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Tesla Reveals Its Model X Gullwing SUV
thecarchik writes "The new, all-electric Tesla Model X crossover, which was introduced on stage by Tesla CEO Elon Musk (also the man behind SpaceX), isn't exactly a step toward the mass market. But it does take on premium utility vehicles with three rows of seating for up to seven, better maneuverability than a Mini Cooper, and a 0-60 mph time of just 4.4 seconds—that's faster than a Porsche 911, Musk jeered. But the real oohs and ahs of the evening came when Musk showed the Model X's much-anticipated 'falcon doors' — essentially gullwing rear doors, behind normal hinged front doors." The expected price before tax-credit shenanigans? $60,000-$90,000.
At first I read X Wing.
FFS. I suppose it gets spoken about, but a massively impractical non-solution.
I thought Tesla was going under or something. If they aren't, then why haven't they?
What is "bettb |rer maneuverability"?
It's unusual to see /. mention a company that has a lick of design sense unless it's either Apple or someone on the defending end of a patent infringement claim from Apple. So when can we expect to see a lawsuit over the rear doors having too clean of a profile?
(To the humor-impaired: the second sentence is a joke.)
...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
I can't wait for Jeremy Clarkson to review this Electric Sports Car/SUV with Gull Wing Doors. I am for sure he will have some great superlatives for how amazingly stupid this thing is. This SUV is the answer for the question no one asked.
mnewberg.com
How exactly am I going to open gullwing doors in my garage? SUVs are already taller that a regular car.
Gone!
Or is that just marketing-speak?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Whence comes your 30 mile driving range? The Model X is offered with a 60 kWh or a 85 kWh battery pack, the same as the top two options for the Model S. In the Model S, those packs give it 270 miles and 370 miles range respectively. Granted, the Model X is a larger, heavier vehicle, but a 90% drop in range? I don't think so.. probably closer to 10%. Also, the top two drive-train options have dual motors, which may offer better efficiency overall.
From the Slashdot summary.
But it does take on premium utility vehicles with three rows of seating for up to seven, bettb |rer[sic] maneuverability than a Mini Cooper, and a 0-60 mph time of just 4.4 seconds - that's faster than a Porsche 911, Musk jeered.
I know that "bettb |rer maneuverability" is just what I'm looking for in my next vehicle.
(kinda like "bettb |rer proofreading" in my next SlashDot article)
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Your made up range aside, most people drive their luxury SUV to Whole Foods and back, no more.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Elon Musk just doesn't seem to add up.
He is only in his 30s, is on his second marriage, has 5 kids is the CEO/venture capitalist for 2 companies, both doing innovating engineering.
I'm guessing it is just a matter of winning the lottery by being born rich, born intelligent, born with a innovative/push forward temperament, born to parents who will bring those gifts out ( or at least not fuck up the kid enough to shut those things down ) and lots and LOTs of caffeine.
Am I missing something?
How does any person, let alone one his 30s end up with all of those situations?
So can I jump in one of these and expect to drive at a steady 70mph for over 300 miles? If it can't, then it can't replace my diesel car.
I don't care if it can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. I *do* care if it can do 0 to 250 miles in 4.5 hours.
Really? They spend millions of dollars designing this thing and they never thought of the obvious problem that occurred to you 5 second after reading the description. Look at the pictures in the article. It's not a tall vehicle to begin with, and the wing doors are hinged so they don't actually project much above the top of the car.
With the Model S you can; depending on how you drive, the 60 kWh pack would be tight, but the 85 kWh pack should handle you no problem (going on your second 250 mile requirement). Those same numbers aren't out for the Model X, but as I said, they are the same battery packs, and the total efficiency will be in the same ballpark.
Also, note that just because one particular non-extended-range electric vehicle does not meet your particular driving requirements does not mean it is a useless endeavour, or even that it will fail in market at all. There are plenty of other people out there that don't drive 300 miles a day (I for one wouldn't want to); the base Model S would do all the driving I need fine, except when I go home for the holidays. Even then, the 85 kWh battery pack would handle that no problem. If you're going on a really long trip, say, once a year, you could always just rent.
