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Ask Slashdot: Recommendations For Linux Telecommuting Tools?
First time accepted submitter rodrix79 writes "Hi all. I am trying to move from Windows to Linux (Ubuntu, but maybe to Mint). The problem is I telecommute full time and I am having a hard time trying to find the right tools to keep communication flowing with my clients (which are mostly on Windows / Mac). Any good recommendations from Linux telecommuters?"
(1) Decide what you're trying to do
(2) Decide what application level software will do what you need
(3) Use whatever platform (2) runs on
I would not put my income at risk by playing silly games with the platform I use to earn my living. If I want to use something else for other purposes, then jolly good, I'll buy another box.
In all honesty... an IM program, an email program, and a web browser. Without saying what tools you're looking to replace, I really don't know where to go with this one.
Can you be more specific? Like telling us what doensn't work? All major chat protocols work, email works, browsers work, OpenVPN works (others may work too). There are good terminal services clients. So, apart from the "I can't have Microsoft Office", what -pray tell us- doens't work.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
And using Skype on Linux is a problem because.... ?
Skype runs on Ubuntu and not through wine. They actually have a .deb package for it and probably for other distributions as well. For other things though, yeah you might have to stick with windows or at least run a VM.
Skype works just fine on Linux. I use it daily, yes, even for voice and video.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
"Sorry, but for business things you really do have to use Skype."
Where? Everywhere I look I see businesses using Cisco, Tandberg and Polycom video conferencing and that means real H323 protocols and software. Of which there is NOTHING for linux.
The good thing is a old Tandberg Edge95 or Polycom SD unit is dirt cheap on ebay.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A private forum if applicable. (I'm trying to nudge my main client in that direction, they have multiple outlets who don't communicate with each other much)
If you're trying to remote into a company LAN or VNC things then your main block is company IT policy rather than Linux capabilities, but if you're looking at standard communication tools then browser choice is sometimes more important than OS choice.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
I generally hate it when people don't answer the "real" question posted to an online forum, so for starters: Jabber and rdesktop, and at every turn, promote the use of Google's online collaboration tools if they don't already use them heavily (they actually don't suck, but I wouldn't run a company depending on Google to say non-evil).
That said, you have asked the wrong question. You need to start with "I make my living serving people using X but don't want to use X, should I drink the Xool-ade or risk losing my shirt?"
And if you don't already know the answer to that question, we can't help you.
Codeweavers' Crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com) product is a beefed up Wine and they allow a 2 week trial. Very reasonably priced.
You can install Windows software and run it without having to have a VM or a Windows license. It works great for a lot of Windows apps they don't specifically list on their website but they also list apps they have tested and know specifically will run.
I use it for a number of Windows applications where I don't have to boot up to a now very old version of XP on an old hard drive. I just installed the apps in "bottles" under Linux and then just run them whenever I want to.
In my case, telecommuting requires some readily available tools, such as openvpn or git/svn. For my softphone needs, I use Ekiga. For instant messaging, there is Pidgin. For screen sharing, I had excellent experience with Teamviewer. For email, anything from Thunderbird to Mutt. But really, I never had any particular issues regarding communication on Linux. Linux may be lacking in other categories of software, but it really shines in communication department.
Tell yourself it's based on BSD and that's kinda close to linux. I've long ago given up on using linux as a desktop/laptop. Run a Mac, be happy and put a linux virtual machine on your mac for the hardcore geeky stuff. Best of both worlds, IMHO.
oh, and if you conference in multiple people it sounds like mickey mouse being hit in the balls, repeatedly.
Again, YMMV.
I run Ubuntu. I like Ubuntu.
But I won't install it again, because there are bugs introduced in the Ubuntu patches which are not an issue with the base Debian build.
So come the next box, I'll be trying different distros again.
I'm rather disappointed to report that every major distro has let me down on updates and patches over the years. I really have to question the value of a "maintenance service" if the maintenance introduces bugs instead of fixing them. (RedHat, Mandrake, SuSe, and now Ubuntu have all done this at one time or other.)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
--Doug
"Never pick a fight with someone who buys his ink by the barrel."
- Mark Twain
So SIP isn't supported on Linux? Really? I'm sure Ekiga works as well as loads of others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SIP_software#Free_and_open_source_license_2
Even if its not your primary means.... and believe me, I am a hardcore linux guy whose used linux on his desktop, even while working at VERY windows centric shops that didn't entirely approve. The key is to have windows available, either as a machine you can RDP or as a VM (preferable).
