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Little Health Risk Seen From Fukushima's Radioactivity

gbrumfiel writes "Two independent reports show that the public and most workers received only low doses of radiation following last year's meltdowns at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan. Nature reports that the risks presented by the doses are small, even though some are above guidelines and limits set by the Japanese government. Few people will develop cancer as a result of the accident, and those that do may never be able to conclusively link their illness to the meltdowns. The greatest risk lies with the workers who struggled in the early days to bring the reactors under control. So far no ill-effects have been detected. At Chernobyl, by contrast, the highest exposed workers died quickly from radiation sickness."

201 comments

  1. But but but but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nuklear! Evil!

    1. Re:But but but but... by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Funny

      You're obviously not a real anti-nuke activist. If you were, you'd know it's pronounced "nuke-yu-lar", as in "these power plants will nuke you!"

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:But but but but... by TheABomb · · Score: 2

      It's true. If they don't nuke you now, they will nuke you la'r.

      --
      MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
    3. Re:But but but but... by mellon · · Score: 1

      In my experience, it's the pro-nuke people who say "nuke-you-lur." Witness George Bush, for instance. Anti-nuclear activists generally know how to pronounce the word.

    4. Re:But but but but... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      I think the common factor isn't attitude. It's not having a decent science education. But in GWB's case it was an affectation. He had the best education money could buy and code to speak a certain way because it appealed to his base.

    5. Re:But but but but... by rockout · · Score: 1

      Just because he was eventually handed an Ivy League degree doesn't necessarily mean he personally got a great education.

      I find it difficult to believe that his hundreds of public grammar and pronunciation gaffes were all planned as a way to appeal to the base. Most of that shit was real. Real dumb.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    6. Re:But but but but... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And cue the flood of slashdor pro-nuclear energy apologists who will refuse to admit there is any possible downside to their preferred energy source, and who will label any opponents or doubters as tree-hugging hippies, commies or luddites.

      Since no one has died of direct radiation poisoning, then obviously nuclear power is completely safe, and we don't have to have any discussion about it.

      Personally, I think nuclear power is essential, but it should never, ever ever be left in the hands of private profit making companies. They are not set up to manage long term risks adequately. Why should current shareholders care if there is contamination in a hundred or a thosand years' time?

      And so now cue the libertarians claiming that the only reason there was an accident in the first place was because of government interference in the holy Free Market..

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    7. Re:But but but but... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Although the US doesn't in theory have our UK class system *, it is in practice the same problem that a Royal thicko will get a decent degree just for turning up to a college for three years and not actually burning it down. Presumably they have a servant to write their homework for them.

      * In the US privelege is granted more directly by wealth and you don't have the old-fashioned titles, but an aristocracy is an aristocracy.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:But but but but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who will refuse to admit there is any possible downside

      Cue the malcontent erecting a straw-man for ridicule. Pro-nuclear types usually acknowledge the risks and other consequences of nuclear. They conclude these are better than the fossil fuel consequences, either of which are better than energy poverty.

      then obviously nuclear power is completely safe

      Again, you mocking a fiction. The few idiots that make such arguments are of no consequence and your attempt to use these few to belittle others is pathetic.

    9. Re:But but but but... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying he's smart. I'm saying he was smart enough to play to his base. People learn to pronounce words by hearing them. What he heard growing up in his household and in his education was the standard pronunciation. Yeah, he made a lot of gaffes, more than any other President I can remember. Clearly he had a thing about picking the wrong word when speaking extemporaneously and sometimes getting his grammar hopelessly tangled. He wasn't a good speaker. He was clearly not the sharpest analyst to say the least. But he WAS good at making people feel like he was not so much different from them when in fact his upbringing was a LOT different from almost everybody. I think all the evidence points to his choice of how to pronounce nuclear and the Texas drawl as being affected based on his wanting to appeal to the southern and rural Republican base.

  2. Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know, I'm really considering selling this damned Y2K bunker.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by ericloewe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who the hell buys a bunker? Assuming it's in your backyard (what better place to make a personal bunker?), how does the buyer access it?

      Or you could just add a coat of spray-paint, throw some fake blood around, add a few torture instruments, sell some tickets, and have your very own tourist trap.

    2. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by peragrin · · Score: 4, Funny

      why sell it? decorate it and market it to your wife as an mother-in law apartment.

      after she moves in, disconnect the ventilation one night

      Sell tickets to the horror room later.

      That is called win win win.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by vlm · · Score: 2

      Take the twinkies and mt dew out, and call it a tornado shelter. Its the trendy new hot topic here in the midwest ... for the last two centuries or so.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by crazyjj · · Score: 0

      Oooh, libertarians are stupid and slaves.

      No, right now they're just stupid. But give them time.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    5. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by antdude · · Score: 1

      No, keep it. Use it as a movie theater, hideout, etc. :)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    6. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by mellon · · Score: 1

      While you're thinking about selling real estate, consider the resale value of any property within the fallout zone of Fukushima. People will continue to live there, whatever the risks, because they will not be able to leave. Even if this report is correct, which seems unlikely, the long-term fallout from Fukushima will be incredibly costly. These costs need to be insured against; if they were, unsafe reactors would no longer be competitive with renewable sources of energy.

    7. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Or a fire shelter in the west.

    8. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..and I suppose government slavery offered by the other two parties is better? oh wait that's right, libertarians don't support corporate slavery for the same reasons they don't support government slavery! false dichotomies ftl!

    9. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by shiftless · · Score: 1

      Or you could just add a coat of spray-paint, throw some fake blood around, add a few torture instruments, sell some tickets, and have your very own tourist trap.

      Literally.

    10. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I'd hang on to it, if I were you...just sayin'

      MORE INFORMATION

      Fukushima Reactor 4 poses massive global risk (CTV)
      http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20120518/fukushima-dai-ichi-risk-reactor-4-120519/

      The Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Is Far From Over (Huffington Post)
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-alvarez/the-fukushima-nuclear-dis_b_1444146.htmll

      Doomsday scenarios spread about No. 4 reactor at Fukushima plant (The Asahi Shimbun)
      http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201205100051

      Fukushima Daiichi’s Achilles Heel: Unit 4s Spent Fuel? (The Wall Street Journal)
      http://en.rsf.org/bahrain-france-24-correspondent-tortured-30-05-2011,40374.html

      Japan Nuclear Plant May Be Worse Off Than Thought (New York Times)
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/world/asia/inquiry-suggests-worse-damage-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?_r=1

    11. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      it's modded flamebait because it's inflammatory, and provides no reference but the body of text you already linked.

      it sounds like one of my madder friends ranting in his facebook statuses, and is an assault on my eyes.

      that's why it's modded "flamebait".

      give us some backup for this one op-ed by a guy who's vested interests i am too bored to google myself (and hence you should have linked some background on him), otherwise i'll take it as a political (rather than scientific) argument and dismiss it as such.

    12. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      what about safer reactors? it's not unsafe reactors versus renewables (i don't like those odds btw), it's unsafe reactors versus every other form of power generation... including safer reactors which should bloody well have been built before this mess happened.

    13. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      If he lives in a corrupt country, I'll bet he could try ransom demands to pay for his bunker

    14. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      But you're not allowed to construct safer reactors because nucular is dangerous! So we keep running the old, unsafe ones.

    15. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by FirstOne · · Score: 1

      I count three authoritative references in my qoute..

        Just because they're not clickable doesn't mean their not true.

    16. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      libertarians don't support corporate slavery for the same reasons they don't support government slavery

      Libertarians may not "support" corporate slavery, but that's what would be the result of unfettered laissez faire capitalism at this stage in history.

      At least in the Nineteenth century there were some checks and balances from the churches, philosophers, the aristocracy and so on. Nowadays it would be an amoral dog eat dog money grab.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Well if I had the money Silo Home

    18. Re:Weesa all NOT gonna die?!? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      While you're thinking about selling real estate, consider the resale value of any property within the fallout zone of Fukushima.

      Whereas here in the US, we've managed to devastate real estate values for the whole country with no contamination or disaster, other than what Wall Street did.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  3. Chernobyl... by ericloewe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest issue in this whole incident was the comparison with Chernobyl. The slightest mention of that name creates panic. Compare something to it, and you'll get a mass of hysterical people.

    Of course, that is the approach taken by most media these days.

    1. Re:Chernobyl... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The slightest mention of that name creates panic.

      Of course it creates panic, especially if you're big on health and safety regulations. "We want you to clean up the roof of a reactor building that has exploded, with shovels and with no hazmat and radiation protection" has never been high on anyone's list of top job assignments. The Japanese at least use a different approach.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Chernobyl... by camperslo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course, that is the approach taken by most media these days.

      The media in the U.S. provides so little technical detail, it seems useless. How many have reported that all 50 of Japans remaining reactors are currently shut down, or what's gone on towards phasing out reactors in Germany? Shootings, sex scandals, disasters... we get to see that. But where's the depth? How can Democracy function properly if we're not well informed, and half of what we hear is the voice of money talking?

    3. Re:Chernobyl... by Sparticus789 · · Score: 1

      The slightest mention of that name creates panic. Compare something to it, and you'll get a mass of hysterical people.

      Panic = ratings = $$$$ . Media has been dead for years, they are not about honesty or integrity, but about making money.

      --
      sudo make me a sandwich
    4. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How can Democracy function properly if we're not well informed, and half of what we hear is the voice of money talking?

      The same way it functioned 200 years ago. News sources have always been biased and sensationalist, you just have the misfortune of having grown up after the 3 channel "impartial" news era.

      To nearly quote Thomas Jefferson: "The man who does not read a newspaper is better informed than one who does. In that being uninformed is closer to the truth than being misinformed." (from memory, so expect a few errors)

    5. Re:Chernobyl... by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Masses love shootings, sex scandals and disasters. You've got to educate them before you can inform them.

    6. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yet, unlike Chernobyl, Fukushima is still far from over: http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/science-a-environmental/33192-if-fukushima-unit-4-falls-hazardous-radioactive-cesium-137-release-could-be-eight-times-worse-than-chernobyl.html

      It still has potential to be worse.

    7. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      And it is on that ideal that Fox News was started.

    8. Re:Chernobyl... by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      What you do is, you compare it to Chernobyl... then it obviously will never be that bad, so everybody on slashdot can poo poo how only a few people will get cancer. And most will never be able to have concrete proof their screwed up health is related to damage from the accident. And no concrete proof means we should all eat radioactive cereal because it's good for you.

    9. Re:Chernobyl... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who said Chernobyl was over? There are still radioactive sheep in the UK for heavens sake!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects#25_years_after_the_catastrophe

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    10. Re:Chernobyl... by Moheeheeko · · Score: 1
      The defining word in that headline is "IF"

      See the above discussion about sensationalist media.

