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US Air Force Buys iPads To Replace Flight Bags

redletterdave writes "Following the precedent set by commercial airliners, the U.S. Air Force plans to buy up to 18,000 iPads for its Air Mobility Command (AMC), replacing heavy flight bags with light and efficient Apple iPad 2s for the crews that fly cargo aircraft. The devices will reportedly be used by the crews on the C-5 Galaxy and C-17 Globemaster aircraft. There are several benefits to using electronic flight bags instead of physical versions. For one, the iPad can instantly update charts electronically, while the AMC would require flying charts get reprinted every 28 days to stay up-to-date. By cutting publication printing and distribution costs, and exchanging 70 pounds of paper for a 1.3-pound iPad, the Air Force can save some serious cash, including more than $1.2 million worth of fuel per year."

348 comments

  1. Battery by Picardo85 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But printed charts and manuals don't have an 8-10 hour battery time ...

    1. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's OK man - they can spend $1.2 million recharging them!

    2. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... and an iPad 2 probably does not constitute even adequate emergency airsickness gear...

    3. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't have electrical power in your plane you got much more serious problems than to worry about a dead iPad battery I believe.

    4. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) I'm sure there's a charger onboard.
      b) these flights would sooner run out of fuel than iPad battery juice

      With 3G/WIFI/Notifications/Push Email off you can make it last more than a week as a reference book. iPad has a 30 day standby battery life.

    5. Re:Battery by jjohnson · · Score: 0, Troll

      Really? 5, Insightful, for making the totally obvious point that electronic devices have limited battery lifespans, and that any plan to use electronic devices in a particular environment should take account of that fact? This is what passes for highly rated commentary on /.? Does anyone really think that the Air Force hasn't incorporated this little fact into their planning?

      I look forward to Picardo85's other stunning observations, such as how the routine use of food prevents starvation.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    6. Re:Battery by grouchomarxist · · Score: 1

      The iPad 2 has a battery life of around 10 hours continuous use. I don't think they plan on using them continuously.

    7. Re:Battery by AshtangiMan · · Score: 1

      I can't help but think that if the goal is to have electronic versions of the manuals and charting there are better choices available, but the iPad gets picked because everybody wants one. I would have hoped that the US Military would look to open source solutions . . . .

    8. Re:Battery by idontgno · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, I'm not an aircraft engineer (either ground or flight), but I really don't remember 120v 60hz AC service routinely available on most military aircraft I've flown in. The stuff I've seen is 120 Vac at 400hz or 28 Vdc.

      I suppose a multi-billion dollar program to retrofit all these AMC aircraft to include US household current on the flight decks of the current transport aircraft inventory wouldn't be all bad...

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    9. Re:Battery by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Great opportunity for the Chinese government to backdoor via Foxconn, etc.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    10. Re:Battery by idontgno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're not an Air Force veteran, are you?

      Yeah, it's actually quite reasonable to question whether the issue of battery life and providing mains power in an airplane has even been considered. It's fairly routine for system acquisition agencies to overlook little technicalities like this.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    11. Re:Battery by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They can probably keep them powered while they fly. MY concern would be that some glitch (or an EMP from solar storm, or something) would cause them to fail, in which case the only real backup is... a paper chart. Which would mean they have to buy charts anyway, and won't actually save any money.

      Maybe they think having 2-3 of them on board at a time constitutes "backup". Who knows? All I know is that I'd want a paper chart to be there. Just in case.

    12. Re:Battery by Picardo85 · · Score: 2

      I look forward to Picardo85's other stunning observations, such as how the routine use of food prevents starvation.

      I too was a bit shocked by getting 5 for insightful. But yeah, I do have other contributions to /. that have been of more value than that obvious post, so don't worry. I'm not just here to steal your mod points. ;-)

    13. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want something that works today and that someone else keeps up-to-date and compatible (read iPad3, 4, 5..),
        not something that might work tomorrow on your customized hardware if someone writes the software...

    14. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And printed charts and manuals don't need to be hardened against EMP.

    15. Re:Battery by narcc · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd be happy if they looked at a secure solution!

      The only tablets with FIPS certification right now are the Blackberry Playbook (which it had ages ago) and the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 (which just got certified last month).

      Apple said they were working on getting FIPS certification back in 2010, but that never materialized.

    16. Re:Battery by dwywit · · Score: 2

      S'funny - I thought ipads charged at USB current and voltage.
       
      I'd have thought even the USAF wouldn't be stupid enough NOT to take mid-air charging into account when they were considering this, although a mil-spec 120VAC/400Hz or 28Vdc to USB plugpack will probably cost $40,000 each when the supply contracts are signed.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    17. Re:Battery by lightknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously. Perhaps it is just a fantasy I've held since I was younger, but I would have thought the military would have developed their own systems, designed to survive Armageddon. The thought of a military officer touting an Apple iPad into battle is a little...strange; I mean, they are cargo aircraft, but still. All we need are some Hal-branded headphones, and Twitter-enabled position locators, and the image shall be complete.

       

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    18. Re:Battery by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Yes, like getting shot down over enemy territory, with a map that will only last 9 hours. 300 kilometers, 9 hours, yeah, that's doable.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    19. Re:Battery by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      There's no reason to not keep an annually updated paper copy in the plane, in addition to the monthly updated digital copy. I think the bigger problem is going to come from battery replacements - which isn't as easy as just swapping in a new battery pack when the current one goes dead. You have to plug it in to a wall for 2-4 hours to bet to 50% charge first.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    20. Re:Battery by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Well, my first response to that would be "How secure is the rest of the plane to an EMP blast?", because if charts are all you got and the remaining electronics just got fried, I'd guess you're in big trouble anyway. These are after all cargo planes, they're not what you plan to use on your front lines. Your RORO ships aren't exactly the best at naval warfare either....

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    21. Re:Battery by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      28 day shelf life versus 8-10 hour battery that can be charged trivially with one of the most standardized interfaces in the world.

      --
      Good-bye
    22. Re:Battery by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it's crossed someone's mind. Though it's not like these are the first tablet computers our military has purchased.

      Also, I'd expect there's a serious auditing process for anything that deals with sensitive information.

    23. Re:Battery by icebike · · Score: 0

      The article also says:

      By cutting publication printing and distribution costs, and exchanging 70 pounds of paper for a 1.3-pound iPad, the Air Force can save some serious cash, including more than $1.2 million worth of fuel per year."

      I seriously doubt you could even measure the fuel savings of kicking 70 pounds off a C5 or C17.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    24. Re:Battery by icebike · · Score: 1

      The shelf life is much longer than 28 days for the paper. Not ALL of it gets updated, just some pages.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    25. Re:Battery by limaxray · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1) EFBs typically run on ship power during flight
      2) An aircraft will have at least 2 EFBs in operation at a time - pilot and copilot. Some aircraft have a 3rd EFB for a center screen.
      3) Many of the dedicated EFB tablets that have been in use for years are powered by NiMh batteries (out of fear of Li-Ion) and last less than an hour on a charge. Since they rarely run on batteries, this has not been much of an issue to the best of my knowledge.

    26. Re:Battery by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Um, if you've got 28Vdc, would you really need much more than a Zener diode and a resistor?

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    27. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti-apple fanbois will take every opportunity they can to make a snarky remark. Logic and reason are not required.

    28. Re:Battery by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      Do you think 70 lbs of paper maps is a better item to help you through 300 kilometers of enemy territory? Or do you figure that, in between the shooting down and the crash landing, you'll flip through those 70 lbs of paper maps and take only the really important ones?

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    29. Re:Battery by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      +1 for having a sense of humour and perspective, Picardo85 :)

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    30. Re:Battery by rossdee · · Score: 2

      "b) these flights would sooner run out of fuel than iPad battery juice"

      I guess you've never heard of air to air refueling.

    31. Re:Battery by couchslug · · Score: 1

      They aren't absolutely necessary. Aircrew have multiple ways (called "multiple radios") of knowing what's going on at their destination if they are pub-less.

      Shipping.printing, updating and schlepping pubs is a rather large hassle and won't be missed.

      IANAP (I Am Not A Pilot) but did flightline fighter maintenance for 26 years. (Avionics, engines, crew chief.)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    32. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well maybe the person who thought of this idea was also listening to Apple's arguments that the Galaxy Tab was identical to the iPad and thought that since the Tab was FIPS certified then the iPad must be as well because they're the same thing.

    33. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously doubt there is only ONE C5 or ONE C17 flight a year... or maybe you have a secret you are not sharing... like your parents heritage?

    34. Re:Battery by Darth_brooks · · Score: 1

      70 lbs is 70 lbs regardless. Weight is *always* paramount when flying. Doesn't matter if it's a C-5 or an ultralight.

      --
      There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
    35. Re:Battery by plover · · Score: 2

      To quote Vizzini from The Princess Bride, "You'd like to think that, wouldn't you!?!"

      --
      John
    36. Re:Battery by SomePgmr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So long as we don't get involved in a land war in Asia, I think we're gtg.

    37. Re:Battery by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Hey, this is the military we're talking about. Just be glad they're not being purchased as replacements for parachutes.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    38. Re:Battery by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Sometimes these planes actually are used on the front lines. Sometimes they're even used as bombers.

    39. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was flying we had lots of power, but we didn't have any "standard outlets", nor did we have any USB ports. Of course, I've been out a while, maybe those are more common now.

    40. Re:Battery by Loadmaster · · Score: 5, Informative

      The C-17 has plenty of standard outlets on-board. There are two at the Load station and outlets every couple of feet above the sidewall seats. Plenty of outlets to be had.

      I know, because I was a C-17 Load.

      You know what it didn't have? A fucking microwave. Had a convection oven but no microwave.

    41. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      3 words. "single point of failure"

    42. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's four, dude.

    43. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you measure? You know the effect of each 1000 lb for example, and take a fraction of that. Then you multiply fleet air hours.
      Now that wasn't so hard was it?

    44. Re:Battery by icebike · · Score: 0

      You would have to measure, because 70 pounds is so small you couldn't possibly do the math with enough confidence.
      They worry about burn rate per hour in these planes, nobody does the math to the last pound unless they are flying right at max.
      These are big airplanes. Any tiny difference in pilot flying style would have a far bigger effect than 70 additional pounds. Does he put the gear down 20 seconds before the fleet average? Does he run up two seconds longer than average? Does he plan his route thru high pressure cells, into headwinds, or does fly like a bus driver? Does the loadmaster balance the load to the closest 100 pounds, or merely to the closest pallet?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    45. Re:Battery by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      So what that be auditing amongst the, hey who's getting paid what to do this deal. Seriously by an overpriced product that leads to lock in? So are they paying to download 'shh it our secrets' app from the apple store for every user.

      Realistic hardware and software should have been a completely separate purchase decision. Ideally Linux with just enough left over in the kernel to do the job required, not one scrap more.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    46. Re:Battery by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      would you really need much more than a Zener diode and a resistor?

      not unless you care about density and power efficiency....

      assume that the thing takes in 1A or 5W
      you have (28V-5V)*1A = 23W to dissipate out of your (23W/1A/1A)=23 ohms resistor

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    47. Re:Battery by mirix · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want to do it in the most horribly inefficient fashion, yeah, that will work.

      Shunt regulators really suck for anything other than minuscule amounts of current, for a reference as example.

      A shunt reg has to burn more than just the voltage drop (the extra in the zener, to keep the voltage level). It has to be sized to draw slightly more than the device's maximum draw at all times.
      So - say full load on the ipad is 2A, idle is 1A. We design this to draw say 2.2A, a little room so it doesn't drop out on peak - so we're burning 28V * 2.2A = 62W all the time, while the ipad is getting 5W average, or 10W peak (out of the 62W).
      8% efficiency at idle. 16% at full load.

