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Why eBook DRM Has To Go

Sci-Fi author Charlie Stross was recently put in the position of offering his thoughts to book publisher Macmillan on why eBook DRM is a terrible thing — not just for consumers, but for publishers, too. He makes a strong case that the removal of DRM, while not an immediate financial boon, will strongly benefit publishers in years to come through increased goodwill from users, greater leverage against Amazon's near-monopoly on distribution, and better platform interoperability. "Within 5 years we will be seeing a radically different electronic landscape. Unlocking the readers' book collections will force Amazon and B&N and their future competitors to support migration (if they want to compete for each others' customers). So hopefully it will promote the transition from the near-monopoly we had before the agency model, via the oligopoly we have today, to a truly competitive retail market that also supports midlist sales." Users have been railing against DRM for years, but it appears the publishers are finally starting to listen.

299 comments

  1. "increased goodwill from users"? by pedantic+bore · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You can't be serious.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can't be serious.

      No really he's right. If we can get rid of the DRM, there will be some really nice people who will loan out their book collection to a million or so of their close friends.

    2. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You could also phrase it as "decreased bad will from users", because when I see DRM applied to something it can't possibly protect (e.g. ANYTHING) I get mad and I want the perpetrator to go out of business and I don't want to give them money.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Roman+Grazhdan · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've bought a dozen of ebooks from O'Reilly and didn't upload any of them anywhere. They don't treat me as a potential thief and don't fuck up my reading experience and the prices are reasonable (especially when you compare them to apress or pragmatic). They are my friends. I want them to prosper and publish more DRM free books.

    4. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't be serious.

      No really he's right. If we can get rid of the DRM, there will be some really nice people who will loan out their book collection to a million or so of their close friends.

      People are fundamentally honest. If this were not the case then tell me why Itunes sells drm free mp3 ?
      Its just as easy to record a music stream from some internet radio or download from your favorite warez sites. Yes you will find bad apples here and there but in the grand scheme of things people pay for things they want to OWN.
      I am very glad that the publishing industry is going in the near term drm free. As an avid reader I've refrained from even buying an e-reader since I don't want deal with vendor lock-in. Yes yes I know its easy to strip DRM but thats not the issue. DRM free books means everyone can sell these, not only Amazon. Diversity in the supply chain is good for everyone. Good for the publishers that are not beholden to one buyer, and good for consumers that can choose the store/s from which to buy ebooks. Ebooks are important, the ipad and other tablets are just a means to an end. For a reader, for me what is important is the ebook. Knowing that in 10, 20 years time I will be able to go back a read these books without any problem even if platforms change, and e-stores go out of business. Just like a real physical book.
      Now if we only could get the MPAA to understand this basic reality. Oh well we can't win everytime I suppose. 2 out of 3 is still good though.

    5. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It takes just one person to upload

    6. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can't be serious.

      No really he's right. If we can get rid of the DRM, there will be some really nice people who will loan out their book collection to a million or so of their close friends.

      And when has DRM made sharing impossible? It is just annoying.

    7. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And then people have to download the book. If it has DRM, they'll just bypass it easily. Either way, your book will get downloaded by people who don't mind downloading it.

    8. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, and it only takes one person to crack the DRM, too.

    9. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by wrook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To paraphrase Karl Lagerfeld, "People who buy knockoffs of my product are not my customers". In the same way, people who do not pay for ebooks are not customers of the publishers. I can understand the frustration people have when they see someone take their product without paying for it. But if they concentrate on the people who *will* pay for it, (i.e. their actual customers) they will be better off.

    10. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s13g3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Correct. I would never pay EA or the like a single dime more for a game than I have to, and I usually give them what they ask for only grudgingly. OTOH, I have "overpaid" anywhere from 50% - 100% for every one of the 5 Humble Bundles I have purchased, not only willingly, but happily. A little goodwill earned by treating the customer not just well, but better than you have to, will go a long way in not only earning repeat business, but in the customer overlooking when you occasionally get things wrong, or being willing to patronize your business even when they may not need to.

      --
      "Inveniemus Viam Aut Faciemus" 'We will find a way... Or we will make one!' --Hannibal of Carthage
    11. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by LandoCalrizzian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just got on the e-reader bandwagon last Christmas and I can say that I have only purchased one book because I don't want to be locked in to B&N (yes I know it's hackable) if they can't withstand the Amazon/Tablet onslaught. I have 2 bookshelves full of books and choose to checkout library e-books instead of purchasing them. I'd gladly pay for an e-book if a) it is cheaper than the hard copy AND b) I could read it on any device at anytime without an internet connection long after [insert controlling entity] is gone. DRM is and always will be a short term gain because in the long run it will cost you more to maintain it.

    12. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a reason why the command to copy files is not: knockoff file copy_of_file

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, that's a reality that these guys are going to have to face. No amount of DRM or lawsuits or even infomercials has stopped it from happening yet, and likely never will.

      DRM only punishes legitimate customers, anyway. It makes the pirated version of a work, be it an eBook, video game, whatever, a better product than the legitimate one. A pirated eBook works on any device that can read the file format. No stupid account tied to a particular store tied to a particular piece of hardware tied to a credit card number required.

      I mean, you know it's bad when people are starting to buy legit products and still download pirate copies so they don't have to deal with the bullshit. I actually know people that do that, particularly with PC games.

      The war on piracy is just as effective as the war on drugs or the war on terrorism. Something like 70% of people here in the states think that there is nothing wrong with sharing media between family and friends, according to a poll I read during the SOPA debacle. The general public is not on their side in this fight.

    14. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The solution is not releasing any more books, it's so clear now!

    15. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but with stenography, it's possible to encode the name and address of the party that the file originated from.

    16. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 1

      I actually know people that do that, particularly with PC games.

      I seriously wish people would stop supporting companies that utilize DRM.

    17. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Roman+Grazhdan · · Score: 2

      I know very well where to download them (and some of them, like 'Practical Postgres' are available for free anyway), but I still buy them, because I love O'Reilly Media. I also keep telling everyone how awesome they are and that one shouldn't be afraid of the prices: they are twice lower than they show.

      It takes one person to upload, but everyone decides if he should buy a book himself.

    18. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh that's right, its a pro-piracy story

      Being anti-DRM and being pro-piracy are not equivalent things.

    19. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...really nice people who will loan out their book collection to a million or so...

      They even have a website: http://www.ala.org/

    20. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, just like Lily Allen, who said she was giving up music for good because of all those filthy pirates.

      Oh...I guess until her acting career didn't pan out, then it's back into the studio! Guess those pirates weren't such a drag after all.

      And, just because I love it so fucking much, Dan Bull's response to her 'quitting music'.

    21. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by tibit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do the some with any EDA and development tools. They are all legitiate, but the first thing I do is get a crack for them so that I don't have to deal with the silliness. Who the heck wants to travel with a fistful of dongles in those times of checkpoint groping and think-of-the-children mentality.

      PS. Now, moderate that, ha.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    22. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      People aren't inately honest they're inately lazy.

      iTunes sells drm free music sucessfully because:
      1. It's a low margin item to drive sales of their hardware (they really don't care if you pirate music, as long as you play it on an iPod and manage your library with a Mac)
      2. They have the name recognition to get people to look there first
      3. They provide an easy to use ecosystem (device, content, store).

      Amazon has the easy to use ecosystem, but they're trying to use their hardware as a loss leader for their content. Which means that their DRM has to be hard enough to break that people would rather pay for the ebook than go through the trouble of breaking it. Otherwise people will by the cheap ereader and get books elsewhere and that means Amazon will stop selling kindles.

    23. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by tibit · · Score: 2

      If only that was possible. There are no parametric 3D CAD systems without DRM. There are no professional-grade EDA tools without DRM. For many devices, the only development environment has DRM and there are no third party alternatives.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    24. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by value · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Watermarks can be destroyed by averaging multiple watermarked copies into a single copy.

    25. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet if you are Wiley & Sons they would love more people to sue for goodwill settlement bribes.

    26. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by beanpoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      EXACTLY! With four kids, I buy (or receive as gifts) a lot of kids DVD's. Disney, Dreamworks, etc. When we put a movie on in the car, I can't be juggling menus to skip past previews galore, and ultimately hit enter on a menu to get the movie to start. I regularly would use tools like DVDShrink to rip the movie to another disk so that it would play automatically when put in the player. Eventually, I got tired of the cat and mouse chase with copy protection, and began to download the torrents of the movies instead. Not to mention, ripping a movie would take close to an hour on my old computer, but I could download the torrent in 20 minutes! These were movies that I had on legitimate DVD's in my hand, but the pirates were still providing a product that was more convenient.

    27. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by cjjjer · · Score: 1

      Not all books just ebooks. Solved!

    28. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by xigxag · · Score: 1

      Fortunately for Mr. Pirate, he had a list of names, addresses and credit card numbers at his disposal.

      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    29. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by lxs · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah but who can read shorthand nowadays? Or did you mean steganography?

    30. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by digitig · · Score: 1

      Yes, but with stenography, it's possible to encode the name and address of the party that the file originated from.

      I suspect you meant "steganography".

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    31. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Gilmoure · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Does this mean it’s easier for someone to violate my copyright? It does. But most people don’t want to violate my copyright. Most people just want to own their damn books. Now they will. I support that. And I believe that most readers who like my work will support me. They get that if I don’t get paid, they won’t get books — and more than that I really do believe most people who can support the artists whose work they like will support them. So personally I don’t think ditching DRM will mean people will stop buying what I and Tor have to sell.

      --John Scalzi,
      Tor/Forge To Go DRM Free by July

      When Tor first got their site going a few years ago, they put all these eBooks for free. I downloaded a bunch of them, got introduced to some cool authors and got back into buying books, both e and hardcopy.

      Same goes for movies and films. Sure, I can easily find any film or song out there but I purchase my stuff from Amazon and iTunes. All my friends (40-60 year olds) are the same way. Maybe I'm too old to be cool and scrape the web?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    32. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Pitman or.. that weird English stuff?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    33. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by hawguy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I found that it's trivial to crack the encryption on Barnes and Nobel Nook books, and I've done so on many of the books I've purchased there. Now I let the books float freely between my Nook and Kindle. There were a few Nook books that I was having trouble decrypting, and it turns out that they were already sold with no DRM - I haven't run across any Amazon books without DRM restrictions.

      Conversely, I haven't had success at cracking my Kindle books, so I've stopped buying from Amazon. I try to buy non-DRM books (Google Books is a good source for mainstream books, many of their titles have no DRM, Smashwords is another great source for non-DRM books), but when I can't find a non-DRM title, I buy from B&N since I know I can strip the DRM even though I have no interest in sharing books with anyone, I just want to share them among my own devices.

    34. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The scenario I am often now faced with is with friends and family with kids who have spent hundreds of dollars on DVDs.. and bought some DVDs several times.. for the usual reasons.. mostly when the kids turn the DVD into a coaster but also when the DVD wears out.

      In these cases.. what have you purchased?

      In many cases these parents now refuse to buy the DVD.. they skip directly to the downloads and then burn disks as needed. These are not technical people. They are, however, quite annoyed at buying a DVD several times.

      An obvious solution is to deliver content electronically.. but we are still a way off that. Still no solution to play electronic purchased material in the car... I wonder if someone will bring out a device equivalent of the current car DVD player screen devices which instead of playing from a DVD instead plays from a hard drive.. download from the net to the drive, put the device in the car and away you go..

      I don't buy books online. I've been burnt with DRM already. I have had several situations where the ebook option would be great.. but the industry right now is not exactly in a state where I trust them.

      Probably a good thing as I have hundreds of books I'd like electronically.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    35. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by digitig · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, that's a reality that these guys are going to have to face. No amount of DRM or lawsuits or even infomercials has stopped it from happening yet, and likely never will.

      What do you mean? It worked wonderfully for the 1980s "Home Taping is Killing Music" campaign.

      [opt sarcasm off]

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    36. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People pirate books that were never legally released as ebooks too. Book pirating was around long before legal ebooks.

    37. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Yeah, when they started doing that with movies, it ended movie piracy!

    38. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you Sir, that is great news.
      Finally I will swap my paper versions of Vernon Vinge, David Weber and Charles Stross to ebook versions.
      As the rule I do not buy DRMed ebooks. This is my 3rd ebook reader and I was able to move all my books.
      My ebooks have circulation between friends no greater than my paper library.
      If they like it they usually start buying next volumes. If they do not like it well there is no next volume.

    39. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see every pirate as a future customer or friend of a future customer.

    40. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I"m fine with try-before-you-buy, and customer-determined-value. It's good to have a measure from the Dinosaurs to define the stupidly-upper limit of an album/movie/book, but if partake of something & it entertains me, I'll make the effort to acquire commercially. If payment was available on the creator's website, we'd save ourselves all kinds of hassle.

      People (consumers), generally, are getting this. They are beginning to draw parallels with, say, going to an amateur acting troupe's play & paying at the door on the way out, with enjoying a piece of entertainment & patronizing it - you don't physically move any more, but the act of supporting the artist(s) based on how good you thought the piece was, is gaining traction. So, in that sense, Stross is correct - a DRM-free piece is fundamental to its propagation.

      I think where he's wrong, is his notion that the likes of Amazon, B&N, etc will stay relevant. The digitized world simply doesn't need the middleman. We may see sites which aggregate & review, link to authors' websites; such sites would become the gateway for readers to learn about new works, and for authors to gain access to a new, larger audience - it might even be that Amazon et al morph into the trusted sites for the circumstance. But, the idea that a middleman (peddling digital products) is going to persist, as social awareness of consumer-determined-value (aka Information Age open market economics) grows, is a tad short-sighted.

    41. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Actually, we do have the ability to play electronic "purchased" material in the car. I can watch netflix, crunchyroll, and Amazon Instant Video on my phone, tablet or on a tethered laptop. If I were partial to watching movies in the car, it would certainly be possible to connect a car-mounted monitor to the laptop or mount the tablet.

    42. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Methuseus · · Score: 2

      There are a number of portable DVD players that will play off USB flash drives. Also you can put video files on a disc. You just need to make sure you use the right file type.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    43. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by bitingduck · · Score: 2

      I've bought books e-books from both O'Reilly and Pragmatic as well and really like the way they do it-- the PDF has some custom printing on each page that identifies the purchaser and notes the copyright: "this e-book was printed for blah blah blah. copyight some year etc..."

      I recently became an e-publisher (see my homepage) and will likely set up a similar DRM-free way for people to buy ebooks if that's their preferred format. The goal is to make it possible for the reader to read what they want, when they want, using the reader they want.

    44. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 1

      but also when the DVD wears out.

      What are you referring to here? The only way I know of that a pressed DVD 'wears out' is the accumulation of scratches over time that may make it unplayable at some point. If that is what you are referring to then how is this different from any other product that you buy which wears out over time and needs replacing?

    45. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Shagg · · Score: 1

      Those really nice people are already doing that, DRM isn't stopping them. The only people that are effected by DRM are the legitimate customers.

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    46. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we can get rid of the DRM, there will be some really nice people who will loan out their book collection to a million or so of their close friends.

      Right, because those people currently have NO IDEA how to remove the existing DRM and ebook piracy is at record low levels currently...

    47. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I stopped buying PC games when DRM started to become irritating. Steam was the final thing for me - a bloated buggy piece of crap that insisted on downloading 1.4GB on my 1Mb/s connection just so that I could play a game I already owned. Apparently it's fixed some of the major bugs now, but when it was introduced it was shockingly bad.

      Over the last year, I've spend more on gog.com that I did on games in the preceding 10 years. I have bought some games and not even played them - they're just sitting waiting for me to have some time to waste. I know that they'll still be working by the time I get around to playing them...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    48. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Jahta · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is a reason why the command to copy files is not: knockoff file copy_of_file

      $ alias knockoff="cp"

      There, fixed that for you!

    49. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Githaron · · Score: 1

      It would increase goodwill with me. I refuse to buy DRMed books.

