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Advertisers Co-Opting The Lorax With Half-Truths About Conservation

pigrabbitbear writes with an interesting opinion on the "green" marketing surrounding The Lorax movie adaptation. From the article: "There may be all kinds of reasons to defend the Lorax — Dr. Seuss's wondrous children's fable that's also a seminal book about conservation — from the wrath of Lou Dobbs and Fox News and others to whom the children's book-turned-Disney film is little more than liberal propaganda. ... For adults dealing with the real world of compromise, the Lorax is loved and hated for being such a ridiculously staunch environmentalist. Dude refuses to give an inch, which isn’t realistic, but certainly makes him a compelling character. That character is now being used as a shill for the CX-5, a small SUV that’s being billed as fuel-efficient and eco-friendly. What has the poor Lorax become?"

265 comments

  1. no sense of irony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody needs a thneed - or a CX4 or whatever.

    1. Re:no sense of irony? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I always wanted to know why the Once-ler didn't *shave* the trees for thneeds, instead of cutting them down. But then again, as a child at the time I was reading this book for the first time, I was also raising sheep in 4-H.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. Tragedy by vlm · · Score: 4, Funny

    That character is now being used as a shill for the CX-5, a small SUV that’s being billed as fuel-efficient and eco-friendly.

    I'm more concerned about lightning mcqueen from cars and cars2 being used to sell my kid a lunch box and thermos (true story!)

    Come on... slow news day?

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Tragedy by kj_kabaje · · Score: 0

      No--there using this story as a metric of how many /. readers are sympathetic to OWS and similar political agendas.  With all the changes since Taco left (flags?), this subtle quantification and increase in slashvertisements has made it ever more clear how /. will sell its users as product.  Damn it.  My post is self-fulfilling prophecy.

    2. Re:Tragedy by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No it's not. I see those commercials as the new CX-5 is GREEN because it runs on the little furry creatures instead of oil.

      Why use oil when we can breed these furry things as a renewable fuel source?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Tragedy by Wild_dog! · · Score: 2

      They need something that runs on stuffed animals. I have thrown away many garbage bags of them and my kids keep getting more somehow. It is quite miraculous how they keep coming into the house.

    4. Re:Tragedy by __aaeihw9960 · · Score: 1

      Worst horror movie ever.

    5. Re:Tragedy by phrostie · · Score: 1

      I here by claim patent and copyright on the term BioTribbles.

      This patent covers Farming of and processes to breakdown and refine them into a environmentally friendly fuel alternative.

    6. Re:Tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No--there using this story as a metric of how many /. readers are sympathetic to OWS and similar political agendas. With all the changes since Taco left (flags?), this subtle quantification and increase in slashvertisements has made it ever more clear how /. will sell its users as product. Damn it. My post is self-fulfilling prophecy.

      No, you post is unreadable due to the font.

    7. Re:Tragedy by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Come on... slow news day?

      Must be, I didn't see many stories posted yet this morning. But what I thought was more interesting was something I saw on TV news a few days ago. It seems that some grade school kids took on the studios for their lack of environmentalism in the movie's web site, and THE KIDS BEAT HOLLYWOOD!

      I wish I had a link, but it was TV.

    8. Re:Tragedy by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It is quite miraculous how they keep coming into the house.

      The same way empty clothes hangers seemingly spontaneously come into being in the closet -- it's the missing socks. Socks are the larvae of coathangers and stuffed animals.

    9. Re:Tragedy by mdsolar · · Score: 2

      Then, when every last cent of their money was spent,
      the Fix-It-Up-Chappie packed up and he went.
      And he laughed as he drove in his car up the beach,
      “They never will learn; no, you can’t teach a Sneetch!”

    10. Re:Tragedy by Krau+Ming · · Score: 1

      The release of the CX-5 may end up being very opportunistic, given that Toyota will no longer be the automobile of choice for environmentally-conscious Wookies and bounty-hunters:

      http://www.geekologie.com/2010/06/just-beat-it-with-a-freakin-wr.php

    11. Re:Tragedy by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      patenting and copyrighting iTrib, for the adult market. oh it's furry alright.

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    12. Re:Tragedy by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 1

      "Come on... slow news day?"

      Hey, it was on The Colbert Show last night, so it *must* be relevant, or at least trending, or something.

      I'm not an eco-nut, but I did grow up with the original Lorax (which bears little resemblence to the previews of this movie) and I do think the marketing department went off the rails a bit with the Mazda endorsement and tie-in.

      Mind you, I'd probably have to think the same about -any- vehicle tie in that doesn't run on a sustainably grown quantity of truffala fruit.

      It's just the business of the entertainment business at some of it's worst.

    13. Re:Tragedy by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also unreadable due to poor grammar and an almost total lack of sense.

    14. Re:Tragedy by phrostie · · Score: 1

      That needs to be a sig' line

    15. Re:Tragedy by stephathome · · Score: 1

      Probably this petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/z-let-the-lorax-speak-for-the-trees - it was created by a 4th grade class.

    16. Re:Tragedy by operagost · · Score: 1

      Definitely a better use of their time than chanting about the President's love of team sports.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    17. Re:Tragedy by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      I thought it ran from the oil squeezed out of little furry creatures. My bad.

    18. Re:Tragedy by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      It has taken me decades (for I am a slow thinker), to finally solve the missing sock problem.
      The way to do it my friends, is to go Total Mono-Sock© (TMS®).
      * Throw all your socks away, use them for landfill, insulation etc.
      * Buy about 20 pairs of socks, all of the same colour and manufacturer.
      * Laugh as the sock pixies steal or genetically re-engineer one of them with biros, usb sticks, staples, thumbtacks and other stuff you know you have but have mysteriously dissappeared as it just doesn't matter anymore. You will always find another sock.
      There are other advantages. You don't need to pair the socks anymore. You can just toss one away if it gets holed.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    19. Re:Tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      on /., font is more important than grammar and sense.

    20. Re:Tragedy by davewoods · · Score: 1

      I just... I mean... do people not normally do this already?
      I consistently buy identical socks specifically in order to avoid the missing sock problem.
      Since all of them are identical (No favorite type) they all get equal wear and tear, so they all get holes in them at roughly the same time. Then I go out and buy 15 more pairs of socks, and use the old ones for things involving hiking/mud/outdoor work.

      Is that not normal behavior? Because it always made sense to me, and I have been doing that since I was a small child.
      Or maybe I am just bland enough to not want unique socks. I guess it really says something about how bland I am if I have gone on this long about socks on a tech news website.

  3. I cringed when I saw the trailers by John3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Lorax was was of my favorite books by Dr. Seuss. I was a regular participant in "Read Aloud" days at our local elementary school, and when I had a choice of the book this is the one I selected to read. It was a simple story, well illustrated, and enjoyable.

    Obviously to stretch the story to a feature length film the writers had to include additional story elements, but it just looks SO busy. I wish they would stop destroying these classics, but I guess Hollywood is grasping for ideas and hoped to trade off nostalgia for this story and lure parents to the theater with their children. Pick up the book instead, read it to your kids, and discuss.

    --
    "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
    1. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by batquux · · Score: 1

      It looks like they changed the Lorax' character. The previews show him acting more like the Cat in the Hat.

    2. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      Rapping chipmunks will be the order of the day.

    3. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by bughunter · · Score: 3, Funny

      I am really not certain at all whether there's a misspelling in your post or not...

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    4. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subtle, but brilliant.
      So long and thanks for all the lulz.

    5. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I always liked "If I Ran the Zoo," even though I have no clue who "Gerold" is.

    6. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Prevert.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      I think so Brain, but who gets all the gifts that the chipmunks wrap?

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    8. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      I've recently found the Cat in the Hat to be far more entertaining if I read it as if the protagonist were being driven slowly insane.

      My son seems to like that rendition better too ;)

    9. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by geekoid · · Score: 1

      As do I. I even have a first printing.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    10. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is, I originally read that as "Brian", so it sort of makes sense coming out of both Stewie's and Pinky's mouths.

    11. Re:I cringed when I saw the trailers by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I like "zoo" because the protagonist's name is mcgrew, and it was the very first use of the word "nerd."

  4. No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is the lite version of the super-pimping that Santa has had to endure forever. I look forward to Mickey Mouse coming out of copyright protection myself.

    As a parent it's pretty offensive to see the ads that get wrapped up with these characters, but TV sucks anyway so it's just a race to the bottom IMO.

    1. Re:No surprise by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I look forward to Mickey Mouse coming out of copyright protection myself.

      Me too. I am so looking forward to Mickey Mouse as a drug-addicted former child star who beats Minnie Mouse, makes a pornographic movie and ends up choking in his own vomit.

      I've been working on the screenplay since 1996. Miramax keeps turning me down for some reason. But as soon as the Mouse is out of copyright, I'm going straight to Searchlight.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:No surprise by jythie · · Score: 1

      Why do I see a family guy cut-scene in that idea.....

    3. Re:No surprise by tmarsh86 · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously think Mickey Mouse will ever go out of copyright? Disney won't ever let that happen. They will keep pushing for longer and longer copyright windows until it's forever. They've been pretty successful at it so far.

    4. Re:No surprise by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 1

      Make sure to consult your sources:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_the_Cat_(film)

    5. Re:No surprise by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

      I look forward to Mickey Mouse coming out of copyright protection myself.

      Mickey Mouse is NEVER coming out of copyright protection. Every time that event has gotten close Disney simply has their shills in the government extend the copyright term. According to the Supreme Court, as long as the term is "forever minus 1 day" it fits the constitutional requirement for copyright terms of a limited duration.

      --

      Enigma

    6. Re:No surprise by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      According to the Supreme Court [wikipedia.org], as long as the term is "forever minus 1 day" it fits the constitutional requirement for copyright terms of a limited duration.

      All right, how about we just stop this charade and end copyright at 'heat death of the universe' and quit all of this shilly-shallying?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:No surprise by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      It would be FAR more beneficial to mankind to scrap the entire system and start over.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you realize that that's never going to happen if disney has it's way

    9. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like this?

      http://www.ep.tc/realist/74/12.html.

