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TVShack Creator's US Extradition Approved
chrb writes "British student Richard O'Dwyer, creator of the TVShack website, has had his extradition to the United States approved by Conservative Home Secretary Theresa May. Mr. O'Dwyer now has 14 days to appeal the decision. The extradition was requested by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which has accused O'Dwyer of aiding copyright infringement by publishing links to pirated content hosted on external sites."
I'm more afraid of the US government than I am of any terrorists.
Way to go big boys! Extradite a harmless college kid who might be doing something moderately illegal but who's transgressions don't amount for a hill of beans, all things considered.
Leave those nice bankers and upstanding Wall Street financiers to ruin the economy with nothing more than an indignant letter and a small fine.
Yep, leaders of the free world we are.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
What's wrong with the U.K laws on copyright infringement that a U.K. citizen needs to be shipped to a foreign country to face this kind of stuff? I don't remember any U.S. citizens getting shipped to some other country for this?
There's really not much more to say.
Other than to wonder why the fuck all these other countries are bending over like our bitch. At the rate we're going you won't be getting much out of america in exchange for your citizens rights.
Going after sites that are not even registered in the US? Going after kids that aren't US citizens? Sure there are laws. That doesn't mean those laws are correct or right.
Well what do you expect, only days before the great Dave is going "Round the World" for a close lick of the Presidential orifice, who knows what he wants from the USA, I guess the UK will be paying for it for years.
Why isn't the U.S. on the Enemies of the Internet 'under surveillance' list? Russia and Australia and the UK are there, but the U.S. isn't? It makes no logical sense.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
The problem is the UK government.
Extradited for copyright infringement? Looks like both governments are "pwned". I know, lets make them bigger, that'll solve the problem.
Deleted
The rich rule. The rich have always ruled, and always will rule.
When some non-rich punk does something that pisses the rulers off, expect punishment.
"Justice" is just a fancy word the rich use to get the poor to buy in to their rulership. There is no reason to be surprised when any real sort of justice is sacrificed for the sake of enforcement of the Highest Law (the rich are entitled to wealth).
Something that is important to point out: competence and popular approval have *no bearing whatsoever* on actual power. All that matters is wealth.
This will teach you to launch a suicide attack on our entertainment industry, you monster!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
For posting a bunch of links, he is being extradited? Well, I guess that is what happens when politicians accept bribes from the copyright lobby...
Palm trees and 8
So, what this guy did is not a crime in the UK, but because it is in the US he is being sent to stand trial there. Basically, UK citizens are subject to US law (albeit it can only be selectively applied).
Something to worry about for everyone in a country that has an extradition treaty with US.
Way to go big boys! Extradite a harmless college kid who might be doing something moderately illegal but who's transgressions don't amount for a hill of beans, all things considered.
Leave those nice bankers and upstanding Wall Street financiers to ruin the economy with nothing more than an indignant letter and a small fine.
Yep, leaders of the free world we are.
You dirty, diseased hippie! Do you not understand the ineffable majesty of the free market? Behold! Mammon hath spoken and lo, the government has acceded to its demand. In my father's house there are many rooms but you have to pay your way if you want to stay. The bankstas have bought their way into heaven, as hath been shewn to be just in the Gospel of Wealth.
Blessed are the rich: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who own: for to those who hath much, more shall be given.
Fuck the meek: for they shall inherit shit.
Fuck those who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be mulch in the flowerbeds of the wealthy.
Blessed are the powerful: for they shall gain more power.
Blessed are the pure of avarice: for they shall take more than they are owed.
Blessed are the warmakers: for they shall make bank on both sides of the conflict.
Blessed are those who persecute: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
ACTA has not been ratified by the US Congress so it's not legal here, and as far as I know it is not yt legal there, so why are the dumbass cops and judges going along with it?
Additionally, providing links to stuff, is not excuse for prosicuting them.
Everybody remember this. DEMAND A TRIAL BY JURY. that in itself can be a denial of service attack, but don't mention that part.