    50. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Githaron · · Score: 1

      It takes just one person to upload

      I buy ebooks from O'Reilly all the time DRM free. I know I can probably find a torrent for them but I don't. Because they don't treat me like crap like most of the other ebook publishers, I respect them.

    51. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Githaron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People aren't inately honest they're inately lazy.

      If the reason people don't pirate is because they are innately lazy, then to decrease piracy, you have to make it easier to purchase than pirate. This can be done by adding additional services on top of the book that just make things easier. DRM usually does the opposite.

    52. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by hodet · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have no problem decrypting Amazon books with http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/hello-world/ Use Calibre to then convert to whatever format you want. I have a Kobo and always buy my books. But Kobostore sometimes does not have the books I want so I buy them from Amazon and then strip and convert.

    53. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kindle DRM is trifling to crack with the right Calibre plugin. It literally takes three seconds in duckduckgo to find the plugin download.

    54. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Good luck with that when the network flakes out or completely disappears as you've left a population center.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    55. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ITNS selling DRM-free MP3s is solely because Amazon began selling DRM MP3s. APL, wanting to be "the best", followed suit.

      You don't see videos, audiobooks, and ebooks being DRM free on that service. (I just had an APL fan complain not 3 months ago, trying to covert an audiobook to a CD for use in a car stereo)

    56. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Your phone only works in population centers? The only time I have an issue is in some remote mountain areas.

    57. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by cdrguru · · Score: 1, Troll

      I believe we have explored quite throughly the populations of "will pay", "will pay if you make me" and "won't pay". It turns out about 5% of the world belongs to "will pay" when they do not have to vs. around 90% belonging to "will pay if you make me".

      iTunes dropping DRM was pretty meaningless - they account for 1-2% of music downloads and it exists to support the iPod platform. The rest of the people are just downloading for free. Sure, you might find a Napster (new version) customer now and then, but by and large nobody is buying music any longer. Amazon dropping DRM would have a much, much bigger effect as they are arguably a huge portion of the ebook marketplace - I would guess at least 30% and maybe a lot more.

      So what happens if you take 30% of the ebooks in the world and remove DRM restrictions on redistribution? Well, I am sure you would get a heck of a lot of redistribution. Today it is possible to strip the DRM from a Kindle book from Amazon - it is just complicated enough that nobody is doing it on a large scale. So the redistribution of Amazon ebooks is pretty low. Open it up and I suspect you would easily see that the 5% that will pay will continue but the 95% that suddenly do not have to are going to be exercising their abilities to not pay.

    58. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      Amazon already does not enforce DRM. Publishers decide to put on DRM or not - there are many books in the Kindle store without DRM. With the ability to "lend" Kindle books to others, the library lending, etc. the "redistribution" of Kindle books is actually pretty high.

      Music stopped selling because most music got shitty. Sales were already going down before music piracy became mainstream. I think there is a large percentage that "will pay to support things they consider good, but won't pay for shitty stuff unless you make them."

    59. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      iTunes is such an incredibly small part of the music download landscape that it doesn't matter. Also, iTunes did make a big deal about how you were giving away your credit card if you redistribute music which is no small deterrent.

      No, people aren't fundamentally honest. Ever go into a store (you know the old 20th Century mode of shopping) where they have a guy checking people as they leave? Why is that? It is because they love their customers so much they just hate to see them leave? No, it is because it is known to retailers that 10% of their customers are walking out with stuff they didn't pay for. If it was a lot lower percentage the guy at the door would have nothing to do all day.

      DRM free books means everyone can sell these, not only Amazon. Diversity in the supply chain is good for everyone. Good for the publishers that are not beholden to one buyer, and good for consumers that can choose the store/s from which to buy ebooks.

      Do you understand that the publishers have a contract with Amazon which limits where they sell their books and DRM has nothing do with it? I have hundreds of books on my Kindle that didn't come from Amazon and have no DRM. The Mobipocket format (which is what Kindle uses) is sufficiently open to allow anyone to create books in this format. DRM is not locking publishers in - Amazon is quite capable of doing that and will continue to do that DRM or no DRM.

      There is no vendor lock-in on ebooks. Doesn't exist. Anyone that says there is does not understand and probably doesn't own any of the current devices. There might have been some kind of lock-in with the early Sony devices, but not with Kindle (ever) or the current Nook.

    60. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kindle books are nearly as easy to crack as bn drm: http://i-u2665-cabbages.blogspot.com/2009/12/circumventing-kindle-for-pc-drm.html

    61. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iTunes is such an incredibly small part of the music download landscape that it doesn't matter.

      Why are you lying to yourself? iTunes Store is still one of the largest sellers of legal music, in order to make it "incredibly small" you will probably need to not only add illegal downloads to the mix, but also the RIAA's inflated numbers at that.

    62. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1
    63. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd gladly pay for an e-book if a) it is cheaper than the hard copy AND b) I could read it on any device at anytime without an internet connection long after [insert controlling entity] is gone.

      Then head over to Baen and start buying. Their ebooks are cheaper than paper, with absolutely no DRM, and they offer every major format plus HTML and RTF.

      I have spent hundreds of dollars at Baen on ebooks, partly because I am voting against DRM with my dollars. When Tor ebooks are available DRM-free I'll start buying Tor as well.

      http://www.baenebooks.com/

    64. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Cough, Cough*: http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/

    65. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by NoobixCube · · Score: 1

      Personally, rather than buy ebooks (been there, done that, not happy with the results), I buy all tree-books, and then jump on #bookz on Undernet, and grab an e-book copy of it. In many cases, the pirated ebook IS a better product, and not just because of DRM. I was looking at buying an ebook on programming, the official release was clearly scanned pages, the file size was enormous, and there were words lost in the shadow on every margin. Tankfully this was plainly visible in the preview. Rather than waste my money, I had a look on #bookz, and THE SAME BOOK was a nicely formatted epub, with the images in tact, text flowing correctly. The publisher should pay THESE GUYS to do their ebook editions, instead of telling the janitor to scan a stack of books.

      --
      Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
    66. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      The Kindle DRM removal tools I looked at required running on Windows (or OSX, or depending on what version Kindle, a key might be able to be extracted from the Kindle). First, I don't normally run Windows and I'm not willing to reboot into Windows just to remove DRM so I can use the files I purchased, and second, even if I wanted to run Windows, most of the tools include binaries ( executables and/or DLL's), and I'm unwilling to run a binary cracking tool that I downloaded from some random site on the internet on my computer.

      Instead, I downloaded 2 python scripts, one to generate a key, one to decrypt the book. Simple and easy.

      http://vivaebooks.blogspot.com/2010/07/ibooks-b-lets-all-get-ignoble.html

      Why should I reward Amazon for making harder to crack DRM by buying books from them?

    67. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      No, you didn't fix anything. I specifically changed what I originally typed from "there is a reason why you cannot type ..." to "the command to copy ..." since the name of the command continues to be cp even if you alias it, which you can verify with the ps command.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    68. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I can't understand why this clueless guy got placement on slashdot... Oh that's right, its a pro-piracy story,

      An author, whose books are published by a publisher that just announced they are going to start shipping non DRM titles is a pro pirate and clueless?
      How much closer to the story do you have to get to have a clue? And if it is your OWN product, how are you a pirate?
      Maybe you need to look in the mirror to find the clueless one.

    69. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      To get that kind of functionality, you could always get a netbook and a power inverter. It has a similar size of display to most of the portable DVD players, and functions on hard drive storage. Another option would be a tablet with a large SD card. In that case, you could even pay for a data plan and have streaming media onto the device.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    70. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by stepho-wrs · · Score: 1

      $ cd /bin
      $ mv cp knockoff
      $ alias cp="knockoff"

      To be complete, should do it to the source files too.

    71. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by PuZZleDucK · · Score: 1

      I actually know people that do that, particularly with PC games.

      I seriously wish people would stop supporting companies that utilize DRM.

      Me too, the correct process is: Buy DRM game in store. Go home and start download. Return DRM game in box to store. Complain about it loudly while you are there (you will feel stupid). Then return home to the version you can actually use.

      --
      Can a person program a new solution to a problem? Why should anyone be able to stop such a thing? -Richard Stallman
    72. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for a company that produces hardlock-protected software. Recently i had to travel with a bag full of old parallel hardlocks that had been returned by customers. I got some extra attention at the airport, but wasn't strip searched or interrogated. .

      Mercifully, I was travelling in Europe, not America.

    73. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      +1 if I couldn't remove the DRM from Amazon ebooks easily I wouldn't buy them. FWIW here are the steps (all based on software from that apprenticealf.wordpress.com blog):
      http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/

      ***Amazon Kindle***
      - Download and install the Kindle for PC application and ensure all ebooks you want to remove DRM from are downloaded in Kindle for PC

      - Download & install Activestate Python Community Edition

      - Download the 'combined tools package' from apprenticealf's blog (http://tinyurl.com/6asq47f)

      - Double-click KindleBooks/Kindlebooks.pyw from the 'combined tools package', it should pop-up a GUI dialog with window title 'Kindle/Mobi/... eBook Encryption Removal'

      - Click the ... to give it the path to the eBook input file. It'll be a .azw file in My Documents\My Kindle Content. Then select the directory where the unencrypted output file should go

      - For the 'Alternative Kindle.info file' line do a Windows Search for *.kinf, this will find your kindle.info (in later versions .kinf) file. Eg. on Windows 7 it might be in c:\Users\myuser\AppData\Local\Amazon\Kindle\storage. On Windows XP it's C:\Documents and Settings\myuser\Local Settings\Application Data\Amazon\Kindle\storage

      - Click Start!

      Note: 'Directory for Unencrypted Output File(s)' should be something simple like c:\ or C:\Documents and Settings\myuser\Desktop. Kindlebooks.pyw has a problem with either the path length or particular characters in the path.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    74. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      I refer to the degradation of the physical medium resulting from normal use, physical component breakdown and abnormal damage.

      It is different as the people involved can not understand why, in this technological age, they need to buy the same content repeatedly.

      Due to the DRM on disks, yes, some disks are a right pain to take a backup of. Most parents I know would prefer to buy a DVD once, and use a copy until it breaks. There is a lot of difference between paying $15 to $40 for a new DVD vs a few cents for a copy. After a while, they get annoyed with the this situation and become what the content industry likes to call 'casual pirates'. Suing them won't help.. sue these people and they just won't buy anything anymore.

      How is it different? I buy a TV and expect it to last for years. I buy a computer and expect the same. Some parents have gone through a DVD disc in less than six months.

      What do you think is reasonable in this situation? For example, is it reasonable to expect a parent to buy the same Dora DVD 6 times over three years?

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    75. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Thank you for making my point for me. The command certainly could have been called knockoff, but as we both agree, it isn't.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    76. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, that's a reality that these guys are going to have to face. No amount of DRM or lawsuits or even infomercials has stopped it from happening

      From the link: You can buy your own copy, with a manual.

      What's a manual?

    77. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by snadrus · · Score: 1

      An $80 cheap Android tablet with a big SD card is exactly what you describe. The content is trickier, because you need a PC with handbrake for your DVD ripping, or use at-home wifi to run a torrent program on Android if you want. Not only is the device cheaper than the DVD player it replaces, but the touch screen can put up with kids better.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    78. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by damiangerous · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it doesn't meet your needs, but it certainly exists.

    79. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by tibit · · Score: 1

      Thanks. You're right, of course. Give it 10 more years and it'll be probably useful. It seems it's where wine project was 10 years ago.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    80. Re:"increased goodwill from users"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      mostly when the kids turn the DVD into a coaster but also when the DVD wears out.

      I've never seen a pressed DVD wear out. Laserdisc, yes. CD, in fact, yes. DVD, no. I've seen them be destroyed, however.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by smpoole7 · · Score: 4, Informative

    But it's interesting to see what some of the authors have to say about it. Here's a comment from Jim Butcher (Dresden Files, Codex Alera):

    I literally receive notices every single day about available free downloads of books I put months if not years of work into, and that's from a simple Google alerts search. Over a three month period, I tracked over 22,000 total pirate downloads of my work, using the stats available from the various file-sharing sites which include a counter stating the number of times the files had been downloaded. Actual sales of e-copies during that same period? Just over 2,500. That's sales information taken from the sales reports I get from the publisher.

    http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26233.msg1117676.html#msg1117676

    He also has some interesting comments about the publishers and how they're being dragged into eBooks kicking and screaming. :)

    --
    Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    1. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this case, the real questions would be:

      1) Would DRM stop people from doing this? Highly unlikely.
      2) Is stopping the pirate bogeyman worth punishing everyone, including paying customers, over?

    2. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      e-books will not seriously take off until they are suitably cheap. Once they're like iOS "games", selling for $1-2, people will start to buy them when selling portals are integrated into the various ereaders.

      That won't happen for a very long time, book publishers are terrified of losing control of the entire distribution and "scarcity" control.

    3. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by allcar · · Score: 2

      I am more likely to download an illegal copy, as it will be DRM free. Why should I pay to get the product in a less convenient form. They are not even allowing themselves to play on a level field with the pirates, as they have an inferior product.

    4. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two things:

      1. If DRM is removed, and real competition hits the ebook market, then the price will go down and people will be more willing to buy copies. The major forces driving people to pirate work are price and a stick-it-to-the-man attitude because of DRM. Make the work cheaper, and easy to buy and use, and at least half of the 22,000 pirate downloads will become actual sales. I guarantee it. Ask the music industry.

      2. Maybe people aren't paying for his work because it... sucks? (I don't know, haven't read his work)

    5. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Korvin20111803 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In contrary, Paulo Coelho says in his blog: "... the physical sales of my books are growing since my readers post them in P2P sites. Welcome to download my books for free and, if you enjoy them, buy a hard copy..." http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2012/01/28/promo-bay/

    6. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Charles Stross also has an explanation of why reducing ebook costs to that level is impractical... it's a part of his series of essays regarding common misconceptions about the publishing industry. Very much worth a read.

      --
      ... wait, what?
    7. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charlie Stross experimented with this too. One of his blog entries discusses of the pirate community is a "gift-based" community, meaning, the better the gift the the community, the higher your reputation. DRM-free books have no gift value, so he actually found that his free or DRM-free books were less likely to be on pirate sites, compared to DRM "protected" books.

    8. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Mike+Mentalist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As an indie author I can sympathise with his annoyance at people pirating his work. However he is making the classic mistake of assuming that if those people couldn't get his work for free, they would have gone to Amazon and paid for it.

      As my sig suggests I decided to upload all my own books to ISOHunt, Demonoid, Pirate Bay and Retroshare. I even posted about it in their forums, on 4Chan and include links to the torrents on my blog.

      The torrent page and the forum posts all contained an image of the front cover of my latest book. I got some nice feedback and potentially reached a large audience that normally wouldn't even know who I was.

      --
      I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
    9. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      2) Is stopping the pirate bogeyman worth punishing everyone, including paying customers, over?

      Correction:
      Is stopping the pirate bogeyman worth punishing only the paying customers?

      That's the problem with DRM. It doesn't punish those who download illegal torrents, it punishes those who obtain legal copies. I think everyone would see that jailing those wh did not commit murder in order to prevent them from murdering is not a good strategy to fight murder. However with DRM, somehow people don't see that.

      Make it less painful to obtain and use legal copies than to obtain and use illegal copies, and you'll see most people use legal copies (well, unless you seriously overprice them).

      I've got a DVD player and bought DVDs, but I'll probably never buy a BluRay player or BluRay disks. Why? Because with a DVD player, I can be sure that the DVD will play, and will not stop playing at some time in the future because someone revoked some key because some third party I don't even know about made an unauthorized copy (or maybe for some other reason, after all, how could I check that it really is due to piracy, and not because some government decided to censor that disk and eliminate all uncensored versions that way, or the company got greedy and just wants everyone to buy that disk again?).