    11. Re:Chernobyl... by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the phasing down of German reactors - so far, we only shut down export capacity. Germany had a massive overcapacity of nukes that were actually not needed for local production. We are still not a net importer. That's the interesting fact for me - what exactly did they have to run the rundown Isar I block in my backyard all these years? I have not seen any data on the importers of that energy. How they compensate now, I have no idea. Anyway, in the words of a professor of reactor engineering who gave a talk at a meeting I attended last months - the shutdown will have no significant consequences on the European energy grid. According to current projections, part of it will be replaced by renewables, most of it by natural gas. The climate consequences are another matter, naturally. I'd say we put up all the wind, solar and geothermal we can and get our asses into gear building a new reactor generation that does not suck as much as those currently being shut down. The research money for that, interestingly, is still there and largely unaffected by the shutdown - still way too small, though.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    12. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and just wait until my latest story is published: "IF Godzilla rises from the radioactive ashes of Fukushima loss of life could be 9 times worse than King Kong!"

    13. Re:Chernobyl... by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At the levels of radiation involved at Chernobyl, I suspect that no radiation protection that existed at the time would have helped prevent most of the deaths. Traditional hazmat suits predominantly are intended to prevent inhalation and direct contact with radioactive materials when operating in areas of moderate contamination, and to allow for rapid washing of the person after exposure. When you have people dying from exposure to as much as 16 grays, no thin piece of rubber is going to make much of a difference, and even a lead apron will only go so far.

      To be fair, some of the long-term deaths from cancer might have been avoided with better radiation protection, even with the limited technology available at the time, but it would have still been a disaster, and most of the people who died would probably have died anyway. Newer technologies, such as Demron, might have helped, but that wasn't invented until almost 16 years after the Chernobyl disaster.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    14. Re:Chernobyl... by Nova77 · · Score: 3, Informative

      We are still not a net importer

      Is that perhaps because you're extending the life of extremely polluting coal plants?

    15. Re:Chernobyl... by Crosshair84 · · Score: 1

      You seem to forget NBC and the Zimmerman 911 tape.

    16. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, so imagine what 85 times more of Cesium-137 released can do.

    17. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except in Japan earthquakes are more common than in California. For example this was today: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/23/japan-earthquake-may-2012_n_1539769.html

    18. Re:Chernobyl... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Yet, unlike Chernobyl, Fukushima is still far from over

      Chernobyl isn't exactly over either - there's still contamination being found in both farm and game animals. They're also building a new shelter over the reactor as the original one is in danger of collapse. Permanent residence is still prohibited near the reactor complex due to contamination.

    19. Re:Chernobyl... by mad+flyer · · Score: 0

      Yea, comparison with Chernobyl were totally unnecessary. Chernobyl was a limited release from a plant operating a residual power (around 7%). All population was evacuated the next day from aroun d the plant and after one month a full concrete sarcophagus was build to contain any new release.

      While in Fukushima... despite all "speedy" wind data information, nobody was evacuated from under the plume. The reactor were at production level power and attempting to scram, damaged already by the quake (who was much lower at the location of the plant than in the ocean and well within the expected norm) the tsunami just ruined any chances of quick cold shutdown. Several days into the crisis nobody knew what to do or what was happening. Briliant propagandist from the governement are still parading saying that stress in more dangerous than cesium137 escaping from the plant. CHILDREN from nearby cities are used to clean up the contaminated soil (because, might as well go FULL RETARD). They now want to incinerate radioactive debris all over japan as sign of solidarity. CHERRY ON THE CAKE the spend fuel pools are still FULL, barely cooled and no longer able to withstand anykind of new earthquake.

      So enjoy your "nuclear is cheap and safe" while it last, because 1 year later... nothing is over...

      FULL blow by blow account of the event for the last year here on an expat forum:

      http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8423

    20. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are talking about long time effects, I'm saying that the Fukushima site is still an extreme hazard. There are still fuel rods (especially in unit 4) and when exposed could start a fire that is not possible to put down by water and could release as much as 85 times more Cesium-137 to the air as Chernobyl.

      The danger is that those fuel rods are still trapped there and if the base breaks (due to strong earthquake) and water drains all hell is going to happen. Also, unlike Chernobyl Japan constantly has earthquakes, today they had 6.1.

    21. Re:Chernobyl... by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

      How can Democracy function properly if we're not well informed, and half of what we hear is the voice of money talking?

      It remembers me of the 1984 book. The totalitarian government made sure that newspapers contained nothing but astrology, sports and crime...

    22. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In terms of total radiation release and the type of radioactive material released, it's pretty different. The core didn't explode, fragment, and toss bits of burning, radioactive graphite all over the place and practically every isotope related to fission reactions into the surrounding area. Fukushima was mostly volatiles, cesium and iodine being the worst of them, and a lot of radioactive steam and water. The containment failed, but not nearly as badly as Chernobyl. The cores, while melted, are mostly in the spots where they were originally, at the bottom of the containment vessels. But you still have to be impressed that 3 reactors managed to melt down at almost the same time. It's like three parallel experiments, all of them various degrees of failures (that they melted down) and successes (that the core material still mostly stayed in there). It's going to mean some pretty hard lessons.

    23. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tepco compares the Fukushima disaster to Chernobyl:

      http://enenews.com/just-in-tepco-estimates-total-cesium-137-release-from-fukushima-at-360000-terabecquerels-4-times-higher-than-chernobyls-85000-terabecquerels

    24. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yea, comparison with Chernobyl were totally unnecessary. Chernobyl was a limited release from a plant operating a residual power (around 7%).

      Chernobly was not a limited release. Saying the core was at 7% power is meaningless in an RBMK reactor because of the positive void coefficient. The RMBK reactor is designed to output about 1.5 GW of power. The last reading on the Chernobly controls was 33 GW of thermal power. What happened at Chernobly was the cooling was flash boiled pockets of steam (voids) in the cooling pipes. The positive void coefficient means that when voids form, the reaction speeds up. This increased reaction rate caused more voids to form which caused the reaction to speed up even more. This positive feedback loop continued until the steam pressure caused a steam explosion. Chunks of the reactor were thrown outside the building through the gapping hole in the roof. The reactor core was actually exposed to air. You can see in photographs the biological shield sitting on its side. The residual heat of the reactor continued to meltdown through several layers of concrete eventually solidifying in the basement of reactor building. The graphite moderator, used in the RMBK design, was also on fire spewing large amounts of radio active ash in the atmosphere.

    25. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the Japanese government and Tepco are only interested in hiding the facts about what is really happening,
      comparing it with the worst we have seen so far is not a bad idea.

      While the news in Japan totally ignore the real consequences of the radioactive fallout, it
      is a great thing that at least some people seem to be concerned.
      At least all of those parents of those thousands of kids that suddenly started to have bleeding noses in the Fukushima area
      are starting to figure out that what the state television NHK is broadcasting is nothing but propaganda to keep the people misinformed.

    26. Re:Chernobyl... by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      we need more accidents to compare to :)

      otherwise we'll keep using chernobyl and TMI as anchor points (with anything that happens quite likely to be "somewhere between the two").

      TMI was a gassy fart and chernobyl was a complete disaster of unimaginable stupidity, and possibly the catalyst for the fall of the soviet union.

      it would be difficult to do worse than chernobyl without specifically designing a reactor to blow up in the most awful way possible.

    27. Re:Chernobyl... by khallow · · Score: 1

      We also have to keep in mind the evacuation of civilians and public warning (including other countries affected by the fallout). Here, the USSR was criminally negligent. Some of those deaths could have been prevented merely by not having people there.

    28. Re:Chernobyl... by eealex · · Score: 2

      Thank you very much for the nice quote from Thomas Jefferson. Just google it and it's probably "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers." http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_jefferson_7.html

    29. Re:Chernobyl... by DemoLiter3 · · Score: 1

      Only the reality is now that Germany currently imports nuclear energy like crazy from France and Czech

    30. Re:Chernobyl... by wrook · · Score: 1

      What's rather bizarre is that when they *did* report that the reactors are currently shut down, they said that there were no plans to restart them. So I went and checked. The Hamaoka nuclear power plant down the road from me is indeed planning on restarting. TEPCO (currently in the process of restructuring) also recently submitted it's plan to the Japanese government for future operations. It hinges on a 10% increase in electricity rates *and* the restarting of several nuclear reactors. Whether or not these reactors will actually restart is a matter for the local governments where the reactors reside, and it is probably unlikely that permission will be given. However, that is not yet determined.

      The biggest thing I learned from the Fukushima distaster is just how bad the media is at getting facts right. I no longer trust *any* news outlet any more...

    31. Re:Chernobyl... by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      It's like I heard a professor say to a bunch of reporters once: "I enjoy reading newspapers very much, they contain a lot of interesting information. It's just a shame that whenever they write something about my areas of expertise, they always seem to get it wrong."

      Ask anyone who knows anything about anything, and they will confirm this.

    32. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      We also have to keep in mind the evacuation of civilians and public warning (including other countries affected by the fallout). Here, the USSR was criminally negligent. Some of those deaths could have been prevented merely by not having people there.

      That's a total and undiluted bullshit. If anything, evacuation was excessive and covered areas with no risks for the population living there. Opportunist politicians were riding the wave of panic while all the work was done by others, usually misdirected and distracted by politicians' demands for sweeping and grandiose actions.

      In reality, most work was done by health and environmental safety services that sifted through agricultural products, soil and water samples, prevented contaminated products from reaching consumers, determined areas unsafe for agriculture and collected disease statistics that ended up showing no noticeable harm for general population in the end. But you, shitheads, don't talk about those people. You would rather denigrate everyone and call them criminals -- I guess, including myself, as I made some (minor) contribution to those efforts.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    33. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      No. Just no.

      Someone would have to visit Pripyat with a truck, pick up few tons of contaminated soil, bring it to UK, and smear it those sheep to get anything noticeable. If there are radioactive sheep in UK, it's from someone in UK mishandling the radioactive materials.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    34. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Just shut up about your positive void coefficient. Those reactors operated before and after Chernobyl for decades, and only once, through extreme stupidity and disregard for all specifications, a bunch of idiots managed to cause a disaster. I can assure you that the same kind of idiots would cause a disaster on a reactor with positive void coefficient, negative void coefficient, pebble bed reactor, gas-firing power plant, coal power plant, hydroelectric power plant, AC transmission line, DC transmission line, steel mill, railroad or a sewer system. That's the nature of idiots around machinery.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    35. Re:Chernobyl... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The biggest issue in this whole incident was the comparison with Chernobyl. The slightest mention of that name creates panic. Compare something to it, and you'll get a mass of hysterical people.

      Of course, that is the approach taken by most media these days.

      Oh fuck off. So everyone should just agree that Chernobyl was a big one-off mistake and not mention it again?

      Luckily, the media aren't owned by the fucking nuclear power lobby.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    36. Re:Chernobyl... by khallow · · Score: 1

      That's a total and undiluted bullshit.

      Look, it's well known that the Soviets sat on the Chernobyl accident as long as they could. Spatially, the evacuations and similar exposure mitigation efforts may well have been grossly excessive (especially in the rest of Europe). But the ones that mattered weren't timely. For example, the nearby town of Prypiat was evacuated roughly a day and a half after the accident started.

