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Japan's Nuclear Energy Industry Nears Shutdown
mdsolar sends this quote from an article at the NY Times:
"All but two of Japan's 54 commercial reactors have gone offline since the nuclear disaster a year ago, after the earthquake and tsunami, and it is not clear when they can be restarted. With the last operating reactor scheduled to be idled as soon as next month, Japan — once one of the world's leaders in atomic energy — will have at least temporarily shut down an industry that once generated a third of its electricity. With few alternatives, the prime minister, Yoshihiko Noda, has called for restarting the plants as soon as possible, saying he supports a gradual phase-out of nuclear power over several decades. Yet, fearing public opposition, he has said he will not restart the reactors without the approval of local community leaders."
Need login to read an article? Really??
No sig today...
And a year ago you were laughing at Germany going non-nuclear.
Now it is a competition between Germany and Japan to innovate the non-nuclear market with their new technologies.
...in the candle industry.
When government and businesses are in bed with each other, people get hurt.
With the shutdowns, costs for electricity, etc, will go up due to law of supply and demand. And the people won't like it, and blame the government...will be wonderous.
I guess with 1/3rd of their power offline, they could mandate energy rations to everyone. If they get tired of that system they can, as a community, opt to re-instate their reactors and make a long term plan to switch to some other non-petroleum source for power. They have brilliant scientists, I'm sure they can figure this out. Greed seems like less of a hindrance there than here in the USA.
Danish television had a reportage on the effect of the Fukushima incident on the people living nearby.
After seeing the reportage, I can understand why they are shutting down the other reactors for the time being. It's one thing reading that nuclear power plants statistically kills very few compared to other sources of energy, it's another thing when you have to leave your ancestors home for 12 generations, or be stuck with a house that nobody will buy because even if it's outside the immediate danger zone and the authorities say it's safe, noone wants to take the risk.
Whether fair or not, the incident violated the trust people had in the administrators of the nuclear tech, and it's going to take something to earn that trust back.
And what are Japan, Germany, etc. going to do for energy once they've phased out their big, scary nuclear power plants? Unless they find a way to quickly and effectively implement large-scale solar plants/farms, geothermal, etc. they're going to resort to burning fossil fuel. A big step backwards because, under extreme circumstances, nuclear can be dangerous.
You know what's even more dangerous than an accident at a nuclear plant? A world-wide war over the planet's dwindling fossil fuel supplies.
My dad was saying that Tokyo is depressing, apparently there are power shortages so most of the signs and escalators are turned off and the city is dark. How are they supposed to make up their energy requirements if they stop using nuclear?
I care not for your karma and your mod points.
Except in one important area: Meeting demand.
... but probably not much more than some of the more +1 Insightful commenters here.
The core of their problem is arrogance and the influence business has over government regulators. The days of shoguns and daimyos are long behind Japan but somehow the mindset still lives on. There are a few very large companies in Japan with a rich and tight lineage that dates back to before the Meiji restoration. Their influence over government and their "job-for-life" filial piety along with their reluctance to challenge the people "in charge" of things has led to a poorly regulated nuclear industry which allowed the Fukushima disaster to occur.
But Japan is not "unique" in this. It just so happens that they were the first to get tripped up with a natural disaster. But that said, they did a lot of things in the handling that simply made it worse and worse. (Still, they came in 2nd when you compare Fukushima to the BP oil spill and BP's handling of that.) In the US, the nuclear industry and been playing a pushing game where the NRC pushes the nuclear energy companies and the nuclear energy companies push back through various means not the least of which are lobbying and other forms of politics. One difference between the US and Japan is found in the success of independent watchdog groups who take personal interest in the environment and the safety of nuclear energy. Greenpeace is a huge annoyance, but they also serve an important purpose in that they can and do bring light to problems that would otherwise be swept under the rug. This exists less in Japan and problems that some people have knowledge of are often unheard and cannot speak. Their lack of openness is a critical problem.
My initial reaction to this turn is that Japan is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. They are an emotional and over-reaction group of people. But the US made them that way.... the US did it to Germany as well. When we 'pacified' them over the decades, we shifted their thinking and their sense of reason. So instead of saying "okay, here are the causes of the problem, let's fix them!" they are more concerned about who is to blame and are focusing on the fact that nuclear energy is an awesome and powerful source of energy which is also very dangerous. Well, yes... yes it is. But they forget that it's also controllable and containable with vigilant regulation and oversight.
Vigilance of regulation and oversight are expensive... and annoying... and definitely slow things down and make things cost more. But without it...?
Can you give an example that has equivalent output/density and is not fossil fuel powered?
Just another ignorant American.
Many of the Japanese nuclear plants are old unsecure BWRs, they should start working on safer ones so they can shut them down in 10 years.