    10. Re:No surprise by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Copyright may expire (but count on some politicians magically passing a bill extending it even farther when Disney feels threatened), but trademarks are forever... Mickey Mouse is a Disney trademark, and always will be.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    11. Re:No surprise by geekoid · · Score: 1

      So, the Bobby Brown story then?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps someone should send them on a remedial math course. If infinity - 1 = infinity, then forever - 1 day is still "forever". Nice try, you ignorant, purchased, lawmaking crooks.

      In protest, go pirate a disney movie.

    13. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've been pretty successful at it so far.

      So much so that at law school our IP lecturer promulgated the Mickey Mouse "Law": Whenever Mickey Mouse is about to go out of copyright a new extension of the term will be enacted.

    14. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mickey Mouse is a Disney trademark, and always will be.

      It may be, but that's a separate issue to the fact that it is copyright. Obviously a trademark couldn't stop another company from making a Mickey Mouse film for example. Disney want to stop anyone from using the image period, not merely from using the image as a trademark.

    15. Re:No surprise by gfxguy · · Score: 1
      Yes, of course... that's what a trademark is. You can't (and won't ever, as long as Disney exists) put Mickey Mouse on a T-Shirt unless you get permission from Disney, and it has nothing to do with copyrights - and the right of the trademark will continue as long as the company does.

      Steamboat Willie, on the other hand, will eventually fall out of copyright and people will be able to copy and distribute it without Disney's permission, but if someone advertises they have it for sale (or free) using Mickey Mouse's likeness without permission, Disney will still be able to sue... people distributing it will have to make it clear they are not, and are in no way associate with, Disney.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
  5. What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't they the same thing?

    1. Re:What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Kinda... and kinda not.

      The difference is like the difference between butterflies and moths; frogs and toads. Sometimes it is easy to tell the difference- sometimes it isn't- and sometimes the common name "shrimp" or "prawn" for a species is technically incorrect.

      Frequently people call larger species "prawn" and smaller species "shrimp". This isn't always true.

      Also, shape of gills is sometimes used- but this isn't always accurate. Sometimes which leg has the dominant pinchers is used- again this isn't always accurate.

      The only truly accurate way to determine if a species is shrimp or prawn is to look at it's DNA. They are both decapods, (like lobster, crayfish, etc), but they diverged a way back.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Prawns are larger, and have shells arranged such that the thorax overlaps the head, like that of a lobster.

      Shrimps are smaller and the shell of the head overlaps that of the thorax.

      But both are larger than your penis.

    3. Re:What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The difference is like the difference between butterflies and moths; frogs and toads. Sometimes it is easy to tell the difference- sometimes it isn't

      The rules of thumb I've learned are pretty easy. If it holds its wings vertically at rest, and has smooth antennae, it's a butterfly. If it holds its wings flat at rest, and has furry antennae, it's a moth.

      Frogs are smooth and slimey, live in water, and have protruding eyes on the top of their head to see from under the water. Toads have dry warty skin, can survive away from bodies of water, and their eyes are more internal.

      Using these rules, I've never seen a butterfly, moth, frog, or toad that was hard to classify. I'm curious if they exist though. Examples?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You systematic biologists make everything too complicated:

      1. Animal
      2. Plant
      3. Tissue Culture

      Much easier.

      from your friends in the lab.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:What's the deal with prawns and shrimps? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Yeah usually moths are said to be nocturnal, have clubbed antennae and dull colours. I couldn't remember the exceptions to the rules- but wikipedia comes to the rescue:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_butterflies_and_moths

      Explains exceptions to all the rules.

      Regarding frogs- and toads- no I don't remember the specifics- although I do recall reading that there is no rule which was 100% unviolate between them that says this is a frog and this is a toad. Toads technically are a subset of frogs.

      Most frogs don't actually live in water- although they do prefer damp or humid conditions.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  6. Re:News for Nerds by ryanov · · Score: 4, Funny

    "To whom."

  7. Earlier Suess by Mikkeles · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Early in his career, Geisel drew copy for FLIT (a particularly noxious insect spray) advertising; I wonder if that is what drove him to create such an uncompromising Lorax.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    1. Re:Earlier Suess by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 4, Informative

      A few years ago I saw some of his political cartoons. It was kind of odd seeing cartoons in the style of Suess but targeted to adults.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:Earlier Suess by WiiVault · · Score: 1

      Very cool. Never saw those- thanks!

    3. Re:Earlier Suess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My aunt recently came across some Seuss-illustrated military emergency guides that my grandfather had saved from WWII. Incredibly cool.

  8. Don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This movie will be forgotten in five years, whereas the book will remain. Just keep your damn kids away from the movie.

    1. Re:Don't worry about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Should be "Just keep your kids away from the DAMNED movie!"

    2. Re:Don't worry about it by bughunter · · Score: 1

      And my lawn...

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    3. Re:Don't worry about it by Chakra5 · · Score: 1

      perhaps you don't know the kids in question?

      --
      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.--Mark Twain
    4. Re:Don't worry about it by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I don't know about your potato headed children but my children can understand that a books and movies are different, and can enjoy each for different qualities.

      If a movie destroy your children ability to also enjoy a high quality book, you might want to see an expert. Checking the backyard for tortured animals might also be required.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Don't worry about it by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

      ...And if you are a regular contributor to Slashdot, that won't be a problem:

      They don't have Girlfriends, much less kids!

  9. So... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Funny

    Advertisers Co-Opting The Lorax With Half-Truths About Conservation

    So about 50% more truth than usual then?

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:So... by Chrondeath · · Score: 2

      They normally tell a third of the truth?

    2. Re:So... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:So... by StillAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Yes, but only half the time.

  10. Not a Disney film! by ahecht · · Score: 4, Informative

    Disney has nothing to do with The Lorax. Like How the Grinch Stole Christmas and The Cat in the Hat, this is a Universal Pictures film. It is being produced by Universal's Illumination Entertainment, the same studio that did Despicable Me and Hop.

    1. Re:Not a Disney film! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've managed to bring an Apple jab into a non tech story. You have been awarded 4000 forever-alone-bitter-internet-troll points!

    2. Re:Not a Disney film! by jythie · · Score: 2

      *waits patiently for a car analogy*

    3. Re:Not a Disney film! by thejuliano · · Score: 1

      Seriously... they can't even get the facts straight. You're right this is NOT a disney film, it's Universal. I'm a disney geek I'd know, but IMDB will back us up. Oh, and they've butchered the story, but that's another story.

    4. Re:Not a Disney film! by The+Moof · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's like you've just won a rusted out 1992 Geo Metro with a broken radio.

    5. Re:Not a Disney film! by residieu · · Score: 1

      It was exciting to see a new animation studio to compete with Pixar and Dreamworks. Sad that after (the excellent) Despicable Me all they've done is garbage.

    6. Re:Not a Disney film! by wintercolby · · Score: 2

      Now listen here, Anonymous Coward
      We present to you this marvelous award:
      For trolling on Apple and Anti Disney gibe
      You have earned the right to buy a Mazda CX-5

      --
      Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
    7. Re:Not a Disney film! by silverglade00 · · Score: 1

      Dude, THERE'S my car!!

    8. Re:Not a Disney film! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      That would be Pixar.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  11. ETDs run rampant by halfkoreanamerican · · Score: 1

    I think the Lorax, by no fault of his own, has prostituted himself to the general public in hopes of raising awareness... too bad it is awareness of Environmentally Transmitted Dieses (ETDs).

  12. Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The CX-5 is capable of moving 5 adults comfortably w/ cargo @ 35MPG or .006 gallons (about .7 oz) per person per mile, that seems pretty damn efficient to me....what's the standard for "fuel efficient"

    1. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Defenestrar · · Score: 2

      My commuter van does 15 adults w/ work gear @ 13.2 MPG (and doesn't change much depending on load, lights, A/C, or traffic speed; probably unlike the CX-5). That works out to 192 person-miles per gallon (0.005 gallons per person-mile) at full person load. It's also much closer to passenger capacity than any SUV (or hybrid, electric, or alternate fuel vehicle) than I see on the road during commute or non-commuter times.

      35 MPG is pretty awesome for a SUV, but the simple fact is that most purchases of this vehicle type are a mistake if you base the decision on actual vehicle usage (even a typical person's winter driving would be better done in a Subaru hatchback, sedan, or wagon; and wagons and minivans do better MPG and cargo). The main advantage of SUV's are their clearance - even the mass is only a tradeoff between the kinetic advantage in a two car and the high center leading to single car accidents. Now SUV's are awesome for their niche, but they are almost exclusively used outside of that niche when another vehicle would have been a better choice. If someone wants to make an environmentally influenced vehicle decision they should shoot for the lightest mass, most fuel efficient, vehicle which provides for their year round driving needs that does not have a massive battery and has been produced in a zero-landfill facility.

      If safety is a concern, one should look at the probability of accident type for their driving environment (single car, rear ending, etc...) and make sure to pick the higher ratings from the crash testing, while not forgetting that those ratings are for in-class vehicles. For the most part adding mass is the number one safety feature (in the US auto-demographic) and is directly in conflict with environmental considerations.

    2. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The main advantage of SUV's [sic] are their clearance

      Actually, the main advantages of SUVs are that they allow you to buy a station wagon without getting the "I'm a suburban drone" vibe that goes with a station wagon, and that they are classified as light trucks by the federal government, enabling them to bypass many of the environmental regulations imposed on cars.

    3. Re:Define fuel efficient. by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I've noticed that wagons have almost disappeared. I've got a Mazda6 and it's been great, but they aren't being produced any longer and that seems to be a trend among all automakers. They want you to by crossovers.

      I live in the upper Midwest and probably will buy as fuel-efficient an AWD crossover as I can find for my next vehicle. I am tall as are the kids, so I need a bigger vehicle with ample legroom in the 2nd row.

