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Wozniak Praises 'Beautiful' Windows Phone
judgecorp writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has praised the user interface of Microsoft's Windows Phone, saying that aspects of its user interface are more 'beautiful' than comparable sides to the iPhone. The comments, in a New Domain, follow on from a comment by Forrester boss George Colony who blogged that Apple would decline in the post-Jobs era. Both pieces have kicked off the kind of online argument you would expect."
Apple's co-founder Steve Wozniak isn't alone with this opinion. It's been one of the most common opinions of WP7 phone users. It's true, too. Windows Phone 7 UI is beautiful and even better than iPhone's, not to mention Android. Microsoft really outdid themselves with that. Where MS has failed is to get good partners to actually make the devices as Google has tricked their way in with Android. However, that is about to change now that Nokia will be putting out quality WP7 smart phones. I know I will be getting one soon. The platform has been growing intensely lately, especially on app and developers front. C# and Visual Studio are great for developing for WP7.
...because if it was a Microsoft phone this would look bad.
"Microosft's"
Proofread much?
"Both pieces have kicked off the kind of online argument you would expect"... I expect the kind that has all the /. trolls and shills locked in I-wish-it-was-mortal combat for the next, say 12 hours.
Too bad they both suck, Maemo 4evah!!
/me's work here is done...
Probably some Anti-Apple shill.
So what if Woz praised something a competitor produced? He's entitled to his own opinion, negative or positive, and it says nothing about the state of Apple. Is Apple going to decline without Jobs? Who know, but Woz having an opinion is hardly a sign one way or the other. The only thing it does is dispell any notion that he's an arrogant prat who couldn't possible even deign to glance at a competitor's product without vomiting.
Maybe this sort of thing gets to me too much, but I'm really fed up of this "you must be 100% for whichever brand-tribe you join!" guff. If he liked bits of another product then so what, that's competition for you.
Its not surprising that Wozniak stuck to tech rather than going into management. He gives his honest opinion, saying what he believes to be true. There is no place for this sort of thing in the boardroom.
The UI may be great and the development environment good, but Microsoft, in a misguided attempt to lock developers to the platform (that only works when you have them to begin with), made it impossible to use c++ and OpenGL on them meaning every part of an Android or iOS game/app has to be rewritten to work on Windows Phone 7.
When you make it too hard, developers will stick with the platforms where the customers are; Android and iOS
(Posting AC because I'm at work and I don't log in from work)
I love Woz as much as the next geek (and I'm an Apple geek so I love him even more) but he is not a good judge of the market's desires. That's what made the Woz/Jobs partnership so successful. Woz was the hardware geek who loved to tinker with the guts of a machine and play with it and Jobs was the marketing genius who knew how to direct that passion into making a highly marketable product. Woz is brilliant but he likes to get to the guts of a machine. That is about as far from what "the market" wants as possible.
I'm not saying he's wrong - I haven't played with a WP7 phone at all so I have no personal experience with one - but I think people need to remember who's making the comments and what his passion is.
Are you still shilling for your MS overlords?
The one Windows Phone evangelist who claimed the current devices would be upgradable, quickly walked those statements back.
Source here .
If you buy one of these "beta test" phones, you will soon be stuck in a multi-year contract with a device that will not be upgradable to the current version of the OS. There is nothing beautiful about that. Do not buy before Win Phone 8 is released!
Wozniak is a nerd's nerd. He isn't the general public, and what woz thinks is awesome is not likely to be what Joe average wants to use. That is not meant to be an insult by the way, the man is a genius. But he's a technical genius and not a genius with regards to what people want (that was Jobs).
I'd say that getting a glowing review by wozniak is just as likely to be the kiss of death as it is to be the harbinger of iphone doom...
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
When MS bought out the Chevron utility and built it as an option, it made the platform attractive -- no worrying about rooting or jailbreaking. A recent XDA article showed that that functionality is going away soon.
I wish it weren't the case, but I am tired of locked down platforms, and find Android the one that sucks the least. For example, if I want to block calls/texts with iOS [1], i'm forced to jailbreak. At least with Android, I can use Mr. Number or a root-level blacklist and be done with it.
What would be ideal would be a system similar to the one used for unlocking Nexus phone bootloaders -- an obstacle that will make Joe Sixpack go "hmm, maybe I shouldn't do this", but for someone who knows their stuff, would be trivial. That way, people who don't know what they are doing are protected by the phone's security and the gatekeeper at the app store, while people who are more interested in customization can do what they want.
[1]: Yes, there are apps that supposedly do blocking, but a lot of them do nothing except create a new contact entry with [Blocked] in it.
George Colony who blogged that Apple would decline in the post-Jobs era.
Since day one of the Macintosh, or you might say day one of the IBM PC, people have been predicting the demise of Apple. With every new model and every new OS, legions of entrenched industry analysts stood up and said with certainty..."whoa, this may be the end of Apple".