      A better setup is a normal linear reg (which can be made up of discrete parts, or integrated like the venerable 7805), which will basically only burn the drop (there is a small amount for ref, but basically negligible)
      So 23V drop * 1A draw = 23W burnt. total consumption 28W.
      ~18% efficiency at idle or full load (this one is linear..)

      Typically you wouldn't do this though, you'd use a transformer off the AC supply (assuming their is one) to get the voltage into the ballpark, then rectify and reg, to get efficiency up over 50%, maybe as much as 80% with decent design and low dropout reg. (transformers are heavy and bulky though - which is why planes use 400Hz).

      SMPS is of course, the best, some modes exceeding 90% efficiency - but that didn't always exist. A lot of old military transceivers used dynamotors, which is the most efficient non-transistorized way to do DC-DC conversion. kinda... funny in a way, so very primitive, but also sort of genius. brute-brilliance, i guess... Heavy, loud, and high maintenance, though.

      guess i rambled a bit much... hope it helps.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    48. Re:Battery by gumbi+west · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good thing they have a fleet to average over.

    49. Re:Battery by Nimey · · Score: 1

      Not C-5s and C-17s. C-130s, yes.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    50. Re:Battery by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      Is FIPS that important ? In my application servers I have a FIPS compliance mode, disabled by default, I have enabled it and nothing changed as far as my applications are concerned, when you read the documentation the only thing stated is that the setting enables FIPS compliance. I guess that if I had used one of the weak cypher available in that application server the FIPS mode could have protected me but that is only speculation as I did not....

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    51. Re:Battery by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      And I forgot to add: it is a big fucking airplane so I approve of your low tech, 2.15$ (I over-spec the wattage of the resistor and the current rating of the Zener, as it is for the military after all) for one unit solution !

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    52. Re:Battery by milkmage · · Score: 1

      right. backdoor. to charts... updated every 28 days to "stay current" - hardly top secret shit.
      "For one, the iPad can instantly update charts electronically, while the AMC would require flying charts to be reprinted every 28 days to stay up to date."
      orders to nuke moscow aren't going to be FAXed.

      military pilots need the same charts as the guy flying trinkets out of china.

      SEVENTY fucking pounds. a ream of paper for your office copier weighs 5-7 lbs... 500 pages! even if i didn't have to carry it I'd probably get pretty upset if i had to use it. 70 fucking pounds.. 5000 pages.. WTF that's just stupid.. i'll be they carry charts for every route there is regardless of the fact that they fly between san francisco and LA 15 times a day.

      The White House issued an executive order on Nov. 9 that U.S. agencies curb their spending by "limit[ing] the publication and printing of hard copy documents" and to provide that information "in an electronic form, whenever practicable." By cutting publication printing and distribution costs, and exchanging 70 pounds of paper for a 1.3-pound iPad, the Air Force can save some serious cash -- more than $1.2 million worth of fuel per year.

    53. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      .... The thought of a military officer touting an Apple iPad into battle is a little ....

      I think you meant "toting", not "touting"

    54. Re:Battery by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. They do get sent to forward air bases and are used for dropping paratroopers. I don't think dropping paratroopers into enemy territory is a tactic the US military uses any more because it's dominated by a risk averse philosophy and pretty much only takes part in asymmetric warfare where it vastly overpowers the enemy. So that role is pretty much limited to training exercises. That could change however. These aren't just cargo planes, they're _military_ cargo planes, so the plan should always be that they'll be ready to put on the front lines even if, right now, they're always operating in thoroughly controlled airspace.

    55. Re:Battery by mistiry · · Score: 1

      IDK why the above post is moderated funny, +5 Insightful seems much more fitting...

    56. Re:Battery by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      iPads are actually pretty tough. I bought one because it met my needs and I didn't have to worry about the kids breaking it. It is aluminum and glass, pretty tough materials.

    57. Re:Battery by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      5000 pages a year.

    58. Re:Battery by digitallife · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. An iPad recharges at about 1%/minute, and lasts for about 6minutes/1%. Plugging it in for 10 minutes gets you an hour of use - its at 50% in 50 minutes - and it will last for about 10 hours before needing to be plugged in (of constant use - a month in sleep mode). There's no way the battery is going to be an issue for them.

    59. Re:Battery by MacTO · · Score: 1

      They may use iPads, but they may end up being heavily modified for security, durability, and longevity (e.g. battery life).

    60. Re:Battery by MacTO · · Score: 4, Funny

      Uh, this is an Apple product we're talking about. Of course they will be touting it in battle. And the enemy forces will probably kill the American soldiers to put an end to the Apple evangelism.

    61. Re:Battery by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      100 minutes (by your measure) is still within my 2-4 hour range. Lithium batteries slow down their charge rate tremendously after about 60-70%. Also being used by government employees, they're likely to run the batteries dry and leave them dead for weeks, crippling the battery. How you baby your precious iPad and how someone who was issued it as standard equipment with no financial investment treats theirs are two completely different use cases. There is a reason why people pay attention when you say "military grade hardware".

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    62. Re:Battery by milkmage · · Score: 1

      i don't think so.. 40 POUND FLIGHT BAGS

      "In the cockpit, pilots are using [iPads]," Cook said. "They're replacing 40-pound flight bags full of paper manuals and log books and navigation charts and checklists, making the pilot more efficient and making the plane more fuel efficient.."

      I've seen commercial pilots wheeling their bags double stacked.. it's not just maps or stuff pertinent to the immediate trip... bet they never get more than 100 pages in to the stack, and i don't see the need to make monthly copies of a largish flight manual and rule book: "Flight bags typically contain flight manuals, technical orders, regulations, and various other flight-related materials that add weight to the flight, which burns more of the aircraft's fuel."

    63. Re:Battery by raehl · · Score: 1

      If you get shot down in enemy territory, you're not going anywhere. You're going to either make friends with the locals, if possible, or hide until someone comes to get you.

      What you are absolutely, positively, NOT going to try and do is travel 300 kilometers.

      And even if you WERE going to try and do so, you'd probably steal a map while you were stealing food and/or a car.

    64. Re:Battery by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      "There's no reason to not keep an annually updated paper copy in the plane"

      except that one of the claimed benefits is a saving in fuel due to the reduced weight of the ipad...

    65. Re:Battery by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I think they're claiming the benefit of removing the cost printing and shipping (i.e. shipping weight, cost to fedex or ups it to where the plane is currently) of the new copies to the bases. 50lbs of added weight is well below the threshold of margin of error on a C-5 Galaxy which has a maximum takeoff weight of 840,000 lbs (i.e. 84% of one million pounds). This is roughly equivalent to arguing that a single spiral notebook would notably decrease the mileage on a greyhound bus.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    66. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You said 2-4 hours to get to 50%. The rest of the things you say are virtually irrelevant; if the battery is 'abused' and stops holding a charge it can be replaced easily enough. I doubt that would happen, even under the most abusive circumstances, in less than a year.

    67. Re:Battery by Message · · Score: 1

      They did as recently as 2003, http://treatanysoldier.com/Brian/Iraq/

      And that is just conventional forces, SOF probably more so.

    68. Re:Battery by mpe · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm not an aircraft engineer (either ground or flight), but I really don't remember 120v 60hz AC service routinely available on most military aircraft I've flown in. The stuff I've seen is 120 Vac at 400hz or 28 Vdc.
      I suppose a multi-billion dollar program to retrofit all these AMC aircraft to include US household current on the flight decks of the current transport aircraft inventory wouldn't be all bad...


      Since the device actually needs 5Vdc it's going to need a converter anyway. Also a device to convert 120Vac to 5Vdc may or may not care what the frequency is.

    69. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, I guarantee you that it is all reprinted and the old paper disposed of.

    70. Re:Battery by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I'd have thought even the USAF wouldn't be stupid enough NOT to take mid-air charging into account when they were considering this, although a mil-spec 120VAC/400Hz or 28Vdc to USB plugpack will probably cost $40,000 each when the supply contracts are signed.

      Nasty secret - that 28VDC power adapter would just be a repurposed truck one.

      We consider a car to have a 12V battery, but the system operates at 14V while the engine is running (to charge the battery). It's why you find a lot of portable gear running at 13.8V - they run just fine at 12V, but are designed for engine-run where the engine is running.

      Trucks and planes normally use a 24V battery, and often have their power points marked as 28V because that'll be the voltage when the alternator is running. There's nothing special otherwise.

      Of course, for cars, there's a lot of talk that since cars have increasing electrical loads, to move the entire system to a 48V system (56V on alternator).

      I'm sure the US Air Force can find a lot of truck USB adapters that work for iPad.

    71. Re:Battery by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yep that's why my friend is on his third one.

      Sure he mistreats it, but have you ever seen how someone uses a piece of work equipment as opposed to personal equipment? There's a reason companies advertise IP ratings on devices. There's a reason why military laptops look like this I don't expect an iPad to last more than a month in a work environment that isn't some manager's desk without some form of protection.

    72. Re:Battery by petman · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is good. Hopefully this will give the airlines the idea of installing USB ports in the planes for charging purposes.

    73. Re:Battery by petman · · Score: 1

      Oops, my bad. I had glanced at the headline and summary and somehow had the impression that they're talking about crews of a commercial airline.

    74. Re:Battery by dwywit · · Score: 1

      Hmmm - I know nothing of aircraft electricity systems (I live off-grid with solar PV +batteries @ nominal 24VDC and 240VAC), but is that on-board 28VDC a reasonably stable figure? i.e. is it a regulated supply? If so, then in-flight ipad charging isn't an issue. As someone else pointed out, a zener diode and a resistor would fit the bill. You could even supply an emergency charge pack containing n multiples of AA cells.
       
      As for cars running at nominal 48VDC, isn't that above the value that can deliver a "shock" to humans? Can you imagine the reaction from insurance companies if that's the case?

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    75. Re:Battery by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Man, that sucks. No popcorn on long flights!

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    76. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or a $30 airplane outlet that you can buy at any number of airports, radio shack, and other electronic outlets. I bet if you buy 5 million you can get a bulk deal for $10 a per.

    77. Re:Battery by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      The military could make their own proprietary stuff and the chips would still end up being made in China. Even if they ordered the contractor not to do it, there would eventually be a subcontractor somewhere down the line who would.

    78. Re:Battery by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Same reason why I buy maps even though I have a GPS.

      This is the military we're talking about. Two for twice the price... plus backups.

    79. Re:Battery by jonbryce · · Score: 3, Informative

      They have to carry charts for every airfield they might conceivably need to do an emergency landing in.

    80. Re:Battery by h5inz · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should have considered something that uses electronic ink display. The picture would remain the same when the battery ran out or even when the internal electronics circuit failed somehow.

    81. Re:Battery by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no tension in North Korea...

    82. Re:Battery by atrain728 · · Score: 1

      These people are flight crews, not infantry. I think you can expect that they'll treat electronics issued to them with a modicum of respect.

    83. Re:Battery by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Picture the electrical generating facility on a large military cargo jet. Having trouble? It's a freakin' turbine, putting out plenty of surplus power. Whether each iPad takes 7.5W or 42W to charge is really immaterial to the pounds of fuel per hour consumed by the generator. And, cooling air is usually available in abundance, too.

      I'd bet the fuel savings calculation for the $1.2M/year from 70lbs per bag probably neglected the cost of charging the iPad while on-board, but 42W of electrical load is probably just about a wash with 70lbs of cargo - you certainly don't need 140lbs of fuel to generate an additional 42W for the duration of the flight.

    84. Re:Battery by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Oh, please, the border is to the East (or South, or wherever) - if you didn't have that much situational awareness when you went down, you deserve to be captured.

