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Mozart and Bach Handel Subway Station Crime
Hugh Pickens writes "The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports that transit officials have started to get a handel on subway crime when they started playing Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, and Strauss at the Lake Street light-rail station after neighborhood residents complained about the station becoming a haven for rowdy teens and vagrants. 'If it encourages some people to wander away because it's not their favorite type of music, I guess that's OK,' says Acting Transit Police Chief A.J. Olson. The program is modeled after one is Portland that has shown early signs of success, though the numbers are so small as to be statistically insignificant and even supporters of the music haven't reached a consensus on whether such environmental changes actually deter crime or just push it down the block. Not everyone is sold on using 'lovely lovely Ludwig Van' as a deterrent. 'Classical music lovers hate the fact that urban planners use classical music to disperse youth,' says Minneapolis City Council Member Gary Schiff. 'Does it chase crime away?' adds Olson. 'It's hard to measure. But I do think it makes it a more pleasant place to wait for a train.'"
How much does it cost to do this and how much less does the city have to pay for security?
Maybe they got a 'Händel' on crime.
[...]has shown early signs of success, though the numbers are so small as to be statistically insignificant [...]
In other words, no significant effect of the music on crime statistics has been measured. Or am I missing something?
Must be a sign of the times. The risk here is of course that others will be turned away from classical music because it starts to remind them of the subway....
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The first and foremost advantage is to have a pleasant wait for your train. I would love to have classical music at my train stations.
If it can act as a deterrent for inamical people, I take it as a bonus.
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, and Strauss - The Gangbusters
"When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail."
This isn't a particularly new idea. I know that certain shopping centres here in the UK have been using it for quite some time.
I've got mixed feelings. It's certainly unpleasant to have large groups of feral youths hanging around shopping centres and in principle, something that encourages them to be elsewhere without much fuss is a good thing. On the other hand... it just shifts the problem around. I'd rather have the gang of feral youths stood menacingly inside the brightly lit CCTV-infested shopping centre than in the unlit, unguarded car park outside.
At least using music for this is better than some of the alternatives. I know that one idea that was briefly used was high pitched noise emitters - the theory being that with young people generally being able to hear higher ranges than adults, only they would be irritated by the noise. I objected to this one very strongly indeed - the noise was outright painful (my hearing is odd - I'm bad at sorting conversation from background noise, but seem to have retained my ability to hear very high ranges) and it was indiscriminate. It was offensive to the "good kid" going shopping for their parents as it was to the feral youth looking for his next mugging victim. I seem to remember that particular trick had to be pulled due to legal reasons.
I guess I also have some gut concerns about whether this impinges on rights such as freedom of assembly. I guess if it's being used on private property, then it's fine. On subways... that seems a bit more morally dubious.
And as for the choice of music... I don't think classical music lovers should be particularly offended. Though as somebody who is relatively fond of classical music, I will admit that taken out of place, it can be intrusive. Anybody reading this who commutes through London's Victoria Station will be aware that every few weeks they have some opera singer (and supporting instrumentation) there, collecting money for a cancer research charity. I know it's for a good cause and I shouldn't whinge but... when you're waiting for a delayed train and just want to get home after a long day, the singing, while perfectly "cultured", due to its volume and pitch, can be as intrusive and offensive as blazingly loud gangsta rap would be.
How is this even news?
Other stations have been doing this for years.
Frankston in Melbourne, Aus (not a nice place to be, last time I checked) had to cover speakers with protective cages, as the youth discovered if you smash the sound source, the music would stop.
I would also go with Eno's "Music for Airports". A wonderful piece that does wonders with the stressful atmosphere of contemporary travel.
FCKGW 09F9 42
Just moves the crime so its haydn somewhere else.
Since when do the real numbers matter? What really matters is that some politician has shown to "Fight against Crime" (note the capital letters, those are important).
People demand that action is taken against the nuisances and crime. Whether the action actually works is really not so important, as the results of pretty much every election around the world show.
