Google Touts Worker Tracking As Own CEO Goes MIA

theodp writes "On Thursday, Google announced a product that enables a business to see where all its workers are at all times. Called Maps Coordinate, it combines a paid-for business version of Google's standard maps product with an application downloaded to a worker's smartphone, creating a real-time record of worker locations. Ironically, Google touted its worker tracking solution on the very same day that CEO Larry Page was a surprise no-show at Google's Annual Shareholder Meeting, leaving Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt to explain his absence. Schmidt explained that Page had lost his voice and, as a result, would likely also miss next week's I/O conference and possibly next month's quarterly earnings call. While a Google spokeswoman declined to comment further on Page's condition, Schmidt added that Page will continue as CEO while he recovers. So, why not reassure those worried about the situation by publicly tracking Page's location via Maps Coordinate? After all, Google's a true believer in eating its own dog food, right?"

Comments

Huh?

[Russ1642]

What kind of crap argument is that in the summary? Live tracking the CEO of Google because you're upset about your stocks. Genius.

Re:Huh?

[kidgenius]

What kind of crap argument is that in the summary? Live tracking the CEO of Google because you're upset about your stocks. Genius.

You identified it already. A crap one.

Re:Huh?

[Hatta]

No, live tracking the CEO of Google because Google is pushing live tracking of employees.

Re:Huh?

[CanHasDIY]

No, live tracking the CEO of Google because Google is pushing live tracking of employees.

Right.

It's called turnabout, and by all accounts is considered fair play.

Re:Huh?

[Khyber]

Why not? They track us all the fucking time, and we don't even work for them.

Re:Huh?

[matrim99]

Good question. Here is another:

"Are you seriously thinking that any company will ever use Maps Coordinate to track the location of companies' corporate executives?"

Re:Huh?

[surd1618]

The day we re-write the U.S. Constitution to balance the effects of technology since telegraphs, corporate officers could actually inherit some regular human liabilities. Like most important changes, I expect that only war can effect a revised and corporation-aware social contract.

Re:Huh?

[TheGratefulNet]

since the priv'd class has their own judges, law system and rules (a closed, mini-society, essentially) I would not expect them to have to follow rules given to the worker classes.

and if I am using class warfare language, its because we ARE under class-warfare right now.

Re:Huh?

[rtaylor]

Nearly all billionaires have a minimum of a half-dozen staff on hand to fulfill their needs (getting coffee, taking notes, arranging travel/meetings, handling visitors, security, etc.)

Their position and behavour are already tracked by their companies (which they typically own a large portion of) in far more detail than you ever will be.

One of the hazards of being rich is that you are never alone.

Re:Huh?

[SadButTrue]

I feel like Slashdot has run it's course for me. This wasn't even close to the worst recent summary but for some reason, to me, it seems the most intentional.

Goodbye /. and thanks for all the fish.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Google CEO is sick and likely at home,.."

Not at all, he just can't connect to Google Voice.

Re:Huh?

[thegarbz]

Wait you're right!

We never considered this in the past. We will completely rethink our strategy from this point forward.

From now on we will not track a single person, everyone's browsing habits will be anonymous.
Here's our new pricing policy:
- $0.10 per google search.
- $0.30 per click on a search result.
- $10 per month for Gmail.
- $0.50 per sqkm of map downloaded on maps.

This new pricing structure offers people exactly what they want. A completely ad free and untracked Google experience. If you do not wish to pay this pricing scheme or wish to keep using Google services for free, you can sign up for a free google experience by sending an email to please_track_me@google.com

Kind Regards
Larry Page

Google - Giving the customers the choice they always wanted.

Re:Huh?

[RockDoctor]

and if I am using class warfare language, its because we ARE under class-warfare right now.

Which decade, this side of the establishment of agriculture, was it when everyone WASN'T under class warfare?

Re:Huh?

[AssholeMcGee]

Seriously? He is the CEO of the company, and missing, he does not have to kiss the media's ass. But Schmidt apparently does!!!! Dumb excuse for the CEO to be missing.. Sounds like you cannot take a joke!!!!!!!

Re:Huh?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

How will Google know how much money to ask for without actually tracking the users (and sending it to the billing department)?

Tracking employees is just wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Today they're tracking us during office hours, tomorrow they're tracking us after-hours. What's next?

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Sunday.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Jeng]

Today they're tracking us during office hours, tomorrow they're tracking us after-hours. What's next?

Hmm, perhaps

Mandatory yearly physicals that only the company gets to see the results of.

Pre-employment genetic testing.

Employment termination due to not living in an approved community.

Background checks of all family, friends, and neighbors.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[AliasMarlowe]

Today they're tracking us during office hours, tomorrow they're tracking us after-hours. What's next?

Returning to civilized society?
As in switching your work phone on when you get to work, and switching it off when you leave work. That's what I do, because (i) the company's time is 37½ hours per week for 45 weeks of the year [minus a few statutory holidays], with all other time being my own, and (ii) nobody pays me to be "on-call" or available outside work hours, and an offer would have to be very attractive to get me to consent to such an arrangement. If any tracking application is on it, I can only be tracked during working hours. BTW, my job is not at the general lackey level, either.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Eponymous Hero]

neither is mine, but it makes you wonder about those who are general lackeys. i mean, if you care about other people that is. aw who am i kidding

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Yosho-sama]

Phones don't need to be on to have the tracking features functional. Except for completely discharging your device, the only way to prevent signals from getting to or leaving your device would be to dump it in a signal blocking bag every time you're off the clock.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[SirGarlon]

Getting your friends and acquaintances to track you. Oh, wait! That's Facebook.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[dkleinsc]

Requiring employees to demonstrate that they don't ingest particular mind-altering substances in their spare time as a condition of their employment?

(Full disclosure: I don't use drugs, but I think it's completely inappropriate that employers test for them.)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[P-niiice]

If you're not upper-level management, you're a lackey.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[CanHasDIY]

Tracking your bathroom habits..

"Looks like Peon # 547382 is a wadder, not a folder... recommend T.P. rationing."

Bonus points if you can figure out what that's a reference from... 'cause I sure as hell can't remember.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD PARENT UP.

(implies tracking for religious preferences)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Jeng]

Already happens. In some call centers you have to put your bathroom requests into the call center management applications and then the app lets you know when you can get up and go to the bathroom.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Artraze]

I find it funny how "civilized society" to you means telling your employer to go pound sand if it's not precisely the time you're supposed to be in the building.
For me civilized is taking the occasional off-hours call in exchange for my employer allowing allowing me take an occasional (and, indeed, quite more frequent) bit of person time during work. Like reading and posting on slashdot, for instance. You know, like you're doing during these (ostensibly) business hours.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting government sponsorship of cams in some places to see that people are appropriately dressed, and then using recognition on them so that nearby billboards display targeted ads at those passing?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/06/2012614123018114938.html

Some go a bit far with the parenting type things.

I brought you in this world and I can take you out! - Bill Cosby

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[JoeMerchant]

Today they're tracking us during office hours, tomorrow they're tracking us after-hours. What's next?

Hmm, perhaps

Mandatory yearly physicals that only the company gets to see the results of.

Pre-employment genetic testing.

Employment termination due to not living in an approved community.

Background checks of all family, friends, and neighbors.

Oh, so you want to work in the Defense industry?

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD PARENT DOWN.

(nutjob)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[AngryDeuce]

Even more hysterical is that said drug-testing is often inversely proportional to the level of responsibility and ability for said applicant to fuck shit up royally.