His extradition is definitely a crock. If what he did is not a crime under UK law, then it shouldn't matter if it is under US law. I'm sure many things I do are crimes in other countries, but if they asked the US to extradite me they would be laughed at. The internet is an international entity (will more specifically, it is non-national). If someone does something on the internet that is legal in their country, then that is all that matters. If someone from your country accesses it and they shouldn't, deal with the people who fall under your laws.
As for what he actually did, I am torn on it. He obviously did not actively violate copyright since he just linked. But I think he definitely wasn't in the right either, as he was actively making money off of piracy. To take a real world example, if I set up a business that tracked drug dealers and you could pay me 5 dollars to tell you exactly where the drug dealer was that had what you were looking for, I would definitely be prosecuted for aiding and abetting or conspiracy or something. I am not doing anything illegal, as I am not selling drugs, but I am certainly helping the people who are doing something illegal.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
He didn't break any UK laws. But he can get extradited. That makes no sense. Never mind the fact that he never actually provided any copyrighted information, just links to it.
This is so horribly flawed, it isn't funny. Welcome to a world in which extraterritorial laws can be applied whenever someone wishes -- or, more accurately, when the government in question can exert enough pressure on your own. Which basically is the US.
Can't wait for Americans to be extradited to Iran or somewhere else for violating their laws ... because it would be hypocritical to deny the request now.
After all, if you can ask for the extradition of someone who didn't break any laws in their country, you can't deny to extradite your own people who broke the laws of another country. But, we won't see that.
Someone jumped the shark here, not sure if it was the UK or the US to be honest. I think both have set a horrible precedent.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
This really is shameful to say the least. When I heard about this kid months ago I thought, no way, the extradition won't happen. His life has already been turned upsidedown but surely common sense will prevail - but when? I was very wrong obviously. If the intention is to make an example of this guy, exactly what message does it really send? To me, all this really says is that those misguided persons whose job is to enforce copyright have lost all sense of proportion and basic human decency. Bastards.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
I don't understand why ANY government would want to take down these sites - even if they are in the pocket of Big Media.
Websites which simply link to content point you to the people providing the content, making it much easier to find the people committing the actual crime.
Why not let these sites stay up, let people run them, and just mine them for data?
Once all the providers of infringing content have been sued / arrested / whatever, the linking sites have nothing to link to, and they die out too.
Is my reasoning incorrect, or is it just too high a level of thinking for the government to handle?
Love sees no species.
>>>nothing more than an indignant letter and a small fine.
And a nice mortgage bailout for those fatcats too. (Yes it's a bad thing. It did almost nothing for mortgage customers, and was a giant gift for Bank of America and other major lenders.) Ignore the article and watch all the embedded links/videos. http://www.infowars.com/mortgage-settlement-is-just-another-stealth-bank-bailout/
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
This man is obviously a tourist and he hates our freedoms! He will eat our children in their sleep lest we deport him to the freedom-loving peoples of North America where justice will be served! This tourist must suffer for his evil crimes against humanity! He is obviously an Al Yipee-kieeeeda tourist and should be hung by the neck until he is made dead! God bless North America and all who sail in her for taking this tourist off our hands and KILL HIM BY FIRE! He is the worst kind of tourist: a pedo tourist! Thank you Coalition Government for averting 9/12! You have my vote at the next general election!
Yep, leaders of the free world we are.
Yes, well... we're free in the same way china is a democracy: It's in the name, it's not what we do. In the "land of the free", everything needs to have an owner and a price. There is no public and there is no free; Even your rights can be sold. Just sign here on the dotted line and we'll give you 15% off on your car insurance.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Only poodle countries send a native citizen overseas to be charged of something that only harmed a few pockets in other country. This treaty is the most stupid and anti-sovereign act Ive ever seen. Yes, thats why we call the UK the USs poodle...
If someone needs to be punished, it must be punished by its own people, not other country that thinks its the Roman Empire...
This is really astonishing..
Leave those nice bankers and upstanding Wall Street financiers to ruin the economy with nothing more than an indignant letter and a small fine.