      In comparison, the evacuation zone around the Fukushima reactors was declared on the same day of the earthquake, before any radiation release. I don't know how effective or prompt the actual evacuation was, but they at least moved quickly to start it.

      In reality, most work was done by health and environmental safety services that sifted through agricultural products, soil and water samples, prevented contaminated products from reaching consumers, determined areas unsafe for agriculture and collected disease statistics that ended up showing no noticeable harm for general population in the end.

      In reality, you are equating analysis after the fact to preventive measures.

      You would rather denigrate everyone and call them criminals -- I guess, including myself, as I made some (minor) contribution to those efforts.

      You were part of the decision to hide Chernobyl for more than a couple of days and downplay it substantially when it was publicly announced? Of course, you should be tried and sentenced if that conditional is true.

    37. Re:Chernobyl... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It's like I heard a professor say to a bunch of reporters once: "I enjoy reading newspapers very much, they contain a lot of interesting information. It's just a shame that whenever they write something about my areas of expertise, they always seem to get it wrong."

      Ask anyone who knows anything about anything, and they will confirm this.

      The newspaper I read (Guardian) is very good at correcting any factual mistakes, which are relatively few anyway. They have to present a huge variety of subjects to non-experts, inevitably there will be simplifications, but this is not the same as getting things wrong.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    38. Re:Chernobyl... by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Just to give one example, whenever an airplane makes an emergency landing at Brussels Airport, the Belgian newspapers will invariably say that it first circled over the North Sea to dump fuel. Every single time. Even if it's a 737 which doesn't have a fuel dumping system. They're just making it up.

    39. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he thinks the conversation was about fukushima, and he probably donated about $10 to the relief effort.

    40. Re:Chernobyl... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. At Chernobyl NPP there was poor availability of radiation measuring equipment initially. The first responders had little clue as to the situation, and little communication. These were the ones that took the really high multi-gray doses in minutes or so.

      Once the situation was better understood and military command and control was in place, personnel protective measures usually were based on limiting duration of the exposure to the core pieces and direct approaches. The 'Bio Robots' for example would only run into exposed areas for as little as one minute. You do see these individuals wearing lead X-ray smocks, and particulate / vapor resistant NBC garments and breathing apparatus during their sorties, thankfully.

      From what I see of the later cleanup 'liquidators' it seems like protective measures varied from reasonable to lackadaisical. Mostly dust/particulate measures, and frequently workers with no breathing protection can be seen in footage.

    41. Re:Chernobyl... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Germany has no extremely polluting coal plants. Exhaust is filterde since the late 70s ....

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    42. Re:Chernobyl... by Nova77 · · Score: 1

      Compared to *any* other common energy source, coal is by far the worse.
      Oh, and a quick google search returned this. Apparently, filter or not, Germany still made into the top 10.

    43. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      I worked in one of the organizations that performed food and environmental safety measurements.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    44. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Look, it's well known that the Soviets sat on the Chernobyl accident as long as they could.

      It is "well known" among writers and readers of anti-Soviet propaganda.

      In reality, they simply did not know what exactly to report, because without measurements, it would be interpreted as "everyone, RUN!!!" by at least half of the country. They could organize initial measurements better -- I ended up getting results a week after the disaster with homemade ionizing radiation meter before the government had said anything definite -- but it was the usual incompetence and lack of equipment that most people in government didn't even know how to locate.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    45. Re:Chernobyl... by khallow · · Score: 1

      It is "well known" among writers and readers of anti-Soviet propaganda.

      It's well known among a far larger group than that. I think it's a pity you feel the need to make excuses here. But bottom line is that actions speak louder than words.

    46. Re:Chernobyl... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      But bottom line is that actions speak louder than words.

      What actions, and what do you know about them other than what your propaganda-filled media told you? Did you measure the contamination? Have you seen what was announced and when? I did.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  4. Like not knowing is better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not being able to say for sure why one has cancer or some birth defects doesn't make it any less sad or less of a burden on families and healthcare.

    No doubt many of the cancers we've had in the U.S. that were a result of the nuclear testing era weren't identified either. Maybe the nuclear deterrent saved us, but it wasn't without a price.

    Say, why did the head of the NRC resign? Bad choices with Yucca Mountain? A bit slow to deal with some vulnerability? Someone under his desk? Poor health or another personal issue?

    1. Re:Like not knowing is better? by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's some tasty FUD right there, yep...

      Not being able to say for sure why one has cancer or some birth defects doesn't make it any less sad or less of a burden on families and healthcare.

      Neither does knowing for certain. Cancer and birth defects are terrible illnesses, but the radiation levels from Fukushima are so low as to get lost in the background noise of, say, radiation from a nearby kumquat. There's no way to say the cancer was caused by Fukushima, and no way to say it wasn't caused by a nice sunny day.

      No doubt many of the cancers we've had in the U.S. that were a result of the nuclear testing era weren't identified either.

      Given that cancer cases have been recorded since before any nuclear tests, and all nuclear tests and fallout have been recorded, it's actually possible to figure out the probable death tolls from testing. Spoiler: they're somewhere between "nobody" and "fewer than have died this year from cholera".

      Maybe the nuclear deterrent saved us, but it wasn't without a price.

      Of course not. The United States dropped a 15-kiloton bomb on Hiroshima, killing 125,000 people. A few days later, a 21-kiloton bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, killing about 45,000. That's around 170,000 people who died for the "deterrent". Does it really matter that those people died from a nuclear bomb, or would it somehow be better if we'd dropped a ton of regular ol' incendiary bombs, then kept fighting the war for a few more years?

      Say, why did the head of the NRC resign? Bad choices with Yucca Mountain? A bit slow to deal with some vulnerability? Someone under his desk? Poor health or another personal issue?

      Maybe it was death threats from anti-nuclear Luddites, or, simply exhaustion from the pressure of being a public figure, or annoyance with the continual ignorance of the masses fighting against one of the most promising technologies of the 20th century.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:Like not knowing is better? by camperslo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's no point in mass fear, the illnesses and deaths are largely spread out over both time and distance and as such pass by mostly without mention. But the deaths are still real.. The people that were alive between 1948 and 1970 (the period of exposure) are/were the primary ones affected. I've known a couple of people that turned out to be from the midwest (one of the harder hit regions from Nevada testing) who had leukemia (they're dead now). Back in the day we didn't know any better. There's a reason we eventually did away with atmospheric testing and have sought to avoid additional contamination.
      The incident in Japan has left much of the nation much like the U.S. is, with "background" levels elevated. (The U.S. "background" levels are about double what is seen in someplace like Australia. Except for the area hit in WWII, Japan was mostly low too.) Although a small percentage of the population is affected, the U.S. certainly has/will see some additional cancer cases from Chernobyl, the Japanese accident in 1981 (accident very well covered up, a sodium reactor leaked for months with hundred of workers exposed beyond normal limits, and was measurable in the U.S.) and later from the events of last year. Beware of "science" saying that low level radiation is good. It seems that the people doing those studies have also "shown" that mice do better with low level doses of all sorts of other nasties too. Who would have known how wonderful toxins are? (call it science concocted for defense attorneys) Absorbed like calcium, baby-boomers to this day have strontium-90 in their teeth and bones.

      Certainly the risk varied considerable, and like fallout from accidents, the hotspots depended on combinations of timing, the wind, rainfall, and what one ate. For Iodine-131 there have been detailed estimates. If you were a female born in the 50's in someplace like Nebraska, and drank a fair amount of goats milk from animals that were pasture fed, the risk was (and for survivors still is) very significant. Risk was less for those drinking less, it wasn't quite as high with cows, and it was lower from animals fed hay indoors. (A lesson from that is to have a couple of months feed hay in reserve to reduce the exposure via milk during the time it takes for I-131 to go through enough half-lives)

      It's only for I-131, and then only for the Nevada tests (other sources not included), but have some fun with the risk calculator if you were around back in the day.

      https://ntsi131.nci.nih.gov/

      The rest can laugh it off I suppose. The Japanese fishermen that can back to Japan with serious radiation exposure from the South Pacific tests did inspire the Godzilla and friends monster movies after all, so something good came of it.

    3. Re:Like not knowing is better? by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Although a small percentage of the population is affected, the U.S. certainly has/will see some additional cancer cases from Chernobyl[...]

      Yeah, from the unlucky people who were in Europe at the time. You can't seriously believe that even Chernobyl would cause any significant increase in radiation on the other side of the Atlantic + Europe?

    4. Re:Like not knowing is better? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Spoiler: they're somewhere between "nobody" and "fewer than have died this year from cholera"."

      Cholera had 202,407 cases with 5,259 deaths in 2006 alone, so it's a few less? What a relief.
      http://www.who.int/vaccine_research/diseases/diarrhoeal/en/index3.html

    5. Re:Like not knowing is better? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Of course not. The United States dropped a 15-kiloton bomb on Hiroshima, killing 125,000 people. A few days later, a 21-kiloton bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, killing about 45,000. That's around 170,000 people who died for the "deterrent". Does it really matter that those people died from a nuclear bomb, or would it somehow be better if we'd dropped a ton of regular ol' incendiary bombs, then kept fighting the war for a few more years?

      No, if we'd firebombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we'd probably have killed a lot more people than were killed by the nuclear blasts - hills can protect you from a nuke blast if you're in their shadow, but not so much if you're being chased by a firestorm.

      Note that Tokyo suffered a million-plus casualties from a couple-three firebombings...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:Like not knowing is better? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      so it's a few less? What a relief.

      Actually, he said "fewer than", not "a few less". They mean different things.

      As examples, 5200 is both "fewer than" and "a few less" than 5259. On the other hand, 2 is "fewer than" but NOT "a few less" than 5259.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:Like not knowing is better? by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      Even in Europe, it seems the risk is small. I was in East-Berlin at the time, watching the May 1st parade (study trip). We all got checked at the border when returning 2 days later, but to our dismay none of the classmates were glowing in the dark.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    8. Re:Like not knowing is better? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      But the deaths are still real.. The people that were alive between 1948 and 1970 (the period of exposure) are/were the primary ones affected. I've known a couple of people that turned out to be from the midwest (one of the harder hit regions from Nevada testing) who had leukemia (they're dead now).

      You seem to have forgotten to prove that the leukemia deaths you mentioned were caused by any nuclear activity.

      I mean, I know people who have died of cancer too. But there's absolutely no evidence that their cancer was caused by nuclear testing, nuclear reactors, nuclear anything....

      It's only for I-131, and then only for the Nevada tests (other sources not included), but have some fun with the risk calculator if you were around back in the day.

      Fascinating calculator. According to it, I've gotten more radiation from flying around the country than from fallout, in spite of living in the area where such things were meaningful.

