Xbox 360 Kinect Said To Add Internet Explorer Browsing

TheGift73 writes in with this link about IE 9 coming to an Xbox 360 near you. "Microsoft is currently testing a modified version of Internet Explorer 9 on its Xbox 360 console, according to our sources. The Xbox 360 currently includes Bing voice search, but it's limited to media results. Microsoft's new Internet Explorer browser for Xbox will expand on this functionality to open up a full browser for the console. We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms."

Comments

virus

[Anonymous Coward]

what to do when xbox gets a virus?

Re:virus

[magicdev]

Considering that 360 can only run signed executables, and that IE9 is actually the safest web browser around (especially it's sandbox and other security features), I'd say it's quite unlikely.

Re:virus

[Xacid]

Ask and you shall receive: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ie9-chrome10-safari5-opera11-browser-security-phishing-spam,news-11880.html

Re:virus

[Sylak]

NSS said that “Internet Explorer 9 was by far the best at protecting against socially-engineered malware

Meaning what? Malware that you need to activate yourself because you're a moron?

Re:virus

[Anonymous Coward]

install norton antivirus and turn it into a paperweight?

Re:virus

[DrgnDancer]

I suspect it won't do Flash or ActiveX, so it'll probably be reasonably safe. No bridge to outside world is completely safe of course, but if you limit the active content to JavaScript it probably won't be too bad. IE isn't nearly as full of holes as it used to be (not much worse than any other browser these days, really) and a lot of what is there for holes are in ActiveX. Add to that the fact that the XBox won't run unsigned code, it doesn't run Windows so any exploit would have to be completely retooled, and the fact that while there are a fair number of XBoxes out there, it's only a fraction of the number of Windows PCs; and I suspect not too many people will be willing to devote the effort to put nasties in the wild. Who know though. Maybe someone will figure out how to own the things.

Re:virus

[Tx]

Yes; from the NSS labs report: "Recent studies show that users are four times more likely to be tricked into downloading malware than be compromised by an exploit ." and " Note: This study does not evaluate browser security related to vulnerabilities in plug -ins or the browsers themselves.".

Seems quite a stretch to claim IE9 is the "safest web browser" based on a report that specifically does not test browser or plug-in vulnerabilities, even if PEBKAC vulnerabilities are more prevalent, although maybe the poster who claimed that had some other source.

Re:virus

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently. The cited link above specifically stated "Excluded from the test were typical browser vulnerabilities, as well as sites that integrate nasty clickjacking or drive-by downloads. All included websites required user action".

Pretty sure IE would end up dead last if real tests were used, and not "Hey, dipshit, this site is fake."

Re:virus

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see: Wikipedia says Xbox LIVE has about 40 million members. Internet Explorer hasn't had the best history when it comes to exploits.
Hmmmm, I imagine it will be a fun challenge for a virus writer. Exactly how much personal information do you think they could steal?

Re:virus

[Anonymous Coward]

and with noscript, Firefox is practically immune to clickjacking attempts (it has a built in click-jacker detector, even if you enable scripts)

Re:virus

[WhiteArmor]

Internet Explorer has had very solid security record after IE5. ActiveX was a big mess, but it was innovative technology that even Google is trying to replicate with their embedded binaries now. It's also the reason why Microsoft spend so much time hardening IE's security. Now a days when the most attacked vector is third party software like Flash and PDF Reader, IE is almost the only browser capable of blocking these attacks. Firefox still has NO SANDBOX AT ALL. It's like having sex with a prostitute in Cambodia - when the hiv rate is almost 20% among the sex workers, only an idiot would have sex without a condom.

Re:virus

[MacGyver2210]

I love when they compare the newest version of IE to 7 full versions previous of Firefox. It always makes for such an objective comparison.

Re:virus

[robthebloke]

Internet Explorer hasn't had the best history when it comes to exploits.

Which makes it even more impressive that Sony can overtake Microsoft as the undisputed exploit king, and that's been achieved without the help of IE!

Re:virus

[Anonymous Coward]

what to do when xbox gets a virus?

Woah, seriously, I don't think everyone here quite understands the importance of the AC's post just now. No, really, look at it and think about it for a few minutes.

Do you see it? No, man, look at it harder. When I tell you, you're going to feel so stupid that you didn't get it sooner.

Give up? It's the first significant post to an article about Microsoft, and it's not from the MS shill vats! Look at it! Even two whole minutes after the article was posted, the shills didn't march out with a pre-written, marketing-department-screened post, and something like this got in before them!

I mean... wow. Just... wow. They must've realized Microsoft isn't paying them well enough.

Re:virus

[Eponymous Hero]

i submitted this same story addressing this same angle, but they ran someone else's submission instead. probably thought it was trolling.

Re:virus

[kharbour]

I love when they compare the newest version of IE to 7 full versions previous of Firefox. It always makes for such an objective comparison.

At the rate Firefox versions come out these days, I'd say it's a fair comparison.

Re:virus

[Billly Gates]

IE 9 was made in 2010 so its a fair comparison.