Time to get your optics checked? Most heavily regulated industries in the world and they're the cause of all that's wrong. Oookay then.
Om, nomnomnom...
On Tuesday his mother said: "Today, yet another British citizen is being sold down the river by the British Government.
Dear British government: Please grow a pair and tell the US to fuck off.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Fuck You.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
>>>Do you not understand the ineffable majesty of the free market?
Funny. But not true. Private profits and socialized losses (taxpayer bailouts of failing companies) is NOT in any way a free market. In fact it's a centralized economy with the private cartel known as the Federal Reserve Banks pulling the strings for the corporations it serves (not the american people). And Presidents Bush/Obama/Romney and the Secretary of Treasury were/are/will be happily cooperating with the transfer of wealth from our wallets to the Fed's gang of corporates.
NOT a free market. Not even close
.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
It's good the FBI, and Scotland Yard can do this. I hear the Taliban are bad bunch of dudes to go up against?
He will be charged with everything they can think of. Made up stuff, real stuff from jaywalking to treason.
He will be facing 300 years possible sentence if convicted of even half of it.
He will be facing a 5 years incarceration just waiting for a trial.
They will offer a plea deal: plead to being a bad boy and you can go home tomorrow, wear a radio on your ankle for a year and that's it.
He will do the deal.
The US will get a conviction, which they will trumpet from the rooftops. They will have a precedent that they covet, and anyone running any similar operation will pretty well have to stop it, lest they meet with a much worse fate.
The American's, no doubt, believe they are doing this fella a favour, since their first instinct was to scoop him up into a black helicopter, or even just nuke him remotely while he rides his bike to school.
If you're a God-loving, honest, and straight down to earth, hard-working, non-gay and non-commie/non-socialist man (a real man, not one of those metrosexual pervs) who likes to buy products very much, then you probably have nothing to fear. I guess.
Fuck Allah! Can I now be extradited to Saudi Arabia for violating Sharia Law?
Abolition of the reserve would make the problem worse, not better.
Learn to love Alaska
I think people reall miss the big picture when it comes to copyright, in particular. People bemoan the RIAA/MPAA/etc. and th government trampling individual rights, the extension of copyright terms, legal protection for DRM, etc. (I share these concerns). Bit I think the big picture looks like this:
-Early in its history, America's economy was based in resource extraction.
-Later, it became a manufacturing powerhouse. But it was eclipsed.
-While that has brought some pain, the US economy thrived by being the leader in innovation. However, the US is in th process of being eclipsed here, as well.
-Where is the US still the indisputed leader? In the creation/export of CULTURE (e.g., entertainment). And regardless of individual freedoms, I believe the US will do everything possible to protect that 'industry'. Including many of the things that peopl around here believe to be so obscene.
He will serve considerable time in a US jail.
We will forget about him.
He will appear on morning TV in the UK a few days after his release.
Nobody will care because by the time he's free such extraditions will be a common occurance throughout the democratic developed world.
We made our bed, no point pissing and moaning now because nothing is going to unmake it without spilling blood. And we're far too preoccupied with our pathetic little lives to do anything other than bitch.
That is a pretty good description of the policies the religious right have hitched their wagons to for some reason.
Pray tell do elaborate...
And all was sorta OK until the regulations were relaxed. NOT a coincidence.
Hmm... guess we have a first amendment issue at hand. The US government created a state religion.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Is that the chances of a fair trial after extradition are slim to none. Add to that the fact that conditions in a lot of American jails would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment in any West-European country... Distasteful affair again!
Seriously, where're the tabloids that are usually latching on "scandalous" stories before they even hit the ground? Where's Sun's outcry about the scandalous hijacking of one of their finest young by a terror regime abroad?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Both the US regime, and their UK puppet administration are now owned by corporate interests.
Clearly they have now overstepped the mark, and are not democratic governments. I hope the population will rise up, and overthrow these fascists.