      Also, my risk of getting thyroid cancer is essentially indistinguishable from that of someone who was never exposed to any fallout...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    9. Re:Like not knowing is better? by camperslo · · Score: 2

      Cancer and birth defects are terrible illnesses, but the radiation levels from Fukushima are so low as to get lost in the background noise of, say, radiation from a nearby kumquat.

      Do kumquat trees draw cesium or some other isotope from the soil like sunflowers do? Sunflower seeds often show radiation. They were even testing them in Japan as a possible measure to help clean the soil, but from what I read they didn't remove enough to be useful, and the plants themselves needed special disposal afterwards.

      The U.S. levels in the air were low, yes (expect very few cases of lung cancer from that compared to other sources such as decaying radon coming from our soil, building materials, and in water supplies - especially in Texas), but there were much higher concentrations seen in some rainfall. Although not reported on the EPA site, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo had both Iodine-131 and Cesium 134/137 showing up in the milk from the university dairy unit pasture-fed cows. Some places in the U.S. had rainfall testing 1000 times the FDA allowable limit for drinking water. Even the Cal Poly milk was above the amount allowed in drinking water. At least I-131 doesn't last long. They quit showing test results for S.L.O. milk, so it isn't apparent just how much of the cesium present had been directly deposited on the grass the cows ate versus how much was absorbed through the soil. The amounts are not huge, but whatever is left in the soil is going to be there for decades. Average figures tend to hide the fact that there are hot spots, some seen even on the east coast. Most of the radiation that caused cancer in Sweden from Chernobyl is believed to have been the result of what was in rainfall on a particular day.

      If you look at cancer reporting in California tabulated over the years and broken out by group, there are a couple of cancers rising significantly particularly in women, and the curves are getting steeper. Yes, the total percentage of the population affected is small, but people are being affected. (The timing of the rises would correlate with Chernobyl as the cause). The fact that there is some radiation from the soil and space (even brief spikes during solar flares), doesn't make radiation any more desirable.

      I actually thought the head of the NRC, Chairman Gregory Jaczko, had recently done a reasonable job, but I'd like to know more. Not everyone that has concerns about nuclear power or feels that low-level radiation is still worth minimizing is anti-nuclear. Don't discredit citizens with legitimate concerns, throwing out utter nonsense about threats. Talk about pure FUD...

      Republican Congressman Lee Terry of Nebraska had a few things to say, but was exceptionally vague. It's hard to trust much during an election year, especially attacks, but the fact that Jaczko resigned seems to validate that there was an issue. It seems to be a combination of management style and selectively withholding information to get his way. We should demand transparency, even if some of the details require educating people to keep the public calm. He does deserve credit for the U.S. being more on target than what Japanese officials were saying as to the (greater) area that was a high risk place to be. A campaign of lies, denying the consequences of releases, seems a big mistake to me. Only through honestly facing important issues can we hope to effectively manage them.

      http://leeterry.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1712
      http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2115375,00.html

    10. Re:Like not knowing is better? by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      Maybe it was death threats from anti-nuclear Luddites, or, simply exhaustion from the pressure of being a public figure, or annoyance with the continual ignorance of the masses fighting against one of the most promising technologies of the 20th century.

      Thank you for saying this. I've been trying to get this point across to people until I'm blue in the face.

      Fact: More people die due to coal and oil powered plants than nuclear ones. In fact, it's about 915 times more dangerous than nuclear power, even accounting for their respective percentages of world power. In actuality, it's 161 deaths per TWH for coal, and 0.04 for nuclear. Not to mention the pollutants that don't kill human beings, but hurt

      Fact: One day the coal and oil are going to run out.

      So what else are we going to use? Nothing touches nuclear power in terms of efficiency, cleanliness, and viability right now, yet this whole Fukishima disaster (note that it was caused by an record-setting earthquake, and a tsunami which exceeded the safety precautions in place. Still, none by radiation which is the only "scary" aspect of nuclear power, really. Power plants can't explode. And we have learned a LOT since Chernobyl. Just look at Fukishima. After all was said & done, it wasn't that bad as far as the power plants reactors' are concerned.

      Radiation is fear-mongered to death, demonized by the fossil fuel industry, and better for all of us than it.

      --

      Question everything

    11. Re:Like not knowing is better? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      False dichotomy. You could have dropped the bombs somewhere unpopulated to demonstrate their power. That would have wasted a golden opportunity to study their effects on human beings and cities though.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:Like not knowing is better? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      One is also a sarcastic way of saying "I'm not sure of the number, and I don't have the time to correlate the research others have done again, but last I checked the estimate was on the order of four digits, so I'd like to emphasize that there are much more severe risks that are more easily mitigated by comparing it to the worldwide death rate of something nastier."

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    13. Re:Like not knowing is better? by camperslo · · Score: 1

      So what else are we going to use? Nothing touches nuclear power in terms of efficiency, cleanliness, and viability right now

      Right now? Except for possible willingness to cut consumption quickly, most other changes, even new reactors using existing designs, take substantial time to build.

      The viability of various alternatives varies regionally. Being in an active volcanic zone, Japan will likely be able to develop a considerable amount of geothermal power. Some geothermal power is already being generated there from hot springs.

      Iceland has plans underway to be completely free of fossil fuel use, without using nuclear at all.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Iceland

      I have what I think is a break-through idea for saving energy, but am not sure where to go with it.

  5. Spock is OK? by MikeMacK · · Score: 3, Funny

    Jim, I think you'd better get down here.... Better hurry...

  6. one in every crowd by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tatsuhiko Kodama, head of the radioisotope centre at the University of Tokyo and an outspoken critic of the government, questions the reports’ value. “I think international organizations should stop making hasty reports based on very short visits to Japan that don’t allow them to see what is happening locally,” he says.

    --
    insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    1. Re:one in every crowd by ericloewe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What're they supposed to do? Stay there for 20+ years, asking every person every day: "How do you feel? Got any tumors? I know a guy who'll scoop them out if you agree to be a lab rat. Call this number, ask for Cave, and tell him Bill sent you."

    2. Re:one in every crowd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      This is really really bad. Anyone who has been reading or watching Arnie Gundersen (fairewinds.com) would likely come to the same conclusion.
      1. do not eat seafood
      2. the soil in Tokyo would be considered toxic waste in the US.
      3. if there is large aftershock near unit 4. An extinction event is a possibility.

    3. Re:one in every crowd by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      anyone remember Cave Story? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E05GxrxJ53A

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    4. Re:one in every crowd by vlm · · Score: 1

      Arnie Gundersen

      I wikipedia'd him and it reads as very PR crankish.

      Wiki informed me his most famous scaremongering PR campaigns have revolved around these three "discoveries" passed off as engineering insights we should be terrified of:

      1) If the process of rusting a hole in something happens, then, there exists a hole in it and holes are bad.
      2) If one liquid leaks out of a hole, then, in theory, another liquid could leak out of a hole, even if only the first previously mentioned liquid has ever leaked out of the hole.
      3) If one complicated machine broke down in a complicated way, then, in theory, a different complicated machine could break down in a different complicated way.

      I'm not a nukeEng but just using my low cunning and gut instincts as a /.er, but I think those are known problems with known solutions and his primary contribution to the debate Might be fearmongering and making money via PR mostly using his ancient credentials as an "appeal to authority" disinfo campaign.

      I'm not feeling the education here. Now to be fair it Might be that the wiki article is awful, and the guy is actually producing insightful work and new results. But, probably not.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:one in every crowd by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      An extinction event is a possibility.

      Care to qualify that? It's always a possibility. There might be a rock the size of Australia screaming towards us at near-cas I type this.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    6. Re:one in every crowd by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Epidemiology is not very hard for many cash poor nations to try and set up.
      Some parts of the world, e.g. ex Soviet nations don't seem to like/support the idea very much, but it should be very easy to do in Japan and the areas around Japan.
      So its as easy as selecting a wide pool of people and testing them at set intervals over many years.
      Counties around the world do it all the time with generations of results in known populations e.g. food, cancer, twin studies.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  7. I'm having trouble believing anything they say now by random+coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After all the lies during the events I have serious doubts about anything coming from official sources there. Its like listing to Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and thinking "oh yes he has to be telling the truth this time".


    "There is little health risks from the Fukashima reactor anamoly"


    This is really disgusting because it damages the viability of nuclear power, and that is a resource we should be expanding and modernizing and not getting rid of.

  8. I'd take that with a truckload of salt by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's been so much lying going on about the whole incident that I just can't believe anything being said about it anymore. If I lived anywhere close to it I'd demand a real investigation, not the usual "foreign 'experts' come, do a tour about the Tokio night clubs and write what they're supposed to" kind.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:I'd take that with a truckload of salt by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Tatsuhiko Kodama, head of the radioisotope centre at the University of Tokyo and an outspoken critic of the government, questions the reports’ value. “I think international organizations should stop making hasty reports based on very short visits to Japan that don’t allow them to see what is happening locally,” he says."

      Agree.

    2. Re:I'd take that with a truckload of salt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      truckload of *Iodized* salt.

      This is clearly propaganda, thinly disguised and designed for the crowd who gets their news from late-night TV talk-show hosts.

    3. Re:I'd take that with a truckload of salt by crazyjj · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the environmentalist wackos who show up to find and publicize a nuclear disaster, whether it actually exists or not.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    4. Re:I'd take that with a truckload of salt by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 1

      Everything I've read here has been consistent with previous statements. What is it exactly that you feel they could be lying about?

      The problem they're addressing with this article is that two control room workers didn't take their potassium iodate tablets, which means they received a much higher dose than they otherwise would have. Their dose is high enough that there's a chance that they would experience the effects of radiation poisoning. But they didn't.
      Aside from that, their lifetime chance of developing cancer increases from 40% to 45% (back of envelope calculation. Could be wrong. Assuming 8% increase risk per Sv). That's not something you can notice... If the other workers, or the general public have an increased risk of developing cancer, those risks are also too small for anyone to notice. I think that's all they're saying.

    5. Re:I'd take that with a truckload of salt by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Lump them together with the 'experts' and get rid of them together, maybe then we can get some sensible answers.

      I neither want fear mongering nor pacification. I just want to know what's going on. Just present what's going on (and please not a "let's measure in a few thousand spots and report only what fits our view", radiation is rarely distributing evenly, and you cannot express in a single digit whether or not there is some danger in living in a certain area).

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Spent fuel pools still a risk by bhlowe · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Mainchi reported on Monday: The storage pool in the No. 4 reactor building has a total of 1,535 fuel rods, or 460 tons of nuclear fuel, in it. The 7-story building itself has suffered great damage, with the storage pool barely intact on the building’s third and fourth floors. The roof has been blown away. If the storage pool breaks and runs dry, the nuclear fuel inside will overheat and explode, causing a massive amount of radioactive substances to spread over a wide area. Both the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and French nuclear energy company Areva have warned about this risk."

    1. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by Microlith · · Score: 1

      GJ with no links there bub. Mind following up with some?

    2. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by bhlowe · · Score: 2

      Here is one link.

