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Apple Launches New Legal Attack On Samsung

walterbyrd writes "Apple Inc has asked a federal court in California to block Samsung Electronics Co Ltd from selling its new Galaxy Nexus smartphones, alleging patent violations. In a suit filed last week in San Jose, Apple said the Galaxy Nexus infringes on patents underlying features customers expect from its products. Those include the ability to unlock phones by sliding an image and to search for information by voice."

490 comments

  1. hmmm by Tmann72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These kinds of software patents are patently bogus.

    1. Re:hmmm by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      Let me slip on my patent penny loafers, This is going to be a long and bumpy ride.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:hmmm by JDAustin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not that they are bogus but that there is substantial prior art for each of them that wasn't given to the patent office.

    3. Re:hmmm by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or...it was given but never looked at because the USPTO is buried with applications that they can't possibly devote the required resources to properly vet.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    4. Re:hmmm by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      It's not that they are bogus but that there is substantial prior art for each of them that wasn't given to the patent office.

      Talking to computers may have cropped up in sci-fi once or twice. Possibly before we actually even had computers.

    5. Re:hmmm by Trent+Hawkins · · Score: 5, Funny

      I believe that patent is held by Professor Scott from Edinburgh.

    6. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apples is clearly scared shitless of Sumsung's hardware + Android.

      Since Apple is so eager to endorse Sunsung as a superior hardware alternative, sounds like it needs to be my next phone purchase.

    7. Re:hmmm by Skapare · · Score: 2

      Not only that, it also violates my patent on slimy business practices.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    8. Re:hmmm by garyebickford · · Score: 2

      Not only that, it also violates my patent on slimy business practices.

      Sorry, there's 5000 years of prior art WRT your patent! :P

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    9. Re:hmmm by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily.

      They may be afraid of some other 3rd party, and be using Samsung (as a perceived easier target) to form the precedent, prior to going after the party they are afraid of.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    10. Re:hmmm by trum4n · · Score: 1

      That has never mattered for Apple....

    11. Re:hmmm by mclaincausey · · Score: 2

      ...or they could simply not want their billions of dollars invested in R&D to be stolen by competitors... They spent money licensing and developing features so that they could be competitive differentiators. Try to look at it from the perspective of someone trying to run a business.

      --
      (%i1) factor(777353);
      (%o1) 777353
    12. Re:hmmm by foradoxium · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you mean from the perspective of businesses that Apple has stood upon?

      On my windows mobile 6 phone, I had a "slide to unlock" screen; So how many billions of dollars did Apple spend R&D'ing that?

      I'm sorry, but Apple is everything they used to speak out against, they are the suits. The amount of "new" things that Apple has patented is very small. Everything else is just a tweak from something else.

    13. Re:hmmm by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They are most certainly afraid of Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0) and they should be. People should really see their BS for what is with these claims, seriously, they own voice control? My Car's navigation system has had voice control for a decade.

    14. Re:hmmm by FunkyELF · · Score: 1

      Money shouldn't be able to buy patents or the sole right to produce something that is obvious, the same as it shouldn't be able to buy laws. The fact that they spent a lot of money on it means nothing.

    15. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

    16. Re:hmmm by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's no excuse for issuing patents that are not properly vetted. If you don't have the resources to properly vet patents, stop issuing patents.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    17. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If they can't properly vet, then they have no business granting it in the first place

    18. Re:hmmm by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 0

      People should really see their BS for what is with these claims, seriously, they own voice control?

      Except that's not what they're claiming. And if you'd bothered to read some portion of this thread (or God forbid, the patents that you're commenting on) you'd know that.
      How about you post something to support your claim that Apple is afraid of ICS? Now that may be a valid and probably interesting comment. I'm not saying they're not, but your post contains nothing to validate your assertion.

    19. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about Star Trek in the 60s. Plus in one of the movies Mr. Scot tries talking to one in modern times and is amazed they do not do speech recognition. Sounds like prior art to me

    20. Re:hmmm by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      People should really see their BS for what is with these claims, seriously, they own voice control?

      Except that's not what they're claiming. And if you'd bothered to read some portion of this thread (or God forbid, the patents that you're commenting on) you'd know that.

      Except it doesn't even matter what they're claiming they're doing with voice. It's all just trivial, obvious improvements using the technology (that Apple didn't invent) available today.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    21. Re:hmmm by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      What is that saying again?...OH yes, Don't hate the player hate the game?

      I fully agree with you. I am however a hopeless romantic realist. While I desperately want to see the happily ever after I expect and usually get the awkward train wreck.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    22. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Technically you are right, but as far as I understand it, the patent office gets more money if a patent is issued than when it is rejected. It also seems to be the case that it costs the PO nothing if a patent is thrown out in court later. Hence, since the PO doesn't lose anything if they issue a bogus patent, why should they bother to vet properly?

    23. Re:hmmm by RenderSeven · · Score: 2

      Interestingly, in that movie the computer he was trying to talk to was a Mac :-)

    24. Re:hmmm by RenderSeven · · Score: 2

      How about you post something to support your claim that Apple is afraid of ICS?

      I gotta think that Jobs saying he was going to destroy Android even if it took every last dollar of his stockholders money, kind of makes that obvious. You dont bankrupt a thriving company to fight something thats not a threat.

    25. Re:hmmm by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      They're also buried in patent applications -- the system feeds the disease accelerating the deviancy of the system.

    26. Re:hmmm by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 2

      It's not that they are bogus but that there is substantial prior art for each of them that wasn't given to the patent office.

      Talking to computers may have cropped up in sci-fi once or twice.

      Well, that would make it both prior and art, but not prior art.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    27. Re:hmmm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      A nation is made up of its citizens just as a game is made up of its players.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:hmmm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      People should really see their BS for what is with these claims, seriously, they own voice control?

      Except that's not what they're claiming.

      They're essentially claiming voice control "on the internet" and I thought we had already established here on slashdolt that "...on the internet" patents are bullshit. They're not claiming any non-obvious refinements. The obviousness test SHOULD still apply. I give not one fuck if it is subjective, it's just one more thing that should exist to invalidate patents.

      They're also claiming rounded corners "...on a tablet" and if you can just apply the slightest bit of logic, if "...on the internet" is bullshit then "...on a tablet" is doubly bullshit since a tablet is just a laptop with less hardware.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    29. Re:hmmm by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      Ice Cream Sandwich is nothing to be afraid of since is deployed on so few phones. Less than 1.0% of Android users are blessed with ICS. Most are slumming in the 2.x series and will never see 4.0. That is just pathetic. Android is very much a one purchase platform. You buy one, realize that it wasn't a great experience, and look for something else.

    30. Re:hmmm by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      They're essentially claiming voice control "on the internet" and I thought we had already established here on slashdolt that "...on the internet" patents are bullshit.

      Er, no they're not.

      Read the patent claim: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8086604.PN.&OS=PN/8086604&RS=PN/8086604

      You can't just repeat the same old nonsense and hope that no-one notices. It's not even specific to voice control, although does appear to be related to their implementation of Siri.

    31. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh man, can you *please* ( pretty please ) share around that stuff you are smoking? By the sounds of it, it creates amazing hallucinations and the total reduction of ones logical faculties into a monotonous grey goo.

      Ill pass on the perverted desire to continue trying to take Dead Steve up the ass though.

      You dear sir are the new poster child for the explanation to other people of what an Apple Shill sounds like.

    32. Re:hmmm by ThePeices · · Score: 1

      So you are upset that other people like a phone platform that you dont? Your points are so biased and laughable, I dont know where to start.

      I totally love it how you use the word steal in the first paragraph, not only did it make me laugh, but it taints your entire poor argument.

      Apple made an OK phone platform, so therefore they are morally right in pulling the BS they are doing now?
      If IOS was so "wonderful", so "magical", so "cool", to phrase Apple, why are people now buying them in droves? Why are they not at the top of the smartphone market?

      Its because ( shock horror), Apple have not made a perfect one size fits all affordable product.

    33. Re:hmmm by johnlcallaway · · Score: 1

      They are not 'searching' using voice, they are doing voice-to-text translation, then apply that to an already existing interface. No different from what other software has been doing for decades.

      What is funny about all of this is how their lack of innovation is finally catching up to them. After decades of minor improvements to someone else's ideas, other companies are doing the same thing and doing it better. And doing it so that consumers have more choices than 'black or white', and starting to whip Apple's butt because of it.

      Maybe if Apple finally got off of their 'we know what the consumer wants better than they do' wagon, they might learn one thing the one thing that is driving Android sales, and that is that consumers like having choices. Given two items that technically are mostly the same, I'll usually prefer the one that offers more options and price points.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    34. Re:hmmm by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Modded as trolling for pointing out that the patent doesn't relate to voice control as mis-stated in the article and repeated throughout the thread?

      Or modded as trolling because I highlighted that the required information to understand the patent claim is posted in response throughout the thread? Here it is again: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8086604.PN.&OS=PN/8086604&RS=PN/8086604

      Or modded as trolling because I appealed for another user to put some substance to their posted opinion?

      Or modded as trolling because I didn't attack the US patent system and/or Apple?

    35. Re:hmmm by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      I really and truly hope you are trolling... for your sake. If not, Android didn't steal shit. All that changed with phones was that the tech got smaller and multi-touch enabled gestures. Beyond that, the interfaces are no more similar than iOS is to Palm OS (sans gestures because of the lack of multi-touch capable screens.) Gestures themselves were a non-innovative invention as everyone had wanted to be able to do them for a long time.

      What Apple did do is build out a market through marketing. They mass marketed the success of their iPod to market the iPhone as a phone version of the iPod. They used a brand people knew in order to launch it in to the main stream. It wasn't technical innovation on their part, simply good business sense. Now they are simply trying to sue to keep other competitors from taking over their market share. It's that simple.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    36. Re:hmmm by nbahi15 · · Score: 1

      It all depends in your position on software patents and design. If you live in the US they are the law of the land.

      Our company, for example, cannot sell our product in the US because we would most certainly violate a software patent from a US company regarding trading ladders.

      If you are offended by the word steal then clearly you don't know much about common usage in the english language, nor can you empathize with Apple's position. Stealing in this case means, "taking sales from." This is common usage of the term. Apple's position appears to be that Android and Samsung have had almost no original thought in their product. Just look at Android SDK around 2007. Then look at the post iPhone releases. Look at the phones from major manufacturers in 2007 and then again in the post-iPhone market. If you can't see that Apple changed the competitive landscape then I guess there isn't much more to discuss.

      When you've done that look at Windows Phone 7. There are original ideas and a new approaches to that design. I would be surprised to see Apple ever pursue WP7's design legally.

      While I can't speak to your personal finances, iPhone can cost as little as a dollar in some markets with certain carriers. If that isn't affordable, what is?

    37. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple have always been "the suits". They've never spoken out against patent abuse - indeed they've always been litigious. The only thing that's set apple apart from all the other asshole companies has been the slavish following of users stuck in the Steve Jobs reality distortion field. Hopefully they'll start migrating off to follow someone else like the moonies or scientologists now he's gone though.

    38. Re:hmmm by PaladinAlpha · · Score: 1

      You mean old phones don't have new software? Yeah, that's crazy. It's almost like they're creating more feature-rich software.

      Most of the Android phones that people like you love to point out as "WHAR upgrade WHAR" were built as budget phones and simply don't have the horsepower for serious upgrades. With an average two-year turnaround in the American consumer cellphone market, I can't say this is a serious problem.

      Everyone I know (20+ people) who have bought their first Android -- some of them coming from iPhones -- have stuck with it in successive purchases (or plan to when applicable). Not really the one purchase platform you claim. (Anecdotes, etc., but you're the one making blanket claims.)

    39. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were it not for the fact that the missing comma renders it grammatically incorrect, this would be a great example of a garden path sentence. The initial (garden path) interpretation is:

      While I desperately want to see the happily ever after [that] I expect and usually get, ...

      This is clearly wrong, but you don't realize that it is wrong until after you reach the end of the sentence and realize that there is no verb after "the awkward train wreck".

      This is roughly the English equivalent of a shift-reduce conflict in computer language parsing. Fortunately, it can be avoided by adding a comma in the right place:

      While I desperately want to see the happily ever after, I expect and usually get the awkward train wreck.

      Note that the comma after an introductory clause is not generally considered optional.

      Sincerely,
      The anonymous grammarian

    40. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been married for 30 years voice control for my car has around longer than siri.

    41. Re:hmmm by Fluffeh · · Score: 1

      Since Apple is so eager to endorse Sunsung as a superior hardware alternative, sounds like it needs to be my next phone purchase.

      When my old iPhone 3 (combined with a terrible data rate on my provider at the time) started really looking like it needed an upgrade, I decided to buy the Samsung Galaxy II S. Now, I get that the hardware is a few generations apart, but let me say, Wow, Wow, WOW. I have never looked back, and never will. I could not recommend it more.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    42. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please, as if a company would supply evidence that they should not get the patent. They can always claim ignorance, saying they never knew this prior art existed, but there is literally ZERO incentive to informing the patent office about prior art... in fact, the single only possible result aside from NOTHING would be having your patent request denied.

    43. Re:hmmm by freman · · Score: 1

      Have you tried to do dictation on an android? it sux...

    44. Re:hmmm by GodInHell · · Score: 2

      Uhm . . . yes, often, almost daily. I would not describe it as "sux" so much as "adequate." I've tried to ask Siri questions, anything more substantive than "what are you wearing" hur hur, tends to get an error or she answers some other question. Speech to text is not perfect -- I have what I like to call the "foreign tongue test" -- hand your phone off to someone with a heavy foreign accent (anyone from the mid-east tends to work great) and have them speak to the the phone. The android adapts in 1-3 questions -- Siri just dies.

      -GiH

    45. Re:hmmm by mikecase · · Score: 2

      So, obviously, we need to rework the system so that the incentive so that rejection is the most rewarding/path of least resistance. A simple idea might be to double application fees and refund 1/2 if the patent is granted. Perhaps the patent examiner should be compelled to testify in IP cases where the patent is questioned. In today's world the barrier to getting a new patent should be much higher (with regards to prior art, not an impossibly high application cost). The PO's default answer should start with no, and take a very compelling argument to make it yes.

    46. Re:hmmm by Cederic · · Score: 1

      But what upsets me about Android and Samsung is that the phones and the platform just suck

      That'll be why the iPhone 4 owners in my office want to upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy Nexus after having a play with mine.

      (..and _that_ will be why Apple are running scared and suing Samsung)

    47. Re:hmmm by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      As far as I'm aware, a publicized description of a process or idea in any form constitutes prior art, even if it was never intended to be used in a commercial production capacity.

      It's entirely possible I'm wrong though.

    48. Re:hmmm by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      The patent office doesn't care if you want to get a weak patent, it won't hold up in court, right? So, no big deal, you'd be dumb to get such a weak patent... right? Well, yeah, if the courts weren't ignorant of the tech... So it's complicated...The patent examiners try somewhat to make sure everything seems legit, but that's the extent of it. The applicant is supposed to have checked for prior art -- the rats are in charge of the cheese, so to speak.

      The patent offices defer to the court system. The failing is in the court system that sides with patent holders because they have no clue about the tech patents, and think, well this is "vetted" by the PTO, so it's probably good.

      Channel your hate to those abusing the system. You don't want cops watching you piss in the Mall bathrooms, so shoplifting will continue... You don't want to bog the patent system down even more, so trolling will continue. What we need are penalties for having an invalid patent submitted... however, fixed pricing would be folly.

    49. Re:hmmm by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      On my windows mobile 6 phone, I had a "slide to unlock" screen

      How do you know there wasn't a license fee for that? Or, more likely, some MS-Apple cross-license agreement?

    50. Re:hmmm by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Now everyone is learning the true ramifications of patent first laws versus first to invent laws.

      Patent office search, is it already patented, no, patent it. Prior art, common knowledge, obvious, all of it thrown out of the window for, is it already patented.

      Now you have dick companies like Apple patenting the obvious to anticompetitive and hence criminally block competition not permanently but in true psychopath form, sufficiently long for a marketing advantage.

      The straight up in full public view abuse of patent laws, anti trust laws and a basic big 'fuck you' to any body who doesn't want to buy their products.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    51. Re:hmmm by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      I gotta think that Jobs saying he was going to destroy Android even if it took every last dollar of his stockholders money, kind of makes that obvious. You dont bankrupt a thriving company to fight something thats not a threat.

      I thought it was Steve Jobs being on a vendetta because he felt Eric Schmidt had been spying for Google for years before resigning? Likewise their attack on Samsung who Apple feels has been stealing their designs while they're supposed to be acting as their manufacturer and thus betrayed their trust.

    52. Re:hmmm by jazzis · · Score: 1

      All of the above. Mod up as totally insightful "troll".

    53. Re:hmmm by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Maybe because apple didnt make phones back then! Pretty obvious that I would have thought.

    54. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like this

    55. Re:hmmm by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Voice recognition in automated help/answering systems predates apple's siri. I distinctly remember calling the ATT support line for my area, and being greeted by a female robot that wanted me to speak aloud my account number. This was sometime around 2005.

      Primitive, yes, but predates their patent.

      Dragon naturally speaking has it beat, since the speech recognition prototype algorithms used were initially taken to market in 1982.

      http://atwiki.assistivetech.net/index.php/Dragon_NaturallySpeaking

      I am fairly certain that the iphone wasn't even a wetdream for apple's favorite psychopath, the venerable Mr. Jobs, when this technology hit the scene. That the success of this technology ins successive years would be a logical progression for user interactions is highly obvious, and implementation on a handset engineered to be a general purpose computing environment is not noteworthy from a technological viewpoint, as it is precisely the kind of environment that the inventors of the algorithm tested their implementations on.

      This patent should not have been granted to apple.

    56. Re:hmmm by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      This could well be something dating all the way back to Newton, for all we know.

    57. Re:hmmm by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      but people used the same argument when 2.x WAS the great experience?

      software doesn't degrade just because a new version is out.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    58. Re:hmmm by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      billions of dollars of R&D stolen?

      are you claiming that Google has used the ACTUAL CODE that apple used? did they steal any property, intellectual or otherwise?

      OR, did they look at what apple had done, and say "yeah, we can do that too".

      If that is the case, and they were able to make a similar system easily, then to me that sounds like the patents covered something that is obvious to someone skilled in the art...and are therefore invalid.

      A patent should only be valid where someone skilled in the same field would not be able to independently come up with the implementation without inside knowledge on the patent.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    59. Re:hmmm by bgibby9 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the patent examiner should be compelled to testify in IP cases where the patent is questioned.

      Now THAT'S an idea!

      --
      http://www.gibby.net.au
    60. Re:hmmm by bgibby9 · · Score: 1

      This definitely seems plausible.

      --
      http://www.gibby.net.au
    61. Re:hmmm by bgibby9 · · Score: 1

      I agree. The idea that your hardware is going to be fantastic even 6-12 months from it's original purchase date is delusional.

      I expect that future hardware will perform better and have done so ever since buying my first 486.

      I can't imagine why people who buy Apple hardware expect anything different!

      --
      http://www.gibby.net.au
    62. Re:hmmm by bgibby9 · · Score: 1

      But what upsets me about Android and Samsung is that the phones and the platform just suck. I hate developing on it. Terrible architecture, 1990s state of the art programming language, poor performance, terrible tools.

      Well after developing for both iOS and Android I can honestly say that NEITHER have the development process down pat.

      I hated Objective-C when I started but after a while I didn't mind it. Compare that to Java well I guess you're between a rock and a hard place.

      No matter what camp you're in, you're never going to please EVERYBODY. Just accept it!

      --
      http://www.gibby.net.au
    63. Re:hmmm by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Try to look at it from the perspective of someone trying to run a business.

      From the point of view of someone trying to run a business, it is foolish to invest billions in R&D on something that is trivial to copy and then rely on imaginary property protection laws to give you a return on your investment.

    64. Re:hmmm by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Apple's position appears to be that Android and Samsung have had almost no original thought in their product. Just look at Android SDK around 2007

      Which is why Apple "stole" the notification bar from Android?

      If you can't see that Apple changed the competitive landscape

      So you are saying Apple's only contribution is changing the competitive landscape. Which is not patented. Hence they are justified in spreading patent terrorism in unrelated areas. Interesting.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    65. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Searching for information by voice surely has prior art: "Excuse me, but which way to Albequerque?"

    66. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know there wasn't a license fee for that? Or, more likely, some MS-Apple cross-license agreement?

      Unlikely since Apple didn't invent that feature.
      Please step out of the Reality Distortion Field now.

    67. Re:hmmm by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      As far as I'm aware, a publicized description of a process or idea in any form constitutes prior art, even if it was never intended to be used in a commercial production capacity.

      It's entirely possible I'm wrong though.

      Sorry, but "Computer, where is the next Starbase" doesn't cut it as a description of the process. And no, the idea most certainly doesn't cut it - because then dreams would be reality.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    68. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was talking to computers long before he tried and failed to talk to the MAC.

    69. Re:hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or they could simply not want their billions of dollars invested in R&D to be stolen by competitors... They spent money licensing and developing features so that they could be competitive differentiators. Try to look at it from the perspective of someone trying to run a business.

      Apple has one of the lowest R&D budget in the whole mobile market.
      Their innovations are mostly designs one. They don't do a lot of research in material (which is the most costly part).

      Don't be wrong. I don't blame them for that. A lot of big companies do the same. They prefer buying successeful start ups than taking the risk themselves.
      But, don't pretend Apple protects its R&D. If it's protecting something, it's its investments.

    70. Re:hmmm by Scragglykat · · Score: 1

      Because Apple just applied for this patent last year. Unless they already own a patent on time control devices.