Some years back, the home secretary decided that pinochet wouldn't be extradited because he was...too sick, yeah, too sick. So someone who makes a few links gets extradited for something that isn't a crime in the UK and a mass murderer doesn't even though he murdered thousands. I'm ashamed of the U.S. If I were a UK citizen, I'd be ashamed too.
Prior to the Fed there were 50 State banks. The spreading of the power made it very difficult for corporations to bribe and control. More importantly: These banks did not have the power to print money (and thereby destroy our savings). There's a reason why the dollar lost 97% of its value since the Fed's creation, but lost none prior to its existence. We were better-off before the Fed existed with its loose and irresponsible fiscal policies.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
... and the American government is still 100% retarded. More at 11.
Ah, you must be a follower of Supply Side Jesus!
Check your premises.
"It's not about the money, it's about sending a message". - The Joker.
Jonathanjk.com
This. Wishing I had mod points.
Check your premises.
Maybe, maybe not. The point still stands that government meddling in the economy is precisely the opposite of the definition of a free market.
A free market may, or may not, be better than the current system, but you can't call the current system a free market.
Free markets never have government bailouts, regardless of the reason.
A truly free market would not have the concept of copyright, patents, or trademarks.
People frequently blame our current situation on the free market, but that's not what we have right now. I'm not saying that the free market is the solution to our problems. But if we don't even understand what our current system is, or what the problems really are, how can we ever hope to improve upon it?
There was far worse corruption and corporate control in the late 1800s than today. JP Morgan personally did the job of the Fed (with his personal fortune) for a while before it was established - hard to get more corporate control than that. I'm not sure the establishment of the Fed helped any, but the raw data does the opposite of making your point.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The only "regulations that were relaxed" were the firewall between investment banking and real banking - which sucked but wasn't the biggest problem.
The biggest problem was that the various silly mortgage derivitave securities weren't standardized and traded openly. The CBOT went to the government and said "we need to create a formal market for this stuff, for the exact same reason we have markets for corn and index futures derivitaves and so on", but the government said no (no doubt with GS calling the shots).
Lumping all government interaction with business into "regulation" just confuses the issue. Only truely crazy libertarians would not accept the commodities markets as "free markets". Had mortgage securities and derivitives been forced into these free markets, the crisis would have been minimized - because the crisis was fundamentally a failure of a market to happen at all.
When government tries to set prices, or decide who a company has to sell to or buy from, things go to shit. When government helps to enforce contracts and standardize weights and measures, those may be "regulations" but they only help create a free market, and things go well.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
This is about making an example of him, so that when he returns to Britain, a shell of his former self, others will look at him and think twice about slipping on a Guy Fawkes mask and trying to live a free life. The only way to combat this is to take to the streets in your mask which can be acquired here: www.cia.gov/Free_Guy_Fawkes_Mask_Giveaway_form.html
Australia weathered the financial crisis with hardly a blip due to our strong regulatory regime. Free marketers are deluded if they think deregulation does any good other than to allow more corruption.
David Cameron talks about wanting the UK to produce its own internet giants. How can there ever be a "British Google" or the like under a system which ships off British innovators to the US when their business operates in the tricky legal grey area of international/internet boundaries? If YouTube didn't exist and were invented in Britain tomorrow, the creators would be extradited to the US post-hate, rather than allowed to develop their legitimate business. If Cameron actually wants the UK to punch above its weight on the internet, he needs to start fostering a culture of explicitly supporting British businesses and bedroom startups.
The problem is that the sale of the derivatives was permitted at all. Take two piles of radioactive dioxin. Divide each into 100 smaller piles. Combine each pile from mound A with a pile from mound B. Sell as the new superfood.
US really does want to police the world...
In this case, the interests of Corporate content creators w/ investments in the present body controlling the Executive branch, want to have the world policed for them for monetary gain, and to propagate fear. After all, it's cheaper to have the DOJ, whom you helped saturate with industry lawyers, to foot the bill rather than spend copious amounts of money lobbying DC insiders for more restrictive legislation.
