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Chicken Vaccines Combine To Produce Deadly Virus
stoilis sends this quote from an article at Science:
"Vaccines aren't supposed to cause disease. But that appears to be what's happening on Australian farms. Scientists have found that two virus strains used to vaccinate chickens there may have recombined to form a virus that is sickening and killing the animals 'This shows that recombination of such strains can happen and people need to think about it,' says Glenn Browning, a veterinary microbiologist at the University of Melbourne, Parkville, in Australia and one of the co-authors on the paper."
How glorious it is to be chicken!
To hatch from an egg; To grow feathers!
To scratch the ground with my claws and beak!
To cluck!
Soon the gods themselves will consume my juicy flesh, and they shall exclaim:
"Behold, this chicken is good!"
Where they "accidentally" released a virus to kill all the rabbits. Just saying that they hav a mixed history with such things.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Pretty interesting (but not totally surprising) that viruses can combine and recombine like this. They're remarkably good at changing to defeat a host's defenses.
Can you catch it if you eat a chicken?
No. Cross-species viruses are rare... Viruses co-opt cells to produce more viruses by injecting their own viral code into the DNA/RNA of the host cell. As a rule, those genetic sequences aren't "cross platform" any more than binary code on a computer is. Cross-species bacterial infection is far more common, as bacterium contains all the materials required to reproduce... it only requires a hospitable environment.
Are aussie chickens exported? (If you order chicken at an Outback steakhouse do you get a bird grown in the USA?
Chickens are raised in almost every country, and exported between them routinely. So yes, it's possible that the chicken you're eating in the USA was raised in Australia. Or the UK. Or China. The real question is, why the hell are you ordering chicken at a steakhouse? I mean, I'm a girl and even I order the steaks there. I'm not gonna go there and order a fucking caesar salad, it'd be blasphemous.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
They combined more than one chicken vaccine to form a bigger, badder defense against evil?
Go Poultron Force!
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Don't cross the strains! You get a Megazord of a virus.
Ezekiel 23:20
The problem is, they are not wrong.
Nope. They're wrong. So are you. The vaccines protect against specific strains of virus. If another viral agent comes along and incorporates either, or both, strains into its genetic makeup and produces a viable virus, it is now transmissible whether the host is immunized or not. Immunization may have provided the raw materials, but the product, once manufactured, no longer requires them.
So if you forego immunization, you're vulnerable to all the strains the immunizations would have protected you against, as well as the new strain. So the anti-vaxxer is not only reducing herd immunity to the strains we can protect against, but also still just as vulnerable to the new virus. The only people who should be opting out of vaccines are those whose vaccination is counter-indicated due to a bona fide medical condition. If you aren't one of those people, and you refuse vaccination, your ass should be deported or jailed, as you pose a clear and present threat to public health -- you're in the same category to me as drunk drivers.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
How the next strain of deadly bird flu will occur is that a human will get both bird flu and swine flu at the same time and the viruses will eventually swap enough material to create a super-virus. Biologists already know this so it shouldn't be a surprise that it happens with live vaccines that are conjoined in the same body also.
So the anti-vaxxer is not only reducing herd immunity to the strains we can protect against, but also still just as vulnerable to the new virus. The only people who should be opting out of vaccines are those whose vaccination is counter-indicated due to a bona fide medical condition. If you aren't one of those people, and you refuse vaccination, your ass should be deported or jailed, as you pose a clear and present threat to public health -- you're in the same category to me as drunk drivers.
So what you are trying to say is that the chickens that refused immunization caused the outbreak? Stupid chickens!
Yes and no. If the original vaccinations are the vector for the new virus, then, yes, the vaccinations are part of the problem.
Except that antibiotics do not kill virii - part of the problem with overuse of antibiotics is the general belief that they help with viral infections. Let me repeat...... antibiotics DO NOT kill virii.
Barack Obama is as Australian as Outback steakhouse is.
********************
I object to Intellect without Discipline.
Totally off topic as to the article but relevant to vegetarian restaurant options. If you don't want to eat any meat products avoid Cracker Barrel. Everything there, from the mac and cheese to the collard greens has ham in it.
We learned this when we stopped there on a family trip with our Muslim brother in law. I think in the end all he dined on was bread-sticks and coke.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
As in most complex issues the truth is somewhere in the middle. The "anti vaccine" fanatics who are rabidly against all vaccines are probably wrong. So are people like you who are pro vaccine to the point of being blind to the risks.
Injecting vaccines, usually involving complex genetic material, preservatives, etc. in to people who are also composed of complex genetic material, is a not a no risk endeavor. Most of the time the benefits out weigh the risk, BUT. . . the more careless and cavalier the vaccines makers and advocates are the higher the risks become. Especially beware of vaccine makers who have a financial interest in everyone being injected with their vaccine.
When the pro vaccine crowd become completely blind to the risks and start pushing every vaccine under the sun to everyone for everything its just begging for trouble. Vaccines should be used appropriately to deal with real risks. If the risks of the vaccine outweigh or approach the risk of the pathogen, or the risks of exposure to the pathogen are very low, you pro vaccine bigots can do as much harm or even more than the anti vaccine fanatics. Performing science experiments on millions of people isn't a particularly great idea unless you need to deal with a real risk, and have a well understood solution.
