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Is Onlive Pirating Windows and Will It Cost Them?
An anonymous reader writes "When Onlive, the network gaming company, started offering not just Microsoft Windows but Microsoft Office for free on the iPad, and now on Android, it certainly seemed too good to be true. Speculation abounded on what type of license they could be using to accomplish this magical feat. From sifting through Microsoft's licenses and speaking with sources very familiar with them, the ugly truth may be that they can't."
and will you swallow? YES and YES!
I've been thoroughly enjoying it.
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
Is it their fault that Microsoft didn't think they were literal when they wrote the planet Earth in as their location?
They are probably using the SPLA for this. That allows you to license software for your service on a monthly basis.
Seriously with Ubuntu Linux finally showing some decent polish and usability (yes yes I am referring to Unity which I have gotten used to) and OSX also available who really shives a git about Microsoft?
Let them drown in their cesspool! The problem of Microsoft is simple, they have tons of 20 year veterans in the middle tier running the show. These people believe that if we copy or provide similar features all will be ok on the USS Microsoft. What they don't realized is that they are fucked! With Windows 8 people will realize how dead this ship is. Sure Microsoft will still sell lots and lots of licenses to existing customers (can't underestimate their ability to squezze profits), but it is the next generation that will not pull along.
As somebody who used my last Windows operating system with Windows 7 I can say Microsoft is truly fucked! And I have been using Windows since 3.0 back in 1990!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
(i know, i know.. i will punish myself later)
i read this as being: onlive is not presently legit but microsoft is playing nice (i.e. squeezing them for every last nickel without involving more than a few lawyers) for now -- until they lose patience (or feel threatened by being beating to market by an upstart.. not once but twice) and bring the sledgehammer down on onlive's entire business model -- windows and office desktop and gaming platform (xbox and windows games, at least)
âoebut do you know how to check and is there any point checking when we already know NSA/KGB, etc etc have the globe encircled with satellites?â
try lining your windows with tinfoil and check it after a few months. Youâ(TM)ll discover straight LINES and DOTS (tiny peep holes). This is with the tinfoil on the inside of the windowsâ(TM) surface, in-house/apartment. What causes this?
I believe most, if not all consumer computers and devices are, if not monitored, swept and mirrored by big bro using satellite technology.
One anonymous poster to pastebin, claiming to be representitive of Mossad, fired a shot across the bow of Anonymous and other hackers by saying, paraphrased, âoeAll of your hard drives are mirrored in (locations A,B,C as I forget which countries were mentioned) certain places on Earth anyway.
I find this to be true, Iâ(TM)ve used Microsoftâ(TM)s SysInternals programs to monitor processes and discovered my drives being swept, a chat program running I never installed and could find no trace of, files where they had the most interest were mp3 and graphics files, but they scraped the whole drive, and an iso creator/mirroring utility was running.
You only make it easier for them if you willingly install video streaming programs (VLC) with command line counterparts, music programs with command line counterparts, Office programs, which I noticed PDF files were being made in the background, and all of this activity was happening when I was monitoring a computer isolated from any wired/wireless/LAN network(s).
Google: Subversion Hack archive for a glimpse into this mysterious activity
Itâ(TM)s all about the waves.
==
âoeWell, if this is true or not, I cannot tell, because I use GNU/Linux,â
The same is true for *nix, you just have to have the right monitoring tools and know what to look for inside binaries which are easily messed with by injecting malware into them and tools used by âoeTHEMâ to obscure the code injected into the ELF binaries so as to avoid being picked up as malware.
One simple command you can use to check for modifications to your files:
sudo find /usr/bin -mtime -60
That will search /usr/bin for files modified within 60 minutes, adjust the command as needed for other directories and time frames.
ALWAYS generate sha256sums or better (NOT MD5 or SHA1) of your initial install and the LiveCD and store them on a READ ONLY media like a once writable CDROM. The free utility known as âoemd5deepâ offers more than md5 checksum generation and unlike the simple tools like sha256sum, sha1sum, etc., md5deepâ(TM)s options offer RECURSIVE and directory stripping options, perfect for backup on CDROMs.
