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Hackers Can Easily Lift Credit Card Info From a Used Xbox
zacharye writes "Using nothing more than a few common tools, hackers can reportedly recover credit card numbers and other personal information from used Xbox 360 consoles even after they have been restored to factory settings. Researchers at Drexel University say they have successfully recovered sensitive personal data from a used Xbox console, and they claim Microsoft is doing a disservice to users by not taking precautions to secure their data. 'Microsoft does a great job of protecting their proprietary information,' researcher Ashley Podhradsky said."
Proprietary software vendors cannot be trusted to put your interests first. If they can get away with it they will always put their interests first. But, of course, their interests will remain well protected.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
I also thought the CC info was stored on Microsoft's servers. You can't even buy stuff on an Xbox without being logged into your Live account.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Yep it makes 0 logical sense to store any credit card information locally on an xbox, I can't imagine Microsoft would make such a silly mistake. It would be like Valve storing credit card info for steam on the PC it is installed on.
From http://aisel.aisnet.org/amcis2011_submissions/54:
Couldn't find a free to access PDF though.
The so-called "Factory Reset" on the 360 doesn't do anything. It blows away a few settings, but the majority of the Flash NAND that everything else is stored in remains untouched- that is, the data is still there- just not in any reference-able format (this is analogous to unlinking a file- the data is still there, just not listed in the filesystems TOC).
If you really want to nuke a 360, you need to go into the System Info page (the one with the console serial numbers, kernel version, etc)- then enter in a combination of button presses that is usually specific to your console or the machine model (nobody has really figured that one out). Usually this combination starts with LT, LR, X, Y, LB, RB- but then there's anywhere between 2 and 8 additional button events. You might be able to guess it with some patience, I've done it before- but I think that was just blind luck (in my case, the remaining buttons to press were on the D-Pad- up, down, left, right, then the X, Y, A, and B buttons).
If you call Microsoft, they can usually get you the combo for your console if you make up a story about losing the parental controls or some bullshit (they won't just give it to you if you ask for it- they want a reason).
Once you do that, you'll get a screen that will basically confirm you really, really want to blow the console away. If you confirm, the 360 will reset itself to the actual factory state- that is, all your HDMI settings, wireless settings, account information- everything will be nuked.
But the publicly available "factory reset"- the one you can get to without any secret combos or anything, isn't really a reset. A lot of settings will linger around, and the only way to nuke them totally is with the aforementioned wipe.
-AC
Pretty soon everyone will have had their credit card stolen so just don't worry about it!
Nothing gained, nothing lost!
The good ol' days when someone just stole your wallet/pocketbook from your grocery cart... how I miss them.
You want to know how to help your kids? LEAVE THEM THE F*&K ALONE. --George Carlin
Straight wiping of a 360 hard drive will destroy it for future 360 use. The hard drive security sector (hddss.bin) is stored on the disk and, if erased, will render the hard drive useless on a stock 360 console. The security sector cannot be "spoofed" or otherwise as each hddss.bin is unique to the specific hard drive on which it resides. Only by backing up the specific sectors where hddss.bin is stored before wiping, then restoring them afterward, will keep the hard drive usable in a 360 console.
There are hacking tools to convert non-360 hard drives into usable drives, but not Microsoft OEM drives. I can't believe the researchers recommended a straight wipe without this caveat.
Is your XBox in scope? :-)
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
now we are in a loop.
A red ring of death?
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
I buy the gift cards when doing anything regarding the xbox
The jury is still out on this, absent real evidence I'm going to wait until more is known.
Exactly, those researchers at Drexel U have shown themselves to be repeatedly untrustworthy, and have huge commercial reasons to lie.
And those people who are unsure whether their credit cad details have been stolen shouldn't complain either.
I mean, which part of "Microsoft product" did they not understand?
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
not yet!
This article might as well read "used pcs". Why wouldnt you dban your console if you were going to sell it?
Answer: because people dont know and dont care./
-
TFA: Performing a fast scan on one of the drives resulted in a possible credit card hit as demonstrated in Image 10. Although this does not definitively prove there are any credit card numbers on the hard drive, it is highly probable given the results obtained. The Bank Identification Number in this hit identifies this as a Bank of America Discover Card [37].
That's a solid find. Except for the fact that I can't find the option to enter in a Discover card to Xbox Live for it to store. Chances of this being a real valid Discover card number? I'd put it right around the same as /dev/urandom.
http://i.imgur.com/A0M4d.png
"It makes sense to store valuable information on xboxes, just like Microsoft Windows versions which retain a lot of information unless you use CCLeaner"
How, and why, does it make sense to store "valuable" information? And, who determines what "valuable" means, anyway? Personally, I store almost nothing on my machine. And, Microsoft doesn't store ANYTHING on my machine. I dumped Windows years ago, when I discovered how easy it is to retrieve data that most people don't even know is saved.