    10. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by characterZer0 · · Score: 1

      I buy books and music online (sometimes in electronic formats, sometimes physical media.) Then I get it from TBP instead of downloading it where I bought it or ripping CDs. It is faster and easier for me, I do not have to deal with Digital Restrictions Management, and the vendor saves money on bandwidth. Everybody wins, except that the pirate download count is artificially high.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    11. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      Some of those downloaded copies will be mine. Of course, I've also bought physical copies of all his books in as they've come out, and most of the audiobooks over Audible, so he's still getting plenty of dollars from my pocket. I wonder how many else have done likewise, and how many have given him money after initial exposure via piratical means. The first I found of Dresden files was downloading a pirate audio version of Storm Front. I've spent at least $300 on them since.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    12. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 2

      e-books will not seriously take off until they are suitably cheap. Once they're like iOS "games", selling for $1-2, people will start to buy them when selling portals are integrated into the various ereaders.

      That won't happen for a very long time, book publishers are terrified of losing control of the entire distribution and "scarcity" control.

      Until about a year ago I would have agreed with you but I think you underestimate the convenience of the technology. Recently, however, I decided to move house and found that moving my sizable library of over a hundred books and a stack of journals is a tiresome undertaking. Additionally over the last year or so some of my books and the majority the journals have been made available in electronic format (Mostly PDF) by the academic societies who publish them which means I can reduce the size of my library by about 50% which translates into many, many kilograms of paper and store much of my library on an iPad or a Galaxy Tab. That does not mean I'm going to trash my bound paper books but having some of them and most of the journals on a tablet is a huge advantage. As many of my future acquisitions as possible will also be in electronic format. The only downside is paying twice for stuff I already own in print but at GBP 3-5 per volue for back issues It won't bleed me dry. Plus most of the societies that publish this stuff are non profits, they did incur costs digitizing back issues going back to the 1960s, and the money isn't exactly likely to flow into the pockets of somebody like Rupert Murdoch (if ever there was a motive to pirate print media it's to keep your money out of that bastards pockets).

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    13. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So Butcher is saying that there are 22,000+ people who would either have never read his book, or would have checked it out at the library instead of buying it, who are now - if it was any good - likely to mention it to someone else who may well then go out and but it ? The poor bastard!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      But it's interesting to see what some of the authors have to say about it. Here's a comment from Jim Butcher (Dresden Files, Codex Alera):

      I literally receive notices every single day about available free downloads of books I put months if not years of work into, and that's from a simple Google alerts search. Over a three month period, I tracked over 22,000 total pirate downloads of my work, using the stats available from the various file-sharing sites which include a counter stating the number of times the files had been downloaded. Actual sales of e-copies during that same period? Just over 2,500. That's sales information taken from the sales reports I get from the publisher.

      http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26233.msg1117676.html#msg1117676

      There's not enough information there. Butcher's latest work is selling in ebook form for somewhere around $15 or so - essentially the same as the hardbound book.

      There are very few books that I have to have so desperately that I'll buy them hardbound. True, part of that is that I don't have so much storage space that I want to spare the room for bigger books than paperbacks, but partly because even my favorite authors are in the final analysis luxuries. So how about breaking down these figures by title and see if rampant piracy is all-encompassing or if it's mostly on the overpriced stuff.

      Recently yet another study confirmed that people actually do want to pay for other people's work and given the option of free/pay generally will send money. But they also want to feel that they're getting a good value for their money.

      There will always be deadbeats and shoplifters. The important thing is not to obsess about them, but to concentrate on the value customers and make them feel like buying more. The ultimately secure store is one so miserable that no one wants to walk into it.

    15. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      Actually, instead of following the link that crafty.munchkin has given you, I'll cite you a relevant section from his eBook section on common misconceptions about publishing:

      1. A manuscript is not the same thing as a book. Just as a random sampling of 100,000 words is not a novel, so too does a finished book differ from a manuscript (the text an author writes, which forms the core of the book). In particular, about 80-90% of the cover price of a book has nothing to do with the paper and ink object you buy in a shop; indeed, using current production standards, ebook production requires nearly as much work as paper book production. (Paper and ink are dirt cheap; proofreaders and marketing teams aren't.)

      I don't know why people believe that the hard work isn't in the WRITING of the book. If any hack could write Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings, it would have been done dozens of times. Instead, we get these remarkable stand-out series; they have value because of the STORY not because of the PAPER. If you printed LotR on a dot matrix printer, it would still be a remarkable story. Print The DaVinci Code on platinum tablets in 24k gold ink and it's still an unreadable lump of dross.

      $1-$2 books is a sure way to make sure you read nothing but tripe for the rest of your life.

    16. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      well i think a lot of folks just don't "get" the whole Wizard/Private Eye thing so they don't get to the point of Harry

      1 having annoyed 3 of the Fae Royalty (winter/summer/Wylde)
      2 made enemies of a sect of actual DEMON possesed folks
      3 made friends of The Fist Of God (and one of the major angels)
      4 actually tried to bill GOD HIMSELF
      5 frightened a Maffia Don
      6 Stopped Armageddon
      7 Nuked a whole "race" of Vampires

      and a other things

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    17. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However with DRM, somehow people don't see that.

      Make it less painful to obtain and use legal copies than to obtain and use illegal copies, and you'll see most people use legal copies (well, unless you seriously overprice them).

      I hear this argument a lot. But what exactly is so "painful" about say Amazon.com's DRM?

      They provide unlimited downloads from their servers to any device on your account, and a reader application for every major platform. The only limitation is that you need an account to manage the downloads, and you can't read the books on a platform that can't run their app (so not a PC, Mac, iDevice, Android Device, or processing a decent web browser.) I really can't see what's so "painful" about that. Unless you want to put a copy of a book you bought on a device that isn't yours. At which point you're a pirate and the inconvenience is working as intended.

    18. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by kqc7011 · · Score: 2

      Is he trusting the sales figures from the publisher?

      --
      Passionately Indifferent
    19. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 1

      I really can't see what's so "painful" about that.

      You said it yourself: "The only limitation is that you need an account to manage the downloads, and you can't read the books on a platform that can't run their app (so not a PC, Mac, iDevice, Android Device, or processing a decent web browser.)"

      Different people have different priorities than you, you know. Therefore, these things (and possibly more) could be painful to them.

      Unless you want to put a copy of a book you bought on a device that isn't yours. At which point you're a pirate and the inconvenience is working as intended.

      Wow, that's a good one. If the person was a pirate, they'd already have the ebook downloaded and cracked.

    20. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Kazin · · Score: 1

      Sure, but how many of those 22,000 downloads would have been actual purchases had the people not been able to download? And I mean purchases of *new* books, not used. I suspect less than 1/4.

      I buy books, often (train commute), and probably 75% of those are used books. What's the difference, *to the author*, between me buying a used book vs. downloading an ebook? Absolutely nothing. The author is not losing money at all - they'd never have earned it in the first place. I like Jim Butcher, I've read (and purchased) quite a few of his books, but this is the same kind of bogus math that the RIAA uses.

    21. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      e-books will not seriously take off until they are suitably cheap. Once they're like iOS "games", selling for $1-2, people will start to buy them when selling portals are integrated into the various ereaders.

      That won't happen for a very long time, book publishers are terrified of losing control of the entire distribution and "scarcity" control.

      Some of them are. Smashwords is a publisher that presents up-and-coming ebook authors in inexpensive publications. Many of them are in the $2-$3 range. While proofreading is sometimes an issue and some of the stuff is definitely mass-market quality, a book that's under $3 and has the "Lend Me" sticker on it is frequently a no-brainer purchase for me. And it isn't all cheap junk. One of them recently showed up in dead tree form at the supermarket and Barnes&Noble brick&mortar, nicely packaged in paperback form at a respectable paperback price.

    22. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by brainzach · · Score: 1

      I don't think he implies that every pirate copy represents a loss sale. It is just as unreasonable to assume that none of the 22,000 who pirated the book would have bought it. There is likely a percentage of the pirates who would have bought the book if there was no free copy available.

      If only 10% of the people who have downloaded the book for free would have bought it, then the author would have almost doubled their sales.

    23. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      To clarify, I'm citing Stross' MCOB and saving people the time it takes to click on the link.

    24. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      ... your false conclusion assumes that none of the people who bought the book did so after hearing about it from someone who downloaded it, which is - of course - quite absurd.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    25. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are 22,000+ people who would either have never read his book

      Well, if I were an author, I'd take more comfort in knowing that people who didn't want to buy my book don't get to enjoy it.

      who are now - if it was any good - likely to mention it to someone else who may well then go out and but it

      Which means pirates either:
      a) Are the type of assholes who feel entitled to stuff for free, but get their "friends" to foot the bill for their habit.
      b) Value their friends. Friends who may have otherwise bought the product, but now don't need to because their buddy gave them a free copy.

      But no, really, I enjoyed your fantasy scenario that never happens in the real world, it's always fun seeing the type of fantastic stories that pirates can come up to make themselves look like heroes instead of the scum they are. With a creative mind like that, you could write a great fantasy novel!

      And when you do, I'll be first in line to give all my friends the copy of it I downloaded, safe in the knowledge you're cool with it. You know, so they can tell their friends to download it, who'll tell their friends to download it, and maybe if you're lucky, and the planets are all aligned, one of those friends will actually buy a copy of your book after reading the downloaded version. If they really,really like it (enough to read it again after finishing the pirated "trial" version). And they feel the price is right. And their purchase comes with a softcover, hardcover and DRM-free digital copy. With free shipping. Via overnight courier. To Antarctica. And the ebook is in PDF format. And txt format. But the txt newlines better be CR, not CR+LF or LF, because his obscure hardware platform doesn't accept anything else. And you better offer more payment methods than cash, debit, cheque, credit card, Paypal, Amazon Checkout, Google Checkout or BitCoin, because he has a problem with those payment methods. And the download must be available for his entire lifetime. And he must be allowed to sell the ebook 2nd hand. Only once you meet those conditions will he buy your book. ...Oh, wait. He just found out he needs to enter his name and address to have the book delivered. You fucking monster, how could you? You're clearly selling an inferior product. Not only will he not buy a copy of your book, but he will pirate all your future books just to spite you for treating him like a criminal.

    26. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by fiordhraoi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am one of the people who has downloaded pretty much every Dresden and Codex Alera book from some sort of pirating website. Why? Because I bought every single one of those books as a physical book. Most of them in hardcover, too. To me, I've already paid my dues, so to speak - the pirating is simply the easiest way for me to convert the format of something I already own. If publishers offered a code in the physical book to get the ebook for free, or cheap, or something similar, then I would likely have done that. I may be the minority in this, but knowing my friends and those who have done the same thing, I'd guess from anecdotal evidence that we're at least a substantial plurality.

    27. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear this argument a lot. But what exactly is so "painful" about say Amazon.com's DRM?

      To start with, it doesn't allow me to read the thing on any device I want to read it on.

      Second, if I decide to use an Amazon device, it doesn't allow me to buy my book whereever I want it to buy (and just maybe I want to buy a book not available at Amazon; but even if available, I might want to buy it elsewhere anyway, maybe because someone else sells it cheaper, or maybe because I just like the web interface of that other shop better, or simply because I'm not interested in giving Amazon a complete overview over what I read - yes, I'm also buying only a minority of my paper books at Amazon).

      Third, I have no guarantee that I'll be able to read the book 20 years from now, even if I still have the file, and still have a device able to read ebooks.

    28. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Charles Stross also has an explanation of why reducing ebook costs to that level is impractical...

      Indeed. Those hundreds of thousands of $0.99 e-books on Amazon can't possibly exist.

      A while back I saw a study of the top 100 SF best-seller e-books on Amazon and if I remember correctly the most popular price was $2.99.

      Sure, a trade publisher with shareholders and a fancy New York office can't afford to sell books at that price, but plenty of writers can.

    29. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure, the first time something new's put down on paper, it's hard, but now that the formula's out there, swords and sorcery is easy. The real trick is to come up with something new, like Shadow War of the Night Dragons (first book in a five to seven book trilogy). Now this is a work of art that hardly anyone on the planet would dare try to make but man, here it is.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    30. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "my sizable library of over a hundred books"...

      Oh, you bookworm, you...

      Sizable? I think about 500 books would be described as 'sizable'.

    31. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by BlackCreek · · Score: 1

      I think there are a lot of digital hoarders. Just like the people who just hoarded mp3/porn/videos in their computers, now some do that with books as well.

      I believe most of those downloaders were not going to be customers anyway.

    32. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by BlackCreek · · Score: 1

      Recently, however, I decided to move house and found that moving my sizable library of over a hundred books and a stack of journals is a tiresome undertaking.

      I moved a lot in recent years. Will move again in 3 years time (has to do with the job). Turning all that paper weight and volume into digital files and the adjustable font sizes are the real killer e-reader features. Instant dictionary look-ups when reading a foreign language also a huge bonus, although I reckon there is less people that benefits from that.

    33. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

      Sizable? I think about 500 books would be described as 'sizable'.

      All told it's three 2x1.2 meter shelves full of books and journals and the 100 books is not counting my technical and computer books nor does it count miscellaneous other printed stuff including various books that are family heirlooms dating back to the 17th century which together fill another four similar shelves. The 100 books are just the stuff I like to keep close for my research work. Being able to carry all of those 100 or so books plus several hundred journals around on an iPad would be awesome. Mind you I would probably be better off with a Galaxy Tab since it offers you the option of external storage. If you fill up the 64 Gb on your iPad you are shit out of luck. People keep telling me to use cloud storage which is an OK idea in a world where mobile bandwidth does not cost money.

      --
      Only to idiots, are orders laws.
      -- Henning von Tresckow
    34. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by RivenAleem · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If someone can get a message to him I'd like for him to try the following:

      On his next book, ensure that it is sold with the most Draconian DRM possible and then check the sales stats vs the piracy stats after a similar timeframe.

    35. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      I read what you quoted (link goes to a login page so didn't read more than that) but it doesn't say anything about DRM, either for or against.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    36. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Your assumption is that people who download it never buy it if they like it. Maybe they want to look through the book before they buy it ... you know ... like you always could before they went DRM? For all we know the vast majority of the 2500 e-book sales were made to a subset of the 22,000 people who downloaded it first to see if it was worth forking out the money. I know many people who grab a few songs off the net from an artist, and in the event that they actually like it they fork out the money for the CD. There is no reason why books would or should be different.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    37. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      Those hundreds of thousands of $0.99 e-books on Amazon can't possibly exist.

      But, let's not confound the issue by pointing out that all of those eBooks are DRM'd by Amazon, and Amazon sets their price, not the authors, and Amazon couldn't care less if the author is living in a refrigerator box by the railroad tracks, as long as the title exists for Amazon to use as a loss leader to pump e-reader sales and drive circulation for items with a better margin.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    38. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 3, Informative

      Those hundreds of thousands of $0.99 e-books on Amazon can't possibly exist.

      They can and do exit, but the problem with the problem often is that at that price point it isn't cost effective to have the book properly edited, copy checked and typeset. The result of that is a book with less polished writing, more mistakes and poor typesetting. These processes make more of a difference than you think. I've read plenty of books self published by the author, while great reads the difference in overall production quality was noticeable.

      Badly typeset books with mistakes in are more difficult to read and even the best authors rely heavily on their editors to shape and refine the book before publication.

    39. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Funny

      a book that's under $3 and has the "Lend Me" sticker on it is frequently a no-brainer purchase for me.

      This is sorta the perfect business model -- acquire something, essentially for no cost, and price it where it is a "no brainer," so that even if it's crap the buyer never goes back for a refund or even internalizes the lesson that maybe he shouldn't buy cheap-ass things.

      And it isn't all cheap junk.

      An endorsement that rings across the ages.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    40. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 1

      I've already paid my dues, so to speak

      Except you haven't, you have paid for one copy of the book. You now have two copies of the book, one printed and a second digital copy.

    41. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

      See... DRM doesn't work. It just encourages piracy because the pirates see LESS competition from the original publisher, who typically is trying to find some way to make it harder to read the books, like denying it on certain devices or under certain operating systems.