    4. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      While I do agree that most people buy SUVs is because they need a station wagon or mini van but don't want the stigma there are a few people who buy them to actually do things that require that type of vehicle (trucks also work). Granted they don't look pristine but they work great for right tasks. I put about 3,000 miles a year on my beat up Jeep (previously it was a Bronco II) but that is doing stuff like going hunting, camping, fishing, hauling materials, and pulling stumps. There are a number of places where I end up fording a river to continue on the road, and large portion of the "roads" I go down in it are only passable in a vehicle with high clearance and 4 wheel drive. I don't even do off roading or mudding like one of my neighbors does. It doesn't get good gas mileage, has a higher center of gravity than I like, is quite beat up, but 4 wheel drive with posi differentials is great in bad weather and on questionable roads. I even have a tow rope and have pulled people out of ditches a number of times.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    5. Re:Define fuel efficient. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      The problem, obviously, is that 99.9997% of SUV's / 4WD pickups never make it further off road than an occasional curb or mailbox. They are wonderful and impressive tools if you actually need to do something off a developed road, but for most folks, it's just a bizarre status symbol.

      Oh, and if you don't have a Warn winch, you're just posing....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Define fuel efficient. by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      At least for me, buying a SUV means that I can pull a 1300lbs boat, haul gear inside without it getting wet, throw a spare tire up on the roof for when I do go off road (camp road is a dirt track through the woods), and have a safe vehicle with AWD in the snow, sleet, etc. that we get in the Northeast. I can only afford one vehicle and, since it's just me, I only need one vehicle. Granted, I use it for commuting 95% of the time, but for the other 5% other vehicle types just wont do. I get about 23MPG for highway driving, which is pretty good.

      My biggest concern is that, with the mandated fleet fuel efficiency standards, car manufacturers are being forced to move from V6 engines in mid-sized SUVs to supercharged V4 engines. People who haul boats will have very little choice for their next SUV other than to either buy from the limited number of V6 mid-sized or go to a full-sized SUV, which would be even less fuel efficient. No matter how much they trick out V4 engines, they just are not built to handle the stress and provide the power needed for towing.

    7. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I actually do have a Warn winch and have used it to clear fallen trees from some of the roads I use. I always chuckle at some of the pavement pounders I see, my favorites are the H2s with a winch but they have 24 inch rims with spinners and all chrome suspension but not a speck of dust on them. My 4 door sedan has seen more off road usage than most people's 4WD vehicles but I needed to get a real off road vehicle since I was breaking lots of parts and getting it high and centered.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    8. Re:Define fuel efficient. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      So I assume you never run your vehicle unless every seat is taken by a passenger?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can do everything you just listed in my 1996 Subaru Outback, which gets ~30 highway, so apparently other vehicle types WILL do. The new ones do slightly better thanks to the addition of a CVT (though I don't know anything about how those will or won't hold up if used to tow frequently). Audi also makes a couple of AWD wagons that get ~30+ on the highway.

      23 MPG is only "pretty good" if you're looking through the lens of "all vehicles are trucks". It's actually quite bad for most anything that's not a status-symbol car.

    10. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If you use it to transport multiple people. However there are many SUVs on the road with only a single commuter. I'd even say the majority of SUVs are this way.

      I have seen this odd trend though of hyping up non-existent fuel economy lately. Ie, large engine pickup Brand A is compared large engine pickup Brand B and one advantage listed was 19 MPG vs 18 MPG. That's just absurd. If your mileage is so awful as 19 MPG I'd keep quiet about it. Maybe the consumers just aren't that bright? I also see mid range sedans marketed as "green" 27 MPG. Certainly better mileage than many but still bad compared to a real economy car. It's like trying to get someone to date your sister by saying "her personality has been improving".

    11. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hatches are getting more popular though. There's a bunch of subcompact hatches that are selling pretty well (at least up here in Canada), and there are the compact hatches as well. It's interesting.

      I am tall as are the kids, so I need a bigger vehicle with ample legroom in the 2nd row.

      How tall? I'm 6'1". My mother recently purchased a new Elantra; though I haven't driven it, I've ridden as a passenger in both the front and rear, and there's tons of space in both. There's also almost as much cargo space as the Focus hatch. I imagine the Sonata has even more passenger and cargo room. I really can't see why you'd have to go with a crossover.

      I personally drive a Honda Fit, and while I'm not wanting for room, rear passenger space is quite a bit tighter; I can't imagine cramming older kids in it.

    12. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      ... Oh, and if you don't have a Warn winch, you're just posing....

      Forget the winch, most of them still have new paint on the hitch, and that's the SUV owners who even have one installed.

    13. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're one of the rare minorities who use the vehicle for its designed purpose. I used to be in that category, but work took me to the city and so I eventually replaced the thing with a sedan (a newer Subaru Legacy - which has the best handling in snow for any vehicle that I've ever driven (well traditional street legal anyway). Clearance is the only issue, but it has a good skid plate and with careful control over one's momentum...). I wish I lived closer to the fun places (i.e. those with a significantly lower population density).

    14. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The outback was somewhat recently reclassified as a SUV, I think it was in 2010 when it also took the Motor Trend SUV of the year award. But yes - some of them are decent at towing, but you usually get even more out-massed by the towed object than a SUV is to a truck; makes good driving/towing skills that much more important.

    15. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      Not at all. Despite your logical fallacy (ad hominem) I will attempt to clarify that specific point of my discussion: potential person-miles is often not an accurate representation for a vehicle's average person-miles. Thus one should be cautious when using potential person-miles to rate the environmental aspects of a vehicle. It has been my observation, on the roads that I frequent, that there is a statistical difference between certain vehicle types and the fraction of occupied seats. (Some generalizations of this might follow a pattern like: dedicated commuter vehicles are high, public transit off peak hours are low, family vehicles are moderate, SUV's are low, working trucks are moderate, economy cars are low, etc...).

    16. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      It's like trying to get someone to date your sister by saying "her personality has been improving".

      You nearly made me spit the water out of my mouth! Well said.

    17. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "pull a 1300lbs boat"

      Are you having a laugh?

      1300lbs is only 600kgs. Which is only 7 average people...why do I point this out? Because most cars on the road, regardless of size, can drive around quite happily with 4 people in them. Once you beef it up a little, you can take 6 or 7 people with you. I used to drive an old kombi van with a 2L engine, that could carry 8 people around with no difficulty.

      The point I'm making is that boats are light (they float, remember?) and you DO NOT NEED a FUCKING SUV to haul a boat. Society says you do. People think they do. But no, a normal, modern sedan with a good engine can haul most boats any place you want.

      Go on. Try it. I dare you...

    18. Re:Define fuel efficient. by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Hatches are getting more popular though.

      I must admit I was amazed when I was living in America at how unpopular hatchbacks were compared to their equivalent sedan variants. It took me weeks to find a decent one for sale (somewhat hobbled by my wife insisting on an automatic).

      I cannot comprehend why anyone would buy a (for example) Mazda 3 sedan over a hatchback. The hatchback is so much more practical and sacrifices nothing.

    19. Re:Define fuel efficient. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see AWD as being useful/necessary in some locations, and having a fairly LWB and highish mass is good for towing.

      I don't see why a V6 would be necessary -- over here in the old country we can get reasonably priced saloons/estates (sedan, station wagon) with 4 cylinder 2L engines that produce 115-140 bhp and 175-250 lb ft (torque being more relevant to towing than power), and can tow 1500-2000 kg (3300 lb++) of braked trailer, while still getting 45-50 mpg solo and 35+ mpg while towing.

      Of course they are turbodiesels and manual (stick shift), neither of which seem popular in the US...

  13. Meet the Feebles by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    You might like "Meet the Feebles" then. It is a New Zealand made parody based on a very disfunctional muppet-like group.

    Your above comment sounds like a story-line from something in Meet the Feebles.

    Incidentally- the producer was... ahem... Peter Jackson, the guy behind the Lord Of The Rings film adaptations, The Hobbit, King Kong, The Frighteners, etc. Before he became famous he had some really strange, bizarre and humorous productions. "Dead Alive" is one of my all-time favourite movies.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Meet the Feebles by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      The happy cheerful Muppets that we are all familiar with is not what Jim Henson was after. His earlier works were more violent and darker but involved the beloved Muppets.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:Meet the Feebles by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't know if that counts as darker. Violent yes, but it's still slapstick. The emotion is still light and happy.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Meet the Feebles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Peter Jackson sold out, just like the Lorax. Excellent point.

    4. Re:Meet the Feebles by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      You might like "Meet the Feebles" then.

      Loved it. Back when Peter Jackson was a transgressive filmmaker.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Meet the Feebles by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 1

      If he keeps making films like The Lord of the Rings and King Kong just let him keep on selling.

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
    6. Re:Meet the Feebles by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      This one is good! Originally from Avenue Q muppets but I like this version better.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
  14. A "half-truth" is a whole lie. by Coreigh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When any version of a truth is used to deceive it is nothing more than a lie.

    --



    "Waitress I need two more boat-drinks..."
    1. Re:A "half-truth" is a whole lie. by phrostie · · Score: 1

      well said.

      may i steal that?

    2. Re:A "half-truth" is a whole lie. by GlennC · · Score: 1

      If you don't mind, I'd like to use that line as my signature.

      --
      Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
  15. Adults need to grow up by concealment · · Score: 2

    "Compromise" cannot be a mode of thinking or you never end up with a bottom line. Some things, like nuclear war and avoiding environmental catastrophe, are optional decisions. We need to get them right because the consequences are real and will be absolute. If we define maturity as an intention to "compromise" on important issues, I want no part of maturity.

    1. Re:Adults need to grow up by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      "Compromise" cannot be a mode of thinking or you never end up with a bottom line. Some things, like nuclear war and avoiding environmental catastrophe, are optional decisions. We need to get them right because the consequences are real and will be absolute. If we define maturity as an intention to "compromise" on important issues, I want no part of maturity.

      Spoken like one of our politicians (it matters not which party). Never compromise with the enemy, we are against everything they say! Filibuster, blockade, shut down the government! We can never even hint that the other side might have a valid point in this argument!

      Now lets try it with compromise:
      You are right, some things can never be compromised on. But to say you must never compromise, or that every belief you hold is paramount is too extreme. Adults need to learn that they are not little children that must get their way no matter what or they will cry and take their ball and go home. I want no part of that immaturity.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    2. Re:Adults need to grow up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing he didn't say anything like what you're implying.

