Witness Ridicules 'Hands-On' Reviews of Surface

Freshly Exhumed writes "Danny Sullivan over at Marketing Land has been tipped over the edge by various colleagues: 'After seeing yet another "hands-on" review of the Microsoft Surface tablet, I thought it would be interesting to shed more light on what exactly the journalists who assembled in Hollywood this week for the Surface launch event actually got to do with the tablets. In short, not a lot. Come along as I explain the hands-off reality of what I saw.' In response to Sullivan's criticisms, TechRadar contributor Mary To Many rebuts that merely touching something that does not operate nor even truly exist equates to an actual hands-on review. So, what do Slashdotters expect a "hands-on" review to reveal and/or include?"

Comments

"Reviews"

[tsa]

Most "Reviews" I see on the 'net are just summaries of what you find in the product folder, nothing more. So what's new about this?

Re:"Reviews"

[Anonymous Coward]

Tech reviewers step on each others toes to be "first". They all have the quality of "the first post" on slashdot.

Have you ever seen a review of a Linux distro coming out a month after release? - Nooo! The all come out a day before, waxing hot about how easy it was to install and how good is the color scheme.

Re:"Reviews"

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It's probably going to get even worse now that so much of the new hotness is in functionally embedded systems that ship tied to hardware...

With software, the vendor essentially faces the choice of keeping it under wraps, or of having pre-release builds leaking all over the damn place. Maybe if it's just a handful of partner companies with some seriously mean NDAs; but once it gets to the journalist level you can forget about it(analogous to the Oscar screeners that get leaked every damn time, despite being subject to just about everything short of armed guard...)

Hardware, though, with the exception of the occasional unit that...um...goes missing in a bar, is easier to keep a tight grip on. Plus, very-late-prototype hardware, in limited quantities, is inevitably available to the vendor a modest period before retail hardware is available. That sort of thing is perfect for rewarding, or punishing, media outlets. Play ball, and you'll be seeing a sample unit in the mail in time to have your benchmarks and review done before the other guys get back from Best Buy. Don't, and you can read your competitor's reviews while you wait in line to buy something to review...

This sort of thing has gone on for years in the gaming-enthusiast-wanking sector of CPU, GPU, and motherboard reviews; but it hasn't really been all that relevant. Enthusiasts care a lot; but there just aren't a lot of enthusiasts, so it was mostly just sideshow, and the truth usually managed to surface by the time whatever the product was trickled down to the '80% of the speed, 20% of the price' market where people actually buy things.

Now that the 'mainstream' devices are tightly embedded hardware units, though, there will likely be a lot more room for the same sort of shenanigans that rule enthusiast hardware wank to worm their way into mainstream tech coverage.

Re:"Reviews"

[hairyfeet]

Well I don't know about the mobile stuff but most of the "hands on" reviews I've seen on the PC side equals them putting the hardware through the paces and seeing what it can do. I remember reading one before the AMD E-Series chips had been released where they went to the trouble of bringing their own SSD loaded with testing tools just so they could get a few benches and see what the unit could do.

So if all MSFT is doing is turning the unit on and letting them go through some carefully scripted demos? Sorry that's not hands on as far as I'm concerned, that's just marketing BS.

Re:"Reviews"

[ackthpt]

Tech reviewers step on each others toes to be "first". They all have the quality of "the first post" on slashdot.

While some First Posts have actually had some merit, a lot of First Reviews are missing some real world sit-down-and-see-what-this-can-do impressions. As far as I care a Real Hands On Review means the reviewer has it for the weekend, or such, and takes it around with them, tries various things in various settings. You get more insight from someone who has actually done something with an item rather than been part of the cattle herd at the official event.

Re:"Reviews"

[Anonymous Coward]

And as it turns out, they didn't even get to do that. Sounds like they got to bring it to the desktop and *bam!* "Nothing to see here, let's move along."

  Mary, the TR reviewer could have just said "Well, headline writers get overenthusiastic sometimes. Instead, she spent a lot of words weasling around the fact that MS didn't really let them do anything with the units. She kind of passes that off with a giggle and a "Oh, that darn MIcrosoft!" comment, but Many was right to be critical. And since the TechRadar POLICY says "hands on" means they "...have been able to play with it ourselves and can give you some sense of what it's like to use, even if it's only an embryonic view.", he was right that all the "hands on" headlines were bullshit, too. (That "sense of what it's like to use" doesn't really mean "what it feels like to hold an inert one", does it?)

This ends up being a quibble about wording in a policy, so there's nothing to see here, either.

Re:"Reviews"

[ackthpt]

As an addendum - I've been looking at a new DSLR and was taking in a few videos on Youtube last night. One unpacking was matter of fact, with a little information I found useful. Another was rife with attitude as the reviewer simply pulled stuff out of the box and flipped it aside without even mentioning what it was, I could only take so much of that. Found one more review, which, while humorous and quite long, showed what was included in the box and then took the camera on a walk around, trying it on various subjects, lighting etc. Then brought back into a studio setting to try various things with it. It was clearly the best and most informative review and I had the distinct impression the reviewer was quite interested in exploring various new features and showing them to the viewer. Some people are throwing reviews onto Youtube, just to be first, which is rather useless fodder.

Obviously a functional unit

[Karmashock]

MS's problems are really kind of bizarre. It's not for lack of talent or trying they just keep screwing up. It has to be management. You don't get such systematic across the board f' ups unless management is behind it.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Samantha Wright]

It's management alright. It's been management for years. Microsoft consistently hires the best people in the field (well, those that Google doesn't snag—prior to that, though, they were nearly unchallenged, and consequentially MS has had a huge number of very respectable older researchers and engineers, including a large contingent of ex-DEC people) and then squashes them with bad managers, who spend so much time politicking and infighting that they can't recognize genius like the Courier.

Unfortunately this is an increasing trend in the whole software industry; the very recent example of Diablo 3's utter failure to live up to hype, even though it's now the fastest-selling game in history, can largely be attributed to management changes in Activision. The underlying problem seems to be hiring management and leadership from non-computing sectors instead of promoting from within, although in MS's case it's more like a long-term family feud.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

While some here on slashdot debate who copied whom first, I think we can agree MS tried to copy Apple's style of product announcements but they missed some key details. When Apple announces a new product, the product is already being shipped from China to their stores. As such Apple has a launch date and pricing detailed. The only exception is probably the original iPhone but Apple explained the 6 month lead time was because Apple couldn't keep it a secret as they had to get FCC approval. But Apple did list price and an estimated quarter.

Because the product is pretty much ready, Apple can rehearse the entire presentation ad nauseum to make sure it works. At best MS had a working prototype of Surface. However, the Surface tablet froze in the middle of the presentation. It's an incident that anyone who had done a product demo dreads. The most glaring gaffe at an Apple announcement was when Jobs couldn't get the original iPhone to surf the web via wifi. The technician traced the problem to too many wifi users at once which isn't a big deal. I think MS timed the PR event to follow Apple as Apple had their WWDC a week earlier to try to steal the thunder of everyone talking about the new MacBook Pro Retina displays.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

It feeds down form the top. "Balmy Balmer" is a real piece of work, and Bill was notorious for managing by screaming like a petulant child. You don't get a layer of calm, rational management under CEOs like that, you get a rabbit-warren of hate, paranoia, and fear.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Karmashock]

I largely agree.

The MBAs are very useful for administration but that doesn't mean they need to be in charge. Subordinate them to secretarial functions and give actual department control to people that actually know what is going on.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not only that I think the Surface launch was premature, but didnt coordinate with any other branch of MS for a huge release. Not enough detail about pricing or whether it had 3G or LTE or wifi only, no information about worldwide availability. All they've done is stop anyone wanting to buy any other windows tablet until they see what MS are going to do, just in case. Dell actually have a working tablet that I've seen the MS evangelists with, but it costs nearly NZ$3000, and that is just not going to fly, when you can buy an ultrabook for less than NZ$2000. Thats also what killed the Pen tablets BTW, was the cost. I had a nice HP TC4400 and that ran with a pen just fine, but it cost a fortune, and the battery life was abysmal. It runs Windows 8 just fine, but my iPad is faster to start, easier to use and runs all day on a charge. My "Pen Tablet" pretty much sits un used now.
Only days later they also released information on Windows Phone 8, and this was also just after the big games conference, and I still havnt seem MS say how they are going to improve the Metro interface for us old fashioned mouse users. The hidden charms are just painful to use, the horizontal scrolling is pointless with a mouse with only a vertical scroll wheel. and Metro IE just looks like a joke on a 24" display 8)
Even my 9 year-old called it a kinder-surprise browser, and though initially it was something from LeapPad.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Omestes]

Unfortunately this is an increasing trend in the whole software industry; the very recent example of Diablo 3's utter failure to live up to hype, even though it's now the fastest-selling game in history, can largely be attributed to management changes in Activision [teamliquid.net].

Er... you realize you have a contradiction in that statement, right? "Utter failure to live up to hype" and "fastest selling game in history" don't really work together. Also you ignore the fact that the Blizzard side of Activision-Blizzard, and the Activision side of it are separate, and wholly autonomous. Or at least I haven't seen a single credible, informed, source stating otherwise. Even your link amounts to little more than a conspiracy theory, linking disparate facts into a structure without any actual evidence towards the premise. Yes, there might be the same masters (which Blizzard has had before), but this doesn't really mean much since you don't actually know whats going on. For all we know they are hands-off of Blizzard since they are the most profitable game company in existence so they must be doing something right (as evident from Diablo 3, which is justifiably making money hand over fist).

That said, and back on topic: I think MS has a behemoth problem, they are so large, and their fingers are in so many pies, that they lack the ability to quickly adapt to anything. I'm going to get flamed here, but many of their "failures" have actually been pretty decent, but they failed to grasp the market, or marketing, needed to make it work. They try to win by sheer weight, and not by finesse. This works sometimes (Office, the IE domination of yore, Exchange), but generally fails in a non-business arena. The iPod and the Zune weren't really that different, with one being better in some areas, and the other in others, but the Zune completely died because you can't compete on pure specs, especially with Apple (the masters of image and sexy). I suppose this does boil down to managment, but also to the fact that they are MS... Its hard to say "Microsoft" (insert picture of Bill Gates/Balmer)" and "sexy" in the same breath, much less sell it to the masses.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

The technician traced the problem to too many wifi users at once which isn't a big deal.

