Computer Programmers Only the 5th Most Sleep Deprived Profession

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Computer Programmers Only the 5th Most Sleep Deprived Profession

Posted by Soulskill on Friday March 2, 2012 @05:37AM from the it's-the-sun's-fault-for-coming-out-before-noon dept.

garthsundem writes "As described in the NY Times Economix blog, the mattress chain Sleepy's analyzed data from the National Health Interview Survey to find the ten most sleep deprived professions. In order, they are: Home Health Aides, Lawyer, Police Officers, Doctors/Paramedics, Tie: (Economists, Social Workers, Computer Programmers), Financial Analysts, Plant Operators (undefined, but we assume 'factory' and not 'Audrey II'), and Secretaries."

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I wonder... by hvm2hvm · 2012-03-02 05:40 · Score: 5, Funny

I wonder why the secretaries can't get any sleep... *wink* *wink*

--
ics
1. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  No from programmer, far too lazy of group to wear anyone out.
2. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 16:38 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder why the secretaries can't get any sleep... *wink* *wink*
  They have uncontrollable eye spasms?
3. Re:I wonder... by kaizokuace · 2012-03-02 19:01 · Score: 1
  
  well, if Don Draper is busy plugging all of them I can understand the lack of sleep.
  
  --
  Balderdash!
Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Kenja · 2012-03-02 05:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

Over the years, I seem to have trained my brain to seek out patterns in everything I encounter. This makes sleeping rough as any back ground noise resembling human speech causes me to become fully alert as my brain tries to make sense of what it heard. Only solution to this I've found is a good white noise generator that operates on the same frequency patterns as speech.

Course, I could just have the brain worms. Who knows.

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
1. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by thePowerOfGrayskull · 2012-03-02 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  ver the years, I seem to have trained my brain to seek out patterns in everything I encounter.
  How has this benefited you in life?
  (Not a troll- honestly curious)
  I've trained myself to recognize patterns where it's applicable - but doing it everywhere/with everything seems like a waste of brain cycles.
2. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Kenja · 2012-03-02 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Hard to say, its a difficult thing to quantify. I do a LOT of data analysis in my programming work, so its either a benefit or a side effect. However I could do without my mind shouting "WHAT'S THAT MEAN!" when someone three rooms away whispers...
  
  --
  
  "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
3. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-03-02 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  . . . doing it everywhere/with everything seems like a waste . . .
  . . . but it's a fun waste . . .
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
4. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by ilsaloving · 2012-03-02 05:53 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You mean I'm not the only one? Although in my case, I created a repeating track of ocean sounds.
  The critical part of doing that, is that you have to make the track long enough that your brain doesn't detect the repeating pattern. My first attempt made it only 5 minutes long, and in surprisingly short order, I was going, "Okay here comes that particular crash of waves against the rocks..."
  You also have to do something to deal with the start and end. I used audacity to add a 3 second fade in and out, at the start and end respectively. Then use an mp3 player that features a crossfade between tracks. and one-track repeat.
  Oh, and then you take your speakers and put them on your window sill, pointing outside. The sound reflects back from the window and it sounds (somewhat) as if it's originating from outside.
  Is there a hyphen in obsessive compulsive disorder? >.>
5. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by OrigamiMarie · 2012-03-02 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  I've had that problem since I was a little kid. Presence of audible speech -> speech parsing daemon stays awake -> brain stays conscious. And if there is talking during that shallow part of sleep that comes every 90 minutes or so, I will wake up and stay awake. So now I sleep with earplugs (the best I've found so far for comfort and noise blocking are a brand that comes only in bright pink).
6. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Lord+of+the+Fries · 2012-03-02 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  So do you have the inverse problem now that when you're in a meeting and the background noise of the ventilation system comes on, you nod off?
  
  --
  One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
7. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by dougisfunny · 2012-03-02 06:06 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Is there a hyphen in obsessive compulsive disorder? >.>
  You should go check.... three times.
  
  --
  This is not the funny you're looking for.
8. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by punman · 2012-03-02 06:13 · Score: 2
  
  I can totally relate to this. I have to sleep with a fan or some other true white noise in the background. HAVE to. Absolutely have to.
  My (ex-)wife bought or was given this noise generator thingy because we had problems sleeping with snoring and TV and such, and when I say "we" I mean that I had a problem sleeping, and she had a problem not turning off the TV when it was time to go to sleep. Anyway, it had a bunch of audio modes to pick from: birds, happy burbling river noise, jungle, crickets, a few others, and a white noise track. Well, the track for each was, as you said, just long enough that I could pick out the patterns, and as we listened to them to try to pick one, I was saying "no" to each one rather quickly, and she was getting more and more frustrated. Finally I said, "just try the white noise one, I don't care if it's boring, it's the only one that's going to work." Rather soon (almost immediately) I realized the track for the white noise was simply an 8 second loop and the "whiteness" JUST barely didn't match up from the end and the beginning so I could hear this tiny clip in the audio when it looped. "NOPE THIS ONE WON'T WORK EITHER" in fact, it was by far the MOST annoying one of the bunch. She never understood why, and it got returned or thrown out or donated or whatever.
  But yeah.
  Patterns.
  They suck sometimes.
9. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:20 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Hmmmm... ... maybe you can't sleep because you stay up all night trying to perfect looping ocean sound tracks.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
10. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Princeofcups · 2012-03-02 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  Hard to say, its a difficult thing to quantify. I do a LOT of data analysis in my programming work, so its either a benefit or a side effect. However I could do without my mind shouting "WHAT'S THAT MEAN!" when someone three rooms away whispers...
  It's serotonin related anxiety. I had that for 30 years, and thought it was normal. If you want to get rid of it, an SSRI will work wonders. But then, of course, you have to weigh the side effects against the benefits. BTW, I thought I'd be less productive without that, but I find just the opposite.
  
  --
  The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
11. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by idontgno · 2012-03-02 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  a good white noise generator that operates on the same frequency patterns as speech.
  You'll know you're really in trouble when you start hearing whispering voices in the white noise.
  
  --
  Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
12. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by kale77in · 2012-03-02 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  I once made a 13 minute loop of rain sounds for a friend who was in a mental hospital. It was 18 mins originally, but 13 after removing every time a car stopped, or plain flew by, or anything else that would have created a cognizable pattern. Very soothing stuff.
13. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by DigiShaman · 2012-03-02 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  As with all drugs that alter the brain chemistry, don't you run the risk of becoming dependent on them? Not addicted, but honestly chemically dependent. If someone takes SSRIs for 20 years, won't the brain re-wire itself to become dependent on those as a baseline for the "new normal"?
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
14. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:38 · Score: 2
  
  " track long enough that your brain doesn't detect the repeating pattern."
  the brain will put a perceived pattern there, if there isn't a real one. Because if you don't have a pattern, you will go crazy.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
15. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by flargleblarg · 2012-03-02 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  No hyphen. It should be an en-dash in this case, not a hyphen.
  