    71. Re:hmmm by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Or...it was given but never looked at because the USPTO is buried with applications that they can't possibly devote the required resources to properly vet.

      I guess the government is in cahoots with the lawyers who need to make big bucks fighting patents. As long as the lawyers give a kickback to the parties in power (known as a political donation), no additional staff or clarifications will be required of the patent office.

      In a way, since the USA is not even in reactive mode (forget proactive), it will take patent offices in other countries to dictate whether a patent is legitimate.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    72. Re:hmmm by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auYqOzgj_Dc

      Not that you will even notice, as you are AC...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ....has been on Android long before it was on iOS. I guess we know Apple is going to use their warchest to be anti-competitive.

    Yay software patents.

    No slide to unlock? Perhaps we should make a "place genitals here" unlock mechanism. At least that may not be patented yet.

    1. Re:Voice Search by vlm · · Score: 1

      No slide to unlock? Perhaps we should make a "place genitals here" unlock mechanism. At least that may not be patented yet.

      Finally a use for that "embed an Arduino in womens clothing" idea that just won't go away and has mostly been used to implement flashing lights...

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Voice Search by poetmatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let them keep it up. They're just building a case for patent misuse - the B&N case will be a simple how-to sue for patent misuse to be used on Apple.

    3. Re:Voice Search by MogNuts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. Now all the fanboys see Apple for what they are.

      I just laugh at all the comments over the years. Every time Apple applies and gets a new patent, every Apple lover replies with "b-but but but they'll never use them! And they're probably doing it to protect themselves!" or some other lame excuse.

      Well now the answer is clear. And they're worse than even SCO or Microsoft. At least they just wanted a cut of the money. Not Apple. They want to hinder one of the most useful and important things that benefit people today.

      Though what is interesting is, *for Apple to do this*, must mean that they are scared. Very scared. Can't compete with inferior tech, so let's litigate. They wouldn't do this if they were confident that its product really is superior, and really is "magical."

    4. Re:Voice Search by Tsingi · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... Perhaps we should make a "place genitals here" unlock mechanism. At least that may not be patented yet.

      Yeah, Lotsa prior art there. I could send you some.

    5. Re:Voice Search by Canazza · · Score: 3, Informative

      whats even funnier is that Siri is just Wolfram alpha with a screen reader.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    6. Re:Voice Search by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. Now all the fanboys see Apple for what they are.

      If only that were true.

      You need to remember that it's the fanboys that defended Apple's idiotic "look and feel" patent based on rounded fucking corners and square icons. They'll defend this just as insipidly.

      They wouldn't see Apple for what they are if Zombie Steve Jobs came back to fuck them in the eye.

    7. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No slide to unlock? Perhaps we should make a "place genitals here" unlock mechanism. At least that may not be patented yet.

      Well that's one way to spread viruses...

    8. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of what you wrote, but saying that they are worse than SCO is a stretch. SCO's "terrorist" tactics caused IBM to drastically change its open source policy. There are many many restrictions now in place on open source code that they can use, and must follow a strict process by a separate team before it may be used. This includes newer versions of already processed open source software as well. Prior to SCO it was much easier to use open source software ( or give back) on IBM projects.

    9. Re:Voice Search by JosKarith · · Score: 2

      Combine that with an electric shock security system and we might just have a tamper-proof phone.
      Or the latest sex toy for the seriously jaded...

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    10. Re:Voice Search by nemui-chan · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yup. Now all the fanboys see Apple for what they are.

      I just laugh at all the comments over the years. Every time Apple applies and gets a new patent, every Apple lover replies with "b-but but but they'll never use them! And they're probably doing it to protect themselves!" or some other lame excuse.

      ... .No they don't. That's why they're by definition, 'fanboys'. They'll claim that Samsung is infringing upon the Apple patents regardless of prior proof. We've seen Google fanboys do it all over the place whenever someone says something bad about Google or Google does something questionable. A fanboy is a fanboy.

    11. Re:Voice Search by steelfood · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They see it as Mac vs. Windows all over again, and guess who won last time?

      This time though, it's Google behind the reins of their fiercest competitor. And unlike Microsoft, who's only interested in eventually assimilating everything they touch, Google doesn't try to control the ecosystems they build, only their little slice of it.

      It makes Android that much more dangerous for Apple, because it's the antithesis of what Apple stands for, and how Apple operates. A free (speech) and open system will always triumph over a closed system assuming the same features. All parties know this. And that's why Apple's desperately trying to reduce Android's features via patent lawsuits. They cannot compete in any other way.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    12. Re:Voice Search by MogNuts · · Score: 3, Informative

      An apologist or misguided, I don't know which one you are. No, Apple has a history of *litigation.* NOT being a patent troll who flat-out is attempting to block out an entire industry. And on top of that, why are you defending this anyway? You think this is ok?

      Witness the countless times Apple has ruined other businesses via litigation, especially small businesses only attempting to make a living off its ecosystem and making a contribution, from the earliest days. Via litigation.

      And patent enforcers goal is to extract fees or a cut of the revenue. Again, even the slimiest of the slimy, SCO, wasn't even attempting what Apple wants. They simply wanted a piece of the pie. Not to throw all the pies on the ground in a temper tantrum, stomp on it, rub it in your face, and then offer their own strudel instead.

    13. Re:Voice Search by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      whats even funnier is that Siri is just Wolfram alpha with a screen reader.

      Funny, I thought it was Dragon Dictate on LSD...

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    14. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's interesting, but I'm having trouble getting the following queries to work on Wolfram Alpha:

      Wolfram Alpha, send an email to my wife telling her I'll be late.
      Wolfram Alpha, what are the closest bagel shops?
      Wolfram Alpha, set a reminder for tomorrow at noon.

      pls advise. thx.

    15. Re:Voice Search by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Though what is interesting is, *for Apple to do this*, must mean that they are scared. Very scared. Can't compete with inferior tech, so let's litigate.

      So is Motorola Mobility (aka Google).

      I don't like it either, but I don't think it indicates anything besides that corporations are scumbags, which we already knew.

    16. Re:Voice Search by SiMac · · Score: 1

      It makes Android that much more dangerous for Apple, because it's the antithesis of what Apple stands for, and how Apple operates. A free (speech) and open system will always triumph over a closed system assuming the same features. All parties know this.

      Then why are most people's desktops running Windows?

    17. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *for Apple to do this*, must mean that they are scared. Very scared. Can't compete with inferior tech, so let's litigate. They wouldn't do this if they were confident that its product really is superior

      This fanboy/anti-fanboy shit is +5,insightful on Slashdot? It couldn't be that Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple and set out to clone the iPhone, backstabbing Jobs and angering him. It couldn't be that Jobs' dying wish was "from hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee" or possibly something slightly less cartoon villainy. Because we all know a corporation can only display fear, not hate... yeah, right.

    18. Re:Voice Search by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Case in point.

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    19. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....has been on Android long before it was on iOS.

      Hell, I think Google even offered the service, for free, via POTS, before there was even consideration of an iPhone. Remember Google's 411 service? If my timing is off a little, it still puts Google first with online searching via voice in iPhone's very earliest of days, long before Apple even realized it was an option. So basically it appears Apple wants to sue people because they copied everyone else. WTF is wrong with them.

    20. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First, Google does not own Motorola yet. The deal has yet to be cleared, and by law they can't start mixing work up until that clears.

      Second, Motorola is suing based on the vast amounts of groundbreaking work they did to make cell phones even possible in the first place. Apple is suing because someone dared to put a "drag this to unlock" function on their phone. It's immensely different.

    21. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi bonch. Not willing to sign your inane Google venom today?

    22. Re:Voice Search by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 2

      ... Perhaps we should make a "place genitals here" unlock mechanism. At least that may not be patented yet.

      Yeah, Lotsa prior art there. I could send you some.

      Yeah, I can see where you come from.

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    23. Re:Voice Search by spitzak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because Windows was more free than Apple. Any computer manufacturer could make a machine and sell it with Windows on it, by buying a license for it. They could not do that to make a machine running Apple software.

    24. Re:Voice Search by SpeZek · · Score: 1

      Because Windows has features (AKA popular programs) that don't work so well with free operating systems?

    25. Re:Voice Search by nbahi15 · · Score: 2

      As a likely candidate for the fanboy title, since I seem to be accused of it fairly regularly, I will say that the whole issue is whether you like software patents or not. I don't like software patents, but that is the environment you live in. Apple operates within that environment, as does the opposition. They all use patents as a competitive weapon. So what? Don't like it? How about changing the law? I'm waiting.

    26. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Search for information by voice: "Computer is on the Enterprise?"

    27. Re:Voice Search by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Please keep in mind that the purchase of Motorola by Google was simply a defensive measure against MS and Apple. MS was shaking down its partners and Apple is doing what they're doing now, only they began with HTC.

    28. Re:Voice Search by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      Also, Windows was well established before Linux was even remotely close to competitive in terms of hardware support and simplicity. Now the learning curve is probably one of the main issues for people and that keeps the software from becoming available. At this point, if Linux could get a big enough market share to get major software titles behind it, chances are good it would be hard for MS to keep Windows in the forefront, but for now, Linux has a chicken and egg problem it has to address.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    29. Re:Voice Search by arose · · Score: 1

      First one's not search. Second one will be answered by Google maps. Third one is not a search. So you got one search query and two device commands. Try: "Siri, what is a search query?". Maybe you can learn something useful.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    30. Re:Voice Search by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      If I was an Apple stock holder, I would be pissed at the idea that that warchest is going to be pissed away on dumb lawsuits like this instead of used to either create new products or just pay me my money with a dividend.

    31. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Fanboys] wouldn't see Apple for what they are if Zombie Steve Jobs came back to fuck them in the eye.

      Heck, I believe they'd line up for that...

    32. Re:Voice Search by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      NOT being a patent troll who flat-out is attempting to block out an entire industry.

      A patent troll is a company with a patent, usually purchased, that have no intention of making a product that includes the invention. Their primary business is suing others for royalties.

      That's not Apple. Apple is using patents in exactly the way they were intended. They patent the innovations that are going in their own products.

      Of course that's OK.

    33. Re:Voice Search by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Maybe it'll need a tactile response to let the user know it's been successful. Perhaps a small vibration?

      I'm sensing a market opportunity here.

    34. Re:Voice Search by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately they also patent a ton of shit and sue people based on that. Yes, rounded fucking corners. Yes, voice search. Shit, voice search on a phone has been around since I first owned a phone - haven't you fucking heard of "Directory Enquiries" ?

    35. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No-one would have the balls to patent that.

    36. Re:Voice Search by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately they also patent a ton of shit and sue people based on that. Yes, rounded fucking corners.

      No, not rounded corners. That's a slashdot meme. There is a DESIGN patent (which is not the same as a patent) that has rounded corners as just one line of the description of their design.

      Shit, voice search on a phone has been around since I first owned a phone - haven't you fucking heard of "Directory Enquiries" ?

      Are you trying really hard to sound like a moron?

    37. Re:Voice Search by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      At this point though, Apple's major benefit is the incredible market inertia they possess. Windows is not necessarily the best technically, but the resistance to change is pretty high. People use them because people use them. It may sound trite, but it's also true to a very large extent. Apple is likely to win for the same reason Microsoft continues to win. What gave them their start was different for pretty much all parties, but what allows them to continue to dominate a market sector is essentially the same.

      That Apple has such a large installed base of iProducts makes it very hard to compete with them, regardless of their future actions. Just look at the time, money, and environment changes required to unseat RIM as top smartphone provider, despite the differences between their platforms. This is not to say either is better, but that they serve different market segments in different ways but RIM was still able to hang onto large numbers of people who would have been better served by Apple. They are also now losing people who probably are better served by RIM, but the inertia is changed so radically at this point that RIM no longer holds the advantage.

      I say all of this as a fan of RIM, and a non-fan of Apple. It's just how markets work. A free and open system will not necessarily triumph given the same features. Only if it can overcome the inertia of the dominant installed base(s) will it ever have the opportunity to "win."

    38. Re:Voice Search by Cederic · · Score: 1

      No, I'm just pissed off with the inanity of the patents companies apply for, are granted, then use to sue other companies. I had a phone with voice search on it before Apple even started developing the first iPhone, and yeah, I mean built into the phone itself.

      Let alone the obviousness of "talk to your phone". No shit. Damn, didn't see that one coming.

      Lets face it, Apple's acting like a bunch of cunts, doing their best to fuck over a competitive market by acting very anticompetitively and all because their excessive profit margins are under threat from other competitors offering superior products.

      You may call that viewpoint moronic, but you lack any credibility so it doesn't really matter.

    39. Re:Voice Search by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      Rounded corners.

      Tap to call.

      So innovative. And certainly didn't exist before Apple invented them!

    40. Re:Voice Search by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      They see it as Mac vs. Windows all over again, and guess who won last time?

      Actually, Apple was suing a lot of companies, including Microsoft. I think Apple won several of the lawsuits they filed. I think Apple put GEM out of business.

    41. Re:Voice Search by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Frankly Basil, your doing a pretty good apple fanboys impression, interms of reality denial. Its always fun to see the industrial strength cognitive dissonance of Apple fanboys.

    42. Re:Voice Search by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You think I should be one of the slashdot sheeple like you? Baaah! Baaah! Bleeeeet! Baaah!

    43. Re:Voice Search by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're now listing imaginary patents.

    44. Re:Voice Search by bgibby9 · · Score: 1

      So Majel should have put a patent on it huh! :)

      --
      http://www.gibby.net.au
    45. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First one's not search. Second one will be answered by Google maps. Third one is not a search. So you got one search query and two device commands.

      Was this supposed to prove that "Siri is just Wolfram alpha with a screen reader"?

    46. Re:Voice Search by wrook · · Score: 1

      It makes Android that much more dangerous for Apple, because it's the antithesis of what Apple stands for, and how Apple operates. A free (speech) and open system will always triumph over a closed system assuming the same features. All parties know this.

      Then why are most people's desktops running Windows?

      I think the OP is incorrect with the way they stated issue. Free software has potential advantages for customers in many ways. This is especially true for enterprise customers who do not get locked into a single vendor. They can even make modifications themselves if they have development resources. The ability to redistribute freely also lets small customers ride on the coat-tails of large customers in a way that doesn't necessarily hurt the big customer.

      From an open source perspective, open source and free software development can be done essentially as large joint ventures with low barriers to entry. This allows the cost of development to be spread across a number of different entities. It also allows entities with dissimilar interests to benefit from each others work while specializing on their own. They end up with a much more comprehensive solution than they could practically manage individually.

      There are very few (if any???) advantages to a customer for choosing proprietary software, though there are some advantages to the developer in the ability to lock in their customers and lock out competition with an aim towards a monopoly.

      My opinion of why proprietary desktop solutions are ubuquitus while free software destop solutions are rare is that proprietary vendors (both Microsoft and Apple) do a very good job of exploiting the advantages of their business model. In the cases of Microsoft and Apple, they also successfully lobby various governments to make laws that make their advantages easier to maintain. On the other hand, free software vendors do a poor job of exploiting their advantages. We *do* see some good organizations (Apache is an excellent example and there is a reason why they have dominated for a long time). But in terms the desktop, there are very few companies who have figured out how to sell custom development to enterprise cutomers and leverage that development into securing new customers. It happens on the server side, but the desktop has been lagging.

      My personal belief is that, barring making it illegal through ridiculous paten law, etc, free and open source software advantages can outcompete proprietary advantages. The main reason is that the advantages to proprietary methods is largely abusive to the customer. If faced with a viable alternatives which comes without the abuse they will choose that (Free software is a consumer protection movement after all). But unlike the OP, I don't believe it will happen automatically. We still need cluefull corporations who know how to build pure-play free software companies. Right now those are rare. Hopefully they will become more common.

    47. Re:Voice Search by arose · · Score: 1

      No, it was supposed to demonstrate AC's complete lack of contextual awareness. Article, summary and subject of sub thread all reference voice search to which the voice control aspects of Siri are irrelevant.

      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    48. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple triggered and has continued to escalate this whole patent war. There was relative peace between handset manufacturers in a kind of gentlemans agreement that all patents would just be used defensively. Then Steve Jobs threw his toys out the pram because of Android, a viable competitor to iOS and triggered the first major aggressive patent suits, starting off the whole fucking war.

      It's this whole trying to fob blame off of Apple onto the system that would make people call you a fanboy. The system is broken sure, but until Apple royally fucked things, companies were at least trying to make it work, and now thanks to Apple we've got nothing but companies throwing money down the drain, and a massive detriment to innovation. It seems that because Apple has given up innovating, they feel everyone else should have to as well.

    49. Re:Voice Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple doesn't just operate in that environment, they seem to thrive in it. I don't know of any company that does it nearly as much as them. They are using the law to the point of trying to hinder competition. Its absolute poison to a competitive marketplace. This is the kind of ecosystem that the patent system is designed to prevent.

    50. Re:Voice Search by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Try telling it you want to be called princess from now on :)

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. Yawn. by piripiri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is starting to become childish.

    1. Re:Yawn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Starting?
      Apple has been 'childish' since they started giving away machines to schools. The constant back and forth of patents is old news. It was old when Apple and M$ were suing each other over who violated their GUI look and feel... that they both 'borrowed' from Xerox!!!

    2. Re:Yawn. by Moheeheeko · · Score: 5, Funny
      You havent seen anything yet

      Wait till Apple finds out that Samsung phones "allow people to communicate via text and voice"

    3. Re:Yawn. by Zemran · · Score: 1

      Apple and Samsung are both overpriced but while they fight it out LG are quietly bringing out some really good cheap and cheerful phones with all the bells and whistles at much better prices.
      http://www.lg.com/uk/mobile-phones/all-lg-phones/all-lg-phones.jsp

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    4. Re:Yawn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Apple asked Xerox if they could make a GUI based on theirs, because Xerox were too dumb to realize what they had. They thought only commercial computers required a GUI.

      And Microsoft simply copied the GUI from Apple without asking, i.e. the standard "Microsoft Innovation" pattern.

    5. Re:Yawn. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 3, Funny

      I prefer my mobile communication devices to be surly.

    6. Re:Yawn. by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      I prefer my mobile communication devices to be surly.

      Gone are the good ole days when your satellite phone was a briefcase.

    7. Re:Yawn. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually Apple hired Microsoft to help program the GUI. Microsoft in turn agreed not to create their own GUI OS and we all know how that turned out. But in case there are some who don't...Apple sued Microsoft over Windows and lost, and lost, and lost, and lost but never quite suing until it looked like they were going to win and so in 1997 Microsoft bought $150 Million non-voting Apple shares and promised to keep making MAC Office for at least 5 more years.

      I find it interesting that Steve Jobs ultimately became very much like the image of the oppressor he created in the MAC 1984 commercial.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    8. Re:Yawn. by C0R1D4N · · Score: 1

      I just ditched my LG Ally because it was a pure piece of shit

    9. Re:Yawn. by Zemran · · Score: 1

      The last Samsung I had spent more time back at the shop than in my pocket... I do not think that LG are as good as Apple but at half the price I think they are better value. I have a Sony Xperia in my pocket at the moment and it is good but only because it was free. I am a fanboy and prefer Apple but I am really fed up with all this BS and the price tags for what is now an old design.

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    10. Re:Yawn. by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Apple asked Xerox if they could make a GUI based on theirs, because Xerox were too dumb to realize what they had.

      Oh please. Xerox took $1 million in Apple stock in exchange for allowing them to visit the PARC and see if there was anything that could be commercialised. It's not like Steve Jobs snuck in one night with a camera and took snapshots of ze secret plans. Xerox invited Apple to commercialise Xerox's concepts in exchange for an ownership stake in Apple, a stake which at Apple's present valuation must be worth pretty close to the value of the USA and everything in it.

    11. Re:Yawn. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      After careful investigation, I came to the conclusion that all of the new mobile phones on the market are crap and expensive. So I bought a two-year-old model. It's also crap, but at least it wasn't expensive...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Yawn. by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Actually Apple hired Microsoft to help program the GUI. Microsoft in turn agreed not to create their own GUI OS and we all know how that turned out.

      That was IBM, not Apple.

    13. Re:Yawn. by thejaq · · Score: 1

      The max PPS of AAPL in 1997 was $6. Did MS return 9500% on their investment and do they currently own 1/3 of Apple or did they sell those shares? mm. Looks like they sold those shares in 2003 and only doubled their investment. That would have been a bizarre alternate reality.

    14. Re:Yawn. by The_Laughing_God · · Score: 2

      It was ironic back *in* 1984.

      I was an Apple developer pre-Mac, and THAT is when it began looking like Big Brother. The Apple II/III had been open (not quite as open as today's open source, but the principles hadn't yet been firmed up) but everything Mac, hardware and software was locked down. Apple forbade early Mac owners from using ANY hard disk for 18-24 months until they developed their own. Even an external HDD voided the warranty which you *needed* because Mac's expensive non-user-replaceable power supplies blew out every 6 mos, even without the load of an HDD

    15. Re:Yawn. by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      I did the same with an LG Neon. Damn thing wouldn't even stay on. Thankfully I found the cellphone that I had lost a week previous, which was the reason I bought that POS to start with.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    16. Re:Yawn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually Apple hired Microsoft to help program the GUI. Microsoft in turn agreed not to create their own GUI OS and we all know how that turned out. But in case there are some who don't...Apple sued Microsoft over Windows and lost, and lost, and lost, and lost but never quite suing until it looked like they were going to win and so in 1997 Microsoft bought $150 Million non-voting Apple shares and promised to keep making MAC Office for at least 5 more years.