Crap, you can pretty much write a person's biography, if you can get his computer!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Before my fellow Dragons attack the parent post, please read it again after turning on your sarcasm detectors.
Woah! I was getting a bit creeped out by some of the more paranoid comments from our brethren and just at the right/wrong moment a junior spider abseils off my ceiling light across the room and onto my keyboard. The slightest movement of my hand makes it scurry in and under the ] (right angle bracket) key. It shall feast well tonight!
And my comment... don't use Xbox it's Microsoft shit. Easy.
Moore's law is not a law. Theory, yes; Predictable trend, certainly; Law, no.
Too bad credit card numbers never expire...
PS3 better uses HDD's that work on any sata system so they are easy to nuke.
Yes, we know. That was true in 2006 and it's true today.
I also thought the CC info was stored on Microsoft's servers.
TFA implies it's cached in system files.
Their advice is worth bearing in mind for desktop computers too, not just XBox 360s
"I think Microsoft has a longstanding pattern of this," Podhradsky said. "When you go and reformat your computer, like a Windows system, it tells you that all of your data will be erased. In actuality that's not accurate—the data is still available... so when Microsoft tells you that you're resetting something, it's not accurate."
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
I also thought the CC info was stored on Microsoft's servers. You can't even buy stuff on an Xbox without being logged into your Live account.
The point, I think, is that it's naive not to assume some engineer decided to store the info in *both* places. If you were trying to make the customer experience as smooth as possible, and you had 99% confidence that the home box was in possession of the Real User, you might want to make the process a little more "foolproof".
Say the billing server glitches and corrupts their copy of the CC... Poll the console, get the number, transaction approved. The alternative is pop up a CC entry screen, which has a non-zero chance to frustrate the Real User to the point of cancelling the sale. Bad for a market built on instant gratification.
Any goodheart engineer who cries foul from a system security training point of view, has probably never had to answer to a Director more concerned with their department operating at a loss for years. Xbox division regularly dipped into and out of the red until the last couple of years.
And the bigger point is, with all the revisions to the Dashboard, it may be impossible to know when this purported "feature" was added, taken away, or actively used. I bet you 2800 MS Points that the next dash update roots out and purges this data. Won't stop the class-actions though.
Credit card details were already leaked through Sony themselves. No need to physically get at the boxes.
-]Phreak Out[-
Just the fact that the cc info is recoverable from the drive is alarming, it should have been scrambled beyond recognition by some cypher.
"Exactly, those researchers at Drexel U have shown themselves to be repeatedly untrustworthy, and have huge commercial reasons to lie."
Not much differnt than sloshdot editors these days!
Any one of two dozen drive over-write utilities (free or paid) will make sure your drive is unreadable.
No need for multiple passes either, simply write binary zeros everywhere and you are done. The old FUD about the CIA recovering your info with electron microscopes is pure bull, and nobody has ever once successfully demonstrated that in public even when they had access to state of the art university electron microscopes.
Platter level forensics are a hoax.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Any one of two dozen drive over-write utilities (free or paid) will make sure your drive is unreadable.
Yep I'm on Linux, so "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx bs=1M" is good most of the time, or dban if I'm lazy.
This is more of a problem for people who think consoles (and computers) should be appliances.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Let's see them pry personal credit card information from my Sega Genesis!
"When you go and reformat your computer, like a Windows system, it tells you that all of your data will be erased.
It's true though... when you reformat your computer you logically have a blank slate. Everything IS erased, it's just that some of the old data might not be irrecoverably destroyed, especially if you choose a quick format where you just get a clean filesystem w/clean volume metadata without going through every disk sector and zeroing or even clearing out directory tables..
The message presented during format is a warning to be careful formatting, because you can lose data if you do it. They want to help make sure people don't accidentally format and become upset at Microsoft because they didn't know what they were doing.
The warning is not a promise that if you do this, your personal data is totally purged from the hard drive so that you can safely resell it.
I suppose there should be a warning about that too before you can proceed with formatting.
"Warning: This operation will erase the volume's directory index and remove ordinary means of access to all files, but formatting will not make sure that any sensitive information on this volume is safely destroyed: to reduce the duration of the format operation and avoid unnecessary mechanical wear on disk drives, format only makes changes to the disk required to provide a clean filesystem; to ensure destruction of sensitive data, please use a secure deletion tool."
A similar alert should be shown when moving an item to the recycle bin, emptying the recycle bin, deleting items in browser history, clearing the cache, deleting cookies, and exiting an application such as MS Word that utilizes temporary files but does not securely delete its temporary files, or an application that stores sensitive data in registry, or an application that had documents elements which were cached in RAM page cache, or an application that had document elements in RAM which were swapped to disk (pagefile).
Preferably the warning should be accompanied by an option in the application to accept a performance penalty and delete the objects securely.