Funny that I don't recall ever hearing a US citizen, on US soil, being extradited to a foreign country for something related to the Internet. A corollary example would be, if I bad-mouthed Thailand's figure-heads and was promptly extradited there for violations of their speech restrictions, though never having set foot on their Thai soil.
On behalf of most citizens of the US, this is a gross mis-allocation of resources and money. Do not think for a moment that your average American agrees with this.
Don't forget that he can appeal the decision. The Home Secretary can agree to whatever she wants, but the courts are not necessarily going to agree. It isn't like the courts and the government always agree on issues regarding rights and security (e.g. regarding a writ of habeas corpus in the UK: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/opinion/prisoners-are-not-pawns.html). Mind you, the courts don't have impunity - they are bound by the law, so who knows how that will fall out.
Oh, and the obligatory IANAL.
The solider who killed the 16 people in Afghanistan is said to be tried by US court because they know he'll be stoned to death. Since he did leave the military base he should be tired as a US citizen who committed a crime in Afghanistan.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
To be fair these President's supported abolishing the Fed
Andrew Jackson
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
William McKinley
John Kennedy
They all have something else in common as well.
When countries become slaves to MAFIAA, what makes the citizens of those countries?
Slaves of slaves?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
JP Morgan personally did the job of the Fed (with his personal fortune) for a while
Well, he was free to do whatever he wanted with his personal money. The difference is that he couldn't make gold out of thin air. Today's Federal Reserve can do it, and they do it by printing dollars and then buying gold on the market.
A Police state was not enough you still wont believe it exist neither did the Nazis.
Now we moved to a police world.
Bought by corporations.
It will be a thousand year rein of terror.
Unlike anything the world has ever seen.
Thousands of porn stars will be wholesale transported from California on Wednesday next week for a series of crimes relating to sharia law in several middle east countries.
Debate is wild and furious as to whom is actually going to have the honour of stoning these heinous criminals to death. The forerunner is Dubai, mostly as they are in desperate need for "maids", where these evil woman can work off their sin before being stoned to death.
Clerics from several countries have been captured quoting from the muslim holy book, the quran, in related to the offences these porn stars are culpable of.
However, in a shock twist the thousands of women currently incarcerated for the shocking crime of participating in the creation, distribution and broadcast of porn in the state of California may not be headed for the middle east after all. Several towns in the bible belt of America have entered a counter claim on the "harlots" in the name of various Christian churches.
While one side stockpiles stones and readies their slave stables and the other side brushes up on 18th century branding techniques for adulterers the world watches and waits to see who will get to punish these criminals.
Sorry but I don't see the tragedy here. There's been so much noise about all this video piracy that you need to be a total imbecile to not know that it may come back at you. So maybe the solution is to simply stop linking ?
If you are so freedom loving and independent, why are you all such junkies about the stupid jewish hollywood movies ?
If you hate hollywood so much, why are you so dependent on their crap ? I think the problem is in you - the creatively impotent lazy asses who need to be entertained like f@cking babies. So I totally agree with the prosecutors - all of you idiots who keep linking, downloading, uploading and whatever that hollywood junk should be steeply fined, jailed, extradited and so on, to the full extent permissible by the law.
So maybe as the result, we will see more independent creative people doing something themselves rather than waiting for the corporate entertainment machine to give it to them on a gold-plated tray.
The problem is, the Federal Reserve isn't a government organisation, it's a private bank that only caters to other banks. What the US needs to do, first and foremost, is take back control of its money again.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
The Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913. All but Kennedy were killed years before it was enacted.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Cunts.
Fucking inbred cunts.
Who am I talking about? Those cunts 'in charge' of the US and UK who think it's perfectly acceptable to ruin someone's life and set a wrong precident over something that so many people do it's ridiculous.
And in closing, fuck you MPAA/RIAA, you're among the worst shower of cunts who walk the planet.
What he was doing isn't even illegal in the UK. He has been charged with no crimes.
Korma: Good
I post this the same way that hackers point to weaknesses of systems to repair before they become a real threat. I don't suppose this "treaty" could be the window for the US government to request the extradition of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, on the grounds that he infringed the copyright of the material of the US government by posting it online. No longer needing to send back to Sweden or anywhere else. Any ideas if this IS a real threat guys?