Only if you live inside the reality distortion field. What, you want to use your WiFi at a conference, or a busy place like an airport, or the university cafeteria? You can't, but no big deal. Oh, and you're holding it wrong.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

So you're saying that a clogged wifi network causing glitches during the middle of a presentation of product using wifi(which isn't a fault of the product but the network devices) is totally the same thing as a product freezing in the middle of a presentation. What world do you live in?

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[citizenr]

However, the Surface tablet froze in the middle of the presentation.

Not only that, later on presenter was trying to show camera widget and it "only" took him 4 tries :). I stopped watching after that.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

"Utter failure to live up to hype" and "fastest selling game in history" are not at all a contradiction. Big budget games are now like big budget movies, where sometimes the hype is so great that they score gigantic initial sales and most of those people say it sucks. The difference being that in movies, it's more easily tracked because the number of repeat customers will be very low relative to blockbusters people enjoyed.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Karmashock]

Hmmm... Blizzard is one of those companies that could pinch a turd off in the toilet and sell millions of copies of it so long as it has their logo on it.

That fan loyalty however was hard won by delivering good games.

Blizzard might have made money but they lost respect and lost credibility. Their ability to do that again is reduced. Think of when Disney started opening disney stores all over and completely devalued their animation department?

The company died a little. And even now they haven't recovered from what Michael Eisner did to them.

What is happening to Blizzard is comparable. They're being sold out.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Its hard to say "Microsoft" (insert picture of Bill Gates/Balmer)" and "sexy" in the same breath, much less sell it to the masses.

But you can say MS and sexchange in the same breath and sell it to the masses, try it -- "MS Exchange."

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

So you're saying that a clogged wifi network causing glitches during the middle of a presentation of product using wifi(which isn't a fault of the product but the network devices) is totally the same thing as a product freezing in the middle of a presentation.

Yes, and I gave examples of why, as a non-fanboy, I'd have cause for concern. I saw the Jobs video and cringed while watching it. Placing the blame on the WiFi devices instead of the product is ridiculous. Do you expect everybody to turn off their device in a crowded area, or do you expect your product to work in such places?

What world do you live in?

Outside the reality distortion field.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Samantha Wright]

Just to wrap up the Blizzard talk and defend my position: no, it's not a contradiction; the available statistics suggest that a lot of people bought the game, and then have failed to continue playing it. It sold very quickly at first, but now no one wants it. The hype sold it, but the game itself hasn't succeeded in holding onto that player base. Many of the patch changes nevertheless appear to correspond to the agenda put forth by Activision's new management in the aforementioned conspiracy theory, even if Activision doesn't actually have direct influence in Blizzard's management: continued nerfing despite promises not to do so, removing drops from destructible objects, and only slightly modifying the difficulty of Elite monsters all appear to imply that the company wants to force players to participate in the real money auction house in order to finish the game.

Even if you dismiss all of the above as circumstantial, and want to completely ignore the prospect that Blizzard is prioritizing profitability over not alienating their fan base, it's still very apparent that Diablo 3 doesn't have the same class flexibility as Diablo 2, and that a very vocal group of fans considers the game broken. I've heard that Blizzard's testers couldn't actually complete the game on the hardest difficulty, and that they knowingly shipped the game in that state. While a tiny number of people were able to complete Inferno difficulty, Blizzard still decided to patch it to be easier, which they rolled out just last Tuesday. To me, that sounds very much like bad planning (if not another attempt to force people to gear up in the auction house), and the sort of thing we should attribute to managerial failure.

At this point, with Microsoft, I really, truly believe that people are so conditioned to hate their products that they can't rightly succeed any more with their current brands. This is the fate of all greedy computer companies, I think.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Omestes]

... where sometimes the hype is so great that they score gigantic initial sales and most of those people say it sucks.

I'm not really sure that "most" people actually would say it sucks. In real life (i.e. ignoring Metacritic, Diablo forums, and Amazon) I haven't met anyone who actually thinks it sucks, or is nearly as bad as the internet makes it seem. Same goes for most of the people I've met in random public games. Hell, actually playing it, I can't say it sucks (not as good as some things, much better than others).

Part of the problem is that their audience is much, much, bigger than when their "classic" games came out. And much of the internet is a very different, and much more idiotic and hostile place. A lot of that new audience are WoW players, and thats what they wanted, or expected. A lot of it is nostalgia trumping clarity; "it isn't as good as Diablo 2, therefore it sucks". This ignores that fact that Diablo 2 had a fair share of problems on launch, and also wasn't actually the shining pinacle of gaming that everyone remembers. Nothing can beat nostalgia. It also isn't Diablo 2.5, since they decided to actually try new systems for once. Part of it is that people have philosophical differences with where Blizzard is going (no LAN, real money auction house). Inferno (the end game) is too hard... Classes aren't balanced (its a single player/coop game, who cares?).

There are also a lot of silly conspiracy theories running around, and a lot of uncorroborated group think (the "hacks" scandal). I've actually never seen anything quite like the vocal brouhaha that followed the release of the game. Especially considering that many people HATE the game, but put in 180 hours. I don't think I've actually ever played a game that much, especially in a period of time less than a month, since I was 15. And meanwhile Blizzard is laughing their way to the bank.

There is too much ire to be simply people not liking it, or merely sucking. There are thousands of games that suck, that die in obscurity. But for some reason this one needs the internet to run around making mouth noises about it. Playing the game, and ignoring my shining memory of Diablo 2, I can honestly say that it is a pretty damn decent game.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Omestes]

What is happening to Blizzard is comparable. They're being sold out.

By whom, to whom?

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[dead_user]

By Blizzard, to Activision.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Karmashock]

Perhaps a better phrase would be "hollowed out"... the insides sucked out leaving a shell.

Everything that was special about blizzard will soon be little more then a memory if they don't change course and quickly. D3 is a continuation of the WoW path. Blizzard might have made most of their money from WoW but WoW isn't why customers trusted them enough to sign on to WoW.

They built that on the back of their RTS and hack and slash franchise history. They pulled that community. It will only accept so many betrayals. And once it's gone well, it has to be reearned. And most companies never earn that sort of trust. Ever. So the ability to reearn that sort of thing once lost is minimal.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

The technician traced the problem to too many wifi users at once which isn't a big deal.

Only if you live inside the reality distortion field. What, you want to use your WiFi at a conference, or a busy place like an airport, or the university cafeteria? You can't, but no big deal. Oh, and you're holding it wrong.

Eh? You've never tried to connect to an AP that simply couldn't handle any more connections?

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Omestes]

he available statistics [xfire.com] suggest that a lot of people bought the game, and then have failed to continue playing it. It sold very quickly at first, but now no one wants it.

You might be right, but I can't tell from that. I don't know how they are measuring this, and I have no clue what Xfire even is. Also, I don't know what to compare that too, how does a game launch of comparable size compare. Again, for all I know, you are 100% correct.

Many of the patch changes nevertheless appear to correspond to the agenda put forth by Activision's new management in the aforementioned conspiracy theory, even if Activision doesn't actually have direct influence in Blizzard's management: continued nerfing despite promises not to do so [battle.net], removing drops from destructible objects, and only slightly modifying the difficulty of Elite monsters all appear to imply that the company wants to force players to participate in the real money auction house in order to finish the game.

I think the community has a lot to do with the nerfs. Inferno was supposed to be impossible, and everyone complained about it NONSTOP, and very loudly. If anything they made the penultimate difficulty LESS difficult, which, one would think, would lessen the need for cash purchases of items. There has been a lot of changes that the community has spun into "Blizzard wants money!!", that can also be seen at face value. Nerfing some builds did open other options, as much of the Demon Hunter nerfs did, they increased the amount of perceived viable builds. I'm okay with this. I wouldn't be okay, though, with them nerfing things to benefit the RMAH (real money auction house). I haven't seen much evidence of this. Companies always patch games, especially Blizzard. They are known for being aggressive patchers, look at the patch notes for Diablo 2 and expansion.

I've heard that Blizzard's testers couldn't actually complete the game on the hardest difficulty, and that they knowingly shipped the game in that state.

When they said that, my mind screamed "hyperbole". But I still, if true, wouldn't take that as a negative. Further, you don't need to really ever use the auction house, the RMAH, or any other social feature of the game to have fun. It might be more work, but it still fun to try. I'm working my way through Act II, and haven't spend a cent of real money, and only a small amount in the in-game money AH. I probably die more than the people who want to spend money, but I'm fine with that.

I probably sound like a "fanboy" or some such here. I do have complaints about the game, but I figure its pointless to voice them since they've been said by others ad nauseum. I also really can't tell how it stacks against Diablo II, since nostalgia rears its ugly undependable head. I'm also much older than I was back then, I have a life now, I have hobbies that don't involve sitting in front of a computer in a dark room, I have experience with more things, and my tastes have changed. I want to say Diablo 2 was better, but I can't really. I was in the Torchlight 2 beta, and I didn't enjoy it as much as I felt I should have, or would have 10 years ago.

At this point, with Microsoft, I really, truly believe that people are so conditioned to hate their products that they can't rightly succeed any more with their current brands. This is the fate of all greedy computer companies, I think.

I don't even know if its hate... On places like Slashdot, sure, but out there in userland... I'm pretty sure it is mostly apathy. When you (Joe Sixpack) think of Microsoft you think of Windows, something that you are forced to use at work, or Office, something that you are forced to use at work. Or you think of that incomprehensible beige box sitting in your home office, that your kid has to fix for you. The problem with Microsoft, for most people, is probably that it leaves no impression on them.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[cratermoon]

Microsoft does hire the best people in the field, but they also have a retention problem. Just look up the big names that are former MS folks. Among the things credited to ex-Microsofties: Picnik, stackoverflow, Zillow, Valve, Cranium, and Zappos.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

Do you understand what network congestion is right? Cause it seems that you seemingly don't understand the term "bandwidth". You do understand how a router works right? During the demonstration, many devices including the iPhone had problems getting data from wifi as the network was swamped. As soon as Jobs asked everyone to stop using the network, suddenly the iPhone was able to pull data. The next demonstration, Apple set up a network just for their devices so it wouldn't happen.

To use a car analogy, that's as idiotic as a car manufacturer trying to demo off their new model in a rush hour traffic as a test of handling and acceleration. Again clogged network full of too many devices that the wifi router cannot handle is the same as a device freezing in the middle of nothing but a hand gesture to you.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

Nope, but I'll admit I haven't done a lot of traveling with WiFi. That said, I expect, for example, my cell phone to work at busy places, which it has.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

The next demonstration, Apple set up a network just for their devices so it wouldn't happen.