      Oh please. There have been literally hundreds of articles/books/web pages on this and you get it this wrong? Scully signed a poorly written contract with Microsoft because he was afraid they would drop Office support for the Mac. They eventually went to court when the contract was violated - since the contract was vague and poorly written the court decided that it didn't mean what Apple thought it meant. LATER, Microsoft was found to have stolen ideas (or maybe even code) from Quicktime to aid their media player software. Both sides knew that Apple might have gotten > 1 billion in damages from that, but they also knew they could draw it out for a long time. So they both agreed to a bunch of things each side wanted (Internet Explorer become default browser, cross licensing of patents, supporting Office for several years, buying a small amount of stock, etc etc.)

    17. Re:Yawn. by GonzoPhysicist · · Score: 1

      In that case you may want to try out the new line by Sirius Cybernetics. Share and Enjoy!

      --
      horror vacui
    18. Re:Yawn. by anyGould · · Score: 1

      I prefer my mobile communication devices to be surly.

      Gone are the good ole days when your satellite phone was a briefcase.

      Which is a bit of a shame - my wife's boss only gave up her brick-sized car phone when the cell companies flatly refused to support it any longer.

      Reason? That big battery and big antenna mean that she had reception in a lot of places these new small phones don't. And when you work out in random fields, that's important.

    19. Re:Yawn. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      IBM licensed MS DOS (no GUI) from Microsoft. Since Microsoft didn't have DOS at the time Bill Gates subsequently purchased QDOS from Seattle Computer Products and modified it for IBM.

      Apple and Microsoft as well as Steve Jobs and Bill Gates worked side by side in the early years. Apple contracted Microsoft for all kinds of projects including MAC OS.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    20. Re:Yawn. by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Actually, an Internal hard-drive (like the HyperDrive voided the warranty. An External Hard Drive did not void the warranty--I had a Bernoulli Box attached to my Macintosh 128K via the "high speed external bus" (ie, serial port). As long as the hard drive had it's own power supply, there was no issue. But if it used the external hard-drive connector for power, it would void it.

    21. Re:Yawn. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I think you're too young to remember this stuff.

      IBM licensed MS DOS (no GUI) from Microsoft. Since Microsoft didn't have DOS at the time Bill Gates subsequently purchased QDOS from Seattle Computer Products and modified it for IBM.

      What's DOS got to do with it? The GUI OS in question was OS/2.

      Apple and Microsoft as well as Steve Jobs and Bill Gates worked side by side in the early years. Apple contracted Microsoft for all kinds of projects including MAC OS.

      No, the software from Microsoft that Apple used was Microsoft BASIC for the Apple II. That's not GUI related. Additionally there was the Mac OS Office applications, but they were third party add ons, not part of MAC OS.

    22. Re:Yawn. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      I think you're too young to remember this stuff.

      I WISH! LOL

      Try actually reading the links in my previous post.

      Microsoft was working on MAC OS when they started development of Windows 1.0

      They didn't even start working with IBM on OS/2 until several years later.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    23. Re:Yawn. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I WISH! LOL
      Try actually reading the links in my previous post.

      I did. It's phrased in a wooly way.And is far from a historical reference. If Microsoft wrote part of Mac OS, it would merit a mention on Wikipedia for example. It doesn't.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS

      Microsoft did not work on Mac OS itself. If they did, someone would be able to say which part.

      Microsoft did do the lead development of OS/2 for IBM though. Yes it came after Windows 1. Elements of OS/2 became Windows 3.

    24. Re:Yawn. by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      Yup, me too. Had a bag/car phone in the late 90's. That thing pushed out something like 7 watts IIRC! I was getting reception in places where humans have no right to communicate. I would charge people $1/min to use said cell phone since there was absolutely no wired or cellular service that could be used in that area.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    25. Re:Yawn. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      OK, I respect your right to be wrong.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    26. Re:Yawn. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      We both know I'm right.

  4. Facepalm by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I like my Apple products, but this endless pissing match between them and Samsung doesn't endear them to me.

    1. Re:Facepalm by Truedat · · Score: 3, Informative

      I like my Apple products, but this endless pissing match between them and Samsung doesn't endear them to me.

      The alternative is that they and similar companies silently cooperate with each other with practices like price fixing, cross licensing of patents and behaviour befitting a cartel.

      So on balance I prefer it when these companies engage in a fight to the death, no one else is powerful enough to keep them honest.

    2. Re:Facepalm by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. The alternative is that they win the market BY BUILDING A BETTER PRODUCT.

      You're the perfect example of what's wrong with the current state of corrupt corporate culture. Actually competing on merit is something that isn't even considered.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Facepalm by iapetus · · Score: 2

      I'd prefer them to fight to the death on the quality of their products, not shitty overstretched patents that don't do the end user any good.

      Apple, however, have clearly decided they're not capable of doing that any more.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    4. Re:Facepalm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >> No. The alternative is that they win the market BY BUILDING A BETTER PRODUCT.

      Uh.. Have you seen Apple's sales figures? They've done exactly that. What, you think these lawsuits have had any effect on their market share?

    5. Re:Facepalm by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The alternative is that they and similar companies silently cooperate with each other with practices like price fixing, cross licensing of patents and behaviour befitting a cartel.

      Cross-licensing of patents is actually a good thing, and something everybody in the cell phone market (except Qualcomm) was already doing for decades before Apple decided to enter the market. Price fixing, bad. But using ridiculous patents like "sliding an image to unlock the screen" is worse. They want to drive the competition out of business, and when they realized that they can't do that on the actual merit of their product, they have decided to resort to litigation. When they finally do establish the monopoly they seem to want, gods help us all.

      The amusing part of it is that Samsung has a very large number of patents they can bring to bear against Apple, if they really wanted to go for a full on trade war. Samsung is trying to cooperate with them, but when they finally do realize what Apple's game is... how long do you suppose Apple could last if Samsung and LG decided to stop selling them LCD's? For anything, including their desktop and laptop computers. You do realize there's only two companies producing anything approaching a significant number of LCD panels in the world today, and that everybody else is just reselling either a Samsung or an LG panel?

    6. Re:Facepalm by Truedat · · Score: 1

      You're the perfect example of what's wrong with the current state of corrupt corporate culture. Actually competing on merit is something that isn't even considered.

      Sorry to set such a bad example ;) my comment was merely restricted to the matter of patents. Of course I have an opinion on competing on merit, but I won't offer it here - that would be a completely different point to the one I am making.

      Which is the comparison of cross patent agreements vs litigation. I would be most interested in hearing your take on _that_ point.

    7. Re:Facepalm by xaxa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cross-licensing of patents is actually a good thing

      I disagree -- it's fine for the large companies, but it blocks out small, perhaps more innovative companies.

    8. Re:Facepalm by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What, you think these lawsuits have had any effect on their market share?

      Uh... yes? Considering that the entire purpose of these lawsuits is to keep the competition off the fucking market in the first place, I'd say that's a pretty sane conclusion to reach.

    9. Re:Facepalm by Truedat · · Score: 1

      Cross-licensing of patents is actually a good thing, and something everybody in the cell phone market (except Qualcomm) was already doing for decades before Apple decided to enter the market. Price fixing, bad. But using ridiculous patents like "sliding an image to unlock the screen" is worse.

      It's such a contentious issue that before I type any more I want to be clear that I am entirely against patents in their current form. So I'm comparing two evils here since I haven't seen any evidence that convinces me that cross licensing is a "good thing".

      So lets use your example of the slide to unlock feature that we both agree is a stupid patent. Would it be better for the giants to get together on this and lock it up for themselves with a cosy agreement? Maybe my argument is a little too simplistic and if so point out the error of my ways!

    10. Re:Facepalm by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're the perfect example of what's wrong with the current state of corrupt corporate culture. Actually competing on merit is something that isn't even considered.

      More to the point, I don't think it's even possible.

      Between all of the players, damned near everything is patented. And anybody who owns a patent (no matter how absurd) wants everyone else to pay them crazy licensing fees (Microsoft gets paid something like $5 for every Android device), and sues to keep you out of the market if you don't.

      Sadly, it seems like innovation has taken a back seat to lawyers, and it doesn't seem to be showing any signs of getting better.

      If you designed a better product, unless you were already a company with deep pockets, there's simply no way you could bring it to market.

      I blame the patent system more than I do the players -- it's been set up in such a way as to encourage lawsuits more than creating actual products. And, since we're talking about markets in the billions, I doubt companies can afford to purely compete on the merit of their products.

      Since the USPTO has now changed it to "first to file" instead of considering prior art, it's only going to make this worse. Pretty much every company is going to have to try to patent the most trivial ideas in order to give themselves something to fight back with. Because they no longer care if you've taken someone else's idea ... only that you filed first.

      If patents are still filling their role of fostering innovation, it's sure as hell hard to see it.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    11. Re:Facepalm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Apple, however, have clearly decided they're not capable of doing that any more.

      That's true. The Apple II was a long, long time ago.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Facepalm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since the USPTO has now changed it to "first to file" instead of considering prior art

      You overestimate the importance of this change. Prior art is still considered. Or at least, it is supposed to be. First to file determines the winner if there are two people seeking patents for the same invention. It doesn't mean you get a patent on a twenty year old technique that no one bothered to file a patent on.

    13. Re:Facepalm by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      No. The alternative is that they win the market BY BUILDING A BETTER PRODUCT.

      One could argue that what's the use in building a better product if someone else can come along and copy what you did and sell it for less?

      Building a better product isn't cheap.

    14. Re:Facepalm by Necroman · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think you should read up what the First To File change actually has to do with. Prior Art is still considered. If I develop and ship a product, then Company B comes around and patents something already in my product (that I didn't patent), their patent can be invalidated by my product as prior art.

      What this really is supposed to "fix" is 2 companies that develop the same tech around the same time and file for patents around the same time (lets say within a year of one another), but before either has gone to market. In the system prior to "First to file", a really expensive and long lawsuit would have to occur where each side had to try and prove that they invented the patented idea first. This would involve both sides submitting design documents, emails, and any other forms of recorded communications that could be used to prove they invented it first. This was a timely and expensive battle.

      With First to File, whoever filed the patent first (assuming there is no prior art) will win, keeping lawyer fees down. This also puts us in line with the rest of the world as to how to handle similar patents filed near one another.

      --
      Its not what it is, its something else.
    15. Re:Facepalm by sjames · · Score: 1

      Samsung has plenty of honest competitors. Apple needs to either become one of those or go away.

    16. Re:Facepalm by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      I wonder what ever happened to the idea of "winning" by profitably serving the needs of your customers?

      Nowadays it seems you can't be a "winner" unless you drive all competition out of the market and establish a monopoly. The terms are all "crush" and "dominate" and "destroy". I understand that this is the natural end game of "maximize shareholder value", but in the long run, isn't it a bad thing for the human race, and for the "competition" all of the free market philosophy promotes? It seems self-defeating from an overall market perspective.

      --
      WALSTIB!
    17. Re:Facepalm by steelfood · · Score: 1

      how long do you suppose Apple could last if Samsung and LG decided to stop selling them LCD's?

      I think there are anti-trust laws and other contracts in effect here.

      There are some things you simply cannot do. It isn't to say that Samsung couldn't do certain other things that would hurt Apple's bottom line. But jacking up the prices of LCD just for Apple, irrespective of LG's involvement, is not going to fly with existing trade regulations.

      Besides which, Apple, being a US company, has the backing of the US government. That's pretty much all that needs to be said there.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    18. Re:Facepalm by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      There are some things you simply cannot do. It isn't to say that Samsung couldn't do certain other things that would hurt Apple's bottom line. But jacking up the prices of LCD just for Apple, irrespective of LG's involvement, is not going to fly with existing trade regulations.

      Who said anything about jacking up the prices? Next time Apple places an order, they simply have to reject the order, saying Samsung chooses not to do business with Apple any more. It wouldn't really hurt their bottom line all that much, as they have plenty of market from vendors like Dell, HP, Lenovo, BenQ, etc., not to mention their own direct to consumer sales. How do you suppose it would look if Apple couldn't get their high pixel density screens for the iphone and ipad any more? LG doesn't have anything that approaches the quality of the AMOLED yet, and Apple's "retina display" is simply a super AMOLED manufactured by Samsung. There's nothing in international trade laws or anti-cartel laws that dictate that you *have* to do business with them, only that if you're going to do business, you need to do it fairly.

    19. Re:Facepalm by wrook · · Score: 1

      Is it just me or does the fact that two separate entities develop the same thing, using the same technique, at roughly the same time mean that the thing is probably obvious and unpatentable?

      Get rid of first to file. Just deny the patent to both parties when that happens.

  5. Searching by voice? by nitsew · · Score: 5, Funny

    That has been going on since the advent of language. Walk into a crowded room... "HAS ANYONE SEEN MY KEYS?!?"

    Nothing new... :)

    1. Re:Searching by voice? by gzipped_tar · · Score: 2

      Maybe they got a patent on searching *by* the keys instead of searching for the keys. People these days are crazy.

      --
      Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    2. Re:Searching by voice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That has been going on since the advent of language. Walk into a crowded room... "HAS ANYONE SEEN MY KEYS?!?"

      That's a whole other can of worms. I think the term you're describing is "crowdsourcing"

    3. Re:Searching by voice? by forkfail · · Score: 2

      *hurries off to the Patent office to patent Voice Activated Crowd Sourcing*

      --
      Check your premises.
    4. Re:Searching by voice? by elashish14 · · Score: 1

      Anything can be patented if you add to the end, 'on a phone.'

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
  6. More to follow? by jamesl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This will become interesting only when Apple files suit against Microsoft (one if Apple's largest shareholders) for searching for information by voice -- a long time feature of Windows phones.

    1. Re:More to follow? by bkaul01 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even setting aside Apple having been last-to-market with voice search, don't Apple and Microsoft already have patent cross-licensing agreements in place? I'm pretty sure there are a number of Microsoft patents they'd rely on every bit as much as Microsoft might rely on theirs. Android OEMs are an easy target due to Google's lack of indemnification and apparently lax attitude towards patent issues, but I suspect Microsoft would already be in the clear with licensing even if there were valid patent issues there.

    2. Re:More to follow? by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      apple has been making phones since what 2007? samsung/windows/rim/ pretty much everyone else in the game has been making phones since the 90s? moto in the 80s? I remember a phone I had in the late 90s I could do voice search on.

      I am almost forgetting about sony being evil with every new lawsuit out of apple.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    3. Re:More to follow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS doesn't own any apple stock. Though like everyone else I bet they wish they did.

    4. Re:More to follow? by tgd · · Score: 2

      Even setting aside Apple having been last-to-market with voice search, don't Apple and Microsoft already have patent cross-licensing agreements in place? I'm pretty sure there are a number of Microsoft patents they'd rely on every bit as much as Microsoft might rely on theirs. Android OEMs are an easy target due to Google's lack of indemnification and apparently lax attitude towards patent issues, but I suspect Microsoft would already be in the clear with licensing even if there were valid patent issues there.

      Yup, which is why you don't see that happening with MSFT, and why you don't see Android licensing patents between MSFT and the companies that also sell PCs *and* have IP MSFT needs -- because they agreements are already there. Its just the newcomers that needed them. And like any patent licensing agreement, the dollar price is usually directly proportional to the IP imbalance between the two parties. I'd bet AAPL and MSFT very nearly wipe their hands in that arena.

    5. Re:More to follow? by andydread · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Android OEMs are an easy target due to Google's lack of indemnification and apparently lax attitude towards patent issues, but I suspect Microsoft would already be in the clear with licensing even if there were valid patent issues there.

      Lax attitude towards patents? SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE PATENTED. Google just happens to be on the right side of that issue. Software is authored works and hence should be protected by copyright which it already is. Just like books and movies and music. So do you have a lax attitude towards the patenting of book story concepts? Or are you in favor or patenting the concept of a love story or wars in space or whatever. Lets just say the concept of wars in space was patented so no one could write a book about wars in space regardless of the content. Would you be lax about those patents? or would you support and cheer for them? Do you write software? would you like your code to become subject to trivial patents that claim wholesale ownership of your code?

    6. Re:More to follow? by MogNuts · · Score: 1

      They won't. They know while Google may take it, MS will bury them into the ground in court. MS would probably at the end of the day prevent them from ever selling the iPhone at all. There goes 2/3 of Apple's future revenues.

      Though maybe MS or other vendors should. Apple attempt is going to threaten the very core of the mobile future and make no mistake will prevent you from getting a Google or MS or any other smartphone. They're taking away competition and choice.

    7. Re:More to follow? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Except that the same agreement that you're alluding to with your mention of being Apple's largest shareholders (which, by the way, they are not), also included a cross-licensing agreement between Apple and Microsoft, in order to make the QuickTime lawsuit go away.

      Microsoft sold those shares long ago, at a nice profit.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    8. Re:More to follow? by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      +1 insightful

    9. Re:More to follow? by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      +2 Correct.

    10. Re:More to follow? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Microsoft don't own any shares in Apple.

    11. Re:More to follow? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 1

      Software is a creative work and it is also a machine -- it does something. It transforms scene data into a Pixar movie, or translates a book into another language, or controls other machines to assemble cars, shape metal, or do anything else.

      A book or movie is a creative work, but that's all. It doesn't do anything. It isn't a machine.

      Being something and doing something are not the same thing. Being something is protected by copyright, doing something is protected by patents. Software does something and should be protected by patents.

      Lets just say the concept of wars in space was patented so no one could write a book about wars in space ... Do you write software? would you like your code to become subject to trivial patents that claim wholesale ownership of your code?

      Did you ever wonder why you can't come up with a real argument against software patents that doesn't rely on straw men?

    12. Re:More to follow? by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Lax attitude towards patents? SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE PATENTED. Google just happens to be on the right side of that issue.

      I happen to believe that marijuana should be legalized, but that doesn't mean I can expect to walk down the street smoking weed without getting stopped for it.

    13. Re:More to follow? by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Software is a creative work and it is also a machine

      maÂchine

      /mÉ(TM)ËSHÄ"n/

      Noun: An apparatus using or applying mechanical power to perform a particular task.

      Care to talk out of your ass some more?

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    14. Re:More to follow? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      +3 Plus Plus Good

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    15. Re:More to follow? by forkfail · · Score: 1

      This is by definition a medieval guild system.

      --
      Check your premises.
    16. Re:More to follow? by bkaul01 · · Score: 1

      Lax attitude towards patents? SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT BE PATENTED.

      There's a difference between what you or I may believe the law should be and what the law actually is, in practice. As it currently stands, the USPTO and the courts are interpreting the law in such a way as to allow and enforce patents on software. Even if this isn't a good, well-thought-out system and needs to be revised, it is still the law as it exists today. Google doesn't like the system and in some ways responds by just trying to pretend like it doesn't exist. Other companies, even if we don't like it, have the law on their side. So yes, I would say that Google has a lax attitude towards patents, and it's hurting Android OEMs. Whether that's a good thing or not is another issue, but it is the case.

    17. Re:More to follow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft isn't Apple's biggest shareholder anymore. They sold those shares a while back...

    18. Re:More to follow? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I know the best way to fix that.

      The patent system...

      damn, never mind.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    19. Re:More to follow? by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 1

      "Historically, a device required moving parts to classify as a machine; however, the advent of electronics technology has led to the development of devices without moving parts that many refer to as machines, such as a computer, radio, and television." --The American Heritage Dictionary, 1985

      You are living 30 years in the past if you think "machine" has to be some physical device with gears and cogs. You would rather go from straw men to arguing semantics than actually come up with an argument against software patents. Why do you think that is?

    20. Re:More to follow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an imbecile. Seriously, I'm not even going to bother to explain to you how a "computer, radio, and television" is akin to a traditional "machine" while a string of zeroes and ones are not. Feel free to live on in ignorance.

    21. Re:More to follow? by c++0xFF · · Score: 1

      First, you're wrong about software being a machine. The hardware is the machine. Software is the set of instructions telling the machine what to do.

      Second, patents do not protect only things that "do something." Machines are just one type of patent. Processes are also patentable, as are "compositions of matter" and "articles of manufacture." All four of these apply to software in one way or another (some better than others).

      Sometimes we get caught up in the distinction between hardware and software. The line separating them almost doesn't exist anymore, honestly. VHDL and Verilog give us a way to describe hardware in the same way that we describe software. Software gives us mechanisms to emulate hardware. We code instructions directly into the hardware and call it "firmware" ... but is it software or hardware? We write HD video decoding software, and then decide to do the exact same thing in hardware. What about widgets on a screen: is a "composition of matter" possible by combining widgets together in a new way, even though widgets don't really exist? At what point do the metaphors used for widgets not equate the physical objects? (Relevant example: a sliding latch to open or unlock something versus a sliding widget on a screen to perform a similar function.)

      Most people seem to agree that hardware patents are perfectly fine (as long as they're novel and non-obvious, of course). But what if you turn around and reimplement the same thing in software? Now it's not patentable?

      No, the real problem is not "software patents" or "patenting math" (what a load of hogwash, btw). It's the utter rubbish that's patented in the current system. The level of infraction itself is evidence that what's being patented is neither novel nor non-obvious. Most people around here say "well, duh, that's exactly what I would have done." And on top of it all, the patents are so broad as to include almost any solution to a problem.

    22. Re:More to follow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the difference between RAM and ROM magically makes one thing a machine and another not a machine.

      Seriously, I'm not even going to bother to explain

      Riiight. You aren't going to "bother" doing something you know you can't do, provide a non-strawman reason you are against software patents. How convenient for you.