    3. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by vlm · · Score: 1

      The roof has been blown away. If the storage pool breaks and runs dry, the nuclear fuel inside will overheat and explode

      Those two lines don't go together logically. They got savaged because they were not ventilating the overheating pools and reactors, so H2 built up and popped each building like popcorn. There were zerohedge guys (yeah... but where else do we have free media, anyway?) crying to crack the other buildings before they explode, but no, they just kept popping. If they had popped a hole in undamaged roofs, they would not have been able to accumulate H2, leading to an inability to blow up. Management paralysis. Then again conditions were pretty bad... USA people forget than the wave killed a zillion people right there around the plant.

      Intentionally blowing a hole in the ceiling is admitting defeat, making it look bad, losing face, whatever. Yet not doing it seemingly inevitably led to explosions blowing the roof off. No more roof means no more H2 means no more explosions.

      The other problem is you can run off the shelf H2 combiners given a little electricity and stuff... which they didn't have. I assume they've booted those dudes back up. So you need a total, long term coolant failure, AND the roof needs to be rebuilt airtight, AND the H2 recombiners all have to fail ... all three issues at once, any two won't work. Seems unlikely.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 2

      This is total nonsense. While overheating and fire is a risk with fuel freshly removed from an operating reactor--after it has been sitting this long, nothing catastrophic will happen. The fuel rods will get a bit hotter than usual, though nothing will burn.

      That said, fuel should be moved to dry cask storage or further reprocessed in a timely manner. Stockpiling huge quantities of spent fuel in pools is not a good idea, as every time you add hot fuel, that does introduce a window of danger for about six months. Outside of that window though, the pools could be drained without consequence.

    5. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Okay. I read Mainichi nearly every day, I've yet to see this. Both the japanese and the english versions. Now it's possible during my last 3mo where out in the middle of asshole nowhere Canada with limited internet access that the story was posted. But I can't find it on their site.

      The one article I did read that was about something like that came from one of the anti-nuke groups trying to string up more anti-nuke hysteria and that was back in February of this year. And it was in their perspectives section(aka editorials).

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by jrumney · · Score: 2

      The fuel is not all spent. Some reactors at the plant were offline for routine maintenance at the time of the quake, and their fuel was being temporarily stored in the spent fuel pool of reactor 4. I don't know what effect that has on your "window of danger for about six months", if any. According to a report on NHK a few months back, the crane for moving fuel in and out of the spent fuel pool was damaged in the earthquake, and radioactivity levels are not expected to be low enough for it to be safely repaired until the end of 2013. Current status of the reactor 4 building is that it can still withstand an earthquake up to magnitude 7, but has already sustained enough damage that anything beyond that could have severe consequences. An "expert" on that program claimed that the risk of an aftershock greater than magnitude 7 before the crane can be repaired is 80%. I don't know how accurate all this information is, but I expect NHK vets the credentials of their commentators a lot better than Slashdot does.

    7. Re:Spent fuel pools still a risk by wrook · · Score: 1

      Followed the trail here: http://mainichi.jp/english/english/perspectives/news/20120402p2a00m0na002000c.html

      And, yes, it is an editorial.

  10. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by DaMattster · · Score: 2

    I am too. There was a lot of radiation released by Fukushima. Don't tell everyone to panic but don't lie and, in effect, tell everyone they are going to be okay either. It is a known fact that gamma radiation destroys DNA. I think one can link some cancers to gamma ray exposure.

  11. Hello, credibility? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    Japanese officials have been lying through their Orwellian teeth since day one. When I see these guys pulling some stunts like guzzling a pint of well water, having their kids play in the local playground, and building sandcastles on the beach I'll believe them.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  12. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by geekymachoman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, it's modern times. Anyway... when I read news I try to get both alternative and mainstream sources covered. I reckon, as the quote goes... truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Having said that, I read a lot recently about fukushima reactor #4. Here's a snippet:

    [quote]
    The troubled Reactor 4 at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is at the centre of this potential catastrophe.

    Reactor 4 -- and to a lesser extent Reactor 3 -- still hold large quantities of cooling waters surrounding spent nuclear fuel, all bound by a fragile concrete pool located 30 metres above the ground, and exposed to the elements.

    A magnitude 7 or 7.5 earthquake would likely fracture that pool, and disaster would ensue, says Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer with Fairewinds Energy Education who has visited the site.

    The 1,535 spent fuel rods would become exposed to the air and would likely catch fire, with the most-recently added fuel rods igniting first.

    The incredible heat generated from that blaze, Gundersen said, could then ignite the older fuel in the cooling pool, causing a massive oxygen-eating radiological fire that could not be extinguished with water.
    [/quote]

    So what happened until now I guess shouldn't be the focus of media attention, but rather how to deal with reactor #4 - of course, if these statements are true.
    Here's url to the full article:
    http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120518/fukushima-dai-ichi-risk-reactor-4-120519/

  13. Ditto For The B.P. Gulf Oil Spill ( +4, Helpful ) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, be happy.

      Yours In Novosibirsk,
        K. Trout, C.T.O.

  14. Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by schwit1 · · Score: 0

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2011/04/09/radiation-detected-in-drinking-water-in-13-more-us-cities-cesium-137-in-vermont-milk/

    4/11 - Radiation from Japan has been detected in drinking water in 13 more American cities, and cesium-137 has been found in American milk—in Montpelier, Vermont—for the first time since the Japan nuclear disaster began, according to data released by the Environmental Protection Agency

    1. Re:Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by Microlith · · Score: 2

      1. That article is over a year old, rendering any discussion about Iodine moot.
      2. Even a year ago, the levels were well below EPA standards.
      3. Do they even do regular testing of milk in Vermont for radiation?

      Please, if you're going try and make a point then you should try to be a little less "chicken little" about it.

    2. Re:Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...released by the EPA

      Leftie tree-huggers. You might as well ask Greenpeace. Everyone knows the EPA are biased towards valuing the environment more than profits so anything they say is suspect.

    3. Re:Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "3. Do they even do regular testing of milk in Vermont for radiation?"

      Each time the cows glow in the dark.

    4. Re:Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      Over a year old. Yes, right after the reactors blew up, putting any discussion about Iodine precisely in the center of the bullseye.

      And no, they weren't below EPA standards, they were at the last-gasp threshold before they started collecting the milk as radioactive waste.

      No, but the detectors at the local plant started shrieking. Mind you, these are only supposed to do that when there is a local leak. As in, right there, at the plant itself. The fact that the contamination made it all the way across the Pacific, across the entire United States, all the way to Vermont should scare the bejabbers out you.

      Iodine-131 has a half-life of 8 days. It takes upper atmosphere air approximately 10-12 days to get from Japan to Vermont, assuming an average air speed of 150mph at a distance of 3000 miles, based on a polar route for the jet stream.

      There should not BE any I-131 in the milk. It should not have survived the trip. But there is I-131 in the milk. Along with Cs-137. Do you know where I-131 comes from? It comes from Uranium and Plutonium.

      So. Either we've got Plutonium and/or Uranium fuel raining down on us, and nobody is telling us? Or the amount of I-131 that was ejected is so massive, that it was able to not only survive the trip, but also be detected in the milk after an additional 3-4 days once the alarm was sounded.

      I think your chicken is cooked.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    5. Re:Because Cs137 is showing up in Vermont milk? by Solandri · · Score: 2

      A banana gives off about 15 Bq of radiation, or about 400 picocuries.

      The article you've liked to is talking about quantities of Cs-137 giving off about 3 picocuries per liter of milk. A banana is literally over 100x more radioactive.

      The high reading of 390 picocuries of I-131 per liter of rainwater a year ago means drinking a liter of that "contaminated" rainwater carries pretty much the same radiation risk as eating a banana.

  15. Ostriches by sarku · · Score: 1

    http://enenews.com/former-fukushima-daiichi-worker-i-believe-the-country-will-be-evacuated-if-the-no-4-spent-fuel-pool-collapses-should-be-hundreds-or-thousands-of-people-working-furiously-every-day

    It blows my mind how many "scientifically" minded people there are on Slashdot, and yet, so many people who are scared to think outside of the box. I guess that's the problem with overspecialization.

  16. XKCD by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...already covered this

    Nice to see others have finally figured the same thing out.

    1. Re:XKCD by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The flaw in that chart, and in many people's understanding of radiation, is that it makes no distinction between types. There are different kinds of radiation and different ways your body can be subjected to it.

      According to the chart none of the children near Chernobyl should have become ill, but thousands of them did. Considering Randall has mentioned the dangers of trying to model such things with pure maths in a comic before I was quite disappointed that he then tried to do exactly that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  17. RADIATION IS SAFE! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Nuclear energy is clean, and too cheap to meter.

    In other news, the gulf seafood is fine! Eyeless shrimp are actually easier to peel!

    Signed,
    The Vested Defenders of Absolute Truth

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:RADIATION IS SAFE! by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      By giving the other extream you are not invaladiting the nuclear energy is a valid and safe power source when managed properly.

      Nuclear energy is a very efficient power source, and we should be expanding it, and stop falling pry to the feet mongers who doesn't know the difference between nuclear energy and a nuclear bomb.

      That said it does have some responsibility because it does have dangerious after products, and needs tone well maintain.

      However right now, the left is afraid of nuclear, and the right doesn't want to control it. A stupid combination.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:RADIATION IS SAFE! by mspohr · · Score: 1

      If only nuclear could be done economically.
        Unfortunately, it seems to have a "negative learning curve". Plants keep getting more expensive, not less.
      Latest from Orlando Sentinel http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-05/news/os-progress-energy-rates-beth-kassab-050612-20120505_1_nuclear-plants-nuclear-reactors-progress-energy
      It seems that the Progress Energy boondoggle continues. In 2007 it said the twin 1100 Megawatt reactors would cost $5 Billion. In 2008 it said they would cost $14 Billion (plus $3 Billion for transmission lines). In 2011 they said they would cost $24 Billion .... and oh, by the way, they wouldn't be finished until 2024... not the 2016 date originally projected.
      The real kicker is that they are allowed to charge ratepayers now for the cost of building these plants even though they won't produce power until 2024 (if then).
      This makes Solyndra look like a great investment.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    3. Re:RADIATION IS SAFE! by cffrost · · Score: 2

      However right now, the left is afraid of nuclear, and the right doesn't want to control it.

      I'm "the left*," and I'm not afraid of nuclear; I support nuclear energy because I care about the environment and acknowledge society's need for a continually-increasing supply of (low-emission, base-load) energy. I know there are others on the left (here on Slashdot) that agree.

      * The actual left, not Obama's conservative "left."

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    4. Re:RADIATION IS SAFE! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Nuclear technology is untrustworthy in any scenario where business profit motive is superior an interest to diligence in safety and public welfare.

      More so than any other deployed technology, it is completely unforgiving of accidents. The implications of even minor errors in logistics or technical management are frequently catastrophic - on the scale of generations.

      The history of private operators, seeking to extract greater profit at the expense of reduced service and oversight, is at complete odds with the interest of safely managing this technology.