According to: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/0210/Tesla-Model-X-Era-of-the-all-electric-SUV-is-arriving 80-100 mile range. Probably enough for about 90% of everyone's one go trips. I really don't get this crazy worry about electric: oh but I can't go for 300 miles on a charge. How often do you do 5 hrs of non-stop driving anyways? If the technology for rapid charging comes out it wouldn't matter much either since you could just stop at a restaurant for an hour break and recharge. At any rate for the very rare times you need to drive 5hrs at a go run a car. The other 340 days a year your electric will be fine.
he busted his ass getting to where he is. Instead of bemoaning a setback it probably caused him to try again, if not harder and smarter. You won't find the likes of him posting to some website bitching about how things aren't fair, how he don't get his fair share, how others should be giving he stuff, and so on and so on.
The biggest barrier to success in this country is yourself. The second biggest barrier is the government at all levels, the third is your competition. Money comes in somewhere on this list, not much further down.
You end up there by doing. This means that you put in many weeks if not years of ridiculous hours. You do it with a clear goal in mind. You compare your current position to your goal at all times and you make decisions on what to do next based on that.
See my tag, if you live comparing yourself to others you will never be happy.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I don't think the vast majority of people in the market for a car need to do 70mph for 300 miles- or 0 to 250 in 4.5 hours on anything close to a regular basis.
If you're regulary having to travel 250 miles- sorry... I'm glad my commute is only 20 miles a day.
The Teslas are expensive for what they give you- and electiric cars do have a huge curve to climb before they match diesel or petrol; however, they would fill the need for the vast majority of households (if the vast majority of households had vast quantites of cash).
If twice a year you go across a few states to see Grandma- well... can't do that in your Tesla- so either rent a car (if you're paying this much for a car- what's another $25 twice a year) or wait until they have fast-charge stations. ;)
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
If you would like to drive it further than it's engineered limit per fill up maybe you should think of a work around instead of expecting the manufacture to include it in a product not designed for you.
The answer will likely end up being a small petrol powered generator trailer hitch thingy for sale or rent. I think some government agency has said the average driver goes less than 30 miles in a day. How many times in the lifetime of a vehicle does it end up needing more than 300 miles of capacity? If the cost of adding that extra capacity was not so cheap for todays vehicles they wouldn't have it, and there's no good reason for it to be standard in the vehicles of tomorrow.
Not a car for you then. Who cares. There's 7 billion people on the planet. Not everyone has the same driving habits as you. There's a reason that GM has 57different models of cars. If they can get 100,000 people to buy a Tesla, they would probably have a pretty good start. If I had a little bit more money, I would seriously consider buying one, because they fit my driving habits perfectly. For a family with 2 cars, it wouldn't matter if one of them would only be of use to commute back and forth across the city. Anybody who goes out of town can just use the other one. On the rare occurrence that both people are going out of town at the same time, somebody could rent. The savings alone in fuel and maintenance would make up for the cost of the rental. Just because I don't have and iPod or an iPad, or a Rolex, doesn't mean they are terrible products. It just means they are aiming for a different market.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Correction: according to teslamotors.com, the range of the Model S on these batteries is actually 230 miles and 300 miles respectively.
Chotchkie's.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
You know, while the all-wheel electric drive may do nice things for the handling, I really have trouble imagining a car that can easily seat 7 having better maneuverability than a Mini Cooper (and only the less sporty versions, at that). I won't say it's impossible, but I'd definitely need to see some numbers before giving this claim any credence.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
Its ugly enough and almost big enough that the wealthy Americans might buy it.
The 80-100 mile range figure is for the electric Jeep, not the Tesla.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Putting gullwings on such an ugly vehicle is as the Amerians say "polishing a turd".
Dear Coward, you are quite wrong. You have obviously never actually been around or in a car with gull-wing doors. It's all about where the hinge line is. You would be correct if the hinge line was located where the top of a conventional door is. However, that is never the case. The hinge line is far inboard toward the center of the roof. Thus when the door is opened, the bottom of the door moves out very little. Gull-wing door are actually more practical than conventional doors for parking lot ingress and egress. The main problem is they are more costly than conventional doors.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Literally, not one story about Tesla going out of business has come true, not one story about how the Model S would cost a Billion dollars to build, not one story about the lack of sales between the end of the Roadster (no more Lotus bodies) and the beginning of the Model S eating through their cash too quickly.