    3. Re:Adults need to grow up by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Never compromise with the enemy, we are against everything they say! Filibuster, blockade, shut down the government! We can never even hint that the other side might have a valid point in this argument!

      The more Filibustering, blockading, government shut downs, the better. Gridlock keeps the politicians from legislating everything.

  16. I need new rear window sticker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who's gonna make my sticker with Lorax (ala Calvin) pissing on the Mazda logo?

  17. Lou Dobbs and Fox News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fuck those people. You have a propaganda film out now that every conservative dickweed should be able to enjoy. Act of Valor, the one starring real soldiers, using live ammunition, and overseen by the Pentagon. Stop bitching that other people have what you also have.

    1. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      This dickweed is hoping to enjoy it. I've gotta wait till it comes out on DVD, though. I'm too tight to pay the $10 to see it in the theater.

    2. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by operagost · · Score: 1

      That's funny... I always hear progressives saying they also support our troops. Are you telling me I'm wrong, and only "conservative dickweeds" do?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    3. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, progressives support our troops. But conservatives fetishize our troops to the point where a movie like "Act of Valor" seems to them some great expression of troop support, when it's really kind of a sick, exploitative propaganda film. I'm a progressive, and I support our troops: I'd like to bring them back to the US, so they don't get killed in foreign countries where we had no business going in the first place. Soldiering involves sacrifice, but I think that if we're to ask our troops to sacrifice themselves, then it should be for a good reason, and not because Bush had a burr up his ass about Iraq.

    4. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Support your troops is not the same thing as using propaganda to increase enlistment numbers.
      IT's not the same thing as supporting the idea of sending them to war.

      The same assholes who have changed 'suppot you troops' to be 'Support whatever decision the government has decided to do you the troops, or else you are a terrorist.'

      I support the troops. Use diplomacy to prevent combat, give them all the best possible gear, use them sparingly, don't use them to settle internal conflicts in other nations.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by khallow · · Score: 1

      I'd like to bring them back to the US, so they don't get killed in foreign countries where we had no business going in the first place.

      I imagine those conservatives agree. They just have a different opinion on what "business" is.

    6. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There's this myth out there that America is weak and has gone soft due to liberal panty waists and the like. Silly stuff. Thus electioneering slogans like "take back out country" resonate despite us not actually being occupied by an invading power intent on our destruction. So the soldier who is actually fighting is treated as a symbol of strength. Whereas a soldier kept alive by being brought back home is treated as weakness. It's more just ridiculousness. To be honest I think the pro war folks are just as worshipful of martyrs as those on the other side who train suicide bombers.

    7. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      That's funny... I always hear progressives saying they also support our troops. Are you telling me I'm wrong, and only "conservative dickweeds" do?

      "Conservative" dickweeds support the arms industry.

      The promise the troops an elevator, but only give them the shaft.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    8. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Conservatives* support the troops until they come home and become veterans. After that they're on their own.

      *Not all conservatives are this way but I've met plenty who are.

    9. Re:Lou Dobbs and Fox News by lennier · · Score: 1

      That's funny... I always hear progressives saying they also support our troops. Are you telling me I'm wrong, and only "conservative dickweeds" do?

      You're probably wrong, yes, though I'm afraid you might be right in this case. I'd hope that progressives would always be courageous enough to refuse to support their troops when those troops are doing something bad. Yet American progressives seem terrified of "disrespecting the troops".

      Troops aren't fuzzy stuffed toys. Troops are weapons. Their job is to break forcibly into other people's countries and mess up their lives and property. To say you "support" your favoured weapon is like saying "I support my gun. My gun is very important to me! I give my gun lots of love and respect! Don't you love my gun too? I suspect you of being insufficiently supportive of my gun! My poor gun, nobody understands how much it loves me!"

      That's... um, a weird thing to be sensitive about, quite frankly. Shouldn't you be more concerned with the person you're currently pointing your gun at, and the pile of corpses who have already been introduced to it?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  18. What has the poor Lorax become? by madhatter256 · · Score: 3, Informative

    A corporate sellout....

    --
    Previewing comments are for sissies!
    1. Re:What has the poor Lorax become? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      And there we have the crux of the matter.

      Someone's estate sold the rights to make the film. They also sold the rights to use the character for advertising products.

      Put the blame where it belongs: on the people who did the selling out.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  19. Furor about the conservation... not the co-opt by bughunter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Advertisers Co-opting The Lorax

    No shit? Beloved character reduced to shill by Hollywood?? You don't say? That really would be news. NOT.

    With Half-truths

    [clutches heart] Ohmygod. I'm going to faint. Advertisers stretching the truth to market their product. The horror! [beat] This is news?

    About Conservation

    [pause]

    [pause]

    I see what you did there.

    Tell me, if Mr. Lorax had been shanghai'ed into being a spokesman for toothpaste, toys, or floor wax, would this be a story? No. This story just fans the flames of the culture wars. Whoever started this meme knew that the word "Conservation" and the phrase "liberal propaganda" would propagate the meme with his target audience, who likes to get all a-quiver and indignant and victimized when mass media propagate memes they disagree with.

    --
    I can see the fnords!
    1. Re:Furor about the conservation... not the co-opt by elgo · · Score: 2

      OK, you are right on the money. It is still worth pointing out that this abomination of a movie is not even trying to pretend to be environmentally aware in its associated marketing deals. Floor wax, etc. might be equallu environmentally unfriendly, but as you said, the shilling for an SUV gets the liberal "target audience" mad. There's nothing wrong with that, though. Advertisers and movie studios have become increasingly brazen, not even pretending to respect the ideas behind the intellectual properties they exploit. It is worthwhile to send them a message by posting about it on ./ (?)

      --
      - elgo
    2. Re:Furor about the conservation... not the co-opt by Wannabe+Code+Monkey · · Score: 1

      No shit? Beloved character reduced to shill by Hollywood?? You don't say? That really would be news. NOT.

      It's not just about a character being used to shill for a product. That's not news, that's been going on for decades (centuries?)

      Tell me, if Mr. Lorax had been shanghai'ed into being a spokesman for toothpaste, toys, or floor wax, would this be a story? No. This story just fans the flames of the culture wars. Whoever started this meme knew that the word "Conservation" and the phrase "liberal propaganda" would propagate the meme with his target audience, who likes to get all a-quiver and indignant and victimized when mass media propagate memes they disagree with.

      Dude, take a deep breath. Relax. The point of the article was that the Lorax stands staunchly against pollution and he's being used to sell something that pollutes quite a bit. Yes, it pollutes less than the competition, but still way more than walking, biking, public transportation, or just keeping your old car. It's the height of hypocrisy for a car company to claim that the Lorax would be on their side. It wouldn't have been news if he were a spokesman for toothpaste because the Lorax isn't fanatically anti-toothpaste.

      This kind of greenwashing has been going on for years now. In commercials cars drive by and flowers and trees pop up in its wake, as if the flowers prefer the slightly (instead of very) polluted air that the new car generates rather than the completely clean air that was hanging around a second before the car drove through. These cars are in no way 'good for the environment'. They are less bad for the environment than their competition, but the marketing makes it seem like these cars suck CO2 and pollutants from the air and clean the environment as they drive by. That's bad enough, but what they did to the Lorax is just forehead slappingly wrong. Imagine the furor if some company took the image and voice of John Wayne and made him say things completely antithetical to what he really believed, have him advocate for more welfare and entitlement programs, and say that he's glad the North Vietnamese won the Vietnam War.

      --
      We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
    3. Re:Furor about the conservation... not the co-opt by khallow · · Score: 1

      Advertisers and movie studios have become increasingly brazen, not even pretending to respect the ideas behind the intellectual properties they exploit

      I think this particular race to the bottom will be good for us. When advertisers ape widespread dogma to make a quick buck, it gets people thinking. This is something like the jesters of an earlier age hurling barbs at the assumptions and powers of their time. And in the process they sell some SUVs. Sounds like a good outcome to me.

  20. It's a thneed! by ukemike · · Score: 1

    The CX-5 (and every car for that matter) is a THNEED!

    --
    -- QED
  21. My problem with extremist environmentalists by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know this is probably going to get me flamed, but my biggest problem with the more extremist environmentalists out there (aside for their propensity for wild-eyed, quasi-religious Chicken Little alarmism) is that they often jump up to protest without any real answer to the question "Well, what's a reasonable alternative?" Most of the alternatives that they do have seem more like pipe dreams to me (at least for now). Sure it would be nice to have giant solar and wind farms that could supply all our energy needs. But those things are, even in the best case scenario, decades away. The idea that we're just going to run out and start shutting down coal and nuclear plants now, with no real replacement save some *hope* for a future of wind and solar is just nuts.

    If you're going to advocate something radical, you had damn well have a pretty good answer on *how* where going to do it without throwing society into chaos. It's nice to save the environment, but we humans are part of that environment too.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're going to advocate something radical, you had damn well have a pretty good answer on *how* where going to do it without throwing society into chaos. It's nice to save the environment, but we humans are part of that environment too.

      If you're going to advocate something environmentally harmful, you had damn well better have a pretty good answer on how we're going to live that way without destroying our ecosystem. It's nice to have shiny things, but we humans can't live without the environment.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      STRAWMAN SPOTTED.

      Look, "environmentalists" are on a pretty wide spectrum. You've got your nuts, and then you've got the people who think "you know, it's probably bad that we pollute so much, let's look for cleaner and more efficient alternatives".

      Your post sounds like you fixate on the nuts so you can ignore the sane people.

    3. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're going to advocate something environmentally harmful, you had damn well better have a pretty good answer on how we're going to live that way without destroying our ecosystem. It's nice to have shiny things, but we humans can't live without the environment.

      I dunno, keep doing what we're doing? The forests are coming back, wolves are returning, acid rain has been significantly decreased, and even the Brazilian rainforest is relatively stable (growth is keeping up with cutting, although with some loss of diversity and the nutrients leach out of the soil due to high rainfall).

      So, yes, the wild eyed quasi religious environmentalists DO sound like Chicken Little to a lot of us. So now they don't like CO2, great. We've managed to address a lot of other problems pretty successfully, so we're not gonna panic. Other than throwing all of civilization into chaos, what do they suggest?