      A pocket compass, or the sun, is a hell of a lot better traveling companion on a 300km hike through the backwoods than an aviation chart.

      I navigated the back roads of East Germany on a bicycle in 1990 - heads up awareness of the surroundings served me much better than heads down map reading - though it's kind of nice to have both, if you're trying for a point target, if you're just headed for the border, especially a covert border crossing, it's probably better to end up at a slightly random point instead of something predictable on a map.

    85. Re:Battery by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      it's dominated by a risk averse philosophy and pretty much only takes part in asymmetric warfare where it vastly overpowers the enemy.

      What do you expect from an all volunteer force?

    86. Re:Battery by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Long term availability must be an issue too. This kind of hardware is usually only manufactured for a couple of years before being replaced, at which point you have to re-certify everything from the hardware to the software, assuming they carry on making a similar product.

      In contrast there are plenty of 50+ year old aircraft in service. The parts are still available and the military has the spec so they can get other companies to make them if required. I doubt Apple will be sharing their CPU designs... I'm sure the Air Force has a plan, I'd just love to know what it is.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    87. Re:Battery by Deorus · · Score: 1

      That's easy, create an external battery iPad cover. There's one for the iPhone, for example, which solves your battery replacement problems. Once you run out of juice in the cover (which can take ages, given how much room the iPad's size and thinness would give custom power cover designers to stuff in extra batteries), at least there are still 10 hours of active-use battery juice in the device itself to go.

    88. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they'll never find a place on a C-17 to charge an iPad. And as if the flight time of a C-17 is longer than the battery life of a fully charged iPad?

    89. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      They already "rug-idize" iPads. There are plenty of third party kits and there are plenty of special forces and vanilla infantry units that use iPads/Android tablets in the field already.

    90. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I was in the military and the military grade batteries for our gps devices and night vision were pitiful. I think soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen would be overjoyed to have an electronic device that actually functions for more than a couple of hours per charge for once.

    91. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I used to fly Charleston - San Francisco several times a year on a C-17 back in the mid-90s. I charged my Power Book the entire way. If I remember correctly, there was an outlet every few feet along the side (the flip down seats that come down from the sides of the fuselage) that charged our consumer electronics just fine.

    92. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      With standard outlets, you could have gone to the BX and bought one of those cheapie dorm microwaves and brought it with you.

    93. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      In any case, the iPad battery juice lasts longer than the pilots-can-stay-awake juice.

    94. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt you could even measure the fuel savings of kicking 70 pounds off a C5 or C17.

      You've never met a Load Master, or had to go through a Load Master's course, have you?

    95. Re:Battery by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You aren't paying attention. According to the geniuses in this thread, a) there are no standard outlets on a C-17 worthy of charging an iPad, and b) you can't charge an iPad off the USB port of a laptop. Therefore, not only is it unpossible to charge an iPad on a C-17, but also, ALIENS!

    96. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the unemployed printers and distributors??? And what about their children!!!!

    97. Re:Battery by Ignorant+Aardvark · · Score: 1

      Was the lack of a microwave caused by fears of interference with the aircraft? If microwaves can interfere with WiFi, I imagine they could wreak havoc on an airplane's electronics systems. Just not worth the chance?

    98. Re:Battery by tomboalogo · · Score: 0

      If there is an AC supply (your assumption) - couldn't ya just plug in the iPad charger?

    99. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just that, but they also have to carry their aircraft specific technical orders. It really is a lot of paper they are bringing up with them, I have been advocating that it would be cheaper to use touchpads for years.

      I would like them to develop their own, but if apple has already done the R&D, why bother building your own.

    100. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We laugh, but wait till you see the 5000 km long extension cord coming off the tail of the aircraft.

    101. Re:Battery by Loadmaster · · Score: 1

      Then I would've had to carry it around with me everywhere. Anything other than your A-3 bags (life support stuff in case you were shot down or went to a different environment) you had to carry with you. There was a chance you wouldn't be coming back to that location so we had to carry all our stuff with us every time we flew. Bringing a microwave sounds like a good idea (as does bringing an inflatable mattress) until you have to drag it around.

    102. Re:Battery by Loadmaster · · Score: 1

      Probably. I left in 2006, but at that time there was talk a microwave was going to be installed. I don't know if they did or not.

    103. Re:Battery by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      50 watt resistors and 10 watt zeners aren't free and may be a fire hazard. A more efficient converter will eventually save its tiny additional cost in fuel savings.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    104. Re:Battery by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Measure fuel use at 0 and 70,000 pound loads. Divide the difference by 1000, and you have the additional fuel use caused by 70 pounds. It's called interpolation, and its use is standard and accepted in a wide range of applications.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    105. Re:Battery by icebike · · Score: 1

      Weigh of an aircraft is not fixed.
      It varies during the flight.
      You never fully top off a bird that big, so you never actually know to the last pound your actual take off weigh.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    106. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 minutes is within your 2-4 hour range? How many minutes are in your hour?!

    107. Re:Battery by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      On a trip of over 1000 miles in a small plane, the paper charts weighed less than half a pound, not 70 pounds.

      70 pounds might cover a good part of the world. But you wouldn't need that for any 300 km trip.

    108. Re:Battery by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      The 70 lb package is apparently the standard package of charts that military cargo pilots carried on every flight.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    109. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      couldnt we just prevent emergency landings by not giving them charts?

    110. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you bring me a cup of coffee?

    111. Re:Battery by Tyndmyr · · Score: 1

      Was air force through 2011, 2T2...still hadn't seen microwaves on any of the C-17s I was on. That said, I still don't get the worry about charging an ipad.

      --
      Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
    112. Re:Battery by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      50 watt resistors and 10 watt zeners aren't free and may be a fire hazard. A more efficient converter will eventually save its tiny additional cost in fuel savings.

      You are, of course, neglecting the cost of acquisition. If a regulator using a 50W resistor and 10W zener are in stores ready to use, they will be a couple of hundred thousand dollars cheaper (supplier qualification, approvals, etc.) to deploy than a new design. Not saying that a more advanced design isn't better from a technical standpoint, and justifiable by any rational thinking person, just that it might not be necessary or cost effective in the real world deployment.

    113. Re:Battery by Tyndmyr · · Score: 1

      70 pounds less is still 70 pounds less. I'll grant that it's well within possible error margins for the overall aircraft load, but it's still something they're concerned about. I'm sure you could calculate a pretty good estimate of the cash saved by this. It's quite possible that other savings are available as well(in fact, being the AF, it's almost certain they're doing at least something inefficiently), but that doesn't make this a bad move.

      --
      Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
    114. Re:Battery by Tyndmyr · · Score: 1

      And that's why we use things like "average" and "estimate".

      --
      Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
    115. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you've clearly never worked in acquisitions. The "little" technicalities would be things like operating and non-operating temperatures, connector wear, visibility when using night vision goggles, ability to use when wearing protective equipment, etc., and all of these are reviewed enough times to make you dizzy (or an order of magnitude more it it's a joint program). Considering that this is something for use on the flight deck, that adds another layer of reviews and certifications. These programs are more likely to get their funding cut and restored than they are to overlook a major technical component (though, in fairness, everything gets its funding cut these days).

    116. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ILS Localizers work on Microwave-range frequencies. Sure, you wouldn't always hit the same frequency, but there's enough risk for interference that it wouldn't be a good idea.

    117. Re:Battery by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Okay... but why in the world would you want to carry it with you if you were shot down?

    118. Re:Battery by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      Well, that was exactly my point to the poster above arguing that the 70 lb. paper package was somehow superior to a 3 lb. iPad with maps installed.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    119. Re:Battery by cozmicsherpa · · Score: 1

      I was on a team tasked with developing a custom version of an iPad like device and its cost prohibitive compared to buying something that's already tested and consumer frindly. Kudos to the AF for doing this.

    120. Re:Battery by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      They're buying them to use as knee-boards. I bought a $200, Wal-Mart Android tablet to use for the same purpose. They'll be looking at the same sectionals and airport charts that I and every other pilot in THE WORLD will be looking at. The clearances they jot down will look the same as every other pilot's.

      No one will be transferring secret, self-destruct messages on these things.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    121. Re:Battery by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Except, there are at least two pilots, who each have one, and possibly an extra stowed somewhere in the cockpit.

      Last I checked, sectionals are $8 or $9 a piece, and you need a LOT of them to fly cargo. A book of plates about the same. They get replaced a LOT. All that paper is a PIA in a cockpit. The fuel savings is minor compared to the cost of all this.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    122. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C17s and C5s both have 120v x 60hz readily available. Even in the cargo bay.

    123. Re:Battery by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Planes get hit by LIGHTNING on a fairly regular basis without the electronics inside getting fried, and people call from the cell phones to tell friends and family that their trip will be delayed. What sort of EMP pulse are you thinking about?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    124. Re:Battery by tragedy · · Score: 1

      I don't expect anything different. It's a logical strategy for winning conventional wars if you can afford it.

    125. Re:Battery by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Ok. There we go then. Article says they used a C-17. So it looks like they still do get used on the front lines.

    126. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already "rug-idize" iPads.

      You mean to say that they wrap them in carpet? Swank.

      {"Ruggedize" is an actual word. Look it up.}

    127. Re:Battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd assumed as much. I read recently that various commercial airlines do the same thing using ipads too.

    128. Re:Battery by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Funniest thing I've read all day.

    129. Re:Battery by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And this has what to do with my comment that a stock standard iPad is not very tough? Or did you miss the bit where I said "some form of protection"?

    130. Re:Battery by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Haha. Okay. I see we aren't on the same channel here.

      What I mean was: there is no need to lug 70 pounds. You just take the 1 or two charts for whatever areas you will be covering on foot.

  2. Flight door... by Nittle · · Score: 5, Funny

    What about when they have to turn them off when the flight door is closed?

    1. Re:Flight door... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you flew, the 90s? Last international flight I took I was allowed to use my mobile phone to make a call mid-flight. I had good reception too given the local phone cell in the plane, and WiFi internet too.

  3. They should wait a few more months by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The people who have been sniffing around Apple's supply chain say that the iPad3 will have a 2048x1572 screen, etc ... so why not get the iPad2 cheaper, or get the iPad3 for its better display, etc.?

    --
    Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
    1. Re:They should wait a few more months by grouchomarxist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Have you actually gone through the military procurement system? They probably ordered these when the iPad (1) was announced.

    2. Re:They should wait a few more months by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      And have you seen the military budget? I don't expect people who spend $800 on toilet seats are going to worry about getting a discount on old iPads...

    3. Re:They should wait a few more months by Curlsman · · Score: 4, Funny

      They ordered Newtons...

    4. Re:They should wait a few more months by solios · · Score: 1

      Have you actually gone through the military procurement system? They probably ordered these when the Newton was announced.

      FTFY

    5. Re:They should wait a few more months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the article mentions that the AMC wants to purchase "a minimum of 63 and a maximum of 18,000, iPad 2, Brand Name or Equal devices." AMC's public affairs director, Lt. Col. Glen Roberts, clarified the report, stating the command "is looking for a tablet device, not necessarily an iPad." Seeing how the Army is already adopting Android as its official mobile OS it probably won't even be an Apple device.

  4. Hrmm.. by mirix · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They should probably keep paper around, even if it isn't updated as often, as a backup.

    It's going to suck to have nothing when your batteries die or the software fails.