    23. Re:More to follow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple has been making phones since what 2007? samsung/windows/rim/ pretty much everyone else in the game has been making phones since the 90s? moto in the 80s? I remember a phone I had in the late 90s I could do voice search on.

        I am almost forgetting about sony being evil with every new lawsuit out of apple.

      you still don't understand that there's no apple patent on voice search.
      Siri is not voice search, what's different (implementation) is the natural language part of it.
      Once you understand that and how patents work, you won't feel as angry.

  7. Search via voice is something..... by djsmiley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That google has had for a long time, and they had search by image. Please apple try and infringe on this. I hope google sue you into oblivion.

    --
    - http://www.milkme.co.uk
    1. Re:Search via voice is something..... by andydread · · Score: 1

      Well as sofware-patents are rubbish Google is right now to file for patents on crap like this so they can't sue Apple.

    2. Re:Search via voice is something..... by Truedat · · Score: 1

      That google has had for a long time, and they had search by image. Please apple try and infringe on this. I hope google sue you into oblivion.

      An alternative viewpoint is those companies that aren't actively engaged in patent litigation are instead involved in cross licensing agreements. BTW I find it hard to believe that there is a third category where the patent holder simply sits on their patents with no attempt to monetise them, although i have no evidence for this.

      And isn't it the case that to join in this ecosystem of patent cross licensing you have to already be a big player with a large stake to put in the game? If that's true then I would say this silent cooperation is a bigger validation of a corrupt patent system than the legal dogfights that we are witnessing.

    3. Re:Search via voice is something..... by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      That google has had for a long time, and they had search by image. Please apple try and infringe on this. I hope google sue you into oblivion.

      I guarantee you that the relevant patent does not have a claim that simply says "1. A method of searching comprising searching, via voice." The general idea may have been around (and is certainly far too abstract to be patentable), but the specific implementation identified in the patent claims may not have.

      I'm not saying that no anticipatory prior art exists (and I haven't even looked at the claims in the patent), but you have to find art for each and every element listed in the claims, not just something that does something similar. That's why, for example, the Amazon one-click patent has survived reexamination, as well as why O'Reilly never had to pay out his $10,000 bounty for anticipatory prior art. It's really not a patent on "clicking once," but a very specific implementation.

    4. Re:Search via voice is something..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like this, right?

      "1. A method of searching comprising searching, via voice, on a mobile touchscreen phone device."

    5. Re:Search via voice is something..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as far i know (see my evo 4g and galaxy S), Google does NOT have that (for a long time, as you claim).
      Google only has voice recognition with "NO NATURAL LANGUAGE" and nothing contextual.
      If you can't understand, please research (IBM papers with Watson for example).
      If you don't want to research or can't understand the difference, please refrain on saying stupid things.
      kthxbye!

  8. Apple vs Samsung. by jimpop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Apple is an outsourcing manufacturer of niche products. Samsung is a global innovator AND manufacturer.

    1. Re:Apple vs Samsung. by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      By "global innovator" do you mean "will copy designs of companies from all over the globe"? ;)

      DISCLAIMER: I love the Galaxy II S and think the whole lawsuit farce is stupid.

    2. Re:Apple vs Samsung. by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      By "global innovator" do you mean "will copy designs of companies from all over the globe"? ;)

      DISCLAIMER: I love the Galaxy II S and think the whole lawsuit farce is stupid.

      Consider what Samsung has done for LCD technology. There are many other areas where they've innovated similarly. Apple's hardware "innovation" is basically deciding how to arrange the components they buy from the people who are actually doing new science, like Samsung.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    3. Re:Apple vs Samsung. by powerlord · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree that Samsung (and the like) are doing real hardware innovation, but I think Apple's innovation is more a matter of actually creating a computer "Appliance" that people use and feel comfortable with, in the same way as a toaster over.

      Yeah, sure, if you care about the exact temperature, or want to play with convection oven circulating speeds, they won't expose all the controls you want, but if you find it all intimidating, and just want to hit a button marked "Toast" and have the oven do its job, then you might like it (especially if its "stylish").

      Not saying I agree with all the lockdown, but their modus-operandi of making things "appliance-like" while bucking most geeks feelings about it, are MUCH MUCH better aligned with what the vast majority of users want.

      Heck, my mother-in-law recently got an iPhone. For the first time since she got a cell phone (at least 15-20 years), she's now picking up voice mails, making text messages, and taking pictures (still hasn't learned how to attach them to Messages yet). Not saying she Couldn't have learned on any other phone, but she hadn't yet.

      (note: I think all of these lawsuits are ridiculous, but I also think Apple has done a fair amount of innovating in putting together a cohesive product that IS more than just the sum of its parts)

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    4. Re:Apple vs Samsung. by SiMac · · Score: 1

      Consider what Samsung has done for LCD technology. There are many other areas where they've innovated similarly. Apple's hardware "innovation" is basically deciding how to arrange the components they buy from the people who are actually doing new science, like Samsung.

      Apple does very little R&D compared to many other companies, but outside of a few areas (pharmaceuticals come to mind), private enterprises do very little R&D compared to research institutions. As a scientist, this pisses me off to some degree, but I've learned to live with it.

    5. Re:Apple vs Samsung. by mair · · Score: 1

      And your point is?

  9. "search for information by voice" - telephone? by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    "search for information by voice"?!

    Telephones do that. We had automatic, electronic voices answering questions more than five years ago.

    They were as stupid as Steve Jobs and Siri combined and either stood no Turing test at all.

    1. Re:"search for information by voice" - telephone? by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Hell, I've been using voice recognition software to enter google search terms for over a decade...

  10. Inevitable? by accessbob · · Score: 2
    As other manufacturers catch up and begin to take serious market-share from Apple, they'll fight back like the cornered animal they are.

    It's not like Apple has the vision and single-mindedness of Steve Jobs to fall back on any more.

  11. Apple, please just help stop the Patent Insanity by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the end, this only benefits lawyers and kills future innovation.

    I don't see how Apple is benefitting long-term from this mentality and cultural mindset. It's a shortterm win at best and then a death by a thousand cuts as any of it's own innovations will be dealt with the same way by other companies.

    I don't particularly blame Apple for this, but they certainly could afford a few lobbyists to turn this crap system around.

  12. Re:Missing: by kaizendojo · · Score: 0

    Buried with Jobs, along with those awesome keynotes. Damn shame, but at least my stock is still climbing.

  13. BS by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple should of never been allowed to get that patient! I would say the ability to unlock a phone through touch motion is active public domain knowledge and should fall outside the requirement for filing a patient. I think it's time for some major change in the US patient office. Technically Apple can now block EVERY single touch screen phone on the market and being developed. They have been allowed to secure a monopoly in a growing field, how on earth it that fair? Whats next is Apple going to patient toilet paper and go to court with everyone who goes to the bathroom?

    1. Re:BS by Dog-Cow · · Score: 0

      What the hell is a "patient" in this context?

      At Apple's lawyers know how to choose their words correctly.

    2. Re:BS by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Sorry I meant patent

    3. Re:BS by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      Apple should of never been allowed to get that patient! I would say the ability to unlock a phone through touch motion is active public domain knowledge and should fall outside the requirement for filing a patient. I think it's time for some major change in the US patient office. Technically Apple can now block EVERY single touch screen phone on the market and being developed. They have been allowed to secure a monopoly in a growing field, how on earth it that fair? Whats next is Apple going to patient toilet paper and go to court with everyone who goes to the bathroom?

      s/should of/should have/

      Patients are filed in the morgue, but at that point they have ceased to be... well, they have ceased to be.

      The law is not concerned with what is fair. It used to be, but lawyers make a lot more money interpreting it literally. Intent has been thrown out with the bath water.

      Also, toilet paper was patented in Italy, which is famous for it's lousy toilet paper.

    4. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to not accidentally a word.

    5. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Apple should of never been allowed to get that patient! I would say the ability to unlock a phone through touch motion is active public domain knowledge and should fall outside the requirement for filing a patient.

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant.

      They have been allowed to secure a monopoly in a growing field, how on earth it that fair?

      How would it be fair for a court to make a decision without using any actual evidence? That'd be like throwing someone in jail based on a hunch.

    6. Re:BS by DaFallus · · Score: 1

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant

      Here you go smarty-pants. Apparently the fact that it existed 2 years before Apple "invented" it is also irrelevant...

      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
    7. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There shouldn't be just prior art, having obvious to a person in the field.

      Lets say that 8 out of 10 claims have prior art, there is a good chance that the last 2 claims are obvious.

      Like add "on a mobile device" or "on the internet".

    8. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering EULAs with scroll bars you had to scroll to the bottom to unlock "Next >" button in installers and those Flash maze games like the ones that were popular for embedding screamers, The Inventive Step is adding "on the touchscreen" and changing "enables the button"/"signals the level completion" to "unlocks the phone". Billions spent in R&D!

    9. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant

      Here you go smarty-pants. Apparently the fact that it existed 2 years before Apple "invented" it is also irrelevant...

      See above. Simply pointing to a piece of prior art doesn't actually get you there. It's like pointing to the existence of a dead body to say that therefore, a defendant is guilty of murder. No, it's just the first step... Now you have to map out "each and every element in the claim" to that piece of prior art. If you can't do that, you haven't proven anything. You've just shown a dead body.

    10. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant

      Here you go smarty-pants. Apparently the fact that it existed 2 years before Apple "invented" it is also irrelevant...

      Followup on my other comment... Here's claim 1 of Apple's patent no. 8046721:

      1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:
      detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
      continuously moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained, wherein the unlock image is a graphical, interactive user-interface object with which a user interacts in order to unlock the device; and
      unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.

      Now, go to your linked video. Right off the bat, I don't see an unlock image in the predefined location. She sweeps across the screen, but there's no unlock image where she first puts her finger down. Second, since there's no unlock image there, when she sweeps her finger, there's nothing being continuously moved across the display in accordance with her finger. And finally, since there's no unlock image, then it's not unlocking when the unlock image is moved to a predefined unlock region. That video simply doesn't invalidate that claim.

      To invalidate a patent, you have to show one or more pieces of prior art that teach or suggest each and every element of the claims, not just something that does something similar or something that could be described with the same title.

    11. Re:BS by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      To invalidate a patent, you have to show one or more pieces of prior art that teach or suggest each and every element of the claims, not just something that does something similar or something that could be described with the same title.

      This is why the "obviousness" test needs to not be thrown away. If you have the graphics power to have a visual element then you do so. "...on a computer" patents are bullshit. We already had slide switches which opened doors in the real world. So if you have a phone with slide to unlock, and the use of a graphic element is obvious, it should be invalidated. IANAL but ISTR something about the obviousness test becoming bumwad, though.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 0

      To invalidate a patent, you have to show one or more pieces of prior art that teach or suggest each and every element of the claims, not just something that does something similar or something that could be described with the same title.

      This is why the "obviousness" test needs to not be thrown away. If you have the graphics power to have a visual element then you do so. "...on a computer" patents are bullshit. We already had slide switches which opened doors in the real world. So if you have a phone with slide to unlock, and the use of a graphic element is obvious, it should be invalidated. IANAL but ISTR something about the obviousness test becoming bumwad, though.

      You may be thinking of KSR v. Teleflex, where the Supreme Court actually expanded the obviousness test from the old Teaching/Suggestion/Motivation test. There still is a test for obviousness... but you still have to prove it through the existence of prior art. Otherwise, you'd get into a purely subjective hindsight-based "obviousness" test that would really just be based on the skepticism/lack thereof of the particular Examiner. And that's not a great way to do anything.

    13. Re:BS by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you have to prove obviousness through prior art, then there is no obviousness test, only a prior art test. That is not expansion, it is elimination. HTH, HAND.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:BS by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant.

      I know it won't count, but we did have physical sliding lock switches before this patent application was filed. Apple's sliding image is pretty much a straight, unimaginative computer representation of that.

    15. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about Apple having to provide evidence to show that they did 'due diligence', by searching thoroughly for prior art, before filing for the patent? If you're applying for a government granted monopoly or privilege *you* should be the one to provide evidence that you deserve it, and justify why your invention is significantly different to the existing prior art in the field.

    16. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      If you have to prove obviousness through prior art, then there is no obviousness test, only a prior art test. That is not expansion, it is elimination. HTH, HAND.

      Respectfully, I believe you have no idea what you're talking about. Prior to KSR, you still had to prove obviousness through combinations of prior art. However, that prior art needed to include an explicit teaching, suggestion, or motivation to combine with the other prior art to achieve the claimed invention. In KSR, the Supreme Court expanded that test, saying that there doesn't need to be an explicit teaching, but rather such motivations can be inferred through a variety of tests or even created retroactively when art was combined in a predictable manner to achieve a predictable result.

      As for your "there is no obviousness test, only a prior art test," you're confusing the conclusion - obviousness - and the evidence - prior art. It'd be like saying "there's no test of guilt, only a test of evidence". The factual determinations of the latter are used to support the legal determinations of the former.

      Hope this helps.

    17. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 0

      Prove it. Show us prior art that existed at the time Apple filed the patent application that does each and every element in the claims. That it's publicly known now is irrelevant.

      I know it won't count, but we did have physical sliding lock switches before this patent application was filed. Apple's sliding image is pretty much a straight, unimaginative computer representation of that.

      No, it does help... in that Apple couldn't get a patent on "a sliding lock switch." The claims at issue have several specific limitations, however, which aren't met by a physical sliding lock switch - images sliding between two locations, etc. You could potentially combine the physical sliding lock switch with other art to show obviousness, but the sliding lock switch alone doesn't show everything in the claims.

    18. Re:BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's have some fun with search and replace

      1. ... the device including a pointing device, the method comprising:
        detecting pointer placed in the first predefined location corresponding to the player image;
        continuously moving the player image in accordance with movement of the pointing device, wherein the player image is a graphical, interactive user-interface object with which a user interacts in order to win the game; and
        switching the level if the moving the player image with the pointing device results in movement of the player image from the first predefined location to a predefined end-of-game region on the display.

      This basically describes all those wonky "lead your mouse across the maze" flash games that were with us since ever (and even covers dependent claims).

      Now specify "pointing device" to be "touchscreen" and replace "player" with "unlock" and that makes for huge non-obvious innovation in Apple's patent.

      Really, how the fuck did it pass the obviousness test, when any engineer tasked with implementing unlock method for touchscreen would basically just have to choose between "touch" and "drag", with "drag" obviously less prone to accidental triggering, and then it would be just question of painting some UI over the idea.

    19. Re:BS by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      Simply pointing to a piece of prior art doesn't actually get you there. It's like pointing to the existence of a dead body to say that therefore, a defendant is guilty of murder.

      Weak analogy. If prior art existed, it does indeed prove that Apple was not the first to "invent" it.

      Nice try.

    20. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Simply pointing to a piece of prior art doesn't actually get you there. It's like pointing to the existence of a dead body to say that therefore, a defendant is guilty of murder.

      Weak analogy. If prior art existed, it does indeed prove that Apple was not the first to "invent" it.

      Nice try.

      I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the term. "Prior art" is anything in the relevant art which is prior. You may be thinking "Anticipatory prior art" which is a prior art reference that teaches each and every element of the claimed invention - i.e. anticipates the invention.

      The Apple II is prior art for a Lenovo ThinkPad. UNIVAC is prior art for both of them. IPv4 is prior art for IPv6. That doesn't mean that any of the later things weren't invented. Prior art is just "art that's prior".

      To show that a particular piece of prior art is anticipatory prior art, however, you have to show that it discloses each and every element of the claimed invention. That's the analogy - the prior art is like the body... you then have to show how it proves the conclusion.

    21. Re:BS by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      No, it does help... in that Apple couldn't get a patent on "a sliding lock switch." The claims at issue have several specific limitations, however, which aren't met by a physical sliding lock switch - images sliding between two locations, etc. You could potentially combine the physical sliding lock switch with other art to show obviousness, but the sliding lock switch alone doesn't show everything in the claims.

      No, that's exactly what they got a patent on. They got a patent on an obvious touchscreen analogue to the physical sliding lock switch that already existed on several electronics previous to this. My portable radio has one. My old MP3 player has one. Apple's claims are exactly what you'd need to do to implement an analogue for that type of switch. There's nothing original or non-obvious in them at all.

      Patent US20090241072. Claims:

      1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:

      detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
      moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained; and
      unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.

      Well, that's just a straight-up definition of what a lock switch would look like on a touch screen. It's a sliding switch that slides if you slide it. Whoopdeefuckingdo.

      2. The method of claim 1, wherein the moving comprises movement along any desired path.

      Left-to-right?

      3. The method of claim 1, wherein the moving comprises movement along a predefined channel from the first predefined location to the predefined unlock region.

      Again, this is what a physical slider switch does. It moves from a locked position, along a channel to an unlocked one.

      4. The method of claim 1, further comprising displaying visual cues to communicate a direction of movement of the unlock image required to unlock the device.

      A slider switch that looks like a slider switch will violate this. So imaginative.

      5. The method of claim 4, wherein the visual cues comprise text.

      I guess the physical ones don't usually have this (though they may in the instruction manual), but I wouldn't on-screen instructions imaginative or in any way non-obvious.

      6. The method of claim 4, wherein said visual cues comprise an arrow indicating a general direction of movement.

      Bloody hell

      7. A portable electronic device, comprising:

      a touch-sensitive display;
      memory;
      one or more processors; and
      one or more modules stored in the memory and configured for execution by the one or more processors, the one or more modules including instructions:
      to detect a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
      to move the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the detected contact while continuous contact with the touch-sensitive display is maintained; and
      to unlock the hand-held electronic device if the unlock image is moved from the first predefined location on the touch screen to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.
      8. The device of claim 7, further comprising instructions to display visual cues to communicate a direction of movement of the unlock image required to unlock the device.

      9. The device of claim 8, wherein the visual cues comprise text.

      10. The

    22. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 0

      No, it does help... in that Apple couldn't get a patent on "a sliding lock switch." The claims at issue have several specific limitations, however, which aren't met by a physical sliding lock switch - images sliding between two locations, etc. You could potentially combine the physical sliding lock switch with other art to show obviousness, but the sliding lock switch alone doesn't show everything in the claims.

      No, that's exactly what they got a patent on. They got a patent on an obvious touchscreen analogue to the physical sliding lock switch that already existed on several electronics previous to this. My portable radio has one. My old MP3 player has one. Apple's claims are exactly what you'd need to do to implement an analogue for that type of switch. There's nothing original or non-obvious in them at all.

      Not necessarily. For example, here's a different analog of a physical sliding switch.

      Secondly, take a look at the claim:

      1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:

      detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image; moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained; and unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.

      Well, that's just a straight-up definition of what a lock switch would look like on a touch screen. It's a sliding switch that slides if you slide it. Whoopdeefuckingdo.

      Last time I looked a physical sliding lock switch, it didn't have an image on it that moved when I touch it. Same thing with my portable radio, or even the sliding lock switch on an iPod. Plus, they tend to lock or unlock when a switch makes a contact, not when an image moves from one predefined location to another one.

      And, as I said, that is not a patent on "a sliding lock switch". You may describe it that way generally, but it's a patent on a very specific implementation of a method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device. The sliding lock switch on a bathroom stall, for example, does not infringe that claim. Therefore, the claim is not on "a sliding lock switch".

    23. Re:BS by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. For example, here's a different analog of a physical sliding switch.

      That's an analogue of a different type of sliding switch. And one which would be just as ridiculous to hold a patent for.

      Secondly, take a look at the claim:

      1. A method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device, the device including a touch-sensitive display, the method comprising:

      detecting a contact with the touch-sensitive display at a first predefined location corresponding to an unlock image;
      moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display in accordance with movement of the contact while continuous contact with the touch screen is maintained; and
      unlocking the hand-held electronic device if the moving the unlock image on the touch-sensitive display results in movement of the unlock image from the first predefined location to a predefined unlock region on the touch-sensitive display.

      Well, that's just a straight-up definition of what a lock switch would look like on a touch screen. It's a sliding switch that slides if you slide it. Whoopdeefuckingdo.

      Last time I looked a physical sliding lock switch, it didn't have an image on it that moved when I touch it. Same thing with my portable radio, or even the sliding lock switch on an iPod. Plus, they tend to lock or unlock when a switch makes a contact, not when an image moves from one predefined location to another one.

      That's because your physical switch is a physical switch. On a computer with a flat screenm you need to use an image if you want to graphically represent something, including a switch.

      And, as I said, that is not a patent on "a sliding lock switch". You may describe it that way generally, but it's a patent on a very specific implementation of a method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device. The sliding lock switch on a bathroom stall, for example, does not infringe that claim. Therefore, the claim is not on "a sliding lock switch".

      I already went over the claims. I didn't say it's a patent on *all* switches; it's a patent on an analogue for a specific type of physical switch. But that specific type of switch has been used on electronics for years.

    24. Re:BS by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      That's because your physical switch is a physical switch. On a computer with a flat screenm you need to use an image if you want to graphically represent something, including a switch.

      Yes, which is why the patent isn't anticipated by a physical lock switch.

      And, as I said, that is not a patent on "a sliding lock switch". You may describe it that way generally, but it's a patent on a very specific implementation of a method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device. The sliding lock switch on a bathroom stall, for example, does not infringe that claim. Therefore, the claim is not on "a sliding lock switch".

      I already went over the claims. I didn't say it's a patent on *all* switches; it's a patent on an analogue for a specific type of physical switch. But that specific type of switch has been used on electronics for years.

      I said "Apple didn't get a patent on 'a sliding lock switch'" and you immediately retorted that "yes, they had". Now, you admit that it's not a patent that covers all sliding lock switches. Okay, then I think we're finally in agreement and are done here.