I guess if they just keep saying that, one day it will be true and they can pat themselves on the back for being so prescient.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I understand that none of the current phones can be upgraded to WP8 when it is released.
If this is true then what is the point of anyone buying any of the current phones at the moment?
If Microsoft were really, really serious about phones then they wouldn't restrict their hardware like they seem to want to do.
Even Apple with its Walled Garden upgrade two year old phones to the latest version of IOS.
One word "Ugly".
Color scheme is right out of Hot Dog On a Stick. Icons look like my 3 year old drew them. If that is what is facing me every time I use my phone I think I'd be sick.
Granted Apple's icons are more polished, but the usability of iOS leaves much to be desired, they really need to redesign the flow and usability. Same with Android.
I'm not sure anyone is doing it right so far. HP WebOS was starting to look and feel promising, but we all know how that worked out.
Oh well, I'll just deal with these cruddy UI's until these companies actually do some usability studies before releasing garbage.
the shit by posting this article. What are you a sophomore high school tabloid? Why, yes. As a matter of fact you are.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
people seem to have forgotten the old days, which may well be back now that Jobs is gone -- " Apple computer, proudly going out of business since 1977 "
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
What's left unsaid is often as important as that which was uttered aloud. Windows Phone being the most beatiful, and iOS having the most apps leaves Android not being special in any significant way, which I think Woz was aiming at, all along.
I still think Harmattan is the fairest of them all.
Just because Woz originally helped found Apple Computer in the 70's doesn't mean he's a shill for Apple 30 years later, long after having worked as one of their employees, and after the company changed names (simply "Apple" today -- with the "Computer" part purposely deleted).
I really do think the man speaks honestly about technology he uses, no matter which vendor it comes from. He often likes Apple's products, and when he does, he'll tell you so. But the media seems to assume he's "supposed to be saying that" and jumps to conclusions whenever he says something good about a competing product instead.
As a big fan of the iPhone myself, I'd agree with Woz about Windows Phone 7 too. It *does* have a refreshing and attractive-looking UI to it -- something I'm doubly impressed came out of Microsoft, after their LONG standing belief that everything they designed should have a START button in the corner. (Even their embedded systems for such things as vehicle navigation systems still required developers to purposely code the software to completely hide the OS's UI underneath, because nobody wanted a touchscreen in their car or truck to look like it was just another PC running a version of Windows, with icons to double-click.)
He's not an Apple fanboy. He just likes good technology regardless of who makes it.
--
The mill's closed. There's no more work. We're destitute. I've got no option but to sell you all for scientific experiments.
It really doesn't matter how good (or not) Windows phone are:
1. The intersection of MS fanboys and people with widespread credibility is exactly 0.
2. Nobody (apart from MS employees and shareholders) wants it to succeed. - Most people who care about tech gear want MS products to fail so the company will die and be replaced by several other, better companies.
3. We all want competition, good products, and good value, but nobody associates any of those things with microsoft. We all reasonably expect competitors products to be at least as good and better value.
4. We'll happily take an apple/google duopoly over another MS monopoly anyday.
So unless the phones are both outstanding compared to the competition, and much better value, nobody is going to care about them. This seems unlikely.
If MS wants people to care about it's brands and products, it needs to split itself up into it's various divisions. Smaller, independent businesses would be forced to compete and innovate instead of relying on marketing and monopoly to ensure success. If WP7 became a genuine underdog, it might actually get some credible supporters. But since this won't ever happen, it will simply die a long, painful and expensive death. So props to MS on the strategy so far.
Until people start getting a BSOD while calling 911.
In 48 months there will be a Steve Jobs hologram.
So, do you work for /. or do you pay them for them to post your story submissions?
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
This is the kind of online argument I'd expect: ... you're a stinky poopy-face!
A: This is a superior product, because XYZ.
B: But it's inferior because other products have KLM, which is better than XYZ.
A: Whaddaya mean, XYZ rocks, KLM sucks!
B: Your product sucks!
A: Well, yeah
B: I'm not, but yo momma is!
A: B is totally like Hitler!
I am officially gone from
He gives his honest opinion, saying what he believes to be true. There is no place for this sort of thing in the boardroom.
Actually this sort of thing is perfect for the boardroom, and it is something a person with the heart and soul of a salesman is likely to say at that level. The difference is that such a person would not say such a thing in public, only the privacy of the boardroom.
There are plenty of dysfunctional board members but not all are so. This is exactly the reason you have expert who are not competitors on your board.
Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave!