A feeling of safety is far more emotional than rational. So, go away with your statistics, and leave us emotional non-rational people alone.
And obviously, in about a year from now, we demand Action against Crime. Again.
Clearly the Ludovico Technique is required to make this subway program actually work.
-mrxak
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I woke up. The pain and sickness all over me like an animal. Then I realized what it was. The music coming up from the floor was our old friend, Ludwig Van, and the dreaded Ninth Symphony.
I'm 38 years old. Definitely not a troublemaker. I have a legitimate reason to be waiting at train stations.
And I hate Handel and Mozart. Why should I be subjected to it?
Also, I can clearly hear those high pitched "mosquito" tones that are meant to disperse young people. Again, why should I be subjected to it?
And what about law abiding young people?
Maybe they should have supplied Meyerbeer.
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Playing classical music that is no longer protected by copyright and performed for the purpose of free redistribution/public performance keeps the IP lawyers away. They can't stand to hear anything that cannot be used as the basis of a lawsuit. Interestingly enough, keeping the lawyers off the streets may reduce crime more than keeping rowdy teens away.
We may be on to something here... what can we play in public places to keep bank execs away? Anyone have audio transcripts of Congressional inquiries into the subprime mortgage crisis? I'd like to play that loudly on my phone the next time I'm standing in line at the bank... if everyone did that, it would be better than a sea of Guy Fawkes masks.
Would be more intelligent to invest some money to give the kids some places and opportunities, instead of chasing them around. A club, workshop or hackerspace for instance.
It will work for awhile. But once everyone starts doing it everywhere, a new strain of harpsichord-loving crack dealer will emerge and be more difficult to eradicate. They'll try changing the music to polka, which will work for awhile. The city needs to decide who the people are and talk to them. Otherwise these effects are like a bright kitchen light on cockroaches, it doesn't get to the root of the city's problems. Who knows, maybe these kids are like the hippies whom city elders wanted off the lawns and parks in 1966. Maybe there's a Steve Jobs or Wozniak milling around under the streetlights. I know a lot of really nice high school kids who'd probably leave if you played classical music at them... which was always the problem with that soap, it killed the good bacteria and let staph grow in its place.
Gently reply
"...such environmental changes actually deter crime or just push it down the block. Not everyone is sold on using 'lovely lovely Ludwig Van' as a deterrent."
So somewhere, some when there is a person who believes a little Bethoven will so move teenage youth to give up all crime, and become law abiding citizens. And they say the perpetual youth are the delusional.
by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
For some reason, people have an apathy to this kind of music when they are young. when older, its different.
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Hopefully, over time, this will attract a better class of muggers.
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Galloping through the sward
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
And his horse Concorde
He steals from the rich
And gives to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore
Whomever chose the music library is definitely showing racially-preferential tendencies.
Oh, God. Another group of fucking elitists. Instead of being happy more people are exposed to classical music they're going to complain. "No! Don't use our favorite thing on the masses! They aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate this music." They're just like the Apple fans upset the new iPhone doesn't look significantly different from the previous model so they can differentiate themselves.
They're just hoping to get a better class of criminals.
âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Perhaps we could extend this to a treatment for offenders.....
Whomever chose the music library is definitely showing racially-preferential tendencies.
Your comment educated me. I was about to point out that there were not any black composers, but decided to check. how wrong I was. Listen to this beautiful composition as an example.
They could, as an alternative, start playing avant-modern classical, like Penderecki, Webern, Xenakis. The subway station with the least crime is the one with no patrons at all.
"sorry; no time for the in-out, love. just come to read the meter!"
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
But I do not care for classical music, so when I go to the station I will put in my ear buds and be rachmaninoff.
Silence is a state of mime.
I was going to ask the same thing - fortunately, I searched through all previous responses before posing the question.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
The Twin Cities light rail system is entirely above ground.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
... and yet attracts awful jokes and puns with equal force.