95% of things, you can find a fine Linux based alternative.... but every once in a while someone is gonna send you a non-xml visio or maybe you have to talk to an exchange server (I never had luck with the linux tools.... even when I got them to work).
As I type this, my work laptop is, in fact, setting up a windows VM for this purpose. At my previous job, we had both desktops and laptops, so i just did nearly everything on my laptop, which ran Ubuntu, and would just rdp control my desktop for reading email and filling out timesheets (which required IE)
Personally, I would love to ditch windows completely...but I need it for steam anyway (my only non-work use for windows), and while I don't mind spending half a day getting a new free software alternative running... few people have the patients to wait for me to do it on their time.... so, I have windows for those times, and just take everything I have to do in windows as something to add to my "upgrade to linux" punch list.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
And using Skype on Linux is a problem because.... ?
It's unsupported, well out of date, and very problematic.
I often try to chat with people via Skype; only to get one or two chats through and then have it stop sending/receiving chats. I'm still supposedly on-line; but it's not working.
And its functionally broken when trying to find the microphone under Linux; so voice calls are nearly impossible - they work sometimes, but most of the time they don't. I gave up on it.
Interestingly, this lack of support and updates started about the time Microsoft started its acquisition of the company, vowing to keep Linux support active - that support has basically been "here's a beta version that 2+ years old, use it if you like".
Is there anything else Skype is good for?
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
Unlike most distros you get a non-fucked-about-with kernel the way Linus released it and its very very stable. Granted , its not very user friendly but if you have even moderate linux skills this really won't be an issue.
Can you be more specific? Like telling us what doensn't work?
Having already posted a reply, I have a gut feeling this submission is in some way trollish. No specifics, vague notions of "telecommuting" (do people even use that word?), and management-buzzword phrases like "hard time trying to find the right tools to keep communication flowing with my clients". Really? IM, email, online doc sharing, VOIP, video chat, Libre Office (or even MS Office in Wine)... shit even old-school ftp drop boxes: none of those will work in keeping communication "flowing"?
I get the feeling the submitter is looking to say, "See? Even Slashdot -- largely regarded as Nerd Central -- can't think of ways Linux can provide the tools and services necessary to serve the business-ready needs of today's modern telecommuting professional". Or some such reverse-astroturfing thing.
It could also be that the submitter isn't a technical person. But the submission smells funny.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
wrong. Go to www.ciscojabbervideo.com.
Standards based, and free to use or if an enterprise wants to deploy it they can buy their own authentication infrastructure. The ability to call a traditional SIP or h.323 based VTC unit directly without some goofy transcoding high cost solution like blujeans.com is gold.
Who in this day in age (and I'm talking about someone on slashdot that asks a question about telecommuting)....cannot afford more than one computer?
Have one for linux..have one for windows.
Hell, what about running VMs? Have windows running on your linux box.....hell, get a mac, and run linux and windows on vms...and have the best of all 3x worlds.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
What loads of others are you thinking of? Just because it supports SIP does not mean it supports Video calls over SIP.
I've been down this road a lot, the company I work for is a Tandberg/Cisco VC dealer and we constantly are being asked about Linux clients. I have yet to find ONE that supports all of the functions. Like sending Pan/Tilt/Zoom to the far end camera. Ekiga works for simple static calls, at least an older version did. I have not tried it in the past year as surplus gear on ebay delivers a better conference experience.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'm trying to figure out what exactly the hassle is with VPNs on linux. If you're using openvpn, drop the configuration in /etc/openvpn and make sure the your certificate, your keyfile and you CA certificate are accessible for openvpn. (Me, I just dump them in /etc/openvpn/connectioname folders). Then adapt /etc/default/openvpn and set those you want to autostart.
Alternatively, under Ubuntu you can configure it graphically, but I haven't found a way to have more than one VPN active.
That said, you do need to install a few packages. Which ones shouldn't be hard to figure out.
I partially agree with "just use ssh", but do keep in mind there are much more bots that try to attack ssh ports with typical user/password combos than there are bots that attack VPNs. At least to my knowledge.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
ssh -X gives you all the gui you need on linux. You can even use cygwin as a client. Mac osx comes with a xserver client that automatically launches when that command is run.
Security is a valid concern. The VPN is another layer of security. Let's say there's a zero day vulnerability in ssh. That's OK, you have to be on the inside of the corporate network to ssh into the server, so there's a layer of security there. Let's say there's a zero day vulnerability in the VPN system. That's where the security of ssh comes in. Why expose an extra potential vulnerability vector to the outside world? The VPN external interface already HAS to be exposed and can get you what you need from there.