IE 10 should be compared to web browsers today.

Re:virus

[s.petry]

Wrong, applications can still change security settings and get you exploited very easily. In many cases, this is built in to software installers. It still has the absolute worse track record for security unless the only thing you base your statement on is how many security patches are released.

This flaw in architecture is not yet fixed, and probably never will be. In order to be compete they keep the browser loaded directly in the kernel.

Now, is it better than v5.5 where they introduced "active install" which allowed installation of remote binaries and plug-ins without user knowledge? Duh, hard not to be better than the biggest piece of security nightmare ever released to unknowing consumers. It is still the least secure of all the popular commercial web browsers (Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari).

Re:virus

[Kalriath]

None. The Xbox 360 browser won't be supporting plugins, of that you can be certain. And with a cursory glance at the exploits list, almost all are either socially engineered ("your computer has a virus, click here to scan!") which won't work on a 360, or related to plugins such as Flash, Java or Adobe Reader - also a no-go on the 360.

Oh really?

[robcfg]

"We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms." Does that include YouTube for example? As far as I remember you have to be a XBox Live Gold Member to use the YouTube application...

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

And Netflix, and Xfinity App, etc etc etc... All of these would then become instantly available through the use of an internet browser that can surf all parts of the web. Unless they are going to require an Xbox Live Gold membership to be able to use the browser....

Re:Oh really?

[drinkypoo]

You're assuming that the browser is going to have what it takes to support Youtube. But if they bone it hard enough it won't be able to go there, or to lots of other sites.

Re:Oh really?

[ThinkWeak]

"We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms." Does that include YouTube for example? As far as I remember you have to be a XBox Live Gold Member to use the YouTube application...

I'm not trying to be rude, but do people actually buy an Xbox and not have a Gold membership? It equates to something like $5 per month for access to demos, weekly arcade games, an indie game market, promo videos, media streaming, a stable staging environment for multiplayer gaming across games, etc.

Not to burst your bubble, but you'll probably need a Gold membership to use the IE browser anyways. Hopefully they launch Skype soon. That's my only real complaint.

Re:Oh really?

[mlk]

Only if it supports Flash, which I don't think it will.

I think it will be a Gold feature.

Re:Oh really?

[garrettg84]

I wonder if this will allow Hulu "Web Only" content. I cant understand how getting Hulu over the internet is not automatically classified as 'Web Only' but there are shows that will not stream to the XBOX360 and **MUST** be watched in a browser.

Re:Oh really?

[robcfg]

"We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms." Does that include YouTube for example? As far as I remember you have to be a XBox Live Gold Member to use the YouTube application...

I'm not trying to be rude, but do people actually buy an Xbox and not have a Gold membership? It equates to something like $5 per month for access to demos, weekly arcade games, an indie game market, promo videos, media streaming, a stable staging environment for multiplayer gaming across games, etc. Not to burst your bubble, but you'll probably need a Gold membership to use the IE browser anyways. Hopefully they launch Skype soon. That's my only real complaint.

For me the key point is why do I have to pay for something that is free? I mean, I can watch youtube without restrictions on my Windows PC but I have to pay extra to do the same on the 360. And I don't have a gold account because I'm not into online gaming, but I'd like to watch youtube in my living room tv.

Re:Oh really?

[ArcherB]

And Netflix, and Xfinity App, etc etc etc... All of these would then become instantly available through the use of an internet browser that can surf all parts of the web. Unless they are going to require an Xbox Live Gold membership to be able to use the browser....

That's my guess. I refuse to pay M$ money every month to use something I've already paid for (or received as a gift). Nearly all Internet functions, with the exception of updates, require a Gold Membership to use. We use our Wii for things like Netflix at no extra costs and the 360 for Kinnect games.

Re:Oh really?

[DrgnDancer]

Mostly stuff that Hulu just links to the network's website. I ran into this when I changed to FIOS and forgot to setup "Criminal Minds" to record. It's not on On Demand, and Hulu lists it on their site, but only links to cbs.com, so I couldn't use the XBox. We just watched it on my wife's laptop, but I definitely would have preferred the TV.

Re:Oh really?

[slyrat]

I'm not trying to be rude, but do people actually buy an Xbox and not have a Gold membership? It equates to something like $5 per month for access to demos, weekly arcade games, an indie game market, promo videos, media streaming, a stable staging environment for multiplayer gaming across games, etc. Not to burst your bubble, but you'll probably need a Gold membership to use the IE browser anyways. Hopefully they launch Skype soon. That's my only real complaint.

Well I'm guessing that people that have more than one console are MUCH less likely to pay for Gold membership. All the things you mentioned you can do for free on the wii or ps3. The only part that would be worth the gold would be multiplayer in a game you couldn't get on another platform. Which does happen, just not often.

Re:Oh really?

[Tmann72]

I have no doubt that the browser will be a gold feature as well. So it probably won't matter.

Re:Oh really?

[Robert Zenz]

"We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms."

I already do that, it's called "PC" and stands in my living room right besides the television...yes, I know you only quoted that part.