    25. Re:BS by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 1

      That's because your physical switch is a physical switch. On a computer with a flat screenm you need to use an image if you want to graphically represent something, including a switch.

      Yes, which is why the patent isn't anticipated by a physical lock switch.

      But is why it ought to be, and why many of us are opposed to this type of nonsense. Attaching "on an internet device" or "on a mobile phone" or "on a touch screen" to an old idea shouldn't be enough to get a patent.

      And, as I said, that is not a patent on "a sliding lock switch". You may describe it that way generally, but it's a patent on a very specific implementation of a method of unlocking a hand-held electronic device. The sliding lock switch on a bathroom stall, for example, does not infringe that claim. Therefore, the claim is not on "a sliding lock switch".

      I already went over the claims. I didn't say it's a patent on *all* switches; it's a patent on an analogue for a specific type of physical switch. But that specific type of switch has been used on electronics for years.

      I said "Apple didn't get a patent on 'a sliding lock switch'" and you immediately retorted that "yes, they had". Now, you admit that it's not a patent that covers all sliding lock switches. Okay, then I think we're finally in agreement and are done here.

      I was obviously talking about the sliding lock switches on many pieces of electronics, which are exactly of this form. I wasn't talking about bathroom stalls. I wasn't talking about sliders.

      So you agree that they got a patent on an obvious analogue for a type of physical switch that has existed for years. Great. Like I said, this is a straight, unimaginative computer representation of that type of switch. There are no specific limitations of the claims in the patent that would not have to be met by any touch screen analogue of that type of switch.

  14. Whats this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Bonch post the exact second the article is posted thats 3 pages long on how Samsung had it coming?

    1. Re:Whats this? by andydread · · Score: 1

      Yeah I was surprised at that myself. Maybe he's busy working some other forum and blogs.

    2. Re:Whats this? by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      Yeah I was surprised at that myself. Maybe he's busy working some other forum and blogs.

      This whole article is a flame war that hasn't happened. This has been a huge disappointment to me.

      Could it be that even shills cannot defend this behavior?

    3. Re:Whats this? by forkfail · · Score: 1

      ATT capped bonch's bandwidth; he couldn't post from his iDevice:

      http://news.yahoo.com/t-customers-surprised-unlimited-data-limit-080906861.html

      --
      Check your premises.
  15. bad first sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What is up with the first sentence of TFA?

    "In a suit filed last week in San Jose, Apple said the Galaxy Nexus infringes on patents underlying features customers expect from its products."

    I think it's supposed to be saying "patents OF underling features THAT customers expect"... But this seems to imply that the reason that the patents are valid is because customers expect Apple to have the features that these patents cover, which is not a basis for a patent, and certainly not the basis for a patent infringement claim.

    I am very, very frustrated with the state of tech reporting regarding patents, and the tortured English and tortured understanding of the nature of the suit even in the very first sentence of this article just makes it worse.

    1. Re:bad first sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It looks to me like the writer thought "underlying" could be used as a verb.

    2. Re:bad first sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that underlying is being used as a verb in that sentence. And as we know, verbing weirds language.

    3. Re:bad first sentence by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Nope, that's perfectly fine grammar. You should read it as "patents that underly features that Apple customers expect from Apple products".

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    4. Re:bad first sentence by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      While it is more commonly used as an adjective, it may, with a suitable object, be used as a verb. Please refer to a good dictionary.

      --
      WALSTIB!
  16. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Microsoft is one of Apple's largest shareholders? Are you talking about the stock they bought in the 90's? Because even then, they weren't one of the largest stockholders, and they sold that stock ages ago. I bet they wish they'd kept it now.

    1. Re:Huh? by jamesl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ars technica reported, "All told, Microsoft spent a little over $151 million to acquire 18.2 million shares of Apple stock, for roughly $8.31 per share. Microsoft confirmed that it sold all of its AAPL holdings some time ago, and likely did so at a healthy profitâ"after all, AAPL has traded significantly higher than $8 for many years. But what if Microsoft had held on to that investment just a little longer?"
      http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/05/apples-stock-rise-could-have-meant-5-billion-for-microsoft.ars

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft has bought $150 million of non-voting Apple stock in 1997 (which was about a 2% share of Apple back then), but they sold it a few years later. It would be $4.5 billion worth today:
      http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/05/apples-stock-rise-could-have-meant-5-billion-for-microsoft.ars
      Microsoft was never among the largest shareholders of Apple, yet I keep hearing that BS since 15 years.

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And? That just backs-up what I said, that Microsoft isn't and wasn't one of Apple's biggest shareholders when it did own stock in it.

    4. Re:Huh? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I am willing to bet 150 million, or 2% was one of the largest.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    5. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be over 18 billion a year later with their recent hit of $500 per share...

  17. Ars puts the story in some more context... by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:Ars puts the story in some more context... by Sez+Zero · · Score: 2
      Interesting bit from FOSS Patents:

      In light of all this, my personal feelings about preliminary injunction motions have changed from "negative" to "neutral", and my view of their tactical suitability has changed from "overly ambitious" to "apparently necessary". Apple needs to get leverage, especially in the United States, but also in other jurisdictions, before it comes under too much pressure due to some companies' FRAND abuse. (Again, without the things that happened during those past eight days, I would also have reacted differently to this week's motion).

    2. Re:Ars puts the story in some more context... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I think by now we all know how neutral FOSS Patents is.

    3. Re:Ars puts the story in some more context... by Guppy · · Score: 2

      In light of all this, my personal feelings about preliminary injunction motions have changed from "negative" to "neutral", and my view of their tactical suitability has changed from "overly ambitious" to "apparently necessary". Apple needs to get leverage, especially in the United States, but also in other jurisdictions, before it comes under too much pressure due to some companies' FRAND abuse.

      Thing is, if Apple successfully manages to fend off FRAND abuse while enforcing it's own patents, we end up with a very perverted situation -- the more frivolous a patent is, the more it's worth -- because "rounded corner" patents are free of mandatory licensing requirements, while fundamental technology patents have their value capped.

    4. Re:Ars puts the story in some more context... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at who wrote it. He's a i fanboy who's posts have always never sided with anyone else.

      Why are people still linking to him thinking this isn't heavily weighted to one side? I mean, nobody was filing injunctions with each other -- they were all willing to sit down for even years to negotiate licensing fees. Injunctions only started flying when just one company filed for preliminary injunctions.

      I don't understand his "apparently necessary": Motorola's injunction on FRAND patents was *AFTER* conviction (straight up guilty) -- it was not preliminary. APL WAS FOUND GUILTY -- not "We at [company] *THINK* [company being sued] is violating and we want an injunction NOW NOW NOW" (guilty assumption). The German courts did NOT find Moto's actions as "abusive"; Motorola deserved it's licensing fees. You think a multibillion dollar companies' lawyers wouldn't bring up 3rd party licensing?

  18. HAL ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HAL 9000 ?

  19. Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by icebraining · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Slide-to-unlock patent in question: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7657849.PN.&OS=PN/7657849&RS=PN/7657849

    It's important to mention that a Dutch court where Apple tried to claim infrigement on the same patent has already ruled it as invalid, after Samsung presented the Neonode N1m as prior art.

    1. Re:Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 2

      Are you sure that it was this patent that was ruled invalid? The patent that you've linked to seems to describe the use of a visual metaphor to implement the slide-to-unlock feature (like this one: http://css-tricks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/slidetounlock.png). The Neonode is similar, but doesn't have that - see this video review from 4 mins in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-KS2kfIr0.

    2. Re:Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Well, heck - Star Trek TNG came out in 1987, and their control panels had slide to unlock and reconfigurable virtual displays.

      Gene Roddenberry's estate ought to be suing Apple.

      --
      Check your premises.
    3. Re:Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      The Dutch judge concluded that the Neonode N1m already implemented the entirety of Apple's claimed invention with only one difference remaining: Apple's slide-to-unlock patent also claims an unlock image that moves along with the finger as the sliding gesture is performed. But that difference didn't convince the judge that Apple was entitled to a patent. He said that the use of an unlock image was "obvious" (in Dutch he said it was "lying on the hand" in terms of "not far to seek").

      (...)

      Looking at what was already there before Apple's December 2005 patent application, the judge concluded that what Apple's patent claims is "not inventive", in other words, too trivial to be worthy of patent protection.

      http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/dutch-judge-considers-apples-slide-to.html

    4. Re:Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Cheers for that. Seems fair enough really. Whether the US courts will follow suit...

    5. Re:Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try CA? by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      "Didn't ork in the Netherlands, let's try [hobbets] in CA"
      FTFY
      Yeah, it just might do; California is somewhat like the Shyre...

  20. I'll say it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Hey Apple, Fuck You!

    Not a valid legal argument, but it's the patent system. Not sure any of it is valid.

    1. Re:I'll say it! by s0litaire · · Score: 3, Funny
      --
      Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
    2. Re:I'll say it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well...at least he didn't say "bugger off!".

  21. They can't stop the insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Mod me down to a Higgs Boson, but Apple's lawyers have advised them as to a simple truth: If you don't zealously defend your intellectual property, you lose it. The system is hopelessly broken and needs to be fixed by the world's governments.

    1. Re:They can't stop the insanity by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most of the property they're "defending" is not really theirs.

    2. Re:They can't stop the insanity by Grygus · · Score: 1

      This isn't how patents work. You are confusing them with trademark law.

    3. Re:They can't stop the insanity by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      In what way? If they have a patent on it then, legally, it's theirs whether we like it or not (I do not like it, but such is life).

      If it was someone else's then why not patent it? Even if you don't agree with the concept of Intellectual Property then simply work against the system by patenting your designs and releasing them into the wild so that no one else can monopolise them.

    4. Re:They can't stop the insanity by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      A key concept in patent law is that you cannot patent an idea, only its implementation. Apple has taken that and thrown it out the window. -Adam

    5. Re:They can't stop the insanity by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1
      You're obviously not a lawyer. I'm not either, but I at least know a bogus claim when I see one:

      If you don't zealously defend your intellectual property, you lose it.

      This is only true for trademarks, which is only one of the many types of protected intellectual property. Patents aren't subject to the same set of rules.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
  22. I wanna feel the heat with somebody... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Memorable quotes for
    Looker (1981)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]

    "John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power. "

    "The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
    -- Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]

    "It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man.'' -- Mel Gibson (from an interview)

    "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, CIA Director

    George Carlin:

    "The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

    But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

    You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and yo

  23. Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by andydread · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    This is purely anticompetitive on Apple's part. What is so despicable is that Apple relies on the IP of others. They built their current business on the backs of BSD developers/open source software. Those same developers are now at risk from getting SUED by apple over software patents. The hypocrisy of this company is astounding. They are trying to remove open source from the marketplace. They want to own all code. Its pathetic really. You write some code on your computer that is completely different from anything Apple has written. Your code becomes successful then here comes Apple trying to sue you out of the marketplace. Its incredible despicable and wholly egregious. Will I ever recommend another Apple product after seeing these practices? NO. I fully expect them to sue ANY linux distribution if it ever gets any decent marketshare. Both Microsoft and Apple HATE open source and this is their way to kill it. Will it work? who knows.

    1. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow. What a nicely incoherent collection of rambling.

      Patents may be "anti-competitive", but that's exactly what they are supposed to be! Thanks for the non sequitur.

      It is not despicable that Apple relies (uses) the IP of others. No one creates in a vacuum. They publish the source code for all the Open Source code they use; even the BSD code. They do not (knowingly) violate software licenses. They purchased CUPS, and yet they still make their changes public. They are doing absolutely nothing to remove OS from the marketplace. Your ramblings about Apple's software strategy is completely nonsensical, and is not based in reality.

      There is nothing what-so-ever to recommend about your post other than that it's a great essay for the entrance exam of your nearest Bigots-Are-Us club.

    2. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2

      Except that all of the mentioned patents are bull**** it is even worse that Android had voice search 1-2 years before Apple. Same goes for slide to unlock, a dutch court just threw apple out of the court after Samsung showed prior art regarding slide to unlock. What apple here simply does is landgrabbing and then suing people left and right and sometimes even people who have contracts with the original landowners.

    3. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by Tsingi · · Score: 1

      ...Both Microsoft and Apple HATE open source and this is their way to kill it. Will it work? who knows.

      You can't kill open source. Not without wholesale censorship at least.

      You can kill OSS business models though.

    4. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one said they were suing over patenting voice search. Voice search as a whole, and the method that siri uses to search the web are two TOTALLY different things and Apple is suing on the later. And the slide to unlock patent was only thrown out because of a technicality where if a patent might be invalidated it cant be used in court. German courts refused to throw out the same lawsuit as they felt there was little belief the patent would be invalidated

      And actually based on this weekends surprise it seems you have your last statement reversed, as it came to light a lot of Apples lawsuits have been in fact defensive due to Motorola and Samsung trying to extort licensing fees far in excess of the legally allowed amount, which prompted much of these lawsuits to begin with.

    5. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're dumb but you think you're smart. Congratulations.

    6. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patents are not to discourage competition, they are to protect innovation. By virtue of protection they encourage taking risks. However, patent trolling.g is completely aside from the intended use and may in effect discourage competition, hence the paradox.

    7. Re:Apple is anticompetitive at its core. by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      You can't kill open source. Not without wholesale censorship at least.

      You can kill OSS business models though.

      You cannot kill that which is already dead.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  24. GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by wjcofkc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am long time apple user. I love their OS, their software, and they way they implement those things on elegant hardware. I will probably always be a mac (and linux) user. (disclaimer: I use an android).

    But all I can say anymore to mainly apple and a lesser extent other manufactures is:

    Give me a fucking break already! Aim for cooperation and interoperability. Those two things would benefit end users on both sides more than spending billions on squabbling! All of these endless back and forth lawsuits is ruining both the mac and android experience for me. I know I'm kinda rambling but I'm getting to a tipping point. Looking forward to WebOS this September.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by broseidon · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. I was actually curious to see how people who prefer Apple are reacting to the overwhelming amount of lawsuits being filed, as I'm typically vendor neutral and just buy whatever suits my needs/wants. It's relieving to see all types of users getting annoyed by this.

    2. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      All of these endless back and forth lawsuits

      That makes it sound like both sides are to blame, which is far from the truth. Apple was hammering Android makers with bogus lawsuits long before Android makers even started to defend themselves.

      This is 100% Apple's fault. Make no mistake about that. You cannot blame for mugging victim for trying to fight back against the mugger. And Apple is the mugger, you can be sure of that.

    3. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you - I've jumped ship.

      I bought my first PC a month ago and have been using Android since last Autumn. The MacBook air I bought a year and a half ago will probably be my last Mac.

      Of course the "you need to have an Apple ID to install Lion" helped quite a bit.

    4. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Yeah, having your stuff stolen is being mugged.

      Oh wait, you're saying Apple having its stuff taken by Samsung is *Apple* as the mugger. Right.

      The whole thing is a farce, but I don't think anyone is forgetting that Samsung essentially made an iPhone 3G and slapped a Samsung badge on it. Every (third party, unaffiliated with Apple) reviewer mentioned that it was uncomfortably similar.

      Then suddenly it seems like Apple hasn't licenced certain GSM patents.... how .... coincidental!

      DISCLAIMER: The lawsuit farce is just getting silly, and software patents are getting ridiculous.

    5. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I don't understand is why you care. Is it your billions they are spending? No, not like they would charge you less for the phone if they weren't spending this money on lawsuits.
      So why do you care what happens between 2 giant companies? Let them sue each other. They'll figure it out. Doesn't affect me as a user in the slightest.

    6. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      DISCLAIMER: The lawsuit farce is just getting silly, and software patents are getting ridiculous.

      Translation: "I'm not trolling guys! Honest!"

      Let me making it simple for you. STOP TROLLING.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    7. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, you have to add the disclaimers or people attempt to put words in your mouth.

      For example, if you talk about the iPod or iTunes in any capacity unless you specifically note that you are aware that Apple did not "invent" the mp3 player or downloading music from the internet then someone goes off on a big rant about it.

      It just helps to set out some nice, clear statements of intent when it comes to Apple threads since half the slashdot population can't discuss the subject without frothing, raging and telling lies.

      How am I trolling in my original comment (note that disagreeing with you is not trolling)? I was certainly a bit flippant and a little sarcastic, but I'm not formally debating here.

      But I guess I forget myself - how does it work on slashdot now? Oh yes, "You said something negative about Apple! You're a paid shill for Google!"

    8. Re:GIMME A BREAK ALREADY! by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      Let them sue each other. They'll figure it out. Doesn't affect me as a user in the slightest.

      Sure about that? If you live in CA it might mean that you will not be able to buy an Apple competitor. Even in don't live in CA, who know where Apple will file a lawsuit next? Especially if Apple wins.

  25. prior art... also obvious. by mark-t · · Score: 2

    "Search for information by voice"? Prior art: 411

    Not to mention, of course, that the concept of making any sort of vocal request and having it acknowledged and responded to in a comprehensible fashion is entirely obvious, even if the exact implementation of how to get a computer to do it is not.

    1. Re:prior art... also obvious. by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      ...even if the exact implementation of how to get a computer to do it is not.

      That's exactly what would make it patentable. Patents (used to) protect specific implementations of an idea, not the idea itself.

      Modern patent law and software patents are a whole 'nother question.

    2. Re:prior art... also obvious. by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      I'm not having a pop, because the linked article is poor and the summary worse, but it's not that simple. I believe this is the patent that is referred to and it's not even talking about voice, it's related to the search aspect of Siri: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8086604.PN.&OS=PN/8086604&RS=PN/8086604

    3. Re:prior art... also obvious. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that does not appear to be what they are claiming to have patented. What I took from the article is that they appeared to be claiming ownership on the very idea of being able to have a computer perform functions at the vocal request of an individual while using natural language, and not special commands.

      Finally, of course, the implementation of getting a computer to do a particular task is software, which is supposed to be covered by copyright.

    4. Re:prior art... also obvious. by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that does not appear to be what they are claiming to have patented. What I took from the article is that they appeared to be claiming ownership on the very idea of being able to have a computer perform functions at the vocal request of an individual while using natural language, and not special commands.

      Well, if you read the patent that I'd linked to below, you'd realise that isn't the case. I'm now certain that this is the patent under discussion - how on earth the FTA concluded it was patenting voice commands, I'll never know.

  26. As the saying goes... by s0litaire · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...
    If you can't innovate
    litigate!

    --
    Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
  27. Poor kitten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A kitten dies every time Apple sues Samsung!

    1. Re:Poor kitten by Skapare · · Score: 1

      A kitten is tortured to death every time a big corporation gets a patent on anything obvious to the world of geek culture.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  28. Remember a Time... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

    ... When tech companies actually sold products consumers wanted, instead of suing each other over the common features of said products?

    Pepperidge Farm remembers.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Remember a Time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple seems quite capable of both based on last quarter's (and the past few year's) profits.

    2. Re:Remember a Time... by alen · · Score: 1

      the way it worked in the past is the US pioneers some new tech and the asians "steal" it with cheap copies, patent theft or idiocy on the part of US corporate management. back in the 80's by the time US companies won patent battles for consumer electronics they lost the market

      apple, MS and google learned from the past. i like it that a US company rules consumer electronics and is keeping the asians from stealing their market

    3. Re:Remember a Time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What state is Foxconn located in?

    4. Re:Remember a Time... by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Rules it, despite having lower market share?

      Interesting definition of "rules"

  29. Re:Missing: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and the turtle necks, dont forget the poor turtle necks.

  30. Apple is in the right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We may not completely understand Apples position.
    Apple is a great company and they provide quality products.
    I'm OK with the phone in my hand being a product of slaves. Successful nations and people groups (ie. companies) have been using cheap human labor for a very long time. How else do you expect companies to make a profit.
    If apple is filing a claim then they have a good reason, after all they invented the smart phone, so everything it could possibly do is copyright by them.

    1. Re:Apple is in the right... by forkfail · · Score: 1

      See - the sad thing is, I honestly can't decide if this is a troll post or what someone actually believes.

      --
      Check your premises.
  31. I spoke too soon by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is what happens when I dont read my morning "paper" before I post. Looks like sony is still king - http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/sony_music_jacks_price_of_whitney_houston_music_immediately_following_her_death

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    1. Re:I spoke too soon by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      How is that evil?

      There's likely going to be a lot ore radio play of Whiney Houston music than usual. There's likely going to be a lot more mention of her in the general media. That will likey result in increased demand for her music, for a short time.

      The obvious thing to do when that's likely to happen it to increase the price. That seems like normal rational behaviour rather than evilness.

      If you happen to be selling your car and there's some media attention pointing our how wonderful that year and model of car happens to be. Are you evil if you think that maybe it's worth more than you first thought and you increase your asking price?

      Of course Sony does enough bad things without needing to count this one...

    2. Re:I spoke too soon by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      If we were talking CDs and DVDs, I wouldnt disagree with you, supply and demand. but we are talking about Itunes, there is unlimited supply, therefore it is simply pure greed to increase the prices on digital downloads,

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    3. Re:I spoke too soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you happen to be selling your car and there's some media attention pointing our how wonderful that year and model of car happens to be. Are you evil if you think that maybe it's worth more than you first thought and you increase your asking price?

      Not the same thing. Good PR for your particular car that increases it's value isn't the same thing as exploiting someones death to make a profit. You might argue an artists death is unintentional PR but it doesn't make it any less sleazy.

      Sony is flat out exploiting her death, how is that not evil?

    4. Re:I spoke too soon by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So they should charge $0 then? Why is the previous price any less "evil" from a supply and demand view than the increased one?