  This:
  
  obsessive–compulsive disorder
  
  Not this:
  
  obsessive-compulsive disorder
16. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Beardo+the+Bearded · 2012-03-02 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  If you really have CDO, you spell it CDO.
  
  --
  
  ---
  ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
17. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by srussia · 2012-03-02 06:52 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Over the years, I seem to have trained my brain to seek out patterns in everything I encounter. This makes sleeping rough as any back ground noise resembling human speech causes me to become fully alert as my brain tries to make sense of what it heard. Only solution to this I've found is a good white noise generator that operates on the same frequency patterns as speech.
  The opposite keeps me up: pattern construction.
  
  When listening to white noise, I have had the experience of faintly hearing a particular song, which I assumed was just coming from some neighbor's house. After a while I realized that the song kept on going and going far longer than it should be.
  
  I figured out that the song never ended because I didn't know how its arrangement ended. In other words, my brain was attenuating frequencies that did not fit the song as I knew it. I was literally hearing a sound pattern by cherry-picking from the available acoustic stimulus.
  
  That keeps me up at night.
  
  --
  Set your phasers on "funky"!
18. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by b4dc0d3r · 2012-03-02 06:52 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Hope this doesn't bruise your ego, but everyone's brain is basically a giant pattern recognition device. Not everyone is tuned in to sound, though. I hear white noise (HVAC usually) as a rock band playing. Probably the distorted guitars and drums fit a similar spectrum. I have "transcribed" a few tunes, and they largely lack structure but don't match anything I or my friends recognize. Since I don't pay attention to lyrics in music, the vocals are usually nonsense syllables I can't make out.
  An old episode of Radio Lab was investigating dreams, and one bit of info was that by having people play Tetris for a while before sleeping, they either thought about Tetris before sleeping, or reported dreaming about Tetris. The idea there was that it was part of the review/learning process.
  I contest that and think that instead, since you were just doing Tetris pattern recognition, your brain is still in that mode while getting random input from your visual system. The first stage of sleep frequently being confused with being awake, it's hard to say for certain whether these people were actually dreaming, or awake and recognizing patterns, or really much of anything.
  Mothers report being able to hear their child's cry in a crowded room - they are used to recognizing that pattern. Conclusion: stop listening to people, start listening to instrumental music, and you'll have a free radio in your head at all times.
19. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 07:44 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Perhaps somebody can explain to me why the notion that "a bunch of external noises keeps people awake" seems to be such a fucking revelation to slashdot readers?
  I mean... how is this even a thing? News flash: LOUD (relative to ambient) NOISES WHILE YOU TRY TO SLEEP TENDS TO WAKE YOU UP. It doesn't mean your brain is "super extra powerful" or that you're "super mega ultra sensitive to patterns as a result of your intense brainpower."
  It means that:
  1) You probably have atrocious sleep hygiene, and don't reserve the bed for sleeping and fucking;
  2) You probably sit up until very late with an LCD screen shining in your face, playing games, watching porn, watching movies or tv shows, etc., the result being that you arrive at bedtime in a fairly excited, wide awake, "daylight" mindframe;
  3) You probably don't give yourself a reasonable amount of time to sleep - i.e., going to bed at 1 am, knowing you have to wake up a 6:30;
  4) You are probably fairly sedentary, a bit overweight, and suffer from mild sleep apnea which disrupts your sleep patterns;
  Fix those, then let's talk about how you all have a special secret ability that only engineers of your massive intellect and vast mental capacity could attain.
20. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by lister+king+of+smeg · 2012-03-02 07:45 · Score: 2
  
  i always put on audio books as background sound. I just listen to the story until i fall asleep and pick up where i fell asleep the next night, i might take some people a while to get used to it but when a audio book is 18 hours long you will probably fall asleep before the book ends and know i can sleep thorough people talking or anything else pretty much. i started doing this when i moved to a house that was near a lumber mill, and two sets of train tracks. the trains would go by 60 a day mostly at night.
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
21. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by gmaslov · 2012-03-02 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  I also sleep with earplugs every night, for the same reason. I've tried a few brands and finally settled on "Hearos Ultimate Softness", which you can find on Amazon.
22. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by noelbon70 · 2012-03-02 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  Doesn't that attract seagulls?
  
  --
  Founder: OxbowSEO.com
23. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by noelbon70 · 2012-03-02 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  I found a waterfall track on emusic years ago, when tracks were .25 cents. It's direct recording from nature and is perfect. It's 60 minutes long and has it's own built in fade. I just put it on repeat. It's the most played track on my iTunes by a factor of 1000 :). Best .25 I ever spent, by a factor of 1000 too. Though I did by all kinds of whiten noise apps, cd's, and other nature tracks before I found this one.
  
  Waterfall: A Week In Hawaii : The Atmosphere Collection / B Morrissey/Dick Morrissey
  
  --
  Founder: OxbowSEO.com
24. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by hoggoth · 2012-03-02 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Years ago an artist named Kit Williams buried an expensive jeweled rabbit and wrote a book, Masquerade, that hid clues to the whereabouts of the buried rabbit. Thousands of people pored over every bit of the book in minute detail looking for clues. The rabbit was eventually found, and the solution was clever and satisfying (unlike the many attempts in following years to duplicate the 'magic' of that book).
  What I found especially interesting, however, was the documentary written afterwards. 'The Quest for the Golden Hare' by Bamber Gascione, described the incredible self-delusional pattern matching people did where they convinced themselves that they had solved the clues and found the solution. They would not change their beliefs even after the rabbit was found elsewhere and the true solution was revealed. Some people even held on to the belief that Kit Williams had hidden a second more subtly hidden treasure just for them.
  Fascinating reading.
  "the human mind has an equal capacity for pattern-matching and self-deception" - Bamber Gascione
  
  --
  - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
25. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by maple_shaft · 2012-03-02 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Popping pills is not necessary but in the most severe cases. I get this too as a software developer with a mentally demanding job, it is essentially overstimulation.
  Try reading up on Zen as well as meditation techniques. Practice breathing exercises. Decrease sugars and processed foods heavy in complex carbs. Take up full body exercise that is demanding but not stressful. Do not run or lift weights, it is too stressful on your body. Walking, tai-chi and yoga help. All of this balances me out and calms my mind. I sleep so much better and I wake so much more rejuvenated than ever before.
26. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by dgatwood · 2012-03-02 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  A hyphen would probably be more correct. An en dash is used for ranges of numbers, and for showing relationships between two otherwise unrelated things, e.g. the Apple–Microsoft rivalry, the Epstein–Barr wedding, etc. Neither of those two rules appears to apply here.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
27. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by turgid · 2012-03-02 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  I often hear "music" in machine noises e.g. dishwashers, central heating systems, washing machines, car engines.
  My brain fills in these wonderful rhythms, harmonies and melodies. I try to remember them, but when I stop listening to the machines, they go, almost instantly.
  The last time it happened a few weeks ago, I concentrated on it for many minutes, relaxed "decoupled" from the inhibitions part of my brain and let it compose. I consciously tried to remember the tune and ran to my guitar, picked it up and looked for the first note, which turned out to be a C# very high up, near the top of the neck. I just about managed to play the tune which was only a couple of bars worth.
  I usually find that when I try to do that, I haven't concentrated long enough to remember the tune, and often trying to find the first note makes me forget it if I have to try more than a couple of notes.
  