Which is what they should have done in the first place, then. It's a demo, where perception is everything. Having to tell everybody to turn off their WiFi is a PR disaster akin to a device freeze.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Samantha Wright]

Xfire is a chat service closely comparable to Steam, although it has no store functionality; its primary selling point is that you can chat while in-game. If it represents any particular demographic, it would be a bias toward more veteran gamers, since it has mostly been displaced. That graph says that Diablo 3 players who use Xfire are now playing half of the hours per day that they were a month ago.

Here is a direct source for Inferno being unbeatable by Blizzard's playtesters.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Paradise Pete]

MS's problems are really kind of bizarre. It's not for lack of talent or trying they just keep screwing up. It has to be management.

It certainly was a management decision to show it now. I'm sure the people working on it weren't ready to show it.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[dbIII]

I thought "Exchange" was an instruction on what to do with the software at least back in 2000 or so. These days it apparently hardly ever loses mail, live backups are actually possible and it could almost be considered ready for release.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[catmistake]

including a large contingent of ex-DEC people

Like... Dave Cultler and his entire engineering team that developed NT at DEC before stealing away to Microsoft with DEC's intellectual property, what we know today as Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Samantha Wright]

Some of us still call it OpenVMS/2 Warp, thank you very much.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure we will get to see dozens of your posts defending intellectual property on slashdot patent-hate stories. What ?.. no?.. thought so.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[catmistake]

Some of us still call it OpenVMS/2 Warp, thank you very much.

ROFL

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

It wouldn't matter if was a BB or WP7 phone or Android that was being demoed. Please explain how this is fault of the product (which is your contention) and not the set up? How a product freezing which is an indication there is a fault in the product is the same as the wifi router (not the product) being too congested? PR disaster. Please, there are not remotely the same. I've attended demos where the power went out (obviously the fault of the product), the speaker's mike failed (obviously the fault of the product), lost ethernet connection when someone accidentally turned off the router (obviously the fault of the product). Murphy's law happens but no one was blaming the product itself but you.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously not been to 'busy' places. Because it does happen with all carriers in metro areas at large public functions.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

Please explain how this is fault of the product (which is your contention) and not the set up?

I'm talking about perception and keyed in on your "no big deal". It's a demo, and it obviously is a big deal. My assumption going in was that the problem was with a new product that couldn't handle an untested volume. You say it was the local access point. OK, if that's true, then that is (mostly) relieving, but first impressions are extremely important.

As to your examples, it's pretty obvious when the power or mic goes out that you're not going to blame the product. In this case, you're such a fanboy you can't even consider my point of view.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow your cellphone can connect to a WAP that's no longer functioning? That is pretty impressive.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, first of all, you need to get your facts straight, which they're not.
I was in the audience at the Jobs keynote where the iPhone had trouble accessing the Internet via Wi-Fi. It wasn't the original iPhone, it was the iPhone 4.

Jobs moved on to other parts of the keynote while his IT gurus in the back identified the problem--which was that there were ~500 wi-fi base stations running in the room, which was the Presidio ballroom on the top floor of the Moscone Center (West) in San Francisco. Think about that - - 500 base stations clogging the spectrum in a room that is ~50k sq feet and seats 5,000 people. That's one base station for every ten people (and every 10 ft square) in the room. I can't think of a single place/time where you'll run up against that kind of congestion except at a major tech keynote event. I suspect that most smartphones would choke under those conditions. Jobs calmly explained the problem and asked everyone to turn off their base stations. Not everyone did, but most complied. Once they did, the rest of the demo ran without a hitch.

The iPhone 4 had its problems. An unusual susceptibility to wi-fi congestion was not one of them.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[MikeBabcock]

You do realize that hype leads to sales, and the feedback loop was so short that many people bought the game without realizing how underwhelming it was because the hype was so high.

The GP is right by most accounts I've read -- Diablo 3 doesn't live up to the hype it received, even though it sold really well initially, which simply means there are a lot of disgruntled people who bought it and can't get refunds.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

Me:

So you're saying that a clogged wifi network causing glitches during the middle of a presentation of product using wifi(which isn't a fault of the product but the network devices) is totally the same thing as a product freezing in the middle of a presentation.

You:

Yes, and I gave examples of why, as a non-fanboy, I'd have cause for concern.

When faced with logic a busy wifi router isn't really an issue with the product, you're changing your story to:

p>I'm talking about perception and keyed in on your "no big deal". It's a demo, and it obviously is a big deal.

That's not what I was talking about from the beginning which was quite clear. You are trying spin it when caught that what you were saying doesn't make sense. Calling me names also shows you are not interested in honest debate or help your weak case.

My assumption going in was that the problem was with a new product that couldn't handle an untested volume.

What? The iPhone is not a router. It was not doing anything with "untested volume.". Jobs tried to surf with it. It was not receiving any data. I have no idea what you are imagining.

You say it was the local access point. OK, if that's true, then that is (mostly) relieving, but first impressions are extremely important.

You claim to have watched the thing but when Jobs asked people to stop using the network, it magically worked. The iPhone screen was projected for everyone to see. The technician wasn't cracking it open and messing with the electronics. Most likely that the problem was too many users. Was it a glitch? Oh yes. Anyone who has done a demo has had glitches. I don't remember any journalists immediately blogging "OMGZ. iPhone wifi doesn't work!". At best, they joked about it the glitch.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[MachineShedFred]

Clearly you don't understand the difference between an airport, where you maybe have 100 radios at maximum within distance of your antenna, and having over 5000 radios active in the Moscone West theater.

I'm sure that doesn't make a difference at all.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Cajun Hell]

That's beside the point. The point is that Apple rehearsed their demo and the rehearsals predicted the live demo in every way except one -- which in hindsight is a "duh!" but nevertheless is a situation where exact conditions weren't recreated. (Do you have any doubt, even despite its shitty antenna, Apple's product did well in rehearsal when there was likely an access point in same room with it, and not thousands of other devices?)

You'd expect the same of most companies who are good at cultivating an image. But Microsoft couldn't be bothered to even pre-alpha test, much less rehearse.

Or they rehearsed, it locked up, and the people involved said, "Well, everyone expects their computers to occasionally lock up, so this is no big deal. Maybe it'll happen during the live demo and maybe it won't, but lockups and bluescreens are a fact of life and sort of like the weather. You just never know."

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is what they should have done in the first place, then. It's a demo, where perception is everything. Having to tell everybody to turn off their WiFi is a PR disaster akin to a device freeze.

If you're in marketing, sure, there's no difference between the two, since the average fool on the street can't tell the difference. Both are equally embarrassing. If you're in engineering, then you would understand the difference between a malfunction caused by a defect and one caused by extraordinary conditions.

If you lived outside the reality distortion fields created by the marketing people, you might be able to tell the difference.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

That's not what I was talking about from the beginning which was quite clear. You are trying spin it when caught that what you were saying doesn't make sense.

You were talking about a live demo from the beginning, and said it was "no big deal". That is what I keyed in on.

What? The iPhone is not a router. It was not doing anything with "untested volume.". Jobs tried to surf with it. It was not receiving any data. I have no idea what you are imagining.

What any consumer might imagine and the kind of thing that happens all the time: when faced with a stressed environment, the product failed due to a design error. I call you a fanboy because the idea that the product might have been at fault doesn't even enter your mind, whereas the typical consumer sees that Jobs expects everybody to turn off their WiFi for the damn thing to work.

I don't remember any journalists immediately blogging "OMGZ. iPhone wifi doesn't work!". At best, they joked about it the glitch.

"awkward", "embarrassing and rare", "a bit sad"

You're right, in that most just accepted it was an understandable WiFi congestion, but there was at least one person who was uncertain and hinted at a problem with the phone:

"It wasn't clear exactly what the actual Wi-Fi issue was, but it seemed that his demo iPhone may have had trouble staying connected to the Wi-Fi network it was supposed to be attached to given there were so many other options around. (If anyone can better diagnose the problem let me know.)"

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[UnknowingFool]

If you can't objectively separate glitches in a presentation == fault of the product, I don't even know where to begin. I don't know how many demos you've attended but it seems that for you everything that goes wrong != fault with the product. The speaker didn't check the batteries on the wireless mic == fault with the product. The demo team didn't bring a UPS for the computer == fault with the product. Wifi network is clogged == fault of the product.

What any consumer might imagine and the kind of thing that happens all the time: when faced with a stressed environment, the product failed due to a design error.

Here's the deal, the product didn't fail due to a design error. I don't know what kind of phone or laptop you use, but when the wifi router is clogged with too many requests, and I can't reach the internet; I don't blame that on my laptop or phone.

I call you a fanboy because the idea that the product might have been at fault doesn't even enter your mind, whereas the typical consumer sees that Jobs expects everybody to turn off their WiFi for the damn thing to work.

So you were in my mind at the time of the presentation? Are you God? I don't KNOW exactly went wrong. Jobs asked everyone to stop using wifi, and it worked. Logically, that was the issue. There wasn't a technician messing with phone or replacing parts. I didn't see a programmer start coding things. I don't even remember them swapping out models. Unlike you I didn't jump to conclusions it was the phone; I waited to see if it could be fixed. Had the phone not worked after Jobs made his request, then, yes, it would have been an issue with the product. Unlike you, I was basing on what I saw and not random conspiracy theories of a second gunman shooting Wifi packets in the air.

Re:Obviously a functional unit

[Raenex]

Here's the deal, the product didn't fail due to a design error.

And you know this how? Because Steve Jobs said so?

So you were in my mind at the time of the presentation?

I gave you an example where somebody thought it might have been a problem with the phone, yet you act like it's some absurd situation that you can't even imagine.

Jobs asked everyone to stop using wifi, and it worked. Logically, that was the issue.

First off, he had to ask more than once, and then they had Apple people going around the room and telling people to turn off their devices. Second, you're completely ignoring what I said, and also what somebody else said, that it might fail in a stressed environment due to a design error.

In fact, I have a netbook where the WiFi normally works, but the laptop would reliably freeze in this one spot when I checked for access points. If instead of freezing, it could have just failed to connect due to a bug, and I wouldn't known any different. In the comments of the blog that I linked to, several people mentioned how one device they had worked fine for WiFi, and another not, on the same spot. Your assumption that it must be an external issue is unjustified.

Here's another example that actually pertains to the iPhone. "You're holding it wrong." If you've got a strong signal, the phone can connect anyways. Yet due to a design error that valued aesthetics over functionality, the phone can't connect if the signal is weak, whereas it would if you weren't "holding it wrong".