    5. Re:I spoke too soon by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Again, how is that evil?

      They sell her music in order to make a profit, that's a given. There's likely going to be increased interest in that music for a short time.

      They could raise the price in expectation that people will pay a little more in the short term. They could lower the price in the expectation that the increased exposure will be generating more potential customers who might buy it if it's cheap enough. They could leave it the same and just bank the increased demand at the current price.

      How are any of those options more "evil" than any others? It's all about making money - that's why they sell the music in the first place. Sleazy isn't a symonym for evil and hence isn't a factor.

      Sure they could also make it free for a week as a tribute. That would be a nice thing to do. But surely not doing that isn't evil?

    6. Re:I spoke too soon by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      simple. The supply does not get lower due to more people downloading the music. By artificially raising the price of the songs simply because she is dead is evil.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    7. Re:I spoke too soon by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wow, you have to have javascript to see content that digg has encapsulated? Fuck digg, and fuck the horse it rode in here on.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:I spoke too soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is that evil?

      Profiteering from human death is generally considered evil behavior.

      (note that's "profiteering", not "profiting". It's considered acceptable for undertakers, coroners, florists, etc to profit from human death.)

    9. Re:I spoke too soon by Solandri · · Score: 2

      Direct link which bypasses the digg encapsulation (which doesn't work with noscript):
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/feb/13/whitney-houston-album-price

    10. Re:I spoke too soon by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      Again, how is that evil?

      They sell her music in order to make a profit, that's a given. There's likely going to be increased interest in that music for a short time.

      They could raise the price in expectation that people will pay a little more in the short term. They could lower the price in the expectation that the increased exposure will be generating more potential customers who might buy it if it's cheap enough. They could leave it the same and just bank the increased demand at the current price.

      How are any of those options more "evil" than any others? It's all about making money - that's why they sell the music in the first place. Sleazy isn't a symonym for evil and hence isn't a factor.

      Sure they could also make it free for a week as a tribute. That would be a nice thing to do. But surely not doing that isn't evil?

      I would say that trying to profit off the pain and suffering of others is evil. It creates a moral hazard. Record labels will be incentivized to murder their artists to boost profit.

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
    11. Re:I spoke too soon by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So selling medicine must be really bad. Profiting when people get sick.

      And what about funeral directors? In the incentive to murder people in order to make a buck stakes.

    12. Re:I spoke too soon by twistofsin · · Score: 1

      It's tasteless, but not evil. Make the money while you can, it's not going to be available the second time she dies. This isn't exactly a life sustaining commodity, or very expensive even with higher prices.

    13. Re:I spoke too soon by DM9290 · · Score: 1

      So selling medicine must be really bad. Profiting when people get sick.

      And what about funeral directors? In the incentive to murder people in order to make a buck stakes.

      I disagree.

      Selling medicine for your usual price is not exploiting a misfortune. The customer might be only slightly ill, or might be deathly ill. It does not normally have any bearing on the price. a generic drug sold to a person who is dying could cost 50 cents. Whereas totally elective procedures such as laser hair removal cost thousands of dollars.

      If the supplier took note of the fact that you're going to die if you don't get your medicine right now and jacked up the dispensing fee to exploit your vulnerability then yes, this would be EVIL.

      Raising the price of medicine to exploit a disaster or local outbreak would be bad (and in particular where there is no actual shortage, but you are simply withholding the supply for more money). In fact it would be illegal in many areas.

      However, yes, to a certain extent many people do consider the for profit selling of medicine to be immoral, and they do see a moral hazard, and that is why those people support socialized universal healthcare.

      funeral directors who raise their prices in response to the the degree which the death was unexpected would be exploiting misfortune. Funeral directors who charge their usual fixed rates at the normal market rates, are simply providing a service. Someone has to do it.

      The price of Whitney's music didn't increase because of a shortage of bandwidth. There was no actual market justification for it. It was an attempt to exploit the free advertising caused by her death. It is exploiting her misfortune for personal gain.

      --
      No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
  32. It has pretty much stopped me from buying Apple by Shivetya · · Score: 2

    I don't what it will take for you, but Apple has no allure for me anymore. I have had their products for many years and still have three in house, but I am done with buying their products going forward.

    Fortunately Samsung just announced a Android 4 tablet coming in March, seven inch form factor which the Kindle Fire convinced we was best, so I may just be able to ditch that iPad.

    This certainly ain't a property of Apple post Steve, they started down this road before he died and after reading quotes attributed to him I am quite sure this direction came from him too.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:It has pretty much stopped me from buying Apple by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      No, Apple has allure because Apple produces some beautiful, and high quality, products.

      But, Apple products are not that great. I can easily live without them.

      In the past, I bought some ipods, and a few other Apple items. But I will not buy from Apple anymore.

      Apple is not "protecting their IP." Apple is scamming the sytem with junk patents, and bogus lawsuits.

    2. Re:It has pretty much stopped me from buying Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaaaargh, comma, splices, suck, salty, goats, balls.

    3. Re:It has pretty much stopped me from buying Apple by SirJorgelOfBorgel · · Score: 1

      Commendable as I find your attitude, I must warn you that you will not be happy with the 7" that was just announced if you were a fan of the iPad. The 7" that was announced today is budget model set to compete with Asus' 7" budget tablet coming out soon. It is pretty (damn) low on the specside of things.

      The 7" form factor is however very awesome. Personally I prefer it over the 10" form factor. If you want smooth and fast, you should go for the 7.7" (P6800/P6810 model), which will be more expensive, but is also 2-3 times as fast and has a Super AMOLED Plus screen (once you have had one, you will never want a non-AMOLED screen, IPS be damned). It is currently being sold with Android 3.2 on it, but is said to receive the Android 4.0 update before April 1. It's definitely the best Android tablet I have ever used.

      If you think you may reconsider and go for a 10", be sure to wait for the successor of the current Samsung 10", because that one is becoming signifcantly outdated. Said successor is expected to be announced shortly. Alternatively, get the Asus Transformer Prime, which is the fastest 10" Android tablet currently.

      (I make Android software for a living, I have a lot of these things lying around - I'm not just making stuff up)

      Well, that was a lot more than I wanted to say. It's just that I've seen a lot of comments today regarding people and their iPads (or other tablets) and replacing said tablet with the 7" Samsung announced today. For most people who already own a tablet, this will not be an upgrade. At the same time, it appears nobody knows about the spectacular 7.7" that is already in stores today and runs circles around the 7".

  33. Hmmm Can Apple sue Bell? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    Can Apple sue Bell laboratories- the earliest phones were voice operated for searches.

    "Operator, can you connect me to Oswaldina McWeaney in Memphis Tennessee please?"

    - incidentally I wonder if any operator was named Siri?

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  34. Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please do not blame Samsung, that is just not fair. If a guy gets mugged in an ally, and tries to fight back, do you blame the victim or the mugger? Apple is the mugger.

    1. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 0, Troll

      So taking someone to court because they copied your design is "mugging"? (talking about the original lawsuit, not this one)

      Interesting.

      DISCLAIMER: I think patent lawsuits are stupid.

    2. Re:Blame Apple 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "your design"? - bollocks. A design which was obvious, and hence had been used widely for years for various devices such as LCD picture frames (and other, not very successful, tablets).
      Oh, but you're the first one to sell lots of product, so you should get the patent even if you invented/designed jack shit.

    3. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 0

      They didn't just "make a picture frame-a-like", they copied the whole design.

      There are *plenty* of black, rounded rectangular phones out there that don't ape the iPhone exactly (and that are not being sued over). Samsung just went for the direct rip off. So much so that everyone who reviewed the thing mentioned it.

    4. Re:Blame Apple 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're missing the point. The "rounded rectangle design" that "copies" apple was created as a picture frame by Samsung in 2006!

      http://lawpundit.blogspot.com/2011/08/samsung-digital-picture-frame-2006-is.html

      Who's copying who, here?

    5. Re:Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      So taking someone to court because they copied your design is "mugging"? (talking about the original lawsuit, not this one)

      Apple is not protecting their design. Apple is using junk patents to prevent fair competition. We both know it, why lie?

      DISCLAIMER: I think patent lawsuits are stupid.

      Yeah, unless it's Apple "protecting" their junk patents. Then you can't cheer loud enough. What a hypocrite.

    6. Re:Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 2

      I can tell the difference between a galaxy, and an ipad, with my eyes closed. I can do it easily, in just a couple of seconds. With my eyes open, I can tell the difference in a fraction of a second.

      Apple is not just suing Samsung. Apple is suing everybody they can, with their junk patents. Apple is focusing on Samsung because Apple is most afraid of Samsung.

      Of course the samsung has a basic tablet design, what you would expect a tablet to look like? A tire irion?

    7. Re:Blame Apple 100% by makomk · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, Apple is actually suing every major manufacturer of smartphones at this point, many of them for exactly the same thing as they're suing Samsung over.

    8. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      Who says this is about a picture frame shape?

      Every time this is brought up it is dismissed (likely due to wilful ignorance rather than actual stupidity - I do not believe those actively bashing Apple are actually genuinely stupid) as "lolz they sued over a rounded rectangle" when really they did nothing of the sort. That design element is one of many elements (none of which are unique to one particular vendor) that come together to make a product.

      There are myriad ways to make a rectangular phone with rounded corners and a big screen and not make it look exactly like an iPhone. Samsung chose instead to make their phone look uncannily like an iPhone. They didn't get sued "just" for rounded corners, but then everyone knows that, but it's fashionable to break it down to "lulz, apple claims it owns rectangles" for a quick +5 'insightful' moderation.

    9. Re:Blame Apple 100% by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's a bunch of shit. Both Apple and Samsung copied the same design — a notebook. Apple didn't invent the rounded corner. You're doing their job for them. Shouldn't shills get paid?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Blame Apple 100% by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Keep telling yourself this if it helps you sleep at night, or helps you justify your Apple purchases.

      But it's bullshit, and the rest of us know it. When it needs replacing, my MacBook Pro will not be updated with newer Apple hardware. They'll never get another penny from me.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    11. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Did you not look at the parentheses you quoted?

      I guess not.

      Can't really reply effectively if you don't comprehend my post, despite actually quoting the relevant section.

      Try again, I'm here all evening (not being paid by Apple. lolz).

    12. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      iPad? What?

      This is about the iPhone and Samsung's copy (Apple were really stretching it with the tablets - the box art and design look identical, as well as the connector and the charger etc, but the physical tablets themselves are distinct, especially when turned on).

      You will note I have been talking about the original infringement - the copy of the iPhone that everyone reviewing the thing commented on.

    13. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I knew it wouldn't take long for the "I disagree with you therefore you are a shill" argument.

      Weak.

    14. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Ah, the cutting your nose off to spite your face argument. You said it - if it helps you sleep at night.

      I mean, all those reviewers (who I *guess* could have all been paid by Apple as shills to say Samsung's phone was identical to the iPhone) could be wrong I suppose.

      I'm not talking about the ridiculous "swipe to unlock" lawsuits here, or "organising data.... on a phone!" lawsuits. I'm talking about the straight up Samsung copied the iPhone 3G suit, which did have legs. (Apple overreached considerably by bringing the tablets into it - they should have just stuck to the phones).

      I sleep perfectly well at night, as it happens. Better when I haven't been staring at Unity. What has been seen can never be unseen.

    15. Re:Blame Apple 100% by aaron552 · · Score: 1

      Which phone are you referring to? This lawsuit is to do with the software on the Galaxy Nexus, where the hardware looks quite dissimilar to the iPhone.

      --
      I had a sig once. It was lost in the great storm of '09.
    16. Re:Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      I think Apple's MO is relevant to the discussion. Apple is constantly filing junk patents, and filing bogus lawsuits. It's just the sort of company Apple is.

    17. Re:Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      I directly addressed your points. Yes, I read them, and understood them.

    18. Re:Blame Apple 100% by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's not all that uncanny. They don't look THAT much alike to me. They do look similar for the same reason all passenger vehicles look similar. Same function, same form.

      Most of the icons the fanbois claim are copied from the iPad are actually copied from much earlier common roots, and for the same reason. Because that image is part of our visual language and their meaning is what is being conveyed. When I say a stop sign means stop and is red, I don't do it to copy the DOT, I do it because that is the recognized meaning of the shape and that's what the color is called.

    19. Re:Blame Apple 100% by anonymov · · Score: 1

      Well, just based on this photo: slightly different dimensions, frontal camera, different rounding radius, different bezel profile, three front buttons instead of one, visible side buttons on iPhone and none on Samsung and Samsung logo right above the screen.

      Not included in the photo: the fact that it's not the home screen, but all apps menu, different phone profile.

      Also not included in the photo: the fact that if you get to play with both phones, you'd have to be an idiot to mistake one for another.

      So yeah, it's a complete copy of the rounded rectangular iPhone except for all the places that aren't.

    20. Re:Blame Apple 100% by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I knew it wouldn't take long for the "I disagree with you therefore you are a shill" argument.

      Uh no, English, you fail it. My argument was that neither copied the other because they both copied someone else. My assertion is that you should get paid for your spewing of bullshit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, you really didn't.

      You called me a hypocrite because I'm not either a) unfailingly 100% critical of Apple or b) unfailingly 100% positive.

      You either haven't understood my points (possible, but unlikely - I don't think you're an idiot, but that could be it), or you're being wilfully ignorant to try and win the argument by making stuff up.

    22. Re:Blame Apple 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a tool.

    23. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there are ways of doing so without breaching the copyright of other people and businesses.

      All cars don't look exactly like the Ford Mustang, but they share common features - wheels, body, engine, steering wheel, common (but often dissimilar looking) UI. If you made something that was directly copying the Mustang then Ford would be having words with you in court. All the talk on slashdot about the design lawsuit has essentially boiled down to Apple bashing because people are claiming that Apple is claiming ownership of "four wheels and an engine" as theirs when it comes to making a car, when it's simply not true.

      Samsung went with, just as one example, an icon for "phone" that looks uncannily like Apple's. Now, the choice of an icon that represents a phone (the receiver) is *not* the issue, just to be absolutely 100% crystal clear - there are many, many, many icons that use the idea of an old style telephone and/or telephone receiver, of which Apple's iOS icon is one example. Apple did not invent the idea of using this icon, nor did they invent the concept of the rounded square, nor did they invent the colour green, or using white as the face font colour - the fact that Samsung made their icon look like Apple's icon is the issue. They could have put the receiver icon at a different angle, or used a different icon with the whole 'old style' phone body too, or used a different background colour, or a different decal colour etc. Add this up across many of the icons and the way the UI is presented, and pair it with the physical design of the phone too and you end up with something that all the reviewers thought was just like the iPhone.

      In the same way that simply having a black rectangular phone with rounded corners is also not the entire issue - there are many phones like that, but as one of several other elements combined together, you end up with the iPhone 3G.

    24. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      You make assertions during an argument - one is a subset of the other, but if you want to be pedantic about it, go for it.

      So, what notebook did they "both copy"? All notebooks look alike then? Since they clearly just picked the only design there was and copied it.

    25. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      In that I'm useful to carry out a specialist task? Sure, I guess I am!

      Thanks!

    26. Re:Blame Apple 100% by anonymov · · Score: 1

      LOL, did you actually look at the photo you posted?

      Green phone is not "just one example", it's "_the_ one example", the only other icon where you could argue the similarity is Music.

      And "the way UI is presented" is the all apps menu, which is quite different from the home screen.

      Did you actually use both phones? Android is quite different from iOS, I assure you.

      It's funny how you say "elements combined together" after posting a pic where all "elements" are different, except for "simply black rectangular phone with rounded corners", phone icon and speaker slit.

    27. Re:Blame Apple 100% by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They both copied everyone else who had rounded corners, of course. Since the first time someone took the corners off a stone tablet to prevent getting jabbed in the shin, it's been a bogus idea that rounded corners are a unique design decision for anything graphics-related. Since the first door got a sliding bar it's been obvious what slide to unlock was for. "...on a computer" is crap just like "...on the internet" when it comes to a patent.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    28. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I actually have used both - and I love the current Galaxy SII (I'm considering it as a replacement for my iPhone 3G alongside the 4S when it's time for upgrading).

      I didn't actually post a picture in this comment thread, but I did in another one that is also in this story, so I know the one you mean. The phone, music and contacts icons are quite similar (although the contacts icon is missing from the iPhone in that photo for some reason), along with the launch bar and black backdrop. Like I say, I have seen and used Android phones and they don't all look like that (some also have some features that are sorely missing from iOS, in fact).

    29. Re:Blame Apple 100% by anonymov · · Score: 1

      Contacts icon are only similar in idea, "notebook with silhouette of a head", actual design style is very different.

      On a side note, Samsung's UI severely lack common style, even in the launch bar there's this out-of-place-ish messaging icon. They sure should steal the idea of style guidelines from Apple next.

    30. Re:Blame Apple 100% by sjames · · Score: 1

      BOTH phone icons look like a rip of the old Bell public phone sign, which in turn is just the receiver of an old Western Electric desk phone. If Samsung is ripping off Apple, then Apple is ripping off Bell.

      There are really only so many ways to present the thing and ALL of them rip off the Western Electric phone. (the old one you could beat an intruder to death with and still call 911 on it)Probably because we all know that is a phone. As for the angle, you mean an approximation of the angle it's held at when in use? Wow, who ever would have thought of that? (besides EVERYONE, that is)

      Added to the fact that it is the ONLY icon on in the picture that happens to look that similar, It seems like a huge stretch to me to claim a rip-off.

    31. Re:Blame Apple 100% by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      You called me a hypocrite because I'm not either a) unfailingly 100% critical of Apple or b) unfailingly 100% positive.

      Nice straw man attempt. But that is not why I called you hypocrite, and you know it. I call you a hypocrite because you posted:

      DISCLAIMER: I think patent lawsuits are stupid.

      Yet you support Apple's patent lawsuits up and down. Again hypocrisy much?

    32. Re:Blame Apple 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says this is about a picture frame shape?

      Every time this is brought up it is dismissed (likely due to wilful ignorance rather than actual stupidity - I do not believe those actively bashing Apple are actually genuinely stupid) as "lolz they sued over a rounded rectangle" when really they did nothing of the sort. That design element is one of many elements (none of which are unique to one particular vendor) that come together to make a product.

      Putting 20,000 different pinches of bullshit into a sack doesn't make it "not" a sack of shit.

    33. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      How do I suport them "up and down"?

      I supported the design patent lawsuit over the Samsung copy, but I do not support the lawsuits going after things like 'slide to unlock'.

      You're determined to froth and rage at Apple and anyone who takes a different viewpoint to you.

      You can also find something stupid and still understand it - I mean, I can fully understand why Apple is doing what it is doing. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it or think it's not a stupid thing.

      I think they have a case re: Samsung's copy, but I don't think they should have pursued it via a lawsuit. Doesn't mean I don't agree that they are in the right.

      Similarly just because I think they have a case there doesn't mean I think that all of their legal attacks have any merit, even if they are on legally-sound ground to be able to file them.

      The world is not simply black and white, but it seems nuance is lost in this thread, or any time Apple is mentioned on slashdot. It's a shame.

    34. Re:Blame Apple 100% by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I must admit that I have no idea if the original Samsung Galaxy S looked like an "iPhone copy". However, I have owned iPhone 4 and Galaxy S2, and I now own Galaxy Nexus. The last two phones have pretty much nothing in common with iPhone (any model of it), and are readily distinguished visually even without turning them on.

    35. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jrumney · · Score: 1

      There are myriad ways to make a rectangular phone with rounded corners and a big screen and not make it look exactly like an iPhone. Samsung chose instead to make their phone look uncannily like an iPhone.

      What exactly is it about this Samsung phone (and I'm not entirely clear here on which one you mean, as the design patent lawsuits I've seen so far have been about tablets) apart from being rectangular with rounded corners and having a screen that is large compared to the overall frontal area, that makes it look uncannily like an iPhone?

      A single round button? No, Samsung devices either have no visible button or a square one and a couple of capacitive buttons that only become visible when the backlight is on.

      The color black? The fact it has a speaker and microphone on it like every other phone made since 1875?

    36. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I agree the new ones don't (and the Galaxy SII is an excellent phone and a strong contender for my next phone), but the phone in question was very much an... homage, shall we say, to be generous. many reviewers commented on it, in ways that they didn't do with other flagship Android phones of the time.

    37. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I don't know - ask all the tech reviewers who mentioned it in their reviews, because there were many at the time.

      The newer ones do not (love the SII), but that one model did, and people commented - and Apple noticed.

      All the subsequent suits over silly things like sliding to unlock and storing contacts... on a phone! are nonsense, but I can't say I blame Apple for the original "you copied our design" lawsuit (although bringing in the tablets to the same suit was pushing it - they didn;t really look alike, especially when powered on).

    38. Re:Blame Apple 100% by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If Apple only took Galaxy S to court, that would be another story. But TFA is about Galaxy Nexus, and, as I recall, they also made fuss about S2. And for those they went not for design patents, even, but for patents on basic phone functionality like swipe-unlock. To me, that's ridiculous.

      (No, I don't like Motorola trying to charge for 3G, either - but at least there they might actually have something that's patent-worthy; the bad part comes from it being made into a widely accepted standard.)

    39. Re:Blame Apple 100% by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I agree with you - Apple have taken it too far, but that doesn't mean the original suit wasn't with merit.

      The whole situation is just getting ridiculous on both sides. (disclaimer: that does not mean I am trying to "shift blame away from Apple" or "make it seem like everyone is equally guilty").