Try reading the stories about their technology, how even if their car sales tanked they'd have a profitable business on the battery pack and drivetrain alone. The runaway battery pack fire risk on the Chevy Volt, can't happen with a Tesla battery pack. Tesla fixed that problem on the Roadster back when GM was still saying it couldn't be done.
Tesla does have a $450 million loan from the DoE to build the manufacturing and come out with the Model S, that's probably kept them defying gravity longer than some folks would like. That and Musk running himself ragged, living with friends and putting all his cash into the business for a while.
So can I jump in one of these and expect to drive at a steady 70mph for over 300 miles? If it can't, then it can't replace my diesel car.
I don't care if it can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. I *do* care if it can do 0 to 250 miles in 4.5 hours.
You wouldn't replace your diesel car with a gas or diesel SUV, either, would you (unless you need the space)?
This is a soccer mom vehicle. They don't drive 70mph for 300 miles. They drive 30-50 mph for lots of small trips, which is what an electric is really good for. Think of this as an electric replacement for gas-hog SUVs, and it makes more sense.
Faster that which porsche 911?
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Porsche-0-60-mph-Times.html
Faster than any Pre1990 Porsche? Yes, I guess so. That would be pretty impressive if it were 1990. Really, 4.4s is still very impressive, for any car. But...
1993 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6 0-60 mph 4.3 Quarter mile 12.5
1995 Porsche 911 Turbo 0-60 mph 3.8 Quarter mile 12.3
1997 Porsche 911 Turbo 0-60 mph 3.6 Quarter mile 12.1
1997 Porsche RUF CTR-2 0-60 mph 3.4 Quarter mile11.2
2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S 0-60 mph 2.9 Quarter Mile 10.6
There are a lot of Porsche 911 variants out there. A large fraction of the modern ones list sub 4.4s times.
(0-60 times often have largeish error bars)
-- "Oh. This guy again."
Tesla is not marketing to us yet. They're progressing down the class ladder.
The Roadster was for elites, the S & X are for upper middle class (the people driving the porsches, beemers, mercedes, escalades, etc).
And in that upper-middle class range, the Tesla S & X are in fact very well pried for the performance and luxury
They'll get to us in about 5 years.
Good chance, the estimates are around 250-300 mile range for the bigger battery pack.
And I wager improvements over the next 2-3 years (when vehicle is released to production) will likely push it over the 300 mile mark.
Do all of your cars need that type of range? Most people only need one of their family vehicles to have it.
That's one of my biggest peeves about Slashdot. "I wouldn't use this, therefore it can't possibly be of use to anyone!" Grow up already.
Check out my world simulator thingy.
Use the money you save not buying any gas and rent a car for a week. ;-)
It's about time someone created a car with plenty of room to get in and out. Now I don't need to have my mom help me tuck in my fat rolls just to fit through the tiny doors of our Hummer.
So I guess the Model X will only be marketed to people in non snow getting areas of world? Any amount of snow or ice that builds up on the car during driving or while sitting in a parking lot are going to end up INSIDE the car once I open those gull wings. My back seat passengers are going to be pissed if they have to sit in a snow drift for the drive home. Looks like a "neat" car, but for the majority of car users who experience some sort of Winter weather it is quite impractical.
Obviously, with a name with Elon Musk , they guy's destined to be a Bond villain.
Why else would he be building ICBMs ?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
That's fine... people simply need to realize these cars are about as practical as personal submarines.
Hmm, ~70% of the earth's surface is water and subs are not constrained to the surface like cars. This would make me conclude that no car is as practical as a personal submarine when considering the ability to provide personal transport. I guess I should go buy one today. :) This is slashdot where pedantic quibbling is the name of the game.
It Better-B!
No, an "SUV" is built on a truck chassis and has much higher ground clearance than a station wagon. Consequently, it typically has poor interior room compared to the weight of the vehicle, has poor handling, rolls over easily, and gets poor gas mileage.
You can still buy station wagons; Audi makes a couple, the A3 and A4. VW has one called the Jetta Sportwagen. I think even Cadillac makes one.
What's its towing capacity? It takes more than a third row of seats to make an SUV, you know.