Reviewers hands were filthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Filthy hands, never heard of soap.

Useless blog link for a non-story. Why did /. post

[Anonymous Coward]

All this relevent information was already covered by Engadget, TheVerge, etc, etc. None-story here. They did a press event. No prices, no date of availablility, and they didn't want folks to actually touch the demo models running beta versions of an OS on beta hardware. Shocker.

Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[assertation]

Was "Surface" the best name they could come up with? Geeze.

It even makes them sound like a copycat who is coming up a day late and dollar short.

Makes "zune" seem like something they actually had a marketing professional come up with by comparrison.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[sjames]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable headlines if it fails in the market: "Surface takes a dive!".

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surface is a recycled name from a failed product they put out a few years ago. Microsoft Surface used to be the name of tabletop pc. (the pc was a table not a pc that sits on a table)

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[drinkypoo]

They already own the name, and they therefore don't have to buy a company just to get a trademark that is also a word in a language that is not dead or imaginary.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[MickyTheIdiot]

That wasn't a "failed" product, it was a prototype.

Be fair... jessh.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[UnknowingFool]

Surface Table (now called PixelSense) was purchased and installed in a few places as kiosks. Not many but I wouldn't call it a prototype when it was shipped to customers. From wikipedia

On April 17, 2008, AT&T became the first retailer to sell the product.[8] In June 2008 Harrah’s Entertainment launched Microsoft Surface at Rio iBar[9] and Disneyland launched it in Tomorrowland, Innoventions Dream Home.[10] On August 13, 2008 Sheraton Hotels introduced it in their hotel lobbies at 5 locations.[11] On September 8th, 2008 MSNBC began using it to work with election maps for the 2008 US Presidential Election on air.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

But look at how they managed to miniaturise a table sized computer into a 10" widescreen. Awesome engineering!

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[v1]

That wasn't a "failed" product, it was a prototype.

But that's what everyone is calling the "new surface" now, it's just a prototype, that's why nothing works yet. But just wait, it's coming, we promise! (just like the original Surface)

That wasn't a product demo, it was a dream demo "this is what we are going to TRY to make". They spent most of their time speaking the word "surface" over and over like they were trying to brainwash the viewers, while telling everyone over and over ad nauseum how wonderful the clicking sound of the stand was etc. It was insulting. It wasn't a product demo, they were there to tell us what opinion of their product we are supposed to have, without any physical reason to back it up.

The demo itself was a disaster. That poor guy was up on stage, I felt sorry for him when he kept saying "xxx is wonderful!" and tried to get it to work, and it didn't. And so he just moved on to the next thing, "and yyy is wonderful!" and it also failed to work. He finally gave up and grabbed a hot spare off the table and it immediately failed to work on the next thing. "and it plays great games!" (game fails to launch) "and the video is great!" and the video still opens but the video refuses to start playing. "and this keyboard is wonderful!" (but I'm not going to ever attempt to type on it!) "and these menus are great!" (and no menu will stay open) I bet he headed to the bar after that demo. Considering the train wreck that it was though, he was pretty smooth with it.

Someone else a little above here was saying the difference between MS and Apple demos is that Apple is shipping units to the stores when the put them on demo. MS is demoing a product that may never make it to the stores. They aren't even finished designing it yet. They're so late to the tablet game that they're throwing a barely bootable early prototype up on stage and dangling it on a string over reviewers heads trying to stall for time. All they've done is shown their hand about where they'd like to be in 6 months. By then there will probably be a dozen tablets that have magnetic clicky keyboard cover/stand accessories available for them. This demo is probably going to do them more harm than good. And if they're as consistent with the Surface's "early preview" launch as they usually are, a few of the features they talked about it having won't even BE in the final product.

This thing has "Zune" written all over it. (although at least the Zune's demo went fairly well, before it cratered)

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[assertation]

Wow, modded down to "1" as a troll for expressing an opinion probably dozen of other people have. I'm impressed. I never thought Slashdot would be taken over by Microsoft fanboys.

Sorry people, my comment wasn't aimed at upsetting Microsoft fanbodys. I really do think "surface" is a 100% lame attempt at a name for a product that is copycat entry and now sounds like one with the name they chose.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

LIES!!! Everyone knows that the touchscreen wasn't invented by Steve Jobs until 2010!! ;)

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[10101001 10101001]

Someone else a little above here was saying the difference between MS and Apple demos is that Apple is shipping units to the stores when the put them on demo. MS is demoing a product that may never make it to the stores. They aren't even finished designing it yet.

Well, that's been SOP at MS for years. Consider Windows and the original Macintosh.

They're so late to the tablet game that they're throwing a barely bootable early prototype up on stage and dangling it on a string over reviewers heads trying to stall for time. All they've done is shown their hand about where they'd like to be in 6 months.

But like most MS products, they may "like to be" at that stage in 6 months, it usually takes at least two years to get to a remotely usable state. And invariably that comes at the cost of stripping out 50% of the cutting edge features. I'd say the big difference here is just how low they're aiming, feature wise.

By then there will probably be a dozen tablets that have magnetic clicky keyboard cover/stand accessories available for them. This demo is probably going to do them more harm than good. And if they're as consistent with the Surface's "early preview" launch as they usually are, a few of the features they talked about it having won't even BE in the final product.

Well, that's MS. They promise the moon, and they never deliver. The interesting thing is, MS's real problem is that around ten years ago, people were clueless enough about MS's behavior to bet on MS's vaporware which was really good at harming the competition. But, MS's cried wolf too many times, that even when they do deliver a demo of an actually working product, people are reluctant to really trust that MS will devote itself to that product for any serious length of time...unless it's Windows/Office/XBox related. I see Google going down this same route, actually, given how frequently they kill projects.

It all comes down to just how willing MS is to supporting Surface for the long-term, even if that means ten years from now working on maintaining backwards compatibility with misbehaving v0.1 programs on whatever the latest iteration of Surface will be at that time. Personally, I just don't see that happening. And as your Zune example suggests, I don't think you do either. In the end, MS will have to go out of its way to really prove a commitment in action, not in just words.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty standard MS vaporware, IMHO. They succeeded in the past in getting folks to wait for crap that didn't work so well by doing just this kind of thing. It'll probably work this time too.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really do think "surface" is a 100% lame attempt at a name for a product that is copycat entry and now sounds like one with the name they chose.

great, no one cares, don't get so butthurt and crybabyish just because you get modded down...fuckin loser.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

umad? yeah umad!

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Tough Love]

Maybe "Zunetab" was already taken.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[sincewhen]

Please bear in mind that Microsoft's objective here may not be to become the largest tablet vendor, but to simultaneously start the hype machine running for Win8 Tablet Edition and to provide a benchmark (wish list) for the OEMs to live up to with their own hardware.

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid that it is not vapor ware. THIS IS IT.

The product is finnished!

Ok. It still crashes a few times. But then again, which microsoft product doesn't?

Fairly unusable? Well yearh. It's windows remember?

Oh, the video won't play. Well it doesn't play on your PC at home now does it?

At least there was no BSOD. Year since Vista we did away with that one nicely.

Really amazing progres we made these past few decades. We. Us. And its all there for you to enjoy.

A frustrated PC boy who has vowed to swich to Apple a million time until the moment comes to shell out a hefty premium for it (and besides: I don't like the apple style).

Re:Was THAT The Best Name They Could Come Up With?

[painandgreed]

Pretty standard MS vaporware, IMHO. They succeeded in the past in getting folks to wait for crap that didn't work so well by doing just this kind of thing. It'll probably work this time too.

Except in those cases it was to hurt a small company by displaying a competing product so people would not buy from the small company. Then, when small company is desperate because they can't reach the break even point, MS would buy the small company and their product then kill their competing product. Somehow, I don't think that is going to work against Apple. But still, only the low end surface is competing against Apple and the iPad. The high end model is competing against the MacAir and really against all the MacAir Windows clones. They even said flat out that their pricing would be comparable to both the iPad and ultrabooks. They're only really keeping people from buying their own products already by going into competition with Windows tablets and ultrabooks. Perhaps they need to for a decent product to come out, but this is still changing how MS operates by entering into competition with their own resellers.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

But you CAN actually use an Apple product when they are showed to the press. An unfinished product could be miles away from the promess made so the surface reviews are a moot point

I would drop

[Anonymous Coward]

I would drop the most basic things like
1. Weight on hands (as every person finds it different)

2. Feel on fingertips (every person finds it different, and I mean personal opinions "This feels nice" but you can say if there is texture or rubber or it is slippery)

3. Where the slots are (you can find them from screenshots, but I would like to hear which way the slots are if they are under cover, meaning some MicroUSB ports are wrong way installed so you need to plug cable other way as well).

4. Opinions of color (you can only mention available versions but not opinions are they cool looking etc).

5. All the typical "This is "X-based"" and so on. No need to mention "This use Android Ice Scream Sandwich" as it is enough to mention at start "Android 4.0".

6. Use correct names for software systems, like not "Android Ice Scream Sandwich" but "Android 4.0" as that way people know better what it is about, so leave code names to ignorance nerds and wannabe teens.

7. Do not show basic stuff... like "this has a touch screen" unless it is something new and special way, like having touch screen on keyboard etc.

8. Again, leave all personal opinions out unless you really want to focus for specific fans.

Re:I would drop

[Lonewolf666]

6. Use correct names for software systems, like not "Android Ice Scream Sandwich" but "Android 4.0" as that way people know better what it is about, so leave code names to ignorance nerds and wannabe teens.

Depends on how much of a hash the marketing makes of the names. With Android 4.0 you have picked an example where the official name is actually meaningful. So far, so good.

But on the hardware side, the codenames are often more useful to identify the product generation of a certain model. As a particular bad example, consider Nvidia's GT 640: three different models under the same name. Two new ones in 28 nm and one obsolete one in 40 nm manufacturing.
With codenames (in this case "Kepler" versus "Fermi"), you can at least tell which is the obsolete one ;-)

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[medcalf]

I don't think it's MS hate. If someone put their hands on a new model Jaguar, with no engine and which they weren't allowed to sit in, and then called it a road test, their credibility (the reviewer,'s not Jaguar's) would be dead with me from then on. MS announced something that might be vaporware, in the sense of never coming to market, or might in fact be the device that unseats the iPad. But that's not the issue: deceptive reviews are the issue. Is the keyboard as cool as it looks or an unusable monstrosity? The reviewers in question have no way of telling, but are acting as if they do. That's what annoys.