Media in general likes a story to have "conflict" (even when it doesn't), and Slashdot these days is far worse than most. However, half the conflicts you read about here are entirely made-up. Of the three articles linked in this summary, not a single one quotes a single opponent or critic. It's just something that "Unknown Lamer" tacked on at the end, because the Slashdot-format would incomplete without something like that.
I can't really blame Slashdot, though. Reading this silly comment above (and, sadly, watching myself type a response)... there are plenty of people who take bait.
Well, yeah.
See, the great thing about this system is, the ones in charge eventually die, usually before you. Then you get to be in charge, yaaay!
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I have seen people doing that in Chicago and Toronto
They do it at Elm Park too, though in the ticket hall not on the platforms.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
As long as they don't play "singing in the rain"! It will have a reverse effect, causing old ultra-violence to occur.
So, will Roll Over Beethoven have the same beneficial effect?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I've always preferred a classical soundtrack for my rage. De gustibus. Hope this encourages the modern kids to acquire the taste.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
I hate it whenever music is used to fill a void, as a background hum. In one sense it's a bit like covering walls with cheap copies of Mona Lisa, in that it inflates the value. Especially when classical music is played through crappy PA systems at stations.
Another reason, for me at least, is the way music grabs your attention. I'm something of a musician and I'm sensitive to picking out sonic patterns, but it gets tiring if you have to listen to music all the time, even when it's good. It's also hard to come up with your own musical ideas, while being bombarded by others.
Background music is worst when you're working on something else. It's worse if you happen to like the music, it's like having your cubicle walls covered with porn.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I was going to say that this sort of thing was going to lead to this generation's "A Fifth of Beethoven" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxS0gO_-TQk), but then I saw on the right that we've already had techno and dubstep versions of Beethoven made.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
Equal time. If you play classical, you have to give time to rap, dubstep, Gregorian chants and Tuvan throat-singing too.
Can't be accused of squandering taxpayer money on things whose appeal favors a particular minority group. Specifically the wealthy conservatives.
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In Copenhagen Central Station, Denmark, Europe, the entrance facing a street inhabited by alcoholically challenged and drug users has had Classical music in speakers at the entrance for decades. Apparently classical music has an annoying effect on such people and discouraging them from "hanging around" especially in the rain etc. Seems to work. :)
I can't find any official information on it. It's based on hearsay.
but that may drive away the younger crowd
Intentionally leaving out 3/4 and 6/8, because those are too common. Oh, and also leaving out the more "proggy" bands like Tool and Dream Theater, because then this would be too easy.
Money by Pink Floyd (7/4)
Four Sticks by Led Zeppelin (5/4)
Spoonman by Soundgarden (7/4)
Silhouette by Thrice (4/4 and 7/4)
Words in the Water and Hold Fast Hope bu Thrice (5/4)
Before the Lobotomy (middle section in 7/8)
March of the Pigs by Nine Inch Nails (29/8)
Time Like These by Foo Fighters (main riff in 7/8)
Paranoid Android by Radiohead (sections in 7/4)
Pyramid Song by Radiohead (16/8, piano plays in groups in 3-3-4-3-3)
Idiotique by Radiohead (6/4 drums, 4/4 vocals)
Everything In It's Right Place by Radiohead (10/4)
15 Step by Radiohead (5/4)
2+2=5 by Radiohead (7/8)
Are there a ton? No. But are there really THAT many songs in the classical realm that aren't 4/4, 3/4, 6/8 either?
I read about a clever piece of work by some town officials in a German town to drive away teens hanging around a certain area at night (drinking and harrassing people).
What they did was install a light usually used by dermatologists which highlights unclean skin -- pimples and the like.
The teens stayed away.
You didn't read the quote, right under the "Portland says it works" sub-headline?
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/138615169.html
Media stories like to get both sides to look balanced, and frequently shoehorn in an unsubstantiated quote just to make it look like they covered both sides. All it takes is one off-hand remark in an interview, and you bet it's going in the column. There's no doubt about it.