      Low-bidders, who then use their undue lobby pressure in Government to reduce the burden of public-interest oversight, are not trustworthy with ordinary power generation and mineral extraction.

      Governments are not trustworthy, when they are the captive marionettes of private interests that prefer privilege and short-term interest of finance and industry elite, to the general needs of their peoples.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
  18. When paradigms collide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love it when typical Slashdot truisms come into conflict.

    1. Government is always evil or incompetent. They can do nothing right.

    2. Private institutions and rightwing think-tanks are always correct and inherently morally superior to any public institution.

    3. Nuclear power is inherently good and superior to all other forms of power production. Anyone saying differently is a luddite.

    4. THORIUM!!!!!!

    5. Ron Paul is 100% correct on every issue

    6. Labor unions serve no other purpose than to protect the lazy and incompetent

    7. Public schools suck and private schools are fantastic. See 1 and 2.

    8. China does nothing but pirate and steal. There has never been an original thought from anyone east of South Korea.

    Is it at all possible to accept the -possibility- that the world is slightly more complex than such trite paradigms?

    1. Re:When paradigms collide by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      That's not really Slashdot truisms, just libertarian truisms (save 3 and 4, perhaps).

    2. Re:When paradigms collide by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      8. China does nothing but pirate and steal. There has never been an original thought from anyone east of South Korea.

      Too funny!

      You're obviously unaware that South Korea is WEST of the USA and EAST of China.

      So "anyone east of South Korea" includes the USA, but not China, making your point self-contradictory....

      Is it at all possible to accept the -possibility- that the world is slightly more complex than such trite paradigms?

      Yes. It's also possible to decide that someone who is unaware that the USA is EAST of Korea isn't worth listening to when it comes to discussing complex issues...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  19. 4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer! by tp1024 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just as everywhere else in the developed world. (Although actual figures in US states vary between 35% and 53% of people getting cancer - no evacuations so far, despite hugely increased risk in some states.)

  20. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by Microlith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There was a lot of radiation released by Fukushima.

    There was. The vast majority of it vanished over the past year as the iodine decayed. The majority of the remainder is now washed out to sea and will likely be indistinguishable from the normal radioisotope content of the ocean as is.

    Don't tell everyone to panic but don't lie and, in effect, tell everyone they are going to be okay either.

    So they'll need to do some cleanup and keep an eye on things with their doctor. It's not like everyone will have some hideous cancer as a direct result of this. Get back to me in a couple decades when rates of incidence are trackable and we can see what happened, when, and to who.

  21. At Chernobyl, they saw some damn cool shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    At Chernobyl, by contrast, the highest exposed workers died quickly from radiation sickness.

    Yes, but if I ever get a terminal illness and decide it's not worth living, I hope* they have a time machine so I can off myself by visiting it. Those highest exposed workers opened an access door to where the control rod manual controls used to be and stared right down into the burning core; others stepped outside and saw a shaft of air ionized by the escaping radiation piercing the night sky -- stuff very few people have ever seen.

    So, since nobody saw any phenomena the slightest bit unusual at Fukushima Dai-ichi, maybe there's no point with these endless comparisons to Chernoby?

    *"hope" in this context is not to be confused with "believe there is any chance at all of" -- I don't expect time travel of any sort ever to times before the construction of the time machine, and I've no reason to suspect it's definitely possible with that limit, or if it is, that the physics breakthrough would occur any time soon.

    1. Re:At Chernobyl, they saw some damn cool shit. by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      There was a docu-drama out of the UK that covered that? You could probably find it on MVGroup.org, in the Atomic Age section. Can't remember the name of it, but it was a conversation between those very men you speak about.

      Worker #1: How much did you get?

      W#3: I got 400.

      W#2: Not bad. I got 250. You?

      W#1: 750.

      W#4 (The one who opened the door, in a very weak voice) I got...3000...

      W#1: *snort* Show-off.

      --
      [End Of Line]
  22. "Safe" Levels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder who's "safe" exposure levels they're using. If they're using the US NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) numbers they should probably halve them. I think the NRC's numbers have been proven to be a little more than optimistic.

  23. Does this include Reactor 4 collapse scenarios? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://thecanadian.org/item/1499-fukushima-reactor-4-most-important-story-nobody-talking-about-japan-nuclear-tsunami-gillis

  24. Not really a fair comparison by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Chernobyl is not exactly a fair comparison. That was a massive release with so much radiation in some places you could actually taste it.

    Like it or not, Fukushima actually demonstrated that in an absolutely worst case nightmare scenario the releases would not be that bad.

    What I think is funny are the people who worry about getting cancer from the minuscule, barely measurable radiation drifting in weather patterns and then sit down to a breakfast of bacon and eggs. Processed meats have a much better statistical correlation for cancer than micro levels of radioactive isotopes, some of which occur naturally.

    I know, I know. I'm going to burn in hell now for ripping on bacon.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Not really a fair comparison by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I think is funny are the people who worry about getting cancer from the minuscule, barely measurable radiation drifting in weather patterns and then sit down to a breakfast of bacon and eggs.

      Not to mention set up such a racket about running a nuclear plant while ignoring the coal plant down the road that's giving everybody a chance at lung cancer halfway towards being a smoker.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    2. Re:Not really a fair comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bacon? Nope.

      Coal plant down the road? Nope.

      Now tell me again why I shouldn't be worried about nuclear fallout.

    3. Re:Not really a fair comparison by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Come on Slashdot, why was this straw man modded +5 Insightful? In every debate about nuclear safety the raving anti-nuke fundamentalist is dragged out for a beating.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Not really a fair comparison by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Strawman? It happened. Lots of coal plants were built even as protests happened at nuclear plant construction sites. You get more BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) types going after coal today, but there's still more opposition to nuclear.

      I forgot to specify distance though - the figure I remember from the study is 'half the increased risk that a smoker has to get lung cancer within 5 miles of the plant'. Still, Coal costs a LOT of lives and medical expenses for things like Asthma.

      I don't think I'm a crazy nuke supporter, my 'plan' is pretty simple. For a carbon neutral electric grid(leaving carbon production to other industries and transportation, which is still pretty hefty), my mix is 40% nuclear(2X today, a bit less than the 44% that is produced by coal today), 20% solar(~100X current), 20% wind(~10X), and 20% other. Other consists of Hydro 6%(pretty much maxed), Biomass, Geothermal, Tidal, etc... It could as easily be 40% nuclear, 40% wind, 10% solar, 10% other though.

      In doing this, you shut down the coal plants first, then the older(less safe) nuclear plants, then start drawing back on things like natural gas. Save coal for making Iron/Steel, and NG for chemical production, heating homes, and fueling vehicles.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    5. Re:Not really a fair comparison by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I was not talking about coal, I was talking about this fictional raving ecomentalist that seems to crop up in every debate.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Not really a fair comparison by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Except they do exist; heck, they used to bus them in to protest at construction projects.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  25. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by peragrin · · Score: 3, Informative

    true but if the majority of radiation was alpha it is easily blocked unless ingested.

    Since what got carried away in the explosions and water was alpha and beta, The danger is less. most of that has become heavily diluted in the ocean.

    Radiation has many different effects depending on type. a high dose of one has a different short term, and then long term effect.

    Gamma goes through everything but doesn't stick around as much.
    Alpha can stick around in an environment for decades continuously poisoning and re-poisoning those who come in contact with it.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  26. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by EdZ · · Score: 1

    Do you have anything conclusive that proves official sources (i.e. the IAEA and NISA) have reported anything incorrectly (or without later publishing the correction)? Media reporting inside of and outside of Japan swung wildly between "everything is fine" and "next Chernobyl?!?!?" with dizzying rapidity and little provocation. And I mean 'proof' other than dodgy blogs citing the-Geiger-counter-I-built-myself-but-never-had-calibrated.

  27. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know this? Pray tell, how have you come to this conclusion when any rational person would at least desire some evidene? Were there burning bushes involved or did you simple determine it because nuclear power is, after all, made of rainbows and the laughter of children.

    While you're at it, you might want to look up the differences in total dosage received when standing miles away from a radiation source as opposed to INGESTING the damn source like some people will have done.

  28. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by tp1024 · · Score: 1

    Publicly available data.

  29. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    Gamma goes through everything but doesn't stick around as much.
    Alpha can stick around in an environment for decades continuously poisoning and re-poisoning those who come in contact with it.

    Gamma rays go through everything, but doesn't stick around at all.

    Alpha particles are helium ions, and are neither poisonous nor particularly prone to sticking around.

    That said...

    Gamma EMITTERS can be in the environment for extended periods, based entirely on their half-life (long half-life means the emitters are around for a long time, short halflife rather the reverse).

    Alpha EMITTERS can be in the environment for extended periods, based entirely on their half-life (same parenthetical comment).

    And THAT said...

    Gamma emitters are moderately dangerous, but alpha emitters can safely be stored under your bed (an alpha emitter wrapped in yesterday's newspaper is pretty much safe, since an alpha particle won't penetrate a single sheet of paper).

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  30. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I dunno. I read it on the internet somewhere... I think... can't remember... Google it. Shit gotta run"

  31. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by tp1024 · · Score: 1

    Is it really so hard to figure out that you could just search for "us states cancer data"?

  32. Lawsuit time. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    If this had happened in the US how long would it have been before we'd have seen lawyers on TV advertising legal action? I'm sure findings from independent agencies would have been completely irrelevant to the case.

  33. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    Looking at "Fairewinds Energy Education" website, it doesn't look like anything other than an anti-nuke shill, producing reports on demand for the anti-nuke hysterics...

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  34. Re:Ditto For The B.P. Gulf Oil Spill ( +4, Helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like ( -20 Stupid )

  35. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd point you in the direction of Euradcom which has actual data on this but you'd just sweep it away as EU commie pinko luddite arguments.

    I truly hope you get to live in the world you desire and that I'm long dead by then. A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.

  36. Malarkey by REALMAN · · Score: 1

    They said the same thing after Chernobyl. Is anyone buying it this time?

    --
    - A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
  37. Good News Everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people will be fine. Not too many will suffer.

    The few that do suffer are highly unlikely to be able to prove that Fukushima Daiichi is specifically responsible, so we won't lose the law suits.

    Good news everyone!

  38. Who Wants to be the Statistic? by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Unless, you are working there or eating the local food or water, the risks from Fukushima are small, BUT....
    Who wants leukemia or thyroid cancer?

    Say the risks are 1:100,000, then 37 people will get cancer in LA, alone.
    Although the odds are quite low, someone will be the statistic, and it will never be blamed on the source because that is how money works.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  39. No. by Grog6 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nuclear tech saves many lives every day(Cancer treatment and detection), as well as powering the most likely long term energy solution.

    The Japanese did not use graphite moderated reactors for very well known reasons, Chernobyl being the best example of those reasons... (Negative steam void reactivity coefficient, was a major one, iirc.)