  35. Trash Can Icon by Picass0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I remember when Amiga and Atari both came out with machines based on the Motorolla 68000 processer (the same as the first mac). I owned an Atari ST during that time. Apple sued Atari over the TOS desktop, specifically they were mad about the Trash Can icon (among other things).

    Then there were the emulators. Since they shared the same processor it was only a matter of time before someone wrote an emulator to let Mac run on Atari. "Gadgets by Small" was hounded by Apple's lawyers when they published Spectre 128 and Magic Sac. The ST ran 68000 Mac software with very little impact in performance.

  36. Actually... by KingSkippus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, I hope that this results in an all-out patent war between the big players. Right now, they have little incentive to pour money into lobbying Congress to change the patent system because they're all benefiting from it. As long as they all don't sue each other and only pick on little guys, why would they want to upset the status quo?

    However, if the mutual assured destruction scenario actually plays out and they all start suing the crap out of each other, only then would they finally realize that buying tens of thousands of patents as a defensive measure against getting sued is not an acceptable solution to the patent problem. Ultimately, the answer is that software/business process patents need to permanently go away. That can only happen when they stop spending so much on lawyers building, defending, and in some cases, using as weapons their patent portfolios and start actually making meaningful changes in the system.

    Yes, they'd have more competition. Yes, that means that sometimes, competitors might mercilessly steal some of your clever ideas. But it also means that instead of spending billions of dollars on lawyers, you can now redirect that money towards research and development to blow competitors away with awesome products (thus gaining brand and product loyalty) instead of trying to blow them away in a courtroom (which is nothing but a colossal waste of time and money).

    1. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope no longer because an all-out war is in fact what is happening.

    2. Re:Actually... by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      The fashion industry has no copyrights or patents, only trademarks on their designer logos, the same goes for the car industry. Just look at the lack of innovation in car and clothing design. It's absolutely stagnant! Every year they release the SAME damn car, and I'm getting REALLY tired of Zootsuits! It's gotten so bad that the two industries have agreed to help each-other out: Gucci is designing cars for Fiat! Aston Martin and Jaguar have been seen on Underoos thanks to the Disney Cars movie (though movies about fashion or cars can still be copyrighted).

      If you take software patents away just think of all the innovation that will end. All the FLOSS projects will die because they only exist to thumb their nose at the Large Proprietary software vendors while infringing their patents. Sure, it may cost less to make mobile devices, but they will lock up their secrets away from the public and never sell another phone again for fear that a reverse engineer may duplicate their software systems, or ever Create their own Firmware! Without patents, Nothing will stop people from "rooting" or "jailbreaking" their phones and all the carriers will have to charge 25 cents per text message to recoup the costs!

  37. The voice search is hilarious by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2

    given that Android has had voice search for more than two years now (introduced i think in 2.0 or so) and Winmobile had it also for 7 or more years.
    When will this patent madness finally end?

    1. Re:The voice search is hilarious by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Like I posted above, I don't think it's that simple. The summary and article don't give any sort of detail to draw the conclusions that you appear to be making. I believe this is the patent that is referred to and it's not even talking about voice, it's related to the search aspect of Siri: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=8086604.PN.&OS=PN/8086604&RS=PN/8086604 [uspto.gov]

    2. Re:The voice search is hilarious by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      So what the search itself was done in that manner way before apple brought Siri out.
      There is a video from i think 2010 or so, where the search feature was demonstrated in conjunction with the routing websearching adress book search.

    3. Re:The voice search is hilarious by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      I'm replying out of courtesy, but I don't really understand your response. In honesty, I probably don't understand the patent either - it's very complex and talks about (amongst other things) a method for determining the context and intent of a user's search query.

      "So what?" was your opener. My reply is that you've dismissed the patent's validity without understanding it. When it's been pointed out to you that the patent doesn't relate to what you were led to believe it did, you've dismissed the patent again, with no indication that you fully understand the patent application. I'd assert that, like me, you don't understand the patent and should probably be a little less dismissive.

    4. Re:The voice search is hilarious by Skapare · · Score: 1

      When will this patent madness finally end?

      When patents are actually based on the "No one would have made the effort to invent this without a patent system being in place" test.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    5. Re:The voice search is hilarious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you still don't understand that there's no apple patent on voice search.
      Siri is not voice search, what's different (implementation) is the natural language part of it and the contextual aspect.
      Once you understand that and how patents work, you'll be much happier

    6. Re:The voice search is hilarious by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Actually the voice search in google works like that, call bla bla, drive me to bla bla... just the way siri works. So google had it before Apple even filed the patent.

  38. Apple is using junk patents to abuse the system by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Apple is using Tonya Harding tactics, just like MS routinely does. Apple is abusing the system because Apple does not want to compete in a fair market.

    These junk patents, and junk lawsuits, have nothing to do with Apple defending any real IP.

    1. Re:Apple is using junk patents to abuse the system by Skater · · Score: 2

      No business wants to compete in a fair market. Who do you think starts all those "grass roots" (note quotes) movements to influence lawmakers? Recent example: I love the railroads and keep up with the news from the world of railroading, but the American Association of Railroads recently put links on Facebook and the like to the "stop larger trucks" website. They claim they're worried about safety (and given the number of recent train/truck collisions, they may be on to something), but let's face it: The railroads would love to do anything they can to make the trucking industry less profitable. And I'm sure the trucking industry does the same thing to the railroads whenever they can. This is, unfortunately, how the game is played, and it's been this way for a long time. Do you know who bought up many the streetcar companies in the 1930s-1950s so they could shut down the rail system and sell more buses? General Motors. In short, I'm not sure why Apple gets singled out for this hate - every company does this kind of thing. Hate 'em all, or hate none of them.

  39. Scaring off customers by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    I've been waiting a while for data plans to no longer cost extra (or at least minimal extra) before buying a smart phone.

    Yes, I'm going to be a late adopter- but at one point I was fairly neutral in the whole Apple/Android debate. I wasn't keen on Apple's "everything goes through us" approach- but I was aware that Apple was, at least nominally, more sound. I had planned to research heavily prior to buying- but until then, take a hands-off approach.

    I must say, whilst taking a back seat view with my pop-corn, I've been put off by apple. I was once a potential customer but their legal shenanigans have made it very unlikely (not impossible but unlikely) I would consider them when I finally do take the plunge and get a smartphone. In fact- despite previously being apple-neutral, this has put me off buying ANY of their products in the future. I don't want my hard-earned money going towards some lawsuit to squish innovation.

    I wonder if I am an "odd one out" or if I represent a larger portion of society. At what point do their legal games drive away more customers than they gain by throwing out competitors from the ring? The consumer doesn't win; Samsung doesn't win; I'm not sure Apple wins- at the end of the day there are a lot of happy lawyers but everyone else misses out.

    To be fair, just like the Foxconn scandals- Apple is not the only one to blame so I (and the public) are probably a little unfair- but Apple are the most prominent. Everyone sues everyone it seems- but Apple seems to be going "above and beyond". Is it because they are just more letigious- or because they have more resources to pay countless lawyers?

    Either way- each lawsuit makes it less likely I will buy from them- and probably puts more people in the anti-apple camp. Even if they are the best- if they turn everyone towards the "anti-apple" castra; they will eventually marginalise themselves.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  40. Bullshit. These are junk patents by walterbyrd · · Score: 0

    Apple is using junk patents, to file junk law suits, in an effort to use MS/Tonya Harding tactics against the competition.

    This is 100% Apple's fault, and 0% the fault of Android makers.

    Apple is a scummy company, just like Microsoft. That is the truth of the situation.

    1. Re:Bullshit. These are junk patents by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 2

      No offence intended, but did you submit this article just so that you could post flamebait like this?

      It's a really poor article, with very little information in it. There are many more articles on the same subject available on the 'net - I've linked to some in my other comments.

      It's an interesting subject, but your submission is pedestrian at best and your comment here is pretty worthless and adds nothing to any sort of debate or analysis that could occur on the subject.

    2. Re:Bullshit. These are junk patents by Skapare · · Score: 1

      It seems to me he posted the article because he is not so narrow minded and blinded as to prevent him from seeing what is going on with big corporate businesses stacked with lawyers, both for suing, and for churning out worthless patents on every tiny bit of technology they are making in-house where patents are not the incentive to make it in the first place.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:Bullshit. These are junk patents by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Orly? Surely the point of posting an article is to create discussion?
      How do comments like "Bullshit. These are junk patents." and "Apple is a scummy company" promote discussion? Without analysis, reasoning, justification or citation, comments like this merely stoke the inevitable flamewar.

    4. Re:Bullshit. These are junk patents by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      I call 'em as I see 'em.

      We both know these are junk patents. We have both seen Apple pull the same scam again, and again. Who are you kidding?

      Or, you really expect us to believe that Apple spent billions "inventing" rounded corners?

    5. Re:Bullshit. These are junk patents by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Who are you kidding?

      Or, you really expect us to believe that Apple spent billions "inventing" rounded corners?

      Should I respond to your straw man with an ad hominem? Nah, let's not bother tonight, eh?

  41. Apple stock is a bubble by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I am not suggesting that Apple is not now a very valuable company. It is. It has large sales of high margin products. It has a lot of cash. But its stock price is still a bubble; it is inflated by projected earnings on the apparent assumption that it will have no competition for years to come. That is probably true of a Microsoft or an IBM, but unless Apple can prevent it, smartphones are pretty much interchangeable.

    In view of the actual lifetime of a mobile phone, and the Apple cash mountain, I'd suggest a realistic valuation is between $200 and $300 billion.

    In order to maintain the appearance of invulnerability Apple must sue, sue and sue again - just like SCO - as part of the preservation of the image that no other company can (or will be allowed to) possibly compete. If it starts to lose too many patent suits, its share price will suffer, and if, post-Jobs, it has somewhat lost direction (or is up against growing technological barriers like battery life), it doesn't really have a counter.

    While the Chinese economy continues historically weak I don't thing the rulers of China will rock the boat - but at some point I suspect they will look at Apple's profits and say, in effect "Hey, we do all the work, we deserve some of that". One option would be a dramatic rise in factory gate prices. Another would be a slow rise in the currency.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Apple stock is a bubble by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1

      I don't particularly like Apple, but they have a pretty sweet business model. They own a considerable share of the smart phone market, and they have these 30% cuts on many of the revenue streams going into the apps and content sold in their walled garden. They don't even need to maintain their market share - as long as they grow at a healthy rate (and the overall smartphone market is growing, so that part looks good) they have an expanding income stream. Plus they have the opportunity to expand into other markets (smart TV etc) which would be reasonably attractive for the huge numbers of people who are already locked into Apple.

      I don't buy their products (and likely never will) but their stock looks good.

    2. Re:Apple stock is a bubble by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you can prove your faith in your assertion by showing us the put contracts you have on AAPL. What? Money not where your mouth is? STFU.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    3. Re:Apple stock is a bubble by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      For how long can the smartphone market grow the way it is? At this point in the US it seems like everybody and their 2-year-old already has a cell phone, and I think the latest news is that about half of those are already smartphones. Unless people start buying 3 smartphones apiece I'd say the US market is nearing saturation. I'm sure Europe looks similar. Now, I'm sure there are growth opportunities in places like China and Africa, but I don't see people paying $300 plus a contract to get the latest Apple fashion there.

      Other markets are of course a possibility, but those are a possibility for any company. Apple has the brand recognition that tends to get people to take notice, but I don't think they've had any product that has approached the iPhone, iTab, and iPod (which when you think of it are nearly the same product already). People don't seem to run out and buy Apple TVs just because they like their iPod...

    4. Re:Apple stock is a bubble by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1

      I don't think market saturation is anywhere near that point actually, and of course people regularly replace their phones to get the next upgraded model. Similar to the iPod- > iPhone transition as you said. I don't see that changing much for the foreseeable future. There will be new features coming (e.g. Siri which I think is crap, but which people seem to like) which will only work on newer phones. (I know that can be hacked to work on older versions, but they'll come up with other stuff - 4G for example.) It's basically the same situation as it has been for PCs for a long time. For PCs that development has reached it's end, but for smartphones it could well be another 10 or 20 years. And they control the entire ecosystem, can add things to it and get the benefit of other companies sales within that system. Some years down the road they may miss being part of the next big thing, they could be taken over by accountants again who'll ruin the development of new products by cost cutting etc, but until then they are a pretty safe bet.

    5. Re:Apple stock is a bubble by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Oh, I don't think that smartphones are going to collapse in sales - they'll just stop growing. Just like PCs. That didn't cause Microsoft to collapse, but it did cause them to lose the huge multiples they previously enjoyed. The same is likely to happen to Apple. If people only replace one smartphone with another, then the market is not longer growing, unless they start replacing them more often.

      Companies are only a safe bet at reasonable prices. A $100 bar of gold is a very safe bet. A $100M bar of gold the same size is not.

      Now, AAPL is only trading at 14x earnings, so it isn't like it is going to completely collapse. It just won't keep going up.

  42. WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by walterbyrd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please explain how raising prices, reducting choice, and stifling innovation is a benefit to consumers?

    1. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rising prices? How so. The entry level iPhone started at $499 when the first iPhone came out. It's gradually dropped and the entry level 4S is now $199.

      And you can now get an older model (the 3GS) for free.

      How is that raising prices?

      Less choice (if that's what we have) is a benefit. See the paradox of choice.

      Patents are a system to reward innovation. And we certainly do see plenty of innovation in the phone market.

    2. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entry level iPhone started at $499 when the first iPhone came out. It's gradually dropped and the entry level 4S is now $199.

      And you can now get an older model (the 3GS) for free.

      Bwahahahahahaha! Typical Apple-tard math. You do realize that those prices bear very little relation to the actual cost of the phone right? Look at the real, e.g., unsubsidized price for the phone if you want to make a legitimate argument. When you do, you'll find the price for the devices is the same or rising. Kind of blows a big fat hole right through your little theory doesn't it, douchebag?

    3. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by walterbyrd · · Score: 2

      And who is to say that prices would not even be lower were not for Apple's junk patent scam?

      And what has this done to the price of Androids?

      And what happens in the future when Apple monolopizes the market? As Apple is clearly trying to do.

      Patents are a system to reward innovation.

      These are junk patents. Apple is clearly exploiting the broken patent system because Apple is scared of fair competition. I would support Apple, if these were real Apple innentions, but they clearly are not.

    4. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by scot4875 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Overcoming the paradox of choice is good for the manufacturer because it gets over a psychological hurdle that the customer would otherwise have to jump to make a purchase.

      It is not in any way a benefit for the customer. Making it easier, psychologically, to spend your money doesn't do jack shit for you.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    5. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by andydread · · Score: 2

      Are you talking about actual prices here? or just the prices that are accompanied by a contract with a carrier that is presented to the customer. You do know that a free phone is really not a free phone right? you know that the 4S is a $700+ phone right? When you get a phone with a contract you pay the full price of the phone over the life of the contract. Here is another question. Why is the 4S actual roughly equal to that of an iPad? The iPad has a much bigger screen and more raw materials so what gives? I would say phone patents and related licenses has quite a bit to do with that.

    6. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      While I agree with you about the above poster not understanding prices, you failed pretty hard too. An iPhone costs the same as an iPad for the same reason a laptop costs more than a similar desktop. The hardware is smaller, and therefore more expensive. It is more complicated to design, requires better heat management and smaller parts. The screen resolution also has to be higher which means more difficult to produce screen panels. All in all, it is actually a small wonder than the iPad doesn't cost less than the iPhone, though I would hazard that it probably has faster hardware to hit a target sweet spot price point as selected by Apple's marketing department.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    7. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Yeah, thank you for that Captain Obvious.

      The iPad with 3G is $20 different in price from the contract free iPhone. The difference will be down to the fact that the iPhone has a much higher DPI on it's screen.

      More useful is comparing the 3G iPad with Wifi iPad. And that's $130, which gives you an idea f the price of 3G. Some of it will be hardware, some software, some indeed will be patent licences.

      But what has that to do with the claim if RISING prices? That is simply the opposite of the truth.

    8. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      While I agree with you about the above poster not understanding prices

      Than you're as stupid as he is. You think anyone here thinks Apple is actually giving away 3G iPhones for nothing? That the cost doesn't come out of the associated 2 year contract. Really?

    9. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      "The Paradox of Choice - Why More Is Less is a 2004 book by American psychologist Barry Schwartz. In the book, Schwartz argues that eliminating consumer choices can greatly reduce anxiety for shoppers."
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_choice

      Reducing anxiety is certainly a benefit for the customer.

      Your argument is like saying that good design is a benefit for the manufacturer not the customer, because it results in more sales. Clearly nonsense.

      Manufacturers sell more because they provide more benefit for the user. In this case by reducing anxiety.

    10. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      Ok, fine, in that case you simply made an argument you knew to be bullshit and hoped people were stupid enough to not realize the fact your argument was bullshit. The original iPhone released at $599 for the top sized model without contract compensation. The current iPhone costs $849 unsubsidized. That would be a $250 increase or almost 50% more. You would be the idiot that wanted us to believe the prices were dropping and was arguing that prices had not gone up.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    11. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And who is to say that prices would not even be lower were not for Apple's junk patent scam?

      You claimed prices were rising. They are not.

      And what happens in the future when Apple monolopizes the market? As Apple is clearly trying to do.

      All companies are trying to monopolise the market, if they can, - that's the top end achievement of increasing market share. In most cases it's not possible. Apple isn't even the biggest mobile phone manufacturer, let alone near a monopoly.

    12. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh boy. Epic failure. Don't worry, we're all equally ashamed of you.

      Smaller parts = less cost. Period. Smaller display = significantly less cost. Period. Smaller battery = less cost. Period. The fact that the iphone is priced as an iPad is an epic example of the premium paid for iPhones. They make little profit on iPads in comparison to iPhones. Basically accountly easily shows iPhones are a cash crop and iPads are struggling for market emergence and acceptance.

      Holy shit people have no fucking clue about the things they post on slashdot these days.

      Thanks for proving /. is dead.

      Here's an idea. Bother to know anything, something, even a tiny little bit about the subject matter before you post or worse, moderate. Your post is a wonderful example of why slashdot is a dead bug on its back kicking a leg here and there as it passes away from the toxic environment is unknowingly wondererd into. And in case its not clear, you and the many like are that toxic environment.

    13. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Ok, fine, in that case you simply made an argument you knew to be bullshit and hoped people were stupid enough to not realize the fact your argument was bullshit.

      No, what I said was correct. Your post however...

      The original iPhone released at $599 for the top sized model without contract compensation.

      Of course that wasn't without contract compensation. It was with a mandatory contract.

      The current iPhone costs $849 unsubsidized.

      Indeed, but you an't compare that with the without-a-contract price of the original iPhone, because it was never sold like that. That's why I compared price-with-a-contract.

      You would be the idiot that wanted us to believe the prices were dropping and was arguing that prices had not gone up.

      Given that I'm right and you are mistaken, that comment doesn't reflect well on you.

    14. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      "With the July 11, 2008 release of the iPhone 3G, Apple and AT&T changed the U.S. pricing model from the previous generation. Following the de facto model for mobile phone service in the United States, AT&T will subsidize a sizable portion of the upfront cost for the iPhone 3G followed by charging moderately higher monthly fees over a minimum two year contract."

      While the contract was required, the phone was NOT subsidized. Apple made less on the phone, AT&T just made more. I understand how you made the mistake, but you are still incorrect.

      --
      AJ Henderson
    15. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by AJH16 · · Score: 1

      Ack, forgot to reference that, it is from wikipedia's page on history of the iPhone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_iPhone

      --
      AJ Henderson
    16. Re:WTF!!? Benefit to consumers? by elashish14 · · Score: 1

      Patents are a system to reward innovation. And we certainly do see plenty of innovation in the phone market.

      Don't confuse implementation for innovation. Apple hasn't invented a damn thing or come up with a single damn idea. They just implement it. Credit where it's due: Apple is the best in the business at implementation. But that does not warrant intellectual 'property.'

      --
      I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
  43. MS and Apple are working together by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    MS, Apple, and Oracle; are all working together to beat up google. Or do you actually think it's just a coincidence that all the bogus lawsuits against Android started at the same time?

  44. These patent fights... by TheSimkin · · Score: 1

    These patent fights are making me dislike Apple and MS more and more. I have never been huge fans, but for them to make it impossible to get the products I desire so I have no choice but to accept their crap alternatives simply won't work. They can't put the cat back in the bag, and by making it harder to get these devices will only make them more aluring. In short, you will have to pry my android phone from my cold dead hands!

    1. Re:These patent fights... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I think the time to dislike MS was a decade ago in that case. Microsoft was far worse a decade ago- they seem to have calmed down a lot recently.

      Incidentally, regarding silly patents. Microsoft holds the patent to a specific breed of apple tree.

      One would have though Apple were the most likely tech company to hold patents on apple tree variants. What possible use does Microsoft have holding an apple tree patent?

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  45. Re:Missing: by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Jobs loved junk patents, and bogus lawsuits, more than anybody. Apple's Tonya Harding tactics started long before Jobs died.

  46. Search for information by voice by TheBogBrushZone · · Score: 2

    Does this mean that I owe Apple £0.10 every time I mutter to myself to help me remember something?

    --
    And behold, a command prompt and he who sat upon it, his name was shutdown and -h 3:11 followed with him
  47. Voice Search by Bumbles · · Score: 1

    My better half is a handheld device at times. Does this mean I am violating Apple's patent anytime I shout, "Honey, where are my keys?"