"Journalism"

[arisvega]

How many journalists can you name from the top of your head that follow a code of ethics and perform their function which is to report the news ojectively?

Yea, I thought so.

In this buzzphrase-dominated media society, journalists rank very high on own fart-smelling.

Re:"Journalism"

[MickyTheIdiot]

Erin Burnett?

You should be laughing.

Re:"Journalism"

[Anonymous Coward]

Greg Palast

Robert Fisk

so... two.

Re:"Journalism"

[Media_Scumbag]

Journalism's been dying for years, but like a frog in a pan of water, it will not flex a muscle to save itself. Though it boils violently in it's own excrement, its' audience can scarcely be bothered, as the spectacle isn't awful enough.

Pardon my anecdote:

I was at E3 2000 when MS revealed another (pardon the pun) "game changer" in much the same way as this "iPad-killer": The X-Box.

There was no case, no controller (it was a Logitech PC controller) and myself and 20 or so journalists sat in a makeshift theatre watched a fly-through demo highlighting what we all knew was a basic PC Direct-X graphics engine. No one steered the flythrough, none of us were allowed to touch the controller or the clunky plexiglass and PC-guts that sat on a small, cloth-draped a/v rack. None of our questions could really be answered, either. To this day, I'm not at all sure why they didn't call individual reporters up to breakout rooms or hotel suites, because those of us who weren't in our early 20's were thoroughly unimpressed.

I'm sure someone gave them props. After all, E3, gaming and the Web (still) were booming, and fact-checked news and Comdex were showing their age.

Read the Web articles of the NYT, WashPo, WSJ, - any of the leading print publications from the past 30 years or more. How often do you see grammatical, spelling, or factual errors? I see them with exponentially increasing frequency. I think it's indicative of the "death of print," and more distressingly, the "dumbing-down of America." No one cares about quality reporting anymore. They want HuffPo, Brietbart, TMZ, and Gawker. They want blood.

Bradbury was right.

Re:"Journalism"

[Anonymous Coward]

Or Sturgeon ...

Not hands on?

[Sponge Bath]

I guess these reviews just scratched the surface.

Re:Not hands on?

[akeeneye]

I can't wait for the reviewers to test the Frictionless Surface model. After trying to keep it in their laps, after trying to type on *that* keyboard, they'll have a few choice words for M$.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Oh come on. This was not like an Apple event at all. The Surface demo made a huge deal about the keyboard, how much better it was than the iPad's soft keyboard - and then the journalists weren't allowed to try it out, even for a second?

Read the story next time before commenting please.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[ichthus]

Why do you have strange character strings where you should have quotation marks? Did you cut and past this as a pre-canned response?

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Mononoke]

You had to cut&paste from Office to tell us this?

That's easy.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the reviewer's hands were on the device, it's a hands-on review.

Duh.

Re:That's easy.

[adamstew]

That makes about as much sense as someone saying that they got to sit in a parked sports car that didn't have a steering wheel and they weren't allowed to turn on the stereo or push any buttons.... but since the car was parked on the road it's a "road test".

Re:That's easy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those concept cars displayed at the big shows, it's like calling sitting in one of those a road test of a new model.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should at least get a feel for the key functionality and most popular productivity functionality being there.

Show how to touch the screen for control-alt-del

Show Antivirus software with some cool animation as it kills something

Show a drive defragmenter moving things around

And the most important, show an uninstall program running

And if there's a deluxe premium version, show it able to play a DVD or run Solitaire

I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[nzac]

I think the surface will be terrible to use as a tablet just because MS chose the ratio to match current laptop screens.

Its just too thin either orientation.
You loose half the screen for things that pop-out from the bottom or top including the keyboard and if you turn it upright its too thin to deliver a decent experience for most things. Traditionally you use portrait for web-pages buy the arm one does not horizontal resolution to view it naively.

If its a poor tablet then and it wont be as good for typing as laptop then its doomed to find its self a small uninteresting niche. This is made worse because its only available online or from an MS store.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[chrylis]

I was rather skeptical as well, but I bought a Toshiba Thrive (10") when it came out about a year ago, and I've been quite pleased with it. In particular, the taller aspect ratio makes reading text more convenient, since 6" is a bit wide of a column width, and a 16:9 screen gives a narrower column and a longer page.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[anss123]

Traditionally you use portrait for web-pages buy the arm one does not horizontal resolution to view it naively.

Not that I disagree about 9:16 being potentially awkward, the arm surface has the same horizontal resolutions as the ipad 1 and 2 in portrait mode.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[nzac]

Not that I disagree about 9:16 being potentially awkward, the arm surface has the same horizontal resolutions as the ipad 1 and 2 in portrait mode.

The iPad is sometimes gets sent to mobile websites, if MS is fine with letting servers do the same then the native res is not as much of an issue.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[nzac]

Looks like they changed it to 16:10 for the current models.

Text and the arranged list of tiles they use to demo the portrait work pretty well because they rearrange without needing to stretch anything.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[KiloByte]

s/tablets/screens/

16:10 and 16:9 are not really useful for anything except watching movies. Ok, s/ except.*?\.//, as there's nothing really worth watching there too.

Basically anything you work with: text, code, images, webpages, etc, is better viewed on something that's not a thin strip, no matter if that strip is horizontal or vertical.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[tuppe666]

s/tablets/screens/

16:10 and 16:9 are not really useful for anything except watching movies. Ok, s/ except.*?\.//, as there's nothing really worth watching there too.

Basically anything you work with: text, code, images, webpages, etc, is better viewed on something that's not a thin strip, no matter if that strip is horizontal or vertical.

So lets get this right...for textual information that adjusts to any dimension automatically, shouldn't it matter what screen dimensions are with wrapping. The only time this is not the case is when text is does not wrap[you need to horizontal scroll to read], or web pages[like slashdot] that are designed with not to shrink below a certain size; have extra columns for navigation and advertising. Both of these cases wider is better. As for Images...my camera phone takes them now at 16:9...and Video that way too. In fact I cannot think of a single instance where widescreen isn't superior. I think your exaggerating because you own that expensive tablet with a fruit on the back.

...Personally I would love a 2.35:1 monitor

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[KiloByte]

A human cannot comfortably read too wide a column of text. That's the reason why most newspapers use multiple columns, even in portrait orientation, and why webpages tend to restrict text width as well.

And I don't have an use for a phone or tablet without a keyboard that you can't even install a compiler on.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[tuppe666]

A human cannot comfortably read too wide a column of text. That's the reason why most newspapers use multiple columns, even in portrait orientation, and why webpages tend to restrict text width as well.

Newspapers is a really really bad example. This is where I suspect you and I are both out of out depth...so I will refer to an expert. http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/nov02.asp [Bob Bailey, Ph.D., Chief Scientist for HFI, discusses the optimal line length when reading prose text from a monitor.]

The short version is Newspapers optimum line width was 3.6" with a maximum of 4", only the Galaxy note is small enough to work reading text, by your example, but that was with old 10-point printers with black on white text.

For Monitors using larger text...for speed wideris is better 8-9-10 inches about the Width of Widescreen Android Tablet ..but user prefer reading at 3.6-4" which is about the width of a Kindle Fire and other 7" tablets...so Apple tablets are out.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

16:10 and 16:9 are not really useful for anything except watching movies.

Myth. People keep forgetting we work in a window'd environment.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[zippthorne]

The real question is why they gave it the same name as their $10k "big-ass table" computer.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Myth. People keep forgetting we work in a window'd environment.

You must not have heard of Windows 8 yet.

Re:I think 16:9 tablets don't work regarless of OS

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

If you mean that I haven't worked within an unreleased product yet... you're right. Praise be unto ye for that revelation.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Eh, I don't think that this can be dismissed as 'Microsoft hate'. Yeah, it involves a Microsoft product; but it treats that as a (recent, high profile, and thus salient) example of the phenomenon of absurdly stage-managed 'hands-on'/'reviews'/etc. involved in tech industry prerelease puffery, and the generally supine compliance of the 'journalists' who eagerly enable the hype machine out of some mixture of fanboyism and desperation for ad impressions.

It isn't the world's biggest secret that, even among ostensibly respectable journalists who write about Serious Topics for Serious Publications of Record, 'access', advertisers, and parent companies have pretty severely eroded the teeth of the vaunted '4th estate'; but it never hurts to remind people of that fact. Tech journalism seems to be substantially more dreadful still.

Again, this phenomenon isn't really MS specific; but (given that most of the 'hands on!!!' coverage has politely failed to note exactly how carefully the minders were keeping a leash on things) it is good to have somebody inform us of that fact.

Obviously, a prerelease product is going to have rough edges, which team PR isn't going to want people cutting themselves on in front of the cameras; but a problem arises when most of the coverage simply elides the fact that PR flacks were waving people away from those rough edges, rather than noting them and moving on...

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[X0563511]

I like how you switch from smart quotes to straight quotes and back. What browser is that? It's doing something funny. (Slashdot's incompetence makes it apparent)

They've even unveiled a new logo for MS Surface

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/79hsw

(Embeds not allowed.)

Re:They've even unveiled a new logo for MS Surface

[Anonymous Coward]

Beautiful!

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of a former boss who pretty much thought that if wasn't doable with Microsoft Office you couldn't do it. The solution to all problems was Word, a Spreadsheet, or a powerpoint.

I don't work for him any more... and pretty happy about it.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[master5o1]

I read that Control-Alt-Delete is remapped to WindowsKey-Power.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[hawguy]

Why do you have strange character strings where you should have quotation marks? Did you cut and past this as a pre-canned response?

Copy-and-paste doesn't necessarily mean it was a pre-canned response. Slashdot's comment box leaves a lot to be desired in the editing department, so I'm not surprised at all that someone would write their post in a real editor and then copy and paste it back to Slashdot. Someday Slashdot will enter this century and provide WYSIWYG editing for those that don't want to type HTML. Even the acronym "WYSIWYG" seems to gone out of style these days because it's everywhere.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[master5o1]

PS to my previous reply,

These things run on flash storage. NEVER defragment flash storage. They very much unlikely have a DVD drive, so attempting that is not going to happen.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

But you CAN actually use an Apple product when they are showed to the press. An unfinished product could be miles away from the promess made so the surface reviews are a moot point

This is typically true, largely because Apple's style is typically one of ruthless secrecy until launch; but really orthogonal to TFA's point:

His problem was not that a prerelease product was being shown to the press; but that most of the coverage completely failed to mention how tight a leash it was on.