The kid restocking the fucking bandages and shit at the local hospital has to submit a hair test to make sure he's not a junkie, but nurses tending to the sick just breeze right through the application process as long as they've got their certifications. I guess people just can't be drug addicts anymore once they get a degree or something.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Mister Whirly]

Or pulling the battery. I don't know of any applications that do not require power to the phone.

Oh wait, you may have an iPhone, sorry. (On my G2 it would take about 2 seconds to disable any tracking going on.) Apple users may be screwed here unless they have their own Faraday Cage. Or you always carry around some tinfoil...

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[kheldan]

Fuck that shit. I'd rather be unemployed and homeless than put up with that kind of crap. I'll go to the goddamn bathroom whenever I feel the need. Human rights, damnit!

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Mandatory yearly physicals that only the company gets to see the results of.

Pre-employment genetic testing.

Employment termination due to not living in an approved community.

Background checks of all family, friends, and neighbors.

You forgot the weekly lie detector tests.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[clonehappy]

Exactly. So, when I hear stories of how there are millions of jobs just waiting to be filled out here in 'Murrica, if only you sell your soul and dignity for $7.25 an hour, I don't bat an eye when I see that folks would rather choose welfare or unemployment benefits over indentured servitude. In fact, given the same situation, I believe I'd probably have to choose the same.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[colinrichardday]

Oh, here's a wacky idea: just leave your work phone at home when you get home from work. The tracking feature will show that your phone is home.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[colinrichardday]

But the trackers will know that you have disabled tracking.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[KhabaLox]

I'll play the odds and say Simpsons.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Belial6]

I homeschool my son, and that is one of the things that it took until he was almost 8 years old to believe. That in the public schools, you had to ask permission to go to the bathroom, and you might be told no. When we told him that, he had a completely confused look on his face. On the one hand, dad doesn't lie to him. On the other hand, there is no way that kids would be told that they can't go to the bathroom when they need to.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[JonySuede]

I guess people just can't be drug addicts anymore once they get a degree or something.

It is worse than the, you are actually authorized to become one if you have the right job, I was missing my 20's legendary concentration ability, I talked to that to my company doctor and came out whit a prescription for 720 pills of 30mg dextroamphetamine-levolysinate. I am starting my seconds year on that, here are the effect I benefited from: a toned musculature, ripped abs, excellent cholesterol level and excellent energy(d'uh), stopped cannabis abuse, and yeah!, my concentration is back to a level I never experienced. However I am now addicted and if I forgot to take my pills I feel slow as fuck, to the point of being a borderline retard, and I am extremely irritable.

I also have a relative, a wood worker, who takes street amphetamine for the same purpose, he do not takes more than half a pills a day and it enable him to stay focused. He is also addicted.

Can someone tell me why my addiction is legally and socially acceptable but his is not ?

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[JATMON]

Today they're tracking us during office hours, tomorrow they're tracking us after-hours. What's next?

This would be good in the trucking industry, delivery services, emergency services, etc. Basically anything where your employees are out driving around all day.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Jeng]

I was aiming for plausible but ridiculous. I guess I should have tried to be more ridiculous.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[93 Escort Wagon]

MOD PARENT SIDEWAYS.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Krishnoid]

I don't bat an eye when I see that folks would rather choose welfare or unemployment benefits over indentured servitude. In fact, given the same situation, I believe I'd probably have to choose the same.

Makes you wonder if that will someday come to pass.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[surd1618]

viz. story about MIT video-enhancing algorithm

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[surd1618]

BTW, my job is not at the general lackey level, either.

Yeah, f*** lackeys. Then when their kids grow up used to the idea that companies spy on their parents, we can descend into the next level of invasiveness as they take on every kind of job including ones like yours and higher.

They really stressed this point during the Enlightenment, that all men need equality.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[surd1618]

Simpler times, I guess.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[K. S. Kyosuke]

That was actually supposed to be a literary reference. :-)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Imrik]

More fun to leave it at work, convince the trackers you're secretly putting in 128 hours of overtime a week.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[mattack2]

Allusion, not reference.

(Just passing on the correction as someone did to me many times, which caused it to sink in.)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[mattack2]

37.5 hours/week, and 7 weeks/year of vacation?!?! Where do you work??!

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[colinrichardday]

Your employer expects only 40 hours a week? How quaint.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Johann Lau]

Not by any means. The rights we enjoy today were in large parts fought for by people who at the same time endured hardships we can't even fucking fathom, at least not generally in the middle class of the first world. I'm afraid there's just no excuse. And yes, it takes courage to believe it ought and CAN be better than it is, it also results in the weight of responsibility. Instead of blaming circumstances, blame the ones actively doing it, which would be every single one of us.

You see, there is no choice anyway. Empire and slavery always results in either pointless violent revolt or decay without revolt, because you just can't build a vital society out of slaves with caged minds. You get what you pay for, and if you take shortcuts, you win nothing. Mediocrity isn't just less than stellar, it's a death sentence, and a thousand half humans don't add up to 500 humans, they add up to zero. I know the naked emperor likes to think machines will help with all that, so the pie can be had and eaten; but I doubt it will do anything but speed up the process, for good or ill.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Raenex]

Many years ago I applied for and received "Secret" clearance (long since abandoned). The only thing they did was make me fill out a questionnaire. That's consistent with this story regarding NASA employees.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Areyoukiddingme]

I, on the other hand, received a Top Secret clearance (also long since abandoned), more than a decade ago. That was pre-9/11 and the grandparent was not far off even then. Compartmented information is a good deal more difficult to get access to than merely Secret. I can only imagine how ridiculous it has gotten in a post-9/11 world, where FUD makes so much money.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[thetoadwarrior]

You don't sound dedicated to your boss.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Raenex]

Did they actually draw blood or require a physical? My friend at the time was going for Top Secret, and they made him take a lie detector test, and if I recall correctly asked some embarrassing sexual questions.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[AliasMarlowe]

37.5 hours/week, and 7 weeks/year of vacation?!?! Where do you work??!

Finland. The standard is to get 5 weeks of paid vacation, and to get a thirteenth month of salary. Every year, I trade the thirteenth month of salary for an extra two weeks of paid vacation, bringing my total to 7 weeks vacation. This might seem like a loss (4 weeks pay for 2 weeks vacation), until one notices that my marginal deduction rate is substantially more than 50%, so I count it as a sort-of gain - I lose rather less than two weeks equivalent of income after tax in return for the extra two weeks paid vacation.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[dunkelfalke]

That is pretty much standard for white collar jobs in Germany.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[green1]

If you disable tracking every day at the end of your shift, and turn it on again every day at the start of your shift, there isn't much they can say about it.

I'm a field technician for a major telco. My location is tracked at all times during work hours. They claim it's a safety thing, though there's a lot of debate on that point. At the end of the day I park my truck and turn off my phone and laptop. (and for the person who talks about tracking when it's off, that would be rather pointless because I don't carry it outside of business hours either). The company can call me in to work after hours on overtime if they want, they just have to call my personal cell phone (and the instant they do, I charge 2 hours at double time)

During the work day I'm driving their truck, using their equipment, and being paid for my time, so I really can't complain. After hours, well, that's a different matter, and unless they're paying me for my time, they aren't tracking me.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[green1]

I think this depends on what your employer is willing to do for you. many employers will be reasonable, and I'll be reasonable in return. but the more they tighten their grip, the more I work to the rules.
I used to leave my work phone on 24/7 and answered all sorts of calls from the company outside of work hours, then the company got picky about personal use of cell phones (keep in mind, I work for a telco... a bit of use of a company phone shouldn't cost them much!) I now turn off the cell phone the moment I finish work each day.
I used to work a bit late on occasion to finish a job, without billing for overtime, then the company got anal about everyone being in at exactly 08:00 and not leaving before exactly 16:00. now I bill overtime for any work that takes me to 16:01
Now to be fair, the stricter rules have mostly come from some employees abusing their positions, but appropriate action would be to deal with those specific individuals instead of punishing everyone.