  48. Here we go again with the Apple hate by 2ms · · Score: 0

    The iPhone completely revolutionized telephones and general personal gadgets unbelievably. They freakin took the risk of designing and producing a device no other company would (or at least apparently could) have dared produce. They freakin deserve to be able to protect their work from theft. If all one had to do to make the best products was wait for someone else to sink all the resources into coming up with and trying out new ideas, and then steal them and clone them, then naturally it would be a losing proposition for anyone to ever do anything innovative. We don't want this. We want companies to be able to invent revolutionary devices like iPhones without it being bad business. So Apple needs to and deserves to be protected. I'mbewildered by the incredible Apple resentment people have toward Apple. It's as if no one hear has ever had anything they did ripped off and taken advantage of by somebody in a manner that made them benefit at your cost. Don't tell me it isn't obvious these Galaxy phones aren't blatant knock-offs because we all know they are. Frankly, we all know Android immediately morphed into an iOS clone as soon as the iPhone was released as well. Don't tell me you think these phones wouldn't look and function 90% the same as iPhones if Apple hadn't taken the risk and investment. For the previous 20 years before the iPhone phones advanced a fraction of the amount they advanced when the iPhone came out. 5 years later and every phone's a damn iPhone clone. Unfortunately, patent law is the only thing we have to force companies to innovate. If companies like Samsung can't come up with their own ideas then they should be required to at least compensate other companies for the investments they have made in creating the ideas and technologies Samsung would like to rip off. I'm outraged by the outrage over this.

    1. Re:Here we go again with the Apple hate by amoeba1911 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I know, right? It's so totally unfair, how's Apple supposed to make any profit at all when everyone's copying their very original ideas! They're barely turning any profit at all from iDevices as it is, and if evil Samsung has their way Apple will lose what little profit margin they have!

      Oh crap, reality called: turns out Apple's making huge profit, and it's bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft founder Bill Gates has turned into a philanthropist and turns out Steve Jobs was a misanthropic lunatic before he died. Apple's making more profit than Exxon or Walmart. Want more reality? Apple's original ideas were stolen from others too. Apple's crap isn't new, it's existing shit marketed to general populace. It's the technology made in a way so soccer moms and douche bags can use it too. The only thing Apple discovered is that soccer moms and douche-bags are a huge market of people with money to waste.

    2. Re:Here we go again with the Apple hate by Skapare · · Score: 2

      This is not a hate of Apple (there are some reasons to hate Apple, but this isn't it). Instead, it's a case of Apple doing what many other companies do because of a broken patent system.

      People have wanted these small mobile devices for years before the iPhone. And Apple would even have made them earlier if the CPU capability were around earlier. Steve Jobs had a very good insight into what the market wanted. But he wasn't the only one who has that insight. In other companies, the many insights Steve Jobs had might not all be in one person, and so those companies react slower. Apple had the advantage by having the top guy also having insights into the market. But this is NOT unique innovation. Steve Jobs did not personally oversee every detail. He just made sure there was a framework for others to put the ideas in. But that's the kind of thing that can happen at any company.

      The patent system's purpose is NOT to create monopoly, specifically. Instead, it's purpose is to create innovation that would not have happened, otherwise. The monopoly of reward is the means of the patent system to encourage innovation that would not have happened.

      99% of the patented "innovations" in smart phones, whether done by Apple or others, is not something the patent system was made for. These are things many dozens of engineers or programmers could have made, very often trivially. Patent lawyers won't recognize that because they are not paid to. If the company boss says "patent everything we can get away with", those lawyers will. The real tests need to be applied by the patent office. But they have a fundamental problem: they need more, and better, patent examiners, but that would also mean less money coming in. So in the end, we get junk patents. And in this day and age of 99% of technology being trivial, we get 99% junk patents. In the 19th century that might have been around 50%, given that the vast majority of the population was entirely out of tune with science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. Today, we have so many more people (millions) into STEM. Very very little of technology today is "something we would not have but for that one inventor making it" that the patent system was made for.

      I do not agree that these are blatant knockoffs. They are designs that work well. We would have these designs whether Apple did it first or not, because the design is so obvious to hundreds of UX engineers. Notice that the tablet is so obvious it's design even existed in the 1960's (which you would have seen had you watched Star Trek). Had you asked me to design a phone that is also a personal mobile computer, I could have come up with the design we see as an iPhone or a Nexus as early as the mid 1970's. The finer points of the styling might be special to Apple, but the basic bar design and most of the technology in it is just obvious.

      I'm outraged over the stupid corporate monopoly-oriented attitude about this. Where would we be without a patent system today? Would Steve Jobs have just said "screw it, I'm not going to make anything cool because I won't get to be the only supplier of it"? I think not.

      I'm not opposed to the patent system concept. I think it still has a place. And there may well be some technology in smart phones which we would lack without a patent system. But not much. I'd bet more people would be willing to jump in and start creating even more if they didn't have the FUD caused by the risk that some company with lots of lawyers might come along and take it all away just because that company managed to trick an incompetent patent process into issuing patents for little things.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:Here we go again with the Apple hate by forkfail · · Score: 1

      Except... they weren't the first. Including with swipe to unlock or voice activation or search.

      --
      Check your premises.
    4. Re:Here we go again with the Apple hate by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      You do realise that not one thing about an iphione was new, and smartphones were available elsewhere for years?

      No wait your a fanboy so logic doesnt apply. Fuck I am sick of brain dead apple fanboys. Just got a iphone and frankly its a piece of crap, no better or worse than nay other phone, and its battery life is fucking hopeless.

  49. Re:Apple, please just help stop the Patent Insanit by GodInHell · · Score: 1

    I think Apple's goal is to get to the point where it extracts enough licensing deals out of Android manufacturers that Apple starts to make more off of Android sales then Google does. Cornering the market by extortion.

  50. Apple Launches New ... by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one to think as a hardware company the sentence "Apple Launches New" should be followed by the name of a new gadget? Apple got loved for launching iMac, iPod, iPhone and iPad. Lately, the only thing they're launching is frivolous lawsuits.

  51. Roddenbery's estate: SUE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To date, the first "voice operated computer search" i can remember was in the "star trek" series, which also appears to have prior art on wireless flip-phones.

    (automatic sliding doors? hand-held medical scanners?)

    Maybe gene's estate should just issue a mass lawsuit and have the settlement be "you cannot patent any idea that was in any science fiction story before it was on your technology"

    1. Re:Roddenbery's estate: SUE! by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Maybe gene's estate should just issue a mass lawsuit and have the settlement be "you cannot patent any idea that was in any science fiction story before it was on your technology"

      OTOH, any aspect of how to make it actually work, that is not obvious (a point the USPTO fails to check), should be patentable.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Roddenbery's estate: SUE! by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      OTOH, again, that is not the way Apple is using their junk patents. Apple is acting as if Apple invented the idea of voice commands, and suing anybody that creates a device that uses voice commands. I do not see Apple suing over a specific implementation.

  52. This is going to help Samsung sales by Monoman · · Score: 1

    I had a first gen iPhone and now an HTC Evo. I'm pretty darn sure my next phone will be a Samsung running Android.

    --
    Keep the Classic Slashdot.
  53. Apple is like a spoiled child refusing to share. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I can understand that Apple is trying to maintain its position as a leader in smartphones and tablets and suing competitors is one way to do that. However, Slashdot posts stories about Apple suing other companies so often that I now view it as petty bickering. Every time I read a story Apple suing a company, I cannot help but picture a spoiled 3 year old that refuses to share toys while screaming "It's my toy!"... even if it isn't his toy.

  54. Re:Apple is like a spoiled child refusing to share by Skapare · · Score: 1

    It's really just part of the broken patent system. All these big corporations sue each other all the time over trivial and/or obvious patents. Then they kiss and make up and share their patents (and some money, etc). Then they sue all over again. In the mean time, consumers are the big losers. And this is all because the USPTO does not check patents for appropriateness with regard to the original purpose of patents (to encourage innovation of things that could not be created by someone else knowledgeable in the current science and art involved). They just let anything go through, and 99% of what is issued in the past few years is junk we either do not need, or someone would still do it anyway without a patent system.

    Apple's behavior is just a symptom of the problem.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  55. Apple sues everyone for existing! by kawabago · · Score: 2

    I always said Apple would be worse than Microsoft if it was ever given a chance. I hate being so very right.

    1. Re:Apple sues everyone for existing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But neither my mac nor my iPhone ever crash or need antivirus so it's alright.

  56. it's a shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a shame that companies can't compete.

    Imagine if Ford tried to prevent other car companies from putting doors on vehicles, or maybe said they couldn't put locks on the doors.

  57. Please get back on your meds by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    It's for your own good. Not only is your post irrelevant to the subject being discussed, it seems to be irrelevant to everything.

    Okay, nevermind, I will leave to scream hysterically, and incoherently, about google.

  58. Apple is using junk patents by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Apple is using junk patents to mug Apple competitors. We both know it. Why do you pretend otherwise?

    DISCLAIMER: The lawsuit farce is just getting silly, and software patents are getting ridiculous.

    And yet you defend Apple? Hypocrisy much?

    1. Re:Apple is using junk patents by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I defend certain things that they have done, and criticise others. See, the world is not black and white, as much as slashdot would like to think it is.

      Apple's original lawsuit over the design of Samsung's copy of the iPhone 3G was legitimate - the thing was pretty much Xeroxed and shipped. Everyone knew it, every review commented on it, everyone speculated that it would draw a lawsuit and it did.

      What I *don't* think are legit are the subsequent "lawsuit wars" that appear to have sprung up over nonsense like unlocking a phone by sliding on the screen, or taking photos on a phone and having them attach to emails, or voice search but on a phone and all that other trivial stuff.

      It's not hypocrisy to hold both of those positions simultaneously. To claim so is just ridiculously naive, or just a deliberate attempt to discredit me to win the argument rather than addressing the actual points.

    2. Re:Apple is using junk patents by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      Apple's original lawsuit over the design of Samsung's copy of the iPhone 3G was legitimate - the thing was pretty much Xeroxed and shipped.

      You mean like Apple "Xeroxed" the JooJoo/Crunchpad?

      Name me anything that you think Apple copied, that had not been done before. Name an actual Apple invention that you think Samsung ripped off.

    3. Re:Apple is using junk patents by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Again, like in another comment on this thread you're trying to muddy the water to make this all about an evil Apple who does nothing but steal things and does no actual work of its own.

      You're either wilfully, (I suspect) or just through plain stupidity (possible but unlikely), misinterpreting the distinction between designing a product and inventing things.

      Come back when you are ready to acknowledge the difference. You can leave the thinly veiled "Apple doesn't actually do anything" nonsense at the door too, it only weakens your argument.

    4. Re:Apple is using junk patents by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Seems he cant name anything, and so comes up with an irrelevant rant. Fanboy for sure!

    5. Re:Apple is using junk patents by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      How is it irrelevant (unless you're unsure of what that word means)?

      The OP talks about naming an Apple *invention* (emphasis his) that Samsung copied, when the discussion is all about the design of the iPhone 3G and Samsung's copying of it.

      Now, either he misunderstands what the term invention means, which is possible but unlikely, or he's trying to distort the argument away from the copied design and towards an "Apple doesn't invent anything!" bash instead, rather than addressing the point.

      He's doing this because he knows I cannot respond with "Apple invented the iPhone 3G", since that is a nonsense statement - and Samsung didn't copy Apple's "invention" of the iPhone 3G. Samsung copied Apple's *design* for the iPhone 3G, which is a different argument. So, while I cannot "name an invention that Samsung copied from Apple" it does not invalidate my original argument, or the validity of the claim that Samsung copied the iPhone 3G.

      The English language is often vague and full of exceptions, but the terms design, invention and innovation all mean different things, and trying to skew the argument by changing terminology around when it suits is just pointless.

      Apple didn't "invent" things for the iPhone 3G - pretty much everything that goes into making one has already been invented. Just like most things that go into a modern car have already been invented. You develop and design a new car you, do not "invent" one, in the same way that you develop and design a phone. Some things might be new, but mostly you are developing and using inventions and innovations that already exist. You might use them in new ways, or come up with some other innovative idea, but generally what you are doing has been done in one form or another.

      So, no, I cannot "name anything" because Apple have no inventions that Samsung have stolen. Everything Samsung took falls under the heading of design and (to a lesser extent) innovation. Several examples of that, but that's not what the OP challenged (and deliberately so).

      This is not difficult stuff, but it's like slashdot Apple haters just lose their common sense and make themselves look intentionally silly when a chance to bash Apple comes up (and for the record, I think the lawsuit mentioned here in the original article is just nonsense, but apparently this makes me a hypocrite because I'm not 100% on one side or the other and actually have an opinion in the middle. Such is the playschool politics of slashdot at the moment I guess).

  59. dude .... dude ....... by unity100 · · Score: 1

    .......... dude. just, let it go, alright ? there's no point in that anymore. be rational.

  60. Apple did not invent anything here by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    This is just a case of Apple using junk patents, to file bogus lawsuits, because Apple want's to pull a Tonya Harding and break the knee caps of Apple competitors.

    Do you actually believe otherwise? Then please tell us what Apple actually invented?

    1. Re:Apple did not invent anything here by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

      They invented the letter i, clearly.

      --
      What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
    2. Re:Apple did not invent anything here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i you cannot spell Jobs without an i.

  61. Lets screw apple. by unity100 · · Score: 1

    really. we can do it. we are all tech people, developers, bloggers, administrators, moderators, networkers, this that. we all have participation in communities and we have our own small or big websites. if we start educating people as to what apple is doing, and we advocate for prevention of it, we will make them stop it. or, we will make others stop it. so much that all we need is to talk, advocate, put up banners and informational pages and so on.

    dont think we can ?

    well, we did it with firefox.

    even google used the power of these crowds ( small webmasters and developers and communities ) with adsense/adwords - which propelled them into the predominant status they have today.

    so, we can do it. its our internet. our phones. its our digital age. apple and all others should be obliging to us, not us to them. lets make them. setting apple straight in that fashion, would send a message to all the other 'big' ones out there.

  62. Popular does not mean revolutionary by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    The iPhone is a beautiful, quality, product. Apple deserves a lot of credit for making a great product, that has sold very well.

    But, in deference to the Apple zealots, Apple did not invent the smart phone, or a handheld device with icons, or rounded corners, or a device that accepts voice commands, or everything shiny.

  63. Maybe Apple deserves to be hated? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Ever think of that? I wonder if Foxconn workers love Apple?

  64. Re:Apple is like a spoiled child refusing to share by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    It's really just part of the broken patent system.

    No, Apple chose to file all these junk patents, and Apple chose to file all the bogus lawsuits.

  65. Holy cow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of all the stupid comments about "patent laws are dumb" and "how can you patent an image" is so far off base of what is really happening that the /. crowd is beyond amusing.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/308995-the-apple-samsung-patent-fight

    In short, Samsung have Apple over something of a barrel here. Apple must have access to those 3G patents and it's entirely possible that given the insistence upon FRAND terms for such patents in a standard, that Apple must either cough up 2-4% of sales to Samsung and/or licence their intellectual property to them.

    The key is Samsung wanted Apple to share the licensing of Apple's IP over some of their designs, Apple said no dice and would rather pay the licensing for the 3G chips instead of giving Samsung rights to some of Apple's patents. Who cares who patents what, it is part of the laws and WON'T CHANGE. Amended, maybe, changed, no way. Apple is just slinging shit back at Samsung for Samsung's dirty games. They both play them.

    It is nothing to do with "Ice Cream Sandwich" or "Android". Who cares.

  66. Correct me if i'm wrong.. by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 1

    ...but just last week wasn't there was an article from apple saying stuff like this should stop?
    Oh...of course...they just meant stop against them.

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  67. free market in 'patents' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time to erase the word 'patent' out of the dictionary - oh, and 'lawyer' too....while we're at it, 'politician'

  68. Name something Apple *invented* by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Especially if it's something that cost Apple a huge amount of R&D. And especially, especially, if it pertains to the flood of lawsuits coming from Apple these days.

  69. Please be specific by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Please name some that is an actual, non-obvious, Apple invention.

    Name something that - irrefutably - Apple was the very first to implement. An Idea that absolutely did exist before Apple. Something that Apple spent a huge amount of money developing.

    Do you really expect anybody to believe that rounded corners, or voice commands, are Apple "inventions?"

    1. Re:Please be specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please name some that is an actual, non-obvious, Apple invention.

      Name something that - irrefutably - Apple was the very first to implement. An Idea that absolutely did exist before Apple. Something that Apple spent a huge amount of money developing.

      Do you really expect anybody to believe that rounded corners, or voice commands, are Apple "inventions?"

      How about the graphical computer? The mouse! They invented the MP3 player, and back in the day, they invented the record and the Beatles! G-d Damn you PC idiots to hell!

  70. Name an original Apple idea? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    I'm talking about the straight up Samsung copied the iPhone 3G suit

    Exactly what, in the suit, is an actual Apple invention? Can you specify something that nobody did before Apple? How about something that took a load of R&D dollars?

    1. Re:Name an original Apple idea? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Nice non-sequitur.

      Let's say I make a copy of the current Ford Mustang, and Ford sues me because of it.

      What exactly in the car is an actual Ford invention? Can you specify something nobody did before Ford? (Perhaps mass production of automobiles, but certainly not the automobile itself). How about something that took a load of R&D dollars?

    2. Re:Name an original Apple idea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess the answer is no, you can not come up with something they invented or were the first to use.

    3. Re:Name an original Apple idea? by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      No, the answer is "yes, I can", but it doesn't matter, since whatever example I go for there will be some new reason or excuse as to why it doesn't count, or how it's "not innovation" or "not an invention" or "not a design" (since people seem to be deliberately misunderstanding the difference between the three concepts as it suits them).

  71. i hate slide to unlock anyways. by pjr.cc · · Score: 1

    I always wanted to make my own unlock screen for android, but you cant do that, you have to code an entire launcher which is annoying.

    What i wanted in an unlock though was for 3 buttons to come up on the screen in some random locations and have to click them all in order... slide to unlock just annoys me personally.

    1. Re:i hate slide to unlock anyways. by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      At the least, the slide bar should at the top, not the bottom. This would make it easier for one handed unlocking.

      Damn, now that I posted that, Apple will probably steal the idea and sue me.

  72. What Apple *invention* did Samsung copy? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Name something of Apple's that was copied by Samsung, other than an obvious junk patent.

    1. Re:What Apple *invention* did Samsung copy? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1
  73. What did Samsung copy, that Apple invented? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Clearly, Apple did not invent slide to open, or rounded corners. Such things are junk patents anyway.

    So what did Apple spend so much money inventing, that Samsung copied?

    1. Re:What did Samsung copy, that Apple invented? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I agree that such things are junk patents and I'm certainly not going to try defend "slide to open" or most of the crap that Apple is claiming to invent.

      My point was that it's difficult to win the market by building a better product when someone else can come along and copy it and sell it cheaper, making it more difficult for you to "win" the market.

      But I'll actually turn your question around. Is your argument that Samsung's Galaxy Nexus is a better product than Apple's iPhone and that Apple should devote it's time to building something better than the Samsung Nexus rather than trying to keep the better product away from consumers? I'd be curious to hear how you think Samsung's Galaxy Nexus is a better product. I won't necessarily disagree with you, but I'd be curious to hear a reasonable argument as to what makes the Galaxy Nexus better than the iPhone--something that Apple should be trying to catch up with.

  74. Samsung did not make an exact copy by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    A lot of cars do look a lot alike.

    As I posted before, I can tell the difference between the apple product, and the so-called samsung ripoff with my eyes closed. I can do it easily, With my eyes open, I can the difference in a fraction of a second.

    Furthermore, wouldn't that be a trademark issue, and not a patent issue?

    To extend the car analogy, if ford acted like apple, ford would be suing other car makers who put the steering wheel on the right, or had four wheels on their car. In fact, those would be ford patents.

    If you doubt that, then look at the laughably silly "inventions" that apple is claiming.

  75. In your dreams Baz by Falconhell · · Score: 1

    Are you on drugs Basil? I just got the iphone 4s and its a piece of crap with shit battery life and a soso OS. Very disappointed, and stuck with the piece of shit for 2 years.

  76. They need to get a room by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    Just to get rid of all the tension between them. It's like a badly written sitcom.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  77. Uck Fapple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you serious? You want to stop them from selling because of using a sliding motion to disable the screen saver? Because they can search by voice? I am going to claim prior art on both of those. To unlock my magazine, I use my finger on the "page" with a sliding motion, the same way I navigate between pages. I place the magazine in my lap, on a desk, on the buttocks of my sleeping girlfriend, and slide using my fingers. Apple did not "invent" this. As for voice searching, I think that was invented by Pericles, when he famously asked the Athenians "where may I drain the lizard?" That was a voice search, executed thousands of years before that patent troll masquerading as a computer company "Apple" came into being. Pericles should sue Apple.

    The reality is that Apple just doesn't like having to compete with someone who is using an OBVIOUS feature they stole from elsewhere to compete with their overpriced crap. Remember when they sued M$ for stealing the thing they themselves stole from XEROX PARC?

  78. Patent patents! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not make a patent on bogus patents, or patent patents, or just to avoid this patent patenting patents and so on..

  79. we want it all... by Meski · · Score: 1

    infringes on patents underlying features customers expect from its products
    That sounds like "whatever anyone else thinks of that we or our customers like for our product, we've already got a patent on it"
    Rushes to patents office and takes out a patent on "All your base are belong to us"

  80. Prior Art! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was able to search for information by voice, in Dragon Dictate in 1996!

  81. a question of ethics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though of course it's completely legal for companies to enforce their IP against their competition, I am ambivalent; is it ethical for corporations to use patent litigation merely as an anti-competitive tactic, or should these disputes be settled in the marketplace, where they belong?