At what point in the development cycle one chooses to demo a product is a matter of strategy and taste. Only when already shipping? Fine. Pre-alpha, only the boys from the lab can even touch it? Fine. The problem being highlighted is that journalists were(understandably, given the pressure for ad impressions; but very arguably unethically) overstating the amount of information they were actually bringing to their readers. Regurgitating press releases makes you a flack; but it isn't inherently unethical. Re-labelling press releases as 'news' and then regurgitating them is another matter entirely...

Re:Useless blog link for a non-story. Why did /. p

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, reviewer also seems amazed by the fact it's a complete OS running on a tablet, as though it's a first. Supposedly nobody told him Samsung released the Series 7 Slate. Even knowledge of the domain you are discussing seems to be too much to ask nowadays.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[KiloByte]

You don't defragment files on flash storage, you defragment free space.

angry birds played by a toddler

[circletimessquare]

a hands on review must include a game of angry birds

preferably by a drooling 3 year old

if the toddler plays for more than 3 minutes without dropping the thing and wandering off (weight and functionality), the tablet will be a success

Re:angry birds played by a toddler

[Anonymous Coward]

And that test is exactly how you will tell if it wll work in a corporate space. If a 3-year old can use it, then it will probably not break at the hands of an executive when travelling overseas away from tech support.
Stuffed laptops are our number one time consuming fault with travelling ViPs. If their phone dies, we prep a new one hand have it to them anywhere in the country overnight, if over seas, then we nuke and re deploy one of their EAs's phones if its that important to them. But Ive had more call than I want from a grumpy ViP who just wants to get a frikken 3G modem to work in whatever country they are in. Nearly all the execs I deal with now have an iPad, and I haven't had to deal with a single faulty one. One got stolen, and we issued a remote wipe over activesync and it has never shown up on Find-My-Ipad, but thats it.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

What about a license agreement? It should be illegal to launch products without publishing the license agreement

He wrote

[future assassin]

>Again, like I wrote before, if I could have only two of three tablets, I’d go iPad then Windows 8 and not Android, because Android’s not offering me anything I can’t already do on the iPad but with (to me) what’s not an elegant environment. Windows 8 is different, unique, seems to offer some compelling features even without the icing of a kickstand that goes “click” and thin keyboard.

Wait wait he bitches about not being able to use the tablet to see what its all about but he prefers it over an Android tablet because there's something potentially magical about it even though he has no clue what that could be...

I've never used it but doesn't Asus Transformer already do the same thing as the windows tablet. Convert from laptop to tablet and vice versa?

Re:He wrote

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better, later he complains about featues he likes in an old windows tablet:

"At the SXSW conference in March, Microsoft had a non-Surface Windows 8 tablet out in its booth. It was fascinating to see a tablet with a real file system: It was nerdily amazing that I could even make a DOS prompt appear on it:"

Wow, features Android had had since birth, but this guy prefers to have an iPad and winge that windows8 can't get here quick enough ... you can tell the "DOS prompt" was only a novelty app for this guy.

Re:He wrote

[miknix]

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/smartbook.htm

Re:He wrote

[MachineShedFred]

There's other Windows tablets of roughly the same form factor out there, they just don't have Windows 8 on them yet. That can be remedied.

It's entirely possible that he's put the Win8 preview on a Samsung atom-based tablet in order to try it out, and that's the experience he's speaking of.

MS==GM

[Anonymous Coward]

MS's problem is that like GM they got a long free ride where they didn't have to worryt about customer satisfaction.
In their case it was due to being a monopoly.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

What about a license agreement? It should be illegal to launch products without publishing the license agreement

Au contraire, license agreements should be illegal.

Write up is a troll

[kamapuaa]

She doesn't say "merely touching an unworking product makes it hands-on review" at any point. She says that she can give a review that's "hands on" even with just a short time using the product, as long as she's clear it's just an impression and isn't an in-depth review. If you read the review, it's full of qualifiers like "At this stage Microsoft is being very cagey and no-one has had much time using Surface RT yet, but from our experience of trying it out."

Just another unfair article summary by some Slashdot basement dweller with an anti-Microsoft agenda.

Re:Write up is a troll

[rudy_wayne]

She says that she can give a review that's "hands on" even with just a short time using the product, as long as she's clear it's just an impression and isn't an in-depth review.

Holding a device, that isn't turned on, for a few seconds, is not a "hands-on review", except in the world of unethical scumbag journalists.

Re:Write up is a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

You may call it trolling as you've included that now famous Slashdot 'why is everyone so 'anti-MS' line in your trollish comment.
A few years ago, I attended a OLPC event, back before Negreponte sold out to MS and muddied up the Open Source community's faith in the project. During the presentation, they handed out several XO-1s to the audience to play with and then pass along. There were only three or maybe four of them but it was a relatively small venue so while it took a while I was eventually able to mess with one for a few minutes. These were working prototypes so we in the audience could do whatever we wanted -- reboot them, mess the Sugar interface, etc. THAT'S a hands-on review

Re:Write up is a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

I always interpreted hands-on as meaning "taken home and used for a couple days". I don't think I'm alone with that interpretation. A good, solid, reasoned analysis takes place when the author picks the appliance up and asks "what can I do with this?" Anything other is nothing more than rewriting "A Thousand Little Pieces."

Re:Write up is a troll

[Colonel Korn]

She doesn't say "merely touching an unworking product makes it hands-on review" at any point. She says that she can give a review that's "hands on" even with just a short time using the product, as long as she's clear it's just an impression and isn't an in-depth review. If you read the review, it's full of qualifiers like "At this stage Microsoft is being very cagey and no-one has had much time using Surface RT yet, but from our experience of trying it out."

Just another unfair article summary by some Slashdot basement dweller with an anti-Microsoft agenda.

As far as Anandtech, at least, which is usually the only tech site on the internet worth reading, there was no claim of a "review" and the author made it very clear exactly how much contact he had with the device.

Re:Write up is a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you read the article? Did you read the post you were replying to? She made no such claim. It's terrible that you can make pronouncements about how other people are unethical scumbags, when you can even bother reading what it is you're talking about.

Re:Write up is a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft presentation made a really, really big deal out of the keyboard and how good it is. You can't call it a "hands on" if you didn't actually get to try that crucial piece of hardware (and no, a turned off device doesn't count -- why do you think it was turned off? Win8 on tablets has been shown to journalists several times, the new thing here was the keyboard). She gave the impression of actually testing it but in reality she "pretend typed" which frnakly is worth nothing here...

Comments about "basement dwellers with an agenda" probably tell more about you than the submiter or editor. Personally I'm _really_ interested in the device but I also recognise the critical achilles heel: if the keyboard sucks then this device is a dud. It's not really an awesome tablet (900g is just too heavy) and if typing is not comfortable it's also not an awesome ultrabook that transforms to a tablet. At that point we're left with a product that's mediocre in all the catogories...

Re:Write up is a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

She says that she can give a review that's "hands on" even with just a short time using the product, as long as she's clear it's just an impression and isn't an in-depth review.

She can give a hands-on review as long as she's clear it isn't a review. Give me a break. There's no such thing as a hands-on impression.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, I hardly ever type HTML tags into comment fields anymore. There are 'way too many programs that will do it for you. I'm using TextExpander on my Mac, but it is far from the only one.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[UnknowingFool]

At what point in the development cycle one chooses to demo a product is a matter of strategy and taste. Only when already shipping? Fine.

This is Apple's modus operandi. Most likely units are already being shipped to their stores when Apple makes an announcement. Of course the problem is that if there's a flaw in it, it's a pain to recall. Like the original white iPhones 4

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[ichthus]

Copy-and-paste doesn't necessarily mean it was a pre-canned response.

Obviously. Yet, the question must necessarily be asked.

fake arguments

[obarthelemy]

That guy is trolling for attention with false and idiot statements:

- "MS said their KB is better than a true KB". FALSE. they said i's better than a *touch* KB.

- My bike has a kick stand, and it's not a key feature. DUMB. a tablet's kickstand is for when you actually use the tablet, as opposed to a bike's kickstand.

Overall, a second rate blogger having an hissy fit about being shown a pre-prod unit (was it his first time ?), and trying to blow things out of proportion with idiot arguments. Oh, and he censored my negative comment on his blog, too.

Re:fake arguments

[rudy_wayne]

That guy is trolling for attention with false and idiot statements:

- "MS said their KB is better than a true KB". FALSE. they said i's better than a *touch* KB.

- My bike has a kick stand, and it's not a key feature. DUMB. a tablet's kickstand is for when you actually use the tablet, as opposed to a bike's kickstand.

Overall, a second rate blogger having an hissy fit about being shown a pre-prod unit (was it his first time ?), and trying to blow things out of proportion with idiot arguments. Oh, and he censored my negative comment on his blog, too.

The guy might be a total asshole for all I know, but, if he is telling the truth (i.e., no one at the event ever actually got to use the device or even touch it for more than a couple of seconds) then he has a legitimate point, which is very simply, that you can't honestly claim to have done a "hands-on review" of something if you've never actually used it for more than a few seconds.

Re:fake arguments

[obarthelemy]

My take on it is that the outside was ready, not the inside. So the journos did get to play with the case, stand, keyboard, and some very limited apps. This indeed is "hands on" only in the most complacent sense. But then that blogger goes on a rant and throws several falsehoods and fake arguments in the process, which looks to me like a contrived grab for attention.

Re:fake arguments

[martinX]

>>My take on it is that the outside was ready, not the inside.

That's almost certainly true. MS shouldn't have had a product launch until they had a product to launch.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[thetoadwarrior]

Sounds like the truth upset a fanboy.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

So? Just like the trick pictures where you either see two faces or a vase, this doesn't make a difference. The blocks still have to be moved, and it doesn't matter if you look at this as the occupied space being copied, or the free blocks moving around. Think electrons and holes in a semiconductor.

Either way, the flash will wear out.

More hands-on reviews, please

[Megahard]

I will gladly volunteer for a review of Scarlett Johansson.

Re:More hands-on reviews, please

[davidbofinger]

I will gladly volunteer for a review of Scarlett Johansson.

The point of TFA is that some people got to paw Scar-Jo, but not take her clothes off, and then expressed opinions on her skills in bed.

"It's a metaphor." "I know it's a metaphor." -- Moneyball

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is exactly what happens at Apple events. Two weeks ago when apple showed off all the newest hardware? Immediately afterwards all the journalists got to play with it hands on in finished form. Many were given review models to take home.