      And look at that attitude from Jim Butcher ... "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

      If he is wanting to whine about pirates, he's not going to be getting that whining around very far by cutting people off from it. So I simply cannot take that guy seriously. And no, I did not register or sign up at his site. There's no reason he needs my personal info. I suggest if you think his writing is important for us to know, you copy it to a followup post here on Slashdot. Then maybe we will read the writings of that lunatic.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    42. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you got a pat on the head ("thanks for just giving away all your shit, dude!"), and you *potentially* reached a large audience.

      Please come by and show off those potential wheels you bought with sales from your potential large audience. I can buy you a real coffee while you think of the potential nice dinner you could theoretically afford.

      Sucker.

    43. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      I have at least a few hundred and I still think my "library" is tiny.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    44. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      1) Would DRM stop people from doing this? Highly unlikely.

      I admit I pirate books. BUT, I buy them in deadtree format first - that way I have a nice looking collection, a backup should poewr go out and batteries die (or if I want to get away from it all), the author gets paid, and DRM-free. Win-win.

      Of course, my favorite publisher is Baen, who includes ebook copies of the books, but more books, and then encourages you to share them.

      Those hundreds of thousands of $0.99 e-books on Amazon can't possibly exist.

      Most are books being mass-spammed like private-works-reserved, or literal ebook version of Wikipedia pages, etc. Heck, there were some books that scammed off popular titles (say like a book entitled "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo Thingamajig" by Steve Lawson). The 99 cent area is a mess.

    45. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      I enjoyed the da Vinci Code and think it's worth a buck as an entertaining no thought read.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    46. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by compro01 · · Score: 1

      2. Maybe people aren't paying for his work because it... sucks? (I don't know, haven't read his work)

      The last 2 books of Jim's Dresden files series hit #1 on the New York Times best sellers list. I think it's safe to say people are buying his work, just not so much in ebook form due to his publisher being boneheaded about it.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    47. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by BronsCon · · Score: 2

      I pirate media I've paid for because it often truly is a superior product. No DRM, I can install it on all of my computers (only one of which will it ever be used on at any given time), I can reinstall it as often as I want, and when the DRM servers are offline, I can still use it. This applies to software, music, books, and whatever other media.

      If I happen to pirate some media I have not yet paid for, it is either because I can not find elsewhere to preview said media, or because I intend to purchase it when I have the disposable funds in order to do so. In the case of previewing, if I like it, I keep it, then I buy it; otherwise, I get rid of it.

      I currently have one piece of pirated media that is not associated with a purchase, a copy of Image-Line FL Studio 10, which will be purchased in the next couple weeks. I'll even use the license I buy because I actually gain some benifit (access to online sample libraries and support) by doing so.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    48. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by tgibbs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed. Those hundreds of thousands of $0.99 e-books on Amazon can't possibly exist.

      A while back I saw a study of the top 100 SF best-seller e-books on Amazon and if I remember correctly the most popular price was $2.99.

      For the most part, the $.99 books on Amazon are from authors who are trying to build an audience. For the most part, they are not up to the quality of a full-price book in editing or proofreading, but readers understand the tradeoffs of a $0.99 book. This is a good thing, in my opinion, as it makes it easier for talented young authors to get a start, but for an author that I know and like, I'm perfectly willing to pay a few bucks more for a more polished work.

      Another good thing about ebooks is that it makes it possible for authors to keep their backlist in print and offer discounts on these older works. Again, this helps to bring in new readers, some of whom will hopefully be enthusiastic enough to pay full price for the author's more recant works. The "first one is (almost) free" deal works for authors as it does for drug dealers.

      In other words, these are loss leaders. But professional editing and proofreading, promotion, and translation into other languages, not to mention advances to authors so that they can afford to write as a full-time profession don't come cheap. So while there will be deals on older books and books by new authors, don't expect prices to drop drastically for new books by established authors.

    49. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a non-Amazon, non-Barnes and Noble e-reader. There are stores that sell e-books for them.

      I bought the first Dresden Files novel for it, for about $5. I thought it was pretty good. So I bought the second.

      Then I went to buy the third. None of the stores that sold books for my reader- in either MobiPocket or ePub - had it.

      I emailed a couple. 'Why do you have books 1 and 2, and books 4 and up, but not book 3?' They were all missing just that one.

      The answer: 'The publisher hasn't licensed that one book for digital distribution.'

      So I pirated it. If they'll sell me 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and up, but not 3? I'm just going to 'acquire' 3.

      Turns out I didn't like 3 that much anyway.

      If Jim Butcher wanted his books to sell as e-books, he ought to have made sure they were *for sale*. That one volume not being an official ebook didn't keep me from pirating it. (It appeared to have been scanned from a paperback - not a cracked DRM copy from somewhere else.)

      I still buy ebooks when I can, but the 'agency pricing model' has pretty much killed the indie e-book stores. Alas.

    50. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Aside from being completely wrong, that was a great post.

      Few of those books have DRM and the price is generally set by the author because the big publishers demanded that Amazon stop setting prices itself and let them set the price instead. You may not have noticed, but there's currently a big lawsuit going on about publishers colluding to raise e-book prices, not lower them.

      Yes, you'll occasionally see a book from a trade publisher discounted to $0.99, but they're the rare exception.

    51. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Badly typeset books with mistakes in are more difficult to read and even the best authors rely heavily on their editors to shape and refine the book before publication.

      Yet the worst complaints I've seen about e-books are trade publishers charging $9.99 or more for books they've just scanned, OCR-ed and released with no quality checks.

    52. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by damnbunni · · Score: 2

      Amazon.com won't sell me an ebook that I can read on my Bookeen Cybook Opus (an e-ink reader with a smaller screen than average; it fits handily into a trouser pocket.)

      So if I want to buy an ebook from Amazon, I have to strip the DRM to read it on my e-reader.

      I can DO that - it's not at all difficult - but it's an annoying extra step.

    53. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've bought every one of his books, many of them in hardcover. If I want to download a pirated version for my Kindle, I really don't see why his jimmies are all rustled.

    54. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Only 20K? I would be kind of disappointed if only 20K people were pirating my work.

      It sounds like Jim needs to go to more cons and do more of his own promotion work since obviously his "publisher" is laying down on the job.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    55. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      >> I've already paid my dues, so to speak
      >
      > Except you haven't, you have paid for one copy of the book. You now have two copies of the book, one printed and a second digital copy.

      So what?

      As long as he doesn't sell or give away his legitimate physical copy, this should not be a situation where the law or the courts can punish him. No actual harm has been done.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    56. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      You now have two copies of the book, one printed and a second digital copy.

      Are you under the impression that format shifting was illegal?

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    57. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But even that is just introduced typographical errors. Not having a protagonist's name change from Suzane to Susan half way through the book, or having the type of car being driven change part way through a scene. That's just copy-editing, and has gotten less common as e-books have been getting created from the same electronic copy of the text as the printed book.

      In comparison, the biggest quality-complaint about the $.99 books on Amazon seems to be that they haven't had *any* editing done beyond that of a spell-checker and the author's best effort. That means you've got about 8-10 times as many typographical errors as those 'bad' OCR-ed e-books, scenes that drag on *far* too long, because the author didn't know what to cut, pacing that's all over the place, and inconsistent names, locations, and timelines.

      Yes, typos suck. But the reason those $.99 books exist is because the author cut corners and released a *manuscript* rather than getting it properly edited and massaged into a proper *novel*.

    58. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by radtea · · Score: 1

      But it's interesting to see what some of the authors have to say about it. Here's a comment from Jim Butcher

      Curiously, I was looking at the latest Dresden Files book in Amazon.com last night: it's a buck more expensive than the hardback version.

      I wonder if this feeling of rip-off pricing could have anything to do with rate of piracy?

      I won't pirate stuff, but I sure as hell won't pay more for DRM-crippled bits than I will for dead trees between hardcovers, even when the DRM is easily stripped: http://www.tjradcliffe.com/?p=639

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    59. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by radtea · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and a bunch of songs is not the same thing as an album, so I guess there are no indie bands anywhere making any money on anything.

      Stoss' argument is laughable: he assumes that authors are incapable of hiring proof-readers, editors and marketers at better rates (because they have lower overheads) than publishers. He assumes that publishers have zero overhead.

      Every claim he makes applies identically to indie music, and if any of them were true no indie music scene would exist. And yet it does, because musicians can hire in studio time and producers and all of that, more cheaply and more efficiently than big labels can. Do they get rich? Not generally, no. But then, neither do authors with big publishing houses.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    60. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      e-books will not seriously take off until they are suitably cheap. ...That won't happen for a very long time, book publishers are terrified of losing control of the entire distribution and "scarcity" control.

      I knew it! It's a conspiracy! I also reckon that the eBook publishers shot footage of the Apollo landings from the grassy knoll! Not to mention [insert favourite conspiracy theory here]

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    61. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      I put the video game I spent two years creating up on the pirate bay.

      I think we agree that it's only well established folks who are even inclined to complain about piracy.

    62. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hard work is in the writing, but the MARGINAL COSTS in producing a book are tiny for eBooks relative to dead tree versions. For a physical book, selling an extra 10,000 copies would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000 in production costs whereas for eBooks, I'd be surprised if the server usages and bandwidth would run more than $100 (probably closer to $10). What this means is that while selling 10,000 for $10 is the same revenue as selling 20,000 at $5.50 each for a physical book, selling 20,000 at $5.50 for an eBook would represent significant additional revenue. Of course a lot depends on the shape of the demand curve - will you sell more than twice as many copies at $1 as at $2? Probably not, but at $8 rather than $16 probably so. This means that eBooks should have a lower long term price point than conventional books. The disconnect is that authors/publishers cling to hardback as the norm whereas many consumers think of paperbacks at the $5.99-7.99 price point as the norm and get upset at $10-15 eBooks.

    63. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Sizable? I think about 500 books would be described as 'sizable'.

      All told it's three 2x1.2 meter shelves full of books and journals

      Heh, between my husband and I, we have seven bookcases full, and we're looking at adding an eighth 'cause we're running out of room. The vast majority are paperback, maybe about 10-15% hardcover, and another (maybe) 5% technical manuals / textbooks / comics / recipe books / etc. I haven't done a tally for about five years or so, but I know we were *well* over a thousand books last time I did check...and still growing...

      Yeah. I don't ever want to move again. On the plus side, we never have to hunt for something interesting to read...or re-read :)

      You know what would be an interesting eBook purchasing model? 'Loyal customer' pricing. Say I want to buy the eBook version of a novel I already own, and it costs $9.99. It would be *so* cool if, at the checkout page, I could scan the barcode (or photograph the front cover, whatever) my existing book and get an instant discount on the eBook copy. I've already bought the book and so I don't really need an electronic copy, other than for my own convenience, yet this way the author still gets some new revenue while 'thanking' me for supporting their past works.

      I know, such a system would be open to exploitation (hang out at a friends place or the library and send in scans of their books, e.g.), or I could just get the eBook copy, then turn around and sell my used copy (NEVER! It's MINE! my precious...), but all in all, it would be a cool idea. Maybe then I could start retiring our collection to the attic, bit by bit...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    64. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      (Paper and ink are dirt cheap; proofreaders and marketing teams aren't.)

      I refuse to buy an ebook that is priced at the same price as the mass market paperback.
      This has nothing to do with how much they paid the proofreader, or the lumberjack. It comes down to how much I am willing to pay. Barnes and Noble gives me %10 off the cover price for a mass market paper back. So why should I then pay more for the ebook?
      The same proofreading and marketing and layout goes into generating the mass market paperback. In addition there is a cost for the physical book. Paper, shipping, storage.
      I'm not asking for dirt cheap, or free ebooks. Just don't charge me more for the ebook.

    65. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      The poor bastard!

      Well so far all that supposed word of both has generated 2500 sales. So yeah "poor" is accurate. Over 90 percent of your "fan" base doesn't think much of you, other than to be selfish and greedy.

    66. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the GP did was illegal under US copyright law. On the other hand, if the GP scanned and OCRed the book himself, it would have been perfectly legal as it would just be format shifting. The distinction seems pretty arbitrary.

    67. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Jesus, it's absolutely how much ignorance you manage to pack into this post.

    68. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by rcharbon · · Score: 1

      Without BitTorrent, I would never have heard of Jim Butcher, so I wouldn't have bought his latest book when it came out.

    69. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're a traditional publisher, eh? Sure sounds like one, regardless. It will suck to be you, in the future. Good riddance, too.

    70. Re:No One Hates DRM More Than Me ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baen does for authors who agree to it. The works of Lois McMaster Bujold for example have a CD inside the back cover with the story bought, a selection of other novels in the same series and various extra writings not found elsewhere.

  3. It could just be me... by Tastecicles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...Project Gutenberg has had more money from me (a few hundred Pounds in donations by now, easily, plus time spent volunteering as a proofreader and space and bandwidth given over for distribution which has got to be worth something) than Amazon, B&N or any other major online publisher/distributor ever has. Why? Because their ebooks aren't locked down to fuckery.

    Call me cynical, or a pirate, or whatever you want to call me, but I'm not about to buy something I can't use. IF DRM PREVENTS ME FROM TRANSFERRING FILES FROM AN OLD DEVICE TO A NEW ONE WITH NO FURTHER OUTLAY REQUIREMENT THEN I AM NOT INTERESTED.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    1. Re:It could just be me... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      As much as I think ebook DRM is bad, this isn't a problem with the kindle "ecosystem." I broke my gen 2 kindle earlier this year and had no problem at all putting my old purchases on my new Kindle touch. Not to mention I could still read it on my phone, in the cloud reader, on various other desktop readers, etc.

      However, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to put the same content on another type of reader completely outside of the kindle system, but that would probably be considered another argument.

    2. Re:It could just be me... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      Will you be able to take the books with you on your next non-kindle reader?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:It could just be me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DRM strippers for ebooks have been around for years, it's a one click problem. If you don't know how to do it, you're on the wrong site.

      People that read books are in the minority, it takes time to get through them. Most would rather play games, watch mindless TV shows and reruns, etc. The market is small. Even with so-called pirated books, most people will still not be reading them.

      I still enjoy reading, but I'm in the minority. Almost everyone around me prefers altenative entertainment media.

    4. Re:It could just be me... by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand I can see how getting rid of DRM could really create better competition. I bought the first two books from The Hunger Games from Chapters/Indigo for my Kobo. When it came time to get the third book, the price had jumped from about $6 to somewhere around $12. I noticed that Amazon still had the book listed for $6. So I bought the Kindle version, cracked the DRM and moved it to my Kobo (This is legal in Canada as far as I know). I have no problem paying for books, and supporting authors, but there's not reason one retailer should be charging twice as much as another retailer for the exact same book. Most people have no idea how to do this, so when they see an unfair price from one retailer, they can either pay the extra money, or just download a pirated copy (which is more simple than breaking the DRM on a rightfully obtained copy). DRM (in it's current form) is unfair because it locks the user into a specific hardware vendor and a specific book store. If you don't like the price the book store is offering, you don't have the option of shopping around for a better price. This is bad for the consumer, and bad for the retailer. People will be hesitant to jump on the e-book bandwagon because they are unsure if they want to be locked into a particular store. And retailers can't really compete on the price of books, because after you've bought the reader, you don't have much of a choice of where to buy books from.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:It could just be me... by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 2

      If it's android, then yes. Probably iOS too. Or a PC, yes, absolutely. The only real question is what happens when amazon folds.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    6. Re:It could just be me... by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 1

      If your alt-reader runs android, then amazon provides a kindle reader app which is almost more convenient than the kindle itself (minus e-ink); so if your alt-reader can sideload or official load the amazon store or amazon kindle reader app, you're good. Yes, you can read on an alt-reader.

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    7. Re:It could just be me... by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I spend around 10hrs a week on public transport going to and from work - it's the price I pay for living in a forest outside of the city - which consequently allows me around 10hrs a week of reading time. I could be playing games on my phone, or my tablet - but most of the time, I'm reading.

      On the rare occasions I look up from my book, it seems I'm not alone. At least a half of the passengers on the train are reading something.