As for "business hours" what a laughable and antiquated concept... starting with the fact that the internet is global and you don't have a clue what timezone anyone is in when they post on slashdot, and down to the fact that the world is no longer 9-5 monday-friday. many people work strange shifts so you really have no way of knowing who is, or is not, supposed to be working at any given time. (and that doesn't even get in to lunch of coffee breaks)

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[Areyoukiddingme]

No physical, no. They hadn't gone completely wacky just yet. I was never read into a program that required a lie detector test either, though any number of my colleagues had. They did want a urine sample.

The snarky post that started this chain was still partially snark at the time I went through the process. Still, 2 out of 4 is not a very good snark/truth ratio. People have had their credentials revoked for where they live, and the background checks and interviews of everyone you have ever known that they can find are very much real.

Re:Tracking employees is just wrong

[randyleepublic]

See, the idea is that you take the welfare, and then find a black or gray market occupation to get you to survival level. Once that starts to work for you, you are trapped, because if you try to leave there is no way to account for your last x years to a prospective legit employer. That means that the only jobs that are available are ones that pay worse than you hustle plus welfare, and who will take that deal?

Does not correlate

[javajawa]

Really don't see how corporate tracking of employees suddenly becomes an expectation of publicly tracking an executive.

Re:Does not correlate

[Andy Dodd]

I agree. The description makes it sound like CEO caught a cold that included laryngitis... Seriously, that's not worthy of telling the whole goddamn planet where he is.

In a world where much work is done at a computer, it's pretty easy to continue as CEO of a company (especially one as tech-oriented as Google) but not be able to participate in a public speaking engagement due to laryngitis.

Re:Does not correlate

[brian.stinar]

Yes, 'worker' != 'ceo.'

Re:Does not correlate

[DarkOx]

In a world where much work is done at a computer, it's pretty easy to continue as CEO of a company (especially one as tech-oriented as Google) but not be able to participate in a public speaking engagement due to laryngitis.

Yes it is pretty easy. Its really strange to suggest, today that he might miss the share holder conference more than a week from now though. That is long time to be too sick with a cold virus to participate in what is probably the CEO's most visible event all year. It almost looks like they are trying to manage expectations, which could indicate something is more deeply wrong than him just being out sick today.

Re:Does not correlate

[Jeng]

Even executives are employees, but yes this is only for when you are at work. Once you are off the clock, turn off the program and you are no longer tracked.

Re:Does not correlate

[Eponymous Hero]

yeah like cuz he's dead. it's weekend at bernie's over at google.

Re:Does not correlate

[FrootLoops]

something is more deeply wrong than him just being out sick today.

*cue the rumor mill*

Sounds like throat cancer.

Re:Does not correlate

[Belial6]

The executive works for the shareholders. If tracking those that work for you is reasonable, then the executive should be tracked.

Re:Does not correlate

[DriedClexler]

I can understand why he wouldn't be able to deliver a *speech*, but why does that mean he can't show up at all? If he needs to communicate something, he can type it to a screen.

WTF?

[gstoddart]

it combines a paid-for business version of Google's standard maps product with an application downloaded to a worker's smartphone, creating a real-time record of worker locations

No. A thousand times no.

I can't believe people would be willing to do this.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's no different than companies tracking workers who drive company-owned vehicles. There are many legitimate reasons to do this. Companies that do repair household appliance repair, or telecom technicians are tracked in order to give customers updated time estimates of when the employee will arrive.

Re:WTF?

[Russ1642]

Many companies already do this. It's to track work crews for things like utility repairs, on-site troubleshooting, etc. It helps with scheduling and knowing who's close by when the next call comes in. There are plenty of 3rd party software packages that do this but when Google gets into the mix suddenly it's all 1984.

Re:WTF?

[pointyhat]

I doubt if it was a corporate device that the end user would know (regardless of the law). I'm off to close my gmail account now because this has disgusted me. Sorry but I will never support an organisation that promotes such things. Back to mutt and postfix!

Re:WTF?

[gstoddart]

when Google gets into the mix suddenly it's all 1984

No, because once the technology is available, some asshole at the C level will decide that all employees need to install this on their phone. Even if is a privately owned phone.

I don't want the government tracking where I am. I don't want my employer tracking where I am. I don't want Google tracking where I am. As soon as one of them has it, the rest of them will want access to the information.

But you're right, it sure as hell is 1984 ... once people start doing this, there's all sorts of ways it gets abused or suffers from scope creep.

Eventually it becomes a condition of employment, or any number of things. Categorically, DO NOT WANT.

Re:WTF?

[h4rr4r]

You realize lots of organizations already do this right?

Scheduling arrivals of service people and deliveries pretty much requires tracking them.

Re:WTF?

[hawguy]

I doubt this is for watching your office drones' every movement. It would be really handy for service-based businesses that need to dispatch workers to various locations. Think cable repair men. When a call comes in, the closest idle worker can be dispatched to the location. And all it requires is a cellphone.

Exactly - besides, cell phones aren't the best solution for in-building tracking. Employers that want to track employees inside building use RFID tags and Wifi tracking tags.

Re:WTF?

[NeutronCowboy]

Or, more importantly, tracking important shipments and the drivers who are tasked with delivering them. It goes from being able to provide excellent service (Bill is exactly 67 miles from your office) to knowing where it is when it has been high-jacked. This is going to replace a lot of homegrown stuff.

Re:WTF?

[chrismcb]

it combines a paid-for business version of Google's standard maps product with an application downloaded to a worker's smartphone, creating a real-time record of worker locations

Not to MY smartphone.

Re:WTF?

[WilyCoder]

If that scenario ever came to light I would make it my life goal to hack that tracking functionality.

A digital, freedom-fighter kind of hacking...

I'm dead serious.

People are so scared of technology being used to track everyone, and rightfully so.

But can' technology ALSO be used to UN-track people?

Just look at tor and bitcoin as embryonic examples of what I am trying to get at...

Re:WTF?

[Jahf]

rooted device + fakeGPS = workaround ... however ...

When they stop letting me use my personal device and/or refuse to let me root ... then we have an issue. An issue that shouldn't have occurred in the first place. I know I'd fight this.

As a full-time telecommuter I tend to work from coffee shops, restaurants, and waaaaay past normal work hours as it is. My productivity should be what they care about. If I am tethered to a desk and need to work normal office hours, that's fine, but my stuff will be OFF for the other 16 hours and they don't want that, either.

Re:WTF?

[drooling-dog]

Well, maybe if I could be assured that it was only on company time and wouldn't be used for an unreasonable level of micromanagement. However, we all should know by now that many employers won't stop there, and will insist on the ability to track you on your off-hours as well. It'll be the Facebook password fiasco all over again.

Employees are people that you pay in return for services rendered. They aren't property.

Re:WTF?

[hawguy]

I doubt if it was a corporate device that the end user would know (regardless of the law).

I'm off to close my gmail account now because this has disgusted me. Sorry but I will never support an organisation that promotes such things. Back to mutt and postfix!

Do you really think Google is the only provider for employee tracking?

You better stop using the internet too.... your packets are being routed over Cisco gear, and Cisco sells appliances that enable employers to track their employees via Wifi tags. By continuing to use the internet, you're supporting Cisco.