Also, did anyone else have trouble getting through the first link? I swear, with all that unbridled fawning I half expected the 'article' to be punctuated with an image of Nelson Ireson giving Elon Musk a B.J. in the back seat.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Sure, just find the five million it will cost in your piggy bank and have a ball... tiny subs go about 15mph too... and have a range that can take them across a bay and back... maybe.
So have fun with that.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Also, note that just because one particular non-extended-range electric vehicle does not meet your particular driving requirements does not mean it is a useless endeavour, or even that it will fail in market at all.
I'll add another point: most households have more than one car, and very few ever face situation where two family members have to take *different* 300+ mile trips on the same day.
So if electric has any advantages at all in day to day driving, then one electric and one ICE car in a two-car family is for all practical purposes just as versatile as two ICE cars. Sure, once in a blue moon you'll want two ICE cars. But *more* than once in a blue moon one of those ICE cars will in the shop having it's complicated and temperamental engine, transmission or exhaust system repaired.
It's probable that most two car houses with one ICE car and one EV with at least a 200 mile range have no cause to feel range anxiety.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So how much does the electrical bill run?
Yes, they are green; they use a tiny fraction of the power that a gasoline engine consumes to move mass the same distance. Are you one of those morons who doesn't understand that giant electric power plants are far more efficient than a small gasoline engine that runs at variable speeds?
Powered by electrons made in the USA. Might not be green enough for you, but a lot better than the terrorist-mobiles that a lot of the electric car haters seem to like so much.
Not everyone has the same driving habits as you. There's a reason that GM has 57different models of cars. If they can get 100,000 people to buy a Tesla, they would probably have a pretty good start
Exactly.
Where they would really make a huge difference, is if they could make small electric vans about the same size as this SUV that *didn't suck*. Any electric commercial vehicle is a diesel one with an unholy mess of a grafting job under the bonnet.
I appreciate that it's a high-spec car purely to justify the ridiculous cost of batteries and motors, probably more than to hit that target market. If they can get that to the same sort of price point as a competing Audi then great - but rather than make a luxury SUV that sells for 30 grand how about making a more basic vehicle that sells for £15k instead? I'd buy *that*...
In fact, Tesla cars have well-to-wheel (well, mine-to-wheel) energy consumption that's 50% or less of the best gasoline-powered car in same class. In spite of electricity transmission losses, they still win in the end by a factor of 2+.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Oh my god pedantic schmucks!
How bout we just assume the original AC said "Did you just compare a Corvette to a large and tall four door family vehicle of indeterminate class?" The point still stands. The original post was a ludicrous "I'd rather have a corvette." Well sure, he may rather have a corvette, but a two door sports car is not something that shoppers will be comparing against a *seven passenger* vehicle.
+1 Disagree
How on earth is a submarine not practical? Obviously, they're not much good for getting to work in a metropolis, but compared to most boats, they have huge advantages: 1) no rocking wave motion to give you motion sickness, 2) you don't have to worry about getting killed in bad weather; if a big storm comes along (or even a hurricane), just dive; 3) piracy (the real kind) isn't so much of a problem; see a boat with a bunch of thugs with AK47s approaching you? Dive, and then launch a torpedo.
The cards you get dealt in life are always luck (i.e. money/brains/temperament/drive/health/family). Then it's what you make of your luck.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
..if they don't run out of government loans before that. which is the real point, that they're not profitable.
for performance and luxury they kind of suck when compared to practical german cars, too. for affordability they're way out of the league with friggin toyotas(price+ how much gas you can get).
the gullwings are a stupid gimmick. they don't give any structural benefit(quite the opposite) and look silly. the only good thing about them is that you could throw away the seats and build a wheelchair lifter there.
(it's topspeed isn't anywhere near practical german drivers cars either)
Even if you can "refill" your "tank" every night with zero effort?
Do you drive 300+ miles every day?
I bet a 200 mile/charge range will meet people's needs for 95% of the population
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
Understanding that you're kidding...
the personal subs are tiny... they dive and surface faster then they go forward.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
The thing has quite a lot of storage space - even with the third row up. All of the seats were designed to go flat. This has a ton of storage space.
It just looks flat compared to other SUV's, but calling it "a hatchback" seems wrong.