  --
  Stick Men
28. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by LanMan04 · 2012-03-02 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  YEE HAW! *bang bang*
  One Two Three Four!
  YEE HAW!! *bang bang*
  One Two Three Four!
  YEE HAW!! *bang bang*
  One Two Three Four!
  
  --
  With the first link, the chain is forged.
29. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by petsounds · 2012-03-02 08:54 · Score: 1
  
  You're Bjork, right?
30. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by gizmo_mathboy · 2012-03-02 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Is there a hyphen in obsessive compulsive disorder? >.>
  
  Remember, if you have it bad enough it's not OCD but CDO. ;-)
31. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Mr.+Shotgun · 2012-03-02 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Over the years, I seem to have trained my brain to seek out patterns in everything I encounter. This makes sleeping rough as any back ground noise resembling human speech causes me to become fully alert as my brain tries to make sense of what it heard. Only solution to this I've found is a good white noise generator that operates on the same frequency patterns as speech.
  I had that problem too, best thing i've found is to just get a small fan. Loud enough to drown out most background noise like conversations and walking yet not loud enough to keep you awake.
  
  --
  Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
32. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by MarkvW · 2012-03-02 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  I can totally relate to this. I have to sleep with a fan or some other true white noise in the background. HAVE to. Absolutely have to.
  My (ex-)wife bought or was given this noise generator thingy because we had problems sleeping with snoring and TV and such, and when I say "we" I mean that I had a problem sleeping, and she had a problem not turning off the TV when it was time to go to sleep. Anyway, it had a bunch of audio modes to pick from: birds, happy burbling river noise, jungle, crickets, a few others, and a white noise track. Well, the track for each was, as you said, just long enough that I could pick out the patterns, and as we listened to them to try to pick one, I was saying "no" to each one rather quickly, and she was getting more and more frustrated. Finally I said, "just try the white noise one, I don't care if it's boring, it's the only one that's going to work." Rather soon (almost immediately) I realized the track for the white noise was simply an 8 second loop and the "whiteness" JUST barely didn't match up from the end and the beginning so I could hear this tiny clip in the audio when it looped. "NOPE THIS ONE WON'T WORK EITHER" in fact, it was by far the MOST annoying one of the bunch. She never understood why, and it got returned or thrown out or donated or whatever.
  But yeah.
  Patterns.
  They suck sometimes.
  Very similar for me. My wife got us a really big, variable speed, HEPA air filter. She can't hear my snoring, I don't have to subconsciously interpret the road noise, and her sinus problems are a thing of the past.
  For those of you willing to spend a few hundred bucks, you can consider digital audio workstation software. You can use it to create sound patterns (including random ones) that will facilitate rest.
33. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  Personally, I use marijuana to "disengage" on weekends. Probably not so healthy in some ways but it has worked since I was in college. I've tried meditation and many other methods of relaxation but so far the only thing that's worked has been cannabis.
  I get home from work, on Friday afternoon, hit the gym, take a 15 minute run home and then right before taking a shower I'll have a couple of bong hits. When I get out of the shower I'm completely relaxed and able to function like a normal human being.
34. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by turgid · 2012-03-02 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  No. When I was a young man, I was moderately amused by the humour I perceived in some of her solo stuff. But now I am an old curmudgeon.
  
  --
  Stick Men
35. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by mikael_j · 2012-03-02 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the thing is that if your job involves pattern recognition for 40+ hours per week you're likely to be more susceptible to finding patterns in random noise than the average person.
  And since programmers often spend a lot of time finding patterns in seemingly random data...
  
  --
  Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
36. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by petsounds · 2012-03-02 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  whooooshy.... the clip I linked is from her role in Dancer in the Dark where she daydreams in a factory. Very dark and depressing; as an old curmudgeon you might like it. ;)
37. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Ihmhi · 2012-03-02 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  I am particularly fond of Rainy Mood. The track is something like an hour long so repetition is a non issue. I will sometimes simulate "rainy days" by drawing the shades, putting on Rainy Mood, and then adding some music on top of that and doing some light reading. It is truly fantastic.
  
  --
  Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
38. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  There's no such thing as serotonin-related anxiety. The brain is more complicated than that, regardless of what direct-to-consumer TV ads want you to think. Unless you are under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs, your anxiety is probably not directly related to serotonin levels in your brain, although perturbing serotonin levels might fix your anxiety. Disclaimer: I am a neuroscientist.
39. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by ilsaloving · 2012-03-02 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  What does Collaborative Data Objects has to do with it?
40. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Randle_Revar · 2012-03-02 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  >Do not run or lift weights, it is too stressful on your body
  Nonsense. Humans are highly evolved for running. And for heavy physical activity in general, if not exactly weight lifting.
  
  --
  Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
41. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by nbehary · 2012-03-02 15:44 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe. I'm not an expert, but I've been on and off SSRIs at times. My actual experience is that they help get me to normal, and they reduce the need for them. This doesn't work for everyone, but there is the idea out there that changing your mood will naturally change your natural brain Chemistry. It needs the meds and therapy together work, and has for me to a degree. (that doesn't always work for sure, people do need them forever, and in my case I've gone back and forth between needing them and not twice in the last 10 years). So, I guess yes, you can be dependent on them if that doesn't work, but they are probably harmless. (probably, screwing with brain chem is scary to me, despite taking them)
  There are lots of things people need to take a pill for everyday.
42. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by greycortex · 2012-03-02 16:33 · Score: 1
  
  I use alcohol, at home alone. I can't drink too much though, because the drinks I make require a fairly high level of sobriety and concentration. If I use raw spirits, they are expensive enough for me to make sure and use small amounts. Having a highly discriminating palate (for booze) acts as a great limiter. Conversely, if I'm in a social situation at an excellent bar and someone else is buying, I have to be more careful. Let me tell you, just a small drink, and then I care somewhat less about lurking race conditions.
43. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by greycortex · 2012-03-02 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  That happens to me, and then I just want to play more Tetris.
44. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by jones_supa · 2012-03-02 20:02 · Score: 1
  
  Then you are healthy.
45. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by mentus · 2012-03-02 20:34 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps somebody can explain to me why the notion that "a bunch of external noises keeps people awake" seems to be such a fucking revelation to slashdot readers?
  I mean... how is this even a thing? News flash: LOUD (relative to ambient) NOISES WHILE YOU TRY TO SLEEP TENDS TO WAKE YOU UP. It doesn't mean your brain is "super extra powerful" or that you're "super mega ultra sensitive to patterns as a result of your intense brainpower."
  I don't care so much about the background noise if it's manageable enough, but having a TV on certainly will keep me awake all night. It really amazes me how people can sleep with the TV on. No matter what's on, how crappy the content or how tired I am, if the TV is on I just can't switch my brain off. My brain seems to be forced into paying attention to what's being said and it will keep me awake for hours and hours. Eventually I guess I could sleep out of exhaustion after many many hours, but I never dared to put myself through that torture.
  Any TV-sleepers out here (those who like to sleep to their TVs on) care to comment on how they cope with it?
46. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by jones_supa · 2012-03-02 23:25 · Score: 1
  
