Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: My Company Wants Me To Astroturf, Should I?
An anonymous reader writes "Posting as AC for obvious reasons. The company I work for put an app in an app store. The marketing people think it isn't selling very well, so they sent out an email asking people to get on all their social media sites and friend or like the app to build up traffic. The thing is, most of the employees have not used the app, but we are being asked to say that we like it. We just saw stories about companies not being allowed to ask employees or interview candidates for access to social sites, but what does it mean when a company asks employees to astroturf? Will the marketing or HR people look at who has astroturfed, and who has not at raise time? How would you deal with this?"
Things are that bad at RIM and AppWorld, eh?
Look, if Thorsten wants you to astroturf, he should at least offer some examples.
Trolling is a art,
liars are liars.
there is only one answer ...
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude
Putting the obvious moral issues aside, how loyal to this company are you? If the answer is "not very" then I think you already know what you should be doing (i.e, looking for another place of employment). If, however, you are a loyal employee, then suck it up & just do what they ask...finding a place to work that you actually enjoy is tough, especially in this economy.
Whatever happened to advertising a product? Spend money to make money and all that jazz.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
As a fellow anonymous, representing the big E and the A, we get it in our inboxes daily to astroturf our products.
This seems to be a common practice nowadays, and I guess it shows you have some faith in your product. I have nothing against it as long as you like what you are doing. If you don't like astroturfing for your stuff, then don't.
What concerns me though is that you seem to be not very keen on this app. Care to elaborate why?
And therefore you can set whatever terms you want. They are in effect asking you to store company materials at your house. You cannot be required to provide the company storage. And if you do, you are able to be compensated. Your online property is no different.
If they want marketing, let them hire a marketing company.
Note that the site's terms of use may prohibit some or all actions as well.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I worked at a company where we were actively told to astroturf. It was a bad sign because the product sucked and instead doing something about the criticism, they buried their head in the sand. The criticism was completely well founded. My advice is to not worry about astroturfing and start looking for a new job. Your management isn't looking to fix problems, just cover over them.
Go with the flow until you get a new job. Be able to pay your bills, but plan your exit strategy now. Take lower pay to switch if you can get by for a while on a lower salary (mortgages etc.).
Get copies of the emails asking for the dirty deeds and hide them at home in case.
I've worked for slimeballs also before, so I feel for you.
Good luck.
Table-ized A.I.
A few startups ago, the marketing teams entire plan was "lean on your personal social networks". They'd have been better off standing outside handing out flyers.
If you like the app and think it's useful then it doesn't hurt to promote it a little. If it's just some crap, then don't bother - you'll just desensitize your friends and contacts.
Just saying "I'm working on app X, it's going pretty well!" is subtle and non-annoying, curious people will check it out.
Anyway, a company asking employees to lean heavily on friends/family for promotion is a sure-fire sign of a failed marketing vision in my book, a problem in the business side of the house.
Do they have a catalog of all the employees social media links? How would they know who did advertise and who didn't?
Try the app. See if it's really worth saying good things about. If so, I'd go ahead and praise it as deserved. If not, send a message to the sales/QA/service department as appropriate saying why you can't promote the app. Keep a copy of that message just in case you have to show that you were fired for raising an ethical concern.
Of course, encourage others to do the same, and mention your plan to superiors. They might just admire your behavior, and suggest it to more of the company. Few managers really want to be the guy to let a bad PR situation loose, so they might jump at the chance to prove they're more ethical than that nasty sales department - especially if the app is actually decent, and there's a good chance it'll get astroturfed anyway.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
You could always try the app yourself then give it an honest review. If you genuinely like it, it's not astroturfing.
If you don't like it, you could consider feeding that back to the developers as that may reveal more fundamentally why it's not selling well.