I'm not Japanese, but I'm pretty sure the only people opposing nuclear power in Japan are in politics and fearmongers from other countries. Sounds like a global politics issue, which is stupid.
I'm sure the citizens will be thrilled when they drop coal burning plants down right next to the nuclear plants that didn't emit any sort of noticeable byproducts.
It's a reasonable question. They are going to have to get their electricity from somewhere & generating capacity don't grow on trees.
They don't have a lot of fossil fuels, so they are going to be importing coal, oil or gas. Coal plants take time to build, although they are easier than nuclear. Gas turbines are relatively quick and cheap to commission but the cost of fuel is extortionate right now & unlikely to improve.
Germany are taking the route of pretending to get by with wind power by importing nuclear electricity from France. That doesn't work for Japan.
Fossil fuel power is even more expensive, generates toxic gasses and residue, and does contaminate large areas of land. It also has the problem that the fuel is running out.
Sometimes you have to pick an option that is not perfect, and nuclear was a perfectly good slice in the energy mix. Shutting it down suddenly just causes supply shortages.
... that they're currently shipping in in vast quantities? I'm sure thats doing wonders for their CO2 footprint.
Nuclear power is dangerous, coal/oil power is dirty, wind power ruins the scenery, solarpower too expensive/inefficient and waterpower is bad for the fish population. Seriously if we are the dominant species on Earth why are we being held back by these counter-evolutionary thoughts. Stagnation is death!
http://FORA.TV has an hour-long, in-depth talk on gov't / industry corruption in Japan by Mafia-like gangs:
+ Tokyo Underworld 2012: An Evening with Robert Whiting
The talk - summarising the speaker's book - covers origins going way back (eg, WW 2) through current involvement in gov't, CONSTRUCTION industry, etc.
With so MUCH money going into private pockets, ie, instead of buying what was needed for safer designs and/or better built nuclear power plants, you gotta ask: How much of Japan's current nuclear energy shutdown/crisis is due to [eg, Yakusa] corruption?
According to the author, here's a political side to all of this, some of which involves the US's (then) fight against Communism, etc.
I don't recall the author trying to link the corruption to construction issues with Japan's nuclear power plants, but it might be looked into.
You could even wonder how much devastation corruption may have caused to Japan's larger economy both before & since the power plants disasters.
(I don't like this author's chances of surviving the publication of his book, but... as a Disclaimer: I have -nil- to do with any Mafia-like undergrounds. :-)
"Yet, fearing public opposition, he has said he will not restart the reactors without the approval of local community leaders."
Local leaders: "No."
Then what? It's not like Japan has loads of alternatives, especially given it has almost zero domestic fossil fuel supply.
They are going to have to get their electricity from somewhere & generating capacity don't grow on trees.
Unless they burn, um, err, apples? Yes, APPLES!
Man, I'm awesome!
Great... we have politics trumping both science and democracy.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Apples?? I dunno.. their pulp looks too bland to be useful.
Sounds to me like the juice from Japanese Cherries contains more anthocyanins to put into your el-cheapo Grätzel solar cell. (Are Anthocyanins actually any good for that? Could you use blueberry juice instead?)
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
Germany are taking the route of pretending to get by with wind power by importing nuclear electricity from France. That doesn't work for Japan.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/14/europe-power-supply-idUSL5E8DD87020120214
I love that Japan decided to move over 1/3 of their energy production away from the safest, most cost-efficient form of heat-power generation, and revert to something colossally terrible for the environment, with really no plan to do so in place. Clearly the best possible outcome, with the best results for everyone involved. /s
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
France relies heavily on shitty heating equipment, France's homes are, generally, pretty shittily insulated against the elements (they lost more to a warm month than we have in Iraq and Afghanistan), and Germany fired up coal plants to meet demand.
Where's the news here?
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
From what I read in the western media, TEPCO is losing incredible amounts of money cleaning up the Fukushima mess.
The Japanese also seem less than happy ("Private panel blames TEPCO's 'systematic negligence'") [note to Slashdot readers: that Asahi Shimbun newspaper doesn't seem to have a paywall].
However, I also read that TEPCO was strongly involved in developing Sodium-Sulfur batteries to help solve the storage problem associated with large rollout of intermittent electricity generators (i.e. solar only when it's sunny and wind turbines only when it's windy). Anything else than Sodium-Sulfur or other cheap redox couples, is probably too expensive for real large-scale use.
So, I really hope that the battery division of TEPCO survives any lawsuits/bankruptcy procedures/government sanctions because they seem to be working on transitioning Japan away from the nuclear addiction and towards a very clean (but slightly explosive) technology that the rest of the world is probably eager to share.
Anybody in Japan please comment if this makes sense. I don't read Japanese and have never been there.
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
Japan must have a ton of redundancy to be able to handle having so many reactors offline and still have enough power for everyone. I doubt the US is so well prepared.