I purchased a Lumia 900 on 4/8. Previous phones include Nokia N900 (still "running" MeeGo...) and HTC G2. So far the Lumia experience has been good. Pros: - Fluid, smooth and intuitive UI - Majority of everyday apps I use are native MS/Nokia, or good quality 3rd party (UC Browser, Nav, Google Voice, social networking, email, music player) - Excellent Nokia Drive navigation, probably best nav app I've used. Very quick GPS lock, nice UI while driving, good voice navigation - Good battery life. 16 hours of moderate/heavy use (not always on LTE though), with still juice left. - For me the home screen tiles work. IMO they are a nice compromise between an icon and widget, obviously this boils down to preference. Then again, if you load up your home screen with tiles, you've effectively made your home screen an app menu, just with super large icons... - Display works well in daylight - VKB is ok. Pretty quick swapping from portrait to landscape mode, but like with any touch keys, nothing beats the real keyboard. Pleased to find my native language as a quick switch option while typing. - LTE speeds so far have been good (7-8 mbps download in West L.A.; good/great 4G-speeds in Miami) - "Multitasking". Obviously nowhere near what the N900 offered, but in my daily use I find it similar to Android. - Last but not least, though this one seems to be an ignored feature of a modern smartphone: fantastic call quality -- mind you this on AT&T's famously shitty network. Cons: - Browser options (for now): IE9 is ok, not great, but I'd like to see Firefox and Opera Mobile as options. UC Browser as an IE9 variant offers some welcomed tweaks. - App menu: minor gripe in my use, but if you load your device with apps, the single file scrolling can become a real nuisance. Not that I found Android's App Drawer with 4-5 pages (or a cube/wheel/cylinder...) that much better. I use the KISS principle, worked on Android, works on WP7. - Battery (no percentage) and time displayed only on main screen, not when in app menu. - Display: while it works well outdoors, the screen res. does show its numbers, especially while browsing. Pixellation is apparent on the browser while zoomed out, after you pinch zoom in the text/font looks ok -- for some reason I'd think this would be the other way around. - Camera: Not bad, but not excellent either. It seems like my N900 takes as good pictures as Lumia 900, though this is subjective as I am not a photo-pro. So, the cam is a minor disappointment. - Integration with Zune. Only reason I've used Zune was to do a firmware upgrade. But, signing up with Microsoft/Apple, you kinda know that this is the shit you have to put up with. - Lack of specific apps. I haven't found an app yet that I couldn't live without -- i.e. I've modified my phone usage, like I had to do with the N900 -- but Android app market makes life much more fun if you have the time and energy to read about, test, and install/uninstall apps. - The non-upgradeability to WP8. This one's going to bring some suckage. Though I have to admit, I wasn't even thinking about it when I bought the Lumia 900 (ok, so I got a refund for the purchase price, thanks Nokia!). So I guess I shouldn't complain after all. And it's not like my 2-yr old G2 was getting any love from HTC/T-Mo (ICS Beta on it, ran like, a beta...). I have no idea how the app devel process varies between WP7, Android and iOS, but from an enduser, albeit not a superuser, experience, IMO Lumia 900 works well. I've dumbed down my device requirements, but so far I'm liking it. When I want to dig into an OS, I'll just continue tweaking my Arch with OpenBox :)
Don't allow posts from accounts less than a year old to appear as first post. Hold them in queue until a few dozen posts have been made. You could also slow them down a bit by requiring two mod-ups to raise their score one point.
AFAIK they already don't allow brand spankin' new accounts to moderate. The real challenge is dealing with established accounts that don't 'turf; but moderate up the turfers. It could be a political issue if you simply LART them.
I hypothesize that if a user's up-mods all go towards new accounts, that user is likely a shill. They certainly have a strange bias. There's not much reason to skew your mods towards new accounts. Yeah, sympathy for high ID numbers; wanting to make new users feel good; but that's not really productive. We can do without that.
There's still nothing to stop a determined bunch of 'turfers from gaining access. You should make them work for it though.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
... because Wozniak also stated that hos most preferred phone is still the iPhone. Does that mean that the iPhone is dying anytime soon, or does your selective logic apply only to Windows Phone?
I haven't tried a new Windows phone yet but I've seen videos of the Metro interface, which will showcase in the Windows 8 desktop/laptop operating system. I think its ugly and unimpressive but that's my opinion. I don't see why Woz is ecstatic about it.
"I also surmised that Steve Jobs might have been reincarnated at MS (Microsoft)" Classic! :) What if??? A new meme is born! http://memegenerator.net/Reincarnated-Microsoft-Employee-Steve-Jobs
My good friend who's a diehard Apple user had an upgrade come up, and basically got paid to get Lumia due to the recent $100 thing. He's absolutely in love with it. TMS may have a winner on their hands.
Hey, I agree that the UI looks ok on a phone (it's not what I prefer but I understand the draw). However, MSFT is hedging its bets on that UI being on their desktop too.
I'm sorry but it sucks on the desktop and while they may have made a great choice for the mobile devices of the world, they fucked up royally on desktops.