But it's important to direct your concern in the appropriate direction. You can't blame this one on Slashdot, at least no more than the usual click-generating sausage factory summaries.
As for classical music lovers, they feel it should be appreciated, and they feel uniquely qualified to appreciate it. Letting "the rabble" listen to it, without a chance to understand an appreciate it, cheapens it.
Personally, it annoys me to no end to hear some of the greatest music ever written played constantly, and perhaps by not-so-top-notch players. I become accustomed to it, and as with anything else it gives me no pleasure. And that is a shame. At the same time, once you have heard "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" for the hundredth time, maybe it's time to move on to something a bit more challenging. So I'm on both sides of the issue.
The same atmosphere could probably be created with Muzak, but it would cost more.
So, what's up with classical music lovers hating this idea and concept? If they weren't a bunch of pretentious blowhards before, they certainly upped the ante with that attitude. Give me a break. Most classical "lovers" are at home listening to their beloved music on a $10,000 record player pumped through $27,000 worth of "sonic purification" anyway, because anything less would be....well uncivilised.
For anyone with a bit of interest, Amazon has this series of "99 Greatest Hits by xxx" covering lots of classical composers, with recordings that are actually perfectly decent, at a very low price (I got some for £2.99 and others for £4.99). Doesn't need a $10,000 record player. Sounds perfectly fine with an iPod and $100 Grado headphones.
One of my favourite records is some really old piano music played by Dinu Lipatti - and no $10,000 player can help with the fact that a lot of it is radio recordings. Not recordings made in a radio station, but recordings made by holding a microphone to a radio. Doesn't change that he plays like a god.
"it's that there are frequently no words"
Are you crazy or did you only listen to a superficial sampling of classical music. Granted, a lot of classical music is only instrumental but there are a lot a vocal pieces as well. There is all the operas, the 9'th symphony by Beethoven, Handles Messiah and these examples are just for starters. To say classical music is mostly instrumental is ludicrous.
Smart criminals will simply wait for the 1812 Overture.
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bork bork bork.
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Drinking gave invented for Swedish subtitled movies (which for some reason seam common on Netflix, thumbs up for 'Troll Hunter'). Drink every time you hear the Swedish chef.
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Lets not have government agencies get in the habit of piping music into public spaces! Can we? Really? I don't care what the reason is, it's just way too creepy eastern-blocish for me...
The Lake St. light rail station in Minneapolis is one of the few with an indoor area (an enclosed escalator) and heat. In the winter, the students from nearby schools tend to congregate in the stairwells and escalators, smoking (which is illegal, of course). The music works because it drives them outdoors, helping passengers feel safer because they don't have to push through a crowd of high school students. Of course, whether or not people should feel unsafe because of a crowd of kids smoking is a different issue, but I'd guess most of the adult travelers coming through the station prefer the loud music to the loitering teens.
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will empty the stations entirely.
The LRT stations in Calgary were doing this twenty years ago for the same reasons.
November Rain, back when GNR was a rock band.
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My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
I WISH /. was one of the worse offenders.
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The ultra-sonic cleaner?
No, George Michael. Early George Michael. Wham. "Wake me up before you Go-Go." I am still cringing from the thought.
Not everyone is sold on using classical music as a deterrent.
"Classical music lovers hate the fact that urban planners use classical music to disperse youth," Schiff said.
Um? what? who? has there been a actual complaint forma classical music lovers specifically stating they don't want classical music? r is it just someone who thinks it won't work?
I know some pretty hard core Classical music buffs,add all of them would love this.
Granted my sample size is tine, but probably larger the Schiff's sample size; which I suspect consists of 'no one'.
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There was a coffee shop next to a record store that got a lot of kids that would buy a single cup and sit all day listening to music and hogging the WiFi. Then the shop started playing classical music and the kids went away. Now normal people can sit and drink their coffee in piece and browse using the WiFi. After 30 minutes the password on the receipt expires and they have to buy another $5 worth of stuff. This was back in the late '90s. This phenomenon is not unknown.