If you really wanted to take a stand against employee tracking, you'd push your legislators to make it illegal. Closing your gmail account accomplishes nothing (and no one really believes that you're going to do it unless you're already not using it) Though I do think there are many legitimate reasons for an employer to track employees, like tracking outside service technicians to predict when they will be able to go to their next call, making sure that the courier that's carrying cash between buildings doesn't make any unexpected detours (due to carjack or outright theft), tracking scientists in a lab for safety - i.e. if he enters a hazardous materials storage room but doesn't leave the room after X minutes, maybe someone should check on him, etc.

Re:WTF?

[nonameisgood2]

Scope creep... or a creep scope?

Re:WTF?

[hawguy]

when Google gets into the mix suddenly it's all 1984

No, because once the technology is available, some asshole at the C level will decide that all employees need to install this on their phone.

The technology has been available for years, yet few employers use it:

http://us.blackberry.com/smartphones/features/gps.jsp

Even if is a privately owned phone.

I don't want the government tracking where I am.

Too late, as long as your phone is powered on, the government can track you. No software needed.

Re:WTF?

[NatasRevol]

Pretty sure they at least need the software that talks to the cell towers....

Re:WTF?

[Minwee]

If that scenario ever came to light I would make it my life goal to hack that tracking functionality.

A digital, freedom-fighter kind of hacking...

How about just a "Leaving your phone on your desk" kind of hacking?

Or would that not be exciting and edgy enough?

Re:WTF?

[JonahsDad]

it could encourage productivity and for those of us who really go 100% during work time, the appreciation of our colleagues.

Says someone posting in the middle of the day on a Friday.

Yes, I realize there are plenty of reasons why these two items might not conflict. However given that it was posted AC, I reject said reasons.

Re:WTF?

[coinreturn]

But it will only show your location, not how hard you're working. Plenty of people are AT work but not DOING work.

Re:WTF?

[IorDMUX]

I can't believe people would be willing to do this.

I can think of plenty of industries where this is already done to some degree -- a Google maps integration would likely only help things. A few examples:

National Park Service rangers (often using radios, at the moment) The trucking/shipping industry (OmniTRACS and the like) Utility work (dunno... GPS?) Large scale mining/quarry/construction work (again, radios) Medical, security, and service at amusement parks (again, radios -- I've done this, it's pretty important to be able to know where person X or the guy with Y equipment is at any time)

And plenty more, I'm sure. In many cases, these employees are already given a work radio or phone to keep in contact. I doubt that most of these employees take their radios home, why would they take home their company phones?

I know people are worried about scope creep and big brother and the like, but this isn't as groundbreaking as it seems. Employers have had the ability to call you at home for a long time, now, and company vehicles are often very well tracked, yet most of us don't worry about our boss watching us sleep.

Did you actually look at the product description? It is an excellent example of Google organizing, compiling, and putting in one easy to use place information that most businesses already use to operate day-to-day. The groundbreaking feature is Google's ability to process the data... ... just take a look.

Re:WTF?

[CanHasDIY]

it's only a matter of time before your position on the map starts identifying you as visiting the local gay bar (if straight, strip club if gay) during work hours.

Huh... I was going to suggest a blanket party, but yea, that's a good one too!

Not to mention, no need to gather tube socks and bars of soap...

Re:WTF?

[CanHasDIY]

Strap it to a squirrel.

Or a Cessna.

Got access to a submersible?


Oh, the places you'll go...

Re:WTF?

[Gr8Apes]

it could encourage productivity and for those of us who really go 100% during work time, the appreciation of our colleagues.

No, it will lead to your "colleagues" despising you as the whiney narc that got the company to put tracking devices in their phones. And since no technology is perfect, it's only a matter of time before your position on the map starts identifying you as visiting the local gay bar (if straight, strip club if gay) during work hours.

It doesn't take much to defeat. Just leave your "company phone" in the drawer, set forwarding to your personal phone, and go where you want while you stay at your desk.

Re:WTF?

[JoeMerchant]

But you're right, it sure as hell is 1984

28 years late... 1984 was a cautionary dystopia, and also basically unavoidable after things like electronic transmission of sound and picture started developing. If you don't like the monitored life in Western cities, there's still 99% of the planet surface that's not covered by high resolution cameras 24/7, for now.

Also, carrying a cellphone is still optional to the vast majority of humans on the planet - most people choose to, benefits outweighing the costs.

If you don't like working a tracked job, don't drive a semi-truck, among other things. I have noticed that about 95% of tractor trailer trucks in the US seem to be obeying speed limits now, as opposed to about 5% in the pre-GPS tracking recorder days. While this may suck from a libertarian viewpoint, as a driver of a passenger vehicle on the highway, I think it is a major improvement.

Re:WTF?

[JoeMerchant]

But can' technology ALSO be used to UN-track people?

Like, leaving my tracked cell-phone at my workdesk, but having the calls forwarded to my untracked personal phone at the location of my chosing?

Re:WTF?

[JoeMerchant]

UPS/FedEx package tracking is hardly home grown.

Re:WTF?

[LateArthurDent]

You realize lots of organizations already do this right?

Scheduling arrivals of service people and deliveries pretty much requires tracking them.

No, it requires tracking the position of company cars. Which is acceptable.

Re:WTF?

[houghi]

It also is 1984, because Google has the data AND the technology to cross reference.

Re:WTF?

[hawguy]

Pretty sure they at least need the software that talks to the cell towers....

It's hardly a cell phone if it has no software to talk to cell towers, that device would be more appropriately called a "brick".

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is great - it could encourage productivity and for those of us who really go 100% during work time, the appreciation of our colleagues.

Careful what you wish for, bud. If you're going 100% and just keeping up with us slackers, then you'll get hosed if we ever start working like we actually mean it.

Re:WTF?

[h4rr4r]

How would that work when the employee uses public transit?

Which is the way these folks move around major metros like NYC.

In other areas they normally use their own vehicles. Again, tracking their phone is so far the easiest for everyone. These are company devices they can and do turn off when not on the job.

Re:WTF?

[Khyber]

I charge them out the ass for their usage of MY personal equipment (i.e. gas mileage reimbursement.)

And there's legal precedent already established for it.

That will put a quick stop to that bullshit.

Any other inane arguments?

Re:WTF?

[jkflying]

How about doctors who are on call, and you can know from their location which one to call for emergencies. Set up a framework so that their actual location is still confidential, but given a location it is possible to discover who is closest?

There are many situations where it would be useful, but like any new technology, it can also be abused. It all comes down to ethics at the end of the day.

Re:WTF?

[Anrego]

The primary usage of this seems to be for employees where location is important.

If your writing code, then yeah where you are doesn't matter. However if you're a field technician or repairman or anyone else who goes from site to site .. I can see the value of this tool. I know this goes against the hive mind here, but ignoring all the various slippery slope arguments, I think this kind of thing is reasonable.

Re:WTF?

[Anrego]

Totally agree.

This seems to be squarely targetted to the kind of people where this level ot tracking is reasonable and justified. This seems to build on what a lot of businesses either did through other means as you said, or manually (i.e. maps on the wall with little push pins). If you've got 10 field techs _somewhere_ out in the field.. knowing where they are and what they are doing is usually pretty necessary. Reading the description page, it actually looks like an almost obvious idea with a lot of polish and some neat features. The first thing google has put out in a while that didn't make me roll my eyes.

The fear about tracking employees outside work has always confused me. I can understand the facebook stuff.. misguided as it is. Some scummy employers see it as a low effort way of picking up on potential employee issues. That "low effort" bit is key. Getting any useful info by watching employee location info is certainly not low effort. I mean unless they are spending a lot of time at their competitions place there's not much usable info there. It just doesn't seem like a logical thing for even the most evil employer to do...

