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USB 3.0 100W Power Standard Seeks To End Proprietary Chargers
judgecorp writes "The USB 3.0 Promoter Group has published a Power Delivery standard which will deliver up to 100W. The specification (press release with link to full details) includes new bi-directional — and backward compatible — USB cables, and has been proposed as the new connector between mains adapters and laptops, eliminating e-waste by standardizing a proprietary component."
At home, only having to run one cable to the wall might be nice, and being able to grab some juice from any friend may end the disaster that is forgetting your laptop power brick when on the road. And imagine only having to pack a single power hub instead of three or four redundant transformers (how many people don't use their laptop to charge their phone nowadays?).
http://xkcd.com/927/
How the hell are they going to get 100W through flimsy USB cables and connectors? 5A at 20V is the profile, but that isn't going to happen with standard USB connectors, regardless of cable gauge. Have a fire extinguisher ready for the inevitable burning laptop when the contact resistance is a couple of Ohm.
... the High Consortium still was not able to do something with the need to optically inspect the cable and the socket in order to connect them (barrying blind attempts at forcing one to another, whose average number per a successful connection is interesingly substantially greater than the expected 1.5).
A question remains: will companies like Apple, who have used proprietary chargers and connectors for years despite the prevalence of the USB standard, adopt the new cable?
I can't imagine they will, even with their recent EPEAT flip-flop. What I can't figure out is if they are just trying to keep their products distinct or they don't like it when someone else has a really good idea or what. They've already chosen Thunderbolt as their new adapter of choice, and while they'll never use that for the iFamily of products (since so many people won't/can't buy machines with that connectivity), I can't imagine they'll cave to the USB standard now. I do hope I'm wrong though.
On a side note, does anyone know how many thunderbolt devices are actually available for consumer purchase at this point? Are any of them reasonably priced?
Please tell me about not getting an electric shock every time you touch a USB connector...
They're not designed for 100W. At all.
And no, only an idiot charges his phone off of his laptop. The inefficiency of doing this is so ridiculous, words can't express the fail. So I'm showing you this instead.
Ha, my current laptop runs at 20V @ 11A so looks like I won't be running something like this beast on it.
Does anyone else think this could be a future attack vector? If use existing terminology, the charger is the host and the laptop is the client, what negotiation takes place before more advanced signalling occurs other than something to negotiate what power is required? Basically, what's to stop an attacker putting some sort of malware on the charger, either something to exploit a driver or an actual executable payload on mass media?
That is just silly talk, my implementation will require at least 1.21 gigawatts
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
how many people don't use their laptop to charge their phone nowadays?
Count me as one. I don't travel with a laptop - just my phone charger if I'm bringing my phone.
The laptop weighs a few pounds and needs its own bag. The phone charger weighs about 4 oz and takes hardly any space. Same for business trips, too. Actually, I'm using my laptop less and less. A smartphone and a tablet is more the enough for me. And the rare occasions that I need to sit down and do a lot of number crunching, I use one of those "archaic soon to be dead" desktops with a nice big screen and ergonomic keyboard and wrist rest and comfy chair.
A lot of wrist and back pain disappeared when I started using the laptop less.
how bout that for environmental?
This would save me from carrying extra junk about and having to find a very specific type of junk when it fails. This is a brilliant idea.
Everyone seems to be bashing this idea, I've no idea why.
Nope it's a power cable - ZAP!
Power cables should in fact look like POWER cable. Power has no business disguising itself as USB especially at home!
Nope it's a power cable - ZAP! Power cables should in fact look like POWER cable. Power has no business disguising itself as USB especially at home!
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Pie in the sky dream !! Ain't no way no 20+ AMPS is godda run down your USB !! Ain't godda in a gadadavida !!
From TFS: how many people don't use their laptop to charge their phone nowadays?).
Well, anyone who would rather charge their phone quicker directly from the mains, for a start.