Re:Oh really?

[tepples]

an indie game market

All the things you mentioned you can do for free on the wii or ps3.

Unless you're talking about Homebrew Channel on Wii, Wii and PlayStation 3 don't really have an indie game market comparable to Xbox Live Indie Games or the iOS App Store that copied XBLIG. Nintendo still insists on WiiWare developers having a dedicated office and "relevant game industry experience" (a previous commercial game on another platform), and indie developers operating out of home offices can't necessarily afford those.

Re:Oh really?

[HAKdragon]

Since when is a gold account required for buying Live Arcade and indie games? Almost all of demos are available for silver members as well, though some have/had timed exclusivity to gold members (which is BS in my opinion)

Re:Oh really?

[mwvdlee]

"Web only" is rather correct. "Internet" is generally the TCP/IP stack, "Web" is just one of the many applications that use the internet.
They could have used a more obvious name like "Webbrowser only" though.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

See PS3 minis.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Youtube doesn't need Flash, so the question is still relevant.

Re:Oh really?

[ZorinLynx]

I don't mind paying for something that requires servers that MS has to maintain, like multiplayer gaming.

However, paying to do things like watch Netflix, YouTube, or use a web browser is too far, because I'm not actually using Microsoft's servers to do any of that. Why should I have to pay monthly for it?

I know it's not much money, it's more about principle than anything else. I hardly even use my Xbox 360 anymore because I got tired of all the nickel and diming and crippled games. Anyone who has ever compared Team Fortress 2 on the PC with the Xbox version will know what I'm talking about.

Gaming on the PC is far superior; unfortunately publishers using excessive DRM and requiring $600 video cards are frustrating even some of the strongest holdouts over to consoles, so it's become a niche market.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gold membership is why I stopped buying things for my 360. Multiplayer should never be behind a paywall. They keep throwing in all these features that are utterly useless if you just use the system to play games and try to use that to justify the price, but ultimately they're just the troll under the bridge charging you a toll to use your internet connection. The fact that large sections of content for a game can suddenly disappear because you didn't pay Microsoft their monthly bribe is stupid. I don't care how little that bribe is, it's a terrible precedent which MS has already tried to expand upon.

Anyone else remember when Games For Windows Live required a Gold subscription and ultimately just locked away features that were standard in PC games? They'll charge for whatever players will accept, and that's ultimately the problem. Too many people just accept it because "it's not that much."

Re:Oh really?

[ZorinLynx]

Exactly. I'd have no problems paying $5 a month if I was an avid online player on the xbox 360, because I'm actually using Microsoft's servers.

But to watch YouTube? That's plain ridiculous. It'd be like having to pay Apple $5 a month to be able to surf the web on my iPad.

Ugh. I better shut up. Don't want to give them ideas.

Re:Oh really?

[RaceProUK]

I'm not trying to be rude, but do people actually buy an Xbox and not have a Gold membership? It equates to something like $5 per month for access to demos

Wrong

weekly arcade games

Wrong

an indie game market

Wrong

promo videos

Wrong

media streaming

From PC to XBox - Wrong
From Netflix et al - Right

a stable staging environment for multiplayer gaming across games

Right

Not trying to be an arse, just want to clarify a few things ;)

Re:Oh really?

[tepples]

Where's the signup page to become a PS3 minis developer? This press release mentions "SCEA Third Party Relations", but all I get when I visit the URL in the press release is "YOU ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO ACCESS THIS SITE".

Re:Oh really?

[mcgrew]

"We are told that the browser will let Xbox users surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms." Does that include YouTube for example?

I'm already watching YouTube in my living room on my TV, but I don't have an X-Box. I have an old PC running kubuntu that's using the TV as a monitor, which is pretty much all an X-Box is except the X-Box is using a different OS.

The PC-TV combo is great for old DOS games under DosBox, too. Now if I could get the old Windows games to play I'd be set.

Re:Oh really?

[garrettg84]

Irritating. Take your correctness somewhere else. Ever seen a link on the 'web' to something like SSH, or a UNC path to a windows/samba share, how about an email link? These are not 'web' but still exist within the 'web'. Your concept of what the "web" or internet has evolved into is outdated. Yes, I understand what HTTP is as well as most other common protocols out there, and yes I know the tcp/ip stack up and down. Another thing about these streaming sites like Hulu - likely, they are not even using HTTP for the media. Some other application/media server normally handles the streaming to try to keep it as proprietary and controlled as possible. Even if "web browser only" was more correct, I wouldn't need flash/silverlight

You appear to be oversimplifying and over complicating the matter at the same time. Stop. Nobody cares. Next time, try to contribute something.

Re:Oh really?

[LtGordon]

Can someone please explain to me why Sony doesn't do more to encourage indie games? As best I can tell, because Sony makes most of their profit from game sales, they don't want to risk allowing a new market to compete with the money-makers, which is logical.