@de_machina
+ 1 insightful.
I am one of those who is pro-vaccination but also pro-choice. Just as I don't think a woman should be forced to carry a baby to end-of-term, neither do I think people should be forced to inject stuff in arms.
I have been fully-vaccinated because I think it's a good idea, but I would never force another person to do it: It's their body, not mine. They are free individuals, not serfs to be held-down and forced to carry a baby or vaccine.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
The problem with your position is the fact that vaccines don't work unless a large percentage of the population is vaccinated.
Look what has happened in Nigeria with the effort to eliminate polio.
Cumulative decisions to not vaccinate have significant consequences to the rest of the population.
It is very unlike abortion.
You know what else doesn't work unless a large percentage of the population does it?
Communism. Yeah.
I'd upvote if i had mod points. Getting tired of being caught in the middle of 2 extremist views, each one labelling me as being the other.
Viruses are not decidedly living nor dead as far as we can tell. They are more like parasites to living cells but cannot be defined as living by themselves as they do nothing a living being does (in particular eating). They are "deactivated" in a vaccine, i.e., they have their most "toxic" part removed.
Also you should not have been downvoted for asking a genuine question.
These were attenuated viruses, which are weakened but not outright killed. Those are also sometimes used in humans. It's more effective than viruses that have been completely killed and obliterated into their marker proteins.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
A pox on those chickens, I say! A pox!
"vaccines, by definition, are dead viruses"
No, they aren't.
Vaccines, by definition, are agents that induce immunity to a given virus infection with a lower health cost than the real threat. It can be a "dead" virus, it can be an attenuated one, it can be protein group... as long as it produces the intended effect, it's a vaccine.
Cross-species viruses are actually quite common, and it has nothing to do with the genetic sequences either; DNA is DNA and the code is evolved to build viruses. Usually the factor that prevents a virus from being cross species is that the surface protiens of the virus doesn't fit the receptors sites, but that can also occure in the same species. I'd be surprized if chickens are exported from Australia to the US, the cost of keeping them frozen durring shipment from Australia would be considerable and chicken just isn't that expensive.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
the sad thing is that there are teabaggers who would believe this.
I for one am looking forward to my future of a different needle for a different disease every day. That's the point of "eradicating" ad disease.
Why should I care if someone else gets infected? Well when I have a heart attack, if there's a hospital bed shortage due to some idiot that is burdening the health system all because they refused to get a vaccine shot when they were kids then I most damn well will care.
This isn't some theoretical crap either. This has actually happened to me. I was rushed to hospital with some heart problem when I was young. I sat in the waiting room and the nurses strapped the ECG on to me where I sat because there was no enough room in the hospital due to a myriad of other factors.
I'm not saying that people who didn't get vaccinated are at fault, just that they are a burden, a burden on my tax dollars used to provide basic healthcare in this country.
Yet another person who doesn't understand how vaccines work.
If everyone takes a vaccine, it doesn't need to make them all completely immune to the disease.
All it needs to do is increase resistance enough that each person, on average, infects less than one other person. At/after this point the number of people with the disease will decrease until noone has to worry about it anymore.
As in most complex issues the truth is somewhere in the middle. The "anti vaccine" fanatics who are rabidly against all vaccines are probably wrong.
Sheesh. Probably. A lot of people's children died or were crippled or paralyzed. A trip back in time would probably cure a lot of anti-vaccine people.
So are people like you who are pro vaccine to the point of being blind to the risks.
Injecting vaccines, usually involving complex genetic material, preservatives, etc. in to people who are also composed of complex genetic material, is a not a no risk endeavor.
Everything entails risk
Especially beware of vaccine makers who have a financial interest in everyone being injected with their vaccine.
This is an interesting statement that I hear a lot. Vaccines are not a high profit item. maintenance drugs that a person has to take every day for the rest of their lives is where the money is. Plus liability. People do not want relative safety any more, they demand absolute safety. So the end game here may be many children dying because the liability caused by successful lawsuits of the very few affected by an adverse reaction may very well allow you to have your way. The end result will be more dead kids however. As a case in point, the most highest-revenue-generating vaccine - conjugate pneumococcal vaccine for children (Prevnar), the hvaccine, has annual gross U.S. sales of about $1 billion. Sounds interesting, but the markets for cholesterol-lowering agents; hair-loss products; potency drugs; and drugs for heart disease, obesity, or neurological problems are often $7 billion per drug or more.
Annual revenues for Lipitor, a cholesterol-lowering agent, are greater than revenues for the entire worldwide vaccine industry. So yeah, looks like those of us who survive will get to take our cholesterol reducing meds.
When the pro vaccine crowd become completely blind to the risks and start pushing every vaccine under the sun to everyone for everything its just begging for trouble.
Did you hear about Dayton Ohio, where the state police have been breaking down doors and forcibly administering vaccines? That's ridiculous of course, but your strawman is just as bad
Vaccines should be used appropriately to deal with real risks.