      --
      ... wait, what?
    8. Re:It could just be me... by RDW · · Score: 2

      However, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to put the same content on another type of reader completely outside of the kindle system, but that would probably be considered another argument.

      Well, this is one reason (maybe the main reason) why ebook DRM still exists - not to benefit the authors or publishers, but to lock buyers into the Kindle system (or equivalent). The locks are easy to pick, of course, and with even mainstream sites like Wired linking to DRM stripping guides, you have to wonder how long this will be sustainable:

      http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/how-to-strip-drm-from-kindle-e-books-and-others/

      This makes removal so easy and seamless, you almost (as with DVD DRM) forget it exists. Now that Amazon has such a strong market position, perhaps they'll decide this minimal 'protection' has served its purpose and get rid of it, just as Apple did with audio DRM when iTunes had blown away the competition.

    9. Re:It could just be me... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      That is impossible. You mean to say that the publieck skool system actually works and half the people on the train can read!?

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    10. Re:It could just be me... by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      Literacy in Australia (where I am) is actually quite high... so I'd say yes (with the caveat that we have a lot of private schools here too!).

      --
      ... wait, what?
    11. Re:It could just be me... by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      It's very easy to convert kindle books to other formats. If ALL those formats - mobi, epub, pdf, etc. go away, I'm sure there will be at the very least an easy way to convert from pdf to the newest format.

    12. Re:It could just be me... by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      It's not quite one click. Last I tried, which admittedly was about three months ago, stripping DRM from MobiPocket formats still required screwing around with Python scripts that only worked on Windows machines.

      It may be easier with ePub; I don't have any DRM'd ePub, so I've never tried.

      If you do know a one-click Mobi DRM stripper, lemme know!

    13. Re:It could just be me... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      I thought this whole article was about how Kindle books were all DRM restricted.
      It may be easy to find an application to do the converting for you, but you'll have to jump over some (possibly illegal in the future) DRM barriers to get there.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    14. Re:It could just be me... by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      The article is based on a completely incorrect premise. Publishers decide to put on DRM or not; there's a fuckton of DRM-free books available in the Kindle store. No barriers to jump over, and even if you don't feel like converting them, you can simply move the book over to Kindle for PC, Kindle for Android, Kindle for IOS, etc.

    15. Re:It could just be me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DRM is unfair because it locks the user

      retailers can't really compete on the price of books ...

      That is called a monopoly and is the dream of every retailer. Razor blades and printer cartridges are an attempt at physical 'rights management' to create a monopoly. But their competitors just copy their design eliminating the strangle-hold. In the physical world re-jigging the manufacturing mold for every model is exorbitant (luxury items like mobile phones and e-tablets excepted). So the result is standardisation, which allows mass-manufacturing and inter-operability. We all know DRM eliminates copying and standardisation and inter-operability while allowing mass-manufacturing, so it an automatic monopoly. No business will claim reducing competition is a bad thing.

        So really the point becomes: Increasing standardisation and inter-operability (by removing DRM) will increase the consumption of intellectual property (IP) and increase profits. Without vendor lock-in, consumption will obviously increase, but it is difficult to argue that profits will. Without DRM, they are allowing a competitor to sell an identical (pirated) product, without the costs of R&D. It is impossible to prove that will be more profitable than forcing non-paying 'customers' to hand-over money for every download via DRM.

      I suggested the purpose of DRM is really extortion. In essence, a product can only be sold if I can exclude others using it, such as a movie ticket. Exclusivity allows revenue proportional to the number of consumers and eliminates free riders. So obviously IP creators implement DRM and gain an honest revenue stream: Wrong!

      The problem being that DRM doesn't work. One reaction would be to make the cost of the IP equal to the cost of the alternative (cracking the DRM). The other is totalitarian management: "If I increase the quantity of control (DRM) I will achieve the desired goal (of eliminating free-riders)." Which is like saying that pouring more oil on a fire will extinguish it. At some point it is true, but one probably won't achieve it quickly and economically. Just like feeding oil to a fire, increasing control (DRM) causes significant collateral damage. In the case of DRM, the loyalty and goodwill of paying customers is damaged. Increased control (DRM) doesn't benefit the paying customers and can't, quickly and economically, convert free-riders into new customers. It merely attempts to extort honesty from the free-riders.

    16. Re:It could just be me... by scifigod · · Score: 1

      Hell I was more shocked when put the words public transportation and outside of the city in the same sentence. Round these parts if you can even SEE the city border you're out of luck for public transport. Ahh the joys of midwestern united states...

  4. Bean has done drm free for years by bitflusher · · Score: 3, Informative

    At Bean (http://www.baen.com/) the books are drm free and in all sorts of formats. When I buy a book I make shure it will be readable in the future on any new device I own no even when the store drm server crashes or the publisher goes belly side up. The books I buy at Bean don't have to be cracked in order to do this. One little confession: only 2 books and 1 monthly bundle were bought at Bean by me (I still buy books because for reading pleasure, not DRM free-ness).

    1. Re:Bean has done drm free for years by Drantin · · Score: 2

      You got the URL right, but you spelled the name as "Bean" twice. o.O

      --
      Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
    2. Re:Bean has done drm free for years by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      www.damnyouautocorrect.com ? :)

      --
      ... wait, what?
    3. Re:Bean has done drm free for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baen also puts a lot of their old library up on the internet for free! They discovered that giving away old ebooks actually generates more physical copy sales...

  5. Pottermore... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think one factor which has really changed publisher's views in the past few weeks on this issue is the success that J.K. Rowling has had selling Harry Potter online. She deliberately waited a long time before allowing eBook versions, as much to get things settled out, but the result is very clean: even Amazon just directs to the Potter site, which then links back to all the DRM'ed eReaders as well as providing direct downloads in ePub.

    So she's getting most of the money (well, her and her publisher), not Amazon, she dictates the price, and is no longer affected by the Amazon Monopsony that Amazon has gained by being the most common (but not universal) ebook platform. While a buyer no longer has to worry about DRM lockin: the books they buy will read anywhere, painlessly.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
    1. Re:Pottermore... by wrook · · Score: 1

      The prices on Pottormore are even quite reasonable. I would easily pay double for the Japanese version of the e-book, but alas it doesn't seem to be for sale. E-books let me look up words in the dictionary very quickly so they are much more convenient than paper for studying. I hope they figure it out. As strange as it sounds, they probably don't own the copyright for the Japanese version... sigh.

    2. Re:Pottermore... by netsavior · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wanted to clarify (as an author who works with amazon) Amazon does not require DRM.
      Want to publish your book DRM free with amazon? That is a CHECKBOX on their interface.

      All of my novels are published DRM free in the kindle store. I insisted on it because DRM is annoying to ME as a paying customer, because I like to decide which readers I read my books on personally, and I would like to afford my customers and fans (even the ones that pirate) the same courtesy.

      The first time a fan comes up to you sheepishly and says "I saw your book on TPB and started reading it, and well... can you sign this hardback for me, I bought all your other books too." You really get it.

      I push (and sometimes pay personally) to have my books in libraries, I made sure they are available for free in the kindle lending library, I make sure they are DRM free, I have to respect my customers, or they will never respect me.

    3. Re:Pottermore... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Clicked on the 'hompage' link in your message header to see what sort of stuff you write. Got a domain parking site that tried to give me a nasty of some sort. FYI.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    4. Re:Pottermore... by netsavior · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I forgot to remove it. Someone bought the domain when I foolishly let it expire, then I never re-acquired it.

    5. Re:Pottermore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an author releasing books on Amazon please please lobby them to make DRM info available on your books' pages. I know some authors don't put DRM on their books. However, I have seen no indication on the page of the Kindle version of books that indicates when a book is DRM free. I would actually consider buying some Kindle books if I knew I which ones were DRM free.

    6. Re:Pottermore... by netsavior · · Score: 2
      If it is DRM free, the product details have the following phrase:

      * Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited

    7. Re:Pottermore... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      What does pottermore have to do with anything? Amazon doesn't set the prices, the publishers do. The publishers can release books to several sellers, Barnes and Noble, Apple AND even Amazon.

  6. I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Shivetya · · Score: 2

    The only guarantee I want is that regardless of the DRM method used that the original provider of the material does not have to exist for me to continue to access the books I purchased. This would most likely require some form of public repository for the encryption keys.

    Real books have their own DRM which is simply, whomever has it has access to it. Digital copies are simply to easy to give away. How can that one property physical copies have be replicated in the digital world without inconveniencing the end user and opening the publisher to loss by copying? Water marking doesn't seem practical, let alone enforceable.

    I do wish that DRM protected works were a lot cheaper.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      What you ask for is the exact opposite DRM intends to accomplish. Just Say No.

    2. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      How is Watermarking not practical?

      Someone buys the book, the server builds the book on the fly with the user ID placed at the appropriate places in the book and provides a link for the download which applies to that specific user.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    3. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by webdog314 · · Score: 1

      I think what they mean is that it doesn't really change anything. You still can't give your book to a friend, or even lend it out without risking that somewhere along the line it could be pirated and leave you at the sharp end of the law. We *hope* our friends are trustworthy enough, but shit happens. Someone steals your laptop, or a college buddy uses your computer and uploads the book to TPB with your name on it, whatever. Watermarking is dangerous because it makes *you* liable for protecting the copyright of a purchase. If someone steals a physical book from me, then I'm just out a book. If someone steals a watermarked ebook and then distributes it, I could be liable. The problem is that I *shouldn't* be. Theoretically, you can't *prove* that it was me who infringed, even though my name is on the book.

      This is a serious shift in copyright. It takes the onus of protection off of copyright holders, and puts it on the reader/user. That seems like a really bad idea from the consumer's point of view.

    4. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Zerth · · Score: 1

      It's text. Where, exactly, are they going to hide the watermark? Any of the tricks one would use to watermark, say, a movie script would trivially be defeated with a book.

      Strip the markup, replace varying spacing, repaginate, and then compare three copies for word choice/spelling.

      Or just OCR the print book like the guys on IRC have been doing since 1988.

    5. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      DRM is trival to strip out as well, a decade of DRM for books, music and movies have done nothing to slow down piracy but has done a load of damage to public relations between each of the industries and their paying customers.

      Watermarking provides some means of tracing a possible source of a pirated copy found on a file sharing service (although that is not necessarily the actual person who has uploaded the file) while not doing anything which prevents customers using the file they have brought.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    6. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once they have the data, why can't the "watermark" be removed, anyway?

    7. Re:I have no real problem with DRM on my ebooks by Reziac · · Score: 1

      And what happens when the public key repository also goes tits-up?

      It's not like public repositories have never died without warning, taking all the files with them (eg. ftp.cdrom.com).

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  7. Knowledge in the World vs. Knowledge in the Head by michaelmalak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the 90's, the distinction was popularly called Knowledge in the World vs. Knowledge in the Head. As our communication and recording systems improve, we externalize more of our knowledge. First we recorded knowledge in books rather than memorize poetry. Now we rely on Google instead of memorizing facts.

    Every book we read, therefore, constitutes a portion of our externalized knowledge. Some of what we read might get memorized, but most of it gets absorbed as an awareness where we know we can look it up again in the future (moves knowledge from DK-DK to K-DK). By agreeing to DRM, eBook users place control of part of their knowledge -- part of their mind, if you will -- in the hands of corporations. The corporations are practicing mind control with DRM.

  8. DRM has to go because of competition not good will by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am from Asia-Pacific region. The books over there are dirty cheap. The same book sold in US for $100 could be listed ~$6. Even with $6, many simply download "free" bootleg version.

    IMHO, cheaper books means lower barriers in obtaining knowledge. Lower such barriers will benefit a country to improve their competitive edge.

    Given that US is not dominating the technology frontier any more, it is inevitable to systematically lower down the barrier to knowledge at least from society and government level.

  9. re: Butcher's pricing by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Butcher prices his Dresden files books at over $10 a pop. I read the first four or five but the pricing is too stupid and the quality's simply not that good. Not for significantly greater than pulp paperback.

    If he priced his stuff at $6 a pop I would have read the catalog. But $12? Now you're taking advantage.

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
  10. B&N will be gone in 5 years by alen · · Score: 1

    between amazon and apple there will be no more B&N soon

    even though i have 2 iphones and an ipad i still buy all my books in kindle format. it's the closest standard there is that works across a lot of different hardware from different manufacturers

    1. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think ePub (with or without Adobe drm) is working way wider range of devices than Kindle mobi.

    2. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      even though i have 2 iphones and an ipad i still buy all my books in kindle format. it's the closest standard there is that works across a lot of different hardware from different manufacturers

      Provided that the hardware was sold to you by Amazon, or it's NOT a dedicated ebook reader. Kindle format works on Kindle, mobile phones, computers, etc.
      If you want to buy a eBook reader with an E Ink screen you can open Kindle format on the Kindle and ePub on everything else (Nook, Sony, Kobo, Onyx, PocketBook, EZ, ectaco)

    3. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      B&N did themselves in. They bet the company on the Nook, and started reducing inventory in their stores 2-3 years ago. They trained people who wanted books to not bother going to a B&N store because the book likely wouldn't be there. B&N helpfully puts their inventory online now so you can check ahead of time and not even bother going and making impulse purchases. Some day, when the book (heh!) about B&N collapse is written, it will be called "Out of Stock" after what you see when you look up a book in their online inventory system.

      B&N is betting they can sell the Nook for a loss, and people will buy enough content to make up the difference and give them a profit. Good luck!

      Amazon doesn't have to win with the Kindle. Amazon just has to wait for B&N to lose.

    4. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      There are actually some non-Kindle readers that do MobiPocket / PRC, but you'll need to strip the DRM out if you got them from Amazon.

      Annoyingly, while my reader can read ePub and MobiPocket, it can't read both; you have to flash either ePub firmware or MobiPocket firmware, due to DRM licensing issues with Adobe.

      (I use MobiPocket. In my experience while ePub has a better feature set in theory, MobiPocket actually works better.)

    5. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by doom · · Score: 1

      B&N did themselves in. They bet the company on the Nook, and started reducing inventory in their stores 2-3 years ago. They trained people who wanted books to not bother going to a B&N store because the book likely wouldn't be there.

      Part of their schtick is that while you're on the premises of a B&N, your Nook automatically has access to their entire stock, but you need to buy it to access it when you're not on the premises. This may or may not work, but doesn't strike me as being such a dumb idea... I have a feeling they haven't done a great job of explaining that part of the deal.

      Myself, I'm happy with my Nook, but primarily use it to read Epubs from the Gutenberg press. If they dropped DRM *and* dropped the price of new ebooks, I'd think about stocking up on them... as it stands I'll stick to paper for awhile longer.

      (No ipad, no iphone, no "standard" kindle format books... sometimes I wonder how I manage to live.)

    6. Re:B&N will be gone in 5 years by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Annoyingly, while my reader can read ePub and MobiPocket, it can't read both; you have to flash either ePub firmware or MobiPocket firmware, due to DRM licensing issues with Adobe.

      Yes, you are not allowed to have other DRM technologies on an ADE-compatible device. Yet another argument for how incredibly damaging DRM is. I read a lot, and buy the books that are not legal to download, but I invariably strip DRM prior to storing them. This is legal where I live BTW (tested in court). It's also very handy, as it allows me to ignore device constraints and buy books from whichever source. I love my E-Ink ADE-based reader, but haven't even authorised it with ADE. Removing DRM is trivial with the brilliant OSS Calibre and third-party plugins, google "apprentice alf" for all your DRM-liberating needs :)

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  11. Is this about DRM or standardization? by wasabiboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I sense a mix-up between DRM and open/standardization of format. DRM alone doesn't create the kinds of problems outlined in this post. Perhaps we should be more uncomfortable about the lack of inter-operability or portability between purchased eBooks and apps that can display them. I think that DRM would be fine if it was implemented in an open/universal system.