    The reactors at Chernobyl were pretty much updated versions of the ones we built during WWII to make plutonium, also iirc.

    Idiocy=Bad.

    Any tech is only as bad or good as what you use it for, and how you use it is your problem to explain.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re:No. by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      Even this supposedly pro-nuclar article has lines that are decidedly unfair.

      At Chernobyl, by contrast, the highest exposed workers died quickly from radiation sickness.

      Technically true, yet a brilliant lie : but it blames the wrong party. Also, it neglects to mention that we're talking about 31 people here, and that these people were essentially sent INTO the reactor by their superiors, who knew full well what would happen. Some socialist bureaucrats ordered people to their death without telling them. That's what happened, these were 100% preventable deaths even after the disaster had occurred. I guess what's true for capitalists is true for communists as well : human life is cheaper than causing managers slight inconvenieces or forcing them to admit mistakes.

      Note that there's nothing inherently nuclear about those deaths. Soviet officials ordered many such people to their death, mostly sending them into situations where it was a given that they'd drown.

    2. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Errr...ummm...seems a lot of Japanese are pretty upset about it...as well as large numbers of other people around the world...

      http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_japans_nuclear_meltdown_global_b/?cl=1823880462&v=14540

      MORE INFORMATION

      Fukushima Reactor 4 poses massive global risk (CTV)
      http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20120518/fukushima-dai-ichi-risk-reactor-4-120519/

      The Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Is Far From Over (Huffington Post)
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-alvarez/the-fukushima-nuclear-dis_b_1444146.htmll

      Doomsday scenarios spread about No. 4 reactor at Fukushima plant (The Asahi Shimbun)
      http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201205100051

      Fukushima Daiichi’s Achilles Heel: Unit 4s Spent Fuel? (The Wall Street Journal)
      http://en.rsf.org/bahrain-france-24-correspondent-tortured-30-05-2011,40374.html

      Japan Nuclear Plant May Be Worse Off Than Thought (New York Times)
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/world/asia/inquiry-suggests-worse-damage-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?_r=1

    3. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the workers that did pass quickly were clean up crews. Some did die from trying to avert or save the plant from further disaster.
      These were 2 different times in terms of technology, and safety. It is unfair to compare them, when they are doing there studies. Since these were built by a US company they should have been built like the ones in the US, they took short cuts. By that I mean the containment domes! Same for Russian plants as well.

    4. Re:No. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      That's what happened, these were 100% preventable deaths even after the disaster had occurred.

      Yeah, those death could be prevented. At the cost of thousands or tens of thousands dead if reactor continued burning. In case of Chernobyl the blame should be not on people who designed the reactor and not on those who handled mitigation of the disaster but on those who mismanaged its operation in a spectacular way, causing the disaster in the first place. It wouldn't matter if reactor was "safer" -- there is always something an idiot can do to cause a major disaster. Even in the absence of a nuclear reactor.

      In Fukushima they were lucky that the damage was relatively minor and unlucky that power plant had no procedure and made no preparation to react to such damage. The fact that it happened, shows that nuclear power plants and idiots still occasionally mix, just with less severe consequences.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    5. Re:No. by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      The problem was that these people walked straight into the reactor core (where they didn't have to be at all) on the idiotic assumption that they might have repaired the reactor, not knowing that they were stepping into a neutron microwave. For the simple reason that their bosses hadn't told them what was inside the building, or what it's effects were. They didn't notice, because the immediate effect of high radiation doses is that your body heats up - which nobody is going to find even remotely strange when running inside a burning building.

      They could have brought several truckloads of concrete and just poured it on top of the reactor (which they did after they noticed which 20 people had just died). That would have caused zero deaths, and would have stopped the spread of the toxic materials (the problem was that the reactor was so hot that it was vaporizing activated material even fissile material, which then rose into the air and contaminated the area. Nobody thought to check this, and you could literally have prevented 99% of the damage by covering the damn building with a blanket, rather the managers sent people straight into the radioactive cloud, literally sending them where they'd be breathing fissioning uranium, in addition to large quantities of activated materials. Why ? So they'd try the "off" button on the control panel)

      My point is that the soviet administrators (much like today's managers) were perfectly willing to throw away dozens of lives on an extremely long shot that the reactor might be salvageable, for the purpose of saving some money and a lot of embarassement. They knew perfectly well people would start dropping like flies inside the reactor. They made people take those risks - by not telling them about the risk. They should be taken out and shot - repeatedly. And nobody should blame nuclear power for these deaths, or at least not any more than water is blamed for drowning people.

      The reactor design was essentially the same deal. Soviet administrators were perfectly aware that you can use heavy water as a moderator, and that that is easy to produce inside a reactor. They knew about this, because they had built atomic bombs, and you can't build atomic bombs without a heavy water reactor. The reactor design was the way it was to save a few bucks, nothing more. They risked a lot of lives to save a few bucks, knowing they were causing a disaster. Then when the disaster came, they simply sent in a few people, hoping they'd figure out a way to undo their stupidity, instead of facing facts.

      And who or what is responsible for the resulting casualties ? Ah, science of course ! Nuclear science. That doing that makes about as much sense as blaming the sea for dam breaches.

  40. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by treeves · · Score: 1

    "...a lot of radiation released by Fukushima." [nitpick: radioactivity would be a better term than radiation]

    "A lot" is not a useful description. No, really. I don't just mean you need a number. I mean a lot of mercury is released into the environment too.
    And there is a lot of gold in the ocean. So what?
    There are many variables your blanket statement does not begin to address.

    Over what time period?
    In what physical and chemical form?
    With what half-lives?
    Into what medium?
    Over how large an area?
    How does it diffuse/propagate?
    Who was exposed?
    How does it compare to the radiation already present?
    etc.
    etc.

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  41. TEPCO estimate sees more radiation than NISA's by surveyork · · Score: 1

    "Tokyo Electric Power Co. has estimated the total amount of radioactive substances discharged from its Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant measured 760,000 terabecquerels, 1.6 times the estimate released by the Economy, Trade and Industry Ministry's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency in February. "
    http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T120523005514.htm

    --
    2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
    1. Re:TEPCO estimate sees more radiation than NISA's by tp1024 · · Score: 1

      But didn't anybody tell you, that TEPCO is a bunch of lying bastards?

    2. Re:TEPCO estimate sees more radiation than NISA's by ModelX · · Score: 1

      Note that the claimed total only includes iodine-131 and cesium-137, while they forget about radioactive noble gases and other isotopes. Besides, there are no public images where one could clearly see the cap of reactor 3. If reactor 3 or it's fuel pool has thrown significant amounts of plutonium in the air, the situation is much more dramatic than admitted.

  42. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by lennier · · Score: 2

    Gamma emitters are moderately dangerous, but alpha emitters can safely be stored under your bed

    Not quite. IANA health physicist, but from my reading of Wikipedia, alpha emitters can be the most dangerous of all if they get into your body, because then they dump all their energetic payload into a tissue-paper-width of actual tissue.

    So: safe to store under your bed only if they are a solid block of metal. Not at all safe if they are breathable aerosol particles, less safe if they are particles which fall out of the sky onto your food crops or fish, even less safe if they are functional analogues of chemicals that living tissue stores and concentrates long-term, such as strontium, potassium or iodine.

    Radioisotopes of potassium seem to hit the sweet spot of maximum bio-damage. Light enough to carry on the wind and fall out on crops kilometres away from the leak site, half-life in the years rather than days, and incorporated into the body and potentially can be concentrated up the food chain (though not for as long as strontium, I believe). And the cancer rate from them will definitely not be measured in bananas.

    Does that seem like a correct assessment to you?

    --
    You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  43. Even if safe, should we use nuclear? by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

    I used to be a nuclear energy fan (considering that much of the anti-nuclear sentiment is Luddite hysteria),
    but the Iran situation made me reconsider. I fear that nuclear power generation might advance
    the proliferation of nuclear weapons.

    And according to Wikipedia, solar will start reaching grid parity in 2015 and wind in 2020/2025.
    I think we can get by with hydro, coal (with pollution-reducing technology) and natural gas
    until 2025.

    What do you think?

    1. Re:Even if safe, should we use nuclear? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      solar will never reach parity with energy demand.. we would need collectors out in space to get close.. The answer to outside threats is to attack them when they get uppity. I realize this is outside the realm of possibility for the gimpwrists who run the federal government. for them, it's easier to do the terrorists work for them by destroying our liberty with life sucking surveillance and censorship...all with corporate blessing.

  44. Regarding Hiroshima by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 2

    Please see http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/denson7.html.

    It argues that those 170,000 people died unnecessarily.

    1. Re:Regarding Hiroshima by Phydaux · · Score: 1

      That is a very interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

    2. Re:Regarding Hiroshima by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THEY WERE THE GODDAMN ENEMY.

    3. Re:Regarding Hiroshima by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 0

      And according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_bombing

      Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki

      So the combined death toll is 150,000-246,000 (average 198,000).

      And please read (it is just 4 paragraphs) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_bombing#Depiction.2C_public_response_and_censorship
      And I also remember (from a documentary) a Japanese man telling that he walked over the ruins of his house, collected his wife's remains
      in a bucket, and took it to the cemetery. That managed to disturb me even more than the many children who were murdered or maimed.

      Now, don't take me for an anti-American. Those people who vilify America for its "imperialism" are often hypocritical leftists.
      They scream day and night about the Atomic bombings and the wars of Vietnam and Iraq, while turning a blind eye to
      the 100,000,000 cadavers left behind by Marxism. They scream "crime against humanity!" when a mass-murdering
      terrorist is water-boarded, but they forget that Marxists would take innocent people and take out their teeth, crack their ribs, smash their toes with a hammer and extract all their fingernails with pliers.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky#Great_Purge.2C_trial.2C_torture_and_rehabilitation is just one random example.
      They also forget about the countless women that the Chinese government abducts in order to kill their babies.

      The only people that I see consistently and uniformly opposing war atrocities are the followers of Pope John Paul II's culture of life, and the libertarians.

      Speaking about libertarians, I find myself agreeing with much of what libertarian Thomas Woods says. I agree with non-interventionism,
      replacing authoritarian national governments with decentralised federations, the right to homeschool, and other kinds of liberty.

      Regards

  45. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (an alpha emitter wrapped in yesterday's newspaper is pretty much safe, since an alpha particle won't penetrate a single sheet of paper).

    Further add the only danger you can get from alpha particles is if you ingest them. They cannot penetrate your skin so they are not harm to you externally. But if you inject them they cannot penetrate your skin so they get stuck inside you.

  46. Re:4 out of 10 people in Fukushima will get cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just as everywhere else in the developed world. (Although actual figures in US states vary between 35% and 53% of people getting cancer - no evacuations so far, despite hugely increased risk in some states.)

    You know this? Pray tell, how have you come to this conclusion when any rational person would at least desire some evidene? Were there burning bushes involved or did you simple determine it because nuclear power is, after all, made of rainbows and the laughter of children.

