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OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) Won't Support Some 64-bit Macs With Older GPUs
MojoKid writes "Apple is pitching Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) as the cat's meow, with over 200 new features 'that add up to an amazing Mac experience' — but that only applies if you're rocking a compatible system. Some older Mac models, including ones that are 64-bit capable, aren't invited to the Mountain Lion party, and it's likely because of the GPU. It's being reported (unofficially) that an updated graphics architecture intended to smooth out performance in OS X's graphics subsystem is the underlying issue. It's no coincidence, then, that the unsupported GPUs happen to be ones that were fairly common back before 64-bit support became mainstream."
10.7 dropped support my 1st gen $2000 MacBook Pro, which otherwise still runs perfectly (but with only 10.6).
Apple's hardware isn't just pricey, but they like you to buy new hardware on a regular basis.
It appears that any Mac purchased within the last 3.5 years is ok, judging by the list on that site. I'd say that it's not too horrifying that a computer 4 years old may not run the latest upcoming system. It's a tough balancing act deciding between supporting older equipment, but nobody should be surprised that Apple only looks forward in that regard. That's how they've always been.
I've always been baffled at people buying Mac, hardware to me it's a bit like console gaming, which also baffles me these days, as it's got all the hassles PC gaming has these days with none of the flexibility.
I wonder if anybody dreamed it would be this successful.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
At watching all those experiencing nerd rage that Microsoft is ending XP support after a mere 14 years, and how they are so angry at Microsoft they are going to buy a Mac next rather than upgrade to Windows 7. Then we read stuff like this.
Only a little nerd rage here on slashdot from XP loyalists, but wired.com and CIO magazine's website was filled with them and they were somewhat serious about using a Mac next to avoid planned obscelence in their minds.
http://saveie6.com/
...scrapes by.
That's reedonkulous.
Unmitigated success for Apple has been bad for us.
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I've always been baffled at people buying Mac, hardware to me it's a bit like console gaming, which also baffles me these days, as it's got all the hassles PC gaming has these days with none of the flexibility.
Really? Last I heard console gaming had no configuration issues, drivers, etc which a PC does..
Holy upgrades Batman!
If they make the next version of X-Code support only Mountain Lion like they made the current version only support Lion - I'm going to scream! Because my clients wanted to support features of the latest iOS, I had to upgrade to a new Mac because my older model couldn't run Lion - which is required for the latest X-Code.
"Lame" - Galaxar
You mean Apple is forcing people to buy their hardware again to update their software?
I, for one, am totally shocked at this completely unexpected turn of events.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Maybe you won't be able to run the OS, but it'll still be a long time before apps require 10.8. My 5 year old MBP (late 07) is supported. 5 Years isn't exactly bad. Had the 8600m GPU not burned itself out just after the warranty period, i'd probably still be using the thing.
First Post because my graphics card is awesome!
Actually, the GPU in the Retina MBP is not all that awesome - the huge pixel density is pushing the Nvidia 650M in the retina Macbook Pro to its limits, causing some performance issues compared to the equivalent desktop on the non-retina version. Examples include rapid scrolling on webpages and so on.
Mountain Lion apparently doesn't play nice with 32-bit GPU drivers, and while Apple could spend time and resources bringing older models up to par, the Cupertino company decided it was better off dropping support altogether.
If this were a true hardware limitation, it would still be bad. But not wanting to update drivers? While you are sitting on $100 billion cash? How many driver writers do you need for the limited selection of tightly controlled hardware?
Ugh.
Not anymore. A 6 year old machine might not be able to run the latest games, but it can run the latest Windows or Linux OS, the latest work processing and productivity software, and the latest browsers. I have a 2006 Core 2 machine with 4 GB RAM and a nice big harddrive in it. It runs Ubuntu 12.04, Windows 7, and Windows 8, runs Office 2010, runs Google Chrome and Opera 12.... this is a machine that does what most people need it to. This is very different from say 1996, where a computer from 1990 was laughable.
But we're not even talking about 6 year old machines here; where talking about machines you might have bought in 2008/2009. That's 3-4 years old! I have a quad core machine that old that can even run some of the latest games at decent resolution and FPS, and of course runs the latest Windows and Linux OS. It's unacceptable that a 3 year old mac could not run the latest Mac OS.