  This is a bit different, but I have found the YouTube "whisper community" videos relaxing. The idea is to create stuff whispering, talking smoothly or with some other relaxing sounds. Check out the channels of GentleWhispering or Elelwyn. There's many more.
47. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by randomsearch · 2012-03-03 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  You may find use for this:
  http://www.simplynoise.com/
48. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by turgid · 2012-03-03 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  Didn't look at the clip. It was late, and Mrs Turgid would get suspicious if I started looking at Bjork videos... :-)
  
  --
  Stick Men
49. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by smithmc · 2012-03-03 18:48 · Score: 1
  
  Over the years, I seem to have trained my brain to seek out patterns in everything I encounter. .
  You sure that was you training your brain? And not, say, a million years of evolution?
  
  --
  Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
50. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by Eponymous+Hero · 2012-03-05 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  i would agree, except that no one mentioned the noise being LOUD. that's probably why it's a special case to them, it's NORMAL noises that wake them up, the kinds of noises that don't wake up the rest of us. and i don't believe you are either any kind of medical expert nor equipped to make diagnoses to people you've never seen or talked to in person. even if the person were to take your advice and "fix" themselves by your prescription, i don't know why they would come back to you for discussion. your bedside manner is more atrocious than the person's sleep hygiene. also, would love to know how the "wet spot" contributes to a good night's sleep. you did mention fucking as an approved activity under sleep hygiene.
  
  you should take a cue from Snoop Dogg: "Fucked her on the flo', so I wouldn't mess up my bed ..."
  
  now that's hygiene.
  
  --
  insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
51. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by pamar · 2012-03-05 22:17 · Score: 1
  
  I have a similar problem (even if it looks way milder than those described here and in the OP).
  I use an iPhone app called NatureSpace (http://www.naturespace.com/) - even just the free soundtracks included in the basic version help me focus by covering human conversation (when I am trying to read during a commute, for example).
52. Re:Issue for me is pattern recognition. by gmaslov · 2012-03-06 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  Each pair lasts about 3 nights before starting to get a little unpleasant. I imagine it may be different for other people, though.
secretaries??? wonder who they are up late with... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 05:42 · Score: 3, Funny

secretaries??? wonder who they are up late with...
17 minutes? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 05:42 · Score: 5, Funny

Because we sleep 17 minutes less than Forestry workers? 17 lousy minutes? I sleep longer than that in crummy meetings.
1. Re:17 minutes? by asylumx · 2012-03-02 08:26 · Score: 2
  
  Well if you'd stop sleeping through meetings, we'd be higher on the list!
7 hours is sleep deprived? by Missing.Matter · 2012-03-02 05:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

Looking at the most well rested and least, there's only a difference of like 4 minutes. Really, 4 minutes makes the difference between a good night's rest and being "sleep deprived?"
1. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by ironjaw33 · 2012-03-02 05:48 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Looking at the most well rested and least, there's only a difference of like 4 minutes. Really, 4 minutes makes the difference between a good night's rest and being "sleep deprived?"
  They don't show the standard deviation either, which could be huge.
2. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by Redlemons · 2012-03-02 06:00 · Score: 2
  
  "analysis" like these are just an easy way to get into the news.
  
  It's not science!
3. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by metlin · 2012-03-02 06:10 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  ...and they've not included professions where most people I know get almost no sleep. I'm a management consultant, and between the travel, work, and client outings, we consider ourselves lucky if we get 5 hours of sleep on a week day. And compared to my i-banking friends, I'm practically a lazy ass. Ditto for a lot of people in consulting (management or IT), finance, and law (I did see lawyer and financial analyst there, but those numbers look like a joke).
4. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by Nethemas+the+Great · 2012-03-02 06:13 · Score: 2
  
  The whole thing is completely pointless with variations between professions easily attributed to statistical background noise. On any given day the same survey would yield a completely different distribution.
  
  --
  Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
5. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by metlin · 2012-03-02 06:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And oh, I forgot: soldiers and people in the US military. Those folks have pretty brutal schedules, too.
6. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by Mithent · 2012-03-02 06:15 · Score: 2
  
  It probably is, which probably means that the results aren't statistically significantly different. This is such a common problem: in science, if you attempt to present data that doesn't have statistical significance (i.e. it's unlikely that any difference that you see is due to chance), no-one will believe you. But in the media, tiny differences in means observed from small sample sets are regularly presented as real differences, when in all likelihood it's all down to sampling error. (How accurately do people report the amount of sleep they get, anyway?)
  
  We're never going to see error bars and p-values in reviews and newspaper articles, though, so you just have to take stories like this with a heavy dose of salt.
7. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by jonadab · 2012-03-02 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  What about students? When I was in college, I routinely got excited about the prospect of three hours' sleep, and I was one of those students who actually tried to go to bed at night (as in, while it was still dark out), especially if I had a 7:30 class. Many others didn't.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
8. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by eternaldoctorwho · 2012-03-02 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it's probably the last 4 minutes of sleep. Having to skip those always makes me feel sleep-deprived anyway....
9. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by garyebickford · 2012-03-02 06:28 · Score: 2
  
  Back when I travelled a lot doing sales support and also programming in the hotel rooms (sometimes all night), I got trained so that I would get on the airplane, sit down, buckle up and be asleep before we left the gate. Sometimes I woke up enough to tilt the seat back. I would wake up as we came in for a landing (each landing). I got at least 1/2 my total sleep that way, sometimes for six weeks at a time.
  
  --
  It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
10. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by blueg3 · 2012-03-02 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  If the standard deviation within a group is large, than the small differences between the groups is even less relevant. A small difference between groups is most relevant if the standard deviation within a group is small.
  But yes, undoubtedly the standard deviation is large, which really means that none of the listed professions get a statistically significantly different amount of sleep than the others.
11. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by Joiseybill · 2012-03-02 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Looking at the most well rested and least, there's only a difference of like 4 minutes. Really, 4 minutes makes the difference between a good night's rest and being "sleep deprived?"
  @Missing.Matter Amen.
  @PHCOsci Amen.
  The conversation here should be more about " Useless Stats" than about who sleeps more or less.
  Even more disturbing than the tiny difference or 4 mins, is the overall ~24 mins between the extremes on this list.
  +agree with others about how this is a statistician FAIL.
  +agree with others about uniqueness of humans.
  I personally prefer about 9 hrs .. I don't know who is sleeping 5 to balance me, but thanks whomever you are.
  @ACs and others talking about Pilots, Truck Drivers and others with "mandatory" rest - well,
  I've been there & done that. regulatory rest periods don't include your 1- or 2- hour commute home to sleep or see your kid's little league game; and don't include any pre-shift prep or post-shift paperwork you need to do.
12. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by adamgolding · 2012-03-02 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Many of those people might 'binge' sleep here and there to catch up--what the small range of values might show is that sleep debt is very linear..
13. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by couchslug · 2012-03-02 09:25 · Score: 2
  