      (captcha - existing . Not making that up)

    4. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Troll

      So, yes, the wild eyed quasi religious environmentalists DO sound like Chicken Little to a lot of us. So now they don't like CO2, great. We've managed to address a lot of other problems pretty successfully, so we're not gonna panic. Other than throwing all of civilization into chaos, what do they suggest?

      I'll take this one, even though I don't know the name of the logical fallacy that you're perpetrating, and you're just an anonymous, cowardly troll. Pointing out a problem is a perfectly valid thing to do even if you don't have the solution. The forests are not coming back, although tree farms with dramatically reduced biodiversity have taken their place. Wolves are returning because of the efforts of conservationists. Acid rain has been decreased because of the efforts of conservationists. The brazilian rainforest is probably not stable, odds are that it will lose too much soil before it's recovered by vegetation, but I guess we could agree to differ on that one since the jury is still out. In essence, though, everything you said is either false or besides the point.

      When you come up with a view worthy of being less anonymous and cowardly, please return and share it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'll always have an environment. Maybe the one we are moving towards allows for the monetization of oxygen, but you know someone will come defend that fast enough.

    6. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by elgo · · Score: 1

      Wolves are returning????? Oh shit. Looks like I am turning in my environmentalist card; I don't need to be chased by wolves again!

      --
      - elgo
    7. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Wolves are returning because of the efforts of conservationists.

      I really wish they wouldn't

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      "If you're going to advocate something environmentally harmful, you had damn well better have a pretty good answer on how we're going to live that way without destroying our ecosystem"

      That's the thing. The extreme environmentalists are now claiming that CO2 is a pollutant [1] (nevermind that plants consume it while producing oxygen). That means the very act of breathing is now considered polluting the environment. So according to your statement I now have to have a damn good reason as to why I breath?

      [1] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124001537515830975.html

    9. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by tmarsh86 · · Score: 1

      The nuts are who the media focuses on and they spread their message much easier and faster than the sane people.

    10. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, another strawman, and it's even from a News Corp property!

      Nobody's saying that people should stop breathing, fuckwit. It's a fact that carbon dioxide is a pollutant in the amounts industry and transport are spewing it into the air, and that it causes global warming and ocean acidification.

    11. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Nimey · · Score: 1

      ...and this explains Limbaugh and Glenn Beck, yes?

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    12. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by _8553454222834292266 · · Score: 1

      Why? What on earth could you have against wolves? We have millions of stupid humans infesting the place and you're worried about a few more wolves?

    13. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yes. As much as I dislike people (including you :) the average wolf would be much more interested in eating me than the average person.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    14. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Why? What on earth could you have against wolves? We have millions of stupid humans infesting the place and you're worried about a few more wolves?

      Sheep don't like wolves, as a rule.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    15. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      That's the thing. The extreme environmentalists are now claiming that CO2 is a pollutant [1] (nevermind that plants consume it while producing oxygen). That means the very act of breathing is now considered polluting the environment. So according to your statement I now have to have a damn good reason as to why I breath?

      Paracelsus (1493-1531, old news)

              "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

      Yes, high concentrations of CO2 (or N2 or O2 or NOx or whatever) can be a pollutant - an undesirable chemical in an ecology. So stop breathing if you like, no skin off my nose, but if you're planning on staying alive, please, put the Wall Street Journal back under the parakeet where it belongs.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    16. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by wintercolby · · Score: 1

      Sources owned by Rupert Murdoch's Newscorp are no longer considered non-biased. Anyone could then counteract your argument citing moveon.org or a lefty publication. I do believe that regulating breathing is a good idea, though. Everyone should do it before responding to this type of FUD. No legislation necessary.

      --
      Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
    17. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      Very cute. Forget the WSJ. Get it directly from the EPA [1]. Are they right-wing? I haven't checked lately.

      My original point is that extreme environmentalists can label anything as harmful and thus restrict all human activity. It's borderline tyranny.

      [1] http://epa.gov/climatechange/endangerment.html

    18. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe so, but the average person would be more likely to kill you.

    19. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Nimey · · Score: 1

      OH NOES TYRANNY. Aaaand we've got another Internet Libertarian, folks. Don't try to reason with him; his mind's made up that anything the government does is EVIL.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    20. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by wintercolby · · Score: 1

      And I see nothing in that link that suggests that the EPA is interested in legislating, controlling or regulating human breathing. I do notice, specifically, that motor vehicles are singled out. It doesn't mention Methane gas from livestock, coal power plant emissions, or any other industrial emissions. There is no one out there trying to regulate the CO2 in the air you exhale. Motor vehicles emit far more CO2 than you do when you breathe.

      I'd say that I should have seen the WSJ link and should have remembered not to feed the trolls, but that would be an abusive ad hominem fallacy. Your argument isn't wrong because I think you're a troll. Your argument is wrong because it contains a fallacy. Your fallacy is the classic Straw Man. The EPA says CO2 from cars falls under their jurisdiction and will be regulated. You over simplify and twist that to suggest that all CO2 produced then falls under the EPA's jurisdiction. You attack the misinterpretation with your breathing example.

      --
      Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
    21. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. As much as I dislike people (including you :) the average wolf would be much more interested in eating me than the average person.

      You are far safer in an area inhabited by wolves than in most areas inhabited by humans.

    22. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's nice to save the environment, but we humans are part of that environment too.

      Which is exactly why environmentalists are environmentalists. I grew up in the '50s and '60s in Cahokia, IL just south of Sauget, which you had to drive through to get to St Louis, right past the Monsanto plant.

      The air was so bad that driving past Monsanto in Sauget before Nixon signed the Clean Air Act, despite the fact that cars didn't have AC then, you had to roll the windows up driving past, even in 100 degree heat, because if they were down you LITERALLY could not breathe -- the air burned your lungs, painfully. Vegetation in the entire area was visibly sick, more brown than green.

      Now? You might catch a whiff of bleach but that's it. The area's vegetation has come back. It took a full twenty years to recover.

      Ron Paul worshipers (I can give you kids a break but he's old enough to know better) say "oh but the courts will take care of it." Nope, if the courts could have taken care of it there would be no EPA, as it would not have been necessary.

      Ron Paul is not a libertarian. Libertarians believe that your right to swing your fist ends before the start of my nose. You have NO RIGHT whatever to ruin my air or water just so you can earn a few more million of billion dollars.

      Advocate something radical? The EPA was pretty damned radical in 1970, and your Lord and Savior Ron Paul wants to abolish it. You know what's radical? Nitwits who want to abolish the EPA.

      Here's a radical idea -- don't fucking drive an F-150 ir similar unless you have a construction company, and then only drive it when it's needed. Don't do your goddamned shopping in one of those damned behemoths. And Hummers? Those monstrosities should all be scrapped. Nobody but the Army has any real use for them. Ruining the environment so you'll look like you don't have a little dick is just wrong.

      If you can afford the gas for one of these hogs you can afford to pay for your pollution.

    23. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The is nothing wrong with seeing a problem and saying 'this needs to change, even if you don'y have the expertise to provide a solution.

      What they should not to is back the first 'solution' that pops into there head, or appeals to emotion.

      Sorry, but I hate the 'if you don't have a solution, then don't point out a problem' mentality.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    24. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Your post sounds like you fixate on the nuts so you can ignore the sane people.

      I don't have a problem with the sane people.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    25. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      your Lord and Savior Ron Paul wants to abolish it.

      Ha, you don't know me very well. The current crop of Republicans and Libertarians scare the shit out of me. But I would contend that the more extreme elements of the environmental movement are actually hurting the cause way more than helping it. It's because of the extremists that someone like Ron Paul can stand up and say "See how crazy these people are?" and then use that as ammo to advocate abolishing the EPA and regulations like the Clean Air Act that we really do need.

      If the vast majority of Americans perceive environmentalism as some crazy movement made up of wild-eyed hippies who want to blow up dams then that makes it very hard for any politician to defend the kind of sane policies that we need to keep companies from dumping whatever shit into our air and water they want to increase profits. We are not well-served by those who would make environmentalism look like some kind of fringe movement.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    26. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Chakra5 · · Score: 1

      good christ....so, _some_ of the things we've had to fight tooth and nail to get done, many over spew of the same type of 2d talking points I might add, are actually working, ....soooo......that means we should ignore the really big issue somehow....??? because actually trying to address it will lead to "chaos" Explain that logic again please?

      --
      Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.--Mark Twain
    27. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just try to come up with some documented stories of wolves attacking humans for food. Go ahead. We'll wait.

      This is an urban legend propagated by hollywood and book authors. And wolves have been repeatedly decimated as a result of our desire for entertainment.

    28. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      The average wolf is more interested in avoiding you than eating you unless you're doing something stupid that makes the wolf pack think it's worth trying to take you on. When I'm out in the wilderness I'm far more concerned about grizzly bears than wolves.

    29. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So according to your statement I now have to have a damn good reason as to why I breath?

      From your comment, it looks like you don't have one.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    30. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wolves are returning because of the efforts of conservationists.

      I really wish they wouldn't

      If you go where wolves are without a bunch of other humans, take a gun. That's what put us at the top of the food chain, technology; either cooperation with other humans in ways that animals don't achieve, or military superiority through improved technology. Granted, you're not allowed to have a gun in a lot of places you'd want one, like some state parks, but if you just don't go to those places, problem solved.

      I am just not even slightly worried about wolves, because .45 ACP beats the wolf every time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    31. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Where do you live that grizzly bears are a problem?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    32. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Gun won't help you if you're asleep. I'm not too worried about wolves during the day, I can always climb a tree.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    33. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by tmarsh86 · · Score: 1

      Are they environmental extremists? Not sure I've heard of them.

    34. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      I live in Oregon which doesn't have grizzly bears but I whitewater raft in Idaho and Montana which does. Wolves are smart enough to be wary of humans and aren't likely to attack you unless you are alone and they are extremely hungry. Grizzly bears aren't afraid of anything and sometimes attack you because you don't smell right.

    35. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you don't wake up when threats arrive, you deserve to die. I mean, how many years of evolution?