Now Wagon on the other hand...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sorry, I guess I was thinking of something a little bit bigger. Here's a company doing something interesting in this space. (Warning: horrifically bad web design straight out of 1995)
I am not a fan of Wing doors, but I love the dual motor AWD.
This gives you:
Total power control at both ends with no center differential issues (binding, too much slip, too slow reaction).
4 wheel regen. I read one study that showed a significant increase in regen capture moving to AWD.
These cars don't run on gas, so they don't use any power. Don't you get it? It's the free lunch everyone's been waiting for!
It's somewhat free if your employer has charging stations isn't it? Unless of course they meter them (which I suppose will probably happen) you can plug in and get the "free lunch". As mentioned though it is about getting off foreign oil, less of course that foreign oil comes from Canada and than I'm all for it, eh? Cost of pollution, cost of national defence needed to ensure that the oil gets to your country etc. Heck dealing with Isreal's douchbagery because they are better than the other douchbags in the area wouldn't be necessary if we didn't care about oil.
It does say "The Tesla Model X will have a similar range as the SUVs from AMP." in the article though.
The doors have issues such as you have to duck to get in and they are hard to close.
If you watched the video you'd know these doors have no such issues. If there is enough space for you to stand between your car and an object next to the car, you can open the doors. The doors also open high enough thanks to the folding that you can actually step into the car fully upright!
From the looks of it the Model-X won't even fit in most garages with the doors open.
If you had actually "looked" you would have seen the video where they showed the car parked in a garage with the doors up. They specifically said that if you can open an SUV hatchback in your garage the doors will fit as well. Basically, they took the incredibly simple step of saying "how high are most garages with the door open" and made it no higher.
I wonder how many of those SUV mall mommies would want s to plugin there SUV all the time just to be able to drive 100 miles.
Range is the real question to ask about...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
* My car has a bigger lifetime carbon footprint than yours!
The initial production of an electric vehicle produces more carbon, but the lifetime carbon footprint for any electric vehicle is lower than a gasoline or diesel vehicles.
A Chrysler PT Cruiser is a "truck" according to the feds. Why? Because Chrysler asserted it is so, and the rules for "truck" are loose.
Oh, and a "truck" is about $5000 less than a car for the same thing. Safety, CAFE, and other regulations punish cars, and that's what made SUVs popular. Add $5000 to every SUV price and see how popular they still are (some certainly would be, the Suburban and Jeep pre-dated the screwed up rules), but, in general, it's perceived that the SUV class would take a significant hit if they were saddled by the $5000 penalty cars suffer. But trucks are one of the last niches where the US makers dominate, so every rule that protects/encourages trucks will be left in place long after it should be abolished.
And, you are factually wrong. The Forester is considered an SUV, and is based on the Impreza. The CX-7 and CX-9 are car based. The Suburban/Tahoe are truck based. The PT Cruiser is car based (it's the Neon hearse, but inexplicably a truck/SUV, not a car). I'd hazard a guess that most SUVs are car based now, though I'm sure that those arguing that point can exclude trucks like the PT Cruiser because of their personal preferences and definitions.
Learn to love Alaska
Do. Not. Want.
There is also the Merc and BMW wagons, the exact models escape me. There is a volvo one as well and the older outbacks (I put the new outback in crossover territory).
I'd also put the A3 more in "hatchback" and less in "station wagon", but that's a fine line.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
Actually, the Volvo V50 wagon was canceled for 2012. The only "wagons" they have are really crossovers that resemble the Suburu Forester: higher ground clearance, bigger wheels, AWD I think, and shitty fuel economy. XC60 and XC90 I believe are the names.
Yes, the A3 is hard to tell whether it's a hatchback or a station wagon; it seems to straddle that line; it's like a mini station wagon.
I still don't know why nobody's talking about solving the recharge time issue by making them standardised and removable. Pull into a charge station, some guy swaps the batteries for charged ones.
Granted it might not be time yet, since there's too much battery R&D competition going on, but it's the obvious medium-term answer. Nobody ever seems to mention it, as if nobody had ever filled a petrol tank away from home.