Considering the posts have the same time stamp as the story it is obvious that /. is complicit in this and therefor unlikely to implement any changes.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Much more accurate
As a shareholder, I demand to see the MSFT deal announced, and/or for it to appear as a line item on the balance sheet. I should be getting paid (indirecty) for this too.
Well, Stallman would be hard pushed to comment on this seeing as he point blank refuses to have a mobile phone, believing them to be tracking devices. Which I suppose they are.
Because the DEVELOPER experience is TERRIBLE, No access to bluetooth, no side loading, no db storage, no this no that...
Ever wonder why there is hardly any apps for WP? That is why. No developer story worth talking about...
Everybody is going Droid because you can access everything. Field service/embedded/wearable apps are done with Android and iOS, not WP for a reason. Droid is open, WP is crippled.
Bye bye WP. I know because I faced exactly this problem and had to recommend Android for a company, they had a choice forced onto them by Microsoft. Balmer loses yet again in the mobile space for another 5 years, they are at least 3 years behind the competition with regards to developer adoption.
Is Woz losing it? Going on "Life on the D List" and then "Dancing with the Stars". Not sure I trust the judgement here anymore. Still the Apple I and II were great computers and great accomplishments.
Woz was the hardware guru who created the original Apple computers; Jobs was the marketing guy who got them in people's hands.
But as a true "geek", Woz has the decency to respect his competition, and no shame in giving them praise when it's due.
It's a shame so-called "businessmen" couldn't be as generous in their dealings with the competition.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
C++ and OpenGL ES are respectively the most used language and graphics API for development of 3D applications on mobile devices. These are not available on WP7 phones. Is this locking developers in or out of WP7 app development?
Maybe Steve Woz was just trying to channel Steve Jobs' spirit, but got Steve Ballmer's anti-spirit in an appalling New-Age screw-up. Did he also throw a chair or scream about killing Google?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I've noticed Woz speaking more freely lately from praising open source to now liking microsoft phone interface over iphone's.
Course we all know Steve Jobs was bipolar, would verbally assault employees, and even physically assault one at one point. Throwing temper tantrums, making developers work 16+ hours a day and the story that even made it to that old movie firing a guy for nodding off after 100 hour work week.
He ran the place as a tyrant. and no telling how much verbal abuse and possible legal threats Woz received when he left. There are some candid interviews with Woz where he states he could be Job's friend but was a monster.
Now with Jobs dead he has freedom now to finally speak his mind instead of be worried that some appletard will sue him or try and kill his pension for being anti apple now.
I find the Mac OS X interface very unproductive and prefer either Gnome2 or Windows over it.
Having said that, it's still miles behind Gnome3 in terms of being the most unproductive.
none
agreed, so a more interesting question is what's more unproductive - unity or gnome3? both make me want to kill myself, but i like unity better because it makes me desperate to kill myself quicker, like with a gun, as opposed to slitting my wrists, which i hear can make you chilly and sensitive to drafts. with mac os x, it's more like a desire to jump off a building -- i still want to die quickly, but maybe a little user experience along the way doesn't hurt. and then the abrupt too-much-user-experience stop at the end.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Does it use any bits of zune? Oh it does? Then I would have to say Woz was only looking at half the picture. If it has zune stuff (i.e. software for syncing) then Woz hasn't even seen how horrible that experience can be and why it is something that trumps whatever pluses the phone has.
Microsoft refuses to let the zune stuff die and it will likely take down this phone too.
...first he claims that Apple is actually innovative in the last couple of decades, and then he calls that ghastly fugly UI from M$ pretty or something?!
I think that Woz must be suffering from a brain tumor of some sort given these comments, or loads of monies and lawyers and financial advisors...
wince(including their aborted wince 7 aka winders phonez 7 and winders 8 for ARM is nothing more than their crappy wince embedded OS which has been variously loaded down with crappy UI starting with teh originalz having winder 3.0 UI while being just as useless AND having fewer "featurez"...)
He did say that Android "is no contest."
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
"My primary phone is the iPhone," said Wozniak. "I love the beauty of it. But I wish it did all the things my Android does, I really do."
http://www.dailytech.com/Woz+I+Wish+My+iPhone+Did+All+The+Things+My+Android+Does/article23798.htm
It's sad that Wozniak was always hindered by his inability to be a bullshit artist.
I question why you think he was "hindered." He's a fabulously wealthy geek who can pursue whatever interests he likes. Obviously he had no interest in becoming a buzzword-spouting script-reading corporate CxO. Feeling sorry for him for not being a successful chief executive is like pitying Steve Jobs for never becoming Prime Minister of Canada.
Even if Windows did good on new OS to late as a owner of windows mobile 5 ,6 & 7 before my IPhone should have done this sooner
Have no interest in new OS