. First off, they automagically change my search terms to what they think I'm looking for, instead of what I really am looking for, so I have to click again to get what I wanted in the first place - this is a several-times-a-day occurrence. Second, their 'allintext' operator, (which I never even had to use several years ago, when Google worked better), does its intended job less and less these days - cached results often don't contain at least one of my search terms. Third, their seeming inability to screen out content farms, (which I can usually identify simply by viewing the summary), slows down searches. Fourth, the automated preview crap they now put on the right side of the screen, slows things down too much, and is awkward and distracting. Fifth, having to use NoScript to disable said nonsense slows me down on those occasions when I DO need to allow Google to run JS for some reason.

    While Google's stated intention has been to provide more relevant search results, every 'improvement' they've made seems designed solely to increase the number of matches, and relevance be damned - to the point where they actively undermine the tools that they themselves have provided to refine searches.

    I suppose some of these deficiencies might be fixable to some extent if I had a Google account - but with Google's stated and demonstrated intention to rape everybody's privacy, I'd rather not let them get their hooks into me any farther than I already have.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:'Optimized for Research' settings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Bing. It supports double quotes around phrases, plus and minus signs to say search terms either must or must not appear in the results as well as the site: operator to search a specific site. These are all things that Google used to support until their instant search "feature" was added (site: is still supported by Google). Examples:

      site:facebook.com +"mark zuckerberg" +sucks

      Would search only sites on the facebook.com domain for pages that contain the phrase "mark zuckerberg" *and* the word "sucks".

      +"mark zuckerberg" +sucks -ass

      Would search all sites that contain the phrase "mark zuckerberg" *and* the word "sucks" but *do not contain* the word "ass".

      Note: I'm not sure if I spelled the dipshit owner of Facebook's name correctly and I don't care.

  53. Stafford Masie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until Netcraft confirms it, I have no reason to believe Stafford Masie's claims about anything dying.

  54. Missing the point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of y'all are sort of missing the point of the term "market" here - Google doesn't make money from searches, they make money from search advertising. Search advertising is more profitable with nebulous, subjective queries for which Google search does a decent, but not great job, but is potentially replaced by social search/recommendations. Search advertising is less profitable for those types of searches where Google does a near perfect job - locate specific pieces of information, consensus best solutions, or specific pages on specific sites with bad internal search engine.

  55. Social Search by daath93 · · Score: 1

    What annoys the shit out of me is when I google something and the first several links are to god damned facebook posts.

  56. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course Google ranking on a percentage of search queries is shrinking, because lots more people are searching for utterly banal stupid stuff their friends said or linked to on a social networking site. So Google doesn't do as well on almost completely content-free searches as Facebook does. So what?

  57. Oh boy... by nighthawk243 · · Score: 1

    And I thought searching for obscure programming errors on Google was difficult enough, asking people on Facebook won't even get me the luxury of finding a forum thread of the same exact problem 3 years ago where the OP went: "Ok... nvm. I fixed it" and never provided a solution before the admin closed it.

  58. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by CCarrot · · Score: 1

    > Nothing against the man, but I'd be surprised if he was in *any* spanking
    > movie, yet alone a really good one.

    Nice try, but I am not googling "Kofi Annan spanking movie".

    At least not from work... :)

    --
    "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
  59. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by satuon · · Score: 1

    I always search them through Google anyway. I use Chrome, and I have added a custom search engine 'javascript:void(location.href='https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%s+site:'+location.hostname)'. So when I want to search a site, I just go to the address bar, type 'site', and press Tab, and voila! I've got a 'custom' search engine for every site.

    Actually I use that for smaller websites, for Wikipedia I just add 'wiki' to the search query. If I want to find a movie in imdb I type it's name and the imdb link is usually the first one anyway. If it's not I just add 'imdb'. I use only Youtube's internal search more than Google, because Google gives only 2-3 results with thumbnails from Youtube unless I add 'youtube', and 'youtube' is 7 symbols, so it's too much typing. The reason I use the internal search is because with Chrome's omni bar I can type 'you', press tab and type my query directly, which is less keystrokes than adding youtube to the google search query. I never search by going first to youtube's home page and then typing my query.

  60. Social Inequality by The+Raven · · Score: 1

    There are social network 'haves' and 'have nots'. Some people have 500,000 twitter followers, and can ask just about any question and get a slew of responses, some of them excellent. Some people have 15 with nary a high school graduate in the list; getting insightful and timely answers from that list is not nearly as likely. People with hundreds or thousands of followers think that social media is going to change the world; they literally do not realize that not everyone has the same type of network that they do. That, in fact, they are blessed with a surplus of social power in the same way that some people have wealth.

    Search engines don't care how many friends you have. They have answers. Search is an equalizer; social networks are not.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
  61. Re:Topical sites cause traditional search to shrin by Hentes · · Score: 1

    Yeah in Opera you can do something similar directly in the address bar, it lets you set keyboard shortcuts for search engines, so I can type 'g something' for searching Google and 'w something' for searching wikipedia etc.

  62. Missed the mark. by ryanw · · Score: 1

    I think these guys missed the mark by a long shot.

    People aren't just "searching" any more. People have "apps", "portals", they have go-to places to get things. Google isn't where you go any more. People know what websites they want to use or they use the iPad or iPhone apps to find things. I believe it's the "app" revolution that changed the dynamics. People go to wikipedia to research stuff, open one of their apps to find a recipe for dinner or ask siri what to get for lunch.

  63. Maybe? by TraumaFox · · Score: 1

    I don't find myself using Google less, but I certainly do rely on specialized social sites for specific information more so now than before. Generally when I want the answer to a specific question, Google can't always give it to me, and there are places I can go to get a straight answer faster than having to figure out the exact wording I need to use to get Google to pull up some forum post from 2005 that may or may not be related to the question I asked in the first place.

    Example: If a domain you own expires and is deleted, does your personal information disappear from WHOIS records? Google doesn't know. The millions of results it generates are just about people complaining that their personal information is available under WHOIS and the only thing they can do about it is pay a recurring fee to a proxy service to hide it. I guarantee not a single one of you can find the answer to that question on Google no matter how you phrase it. Yet in less than the amount of time you've taken to read this comment, I could have gotten the answer just by asking someone (you don't need to answer it, it was just an example).