My feeling, though, is that opening up new markets and capabilties can only increase the demand for the console, which in turn should at least balance out a theoretical loss in game sales: Nobody buys a console specifically for indie games, but for many it's definitely an influencing factor, and these additional buyers are almost certain to buy something. Indie apps hasn't exactly killed Android.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I already paid Microsoft a huge pile of money for an Xbox. I sure the hell am no paying them a regular fee. Is money so worthless to you that you don't mind being milked dry by dozens of people? As someone pointed out, most of the thing you listed are free already. It does make me a big angry that I can't use Netflix on my Xbox when it came as a free app on a box costing 1/5 the price, but that's how the scam works.

Re:Oh really?

[mwvdlee]

Right, that's what I should have commented on your post complaining about Hulu getting the term "web only" wrong.

Re:Oh really?

[Githaron]

I am curious. What kind and how much of the traffic that comes from an Xbox 360 actually goes through Microsoft's network?

Re:Oh really?

[Githaron]

It'd be like having to pay Apple $5 a month to be able to surf the web on my iPad.

Ugh. I better shut up. Don't want to give them ideas.

You forgot to account for the Apple Tax. It will probably be $10 total.

Re:Oh really?

[Githaron]

Gaming on the PC is far superior; unfortunately publishers using excessive DRM and requiring $600 video cards are frustrating even some of the strongest holdouts over to consoles, so it's become a niche market.

$600 video card? I think I spend $250 and I have yet to run into a game that I couldn't run on the highest graphics settings. You are forgetting that consoles are holding back game graphics. Today, most game companies build with consoles in mind. The graphics card in consoles are not upgradable. Even if a console had the best available graphics cards at the time of creation, consoles tend to go years without a new console coming out. That said, it doesn't really bother me. Graphics have gotten to the point that while better graphics are always welcome, the current graphics are sufficiently pleasing. I would rather game companies focus on better AI. Of course, I guess the console would eventually hold that back too.

Re:Oh really?

[phriedom]

But the thing that Xbox Live has over Wii or PS3, or even the PC for that matter, is the built-in voice communication, separate and compatible with the games and apps, so you can join up in a Party, then fire up Netflix together or go into a game together and have the chat continue to work through the loading screens and not interfere with the application sound. Playing with people you know, even if you only know them from Xbox Live, is so much better. It works so much better that I know some people who wanted to play Killzone together on their PS3s, and they fired up their Xboxen just to provide the communication.

Re:Oh really?

[ThinkWeak]

I guess I'm oblivious to what I'm paying for then. I just thought those were perks to the online gaming. Here's the official list

I don't see it mentioned, but do Silver Accounts get the 500mb "cloud backup" too?

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

They appeared to have a shit fit over the idea of non-gold members getting BBC iplayer even though they couldn't charge for it which is why it took at least a year after everyone else had it for the xbox to get it.

You can pretty much guarantee IE will require a gold membership.

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

Why should I pay for content that is free everywhere else? Also regarding the Xbox specific content and online play. I don't play games online games enough on one system to warrant paying a monthly fee. Why should I pay for something when I'm not using it? It's not like it's going towards ensuring I get bug free games or any sort of added benefit. In fact MS doesn't like publishers to give away free content which is why, if you were to play a Valve game on a console, the PS3 is the best choice.

It's the publisher's game, let them decide how they provide content to it rather than bleeding customers dry.

Re:Oh really?

[RaceProUK]

No - see http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-live/game-saves-in-the-cloud/cloud-save-games

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

Apple hardware holds it's value far better than anything else so even if you want to moan about it being pricey, you'll likely get more than the difference back assuming you're not one of those people that think some $300 laptop is the equivalent of a macbook.

Re:Oh really?

[Githaron]

You sell your electronics? Usually by the time I am done with an electronic device, it has no real value anyway.

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

You mean the collection of indie games that are largely shit and that MS try to pretend aren't there? The Wii does indeed get indie games like World of Goo and the only reason it didn't get Super Meat boy was due to size constraints. Whether it's a good thing or not Nintendo does try to keep the level of quality up. Obviously it doesn't always succeed but XBL's indie section is a shit heap.

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

Sony does allow indie games in the sense of much smaller companies. They don't allow some 14 year old to publish a turd on the PS3 though. Sure MS is more open but they've also had numerous complaints about making it difficult to even find the indie games with each of their redesigns and they'll no doubt become more strict on future systems because XBL's indie section is full of rubbish.

Re:Oh really?

[tepples]

Where should an indie developer intent on creating other-than-shit start?

Re:Oh really?

[BluenoseJake]

at 9 bucks a month, you could have had xbox live gold for 22 months. Add in the extra power, and your supposed savings seem pretty small, a few cents a day, at most.

Re:Oh really?

[shutdown -p now]

If it's really IE9, then it has HTML5 video support - enough for YouTube to work, at least for H.264 videos.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

Nintendo still insists on WiiWare developers having a dedicated office and "relevant game industry experience" (a previous commercial game on another platform), and indie developers operating out of home offices can't necessarily afford those.