    1. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Loosifur · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree with you more, and if I had mod points I'd mod you up. As someone else pointed out, all DRM is meant to do is to preserve the same security that physical limitations provided before digital editions, i.e. you can only read a book if you're physically holding it, which limits you to one copy. As a writer, I want to get paid for the work I put into writing something, and DRM is one way of ensuring that no one is reading something of mine without my permission. BUT, I also want people to want to buy my stuff, and they're more likely to do that if the ebook version has the same utility as a physical book, meaning portability. Ergo, standardization solves a lot of the piracy issue by increasing the perceived value of each ebook and reducing the burden that DRM places on the consumer.

      --
      This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
    2. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As someone else pointed out, all DRM is meant to do is to preserve the same security that physical limitations provided before digital editions, i.e. you can only read a book if you're physically holding it, which limits you to one copy.

      It's a completely arbitrary restriction since they're not physical items. Not only that, but their DRM often only harms paying customers, because it sure as hell won't harm the pirates who can just crack it.

      As a writer, I want to get paid for the work I put into writing something, and DRM is one way of ensuring that no one is reading something of mine without my permission.

      As a non-pirate, I do not want to be punished for the actions of others (pirates). Take your collective punishment schemes elsewhere. I pay for things because I want to support people who make those things, but when you treat me as a criminal, I'm going to ignore your product entirely and tell everyone else to do the same. I feel for you, but the ends do not justify the means even if DRM worked.

      You're seriously wasting your time by using DRM. The pirates will crack it, and the paying customers will suffer.

    3. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      I think that DRM would be fine if it was implemented in an open/universal system.

      That can't ever be done. The whole point of DRM is to deny people the capability of creating compatible readers.

      DRM means lack-of-standard. It's a way of creating a monopoly for the implementation of I-can-read-X. Without the monopoly, the DRM cannot be "effective."

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    4. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Smauler · · Score: 2

      As someone else pointed out, all DRM is meant to do is to preserve the same security that physical limitations provided before digital editions, i.e. you can only read a book if you're physically holding it, which limits you to one copy.

      If that is what it is meant to do, it has gone horribly wrong. If DRM did do just that, very many fewer people would have a problem with it.

      As a writer, I want to get paid for the work I put into writing something, and DRM is one way of ensuring that no one is reading something of mine without my permission.

      No it's not. Seriously, it's not. DRM is not a way of ensuring that. It does not work.

      BUT, I also want people to want to buy my stuff, and they're more likely to do that if the ebook version has the same utility as a physical book, meaning portability. Ergo, standardization solves a lot of the piracy issue by increasing the perceived value of each ebook and reducing the burden that DRM places on the consumer.

      This is your problem : reducing the burden that DRM places on the consumer. You're saying DRM will always be some kind of burden for the consumer. When the illegal version is _better_ than the one you pay for, people are going to be loathe to money up. People are buying ebooks now, but just torrenting them so they can avoid the DRM.

    5. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Loosifur · · Score: 1

      Think about DRM as a software solution to making something that is intangible (an ebook) have the same constraints that a tangible item has. Ideally, all DRM *should* do is make sure that if you buy one copy of a book, you only have one copy of that book. If you were to go to a bookstore and buy a paperback, you could read it yourself, anywhere, and you could lend it to someone, but you couldn't do both at the same time. For an ebook, all DRM should do is replicate that.

      I don't like where DRM has gone, although I think that it's reached its most draconian point with video games, but I don't think the intent is wrong. And yes, it is a method of ensuring that some stuff doesn't get pirated. There is a continuum of "piracy": at one end are people who will never download anything illegally, ever, no matter what; at the other end are people who will illegally download stuff to the exclusion of legitimate commercial transactions of any kind. Most of the action happens somewhere in the middle. All DRM does is keep casual piracy from happening, same as car alarms or locking your door keeps "honest people honest". But I don't think that demographic is all that small.

      I'm willing to bet that if you limit DRM to simply ensuring that you don't have more than one copy per purchase per user at a time, just like a physical book, and you make it portable by standardizing ebooks to the extent that, at a minimum, there are no device-exclusive features, and add the ability to lend ebooks, you'll strike the right balance between preserving the rights of authors and publishers while also preserving the rights of consumers.

      DRM is supposed to be a burden, in the same way that the inability to make one physical book be in two places at once places a burden on the consumer vis a vis reading the book while simultaneously lending the books to seven friends. That's a burden I'm more than comfortable with both bearing myself and placing on others. The option that some people seem to be taking, the "Well, DRM sucks, and piracy will never stop, so why bother trying" approach, is not a solution. It isn't even a bad solution, it's just a non-solution.

      Incidentally, I don't have a personal problem with "piracy", and have definitely downloaded things in the past (and will in the future) because they weren't available on DVD, or because I wanted to try a demo that didn't exist, or because, like you said, the DRM screwed up the legit version so bad that the only working version is the pirated copy. I've also downloaded ebooks. A hell of a lot of them. In seven years, I have definitely encountered pirated versions of games that were better than the legit retail. I have never--NEVER--encountered an instance where the pirated version of an ebook was better than the legit version. Not once, not in any genre, not with any author.

      --
      This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
    6. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you implement DRM in a free ebook reader program? An open format that requires secret software isn't very open.

    7. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I think that DRM would be fine if it was implemented in an open/universal system.

      Why would it be fine? Do you think universal DRM would actually start preventing piracy?

      Besides, I think this model of yours has already been tried before.

      Microsoft really did want *everyone* to use their DRM. Amazon does want to become the go-between for *all* the transactions happening on the inter-tubes. And the MPAA/RIAA organizations across the world do want *everyone* to become a dues-paying member of their organizations (whether they want it, or not).

      Certainly, that would explain why they're pushing so hard at trying to get legislation passed to collect the revenues/fines/taxes on behalf of even their non-members. What would you suggest they do differently, that they haven't tried yet? Mandate that they all get along? Create a UN body in charge of that DRM? Penalize anyone who tries to roll their own DRM solution? What exactly?

    8. Re:Is this about DRM or standardization? by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      I'm curious, which books have you written? I promise not to buy and distribute them :)

      Now for the bashing:

      And yes, it is a method of ensuring that some stuff doesn't get pirated.

      (My emphasis). Smauler is correct, and I don't think you understand the word "ensuring". Copying will always be possible as long as you can read the content, if everything else fails you can just photograph every page and run the result through Finereader. Note that this is not currently necessary as DRM for every ebook format (yes, all of them) is now removable as far as I know. It should be extremely obvious that what you're doing is not even hindering the pirates very much.

      I don't like where DRM has gone, although I think that it's reached its most draconian point with video games, but I don't think the intent is wrong.

      The intent is not wrong, but the result is horribly misguided, and based on a very poor understanding of how technology works. You're basically flipping off your paying customers, while doing absolutely nothing to "ensure" anything else. What you're up against is pirates delivering a vastly superiour product for free. In reality, most people are honest, and positively want to pay for a book they'd like to read. I work in a publishing company where I amongst other things make and publish DRM-free epub editions, and I have definitely done a bit of thinking about this. I'm also a voracious reader who strips DRM from every book he buys for his personal archive :)

      The harsh reality is that you can't really control *all* distribution of digital content anymore. So yeah, I'm essentially telling you to not even bother. This "non-solution" is far better than any DRM scheme you can annoy your remaining fans with. You also state that a pirated version is NEVER better, which is demonstrably and utterly *wrong*. If you do nothing but stripping DRM by a variety of means the content remains identical -- except for the little fact that you can now use it on virtually all readers ever made, and probably most that will be made. Saying that a DRM-free but otherwise identical file is not better is completely ridiculous. Note that as MS Reader is being shut down, those books will become useless in a relatively short time. Microsofts "Playsforsure" (except in their own fucking product, the Zune) is another delightfully ironic example. I would actually go so far as to say that enticing your customers to buy a crippled product and then shutting down the necessary servers is evil, or at best fraud.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  12. Sure Why Not? by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can't be serious.

    Well, to be fair he doesn't say how much it increases.

    Let's look at examples where this has already worked for me: Bandcamp. From the start they offered music with no DRM at various qualities of lossy and lossless downloads. As a result, for a while I was trying to make it a point to only purchase my music through bandcamp or directly from the little guys. Because the option was there with a large enough volume I could actually do this.

    Oddly enough I can stream all the music on Bandcamp when I'm connected to the internet through my computer and phone and I constantly send out links to friends via e-mail and social media sites (free advertising, more goodwill). So you might ask why I would ever pay anything for the music on Bandcamp but I do because sometimes the music is so good that I want something physical as well or I just want this unknown band from Sweden to have enough gas to make it to their next gig.

    Am I a typical consumer? Probably not but Bandcamp posts their numbers so I know other people are using it:

    To date, artists have made $16,858,713 using Bandcamp, and $1,188,800 in the past 30 days alone.
    Albums outsell tracks 5 to 1 (in the rest of the music buying world, tracks outsell albums 16 to 1).
    On name-your-price albums, fans pay an average of 50% more than the minimum.
    We've driven 2,570,177 paid transactions and served 30,232,263 downloads to happy fans.

    Now, does this goodwill offset someone sharing all of Bandcamp's MP3s? Apparently you don't think the goodwill is worth anything compared to that piracy. Maybe you're right but I would be thrilled if there was a Bandcamp site for ebooks where I could read most if not all of the book before purchasing it. Apparently Stross agrees that something less encumbering than the current model will be a better situation than what they have. Unfortunately, there's no sure way to measure this or to speculate if it will work for small time authors but not for big authors nor can you tell if it will be similar to the music anecdote I listed.

    So, he actually is serious, it's just the magnitude and trade offs that are unknown and scare publishing executives.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Sure Why Not? by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean like this one http://www.baen.com/library/ ?

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    2. Re:Sure Why Not? by Drogo007 · · Score: 2

      If you read the intro to the baen free library (http://www.baen.com/library/intro.asp) you'll find that they discovered that freely available DRM-Free downloads of books CONSISTENTLY increase sales of actual physical copies.

      So I'd say there's a good chance the same principles you talked about in your experience with Bandcamp hold true for eBooks too.

  13. No imagination! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See, what you need to do, is go on the lecture circuit, offer support services, and write a book on what you did and sell thatFree and open is the way. There are plenty of examples of folks who made it big this way.

    You're just stuck in an old outdated business model and you just want to legislate to keep you business going the way it was in the past.

  14. Re: Butcher's pricing by smpoole7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > Butcher prices his Dresden files books at over $10 a pop

    I don't know if it's at the link that I posted, or somewhere else in his forums (search through the "WOJ" -- "Words of Jim" -- I believe it's in his Amazon comments) ... but Butcher actually has an emphatic reply when someone says that to him. HE doesn't set the prices, the publisher does, and he rails at Amazon's pricing on EBooks all the time. :)

    By the way, I should also point out a different view, namely from Eric Flint (www.ericflint.net), who successfully lobbied for the Baen Free Library. Flint is a leader AGAINST DRM and insists that free distribution actually *increases* sales.

    Also, to be fair to Butcher, if you read all of his comments, he's not particularly enamored of DRM. He was just commenting on how the *publishers* view it.

    --
    Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
  15. Amazon monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only reason that Amazon might have an eBook monopoly is that it sells the books using a closed DRM format that only their reader (which is very popular) can decode. Couldn't the publishers break this by simply insisting that Amazon sell their books with an open (DRM or not) format? That way the consumer could decide which reader to use irrespective of where they buy the content and Amazon would be unable to use vender lock-in to dominate the market. Or am I missing something?

    1. Re:Amazon monopoly by netsavior · · Score: 2

      amazon already allows any publisher to select DRM or no DRM during the publishing process... it is a checkbox on a web form.

    2. Re:Amazon monopoly by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Like, duh, dude. Amazon don't give a crap about DRM, they only include it because the publishers demanded it.

      As others have mentioned, DRM is an option the publisher selects when they upload the book. They want to tie their book to your Kindle and then whine that readers keep buying books from Amazon because they're all tied to their Kindle.

      Just more proof that the publishing industry is run by monkeys.

    3. Re:Amazon monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But as a user it's impossible to identify which books are actually DRM free and which are not. So from the customers perspective all of Amazon still looks like a walled garden.

  16. Rockfax seems to have a good solution by slashbart · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I like the Rockfax solution for downloadable rockclimbing guides. You buy one for a few euros, and they generate the pdf on the fly, with 'registered to Bart van Deenen' in the footer of every page. Works for me.
    Bart

    1. Re:Rockfax seems to have a good solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's a "drivethrurpg" site that sells role-playing game guides and such that does the same thing.

      Pirates copy these files, diff them, and just remove the watermarking.and "registered to" lines.

    2. Re:Rockfax seems to have a good solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pirate RPG e-books have been on Usenet since the late '90s, before anyone was selling them as PDFs. People would scan, OCR, and post the books.

      Selling them as PDFs DRM-free at least gets you SOME digital sales, instead of ALL downloads being pirate. (A lot of these books are long out of print in paper.)

  17. Publishers don't know shit by Nyder · · Score: 1

    I've been downloading ebooks for years. No drm, no hassle. Sure, these books were OCR'd and have mistakes sometimes, but I don't care.

    Yet the publishers want DRM, want to charge the same prices for paper books, etc.

    Fuck you, you want my money? Do the shit right.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:Publishers don't know shit by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 2

      Sure, these books were OCR'd and have mistakes sometimes

      I'm currently reading a book from Amazon on Kindle that was obviously scanned in. There are mistakes such as "a//" instead of the word "all", missing spaces, etc. And this is a book from 2002.

  18. It won't happen soon because of Amazon by FreeUser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    e-books will not seriously take off until they are suitably cheap. Once they're like iOS "games", selling for $1-2, people will start to buy them when selling portals are integrated into the various ereaders.

    That won't happen for a very long time, book publishers are terrified of losing control of the entire distribution and "scarcity" control.

    That won't happen soon because of Amazon's pricing model. If you price a book for under $2.99, you only get 30% royalties (as opposed to 70% for $2.99 and greater if you organize your account right). If it were 70% all the way down, more authoris might be willing to price lower, but who wants to write a book just to give Amazon 70%?

    You might as well go with the old guard publishers in that case (well, not really, they pay even less, but still, at leat they'll give you an advance, and some distribution muscle.)

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:It won't happen soon because of Amazon by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      Quite a few people? Most books I've bought from Amazon to use on my tablet are $2.99 or below and they are some of the most popular titles available in their genres through Amazon.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    2. Re:It won't happen soon because of Amazon by phorm · · Score: 1

      So list your book for $2.99 instead of $1-2
      For a book, that's still well within "impulse-buy" range for many people.
      In fact, since I bought a kindle, I've found tons of books for under $5 (usually $2.99/$3.99), and that's well within impulse territory for me. A couple of them have been not great (not bad, but not great), and some have been excellent.
      For the books-in-series, I expected that the $3-4 book would have been cheap with the latter books in the series being the usual $9-10, but some authors publish their whole series at around the $4/book range. When I've read one good book by the author, I don't even blink before dropping what's less than the cost of a latte on others by the same author.

  19. DRM held me back from purchases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    DRM held me back from purchases. Books, music, videos, movies .... When I can use the electronic version "like a book on any current or future device I want", then they have a win.

    I'd like to loan out my "book" to a friend for a few weeks, or better, sell it to them in a 2nd hand market - you know - just like a book.

    We haven't purchased a DVD and do not own a Bluray player due to DRM. I don't think we will ever own a bluray player, at least as long as the DRM is not trivially cracked.

    We have never purchased eBooks that weren't DRM-free. I've taken pride in deleting those books when I've sold them to friends later. The backups took 90 days to be removed. I would be happy if my personal details were included in the pages of a purchased book to discourage piracy - full name, address, telephone number and email address(es).

    Our local library loans out eBooks, audio books, movies, etc., which is very nice. Our tax dollars at work.

    We have never purchased music that wasn't physical. Ripping a CD isn't a big deal to have it in a format that WE prefer, not something mandated by an outsider that limits the way we can use the content inside our homes.