-Neurosis should be taken out in sex instead of politics and IT.
Don't do business with America
To be fair these President's supported abolishing the Fed
Andrew Jackson
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
William McKinley
John Kennedy
They all have something else in common as well.
Only 4 were actually successfully assassinated. Jackson survived the attempt on his life.
This space unintentionally left blank.
Can't the extremely high statistical likelihood of being raped in US prisons be used as a defence against extradition?
Canada too.
Really, the only reason Canada really suffered at all was because it's geographic location ties it strongly to the US economy.
Feel free to choose which country's side you're on in the next war, because there is no wrong in betraying a country that practices extradition.
It is easy to see that the UK kid did not contribute financially to the Obama campaign/administration, and is therefore not one of 'The Protected'.
First we had Captured Regulators
Now we effectively have Captured Governments with US and UK being current examples.
Oh, BTW, "Captured Governments" is a more PC way of calling them a Plutocracy
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
UK does not fall within US juridiction
That, and because the Harper governement lowered sales taxes and bailed out the auto industry. Had it not been for those two things, we wouldn't be crying about the deficit right now.
But, hey, they're the "party of fiscal responsibility".
The reason this shit happens is that people themselves are sovereign at birth and they give it all up to the state to handle through citizenship. Investigate subrogation of rights.
Yes, and gold fringe around American flags in courtrooms is a key example of this conspiracy. *cough*
Face it, these sovereign individual/allodial title/income-taxes-only-apply-to-government-employees/the-US-government-is-a-corporation/admiralty law/etc conspiracy theories are all a crock. Here's how you can tell: even if this conspiracy theory were true, the common people want it this way.
Let's imagine that the conspiracy were true and were exposed. Suddenly everyone is declared a sovereign individual. Hooray, no income taxes, etc, etc. It would take about 3.7 seconds for a new Constitution/Constitutional amendment to be passed to reinstate present income tax levels once everyone saw that all government functions were shut down due to lack of funding.
So, if there's a conspiracy, it seems to be resulting in a state that causes contentment for the overwhelming preponderance of the populace. Even written laws cannot defy a culture's will for long.
Cf. a "real" conspiracy: the backdooring of federal intrusion into all aspects of life via abuse of the Constitution's Interstate Commerce Clause. This was derived from cultural shifts in the early 20th century. The populace is happy with the result, even though the level of cognitive dissonance in these judicial decisions is farcical.
Same deal here: let's imagine that the US Supreme Court were somehow instantly packed with hardcore libertarians. All these unconstitutional federal intrusions would be struck down. Social Security & Medicare would be instantly shut down. Food & drug contents would no longer be regulated. Vehicles would no longer be required to meet safety standards. How long do you think it would take for a Constitutional amendment to be passed to reauthorize all of this presently-unconstitutional federal intrusion?
The culture wants it this way, so even written law cannot defy that mandate.
Consider this as a de facto vs de jure argument against these types of conspiracies.
No, not true at all. The problem was that the risk was misunderstood. That's the direct result of thousands of differing "homebrewed" financial instruments, none of which got very much analyst attention. This is why most commodities trade only in standardized contracts, and all trades are themseles public (at least price and quantity) - the arbitrage profit to be made from understanding the standardized contract better than the other guy is so vast that they are understood perfectly. That level of analysis would have prevented the problems we saw.
On futures, derivitives, and speculators in general, they really help stabilize prices.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Absolutely true. The risks were ignored and often deliberately misrepresented. Or are you saying that these "financial geniuses" had extra holes in their heads and flushed billions down the toilet without even bothering to understand what they were buying?
They "help" stabilize prices HIGHER than they would ever be otherwise so they can act as leeches. Many of them should probably be taken out and shot but I'll settle for actually prosecuting them for rampant fraud.
Corporations run US government.
US government make laws to enable Corporate profits.
They Extradite anyone who breaks said laws.