Then go to work for an established developer, pay your dues, build up a nest egg/get funding/take out loans and then start up your OWN company, with an office and employees. if you REALLY want to be a professional game developer quit complaining and actually DO something.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

You are far far too literal for your own good, it's one of the reasons why I sometimes think you'll never bee a professional developer, because of your disability.

http://www.scedev.net/index.php

Licensing Information

        SCEA Territory (for North America Territory)
        Please send all enquiries to devrel-scea @ playstation.sony.com

you can always take the chance and send them an e-mail.

But they probably won't talk to you. Most corporate types would see you as a "basement dwelling aspie fanboy wannabe developer"...which is why I suggest working for an established company to earn your bona fides, make contacts, etc..THEN going independent if you want.

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

That's a tough one because anything that has a rock bottom entry requirement is going to filled with crap. I believe I still have an issue of Edge magazine that discusses how rare it is to actually make money from XBL indie games. Android isn't much better (I'd guess it's worse actually) and even the iphone is a tough one.

In my mind if I were going to do it I'd do it on the PC. I could target 3 operating systems if I really wanted to. Two of those operating system don't have a saturated gaming market unlike the xbox, windows and iphone. I still think it has the best way to find multiple sales points (your own website, Steam, humble indie bundle, etc) and you in far better control over whether you have to pay anyone else a cut for each sale.

That and while you can promote any game on the web for any platform the PC allows you to promote and hopefully push them directly into a sale. Where as especially on the xbox you have to promote and hope they can be bothered to remember it when they go and turn on their xbox or hope they can be bothered to buy more points if they need to where as it can be a straight simple sale on the PC.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

For starters, throw out your tetris/lumines/concentration clone stuff... There are too many of those already.

Then go to work for an established small dev house, because there's no way you'll be able to make a commercial quality game for the PS3, even a mini...on your own. Sure, maybe you can make a NES style sprite, but are you a REAL artist. Can you make good catchy music, are you good at documentation that doesn't sound written by a robot?

Super Meat Boy? A Team of four people worked on that.

World of Goo? Two people, two years and $10000 of savings AND they were former EA employees, so they had professional experience. The Wii port required another person.

So you can't really do it alone, not anymore.

Re:Oh really?

[thetoadwarrior]

I usually keep them myself because I make a stupid assumption my outdated hardware will come in handy at some point.

But I do recall trying to buy G4s from ebay and thinking fuck it because it's not worth what they're asking. My old style ipod I did sell though for I believe just over 50% of what I paid for it. Maybe because it was black they were stupid enough to think it was an ipod touch. I don't really care what the reasoning was and there are a lot of people that have traded up ipads because they can get the new one at a more reasonable price after selling the old one.

Their stuff can be expensive so I think as long as you keep it in reasonable condition there are plenty of people that will look for anyway to have an Apple device and save money. Even if actually it doesn't make much sense.

Re:Oh really?

[Kalriath]

To not use Flash, the browser needs to support WebM. The Xbox360 will not, so the question is still irrelevant.

Re:Oh really?

[Kalriath]

Ah, but how many people were involved in Angry Birds, now available on "every fucking platform under the sun"? Or Fruit Ninja, now available on "even a few platforms that Angry Birds isn't". That's probably the two best examples of formerly unknowns coming out with a product so successful that they don't need to apply to the console vendors, the console vendors approach them. Hell, Microsoft likely paid big money to Halfbrick for Fruit Ninja Kinect to be made.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

Ah, but neither Rovio or Halfbrick are unknowns, they were already established successful niche companies before they had their big hits.

Rovio had a goodly sized team for Angry birds, if you look at the credits. And Rovio has been in business since 2003. They started out doing J2ME games. received their first funding from an "angel" in 2005. They didn't just come out of nowhere.

Halfbrick has been around since 2001, mostly GBA development. They seemed to be the sort of house hired out by other companies to do the GBA ports of PS2 games, until they started branching out to IOS, Android, PS3 Mini's and XBLA

Re:Oh really?

[tepples]

Then go to work for an established developer

What should I know before moving to another state?

Re:Oh really?

[tepples]

For starters, throw out your tetris/lumines/concentration clone stuff

Done. I haven't touched a line of code in a falling block game since 2009. Or by "throw out" did you mean "remove past work from the web site"?

Then go to work for an established small dev house

The sticking point here is having to leave one's home state. I'm still trying to derive from first principles either A. why that ought to be necessary in an ideal world or B. what underlying non-ideal chain of events causes that requirement.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

Or by "throw out" did you mean "remove past work from the web site"?

yes.

I'm still trying to derive from first principles either A. why that ought to be necessary in an ideal world or B. what underlying non-ideal chain of events causes that requirement.

You're overthinking this and doing so is a waste of your time.

1. This isn't an ideal world.

2. If one wants to be a chef of haute cousine, one would probalby move to wear such restaurants are plentiful. If one wants to be a game developer one might want to move to where the game developers are: Seattle, Silicon Valley, some of the larger cities, etc. It's that simple.

Re:Oh really?

[CronoCloud]

What do you mean by that? A move's a move, for the most part. You're an adult, figure it out. If you don't understand that...well then your disability is probably TOO disabling for you to ever be a professional developer.