      Simple fact, unless you are one of nature's true badasses, like the wolverine, you have no business running around by yourself out in the world. If you were one of nature's true badasses, you wouldn't have posted this last comment.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    36. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I would contend that the more extreme elements of the environmental movement are actually hurting the cause way more than helping it.

      I certainly can't disagree with that.

    37. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Really? When you're sleeping outside, do you wake up every time a wolf approaches you?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    38. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Really? When you're sleeping outside, do you wake up every time a wolf approaches you?

      So far, so good.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    39. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      You didn't address my point (though I must admit it was a decent zinger). You stated that the onus is on the polluter to provide a good reason as to why they need to pollute. Environmentalists and the EPA have classified CO2 as a pollutant. Therefore, everyone must provide a good reason that they breath.

      I suppose I'm being a bit pedantic, but your statement was just ludicrous and helped make the point of the original poster.

    40. Re:My problem with extremist environmentalists by AmericanGladiator · · Score: 1

      Not at all. I am a believer in the Constitution and support the functions that the people have given the government power to perform. What the environmentalists and lefties in general believe is that the government has all power and does favors for us as individuals. They've got it backwards.

  22. And... by Jiro · · Score: 2

    And normal environmental messages are not coopted by money? Of course they are. Is shilling a fuel-friendly vehicle that much worse than shilling a Prius or carbon credits?

    1. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And normal environmental messages are not coopted by money? Of course they are. Is shilling a fuel-friendly vehicle that much worse than shilling a Prius or carbon credits?

      Of course it is.

      Al Gore only gets gobs of money from carbon credits. Not from the sale of a Prius or any other less-eco-damaging* car.

      * - No car is "eco-friendly". None. Get over that asinine fallacy.

    2. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * - No *human* is "eco-friendly". None. Get over that asinine fallacy.

      FTFY

    3. Re:And... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      The most "eco-friendly" (as in less environmentally damaging, of course no car actually *improves* the environment) car is a used one that gets good MPG. The Prius can't touch a CRX Si, used VW Golf, '90s Civic, '90s Corolla or '90s Suzuki Swift (latter two also branded as Geo Metro in the US).

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:And... by tmarsh86 · · Score: 1

      Let me know when any of those vehicles get 50MPG and then you can talk about them being the most "eco-friendly".

    5. Re:And... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Certain models of the VW Golf can do that easily, and the CRX Si and Swifts (especially with the 600cc or 1L engines) should be able to do it if they're well-maintained and you don't mash the gas. All those cars can do over 40MPG if driven carefully. The CRX Si is to hypermilers as the AE86 is to drifters, they love that car and mod them to do 3-digit MPG.

      But the point is that by buying a used car you aren't spending the massive amount of energy and resources required to make a new car.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    6. Re:And... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      D'oh brainfart, CRX HF is the economy model hypermilers love, CRX Si is the sporty model autocrossers love.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    7. Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In UK/EU a reasonably priced second hand (7-10 year old) family saloon/estate (sedan, station wagon) with 4 cylinder 2L engines producing 115-140 bhp (and 175-250 lb ft) should be getting 45-50 mpg easily, and several models will break 50 mpg. So you don't even need to be limited to small cars.

      Of course they are turbodiesels and manual (stick shift), neither of which seem popular in the US...

    8. Re:And... by davesag · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair Carbon Credits, real ones that is, represent either the actual removal of greenhouse gases from the atmosphere or the verifiable prevention of greenhouse gases from entering the atmosphere, and so they do have a genuine net environmental benefit, despite what the nay-sayers would have you believe. That these credits are sold for money is part of the point. Rich countries' money is used to finance carbon abatement projects in poor countries for a variety of reasons, the primary one being that the majority of the predicted emissions growth over the next 40 years or so is going to be in the developing world and so it's vital they leap-frog the polluting technologies we in the West used to grow our wealth. Also you simply get more environmental bang for your buck by building wind-farms in Bangladesh vs Boston.

      --
      I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
  23. Conservatives are complaining about no compromise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Quite ironic coming from the party that counts "no compromise" religious absolutists and TEA party politicians as their base.

  24. Clue: Hollywood is commercial by binkless · · Score: 1

    To be in a feature film is to volunteer for commercial use. Don't expect Hollywood to change its stripes to save the purity of the Lorax.

  25. Whenever you want a childhood memory destroyed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get Disney to make a film out of it.

    Or Lucas

  26. What "The Lorax" Shared With His WW2 Cartooning by Scareduck · · Score: 1

    Theodor Seuss Geisel was good at condensing something to a caricature of reality, and environmentalism was no exception. Like his World War 2 cartoons, which in the case of the Japanese were unremittingly racist, the Lorax's enemy became unrecognizable. Who, really, needs a "thneed"? This was obvious to me even as a child. I knew that people built houses and published newspapers from forest products. By eliding those things, Seuss managed to condense an entire string of arguments down to one easy-to-digest -- but wholly false -- narrative. For that reason, I have always rated The Lorax as the least of his children's books.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:What "The Lorax" Shared With His WW2 Cartooning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its a pretty simply written book, I suggest you read it again slowly if you missed the point.

      The enemies of the Lorax were the destroyers of the Truffula trees, namely the Once-ler family and their Thneed clients. The question of who needs a Thneed is the study of marketing, or creating a need where none exists.

      People build houses out of wood, not Truffula tufts. The point is that forests need to be managed, or did you cheer when the last Truffula tree was chopped down?

      The 'Lorax' story is about the rape of the environment, in this example to the point where a resource is exhausted to the loss of an entire industry. Why do you think this is a false narrative? Have you not heard of the Atlantic Cod fishery, or maybe any of the dozens of other species of marine wildlife which has been nearly wiped out by overfishing?

  27. Simple answer. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2

    This is Hollywood, why is anyone surprised that a beloved character would be whore'd out? This movie wasn't produced to teach environmentalism, this movie was produced to capitalize on a timely theme and the popularity of Dr. Seuss.

    But then, the answer here is simple. If you take issue with what they've done don't watch the movie. Don't go to the theater and definitely don't buy or rent the DVD. Once you hand your money over you've effectively told the movie company that they've made the right decision.

    It would have been more appropriate to use the Once-Ler to peddle the SUV.

  28. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

    If you shove your head further up your arse and do a little flip through the 4th dimension, you might end up in a Klein bottle configuration.

    --
    Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
  29. Capitalism by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    ...doesn't understand "classy" or "tactful." If you're a celebrity your digitally reanimated self will be used to sell shit long after you're dead, and who knows what else. I fully expect to see Marilyn Monroe in a commercially released porno before I have any trouble getting a hardon.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  30. Re:News for Nerds by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

    Yes, pollution is the cause of a lot of chronic ailments, so to answer your question I would say that this certainly matters to the World Health Organization..

  31. Sad by residieu · · Score: 1

    I was already put off by the previews, which make it seem likely they intend to throw out the ending of the original (things are bad, but maybe, just maybe, they can get better) to replace it with a traditional happy ending.

    I love my Mazda, but I'm almost ashamed of that commercial. Sure a hybrid is "better" than a traditional car of the same size (depending on construction and disposal of the battery...), but I still doubt the Lorax would "speak for the trees" and advocate cars of any kind.

  32. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    The fact that my post was demoted to '0' and yours was modded a '2' does more to prove my original point than any words. Have a nice day.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  33. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He wasn't modded up, he has a +1 karma bonus for past, positively-modded contributions. You can toggle-off bonuses in your settings.

  34. Nicely done Mazda! by Krau+Ming · · Score: 2

    brainwashing my kid to want to drive your CX-5. unfortunately by the time he's old enough to drive, it will probably be out of production.

    1. Re:Nicely done Mazda! by WiiVault · · Score: 2

      Good point, however I think they are more interested in the captive audience of parents who see the film with their kids. Getting the Mazda name into kid's heads is just a nice by product.

  35. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Nimey · · Score: 1

    Don't let reality get in the way of his narrative that conservatives are victims.

    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  36. Stop looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    at my penis.
    --
    My eyes are up here.

  37. liberal propaganda by celle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Dude refuses to give an inch"

        Then he's no liberal. If you look around the stubborn ones are the "my way or no way" republicans. The liberals and the centrists are the ones that have been giving ground the last 18 years. That's why the country is so fucked up with a constitution that's a joke and a dysfunctional regulatory system allowing public to be raped by corporations.

    1. Re:liberal propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no two party system. the "republicans" you refer to are those idiots who have a different mascot than the "democrats" who do the exact same fucking thing. The "my way or no way" are those idiots supporting ACTA/SOPA/PIPA... and that is a bi-partisan tactic to make you THINK anyone who doesn't lock-step with your bias and ideology is "an enemy" while the REAL problem of corporatism occurs (along with the dismantling of liberty.) If you think Obama is any different than Bush, you're part of the problem... and you perpetuate the corporatists so they can continue to rape us while YOU complain 'it's the other guy'.....

    2. Re:liberal propaganda by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I think you misunderstand. The ones who constantly give ground to the extreme right are no liberals at all.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:liberal propaganda by WiiVault · · Score: 1

      Thanks for just coming out and saying what is so obvious to many Americans, and the rest of the 1st world who bother to watch our politics. I'm old enough to remember conservatives who used rational argumentation to describe their ideas. I didn't agree with them, but at least they treated voters like thinking people. Today it's just bizarre horseshit like the war on Christianity, in a country where 95%+ of elected leaders are Judeo-Christian, and nearly the same amount of the public. I'm happy to debate reality with a person who doesn't share my views, but screw people who present false truths as fact and expect me to accept those lies as reality before they will even listen. That is living in a bubble, and thus far the bubble is ever expanding. No wonder our education system is failing us- we just don't value facts and learning.

    4. Re:liberal propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post shows signs of brainwashing.

      It includes signs of:
       

      • Inability to comprehend an opposing, but logical point of view.
      • Inability to admit that an opposing view is logical
      • Inability to admit that people who share an opposing view are as human as you are
      • Seeing a glass half-full and saying it's completely empty
      • Believing that glass is completely empty

      Before hurting yourself or others, attempt to see both sides of an issue for once in your fucking life, and then report to a deprogramming station. If deprogramming stations are not available in your time/area, please do not try to participate in any discussion where the topic may center around what you have been brainwashed to attack/defend.