*sigh*

[Altanar]

If anyone's want to know exactly what went down at the press conference without being fed a heavy dose of cynicism, you could always check out ArsTechnica's liveblog and post-event coverage: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/liveblog-from-la-microsofts-major-announcement-rumored-tablet-unveil/

Slashdot's reaction to the Surface has been a mixture of amusing and frustrating. The reaction was immediately: "Surface is complete garbage. Horrible fail. After all, Microsoft never makes anything good." A few days later after some of the announced features of Surface disseminated the reaction changed to: "Utter vaporware. Never coming out. After all, Microsoft could never make something like that. They must be lying." Never in my life have I seen a piece of unreleased hardware declared vaporware in mere days of it's announcement. Never. Microsoft must've really touched a nerve with some people.

Re:*sigh*

[tuppe666]

If anyone's want to know exactly what went down at the press conference without being fed a heavy dose of cynicism, you could always check out ArsTechnica's liveblog and post-event coverage: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/liveblog-from-la-microsofts-major-announcement-rumored-tablet-unveil/

Slashdot's reaction to the Surface has been a mixture of amusing and frustrating. The reaction was immediately: "Surface is complete garbage. Horrible fail. After all, Microsoft never makes anything good." A few days later after some of the announced features of Surface disseminated the reaction changed to: "Utter vaporware. Never coming out. After all, Microsoft could never make something like that. They must be lying." Never in my life have I seen a piece of unreleased hardware declared vaporware in mere days of it's announcement. Never. Microsoft must've really touched a nerve with some people.

Slashdots response has been discussion...as always. As for Ars Techinca I believe they have closed their open source section :). I fail to see what is wrong with being surprised that Microsoft is making its first computer ever!? They have always made money from the software and not from the hardware, and have had Fall guys to test the water "Play for Sure - partners" or "Nokia"...and even then not computers, nothing to challenge its bread and butter of OS+Office, and No the Xbox doesn't count....but your wrong this is still vaporware; Where can I buy this product? Lets face it even journalist are not even allowed to use it.

Personally I believe many who advocate open source Os's are feeling a little like Winston Churchill when Pearl Harbour was attacked "So we have won after all!"

Seriously other than some really nasty anti-competitive tricks involving locking the OS to the hardware. I cannot see a downside, and that was already happening...its less likely to happen now. There is little to no threat to Linux based tablets[Google allegedly pricing their tablet at $200] where its best chance to win, is from bottom up. Microsoft have chosen to Directly take on Apple[their only option with x86] in the computer market for the first time in 20 years, rather than to continue to exist in a safe but shrinking duopoly, With a high end; High margin product; Using Brand Power[its like Mexican wrestling]. While giving a whole host of hardware manufactures including Nokia;"Barnes and Noble", Beige box manufactures waiting for windows 8 chance to re-evaluate their now weak strategy; being denied that a piece of that sweet early adopter high margin action after being stabbed in the back. Who here sympathises with these companies, hell these companies probably have a whole host of hardware IP ready to attack Microsoft with, most of them should have a "what will happen when Microsoft screw us over" package...or a button...or a bloke in a bowler hat. I suspect these hardware companies are suddenly going to an gain a healthy interest in software, and Open source is the best way to get to a working solution quickly. Personally I'd be installing libreoffice on all my current Windows 7 offerings, With dualboot into Company themed Debian based distro just for badness. They simply have no other choice, they need to adapt just like Microsoft have.

Personally I think computing is getting exciting again. Thanks to Microsoft being a backstabbing dick.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? And why should they given that the whole product ships TODAY? Just reading every review about the retina MBP they start with "And finally our MBP was delivered and we proceeded to...". Isn't that normal procedure or just because you have a newspaper ID you get to free ride everything?

Crafty bastards.

[mevets]

I canâ(TM)t imagine the torture of waiting until you actually have a product to announce it. It takes all the fun out of it. I much more support people selling prototypes of half baked ideas. That is cutting edge.

One of the reasons I steer towards Apple products is just that - they are finished products. I had one of the early HTC android phones. I admire the chutzpah of HTC to actually sell such a painfully horrible contraption. My daughter helpfully donated it to a city bus...

There is alarmingly awful shit punted into the CE market; Sony, Dell, Samsung, Archos, Elgato, are all guilty of punting little more than proof-of-concept (and often proof-of-no-concept) as product. MS are no exception.

Re:Crafty bastards.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple are no exception either if you aren't just a fanboy, most recent examples are the iphone4 antenna, the white iphone4, the 4G ipad (in that virtually anywhere outside the US it isn't 4G at all).

Re:Crafty bastards.

[rjstanford]

Hmm. Other than the fact that the iPhone antenna "problem" wasn't one in the real world (as shown by the literally millions of phones sold with the problem that... worked fine), and that the 4G iPad supports native 4G connections in most (but admittedly not all) countries that offer them, let's look at the "white iphone4". Which (gasp) had a tendency to discolor. But your a fanboy if you don't stack that up against a product being reviewed that doesn't actually exist in any meaningful way.

Right...

Re:Crafty bastards.

[DinDaddy]

the 4G iPad supports native 4G connections in most (but admittedly not all) countries that offer them

Umm, I like apple stuff, but MOST?! Come on. From the ipad page at the Apple store:

"4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S. and on Bell, Rogers, and Telus networks in Canada. See your carrier for details.".

Two countries. And the second is really just our hat.

Re:Crafty bastards.

[SeanAD]

Two countries. And the second is really just our hat.

Close. You are just our underwear.

Have a nice day. :)

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[gstrickler]

And you missed the parent poster's point. At an Apple rollout, there are typically dozens or even hundreds of production units to play with. People actually get hands on time to play with the machines. They're not on "a tight leash". True, it's not the same as an in-depth review, but it's definitely hands-on, and very different from the situation with the Surface.

Never underesimate ...

[PPH]

.. the power subsumed by a religious icon.

Keyboards

[pubwvj]

People, you do know there is a real keyboard for the iPad. Right? One from Apple. A bunch from other companies. I have the Apple one. Excellent feel. Oooo... So, Microsf, what's the big deal again? Playing catch up and still can't catch Apple's tail coat? Ah...

Re:Keyboards

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really following your point there. Are you feeling like you're being personally attacked or something? Why would you feel that way?

The iPad is a cool device. But this new MS machine, if it performs as advertised, is going to be super cool as well.

I mean, it'll be able to run Photoshop. With an on-screen pen, fer goodness sake!

You gotta admit, that's pretty awesome.

Plus, it comes with a pretty sweet keyboard which just magnetically plugs in. That's going to be popular in the business world, especially as it means you'll be able to use the last 20 years worth of x86 programs on your tablet. That makes it something I might buy.

Re:Keyboards

[martinX]

Photoshop on a 10" screen with that's nowhere near pro level and anaemic graphics acceleration. Why in God's name would you subject yourself to that?

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[JAlexoi]

Obviously Ctrl+Alt+Del is teh essential functionality of Windows system known as 3KC.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[JAlexoi]

Well.... Actually when they announced the retina MacBook Pro they allowed for a hands-on. When they announced iPad, they allowed for a hands-on. I can't really think of any Apple announcement that wasn't followed by a video of a hands-on within 24hrs.(And I'm no fanboi)

... it boils down to ...

[Taco Cowboy]

The problem being highlighted is that journalists were(understandably, given the pressure for ad impressions; but very arguably unethically) overstating the amount of information they were actually bringing to their readers. Regurgitating press releases makes you a flack; but it isn't inherently unethical. Re-labelling press releases as 'news' and then regurgitating them is another matter entirely...

Actually, the entire thing boils down to ... many of those who call themselves "journalists" have neither the journalistic integrity nor the will power to become a real journalist

Those who tell stories should be known as "Story Teller", not journalists .

To be a true journalist is actually not easy - it's always a tight-rope act when the situation demands an independent view

It is one of the reasons why the so-called "journalism" we have today are mostly crap
 

failures

[cratermoon]

If I don't get to play with the thing until I can invoke a crash or at least a major system error, I don't consider it "hands-on". Nearly any nitwit can set up a demo where the reviewer is allowed to push a certain button and the right thing happens. Hand over the device to someone while they poke at prod at it in ways the creators never imagined.

Made me lose a lot of respect for "The Verge"

[Anonymous Coward]

They pulled the exact same shit. Called it a "Hands On" with Surface, and there was absolutely no hands-on demo at all. Just a short, crap article to generate more ad impressions. One of the users on the comments summed it up with what has to be the funniest animated GIF I have ever seen:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2433/browserpreviewtmpc.gif

Vaporware?!?!!

[crovira]

I am sure that Microsoft would never stoop that low. :-)

The actually delivered, uh, the Kin, the Zune, their software is legendary for fitting inside 640k. (Nobody needs more than that...)

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[lilfields]

Since the product isn't being released for a few months, why would they let journalists or potential product spies see the full functionality/feel of the product so that it could be ripped off? That's why Apple announces things and say "available today!" it gives them the jump so no one can replicate the feature. Windows Phone for instance initiated a lot of new features that were quickly copied by Apple and Google. So in their WP8 summit they actually intentionally omitted front end features to prevent them from being copied.

I could be wrong and it might not work at all right now (I doubt this, the person that designed the keyboard is actually pretty well known and quite respected)...but my theory is that they don't want they're product spyed too much. Enough of a taste to scare the crap out of OEMs before the Windows 8 launch, but not enough to give all the technology and production away. Seems logical to me.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[lilfields]

*their

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[oztiks]

I tend to agree, the review as actually a good one. Spoke well of the tablet and made note of some of its usability features. But how dare someone post something nice/positive about Microsoft? as really, that's what it boils down too.

Preaching to the choir

[RogueWarrior65]

The way I see it, Microsoft created a fantasy proof-of-concept rather than an actual working product. By presenting it to Hollywood types who all live in a delusional fantasy world where they think they're important, they were pretty much guaranteed a receptive audience.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Gr8Apes]

At least they're shipping - or close to shipping - a product. Surface has no date, and may not even be a real working product.

I'd love to show you some hands on experiences

[axlr8or]

Unfortunately, prostitution is illegal in most states.

There is no discussion here

[Anonymous Coward]

An hand on review has always been about having the object yourself and using it. Any other attributed meaning is some asshole pretending to do stuff they did not.

Utter failure to live to hype can mean fastest sel

[aepervius]

Utter failure to live to hype can mean fastest selling together. This simply means it sold like hot cake, but people after a few bites were finding the content bland and forgettable. In fact I contend that even if Blizzard were developing Diablo 4 now, no matter the hype, a lot of people would WAIT before buying it.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

"Hands on" means you got to play around with it for a little bit. This was not that in the slightest. Hence a "hands on" demo is fraudulent, at least as described after the fact once it became apparent that was not the case.