  "Those folks have pretty brutal schedules, too.
  You'd be surprised at how those are often managed.
  Even in wartime, USAF aircraft maintainers are frequently rotated after twelve-hour shifts because performance deteriorates near that point. Units are manned accordingly. It is also encouraged to rest when not working for greater efficiency. Many deployers prefer that environment as far as work goes because there are few other demands beyond work, eating, and sleeping.
  Likewise many Navy vessels are manned for 24/7 ops. They play it smart, with decent chow and lots of coffee available. (Among the first things Kitty Hawk advance teams set up when deployed to Southern Watch land bases were (many) large coffee urns.)
  Of course in ground combat etc all bets are off, but the population is young and reasonably physically fit.
  Medical tradition is crazy. The idea that anyone in civilian life should be repairing HUMANS after working over twelve hours is stupid.
  Rotating shifts REALLY fuck people up. In aircraft maintenance we tried to place people in shifts they preferred to stay on. Swings/Mids were my favorites. All the MPHBs (Military Pointy-Haired Bosses) had gone home by then.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
14. Re:7 hours is sleep deprived? by waferbuster · 2012-03-02 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  I think some of the military jobs (which you would think would have decent sleep schedules) are absolutely crazy. My first underway on a submarine, I was port-and-starboard watches with another guy. That means I stood watch for 6 hours, then he stood watch for 6 hours, then I stood watch for 6 hours, etc. For a couple of months.
  Theoretically, you were sleeping during those 6 off hours, but in actuality you were doing drills, evolutions, training, field-day (cleaning), maintenance, studying for qualifications, etc. There were times when I'd be up for a day plus, running only on caffeine. Of course, when you did get off watch and had time to sleep, you were so wired that it was hard to wind down.
  I was a Nuclear Reactor Operator on submarines. Do you think that's a job where people should be working who've been kept awake working for >24 hours straight? It happens. All the time. Not during battle, or even during any conflict, but just doing a workup for an outside group to evaluate the submarine performance in peacetime.
  The next underway, I was on the more traditional submarine schedule of working 18 hour rotation. That's 6 hours on watch, followed by 6 hours of maintenance, and then 6 hours off, and then back on watch. But again, those 6 hours off about half the time coincided some scheduled department or shipwide event (evolutions/drills/field-day/etc). Occasionally, I'd end up missing two sleep periods in a row due to scheduling, so I'd be running a nuclear reactor after being up and working for 36 hours straight.
  I used to snicker when I'd hear about pilots getting mandatory time off for sleep before they could fly again. What a cushy job!
  Appropriate captcha: slacken
  
  --
  I'm an individual! Just like everyone else!
dumb... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 05:43 · Score: 1

stupidest thing I've ever seen --- theres a 10 minute difference between the most well rested and the most deprived. WOW!!!
1. Re:dumb... by kale77in · 2012-03-02 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  Spread across a whole profession that's somewhat more significant that it seems. it's equal to every sixth person getting an hour less sleep. Still not groundbreaking, but at least indicative.
7h3m vs. 6h57m by Rene+S.+Hollan · 2012-03-02 05:46 · Score: 5, Informative

I don't think that three minutes really makes that much of a difference between first and fifth place, when it represents less than one percent of the mean of those two points.
More surprising is that they think programmers get anywhere near 7 hours sleep a night: I average 5 Sunday to Friday, and 10 each on Friday and Saturday, for an average of 6h26m. In my youth, I got a LOT less (working 100 hour weeks was not unusual).

--
In Liberty, Rene
1. Re:7h3m vs. 6h57m by Rene+S.+Hollan · 2012-03-02 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Er, six minutes, and less rthan 2%. My bad.
  
  --
  In Liberty, Rene
2. Re:7h3m vs. 6h57m by virgnarus · 2012-03-02 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  So it's enough to force someone to hit the snooze button once instead of twice. I say that is a pretty substantial difference.
3. Re:7h3m vs. 6h57m by benhattman · 2012-03-06 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, really? Because I get 8.5 hours of sleep every weeknight, and sometimes even sleep in on weekends (or take a nap). So, I guess I just proved that programmers average over 8 hours of sleep a night.
  Woot!
Less sleep needed by chaim79 · 2012-03-02 05:47 · Score: 1

Sound more like "less sleep needed" then "more sleep deprived", especially with only 23 minutes separating the most sleep from the least sleep.

--
DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
1. Re:Less sleep needed by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  please quote correctly:
  Demetrius: "Villain, what hast thou done?"
  Aaron: "That which thou canst not undo."
  Chiron: "Thou hast undone our mother."
  Aaron: "Villain, I have done thy mother."
  TA -IV-II
  Also:
  Painter: "Y'are a dog."
  Apemantus: "Thy mother's of my generation. What's she, if I be a dog?"
  ToA 1-1
  If the taught period slang, and pointed out You're mama joke when try to teach Shakespeare in high school they would get a lot more interest,..cause it's Naughty.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Really now? by JustAnotherIdiot · 2012-03-02 05:48 · Score: 2

I question these results when neither Pilot nor Air Traffic Controller are on this list.

--
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
1. Re:Really now? by GuB-42 · 2012-03-02 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  Don't pilots and air traffic controllers have mandatory rest time ?
2. Re:Really now? by Garth+Smith · 2012-03-02 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  As someone who's worked in Alaska... where's the fishing positions? All the crabbers?
  Of course it might be hard to get sleeping stats for people who spend months out at sea. As Mike Rowe was once told by a crabber regarding safety, "OSHA??? No, Ocean!"
  I'm sure we can assume they missed a lot of other occupations so I'd take this list with a grain of salt.
3. Re:Really now? by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  In the military I would routinely go 72-104 hours with no sleep.
  I don't think any other profession can top the military for sleep deprivation.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
4. Re:Really now? by WeatherServo9 · 2012-03-02 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, they shouldn't be on the list. They both have limits to the number of hours they can work to prevent fatigue on the job. Here's an article that mentions some of the requirements.
5. Re:Really now? by cavePrisoner · 2012-03-02 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  Drawing the distinction between different positions within the military would remove any doubt. I usually get 3-4 hours sleep during the week as an e-4 team leader in active army. 6-7 on the weekends.
  