Also, once you're carrying a laptop and transformer around anyway, the extra weight and bulk of a small phone charger is irrelevant
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
What we need is legislation. Like micro USB charging for new mobile phones, that essentially does away with 99% with the forced "variety" mobile phone makers push on customers.
After all, they don't want you using your old phone's charger with your new phone.
So, at least country-wide we have a standard electrical socket. Instead of messing with USB power, eSATA power etc why not have a standard input socket on laptops that is open and non proprietary?
Standard output socket - transformer/converter - standard input
If at least on a country level we can have standard out & standard in sockets, almost any "power brick" in between can be slightly special.
Having said that, we've had standard cables & sockets of so many different types over the years that it's fair to say we'll probably never manage to have this glorified, magical one standard to rule them all...UNLESS we force it by law.
semiaccurate.com has a lot more information. Not just the USB 3.0 group, but the USB 2.0 group as well has adopted this approved this "power delivery" spec. There are USB 2.0 PD and USB 3.0 PD icons shown in the link. So it looks to me like instead of USB 3.1 and USB 2.1, with or without PD will continue to be an option so they'll probably be known as USB 2.0 PD and USB 3.0 PD.
Also, USB 3.0 by itself has increased power availability: 900mA instead of the USB 2.0 500mA. This alone obviates the need for dual USB connectors to power an external 2.5" hard drive.
Quite some time ago, Douglas Adams "declared war" on "little dongly things"
His article is worth reading
When I saw 100W I thought : "cool if they went for such a power it should be to enable to power my laptop". Then I looked at the power at the exit of the adapter : 19V 4.74A : almost 100W. And it is from last year with "only" 2 cores, so I doubt if will be enough in a few years. Why didn't they took an confortable margin like 200W, so if the standart succed, we wont have the same kind of odd stuff such like puting 2 usb to power my laptop (like for some hard drive like with USB 2.0) ? Otherwise I like the idea, hoping it will not loose part of his relevance with : standart USB 3.0 PD, micro USB 3.0 PD, mini USB 3.0 PD, ? USB3 PD (used only for printers and scanner).
and will remain incomplete until this HIGH SPEED COMMUNICATION BUS not only includes delivery of megawatt power, but also contains virtual pipelines for natural gas, fresh drinking water, bidirectional grey water (so communities can take charge of water use), and sewage outflow. The USB2.0 legacy devices can be easily retrofitted for the 4-inch sewer mains that are standard, but USB3.0 should support 6-inch mains because more people will be "computing on the go as they go".
In addition to the basic proposals that merge these basic utilities into this HIGH SPEED COMMUNICATIONS BUS, there are also plans to include a transaction-based medical dispensary, a bidirectional auto-typed blood plasma conduit certain to revolutionize blood banks and dialysis methods, and the Small Product Packet Service which will enable a new generation of plug-and-play vending machines, such as condoms and playing card pips and raisin dispensers shaped like bunny rabbits.
Steampunk hackers have successfully lobbied to include a pneumatic tube object delivery system along with next-generation speaking tube technology, where the simple expedient of ornately decorated brass tubes will deliver voice, data, video -- and lunch!
It's all happening here at U.S.B., folks -- all these vital technologies in one HIGH SPEED COMMUNICATIONS BUS!
"We put people on the moon... our ancestors coaxed termites out of the mound with cylindrical sticks... but we cannot make a damned computer plug that fits no matter which way you put it in?!??"
Sorry, the round plug that fits in any-which-way did not make the spec. Can't have everything.
Of course, here in Europe we expect all mobile phones other than Apple to use the same connector, and we expect that any phone charger will work with almost any phone (just a few very small chargers won't charge large phones at reasonable speed). Despite the restriction on our freedom to have lots of incompatible chargers, we seem to get by. This is an obvious step forward.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
It isn't a power cable, it is SELV (safety extra low voltage). If you want to comment on power distribution standards without looking like an idiot, try doing a little research. You will have great difficulty getting any kind of "zap" from 20V at 5A with the built-in short circuit and overload protection built into modern DC/DC converters.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Sounds nice for average or light-weight notebooks.