    5. Re:liberal propaganda by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I remember a time where the Republican conservative didn't give a crap who you slept with.
      Also, they wanted the best fiscal option toy accomplish stated goals.

      Now it's shove religion into everyone else lives, and cut taxes willy-nilly.

      This is a byproduct of letting religion infecting out politics.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  38. Re:News for Nerds by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 2

    The link isn't even a legitimate link. It just takes the reader to some idiot's blog. "Lou Dobbs?" "Fox News?" Is there a citation for any of that, or do we now just invoke these boogeymen on sheer pretense and for effect?

  39. I apologize for this in advance, soon to be on Fox by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Actually, even the worst SUV is carbon-neutral given a broad enough time-frame when you think about it. It's those damn dinosaurs and ancient forests sequestering carbon from the environment that threw everything out of whack.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  40. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 0

    from the wrath of Lou Dobbs and Fox News and others to whom the children's book-turned-Disney film is little more than liberal propaganda. ...

    How is my comment rated a '0'. It was directly related to the OP as noted above. Lumping all of Fox News "and others" together was just a slam at Fox News and has nothing to do with real news, especially on SlashDot. Even worse was the comment about having my head in my 'arse', karmic points or not should have been modded down for being the flame-bait that it is.

    If you don't like Fox News, fine. Being someone who appreciates complete stories rather than sound bites to help me form my opinions, I rather like Fox News and have never heard the entire network slam "The Lorax" and felt the generalizing of the OP was unfair and warranted a critical comment to that effect.

    The 'mod' points, as I understand them, are not supposed to be applied based on whether you agree or disagree with the poster but rather the relevance to the topic at hand.

    Pretty typical liberal baloney,

    Can't defend your position......

    resort to personal attacks

    more personal attacks=karma points

    Now I understand the rules

    Thanks for nothing

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  41. Canyonero, heya, crack whip by IwantToKeepAnon · · Score: 1

    Disney's Lorax = Crusty?

    --
    "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
    1. Re:Canyonero, heya, crack whip by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Disney's Lorax = Crusty?

      And Crusty = Homer.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:Canyonero, heya, crack whip by dacaldar · · Score: 1

      Damn, I had 4 mod points left that I was saving for just a moment like this, and they expired before I got here!
      (P.S. It's Krusty)

    3. Re:Canyonero, heya, crack whip by IwantToKeepAnon · · Score: 1

      D'oh! I knew it was with a K. Klicked submit too fast.

      Top of the line in utility sports, Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!

      --
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
  42. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    Now modded down to troll? Read my other posts. I post with a real handle, never anonymously and feel that the OP was flame bait. I am not a troll and don't have the time to wast with this childish nonsense. I won't be wasting my time on slashdot anymore.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  43. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh stop whining. You have a single negative mod dating back to at least January 2. The sky isn't crashing down and the world isn't coming to an end; throwing hissy-fits won't fix anything.

  44. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by _8553454222834292266 · · Score: 1

    It's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it.

  45. First in 5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Lorax has been my favorite book since I was a kid. I have given it to each of my three children. I find that when reading this book, as a responsible adult, I can also talk to my children about the meaning of the book the way that I interpret it and explain the moral that I want them to take from the book, which is essentially that we have to use our resources responsibly in a sustainable manner. I guess that's called parentingThis will be the first movie that I go to in 5 years since moving back to the States due to excessive costs. I understand that the movie is not going to be the same as the book, fine. I also understand that I am violating my commitment to boycott rediculous movie costs, fine. I will treat my kids to the movie and sushi dinner (their choice, and yeah that tuna might not be harvested in a sustainable manner, but we sure love it... doh! The salmon is probably farm raised). It will be a fist time taking my girls to the theater and will be a treat for us all. Do I care that my kids want green eggs and ham from iHop? Nope, they aren't getting them. If my kids ask about some car, um, no...

  46. Re:News for Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Calm down my little pedantic nerd
    His question was addressed to that which Horton heard.

  47. Calvin and Hobbes by braindrainbahrain · · Score: 1
    This is exactly what Bill Watterson, author of Calvin & Hobbes was afraid would happen with his characters.

    Bill: We thank you for your epic struggle to keep you characters true to your vision. We also hope you've made arrangements to keep that vision intact after your passing.

    1. Re:Calvin and Hobbes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      He can't. It's out. even while Alive there is tones of non authorized merchandise.

      Just look at all the 'Calvins' praying or peeing.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  48. The New Green Economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's actual part of a new "green" initiative where power is generated by Suess spinning in his grave.

  49. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    Isn't the original post whining about fox news and their not towing the mainstream liberal media line? Why then should I stop whining? Although I don't feel that requesting and/or expecting equal treatment as whining.

    I've had plenty of moderator points recently and have not used any to quell dissenting opinion. Are my words truly harming anyone? My original post was just to express my disgust at the raw hatred wrought on Fox News over the years, but seeing as that is not enough, I'll be more thorough.

    First of all let me say, I've posted this here before but I'll post it again:

    I HATE DOUBLE STANDARDS

    .

    Why is it okay to slam Fox, but say anything about a liberal and the world comes crashing down.

    I'll at least post two reasons why I have my opinion, I wonder if Mr. Arse could post and example of me doing acrobatics while my head is up my arse. And btw, using ARSE instead of ASS doesn't make you intelligent.

    During Clinton's Lewinsky scandal (I refuse to use 'Gate' as in MonicaGate or LewinskyGate, Nixon's mess was about the Watergate Hotel and had nothing to do with a 'gate' as the idiot press so loves to stick 'gate' at the end of every scandal, but I digress), I watched as every mainstream news outlet gave Mr. Clinton a pass on his "...it depends on what your meaning of is is" while at the same time berated Kenneth Starr for following through on.......wait for it.....not sex with Lewinsky....., but LYING UNDER OATH TO AVOID PROSECUTION IN A CRIMINAL SEXUAL HARASSMENT CASE". Does anybody even realize this? The only place I heard about it was on Fox. Everybody jokes about the stained dress, but what about the stained soul of Clinton's real victim? You won't hear about that on XXX Nightly News.

    During the 2000 election, I watched every news outlet that was available on DirectTV at the time. Even every OTA station had the usual suspects (Brokaw, Donaldson, et al) spewing a lot of derisive anti-Bush comments, editorializing on the merits of challenging Bush's votes (although nowhere on the screen were the words 'editorial' or 'commentary'), and interviewing only those people who furthered their agenda, primarily liberal dems. Nothing about the cherry-picking that Mr. Al 'Climate-Change' Gore was trying to do in Florida (in case you don't remember, he wanted to only recount certain counties that he knew were in his favor and not those counties that might show more Bush votes despite a STATE LAW requiring ALL votes to be recounted or none and he CHOSE none) nor his attempts at disenfranchising the overseas military personal at the time by claiming their votes were somehow invalid. At one point NBC had Jesse Jackson stating emphatically that Bush stole the election and that people should 'stay out the Bushes'. Brokaw's response was a) question jackson as to his proof regarding his claims? b) allow a counterpoint opinion from a conservative? c) Go to commercial.........hint: it wasn't A or B.

    Fox, on the other hand, presented both democrats presenting their arguments and conservatives presenting theirs. Sometimes quite heatedly from both sides, but from BOTH sides. The reason they're not considered fair-and-balanced is that the liberals are not use to having their reasoning questioned by 'the brain box' in their living rooms nor having to think for themselves. Why is it so wrong to allow Newt Gingrich or Pat Buchannon the same air time as allowed to the likes of Gore, Clinton and Pelosi? What is so wrong about allowing people to think for themselves?

    I'd like to see wikileaks release emails between the news and entertainment staff at some Not Boring Channel and see how many 'entertainers' were given directives to spew jokes promoting the party line.

    IMHO, Fox is very fair-and-balanced for anyone who actually watches the channel rather than listening to out of context sound bites on another Classic News Network or Not Boring Channel or (god help us) El Centro de Comedy.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  50. Smells like steak and seats thirty-five by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

    At least the Lorax didn't sell out for the Canyonero....yet

    1. Re:Smells like steak and seats thirty-five by geekoid · · Score: 1

      ...deer smacking, Lorax squashing, driving machine...

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  51. How to totally screw up somebody's character by mark-t · · Score: 1

    The Lorax would *NEVER* be a spokesperson for any fuel powered automobile, regardless of how much better than other cars its fuel efficiency might be. In fact, he might not even advocate pure electric cars, since so much electricity these days is generated by methods that adversely impact the environment. He would, however, almost certainly advocate cycling... good for one's health *AND* not harmful to the environment either.

    1. Re:How to totally screw up somebody's character by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But bicycling means higher calorie intake, and they need to be manufactured, and material needs to mined, and oil is used in the gears. It needs paths, and most of them need paved manufactured roadways.

      No, the Lorax is a bi-product of the 'naturalistic' fallacy.

      Great story, tho.

      But hey, look another bicyclist using a flimsy excuse to post about that horrible hobby.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:How to totally screw up somebody's character by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Good point. He'd probably walk everywhere.

  52. Universal Pictures! Not Disney! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Universal Pictures! Not Disney!

  53. Re:News for Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're reaching.

  54. I am the Reader, I speak for the Books! by Fritz+T.+Coyote · · Score: 1

    First thing: I LOVED Dr. Suess. The Good Doctor was my first favorite author, and a joy i shared with my children. Reading Suess to them, and later with them, introduced them to the joy of books, and the playfulness with language that has influenced several generations.

    Ever since Mr. Geisel shuffled off to join the Literary Review Eternal the various parasites have been usurping his work for short term gain, primarily in a series of really bad movies. (Often as ego vehicles for comedians.)

    Once again they have managed to suck the life out of a Suess story, put a bunch of stars into the cast, and get lots and lots of critical Merchandise Tie Ins and Synergistic Marketing. So Mazda managed to be the high bidder on this one? They must be desperate to sell more kiddie movers. (Here's a hint guys... when chasing the Greener Than Thou crowd it might be best to tone down the 'zoom zoom' a bit.) Good for them.