"Surface" - What do you want to be today?

[Torodung]

Didn't "Surface" used to be a big-ass table?

When did it become a vaporware iPad?

On a more serious note, MS has a long history of pretending they have a product when it's actually just on the drawing boards. It used to make markets seize up in waiting for the MS product. I can't see how that tactic is going to help them against Apple's shipping and very popular products. It's like they're drawing their marketing tactics from the nineties. They don't have any weight in this market to cause it to seize up.

Win 8 tablets are going to have to be damned impressive for them to make any dent in this market segment at all.

microslick

[Anonymous Coward]

bring back the BORG ICON! How much $$ crossed e-paths in order to remove the icon?

head != butt.up()

[GrantRobertson]

So, what do Slashdotters expect a "hands-on" review to reveal and/or include?

People who don't have their heads up their butts (or anyone else's butts).

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[justforgetme]

No, no, no. It is a working product already. Didn't you see IE10 crashing on in the demo video?
I'm telling you man, it's there operational and finished a product as it ever will be!

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Tough Love]

Enough of a taste to scare the crap out of OEMs before the Windows 8 launch...

Looks to me like Microsoft is all set to scare the crap out of themselves.

Not sure about that

[Kupfernigk]

The last head of Rolls Royce was a psychologist, and he did the job that was needed - to get it across to "traders" and "investors" that RR was a reliable delivery vehicle for long term shareholder value and that short-termism made no sense. I suggest that the problem is quite different. Psychopathic personalities tend to accumulate where there is power without obvious accountability. The management of large corporations constitute a perfect field of operations where the complexities and the sheer scale mean that psychopaths can carve out private empires and remain un-noticed for long periods. In a small company, a dysfunctional asshole pursuing his own interests gets noticed quickly.

It is hard for a psychopath to become a good engineer or scientist; it is a career they avoid.

It's interesting (to me at least) that the founders of RIM, faced with a product and management succession crisis, developed a new CEO internally, while Nokia faced with the same crisis brought in a manager from Microsoft. Although both companies are in serious doo-doos, RIM is still profitable and it is Nokia that has been left to develop a load of phones for Microsoft which they are then told will not be supported by the next OS. What's more, RIM owns its next-gen OS and has customers for it in other fields, while Nokia is now completely owned by Microsoft.

Unfortunately it is all too easy to confuse being a psychopath with rugged American individualism.

Re:Not sure about that

[Anonymous Coward]

"rugged American individualism".

I suppose that's why you all have the same goatee.

Hardly matters

[Kupfernigk]

I had a comment moderated up and then moderated down to 0 which was, I thought, a really quite unbiased comparison of the Apple and Microsoft approach which did not attack either company. I concluded, based on this and other similarly moderated posts by other people, that the PR companies of both Apple and MS employ people who gain moderation rights and then moderate down anything which is either a reasoned analysis that might get lifted by a journalist, or a snappy comment that might get picked up by one. In a time of high unemployment of people in the 18-25 age group, this is a relatively cheap PR spend that is easy to sell to managements. Although we often mock it, Slashdot is still perceived in many areas as being influential, especially among developers and IT departments.

I also get comments like this one moderated down - so it's another test post.

Re:Hardly matters

[bertok]

I've had some really strange moderation in the past.

For example, a post pointing out that "cloud services" are dangerous for corporations outside of the United States. The US has spied on foreign corporations in the past to benefit their domestic interests. There is no reason to think such behavior wouldn't continue.

That got moderated into oblivion. It's one of the few times I've had a post go negative.

At the time, I couldn't figure it out, but in light of your comment it makes a lot more sense.

Re:Hardly matters

[bryan1945]

The times of moderation based on merit are long past, my friend. Believe it or not, there were times when Windows/Apple/Linux discussions were conducted in a fairly calm manner. Then the famed "astroturfing" event happened, and it has been downhill ever since. And the increase in legal stories have risen dramatically, pushing the tech to the side. 12 years ago I would read every story, now I just skim them and read a few.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[laejoh]

So he DID a hands-on review after all, he used a Surface keyboard to post his response!

Well, duh..

[cheros]

At least this time it's mentioned before the product hits the shelves. I distinctly recall all the glorious reviews about innovative Windows Vista and how it would change our lives bla bla bla..

The reality was that it was such a dog it was the best thing that ever happened - for Apple.

Isn't Microsoft copying Intel ultrabook announce?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to remember a lot of harping about there being no product ready when Intel flagged ultrabookare. And now they are here. Whether Intel has enough savvy or a clear enough specification is another question.

Doesn't matter that Apple was first. There's money to be made by the rest of the market.

I don't specifically remember whether journos were doing hands on with the sample. I do remember a lot of the press saying ultrabooks were impossible either literally or at a reasonable price point.

But it's all happened!

Obviously a dysfunctional unit

[SgtChaireBourne]

It hurts some people to hear this but the reason they have so many failure is because they only hire the dregs. No one with any chops would go anywhere near the company. That leaves only the climbers and dregs to go into either engineering or management. It's been a vicious cycle going on for decades. There will be no end to it either before the company ends.

Or vagina

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[SpooForBrains]

Offtopic: but I can no longer even compose using HTML. Any tags I put in just get passed through. Anyone know why?

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[sincewhen]

A little like a cargo cult - they try to copy or mimic but do not understand what is really going on.

Surface == Nigel Tuffnel's "unplayed" guitar?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, all the media clips I've seen of the event remind me of this clip from Spinal Tap (the part about not touching the guitar, not the "goes to 11" moment). How are you supposed to "review" a product based on that kind of limited information?

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Serpents]

It's not about whether or not MS allowed the "journalists" to play with the tablets. It's that they lied and said they used and loved something they were not allowed to touch. It's not about Apple/Google/MS product releases. It's about a bunch of people with cameras and press badges calling themselves "journalists", while all they did was copy/paste the press release - something I see more and more often. I really think we should have some kind of a distinction between a journalist as in "someone with minimum professional integrity and IQ above room temperature" and guys who call themselves press just to pick up chicks...

BS

[Anonymous Coward]

Pissy headline: Hands-Off

Actual article: lots of hands-on time, including two attempts to do an end-run around M$ press releases by manually listing tech specs.

Maybe they just didn't want YOU holding the damn thing, eh?

Mary's response

[Anonymous Coward]

The response posted by Mary is disappointing. In it, she basically defends herself by saying that she did, momentarily, get to actually type on the keyboard. But here it is also implied that this was something that was only done briefly. Worse, she basically attacks Sullivan saying for not being "persistent" enough to get at the core features that were being promoted. She then goes on to basically attempt mockery by listing highly detailed and yet completely trivial data about meaningless features like the kickstand, which Sullivan (probably rightly) glossed over as a gimmick. I think Mary missed the point here. Sullivan wasn't complaining about a lack of access to the worthless widgetry that MS was trying to promote, he was complaining about a lack of access to the parts of the system that users and readers give a fuck about.

Despite her justifications, Sullivan seems to be in the right about this not being what one normally considers "hands on". Why should -anyone- have to be "persistent" in order to demo the fucking product, if a product demo was the whole fucking reason for the show? If MS wasn't ready to let people play with the devices, they should have kept their mouths shut about it instead of hosting a press conference, and the journalists who were suckered into attending should have called MS out on that instead of pretending that they got any worthwhile experience with the product.

While Mary may have followed her site's policy on what to call "hands on", it's pretty clear that things were taken a bit too literally and not enough in spirit. MS clearly did not want to give the journalists a usability experience with the device, and usability is basically what "hands on" is for. Saying that you persisted enough to sneak in a bit of typing is not at all a hands on demo, but good for you for technically meeting your site's definition to call it that. Let's be clear that we all have access to thin, rectangular pieces of plastic and we don't need journalists to tell us how it feels in our hands. What we need to know is how good the fucking Surface is before we drop $500+ on -that- particular piece of plastic. Has any "review" given us an accurate report in that regard? If Mary's response is indicative, apparently not.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[ktappe]

Unlike an Apple event, where they make a huge deal about a feature, then immediately invite journalists from the crowd to try it out... Wait, that never happens.

Just more proof that actual facts don't enter into the Apple haters' worlds. In fact, you don't even bother to learn thing one about Apple before you spout off against them. They ALWAYS let hundreds of journalists use the products, warts and all.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here that WOOSH. That was the sound of the parents sarcasm flying over your head. Double Whammy? You don't defray flash because the seek times are pretty much irrelevant. There are no physical heads to move taking huge amounts of (relative) time to position a head. The reading is done electronically and therefore no 'seek' times of any note regardless of fragmentation.

In real life

[Anonymous Coward]

Since this is /. People claim to get hands on with a woman, but they really don't.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[emarkp]

Almost certainly because your post options are in 'Extrans'

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[TheTerseOne]

Oh yes, by all means. What the world needs is more laws. More infrastructure to support those laws. And more time wasted by elected officials (who don't even understand the technology) attempting to figure out what the laws even mean.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[doccus]

And it appears that M$ chose the name with great care.. as in "don't look beneath the..."

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh heh. Well the important thing is seeing an animation run. I was going to suggest a RAM defragmenter (I know it'd have to be slowed down, maybe add pattern tests?), but then it occurred to me a RAM fragmenter might be more useful. Think of it as a tool to tune where the buffer overflows and bad addresses spill.

I've got it! Include an app with great colorful animation showing buffer overflows AS THEY HAPPEN. That would be so cool, I'd want Windows even more. Friends could share URLs of their favorite malware sites, those giving the coolest animations. Integrate buffer overflow animation with Facebook, and that stock might really be worth something too.

Overflow animation could be part of a game app. When you click the "enlist in the military to play cyberwar" button you'd get colorful animations for the remote machines, and score points. If you win, you'd get to control a drone, or get a trip to Syria or something. You'd actually be in the military.

Microsoft could one-up Apple and have a xeneon flash that fires to simulate fireworks or explosions. (They'd probably forget to code to make it work with the camera)

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[benhattman]

Tech journalism seems to be substantially more dreadful still.

This term of yours confuses me. I am familiar with tech companies of course. It's none to surprising that those companies hire PR teams as well as advertisers. Also, I have experience with the organizations that gather PR releases and periodically publish them or post them to webpages. But I know nothing of this "tech journalism" you speak of.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[SpooForBrains]

Many thanks. That was it.

Re:Oh please, get a life.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you like to suck cock.