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Europe Agrees To Send Airline Passenger Data To US
Qedward writes "The European Parliament has approved the controversial data transfer agreement, the bilateral PNR (passenger name register), with the US which requires European airlines to pass on passenger information, including name, contact details, payment data, itinerary, email and phone numbers to the Department of Homeland Security. Under the new agreement, PNR data will be 'depersonalized' after six months and would be moved into a 'dormant database' after five years. However the information would still be held for a further 15 years before being fully 'anonymized.'"
Why comply? What would the US do, deny entrance to all EU citizens?
Anyone care to explain this?
Yet another reason for me not to set foot on an aircraft bound for the United States.
Seriously, you had me sold at having to remove my shoes at check-in.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Is this just for flights coming into the US?
Or all flights in EU?
First Europe sends banking info, passenger info, what will come? And there, for a moment, I believed Europe stopped being America's bitch. I'm voting... No wait, I don't know what or who I'm voting, because all parties I somewhat agree with agree with this shit. Fuck.
Vore for your local Pirate Party. I've heard they're at 12% in the polls in Germany. Let's repeat that in all our European countries. EU is not a state in the US.
...absolutely nothing.
... the German "constitution" (actually we dont have one, its called Grundgesetz, but never the less) and some public laws in Germany, I'm curious how the German government is thinking to get away with letting this pass.
In other words: German people have a government guaranty that something like this does never happen with their data. Go one "democratic" level up, and that's gone - cant happen.
I'm curious how far this is in line with the (interpreting of) the EU constitution (which is finally in place for a few years, but that took some kind of precaution to make sure it's vague enough here and there...).
If the pirate party jumps on this, things will likely go crazy.
Pretty much the only option, if only because they didn't really make a statement about that crap yet and they're generally in favor of privacy.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The US are paranoid and they are dragging every other country to their level. Someone somewhere has to stand up to these brow beaters . Guess it's not the European wimps.
This should be good news for conference facilities (hotels, etc) outside the USA, and - conversely - bad news for USA-based operations. When faced with the choice of where to locate a conference or other mass gathering of like spirits, it will be much less attractive to choose a location within the USA, simply because there will be fewer attendants willing to subject themselves to these laws. Since these laws seem to apply to USA air space as well - meaning that any flight which enters USA airspace has to have its passenger details registered with the USA authorities, even if the flight never lands in the USA - I guess Canada and Mexico are not good alternatives.
I foresee a booming business for Iceland-based conference facilities :-)
--frank[at]unternet.org
Europe sends data about all financial transactions to the US. Does the US send data about all financial transactions to Europe?
Europe sends data about all airline passengers to the US. Does the US send data about all airline passengers to Europe?
Long ago I thought we were equal. Obviously, one of us is more equal than the other
... Now without paper or even needing to ask.
US Tourists are the kind that complain about nudity in old paintings, we can well do without them.
Yet another reason for me not to set foot on an aircraft bound for the United States.
Might make no difference... The way I'm reading the article, it says "requires European airlines to pass on passenger information", without going into detail about whether that's US-bound flights only, flights within the EU, flights from EU to outside EU (but not US), or even any flight, from/to anywhere, done by an EU-based airline company. It would be good if someone could clear this up.
Secondly I don't see why passenger data would need to be transferred to US control at all. It's really naive to assume that the US will handle such data as agreed. Good chance it will end up in multiple databases, and possibly used at will (since under US control), in violation of agreement. What safeguards has the EU to the contrary? Any?
Of course the US wants some persons not to board an airplane, why not arrange for the US to provide that watchlist to an EU-controlled organization that checks this watchlist against passenger data? Flag & possibly take action on matches, data for people that don't set off any flags then wouldn't need to be transferred to the US (that is, other than what's done already in US-bound flights).
All this reads to me as: EU doesn't care about its citizens' privacy & lets itself be bullied by the US. Annoying - the EU is not even 1 sovereign nation, it's a whole group of sovereign nations. Combined a bigger population than the US. Our politicians should really show some more backbone.