They Pressure any country that doesn't support those laws.
They Throw all guilty into massive privatized prison system.
They Use Super Prisons as source of slave labor.
They Use slave labor to kill all unions and competition.
Arrest the poor, and unemployed, who cannot afford to be free.
The year is 2062, you are either part of the wealthy elite "Managers" who make up 1% of the population or one of the slave-peons serving a lifetime prison sentence for circumventing DRM. But out of the pens there will arise a hero, one that refuses to submit to his corporate masters or their thugs. His name is John Galt. Who is John Galt?
You don't seem to understand how commodities markets work. "Counterparty risk" is controlled by law, and quite agressively. Other risk is controlled by the fact that there's money to be made if someone else's analysis of risk is wrong - enough money to hire 100 math PhDs on the off chance that one of them finds somethnig (really).
And speculators do help stabilze prices. Why would they make prices higher? That's just silly. By definition a speculator neither produces nor consumes the commodity, and so has no vested interest in the particular direction the price moves. "Speculators" are just demonized by politicians unwilling to admit the fact that their policies are what's driving prices up. (On the whole, being a speculator is like betting in a casino: they all lose money on average to the "house" - actual producers and consumers - except where the common wisdom is very wrong).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I understand perfectly that if you choose to buy something and have no idea what it is, knowing very well that the market for that item is in no way regulated, you are STUPID. Alas, it turns out that if you are WELL CONNECTED, it doesn't matter if you are stupid and reckless, you'll get bailed out.
Commodities speculators neither produce nor consume, but they do make piles of money. Those piles should either stay with the consumer or go to the producer. If (as you claim) speculation is not profitable, why is there so much of it? More well connected stupid people?
Well "commodities speculator" is a broad term. Those that are truly speculators always lose money on average, because the prodcuers and consumers have an edge (much like casino gambling), but one can get get rich just by luck (much like casino gambling) - and they do help keep trade volumes up which really helps reduce the bid-ask gap.
Arbitrageurs (which people often confuse with speculators) OTOH, almost always make money, but they provide a valuable service.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
None of them provide a needed service, but they DO make money by the ton by acting as leeches. Ultimately, the people who need the commodity will buy it and the producer of the commodity will sell it. A simple broker could be of use helping buyers and sellers find each other, but people buying and selling things that they neither produce nor consume or even have a place to store. Do you REALLY think that if there's a bid-ask gap the producers and consumers will all just stand around scratching their heads wondering what they should do?
Arbitrageurs really do help - they close the gap when the price is different in different markets, or in different currencies, or so on - stuff it's better to not have to sort through when you just want to buy or sell. I've been bitten by differences in different markets before, and it's such a pain.
And, yes, if you doubt the pain of a large bid-ask gap, try buying a new car then selling it the next day. "Thin" markets suck.
I still haven't heard how you imagine speculators make money (on average), or hurt producers or consumers?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
As a consumer, why in the world would I care to buy a car today and sell it tomorrow? As a producer, why would I BUY a car?
Actual consumers (including large corporate ones) manage different offers in different markets ALL the time. They simply buy from the low bidder.
Speculators are great at creating artificial scarcity.
So, before you hold strong opinions on market participants, you should have even one clue about how markets work (let alone understanding why a producer might buy what they sell). Just sayin' - right now you have 0 clues. That's not an insult or anything - if you've never traded commoddities or the like, why would you know? But you shouldn't go around condemning people whose activites you don't understand.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I haven't traded commodities. I do understand systems and how they work (or don't). One thing I see in our economy is a lot of middlemen who fancy themselves key to it that don't actually produce anything. I know that a lot of this structure didn't exist in any form for the vast majority of human history (including the 20th century) and we got on with commerce just fine. I also know that whenever we have allowed the more baroque elements of the market and trading, disaster has soon followed.
I see a lot of assertions of value, mostly claiming X enables Y (primarily from people who do X). Alas, I don't see a lot of justification for Y.
That's great that minty-shine toothpaste makes my appendix 30% whiter, but do I actually need a white appendix?