Re:WTF?

[xevioso]

This. Exactly.

Re:WTF?

[JonySuede]

well maintained*1 trucks speeding on the highway are blessing, they are so big that they block the cops radar for you and you get to save gas if you get into the zone where the air density is lower due to the drag caused by the truck trailer.

1-If you see rust, a tire with almost non-existent threading or any other signs if negligence get the fuck away because if a tire explodes you are dead !

Re:WTF?

[bill_mcgonigle]

I can't believe people would be willing to do this.

Heck, if there was a smartphone that could last a few days on a charge (so I'd be interested in owning one) I'd probably use this to track myself.

Ever forget, even just once, to write down your hours at a remote site and not catch it until billing time later on? Good luck trying to bill for hours you can't accurately account for. Eating an entire day's worth of job revenue because of a clerical error really hurts. I once tried using a Tom Tom to do this sort of data logging, but it was buggy on some hardware (but worked on others).

For many reasons, I'd prefer employees to have a work phone and a personal phone. Something like this should only be on a work phone that gets turned off during non-work hours. But, it's been shown that being tracked reduces field workers screwing-off on company time and so these solutions pay for themselves. n.b. - I've got no problem with a worker stopping off at the pub for a long lunch, but at least be honest and 'clock out' if you're having beers with your buds.

Re:WTF?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Think cable repair men

I'm going to avoid bashing the stereotype there, and just say that it's not all about improving service and customer satisfaction. I know some people who work in management at construction-industry companies, and they actually have a real problem with workers leaving the office in the morning and going on detours to run errands, stop off at the bar, even hit the arcade on the way to the job site. Or, leaving early in the afternoon, etc.

They have a real ethical problem when generating the bill for the client, if they're billing for hours when nobody was there. It's cheaper to eat the loss than to hire a foreman.

Spot checks help, somewhat. Sure, you could just fire all the less-than-honest workers, but then there are training costs, and the fact that those people will go work somwhere else, so it's just shifting the problem in societal terms.

It's sad to say, but some people just aren't honest, unless they're being held accountable. If we become what we do, something like this might even help train those sorts of people to be honest.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not the AC to which you refer... but don't you get a lunch break? I go home and chek news, slashdot, freecode, etc, on mine. I suppose you sit at your desk and keep on coding?

Re:WTF?

[WilyCoder]

I'm not a hardware guy... but is a faraday cage adequate enough to absorb the cell signal?

http://www.briangreen.net/2010/11/diy-ultralight-faraday-cage-pouch.html

Could the cage be tweaked to only block the cell signal and let wifi through? Then do VOIP calls over free public wifi?

I could be wrong about all this, but if you think of tracking as a form of DRM, then perhaps it can be "cracked"...

We had 'pirate' radio, where is the pirate ISP....

If congress makes it illegal to NOT be tracked, then we're in a very bad place as a country...

Re:WTF?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

People are so scared of technology being used to track everyone, and rightfully so.

But can' technology ALSO be used to UN-track people?

Remember how the DMCA does not make it illegal to "crack" DRM - only to give anyone a tool that would enable them to crack DRM. That's what they will do with untracking tools. Technically you will have the ability to roll your own untracking tools, but you won't be able to legally share those tools for collective improvement or any other reason. Bitcoin is freaking ripe for federal intervention (i.e. making it illegal to use bitcoins for payment).

Re:WTF?

[JonahsDad]

Ok, even though I already stated that I realized there were plenty of possible reasons, here's what was in my head:

1. European or other non-US time zone.
2. Vacation day.
3. Non-standard work week.
4. Lunch break if in PDT.
5. Other standard break (much like when I posed original comment).

Funny thing is, my original intention was to do a quick check of other posts to confirm a probable standard US time zone, then mod parent +1 funny. With all the obvious sarcasm, had parent not posted AC, would have earned at least a +1.

Re:WTF?

[avm]

Regulatory pressure with significant fines for noncompliance have a way of working like that. This coupled with customer demands to know where their freight is, and the vast majority of the trucks on the road being owned by large corporations is why you see such good behavior compared with previous years.

My company owned truck is governed at 62 MPH. We don't use the increasingly prevalent GPS tracking or electronic logs, but we toe the line anyway. A few fines for log or equipment violations can bankrupt a small company, render it uninsurable, and generally make life difficult.

Sure, there are still the loose cannons out there, but it is vastly cheaper and easier to comply.

Re:WTF?

[JoeMerchant]

Not to mention the fact that Jimmy Carter was right: 55 saves fuel.

Re:WTF?

[prowler1]

Agreed.

If your company has WiFi for you to connect to there is a good chance this is already happening to you without you even knowing it. The WiFi monitoring system my company uses also has a location tracking solution built into it. If you sign into your works WiFi then chances are you are being tracked.

The common excuse for this solution is if the employee is hurt, security can find them. http://www.arubanetworks.com/solutions/by-application/location-and-tracking/ I came across this friendly feature after upgrading the WiFi monitoring server for the networking team, I was surprised to see it and that you can also see where the person has been over a specified time period.

Worried about this technology being brought into your work place? Chances are it is already there.

Re:WTF?

[Raenex]

and you get to save gas if you get into the zone where the air density is lower due to the drag caused by the truck trailer.

And you get to qualify for a Darwin award.

Re:WTF?

[Johann Lau]

What if everyone is forced to make that choice?

Then it's not a choice, duh! Fucking newspeak.

Re:WTF?

[CrimsonAvenger]

I'm not a hardware guy... but is a faraday cage adequate enough to absorb the cell signal?

Neither am I, really.

On the other hand, rather than a Faraday Cage, my first thought was the O-N-O-F-F button....

Re:WTF?

[CrimsonAvenger]

Not to mention the fact that Jimmy Carter was right: 55 saves fuel.

Better to say that 55 trades fuel for time.

Gasoline isn't nearly expensive enough for me to be willing to take two days to get to my parents' house...

Re:WTF?

[JoeMerchant]

Not to mention the fact that Jimmy Carter was right: 55 saves fuel.

Better to say that 55 trades fuel for time.

Gasoline isn't nearly expensive enough for me to be willing to take two days to get to my parents' house...

Depends on the context - personal time, no, I'd rather get 15mpg at 100mph than 45mpg at 50mph.

Tractor-trailer delivery of food to the grocery store, since fuel is already more than half the cost of a lot of food, yeah, I'd like to save some fuel cost on my food, and if spoilage due to travel time is a problem, then just don't ship it as far - why the hell is my Florida grocery store is full of California oranges?

Re:WTF?

[JonySuede]

you forgot to read the end of post note...

Re:WTF?

[Raenex]

I read it. Knowing that you're taking a chance, and thinking that looking at the maintenance of the vehicle is going to make it safe deserves special mention on the award.

Re:WTF?

[JonySuede]

Well, having maintained truck trailers when I was in high school, I know that truckers hate that as it affect the mpg metric*1, but unless the truck is carrying logs what could happen behind a well maintained truck and trailer that could not happen behind a car ?

1- On a side note I just remembered who pays for all the porn ;)

Re:WTF?

[Raenex]

what could happen behind a well maintained truck and trailer that could not happen behind a car ?

You shouldn't be following close enough to a car to draft, either. A truck is worse because you can't see past it. It's also worse because it has more mass and will cause more damage.

Re:WTF?