Say the billing server glitches and corrupts their copy of the CC... Poll the console, get the number, transaction approved. The alternative is pop up a CC entry screen
That doesn't make any sense at all. Microsoft's database framework: Microsoft SQL, Jet DB, SQL Azure... doesn't "corrupt" a copy of things in a database Microsoft's database system is a Tier1 application. If corruption was ever a significant issue they would have much larger problems on their hands, because they wouldn't be able to sell their bulletproof reliable self-healing massively scalable database server infrastructure.
The far more likely scenario is they have "Accidentally cached" input of HTML forms containing a representation of the CC number, through a standard browser function, that didn't avoid caching SSL session data; or that they actually use HTTP and didn't think to use HTTPS when prompting the user with the form to enter their CC details.
That's what the EULA with the binding arbitration clause is for.
Don't use CCleaner, it WILL fuck up your system eventually.
... to April 1st to not say this could be an elaborate April Fools joke.
Yep. I won't believe ANY claims about what the CIA can do until the CIA demonstrates it publicly!
When's their next Open House, BTW?
This space available.
Eventually? How long is eventually? Because I've used it regularly for as long as it's existed, and after all these years no problems so far.
I guess I'm sitting on a time bomb!
This space available.
You've never dealt with accepting credit card info before have you?
Urandom is much slower than /dev/zero.
$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1024
1024+0 records in
1024+0 records out
1073741824 bytes (1.1 GB) copied, 0.207047 s, 5.2 GB/s
$ dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1024
1024+0 records in
1024+0 records out
1073741824 bytes (1.1 GB) copied, 95.5125 s, 11.2 MB/s
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
How EXACTLY is this flamebait? he provided the link to the response from MSFT who says their software doesn't store locally so we have one saying A and another saying B, so logically one would suggest that waiting until we had a separate source test and verify the findings would be the best course of action. Or does a post not count if it isn't following the correct groupthink? Last I checked the banner read "News For Nerds" not "self affirming circlejerking" ala Faux news and MSNBC. The only compliant i can see with his post is that frankly it shouldn't have needed to be made in the first place as timothy should have had the reply in TFS.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Stolen credit card numbers are cheap. Who's going to pay $50 for a used XBox just to steal somebody's credit card information?
You can put a piece of paper through a shredder but if the shredder ONLY has that piece of paper and i have the time i can put that paper back together, so does that mean you didn't actually shred it? what we really need is different words here, erased VS erased and possibly recontructable would probably be better descriptions.
What Windows does when you format is erase the Master File Table or MFT. Once the MFT is gone NTFS and the OS above it simply can't find any former files because without a pointer to tell them what and where a file is then it simply doesn't exist. Now of course we all know there are tools that can recover by doing a scan of the actual drive bit by bit (I prefer Recuva myself) but considering the fact that all one has to do is a standard overwrite by zeroes which can be done quite quickly and that even relatively simple encryption would make a file hell to repair on a formatted drive it really doesn't make much sense. I can't comment on the X360 but I do know Win 7 uses encryption for its caches like Readyboost so i don't see why it wouldn't do the same for any GFWL cache as the OS already has an API for encryption that should be pretty trivial to call. Even XP has NTFS file encryption so there really is no reason why they should have it unencrypted and if it turns out this is true someone needs a good firing.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Platter forensics a hoax?
Today, yes. Yesterday? No.
Drive technology has changed. I seem to recall that it was the old non-S.M.A.R.T able drives that were subject to (successful) platter forensics. Long time ago =! Hoax.
Defining Statistics and Social Research
You seem to remember wrong.
All that has ever been demonstrated is that with an electron microscope a couple of bytes were successfully "raised" after being over written with a uniform pattern. The prior content of the drive was known, which is how they were able to determine that they weren't recovering noise. It was a proof of concept recovery of literally a few bytes from a drive with known content overwritten with known content. This was the topic of a guy named Venugopal Veeravalli, for his Masters thesis, Carnegie-Mellon University, 1987. (He went on to have a brilliant career, but nothing came of his research.)
The process involved:
Magnetic force scanning tunneling microscopy (STM) technique which uses a probe tip typically made by plating pure nickel onto a prepatterned surface, peeling the resulting thin film from the substrate it was plated onto and plating it with a thin layer of gold to minimise corrosion, and mounting it in a probe where it is placed at some small bias potential (typically a few tenths of a nanoamp at a few volts DC) so that electrons from the surface under test can tunnel across the gap to the probe tip (or vice versa).
It yields pictures (images) of the surface, AT THE BIT LEVEL, which then have to be visually analysed by humans, and they guess which grains of magnetic media represent the old data (5% of the grains), and which represent the new data (about 95%). It takes 10 minutes to yield one visual image, it takes 8 images to guess at a byte. And this was done with KNOWN prior content, and KNOWN overwrite pattern on a disk platter that had been written EXACTLY TWICE in its life.
