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USB 3.0 100W Power Standard Seeks To End Proprietary Chargers
judgecorp writes "The USB 3.0 Promoter Group has published a Power Delivery standard which will deliver up to 100W. The specification (press release with link to full details) includes new bi-directional — and backward compatible — USB cables, and has been proposed as the new connector between mains adapters and laptops, eliminating e-waste by standardizing a proprietary component."
At home, only having to run one cable to the wall might be nice, and being able to grab some juice from any friend may end the disaster that is forgetting your laptop power brick when on the road. And imagine only having to pack a single power hub instead of three or four redundant transformers (how many people don't use their laptop to charge their phone nowadays?).
http://xkcd.com/927/
From he article: The high power charging will require special, electronically detectable and very clever “USB Power Delivery” certified cables, which will be backwards compatible with all types of USB 2.0 and 3.0. So yeah, if resistance > X, its not a proper cable and you can't use it for > 4.5W (standard USB3 charging power)
A question remains: will companies like Apple, who have used proprietary chargers and connectors for years despite the prevalence of the USB standard, adopt the new cable?
I can't imagine they will, even with their recent EPEAT flip-flop. What I can't figure out is if they are just trying to keep their products distinct or they don't like it when someone else has a really good idea or what. They've already chosen Thunderbolt as their new adapter of choice, and while they'll never use that for the iFamily of products (since so many people won't/can't buy machines with that connectivity), I can't imagine they'll cave to the USB standard now. I do hope I'm wrong though.
On a side note, does anyone know how many thunderbolt devices are actually available for consumer purchase at this point? Are any of them reasonably priced?
Ha, my current laptop runs at 20V @ 11A so looks like I won't be running something like this beast on it.
Does anyone else think this could be a future attack vector? If use existing terminology, the charger is the host and the laptop is the client, what negotiation takes place before more advanced signalling occurs other than something to negotiate what power is required? Basically, what's to stop an attacker putting some sort of malware on the charger, either something to exploit a driver or an actual executable payload on mass media?
That is just silly talk, my implementation will require at least 1.21 gigawatts
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
This would save me from carrying extra junk about and having to find a very specific type of junk when it fails. This is a brilliant idea.
Everyone seems to be bashing this idea, I've no idea why.
I charge my phone via my desktop, and sometimes my laptop only when the latter itself is plugged in, not while it's operating on battery.
But I agree w/ you. These cables ain't designed for 1kW at all, and what's more, what are they going to do about the fact that all countries have different voltage and frequency standards - 110V/50Hz in the US, 220V/60Hz in EU and so on? What's wrong w/ using current cables?
And speaking of which, we've already seen the mini-USB connector get deprecated. Can the USB committee resist the temptation to introduce a new connector standard every few years, which renders old connectors or cables incompatible? And this in a standard that now supports 4 operating speeds - low speed, full speed, hi-speed and now 'super-speed' (which moron thought up that last name?)
You won't get an electric shock touching a conductor at 20V DC, so long as you don't put it on your mouth. The *power* output capability is irrelevant in its ability to shock you.
Ydco co
Great a proprietary cable made for 20c in China with a Monster label slapped on and sold for "naddy-nah-naddy-nah" with a small IC to prevent others making them.
What exactly do they hope to run at 20v DC that will draw 5A? I have a bench power supply that can just about manage that, the only thing i need more than ~15V for is bending the lead of a pencil
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Actually an really environmental idea would be to have standard batteries and power supplys for laptops. Then all laptops would come without the AC/DC converter and, you could just reuse the one from your old one. It usually still works and could probably serve the new machine from a technical standpoint. You could have two variants, 50W and 100W, for different categories of laptops.
They aren't designed for 1kW or line voltage, they're designed for 100W, which according to the article will be delivered at a maximum of 5A, 20V, charging in this mode will require a cable rated for this amount of current.
Are you living in the 90's? Switcher power supplies nowadays accept a wide range of current inputs at a wide range of frequencies, this isn't a serious issue anymore.
Mini-usb had its problems that manufacturers complained about regarding durability and size, so they listened to the complaints and offered their improved version in micro-usb. Now manufacturers are saying they want to use the usb to charge devices and they need more power, and have been running more current than standard through the usb connectors. So in response they're improving the interface to allow more current for faster charging. I feel that the current pace in which they roll out new standards isn't terrible.
Offering the different speeds allows for great fowards and backwards compatibility. When you connect two devices they can communicate as fast as the slowest one permits, allowing you to use older hardware with newer hardware.
Ridiculous Speed. Next one will be Ludicrous Speed. Don't you know anything?
Don't forget plaid. I can't wait til we get USBs with plaid speeds!
You accidentally swapped amperes and voltages.
Amperes and volts, surely? Else current and voltage.
It's thus. At least the 4 different devices our family has bought in the last two years have all come with a USB-microUSB cable and a wall charger with no cord but a USB socket.
All the laptops I have seen in the past few years operate at 19VDC. That's from my dinky Aspire One to my cousin's hefty gaming laptop. 100W won't suffice for the gaming laptop, but that just means he couldn't simultaneously play Skyrim and charge the battery. It should at least be enough to operate the computer itself.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Also a digital cable probably won't deliver much in the way of current unless it has negotiated with the load.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Not unless you're somehow abnormally conductive. 12V DC is undetectable in normal circumstances. Standards vary, but the low voltage limit for dry locations is usually between 48 and 60V DC.
Do you have 9V batteries? Put a fingertip across one - nothing. Hook the + of one into the - of another. Touch the two remaining terminals with fingers on the same hand. Nothing.
Your tongue, however, is extremely good at detecting current flow. A 9V battery on the tip of the tongue is not comfortable.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Incorrect, there is no IC in the cable. I skimmed over the spec (which is free to download). There are just extra pins deeper in the connector to ID the new cables.
Follow the money. Selling replacement chargers is an income source. Just look at Dell laptops: they use an industry standard connector with an additional pin inside. The extra pin serves only one purpose: the laptop can tell whether or not the charger is made by Dell. You can buy chargers from other companies, and they will plug into your Dell. The laptop will use the power to run, but will not charge the battery. This behavior serves only one purpose: to guarantee that you buy your replacement from Dell.
This kind of idiotic mentality is what finally let the EU to require a standard for mobile phones. The government shouldn't have to regulate such things, but sometimes the free market fails. I can imagine this happening here as well...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
I think you are worrying uncessacerally. The spec is freely downloadable at http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_30_spec_071012.zip (USB_PD_V1_0-20120705-final.pdf within the zip). The A ends of the cables indicate thier type passively (micro connectors use an ID resistor while full-size connectors use mechanical differences).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
It doesn't charge at the same speed. My wall-adapter is rated 1A (usb standard is 500mW afaik) and the phone really charges about twice the speed when connected to it compared to charging from a computer/laptop.
It's not the voltage, it's the current.
This if oft-quoted but highly misleading.
It is true that current through the body and time for which that current is delivered are what generaly determine how much damage is done.
However it really makes no difference whether the short circuit current of your 12V source is 1A or 1000A, because 12V isn't nearly enough to push that much current through your skin under normal conditions.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Laptops and other mobile devices can't release a compliant port with this requirement. They don't draw 100W so they certainly can't deliver it. And if they can't deliver it, they can't guarantee that devices that connect to this spec will work with their ports. You'd drain the life out of your battery if they even tried.
If you aren't requiring devices to be able to put out 100W then you are creating a bad scenario where the same port can have different meanings and you are counting on the person plugging into it to know what they are doing. Counting on consumers knowing what they are doing is a bad idea.