    I've also read lots of free books from many different sources. Sometimes those are excellent, but I will admit that books going through publisher filters and edits are more enjoyable, if only due to the lack of typos.

    More and more, I enjoy free scifi podcasts with stories. These are entertaining and who doesn't like "free?"

    Convenience is why most people pay for content. Doing the "right thing" works for people with the money to do it too. I've felt that I needed to pay for content since college graduation. If I couldn't afford it, then I didn't need it. I honestly believe 90% of people in the USA feel that way, but I also know that in certain parts of the world, those views do not work. People will never pay for something they can get "for free." It is against their cultures.

  20. Recent DRM Headache by The_Doughboy · · Score: 1

    I recently purchased the novel Triggers on Kobo's website. On the book's page it listed both Smartphone and Kobo eReaders as compatible devices. Clicking on the Smartphone it shows Blackberry, clicking on Kobo eReaders it shows my 1st Gen Kobo eReader. So I purchase the book, the first book I had purchased in about a year. The book automatically shows up on my Blackberry but I can't open it. It shows up in my Kobo Desktop software where I can read it and when I plug in my eReader it says it has finished transferring it to my eReader but it isn't there after the sync. I ended up needing to use Adobe Digital Editions to transfer it over. This was kind of frustrating as there were scant instructions at all. And I was never able to read it on my Blackberry. (The Blackberry is from work)

  21. Introducing html markup! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    "IF DRM PREVENTS ME FROM TRANSFERRING FILES FROM AN OLD DEVICE TO A NEW ONE WITH NO FURTHER OUTLAY REQUIREMENT THEN I AM NOT INTERESTED."

    If DRM prevents me from transferring files from and old device to a new one without further outlay requirement then I am not interested!

    See the difference?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    1. Re:Introducing html markup! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is, you changed "an" to "and", introducing an error. Good going...

    2. Re:Introducing html markup! by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Capital letters are cross platform, though. ;)

    3. Re:Introducing html markup! by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure html is cross platform as well - hence the ability to browse the internet on all major platforms including Mobile devices. Maybe you mean cross-medium?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  22. It doesn't have to go by DrXym · · Score: 1
    It just has to be standardised. And standardised in a way that implements such concepts as fair use, doctrine of first sale and so on. Basically the whole concept of digital property needs to be defined and implemented by some framework so that when people buy an ebook they're actually buying a book rather than a licence to it.

    The book would still be protected by a key but the key could be revoked by one owner and transferred to another. I would still hold a copy of the book as a file but in the absence of the authorizing key it is no longer readable. If such a system were carefully designed it could enshrine concepts such as destroying content, lending it, renting it, selling it and donating it in much the same way as any physical item. Not just books, video, music and any other form of platform neutral data.

    I'm kind of surprised the EU isn't pressing for something like this. Ultraviolet demonstrates the industry can agree around some kind of cloud based key system and it needs governments to legislate that such a system should be fair to users as much as it is for providers.

    1. Re:It doesn't have to go by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Please show me the free standard for Ultraviolet, or even one that is not free but I can develop against. I want to make an ultraviolet player.

    2. Re:It doesn't have to go by DrXym · · Score: 1

      I really don't understand your point at all. I am not advocating Ultraviolet, I am advocating something which shares similar properties, i.e. cloud based storage but enshrines fair use for the consumer.

    3. Re:It doesn't have to go by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I merely mean your example of such a system is not a very good one. It does not offer what you seem to be suggesting, which is that a person can use their "digital property" when and where they like.

    4. Re:It doesn't have to go by DrXym · · Score: 1
      It's quite obvious that any DRM would require some form of device certification process to ensure that key exchange and all the rest was secure and keys were stored in a tamper resistant format so that people could not strip out the DRM from content or clone and resell books or any other exploit such a system could be vulnerable to. It would not prevent open source software from being developed to view it but the key management / decryption portion would probably have to be in hardware or a plugin which was not open source.

      But that's the price you'd have to pay if you wanted digital content to be treated like property with all the rights that go along with it. No DRM might sound attractive but there is no way in hell industry would go along with it. It also has disadvantages for end users, e.g. I can buy a DRM free book but it doesn't give me the legal right to sell it on. If a system enforced ownership through DRM then legally I could sell it on if I wished.

    5. Re:It doesn't have to go by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      A binary blob and a spec would be fine, hardware would not be.

  23. Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

    I've read a bunch of comments and there are two things that I keep seeing:

    1) "I hate DRM and I won't pay if there's DRM on a book! I'm definitely just going to download it!"
    2) "DRM is so easily cracked, anyway! Why do they think it's going to stop anyone?"

    Bonus:

    3) "With DRM, how will I move my books to a new platform?"

    We all know DRM is, at best, an inconvenience. I agree that it should be removed, and publishers should face up to the reality that people are willing to pay a fair price--even an inflated price, honestly--for a product as long as it's convenient. Piracy is only more appealing when it's easier than buying.

    But if you're using DRM as an excuse to not pay for the book, you're full of shit. Seriously.

    You should buy the book anyway and send an email to the company explaining why their system is counter-productive. Downloading books without paying shortchanges authors. These are the people that you're ostensibly trying to support.

    iTunes ended up DRM free because the middleman (Apple, obviously) was convinced by consumers that DRM wasn't necessary, and encouraged the labels to drop DRM as a requirement. It became obvious to everyone that people are happy to spend their money to support artists they enjoy. I'm sure there's still quite an active music trading scene, but there's money changing hands, too.

    Your positions on downloading and trading are inconsistent with your positions on supporting artists and convincing companies to remove DRM. You have to show them that the market is there and willing to pay (assuming they're not fleecing us) to convince them that DRM is unnecessary. In the meantime, you're just entrenching them further and making it harder for your favourite writers to do their work.

    Buy books. Pay for them. If you can, buy from a publisher that's already DRM free and thank them for their decision. If you can't, buy the book and remove the DRM afterwards if you like and stop falsely complaining that you can't device-shift your collection. Then get off your lazy ass and write the publisher and remind them that you ALREADY paid for the book and that you'd appreciate it if they considered changing their policy.

    1. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I am using DRM as an excuse to not buy, period. It is not an inconvenience, it is a show-stopper for any committed reader.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Roman+Grazhdan · · Score: 1

      Why would one need an excuse to download anything?

    3. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by NeverSuchBefore · · Score: 2

      But if you're using DRM as an excuse to not pay for the book, you're full of shit. Seriously.

      Are they? Consider this: a person doesn't want to support the people who make the product because they utilize DRM, but still wants the product. I'm not saying it's right, but what I am saying is that it's a very possible scenario.

      You should buy the book anyway and send an email to the company explaining why their system is counter-productive.

      What I'd suggest is: don't buy it at all, and tell them why you didn't. Don't download it, either, as that could provide them with free advertising.

      Then get off your lazy ass and write the publisher and remind them that you ALREADY paid for the book and that you'd appreciate it if they considered changing their policy.

      If you keep buying their products, there is far less of a chance that they'll learn their lesson. They'll change when their source of income is threatened.

    4. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      iTunes ended up DRM free because the middleman (Apple, obviously) was convinced by consumers that DRM wasn't necessary, and encouraged the labels to drop DRM as a requirement. It became obvious to everyone that people are happy to spend their money to support artists they enjoy. I'm sure there's still quite an active music trading scene, but there's money changing hands, too.

      iTunes ended up DRM free because the middleman (Apple, obviously) who had told the labels from the very start and again and again and again that DRM wasn't helping gave in to the labels' request for variable pricing (which in practice meant that all the good stuff became more expensive) to get the same DRM-free deal that the labels gave to Amazon for free.

    5. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      A show stopper? What, you download a DRMed title and are BLINDED with rage and can't read it? Or you just fall down in a whimpering heap? What in the world are you talking about?

      I've bought DRMed and un-DRMed books alike, and they all work fine. The only issue is getting the book to where I want it to be (which is, as I alluded to, so trivial as to be laughable). The reality is that a paper book's physicality is a more restrictive form of the work that you're reading than most DRM is. If I buy a book from Kobo, I have it on my desktop computer, both my Sony and Kobo eReaders, my iPad AND my iPhone. I practically can't get away from the book. If I forget my paper copy of a book at home, that's it. I don't get to read it until I get home.

      DRM is philosophically offensive because it's unnecessary and treats actual paying customers as bad people, whereas actual bad people aren't slowed down by it at all. But calling it more than an inconvenience is either a ridiculous overstatement or a fundamental issue with your sense of priority.

    6. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      I'm willing to concede the point that if you don't download the product as well as not buying it, then you're at least working inside a self-consistent system. My issue is with people that are downloading the book but using the DRM as the sole excuse for not paying for it, as if to teach the companies a lesson. I believe that it's an untenable and unhelpful position to take.

    7. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Are they? Consider this: a person doesn't want to support the people who make the product because they utilize DRM, but still wants the product. I'm not saying it's right, but what I am saying is that it's a very possible scenario.

      In that case, find an author, any author, near where you live, and send them some cash. If everyone who hates DRM would do that, a lot more books would be written. Or make a donation to the Red Cross or something similar.

    8. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, you download a DRMed title and are BLINDED with rage and can't read it?

      Or he might just not have managed to display it on any of his devices.

      I've once downloaded a free DRMed audio file (yes, it was free, they were trying to get me hooked to their shop). I still don't know if it was any good because I simply didn't manage to play it. It was the first and last time I've ever gotten any DRMed file, free or not. Needless to say that the shop didn't get me as customer.

    9. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you pay them, they have no motivation to change. They know you'll take it.

    10. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by s0nicfreak · · Score: 2

      I have bought DRMed books, and then wanted to let my children or husband read them - but I'm not going to buy it again, and I'm not going to let them take my ereader or computer. If the book is limited to just my desktop computer, they aren't going to be physically able to take the book anywhere. Though I just strip the DRM, to someone that doesn't know how to do that or is unwilling to do that, I can see how it would be a show stopper.

    11. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Skapare · · Score: 1

      We all know DRM is, at best, an inconvenience. I agree that it should be removed, and publishers should face up to the reality that people are willing to pay a fair price--even an inflated price, honestly--for a product as long as it's convenient. Piracy is only more appealing when it's easier than buying.

      If the publisher did not consider me (a Linux user) to be in their market (by making something directly usable in Linux), then they clearly do not expect a revenue from me. So why should I go out of my way to pay? Yes, I would pay if they want me to. But their actions indicate they do not care about me nor the market I am in. But there's some guy over in Russia that cares because he's making it available in Linux-ready form.

      But if you're using DRM as an excuse to not pay for the book, you're full of shit. Seriously.

      That's not it at all. Ask the publisher what their excuse is for not making it ready to use on Linux. See what kind of shitty answer you get from them. I don't care about them because they don't care about me. It's as simple as that.

      You should buy the book anyway and send an email to the company explaining why their system is counter-productive. Downloading books without paying shortchanges authors. These are the people that you're ostensibly trying to support.

      That provides no incentive at all for the publisher to correct the problem. But maybe what I should do is track down the author and send my payment (which would be more than the publisher pays) to him/her directly.

      iTunes ended up DRM free because the middleman (Apple, obviously) was convinced by consumers that DRM wasn't necessary, and encouraged the labels to drop DRM as a requirement. It became obvious to everyone that people are happy to spend their money to support artists they enjoy. I'm sure there's still quite an active music trading scene, but there's money changing hands, too.

      Take that up with the publishers. Until the publishers are at least trying to care about the little market niches like Linux users, why should we care about them?

      Your positions on downloading and trading are inconsistent with your positions on supporting artists and convincing companies to remove DRM. You have to show them that the market is there and willing to pay (assuming they're not fleecing us) to convince them that DRM is unnecessary. In the meantime, you're just entrenching them further and making it harder for your favourite writers to do their work.

      If they are getting revenues from the market they clearly do not yet care about, how is making an extra effort to pay them, in addition to doing the downloading from the internet, going to encourage them? What they need is to realize that they won't get the revenues from markets they don't make things for. That is how Harvard MBAs and all other kinds of business people think.

      Buy books. Pay for them. If you can, buy from a publisher that's already DRM free and thank them for their decision. If you can't, buy the book and remove the DRM afterwards if you like and stop falsely complaining that you can't device-shift your collection. Then get off your lazy ass and write the publisher and remind them that you ALREADY paid for the book and that you'd appreciate it if they considered changing their policy.

      I'm find with buying from non-DRM publishers. For example, I have a lifetime membership to Magnatune for music. It's the ones that don't have a clue that I have an issue with. Now maybe if you were suggesting to write them a letter for each download I do because they aren't making things for my market, then maybe I might think about that. But I don't give a damn about the publisher. I do care about the actual author, artist, composer, musician, etc.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    12. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by sohmc · · Score: 1

      I think what gweihir is trying to say is that if he sees a candy bar that's behind a locked glass and the same candy bar in an open tray, he'll take the candy bar in an open tray.

      I do agree with what you said, however. If you hate DRM so much that you pirate, then you are ultimately contributing to the problem. But there are a quiet few, like myself and I suppose many on /., that given a choice, they would forgo buying a digital copy with DRM and even not buy anything at all. The store may not have lost a customer, but they did lose a sale.

      If you're going to pirate, at least be honest about it. Don't disguise your cheapness with mock anger. But I'll admit to being frustrated by DRM sometimes to the point that I will do exactly what you suggest: buy a legal version then download a DRM-free version and register my complaint with the appropriate people.

      DRM is a show-stopper for me too. If something I intend to buy has DRM, I won't buy it. I can do that because most things with DRM are things I don't NEED. Yes, it will still work on current devices. Yes to all the reasons you said. But it's my money and I get to decide how I spend it. If I don't want to buy beer from store X because they experiment on animals, that's my business. I can buy beer somewhere else or not buy it at all, regardless of how delicious it may be.

      --
      We don't live in Shouldland.
    13. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Andtalath · · Score: 1

      I don't buy stuff which has annoying restrictions.
      Neither do I download them.

      Even if I would've otherwise.

    14. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gweihir · · Score: 1

      A "show-stopper" is a defect serious enough that the original action is terminated. It just means I will not buy DRMed books ever because it is a fundamental technological flaw. This is not a philosophical issue for me at all. Maybe I just understand better what DRM means than you do. In any case, what I consider a show-stopper when I spend my money is my decision, not yours.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    15. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I though I was pretty clear that I will do without DRMed content. Apparently not. So to be clear:

      I will not buy DRMed content. I will not download it in cracked form either. If you DRM your stuff, then I stop caring about it.

      Why are DRM advocates always assume DRMed content is so great that nobody can do without it?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You should buy the book anyway and send an email to the company explaining why their system is counter-productive. Downloading books without paying shortchanges authors. These are the people that you're ostensibly trying to support.

      Companies don't read email, they read sales reports. If you buy the book with DRM, what incentive do they have to stop selling books with DRM?

    17. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      It's not a fundamental technological flaw any more than a passcode on an iPhone is a fundamental technological flaw; your assertion is absurd at best. I've yet to download an eBook that didn't work, DRMed or not. If it were a *fundamental* flaw, it would simply never work. You might say that DRM itself is fundamentally flawed in that it is doomed to always be cracked by people with some time and interest, but if you buy a Kindle book, it works on your Kindle. It pre-supposes that you own the technology to read the book, but so does any un-DRMed book. The layer of DRM is not actually noticeable to someone that has met the prior conditions for ownership. And if you strip the DRM from an eBook, it still works. There's nothing 'fundamental' at question here.

      The question with DRM in eBooks is whether you should be required to own as many pieces of technology as they seem to want you to. If you want a book from the Kindle store, should you need to own a Kindle? (Leaving aside that there's a kindle app for the iPhone and a reader for the desktop, I believe.)

    18. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      I'm not a DRM advocate; I don't think anyone here is. What I'm not an advocate of is people rejecting the fundamental responsibility of paying for works that they consume. If you don't download DRMed files from the publisher/store, and don't go out after and find the book stripped of DRM and download it later, I have no complaint with you. Maybe I should have made it more clear that I'm irritated with the people that feel that the limited inconvenience of DRM is blanket permission to avoid paying for goods as some sort of protest.