My Xbox 360 is 6 years old and I have no problems running 2012 games.
In before the haters, just think back to the release of Vista and signed vs. unsigned drivers. In this case, we're talking about drawing a very clear line between four year old Mac hardware which will not be supported, and everything else, which will be fully supported. There is no gray area.
Now think back to the debut of mandatory driver signing with Windows Vista - where individual components in your computer would cease to function after an upgrade for no reason other than Microsoft wanted your manufacturer to pay extra for the privilege. Even worse, there really was no way to know before the upgrade if your system would function entirely. At least Apple's upgrade paths are clearly defined, and always have been - from Classic to OS X, PowerPC to Intel, and now Lion to Mountain Lion. You knew what you were getting into when you bought the Mac, and that's a very rigid upgrade cycle of roughly three years (right after your warranty expires) if you want to remain on the bleeding edge.
Is there any company that doesn't like you to buy their product as frequently as possible?
Every time they update the OS they claim to have added hundreds of new "features." Most are useless crap, and the good ones are quickly orphaned.
And this is why Mac OSX doesn't cost just $19.99. If you bought a Mac in 2011, you've already subsidized your purchase of OSX Mountain Lion you'll buy later in the year. Problem is, if you bought a Mac in 2008, you've already used up your copies of OSX, so you don't get to buy Mountain Lion at $19.99. Apple's decided you need to buy a new Mac to subsidize the next 4 versions of OSX, which you'll be free to buy for $19.99 of course. Until 2016 of course when the process starts over again.
hmm I guess all those reports of certain games not working correctly if you had a different (older) hardware revision of the console were just false then and that no such thing ever happened.
Would love to see a citation on this claim....
It isn't just the graphics card, you need a a Mac with a 64-bit EFI (Ars Technica article has more detail at the bottom).
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
As a software company, it's in Microsoft's best interest to prevent "new hardware" from being a barrier to entry for buying their software. (Remember the "Vista Capable" mess?)
As a hardware company, Apple mostly uses their software to try to entice you into buying new hardware.
I have a macpro1,1 with 8 cores(clovertown), 16 gigs ram, and the current 2011 ATI video card.
Yes I have had the machine for 6 years and I could upgrade. But the current hardware is not that much of a performance upgrade for the cost.
Xeon based systems of this generation like the Dell 2900, 1950, are still a viable system and still well supported and will be for years into the future.
Apple decided to stop supporting this machine a few years back by not allowing it to run a 64 bit kernel with the lame excuse that a 32bit boot loader can not boot a 64 bit os.
Solution that works great.
Hackintosh your machintosh.
Install cameleon and boot the mac in legacy mode as a hackintosh. With Snow Leopard, the machine runs the 64 bit kernel and is noticeably faster. There is no reason that Mountain Lion will not work well also since the macpro1,1 is the same hardware as the 2,1 and most of the 3,1.
By doing this you can now run any video card that you want and still maintain a legal right to use the software.
I was starting to decide on upgrading to a current mac pro, but to be honest, there is no reason to drop that kind of change on a machine that Apple will drop within a 5 year period.
You might have heard people complaining about long load times. I have an old Xbox from 2006, so old it doesn't even have an HDMI port. It doesn't have internal storage so I can't pre-load a game onto the harddrive, and some games like Skyrim have unbearable load times between zones. Newer revision consoles allow you to load all that data locally, so you're not reading if off disk. But the fact is I can still play the game just fine once it's done loading.
I've just dropped a 256gb SSD in a thinkpad from 2006. The thing runs better than when it was brand new and it runs considerably cooler and quieter. It's for development and non-gaming entertainment so even if is no doubt lacking in the gaming department that doesn't matter.
I intended to keep my macbook until it falls apart or the battery dies. There's no need to buy new hardware just for the sake of it if you don't need it. Unless you buy rubbish low-end Dells or Acers which then you'll be lucky to get 3 years out of it.
Treat your mac as a hackintosh and boot it in legacy mode. Do it with my 1,1 and have been running lion in full 64bit mode. I have heard the ML DP4 works well also and it can be installed as an upgrade install.
Mountain Lion kernel is 64-bit only, and requires 64-bit EFI firmware. Older systems have 32-bit EFI. Unofficial Chameleon EFI emulator can run 64-bit EFI on some older systems.