Most people coming to the USA on holiday to see Mickey Mouse won't care. They really won't spend too long thinking about it, and it won't bother them too much. They trust the US government. They've already bought into the American Dream, they are coming for their holidays because they believe the USA is a wonderful place. The thing that will really bother these people will be if they feel unduly harrassed entering the country by customs etc.
The second large group coming to the USA will be business people, and they will be pragmatic: they will put up with the hassle and the sharing of information if it wins their company business.
I think only a small minority of people will object: those that can are sufficiently bothered and are able to take their business elsewhere (can find a US equivalent to work with) or will want to holiday elsewhere because they are unhappy with this information sharing. I don't think this is a large group of people. I suppose the important question is whether their loss to the USA is important to the well being of the USA.
This is a renegotiation of the July 2007 agreement that the EU send passenger flight data to the US. Under the new agreement, the US 'should' share 'information about terrorism and serious transnational crime that results from the analysis of PNR data by non-EU countries' with Europol.
To be fair, I'd have a hard time finding most of the US states on a US map either. California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Nevada, Florida, Texas, ok, they're easy, either due to shape or location, but I guess I'd have a hard time pinpointing, say, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming or Nevada. That rectangular states in the middle west just all look the same to me.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Except their memory is that of a kidnap victim with Stockholm's Syndrome--they pine for tyranny.
> The German PP for instance seems to be torn by scandal and internal conflict.
And you say they have no political acumen? That's pretty much what the "regular" parties do.
I remember when we all derided GWB for not knowing who was in charge of Pakistan. It would be hypocritical for me to let a similar level of ignorance slide from a political ally. If you aren't up to to discussing the news of the day within your party then you're not fit to serve on a city council, let alone serving in the parliament of a civilized country.
You're free to disagree but I hold the people who I vote for to a higher standard.
It's a shame that the majority of Pirate Parties are run by people with no political acumen. Unless they grow up quickly, they will never be more than a single issue party.
That is by design. They focus on a few select issues where they are strong and no other party cares about, instead of saying something (not so wise) about everything. Read the original description of the Swedish Pirate party for more info on why this is a good idea.
Not just those going to/from USA...
Also, the safeguard offered to depersonalize the data isn't worth the paper it's signed on... it's electronic info... and as we all know here, it's very easy to make copies of it. The Three Letter Agencies will be having wet dreams over this data and will insist on handling it themselves, thus being able to preserve the personal data in their own databases.
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17764365
The agreement applies to airlines operating flights between any of the 27 EU countries and the US.
It covers not only European airlines but also any carriers that are "incorporated or storing data" in the EU and operating flights to or from the US.
http://rt.com/news/eu-us-data-deal-491/
The agreement applies to airlines that operate flights between EU countries and the US.
The list of airlines covered by the new legislation extends beyond European carriers to include any carriers that are "incorporated or storing data" in the EU and operating flights to or from the US.
17434/11 - Agreement between the United States of America and the European Union on the use and transfer of Passenger Name Records to the United States Department of Homeland Security
Article 2 Item 1 Defines PNR as being data gathered for any flight, anywhere
Article 2 Items 2 and 3 Specify that carriers who must comply are those who operate flights to the USA even if they are incorporated and store their data - in Europe
The data in the Annex - mentioned in Article 2 Item 1 and Article 3 is as follows:
I have seen nothing in the agreement that limits the data gathering to flights to / from the USA
If anyone finds wording to contradict me please reply.
you should not make blanket statements like this. that's just fear mongering.
to summarize: as far as i can tell this pnr agreement covers flights to/from the us and flights through us airspace
Sorry but your references actually support what the OP said: the agreement covers all flights, not just flights from/to/over the US. The articles say that the agreement applies to airlines operating flights between any of the 27 EU countries and the US. Taken literally, this means it applies to all flights (including internal EU flights) operated by airlines that have flights from/to the US. I see nothing in the articles you mention that suggests a different meaning.