    $1.2M of fuel seems like a drop in the bucket for the amount of birds they keep in the air, and one falling out of it is worth far more.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
    1. Re:Hrmm.. by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The FAAs position with other carriers has been that there has to be an alternate source of the information, and at least one company has gotten by with a second ipad as that source. So, I imagine that the Air Force will have to either continue to lug around the paper, or the will have to have two ipads. Personally, i wouldn't find it worth the hassle and would just use the paper charts.
      Alternatively, they could buy an actual piece of equipment designed from the ground up and rigorously tested for exactly this purpose and which is permanently in the cockpit and can also be updated via subscription services. But then they wouldn't have toy ipads to play with at taxpayers expense.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    2. Re:Hrmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drop in the bucket? That's probably nearly a quarter of a Mitt's worth of tax savings, my friend.

    3. Re:Hrmm.. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Something designed for this is going to cost a hell of a lot more than $500. Paper charts are far less convenient. Try doing a search on a paper book, for a term not in the index.

      This seems like win win. Taxpayers save by using COTS tech and crews get ipads.

    4. Re:Hrmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont think the military to be dumb. There maybe lots of red tape and redundancy but plain dumb is not it. Thats like saying hey fighter pilot fly this plane without going to school first for it.

    5. Re:Hrmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Air Force isn't governed by the FAA.

    6. Re:Hrmm.. by xs650 · · Score: 1

      There is enough excess electrical power on aircraft to run an iPad or 50 so batteries aren't a problem. If the pilot, co-pilot and loadmaster have ipads, then 1 or 2 of them failing wouldn't endanger the mission.

    7. Re:Hrmm.. by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Alternatively, they could buy an actual piece of equipment designed from the ground up and rigorously tested for exactly this purpose and which is permanently in the cockpit and can also be updated via subscription services. But then they wouldn't have toy ipads to play with at taxpayers expense.

      Are you referring to an existing device that's cheaper than an iPad, or just taking a pot-shot?

    8. Re:Hrmm.. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have to say, it reminds me of the comment an ex-Signals guy doing his amateur radio licence at the local club made, along the lines of "a map with a bullethole in it is a map that's still mostly accurate, but a laptop with a bullethole in it is really just too big to be a useful paperweight"

    9. Re:Hrmm.. by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      The Air Force cooperates with and submits to the authority of the FAA except during national emergencies and within designated Military Operation Areas (in which they usually still keep the FAA abreast of their intended activities).

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    10. Re:Hrmm.. by mirix · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of a situation when you've lost power, perhaps some sort of EMP has taken out your iPads too.

      Might want a paper map to find somewhere nice to put 'er down, no..?

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    11. Re:Hrmm.. by PPH · · Score: 2

      Alternate source: So when the captain's iPad batteries go dead, you discover that the First Officer has been playing Angry Birds since departure.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:Hrmm.. by narcc · · Score: 1

      Try doing a search on a paper book, for a term not in the index.

      Try using a search in place of a proper index. I guaranteed you'll take the well-designed index every time.

    13. Re:Hrmm.. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      So, I imagine that the Air Force will have to either continue to lug around the paper, or the will have to have two ipads.

      Contact : S.R. Hadden: First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    14. Re:Hrmm.. by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They are not cheaper than an ipad. In fact they are much more expensive. However, they are designed for use in flight environments, they have input methods specifically designed for use in flight, they are rigorously tested for interference with other devices and certified for cockpit use by the FAA. They also have larger, easier to read displays that are designed to be used in cockpits where it can be either very dark, or the sun can be shining directly on it. They are also wired into the electronics system, can integrate with the autopilot and other aircraft devices, and are not loose in the cockpit. Finally, another plus is that many and possibly all C-5 and C-17 aircraft in operation already have them.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    15. Re:Hrmm.. by peragrin · · Score: 1

      if you lost power like that? you have lost control of 90%of the plane anyways, and your going to be landing really quickly. whether you want to or not.

      besides the ipad has a battery. If it is plugged in when the power goes out you still have 8 hours to land which is probably 2 times longer than the pilots are capable of handling one of those cargo planes for manually.

      think about it.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    16. Re:Hrmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.. when it comes to putting the aircraft into specific places in 3 dimensional space, but I wasn't referring to that. BTW, the AF follows the rules of any host nation. Most Air Force aircraft would never be certified by the FAA for flight in the NAS since they don't meet many of the requirements. Many aircraft have so many differences in the mission compared to what commercial aircraft do that there's a resulting substantial difference between military and civilian aircraft. In some ways, they far exceed requirements, but in others they fall far short. In terms of Electronic Flight Bags, the AF regulations specify that they will follow the Aviation Circular used by commercial entities, but it's by no means tied to it. EFB's have been used by the AF for many years now (far earlier than the airlines). They have been PC based in one form factor or another. The only reason this story has gotten so much attention is because it mentions the iPads. Even the airlines used EFB's up to a decade ago.

      By the way, don't forget that the AF and the FAA are the servant government. You are their boss. I don't like it when they are referred to as "authorities" because they are not. They work for you.

    17. Re:Hrmm.. by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Informative

      They are also wired into the electronics system, can integrate with the autopilot and other aircraft devices, and are not loose in the cockpit. Finally, another plus is that many and possibly all C-5 and C-17 aircraft in operation already have them.

      Which means that the iPad is replacing the paper copies as a backup system to start with. So, if the main system breaks, the iPad needs to work only long enough to find a reasonable field to land at, and not necessarily provide a full-flight's worth of operation. Considering that both pilots will have one, there will be two backups.

    18. Re:Hrmm.. by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Pubs don't cause aircraft to "fall out of the air" unless you beat the shit out of the pilot with the pub bag.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    19. Re:Hrmm.. by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      I always wonder when I hear stories like this.

      If you forget to put 70lb of paper in your bag you notice. If you forget your tablet PC you probably don't.

      If you drop 70lb of paper you have 70lb of paper on the floor to reassemble into a neat pile. If you drop your tablet PC you may or may not be able to reassemble it.

      If you step on 70lb of paper you get a little taller. If you step on your tablet PC it gets a little less operational.

      If you run out of bog roll at 40k feet you can borrow some of the paper. Try wiping with a tablet PC.

      What I wonder about is why don't they install some sort of computer in the plane permanently and make it part of the regular maintainence schedule to keep it running. Military grade hardware is available, and with a good SSD it would survive the most bumpy of rides without getting trashed. Let the captain plan his route on his tablet if he wants, but have him upload it into the onboard PC before he takes off.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    20. Re:Hrmm.. by Deorus · · Score: 1

      Try doing a search on a paper book, for a term not in the index.

      Try using a search in place of a proper index. I guaranteed you'll take the well-designed index every time.

      What exactly prevents you from using both at the same time? While you can't search easily in paper documentation, you can still (and it is actually quite common to) have an index in digital documentation, so digital documentation wins out. In fact, you can even search through multiple documents' indexes using Spotlight on the iPad! Where's the paper version of that?

    21. Re:Hrmm.. by Deorus · · Score: 1

      Alternate source: So when the captain's iPad batteries go dead, you discover that the First Officer has been playing Angry Birds since departure.

      Yes, because one thing airplanes don't produce is power... They fly by the power of the prayer!

    22. Re:Hrmm.. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Get the latest issue of KitPlanes. In the first article, you'll see that several of the GPS manufacturers have moved away from certification because the FAA's certification process is so onerous that it blocks innovation, and actually keeps useful features out of the cockpit.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    23. Re:Hrmm.. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      You do realize that airplanes are periodically hit by LIGHTNING, with no damage to internal electronics?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    24. Re:Hrmm.. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      What I wonder about is why don't they install some sort of computer in the plane permanently and make it part of the regular maintainence schedule to keep it running.

      Pre-flight planning. You actually need a lot of those maps for that activity.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  5. Oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    So that is what "Airplane Mode" does.

  6. In Soviet Russia by jmcbain · · Score: 1

    they use Android tablets.

  7. $1.2 million/year with $18,000 iPads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Each iPad saves them ~$67/year, or $330 over 5 years, by which time they'll be utterly outdated. I know this is a drop in the ocean cf. the military budget, but it is through tiny leaks like this that the ship sinks.

    1. Re:$1.2 million/year with $18,000 iPads by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Informative

      That is only the fuel, you forgot the cost of printing those books, distributing them, making sure the latest version is on each aircraft, replacing damaged copies, etc.

    2. Re:$1.2 million/year with $18,000 iPads by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I remember reading an article a while back by a retired USAF pilot where he wrote about the time spent making sure that all the manuals and other paperwork were up to date and the trouble he could get into if it wasn't when someone inspected the aircraft. So I'm guessing that could save more than $1.2 million dollars of aircrew time.

    3. Re:$1.2 million/year with $18,000 iPads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was always so much fun swapping pages in and out of the -1 and -9. And YES! Flight examiners loved to paw through your TOs looking for out of date pages and missing pen-and-ink changes. Perhaps now they will concentrate on whether or not you can do your job.

  8. Why not an E-Reader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't an e-reader like a Kindle be much more suitable for this, and be much less expensive? Battery life would be 10x better too, which is a big concern when you're dealing with something important like documentation for military hardware!

    1. Re:Why not an E-Reader? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You generally cannot role out your own apps for ereaders. Each book can be an app, this means you can update them using the enterprise app stores and all that jazz.

    2. Re:Why not an E-Reader? by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      These planes are huge. Why don't they build the device into the electronics of the plane? It would be a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the avionics already on board.

    3. Re:Why not an E-Reader? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Why don't they build the device into the electronics of the plane?
      Because they already did that, but the pilots don't get to play angry birds on the integrated devices.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  9. Massive loss by DogDude · · Score: 1

    Well, unless the USAF is paying $66.66 per iPad, the cost of the things alone (not to mention associated costs) far outstrips the fuel savings. Of course, they're going to re-purchase these things very, very frequently (as Apple averages only a few years of support per gadget), so there's no telling how much money, time, and possible operational problems, this bonehead move is going to waste.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Massive loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that a lot of the equipment on these planes was built in the 60s or earlier by companies that aren't even around anymore (let alone offer support), I don't see them being repurchased "very, very frequently". Of course, I also don't see them making a single iPad last 50 years, but somewhere between the two extremes lies some potential cost savings that they have analyzed, and we have not.

    2. Re:Massive loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, unless the USAF is paying $66.66 per iPad, the cost of the things alone (not to mention associated costs) far outstrips the fuel savings. Of course, they're going to re-purchase these things very, very frequently (as Apple averages only a few years of support per gadget), so there's no telling how much money, time, and possible operational problems, this bonehead move is going to waste.

      The flight bags are not free. It costs money to print out new material, that must be don't every month, and transport said material from the printing location to the pilots. You need add up printing saving + transport + fuel savings cost of iPads and support.

    3. Re:Massive loss by mirix · · Score: 1

      The planes weren't designed to be outdated in two years, though.

      I'd also imagine that a lot of the devices in planes, if it is anything like the old mil electronics I've come across... are contracted by the DoD to whoever, it doesn't matter if the company still exists - the DoD still has the specs and can get someone else to build replacement units (not to mention they over bought spare parts in the first place).
      I'd also imagine most outfits involved still exist in some way, perhaps swallowed by other massive defense contractors.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    4. Re:Massive loss by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1
      Tablets, at least for the purpose they're using them, also won't be outdated in two years. Many of the planes are running Falcon View on Windows 2000 on the original computers that came with Windows 98. Similarly, stuff like PASS3200 for analyzing 1553 data are sometimes still running their original Windows 95 computers even though they could easily be analyzed in Windows 7. There's just no need to. They're running the exact same stuff now as they were then, and so age is no factor.

      Now, if you're talking about being designed to *break* in two years, that might be a different story. But it would also be a story not as many people would be willing to swallow.

    5. Re:Massive loss by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      Right, totally, because fuel savings are the only savings they'll see. Not the cost of paper, or bags for carrying them, or recycling the paper every 28 days...