Actually I think you are right that "Bus" is really a better term than "wagon". Like you say it's pretty tall but also very long, after watching it for a while it seems like the vehicle must be rather huge...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
just recharge time anxiety... To feel comfortable I would need it to recharge from "I pushed into the garage because it ran out of juice in the driveway" to full in 4-6 hours. Sorry I just don't always spend 8-12 at home at night.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
How much space do they use above? I'd be worried it would hit my garage door when both are open.
I wouldn't mind picking up a good used Los Angeles class boat. The USS Rickover would be especially sweet, if it is available. I once blasted Kirov all the way back to Murmansk in Red Storm Rising driving it. MK 48 torpedoes can be a real bitch if you know how to use them. The problem is, finding a parking space for one of those bad boys is even harder than for my pickup truck.
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
> Probably enough for about 90% of everyone's one go trips
Some seems to think even better than that, 95% of all trips can be made under EV.
google 95% trips ev
Gullwing doors are just bad. Scissor doors can be good but usually aren't. The best are sliding doors, and I wish someone would give us four of THOSE on sedans, SUVs, et cetera.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I live in the Canadian prairies. The nearest city with over half a million people is 435mi away. Electric isn't going to cut it for that with current tech. My Matrix will do it without refueling if there is no headwind.
The sliding doors on my vans that I've had in the past have been a major PITA. They are efficient and necessary in some cases, but when they break down they break down horribly. I'm not suggesting that the gull-wing doors on the Model X would be any better, but the KISS principle applies especially to doors: Keep them as simple as possible.
The sliding doors on my vans that I've had in the past have been a major PITA. They are efficient and necessary in some cases, but when they break down they break down horribly.
How is this different from a hinged door? Either way you get lots of warning. A sliding door offers something a gullwing doesn't, the door actually gets out of your way. With a gullwing it's still there overhead lurking.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Keep in mind that when electric vehicles like the Roadster start to lose their charge, they merely slow down. Instead of driving on the freeway, you need to take the surface streets to get home. Not quite "pushing it into the garage", but it can take longer.
The time it takes to recharge the vehicle is mainly dependent upon the charger station you are using. Most home units have a 220 volt main power tap, but the 110 volt charger (easier to find and install) takes longer because it has lower amperage as well. If you want something to recharge faster, all you "need" to do is find some way to get that energy into the battery faster. I suppose you could hook a direct high voltage power line into your battery charger from a 1 MW power plant and recharge your battery in under an hour. Do you want to be doing that power source connection your self or hiring a minimum-wage convenience store attendant to perform that task for you?
It isn't that the issue isn't raised, the problem is that the size of the battery pack is so huge that you need some kind of pallet truck to move the thing around and a specialized storage location to be able to recharge these battery packs.
From what I understand about the Model S, the idea that eventually such a service might show up was considered, where battery packs could be removed with just a few bolts being taken off and a single connector cable with a "plug" that could easily be disconnected and reconnected. I don't know if the process has been seriously explored in terms of somebody coming up with a business plan and actually setting up shop to perform this task, noting that at the moment each battery pack that is being produced can only be used for a single automobile manufacturer. If these battery packs could become somewhat standardized, perhaps this idea might get a little more merit.
This certainly isn't a new idea, and yes, it is being considered. Perhaps you want to start up the business yourself?
Looks boring, even with those gullwings.
Just give me a simple two door with Gull-wing doors.
Also what is price of a hover conversion and a Mr. Fusion to power the battery? I am in the need of a replacement vehicle since my customized DeLorean was...um..hit by a train.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
they've probably not spent anything on webdesign because their company doesn't make any money... and why would that be?
Boats are more expensive then cars. Ask anyone that owns one. They require constant maintenance which is not like cars. Subs are even worse because failing to maintain them doesn't mean your engine dies when you're at sea or you spring a slow leak. It means your hull cracks and you die.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
What worries me slightly is the difficulty involved in making a plug that can carry a couple of hundred volts at a couple of hundred amps, that is safe to be connected and disconnected by unskilled people or by some battery-changing machine, and which will continue to be safe after being sprayed with salty gritty water for a few hundred miles.
Yes, the A3 is hard to tell whether it's a hatchback or a station wagon; it seems to straddle that line; it's like a mini station wagon.