Hereâ(TM)s one example out of many mysterious *nix trojans floating about:
- Linux/Bckdr-RKC
â"- http://caffeinesecurity.blogspot.com/2012/02/linuxbckdr-rkc-still-undetected.html
âoeFor those who arenâ(TM)t familiar with this trojan, an anonymous internet user has taken the time to put together a Pastebin post highlighting my research on this trojanâ: http://pastebin.com/DwtX9dMd
More questions without answers:
- Malware for Windows, *nux (and MacOSX?) which HIDES in FIRMWARE on routers, PCI and AGP cards and devices (including CD burners), system BIOS, MBRs, ethernet (nic) cards most if not all surviving hard drive wipes/formats and preloaded again and updated âoethrough-the-airâ mysteriously or when youâ(TM)ve plugged into the net.
- Ethernet cards using packet radio modules/protocols
- Linux distributions including LiveCDs including more modules than they need to run, especially for LiveCD purposes, including build essentials, dpkg-dev, ISDN drivers/modules (sometimes in multiple places, as binary files and
but I'm going to get it and the fact that it may screw MS makes it a bit sweeter.
, the ugly truth may be that they can't.
Well, no, not in your crappy backwater country, and not with some locked down hardware like an ipad. But in more sensible and advanced societies like, er, China, these kinds of things are readily available, and cheaper too.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
The trick when you're planning to do something like this is to pick a large organization like Microsoft so that by the time they realize you're trolling they're licensing system you've made enough money to survive the lawsuits.
If Amazon EC2 can license Windows, surely OnLive can. Microsoft won't turn down an opportunity to make more money.
Yes, many MS products can be licensed on a per processor basis under SPLA. Microsoft Office is not one of these. SPLA is actually the easiest of MS's licensing offerings to understand and comply with. A pity they didn't check the article content with anyone who knows anything about it.
TFA title: Question? Assume-Answer-Is-Affirmative-And-Speculate-On-Negative-Consequences-And-Ignore-Possiblity-That-Question-Might-Be-Answered-Negatively.
It's fun but not really all the useful. I'm sure whatever Microsoft does specifically for the iPad will be much better plus this gets people used to MS Office on the iPad and kinda sets up the market for the real stuff coming up. So MS is probably just letting it happen and watching intently.
that OnLive is buying licenses for paying customers who need to use their shitty, bloated OS and office suite. If they cut off OnLive from essentially being a license broker, those people are going to look elsewhere for alternative solutions for this type of software on mobile devices (e.g. iWork, QuickOffice, DocsToGo). In this scenario, they lose out completely.
Would this mean a Cyber Cafe is also in violation? Is the license saying you can't rent out Window 7 machines? Or just that you can't rent out Window 7 machines over a network?
âoeGoogle is seriously the worst company of all time. They literally want to control everything you do on the internet. Do some research and stop using google and other google-related entities altogether, or at least not as much. I know itâ(TM)s hard, but really google is pretty much big brother in the 1984 senseâ¦always watchinâ(TM) ya!â
Drugs are bad, mmmmmmkay?
Every service Google offers is an open ended choice for you to use.
Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s search engine? No.
Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s e-mail? No.
Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s Chrome? No.
Are you foced to use Googleâ(TM)s ChromeOS? No.
And so it goes with their other products.
Google is not The Catholic Church in the dark ages giving people over to local authorities so they can burn them as heretics. The army of paid shills and clueless users both stomping around on the internet crying âoeDead Man Walking!â over Googleâ(TM)s actions are disgusting and without cause. If you know anything about software and hardware and how easily they both can be manipulated on any OS through poisoned hardware/software/other vectors youâ(TM)d know privacy is DEAD.
ALL electronic devices are easily POISONED by the right organizations/individuals.
When you shuffle into a store selling computers, what Operating System is pre-loaded on the majority of consumer computers?
Microsoft Windows.
Are you forced to use Microsoft Windows?