[isorox]

It's no different than companies tracking workers who drive company-owned vehicles. There are many legitimate reasons to do this. Companies that do repair household appliance repair, or telecom technicians are tracked in order to give customers updated time estimates of when the employee will arrive.

I was in Baghdad a few years ago, had an app on my blackberry which ran in the background and turned on the microphone and alerted the safety team immediately if my phone left a certain area.

All for that type of tracking.

Where's the ethics?

[Picass0]

Everyone knows Larry Page has no respect for personal boundaries but the programmers at Google disappoint me for enabling his relentless pursuit of killing privacy.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[TheGratefulNet]

they turn a blind eye.

treat them like primadonnas, give them free lunch and fancy perks and they'll turn a blind eye.

seriously. its easy to convince kids (most are kids, lets be honest) to ignore long-term ethical considerations when , OOH SHINEY! is given to them, again and again.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Jeng]

Google's unofficial motto.

Information wants to be collated and sold!

Re:Where's the ethics?

[NatasRevol]

Reminds me of a project about 70 years ago. Even adults ignored long-term ethical considerations, until way too late.

What was it called? The Long Island Project? No. The Brooklyn Project? No. Something...

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Jeng]

So what exactly are the long-term ethical considerations one should have regarding a weapon that is too terrible for it to ever be used on a large scale? It's the small scale, easy to use weapons such as the AK-47 and land mines that are the least ethical.

The Manhattan Project invented the Best Boogeyman EVER!!

Re:Where's the ethics?

[lgw]

Yes. There has been no global-scale war since 2 countries had nukes. It's scary (hey, I grew up with the boimb, there were air raid sirens in my neighborhood, trested every Friday at noon), but aparanty it works.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[NatasRevol]

That doesn't remotely mean they're more ethical. That just means both/multiple sides are scared to use them.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Jeng]

In practice weapons that can be used by the individual are worse than weapons that requires thousands of people to use.

So yes, a bomb that can blow up an entire city and makes the city radioactive sounds really bad, luckily so bad they don't get used outside of two early proof of concept bombs. If it wasn't for the threat of nuclear warfare I have no doubts that the US and USSR would have at some point engaged in direct full fledged warfare. None of that silly cold war stuff.

The AK-47 is responsible for more deaths by far than nuclear weapons. And land mines kill and maim thousands of people a year, mainly non-combatants.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[NatasRevol]

Europe was in danger of being overrun by the axis. Not the world. Not even SE Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WWII.png
Blue is Axis countries.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[rtaylor]

Add up the number of deaths by nuke.

Now add up the numebr of deaths by gunshot.

Which is larger?

Re:Where's the ethics?

[NatasRevol]

That's still not good logic. Or ethics.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[sydneyfong]

Uh, so suppose I design and build this bomb that can blow up the world entirely.

And either it's not used (except it may be used to blackmail entire nations to do your bidding), so that means I'm on the ethical side. And if in the totally impossible case where an insane person gets his hands on it, there's no one to judge me!

May I call this a "most ethical weapon of mass destruction".

Re:Where's the ethics?

[sydneyfong]

You want numbers?

Add up the number of deaths by food poisoning.

I'm sure Chefs are more evil than people who detonate nukes. Those bastards!

And don't get me started on doctors. How many people died right after being treated by them? Remember, guns don't kill people, surgical knives do!

Re:Where's the ethics?

[lgw]

Yes, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? If you have a weapon so scary that it means an end to war, it that a good thing? It's certainly a scary thing, but ultimately I'd say it's a good thing as well.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Branciforte]

I'm confused. When has Google ever sold personal information?

Oh, you were just taking a potshot. Do carry on.

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Jeng]

Who said anything about personal information?

Re:Where's the ethics?

[Jeng]

My argument for nuclear weapons being more ethical than an AK-47 hinged on the fact that any idiot can pick up an AK-47 and use it, while on the other hand you need lots of knowledge and a lot of support personal to use a nuclear weapon.

So your bomb that can kill the world idea doesn't fit since as you said a single insane person could use it.

Soulskill

[geek]

Leave it to Soulskill to post this crap. Time to block the editor again eh? Sad how low the standards have gotten here.

Re:Soulskill

[kidgenius]

There's a difference between posting an article about a controversial new google technology. It's quite another to stretch it out and say google is being hypocritical for not using the tech to track their ceo who is out sick. Then to go on with stupid ramblings of "assure those shareholders who are worried..." It really is stupid.

Re:Soulskill

[rgbrenner]

I'm really really confused by your comment. How can you have a UID that low AND think slashdot has standards?

Re:Soulskill

[geek]

Alzheimers

Re:Soulskill

[NatasRevol]

So you buy that he lost his voice and won't be at the quarterly earnings meeting - In late July?

That doesn't smell suspicious to you?

Re:Soulskill

[CyberSnyder]

Watch it!!! ;-)

Re:Soulskill

[CrAlt]

get off my lawn!

Re:Soulskill

[bill_mcgonigle]

So you buy that he lost his voice and won't be at the quarterly earnings meeting - In late July?

I don't think Schmitt is lying - Page may very well have lost his voice. The question is what else has he lost? e.g. consciousness?

Use Google to get around Google?

[spiritgreywolf]

Maybe put your work phone on your desk, forward calls using Google voice to your personal cell phone. Problem solved on the occasion when you need to sneak out, maybe? ..I'm sure those brainiacs already covered that possibility?

Re:Use Google to get around Google?

[tlhIngan]

Maybe put your work phone on your desk, forward calls using Google voice to your personal cell phone. Problem solved on the occasion when you need to sneak out, maybe? ..I'm sure those brainiacs already covered that possibility?

Except Google shares data with Google now that they moved to a unified privacy model (courtesy Steve Jobs - makes you wonder if this was his revenge on Google). So the tracker probably lets you trace through Google Voice as well.

Re:Use Google to get around Google?

[Jeng]

I think phones would have better ways of telling if it is forwarding phone calls or not.

Unless you are thinking of the taping two phones together idea, but you would still have to hit the answer button for that to work.

permanent record of where everyone has been

[sl4shd0rk]

This will be popular until some corporate CEO's wife finds out where said CEO was during "lunch".

Re:permanent record of where everyone has been

[dkleinsc]

Who said the CEO would use this on himself? No, this kind of tracking is only for the peons.

CEO's do not equal rank-and-file employees

[unassimilatible]

So, why not reassure those worried about the situation by publicly tracking Page's location via Maps Coordinate?

Uh, because there would be no point? What does the CEO's location have to do with stock performance?

And I'm no Google fan (I'm an Apple stockholder), but there are obviously some security issues involving the whereabouts of a famous billionaire CEO (e.g., kidnap and ransom?) that don't apply to the rank-and-file employee.

Re:CEO's do not equal rank-and-file employees

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Uh, because there would be no point? What does the CEO's location have to do with stock performance?

Say, you're right! Let's stop paying them 500x what we pay rank-and-file employees while we're at it.

Re:CEO's do not equal rank-and-file employees

[swillden]

Larry Page's annual salary is $1.

He also doesn't get any stock or stock options... not sure about bonuses, but I don't think so. Of course, he personally owns a huge chunk of the $180B company, so it's not like he needs any direct income.

Re:CEO's do not equal rank-and-file employees

[swillden]

So why did you post? Just hit cancel next time.

The irony...

Re:CEO's do not equal rank-and-file employees

[swillden]

Do you know, then, that Page does get bonuses? According to Forbes, he does not -- his total compensation package is $1 per year. Obviously this is because as a founder he owns a large portion of the company. The point of my original post was that it makes no sense to complain about CEO compensation in the context of an article about Google.

Google minus one...