THIS THIS THIS A MILLION TIMES THIS!
Nuclear power is God's holy power that is BEYOND the RIGHT of mankind to tamper with.
Trample in God's holy ground and YE SHALL BE PUNISHED!
Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukushima... Who is next?
Mankind must immediate cease all nuclear technology and KILL all who possess it.
Anyone who sees God's holy power must die in God's purifying fire.
Give to God what is God's, and give Caesar what is Caesar's!
There can be no compromise!
just to post high enough that it'll be read, not that anyone with an opinion would care about mine:
That's fucking retarded. Japan is afraid of nuclear power now, what with being the only nation ever to have been a-bombed. Officials pander to a scared public by shutting down nuclear power although it's demonstrably safer and ecologically better than every other alternative.
Wind and solar are too weak, end of story.
Burning stuff is stupidly dirty. Coal power plants release even more radioactive crap than nuclear disasters, and that's nothing compared to the footprint of their carbon emission, without even beginning to count the other reasons those plants should have disappeared.
Marine barrages genocide entire ecosystems. What do you think happens when you block the tides with kilotons of concrete?
What else is there?
Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
I'll take bureaucratic overreactions to luddite alarmism for 100 Alex!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Next we need to outlaw all fossil fuels and unwind the clock 200 years.
I agree in concept, but apples are too delicious in pies. Instead, burn rhubarb (sick!). Now can I hold your Nobel for a minute?
For everything you describes, coal is worse.
I wonder what power the plan on using. I know I'm hoping they use their awesome engineering to make new renewable sources.
"Why are they pushing this nuclear protection at us so strong? Do they know something bad's gonna happen soon? Did something bad happen already and they just silenced it? What are they hiding? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING??!!1"
Demand and supply are interdependent. If you increase supply, demand grows accordingly, and if you cut supply or make it more expensive, demand goes down too. Not immediately of course, but after a transitional period where the system re-balances itself. The less power, the more pressure there will be on converting to more energy efficiency.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Those precious kids might not have heating in winter.
Increasing reliance on petroleum-based sources of energy will lead to balance of trade issues, as more oil will have to be imported. This can have rolling consequences in GDP (GDP includes (imports - exports)) and currency valuation. This may also make it much more difficult to finance the large public debt, as you will need to sell more debt outside the country.
It's unfortunate Japan was not using thorium reactors. If they had, none of this would've happened and they would be enjoying unlimited amounts of fiscally sustainable, safe energy without the risks of conventional nuclear nor the fiscal unsustainability of solar and wind power.
Like all nuclear^H^H^H^H^H^H^H power plants, Fukushima needed a massive body of water to assist in cooling the plant.
A basic problem with some reactor designs is that a loss of control power causes core damage. The GE Mark 1 will suffer core damage after only one hour of station blackout, and a meltdown after about 14 hours. This was well known in the industry.
A few weeks ago, Slashdot posted transcripts of meetings after the Fukushima disaster. The NRC people immediately referred to the studies of the Peach Bottom plant (a GE Mark 1 in Pennsylvania), knowing quite well that a station blackout or loss of cooling water supply would cause a meltdown. There was no argument at the NRC meeting - everyone in the meeting was familiar with that risk.
"How many people die of coal-mining related illnesses? "
From Japan's point of view, these people are Chinese and not Japanese, and don't vote.
G e o t h e r m a l
Help stamp out iliturcy.
An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs.
DEO GRATIAS.
JAPAN is still the leader in nuke technology, cause they are realizing how DANGEROUS it is....
ONE meltdown brought down ussr, we are deluding ourselves to think that this will be easy for japan to overcome... and even though shutting down a plant costs more than running it, it's WORTH IT.
pax et bonum to all my fellow living creatures that glow in the dark more than just a little bit since last march....
anyone remember for how long last year they said it was hardly a problem, then there was not a meltdown, no radiation, it would take not even 5 minutes to clean up the mess, yadda?
Right on, brother.
I only visit slashdot once in a while. I can't stand this place for more than a few minutes. 99.9% of the commenters are brain damaged nerds with no idea how the world really works.
The events of 3/11/2011 and up to this day show a startling discovery.
The people of Nippon lack the ability to comprehend.
Wether the PM, or TEPCO Executives, Mayors, or Local peoples, they all exhibit a lack of the ability to comprehend.
I wonder if this is an effect of the intense carpet bombing of Nippon during WWII (the Nipponese still refer to this as the 'Pacific War' perhaps deflecting their involvment in World War 0 and World War I). The effect of that is that the population was decimated and most of the survivors are of very limited intellectual capicity. Hence through in-breeding post-WWII the Nippon people are on the verge of extinction.
Likely the federal state of Nippon will continue for a few more decades, perhaps no more than three. But, the end result is the extinction of the Nipponese.