No, but if youâ(TM)re not intelligent enough to request a Windows refund, install your own OS after formatting the drive, or buy from a vendor offering other pre-loaded OS options, how many choices are you offered?
Report back to us after youâ(TM)ve visited ten stores selling computers, ask them what Operating Systems are pre-loaded on the desktops and laptops.
Iâ(TM)m telling you right now, the answer will be 99 â" 100% Microsoft Windows.
You can search on the web and read about the lawsuit(s) and the âoeOEM dealsâ throughout history with Windows. For most people walking into a store, programmed to believe Windows IS the PC
(Iâ(TM)m a PC (Windows) Iâ(TM)m a Mac (MAC OS X) is an example of more media programming to drill it into your head that a PC must equal Windows)
(And what of the other commercials where they say âoeIâ(TM)m a PC!â and what Operating System are they pimping?)
and the IE icon IS the internet, where is the choice? How many of these people know how to install another OS?
How do most Microsoft Windows installation CD-ROMs treat your hard drive when you install it? Most versions TAKE OVER the drive and the MBR, never offering you a CHOICE to install any other OS except Microsoft Windows! Where is the choice in this? If you install another OS along side it and decide to reinstall most versions of Windows, what happens to the MBR? Thatâ(TM)s correct, Windows OVERWRITES IT, killing your dual boot option until you manually restore it after digging through documentation, or giving up and re-installing your other OS in tandem.
For many. many years, Windows only included IE as the default browser. In some countries like America, it may still be true that IE is the only preloaded browser option, I donâ(TM)t know) It has been called a free offering from Microsoft, yet itâ(TM)s pre-loaded and closed source, meaning you have to run it in Windows (or maybe Mac OS X) or try your hand at emulating it on Linux through WINE.
Tell me how many choices of Operating Systems pre-loaded on computers you have out in the stores apart from Windows. You can try looking on-line, but most on-line corporate websites which offer alternative OSs BURY the alternative OS in difficult to find pages, or donâ(TM)t offer them at all on a pre-loaded system.
How many document formats or media forums in the history of Windows have been required to or MUST STILL be opened on a Microsoft
Microsoft licensing can be complex, but a service that offers office for free for end users? How long did these guys think they would get away with this? They are lucky that Microsoft is lenient with true-up licensing. However, how much are they going to have to fork out for all the current users of the product who haven't given them a dime. There is no way this service will continue without costing end users the same as it would for any other service. That's if they don't go bankrupt first.
The same thing would be happen if somebody setup a service hosting OS X and iLife.
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If it's not already clear, darn tootin' the next version of the volume license agreement will contain the "OnLive" clause that expressly forbids it...
TFA:
> The Windows 7 desktop just plain can’t be rented
I guess it's not precisely Windows 7, but I seem to be able to rent full Windows instances from EC2 for .12 / hour.
Fair question which merits discussion. First, sreaming Crysis ... now pirating Office?
I hate to troll, but still think this company is trying to peddle technology that just isn't in demand, and when it is will be done by Apple, Microsoft, Google, or Sony.
I, for one, applaud any and all efforts to reduce the prevalence and use of Microsoft windows and office. Especially in the exploding mobile market where MS has practically 0 market share and has been unable to inflict its usual damage yet. With enough proactive efforts like these, MS will never gain a foothold in mobile and will helpfully fade along with the declining PC market.
I still don't quite understand OnLive's business model, or why anyone would go for it. I know how it works, they render everything server-side and send you compressed video - fine. The roundtrip latency is probably not all that bad, as long as you have a short route to the server. I'm fine with the technical aspects, but what about the money ? It seems to me like the only way they can make a buck is via mass pirating.
Those servers can't be cheap, each one is basically a mid-range gaming rig with a hardware video encoder, and can only serve one user at a time. Each needs a copy of the OS and games. You're basically renting access to a $1000+ gaming rig, plus bandwidth. Sure, the benefit is that just about any internet-connected device can now "play" PC games, but how does OnLive turn a profit ? Do they pool the game licenses so they only need as many paid keys as there are simultaneous players ? Or is this like all those ridiculous startups from the dot-com bust, where they spend fucktons of VC money and die a horribly quick death ?