[mindmaster064]

There probably was a time when Google was a beneficent geek Mecca but it has morphed into a tyrannical beast. Apple and Google both make my list of disappointing companies whom have decided to use their new found power for evil. Everything Google has been doing has been concerned with undermining privacy or stifling innovation and frankly other than being forced to YouTube (for lack of alternates) I won't have anything to do with their products personally. It's time to let these power hungry money grubbing shitheads die -- they are not what they sold us in the beginning anymore.

Re:Google minus one...

[hackula]

...Sounds like a regular old company to me

Re:Google minus one...

[geek]

I too have issues with Google but this "story" isn't one of them.

Regardless, what are alternatives? I can't even pay for products that equal googles. I've actively looked for services as good as theirs that I can pay for and not be tracked or sold to the highest bidder. I have yet to find decent replacements to gmail, google maps, docs and search. I did switch my email over to an iCloud account since I have an iPhone and a Mac anyway but still, Apple isn't the most moral company either.

I've considered running my own services and may very well end up doing so soon. I'd rather pay someone decent though and not trouble myself with the admin overhead. I get enough of it at work, I don't need it at home too.

Re:Google minus one...

[mindmaster064]

I agree, but Google originally sold itself as an ethical cyber-citizen. Now it just comes off as a scam.

Re:Google minus one...

[mindmaster064]

I think the real dilemma is the psyche of the average consumer. Let's face it how many people need a cloud? It's a luxury that you're getting by subsidizing various evil empires. It's not always what you get, but rather what you endorse. I rather give an ethical company with less service the same money for a reduced service than give a corrupt one anything. Amazon provides these same services for most uses and I don't feel morally complicated by using them. They do not profit by me viewing ads or leaking my information everywhere. Some of the onus is on the user though -- blocking cookies, using tools like Collusion to see what sites are doing, and installing adblocking and hosts files. If they never get the impression they do not profit on you -- so think about that. Google search is certainly king, but you could use Duck Duck Go which is more like a search aggregation which wraps Google and others and filters the badness off of them. (Check their about page... they're really good...)

Re:Google minus one...

[geek]

I'd love to use DDG but it's blocked at my work :(

Re:Google minus one...

[jmerlin]

Well one problem is that they have an "apps for business" and they specifically market to businesses, but they offer no business features. For instance, not having the software change on you. It's not a business feature for software to significantly change over-night requiring re-training of employees. That's a reason not to buy/use software, if anything. For that reason, almost any other service is better than any of their apps. How would you like it if your SQL db automatically updated itself and broke half your triggers and queries, or if your programming language was constantly being updated with backwards compatibility not a primary focus and you couldn't compile on an older version, thus requiring you to rewrite millions of lines of code every few months, potentially? That's pretty much the same impact a massive UI usability downgrade has on a large company that relies on a google app would have (like the recent GMail interface epic wtf fail).

Re:Google minus one...

[TheGratefulNet]

it has backfired on them, with many of us geeks.

non-geeks seem to like google and don't see or can't see the dark side. they also are fine with apple and MS, too, usually.

the geeks largely did take google on their word to not be evil. its been shown that this is no longer the case (hasn't been for quite some time) and while that brings them down to where every other mega-corp is, it stings worse when your confidence has been shaken or you feel you have been intentionally lied to or misled.

if google just was always an ad-company and was shameless about it, we could accept it for what it is, like many others. but they acted like they were inherently good and would always be doing the 'right thing'. we feel more betrayed since they sugar-coated their lie and kept saying it, with a straight face, for so long.

we get that they collect and sell info. and whatever gets us to their pages, where they collect our 'web-prints', is just a cost overhead to them disguised as a product or service to the users.

I really wonder if googlers think about this stuff, at night. do they see where their company is going? all the things they do and the plans they have? they are ok with this? I really wonder.

Re:Google minus one...

[Nethead]

I ran my own mailserver for over a decade, still do. Now it just .forwards to my gmail account. The interface is just too sweet and the spam detection is too good. The new 'importance' filter is just unbelievable. No way in hell I could lego together FOSS to do the same thing, I've tried.

Re:Google minus one...

[Areyoukiddingme]

Speak for yourself. They're still a long way from evil in my book, especially since a lot of what you apparently object to is easily avoidable—tracking cookies can be disabled and deleted, there are many other mail providers (including the ability to host your own if you have an even halfway reasonable ISP with pseudo-static or static IPs), there are other web app providers, and you sure as hell don't have to use an Android phone. Even search can be used in obfuscated, anonymized form, if it really bothers you.

Meanwhile, some of us think Android was an incredibly valuable gift. You would prefer, perhaps, an unassailable Apple hegemony in smart phones? Really?

Not to mention Google successfully bullied the FCC into approving Whitespace Devices, which will go a long way toward cleaning up the spectral mess that wifi has become.

Not to mention Google is trying their hand at being a direct-to-customer fiber-to-the-home internet service provider, an arena that desperately needs a non-telco non-cable competitor.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if Google's tracking habits are successfully tracking you against your will, you're not a very good geek.

Re:Google minus one...

[Branciforte]

Here is the Google deal: There are producers and there are consumers and they make up the economy. That's just a fact. And, unless you are a hermit, you participate in one or both groups. Producers and consumers want to find each other. How? Well, there was the old way, where producers spent a fortune broadcasting their message all over the place, littering TV, print media, and your mailbox with crap you did not want to see. And fortunes were spent on that, more than small businesses could afford, and whole forests were destroyed. There is a large cost of entry so you could blanket the world with your message which got lost among all the other large companies doing the same thing.

Or, we could target the messages. Much more efficient. Small players can now afford to advertise. The change to consumers is that they still see as many ads, but they are now less random. Small producers can afford to get their message to just the people who might be interested. Small consumers get tons of free services in exchange to seeing ads that might be something they are interested in. Everybody wins, except the conventional companies who have a vested interest in maintaining their distribution and information hegemonies.

No company does more to protect your privacy than Google. Your information never leaves the datacenter and is never viewed by human eyes. You can see just what information they collect by visiting your account page. You can use Chrome Incognito mode to do things you don't want anyone knowing about. You can turn off tracking completely if you like. If you leave it on, you are helping promote a more efficient economy where small businesses can compete against larger companies with huge advertising budgets. You are free to turn it all off, but don't turn it off just because some hipster IT geek likes to shout wolf.

Re:Google minus one...

[Branciforte]

I work for Google. I don't see where Google has become evil, unless I were dumb enough to believe all the FUD and sensationalism spread by a certain few companies, and bloggers who are trying to get attention. I get it: It's the hipster geek thing to do, to cry out about how Google is evil, so you can look like you are wise and worldly, when in fact you are just parroting FUD.

I had to fly out to one of the data centers recently, so I reserved a ride from one of the shuttle companies that services the local airport. Because they tracked the location of the shuttle, I was able to hang out at my desk and do email until I got an automated alert that the shuttle had almost arrived. This, instead of spending 30 minutes sitting outside with my bags as the shuttle encounters inevitable traffic delays. This is what the tracking system does. If some company uses it for evil purposes, then complain about that company. Just as some companies can use firewalls and routers to block or monitor traffic. But those things are not evil in themselves.

Get a clue.

Google Maps+ The NEW way to stalk HOT co-workers!

[mindmaster064]

Sorry... Couldn't resist. :)

Ugh

[Simulant]

Borders on evil.

Re:Ugh

[SirGarlon]

If this only "borders on" evil, I'd hate to see what you consider "definitely evil."

Re:Ugh

[coinreturn]

The FAR side of the border (as in already crossed over).