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
  10. E-paper by jader3rd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wouldn't a device with e-paper (Kindle, Nook, Sony Reader, etc) be a better replacement for books? Those devices have no glare, have all of the benefits listed, and all have a longer battery life.

    1. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're missing the point, which is to plug Apple.

    2. Re:E-paper by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then we wouldn't be dumping so much money into the Chinese economy.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    3. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well actually the article which TFA refers to points out, "AMC said in a notice posted on the Federal Business Opportunities website Thursday that it planned to buy "a minimum of 63 and a maximum of 18,000, iPad 2, Brand Name or Equal devices" for the crews that fly cargo aircraft such as the C-5 Galaxy and C-17 Globemaster. Lt. Col. Glen Roberts, AMC public affairs director, said the command "is looking for a tablet device, not necessarily an iPad."

      So it's not a done deal for Apple, yet.

    4. Re:E-paper by Picardo85 · · Score: 1

      The iPad is made in China too, your argument is invalid.

    5. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the entire point of his post, twit.
      Think before you post about other people not thinking.

    6. Re:E-paper by AshtangiMan · · Score: 1

      The real purpose of this is an angry birds style app for launching the bombs. You can't do that with the kindle.

    7. Re:E-paper by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I found a reference that indicates the number of C-5 And C-17s that the Air Force operates to be 316 (as of 2009). It seems odd that they would consider purchasing up to 600 tablet devices per airplane for the fleet.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    8. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AF Pilot here...

      What they are not saying is that the iPad (or preferrably an Android device), is an application platform. They are erroneously saying that it will be only for static documents. In reality, maps and such require search features, the ability to show the aircraft position on the map overlaid with weather, terrain, etc... We need a tablet with a nice high res screen, long battery life, relatively open-SDK's, and interoperability with the military non-classified network.

      The Kindle, Nook, Sony reader are far, far too slow. Color is definitely needed.

    9. Re:E-paper by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you fly, but since it's Air Force then you probably already have DMIS or will be getting it in the next block cycle.

    10. Re:E-paper by grouchomarxist · · Score: 1

      Of the devices mentioned, they're all manufactured in China or Taiwan, except for the Sony Reader, for which I can't find good references as to where it is manufactured. It probably was manufactured in Japan, but I read that manufacturing was moved to China after the earthquake.

    11. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would speculate that each ipad is per pilot/navigator/aircrew, (allowing them to be used for maps AND other manuals).

    12. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He obviously meant to say that the Kindle, Nook, etc is also made in China.
      You need to take your own advice regarding thinking before posting.

    13. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In his defense, my fellow Anonymous Coward, our dear friend Reverend Dave may have misread the statement. I know I did. So, instead of jumping on someone behind an anonymous shield to degrade and belittle them, how about you take a second to understand him. Jerk. ...and I'm onux16. I ain't scurred o' no internets!

    14. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what that is.... I thought DMIS was a medical IT system.

    15. Re:E-paper by bananaquackmoo · · Score: 1

      Name one e-paper device which is at least semi-rugged. Gorilla glass and aluminum bodied. Go ahead, name one. *Dislcaimer: I am an Apple hater, but they do some things right.

    16. Re:E-paper by swonkdog · · Score: 2

      I have one of last year's versions of Sony's Reader (PRS-650), it's stamped 'Made in China'. I have no reason to doubt that the others are any different.

    17. Re:E-paper by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1

      I've never even stopped to think about what it stands for, but it looks like Digital Map Interface System. It's basically a wrapper around Falcon View that does most of the stuff mentioned in the original post. In practice, it seems to just be used to manipulate flight plans on the fly rather than load a new one if it needs to be altered mid-mission.

    18. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes and E-paper is a better replacement for textbooks as well - but they don't have the wow factor lol

    19. Re:E-paper by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Semi-rugged?

      Nothing in the "consumer tablet" space.

      Some Apple marketing buzzwords don't alter this.

      It sounds like the Pentagon needs to spec out it's own tablets.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    20. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are equipping the crews, not the aircraft

    21. Re:E-paper by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      I'm sure if the US military wanted rugged they could find a supplier for rugged.

    22. Re:E-paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The mother who named you that must be proud.

    23. Re:E-paper by FairAndHateful · · Score: 1

      I found a reference that indicates the number of C-5 And C-17s that the Air Force operates to be 316 (as of 2009). It seems odd that they would consider purchasing up to 600 tablet devices per airplane for the fleet.

      It's fair to assume that at least a few of the planes are in the hangar for maintenance at any given moment, and on a regular schedule. If you had a company with a fleet of over 300 cars, you would be constantly cycling cars through the garage for regular maintenance as well.

    24. Re:E-paper by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 1

      I love your name.
      My point was non existent, I was being facetious.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
  11. Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Since you really want to replace hard copies with something that runs on a battery, you could at least go for something that gives you at least access to, say, its file system. Or something for which you won't pay extra just for the logo.

  12. One thing iPads are rotten at.. by ackthpt · · Score: 2

    Data entry device.

    Yuck. Going back and forth between number and alpha keyboards on screen nearly caused a riot. I had to code custom on-screen touch-keypads to allow speedy, painless data entry. Nice as a readout device and OK with some interation, but be wary of using one for data capture.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      I only have an android tablet, but isn't it just long press on certain letters to get numbers? That is what my android tablet does.

    2. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you often do data entry into a fucking manual?

    3. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the idea is a good one. I would have picked something with e-ink instead though (because of glare). HOWEVER, how much data entry are you doing on your charts?

    4. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Long keypress brings up alternate letters on the iOS keyboard. Like long keypress on a gives ä and other variants.

    5. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am pretty sure they're not much worse at data entry than what they're replacing (a suitcase full of maps)

    6. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I have that too, but they are another option that appears the default option with long press is numbers. Sounds like the ipad keyboard is not very user friendly. Is it easily replaceable like the android one?

    7. Re:One thing iPads are rotten at.. by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is a good one. I would have picked something with e-ink instead though (because of glare). HOWEVER, how much data entry are you doing on your charts?

      Past practice is no indication of future practice.

      Expect some interation with these devices, even if it's as simple as scrolling to some point to initial you have followed some procedure or read some special instruction.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  13. Tablet, not iPad by clickforfreepizza · · Score: 5, Interesting

    TFA specifies once that in truth, they are looking at tablets, not just iPads. Than it's back to Apple this and iPad that. If it indeed is a forgone conclusion, they should have explained why. That's some mighty fine journalism, there. Also, they mention iOS isn't certified yet; don't know if any tablet is.

    1. Re:Tablet, not iPad by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      If they go for iPads they go for a closed source system from a single provider. I don't think that sort of thing should be legal for a publicly funded organization when a multi-supplier, open source alternative exists.

    2. Re:Tablet, not iPad by clickforfreepizza · · Score: 1

      Well, I hope that they would insist on looking very closely at the source code before they sign anything (and that the hardening would be a joint effort by vendor and customer).

    3. Re:Tablet, not iPad by Push+Latency · · Score: 1

      The fbo synopsis states,
      "This is a synopsis of proposed contract action FA4452-12-R-0013... The Government plans to issue a Request for Proposal (RFP) for a minimum of 63 and a maximum of 18,000, iPad 2, Brand Name or Equal devices. This equipment will be utilized as Electronic Flight Bags (EFB) for flightcrew members and trainers..." at the fbo.gov solicitation page, for what it's worth.

    4. Re:Tablet, not iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPad combined with the Jeppesen software has already undergone rigorous testing and has been TSO approved for IFR operations. Nothing even close to its price range has accomplished that. All it takes is another company to make an Android device that can pass muster, and it can get certified too.

      Until the Android manufacturers can produce a quality tablet with accompanying software and get it TSO'd, pilots cannot and should not be allowed to use them for navigation.

  14. 18000 iPad 1.2 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And no, the cost wont add up over the years. Maintenance and replacement cost is greater than 1.2 million per years. Granted 4 years device lifecycle with lifetime warranty, the real cost is 12 million per generation, so 1.8 million per years more than paper.

    However, there is improved flexibility and efficiency. But saying it will save cost is plain wrong.

  15. You can always wait... by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

    You can always wait for the next version, but at some point you have to actually make a purchase.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  16. Serious cash. by pclminion · · Score: 1

    I guess $1.2 million could be considered serious cash. I mean, if you multiply that by a factor of about five thousand, you're up to 1% of the US military budget.

  17. NOT a iPad , a tablet by bongey · · Score: 5, Informative
    iPad != tablet

    Lt. Col. Glen Roberts, clarified the report, stating the commend "is looking for a tablet device, not necessarily an iPad"

    Seeing that there is custom DoD Android edition and clearances, where iOS has not . http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/28/pentagon-approves-android-device-for-department-of-defense-apple-still-awaits-clearance/ . There is even a DoD SDK.

    But one thing about the Air Force there are different commands and they all make different decisions . ASFOC will make one decision, AMC another and the ANG another, and they never cooperate, costing tax payers millions.

    1. Re:NOT a iPad , a tablet by idontgno · · Score: 1

      ASFOC will make one decision, AMC another and the ANG another, and they never cooperate, costing tax payers millions.

      In theory (i.e., the Federal Acquisition Regulations), they're supposed to. But the links in the story do make it look like a direct acquisition through the operational command, and not through an Air Force Materiel Command acquisition agency. I guess the cost of even thousands of overpriced iPads isn't enough money to warrant that.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:NOT a iPad , a tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, if Android is being considered then I take back all of my comments above about how replacing paper with a tablet is a bad idea.

  18. I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 2

    sure, the ipad is a great way to replace paper. but clearly someone's forgotten what the flight bags are for. there are a few beautiful things about paper -- it's always there, it has zero dependencies, laminated it can withstand more than the human using it, and absolutely nothing can go wrong with it. it just can't break.

    so since these things are consulted when the plane breaks, two engines die, and the power is out, it's nice to have the redundancy be a completely different technology.

    so when the ipad hangs, is there tech support mid-flight? remember, paper has zero tech support requirements.

    1. Re:I think people forget what each is for by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      sure, the ipad is a great way to replace paper. but clearly someone's forgotten what the flight bags are for. there are a few beautiful things about paper -- it's always there, it has zero dependencies, laminated it can withstand more than the human using it, and absolutely nothing can go wrong with it. it just can't break.

      You honestly think paper has no dependencies and nothing can go wrong? I've actually used these types of manual in emergency situations (though on a submarine rather than an airplane), and nothing could be further from the truth.
       
      You need light to read. You need the binder to be intact (I.E. pages to be in place and in order). You need the changes to have been entered and entered correctly. (A very tedious task indeed, and it eats a lot of man hours to do it right.) Etc... etc... I've been in situations where I've encountered one or more of these failures.
       

      so since these things are consulted when the plane breaks, two engines die, and the power is out, it's nice to have the redundancy be a completely different technology.

      A completely different technology than... what exactly? I mean, that's a nice buzzword phrase but it doesn't mean anything. There's no difference, really, in the situation described between paper and an electronic tablet. Who cares if the power is out? You unplug the tablet and it runs on batteries. If you really need the tablet and the batteries are dying - you plug it into an outlet that's powered by the same source powering your instruments. (If you're power is so effed for so long that you don't have battery or generator power *somewhere* on the aircraft, you're in very deep shit indeed. I.E. dead.)

    2. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      paper has no dependencies that the ipad doesn't also have.

      there, now start your reply again.

    3. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Shifty0x88 · · Score: 1

      what happens when the program crashes while searching??

      Pilot: "How do I restart engine 3?"
      Co-Pilot: "I don't know!!!"
      Pilot: "What do you mean you don't know!?!?!?!?!?!!"
      Co-Pilot: "Oh the app crashed so it's rebooting, oh and it got updates that it has to download"
      Pilot: "'Oh we ar......"