So are we just talking about clicking the "Like" button on Facebook? That doesn't sound terrifically evil. It's not unusual for people to "like" something they don't like, and so I wouldn't even really consider it dishonest. Like I "like" one of my friend's websites, but... you know, it's just because it's my friend's site. My work has asked me to make use my LinkedIn Profile shows that I work where I do, in case the company gets looked up.
Also, are they simply asking you to do it, or are they somehow monitoring everyone's accounts to make sure they do it, and then threatening some kind of response if you don't "like" their product? If they're just asking, and you don't want to do it, then don't do it.
This doesn't seem like a serious problem.
My advice is, don't lie. Try out the app and, if you like it, promote it, but don't lie about it.
If the company's employees aren't familiar with the Ap (which seems strange as it is something they are all getting at least some of their salary on) shouldn't this be indication one for the marketeers that it isn't very good? Maybe it's for an obscure market or target customer, but I would still think that people had opinions on it if it was useful in any way.
When I think back to the various companies at which I have worked, *everybody* had an opinion of the company's products and generally used them.
If the majority of employees have no experience with it, I would think the most positive action the company could take would be to fire the Ap's product manager because if the Ap can't generate any interest in the company, then clearly it's NFG.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Why do you work for a company who's products you don't use? Is the app too expensive, or just not something that is suited to your life? Frankly if neither you nor your colleagues use a product your company created, why does the company think anyone will use it? If the product is good, but you just don't have a use for it, I don't see any ethical issues in promoting it. But if it's simply not a good product then I would probably not promote it, after all it's your personal reputation that is at stake. I'd also start looking for another job.
Get used to it. Everybody does it and much of what you think of as news (especially tech news) is networked people astro turfing for each other.
If you think some of your friends will find it interesting, why not? Just serve your friends well. Use the app and be honest about what you like about it. If you can't stand it, just mention the app without saying you like it.
It is somewhat self serving and it may feel dirty but you are helping your company and yourself and informing your friends who may be interested and so everyone benefits. This is how the world works.
How about you actually TRY the app? If it's good, go ahead an give it a favorable review, but include full disclosure that you're an employee. That way there is no question of whether you're astroturfing or not.
--
www.nitemarecafe.com
It seems that companies think of social media in two ways only: 1) Can we use this to our advantage? 2) Can this be used against us? They don't seem to understand that YOUR social media account actually REPRESENTS YOU on the internet, as in your ONLINE IDENTITY. So what they are asking you to do is analogous to making you stand on the sidewalk in front of a supermarket with a bullhorn, in a yellow chicken-suit, and then making you shout "Fred Freddson's Eggs are the BEST EGGS in the market. Buy today! You'll LOOOOVE these eggs!" at anyone who passes by? Would you do this in real life if your employer asked you to? Its up to you to decide whether "Astroturfing" on social media is as bad as that. How much do you like your job? If you depend on it financially, then yes, by all means, do some Astroturfing. If the job sucks on the other hand, and you think you can find a better one, by all means, tell your employer "You know, I shouldn't be FORCED to use my social media accounts for the good of the company... There are better ways of marketing a product." Good luck with your job...
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
I recommend Group B. I've been using Group B for years, and they've never let me down. Anytime I had a problem, I just called the toll free number (and got a human!), and they took care of my problem within a couple of minutes.
Highly recommended. Group B FTW.
Can't say that I would do it.
The problem is the original poster, not the policy, at least so far. The original poster is an epic fail because:
The thing is, most of the employees have not used the app
You have to do that before you can decide what to do with:
we are being asked to say that we like it.
Note that you don't have to like the genre to say the product is best in class, or at least somewhat "like-able". Many years ago I was asked my opinion of an ethnic food product my former employer sold; I can't stand that kind of stuff, but I could honestly say my employers individual product was an excellent example of the genre. If I had to eat this junk in general, this is the one I'd eat. This is your out if the app is something like a female ovulation calendar app or kids educational app or whatever.