  I'm taking a class right now on a different post, thus stripping me of responsibility at my unit. I only work 8 hours a day, and only during the week. It's like I'm on vacation.
thinking about stuff by hey · 2012-03-02 05:50 · Score: 2

I'm a programmer and I can't sleep because I'm thinking about stuff (bugs, better algos, etc).
Maybe this is a problem for authors or artists too.
1. Re:thinking about stuff by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  What I hate... I when I'm fixing all these bugs- typing furiously... I'm on a roll- finding solutions to all the corporate problems... and then I realise I'm really in that bizarre between wake-and-sleep stage and I'm not really fixing any bugs- or typing... I'm laying in my bed.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
2. Re:thinking about stuff by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  Get up, write down a list of everything that's on you mind with solutions descriptions. Not code, just ideas.
  Do it routinely. That will stop a large percentage of insomnia.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
3. Re:thinking about stuff by Hillgiant · 2012-03-02 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  More beer.
  
  --
  -
4. Re:thinking about stuff by jones_supa · 2012-03-03 02:00 · Score: 1
  
  I'm a programmer and I can't sleep because I'm thinking about stuff (bugs, better algos, etc).
  Maybe this is a problem for authors or artists too.
  Oh. I have actually found thinking about algorithms (and other engineering problems) a relaxing thing. It's the "counting sheep" for me.
5. Re:thinking about stuff by benhattman · 2012-03-06 17:53 · Score: 1
  
  Or just stop caring so much about the little things. Honestly, engineers take things like code optimization too personally. When you get home, let it go.
The real story.... by hal2814 · 2012-03-02 05:51 · Score: 1

So the difference between least and most is less than 30 minutes? The real story here is occupation makes very little difference in your sleeping habits.
line on economists by ThorGod · 2012-03-02 06:05 · Score: 1

Personally, I would love to know why economists are on this list. Economists in academia, at least, seem to have flexible schedules that should let them get lots of sleep. Maybe a lot of them are grad students scrambling to publish, publish, publish. Or maybe there are a lot of folks like Larry Summers who prefer allocating more hours for work
I'm not going to lecture you on what an economist is and does (I could, I am one). But, I'd prefer if you just kept your prejudiced notions to yourself.

--
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
1. Re:line on economists by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  You just sit around drinking coffee at starbucks discussing the Keynes with other economists don't you?
  No wonder you can't sleep- too much caffeine. ;)
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
2. Re:line on economists by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  I'm actually curious a to why that profession is on the list. Not trolling, just wondering. I had suspected you had an office job, read/write papers and do anylisys for whatever organization hired you. But I am surprised that it's so time consuming you can get 8 hours.
  I know,l this whole post sounds like a troll, but I can't think of any other way to put it.
  I get Cops, Dr.s factory workers. Office workers?
  I woudl pout new parent towards the top of the list!
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
3. Re:line on economists by ThorGod · 2012-03-02 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  I'm actually curious a to why that profession is on the list. Not trolling, just wondering. I had suspected you had an office job, read/write papers and do anylisys for whatever organization hired you. But I am surprised that it's so time consuming you can get 8 hours.
  Well, as for the list, it's separating professions by the exact minute spent sleeping. Is there a difference between 6h1m and 6h10m of sleep? No...Her numbers are bizarre and her use of them all the more questionable.
  Frankly, I don't believe the premise. People are people before they're economists, managers, programmers, engineers, or 'administrators'. What I've read suggests different people require different amounts of sleep to feel rested and those differences are biologically based. I'll leave it for a biologist to discuss the relationship between biology and professional work...I strongly doubt there is one.
  As an economist, you're expected to be able to:
  -communicate well (You have to be able to read, write, and speak effectively.)
  -actually know something about some area of economics. You had better be 'current', meaning reading peer-reviewed journal articles on a daily basis. (If you're good, you don't *just* read economics articles.)
  -have more than the average bear's understanding of statistics
  -solid, general math background (sadly, most skip this, but I believe it to be crucial)
  -some exposure/proficiency with scientific programming (excel and vba are often abused examples, but you wont get far without running into SQL)
  -properly work with, input, and maintain data
  -tackle complex projects that require all of the above (to various extents), but without direction/overview.
  Sometimes you have to do all of that in the same day in addition to teaching class and grading classwork.
  
  --
  PS: I don't reply to ACs.
Any article that cites CPs is good for /.? by PHCOSci · 2012-03-02 06:05 · Score: 1

This study is a joke. The highlight of the article shouldn't be that the word "Computer Programmer" was used. Anyone with half a mind for statistics can see that this hand-waving study is some horribly contrived sociology survey. There is, for any reasonable metric of error, a significant difference between these survey-based data points. New article title: "New York Times will publish any study of any quality if it applies to a broad base of people that might open the link". Bad science in the news is a disease.
But is occupation the reason? by RazorRaiser · 2012-03-02 06:06 · Score: 1

It seems to me like LAN parties and latenight TV would be a much greater sleep distraction than work.
Did they really survey *all* professions? by Colonel+Fahlt · 2012-03-02 06:10 · Score: 1

I'm surprised that some military trades don't make the top five list, just lumping them together as one. (Though I suppose rest periods might average it out.)
Re:thinking about dicks by stevenfuzz · 2012-03-02 06:13 · Score: 1

I like that someone actually used a brain and fingers and time to write this.
Programmer who doesn't sleep by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:15 · Score: 1

I'm a programmer and I probably get 8 hours sleep... over a three-day period.
Got nothing to do with my job. When I get off work- my work stays at work... I'm just a natural insomniac and would not be sleeping no matter what my job.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
IT vs Programmers by geoffrobinson · 2012-03-02 06:15 · Score: 1

I would like to see programmers broken out by IT support, DBAs, etc and normal developers. The first group has to do stuff in the middle of night or respond to emergencies. And I wonder if they are lumped in.

--
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
This has to be a joke. by MacGyver2210 · 2012-03-02 06:16 · Score: 1, Troll

If you're trying to tell me Doctors and Lawyers are more sleep-deprived than I am, you don't know shit.
Let's start with the fact that, as a computer programmer, I make a fraction of what they do - money is a frequent concern and often keeps me up figuring out finances or worrying. It must be tough to budget groceries, gas, and electric bills when you make $300k-$700k per year, right? Shit.
How about housing? I live in a tiny apartment downtown on my salary, while repaying loans, working a job at ~$30,000 a year. I can't afford a mansion in the 'burbs with a huge yard and golf cart paths like they can. I can't even afford a nice luxurious bed to sleep on at night. Clearly, they have it so hard.
Consider transportation for a second. I drive a beat-up, heavily-used 2001 Mitsubishi I paid ~$4500 for, which admittedly just sits there. I hardly drive, if at all. I have gone months without having to drive due to being near lots of shops and working near my home. I still cannot afford a brand-new Mercedes or BMW, let alone two or three of them. I can't afford a plane, despite the fact that I love to fly them. Woe is the doctors and lawyers.
Consider a social life: Doctors? Women are all over them. Being a doctor is chick-bait, though I still don't understand why. Being a Computer Programmer? Yeah, no girl is going to say "Being a computer programmer is SO sexy! Let's go out!". That doesn't happen to us. Jeez, it must suck not having to try, right doc?
Either this is a colossal sign of bad statistical analysis, or doctors and lawyers are all whiny emo bitches who think the grass is always greener.
Fuck this article. It's a joke.