Don't get me wrong, I like the technical merits of OnLive. Even as we said "this will never work", well surprise: it works amazingly well for many people. I just can't see how they can deliver this without charging fucktons of money for the privilege.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Most of the "you are not allowed to rent some software" licenses are invalid in many countries. So if they are hosting outside of US, it may be just okay.
Why would someone want to combine the overpriced hardware of Apple with the shitty software of MS?
I know what a PITA my most fav program is
here's a quote I found in about 4 seconds via google and site:libreoffice.org
"Opening MS Publisher files: Probably will never be implemented - not even other products by MS can open them. "
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
It's not clear to me what this software does, but if it's a terminal-like thingie that runs apps remotely rather than on the iPad (and that's believable, since the iPad isn't going to be able to run x86 code worth a damn), then it might be that Onlive merely installed Windows on some of their own computers, or maybe even bought them with Windows preloaded.
If that's what happened (especially if it's a preload), they might not be using licenses at all. Microsoft also doesn't sell any licenses that allow users to run Dwarf Fortress, but Windows users don't care, because they don't need any special permissions to do that; there's not a single word in copyright law saying Dwarf Fortress can't be run without authorization from the OS' copyright holder, just like there isn't anything saying an OS' copyright holder needs to authorize running X11 clients or "terminal servers" or whatever.
What I'm getting at is that Microsoft doesn't have a say in the matter for how Windows gets used/em>, so their statements about their licenses are irrelevant, unless Onlive is violating copyright. And maybe Onlive is doing that (are the iPads running copies of Windows?) but it's not clear they are.
This is Microsoft we're talking about.
Of course it's going to cost 'em!
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Couldnt they get around the licensing by just giving people who log in a virtual machine running datacenter? Wouldnt that get them around the licensing?
As long as they're not based in the U.S., no one really cares about copyright. The WHOLE rest of the world half-asses the enforcement of IP protection in comparison. The only news that ever happen in that field are always caused by US interests trying to force a shrill, paranoid climate of fear of reprisal for innovating anything at all without having paid everyone else in the industry.
Abolish IP, solve the problem, adapt or die.
Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
Disclaimer: I worked there for two years, though I haven't been with OnLive since early 2010 (before the OnLive Desktop). I do not hold any OnLive or Microsoft stock at this time, and therefore don't have a horse in this race. It's just amusing to watch.
Something to consider. Steve Perlman, their CEO, was also the CEO of WebTV, which was sold to Microsoft. He knows the Microsoft execs at the highest level, and has a good business relationship with them. He also isn't stupid. I know that it's trendy to be cynical and hipster-esque about these things, and that it generates page views (and revenue from advertising, hence the motivation for TFA to appear as it did) to make this sort of speculation, but common sense dictates that no company of OnLive's size would do something as blatant and as public as wholesale commercial piracy. There is far too much to lose and very little to gain. In fact, one of OnLive's messages to software publishers is "software installed on OnLive cannot be pirated, because there is no external access to the binaries". Short of a hack that allows access to the back-end servers, you can no more pirate an app from OnLive than you can pirate AutoCAD by taking a photograph of the box. In that context, does any of TFA make sense?
In fact, the entire article seems to come down to "I, random bloggy guy with zero personal access to what's actually happening, am not aware of a licensing program that fits, therefore such a licensing program does NOT exist, and CANNOT exist. I'm not smart enough or educated enough or informed enough know how it works, therefore it cannot work." Pretty thin, if you ask me.
I do not have firsthand knowledge of this, but I know the people involved, at least on the OnLive side. They're not PirateBay; they are thoughtful people who are aware of the consequences of their actions and who want good business relationships with software publishers (including Microsoft). I think it is very likely that there is a deal in place which might not be a boilerplate license. It is also possible that such a license is part of a larger framework.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
More importantly, can I run Magic Jellybean KeyFinder on it?