The A3 is basically the same as a Volkswagen Golf - a "Golf premium", shares the same platform, some of the same engines, etc. So it definitely is a hatchback. But yes, they also offer that (and the Golf, too - for some reason that Golf version is called "Jetta" in the US)) as a different chassis version with larger boot. But it's still a smallish car, so I would not call it a station wagon. Should probably look at the Passat Variant or the Audi A6 Variant for that (not sure if those are offered in the US, though).
As someone that was seriously considering the X6 in a few years, this is a welcome entry to the field.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
Nobody I've ever known has had a vehicle rollover situation.
If they did, I'm sure they could kick out the windows and exit via those. Or what, you think a hinged door's going to work it's buckled and twisted by accident damage?
The biggest problem with Gullwing doors is opening the fuckers anywhere there's a roof above you. Vehicle rollover is an utter non-issue.
I'm sorry, but what's next, calling a mini cooper a SUV? this tesla is no SUV, it's just a regular car..
The A3 seems a bit longer than the C30 and Golf. Obviously not as big as a V50, but not so short either.
You do have station wagons. You just call them by a different name. Are you going to tell me you don't have 4-door sedans either? You call those "saloons" for some odd reason (that's a place where you get a drink in the Old West :-) ), but the car is identical. Or that your cars don't have hoods or trunks?
The XC70 seems more like a crossover between a wagon (sorry, "estate") and an SUV; a traditional wagon/estate does not have 4WD and has lower ground clearance, it's just a regular car with a longer wheelbase and the trunk replaced with a larger open compartment. So normally, wagons get virtually the same fuel economy as a the sedan they're based on (similar aerodynamics, identical frontal area, marginally more weight) and almost identical handling (little bit larger turning radius though). Jacking it up and giving it 4WD ruins both those characteristics.
As we see here, there's a lot of modern cars that don't fit cleanly into one category, and seem to straddle a couple.
Parking should be easy. You'd have to add an anchor, but just anchor it offshore somewhere out of the way. Then add a remote-control system, so you can control the sub's diving with remote control, and sink it while you're away, and then when you want to go somewhere, you take an inflatable boat out there, use the remote to make it surface, and get in.
In terms of the plug, I don't see the difference between the power consumption of a heavy electric appliance like a kitchen range, electric clothes dryer, and an electric automobile. Yes, the power consumption is a bit higher, but not significantly so. I think you could build a "fool proof" plug and have some resemblance of safety... although your point is very valid that the amount of energy going through that cable is huge and needs to be treated with respect. You certainly don't want to have some firefighter using the "jaws of life" and cutting through that cable in some kind of vehicle rescue attempt. It certainly isn't like trying to install a car radio... which is very low voltage and comparatively low amperage.
In terms of the salt water spray and other things getting onto the battery and cable, I'd agree that is a big deal too. Imagining somebody pulling into a Chicago battery swap station covered in snow, mud, and salt in the Winter and then somebody reaching through a puddle of that muck to unplug the battery pack..... I shudder at the thought.
Then again, people have been known to die from dispensing gasoline. Usually doing very stupid things (like some woman with nylon stockings getting in and out of her car building up a static charge and then grounding her automobile to the gas pump right at the nozzle) or simply being careless.
A hinged door, at least an ordinary hinged door, doesn't have nearly so many moving parts and therefore is much less likely to break down. For new vehicles, I realize that isn't nearly so big of a deal, but in time sliding doors can be a real pain to work with, particular with older vehicles. They just need a whole lot more attention.
One problem that you've glossed over here on the sliding door, however, is that the door can only be as long as the side of the vehicle, or you have to invent a really exotic system to physically carry the sliding door. Generally there is a track on the bottom of the vehicle that the door slides upon, and that must be at least as long as the door itself. That track BTW is also one of the sources of problems, if it gets gummed up with "stuff". That is something you don't find with any other door system.
One nice thing about the gull-wing doors (or more like the Model X) is that there isn't any real limit on the length of the door. They can be as large or as small as they need to be with the design of the vehicle being used. There is a support mechanism that must be put into place to hold the door up while it is open (so it doesn't go slamming onto your hand or fingers), and that is also where you are most likely to see some sort of mechanical failure as well.
An ordinary hinged door doesn't have those problems.