For my more sensitive systems I actually have to get through three layers of password to get into root. Login to the VPN to get on the network, provide the password for my ssh key to get into the box, then provide either my own password (through sudo, my password is different than my ssh key password) or roots password (through su) to get to root. All three passwords are different, so that if one gets compromised somehow, you still need the other two.
Sure shh is secure. That doesn't mean you should rely exclusively on that security if you can avoid it.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Slap you vpn admin until he sets up split-tunnelling properly if your vpn locks out your lan.
I use a cisco asa based vpn and with split tunnelling turned on at the host i can still use my lan while vpn is connected.
You just must have a different subnets for the local & remote.
Because it creashes occasionally, leaving it in a state where it looks like it's working but it is actually offline.
Well, that's what it does to me. YMMV.
My Skype crashes occationally under Windows too.
In love, war and slashdot discussions, everything is allowed.
Google Voice?
I have to take a Windows laptop home so I can use a VPN to start a putty session to log into a terminal to do unix system maintenance instead of just ssh'ing from my home linux box (yes , I know I can put VPN on linux but its hassle).
When I've asked why they can't just have an open ssh port they start waffling about security. I'm sorry , since when are VPNs more secure than ssh? Never, thats when. I'm sick and tired of know-nothing Windows admins running IT infrastructure.
Sounds like IT supports a VPN server for all of its corporate users. One of them (you) says that a VPN is too hard for him to set up, so you want IT to set up a dedicated machine just for you that runs SSH and provides access into the secure network. And they have to keep that machine patched and updated. And integrate it with their IDS. And configure it to authenticate against Active Directory. Can they use access lists on this SSH server to restrict what resources different groups of VPN users can access (i.e. a user from accounting might only be able to reach the web interface on their financial reporting server, while an IT user might have more access to the network)?
I'm sorry , since when are VPNs more secure than ssh?
Every port opened to the world adds risk, so the fewer services that are exposed to the outside world, the lower the risk. If there's a one in a million chance of a critcal vulnerability in the VPN and SSH server, if I publish both services, then suddenly I have a 2 in a million chance of a critcal vulnerability being exposed to the world -- it's always better to limit risk by reducing services exposed to the world.
I'm sick and tired of know-nothing Windows admins running IT infrastructure
IT Admins are sick and tired of know-it-all Linux users that don't understand everything that we are mandated to do behind the scenes to meet various regulatory requirements in providing a secure network.
... a Plantronics solution?
I've been telecommuting on and off for several years now. It's such a non-issue that I had to think aobut what I should write here.
Between OpenSwan, the Cisco AnyConnect VPN client, and my current employer offering Citrix-hosted services, there's nothing I cannot do from home. You don't need a phone system that ties into your employer's as long as you can forward calls from that system to your cellular, or home phone (if you still have one).
I haven't used M$ Office in over a decade, and I haven't missed it at all. Only twice in 12 years have I run into document formatting issues, but both were easily solved by exporting/importing via a different filter. I even get by with LibreOffice for my college assignments (in fact, a few of my professors prefer the Open Document format).
Tying into email should be a snap. You have your choice of clients for POP3 and IMAP connections, Evolution for Exchange integration, and a native Linux client for Lotus Notes.
I have run into a few issues with my current employer being super single-sign-on happy, not realizing that when this is done in IIS/AD that it negates the ability for Kerberos-based authentication for everybody else, but I've found that I can use my virtual desktop in Citrix on the rare occasion I need to access one of those sites.
Contrary to needing Windows in the enterprise or for telecommuting, I cannot think of a single good reason to use it.
Are you using Linux because you love Linux? Or because you hate Windows?
Because it sounds like you're very close to treating it as a religion. Admittedly I've been there myself - and I'd say that there's damn-all in terms of vaguely usable Linux desktop VPN clients and diabolical commercial support. It's fine if you're looking to get two servers with a very specific configuration working; terrible if you want to connect a single Linux desktop to a commercial VPN system.
Ironic, considering the number of firewall products that are Linux-based. But there you go.
Some of our contractors in Poland sound like Donald Duck.
I'm not sure if it's Skype's fault or not.
Nothing to see here; Move along.
When did you last use Skype in Linux? About a year ago I had the issue you mention but now it runs fine for me (Ubuntu 11.10 x64). I'm using the version that's in the repositories - perhaps the Ubuntu team tweaked it? I've never had the ball beaten mickey mouse issues you mention below though.
Video calls over SIP is hardly standardized. Every other manufacturer (especially Tandberg/Cisco) has proprietary codecs or don't follow the standards in them.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I have literally never had a problem. I don't use Skype much, but it has worked every time.