And you should probably have a job offer before moving, doesn't that make sense?

For gosh sakes, you're a nerdy person with Asperger's with an internet connection, figure it out already. Use you internet connection to make contact with professional dev houses, fill out applications, set up interviews, book travel...if you have to be led by the hand this much....well, perhaps you should give up your dream.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

What? The question is mostly about if you can access every site, or only certain ones. It's still relevant even if Flash didn't exist and HTML5 was the name of a fairy planet.

A new era

[Anonymous Coward]

Xbox, open Brazzers.

Re:A new era

[Anonymous Coward]

Scroll up, scroll down, scroll up, scroll down, scroll up, scroll down, scroll up, scroll down, I can't see a thing damnit!

Re:A new era

[PerfectionLost]

Hey its a kinnect. You can use motion too. Thrust your hips rapidly to fast forward?

Finally, soft mods for the 360!

[GeneralTurgidson]

Thank you, Microsoft.

Re:Finally, soft mods for the 360!

[The MAZZTer]

It probably won't have ActiveX support. So you can bet that will close up most security loopholes right there.

Re:Finally, soft mods for the 360!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd welcome it too if I had one.

JavaScript can let you do a fair number of things.
If the browser is quick to start, it won't be an issue to have your own web server on your network that has a bunch of apps on it that you can do whatever with, be it some games or whatever.

I done the same on PSP.
I made a horribly convoluted old-style webcam girl of the 90s remote desktop application for basic interaction with PC.
Well, not so convoluted, but a Flash VNC would have likely been better.
Only problem is PSP is slow at rendering images. So I had to make an image queue which it loaded the most recent one of.
Simple keyboard all around the screen, input control, done. Stemmed from a text editor that stored in cache.
Haven't used it in forever though.
I was in the process of writing a basic proxy that collapsed all sites in to a really tall site so I could read things easier without the need to either zoom or horizontal scroll. Never did bother.
I could likely do it with a userscript even easier now that I think about it.

Oh the things you do when you are bored.

Just now?

[Cwix]

I'm not a Sony fan, but didn't the PS3 come stock with a web browser? I always assumed the 360 did as well. Really MS? It took you this long to put a browser on it?

Re:Just now?

[luther349]

antitrust and so fourth prevented it but relly if you think bought i everyone else has one so it would not be.

Re:Just now?

[ifrag]

I'm not a Sony fan, but didn't the PS3 come stock with a web browser?

Yes, it does, and the PS3 one supports watching videos on Youtube as well. Although, overall it's a bit of a pain to use, certainly not an ideal way to browse. And if there was a way to get it to do 1080 for Youtube I never managed to find it.

All this trying to make consoles general purpose has been rather useless. The only thing the consoles do well is games and in the PS3/Xbox case they are also good enough for watching movies. Anything else and you are better off using a PC.

Re:Just now?

[Anonymous Coward]

The WII had a decent browser (Opera 9) 5 years ago.

Re:Just now?

[mlk]

Both PS3 and Wii have a browser. They both suck. Opera, while lovely, is a pain to control and PS3 one was crippled in fun new ways.

Re:Just now?

[XxtraLarGe]

The web browser on the PS3 is garbage, looks terrible on my TV screen, and the text hard to read. It has very limited features, and works poorly with sites like Facebook. Not sure how well it does with multimedia sites, since I've only dabbled with it a little bit. Maybe they've made improvements since the last time I used it, but if I want to look something up quickly, I'd rather use my iPhone because the Safari mobile browser is 10x better than the PS3 browser.

Re:Just now?

[Anonymous Coward]

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Re:Just now?

[robmv]

The PS3 had an awful port of old Netfront (dumb phone browser engine) to the PS3. Some months ago they upgraded it to a more recent version of Netfront that is based on Webkit. It is a modern engine but still very slow on the PS3

Re:Just now?

[slyrat]

Not sure how well it does with multimedia sites, since I've only dabbled with it a little bit.

It works fine with at least some media sites. I've tested it with pandora and youtube and they seem to work fine.

Re:Just now?

[Tmann72]

Do you have any source material to vouch that the anti-trust case prevented them from putting a browser on the system sooner? I'm curious as I never thought of it that way before.

Re:Just now?

[HAKdragon]

Does the PS3 browser support HTML 5? It's been forever since I tired to browse YouTube on my PS3, but I thought at one point most of the videos didn't work because they required a newer version of Flash (which, from what I remember, hasn't been updated in ages).

Re:Just now?

[Nghtmr9999]

I can understand wanting to browse the from the comfort of your living room, but it just seems like PCs would be better. How good are the browsers on consoles anyway, I haven't used one?

Re:Just now?

[RaceProUK]

Largely bad. They're just there so you can check a few sites quickly. For a serious Web session, stick to a PC.

Re:Just now?

[The Moof]

I'm not a Sony fan, but didn't the PS3 come stock with a web browser?