The DMA channels of the Super NES can run in manual mode or in an automatic mode called "HDMA". Manual mode acts like a hardware accelerated memcpy and is essentially identical to the "Blast Processing" of the Sega Genesis. HDMA restarts at the end of each scanline and is useful for fancy 3D-like scrolling effects. But the first Super NES consoles shipped with a defective CPU that would freeze if a manual DMA finishes right before an HDMA starts. (These older consoles show version 1/1/1 in The Lion King and PowerPak instead of the more common 2/1/3.) I seem to remember one of the three versions of Street Fighter II for Super NES triggering this bug and needing to be recalled.
He is right and there was an offer to replace units so while it sucks you get a new xbox out of it. Between RROD and all the other issues I'm sure MS has given away more hardware than anyone else.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/18/new-xbox-360-update-incompatible-with-some-models-ms-offering-r/2
As a software company, it's in Microsoft's best interest to prevent "new hardware" from being a barrier to entry for buying their software.
That's because you are not really Microsoft's customer. Relatively few of us actually buy any version of Windows directly from Microsoft. Mostly it is purchased through OEMs. You are not Microsoft's customer. HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, etc are Microsoft's customers. They sell a license to them and those companies resell it to you. The result is that Microsoft has a hard time paying attention to their users and it shows in the experience of using their products.
As a hardware company, Apple mostly uses their software to try to entice you into buying new hardware.
Actually Apple is fundamentally a software company. Nobody buys a Macintosh because of the hardware. Load Windows on Mac Hardware and without seeing the Apple badge on it you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an Apple PC and a Dell PC. Sure the hardware is nice and given the price charged it darn well better be. No, the difference comes in the software. You buy Apple hardware to get Apple software. They make their money by bundling the two. Same with the iPhone, iPod and iPad. You can get similar hardware for similar or lesser prices. People might like the iPad or iPhone but if you loaded Android on them there is nothing to differentiate them. People buy the iPhone and iPad for the software when all is said and done. The design and branding is just extra.
Really? You're complaining that a 6 year old computer isn't up to running modern stuff? Really?
Seriously, if you're that concerned about having to buy new machines, sell it after 3 years. Pour $2000 MacBook Pro would almost certainly have fetched $16-1800, and you'd have got a new one, capable of running more modern OSes for effectively $2-400.
First gen MBPs are 6+ years old... so fans can still brag about the 5+ year life...
Math is hard.
Depends on what you use it for. The current generation is more than twice as fast. If you get work done on it and the speed makes you more productive, it's beyond the time when an upgrade will likely pay for itself. If it isn't, then you'd probably be better off with something cheaper in the first place.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If you are uncertain of the date from which your Mac was produced, I suggest the CoconutID freeware.
It ID's your MacBook (or other model) and pegs the manufacture date within a few days of precision. Clever - it can also perform a lookup and see if a Mac with your ID has ever been reported as stolen. Interesting, for some eBayer's. ;-)
If you ARE on and Mac portable, look at their Coconut Battery app, at the same location. Great for managing battery age, charge history and cycles. It got me free replacement batteries at the Apple Store, on two different machines/occasions. I haven't ever managed that with Sony or Lenovo...
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Oracle likes you to buy their products just once. It's only the paying thing that they want you to do as frequently as possible.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Incidentally (and not surprisingly) you have the same issue with the retinal iPad displays.
The next time you see a display at your favorite big box store (or wherever you have iPads on display), walk up to it, go to the Home screen and flick the icons back and worth, and watch the image tear like crazy.
Assuming it has web access, try opening a webpage and do the same thing - the tearing is probably more noticeable in Mobile Safari.
If you wondered how on earth they managed to get a graphics processor capable of dealing with a 2048x1536 display into a tablet, the answer is simple: they didn't.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Coffin makers. Generally a one time purchase aside from stage props.
was no compatibility issues.
Apple Marketdroid:There's no compatibility problem between the software/hardware if you buy the latest and greatest hardware. It works like a charm!
This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
And his 6 year old computer could run both the OS it came with (would that be 10.4?) and the version of Mac OS X available when Windows 7 was released in 2009 (10.6, Snow Leopard).