My current Thinkpad 520W with quad-core i7-2820QM came with a 170W adapter, and a pretty bulky, heavy one.
I don't expect any such machine become compatible. You'll have to set your priorities.
... or would TWO such USB3-cables do the job??
Could always be, because any implementation might have holes.
You could be even closer than you think - rememeber that "hacking power strip from DARPA"? It could easily generate wrong power signal that could damage devices - depending on protections they have.
Power features in Power over Ethernet (802.3af) are negotiated, but it seems that a lot of logics is on the side supplying power, not the receiving one.
Various companies make overvoltage/overcurrent protection and surge suppression mechanisms that would need to be integrated in powered device to prevent attacks.
We could sure use a lot more power over USB, and 100w sounds nice, as that's enough for laptops, but I bet it's too big of a jump.
How many USB ports does your computer have? 6? 8? Now your PSU not only needs to be big enough to handle your PC's power draw, it needs to be able to supply another 800watts in addition to it.
And USB wall-warts? They're $3 a piece because it's only a single voltage, doesn't need to have any smarts, and the power draw is so low. Once it needs to supply 100W at various voltages, it'll cost MORE than your laptop power supply, even if you're only planning on buying 5 of them to charge your cell phone in various locations... And people are going to be mighty unhappy when they buy a laptop or other device, and find it doesn't have any power supply included, so I'm not sure this will really be a gain.
And if we have a disparity between $5 low-power USB4 wall warts and $50 full-spec USB4 wall-warts, it'll be a mighty tricky situation. USB caught-on because it was cheap... Firewire supplied much more power, but wasn't nearly as cheap, and failed in the mass market.
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My 50 watt IRON LMAO This is going to be funny
Crappy Chinese components and 100w accessories.
And so what I really want to know is when do the recalls and lawsuits actually begin?
Soon you'll be walking down the street only to be approached by an unwashed person waving a USB cord in your face... "hey man... can fix me up with some juice?"
Follow the money. Selling replacement chargers is an income source. Just look at Dell laptops: they use an industry standard connector with an additional pin inside. The extra pin serves only one purpose: the laptop can tell whether or not the charger is made by Dell. You can buy chargers from other companies, and they will plug into your Dell. The laptop will use the power to run, but will not charge the battery. This behavior serves only one purpose: to guarantee that you buy your replacement from Dell.
This kind of idiotic mentality is what finally let the EU to require a standard for mobile phones. The government shouldn't have to regulate such things, but sometimes the free market fails. I can imagine this happening here as well...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
My wife connects waaaaay too many devices to a single power point by using multi-way adaptors.
Now she will be able to daisy chain various phones, laptops, portable speakers etc,.
Can you blow a USB fuse in this new standard?
No doubt this will be deluged with "that's why not" replies, but let me toss it out there: I've long thought we needed USB 4 or whatever to offer charging power at more serious wattage and also 12V. There's this whole existing eco-system of 12V appliances created by the RV/Boat industry. Quite a lot of your average household *could* soon run at more like 12V, because so much power (outside the kitchen) is just for lighting - and lighting is on the brink of going LED as they are solving the color-rendering-index problem to make it closer to sunlight.
Whole rooms of many houses might need no more than USB wall plugs...and all those lights and fans would then be "smart" appliances with network connections to tell them to turn off when power prices spike or there's been nobody in the room for 10 minutes.
I prefer Magsafe.
Thanks all the same.
My 50 watt IRON LMAO This is going to be funny Crappy Chinese components and 100w accessories. And so what I really want to know is when do the recalls and lawsuits actually begin?
I'd mod you up if I could - 100 watts is a serious amount of power. Aside from 'crappy Chinese components', what do you think will happen when some bright spark figures out a way to defeat the interlocks, and tries to pump 5 amps through a 6-foot long old-style 28 gauge USB cable? The cable alone will be dissipating several watts. Fire, much?