I deleted my facebook account years ago, but the social norm at the time was some dude you sat next to in 8th grade once is a "friend" and anything vaguely novel is "like", so its not as if they're asking you to get a tattoo on your forehead or become a booth babe. The standard for "like" an app is probably "it didn't make my phone catch fire, so thats good enough".
If its just too rancidly repulsive to appeal to you, or in your opinion, anyone, you need to run like hell and start emailing resumes because:
1) They're obviously grasping at straws if its so awful they have to pay people $75K/yr (or whatever) to grudgingly admit they like it.
2) After grasping at straws comes the layoffs, downsizing, bankruptcies, etc, next week. So get a jump to it.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
It sounds like you're probably misinterpreting what they said. Try the app and if you like it, post about it, and disclose your relationship as "working for the company, but not developing the product". No harm no foul. They have no way to track this.
What the coward said! If you actually use the app (if you work for these guys, why aren't you eating your own dog food?), you can make some sort of judgement about its quality. If it's a piece of garbage, you need to let the devs and managers know about it so they can make it better.
Since you work for these people, once you try the app you should (You'd hope) be able to say at least a couple of nice things about it ("It doesn't wipe my phone" or "Didn't exacerbate my diarrhea" etc, etc, etc). Then you're not astro-turfing are you?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
That would be if you were expected to fake a bunch of actual reviews. Of course you "like" it. It buys you food. Employees have always been expected to stand behind their company's work in at least a "well, it's ours" kind of way.
When marketing (or most anyone else) sends an email to the entire company, ignore it. Duh.
If it's good, I'd say so. If it sucks, well, then I'd have some thinking to do. Of course, if a company is relying on ME to do their PR, it's probably near bankruptcy anyway. :-P
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
If you must hype your product, at least be honest enough to let people know you're an employee.
This isn't just a good idea. It's the law!
The revised Guides specify that while decisions will be reached on a case-by-case basis, the post of a blogger who receives cash or in-kind payment to review a product is considered an endorsement. Thus, bloggers who make an endorsement must disclose the material connections they share with the seller of the product or service.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
Sorry to see you are running short of P's here are some spares...
Ppppppppp pppppp pppppp pppp p ppp ppppp ppp pppppp Pppp ppp pppp pppppppp ppppp pppppp pppp ppppp ppppp pppp ppppppppp ppppppppp
Chances are, if you are proud of the company you work for, and are happy to be there, nobody in that company needs to ask you to astroturf, or do any kind of promotion.
If you are here asking the question as to what you should do... then I think you already know that answer.
And that answer is to get a better job, with someone you enjoy working for. Or at least, someone who won't make you want to shower every time you come home at night to wash the slime off. Yes, it's a tough economy -- but it got that way by the immoral actions of the minority. They way out of it, is not by further immoral actions.
And at risk of Godwinning the thread, the "only obeying orders" is an excuse, never a defense. You are responsible for your own moral actions. Internally, for your own peace of mind -- and in the eyes of the law.
Give the app a try. Perhaps you'll actually like it and ease your dilemma.
One approach - just point out that spamming social media with ilikes from a single source will very likely backfire and
get the company *bad* publicity (...and hint that marketroids might lose *their* jobs) .
Might even scare them a bit (wipes crocodile tear from eye....)
Andy
(Yes it is *personal* accounts, but a big batch in one go is a dead giveaway)
That's just simple promotion - asking employees to mention to friends, family and other acquaintances the products or services the company offers.
Astroturfing would be if you were pretending to be someone who DIDN'T work at the company. So long as it's a social network where your affiliation with the company is clearly visible and/or all your friends/family already know you work there, there's no ethical problem.
You don't have to BS or anything like writing a glowing review of a product you haven't used/don't like, but simply liking or +1ing something is just a way to spread its visibility to more users.
How would you deal with this?
Morally? Try out the app. Write what you really think. If you don't like it, either don't say anything, or tell the company what you didn't like. Maybe they can use your input to improve the thing. Worse comes to worst, tell them that at least now they know you're truthful when you tell them something.