Ever had a child die of measles, or become paralyzed from polio? Whooping cough? The sheer lunacy of the anti-vaccine crowd, and don't deny you are one of them, is that because they work, you don't think they are necessary. When children were dying or permanently messed up from those diseases, people were clamoring for them.
I had whooping cough a few years ago, and I have to tell you that any parent subjecting their child to that is not a fit parent in my estimation. I almost passed out several times, and could have died. Fun stuff, the whoops tended to happen at the bottom of a breathing cycle, and you hack and hack but can't draw a breath . Then you get a brownout and finally the spasms go away. If you don't die first. It's really terrible, and if I subjected my child to that, my guilt would be Judas-esque. note: I got it because the vaccine doesn't last forever, and herd immunity is probably gone in my area. Perhaps you can count that as one little victory in the drive to eliminate vaccines?
If the risks of the vaccine outweigh or approach the risk of the pathogen, or the risks of exposure to the pathogen are very low, you pro vaccine bigots can do as much harm or even more than the anti vaccine fanatics.
Bigots? Har. Then what do you call anti-vaccine, anti-scientific people who get their science knowledge off of Jenny McCarthy, (who by the way is showing her intellectual credentials in Playboy again) and follow the advice of a thoroughly discredited British researcher who was working in conjunction with a lawyer in order to profit from fraudulent research?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm a parent. My kids happen to be old enough to have gotten some vaccinations (and are up to date on them), however at one point they weren't old enough to get them yet. Why do I care if someone doesn't get vaccinated? Because if enough people don't get vaccinated, herd immunity breaks down and babies (who aren't old enough to get the vaccinations), the elderly and those who can't get vaccinated for valid medical reasons (e.g. allergies) will get sick. If it was just a matter of only the unvaccinated getting sick, I'd agree with you and would argue for vaccines to be voluntary. However, since people's choices not to vaccinate can lead to the death of other people, I think it is well within the rights of the government to require them for all people (except for those with valid medical reasons).
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
They work for the people who are vaccinated.
Most vaccines aren't 100% effective. They reduce the number of people who can get the disease, but don't eliminate the risk. However, if enough of the population is immunised, every person on which the vaccine fails is surrounded by people who are immune.
Likewise, pre-immunised babies may be vulnerable. If almost all adults are immune, they are protected until they can be jabbed. Likewise, when you suffer a prolonged illness that weakens your immune system, you are more vulnerable. An immunised society protects you until you are healed.
And if we are really good, we can completely eliminate the disease from our entire population, so we can drop the vaccines (which have a cost). As we did with small-pox, and polio in most of the world.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
Thank you for demonstrating your superior knowledge and use of the English language.
So what? You'd force them to get it?
He's talking about a hypothetical person. People are dying and suffering around the world all the time, I don't see you bursting into tears right now. You seem to have prejacked in anticipation of calling someone Ayn Rand. You're a pious hypocrite.
No. That is invasion of privacy. I refused to get the bird flu vaccine during the global panic a couple years ago, because I noticed that the medical companies had gotten an exceptional carte blanche waiver for all ill effects.This was all a big pharma ploy. And lo and behold, the vaccines that came out of this has shown itself many times to have bad side effects.
Can I light a sig ?
A maker like Merck of a product like Gardasil lobbying politicians in an effort to get laws passed to compel children to get a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease so Merck can profit is where the boundaries are being crossed. Especially since its a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease instead of a communicable disease.
@de_machina
And you vaccine uber alles people are doing what you ALWAYS do. I never even hinted that people shouldn't be vaccinated for communicable diseases that they are likely to encounter, especially where the vaccines are well understood and risks are tolerable.
I am just opposed to people who try to down play the issues with vaccines, pretend they don't exist, engage in the same scare tactics the anti vaccine people indulge in and maul anyone who suggests vaccinations, especially forced vaccinations, should be approached thoughtfully instead of with blind acceptance.
Like I said, you pro vaccine fanatics are just as bad and just as dangerous as the anti vaccine fanatics. A better path is the middle road to recognize the value of some vaccines, but not blindly accept them all. Some of them, like the chicken pox vaccine are worse than the disease. The polio vaccine has started to reach a point of diminishing returns since its been eradicated in most places. The use of Thimerisol, which has mercury in it, as a preservative in something you inject in children is really questionable even if its hard to prove it either way.
@de_machina
The death toll from Chicken Pox pre-immunization was ~100 people a year. 55% of those were in adults who make up only 5% of the population. 45 deaths a year is a statistical anomaly. Children are more likely to die from playing high school football than they are from catching chicken pox. Cooking a home cooked meal is more dangerous than catching Chicken Pox. Yep. More people die every year from home cooked meals than from Chicken Pox.
Now, add to that that we have not yet seen the fall out from the Chicken Pox vaccine. The Chicken Pox vaccine is not permanent. It only offers temporary immunity. Since 55% of the deaths from Chicken Pox are in adults, and adults only make up 5% of the cases, adult Chicken Pox is an order of magnitude more dangerous than childhood Chicken Pox. So, by giving your child the vaccine as a toddler, you massively increase their risk of death from the disease.
Your comment very nicely helps to make demachina's point about the pro vaccine crowd being completely blind to the risks.