Re:Ugh

[Branciforte]

Whether it is evil or not depends on what people do with it. Email is not evil, but can be used for evil. Anything can be used for evil.

The person who submitted this summary is obviously an anti-Google FUD spreader. They submitted the story, referred to a secondary article instead of the original story, because they have an agenda. They purposely colored the story as "Google sells software for tyrannical bosses to put leashes on every employee." If someone actually does that, then yes, they are evil.

If they use this for the purpose for which Google designed it, I don't see how that is evil. Which delivery vehicle is closest to the pickup? Which ambulance is closest to the accident? Exactly when will my taxi arrive?

Seriously, think it through.

I am not Waldo or Carmen Sandiego.

[fahrbot-bot]

Perhaps it's just me, but when I'm not at work, or traveling for work, it's none of my company's fucking business where I am.

Re:I am not Waldo or Carmen Sandiego.

[SirGarlon]

That may be true, but unless and until there is a law protecting your privacy in a meaningful way, your opinion on what is and is not any of your employer's business is irrelevant. They can get the data, so all they need is a motive.

Re:I am not Waldo or Carmen Sandiego.

[fahrbot-bot]

That may be true, but unless and until there is a law protecting your privacy in a meaningful way, your opinion on what is and is not any of your employer's business is irrelevant. They can get the data, so all they need is a motive.

You make an interesting point, but should I ever be supplied with a company phone with this type of tracking enabled, my employer will only ever find that I apparently spend a lot of time in my desk drawer :-) If they don't like it, I'm happy go work somewhere else... (I'm also in the financial position where I don't need a job anymore.)

Re:I am not Waldo or Carmen Sandiego.

[T Murphy]

This is for businesses where knowing the location of your employees is a significant factor in your ability to do business. Delivery (UPS, pizza..), on-site service (in-home or in-office services, like computer repair, or utility crews repairing infrastructure), emergency response personnel. Many of these kinds of companies (and government services) already have some form of employee tracking.

Given that employers tried to demand Facebook login information, and the government is saying "no", I think we can safely assume that inappropriate use of this technology would get similar attention.

Track the top executive?

[zerovampire311]

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's a reasonable shot to call them out for not tracking their CEO. If it were planned to use him as a demo, sure, but I don't think ANY company in the world would track the location of their CEO, and I don't think any non-journalistic/antagonizing perspectives would expect them to "Eat their own dog food" in this case.

4 possibilities to "opt out" of

[retroworks]

1) Do not give workers cell phones and do not track them

2) Do give workers cell phones and do not track them.

3) Do give workers cell phones and do track them.

4) Do not give workers cell phones and do track them.

In any of these cases, employees can "Opt Out" (quit). Even a 10% quit rate would probably cause a company to rethink its strategy. The question is, are 10 percent more likely to quit over not being given a phone, or for being tracked? At our company, we give the staff cell phones but only track truck drivers in order to know where the trucks are during their routes. Since the CEO is not a truck driver, his phone is not tracked. Is that hypocracy? Or maybe the truck drivers just don't realize they are being exploited? Ugh, It gets so complicated, this process of giving devices to employees to improve their productivity...

Re:4 possibilities to "opt out" of

[coinreturn]

5) My company phone keeps "breaking" for some reason.

Re:4 possibilities to "opt out" of

[rmdingler]

Mod up

Google

[pitchpipe]

Google Employee #1(Joe): Bob, we have this product that enables a business to see where all its workers are at all times.

Google Employee #2(Bob): But isn't our motto 'Do no Evil'?

Joe: Bob, does your wife know where you were last night? We do Bob, WE do.

Re:Liability

[Billly Gates]

This will be popular until some corporate CEO's wife finds out where said CEO was during "lunch".

You bring up a point even if the CEO!=worker.

What if some hotshot divorce lawyer uses this and hires a hacker or someone at work to find Bob had an affair. Bob could sue MegaCorp and Bob's wife could file a lawsuit if the company refuses to hand over documents and would have to pay subpoena costs for the whole non job related affair.

It could get even worse in sexual harassment cases. The supreme court ruled the corporation is liable for a hostile work environment at a bar if a boss sexual harasses an employee out of the office off the clock. This would provide plenty of evidence for the lawyers to drool over. What is next, MegaCorp knew Joe drove home from a bar at a business trip and did a DUI and killed a family of 4 but MegaCorp didn't stop him??? Yes bartenders and employers are liable if they know an intoxicated worker is leaving the premises. Now we have proof etc.

My phone is dumb.

[cpu6502]

Good luck with any company trying to track it. In fact my phone is so old, it has an analog transceiver for use on old networks (like rural Wyoming). So I don't care if my company TRIES to track me; they will fail.

Re:My phone is dumb.

[Raenex]

Damn, you're dumb. If they want to track employees, they'll give you the smartphone as a work phone to carry around if you don't have one. The cost of a phone is peanuts in comparison to employee compensation.

Growth industry

[Caerdwyn]

Think of all the economic activity this will generate: Blackmail - "Hey, Mr. CEO, I wonder if your wife knows you were at that leather bar at 10:40pm last night."
Industrial espionage - "The CEO was tracked to the headquarters of a certain component supplier. Could this mean an entry into a certain hardware market?"
Kidnapping - no. That's not even close to a joke. It happens.
Assault - "Today, protesters hounding a CEO turned violent as they cornered him at a local coffee shop..."

Yeah, I think it's best for everyone involved that it doesn't happen. There are legitimate uses for position-tracking (delivery truck driver, armored car services, school busses, etc.), but if you're not in a position which explicitly requires such tracking, no fucking way.

And despite all the knee-jerk CEO-hate that college freshman have, no, it's not okay to force physical risk and privacy invasion onto someone else, even IF they are a big bad scary exploiting evil-because-he-has-money-and-you-don't CEO. This is why we don't let children make decisions for others.

Still waiting for GPS!

[Maxo-Texas]

Frequently encountered on my samsung epic galaxy using GPS applications.

It (and the iphone before it) show me thousands of feet or even miles away from where I really am a few times a week.

Solution is GPS Status (reset GPS, download a tiny file).

But at least twice a month that doesn't work and i have to REBOOT the damn phone.

Lost his voice?

[Skapare]

Isn't there an Android app that is a copy of Stephen Hawking's voice?

Re:Google Maps+ The NEW way to stalk HOT co-worker

[jmerlin]

That's what you'd tell them, right? Sorry, but I couldn't resist!

Lost His Voice

[Greyfox]

Oh, here's your problem, when you Google "Larry Page's Voice" you get all these crap news articles about how Larry Page lost his voice, not where he might find it again. I assume he looked in all the usual places; the car, under the couch in the employee break room. Maybe he should implement GPS tracking for his voice in case this happens again.

Re:Lost His Voice

[subject_name_here]

I suppose Google only got him sponsored results. Maybe it's time to switch to DuckDuckGo.

Seems to me...

[pahles]

it isn't Larry Page who is MIA but his voice!

The Pacific and African Theatres

[reluctantjoiner]

I'd say that South East Asia actually was overrun, given the fall of Singapore and the subsequent attack on Darwin.

So to say that only Europe was in danger of being overrun by the Axis is understating things a little.

It can have an influence on stock performance

[aepervius]

"Uh, because there would be no point? What does the CEO's location have to do with stock performance? "


Let us put it that way if his location is at home, there would not be a bump. But if his location is at the cancer ward in a patient room outside of visiting hour ? You can betcha there will be repercution on stock, warranted or not.

Uh, moron...

[unassimilatible]

Steve Jobs DOES NOT EQUAL Larry Page.