~Loyal
I aim to misbehave.
"He's not being asked to astroturf. He's being asked to like the product."
Astroturfing is astroturfing, no matter the form. Employees are being asked to falsely represent themselves as happily satisfied users of the product. That is astroturfing at its very essence. Whether you are doing it via blog posts or Facebook likes, you are still committing exactly the same ethical breach. There is no difference.
His point is that it is *not* astroturfing if your profile identifies you as an employee or otherwise being involved. Astroturfing involves hiding the involvement.
For example I have an iPhone / iPad app named Perpenso Calc. Its a calculator offering RPN, Scientific, Statistic, Business and Hex functionality. If I recommend it in a slashdot thread regarding calculator apps I am *not* astroturfing because my account name, "perpenso", indicates that I represent the publisher.
FWIW, I have not asked friends, family, colleagues, etc to rate or like my app. Asking an employee to post an announcement that their project/product has shipped may be OK, but asking for ratings and likes seems to go too far. Such ratings and likes should be real.
This strikes me as a very aggressive email and would only be appropriate if the work environment is already strained and management has shown that it can't be trusted to handle suggestions or discussion in a fair and open manner. Escalating the matter to HR and the general council before even opening a discussion is hostile.
Better to clarify first, go in friendly and assume ignorance rather than evil is behind the request. Maybe "reply all" something along the lines of "we might want to be careful since this could be seen as astroturfing [link to wikipedia article]. Honest recommendations of the app from those who use it are a good, but let's not go too far."
That's extortion, which is a felony.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
I think this is sort of like asking Slashdot whether or not you should jerk off in public to drum up business because your employer asks you.
And the answer is of-course it depends.
It depends on - in no particular order:
- Is it in line with your morals and ethics?
- Can it be construed to be part of your job description?
- Is it legal in the jurisdiction you are in?
- Does it pay well?
- Would you enjoy doing it?
- Do you need the money?
- What happens if you refuse?
- Do you have other offers?
Answer these questions to your self, and you probably know what to do.
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
There are two parts to this question:
A) Should I like the product?
Yes, unless you totally hate it. If you like it, then like it. If you haven't seen it, well it is YOUR companies product, so you like it right? I mean in some sense it is making you money, so why not like it? Obviously if you feel it is a piece of crap, then don't like it. Otherwise what is the problem?
B) Will there be repercussions if you don't like it? As in will some PR drone go through the list and see who liked it?
I guess that is a remote possibility, but if you are the paranoid, you might want to look for another job (to relieve your stress levels). Your company doesn't really care if you click the like button or not. They just want the like # to be larger.
If you feel THAT strongly about it, then don't like it. But from the sound of it, there are other issues going on at your company you need to resolve.
You are exaggerating. Astroturfing is a WAY more serious manifestation.
It looks to me that in this case they are just begging you to support the product you are working on. There is no way for them to verify you actually did, but maybe (big maybe) the company doing better will reflect on you as well, so it may be in your own interest to show a bit of support. People do this ALL the time, its both legally and morally correct, and its still just a choice for you, they are not forcing you to do this.
People are doing some really crazy fucked up shiat out there, this is nothing. Nothing. Do whatever you want, and create less drama.
There is never any justification for this activity. Ever.
I tell people: 95% of the time, I can appeal to someone's God-given instinct to want to do the right thing at all times. 5% of the time, this doesn't work. So I resort to putting wild-eyed fear into that person in terms of what's going to happen when (not if) they get caught.
Your employer might have heard of Reverb Communications?
I'm reading some phenomenally bad advice here that takes the form of "Why don't you just try the software and vote it up if you like it?" Fact is, the Federal Trade Commission won't see it that way. You're a paid advocate. End of story.
You can encourage friends to try it out, disclosing to them that your employer is involved.