Yes, it did, but it was pretty bad. I tried it a few times for various things, I was severely underwhelmed. There's very, very few things that I would want to browse on my TV over my PC, and those few things didn't even work well (eg, streaming video). It's also a pain typing with a controller any of the 3 controllers and an on-screen keyboard.

I always assumed the 360 did as well. Really MS? It took you this long to put a browser on it?

I had the same thought when the current gen of consoles first came out. But at this point, with the prevalence of browsers on smartphones and tablets, I don't think browsers on the console is a good idea, especially given the quality of the PS3/Wii browsers. Throw in the fact that Xbox360, PS3, and to a lesser degree, the Wii, all have native apps to do most things people would want (Hulu, Facebook, Netflix, etc), and browsers on consoles become a very niche feature that will mostly be ignored.

Re:Just now?

[c]

The PS3? Heck, even the Wii comes with a browser. A shitty one, granted, but even Lynx is better than nothing...

Re:Just now?

[c9brown]

I was browsing on my Dreamcast in 1999.

Re:Just now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit. I'll take IE 6 over it

Re:Just now?

[madhi19]

Yeah the ps3 came out with a browser and we been bitching about it ever since. Quite frankly when am using my ps3 I rather boot up my Iconia a500 than use it. This goes to show having a browser might not be a bad idea on a console but having the wrong browser is useless.

Re:Just now?

[CronoCloud]

Does the PS3 browser support HTML 5?

As far as I know, it doesn't.

but I thought at one point most of the videos didn't work because they required a newer version of Flash (which, from what I remember, hasn't been updated in ages

A youtube update broke PS3 viewing for a bit, yes, but the PS3 browser got updated, Youtube is fine now....

Re:Just now?

[CronoCloud]

SCEJ has a hard-on for Netfront, because it's made a fellow Japanese company, they ignore how crappy Netfront is. The PS2's Japan only BBN browser for the PS2 was also netfront, as is the PSP's browser.

When I had LInux on my PS3, I actually preferred to use Firefox under LInux to browse on TV.

Re:Just now?

[luther349]

they wanted to do it way back on the original xbox but the idea was scrapped.

Re:Just now?

[drinkypoo]

The probiem with browsing on the Wii is the output resolution, SDTV fail. Otherwise the browser would be fine.

Re:Just now?

[Kalriath]

You can bet Opera's going to have something to say about this...

Only now?

[Stormwatch]

Only now they're adding a web browser to their console?

Dreamcast: been there, done that, back in friggin' 1999.

Re:Only now?

[HAKdragon]

I believe that Saturn had a web browser before that (and the company that built that one went on to develop the Dreamcast's browser).

Re:Only now?

[RaceProUK]

Although it didn't have a web browser, the SNES was network-capable with the correct peripherals. Not sure if it could access anything outside gaming networks though.

Re:Only now?

[SoVi3t]

Damn you beat me to it. Seriously, the ability to surf the web on a 360 should have been a day one feature. This entire console gen was a serious letdown for me.

Re:Only now?

[Stormwatch]

There was a game-on-demand service for the Atari 2600, the CVC GameLine -- the predecessor to AOL.

I hope it lets me use Bing search

[Joce640k]

I hope it lets me use Bing search. Having Bing search on my TV in my living room would be a dream come true.

Re:I hope it lets me use Bing search

[mcgrew]

Bing? I have Google as my home page on my TV (and no xbox, it's a real PC). Why would anyone deliberately use Bing? The only times I've been to Bing is by accident (like forgetting to change BT's or a new browser's default search).

Re:I hope it lets me use Bing search

[s.petry]

The MS shills are really out in full force on this post. Trying to bump that horrible search engine and the names is all that's happening. I'm not using either name rather intentionally.

Oh, and putting internet exploder on the console is plain dumb. I give it less than a day before there is a mass zombie army of those things spamming pron advert emails. I'd be willing to guess that other console makers considered similar ideas, and rejected them because of the possibility of doing just that. MS has never cared about the consumer as much as they cared about revenues, customers are just an afterthought..

Re:I hope it lets me use Bing search

[Kalriath]

Similar ideas? The PS3 sports a full browser - with Flash even - that works perfectly fine and does not create virus vectors. I'm relatively confident that Xbox 360 could also support it just as well.

Also, why does every person who uses and likes Bing have to be a shill? Isn't it possible they're just crazy?

Re:Microsoft is a virus

[Anonymous Coward]

"and that IE9 is actually the safest web browser around"

show me the source code or I call bullshit. Same with Opera, fuck the claims about security, how many remote exploits are patched every few weeks by Microshit? Like I would trust proprietary blob shit!

Duh. So if they don't release patches, it was more secure? Also: nobody is going to show you source code. People don't even care that you have an opinion that you post anonymously.

Web Development

[Nghtmr9999]

No doubt Internet Explorer on the Xbox 360 will add additional lines of styling to the "Internet Explorer Only" CSS Stylesheets

Re:Web Development

[RaceProUK]

No more so than for phone-based browsers.

How to hook a laptop up to a TV

[tepples]

We just watched it on my wife's laptop, but I definitely would have preferred the TV.