Plus, it runs last year's OS X, 10.7, Lion.
In other words, it's roughly the same.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Chrome supports 10.5(sidebar)
Firefox supports 10.5
Safari supports 10.5
I did read an article the other week that Chrome is thinking about dropping 10.5 support in a few months.
Is this a ppc Mac? I just looked it up, and that was announced 7 years ago. It looks like they were selling them until Aug 06 (6 years ago), but if you purchased one in that time you can't really expect newer software to work.
The GPUs are exactly the reason Apple isn't supporting these older machines. Apple has a new graphical subsystem in 10.8 designed for retinas which is increasing the complexity of CPU/GPU communication. The older GPUs can't run the new graphical subsystem. So no they can't handle it.
Why is it unacceptable. What do you want to do that you can't do with Lion?
Instead of buying new hardware, spend a few minutes in Terminal and run Mt Lion on your unsupported Mac anyways: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1325818
There's two problems with a Dell running Windows 8 -- Dell and Windows 8.
This IS Slashdot. Just install Linux on it. This is what you've been waiting for. Remember, you bought it because it was UNIX -- with a shell -- and you can run X. Well, now that you're done trying out the OS that came with the computer, you can actually install the OS you wanted to be using all along.
Talk is cheap. Supply exceeds demand.
Going to take karma hit but here we go.
Really you are full of shit, it has nothing to do with the precious MBP display
AMD Eyeinfinity and Nvidia Optimus can drive 5 displays at 1920 × 1080 and the technology is 3 years old already.
The graphics cards have no fucking issue driving the pixel desity that the MBP.
Also here is the specs on the 650M http://www.nvidia.in/object/geforce-gt-650m-in.html#pdpContent=2 .
See the max resolutions are higher the MBP display.
Shit fucking look at the story from yesterday http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/10/2349230/a-fresh-look-at-multi-screen-pc-gaming .
I have a 1999 G4 Mac that runs just fine (but only supported up to 10.3 or something). It's a freakin' 13 year old computer that runs better than most 5 year old commodity grade PCs running WinXP so I fail to see any "smack in the face".
I've always been baffled at people buying Mac, hardware to me it's a bit like console gaming, which also baffles me these days, as it's got all the hassles PC gaming has these days with none of the flexibility.
Even more baffling is your grammar and choice of punctuation.
You really should get something more modern, may I suggest an MGB?
Jeez, why would you stick with a company that would do that? Seriously dude just get a nice Windows laptop and make a Hackentosh out of it. Then you can have the nicer and cheaper hardware while still enjoying OSX if you want and a free Windows as a bonus, in case you run into something you want that doesn't have a Mac version.
Although I have to wonder, what with the slow updates and the hardware getting farther behind the curve, if Cook isn't gonna end up abandoning the Pro users, if not X86 altogether. It was Jobs that was into "Apple is the machine on which movies are made" whereas Cook just doesn't seem all that jazzed up, not that I can blame him. After all Apple had a damned good thing going with Nvidia that Intel took a giant dump on without even caring what Apple thought and if its one thing Apple likes is control.
So I could easily see Cook keeping just a couple of consumer models, since the consumer units are frankly more powerful than the average user is gonna care about anyway so they don't need refreshes as often, whereas the Pro users need the extra GPU power and more frequent refreshes that the consumers frankly just don't need. Its pretty obvious that Apple is making the majority of its money on consumer electronics so it really wouldn't hurt the bottom line and would probably make more money long term by cutting guys like you loose.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I have a 5yo Vaio that is perfectly capable of running Ubuntu with XP and Win7 VMs (for testing websites in IE7-9). My (web designer) colleague has a 5yo Mac that he can't even run any 2yo browsers on NATIVELY!?!
And when X Windows or Wayland requires OpenGL 3.x throughout the OS to run then we can talk. OS X 10.8 baseline profile for OpenGL is 3.2. That means system-wide Quartz Extreme is accelerated via that baseline profile. Seeing that GNOME and KDE latest are just now sucking hind tit with OpenGL ES 2.0 bits which is a subset of OpenGL 2.x it is rathers clear that older GPUs will be supported on those DEs. If they don't complain when KWin and GNOME's equivalent requires OpenGL 3.x accelerated GPUs tells me they'll have grown up.