    I am expecting the movie to suck as much as the 'Austin Powers Cat In The Shagging Hat' and 'The Mask Plays Grinchmas'. But it will sell Fast Food Meals and Mazda KIddie Movers and Stuff Guilty Parents Buy. And later a bunch of DVDs/Bluerays/whatever comes next, so that instead of being reading 'The Lorax' with our kids we can just put it on the vid player and go back to ignoring the little rug rats.

    So it goes...

  55. mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wish i had mod points. Thank you for bringing a dash or rationality to \. today.

  56. Not the Lorax by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

    Similarly to every other character, song, story or piece of art, it is not the same piece.

    At best, it is Xombie Prostitute Lorax, dead and reaminated, sold to whatever Corporation wants to shove it's hand up Lorax's ass to put on a show for the kids.

    As long as "kids" don't realize this, it helps sell that stuff.

    When they do, it tends to have the opposite reaction. :)

    Regards.

  57. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by geekoid · · Score: 1

    You overlook the fact where FOX as shown , over and over again, to lie. Not occasional slip ups, not bad data, out and out lie.

    Also they have said, in court, then only an hour a day is news, everything else is opinion.

    The only point proven is the the mods system works.
    Please use a decent source, not one that demonstrably lies every damn day.

    There is a reason Fox isn't allowed to call them selves News in Canada.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  58. Re:News for Nerds by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    Stretching, you are. Whiny you seem. Dark side of the force, got you, has.

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
  59. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by geekoid · · Score: 1

    " Being someone who appreciates complete stories rather than sound bites to help me form my opinions, I"
    BUT THEY DON"T. They LIE. This isn't a liberal statements, this is a statement because they say something I don't agree with, this is not an agenda on my part. They demonstrable lie. The fact that you accept whole cloth what Fox News says indicates that you can't actually think for yourself.
    I can't think of ANY other reason someone would take data from a source that is known to lie and accept it as the 'whole story'.And frankly, I don't care what news organization we are talking about.

    It is frustrating to me that someone would base any opinion of incorrect information.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  60. Once-ler, Wuncler by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    If Wuncler wants to get rid of some nature, he only has to open a soul-food restaurant across the street.

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
  61. Meh.. by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    The code-calling font selection is something you choose for for uniform width. If you don't like it, check your preferences.

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
  62. Re:News for Nerds by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

    "To Woosh!"

    --
    I8-D
  63. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by geekoid · · Score: 1

    posted at 08:12 AM -
      I won't be wasting my time on slashdot anymore.

    then at 09:46 AM another post.

    1) You are a liar.
    2) You are ignorant of what a troll is. Look it up if you don't understand why your comment was a troll.
    3) You don't know how to watch a debate.

    So, in summary, fuck you you flamebaiting troll. We won't be having a conversation again.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  64. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    I beg just for one example of 'they lie'. Just one. Preferably a coherent one but just one example. Anybody?

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  65. For Those with Distinguishing Tastes by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    The CX-5 now has both OnStar and OffStar options quantumagically pre-engaged. Observations may change over time.

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
  66. The Real Lesson of the Lorax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the trees are useful, plant more of the damned things.

    Farm the Forest and Shoot the idiot Lorax.

    Then all the animals will be happy and you will have plenty of trees to use to make crap out of.

  67. compromise by mattack2 · · Score: 1

    For adults dealing with the real world of compromise, the Lorax is loved and hated for being such a ridiculously staunch environmentalist. Dude refuses to give an inch, which isnâ(TM)t realistic, but certainly makes him a compelling character. That character is now being used as a shill for the CX-5, a small SUV thatâ(TM)s being billed as fuel-efficient and eco-friendly. What has the poor Lorax become?"

    I obviously haven't seen the new movie (I saw the old TV version many times), and haven't watched the full ad (I have Tivos, and VCRs before that..). I also hate SUVs and think the vast majority of people that have them don't need them.

    It seems hypocritical for the summary to mention "refuses to give an inch, which isnâ(TM)t realistic".

    Maybe this SUV is less evil than other SUVs? (Is it? I'm not sure.. but even the 'mild' hybrid SUVs I've seen reviewed get much better milage than the regular version in many cases.) If it is, then that is still a step in the right direction, thus IS eco-friendly.

  68. Mod parent up. by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Wish I has points.
    These horrible insulting grass remakes harm society as lazy or frankly stupid parents substitute them for the original; unable to care or tell the difference, robbing some of the next generation from the possibility of some understanding and surpassing their parents.

    It seems all that one needs is name recognition and a few references to make many people feel the new product is a just a new version of the original, which had merit enough on its own to last; but after all the bad remakes will the originals survive a mountain of crap covering them up?

    I'd like to see somebody do this process to something more sacred to make a point; like Jesus for example... I wonder what talking animal side kick he would get? What would the horrible music numbers be (besides just picking from that studio's current teen sensation, or the upcoming one.)

  69. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    Intelligencia...........where are you?

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  70. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    And BTW I'd run that 'you are a liar' comment that you publicly posted past your legal team while I go ahead and run it past mine.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  71. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    As shown where? By whom? Any example? Not an opinion because you disagreed with what they said, a real example of them reporting something that can factually be proven to be a lie?

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  72. Re:News for Nerds by ryanov · · Score: 1

    If the point went anywhere, it sure wasn't over my head. :)

  73. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    FACT: guitardood is a 47 year old disabled computer consultant who contributes to slashdot on a regular basis and doesn't deserve your spew.

    Next time you do a google search, make sure you find exactly who it is you are looking for

    I'll leave your other ignorant remarks for the moderators.

    Oh and.....grow up.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  74. Insightful? WTF? by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    That is not insightful. Nowhere is one required to provide a solution! That is false reasoning.
    Imagine if science worked that way-- you can't disprove my theory until you give me a replacement theory! If your replacement sucks, then I'll just ignore all the flaws you make about my theory!

    Fanatics are not always bad. Extremes are not always bad. Activist is not a bad word.

    The Lorax was a simple story with a moral about conservation which maybe should have been more abstract so it wasn't too obvious as to the implications in the real world. It also was a blasphemy against the consumerist religion in the USA; although, the main problem is it upset industries.

    Like so many childhood morals, they directly conflict with the adult world where nobody applies those morals but likes to state them. My favorite is "do not judge a book by its cover" which shows up in many ways all the time for all audiences but is ignored by adults; plus its seems to be worse as people get older. Today's increased obsession with fashion and appearance not only make this worse but now has a huge industry setup to defend an further promote it. A modern children's book on par with the Lorax dealing with image and consumerism would have an industry attacking it like Lorax had with the logging industry.

  75. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by theprofessor102 · · Score: 1

    What does this have to do with the original post about foxnews instead of slander! Dont hide! Use your real id

  76. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    Exactly what do you consider childish? Responding to being called on the carpet with valid points? Defending myself from inflammatory personal attacks because of my personal viewpoint? Your right, the irony is excruciating. Look in the mirror.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  77. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look in the mirror.

    I would, but I'm a disabled 47-year-old computer consultant and my Hoveround won't fit in the bathroom.

  78. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1

    I'm glad you find it humorous. Slashdot isn't the only place keeping track of karma points.

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  79. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Nimey · · Score: 1
    --
    Hail Eris, full of mischief...

    E pluribus sanguinem
  80. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mentally disabled, apparently.

    We don't deserve your mentally-ill spew, little man.

  81. Re:Conservatives are complaining about no compromi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Almost as ironic as the fact that conservatism is a dirty word when used in conjunction with financials and morality, but it's perfectly ok when used in conjunction with trees and whales.

  82. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by guitardood · · Score: 1
    Stewart's Claims:

    2010 Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care' - Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-takeover-health-care

    After reading, quite extensively, on this topic, it is clear that there is much debate about this issue. It is quite painfully clear to people such as myself who don't qualify for medicare and can't afford private insurance that we are going to fall through the cracks in this not so well thought out government over-regulation. Some may argue that what FOX reported was a lie, but to me sounds more like hyperbole or half truth at worst. While the entire Obamacare bill may not be a government takeover of hospitals and/or doctors, it is a government takeover of my choice of how and where I receive my healthcare especially in the forcing me to purchase insurance. Hopefully the Supreme Court will shoot that aspect down when it hears this case later this year.

    Beck says less than 10 percent of Obama Cabinet has worked in private sector - Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/02/glenn-beck/beck-says-less-10-percent-obama-cabinet-members-ha/

    A quote by a specific news analyst who is known for his opinionated presentation, not representative of the news or news staff

    White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard once served as the "right-hand man" for Bertha Lewis, who heads up ACORN - Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/30/steve-doocy/beck-and-others-repeat-claim-white-house-political/

    After reading the ENTIRE Politifact, it was clear that the statement was not false until Politifact contacted Mr. Rathke where he then retracted his previous statement/blog-post:

    ".....Patrick Gaspard (who was ACORN New York's political director before that) didn't reach out from the White House and help make that happen, and I'll tell you to take some remedial classes in 'politics 101.'"

    which IMHO sounds a bit fishy to me and probably needs a little more fact checking than asking the elephant: "Who stole the peanut butter". Rathke was the founder of ACORN and we're supposed to believe that he was mistaken about who was ACORN New York's political director? C'mon.

    Says the Texas State Board of Education is considering eliminating references to Christmas and the Constitution in textbooks - Politifact: http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/mar/12/gretchen-carlson/gretchen-carlson-says-state-board-education-consid/

    I'll give Stewart this one although there was much confusion from FOX, the Texas BOE and Politifact. A lot of back pedaling on both sides, but FOX definitely fucked up

    The best evidences showing PolitiFact's liberal slant - Politifact: http://politifactbias.blogspot.com/p/annotated-principles-of-politifact.html

    I'll need to do more research regarding this supposedly unbiased fact checking site. However, after perusing the last three months of articles, over 70% were anti-republican claims, many of which fall into the category of could be true/could be false depending on ideology. Mr. Adair who founded the organization is a usual suspect on NPR, the embodiment of liberal talk radio and the director of PEW, a p

    --
    -- L8R, guitardood
  83. Re:Fox News???? Really??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go FUCK yourself you ignorant little puissant eunuch.