Does your laptop have HDMI, DVI, or VGA out? If so, use the TV as an external monitor for your laptop.

Re:How to hook a laptop up to a TV

[thetoadwarrior]

I just use VGA for my laptop. It looks just fine on a 40" hdtv.

Get an EeeBox

[tepples]

If your Xbox disappoints, then get a different box. Buy an ASUS EeeBox, plug its HDMI out into your HDTV's HDMI in, get a wireless keyboard, and you have Bing search.

Re:Get an EeeBox

[Joce640k]

I want it via a genuine Microsoft product. Only then will I get the full Bing experience.

Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[tepples]

surf all parts of the web straight from their living rooms

Except CronoCloud and several other users keep telling me that statistically nobody wants to do that. Therefore, publishers tend not to cater to the HTPC market.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because most people just plug in their old laptop instead of buying an HTPC. I work with a bunch of engineers, but even the guys in their 50's have their old laptop hooked up to their TV. It's just a VGA cable and a sound cable.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[ZorinLynx]

I'm about as geek as you can get, but have no desire to surf the web on a TV. Web surfing is a more personal thing; I'd rather do it on a desktop, laptop, or tablet than on a big TV.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[tepples]

That's because most people just plug in their old laptop instead of buying an HTPC. [...] It's just a VGA cable and a sound cable.

Except I'm told that a lot of people either A. have a desktop and no laptop, B. have an SDTV and no HDTV, C. have an HDTV with only HDMI input and no VGA and an old laptop with only VGA output and no HDMI, or D. don't know what that blue D-shaped port on the back of the TV is useful for. I've tried to address D on my page, but how can the others be addressed?

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[Fishead]

I picked up an Acer Revo a while back because it had a fiber optic audio connection to the amp, and sat nice and quiet next to the TV.

Fast forward a year, and now I'm surfing the web reclined on the couch.

I could go 6 feet that way and sit at a more powerful computer on a desk, or sit up and use a more powerful laptop, but... I'm sitting at the lowest powered machine in the house whining when it chokes on something. Sucks to be lazy...

If I didn't know any better, I'd guess Microsoft is trying to realize their dream of owning a closed platform. The only thing they're missing now is an "office" package.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[CronoCloud]

I work with a bunch of engineers,

The key word being engineers, which skews you data sample.

It'd be like asking how many of them put together a heathkit and then saying that heathkit is very popular in general, when it never was, always a niche market.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[drinkypoo]

CronoCloud and several other users

...are tools. More and more content is being delivered via the web, so more and more people are wondering how to hook their PC up to their TV. As this is only becoming more true (Netflix and Hulu both are getting worse and worse, while new sources of content continue to crop up) the trend ought to continue for the foreseeable future. It's simply not believable that the various studios will cooperate on a single delivery system and thus make it feasible to access "all" the content that's out there via a single client, unless that client is a web browser with a good set of plugins.

Re:Statistically nobody has an HTPC

[tepples]

More and more content is being delivered via the web, so more and more people are wondering how to hook their PC up to their TV.

No, more and more content is being delivered via non-web Internet technologies, so more and more people are wondering how to hook their consumer electronics device up to their TV.

It's simply not believable that the various studios will cooperate on a single delivery system

In the United States, at least, there's UltraViolet and VUDU. Believe it. Five out of six major studios have adopted it, and Walmart is selling it for $2 per film.

Why not Windows Media Player?

[landoltjp]

Really? I can't really get that jacked up about surfing the web on my XBox. However, given that it's tied into my home stereo, why not ditch the silly Windows Media Player set up required now (tethered to a PC in the home) and run the entire app right on the XBox? the xbox can already see my music library; I would love to control it, maybe add some tracks, from WMP.

OR (and this wouldn't be bad), how about iTunes on the XBox? That would be kinda cool

Re:Why not Windows Media Player?

[Kalriath]

Er, you know that when you're browsing your WMP library over DLNA (NOT Media Center) you can copy tracks from the music library to the Xbox 360's hard drive and play them from there without the PC right? It already does what you want.

EeeBox with genuine Windows

[tepples]

It took me all of five seconds to Google for an EeeBox that comes with a genuine Windows 7 Home Premium operating system.

Can't wait for www.jailbreakmyxbox360.com

[steppin_razor_LA]

:)

Good news an bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

aaaaaaand youtube on the box filters gobs of content (try looking up a music video on your PC/Tablet and then do the same on your box), and it is so fricking slow I don't even bother using it.

Well at least one can browse the pr0n sites "hands free" now.........

HAHA

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHA!

Right!

[Weaselmancer]

Considering that 360 can only run signed executables, and that IE9 is actually the safest web browser around

Right on, you tell them! Those keys are impossible to get at. Totally safe!

Re:Right!

[Kalriath]

It's cryptographically signed with certificates, not quite the same as the encryption (in fact, I don't think the disc is even encrypted).

Dude, Free

[salemboot]

Are you over 5 in the IQ department. Do some research. It's free to watch Youtube. They have an application. You can access all the services for free. The only thing that costs is the online multiplayer. Sigh.