--
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
1. Re:This has to be a joke. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Fuck this article. It's a joke.
  Really? Because from the tone of it, it sounded more like your post was a joke.
2. Re:This has to be a joke. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Go talk to somebody in Residency for five minutes, and see if you still seriously think they're not sleep deprieved. Go talk to the Lawyers at a major lawfirm, ask them how many BILLABLE hours (Not all hours they work are billable) they're EXPECTED to pull each week...
3. Re:This has to be a joke. by DigiShaman · 2012-03-02 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like to me you're in the wrong line of programming. Some coders make 100k a year. But if you're only making 30k, there are several reasons why. First, your work could be easy to outsource for. Second, your employer values your locality. Or third, you're a sucker for accepting this payment. Again, programming isn't the problem here. But perhaps the type of programming you're doing is not very marketable in the workforce.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
4. Re:This has to be a joke. by misexistentialist · 2012-03-02 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  If you were making their hourly rate you'd sleep less. True, you wouldn't feel that you were "deprived", but you'd be tired.
5. Re:This has to be a joke. by geekoid · 2012-03-02 07:13 · Score: 2
  
  This is about your profession, not your economic situation so you are being irrelevant. I no a lot of Drs that work 20 hours at a time.
  And yes, the 'study; is ajoke.
  You need to make a plan to get to a better place. Both career wise and location.
  now, about Dr. Pay:
  http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/
  while more then you paltry sum, certainly not 300-700 K and mansion purchasing.
  Also worth noting, Malpractice can cost from 4K to 85K depending on location and specialty.
  How much insurance do you pay to code?
  Depends on experience and profession.
  Are you a Jr. maintaining some VB app? or are you writing algorithms for wall street trading software?
  One makes a lot less then the other.
  SO to lump all Drs and compare it to YOUR salary is stupid.
  as a side note: 30K US? really? That was my starting salary of 20 years ago. Maybe that because I am on the west cost?
  30K is about 15 an hour.
  Anyways, make a plan, start you own consulting. Move. Also, stop with Graphic design, if you can't get hired by Apple, you're not going to make shit developing UI.
  Sad, but true.
  Make plan livebetter
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
6. Re:This has to be a joke. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yikes. You must not know many doctors, or lawyers for that matter.
  I have two in-laws that are in medical residency right now. They work 14 hour days 7 days a week, alternating between night shifts and day shifts (meaning their sleep cycle is always whacked up). They're also on call for a certain number of the nights they're not working, which means getting pages and phone calls in the middle of the night and having to call in to the hospital (and possibly drive in) to deal with the problems. Not to mention that they regularly have to do 24 hour shifts. Oh, did I mention that they make far less than me, despite having spent 8 more years in school? They're barely able to afford their rent.
  Then there's my friend who's a lawyer. She's a junior lawyer in one of the big firms around here, which means she gets to do all the grunt work for the practice. She works stupid hours, gets the most tedious and painful tasks, and the senior partners treat her and her fellow junior lawyers like pests. And of course, there's her vacations. She has to spend all of her vacation days, and can't come into the office on "vacation". Except the senior partners expect her to still get all her work done. She ends up working from home where she's less efficient, and working even longer hours than normal.
  All in all, I'm thinking my decision to be a computer engineer is pretty darn good. I work 40 hours a week, I have a comfortable salary, and my management treats me like a human being.
7. Re:This has to be a joke. by Mass+Overkiller · 2012-03-02 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Not to be a jerk, but you don't really know what you're talking about. I'm a paramedic and I know first hand that doctors are quite often sleep deprived. I am 100% that you are as well, there is no doubt that computer programmers work hard and long hours, often at little to no extra pay. Yes, doctors make bank money - they should too. They are compensated for their skills and hours. Computer programmers should be paid hansomely as well, but alas they are not. In my first hand experience, doctors typically work 36 hour shifts. That's 36 hours in a row. Yes they are highly paid, and have 3-7 days off after their shift, but 36 hours in a row is nothing to shrug at. As a paramedic I work 3 days in a row; 24 hour on, 24 hours on call, and 24 hours on, with a 24 hour day off, then another 24 hour shift. I then have 4 days off. This is typical of EMS shift work, although not all systems work the same hour schedule. For example, my fire fighter friends work 48 hours on and 96 hours off, rinse and repeat. Yes we have the ability to sleep when we can, but there are times we are busy enough that sleep comes at 3am only to be woken up at 5:30am. This is my first hand knowledge of the subject. I completely understand your point of view - I know many computer programmers who work 60-80 hours a week on salary. They come in at 3am to fix servers or reboot systems. They are not compensated for this extra work. However, to dismiss doctors and EMS because you believe they are not sleep deprived is not true. BTW I am sleep deprived on occasion and I am definitely NOT compensated like a doctor is. In fact EMS providers are some of the lowest paid health professionals in the country. The person who cleans up the emergency rooms makes more than I do, and is part of a union with benefits. I do my job for the satisfaction of helping people and knowing I'm doing the job the right way. It's definitely not for the pay. Plus, the nurses I work with are hot so that's an intangible that comes with the job.
8. Re:This has to be a joke. by j-pimp · 2012-03-02 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  I live in a tiny apartment downtown on my salary, while repaying loans, working a job at ~$30,000 a year.
  That seems really low for a programmer, regardless of what part of the country you are in.
  As a college drop out programmer that started off in IT making less than that doing third shift help desk, I was making more than $30k the first time my title was developer.
  
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Re:thinking about dicks by Mr+Z · 2012-03-02 06:23 · Score: 1

Are you sure he used his fingers? And the brain part is questionable too.

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they are: (...) Plant Operators by hcs_$reboot · 2012-03-02 06:24 · Score: 1

doh! That explains a lot!

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1. Re:they are: (...) Plant Operators by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  Dude... like... uh... I don't know what your getting at man.... dude... what? I need a brownie. Oh Yo Gabba Gabba is on.
  
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Re:WHA... by eternaldoctorwho · 2012-03-02 06:25 · Score: 1

I think that the person with the record of longest time without sleep was a DJ. They used to do these sleep deprivation contests all the time back in the day. There was even an episode of the Dick van Dyke show based on it.
Difficulty parsing by michaelmalak · 2012-03-02 06:28 · Score: 1

I stumbled a few times on "mattress chain Sleepy's" before I realized it wasn't about someone chained to their cubicle with a mattress in it.
Averages mean NOTHING - only my experience matters by Overzeetop · 2012-03-02 06:30 · Score: 1

I don't match any of these averages, so the study is not just flawed and useless but completely misleading! I was up all night just thinking about what I was going to complain about on slashdot today and got less than 2 hours of sleep. These "researchers," if you can even call them that, have absolutely no f*ing idea how taxing it can be to be an internet gadfly.