      I pay for the content I consume when I can. Excuses to not pay for what you consume are just that: excuses.

    19. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      I agree that you shouldn't pirate the book using DRM as an excuse, but...

      You should buy the book anyway and send an email to the company explaining why their system is counter-productive.

      ...as long as you buy the book, your email will go straight in the trash. No: the correct protest action is that you should go without the book and deprive the publisher of the sale.

      If you can't, buy the book and remove the DRM afterwards if you like and stop falsely complaining that you can't device-shift your collection.

      Except that by doing that you have almost certainly breached the publisher's EULA and - at least from their point of view (whatever your local DMCA and fair use laws say) - are just as evil as someone who downloaded a pirate copy.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    20. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Your language is broken: Content cannot be "consumed", it can just be copied.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    21. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      Yes, more irrelevant pedantry will solve the problem.

      'Consumption' has been used colloquially in this manner for years. Much in the same way someone can 'devour' a book...without eating it! Gracious!

      Consumers of books also do not 'consume' the books, per se. Nor would they 'consume' an iPad or a sock. And those material goods are also capable of being passed on to another person afterwards after their useful lives have been met by the original owner; in this case, 'content' isn't special in sense that it can be passed on.

      I know what you mean--data isn't being destroyed or removed from the system--but again, this is needlessly pedantic and not meaningful to the discussion at hand.

    22. Re:Stop using DRM as an excuse to not pay by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      I've mentioned it a few times at this point, but I agree that I wasn't clear. That IS the most correct action. My complaint rests with people that download the DRM stripped book and feel that it's somehow 'their right' to have a copy of it because the DRM was 'so inconvenient'. If you can't abide the DRM, then you shouldn't have the product in any way, shape or form. Don't go out of your way to find excuses to not pay a content creator for their work.

  24. DRM free and working fine - Baen Publishing by michaeldgale · · Score: 1

    Baen Publishing has been DRM free for its ebooks for more than a decade. And even gives some books away free via the Baen Free Library. Here are Eric Flint's arguments for that model from 2000: http://www.baen.com/library/intro.asp DRM free texts from Baen have encouraged me to try authors I may not have otherwise and Flint, Ringo and Weber are all authors whose hard back books I've purchased after I've started reading a series via their ebooks. In fact, in the case of those 3 authors I tend to own both the physical & ebook version of each of thier books. I refuse to purchase either Apple or Amazon players/readers because I want to own the books and music I purchase, not pay for just a license to use as long as those corporations maintain servers to authorize my access. I have moved my ebook purchases from Baen across 5 personal computers running different versions of Windows & Linux, across 3 different portable reading platforms Palm Vx, Windows mobile & now Android.

    1. Re:DRM free and working fine - Baen Publishing by compro01 · · Score: 1

      Eric has quite a bit more to say on the subject than just that little foreword. His bimonthly column at Jim Baen's Universe discussed this and related issues in fair detail over the year it ran for.

      http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2011/09/26/salvos-against-big-brother/

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    2. Re:DRM free and working fine - Baen Publishing by zeugma-amp · · Score: 2

      Your comments about Baen Publishing were very similar to what I was going to say, however I'd also like to point out that Baen also includes CD-ROM disks in some of their novels as well. For instance, I bought one of the 1632 novels in hardback. (The Baltic War I think), and it contained a CD that had the entire series on it. Printed right there on the label it said that you are free to copy and distribute the disk as long as you don't charge for it. Baen rocks, and really gets it. I've picked up several of these disks when I've purchased the hardbacks and have actually made a disk of my own that I keep as an archive of all their stuff. I can't tell you how many people I've introduced to a couple of their series' because all I have to do is point to their website and folks can download the first couple of books of a series and see if they like it.

      I know for a fact that because they do not treat their customers as potential thieves, they have made sales they would not otherwise made.

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
  25. Are people going back to physical books? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    I am seeing it happening. But I don't know if it's very widespread.

    1. Re:Are people going back to physical books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Going back? Some of us never left.

    2. Re:Are people going back to physical books? by chrismcb · · Score: 1
      Physical books have some advantages:
      • Can be read without power
      • Can be read during takeoff and landing on an airplane
      • Can be resold or donated or given away

      They have some disadvantages:

      • Chew up some dead trees
      • Large and bulky, hard to travel with

      But for me the advantages outweigh disadvantages. BUT I still refuse to pay more for an ebook. I'd rather pay the physical book. But I don't do that, instead I purchase indie books, or read classics

  26. Not Quite There Yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like this one http://www.baen.com/library/ ?

    That seems to be some sort of mix. First book that caught my attention I can't even buy let alone read online ... The possible free books appear to be a very small subset and the books that are listed as "Baen Books" are closer to what I'm talking about but the selection is small and the topic is very narrow (sci-fi fantasy?).

    Thanks for demonstrating goodwill in this exact situation to counter the OP's "seriously?" comment.

    There's only ever been a few cases I've found out of hundreds where music has been discontinued on Bandcamp and the one instance I know of is a French band Malajube ... even bands like fun. that "graduate" to big labels keep their first releases up on Bandcamp.

    1. Re:Not Quite There Yet by compro01 · · Score: 1

      You mean like this one http://www.baen.com/library/ ?

      That seems to be some sort of mix. First book that caught my attention I can't even buy let alone read online ... The possible free books appear to be a very small subset and the books that are listed as "Baen Books" are closer to what I'm talking about but the selection is small and the topic is very narrow (sci-fi fantasy?).

      Rainbow's End isn't published by Baen, it's published by Tor Books. I'm presuming some sort of agreement between the companies came apart resulting in the book being made unavailable (Though Tor does ebooks and have stated they're going DRM-free starting this year). Not sure why they'd leave it listed though.

      Baen isn't exactly a huge publisher. They have about 40 or so authors.

      Also, sci-fi/fantasy is all they do.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  27. Or there's a new platform / OS. by earls · · Score: 1

    You assume that Amazon is committed to developing a version of their "reader" that is compatible with future devices, operating systems, etc.

    I'm not suggesting there is any problem nor definitely will be any problem, only that the potential most definitely does exist.

    1. Re:Or there's a new platform / OS. by brainzach · · Score: 1

      Amazon is committed to developing for future devices so they can sell more books in the future.

      The only way Amazon decides to stop developing it's Kindle reader if they decide to get out of the book business.

  28. Yar har fiddle di dee by caffemacchiavelli · · Score: 2

    I wouldn't care that much if DRM allowed me to actually use the files I purchased.

    As an ex-member of Audible, in order to actually listen the books I bought, I'd have to get an mp3 converter, get it to accept the codec I pieced together from Audible's software, which then would change every few months, rendering the old "hack" useless. Now I just pirate everything and save myself a few hours of work.
    I'm not that much into piracy and I wouldn't mind paying $15 for the privilege of having someone read a book to me, but going through all the hassle just so I can open the files on the OS I want in the player I want doesn't sound like a worthy investment of time.

    Same principle applies to ebooks. When I want to re-read the tome on corporate marketing I bought seven years ago, I head over to the study and pick it up. If I buy an e-reader with its own proprietary format now, will I still be able to read the book after a decade has passed? I'm not too sure, I kinda envision myself browsing the web for a kindle-to-google-glasses-converter.

    1. Re:Yar har fiddle di dee by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      ? As an 'ex-member' of Audible, I still download books I bought way back in 2000 and listen to them on my iPhone.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  29. Re: Butcher's pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had the same issue. Book one is $10 on amazon. Paperback is $6. Used is 40 cents. Why the hell would I pay $10 for a 12 year old book, than I can't loan to a friend when I'm done. It's pricing models like this that drive people to just download it.

  30. Tricky bit for authors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For musicians, I feel that downloaded music should be free (as in beer). Why? Because performers should earn their money from PERFORMING, not some artificial product that can now be gotten for free.

    Same argument for movies. The valuable product they sell is the movie theater experience. But the downloads should be free.

    But for authors? That's tough. What is their valuable product? The words on the page are their sole item, and if those can be had for free, then the only real way authors will be paid (long term) is a patronage model? Voluntary payment? Neither one is much good for the bulk of authors.
    So does that mean authors will be a dying breed? Possibly, and quite possibly a good amount of literature won't be written as a result.

    1. Re:Tricky bit for authors by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of new "literature" is crap. We are not losing a great deal if there is no longer money in it. Artists have been starving for generations before and after monopoly rights yet we still have a large number of artists. Many make their livings being hired to CREATE (work for a living) and not from past efforts.

      It is not the government's job to prop up old defunct business models; laws and constitutions are designed to be adapted to the times.

    2. Re:Tricky bit for authors by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that movie theater experience. I just love squishy greasy buttered floors, and crying babies, and the couple in front of me making out. And the cost of gas to drive to the theater.

      Not!

      I have DVDs shipped, but have been thinking that even that has a carbon footprint on the environment. So I'm looking at doing downloads. I'm sure there is someone out there that has converted movies so they are ready to play on Linux.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  31. Amazon doesn't put on DRM. by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

    Publishers selling on Amazon can decide to add DRM or not. There are many ebooks on Amazon without DRM. Those books are easily converted to other formats if you don't like using Amazon's software to view them.

  32. This is a Marketing matter and pricing by lordmage · · Score: 1

    DRM exists because the costs of the ebooks are outrageous and people know this.

    I dont buy Hardbacks because I can wait a half year or more for the paperbacks. They have moved to 10.99 or so now for some large Paperback books and the ISBN number actually had the price in it. So, then I would go to used book stores and buy the books sometimes 3 to a dollar, etc.

    But lets talk first purchase here. Cost for ebook delivery? minimal. Someone tell me how its more than .25 cents and explain it. So delivery costs is gone, so its basically labor + editing + idea + profit margin (name recognition). So then lets go with a good 1.99 cost and sell 100,000 copies of a book is 174 gross per book.

    There is a reason why books are 24.99 on Apple or Amazon? pure and simple: It forces them to do DRM and whine and bitch and claim author X's book did not sell because of piracy instead that it sucked.

    I have literally hundreds of paperbacks (more like over a thousand) in ziploc bags in my garage that I was planing on using for retirement. You know, the old Bookstore by the beach. Well thats a shot deal, so... do I trash them, scan them in, re-get the ebook, or just keep them stored until electricity runs out for someone to find and claim they are the Coptic scrolls of our day.

    --
    I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!
    1. Re:This is a Marketing matter and pricing by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      There is a reason why books are 24.99 on Apple or Amazon?

      There's a particularly stupid reason in the UK (and most of the EU?) - paper books are exempt from VAT (sales tax) but ebook prices include VAT at 20%. So even though the net price of ebooks is lower than paper books the actual price still ends up the same or higher.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    2. Re:This is a Marketing matter and pricing by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      DRM exists because the costs of the ebooks are outrageous and people know this.

      DRM doesn't exist because of the cost of ebooks. It exists to prevent piracy. "DRM" or copy protection has always existed to prevent piracy. But all it really does is piss of the people who paid for the product.

    3. Re:This is a Marketing matter and pricing by lordmage · · Score: 1

      Sound right? but I would disagree. If the costs were in line, DRM would not be needed. DRM cannot PREVENT piracy all it does is give a warm and fuzzy.... but as Chris Farley said in Tommy Boy a warranty does not mean you are not buying a piece of crap.

      --
      I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!
  33. GOG by hort_wort · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just wanted to give a nod to GOG.com and point them out as an example. They sell games that are only DRM-free, and they seem to be doing just fine. I've been one of their customers since they started a few years ago, and I've only seen them grow. I haven't heard anything about their games being stolen and redistributed. I see no reason why it'd be different for (reasonably priced) ebooks.

    1. Re:GOG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am pretty sure they spruce themselves by putting up their own torrents too

    2. Re:GOG by rochrist · · Score: 1

      That's because their games are so old, they're practically worthless.

    3. Re:GOG by hort_wort · · Score: 1

      They have a few new ones like Witcher 2. I tried to look up some numbers on this, but it looks like it might be the most pirated game so far: 1M legitimate sales to 4.5M downloads. It'll probably be downloaded even more now that they remastered it. Hrmmmm so maybe the DRM is doing the job afterall. I *hate* finding evidence to the contrary of something I just said. :(
      -bows head in shame-

  34. Aren't his books covered by DRM? by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1

    Since almost all major publishers use DRM, it's a fair bet they are. Yet they are pirated. How would removing the DRM make any fucking difference?

  35. Great use for old iPod Touch... by wikthemighty · · Score: 1

    Our 3-year-old happily sits watching Dora & other shows in the back seat with my old iPod Touch on longer car rides. Same thing will probably happen with our iPad after it gets replaced. Plenty of room for video, durable, and the battery life is better than any portable DVD player. Back to Dora - the first handful of DVDs were worth their weight in gold, but per-episode cost way more than buying sets off of iTunes, and while the discs auto-play, they also auto-play all the ads (whether you want to or not - Disney gave up this practice, I wish Nickelodeon would...) If she's happy watching on our iPad, Mom & Dad can watch whatever we want on the big screen TV. :) If not, they're all dumped in iTunes and streamable by our Rokus.

    --
    "There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
    1. Re:Great use for old iPod Touch... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      DVDs are easy to rip even for a dedicated Apple user.

      DRM free files can be played anywhere, including a 500G equivalent of an iPod touch sold by someone other than Apple.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  36. so what? by Chirs · · Score: 1

    Allcaps works fine for emphasis as far as I'm concerned. It's a webforum...manual markup is so last decade. If you want people to use formatting, give us a WYSIWYG edit box.

    1. Re:so what? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So let me see if I get this straight. Are you saying that ALL CAPS is newer, or were you saying that you prefer approaches that are so last three decades ago to those that started last decade and are still pervasive and evolving in 2012?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    2. Re:so what? by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. Thanks, Chirs: I'm not a coder, I don't "do" markup until I'm ready to typeset (for which I use a WYSIWIG platform such as OpenOffice), and that doesn't happen on a forum. Allcapping might be older than time but it is universally recognised as a form of emphasis. Those who complain, I have a message for you: I think you should get a life, or sit down and code up a WYSIWYG edit box for /. to make life more convenient for *you*.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  37. Re: Butcher's pricing by foamrat · · Score: 1

    Not only that, but look at the collections. Books 1-6 are sold as a collection and priced at $59.99. That's still $10 per book. If that price were lowered, the number of people pirating his stuff would be reduced.

  38. And quick by teevoh · · Score: 1

    Until ebooks match emusic I'll be sitting on the sidelines. All my music I can keep the cd's or put them on my digital player of choice. I don't even have to prove I own it. Head to the library and rip a cd, borrow from a friend, record it myself. Until I'm allowed to easily put a book I possess on an ebook reader, I'm not buying one. Scan a barcode, take a picture of the dust jacket, or whatever gets decided to prove I have a copy in my possession and lets me get the digital version.

  39. ya, they are listening by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    And planning to make it even harder to deal with and more lock-in to their 'store'.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  40. Here's how to do that, since I just did so by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 1
    Since I just switched from Kindle to Nook due to quality issues and a complete lack of customer service, I had the (dis)pleasure of researching how to do this for my 50+ titles theoretically locked in to Amazon.

    How to crack Amazon DRM

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
  41. Re: Butcher's pricing by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    I recently wanted to read Stephen King's first novel. Published some 40 odd years ago. I'm sure the proofreading and the marketing and the layout have all been bought and paid for. Ebook price? $7.99.
    End result, I opted to pick up some free classics (and a couple of cheaper indies)

  42. I want my Netflix for books! by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    Just sayin'. I'd even sign up for Amazon Prime, if they'd realize that I can read more than one book a month. BTW, MY books are sold without DRM. Has anyone pirated a copy?

  43. Go talk to the steamers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There they insist that they buy games REALLY CHEAP. I.e. $100 for about 30-40 titles.

    Yet, AT THE SAME TIME, they will show that they have a title range of hundreds of Steam games as PROOF that Steam helps sales.