    From Table 10 in this report available from the CDC here:

    Number of deaths due to cancer ("malignant neoplasms") in the USA in 2009: 567,628
    Total number of deaths in the USA in 2009: 2,437,163

    Thus in the USA in 2009 cancer caused 23.3% of all deaths. Now, take into account that a lot of people get cancer but don't die of it, and you will realize that the granparent's numbers are not unreasonable.

  47. Severe N. Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10-20 yrs by surveyork · · Score: 1

    Severe Nuclear Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10 to 20 Years, European Study Suggests http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120522134942.htm I'm nuclear agnostic, but articles like these leave me a bit uneasy. Only a bit.

    --
    2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
  48. Politic. by aepervius · · Score: 1

    if he had really a data point showing that the report is wrong, he would show it and falsify the report instead of spouting politic call to authority "we are local so we know better". No you don't, you have data and can refute or you have not.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  49. low dose != low risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's well known that also low doses (below typical limits) pose a serious health hazard. Even things like getting an xray at your dentist once a year can up your chances for cancer by 20% (which is still a very small risk, but the effect is large given such a low dose).

  50. Soviet Union news 1988 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Were probably saying the exact same thing... "just a handful of problems to those who were first on scene"

    The fact is the nightmare is still very much going on. Most people have seen the images of the blown up reactor building. Not too many have the stomach to look at the people living in the area.

    Generally speaking it is not considered smart to speculate on events that will take more than 30 years to play out.

  51. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    The majority of the remainder is now washed out to sea and will likely be indistinguishable from the normal radioisotope content of the ocean as is.

    Well we know that isn't true because of the contaminated seafood coming from that area.

    So they'll need to do some cleanup and keep an eye on things with their doctor.

    "Some" clean up? Very large areas of land need to be decontaminated. Soil replaced, everything (including plants) cleaned off and checked. While protecting the people doing the cleaning.

    Outside the exclusion zone children have to wear dosimeters. Lots of people bought monitoring equipment and find that levels around their new rented accommodation (since they basically lost their homes and possessions, not to mention their jobs and communities when they had to leave) are near or above the internationally agreed safety limits.

    It's not like everyone will have some hideous cancer as a direct result of this. Get back to me in a couple decades when rates of incidence are trackable and we can see what happened, when, and to who.

    You might feel differently if it was your family at risk. Given the unknowns can you blame people for being cautious?

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  52. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by wrook · · Score: 2

    The thing I invite you to ask yourself is this: "Who lied to you?" I live in Japan and speak Japanese passably (though the vocabulary related to nuclear disasters was not a forte of mine at the beginning of the incident). One of the biggest problems I've had with this whole thing is that the information presented in the west by reputable news outlets was *different* from the information being presented in Japan. What was all the more infuriating was that the lies uncovered by the western media were never told in Japan in the first place (as far as I could tell).

    I kept listening to the TEPCO news conferences, and listening to the prime minister and then comparing it to what the western press was reporting. It was completely different. Then all of a sudden, the western press would say, "Oh, it's all wrong" and report what was originally reported in Japan. I'm really not sure if it was a translation problem, or what. The news conference would say, "The information we have is consistent with an intact reactor core, but there is a possibility that the core has melted down. We can not be sure at this time." The western press would say, "TEPCO reports that the core is intact". Then when the core was found to have melted down, the western press would change directions. This happened time after time after time.

    The IAEA had a web page which detailed the timeline of the disaster from the beginning to the end. It matched my understanding of the information coming from TEPCO and the Japanese government exactly (and differed greatly from my understanding of the information coming from the western news agencies). Unfortunately, it no longer seems to exist on the link I had for it. I invite you to take a look for it on their web page if you want: http://www.iaea.org/

    You may be thinking, "It doesn't matter who got it wrong, I can't trust those bastards." But it really does matter. If your primary information source is the western media, you may find that you are not getting the right picture and may be distrusting the wrong people.

  53. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by wrook · · Score: 1

    Fairewinds Energy Education is an anti-nuclear lobbyist group. Arnie Gundersen has a masters degree in nuclear engineering, and worked in the 70's (I believe... you may have to check that) for a few years in a non-operational reactor. He then went on to spend roughly 20 years as a high school math teacher. During his tenure as a math teacher, he has worked as a consultant for various anti-nuclear lobbyist groups. The information is public record and you can find it on the internet if you look around. This is coming from memory, so if I have made an error, please correct it in a post below.

    Gundersen has a history of making fairly alarming predictions. I invite you to search his name, look at his predictions and compare them to what happened. Of note is the information about Chernobyl.

    The spent fuel ponds are certainly an issue that has been brought up by more mainstream organizations like the IAEA. I have to say that I am skeptical about the Magnitude 7-7.5 predictions simply because there have been several of them in the area since the big quake.

  54. Re:Severe N. Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10-20 by ericloewe · · Score: 1

    Studies have also repeatedly suggested a link between RF transmissions and cancer, which anyone with a minimum of knowledge of radiation can tell is utter bullshit.

  55. Good to know by peppepz · · Score: 1

    It's so refreshing when you're affected with cancer to know that you "may never be able to conclusively link your illness to the meltdowns". That makes me want to settle near Fukushima right now.

  56. UNSCEAR, The UN, and Agenda 21 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These 70 scientists are UN propaganda
    The UN Agenda 21 has plans to depopulate, it's called eugenics.
    Do not trust the UN (united nations), or the WHO (world health org)

    They don't talk about damage to DNA either. Damage to DNA is permanent.
    Once you have three eye kids with stubs where their arms and legs, fingers and hands are supposed to be, the human race is on it's way to extinction. How will such a blob of protoplasm manage to dig a sewer, drive a car, hold a job, fly a jet, or reproduce with no dick or vagina? But it's not just limited to humans.

  57. How the predictions happen... by Waltre · · Score: 1

    We can not reliably say whether exposure N (mSv) will cause cancer in person P - we can only predict it based on previous observations.

    Predicting the effect from radiation exposure is based on long-term epidemiological study data such as the Japan Life Span Study [1-3]. These compare the disease rates in large populations to neighbouring/control populations where radiation exposure was at natural levels.

    These studies form the basis of a statistical reference when establishing the likelihood of developing an illness due to radiation exposure. They suggest that there is a ‘statistically significant increase of the risk of fatal cancer starting at the range of 50–100 mSv, possibly already at 10–50 mSv’ [4].

    TFA: "Residents of Namie town and Iitate village, two areas that were not evacuated until months after the accident, received 10–50mSv"

    Deterministic effects (i.e. observed reliably above a certain dose threshold) of exposure are seen above 100mSv [4].

    TFA: "146 employees and 21 contractors received a dose of more than 100 millisieverts (mSv), the level at which there is an acknowledged slight increase in cancer risk. Six workers received more than the 250mSv allowed by Japanese law for front-line emergency workers, and two operators in the control rooms for reactor units 3 and 4 received doses above 600mSv".

    Through previous observations of population exposures to radiation at similar levels, it is statistically likely that this accident will result in an increase in cancer incidence among this population.

    [1] Preston, D.L., et al., Cancer Incidence in Atomic Bomb Survivors. Part III: Leukemia, Lymphoma and Multiple Myeloma, 1950-1987 Radiation Research, 1994. 137 (2 (Suppliment)): p. S68 - S97.
    [2] Preston, D.L., et al., Solid Cancer Incidence in Atomic Bomb Survivors: 1958–1998. Radiation Research, 2007. 168(1): p. 1-64.
    [3] Land, C.E., Studies of Cancer and Radiation Dose Among Atomic Bomb Survivors. The Example of Breast Cancer. JAMA, 1995. 274(5): p. 402 - 407.
    [4] Vock, P., CT Dose Reduction in Children. European Radiology, 2005. 15: p. 2330-2340.

  58. Re:Severe N. Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10-20 by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Studies have also repeatedly suggested a link between RF transmissions and cancer, which anyone with a minimum of knowledge of radiation can tell is utter bullshit.

    And what does that have to do with the likelihood or not of a nuclear power station accident?

    You are just trying to smear nuclear power sceptics with the "anti-science" brush, in order to get slashdotters to react in a Pavlovian way.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  59. This article is bullshit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All is fine in Fukushima?

    Read this stupid:

    http://enenews.com/former-fukushima-daiichi-worker-i-believe-the-country-will-be-evacuated-if-the-no-4-spent-fuel-pool-collapses-should-be-hundreds-or-thousands-of-people-working-furiously-every-day

    http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3049:fukushima-crisis-caldicott-says-evacuate-northwest-japan
    watch the interview of ppl from RT.

    http://enenews.com/mainichi-expert-sr-writer-all-eastern-japan-evacuated-fukushima-plant-abandoned/comment-page-1

    This type of ignorance pisses me off you have no idea... California can even measure an abnormal level of Bq..

  60. No, you ARE all going to die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some will die from cancer induced by smoking. However, proving that it was a cigarette that caused a specific death is almost impossible.

    Same here.

    "Oh, nobody has died from a terminal illness that would take 20 years to take hold, therefore there's no risk peeps!".

    Note how few of these people saying it's safe have decided to make out like bandits and buy a cheap home in the areas around Chernobyl or Fukushama, and move their families there.

  61. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by Jens+Egon · · Score: 1

    I'm really not very good at Japanese, and I remember trying to check my understanding of the news coming out of Japan agaist the BBC.

    In my assesment and as far as I recall the BBC reported quite faithfully and very slowly what was happening in Japan.

  62. It's pronounced new-killer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's pronounced new-killer.

  63. Re:I'm having trouble believing anything they say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing happened at that power plant. It's all just a big conspiracy.
    That the whole damn thing exploded is just fake video. Just watch it frame by frame and you'll see there is something wrong with it.
    The kids with the bleeding noses were just fighting with each other. Radiation poisoning had nothing to do with that.
    When you go to Fukushima you don't see or smell any radiation so anyone telling you it is contaminated beyond levels to live there is just lying.
    That we can't eat anything from that Fukushima area is just because the Japanese government wants to keep all the good vegetables for itself.
    That the government evacuated thousands of people is just a covert operation for something secret they are planning.
    So people should indeed just continue their life as if nothing happened over there.
    And damn the media which is continuously reporting as if something serious could happen when 3 out of 6 nuclear reactors exploded.
    As if that could happen in any other country and as if it does have any impact on the environment.
    Nuclear energy is completely safe and the best options for us because wind is not blowing daily and the sun is not shining at night.
    I also can't understand that people are so ignorant about nuclear energy.
    Every city should have its own nuclear plant and since it is so cheap, the paper to print the energy bill on is more expensive than the bill itself.
    And the good part is we can always use the nuclear waste to bomb some foreign country that doesn't want to give us its oil.
    We should have the government putting a ban on speaking bad about nuclear energy because it hurts big important companies.

  64. Lawyer science by saveferrousoxide · · Score: 1

    may never be able to conclusively link their illness to the meltdowns

    Ah. I see. By "risk" they mean risk of a lawsuit standing up in court...