Have you looked closely at the hinge system on the typical car? Each hinge is usually made out of two main pieces held together with pins which go through sleeves. Each hinge is held on with one to four bolts, each of which has a bolt hopefully with a washer. And then you either have some springs and maybe some mounting hardware for them on the hinge, or a separate device with its own pins, sleeves, and bolts to hold the door in position. This device eventually wears out and has to be replaced; likewise the pins and/or sleeves.
Sliding door systems have similar levels of complexity, and while the track needs to be as long as the travel, you don't need as much travel out of a sliding door to get it out of the way as for a swinging door, especially on vehicles with upright seating arrangements like minivans, pickups, SUVs, crossovers, or even most estates. The sliding mechanism can descend from the track, which is pretty much enough on its own to prevent anything exciting collecting in the track and interfering with its workings. The door latch doesn't even change much, it just gets installed at another angle. And as a final major advantage, it's much much easier to motorize, which can be a big help to the elderly or handicapped.
So in summary, all types of doors have similar problems, but they are generally solvable in each case, except for gullwing doors, which are the most retarded, but sliding doors offer the most benefit to the motorist.
It's good they only used gullwing doors here, but it's still unfortunate that in a rollover the back seat passengers are going to have to get into the front of the vehicle before they can exit via a doorway, that the doors can't be opened where there is little overhead clearance, and so on. I thought Mercedes and DeLorean proved this and that we could all move on. You could solve some of the problems with a folding gullwing, but not all of them, and that just adds complexity. They're a gimmick searching for a purpose beyond gimmickry.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Since it was obviously compromised, I mean designed, by one.
I come here for the love
What about sliding vertical doors?
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
They're garage cars that rich people can buy and tell their friends about over dinner.
They're expensive conversation pieces. If I owned five cars and was looking for a sixth, I might get a Tesla.
If I had 5 other cars, this is the one I would take out for local driving. Assuming it drives well, but it is fast and quiet. And just because one is rich... you shouldnt assume that they all love to waste earth resources. Why would a rich person even consider buying this if not to drive it? It is not a super expensive car. I can name many others in the +100k range that are far more exotic. Its a little ridiculous to say that just because you cannot afford $60-$90k that it is a "rich mans car". I cant afford it... but it is definately not in the exotic collectors range. It seems that the moment anyone mentions the word "electric"... everyone claims that it is for rich people to poke fun of everyone else still using gasoline. And yet truly expensive gas models actually do come out every year from other car makers and I never hear a peep about it... I never hear people complain about them targeting the "rich market", and yet that is exactly what they do.
There are collectors cars for rich garages... this is not one of them
I think the reality is that in our hearts... we all want to be driving electric. But since we cant afford it right now, we just continue to think of reasons why we wouldnt like it anyways. Well I for one will not miss stopping at the stinky gas stations or the engine noise, or the smell from the exhaust.
I'm not assuming the rich like to ruin the environment. I'm assuming that if you have five cars that an electric car will have no meaningful impact on the damage you've done by consuming at least five times as much as the average american house hold.
If you want to do it, have fun. It's your money. But don't pretend like you're doing more then the average guy on the street that just has one compact car. He's much more environmentally friendly then the guy that has five cars one of which is electric. Even if they're all electric... just having that many cars has to have an environmental impact.
I should point out, I'm not an environmentalist... at least, I don't think that ideology would count me as a member though as a resident of this planet I do care about the environment. I just get annoyed by fake environmentalists or fake animal rights activists.
We have lots of holier then thou twits walking around pretending to be better then everyone else because they only buy organic food. They're all a bunch of yuppie posers. Like those celebrities that fly around in private jets and then presume to be more environmentally friendly then joe blow because they bought carbon offset credits. What did those credits actually accomplish? No one seems to care. They're just indulgences. Pay x dollars, al gore buys himself another escort or hot tub... and some fool or corporation gets to pretend like they're doing something for the environment.
Sorry for the rant. I'm just irritated by the false presumption of moral superiority and the insincere nature of the moral debate. It's one thing for politics to be full of lies. That's to be expected. But it's problematic when the very nature of morality becomes little more then another pr campaign.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It's both. It's about saving money and getting off of foriegn oil.