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Not in the slightest. You can grab one in each hand and nothing *at all* will happen. The resistance of your skin/body is too high to actually conduct any current.
.. you need all three.
E=I*R
We could have a USB 60kw standard and include electric cars
Your cellphone will be able to jump start your car in the winter
One for my Apple product and one for everything else.
I think it is judgecorp who asked: "how many people don't use their laptop to charge their phone nowadays?" I do not. I don't think anybody makes a USB charger for Samsung x4?? phones. I forgot the exact model number of my phone. Besides, I plug the travel charger into my power strip. Oh, and I do not own a laptop either. I hoped that I have answered your question. Bye now and take care.
When I'm driving I often use gps navigation while streaming internet radio. I have my phone plugged into my car charger but the battery doesn't charge. The battery slowly drains because the phone can't get enough power from the wimpy USB Wattage.
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being able to grab some juice from any friend may end the disaster that is forgetting your laptop power brick when on the road.
Eh, pretty much anywhere I work, there are people with MagSafe adaptors. So I could just get a MacBook and this would be my reality already.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
expect it to be universal over time. But currently in a single basic PC, aside of USB, you likely have PCI express bus, SATA bus, DVI and/or HDMI and/or DisplayPort bus, and maybe a Thunderbird (or Lightning Bolt if it really exists ?) in a new machine. So actually, even if USB 3.0 is probably universal enough to replace all of them for a regular user , the market do not offer a such option yet.
Waiting for USB 3.0 instead of SATA in raw hard disk and SSD connector.
Waiting for external graphic card with USB 3.0 connector and a way to make them directly drive the screen matrix (DisplayPort ?).
Waiting for a standardized internal card slot to replace the PCI express internal card.
Waiting for a standardized external card slot to replace the regretted Cardbus/PCMCIA external card.
Waiting for years entry level keyboards that integrate a USB hub and mouses without 2 meters long cable (wireless is not the best option everywhere and use battery).
Yes, there is many things that can be technically more nice, but someone need to have the willing and the power to change the product you find on the market.
Laptops and other mobile devices can't release a compliant port with this requirement. They don't draw 100W so they certainly can't deliver it. And if they can't deliver it, they can't guarantee that devices that connect to this spec will work with their ports. You'd drain the life out of your battery if they even tried.
If you aren't requiring devices to be able to put out 100W then you are creating a bad scenario where the same port can have different meanings and you are counting on the person plugging into it to know what they are doing. Counting on consumers knowing what they are doing is a bad idea.
I'd rather have a large AC-DC transformer as part of the standard home power distribution system, with both AC and DC wall plugs at every outlet.
Centralized DC would improve efficiency and cut down on "vampire power". And if a single-connector could be multi-voltage/amperage, all the better! (This would be great, if it means that most electronics would standardize on either 5V or 12V, but with voltage-switching automatic.)
Any laptop power cable "standard" should use magnets.
Yes, we would all love to pay through the nose for larger gauge copper wires. And rooms with no suitable outlets for vacuum cleaners.
With the disclaimer that things change if you stick probes INTO your body, yes, you can touch both terminals of a fully charged car battery all day long without danger, even though it has enough wattage potential to kill you a couple thousand times, give you nasty burns, etc...
It's the whole A=V/R formula. 12V divided by the kiloohm your body typically presents, even when wet, isn't dangerous. 110-220VAC will shock you, but generally not lethally. At 600V you start needing to pay SERIOUS attention. Above that you're looking at specialized safety equipment.
I don't read AC A human right
having skimmed the spec defeating the cable type interlocks is trivial, just use a short "USB power delivery cable" and a coupler (yes couples aren't supposed to exist but we all know that they do). However there is also supposed to be protection that shuts down the power delivery system if excessive volt drop is detected.
Will be interesting to see how this pans out, still I don't think fire is a likely outcome, far more likely is that the cable will melt and either short the power feed (not so bad) or short the power wire to the data wire (that could do some serious damage).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register