      Paper is good!! Stop being cheap, reprint the whole binder for updates and you are good to go if you can't figure out page 2 goes after page 1. At least keep a generic reference one there. But no.... it's all about the benjamins huh?

    4. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Deorus · · Score: 1

      Light sources, I think the previous poster mentioned them, and you can't argue yourself out of this.

    5. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      sure I can. light sources are required for all human activity. and we have emergency light sources everywhere: flares, electric, and glow sticks. that's a problem that's been solved long ago.

    6. Re:I think people forget what each is for by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      what happens when the program crashes while searching??

      What happens if you drop the binder/reference card and it slides behind/under something? Yes, I've seen this happen. And I've seen the binder explode when it happens too.
       
      And no, the pilot doesn't ask for restart procedures in the middle of an emergency - that's why he's been trained and trained and trained some more. To drive those procedures so deep in his memory and reflexes that decades later, sitting in the sun in a retirement home, he'll *still* remember them. The binders or tablets are there to supplement this memory and for use when things slow down, not for use in the middle of a crisis when you have to react in less than a handful of seconds.

    7. Re:I think people forget what each is for by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Your original claim was that paper had no dependencies - your admission that this claim is incorrect requires no further reply. My work here is done.

    8. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      no further dependencies. everything has dependencies, like a human neesd to read it. no further dependencies to consider beyond the STP, SOP, standard operating environment.

      it also depends on no raging fires.

      quite arguing syntax. you can win any argument on syntax, and it's easy to do so, but it's meaningless, and showcases that you haven't any idea about that which is being discussed.

    9. Re:I think people forget what each is for by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      quite arguing syntax. you can win any argument on syntax, and it's easy to do so, but it's meaningless, and showcases that you haven't any idea about that which is being discussed.

      I'm not arguing on syntax - I'm addressing the claims you made. Claims that, now having been shown to be false and that you've admitted to be false, you're now trying to pretend you never said or never meant. (Accompanied by moving the goalposts and a little mudslinging and ad hominem since you have nothing else.)
       
      And yes, I have experience with what is being discussed. I've used those types of procedures and binders in simulations, in trainers, and in actual real world life-and-death emergencies.

    10. Re:I think people forget what each is for by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      You did not address his challenge. Paper requires an external light source, an ipad doesn't. The challenge is not that the problem can't be solved, the challenge is that paper has a dependency that the ipad doesn't.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    11. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      and did you ever call for IT assistance? did it ever require another person to help you operate the binder? there are also plenty of slightly different methods than a binder, and in general, if they'd stop printing those things as general documents for a thousand aircraft models, and actually gave you only what you need for yours, you'd reduce much of the frustration.

      and no, your misunderstanding my perspective is not me changing anything. I was always speaking in relative terms between the two devices. more specifically, between the two classes of devices.

    12. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      the external light source is not required by the paper. because it's already there and required by the human. you don't need a new light source, you already have whatever existing emergency light source is already present.

      that means no further dependency beyond the existing situation.

      the ipad has a huge defect rate, it support, can crash, can break, and is dependent on an internal light source that can break.

      the lightsources in the [cabin] can't break. they are redundant for so many other reasons. your paper doesn't need a lightsource. you do. and you already have it.

    13. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      It does actually - what happens when you suddenly lose cabin pressure because, say, a cockpit window blows out at 15,000ft?

      Your paper manuals will be all over the place, while the iPad will still be usable.

      And before you dispute it, it's happened - British Airways Flight 5390 had the pilots front window (the main windscreen) blow out due to faulty bolts used to secure it, the pilot was sucked out and the crew flight manuals spread themselves all over south England. The co-pilot had to land at an unfamiliar airfield with no orientation maps.

    14. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya paper is pretty much indestructible....

    15. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      laminate the paper, and that's no longer sarcasm.

    16. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      oh, and you'll find that museums have paper from centuries ago, and my basement has paper from decades ago, and libraries have paper from centuries ago, lets of it. how many consumer electronic devices do you see from decades ago? remember that libraries hand out free books to the public and hope to get them back. that's a lot of usage. no consumer electronic device would withstand that.

    17. Re:I think people forget what each is for by shilly · · Score: 1

      That is a truly extraordinary story. Thanks for telling us about it

      Here's a link for others who are interested in a really amazing piece of heroism

      http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A20460782

    18. Re:I think people forget what each is for by shilly · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Auto gawande, in "the checklist" tells this the exact opposite way: that aircrew rely on manuals and not memory precisely when there are emergencies, because it reduces harm

    19. Re:I think people forget what each is for by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Try reading actually reading my message - I did not say they didn't use the manuals, nor did I say they relied entirely on memory. Each has it's place it and time.

    20. Re:I think people forget what each is for by shilly · · Score: 1

      I did read your message. You talked about the pilot using memory in emergency. If that's not what you intended, you're not very good at writing.

    21. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Shifty0x88 · · Score: 1
      Sorry to beat a dead horse:

      ...The binders or tablets are there to supplement this memory and for use when things slow down, not for use in the middle of a crisis when you have to react in less than a handful of seconds...

      So you are saying they have time to re-organize their binders?

      I know I am a d**k...... deal with it, this is /.

    22. Re:I think people forget what each is for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about that time I spent months flying around Iraq and suddenly I wasn't needed and told to take my airplane home? The air force chart procurement system was setup to give me Iraq charts but to get Europe Canada and us required an emergency order from Germany that nearly didn't get in before we left. It would have been wonderful clicking a button to access everything rather than spending Weeks getting a bunch of paper to an austere location

    23. Re:I think people forget what each is for by holophrastic · · Score: 1

      "it would have been woulderful..." and "...clicking a button to" have about 10'000 man-hours between them. it's nice to put a man on the moon, and only costs 110 billion dollars.

      I'll bet it would have been even more wonderful to just teleport home.

  19. Not books by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 4, Informative

    These are more for diagrams and maps. e-paper is best for text only.

    1. Re:Not books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are more for diagrams and maps. e-paper is best for text only.

      I hear the latest planes can generate enough electricity to power iPads.

    2. Re:Not books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These are more for diagrams and maps. e-paper is best for text only.

      I have no idea why you say that. The current batch of e-paper devices aren't very good for photographs, but they do line art just fine.

    3. Re:Not books by Beatlebum · · Score: 1

      I think you meant charts, not maps. There's a difference.

    4. Re:Not books by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Evidently you don't use e-paper. E-paper is best for anything black and white which has finite set of tones and doesn't require the display to be refreshed quickly. The display on e-paper uses pixels just like any other display. If you can display a character you can display anything. Go to your local store and have a go at browsing the internet on a kindle.

      Diagrams and maps? I couldn't think of a more perfect application for e-paper.

    5. Re:Not books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are more for diagrams and maps. e-paper is best for text only.

      "Text" is a series of small diagrams. A "map" is another name for a diagram. If you haven't figured it out yet, they are functionally identical in this application.

    6. Re:Not books by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      I have a first generation nook. It doesn't display maps or photos very well. The display is too slow. Zooming in and out is slow. Panning from one section to another is slow. Color is a must for charts as well.

    7. Re:Not books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And neither you can watch pr0n.

  20. That's...strange by TennCasey · · Score: 1

    The military decided on Android for phones but iOS on tablets? They should try being more consistent...

  21. Re:18000 iPad 1.2 million by crashumbc · · Score: 1

    that is ONLY the fuel costs... it doesn't include printing and distribution savings...

  22. Re:18000 iPad 1.2 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Granted 8 years device lifecycle, the cost is half that. Granted 2 years, it's twice. This is either brilliant or stupid. I hope someone is promoted or fired for this.

  23. iPad can charge off of USB ... by perpenso · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Well, I'm not an aircraft engineer (either ground or flight), but I really don't remember 120v 60hz AC service routinely available on most military aircraft I've flown in. The stuff I've seen is 120 Vac at 400hz or 28 Vdc. I suppose a multi-billion dollar program to retrofit all these AMC aircraft to include US household current on the flight decks of the current transport aircraft inventory wouldn't be all bad...

    Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

    1. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by idontgno · · Score: 0, Troll

      So, go ahead and find me a USB port on the flight deck of a C-17. I'll wait.

      <crickets>

      I thought so. Whatever they're doing to keep their pads charged beyond normal battery endurance, it'll be a workaround hack (issuing external USB-connected battery packs along with the pad) or some significant auxiliary systems re-engineering of in-service military transport aircraft.

      Too bad Boeing and Lockheed-Martin didn't have you working for them back when they designed those aircraft. And also, that USB hadn't been invented back when they designed those aircraft.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by yakatz · · Score: 2

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Actually, the iPad can not be charged off a standard USB port while it is powered on. It draws 1.5 amps (more than the .5 amps of USB 2.0).
      There are USB ports that will charge the iPad (if they support the Battery Charging v1.1 spec), but having those on a device is rare.

      The iPad can charge slowly when it is asleep from a standard USB 2.0 port if there is nothing else drawing power.

    3. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by bennomatic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the point is that if there are any power ports available--and I don't know if there are, but if they are--it shouldn't be difficult to make an adaptor that can peel off 5V DC and spit it out of a USB-shaped plug.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    4. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1
      The adapter wouldn't even need to be specially made. I've got two different HTC phones here that did not come with a conventional AC adapter. It's a standard 110V plug on one side that you plug a USB cable into.

      It'll charge the battery from almost dead to full in about an hour or so, so it's not one of those slow trickle charges that are basically useless if the device is on.

    5. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Informative

      So, go ahead and find me a USB port on the flight deck of a C-17. I'll wait <crickets> I thought so. ...

      Did you forget that *you* wrote that 28 Vdc was available.

      ... Whatever they're doing to keep their pads charged beyond normal battery endurance, it'll be a workaround hack (issuing external USB-connected battery packs along with the pad) or some significant auxiliary systems re-engineering of in-service military transport aircraft.

      Or it will be a simple DC/DC converter, simpler than the AC/DC converter that every iPad already ships with.

    6. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Actually, the iPad can not be charged off a standard USB port while it is powered on. It draws 1.5 amps (more than the .5 amps of USB 2.0). There are USB ports that will charge the iPad (if they support the Battery Charging v1.1 spec), but having those on a device is rare. The iPad can charge slowly when it is asleep from a standard USB 2.0 port if there is nothing else drawing power.

      There seems to be existing aviation oriented adapters that can deliver 2 amps. http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Power-Adapter-USB-Socket.html

    7. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by exomondo · · Score: 0

      The adapter wouldn't even need to be specially made. I've got two different HTC phones here that did not come with a conventional AC adapter. It's a standard 110V plug on one side that you plug a USB cable into.

      It'll charge the battery from almost dead to full in about an hour or so, so it's not one of those slow trickle charges that are basically useless if the device is on.

      And now if you'll circle back to the start of the discussion you'll see that a converter does have to be specially made because you aren't going to find a standard household powerpoint on a military aircraft.

    8. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I were to order 18k count of ANYTHING, it would be shipped with a towel, pocket fuzz and salty peanuts... and WHATEVER CHARGER I DICTATED. Since when did complete doo-doo-heads troll /.? Please, 'tards, go back to reddit.

    9. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah right, because in all these utility aircraft we operate every day, over thousands of flights, it has never occurred to anyone that someone might need DC power for something. Besides which, these things are largely for flight charts, rest calculators, etc. It's not like they're moving all their avionics to an ipad.

      But it's good thing we've got the slashdot crowd around to point out these devastating flaws.