From this theoretical capability sprang the paranoia of multiple overwrite for mil grade erasure. An entire industry followed in lock step.
In real life no one has ever recovered a full file, or even meaningful fragments from an overwritten drive. Not at the older sparse densities, and not at today's much denser packing of bits.
With tape you could SOMETIMES do this, but only because heads never aligned precisely, and you could read the bottom layer of magnetic particles right thru the plastic substrate. But even that required extremely slow manual procedures with government budget equipment. The "lost" NASA tapes were recovered this way.
The CIA relies on exactly what every body else does, the fact that data is seldom erased, merely the file allocation table is over written and data lurks in forgotten clusters on the drive.
Go read the link I posted and the links it references.
It doesn't happen.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx bs=1M ..." instead. Apart from being faster, it will erase the entire disk, including any sectors which have been remapped, and will work on damaged disks (i.e. it won't abort or perform retries on write errors).
Use "hdparm --security-erase
>My money is on most readers here aren't stupid enough to unload any data storage device w/o appropriately clearing it, or using throwaway credentials
Except that there's no practical method for actually wiping the damn thing other than microsoft's secret konami code.
Wipe the disk using DBAN or something and now microsoft's stupid "security"(the only thing it secures is their profits on selling commodity hardware) flag results in it not being usable in the system
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
That's because your clients are incompetent. All of them.
No company I've ever worked for has had an SQL server "corrupt" a database. Ever. The only thing even remotely similar was a disk failure, caused by shitty HP hardware, and recovered in an hour without even going to backups thanks to hotswapping disks in the RAID array.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Not surprising, if the user had reversible encryption enabled or you have physical access and can overwrite the hashed password with an arbitrary value. Of course, if the user ticked the box "Encrypt contents to secure data", or enabled Bitlocker full disk encryption, your "boot-cd" would be completely useless.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Neither has that Director.
That's what the EULA with the binding arbitration clause is for.
That's what consumer protection laws that declare EULA clauses invalid are for.
Don't have one? Write your politician.
It's absolutely far-fetched. But so were black swans. ;) I certainly agree with your conclusion.
1) I'm not making any realistic claims about the technology or the engineer's actions. I'm devil's advocating that Director of X is so worried about losing a sale they insist on a ridiculous layer of redundancy. It's not likely, but it is most definitely plausible. (Unless you're defending the intelligence of Microsoft management? oh snap!) And even though this story is about Xbox, information gets exposed elsewhere all the time. If you're not willing to blame the technology, then it comes down to poor decisions and human error.
2) That minuscule case is a $10-$50 loss, plus negative word of mouth and mindshare damage. I don't have a tidy economics formula for it, but That's Bad. Talking about 5 year expiry dates doesn't enter into it, given that before the 360/PS3 no console with an online marketplace had a lifecycle lasting longer than 5 years. And the user knows that it's their job to update when they receive a new card.
3) Employees under stress decide not to bother doing a lot of things. Everyone was the new guy once. Everyone has a senior moment eventually. Let's pretend this issue has existed since 2006, and it has just been discovered in 2012. Sounds like many security patches I've applied.
A lot of /. comments are the search for logical justification of how shit happens. That's a very engineer thing to do. But businesses are no more logical than the fallible people who run them. How many stories do we read about the valiant IT crusader trying to sway their luddite management into awareness of The Right Way? :) Shit happens, because people.
The only thing people "know" about the CIA's abilities is whatever Hollywood dreams up for movies and TV gimmicks.
As an outsider, my caricatured perception of government intelligence is a bunch of failed lawyers tallying various stats and counting down the minutes to their next smoke break. Recovering data from an erased hard drive seems well beyond the reach of any federal employee I've ever met. Maybe the top engineers at Western Digital could pull it off, but they have better things to do like cramming more bits onto a fucking platter.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
That's just an attack on Microsoft. Formatting does not erase your data, it erases the metadata, (re)initializing the filesystem structures to a clean, possibly blank state. The raw data remains, but since you no longer have an index to tell you where each file begins, how big it is and what it's called, you have no easy way to access it.
With many filesystems, this metadata exists in several places and usually has one or more backup copies. A "quick" format tends to kill the main index, leaving the backups mostly intact. Recovery tools can scan the disk to find these backups and "unformat" the filesystem. On FAT systems, they don't have this luxury, instead they look for specific signatures to find old orphaned directory entries, but it's the same idea.
So... "formatting" doesn't really erase your data. Says so in the name: format. If you want to erase data, use an erasing tool, such as `dd if=/dev/zero` or DBAN or anything else that overwrites the entire disk.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
It was possible, whether it still is at current data densities I don't know.
What I do know is that it's astronomically expensive and the CIA can make you disappear a lot cheaper and easier if that's what they want so they don't bother much.