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Misleading / bad study by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-02 06:30 · Score: 1

This sounds like a horrible study to me, or at least misleading based on the article. I'm a programmer and know a teacher and I know exactly why she sleeps more than me. It's not because my job prevents me from sleeping, it's because her job wears her out and by time she finishes for the day (no, not when school gets out, when she actually finishes work) she's exhausted. As a programmer I can get 6 hours of sleep and still work fine. I don't see anything in this study that proves sleep deprivation over getting less sleep by choice/lack of exertion.
Secretaries? by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-03-02 06:32 · Score: 1

Do secretaries even exist? Where I work, we haven't even had a receptionist for the last ten years.
1. Re:Secretaries? by DigiShaman · 2012-03-02 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer to call em the corporate fuck bunnies. No wonder why many are so deprived of sleep....and walk funny too.
  
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  Life is not for the lazy.
Re:As an ex programmer and ... by garyebickford · 2012-03-02 06:33 · Score: 1

Some of the top paid gov employees in Massachusetts are cops - IIRC a few made more than the governor. A lot of this was overtime they picked up for sitting in a cop car with the lights on at construction zones (yes, in Massachusetts until recently ALL construction zones had to have a cop with the lights flashing, and all flaggers were cops). A year or two ago they managed to get a law passed allowing non-police to do some flagging.

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How much do game developers skew the data? by Cutting_Crew · 2012-03-02 06:34 · Score: 1

i wonder if they counted game developers like EA, MS and a host of others? we all know this sub sector of the programming world is not for people that need 8 - 10 hours of sleep even though for people to be productive the next day that is exactly what they need.
1. Re:How much do game developers skew the data? by Creepy · 2012-03-02 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  EA wasn't too bad for sleep as long as you could sleep on a couch or beanbag chair, desk chair, etc. (I think they even added beds or cots after I left) and didn't mind spending all other waking moments working. I actually didn't mind the normal schedule (10ish hours a day), it was just crunch time when my girlfriend at the time didn't see me for a month because I was at work 24 hours a day.
  Actually, the front of the poll results don't surprise me at all. Doctors and Police Officers get crazy shifts (sometimes 20 hours or more straight). I imagine home health care providers also have crazy shifts. Secretaries kind of surprised me, though.
Agnostic Dyslexics by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-02 06:35 · Score: 1

I'm surprised dyslexic agnostics are not on the list.

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Missing subjects by antant007 · 2012-03-02 06:41 · Score: 1

High school students

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Re:As an ex programmer and ... by geekoid · 2012-03-02 06:47 · Score: 1

Did the construction company reimburse?

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Physical Fatigue of Position Not Considered? by csshelton · 2012-03-02 06:59 · Score: 1

Wouldn't you imagine that highly physical jobs like Forest / Logging Workers, Athletes, Construction Workers, ... require a significant amount of additional sleep to compensate for physical strain (more than 15 minutes)?
Re:thinking about dicks by 19thNervousBreakdown · 2012-03-02 06:59 · Score: 2

A chicken died to make a McNugget to provide the calories for that post.

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Plant operator? by scubamage · 2012-03-02 07:14 · Score: 1

I'm thinking plant operators are intended to mean operations staff for large networks. For instance, in HFC networks we refer to the network as it spreads out from a given CMTS as the plant. Most of the guys in the NOC's that support these things are constantly on call given the amount of customer impact a single problem can cause.
Great! On the top you find by iamweasel · 2012-03-02 07:25 · Score: 1

I'm not surprised, but it's still worrying that the top of the list is full of professions, who we trust to, among other things:
- make quick desicions in potentially life or death situations
- protect / defend us when things go awry
- maintain our savings and to some extent the economy
Just the people we want sleep deprived! I couldn't care less if we programmers don't think we're getting enough sleep. However, I do think most of the other professions on the list should definitely get plenty!
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2012-03-02 07:28 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Re:Nor parents. by CohibaVancouver · 2012-03-02 07:54 · Score: 1

Parents of young children are obviously more sleep deprived than any of the above.
Damn right, but it's a dangerous thing to point out on Slashdot. Any kid related post usually results in vitriolic "more fool you for having kids" replies.
Slashdot Editors Must be Even More Sleep Deprived by alcmaeon · 2012-03-02 08:00 · Score: 1

Because if you actually read the chart in TFA, Programmers are 7th, not 5th.
Re:Apropos... by GameboyRMH · 2012-03-02 08:06 · Score: 1

I lol'd XD

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Parent by digitallife · 2012-03-02 08:13 · Score: 1

The most sleep deprived profession is parenthood. The fact that taking care of kids isn't considered a 'job' is one of the great tragedies of our times. Without a doubt it is one of the most useful jobs for our societies, and one of the hardest. My experience with staying home and taking care of a child was that it was about 3x harder than a job (in IT). The second child was 2x harder again. And I get paid nothing (tax wise). The government would rather my child getting far inferior care in daycare - because apparently that's a 'real' job.
7h3m for Computer Programmers? by GoblinKing · 2012-03-02 08:24 · Score: 1

I have 8 kids ... I don't think that being a computer programmer is why I'm sleep deprived ...
Hell! I would LOVE to ONLY get 7h of sleep ... I think 6h is a more realistic target.
Bullshit by NicknameAvailable · 2012-03-02 08:27 · Score: 1

The military is the most sleep deprived profession - sleep deprivation isn't only a training tactic in boot camp, it is also a mechanism to induce stress while in garrison - keeping soldiers on edge enough they don't lose it in war.
Re:Slashdot Editors Must be Even More Sleep Depriv by Rary · 2012-03-02 09:22 · Score: 1

No, the problem is that they get too much sleep.
Maybe someday one of them will get up and actually show up to work. I'm doubtful, though.

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I'm not sleep-deprived by msobkow · 2012-03-02 09:26 · Score: 1

I'm alertness-challenged. :P

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Want to sleep more? by EmagGeek · 2012-03-02 10:17 · Score: 1

Stop living off of Doritos and Red Bull.
Students by declanmar · 2012-03-02 13:57 · Score: 1

They must not classify "student" as a Profession, but if it was, I wonder how high it would be?

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~Declan~
Any idea why by perlchild · 2012-03-02 16:13 · Score: 2

The fine summary lists a bunch of jobs with on-call requirements(health aides, nurses) then drops to computer programmers?
Wouldn't sysadmins and other operations personnel(network engineers, site reliability engineers, etc) be more likely to lose sleep?
Re:Only ten minutes behind, 5th is still pretty ba by jones_supa · 2012-03-03 02:02 · Score: 1

Ok, no more beer for you tonight...
Film and tv by soundguy4film · 2012-03-03 05:15 · Score: 1

Film and tv knocks all of these out of the water. We work harder and longer hours than any other profession I have ever seen. I know medical professionals and lawyers have it way easier than we do. I really don't see the problem though lawyers and doctors and film professionals get paid really well for their long hours.
Re:Lawyers? by Flere+Imsaho · 2012-03-04 08:45 · Score: 1

Could you sleep at night if you were a lawyer, knowing all the evil shit you'd done?
Hang on, I'm implying lawyers have a conscience - objection withdrawn.

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