    10. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      sorry, but since when is a dc/dc converter ever simpler than an ac/dc converter?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    11. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by WCLPeter · · Score: 1

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Actually the iPad can't be charged off a USB port, it doesn't have the 10W of power required. Still, the Air Force could replace one of the overhead 50W cabin lights (note, I have no idea how much wattage the cabin lights take but any decent light coming off an old style incandescent is going to be at least 50W) with a 20W CFL, or other low power use light, and run a cable off the socket for charging the iPads. Hell, build a nice docking station right into the instrument panel so the pilot has access to the charts while its charging.

    12. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      sorry, but since when is a dc/dc converter ever simpler than an ac/dc converter?

      AC/DC are pretty simple; at least a lot of people who like them are!

      But to answer your real question - an AC/DC switchmode supply first needs to rectify the supply to DC.. there's an extra set of diodes and probably a few caps. A DC/DC converter can dispense with the extra set of diodes. But hey... what do I know? I'm only an electrical engineer!

    13. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Always. In it's most simple case the AC needs to be converted to DC before being converted again to DC.
      In the most common case the DC is smoothed by capacitors that need to withstand 400V and a high ripple.
      In the most ideal case (anything larger than that cheap $5 chinese crap you normally get with a phone) you need to isolate the output from the input via a small transformer, and often feedback through optical isolation.

      In every case DC-DC converters are simpler than AC-DC converters.

    14. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Actually, the iPad can not be charged off a standard USB port while it is powered on. It draws 1.5 amps (more than the .5 amps of USB 2.0).

      There are USB ports that will charge the iPad (if they support the Battery Charging v1.1 spec), but having those on a device is rare.

      The iPad can charge slowly when it is asleep from a standard USB 2.0 port if there is nothing else drawing power.

      My iPad 1 has been charging from the USB port on my Chumby since it was new - hasn't run down yet.

    15. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Deorus · · Score: 1

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Actually the iPad can't be charged off a USB port, it doesn't have the 10W of power required. Still, the Air Force could replace one of the overhead 50W cabin lights (note, I have no idea how much wattage the cabin lights take but any decent light coming off an old style incandescent is going to be at least 50W) with a 20W CFL, or other low power use light, and run a cable off the socket for charging the iPads. Hell, build a nice docking station right into the instrument panel so the pilot has access to the charts while its charging.

      My iPad 2 is currently charging off a USB port as I type this, and that's been the case for almost a year now, because I never use its power adapter. If what you said was true, I suspect that by now it would have run out of juice already.

    16. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by abshnasko · · Score: 1

      What the hell is a flight bag?

    17. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

      What is needed here is a simple voltage regulator to knock 28VDC down to 5VDC. An old-school 7805 3 terminal regulator should be able to take care of things.

      The term "DC-DC Converter" implies an intermediate DC to AC conversion, then rectifying the AC back to DC at a different voltage level.

      --
      Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    18. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Crickets? Seriously? How many USB ports does the average laptop have? Let's be conservative and say two. In that case, I can find probably 10 USB ports on every C-17 flight (one laptop per officer on board, probably more with the enlisted flight crew).

    19. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Or, wait for this because it's really novel....

      You could charge your iPad before you get on board since C-17s don't fly longer than a full iPad battery charge lasts.

    20. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by stewbacca · · Score: 3, Informative

      And now if you'll circle back to the start of the discussion you'll see that a converter does have to be specially made because you aren't going to find a standard household powerpoint on a military aircraft.

      And you'd be wrong. The C-17 has several "standard household powerpoints" conveniently located at the feet of the passengers seated in the "jump-seats". I'm sure there are even more on the flight deck.

    21. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Actually the iPad can't be charged off a USB port, it doesn't have the 10W of power required.

      Um yeah. I keep seeing this but that doesn't mean it's true. I haven't plugged my iPad into anything OTHER than my Macbook's USB port for a year now. If it's not charging, then that's one helluva battery.

    22. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by b0bby · · Score: 1

      I have an iPad 2 - despite the fact that it displays "Not Charging" when you plug it in, it will in fact charge from a .5 amp source. It's slow, but if you leave it overnight it'll be ~10% higher than when you plugged it in. For many people this might well be enough; I know I often don't use more than 10% in the course of a day.
      And yes, I realize that this is what you were saying at the end of your comment...

    23. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's with people here. You were wrong. Totally and dead wrong, but instead of admitting it and moving, on you start nitpicking replays and are a total ass about it. I've ridden on C-17s and ran my laptop off the power, but still it took me a whole fucking 5 seconds to find this. Are you too stupid to use Google? Or just like being an asshole?

    24. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      In every case DC-DC converters are simpler than AC-DC converters

      Not true. A DC-DC upconverter (output voltage higher than input voltage) is always more complicated than an equivalent AC-DC converter. Except for the weird case of DC-DC by optoisolation, DC-DC upconversion is actually DC-AC-DC, and the DC-AC stage is added complexity.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    25. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      What is needed here is a simple voltage regulator to knock 28VDC down to 5VDC. An old-school 7805 3 terminal regulator should be able to take care of things.

      You'd need a fairly large heatsink to dissipate the 23W wasted by that 7805. Fortunately, there are better options.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    26. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      What was implied in the discussion, and what i should have said is in the cockpit of a military aircraft, since that's where these are going to be needed. Pretty sure there aren't any there so it would require a retrofit of some kind.

    27. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In every case DC-DC converters are simpler than AC-DC converters.

      how is that informative! since when DC to DC converter are simple. Google that and look at the price.

    28. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      I don't know, man, if they're recording and editing multi-track audio in Garage Band or doing video editing in iMovie or Avid's new deal, I'll bet they could kill the battery during a pretty short hop.

      Joking aside, there are other solutions too, such as pre-charging some of those third party external battery packs and keeping them on hand.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    29. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Erm. To up-convert all you do is rotate three components in the most common layout schematic counter-clockwise. Rather than having the switch on the input, the diode shunting to ground, and the inductor on the output, you place the inductor on the input, the switch shunting to ground, and the diode on the output.

      It's just re-arranging components and picking different values.

    30. Re:iPad can charge off of USB ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Like most other gadgets, the iPad can charge off of a USB port. That would be 5 Vdc.

      Not while you're using it.

      You can charge an iPad off 5V USB, but only while it's off. The charger that comes with an iPad is 10V USB ... with that you can use it and charge it at the same time. If it's on while connected to 5V USB, it's not charging.

      But, having said that, I should think the military would be capable of figuring out their power requirements and making sure they could cover their bases. Surely they've had other requirements for something like this.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  24. Chinese military hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Send Foxconn deactivation code in 5, 4, 3, 2... Wonderful. What next? iMissile from China? What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Re:Chinese military hardware by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      exactly. The west is destroying itself by trusting goods coming from China. Instead, the west's military should require that all electronic be secured by west manufacturing.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:Chinese military hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPads are now made in Brazil also. The threat of backdoored chips is a real and present one, but there is no reason apple couldn't run a seperate trusted source chain for the military devices.

  25. 5 4 3 2 1 EMP!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does Apple actually make a MILSPEC iPad? If not, what are their plans for what to do if the "big one" finally happens and all consumer electronics are fried?

    1. Re:5 4 3 2 1 EMP!! by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      Does Apple actually make a MILSPEC iPad? If not, what are their plans for what to do if the "big one" finally happens and all consumer electronics are fried?
      Interesting that you should mention that. I happened to be reading more about this issue and found that the approval process is actually quite involved. Since the FAA does not control the building of ipads and the source of components is not controlled, each individual serial number to be used in that environment must be certified independently. Not all of them pass, either. I would have to guess that the cost of the testing of each one is probably higher than the cost of the actual unit.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    2. Re:5 4 3 2 1 EMP!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't need to be MILSPEC - it just has to go through DO-160 testing, which includes rapid decompression and EMI testing. After that, only approval of operational procedures is necessary. If you want to install a mount on the sidewall an STC is required and the process takes 10x longer.

    3. Re:5 4 3 2 1 EMP!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think if the "big one" occurred, we're all toast anyways because of nuclear winter.

  26. require that these be secured by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In particular, any computer needs to be built in the west, with chips from the west, to be trusted.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:require that these be secured by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1
    2. Re:require that these be secured by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Sure, but where are the other chips from? And where does construction take place?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:require that these be secured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think that the Chinese government isn't getting H1-B visas then?

  27. I hope they go with something else by limaxray · · Score: 2

    I work in the corporate aviation side and deal with EFBs on a regular basis, including iPads. EFBs are nothing new, and the iPad certainly isn't the first such device on the market - in the past they have been mostly Windows tablets. The main benefit of iPads is the ease of use and support. Windows based EFBs are a support nightmare just like any other Windows machine (user malfunctions mostly), and the iPads make this much easier as they are fairly idiot-proof.

    And that's where the benefits end. They simply are not designed for the rugged environment of a cockpit and flight crews tend to be about as dainty as gorilla. My biggest complain is the proprietary connector - it's weak, flimsy and breaks easily, and then is a challenge to replace as it is not a standard connector. The screens are decent for 'consumer grade' devices, but sunlight readablitly is not as good as some of dedicated EFB products out there. I'm also not aware of any 'Made for iPad' devices that allow interfacing with a ship's avionics to acquire weather, flight plan and position data as we do with Windows tablets.

    Now I hate Windows EFBs with a burning passion, but I just don't think iPads are appropriate for professional aviators. We've been supporting them in the field for less than a year and they are simply not holding up. IMO a rugged Android tablet with appropriate Android Open Accessory avionics interfacing would be a much better solution, but I don't know what is out there to this end. Everyone wants their iPads and doesn't care to hear about anything else...

    1. Re:I hope they go with something else by jbwolfe · · Score: 1

      Yes crews aren't dainty, but I've been carrying mine for over a year with no problems.

      As for dainty connectors, lots of things in the cockpit are dainty- if a problem arises, it will be addressed for longevity.

      Readability in bright light is a concern, but mostly for CRTs.

      As for "Made for iPad", most aviation planning products are simple browser based apps and internet is planned for almost all legacy carriers.

      Cannot attest for the durability, but our current testing reveals no long term issues (at least a year in testing)...

      --
      Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
  28. Still haven't received mine... by jbwolfe · · Score: 2

    In keeping with established tradition, my company has still not provided the promised EFB (electronic flight bag). we have been told literally "any day now" since 2004. Many studies, prototypes and vendors have been examined, but finally, as of October 2011, a commitment was made to procure the iPad. The new promise was November, then mid-December. And still... no device. Current issue is regulatory and infrastructural. At any rate, the advantage is mostly one of convenience. For someone with near vision issues, it will be very helpful. But the real gain will be that the paper won't have any more coffee stains on them. What it will not provide is depiction of aircraft position, but that may actually be good as you'd want one source for that- on-board navigation. Some of the relevant issues: *Who's responsible for equipment (if stolen, broken, not charged, etc.) *Can we use it below 10000' (not trivial to FAA) *How will data be updated (do I provide access to server or company) *can the device be incorporated as "aircraft permanent equipment" *can I watch porn on it or jailbreak/root it (of course not) *can they monitor what they do with it (not unless required by law, but they certainly will...)

    --
    Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
  29. iPads to replace flight bags? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't get it... how does one vomit into an iPad?

  30. Great way to take out US airlift capability. by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

    So what does this tell the enemies of the US airforce? That they can ground cargo operation with directed EMP. The ipad isn't EMP hardened, so a single EMP burst will deprive the pilots of all charting and mission planning. What a great way to shut down US airlift capability! No body would have bothered in the past because US military planes are EMP hardened so you couldn't kill the plane. But now with the advent a consumer electronic device for charts and mission plans you have the ability to shut down all mission information.

    1. Re:Great way to take out US airlift capability. by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1

      Charting and mission planning are done way before the plane is in the air. It's typically loaded via a 3.5" floppy or PCMCIA card and can be manipulated through the VDTs if any sort of changes are necessary. If an EMP or similar managed to take out the mission computers (which shouldn't happen, since they are hardened), no way would they still attempt to complete the mission.

    2. Re:Great way to take out US airlift capability. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An EMP that would destroy the iPad would take out the million-dollar navigation computer as well.

      Of course they could just go back to the E6-B (or E-6B) analog (chunk o' metal) navigation computer.

  31. The cash by onthree_one_two · · Score: 1

    Even if the USAF get a good deal on the iPads at say 500 bucks a pop, 18,000 are going to set them back $9 million dollars. By the time they make up the costs with the $1.2 million in fuel per year, everyone is already on iPad 4.

  32. not necessarily an iPad by newtbrick · · Score: 2

    "Lt. Col. Glen Roberts, clarified the report, stating the commend "is looking for a tablet device, not necessarily an iPad."

  33. blah blah blah blah iPad blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WOW! That sounds like a great new slashdot story!

  34. Aircraft 28V dc / USB adapters already exist by perpenso · · Score: 5, Informative

    Adapters for 28V dc aircraft environments already exist: http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Power-Adapter-USB-Socket.html

    1. Re:Aircraft 28V dc / USB adapters already exist by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Adapters for 28V dc aircraft environments already exist: http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Power-Adapter-USB-Socket.html

      That's a good thing, because if the military developed and built one for themselves, it would cost more than the iPad itself.

  35. Safe Inside? by andersh · · Score: 1

    I don't pretend to know much about EMP hardening, I assume the built-in electronics are built to withstand the effects, but I also assume that the whole outer skin of the plane is shielded?

    If that is the case, which I am only suggesting, is it not likely that the tablet inside the cockpit would also be shielded by the fuselage?

  36. Two words by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

    Missed Opportunity.

    For both BlackBerry and their "professional grade" but too-small PlayBook tablet, and for E-Ink and their lack of color devices on the market. To be fair, there is the jetBook Color which is targeted at the educational market... but it's the only one and I doubt anyone has made any additional aviation apps for it. Too bad they couldn't have leveraged their branding for the aviation market.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  37. Really? by MikeMo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really? Slashdot is going to argue over whether the military can figure out how to charge an iPad on a C-17? Really?

    1. Re:Really? by bongey · · Score: 3, Informative

      The C-17 already has AC power adapters. Had many times been deployed and plugged a laptop right in. The C-17 also already has a computer on board toughbook I think.

    2. Re:Really? by Loadmaster · · Score: 1

      It wasn't a Toughbook. It was some super expensive one-of-a-kind piece-of-shit whiz bang crappy touch screen. It only had one job, fill in Form F, and was super slow and annoying. Almost as annoying as the thermal printer. Hopefully this iPad stuff works out and they replace that monster with an iPad for the load station.

    3. Re:Really? by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 1

      Really? Slashdot is going to argue over whether the military can figure out how to charge an iPad on a C-17? Really?

      Yes, really. This is Slashdot, after all, and that's exactly the kind of pointless thing us nerds argue about when there isn't a running series of Star Trek. You want cool people arguing, head to US Magazine and argue about who is the father of the ugliest Kardashian (I hear it's the mom's hairdresser).

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    4. Re:Really? by FairAndHateful · · Score: 1

      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.

      Nice sig! She should get in business with my sister in Hawaii who works at a Batteries Plus.

    5. Re:Really? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Really? Slashdot is going to argue over whether the military can figure out how to charge an iPad on a C-17? Really?

      Slow morning... the infiltration by the Chinese thread was boring.

    6. Re:Really? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      First, stop making sense. I too flew on the C-17 many times and plugged my laptop right into the outlets, but don't let our anecdotes get in the way of a good nerd fight. Secondly, haven't your read in this thread already that you can't charge an iPad off a USB port alone...duh!

    7. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the more important question is the total lifetime of the battery. Are Ipad batteries replaceable? If laptops and cell phones have taught me anything it's that, your 10 hour battery after two years will be a 5 hour batter. After 5 years it holds less charge than a brick.

    8. Re:Really? by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

      Even us lowly guys flying in C-130 variants could plug in Toughbooks and charge them. Hilarious that people don't think the military would give a thought about charging and electronic device in flight...

  38. 18,000 iPads save $1.2M in fuel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but 18k iPads cost at least $9M. Who expects an iPad to last eight years in an environment as harsh as cargo planes?!

  39. Flight Gloves by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

    So will flight gloves work on the iPad screen, or are the operators going to be pulling their gloves off and putting them back on every time they want to see or look up something?

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    1. Re:Flight Gloves by Loadmaster · · Score: 1

      Why would the pilots be wearing flight gloves all the time? I don't remember seeing any of them wear their gloves much at all. The buttons and dials are so small a glove wouldn't be wise to use. I know I took mine off when I did the flight deck pre-flight.

    2. Re:Flight Gloves by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Sporty's Pilot Shop has flight gloves with wire mesh in the index finger tip and thumb tip for just this purpose.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  40. Fuel savings... myth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ask this respectfully towards the aviation buffs and the actual service members, but in reality, is that fuel savings estimate reasonable?
    I've talked to a couple of Navy vets who will quietly admit to having to dump many many loads of fuel at the end of the quarter so they can have empty tanks when it's budget-time again. So assuming the Air Force does this too, can the fuel really be accounted for in such a way?

  41. Military Intelligence by Everything+Else+Was · · Score: 1

    A bit of turbulence and they'll all be on the floor... screens smashed. Apple stuff seems so fragile. If I had a dollar for every smashed iPhone I've seen...

    I would have thought this kind of functionality would be provided through specialised mapping software on the navigator's console.

    --
    My other account has mod points!
    1. Re:Military Intelligence by Deorus · · Score: 1

      I suppose you're grossly underestimating the iDevices' ruggedness. I can't count how many times my iPhone 4S has literally been projected out of my pockets due to me accidentally pulling the headset cable, suffering minimum to no damage to the rubber frame, and no scratches to the either of the glass faces. My iPad hasn't been as thoroughly tested, though, but it doesn't seem weak to me at all, with its back being entirely made of alluminium (except for a little bit at the top, which is plastic because I have the 3G model), and the glass on the other side seeming pretty strong.

    2. Re:Military Intelligence by Everything+Else+Was · · Score: 1

      That doesn't really match my experience. I've seen dozens of smashed iPhones, looking just like in the video below, but rarely see *any* other phone smashed like that.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw

      --
      My other account has mod points!
  42. uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $1.2 million saved on fuel? I wonder how much those iPads cost. Assuming retail 16GB Wifi only iPad 2's, that's $499 x 18,000 = $8,982,000.

    Yeah, a great "savings".

  43. What cost savings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If these are the 3G models, the iPads could cost well over $10million. Even at $2million savings/year, the break even point is 5 years. By that time, the iPad batteries will not hold recharge, and they'll have to be replaced.

    What about the energy cost of recharging the iPads abd the fuel cost of producing the iPad?

  44. This is one of the few amazing ideas the USAF have by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    ...with a very basic but important caveat: battery life. Or do they simply dock the thing once they get to the flight deck? As to cost; for the doubters among you, let me ask you this: how much does the USAF spend on paper to update the charts every month? Inks? Printer maintenance? If all is done electronically, and the pads have SSD or SD storage, then what's the total cost of maintaining the system? Very little: keep the cartographers on, move them to computers if they're not on them already, hence removing the requirement for intermediaries for AD conversion, ditch the printers, stop buying paper, and every pad is updated either wirelessly or with the simple insertion of a two Dollar memory stick. Flight crews are happy, the office is happy, the cartographers are happy (though the print shop might not be), the trees are happy, and Congress is happy that notwithstanding an initial outlay running upwards of 10 million bucks, long-term savings are sweet considering the USAF has never broke even on a project yet.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  45. iPads aren't spec'd for hostile environments by AdamHaun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had a hard time believing they'd go for an iPad over a more rugged device, but the article says Special Operations Command already did so. iPads are consumer hardware. From Apple's specs:

            * Operating temperature: 32 to 95 F (0 to 35 C)
            * Nonoperating temperature: -4 to 113 F (-20 to 45 C)
            * Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
            * Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)

    Even for a cargo plane, that seems pretty limited. I know they have at least some climate control in flight, but don't they park the planes in arctic and desert environments too? Don't they need the checklists before they start the plane up? Or do they keep them running all the time and only shut down at their home base?

    --
    Visit the
    1. Re:iPads aren't spec'd for hostile environments by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      What would happen with the iPad if the cabin lost pressurization during flight?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    2. Re:iPads aren't spec'd for hostile environments by Deorus · · Score: 2

      What would happen with the iPad if the cabin lost pressurization during flight?

      Its audio I/O quality would probably be degraded. I suppose it could work in space too, with no audio.

    3. Re:iPads aren't spec'd for hostile environments by squidflakes · · Score: 1

      The iPads wouldn't be left in the aircraft, they go with the pilots. Operating temps below what they suggest can be sustained, but you have to take precautions. I've got some friends at McMurdo and the South Pole station right now, and they are reporting that their iPads are working just fine, just with reduced battery life from the cold.

      If you do have an aircraft parked for any reason in the arctic or a hot desert environment, you're usually going to have a ground power cart and maybe a blower cart to help run the environmentals for a bit before you board.

      Also, pressurized aircraft don't let the cabin go much over 4000 feet, pressure-wise.

  46. Great, one EMP and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Air Force can't fly.

    1. Re:Great, one EMP and by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      Paper charts won't save you when the EMP disables everything in your airplane. It's one thing if you're flying a single engine prop that can still run without electricity.

      If you're flying a 747, the fact that the EMP kills your iPad is irrelevant in light of the fact that the rest of the airplane is also inoperable.

  47. Why Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why doesn't the military buy generic tablets with decent specs and create their own custom Android ROM. This would ensure safety, keep cost down, and avoid the gianormous closed-source monopoly known as Apple.

  48. conversations with a pilot by squidflakes · · Score: 1

    I just had a talk about this with my dad over the weekend. He's considering ditching his flight bag because he found out that Jeppesen had a charts app for the iPad.

    The pro argument is exactly what is presented in the article. Instead of having to lug around the four or five bags that it now takes to hold all the charts, you've got this nice, tight little package with access to everything. There are clip adapters to attach the iPad to just about any yoke where the charts would normally get clipped, and you avoid having to unfold, spread, smooth, refold, unfold, refold, stow, etc.

    On the con side, it is an electronic device, which means it is going to crash and the battery will run out, which is something you never have to worry about with paper. If you're on approach and you're at somewhere even mildly complex (not to mention spaghetti bowls like Midway or LAX) there is no lag getting the data off the paper chart. You don't have to touch the screen to wake it up and you can glance over at your co-pilot's chart to make sure you're both looking at the same thing. With the iPad, you could both have different views and that could cause issues. It is also possible to write directly on the paper charts, which can come in handy when there are temporary approach changes.

    Of course, like most things new, about half of the pilots you talk to hate the idea, the other half love it. The younger ones tend to be more willing, while the older ones tend to be more resistant.

  49. Flight bag?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd have thought that barfing on an iPad is much messier than barfing in a paper flight bag?

  50. 2 amp aviation oriented adapters exist by perpenso · · Score: 1

    I believe the Apple adapter that comes with the iPad is 2 amp, the normal usb port is 0.5 amp. 2 amp aviation oriented adapters exist.

    "ATTENTION iPad USERS:
    Please be sure to select the 2 Amp USB Model to ensure proper charging."
    http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Power-Adapter-USB-Socket.html